Ramesses II (Industrious-Deity series)

I can remember like it was yesterday, when peopled used to tell me to stop playing Ramesses because his traits can't win on Monarch. :mischief: I think we've come a long way since then, though I have to confess spiritual has got nerfed multiple ways in BtS so I haven't really been too eager now to use him lately. Though I guess it's time to dust him off and still give him a chance. But then again, his starting techs, and UB is very non-archipelago friendly so.... this may be interesting (or quite boring!).


http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/2/13/obsolete/f_splashm_d0da6b1.jpg

:: Industrious-Deity Series Archive ::

Augustus (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=308900)
Roosevelt (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=309341)
Ramesses II (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=310387)
Louis XIV (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=311640)
Qin (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7811640#post7811640)
H. Capac (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=312862)
Stalin (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8215668)
Bismark (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=327017)
De Gaulle (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8343964)

Give us a pic of the start so we can engage in futile debates!

Do you think spiritual has been nerfed? I think it got better, mostly because of the risk of slave revolts.

Give us a pic of the start so we can engage in futile debates!

Ohh, alright.

Do you think spiritual has been nerfed? I think it got better, mostly because of the risk of slave revolts.

I've noticed some other people making these wrong conclusions. So far it seems to be those who either don't play Spritual, or always played it very poorly.

This is a severe nerfing to Spiritual. And I don't see where this nonsense from slave revolts makes it immune. Spiritual suffers just as much a penalty as any other leader. And you are going to be stuck in slavery for the same amount of turns as the other guy...

Now look what happens with the golden ages. Everyone gets a free spiritual trait.. .but you? You get... NOTHING. No compensation.. zip.. nadda... nothing.

And... do I really need to state the obvious.. but..

CRISTO REDENTOR !!!

FREE SPIRITUAL TRAIT! God damn.... and what do the Spiritual Leaders get? A free ORG trait wonder.... no?

No! Nothing! Zip.. no compensation whatsoever.. nadda.

Again, firaxis' real lack of testing (as always) seems to blame. The first nerf should have put a reduction on 1 to 2 turns for civic swapping to compensate. The second should have put another 1 to 2 turns slice on civic switching. But no... Firaxis dropped the ball on this again... they didn't think it through. So spiritual is having an extra 2 to 4 turns extra time to wait for civic switches than anyone else. THIS IS NOT AN ADVANTAGE!!

So now what was the top trait amoungst deity players pre BtS has now shifted quite a lot down the list. Its day as #1 is gone now... I almost wonder if Firaxis did this on purpose after looking at the top caliber games that were being carried out and figured (ohhh well Spiritual is too broken, it wins on deity too much).

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Turn 0
http://img18.picoodle.com/img/img18/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn0m_72d8d31.jpg
For some reason, the last patch of BtS keeps turning off Bubbles on start-up. Anyway, our third (deity) leader attempt finally ends up with stone in a much quicker-to-access manner. Actually, if you include all the times in the Immortal threads, it starts to become noticeable it’s getting hard to get this resource close by in Archipelago maps. However, we’ve finally got it, so I’m thinking I may attempt to go for the Mids in a classic SSE/WE.

We’ll have to scout the warrior around a bit more, and decide if I want to go for the mids right away in the capital, or try to gambit with a settler to work on the mids, while the capital works on other things. If I’m lucky, I can get both the G-Lighthouse and Mids. The thing is, if I mix the wonders amoung more than one city then I will be nerfing some of the benefits of having everything in the capital.
And.. if I’m not lucky, I will get a bunch of gold, so it’s a win-win situation here no matter what... I can’t lose.

DID YOU JUST HEAR WHAT I SAID?! (Gambler John Patrick imitation)...

I CAN’T LOSE... I CAN NOT LOSE!

Ohh, alright.

I've noticed some other people making these wrong conclusions. So far it seems to be those who either don't play Spritual, or always played it very poorly.

This is a severe nerfing to Spiritual. And I don't see where this nonsense from slave revolts makes it immune. Spiritual suffers just as much a penalty as any other leader. And you are going to be stuck in slavery for the same amount of turns as the other guy...

Now look what happens with the golden ages. Everyone gets a free spiritual trait.. .but you? You get... NOTHING. No compensation.. zip.. nadda... nothing.

And... do I really need to state the obvious.. but..

CRISTO REDENTOR !!!

FREE SPIRITUAL TRAIT! God damn.... and what do the Spiritual Leaders get? A free ORG trait wonder.... no?


I just meant that a spiritual leader can switch in and out of slavery as needed, to reduce the risk of a revolt. Whereas nonspiritual you basically just have to lump it.

Agreed that the golden ages hurt it a lot though. Cristo redento hardly matters... how often are you switching after that thing is built?

cristo is key on marathon and spi here has a bonus(dbl prod. speed) - you can switch each turn instead of every 5 turns which is great. The most abusive part being - have a big neighbor with whom you have good relations and who directly competes with you in space: 1 turn of barbarism, tribalism, etc., switch him to those civics, switch back next turn. Obviously he's gonna switch back to more decent civics, but that'll cost him 5-6 turns of anarchy at that size of the empire. So instead of a kamikaze attack to raze his capitol since he researched and launched faster then you or sabotage his parts - you have a very cheap and safe method(it's cheaper to sabotage a sec. bureau and pay for 5 civic switches then sabotage a sec. bureau and a part of his ship - significantly cheaper).

That being said, I think it's still the best trait in bts too - maybe not so hot anymore on normal speed, but on marathon where you have the same 5 turns limitation for switches(you can potentially do 3x switches in a game, and it'd be wise to abuse the feature) and GAs are comparatively shorter... still best trait, hands down.

I just meant that a spiritual leader can switch in and out of slavery as needed, to reduce the risk of a revolt. Whereas nonspiritual you basically just have to lump it.


No that is false arguing. If you switch out of slavery, you have to wait another full 5 turns (like everyone else) before you can switch back in again. And if you are in slavery, it's because you want/need to whip your cities and keep whipping. Now you are going to miss your optimum whips because of trying to evade a revolt chance? :crazyeye:


Agreed that the golden ages hurt it a lot though. Cristo redento hardly matters... how often are you switching after that thing is built?
Cristo hardly matters? You HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!
I don't think we are playing the same game here... or someone is missing some obvious fundamentals of it.

