Ok, I hope you enjoyed Monarch Specialist Economy Walkthrough 1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=310071)!

In the first installment, I played as Ramesses who is Industrious and Spiritual. These are two very good SE traits. Industrious lets you nab a bunch of wonders that affect running a SE, like pyramids, parthenon, great library, statue of liberty, and so forth. Spiritual allows the cycling back and forth between wartime and specialist civics game-long with no anarchy. This is very powerful for a warmongering SE. I hope that you can apply the strengths of these traits now to other Industrious and Spiritual leaders when you may want to run a SE with them.

In this installment, I turn my focus to two other strong SE traits:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2Pericles0000.jpg

Philosophical is, of course, one of the premiere SE traits. 100% gpp empire-wide. Plus, cheap universities. The goal here is to run as many specialists as possible as often as possible to get max effect. Of course, it also affects wonders, but I will be looking to tone down the wonder spammage in this game, since I am not industrious. Great Library is always good though and others will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Pyramids will be avoided this game though.

Creative is a great warmongering-SE trait. Quick border pops helps with an early rush and the extra culture helps cover terrain game-long. The cheap libraries really help get those scientists going early and has obvious synergy with philosophical. The cheap theatres and coliseums are often overlooked by players playing as creative leaders. This is because they may not be running a warmongering-SE where running the culture slider can be very beneficial. I plan to put these cheap buildings into practice this game.

The combination of Creative (cheap libraries) and Philosophical (cheap universities) means that Oxford is going to come in a timely manner. This is, of course, aided by the philosophical trait and likely philosophy and education light bulbs. However, aside from these two lightbulbs and an academy, I may look to settle many GSs in my early-Oxford city. We'll see how it plays out.

Our UU is the phalanx. An improved axe unit is always good. No need to bring along spears on this guy's axe rush. However, we will see if an axe rush is possible in this game. No sense sending axes across great distances if we have room to expand at home.

The Odeon is nothing special really. I will build them because they are cheap and useful for the :)

Starting techs are fishing (useful if we are on the coast) and hunting (i personally love hunting for the scouting and goody hut advantages). Not so great in the worker-tech dept, but we'll cope.

Here is the starting position:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2StartLocation0000.jpg

I'm thinking I will need to snag that fish...

Round 1 (Part 1) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7770422&postcount=5)

Round 1 (Part 2) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7770471&postcount=6)

Round 1 (Part 3) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7770507&postcount=7)

Round 2 (Part 1) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7774059&postcount=23)

Round 2 (Part 2) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7775431&postcount=28)

Conclusion (Part 1) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7784957&postcount=33)

Conclusion (Part 2) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7785021&postcount=34)

Conclusion (Part 3) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7785076&postcount=35)

Yeah, move 1W and grab it.

Btw, it is hard coming on the forum these days. My comp's been messing around and I can't play civ. ;)

Your first game really showcased Ramesses rather well. War Chariots, sort of a religous economy (you built a shrine and tons of Wonder building + Specialists early). He's one of my favorite leaders too. I think my highest score on Monarch has been with him.

Even FEUSS wouldn't cottage this capitol. Time to move the palace?

I've played the first round (to Liberalism). I will post on Saturday or Sunday.

Alright, here we go:

4000BC-Move scout S-SW, Move Settler 1W
3960BC-Settle Athens; Workboat and an unorthodox opening of teching Archery

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE23960Athens0000.jpg

3760BC-Pop hut for 85 gold
3640BC-Archery done, start animal husbandry; Hindu FIDL
3600BC-WB done, start worker
3480BC-Buddhism FIDL
3320BC-Meet our first AI:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE3320Churchill0000.jpg

Churchill. Protective and to our SE. He has the available land to become a monster if left unchecked.

3160BC-AH and worker done; mining and archer started; do we have horses?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE23160HorsesEtc0000.jpg

Yes, and nearby patches of Gold and Ivory. Lots of jungle down there though.

3040BC-Did I really say I was going to avoid Pyramids this game!!!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE23040Stone0000.jpg

Sigh...

2920BC-Mining done, start BW; meet our nextdoor neighbour:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE22920Napoleon0000.jpg

I'm thinking this continent isn't big enough for the both of us...

2880BC-No shortage of happiness resources on this map:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE22880HappyRes0000.jpg

You can see Nappy's empire there too

2520BC-Lose our pastured pigs to a random event. Turns out to be ok because otherwise we would've had an idle worker. Consequence of opening with archery. I went for archery, as I often do with leaders who start with hunting, just to mix it up a bit and go more with a Snaaty-style opening.

2440BC-Brave scout killed; the surroundings he revealed:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2EarlyEmpire0000.jpg

2360-BW done. Do we have copper? No, we do not. Our UU won't be getting a workout. Revolt to slavery (1 turn anarchy)

2160BC-Sparta founded:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2Sparta0000.jpg

I weigh my options and decide that settling on the horses is the right decision in this case. I'm wanting to hit Nappy with chariots asap and the land surrounding the horses isn't so hot. It also puts me on the coast for easy resource hookup with my capital.

2040BC-Finish wheel (enables chariots), start agriculture
1860BC-Finish ag, start pottery
1560BC-Finish pottery, start writing
1280BC-After whip/building 9 chariots, with reinforcements on the way, I declare on Nappy:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21280BCWar0000.jpg

1240BC-And, in a quick strike, I sack Paris:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21240BCParis0000.jpg

1200BC-I autoraze Orleans. Nappy RIP:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21200FranceGone0000.jpg

To be continued...

...continued

With Nappy gone, I have a good chunk of land to settle, so I get to it.

1160BC-Writing done, start mysticism
975BC-OB with Churchill
925BC-Our scouting chariots spot Churchill's empire:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2925BCChurchillEmpire0000.jpg

875BC-Get some early scientists going:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2875EarlySs0000.jpg

850BC-Meet the last AI on our continent:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2850Gandhi0000.jpg

Peaceful Gandhi. Him and Churchill founded different religions and don't like each other. Gandhi later starts teching like a maniac and seems to head toward a cultural victory. I'm thinking Churchill will have him for breakfast without some intervention on my part. I OB with Gandhi.

825BC-Finish Polyth, start Aesthetics
650BC-Found Corinth:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2650BCCorinth0000.jpg

It can work the wheat and gold.

Also, get our 1st GPers, a GS:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2650BCGS0000.jpg

I use him on an academy in Athens

600BC-Aesth done, start Literature
550BC-Found Thebes, purely for the silver resource:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2550BCThebes0000.jpg

500BC-Found Argos:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2500BCArgos0000.jpg

Outside of the two capitals, this is the only other strong city. I am planning on building the GT there as my drafting center.

