Welcome to the 39th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

For the 39th game in BTS the chosen leader was Saladin of the Arabs:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0079.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0080.jpg
Well, I can definitely hear some people groaning about using Saladin, given that neither him or his civ are universally loved in here. Saladin is Spi/Pro and has a library that can hire priests and a resourcessless knight, none of them being in the top of the preferences in any of the poll threads ( well, maybe except Spi, but his popularity dropped a lot since the launch of BtS ( I really can't explain why, since the trait is virtually untouched by it self ) ). The starting techs are maybe not of the agreement of everyone ( Wheel is probably OK by most ppl, but there are some Mysticism haters... the lack of a food tech doesn't help )

Well, the fact is that the Arabian civ was designed to go religious. Not sure if going that way in isolation is a good idea, but if you want to go that way, you start with myst and you'll probably will not have problems in getting prophets ;) The UU.... well, they will probably not enter in action :/

His UU
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0081.jpg
The camel archer ( that is not a archery unit BtW :p ) is a knight that doesn't need horses to be built ( Firaxis should assume that camels are easy to find everywhere ;) ) and that has a inherent withdrawn ability. They can be very versatile in medieval warfare due to the later , but well, medieval warfare is not the usual feature of a LHC .... maybe some flanking II camel archers can go with more modern units, but besides that, they'll probably have a very quiet game in here

His UB
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0082.jpg
The madrassa is a library that gives 4 :culture: instead of 2 and that has 2 priest slots adding to the regular 2 scientist ones. Well, regardless of loving or not priests specialists, the fact is that the buildings that give 4 specialist slots are very rare in Civ IV, so this is a interesting asset to have ( the problem of feeding 4 specs in the early game may hinder the full use of this of course )

The start (Thanks to DanF for the solution of the unit change of place ;) .... The warrior/scout should appear always in the same place from now on, really :p ):
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0078.jpg
The best word I can come with this start is "uninspiring". Ok, it has riverside tiles, cows and phants and FPs... but it is not a great start. The good part is that there is some hills to the south and extra FP to the north ( and a pig SW ).

Regarding the saves ( if you're using DanF change to the WB files load, skip this ): given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.

Any problem PM me...


P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 and 3.17 if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p And as WB saves are no more than text files and Vanilla and Warlords WB are almost equal, you can play this if you exchange the non-Vanilla ( or non-warlords ) stuff ( in here it will be only leaders and civs eventually )

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)

Even when it's Saladin we're playing I'm still going to try on Immortal (even though Emperor with bad leaders has not always been successful as of lately, eh Rolo?).

Start looks good, though. Ellies, FP, and good food.

1W for pig is pretty tempting since we don't even lose a turn for that. Losing a FP for a pig is a huge short-run yield...

Rolo, i can't open the immortal and monarch saves, not checked the Noble

Really? It worked OK in here.....

After a while lurking I will probably try this one. Though it is isolated and with Saladin, not sure if I go Noble or Prince...


As always, cultural victory is the way to go for me heh...

Tried the monarch save just now and had no problems.

Arlborn-I've learned, when in doubt, go with the tougher challenge. Besides on noble it'll be too easy to just whore all the religions.

KingMorgan, I downloaded the posted saves and they are working OK to me

I find it wierd.... so lets go by steps:
-The downloaded file has 52,7 Kb?
-The saves inside it have 371-372 Kb ( Immortal save is a little bigger )?
-After extraction, they show the BtS save logo?
-Have you tried to load them via "play scenario" in game, after dumping them in the Public maps or in the Worlbuilder saves folder?
-If all of the above are positive , what error message it displays ( if any ) ?
-( last resort ) Are you using any modding that alters the way WB files are loaded?

Prince/Epic Checkpoint one:


Settled Mecca 1W

3200bc got Herbalist event

got 341 gold from huts

Techpath: poly(got Hindu), hunting, AH, mining, BW, Ag

Stonehenge built 2225bc

Island Explored

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

Mecca

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

Wouldn't saladin be decent for a cultural victory in an isolated start? Chances are there will be marble and/or stone somewhere on the island, build some important wonders, get to drama, and let the culture flow in. Granted the madrassa doesn't necessarily help with Great artists, but the extra culture from the building isn't bad.

Especially if you get the madrassa up quick. 1000 years doubles the culture, so if you can have 3 up in your 3 cities by 1000 BC, then they'll be pumping out 16 culture by 1000 AD, pre-bonuses.

Edit, i rebooted and hey presto, it works. Sorry to be a pain ;)

I opened the immortal save and it's working ok on my end (I'm actually around checkpoint 3).

Spritual (cheap temples) + Mysticism (maybe early religions and Stonehenge) + Madrassa sure sounds like a cultural approach to me, and Great Prophets may pollute the GA gene pool but they can also bulb some religions. Camel Archers may be more useful than first appears: you need a bit of military power by the time the AIs show up lest they deem you too wimpy, so about the time Guilds roll around the UU might turn out to be reasonable.

Why start 1W instead of 1S? both get the pigs, and 1S leaves a grassland tile free for cottaging.

I want to finish NC 21 (Ragnar) and GOTM 39 before I start this one, so I hope some of you hang around long enough to give some feedback!

Checkpoint 2 done, I'll report later.

Now I regret not trying a cultural game. Founded 2 religions, cheap temples and very easy rivals. Only Montezuma declares at pleased, and Justi vassaled him in my game. Could've gone with no military at all to the end of the game.

Looks like a priest economy for this one. I'd play it, but my Warlords is broke.

I'm thinking it may be fun to try for diplo win here (obviously no clue what may happen though... culture/space is good too). Seems like a nice challenging game, good luck to everyone. I'm in at Immortal/epic, will have the first checkpoint tonight hopefully :)

Looks like a priest economy for this one. I'd play it, but my Warlords is broke.
Can't play vanilla? ;)

Immortal/Normal no events all else default.

Check 1 - 1 AD

Settled 1W. AH then mining/archers. Pottery/writing/monarchy/currency/CS zzzzzzzzzzzz standard opening for me.

Here we are at 1 AD.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/lhc%20saladin/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

Baghdad Najran and Mecca are commerce cities. Running some scientists off the fish city and everything else on this island is gonna be hammers.

Check 2/3 - Up to around 1700 AD

Filled out the island. I was slow on lib but not like the time I got it past 1400. This was more of a coin flip time on immortal.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/lhc%20saladin/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

After meeting the AIs and trading around a bit I seem to still be behind but nothing serious.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/lhc%20saladin/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

Here's the empire.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/lhc%20saladin/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

Looking at the VC, nobody is too far into culture yet. Only Joao has physics and I have a GS that can bulb part of that. I opt to switch hard to late culture, and I have an edge:

[Ihttp://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/lhc%20saladin/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

Check 4 - 1941 AD

Well I get 3 sets of religions spread around for temples, and thus 3 cathedrals in each cottage city. I lose the 1st modern culture wonder but get the other two. So, we're looking at sushi, FS, broadcast towers, 3 cathedrals, 1 modern wonder each in 2 of the cities other than the cap, and hermitage in the weaker coastal city. I spread sushi to the lesser AI so they spread it around and make me money - the HQ was worth 84 GPT before modifiers. Sick.

Joao fights monty a bit more and caps him. Somehow, get gets 3 space techs in the space of 10 turns, and

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/lhc%20saladin/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg

I only have about 15 cavalry in one city (stopped making them for wealth once I knew I was safe diplo wise). I actually could have made infantry and metal navy - electricity and radio trade very well. I was a little appalled at the speed at which he completed 5 casings after teching composites last. I mean, he teched composites and launched the ship inside 5 turns! What the hell!

...but, it didn't matter.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/lhc%20saladin/1941oopsIwin0000.jpg

Because when he launched, I had 3 turns for my 3rd city to go legendary :p.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk134/themelnteam/lhc%20saladin/stats0001.jpg

Yes. I really *did* pursue that VC. I'm not sure I believe it myself :blush:.

Signing up for another round on LHC :love:

Emperor, Monarch save. This game, I've done the 'no cottages' thing last game, this game I'm going to try wall street cottaged.

seriously thinking of moving the setter 1 north to claim the 3rd floodplain and make it my Science center with farmed floodplains.

It give up 2 hills, but won't need production. Priest Economy, with 3 from Angkor Wat, 2 From Madrassa and 1/Temple (assume Philosophy) that's 6 specialists 12 hammers and 18 beakers. Settled Great Priests give gold as well :wow:

As well, I think I'll move the capital to my wall street city (middle of empire) to Run Bureaucracy and the 50% bonus to cottages there.

Anyway all subject to map/conditions.

Oh yes ROLO Mr 'Soft chewy caramel centre' Its CHOSEN (ty TMIT :mad: ) not Choosed. If I've told you once I've now told you twice.

OLE` R Rolo.

Signing up for another round on LHC :love:

Emperor, Monarch save. This game, I've done the 'no cottages' thing last game, this game I'm going to try wall street cottaged.

seriously thinking of moving the setter 1 north to claim the 3rd floodplain and make it my Science center with farmed floodplains.