:eek::eek::eek:

If I am gearing up for a late-stage war, the optimum switch is EVERY turn!

cristo is key on marathon and spi here has a bonus(dbl prod. speed) - you can switch each turn instead of every 5 turns which is great. The most abusive part being - have a big neighbor with whom you have good relations and who directly competes with you in space: 1 turn of barbarism, tribalism, etc., switch him to those civics, switch back next turn. Obviously he's gonna switch back to more decent civics, but that'll cost him 5-6 turns of anarchy at that size of the empire. So instead of a kamikaze attack to raze his capitol since he researched and launched faster then you or sabotage his parts - you have a very cheap and safe method(it's cheaper to sabotage a sec. bureau and pay for 5 civic switches then sabotage a sec. bureau and a part of his ship - significantly cheaper).

That being said, I think it's still the best trait in bts too - maybe not so hot anymore on normal speed, but on marathon where you have the same 5 turns limitation for switches(you can potentially do 3x switches in a game, and it'd be wise to abuse the feature) and GAs are comparatively shorter... still best trait, hands down.

I remember trying to exploit this way back when Cristo was first introduced. Unfortunately it DOES NOT WORK. The AI gets immunity to anarchy from you, and I think this was intentionally done to prevent this exact game-exploit. Unfortunately they don't tell you about it, so you have to learn the hard way, like everything else with Firaxis.

I believe, you at least used to get the first turn resulting in anarchy from them, but then the immunity kicks in. After that, you can flip them for over a thousand years, and they just get free-civic switches at your expense.

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Turns 0-10
No screen shot because there really wasn’t anything worth noting. That area to my East-South is just a dead-end cut off by water, so no room there. I then began to move my warrior toward the West to see what was down that wing..
-ni

Turns 10-20
http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn20m_f4cc551.jpg
Got one workboat out, now time for another... and then possibly a third. Because of the location of the clam to the south, it looks like putting a settler near the stone may be a feasible idea. AFTER I get TGL up and operational. I see a lot of amateurs go settler first.. that’s great WHEN IT WORKS, if it doesn’t they just re-roll. But we are playing straight-up for our life here...not some HoF gambit for POINTS.

Turns 20-30
http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn30m_9df5c5e.jpg
I have been getting hit by quite a few animals at this point, but in good shape due to proper terrain moves. Anyhow, we timed our hut just perfectly here. And we popped.... MINING! Ahah. I’d be so pissed if I was forced to pop it on my last research turn on mining, (that always happens).

Turns 30-40
http://img18.picoodle.com/img/img18/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn40m_541f673.jpg
As you can see, I indeed did decide to go after 3 workboats first.
And so far, I started scouting down the West-South. It seems I haven’t met any enemy scouts or workboats yet. I may be isolated here. That can really be a problem if I need Astronomy, to link up with everyone. It means, this whole TGL plan may be practically for nothing. Perhaps I should just abort it here... but I had already researched techs for it...

Turns 40-50
http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn50m_34e4bac.jpg
Well, I decided to just pray, and hope for the best that I could make contact without Astronomy. So I continued with the plan for TGL. Besides, even if I can’t use it to its fullest at least I can prevent another AI from being able to.
This is from turn #51 but since I don’t have any other shot, this will have to do for now.
As you can see, deity barbs always try to cause problems with wonderbuilding. They just refuse to give you a frieken break unless you get the Great Wall. But then, you’ll end up missing out on the Lighthouse anyway. So what can you do...

Turns 50-60
http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn60m_6e5d067.jpg
Well, a little bit of a delay compared to our normal speeds, but turn #55 we put the last hammer into our first wonder. Slavery helped shaved off 3 turns here, so I was grateful for the food. Of course, I wasn’t so greatful to the barbs who tried to make sure my wonder building was delayed as much as possible. I guess things could be worse.

But they will eventually come to a hault, since I was able to get horses. I actually felt pretty sure horses (or metal) would pop in that spot, and it’s part of the reason I didn’t want to risk moving my capital on that tile. The terrain generation in this game is just getting too predictable/obvious.

It may look rather silly working un-improved tiles, but like I said... barbarian problems.

Turns 60-70
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn70m_60c7c66.jpg
Here we are, Pyramid city. I decided it was best to get Mids in a sister-city, since the capital had so much food around it would be better to put it to use for other smaller builds.

As for Pyramid city, I COULD have settled on the stone hill, but after doing a lot of thinking and judging, I decided to settle here, and in fact I even had the clams hooked up on the same turn (God I’m good). This lets me work 3 decent capital tiles from that city, while the capital works the food farther back.

Of course, this is from turn #71, because I have no shots from the 60-70 turnset again.

Turns 70-80
http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn80m_2530031.jpg
My capital is showing the ill effects of whipping, but so be it. And here I Am trying to get another settler out. I already have a UU out guarding the West, which is rather busy running down those pesky barbs who keep trying to run into my capital. The warrior barbs have already turned into archers, and soon they will turn into hordes of axes coming. But my UU shall prevail. Though I will have to plan on building quite a bit more very soon.
Notes:
On turn #76 I got a notice ToA was built far away... If only I had marble I could have gotten that!

Turns 80-90
http://img18.picoodle.com/img/img18/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn90m_623f1a8.jpg
I wasn’t sure what to call this city, so I named it Wine-Coast. Now my front got a little stronger, and my chariot(s) can heal a lot more quicker. Soon we’ll be trying to push it farther into barb-land. Barb-land, because we still haven’t met anyone else yet. Looks like we just won’t be doing any power-trades for quite some time here.

Turns 90-100
http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/3/2/14/obsolete/f_turn100m_70ea617.jpg
Well, well, well. 475BC and no one took the Pyramids yet, looks like it is ours. But just to be sure, I’m going to whip it to completion here. Looks like those critics were wrong about not being able to nab mids on deity, (we even got another settler out AND built another world wonder at the same time!).
Of course the critics who say it is possible, will tell you it will lead to your death. Hmm. Now time to see if THOSE critics are also full of sh!t. We shall see...........

In other notes, looks like someone just completed Temple-of-Solomon. Who that is, is a good question. I still don’t know who the other 6 players are. And without my foreign trade routes, my lighthouse really isn’t doing much. I also had to self-research math and everything else now, so my teching is really not going that well, but Rep will at least help to dampen some of the bad luck in that department.

any chance of the initial save?

Have you set an exploration galley/workboat around your island to be 100% sure you're isolated? You could be delaying potential trade routes and tech trades if you haven't yet...