Our economy is on life support again though:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2500BCEconomyCrashed0000.jpg

6 BC cities with no cottages will do that. I really do abuse the ol' economy when running a SE!

480BC-Hindu spreads to us, be we hold off on converting for a bit. No need to anger Churchill before absolutely necessary

425BC-A brave workboat has scouted out a large patch of islands near our capital:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2425BCIslandsNearCapital0000.jpg

I tell myself that I am not going to build the GLH because this game is supposed to be toning down the wonder-spammage!

375BC-Literature done, start priesthood; trade wheat to Gandhi for Clam
325BC-Priest done, start Code of Laws
125BC-Get our 2nd GP, another GS. I decide to save him for awhile.
1AD: We complete two world wonders:

In Athens:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21GL0000.jpg

In Paris:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21ToA0000.jpg

I set Paris to work on the ToA thinking I would lose it and just get the gold. Paris had nothing else to build and my economy was starting to head downhill, so I just set it to ToA. So be it.

50AD-With another GS soon to pop, I change my mind and settle the stored GS in our capital. I need some more beakers/turn
100AD-CoL done, start Alphabet
150AD-GPers #3 born, another GS. This time I save him for Philo

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2150GS0000.jpg

250AD-Alpha done; trade Alpha/Aesth to Churchill for IW/Math/Medit; trade Alpha to Gandhi for Sail/Masonry. Do we have iron?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2250Iron0000.jpg

Yes, we do.

275BC-Bulb Philo, and...

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2275Taoism0000.jpg

Founded in Corinth. Now that pacificism is available, I revolt to Hindu, which has spread to my core cities (1 turn anarchy)

300AD-Revolt to caste system and pacificism (1 turn anarchy):

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2300CastPac0000.jpg

350AD-Reject Churchill's demand to cancel deals with Gandhi. Churchill and I are not going to coexist forever, it seems.

400AD-A shot of Gandhi and Churchill. Gandhi is teching like crazy, but is hemmed in by Churchill. If left alone for ever, he would probably win by culture, since he has founded a bunch of religions. Churchill will expand like crazy to the East and would become a beast in the renaissance if left unchecked.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2400ADChurchillandGandhi0000.jpg

475AD-Complete our first National Wonder:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2475NE0000.jpg

Also, we get our 4th GPers, another GS, who I settle in our capital

500AD-Knossos founded:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2500Knossos0000.jpg

It can work the seafood and furs

A shot of Athens working hard:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2500ADAthens0000.jpg

560AD-Mycanae founded:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2560Mycenae0000.jpg

A filler city, nothing more.

600AD-Finish Civil Service and revolt to Bureaucracy (1 turn anarchy). GP#5, a GS:

I don't seem to have a pic, but you know what they look like. I use him to bulb paper.

640AD-Found Pharsalos:

Also missing a pic here (I was playing while tired), but you can see it in the following pic of my empire. It is to the SE of my capital working the rice and horses:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2640Empire0000.jpg

I start to think to myself that with an empire that looks like that, and with the GLH still hanging around, not building it is really, really dumb. So I start to think that this is a situation where I will allow myself to take a shot at it.

To be continued...

...Continued

700AD-This game I have a good spot for the Moai, in Paris. I also plan to put the HE there if I ever get it unlocked!

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2700Moai0000.jpg

720AD-Gandhi cancels our wheat/clam deal. I give him furs for it instead
740AD-Compass is completed, start Metal Casting
760AD-Cave in to Churchill's demand for Compass.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2760Churchilldemand0000.jpg

I don't want him to declare on me before I am ready. Also, we get GPers #6, another GS--no pic again, zzzzzz. I use him to bulb most of Education

780AD-And, I finally can stand it no longer:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2780GLH0000.jpg

I tried my best to lose it, I really did. But a man can only take so much!

800AD-Compass to Gandhi for Calendar
840AD-Metal Casting done, set to finish Educ

860AD-GP#7 is in, a great prophet from the ToA. I save him. Gandhi has a double holy city that I want to turn into my future WS city. If he doesn't get a couple of GPs for the shrines, I will use this guy for one of them. No pic, but you can see him resting in my capital coming up in another pic.

920AD-GP#8 is in, a GS. I save him until Ed is done.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2920GS0000.jpg

940AD-Reject Friendly Gandhi's request for Philo. Umm, no, crazy teching Gandhi. However, I will trade him CS and Paper for Drama/Monarchy/Construction. I also trade him crab for banana.

980AD-Found Ephesus, putting the GLH to work:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2980Ephesus0000.jpg

1000AD-Ed is in, bulb most of Liberalism; Found Halicarnassus:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21000Halicarnassus0000.jpg

1020AD-Found Rhodes:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21020Rhodes0000.jpg

1030AD-Liberalism->Nationalism.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21030Liberalism0000.jpg

I want to get a start on the Taj because I have no marble. I want to use the golden age to lead me toward rifling. My goal is to hit Churchill with Rifles asap. I might need to bring some siege along this time too because I only have 3 decent cities for pumping units.

Some pics:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21030Continent0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21030F10000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21030F20000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21030F40000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21030Athens0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21030Paris0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21030RiflingBeeline0000.jpg

Cottage/hammer to 1 AD

- All auto worker

Settled 1W. We find the french early.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

And we end them early.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Ooooh free great wall.

Paris and Athens are both GP farms. Most of my other cities are better for hammers so I click that button on the governor.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

The bottom 2 are my cottage cities. Corinth, with its banana and riverside, is becoming my capitol.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

Cottage/hammer auto worker to 1959 AD

Bulb for tao

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

I invested an academy in corinth long before it was a useful city, not just to have it in place for later, but to apply vicious culture pressure to churchill

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

Liberalism.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Sushi

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

Churchill was pretty big and I didn't feel like slogging through so I delayed my attack for quite some time, one might say.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

Then I felt like going for space. Since I had mining/sushi I just automated all city builds and only took over to make space parts. Nobody else even built apollo since the other continent was a bunch of warring idiocy.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/1959adlatespace0000.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/FEUSS%20II/stats0000.jpg

I wanted to point out for players newer to bulbing the liberalism route that in order to bulb liberalism directly, in addition to education and philosophy, you also have to have calendar, compass, and metal casting, and NOT machinery. To bulb philosophy you need col or drama, medit, and math/alpha. To bulb paper you need CS. To bulb education you need paper. All of these are bulbed with GSs. Philosophical churning out GSs can take you up the liberalism route really quickly, especially if you are able to trade for MC/Compass/Calendar along the way. This is harder to do at monarch and below because the AI techs so slowly.