It give up 2 hills, but won't need production. Priest Economy, with 3 from Angkor Wat, 2 From Madrassa and 1/Temple (assume Philosophy) that's 6 specialists 12 hammers and 18 beakers. Settled Great Priests give gold as well :wow:

As well, I think I'll move the capital to my wall street city (middle of empire) to Run Bureaucracy and the 50% bonus to cottages there.

Anyway all subject to map/conditions.

Oh yes ROLO Mr 'Soft chewy caramel centre' Its CHOSSEN not Choosed. I'f I've told you once I;ve now told you twice.

OLE` R Rolo.

If you're going to correct spelling, you should spell the word correctly yourself :p. In this case, you're looking for "chosen".

Is there a link to explain the basics of how to work a "priest economy"? I understand some basic mechanisms (using priest specialists gives some bonuses plus generates GP GPP), but the strategy of it eludes me.

Is there a link to explain the basics of how to work a "priest economy"? I understand some basic mechanisms (using priest specialists gives some bonuses plus generates GP GPP), but the strategy of it eludes me.

Subset of PARCS/SE. Try to get a few religions, use temples to run priests, build "anger what" to improve your normal priest specs. Shrine or settle based on what you feel is best.

I would probably still advocate something to take advantage of these bells and whistles, such a representation from pyramids or a commerce capitol. The former allows your priests to also contribute research, the latter because the gold from all the priests will carry your slider higher than normal.

I've never actually tried it, but that's my understanding of how it functions.

Can't play vanilla? ;)

I can, but where's the fun in that? No UBs, different traits, no vassals.

Checkpoint 1.5 (Imm/Epic, diplo vic?)... a bit past checkpoint one but no contact yet.


Quite a decent start overall, we have a significant amount of land on this island. I'll let the screenshots tell the story and narrate along. Tech was AH>BW>Pottery>Writing>Math>Monarchy up to this point (others fill in too)

Early hut map and start
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Salearlymap0000.jpg

I got BW partly from a hut (in the middle of researching)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/SalyayNimoy0000.jpg

A bonus to my axes
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Salaxes0000.jpg

However.... the only barb threat I ever had was this spear, which killed one warrior in Damascus (slaved another). Never saw a barb axe myself ;)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/sal-crud0000.jpg

BIG, BIG CHANGES TO MY LONG TERM PLANS
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/SalPathetic0000.jpg
Some impovershed afton took my spot! So now my plans for a diplomatic victory have to be modified to take whomever this is out. I'm just going to assume it's one of these targets, if they're around: Tokuwaga, Monty, Shaka, Izzy, Cyrus, Hatty (if Cyrus is around, y'know the whole "torture his lover first to make him beg for mercy"). Course I hate Mansa, Asoka/Gandhi too, but in my heart of hearts I know it's not them at the bottom of the list, so I have to be diplomatic.

However, I did take back my rightful place:
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/SalHopelssagain0000.jpg

Turn 100 overview
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal100overview0000.jpg

Development proceeds pretty well, a barb city pops up. I have a really annoying slave event in my capital - it kept on continuing and so I lost three turns (then I chose to lose the 1 pop anyway...also delayed a settler :()
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Salslave0000.jpg

I take the barb city, the gold is nice too, and it's basically the same spot I would have settled (first assault failed though, I lost 3 axes at 61% so regroup was needed)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Salbarbcity0000.jpg

Turn 150 Overview - solid empire, Earthling the Hopeless is ready to go out and meet the world pretty soon!
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/SalCheckpoint150000.jpg



Edit: @ mirthadir: Oh, it's on, and for a real diplo win at that! Congratulations though.

Check point 1, Monarach save, Emperor, Marathon

Another lonely journey of a Civilization that has been forgotten by the gods. I start by moving the Warrior to the NE of the settler to reveal what I get by moving 1 north. I also moved the setter 1 NW first.

I uncover TWO MORE flood plains, then seeing I now have 6 floodplains, I move back 1 east.:woohoo: Super Science City is Founded.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%201/SSC.jpg

Overpowered with floodplain, struggle for health, maybe, but ill health cost only 1 food, farmed floodplains, give 2 food, its Happy I'll struggle with.

Hmm moving 1 NE I could have had 8 floodplains, just great for running specialists. I already have -2 from floodplains. My warrior continues to scout about the Island.

Borders popped the hut for 129 gold, not bad. Finish hunting, start Agriculture. My warrior runs into a lion and I get in 1 hit at 78% :gripe:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%201/1hit.jpg


Agriculture-> Hunting-> Archery Not enough tree's/hills for mining/bronze working at moment.

Pop hut for 135 gold, rather a tech. 3rd hut pops for a 2nd scout, animal husbandry in, Archery next, Hinduism founded in 3100 BC, rather late, no spiritual civ, or a spiritual civ's just got 2 religions.

4th hut, FINALLY pops for a tech,
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%201/mining.jpg

I've mapped out all the main land, 1 off shore island to explore, 12 cities planned, subject to change with Bronze working/ Iron working. Couple happy resources, health, MOUNTAIN RANGE in middle of Map where I'd like my Capital/wall street/ Bureaucracy capital.

Plan: Settle up to 12 cities, Madrassa in all/most. Colonize off shore island, Starting city is Super Science Centre.

Haven't got the Health event, Now is when I'd like it the most.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%201/12cities.jpg



And we carry on to Check point 2.

Normal speed/immort 1740 Diplo win-


Saladin one of the poster boys for insanely early AP diplo win.

Well start looks good, but 1 W gets me pigs so I'm headed there. Wheel and Myst as starting techs dictate not going for worker first build order so I start on SH and researching Poly.

I snag Hinduism in 3520, stop SH get out a worker, and then get SH in 2240.

Huts yielded ~70 cash and a scout.

Tech order has been Poly -> ag -> AH -> mining.

After I've gotten SH I send a settler off to the SE to found Medina at the pigs/horse location closest to Mecca. This allows me to use that as a pop 3 city to send out other settlers while the cap gets its second wonder: Oracle in 950 BC. Settlers are sent to the rice/pigs/ivory/wine spot and to the whale/fish/horse/Ag spot (Baghdad).

Tech order has been pottery -> BW -> writing (partial) -> MC (Oracle) -> writing -> fishing.

At this point I'm pretty committed to religious victory, though culture is viable with 3 madrassas pre 1000 BC (thanks to whippage). Saladin can now get 10 GPrP/turn in the cap so I feel save Shrining Mecca as tech is slowing for the next leg of masonry -> mono -> meditation. All told my second GPr comes 2 turns after I finish meditation. Bulb theo (founding Christianity in 250BC in Baghdad) and start work on the AP. Things are looking good for an early AP win.

Cities are founded at marble/fish/crab (production cite with Maori) and on the sheep/crab/fish island spot. Medina finishes the Colossus which was more being build for failure cash, but hey I can work completion. Wonder dates and GG spawns suggest few war mongers and no IND ais.

Tech is now monarchy for the civic and wine and then solid bottom path to optics (IW -> compass -> machinery -> optics). My first GSc goes into an academy in the cap which has been heavily cottaged and my 3rd GPr bulbs CoL so I can spam courthouses; the 4th GPr, later, will shrine Baghdad. Overall I've been running solid OR and HR and slavery every 5-10 turns. I found cities at the whale/pigs on the river, the Fish/Whale and lastly on the wine/wine hill.

In prep for optics I have three triremes and gold on hand for instant upgrades. 3 Christian Missionaries are standing by to board and go off with the explorers. The danger of shrining early when going for an AP win, all my cities get a religion before I can meet the AI and get theirs. C'est le vie.

Optics rolls in I send ship SW, one zigzagging east in the north, and one SE; the same turn I revolt to caste/NSR. SE finds SB; he is terribly backward, but didn't found Confuncianism. Either he is alone or most likely alone with other other friendly civ; I trade him compass/machinery for lots of top backfill, most importantly : currency. I use my missionary on his first city (which kindly has no religion) and then queue up another missionary in the cap to get into the waiting caravel 4 tiles away. I meet Justinian at sea; Buddhist founder with a favored civic I can run. I have to trade my map for his but he reveals Monty - Buddhist, Jao (Judaism founder), and Wang (Buddhist). Jao has also taken some Aztec territory with a full BFC, which suggests vassalhood. I open borders and gift my missionary to Justinian ASAP; the next missionary heads east to go to Wang and the next in the queue is going to Portugal (who is only 3 tiles from the east coast). My northern caravel has headed south to find the Confuncism founder.

Meeting Wang and Joa confirms that I'm a big tech hole; I don't care. I'm in caste/HR/Theo with NSR only Monty might declare there. I convert one small northern Korean city and gift a missionary to Jao. Due to AI decisions about where to use their gifts I start to Christianize my cities (I want just enough religion spread to win with only one AI voting for me, but not enough to call the whole thing off). I finally find Washington, give him theo for some more backfill and eventually convert a 4 pop civ from monty.

Unfortunately Washington managed to become Justinian's Worst Enemy in the few turns between finding Justinian (who did not know him) and me trading. I should have noticed the warning, but didn't when I first checked. Justinian wins Lib in 1250.