No, if the AI was anywhere near (even far away) they would have long by now had workboats greet us. Believe me, with their insane bonuses they have workboats headed your way before you can even THINK about getting your first hammer/axe/shield into one...

Anyhow, I remember DanF mentioning Era bonuses kick in around 2000 BC, and top off to about 30% discount in the Future era. So today I ran a worldBuilder test to verify the late-stage part. It seems their era bonus is much more powerful than that even with the latest patch of BtS. I am showing all projects getting a 58% discount. They only have to put in 42% of the original cost!

Pretty insane..

I have things to do now, but later may test the BC era bonuses, I don't doubt that may be shocking too...

No, if the AI was anywhere near (even far away) they would have long by now had workboats greet us. Believe me, with their insane bonuses they have workboats headed your way before you can even THINK about getting your first hammer/axe/shield into one...

Anyhow, I remember DanF mentioning Era bonuses kick in around 2000 BC, and top off to about 30% discount in the Future era. So today I ran a worldBuilder test to verify the late-stage part. It seems their era bonus is much more powerful than that even with the latest patch of BtS. I am showing all projects getting a 58% discount. They only have to put in 42% of the original cost!

Pretty insane..

I have things to do now, but later may test the BC era bonuses, I don't doubt that may be shocking too...I do not find this shocling at all, considering how poor the AI specialises his cities. In order to stay competitive he either has to build more smart like a human - which is not going to happen - or heneeds a discount in order to compete. I cannot think of any other way to make the AI stay up given the mechaics of the game.

Giving the AI a discount makes sure that he can build fast, but then again so can a good human player. The AI is not so fast though that winning becomes absolutely impossible. I'd say Firaxis tweaked the AI to just about right.

Besides, you won the Roman game just fine while facing one setback after the other so you of all people should not complain about AI bonusses. None of them make up for amazing-player bonusses. ;)

Would've been more fun if the AI relied less on raw power bonusses and more on a not-being-stupid bonus though. Although I'm no expert on programming, I feel the algorithms used for some AI processes aren't good enough. I feel firaxis figured to solve all their AI trouble by just giving them raw power, instead of giving them actual AI.
The cityplacement algorithm isn't great (settling 1 tile offshore), the city specialisation seems to be wonky (building national wonders in strange places). I don't know whether programming the AI to think ahead more would just require to much CPU power, or firaxis felt the raw power bonus would suffice.

Well, well, well. 475BC and no one took the Pyramids yet, looks like it is ours. But just to be sure, I’m going to whip it to completion here. Looks like those critics were wrong about not being able to nab mids on deity, (we even got another settler out AND built another world wonder at the same time!).
Of course the critics who say it is possible, will tell you it will lead to your death. Hmm. Now time to see if THOSE critics are also full of sh!t. We shall see...........

On archi maps you can usually do whatever you like for quite a while. A LOT less emphasis on rexing and blocking.
Although scouting out the available landmasses is still important, I think you're missing a significant opportunity by not having scouted the perimeter of your land, could easily pick up sight of AI borders in the fog in order to help anticipate culture bridges.
With room for 7-8 cities on your main landmass and at least beaver city to the north you're in pretty good shape either way.
I guess you could be leaving it fogged in order to let the barbs drop cities in peace, but I'm not convinced that's an excuse for being in the dark about possible culture brides to potential trading partners.
It's pretty standard for landmass like yours to be seperated by just a single strip of ocean that can be bridged by culture long before astronomy comes online.
At the speed deity AI rexes it wont take long for them to do their part and get some culture into their coastline tiles.


The snarky (sarcastic, mean spirited) commentary isn't really helping much. It's an unpleasant distraction from what is otherwise a great read.
I look forward to more pics.

The AI gets immunity to anarchy from you, and I think this was intentionally done to prevent this exact game-exploit. Unfortunately they don't tell you about it, so you have to learn the hard way, like everything else with Firaxis.

they're immune to your switching, true; but you switch them to barbarism, tribalism and the like, so they'll have to switch back(till then they'll usually research ~20-25% slower). Now, when they switch back, they have to spend the turns in anarchy - and since they have to switch all 5 civics...

To be fair, early on you're not going to need to whip every 10 turns so the spiritual trait got a little buff there, it might not be enough to make up for the nerfs though.

About Cristo Redentor, well you seem to play for space or UN diplo in almost every game obsolete, the wonder comes in the late era after all, not all games last that long, but I agree it's powerful. :)

Don't forget that the spiritual trait is like a resource for the Cristo Redentor wonder (+100% production) so it costs less hammers to make up for the smaller reward, and it makes it very easy to deny it from a non-spiritual opponent.

In fact with his trait combo, Ramesses can build cristo faster than any other leader in the game! :lol: (+150% on traits alone)

they're immune to your switching, true; but you switch them to barbarism, tribalism and the like, so they'll have to switch back(till then they'll usually research ~20-25% slower). Now, when they switch back, they have to spend the turns in anarchy - and since they have to switch all 5 civics...

Well, before I go to bed tonight I'll load up an older game and do some world-builder testing on this.

By the way, after testing the BC era bonuses, at least they do start off at 0% instead of the 5% right off from the bat. But I don't know how it ramps up so fast to 58% in the future era.

IIRC, 60/100 (normal deity bonus) * 70/100 (future era discount) = 42% of your cost in the future era.

No that is false arguing. If you switch out of slavery, you have to wait another full 5 turns (like everyone else) before you can switch back in again. And if you are in slavery, it's because you want/need to whip your cities and keep whipping. Now you are going to miss your optimum whips because of trying to evade a revolt chance? :crazyeye:

No you time it for when you are not planning on whipping for 5 turns. You're only whipping a city once every 10 turns, right?




Cristo hardly matters? You HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!
I don't think we are playing the same game here... or someone is missing some obvious fundamentals of it.

:eek::eek::eek:

If I am gearing up for a late-stage war, the optimum switch is EVERY turn!

Well first of all have to point out the obvious... if you want to switch every turn, Cristo lets you do that. But why do you want to do that? What civics do you have to switch in the late game?

IIRC, 60/100 (normal deity bonus) * 70/100 (future era discount) = 42% of your cost in the future era.