TMIT-I'm not even being sarcastic when I say this, but space really slows you down!! While us mere mortals would LOVE a game to finish that fast, by your standards, and with autoworkers, it seems a little slow. Man I feel weird saying that...but didn't you do Toku in under 1:30?

TMIT-I'm not even being sarcastic when I say this, but space really slows you down!! While us mere mortals would LOVE a game to finish that fast, by your standards, and with autoworkers, it seems a little slow. Man I feel weird saying that...but didn't you do Toku in under 1:30?

It's the combination of BOTH massive warfare AND space.

Also, toku was 1:34 :p.

On topic: Future makes very good points about bulbing the lib path -----> you should seriously consider doing this even under FEUSS. You get oxford sooner, a free tech, and you're much closer to democracy from doing it.

I have played to ca. 1650 AD. I will post probably on Sunday.

I wanted to point out for players newer to bulbing the liberalism route that in order to bulb liberalism directly, in addition to education and philosophy, you also have to have calendar, compass, and metal casting, and NOT machinery. To bulb philosophy you need col or drama, medit, and math/alpha. To bulb paper you need CS. To bulb education you need paper. All of these are bulbed with GSs. Philosophical churning out GSs can take you up the liberalism route really quickly, especially if you are able to trade for MC/Compass/Calendar along the way. This is harder to do at monarch and below because the AI techs so slowly.

does it change anything if you do have machinery?

does it change anything if you do have machinery?

If you have machinery, you can't bulb liberalism itself, you will instead bulb down the optics ----> astro line.

if you have to bulb liberalism on monarch, you are teching too slowly!

if you have to bulb liberalism on monarch, you are teching too slowly!

What would you do with the GS otherwise? Settle it? Without pyramids for rep that doesn't seem as appealing as getting oxford or your free tech sooner.

Read it, learn it, love it:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/greatpeople_tech.php

What would you do with the GS otherwise? Settle it? Without pyramids for rep that doesn't seem as appealing as getting oxford or your free tech sooner.

academy? GA?

academy? GA?

I'd buy the academy (more like I assumed one would be up before you'd consider bulbing typically), but a GA in the early-mid AD? You would need to produce 1000's of beakers-worth of more commerce/hammers/great people to justify doing that instead of bulbing, possibly more if the bulb means you can trade something faster, and the GAs are finite and stronger later while the bulb is stronger now...

In this case, I also wanted to bulb liberalism in order to get started on the Taj earlier because I didn't have marble. In many of my offline monarch games I bulb education, but not liberalism directly. With a philosophical leader though, bulbing through liberalism directly is appealing because you are usually swimming in GSs. If you have pyramids then settling them all is another possibility, of course. Even without pyramids, you could also settle them, but it just depends on the game situation.

In the pregame thread it was suggested to me that I should talk more about diplomacy. So, I thought I would share my thoughts on diplo this game.

The closeset opponent was Napoleon. Napoleon's personality is that he will simply be content to grow in power until the renaissance age where he will come at you with large stacks. He can be difficult and demanding to get along with. He was close, I had horses, so I figured rather than give him a chance to come at me, I would strike first.

The remaining opponents on my continent were Churchill and Gandhi. Churchill is similar to Nappy in that he will be more likely to come at you in the renaissance. I didn't really fear an early attack, especially since he had a ton of land to settle to his east. However, I didn't want to totally upset him, so I caved to one of his demands and didn't do anything to really upset him. I wanted him to remain peaceful and expand to his east, while I beelined to hit him with rifles. Fortunately for me, he overextended his expansion, crashing his economy, and he teched very slowly this game.

In contrast, Gandhi is a punching bag. You can hit him as often as you want, and he won't hit back. He was also teching like crazy this game and founding religions. To me, this means, a late-game cultural victory if left alone. He can be a very nice ally in these situations because he will trade a lot of techs with you, especially if you get him to Friendly, which I did, by sharing religion, trading techs and resources, opening borders, and so forth. I buddied up with Gandhi for the tech trades, which meant that Churchill fell further and further behind in tech because neither me nor Gandhi were really trading with him (Gandhi hated him because of different religions). I knew that Gandhi would never be a threat militaristically, so I was content to keep him around as long as he was useful.

I will talk about overseas diplo after my next post.

Also, I was advised to talk more about city specialization. I will try and do so more when I post rounds, but let me say a few general things about city specialization in a SE. All cities will want granary/barracks. Granary is an essential building and in a SE all cities will be producing military. In cities that will run a lot of scientists, whipping out the science buildings (library/university/observatory) is a good idea. However, since running merchants for a crashed economy can be a semi-common occurence :lol: whipping out the gold buildings (bank/market/grocer) can also a good idea. In addition, due to high :mad: from whipping/drafting, whipping out the :) buildings is a great idea (market, theatre, colosseum, forge, etc.). This is a lot of infrastructure, so it is important to prioritize, depending on your needs. If you know you are going to be settling down to tech for awhile, then focus on the science buildings. If you are gearing up for war, it is a good idea to focus on the :) buildings first. If your economy is shattered and you need to rebuild, focusing on the gold buildings and merchants is the way to go. If you are spiritual, swapping into organized religion can be a very beneficial move for getting that infrastructure up. Buildings in a SE correspond to your cycles and should be built accordingly. Science buildings during your tech cycle. Happiness buildings during your war cycle. Gold buildings during your recovery cycle. Rinse, repeat as new buildings become available.

...Continued

Ok, this round my focus was on beelining to rifles in order to invade Churchill.

1050AD-GP #9, a GS:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21050GS0000.jpg

I keep him in reserve for a second. I give fur and crab to Churchill for Ivory and 6/turn; also monarchy/lit to him for mono/50. I get something (can't read my own handwriting!), machinery, feudalism, and map from Gandhi for Phil/Ed. Then I use the GS to bulb most of Printing Press.