So I have everything set up for a nice AP win, and hold the first vote to see who will vote for me (everyone but Monty for the general election itself, and no one for the game winning one). Now it is just a question of raising a few AIs to friendly. I opt to try hardest with the Confucians, even though they have the worst civics (barring Monty). Wang may go Eman before I can get him to friendly, Justinian and Jao are pretty far ahead techwise so getting to +4 trade will not be trivial.

I tech out Lib so I can get a DP (back trading Lib and prereqs to Washington for CS/Music/Cons/etc.) but all the AIs barring Monty and SB quickly get Mil trad making it moot. So as much as I hate losing my sea :commerce: I tech Astro and found 3 cities (filler on the rice/cap's pigs hill) filler at the wine/wine spot on the river and a city on the fish slot in the north. Now I just wait for demands - not enough come, a war - which only Jao will start and he wasn't going to for a while, or religion spread.

I tech out to steel doing a small bit of trading with Washington (SB has entered WFYABTA). Watching Hinduism spread to 2 of my 3 cities with only a rbad, no food, location at the Cu left I notice that SB is teching wierd. He, Monty and I are the only ones without eman and Monty is hopeless backward but Jao's vassal. I'm in FR (with caste, HR, FS, and merc) with 4 :) from religion and buying luxury resources in bulk with mass chariot spam in HR. If I get to cannons vs LBs/muskets with him I'm just going to cap him with cannon, convert his cities, and gift them back. If not I intend to go take the three barb islands and tech out to a CorpE and make a run at culture/internet based space.

I get steel and start massing cannon/maces/muskets when I get Confucian spread to my last filler city. I revolt to OR/Confucian and eventually get into a DP pact with Washington. A galleon leaves to convert the heathen Americans (even if I'm running their state religion) to fully convert the three remaining cities toThe One True Christian Faith. I get 2 out of 3 and wait for the election to be called. Jao declares (and I have to confess I didn't see that coming. Muskets vs infantry will be tight (in two turns I will have MGs so I should be good), but my filler rice city is taken for the loss of a warrior.

Next turn I have a large SoD outside of Mecca (but with a dozen odd cannons to nerf it) and the World acclaims me rightful religious ruler in 1740.

Mistakes Made:
1. I settled in poor order. I wanted to close off the borders to prevent having to quick settle when the AIs get Astro. However the Wine/Wine coastal hill location should have waited and I should have settled the interior sooner.
2. Not taking down SB earlier. Trebs, Jumbos, and Xbows would have capped him quick if I had just gone straight for the jugular with Astro. I could have had a vassal voting for me hundreds of years sooner.
3. Not barb farming to open HE. I keep doing this whenever I deal with barbs on the cheap. Two woody warriors did great on anti barb duty and I should have let a barb city spawn in the NE so I could unlock the HE off it. I had planned to go galley farming, but that is so much less reliable.
4. Not checking on Jao and Justinian's diplomacy all the time when I flipped to Confucianism.

Subset of PARCS/SE. Try to get a few religions, use temples to run priests, build "anger what" to improve your normal priest specs. Shrine or settle based on what you feel is best.

I would probably still advocate something to take advantage of these bells and whistles, such a representation from pyramids or a commerce capitol. The former allows your priests to also contribute research, the latter because the gold from all the priests will carry your slider higher than normal.

I've never actually tried it, but that's my understanding of how it functions.


You can also bulb the religious techs very effectively to nab theo, Philo, and DR, even out on immort. Which then allows you to make your cities very strong with 4 or so religions. You will spend lots of :hammers: on missionaries, but the long term return off 4 gold/city is rather high; much higher if you can double or triple up for WS which is relatively easy with a CoL Oracle shot for Saladin. Found one city before the Oracle is done in the cap, take CoL (Confucianism founds in 2nd city), use spread that to the cap, use the first GPr to get Christianity in in the same location, and with the Arabs you can pretty easily use GPr to get Philo.

Personally I vote against the commerce cap for a Priest economy. You already have massive gold being generated by the priests and most likely your cap is :hammers: heavy. If the cap has plenty of food, particularly if it is riverside, then you really want to go Rep, B, Caste, SP, and OR/Pac/FR as needed and dump in Oxford/IW.

I see...I'll have to try it sometime. I haven't seriously gone the religion route for anything except AP cheese since I was a monarch player or worse I think.

Hi

Noble, Marathon, 1315 AD, Checkpoint 1.5ish. Explored and settled my landmass and met two AI's so far.

I scooted over to get the pigs. Teched Med first to get a religion then AG Hunting AH mining bw masonry then poly and ph. Goodyhuts were pretty much all good no techs but atleast no barbies or maps either.

About the only interesting thing early on was this:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/herbevent.jpg

Mecca was still only one pop so going for the two health didnt seem all that risky. I did mange to get the resounding success but OF COURSE I also got the unhappy thing grrrr.

Anyways after that it was just settiling the place and wonderwhoring. I managed to get SH, GW, Oracle (picked MC for the tech), GLH, Col, 'Mids, HG, SoZ, Parth, GL, Uni of Sank, AP, Hagi sophia and that Shadewa thingy. Notre Dame got built b4 I could even try for it. Since it got built RIGHT after a engineer popped for someone I THINK it got rushed grrr. I also didnt get a chance at MoM but half the time I never get that one.

I also missed out on geting a religion from CoL grrr. But I did bulb theo and got AP built so I have two holy cities and both have shrines now.

Right now I am just kinda limping to Lib as my bpt seem kinda sucky at this point. I did get a GS right as I started teching edu and he bulbed it down to one turn. At about this point caravals from georgie then sb showed up and I teched out optics a lil bit later so now my caravals are out trying to come from behind to win map race while I also try to get lib race won too.

Here is my Empire right now such as it is:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/empire1315.jpg

Not sure how well I placed my cities but its all done at this point so it will have to do.

My Cap:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/Mecca1315.jpg

It been wonderwhoring just a bit hehe :P

The graphs:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/graphs1315.jpg

with only two other civs they dont tell very much at this point other than I am waaay behind SB in power.

Demos:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/demos1315.jpg

Not exactly running away with things this game pretty much at bottom or middle of pack in lots of categories :/.

Tech sitch:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/techsitch.jpg

I seem to be ahead of SB and bout even with Georgie.

As soon as I got shadow thingamijig built I switche dinto FR for diplo purposes. I also have collosuem quest and since I built SoZ I have hance to pick GA as reward if I get it. HOPEFULLY I can time it so I get quest then burn a GP for another GA and if I win lib race pick astro, then tech Nat and have Taj built during the GA's and maybe get back to back to back ga's which hopefully will help me get ahead tech wise b4 it all over. Other than that I really have NOTHING resembling ANY kind of plan for anything at this point hehe.

So I guess that it for now. Hopefully after I meet rest of AI's and get peeks at their land I will have an idea of what I should plan for.
Kaytie

Even when it's Saladin we're playing I'm still going to try on Immortal (even though Emperor with bad leaders has not always been successful as of lately, eh Rolo?).

Still thinking at that game Paulus? :lol:
I'll try culture, immortal, epic...

Cheers

Hi

Noble
Darn, I thought maybe Ai Shiz had gotten to ya...

1st thing 1st TMIT, NO LIKE A SMART A, Especially, when your trying to be one yourself :love:

:lol:, yes you got me good there, I should have checked my spelling..

Anyway, onto the report.

Check point 2

We stumble onwards to check point 2, I'm having an argument in my head, Cottage SSC for Bureaucracy, or cottage wall street with desert. :hmm: I'll let the random pops decide.



Tech's will be Pottery next, then bronze working, fishing, sailing, Masonry and build the GLH. Moai statues will be moved to NE under the Marble, as 15 sea tiles and production. The NW fish will just be fishing port/specialists.

Just great, my scout beats a lion, granted it was on a hill. I fog bust 2 city sites I want early, the Heroic Epic city to the South, and Moai statues to the NE by the Marble.

Holy crap, my woodsman 1 scout beats a Bear, granted he was fortified on a wooded hill. Woodsman 2 now I suppose. Send off on Caravels if it survives that long, roading down to Heroic Epic city, this will be my Unit pump.

2330 BC I complete Stonehenge, Forests will have to stay to offset floodplains. Start a settler at pop 4, building an archer for defence, as my woodsman 2 scout has beaten 1 barb warrior already.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/stonehenge.jpg

here's a neat trick for new players, build your archer to 1 turn, then complete a barracks. If attacked, archer in 1 turn, build barracks for City garrison 1 promotion. Granted were Protective, but every little bit helps.

1700 BC 3 Barb warriors lemming my capital, build settler for Heroic epic city, and the Great Lighthouse, I've forgone the Oracle.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/barbleming.jpg

My defending archer, defeats all 3 barb warriors, without a scratch to speak of, city garrison 3 now taken. Heroic Epic is opened up.

1500 BC Temple of Artemis is BIADL?? WTF..Someones' industrious with Marble. My archer at Heroic Epic, got to Guerrilla 2.