Yamps, thanks a lot for the numbers! BTW, I think I remember seeing this elsewhere once upon a time. However, the general consensus I have seen is that the NORMAL DEITY BONUS is not allowed to count for PROJECTS, but now it seems at least in the last version of BtS it definitely does count toward projects. :mad:



Well first of all have to point out the obvious... if you want to switch every turn, Cristo lets you do that. But why do you want to do that? What civics do you have to switch in the late game?

Well, you would definitely want to capitalize on basics like: PS--> US -->PS
going every turn. As well as hot-swapping your other appropriate civics to match them. I can't tell you the other civics because they will be situation-dependent, only YOU can see which of the others is optimal.



=====================================

Anyway, I did some spy --> civic swapping, and the test has turned out to be a failure. First of all I started to put non-spiritual leaders into Despotism, Paganism, etc. The kicker is, non of them bother to switch back! I kept hitting the end turn thing for 30 turns, and they wouldn't damn switch out! ???? This was in the Future era even.

I thought maybe the AI does a check to see if it's worth an anarchy switch, so then I decided to do the test on a spiritual leader. Turns out, the spiritual leaders also DON'T switch out, despite it's free. They stay in all first-level civics!

Something is definitely broken again....

If someone else wants to world-builder and test this, go ahead. I'll try some more probing today and see what happens. Maybe my game went down a certain path where civics with the AI just got all bugged up?

:confused:

If I took Zara, and converted him in just ONE civic, like Representation, only THEN did he bother to revolt, despite Representation was actually a civic that was very good for him!! :lol:

However, the general consensus I have seen is that the NORMAL DEITY BONUS is not allowed to count for PROJECTS, but now it seems at least in the last version of BtS it definitely does count toward projects. :mad:
Production costs of team projects (Apollo, SS parts) are also reduced according to difficulty (iAICreatePercent = 60 for deity), so only the costs of world projects (Internet, Manhattan) will solely be modified by the era discount (iAIWorldCreatePercent = 100).

Hmm, well that leaves the last question, what's the case for NATIONAL Wonders.

Anyhow, after more testing, it seems that due to the crazy sporadic nature of the AI taking its time to civic switch back, there most likely has to be some random variables that are thrown in there somewhere. It's just not making sense for me.

Also, even with a large empire, and forcing them to switch FIVE different civics in one shot, the deity AIs only so far got a max of 2 turns anarchy. Grrrrr. This type of tactic just doesn't seem to make much sense for a high level game. Too much AI bonuses.

Also, I even took an AI who had SoD stacks of a hundred units a piece, and put him into pacifism. And they don't even have to pay a single cent! Rediculous... Pacifism is a free civic to them.

The same rules apply for Wonders (National Wonders =^= Team Projects -> -40% :hammers: cost for deity AI).

Pacifism is not exactly a free civic for deity AIs but unit costs are indeed laughable for them. I checked Huayna's numbers (left) after switching him to Pacifism in the 1575 AD save of an old Gliese Zara deity game and compared them to what a human had to pay playing at deity in his situation (right).

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm105/DanF5771/DeityUnitCost.png

Huayna has 270 units (242 military) and gets a ~78% discount on his unit costs plus some more free units than the human player...
His modifiers are:

50% for playing at Noble
60% for being an AI in a deity game
75% for deity AI in modern era (-25%)

Those multiply to 0.5*0.6*0.75 ~ 0.22.

But why are you complaining - you haven't lost a single game :lol:.

BTW there are a couple of timers dealing with civic switches. The AI will not even think about switching during a period of 10/25 turns after the last voluntary switch (not forced by spies). 10 turns for spiritual AIs (and maybe non-spirituals with Christo or last switch during GA; 2*MIN_REVOLUTION_TURNS); 25 turns for non-spiritual AIs (CIVIC_CHANGE_DELAY, hard coded in CvPlayerAI.cpp).

Oh boy, that is just terrible coding on their part again. So if a human attacks an AI five turns after they did a voluntary switch, they WILL NOT even bother changing into Nationhood or slavery DESPITE THEY ARE SPIRITUAL AND NEED IT NOW!

Just.... absolutely terrible!

As for checking how much a Civ is paying, I guess normally that's supposed to be not so easy to find for the player? Though if you know the mechanics I guess it's pretty straight forward. What I did was check the trade screen to see how much their excess gold altered. At first I thought the no-change had to be a glitch, and would update the next turn, but nope.. still no change. Hundreds of units and they are running pacifism without paying a cent...

Any human would have instantly gone into the red and lost 90% of the army before the next turn...

Anyhow, time to make some good stuff to eat, and then I'll try to put together the next batch of turnsets....

well, in my tests, they usually switched back in 30-40 turns. Now, 30-40 turns on marathon is one thing, on normal is... quite another :p

Why I like cristo is for denying them fs and us(which are quite powerful given their type of econ.). I just change all 4 civics so they spend more turns when they want to switch back - if they don't, they're still in trouble(if they have corps, I leave them in environmentalism - afterall, even the starting one is better :p ).

Without looking at the code, just playing, they seem to have some threshold which has to be passed in order to switch civics. The most obvious point is merc. - on marathon, they'll end up in merc. for a while all the time; now, trying to play on normal a few games, sometimes they go directly fm(obviously there are fewer turns on normal and sometimes they don't seem to pass those checks in the few turns when only merc. is available). It's probably a check on the "urgency" of their current builds and if they can afford the anarchy turns - what's weird is that this is obviously also calculated for spiritual leaders, which... don't exactly have anarchy.

and regarding ai mil. upkeep:

had shaka with one last city, all swamped with mayan culture(obviously, with pop. 1). Basically, he had the city center and nothing else. ~60 units(his sod was blocked there the whole war since pacal was pissed with him and didn't have ob - very convenient as far as I was concerned :p ); didn't give myself gspies in wb so I don't know exactly what he had to pay, just saved and did about 30 end turns - he didn't have to disband 1 unit, despite his income was exactly 9gpt(city tile + palace)... so... what they pay for upkeep seems kinda nil.

P.S - didn't see this one:

BTW there are a couple of timers dealing with civic switches. The AI will not even think about switching during a period of 10/25 turns after the last voluntary switch (not forced by spies).10 turns for spiritual AIs (and maybe non-spirituals with Christo or last switch during GA; 2*MIN_REVOLUTION_TURNS);

now that's abit poorly code, to put it mildly...