1080-Give Lib to Gandhi for Theology/Optics
1090-Finish PP, return to researching gunpowder
1140-GP #10, another GS, settle him in the capital:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21140GS0000.jpg

1150-Gandhi settles an annoying city, signaling to me the need to settle my islands asap:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21150GandhiCity0000.jpg

1160-Theo to Churchill for currency/40; need this for my economy
1180-Finish gunpowder, start guilds (unfortunately Gandhi doesn't have it yet); GP#11, another GS, settle in the capital (missing pic)
1230-GP #12, another GS, settle in capital (missing pic)

Found Eretria, a pretty strong islands city. I plan to put production improvements on all the land tiles:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2Eretria0000.jpg

1240-Finish guilds, start banking; guilds to Gandhi for HBR/940 (!!!) helps fund deficit research

1270-Finish banking, start replaceable parts
1290-Found Pergamon:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21290Pergamon0000.jpg

1310-GP #13, a GM (keep reserved):

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21310GM0000.jpg

1320-Complete the Taj:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21320Taj0000.jpg

This allows me to make a civic swap anarchy free:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21320HRandMerc0000.jpg

I figure HR can't hurt, although I didn't really need it to this point with all the happiness resources.

1340-GP #14, a GS, settle in the capital:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21340GS0000.jpg

1350-Replaceable parts in, start rifling
1360-Complete another National Wonder:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21360Oxford0000.jpg

A shot of Athens post-Oxford:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21360Athens0000.jpg

A shot of Paris working hard:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21360Paris0000.jpg

1370-Found Miletos:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21370Miletos0000.jpg

1380-Complete another National Wonder just in time for war preparations:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21380GT0000.jpg

1400-Golden Age from Taj ends, use our GM in reserve to trigger another GA
1410-Meet our first overseas rival:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21410Willem0000.jpg

He's not teching as fast as I would like as he is embroiled in war...I give him lit for 10/map and OB with him

1420-Rifling is done, start Military Tradition. Gandhi has it, but won't trade. We dropped out of Friendly because he went into free religion. I will need cavalry I figure to finish clearing my continent. I have some high production cities, but not a lot of good drafting cities, so I figure this move makes sense.

We also prove the world is round this turn.

Then, since we are on a Golden Age, I cycle into war civics anarchy free. Some pics:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21420Cycle0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21420PreWarPower0000.jpg

1430-Meet our next overseas rival:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21430Gilgamesh0000.jpg

He's relatively tech-backwards and buddies with Willem. They share confucianism. I give him CoL for 60/map and I OB with him.

This round something terrible happens. I swear the AI can tell when I am getting ready to stomp them! Gandhi vassals voluntarily to Churchill Bah! Why not make me the offer instead of your hated nemesis? This was totally unexpected. Now I will have to take them both on. If this was anyone other than docile Gandhi it could really make things complicated. Fortunately though, it IS docile Gandhi.

1440-We meet our last overseas rival:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21440Toku0000.jpg

Yep, our buddy Toku. He hates us already and is embroiled in war. I don't bother trading with him. He's supremely tech-backwards as usual and in a war with Willem. I figure we can buddy up with Willem and Gilga and then invade Toku as a target if necessary (so long as he does not capitulate to Willem, which I sort of expect).

1460-reject Toku's demand for war against Willem; Banking/Optics to Willem for Engineering.
1480-Join in a fake war against Toku to build relations with Willem:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21480FakeWar0000.jpg

Reject a demand from Gandhi:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21480GandhiDemand0000.jpg

Um, no.

1500-GP #15, a GS. Settle in the capital.

...to be Continued.

I will give my diplo thoughts, since I also played this:

The closeset opponent was Napoleon. Napoleon's personality is that he will simply be content to grow in power until the renaissance age where he will come at you with large stacks. He can be difficult and demanding to get along with. He was close, I had horses, so I figured rather than give him a chance to come at me, I would strike first.

I'll make this a little more accurate. Nap is #1 in the game in ibuildunitprob, with a low peace weight. He declares at pleased. The only better thing about him than shaka as a neighbor is that he isn't AGG for the rush and his UU comes later. He's still a top notch warmonger and demanding and his favorite civic isn't till mid game. Futurehermit and I reacted to him similarly for a reason.

The remaining opponents on my continent were Churchill and Gandhi. Churchill is similar to Nappy in that he will be more likely to come at you in the renaissance.

Churchill isn't like nap at all. First of all, churchill does not declare at pleased, and his peace weight is higher. Initially, churchill and gandhi were in different religions in my game. I sided with churchill because gandhi, in addition to being a punching bag, is the only leader in the game that doesn't get pissy when you refuse requests, and he's extremely unlikely to attack. By just getting churchill to pleased, you have 100% war immunity until post astro.

Note that there is no trade cap on friendly AIs, so I did what I could to broker techs extensively on our land.

The other land was FULL of AIs that declare at pleased and in my game, they were at each other's throats. I actually got gilgamesh to friendly for a good portion of the game thanks to shared civic bonuses. Toku and willem could shove it since they absolutely hated each other.

Given the diplo climate, I got extremely lazy since I was 100% immune to war for most of the game after cutting nap down.

From the micro end, I unfortunately don't have too much to mention because I went the auto worker route. For me and the cottage/hammer game, I used the governors and auto workers to create the improvements. Note that while the auto workers actually aren't too bad at this form of specialization once you have all the techs (aka late renaissance), they waste a lot of worker turns early building questionable things like cottages in hammer cities and not planning ahead. In my game MM only had a few noteworthy facets:

- Moved the cottage bureaucracy capitol to corinth, to make the usual abuse of cottages + bureaucracy + library + academy early and later on adding obs/uni/oxford.
- Made 1 more cottage city, directly east, which had a lot of green land.
- Athens and paris both had "emph great people" checked. Up to lib I used scientists, after that I just ran any old spec slots en masse' post emancipation.
- The diplo climate was excessively favorable, I built wealth more than usual in this game to run more gold through the super science city.
- It really doesn't take a lot of skill to beat redcoats with tanks and fighters.

I wasn't worried because the AI beaker rate on monarch isn't too impressive and with immunity to war and decent science cities it was easy to run away.

Trades are huge. In fact, if you can manipulate diplo such that you open up a couple trade partners, you can really abuse it. Trades are the greatest beaker multiplier in the game and intelligent trading can make an OK or even somewhat crappy tech rate seem far better than it is otherwise. If you create a trading block and isolate some hated AIs, you can easily get backward opponents that your friends won't even care if you stomp down. In fact, they might like it.

Trades are how I win on immortal with crap beaker rates like 1k beakers per turn, yet still somehow have infantry on rifles. Hmm. I see players with better tech rates struggle on lower levels occasionally!

Churchill isn't like nap at all.

To be more precise, what I meant is that IF he IS going to come after you, it will likely be in the Renaissance era. In terms of friendliness though, they do differ.

To be more precise, what I meant is that IF he IS going to come after you, it will likely be in the Renaissance era. In terms of friendliness though, they do differ.