1200 BC I Finally get the Health Event, the result of which was

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/Healthevent.jpg

-2 unhappy, that's a given, NO FATALITIES...and +2 Health

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/Results.jpg




Oracle was built in 1300 BC, they took Theology and founded Christianity with it.

800 BC I miss the Great Lighthouse, I should have gone Lighthouse first, and not Granary. At least I cashed in on attempt.

Attacking the Barb city of Scythian, with 6 Chariots, the first one WIN'S :wow:, the 2nd withdraws, OMFG, and the 3rd
Loses,
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/attackbarbcity.jpg

the 4th cleans that archer up, leaving only the 0.8 from the withdrawal. 1 extra city, 1 extra worker, :goodjob:



Oh, I messed up on planting my northern city, I went next to the silver, and not on the tundra hill, to get fish and Whale, invalidating both for any other city. Oh well, we all make mistakes.

150 AD- The Parthenon was built in 120 AD, and I've just got my 1st Great Scientist, I'll, merge into city as I'm only getting 7 beakers at moment, and that's worth 6 Beakers, + 1 Hammer.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/MergeGreatScientist.jpg

This boosted my science by 8 beakers and not 6 as I expected.

915 AD- I've just switched to Slavery to whip out court houses, I'm losing 18 gold at 0%, I've missed the Great Library by 5, I could have whipped and missed again. Missed the Parthenon, Shwedagon Pagoda, Taoism was founded overseas. I'm doing crappy, the last win I got went to my head. I've moved my capital to Wall Street city, SSC is building farms, and I've only just realised Monarchy would solve my Unhappy needs, as I have excess health. Not playing very smart.

960 AD- I meet the founder of Confucianism.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/Georgieboy.jpg

975 AD- Georgie boy circles the globe and I get notified about another Civ I haven't met as yet.


1055 AD- I've only just gotten Monarchy, that's how badly I'm doing, as I only know them and they knows others. I'm just going to have to pull it out slowly if at all. I revolt to Hereditary rule and Caste system, to get my research going again.

1290 AD- I only now realise I should have gone for a cultural win. I was first to Literature, Music's Artist didn't go for another couple hundred years. The discussion on Madrassa's and doubling in Culture, should have put me on that path. I'm not playing well at all. I've decided to beeline Astronomy, and I'll have to trade it about to get back into tech race.

1295 AD- I have Christianity spread to me, and I haven't even met the other idiots as yet, that's including me. So Astronomy's out there it seems. This rant usually brings them on.

1300 AD- Its worked, I've just met,
Wang Kon
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/WangKon.jpg

1350 AD- A very busy year I meet 3 Civ's all at once, and I get Judaism spread to 2 cities as well that turn.

They were in order of meeting;

An absolute monster in score, 3 times me nearly, Jewish Founder
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/Joao.jpg

Justinian is a Hindu http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/Justinian.jpg

who's the Vassal of

Montezuma, no shot, Monties a Buddhist, I'm sure know what he looks like, had Construction on me, I've got Compass on him, and a few other techs I think.

And last but not least of all, is......

I'll come to that later

1386 AD- I don't believe it, Wang Kon, is the first to discover Liberalism?? WTF, Georgie boy, was going for Education with 12 turn's back in the 900's AD, I just didn't give it a 2nd thought. He could research steel and such, now going for Constitution.

1404 AD- After using the Protective abuse of Whipping walls, pity no stone available, to make money, I switch back to caste system and get my research back on track.

Religions spread so far are Judaism, Confucianism, and Christianity. I've opened boarders with all, hoping for more religions.

1482 AD- I meet the last Candidate,

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%202/Sittingbull.jpg
,

well Duh!!!. I knew that when I met Washington.





And so ends Check point 2, onto to check point 3


Check point 3

Here all ready.

Its CULTURAL

I have 3 religions, no tech, no real hope, that or try an Apostolic Palace Revolution, as Joao, controls it and is in Free Religion. I'll try that 2

Prince/Epic Checkpoint 2:

880AD
Techpath: finished ag, pottery, archery, priesthood, writing, fishing, sailing, metal casting(Oracle), monarchy, masonry, IW, Machinery, Compass, Optics, (several trades)

1975bc settled Medina

1600bc settled Damascus

1000bc Built Oracle

700bc GP(shrine)

455bc settled Baghdad

110bc settled Najran

65bc got Classic Lit quest

85ad settled Kufah

100ad settled Basra

310ad built ToA in Mecca

745ad built SoZ in Mecca

860ad built GL in Mecca

880ad complete Classic Lit quest

all AIs met

tech:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Empire:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Mecca:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

Noble/Normal

This appears to be my first serious attempt at a religion-driven game so an isolated start should well-complicate matters. The principal early gamble is likely to revolve around barbarian "management". Move one is sending the warrior to the top of the N/E hill on a reconnaissance mission.

Emperor/epic, no barbs, to checkpoint 2:



My first LHC at Emperor with the posterboy of the "worst leader" threads.


4000 - Settle 1W to claim pigs. Saladin moving his capital to eat pig, the irony.
First tech is polytheism. I think the last time I've founded one of the two early religions was at Noble. Let's see if I get Hindu or just waste a crapload of turns.

3900 - Mining from hut.

3800 - 76 gold hut.

3550 - Success:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0000-68.jpg

3050 - 55 gold hut.

2850 - BW from hut. All with the starting warrior, not with a scout.

2325 - 123 gold from SH failure. Started late and still missed it by 3 turns only.

2125 - Medina:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0001-65.jpg

1625 - Future military city:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0002-65.jpg

1350 - I found another religion, this time in Medina:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0003-63.jpg

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0004-61.jpg

800 - Baghdad:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0005-60.jpg

385 - Jumbo event. Other options was +1 pop in Mecca and +1 :) for 40 turns:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0006-61.jpg

335 - First Prophet builds this:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0007-60.jpg

235 AD - GLib in Mecca:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0008-55.jpg

340 - Nothing to build in Medina, so I grab another wonder. Pretty fast with elephants:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0009-57.jpg

370 - Second shrine:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0010-46.jpg

415 - Najran, to work the extra floodplains:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0011-45.jpg

670 - 219 gold from Chichen Itza failure.

685 - Future Moai:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0012-39.jpg

745 - 82% GS vs 18% GP and I get another Prophet. Settled in Mecca.

860 - Basra:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0013-35.jpg

990 - Nice. Usually I get this event on garbage techs:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0014-28.jpg

1120 - Finally I get my GS and build academy in Mecca.

1280 - First AI is Sitting Bull and his vassal Washington.

1285 - Followed by Joao.

1290 - And Justinian.

1330 - GS bulbs Liberalism:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0015-26.jpg

1335 - Montezuma capitulates to Justinian.

1360 - Last AI is Wang.


Super easy diplo in this game. None of the AIs declare at pleased. Well, Montezuma does, but he is Justi's vassal. I backfilled a lot of techs trading with vassals (Washington and Monte). They don't have worst enemies and their advanced masters are going to give them free techs anyway, so why not getting something out of them.

From Montezuma alone I got archery, hbr, construction, music, monotheism, engineering and optics.


Empire at 1360, room for 4 decent cities and probably an extra filler:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0019-20.jpg

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0018-21.jpg

Techs:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0016-24.jpg

Diplo. A couple extra points with Justi and Wang and I'm 100% safe:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0017-22.jpg

Culture was the obvious way in this game, and now I regret not going that route. I think it will be another military game, starting from SB the caveman.

Prince/Epic Checkpoint 3:


1615AD

Lib in 1330AD(took Nat)

Tech Situation

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Empire:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

You can probably guess what type of victory I'm going for:trouble:

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

check point 4

This is the end, my only friend the end The doors

Apostolic Palace or Cultural :lol:, loss more like it.

I start off with 8 on optics, finish that, move onto civil service.

Here's an example of how badly I'm doing.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Joaogift.jpg

OMFG...I move onto Astronomy.

I only now just realise that I need Music, to build Culture in my cities, 11 turns, then onto Astronomy. I'm playing so badly, Building Crossbow's in Moai Statues, to keep Monty away.

1538 AD- I decide to dog pile onto Monty, as Washington and Joao are in on the act. I only want Mutual Military struggle Bonuses, as I haven't got Astronomy, so its :p to Monty. Culture is at 50%, I've virtually turned off research even now.

I've also Bulbed Philosophy with my spare Great Scientist, as I researched Meditation, I can't Bulb Astronomy, as I have Meditation.

1540 AD- Yes.....TAOISM has spread to Mecca, my 3rd cultural city, and the only one WITHOUT a religion :huh: Its Madrassa is already at 8 Culture, now spreading the 4 religions, temples and pagoda's building Culture only. I'm on my way...

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Taoismspread.jpg

1558 AD- Justinian's dead I've just noticed, must have died in last 5 turns, as was alive when I declared war. Monties Just became Joao's Vassal as well.

1580 AD- I convert to Confucianism, as Joao, and Wang, don't give negative points for that, the Apostolic Palace is out, as at the last vote Joao, had double mine, and it'd be me against him, and I don't think He'd vote for me as only pleased. Hmm maybe he would, but I didn't want Washington declaring war upon me due to religious differences. SSC has Confucianism spread to it, so I don't lose on the Pacifism bonus points.