Seeing all of these coding errors, you would think Firaxis would fix this in the next patch. Or at least CivV(if it comes out)

Turns 100-110
http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn110m_cc8056b.jpg
In 300 BC we got a notice the HG went up. I wonder who else found stone....
Anyhow, around the same time we found our little Gold-City. I don’t really care about the commerce from the gold, I just want the happiness.
The next turn, we got our GM, and settled him in the capital.
On Turn #106 the Kashi V. was built somewhere...
And on turn #108 the Parthenon went up. Shame we didn’t have any marble...
And at turn #109 we popped a hut, (I had a bunch of chariots expecting barbs to spring). Instead... we popped Calendar! I don’t remember this happening since.... my early days on Vanilla. Brings back nostalgic memories...

Turns 110-120
http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn120m_5581c65.jpg
Some more good fortune after timing our hut-pops just right. This one here ended up getting us Iron Working. I had an extra chariot ready because I was expecting a horde of barbs to pop up from that. Anyhow, our luck ran out after this and no other huts popped techs, but that’s the great thing you can exploit in isolation.
By the way, I had a settler with the other chariot and used him to settle in place there, I called it Tundra-City for obvious reasons. In hindsight I should have just settled him and let the culture safely pop the hut. So I don’t know what I was thinking...
We also FINALLY met.... Zara.

Turns 120-130
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn130m_2f11cb2.jpg
We soon met Hannibal. Actually these guys met us more likely...
And then... Monte the crazy backstabber. Oh boy.... I may have no choice but to get dragged into a war here...
And unfortunately, Zara ended up proving that the world was round, and we had only just started researching CoL!!!
Some more news... My chariots never ended up getting a break from barb-patrol issues. Just constant barb after barb battles even still. And to make things really painful, now the barbs were coming with spearmen instead of axemen, just to screw over the Egyptian UU!
I also ended up founding 2 cities in my southern flank. Fish-Corner City, and Iron City below that. And looks like there is a barb city near there, where I may be able to capture it in time.

Turns 130-140
http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn140m_f4504f8.jpg
Popped another GM, which was settled obviously. Somehow, I missed my high odds for a scientist to get my academy.
And here was our only city for this turn-set. I didn’t know what to call it, so I used Lonely Cow City. At least it fills in more of my lands.

Turns 140-150
http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn150m_4c690db.jpg
Sistine Chapel was completed somewhere, and Islam was founded. These Ai’s are pretty dumb...
Also it seems Monte was fighting with Zara. But it’s all ok, they made peace now.
Then, we met Cyrus. Also, Monte went weehorn again basically right after making peace. I could be in trouble here...
Anyhow, for the time being I founded Marble City. Unfortunately we are way past the BC era here, so it isn’t going to be that precious now.
By the way, I didn’t know there was a crab so close to the marble or I would have changed my positioning of the city. But at least I do get the horses in the ring this way.

Turns 150-160
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn160m_eca0e82.jpg
And here is yet another city for us. Thanks to the local barb community. However, good thing I had sent more units to attack it than would be expected as I seem to have been rolling not so hot in these battles. But... we did prevail when the dust settled. Now, to rename the town as Banana-City.

On my last turn for this set, Cyrus came out and DEMANDED I convert to Buddhism. Well, I had been worrying and debating on which religion to switch to, if I switch at all, and all the other problems I would end up with. But hell, Cyrus just made it a hell of a lot easier now!

Well, Monte is obviously going to attack me at some point now for sure. But since he is already weehorn, if he does attack soon, it is most likely he had me already targeted next in line anyway.
Oh, and just when the war threats couldn’t get any worse.... Khmer shows up!
But...
PHEWWWW! Cyrus is willing to make a defense pact with me already. BEFORE 1000 AD!? Hell... SOMEONE looks like they were beelining some heavy military techs...

Turns 160-170
http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn170m_0c03c8a.jpg
We won liberalism and chose our tech on turn #168. And I played the liberalism run pretty bad. After popping more than my fair share of GMs and not scientists, I was pretty worried about my lacking academy. Also, I had been startled before this when my very early run at the Great Library disappeared when I was chopping away on it. By the time I finally got my first scientist, I had even forgot for a moment I had built the Mids, and hence was running Rep, which made me keep it in reserve (instead of academy) and it wasn’t until I popped the next scientist I realized my mistake. So I just decided the hell with it, and use the 2 to bulb education otherwise it would look even more foolish getting the academy THEN after all that other time had passed. What a waste of beakers though.

Even more sad, is that Zara the tech-master tends to go after Physics and unlock electricity before he even thinks about putting a single beaker into education. I really wasn’t in any big danger of losing the lib-race. So I did not play this one optimally. I really should start putting sticky-notes on my screen before I act.
Note: With 4 turns left on the lib run, I popped another hut. Sadly no tech, but there was a remote chance I could have actually popped liberalism here (in a deity game!) That would have been one for the books...

Turns 170-180
http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn180m_e7abb94.jpg
I am so desperate for copper. Forget about the stupid axemen, without copper I can’t get my SoL, I can’t get my Internet, I cant get.....
So looks like I have no choice here, but to found my most crappiest of all cities, COPPER-JUNK City. I also should call this GIFTER-CITY, because after the internet (if I don’t get another source of copper) I may end up just gifting this to stupid Hannibal who will think... ZOMG, a free city! Let me give you +4 relations bud for being soooo special and nice to me!
What a joke... ice.. tundra... no food what-soever... And not even a god damn tile with a hammer on it! LOL.
And shortly after that, Toku greets us. Ohhh geeze. Well... thank god I got my defense pact with Cyrus.

But...... Monte the IDIOT is not just weehorn, but ended up putting me as his worst enemy now. Hmm, this may have something to do with refusing to give him civil service a while back. Well, let’s see. Do I want Monte to backstab me with axemen, or backstab me with macemen. Hmmmmmmmmmm...... tuff... decision!

Anyone can help me out here on which is the most optimal choice? Give in or... not!

I think not!

In other news, I simply am still plagued by NEVER ENDING BARB PROBLEMS! Even my home lands that have everything fog busted are showing never ending streams of barb boats spawning. It’s really slowing me down and won’t let up. Pretty sick for a deity game at this late stage. But at least I FINALLY got my academy built now.