I don't see anything in the XMLs that dictate that napoleon is any less likely to smack you down than shaka pre-renaissance, other than a tiny peace weight variance.

What interesting is that if we'd let nap live he and gandhi would probably have been worst enemies on sight due to peace weight modifiers.

I'm not talking in terms of XMLs, just from my experience with these two guys across all my games. I rarely have Nappy attack me in the early game, unlike Shaka. Sure, if you call him little man and thrust his demands back in his face, and so forth, he might come at you. But, the real threat, imo is his large renaissance stacks.

...Continued

1505AD-Military tradition is in, start chemistry. I'm undecided about my tech path at this point. I figure Chem goes up the Biology path and a military path so I'll nab that.

I also give compas to Gilga for 50/map.

And, I decide that my window of opportunity is closing, so:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21505WaronChurchGandhi0000.jpg

I declare on Churchill and Gandhi. I don't anticipate an assault from Gandhi, although I keep an eye on him. I focus instead on Churchill, hoping Gandhi will break free at some point so we can take peace and then redeclare on Gandhi when we are ready.

1510-Finally get our first GG, which I use on a MASH chariot unit.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21510GG10000.jpg

1515-Sack Coventry

1520-A quick glance at the power graph now, after only a century of drafting/whipping an army from a small core of cities:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21520Power0000.jpg

1525-My economy is on the brink, so although I don't want to, I decide it is necessary to swap into caste system (1 turn anarchy) so I can run merchants

1530-Merchant economic stabilization:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21530MerchantRecovery0000.jpg

1535-Sack York (marching through Churchill's core empire and killing his largest stacks of medieval units)

1550-Sack London, get GG#2 who I settle in Paris:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21550London0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21550GG20000.jpg

1565-As I hoped, Gandhi breaks free from Churchill. I negotiate a ceasefire with him.

1570-Sack Canterbury; trade fur and crab to Gandhi for banana and ivory, plus I open borders

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21570GandhiTrade0000.jpg

1575-Sack Nottingham; Willem has declared peace with Toku, so I follow suit and end my fake war:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21575PeaceWithToku0000.jpg

1580-Willem makes a demand and I give in for the diplo:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21580WillemDemand0000.jpg

1585-Complete another National Wonder:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21585HE0000.jpg

In Paris. With Moai and HE and some settled GGs, it will be a nice troop producer, as well as a navy producer later.

Also, sack Warwick (moving now through Churchill's empire with not much resistance. Splitting my army into smaller stacks to quickly take his smaller cities)

1595-Raze Norwich; GG#3 is born (yes, I'm killing a bunch of outdated troops and it adds up quick); settle him in Paris:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21595GG30000.jpg

1600AD-Sack Oxford

1610-Sack Newcastle

1615-GP#16 is born, a GS (keep in reserve); Sack Nubian; Sack Hastings

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21615GS0000.jpg

1620-Constitution done (finished Chem awhile back too), go for Scientific Method; crab/gold to Willem for wine/12 per turn; Nationalism/Education to Gilga for Astro; Gold/fur/wheat to Gilga for dye/spice/16 per turn

1625-Sack Birmingham; Sack Reading
1630-Sack Liverpool
1635-Sack Brighton; horse to Willem for Gem and 1/turn
1640-Lose Hastings temporarily to an overlooked maceman; Raze a barb city that sprung up in the only place it could:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21640BarbCity0000.jpg

1645-Take back Hastings
1650-Sack Dover, Eliminate Churchill:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21650ChurchillRIP0000.jpg

Just a few workers there to help me with bringing Churchill's empire up to code!

Post-War (former Churchill) Empire:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21650Postwarempire0000.jpg

Synopsis of the War with Churchill:

I started the war with around 40 rifles and about 8 catapults to marginally help with defenses. I kept them concentrated early because I had a clear path south through the core of his empire. I took out his large stacks while taking the first couple core cities, including his capital. Once the core of his army was broken, then I fanned out my core stack into multiple smaller stacks, which were all fed by reinforcements, with the reinforcements forming their own small stacks on occasion. Fanning my army out in this way allowed me to march through his large empire quite quickly. I continued to draft heavily early on, but as my need for units diminished, I only continued to draft in my GT city. My main production cities, especially Paris, pumped Cavalry as well. These premiere renaissance units are a terror on open land and also take cities quite well without support up until the AI gets its own gunpowder defenders, especially rifles.

Now that Churchill is gone, I can focus on consolidating my empire and attacking Gandhi. I am in the process now of beelining Communism. If I win the race I am planning on using the GSpy combined with a GS to trigger a golden age to make a civic swap, which will include a swap into state property, which will really, really help my economy. I am hoping this will be the last civics switch I will have to make this game, but we'll see.

Being in caste system and not slavery really hurt, because it meant I couldn't whip Churchill's cities as they came out of revolt. As a result, I lost a lot of population due to starvation. Alas, not having spiritual and not wanting to suck up the anarchy here really hurt (and not being able to afford to crank up the luxury slider any more). I thought long and hard about whether or not to take the hit and swap into slavery, but I didn't want to risk the possibility of a strike. Maybe I made the wrong move here, but I don't think it will hurt me in the long run. With farms about to be enhanced by biology it won't take me long to regrow the population.

I am almost finished this game. I plan on finishing it tonight and hopefully posting the last round tomorrow.

Here is a teaser:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21864Kyoto0000.jpg

Great writeup :goodjob:

Looking forward to the conclusion. Really appreciate the summaries that get into the details of what happened in the round.

Thanks, glad you find it useful :)

I enjoy them as well, I would never think of playing like this myself. I'm more of a cottage man, see.

Cool historical accuracy in that you got both Aristotle and Hypatia as GPs :D

Alright, here goes the conclusion. A couple of things to understand:

-As I moved to close this game out, I transitioned into a hybrid SE/hammer economy. I see this as one of the natural endgames for a warmongering SE. Basically, as state property, workshop improvements, railroad, and industrialization (factories, coal plants) become available, swap into a civic arrangement that looks like rep-nationhood-caste system-state property-theocracy. This allows specialist cities that use rep and caste to run max specialists and a majority of production cities that work caste/state property workshops and state property water mills and get the 10% bonus production from state property. This leads to a VERY productive empire as you will see. If teching is less of an issue, police state can be added instead of rep. If generating gp is still a concern, pacificism can be used instead of theocracy. In this set up, cycling becomes less necessary (i.e., this is good for non-spiritual civs) because you can simultaneously tech and produce. Furthermore, state property MAJORLY cuts down on the maintenace costs of such a large empire (great for pursuing domination victories). You will see what I mean as I post the report.