1634 AD- I double bulb Education, mainly for the +3 Culture with Universities, combined with 200% from 4 Cathedrals that's 9/turn not even 1 Artist specialists(300%*4=12), but no food.

1686 AD- I've had 4 missionaries in a row fail to spread to my 3rd cultural city, Moai statues its 4th religion. Finally it did, and as it has the production, it can build the Pagoda's, Cathedrals etc, along with the Madrassa and University for +21 Culture, with 200% bonuses.

1762 AD- I've only now just realised that Science is better on the slider to gain Liberalism in 7 turns with 100% culture, than another 25+ turns at 50% culture. Dumb Dumb Dumb. I've still got a lot to learn it seems, or do we all make these silly mistakes.

Holy Religious Spread Batman, Taoism is being spread to my cities as the 4th Religion, via missionaries, and I couldn't do it manually 3 times in a row :gripe:

I've also had Joao, come by requesting that I cancel my deals with the VILE Korean. Looks like strife is on the cards.

I decide to cancel the defence pact with Joao, just in case, Wang is STUPID enough to attack him. I don't want to get dragged into war.

I've gone through the Civ Reference guide, a great work, and none of the remaining civ's can declare at Pleased, where I have them all Currently.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Relations.jpg

1805 AD- I get the Harbours Quest, I have 9 harbours already, I just need 4 Caravels to complete it. So I decide why not.

I achieve the Quest, and take the +1 gold from the Harbour. That's +9 gold, not factoring in the markets, etc.

1814 AD Joao comes asking ME?? for a defence pact, Who's he Afraid of, I foolishly accepted. I should go for the Apostolic palace victory?? Joao is friendly, but I can't out vote him, and I'd lose Sitting Bulls vote by going Judaism, not possible.

1829 AD- I finally got full on culture in my 3 cultural cities, 80% culture rate. I really doubt I'll make it, Joao's had one city go Legendary already, and I assume he's not even trying culture.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Culturaltry.jpg

1831 AD- and I pop a Great Engineer, normally, i'd be over the moon, popping one at low odds, but now...AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!! I launch a golden age.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/GreatEngineerpop.jpg

I can now run 100% Culture with a 1 gold Profit, :woohoo:

I've just noticed Joao, has enough on his hands, he's been friendly/pleased, but 100% can't declare at either, So Looks like either Wang or Bull's in for it. Thing is, it'll just cancel our defence pact, won't drag me into it. :faint:

OMFG I've just been notified that I'm the Wealthiest Civilization, at 315 gold :lol:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Wealthtable.jpg

1841 AD- the defence pact is cancelled by Joao, and the lucky contestant is....

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/LuckyContestant.jpg

Wang just took a -236 hit to his score..Wowwie I wonder how long it'll be before he rolls over and plays vassal, in the last game, Kublai Khan had to fully exterminate him, or was that just Khan...

KHAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1844 AD- An eventful year, 2 Great Generals are born, and I pop a Great Profit, normally I'd merge him into Wall Street, for the gold, but best to hold for a 2nd golden age, with another NON GREAT ARTIST. I want Great Artists, and I don't get them :gripe:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/ProfitPop.jpg


Again, my idiocy come to the Fore, I only NOW realise that as they all can't declare at Pleased, I don't need additional troops. I'm currently running 100% Culture at a profit of 25+ gold, as I just went around and deleted all the archers who were just happy police and left either 1 archer in each city or 1 crossbow. :faint:

I also decide to sell off all the happy resources, gold and silver in particular, and now I'm +50 in the green at 100% culture, Granted I'm in a golden age.

1846 AD- My golden age has ended, and now i'm only +17 at 100% culture, so sad, so little money available. MUAH HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA Wang came by and renegotiated our deal for pigs/13 gold to Pigs+Horses/13 gold.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/tradedeals.jpg

That's 2 techs Joao's given me now, Horseback riding he just gifted, and I thought he wanted horses..lol...I was going to give then anyway, but no, he was gifting to me, I should pay attention.

1852 AD- The United Nations was just built by Joao, and it was between him and me for General Sec, and Wang's just rolled over and played Vassal. Joao's now just a monster, he had twice the votes I did, and I had twice the next voter. Look like Joao will either roll over the rest, but he's pleased with them, or go to space I hope.

1863 AD- I have a moment of Panic, when I see out of the corner of my eye, someone BELOW pleased.

Then I notice this

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Toku.jpg

Washington's created a Vassal, and even the vassal's talk down to me.


Wang Cancels our deal for pigs+horses=13 gold, as he wanted marble and wine in addition, and I'm +15 gold in the green at 100% culture, with the forbidden palace Being built,20 turns in Damascus, as it had the Highest Expenses, along with other cities near by.

Talk about being Ripped off, they just keep birthing Great Artists overseas, and I've gotten a sum total of ZERO!!!!!! I have also just defied a vote on religions, as I wanted to keep Pacifism till I get next great person, probably shouldn't have, but oh well. Joao, can virtually vote in any resolution he wants now anyway.

1877 AD- I pop my next great person and its a

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/GreatartistatMoai.jpg

Its a GREAT ARTIST

I hold him over for bombing at the end, or another golden age if that's better, but bomb is best as Moai's lagging behind badly.


I now try to influence the next great person, coming out of Mecca, from a 44% Great Merchant, to a Great Artist, starting from 4% in 28 turns.

1881 AD- I'm told I'm the 2nd biggest civ on the planet, behind Mr Monster himself, Joao. Yeah, like I didn't know that. Joao's just begun a golden age as well, while going for space, 2 casings were just built. Rut Roh.

Hey Hey, I just begged Feudalism off Wang, mind you I only had 9 turns left. Onto Guilds now, 69 turns. Lol

1882 AD- I defy a vote on Universal Suffrage, seems Mr Joao, is looking for +1 hammers from his Towns for space race, I don't think so Mr Joao. Plus I've got plenty of happy cap at 100%. Ahh damm Toku Defied it as well, hmm but how was I to know he would. Stem headed AI's and Vassals.

1886 AD- I buy Wang's world map for 330 gold, mainly to get some external trade routes going, as I had only internal to that point. But I'm +12 at 100% culture so not really needed, but better to keep on good side of them all.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/buyworldmap.jpg

Actually I only now just realise, that it was worth 300 Culture/turn, a big boost to my 2 biggest cities, Moai statues, not so much.

1889 AD- I just completed a round of begging, cheap bastards, wouldn't give me lowly Guilds or 1/3 of their gold. :mad:

1891 AD- I pop a great Merchant out of Mecca, I tried to influence to a Great Profit, but no. I'll start a golden age with him and the priest. I culture bomb Moai statues, just in case I lose him to golden age. Joao's popped out 2 engines, thrusters and casings, looks like a loss to space based Portuguese.

1898 AD- I pop a great artist at 90%, he goes and bombs Moai statues. I've had my chain irrigated farms cut off once by global warming, what have I ever done, I get punished for Joao's Excesses. :gripe:

1903 AD- Joao's just gone into WHEOOHRN mode, at pleased with me, but I think it's either Washington or Toku he's after.

Now isn't that strange, a cautious master, who created the vassal???

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Vassal.jpg


1904 AD Joao's just launched his ship, unless one of the AI's actually takes his capital, I'm done, even then he'll have plenty of time to build a new ship and still beat me.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Joaolaunch.jpg

One of the AI's who's founded Creative Constructions, is spamming the Corp to me. Under Environmentalism, its costing me, but the culture is worth it. Finally too, one of the defying of the U.N. Has worn off, now its only -5.

1907 AD- Joao, commits a fraud on us all, and votes himself U.N. Sec Gen.

1908 AD- Joao's just built the SDI, having completed the Manhattan Project about 25 turns ago, Nuclear war is coming, and I can't stop it.

1909 AD I'd swear that Sitting bull, was helping me out, 1st he votes for me in UN Elections, now he's spread Creative Construction to my 3 Cultural cities.

1913 AD- Joao declares war on Washington and his Vassal (the reason) Toku, 1 GG is born straight away, and Washington loses a city 1st up.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Worldatwar.jpg


1917 AD- Joao the Monster, had destroyed the American Civilization, took only 8 turns to wipe George out, not too bad.

1918 Joao creates a vassal in Georges old lands, and its KHAAAAANNNNN!!!!!!
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/KHAAAAANN.jpg

See how he talks down to me, must remember Roosevelt game from last time.

I get a random event, and I was NEVER AT WAR!!!!! not even a fake one.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/WTF.jpg


1919 January- Joao, has won a space victory, and about F'n time too.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Joaowin.jpg

I was really up against it, from the 1st meeting, as he was already 3 times my score, and it just got worse and worse.

Playing badly to my victory condition didn't help. Monty probably just helped to control the others being at the opposite end of the continent.

I'd have needed another 100+ turns, I chose badly city sites, no tech aiming,and fall asleep in the dark ages, really dark for me, as I severely crashed the economy, and didn't recover from there.

Still No excuse for how I played, I played poorly and the results show it.