Turns 180-190
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn190m_8f1c9d9.jpg
Well, sure enough, at turn #184 Monte suddenly says...
Time to die....
And he is smiling... I don’t get it?
Anyhow, here is the first wave... luckily it’s only crossbows for now, while I am the one who gets to upgrade to and draft Maces. Muahaha... I’m not sure what if anything Monte is sending to Cyrus, but I must thank the idiot for this war. It’s now turned Cyrus from pleased to friendly status with me.
Oh, and we ended up meeting Saladin, who was created by Cyrus.
And for some reason, that silly Khmer decided to grab a useless tile in my far south ONLY because it was a tile that was free. There isn’t even a resource or a hill, or food available for it. What a dork...

Turns 190-200
http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/2/15/obsolete/f_turn200m_7ff5947.jpg
Alright, now Monte just came out with a second wave, much more deadlier. A bunch of knights and it was aimed at my copper-junk city next to the continent Hannibal claimed. There was NO chance of defending it... zip, despite being on a hill. So, instead of letting Monte take it AND getting WINNING-THE-WAR points, I decided to flee away from it, and gifted the city to Hannibal.
Anyhow, I ended up doing something I normally don’t here. I used a popped GE to rush the SoL. The problem, is that I just lost my copper city because of this war. And while I do have one more copper source reserved from Cyrus, I can’t depend on it as any random event may take it from him, including Monte’s war, etc. I will be stuck for another 9 turns at least working on this SoL, and all the while Monte is getting some deity SoD’s ready to try and take another city from me any moment. Knights are pretty bad as it is and this war is just going to have to cost me even more sacrifies. So... we close our eyes and hit the rush-build button.

I don't think it is possible to pop Liberalism from a hut. Astronomy is the best, and the second best in terms of beaker price is Music.

I don't think it is possible to pop Liberalism from a hut. Astronomy is the best, and the second best in terms of beaker price is Music.


What's the biggest tech you can pop from a hut?

What's the biggest tech you can pop from a hut?

He just told you it's Astronomy, it's in the quote. ;)

I don't think it is possible to pop Liberalism from a hut. Astronomy is the best, and the second best in terms of beaker price is Music.

Alright, good to know in the future. No sense in keeping huts in RESERVE after Astronomy opens up.

Here are all the possible techs from huts:

Mysticism
Priesthood
Monarchy
Literature
Drama
Music
Fishing
The Wheel
Agriculture
Pottery
Sailing
Writing
Mathematics
Calendar
Currency
Astronomy
Hunting
Mining
Archery
Masonry
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
Horseback Riding
Iron Working
Metal Casting
Compass
Construction

Aesthetics was added to this list in BtS.

Here are all the possible techs from huts:

Mysticism
Priesthood
Monarchy
Literature
Drama
Music
Fishing
The Wheel
Agriculture
Pottery
Sailing
Writing
Mathematics
Calendar
Currency
Astronomy
Hunting
Mining
Archery
Masonry
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
Horseback Riding
Iron Working
Metal Casting
Compass
Construction

I don't see Aesthetics on that list, which I just popped from a later hut in my current game.

I got this list from another source, which might have been for vanilla/warlords, where there wasn't any Aesthetics. For BTS, I think Aesthetics would be the only new hut-enabled technology as the others are expensive.

Music is noteworthy as the only free tech you can get that gives you a reward for being the first to reach... which seems a little unfair. ;)

In the rare case where you actually find a hut in the late game, do explorers have better odds than scouts?

In the rare case where you actually find a hut in the late game, do explorers have better odds than scouts?

The last time I looked, the mechanic for explorers and scouts was the same (if you get a bad dice roll, try again up to 10 rolls).

In the rare case where you actually find a hut in the late game, do explorers have better odds than scouts?

The only reason to use an explorer would be to survive if 5 barbarian warriors pop. But the mechanics are the same.

Anyway, looking forward to the next update, as usual....

The last time I looked, the mechanic for explorers and scouts was the same (if you get a bad dice roll, try again up to 10 rolls).

Explorers are laughably useless though because barbarians love to squat on late huts. Even a warrior will keep an explorer at bay... military units or spies are better.

I find it broken that explorers can't be upgraded. They SHOULD be able to transition into airships.

Explorers are meant for those guarded huts, they have str 4 after all. They also start with woody I so if you have a big landmass to explore you only need a barracks for a woody II explorer to quickly map it out. The 2 movement points can be especially useful if you lack horses.

I find it broken that explorers can't be upgraded. They SHOULD be able to transition into airships.

On thesame lines; Am I the only one here who wonder why there's not spy sattalites in the game after the apollo program? Why are there still unexplored patches of land on the world after I've been to space? Didn't the apollo program in Civ2 give you a complete world map?

Try researching Satellites.

I find it broken that explorers can't be upgraded. They SHOULD be able to transition into airships.

It SHOULD be easy enough to Mod that in; a simple change to Civ4UnitInfos.xml ?

It SHOULD be easy enough to Mod that in; a simple change to Civ4UnitInfos.xml ?

Couldn't there be technical issues with turning a land unit into an air unit? It's kind of unprecedented. Have to make sure its in a city at least.

I don't see how this can be unprecedented considering a horse-archer or war-chariot is upgradable to a jet.

I don't see how this can be unprecedented considering a horse-archer or war-chariot is upgradable to a jet.

Helicopters are still essentially land units though. (have movement points and can't go over water for instance)

Helicopters are still essentially land units though. (have movement points and can't go over water for instance)

Besides, if you can ride a horse you can fly a helicopter. :p

It SHOULD be easy enough to Mod that in; a simple change to Civ4UnitInfos.xml ?

Upgrade to an Airship that doesn't need a city/fort. I also believe scouts/explorers should be able to pillage.

Turns 200-210
http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/3/2/17/f_turn210m_718d8c2.jpg
Woohoo, now that our SoL came in, we get our free FORGE-POWER.
Anyhow, looks like I didn’t have to rush it after all, at turn #202 we gave Monte the IDIOT 155 gold, and he took it for peace. What a sucker...
Unfortunately I feel very, very wasteful now with that GE, but we were really in a bad spot there, and had to play it safe. Our SSE really isn’t going as well as we planned, it’s just turning out now into something else. Such is life in the deity lane...
Anyhow, some bad news. Just when I found a nice spot where Oil was present, and was already getting a settler ready to take it, Zara beat me too it, so it was lost. Grrr, I even had roaded to it also, haha. What a waste... This was going to cause me much, problems later on.
And on our last turn, Cyrus just comes out and offers us MT. Great! I don’t plan on using it yet, but maybe I can trade it around, haha.