Alright, I'll say more as I go along and post some final reflections afterwards.

1655AD-Scientific Method is in, start Communism. Do we have oil?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21655Oil0000.jpg

Yes, plenty of it.

1675-Wheat/Banana to Willem for incense/corn; lib and part of constitution to him for economics

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21675WillemTrade0000.jpg

1690-1st to Communism; use the GSpy + a GS for a Golden Age. Swap to rep/state property (no anarchy). Swapping into state property provided us with an amazing additional 173 gold/turn!

A shot of Athens:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21690Athens0000.jpg

Cycling:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21690Cycle0000.jpg

Great Spy:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21690GSpyComm0000.jpg

Golden Age:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21690GoldenAge0000.jpg

1700-Gandhi offers himself up as a vassal. Too little, too late. Fortunately, Gandhi pops a GProphet and builds the Hindu Shrine!!! I decide that since Judaism has not really spread and since the era of monasteries and organized religion is past, this frees up my GProphet-in-reserve to be used in a future golden age.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21700GandhiVassalOffer0000.jpg

1715-Bio done, start steel
1730-Steel done, start corporation; golden age finished; declare war on Gandhi; sack Lahore

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21730WaronGandhi0000.jpg

1735-Complete a world wonder:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21735Kremlin0000.jpg

I figure this gives me the option of extensive late-game whipping, should I decide to go that route, which I never do.

1740-Corp done, start Steam Power; Willem declares on Toku; Sack Calcutta; GG #4 is born (settle in Paris); GPers #17, as GS (keep in reserve)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21740GG0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21740GS0000.jpg

1750-Sack Varanasi; Sack Pataliputra
1755-Reject Toku demand; Sack Apache; Sack Hyderabad

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21755TokuDemand0000.jpg

1765-Steam power done, start assembly line. Do we have coal?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21765Coal0000.jpg

Yes, we do.

1780-Found Megara; Sack Bombay:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21780Megara0000.jpg

1785-Found Phocaea; Sack Agra:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21785Phocaea0000.jpg

1790-Join Willem in fake war vs. Toku; MilTrad+Bio to Willem for Physics; Bio to Gilga for Demo/450; Sack Delhi; Since London can produce the SoL in < 10 turns, I go for it; GG#5 (settle in Paris); Found Sicyon:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21790FakeWar0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21790Delhi0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21790GG0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21790SoLinProgress0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21790Sicyon0000.jpg

...to be Concluded

...Concluded

1790-The benefit of buttering up to Willem:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21790WillemFriendly0000.jpg

Friendly financial AIs make nice tech-trading allies

1795-Finish Assembly Line, start Fascism; start industrializing empire wide (factories/coal plants everywhere)

1804-1st fo Fascism, settle GG in Oxford (future IW/WP city); start Railroad; sack Vijayanagara; Raze Madras

1806-Complete IW; Also, a shot of our uranium:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21806IWOxford0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21806Uranium0000.jpg

1810-Raze Bangalore; Gandhi RIP:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21810GandhiRIP0000.jpg

Postwar Empire:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21810PostwarEmpire0000.jpg

GPerson #18 is born, a GM:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21812GM0000.jpg

I reserve him for a golden age.

1812-Toku vassals to Willem. I guess I could have intervened to stop this, as I will explain below, but it is ok. I use my GM/GP/GS on a golden age.

1814-RR is done, start combustion
1816-Complete the SoL:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21816SoL0000.jpg

1822-Pentagon as well:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21822Pentagon0000.jpg

Combustion done, start electricity

1824-Found Tiryns:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21824Tiryns0000.jpg

1826-Elec done, start industrialism; a useful warmongering national wonder:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21826MtRushmore0000.jpg

Found Samos and Mytilene:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21826Samos0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21826Mytilene0000.jpg

1828-Found Chios, Paros:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21828Chios0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21828Paros0000.jpg

1834-Willem offers a defensive pact:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21834DPofferWillem0000.jpg

A friendly offer, but I have more devious plans. Industrialism is done, start radio. Do we have aluminum?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21834Aluminum0000.jpg

Yes, yes, we do.

1836-Another national wonder done:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21836WP0000.jpg

A nice troop-producer Oxford has become.

1840-Radio done, start refrigeration (need the health now badly from industrializing)

1844-Refrigeration done, start medicine
1846-Complete another world wonder:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21846Broadway0000.jpg

Also, grow our 19th Gperson, a GS. Since I doubt I'll get another golden age, I settle him in the capital.

Synopsis of the war with Gandhi:

Pretty straightforward. I fan out stacks of rifles/cavalry along his borders and then move in to take cities simultaneously. I make sure to bring enough units to get the job done. I raze his awkwardly placed northern islands cities to make room for better-placed cities that at least have food resources. In short order, he is only remembered in the history books as a peace-loving cultural-victory pursuer who was a casualty of the Greek Empire's plans for world domination.

...to be Concluded

...Concluded

1848-After a very short period of industrialization, which involved a swap to caste/state property, as well as a farm/mine/workshop/watermill spam empire-wide, and a factory/coal plant spam empire wide, we have a tad bit of production:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21848ProductionGraph0000.jpg

When your production looks like that, a domination victory is not far behind!

1850-Reject Toku's demand. He's pretty demanding for an extremely backwards vassal.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21850TokuDemand0000.jpg

1852-Finish medicine, start flight (for empire-wide airport spam to support intercontinental warfare)

1854-Complete another world wonder (I always go for late-game wonders if I have a tech lead, regardless of leader; these wonders are quite strong):

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21854CristoRedentor0000.jpg

Now we can micromanage our civics to our heart's content, which to me involves only minor tweaking here and there. Still though, anarchy free! A good wonder to target for non-spiritual civs looking to cycle late-game.

1858-Complete another national wonder:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21858WS0000.jpg

Another nice infusion of gold, which always helps.