Emperor/epic, to 1778. Possible defeat, input appreciated:



1385 - Khurasan:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0000-69.jpg

1415 - Wang vassal to Joao (friendly).

1490 - Anjar:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0001-66.jpg

1560 - Joao + Wang declare war vs SB + George.

1565 - And Justi + Montezuma join vs SB.

1570 - I join the war for diplo points. Wang breaks free from Joao.

1702 - Wang offers vassalization to Joao again.

1712 - Fustat:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0002-66.jpg

1738 - Aden:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0003-64.jpg

1740 - Ready:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0004-62.jpg

1742 - Nacogdoches captured.

1746 - Now I call bs. Sitting Bull capitulates to Joao. Joao didn't capture any cities and they both had a couple GG, so it was quite balanced. And SB usually takes FOREVER to capitulate. Still, this time he caps to Joao without even losing a city to him.

1756 - Wang breaks free.

1760 - And vassal to Joao again.

1768 - I'm still at war vs Washington, now free. NY captured:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0005-61.jpg

1772 - Washington:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0006-62.jpg

1778 - Philadelphia captured and George is dead:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0007-61.jpg


Empire at 1778:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0008-56.jpg

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0009-58.jpg

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0010-47.jpg

Techs:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0011-46.jpg

Diplo:

http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo282/AiShizuka/Civ4ScreenShot0012-40.jpg


Pretty obvious from the diplo screen, but Joao is going to get a diplo win. SB is forced to vote for him and Wang will vote for him as well, vassal or not.
If Justi is the second candidate, then probably Joao doesn't have enough votes.

I really don't know where to go from here. SB's vassalization to Joao totally screwed my plans. I could keep a stack ready at Wang's border and attack if he breaks free again. At that point he shouldn't vassal to Joao again (Joao is pleased with me and wouldn't start a war to protect Wang). But I don't know if he will break free again.

Second option is war vs Justi+Montezuma. But they are HUGE and I can't even imagine how many millions units they have.

UN not built yet, but if Joao builds it in Lisbon, I'm screwed. Lisbon is not coastal and obviously he has railroads. I'd need A LOT of units to make it alive to Lisbon.

I may go for space, but I'd have to survive a lot of UN elections.









Edit:

Just noticed I've captured Philadelphia and killed GW in 1778 AD. Too bad I didn't do it in 1776, but still an enjoyable occurrence.

@ AS:

1. If you thought culture was optimal at check 2, why didn't you go cultural? I started pushing culture in 1620 and won it.
2. Try to bribe powerful AIs out of war with your target so you don't get surprise caps
3. Wang is +0 with SB, don't forget vassal averaging rules for diplo votes.
4. The internet can win you space if nobody is pushing culture in your game, even if you're behind
5. Don't wonder whore without a purpose. I out teched you with 0 early wonders :(. That's a bad sign because I am NOT good at tech. I might be the worst-teching immortal player! Stone lets you WE/SSE though.
6. Definitely abuse mass trades as soon as you can. Choose your tech carefully.

TMiT:


Overall, I'm having a hard time to adapt at Emperor. Noble - Prince was feeling pretty much the same. Jump to Monarch was a little bit harder, but nothing really harsh. Now at Emperor my games simply don't feel under control at all.

I think the main thing is the tech rate of the AI and all the trading. I simply never had anything to bribe Joao out of that war. Still, it was totally unexpected. SB usually takes forever to cap.

Forgot the vassal hidden modifier, but it doesn't matter here if Wang doesn't break free again. He'll vote for his master anyway. If Wang builds the UN I'm probably safe.

I'll try to get the Internet. Not a fan of space victories, but seems to be the best option at this point.

Some more thoughts on trying for a cultural win with Saladin, while isolated, after reading jesusin's guide (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=298093):

A Great Prophet is a mixed blessing. He reduces the number of Great Artists, but he can bulb some religious techs and the first one can start a Golden Age by himself, which gives +100% GPP towards the next artist.
This mean a GP or two early in the game is at least OK and maybe good, so the GPP towards a GP from running priests in a Madrassa is OK. Later in the game you don't actually want to pop a GP, so you don't run the priest specialists except in cities that won't pop a GP. I'm not sure how to guarantee that, except to guarantee it gains GPP slower than the threshold gets raised by other cities popping GAs.
The more religions the more cathedrals, which means faster culture growth in the legendary cities. So an early religion can help, and creating an AI love-fest doesn't hurt quite so much in an isolated start -- until they all gang up on the Heathen once they get Astronomy.
Starting isolated means very little chance of having one of those early religions spread you you post-caravels if the AIs get them. So early Hinduism might mean not having to go for later-game Islam or Christianity and might make it OK to miss Confucianism.
I think you want Monotheism anyway just for Organized Religion and easier building of missionaries, so maybe going for it instead of Buddhism or Polytheism is OK: get a couple of worker techs, then beeline Monotheism, and aim for CoL and Confucianism as soon as possible after that.
Justinian and Montezuma both start with Mysticism, so might beat you to whichever initial religion they care to aim for if they get a research boost at the start. I've heard Pacal goes for Polytheism, but he's not in the game; if M&J prefer Meditation, can you beat them to both initial religions?
Isolated means you can't depend on trading with the AI until late, and trading for techs you don't need to beeline is part of the standard cultural strategies. I don't know enough to evaluate this factor -- that is, what techs not on the main path to Liberalism must you still research?

Advice/feedback greatly welcome!

Hi Dalamb :),

I am not an expert on culture ( or in anything else :lol:) but I am playing for culture on this one...

I don't think an early GP is that usefull: The main objective imo is to reach liberalism (on which path you find COL and philo) asap (for FS), while creating some (3 sounds good) religions. So the main GS early on will be scientists for me (philo, education bulb most likely)... then only artists (hopefully :) ). Grabbing the free one from music is also a good move I think.
Note that founding early religion has the disadvantage of boosting AI AI relations and their tech speed :(... But you need those to build cathedrales...

If you have played the beginning of the game
I have played a little, and was able to found both hinduism and Judaism in Mecca, so being first to COL or Philo willl be enough for the religion grab... I don't think it is worth to generate prophet for Theologie or DR

As you said, i think the hard part begin when you met the AI (taking a look at their threshold for war declaration is a good idea)... You need to keep them happy or busy against each other... Perhaps a corporation approach is better in isolation as it lets you tech and make culture...

Isolation also means it is harder to know when to stop the research: after liberalism? after astro? after the corp tech?

Cheers

Started a Prince/Epic. 785 BC right now, 5 cities up. Skipped the early religions, but grabbed Confucianism, then Civil Service with the Oracle. Looking at other people's city placements, mine are pretty different, especially my 'production' city, which will require some heavy irrigating to survive.

Initial thoughts. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7771557&postcount=14)
Musing about cultural victory strategy. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7774898&postcount=42)

I turned off barbarians and espionage; I want to try a cultural victory strategy, and considered them annoying distractions.
I decided to go for both Hinduism and Judaism, leaving the AIs to all go Buddhist. Settled 1S, built worker, warrior, stonehenge. I wanted both the more rapid border popping (from monument in addition to religion) and to generate a Great Prophet to pop one of the religious techs. When stonehenge was done I pre-built warriors to reassure my eventual cities, a scout to pop the remaining huts, and a Buddhist missionary (while running Organized Religion) in case I needed to speed up spreading the state religion. When Mecca grew enough and I was close to finishing Bronze Working, I whipped a settler, who now needs to decide where to go. I expect to start the Oracle when I get Priesthood.

I lucked out, getting mining from the hut that popped with the first border expansion. Researched tech path: polytheism > masonry > monotheism > hunting (for the ivory) > AH. I don't need agriculture just yet, so I'm currently going for priesthood for the Oracle (and eventual temples, of course), thenI need madrassas online soon to boost the tech rate to get CoL faster, so now I'm going agriculture > pottery > writing before priesthood. Ignore the "meditiation" in the dotmap -- I backed up a couple of turns to ignore it for now.

I looked over the Great People tech preferences (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952) list. I noticed that he can theoretically bulb Code of Laws but I don't see how to do it; he'll bulb Theology if you have Writing and Monotheism, but Code of Laws needs Writing and he'll bulb Monotheism before CoL. I have no idea if I can get Math after CoL fast enough to be able to manage a CS slingshot, after having taken the time to go for Monotheism, but maybe a couple of Madrassas online soon enough will help -- especially since I'll want a GS for an Academy in Mecca, which is part of jesusin's strategy.

City locations:http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/LHC/LHC39Saladindotmap1600BC6.jpgTo follow jesusin's strategy I need:

A GP farm, with 2 good food sources, 2 3-4 food-per-turn tiles, and 2 mines. Sounds like Yellow to me; the ivory on plains can serve as the 2nd mine (1F2H1C). I expect to send the just-finished settler there unless somebody has a good alternative suggestion.
Three cottage cities, to become legendary, one of which is the capital. They're supposed to have at least "10 green cottageable tiles and 2 mines". Well, I've got plenty of cottageable tiles, most of which are flood plains, but mines are in short supply. Orange and red, in that order, seem like my best bets. This might not be the best placement for some other victory goals, but I'm sticking with jesusin's advice as best I can.Other cities are for later. Blue is probably next after the initial 3 settlers go out, for the marble for the National Epic and maybe the Parthenon. I don't need bronze at all for a while -- likely not until I want to build a cathedral that builds faster with it -- so white can wait to be the last of my 6. I may not need grey; it'd be a 7th, and only 6 are needed. Availability of iron might shift plans a little.