Turns 210-220
http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/3/2/17/obsolete/f_turn220m_fb6f56d.jpg
Well, some of our veteran units from our war with Monte-The-Idiot are now put to good use to capture another barb city. Hopefully this will cut down even further those pesky barb units that are still springing up all over the friggen place.
On turn #212 we also make a defense pact with Hannibal.
Turn #218 Cyrus completed the Kremlin.
At the end of this turn-set, I recreated my defense pact with Cyrus as well, AND I made one with Zara to top it off. Now if some of those super aggressive maniacs sneak-attacks me again, they are REALLY going to be in for it!

Turns 220-230
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/2/17/obsolete/f_turn230m_6bfea0c.jpg
On turn #223 we ran into De Gaulle, who it seems Zara may have created.
Also, I popped another GM, and used him for a golden-age to help speed up creation of Broadway.

Turns 230-240
http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/2/17/obsolete/f_turns240m_5221158.jpg
We end up finishing Broadway, it’s ours.
We then traded around for steam, and find out terrible news. We not only have no copper, and no oil.. but we also have no coal. This means, after we get IronWorks, it will only run up to 50% efficiency.
Also... De Gaulle ended up creating mining inc. Very silly since he has such a small empire.

Turns 240-250
http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/2/17/obsolete/f_turn250m_90933ae.jpg
Quite a lot of wonderbuilding going on this turnset. 4 of them!
My capital was busy completing the IronWorks, so I had three other cities work on the three Radio wonders. And I completed all of them this turn.
Here’s a shot from Fish-Corner City, the same turn that Iron-City completed Eiffel. Rock’n’ Roll was also putting in the last hammer this turn.
Anyhow I made a silly error. I popped another GM and was debating on what to do with him, so finally settled instead of saving for my run to computers. What I should have done is keep him because I could have taken a shot at Sushi, after all I was heading up that way anyway. So now I was stuck with no GM, oh well.. time to get Pacifism ready and see how to correct this problem. Sometimes I am just not thinking right...

Turns 250-260
http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/3/2/17/obsolete/f_turn260m_ebd85ee.jpg
Boy if you thought I made an error before, I really made one now. I ended up researching refrigeration, THINKING I was going after Medicine. Ahah! What an idiot I am. Anyhow, time to fix that by trading it to Zara for Medicine...
Hell, I was able to trade it to others for a bunch of other great techs and stuff, so maybe it wasn’t such a bad mistake after all.
On turn #254 we discovered aluminum near Iron City. Phew... We may have been screwed out of copper... We got screwed out of Oil.... We got screwed out of Coal... We got screwed out of Uranium...but at least we got one source of aluminum!
On turn #256 we got our GM and now to set it up in our planned Wallstreet city. Now lets see, do we chose Sushi or.... Cereal.
Anyhow, we completed 1 corporation and 4 more wonders this turn.

Sushi
Hollywood
United Nations
Forbidden Palace
Moai Statues.


We actually had built Moai in more than one city so we got some extra money. And while the last hammer went into the UN on our last turn, it technically doesn’t come operational until the start of turn #261

Turns 260-270
http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/2/17/obsolete/f_turn270m_f316e8a.jpg
I am competing with Cyrus for Secretary. Cyrus wins because Zara backstabbed me and voted for the other guy. Arghhhh...
But speaking of backstabbing. Stupid Khmer declares war on me. Actually, he DoW’ed on Hannibal, which forces me into the war against him. Strangely, I just got a -3 penalty for a DoW on him, when it was HIM who did the DoW. Seems to be a bug here, I didn’t do anything wrong. Anyhow, what a freiken ! I got draftable infantry, and he’s still stuck with muskets.

Muskets???

I know god damn well if I try to bribe him to attack anyone I get the “We are worried about their strength.” Yet HE can DoW himself on two superior nations? I just don’t get this stupidity.

Needless to say, I ended up capturing that silly (and useless) city he planted down on my southern tile ages ago. I guess it won’t be totally useless now that I have sushi to bring in food to it. But what an idiot...
Anyway, looks like Zara, Monte, Toku, Saladin, etc. Decided to get tangled up in another war of their own...

Turns 270-280
http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/2/17/obsolete/f_turn280m_1717f42.jpg
That stupid Khmer may pillage some sea-food but that’s about it. I have no worries otherwise. Anyway....
We finish off a couple more very big builds here.
In the capital we put our last hammer into the INTERNET, and in our Fish-Corner city we finish of T3GD. Of course, we put in a bit of extra cash to help out. No sense in taking a risk and losing it here, since we have enough cities where the wonder becomes quite important.
I’ve had my tech turned off for quite a while now, and will probably keep it turned off for the rest of the game. This sort of diminishes the value of the SSE, but if we had lost the internet race we’d of course have to keep research on. It’s hard to predict these points ahead of time on deity...
Anyhow, I saved a few turns after here before continuing, so I’ll stop the write-up for now.

So i'm guessing UN or space for your victory? With those power ratings i'm not sure domination is possible but I don't play at deity so I could be wrong.

Probably UN or Space, as domination is probaby out at this point.

So much land and no coal, copper, uranium or oil. That really sucks to be honest. Lets hope you get lucky and pop a source. Great game so far.

Turns 280-290
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/2/23/obsolete/f_turn290m_af8d9d4.jpg
We get a -1 relations with Zara event, and he also came demanding laser. I can’t remember if I gave it to him or not.

Shortly after, I got a + from all leaders due to a daring pilot.

And then, the UN stopped the war against Hannibal.
Also, with very low odds we popped a retarded great artist again. ARGGH, this gene pool really doesn’t work anymore.

Anyhow, we ended up planting down our LAST city of the game. I figure there is good room in this spot use, and it may just help in flipping Hannibal's city over to me.

The bad news, is it is costing us an ABSOLTUE FORTUNE to get oil. We are so screwed in resources here, it’s just ridiculous. I had to trade off lots of health, happy, and tones of gold to Cyrus just to get a single strategic resource. It’s crippling us bad, but we have no alternative. Missing out on that oil spot to Zara earlier is just crippling us here. Some pretty bad resource generation went on this game but there is nothing I can do unless we want to world-edit-cheat it now.