1860-Flight done, start plastics (we have some offshore oil and I want to take a shot at the 3GD)

1864-Declare war on Willem/Toku; sack Kyoto; Sake Osaka:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21864War0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21864Kyoto0000-1.jpg

1868-Also, complete Rock and Roll (the extra happiness is always useful, especially because emancipation mad faces are >5 in many of our cities):

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21868RandR0000.jpg

Red cross in London (can't hurt, might help):

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21868RedCross0000.jpg

1870-Plastics done; sack Satsuma; start Computers
1874-Sack Yokohama (I had produced another stack in the SE of my empire, which I sent via an additional navy stack to Toku's weakly-defended SE islands); sack Tokyo:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21874Yokohama0000.jpg

1876-Give in to a request from Gilga as I don't want him suddenly coming to his friends' aid; give him hit musical/hit single/sugar for dye/spice/25; sack Izumo:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21876Gilgarequest0000.jpg

1878-Sack Dorestad (I am now able to take my extra stack of tanks and start hitting the weakly-defended SE edge of Willem's empire):

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21878Dorestad0000.jpg

1880-Computers done; sack Kagoshima
1882-Toku splits from Willem, but I keep up war with each; sack Haarlem on the SE edge of Willem's empire again; Willem sacks Satsuma with a very large stack; I sack Mauryan

1884-get another GG (#6), which I settle in Oxford:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21884GG0000.jpg

1886-Retake Satsuma slaughtering Willem's huge stack in the process. This leads to a shocking development:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21886WillemCapitulation0000.jpg

Yep, Willem takes a look at my power and production graphs and looks to spare the rest of his empire. I accept and turn my sights to eliminating the Japanese civilization.

1888-Hit Singles/Hit Musicals/Sugar to Willem for Deer/Incense/Wine; Sack Nagoya

1890-Sack Nagasaki (Toku RIP); take a look at the victory conditions screen:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21890TokuRIP0000.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21890VicConditions0000.jpg

Very close now. I decide to build gold empire-wide, crank the culture slider to 100% and swap into free speech:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21890FreeSpeech0000.jpg

1 turn later:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE21892DominationVictory0001.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/futurehermit/SE2FinalScore0000.jpg

Final Thoughts:

A subpar early empire in terms of land kind of delayed my plans of early conquest, but once things got rolling Churchill and Gandhi fell to my early guns. It was a fair slog though clearing my continent. By the time it was over, Toku had vassaled to Willem and Willem gifted Toku a bunch of military tech that led me to believe that going the mass-production of industrial units was a better strategy than slamming a bunch of renaissance units into protective/aggressive Toku. I don't know if it was necessary, but at least it showed off the benefits of transitioning into a late-game hammer economy. No shortage of production this game, that is for sure.

Keeping the peace with Willem and Gilga and staying in a fake war with Willem against Toku kept things very, very stable for me diplo-wise. I never had to fear any kind of invasion. When I invaded Willem and Toku, I had to trust that Gilga (pleased) would not betray me. My power graph may have had something to do with that as well. At any rate, Gilga remained docile and I was able to put a lick on Toku and take down Willem in the process.

I should mention as well that before I invaded overseas, I upgraded a small stack of catas to cannons and the majority of my rifles to infantry. I had accumulated > 2000 gold, which I put toward these upgrades. It definitely paid dividends in my later war efforts. In addition to these troops I also produced tanks and bombers, which is my preferred method of late-game warfare. In the modern era, this becomes modern armor and stealth bombers. Very quick conquering if you have enough units.

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

What do you think is better for the SE Industrious or Philosophical ?

What do you think is better for the SE Industrious or Philosophical ?

I think they are both quite strong, but just cater to different strategies or versions of an SE. Industrious involves wonderspamming for a lot of your, especially early, gpp. Pyramids enables early representation, which is huge for your early economy. Nabbing GL, Pyamids, Parthenon, NE, as well as warmongering wonders, much earlier/easier can pay major dividends.

However, with philosophical you get faster and more pure gpp from running a lot of specialists. Usually this means swimming in early GSs, which are a more direct help for bulbing up the liberalism tree. To the extent that wonders are harder to get at higher levels and bulbing and trading is much more powerful, I would say philosophical > industrious as you go up in skill level. On the lower levels, where the AI techs poorly, if philosophical, it is important to settle those GSs because you are going to be teching the majority of the tech tree yourself.

I would say that any combination of creative/philosophical/industrious/spiritual will enable a strong SE. So, to me that means the premiere SE leaders (not taking into account UBs) are:

Ramesses
Pericles
Louis (cre/ind)
Hatty (cre/spi)
Gandhi (phi/spi)

However, any non-financial leader that has at least one of these traits can run a nice SE as well.

Can you showcase an SE with Washington who has neither an early UU/UB nor one of those traits .
Thanks for the reply

What did you empire look like after you drafted the 25 or so rifles? Did you take 3 from each city?

Very Nice Writeup!

:goodjob:

you probably noticed but little bonus about Greece is that Hit Singles give you +2 :) if you have Odeon's built everywhere.

It was nice to see how powerful specialists can be without the Mids. Though I have a feeling PHI's GPP bonus really made up for lacking Mids.

For my next game I was going to try out a dedicated SE in light things learned from your walkthroughs. (I usually "play the map" but that usually involves cottaging and I want to get better at managing specialist).

I'm going to play as either Peter (PHI/EXP) or Fred (PHI/ORG).

Any thoughts on these two? I wanted to play a leader with a late UU/UB.

Peter probably starts stronger with EXP, but Fred gets stronger later in the game with higher civic costs mounting.

Can you showcase an SE with Washington who has neither an early UU/UB nor one of those traits .
Thanks for the reply

Hmm...yes, Washington might be a good candidate for my final game, although I am not sure the community will think he is a "weak" leader. I will give it some thought.

What did you empire look like after you drafted the 25 or so rifles? Did you take 3 from each city?

The first phase of rifle drafting was around 40 rifles. I drafted 1/turn from the GT and distributed the rest across my mainland cities. This meant that each mainland city had drafted 2-3 times for 6-9 :mad: I had to deal with some :mad: -intensive cities for awhile because I could not crank the culture slider as high as I might've liked because my economy was on life support. But, in the end, it didn't really hurt me. Things would've been nicer if I had better and more land early on to draft from, but it turned out ok.

Very Nice Writeup!



you probably noticed but little bonus about Greece is that Hit Singles give you +2 if you have Odeon's built everywhere.

It was nice to see how powerful specialists can be without the Mids. Though I have a feeling PHI's GPP bonus really made up for lacking Mids.

For my next game I was going to try out a dedicated SE in light things learned from your walkthroughs. (I usually "play the map" but that usually involves cottaging and I want to get better at managing specialist).

I'm going to play as either Peter (PHI/EXP) or Fred (PHI/ORG).

Any thoughts on these two? I wanted to play a leader with a late UU/UB.

Peter probably starts stronger with EXP, but Fred gets stronger later in the game with higher civic costs mounting.

Thanks! Actually, I totally forgot about the Odeon bonus. Can I say now that I totally planned to take advantage of it? :lol: PHI's GPP bonus does make up for the Mids. Phi with stone for mids is astonishing, really.