Checkpoint 1. 2600 BC
Forget the barbarians, the Arabians have discovered a far bigger gamble.

The warrior saw more flood plains than I could deal with so I settled in place. The four huts didn't produce a coin so money will be a problem. On the other hand the tech path of Polytheism/Masonry/Monotheism/Priesthood founded two religions in the capital and has left me 11 away from writing and 25 away from the Oracle. No second city, no Bronze Working, of course, but will any AI have a better chance at the Oracle? A third religion is the point, I think, of a religion-driven game and as the Brits say, "In for a penny, in for a pound." High risk, unknown profit. What more could one ask?

So, I need to know if we have copper, iron, horses and more about that eastern island.

Emperor/epic, to the end:

Retired when Joao launched his spaceship. I don't know how, but he was going for culture and space at the same time, still generating a massive amount of EP. I needed some 60k ep just to see his research, so SS sabotage was not an option.

Lost the Internet as well, wich was my only hope to catch up.

Now are the people forgiven by the gods, or foregone by the gods??


Joao, virtually had Wang boxed in with starting position, and Monty at opposite end of continent, it was allway's going to be Monty and Justinian fighting, with Joao taking the spoils once they had exhausted each other.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/startingpositions.jpg


Having watched the replay

OMFG, the Koreans were the aggressors, they took out most of Justinian's empire, Wang declared war, 6 separate times. The last was when Justinian became Monty's Vassal, probably to protect him, as Wang declared on both Monty and Justinian then.

Joao, just sat back, built up, and when Monty declared on Joao, and Wang declared war on Monty and Justinian, Justinian was Quickly eliminated, and Monty vassalized to Joao after losing 2 cities and capturing 1 from Joao, severely out teched by then I'd say.


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

When it came to Wang, what it took him 1000yr's to build, through war and diplomacy, Joao destroyed in 8 yr's. Same way for Georgie boy.


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Lonely%20hearts%20club/39%20Saladin/Check%20point%204/graphs.jpg

As the graphs show, Joao, just monstered every one he came across, Wang played the Psycho Killer role, Monty played the white knight, who couldn't even save himself, 3 declarations of War!!!!, 2 dog piling onto Justinian, and the fatal 3rd on Joao.

Immortal/Epic, Checkpoint 2:


Things were going along quite nicely, however we've met a quite serious threat (= contact, thus ending the second checkpoint). Screens tell the story again.

Last hut on the island netted a good tech - it finish metal casting (still a good 10 or so turns of research left too).

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Salluckylucky0000.jpg

This allowed the Colossus to be a sure bet (was already planning anyway)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/SalCol0000.jpg

Development at the end of the BCs
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal5BC0000.jpg

Philosophy is bulbed
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/SalPhilo0000.jpg

There were a ton of barb galleys around... they killed a couple of mine and even a trireme (but never got any resources). This galley had 5 kills, but then died his next battle.
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal5kills.jpg

I did manage to settle the sweet little island though. Maoi is already in the works at the one fish site however; this may not have been worth it in retrospect. Argh, I wish we had stone, it would have made a lot of wonders more doable...
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Salisland0000.jpg

At this point in the game the title is acceptable - in fact it shows things are going pretty well.
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/SalFineisnice0000.jpg

[SPOILER]The first AI met is Wang Kon. He has a very high gnp (maybe the highest...) and a large tech lead :( However he only has a handful of cities, probably won't be too strong late game.
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal-contact0000.jpg

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal-wang0000.jpgSPOILER]

He hasn't put espionage on me, and I have a fair number of courthouses. Unfortunately this reveals I am way beat to the liberalism race (he's probably going to get Taj too...). Unsure of what to do with this scientist - no top city for academy (slider is kinda low), edu bulb will save a lot of beakers, GA could be really nice too though...and that's my Checkpoint 2. Still have no religions... :lol: (actually I was very angry that Pacifism wasn't giving bonus to my cities-atheist pacifism, but apparently no more in the current patch or something?)

Prince/Epic Checkpoint 4: 1864AD Domination Victory



http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w244/Kuat2/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

First BtS game ever played through to a win, following on a Vanilla spaceship win for GOTM 38 (Warlord). :woohoo:
Initial thoughts. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7771557&postcount=14)
Musing about cultural victory strategy. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7774898&postcount=42)
4000-1600 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7775617&postcount=45).

My continent shortly before the win:http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/LHC/LHC391882map5.jpgDark Green (Bagdad), Yellow (Damascus) and the southwest light green (Mecca) were the legendary cities. Red (Medina) was the GP farm. NE light green (Najran) was for the marble, and eventually generated many of my military units, including some late-game frigates to defend against possible invasion. SE light green (Kufah) was for the copper -- which I didn't really need at all until building copper-based cathedrals. The eastern island (Basra) was an afterthought; I built it more or less out of reflex, since I didn't think I needed a 7th city, but it wound up generating a valuable GA and some reassuring military units.

I basically just followed jesusin't strategy, though not as well, but that was to be expected. Towards the end I began to worry about Joao or Justinian DoW, because they were much more powerful:http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/LHC/LHC391886Power.jpgThey'd started to demand civic-change or money, which I refused because I needed Pacifism and money (running 80% culture at -19/turn for the last 20 or so turns of the game). I'd kept teching to Gunpowder just to be able to build some end-game defenders, which I'd skimped until First Contact.

The only graph I kept from the end was power -- clicked the wrong button. Is there any way to get them from my Hall of Fame? I took this culture graph from a save from a few turns before winning:http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/LHC/LHC391882Culture.jpgObviously no one else was going for cultural. Anybody know which leaders like to go for a cultural VC? I've suspected Hatchepsut and Mansa Musa in the past, but my (former?) inability to finish games meant it was too early to tell for sure.

I think it's interesting that I was quite far behind on score this close to a win:http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/LHC/LHC391882Score.jpgI guess the score formula doesn't value near-legendary status -- maybe because the powerful civs can take it away too easily? Can anyone explain briefly what the GN (Gold) graph means? I was generating a lot of commerce because of cottaging, but was running low or negative on actual gold:http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/LHC/LHC391882GNP.jpgI generated 2 GP, 1 GS, and 11 GA. The GS built an academy in Mecca, which in this strategy is the dominant source of research. The GPs bulbed Theocracy and Divine Right -- I founded all the religion but Buddhism, which led to the expected love-fest on the continent to the west, but also gave me +300% culture in the two cities that built cathedrals. All the GAs went to culture bombs, which I carefully allocated to make all three cities go legendary within a couple of turns of each other (also part of the published strategy).

The Madrassa helped. All 3 legendary cities got a small boost from the extra 2% culture. Medina used it for the GS, but Mecca used it to get a GP just afterwards, when I had a reasonable need for it. I then turned it off to let Medina generate as many GA as possible. I was lucky on the two GAs in Mecca -- it was about a 50% chance in each case, because of the various GA-generating buildings in Mecca, and both went the way I wanted. With one less GA I'd have used the extra GP for a golden age -- preferably not long before building the Taj Mahal, which I missed by 2 turns but could have got by deferring something-or-other that was probably less important. I ran GMs in all the cities that had no chance of generating another GA, which helped me run that 80% slider in the last few turns.

I had Sistine Chapel for the free specialist, which was GA in Mecca and Medina and on the island to the east, which got me at least one GA there from running artists when it got to max population. Hermitage went to the slowest-growing legendary city as per the strategy. Mecca also built Stonehenge, the Oracle (for Code of Laws), the Parthenon, and the Globe Theatre (built quite late just for the extra GA points). I built the AP there just to keep it out of enemy hands; if the Buddhist block had got it, somebody might have been inclined to start a holy war against me. Medina (GPP farm) had the National Epic. Kufah, the coastal city near the bronze, had Moai Statues.

After first contact I bought Wang Kon's and Washington's maps (rather than trading mine, trying to keep them from circumnavigation for just a bit longer). The Buddhist block to the west had one silver lining: I sent caravels with Hindu missionaries to evangelize America and the Native Americans -- the combination on one continent was a nice touch, r_rolo1! :rockon:

A fun game. It wasn't as boring a "click for next turn" thing as I feared: I stayed up far too late last night! I'm unlikely to try for a cultural win soon; I have other skills to work on. I'm certainly far from "mastering" Noble, but I begin to believe I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

Congrats Dalamb! :)

Hi

Noble,Marathon, 1905 AD, checkpoint 4, dom win.

Well picking up from last report I kept heading to lib while my caravals explored. I didnt get the map race but eventually met everybody.