Turns 290-300
http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/3/2/23/obsolete/f_turn300m_eadd841.jpg
Our opponent Cyrus ended up completing the Space Elevator before us. Well, I could have possibly prevented that if I decided to beeline toward it earlier, but at the time I was thinking on just going all-out domination instead of the race. Well, it’s gone now, but at least we got 815 gold from the hammers put into it. The sad part is this pays for only about 1 turn of oil for us. That’s how bad we’re getting ripped off.
Another big problem was we got screwed in a bad capital placement. Not that much production, AND it was in a location that made it impossible to build the SE, so we had to build that elsewhere.... without any capital civics.
In other news, we completed both the Apollo Station, and the WallStreet.

Anyhow, at the end of this turnset, Hannibal DoWs on Monte.

Turns 300-310
http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/3/2/23/obsolete/f_turn310m_ff57824.jpg
We pop a Great Spy, and will save him for a final golden age to couple with other GPs.
Cyrus is on his last turn researching fusion. Looks like things are going to get very interesting here. Anyhow, we are paying top dollar for that oil from him, which will be our nice ace-in-the-hole in case anything goes wrong.

And actually, it looks like things COULD go wrong, Hannibal sure is completing parts fast now.

Turns 310-320
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/2/23/obsolete/f_turn320m_db38d53.jpg
Hmm, Cyrus now has researched the last tech needed for his last part. I guess it is finally that time now where we start to give him a few little..... set-backs.

Idiot AI’s are just too stupid to know how to handle counter-espionage.
Ohh, and look, some team declears war on Monte.

Anyhow, we ended up burning 3 great people this turnset in order to speed up our own ship parts so we can get ready to fly the hell out of here...

Turns 320-330
http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/2/23/obsolete/f_turn330m_84fb3c6.jpg
On turn #324 we shoot off with only 12 turns to victory...
But we are in a problem here. Hannibal launched just ahead of us in the que, so he will technicaly win. This is partly my fault, I really didn’t optimize my builds that well, for example I could have launched one turn at least quicker. The problem is, I was sort of hoping on letting Hannibal catch-up and bypass me, so that I could add a little drama here. Otherwise, I will end up sitting on my hands for a lot of turns while just waiting for my ship to arrive and doing nothing else.

But now... the tension is on! I have to at least attack someone now, and capture a capital just to have a hope of winning this one. See how much more fun it is now when you mis-manage on purpose?

Turns 330-336
http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/3/2/23/obsolete/f_turn340m_f175cc3.jpg
Well, on turn #332 we were 4 Turns to victory, *caugh *caugh...
And we start of with a BANG!

No nukes needed, simply a naval bombard followed up by raider tanks, and then CG mechs to hold. Yeah, yeah, I simply could raze the city, but there is no need. I want to just HOLD the city till the end.

And that I did, killing a lot of Hannibals other units on the counter-attack.
And funny thing, Cyrus DoWs o Monte, which is too late to do anything.

And of course, Khmer ends up attacking me.

Turn 336
http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/3/2/23/obsolete/f_1916m_dbeee3a.jpg
Khamer’s attacks no good, he had to take my capital and didn’t even come close...

So conquering a city capital AFTER an AIs launch will destroy the ship and make them reset it? If you conquer the city Before the AI launches does it destroy the ship parts? I had a game last night w/ Toku and the last important AI was Pericles. He had 5 or 6 parts built and I conquered his captial just to stop his cultural victory not really for his ship. The victory screen still said he had the parts built even though I razed his capital. Was this a bug or is that just how it works. I typically don't declare war to stop teh ship, but rather use spies to sabotage parts because it is easier.

EDIT: grats on win.

Well played Obsolete, whos next? I like Louis for this kind of game too. Are you planning to do any non-IND leaders? How about a PHI, like Freddy ?

So conquering a city capital AFTER an AIs launch will destroy the ship and make them reset it? If you conquer the city Before the AI launches does it destroy the ship parts?

No, I found this weird paradox out in that old Deity-of-Random thread. You can only destroy the ship by taking the capital AFTER it launches. If you do it before, they get to keep all their parts. I don't think they even have to re-build the Apollo station either, despite many on the forum have claimed this is the case.

Well played Obsolete, whos next? I like Louis for this kind of game too. Are you planning to do any non-IND leaders?

Hmm, maybe I can try some of the french leaders. I guess I'll try something else instead of the lighthouse, maybe I'll try and fool around with that silly AP thing. I still don't really understand how it works, it seems to always bug up on me when I try. Anyhow, I'm just sticking with industrious here, since it's getting the lowest rankings on the forum here.

Anyway, I forgot to add, this game bugged up on me. For example, Cyrus completed his Space Ship, but DIDN'T BOTHER LAUNCHING! I ran across this bug way back from one of the WarLords walkthroughs. Looks like it hasn't been fixed. Seems if 1 or 2 people launch, other AI's just don't bother doing so despite completing all requirements. I don't get it. Sometimes they launch, other times nothing happens...

Wow:goodjob: I noticed your power rating was 0.6:strength: to Hannibal, how did you manage to get through that with his power rating higher than yours?

Hannibal doesn't declare war at pleased :). Obsolete was friendly with Cyrus and Zara so only remaining threat was from Sury. I just now noticed this. That is incredible diplomacy.

Nice job. :goodjob:

Looks like Tokugawa got REALLY screwed by the map generator.

On the Apollo PROJECT, hence its name, not station, never played civ 3, so don't know about that.

On parts, I guess, the reason is, they build them at a 'remote launching facility', so when they lose capital, they just move Administration elsewhere, but once launched, I guess its so the Human has a chance to win/lose, with capital loss.

Keep up the Industrious series, I've always liked industrious, I too feel its a strong trait, due to the wonder denial/building. Free Great People points, bonuses whats not to like.

Wow:goodjob: I noticed your power rating was 0.6:strength: to Hannibal, how did you manage to get through that with his power rating higher than yours?

Magic-Fairy-Dust using rechargable energy particles from the Sun. :p

Nice job. :goodjob:

Looks like Tokugawa got REALLY screwed by the map generator.

He would have been screwed even with the best generation. He has no choice but to always fail due to his personality. Firaxis has never fixed this, and doubtful they ever will now.


And so... the last of details.
http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/3/2/24/obsolete/f_graphm_d124d18.jpg
http://img18.picoodle.com/img/img18/3/2/24/obsolete/f_demographicm_32f47b5.jpg
http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/2/24/obsolete/f_top5m_8c72c63.jpg