Peter is a good leader for running a SE. Assuming you don't win the game before his UB becomes available, it really is a stellar UB for running a late-game SE. A SE-based space race is not a bad idea for Peter. Fred is awesome imo. Tanks and bombers are my preferred endgame strategy and the Panzer is an enhanced tank. Of course, it is arguably overkill by that point, but it is still fun. Phi/Org is a powerful SE-warmongering combo. I can't think of a leader who benefits more from early CoL, making an oracle-CoL strategy not a bad gambit with him. His UB is really great for heavy GE abuse in the industrial era making him a good candidate also for consistently getting Mining Inc for the enhanced production. Assuming you can easily generate a GM at some point as well, he is a good candidate for going the Sushi/Mining route and staying in mercantilism (or free market if necessary) like I was planning on doing, but didn't really get around to, in the Ramesses game. With Sushi/Mining, an empire full of farms and mines, and panzers this guy is a prime candidate for closing out a domination victory in the industrial era.

Washington is actually quite strong due to Charismatic and Expansive the two traits actually required for the SE as they raise health/happy caps which we need as we just farm over most of the tiles to run Specialists
So then Charlemagne (Pro/Imp)

I loved the fact that the great light house was only build at 780 AD!!!! And that you didn't 1 turn researched currency since you were bleeding gold like mad in 1080. Were others civs so close to liberalism?? With currency you could have boosted the research propably a bit.

Other then that crazy good game. Impressive and would like to see more again Futurehermit.

Yeah, for some reason I don't prioritize currency as much when I run a SE. As long as I have access to caste system, I know that I can keep my economy rolling. The other civs weren't close to liberalism, but I have GSs coming out my ears, so I figured I would just bulb up the liberalism path and keep heading toward rifling. I knew I needed rifling sooner than later because I didn't have very many strong drafting cities, so it would be harder to raise an army quickly without suffering a lot of :mad:

I honestly don't know what's up with the monarch AI. I swear that before BTS the monarch AI was a lot better at this game :lol: The barbs also seem less severe on BTS. But maybe I have just improved a lot too, I dunno.

So then Charlemagne (Pro/Imp)

I was thinking about Charly, but in the pregame thread we settled on Toku and I will probably play Charly as the weak leader in the CE walkthrough if I do it.

Your talk of cycling civics and in general civic discussions has been very helpful. I also like the occasional tech and overall strategy talk with world view pics.
It seems I must start taking notes in my games.


1. Do you put overlays and labels for cities everywhere in your offline games?
2. I've never bulbed techs early and expected you to simply settle everything. Are there other factors that lead to you to bulbing or was passing on the Mids the sole reason?
3. Did you consider Vassalizing Churchill/Ghandi and maybe shortening your war? Can you talk about that choice?
4. How would this game have differed if you were trying for a different VC, like maybe Space Race or Conquest (would you still settle the fringes)? At which point would you have played things differently?

I can't wait to see a CE (FEUSS??) and maybe a TRE walkthrough if you have the interest. Guides are nice but walkthroughs seem to be more tangible.

Thanks!

1. I put labels usually. I used to draw BFCs, but now I can visualize them without drawing them. The odd time I will still draw them if I have a complicated map to settle.

2. Bulbing vs. settling depends on whether you are gunning for a short term tech lead or a long term tech pace goal. Usually when I go dom, I'll bulb and if I go space I'll settle. Pyramids does make settling more attractive. Bulbing is better as you increase the skill level imo. On monarch it can go either way.

3. Usually I prefer to conquer my whole continent where warfare is easier and then vassal on the other continent where warfare is more difficult. If you vassal on your own continent then you need a larger % of the land overseas for dom vic.

4. If going space no need to conquer overseas or settle marginal cities. Just get 20-30 good cities on my continent and settle great people. Settle in PARCS eventually and run max scientists everywhere. Build some strong production cities to build spaceship parts. Beeline labs then aluminum then apollo then spaceship part techs.

I am into FO3 at the moment, but plan to get back to these guides once I return to civ4, which always happens :)

Nice guide, helps new players become a better players.

I just played a similar game on monarch. It surprises me how you play several wars with the same unit type (rifle). In my game I met Toku's scout on second turn which forced me to kill him in formally defensive catapult war. The next war against WvO and his vassal Nappy was with mass drafted rifles. (the sharp rise in power graph was as good as yours. I vassalized them but since the other continent traded with WvO and among themselves they were ahead of me so I delayed the conquest of the other continent until jet fighters. At the end my NE city size was 32 (could be more with future tech. I switched to vassalage as I was hammer heavy by than. And my Oxford city had 8 settled GS and I spent 4 or 5 on 2 academies GA and bulbing. Pericles is a great leader.

Futurehermit, when is it advantageous to fight several wars with the same rifles?

The rifling window is usually pretty long, as long as you get there first. Grens are the first problem, but can be overcome by adding enough cannons, as well as cavalry (just add military tradition and horses). The main problem is the AI getting its own rifles (can be solved by mass cannons) and, especially, when the AI hits infantry.

The key is to bulb through liberalism in a timely manner, then using the GA from the Taj and hopefully another from the free GArt from first to Music to get to rifling while the AI still only has longbows. From there, it is just a matter of having >1 AIs on your landmass that have not reached renaissance military tech.

For overseas conquering I prefer to wait until the industrial era for tanks/bombers, fighters/carriers, transports/battleships, marines, machine guns, and--especially--airports!

Grens are only really a problem when attacking your riflemen, as they get a massive attack bonus

Yeah, I just mean that they are the first source of potential threat, really.

Actually, the Cannon window is longer - you can get it faster than Rifling and the Cannon window lasts all the way through Riflemen.

For warring, Cannon are my preferred tech approach after Lib because the same techs that unlock Cannon also unlock Muskets - you can start drafting earlier and launch your Cannon stacks faster than if you waited for Rifles, though in this game there was really no rush.

The other reason I prefer to go with Cannons is also because they reduce Castles and similar fortifications to rubble very fast - much faster than Trebs. It is, IMO, the coward's approach to the Renaissance war at tech advantage. Rifles are for the brave.

The cannon window is indeed longer. It is very powerful when you have sufficient production. When I have low production, however, I prefer to go the rifling route because you can draft a very large army in a very short time even with very little empire-wide production.

When I have SE with pyramids and predictable neighbors I prefer to go for Biology as biology gives great boost to your everything. This way though I could not take out more than one opponent with rifles.