Looks like its a vassal game. Justy has Monty for a vassal, Jao has Wand, and SB has geaorgie. Seems like EVERYbody gets a lackey cept me ::pout::

Anyways nothing majored really happened. I win lib race, pick astronomy, tech to Nat, while teching to nat I finish stadium quest and pick GA for reward. druing ga a ps pops and I use that one for another ga and during all that Nat gets teched and Taj get built for back to back to back ga's :). But they just 16 turn ga's not 24 since we didnt get MoM but oh wells they will still nice.

Now at this point a VERY late culture win might be dooable but it would take a LOONG time. Mecca is in good shape tto go legendary but my other two top cities still loooong ways off so at thatt point I am not sure if it worth it, or even space win or any kind of victory.

In end a military win seems best bet so after that I need to pick which land mass to target so I start to try and build up military a lil bit while I wiegh my options. the confusism block of sb and wash or the judiac island over in west with Jao and Justy and their vassals.

SB and Georgie are closer and they are weaker AND they are less technologically adavnced than Justy and Jao. Plus being just those two I dont have to worry as much about a backstab from Jao while going after Justy or vice versa. So SMART move is take over SB?GW continent then leverage that land to make a move on the other.

But here is the deal. The WHOLE game the wset island keept rying to flippin tick me off BIG time. I mean ok when we first all meet I AM smaller than all the guys who have vassals. My power is lower than SB, lower than Justy and lower than jao. Although EVERY body is lower than Jao cuz he is HUGE.

So of COURSE they ALL start huffing and puffing with their threats and demands. No early on I do TRY and stay peaceful since I am not SURE if/when or who I would be attacking easy going leader that I am I try to play nice and give in. Now SB plays it nice he comes by demanding gold I give it and all of sudden he now pleased with the "you gave us tribute" bonus and after that goes back to his wigwam and doesnt bug me too much.

NOT Jao and Justy. NOOOOOOOO. They demand gold, Jao demands my Ivory, Justy demands my maps THEN they start demanding techs. At first it just a rinky dink one like drama but THEN they want astronomy at which point my patient is getting VERY thin.

Here an example Justy copmes by demands I adopt theocracy. I figure ok Im spiritual I ill just give in for diplo bonus then 5 tuns later switch back for FR. Then I could say I "leveraged" spiritual trait hehe :P.

What happens? By switching to Theo LIKE Justy ASKS ME TO his rating with me DROPS. Why?? Well cuz since my SR at time was buddism by going to theo it kicks in again so I get a BIG penalty with justy now for falling under sway of different religion. Grrr I am like I am ONLY a diff religion now cuz YOU TOLD me to switch and NOW you being snotty about it? grrrr you dillhole.

After this I am getting VERY feed up with pretty much that WHOLE island. I mean Jao and Justy are frying my cheese BIGtime then there is monty who while I guess technically hasnt done anything to be annoyed at THIS game you KNOW he would if he could so I am annoyed with him on principle. pretty much only wang is playing nice. He trading me squirrels which I ALWAYS like to get cuz they sooo cute :D. And he always a very good sport about when I start singing "everybody have fun tonight" when he pops up in diplo screen. But even his being nice cant make up for the rest of the dillholes he sharing a continent with.

THEN as we get toward late indy techs I try for broadway after teching electricity. Jao beats me to it. How? The lil financial weenie goes into US and starts fricking buying ALL the frickin wonders from then on. Braodway, R&R, christo, eiffel. All Big shinys I want and all I would need to go for late culture win so THAT pretty much has it settled that culture going to be out.

And then it finally happens. The lil %^&^(*& Justy DoW's on me. So THAT just tears it. NO more lets be nice and toelerant and play peaceful anymore.

After fending off Justy's attack I build a few more guys and they load up and then:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/atackjusty.jpg

They go say Hi :)

After taking first foothold on continent the stack splits up. This stack:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/inlandattack.jpg

Moves on the landlocked cities. Then all my marines stay in transports and start sail north and around taking out all the coastal cities.

War takes a few turns. ANd my cities start to suffer. Both from lack of resoruces and from WW. WW got so bad I had to switch from rep to PS until one of my cities got Rushmore done which made my tech rate drop a lil and it wasnt all THAT great to begin with.

Even getting flight which did help a lil bit still dint speed it up THAT much. Its one of reasons I HATE late game wars. Here is an example:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/heavyculture.jpg

Late game culture of EVERY city is HUGE. That ONE city is pushing back against ALL those other cities I took already and my guys have to schlep through it all ONE turn at a time cuz SOME genious and fireaxis COULDNT be bothered with fixing how they messed up bararge for tanks after fixing it for seige. So instead of lighning fast modern wars they got lug along cannon and then artie like very body else so it takes FOREVER grrr.

But even though it takes awhile EVENTUALLY first Monty gets killed off then Justy gets killed off. And eventually things start to improve as the newly captured cities pop and I start getting the resoruces. Rushmore gets built and I can go back to Rep and eventually my cities all get happy and healthy and start growing again.

Now you would THINK that after Justy and Monty providing a VERY good example bout why a AI SHOULDNT fry my cheese a smart fellow like Jao would get the hint. But NOOOOOOOO. It round this time he gets Eiffel done for the freebie tower to go along with hsi creative trait and not ONLY does he start pressing all his icky culture down throats of my cities he FLIPS two of them. Grrrrrrrrrr it like something in the water on that continent makes just about EVERY Ai on it INSIST on being a dillhole.

So I get my stacks organized. I have enough guys to plsit into three differnt stacks. Thanks to airlifts. Plus now they getting backed by fighters and then bombers so as soon as everything ready they make their move.

With three stacks going at once and with air support it goes buy a LIL faster even though by this time Jao not only has assembly and RR but he also have inustrialism too, But IU hasd thos etechs longer so have more of the modern units and eventually I get him to this point.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

He down to his last 3 cities. Now it getting late and I figured I got his cap which had Christo and Broadway and eiffel and got the city that had R&R ao maybe I should try and and be nice and just end it now and instead of killing him dead letting him have privledge of being my lackey. It would also make up for earlier in game where even tho EVERY body had a lackey I didnt get one :P

So I look and and the cap option is redded out. Grrr sheesh I KNOW TNIT said that ai deciding when to cap was bugged but I mean c.mon it not like he still above average power cuz of rinky dink vassals. he IS the rinkydink even his ex vassal (who called independence loong time ago at this point) wang bigger than him

So I ask him "hey what gives?" and here is is answer:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/weaniejao.jpg

The big weenie. The ONLY reason I HAVE enemies is cuz he FORCED his lackey to dow on me when I attacked him. But I make peace with wang who I been leaving alone pretty much the whole time anyways since unlike SOME AI's I could mention he WASNT being a TOTAL dillhole during the game. He agrees and now big weenie Jao will cap.

I check vic conditions and that point:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/vicontwo.jpg

Close I figure just one shift return for a few borders to op. Turns out I was wrong I needed to hit shift return one more time and then:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/vicnotice.jpg

I win :D. Also spiffy shot of one my stacks with my amrines which I used a TON. Doint worry I know they kinda look like taliban fighters or something but they are good guys :)

Anways here is what my final empire looked like:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/finalempire.jpg

This is just my core empire. all the rest didnt amount to much. I never got any corps going. And without hammer boost for mining of even CC none of those cities really got going by time game ended.

My cap:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/finalmecca.jpg

Ended up being my top hammer city even out hammering my IW city and unfortunately it also at measly 166 gold per turn my TOP money city. That just sad. But at least thanks to hammers it wonderwhored enuff to get legendary :)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/finalbagdad.jpg

And speaking of sad just 366 bpt for my excuse for a science city. And I EVEN built cottages too :/. I dont know why but I just couldnt get ANY kind of decent city going. I think part of it is just cuz I am sucky and choosing locations. In this case I was trying so hard to work just about EVERY workable tile I could I ened up overlapping waaay too much so no one city could grow enuff :/.

Final graphs:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/finalgraps.jpg

Not exactly ended up being a runaway like the last NC game for me but you CAN see on the power what happened when they ticked me off once too many times hehe :P

Final demos:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/finaldemos.jpg

No 20 times the ai economy of hammers this game but still managed to get leads in most everything by end.

Which all adds up to:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/finalscore.jpg

Just a middle range score but it still a win :)

So I guess thats it for this game. Hope everybody else has fun too And see y'all next game :)

Oh and JUST in case anybody felt I was being TOO hard on the AI"s for being dillholes look at THIS:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/LHCSalad/jaosettler.jpg

See game is over and AFTER I was the HIEGHT of mercy and forgiveness and let Jao live to be my lackey what is he doing? he is building a SETLLER? where does he think he is going to put it ALL the land is settled. I'll tell you where--he is planning on trying to sneak a city in between the gaps of my captured cities before they come out of revolt. Grrrrrrrr that DILLHOLE.

I swear I am SOOO tempted to go back and reload an auto save before I let him cap and just wipe him cuz of that. As it is he just made it to TOP of my you know what list :P

Grrrrrrrr SOME AI's NEVER learn.
Kaytie

And kaytie gives us a nice example of why the diplo in Civ Iv needs some ...errr... refinements :rolleyes:

I wonder why nobody (except Ipex and I) settled one north? working cottages early on is valuable for a leader without eco advantage (well spiritual is very nice)...

Cheers

I just started playing this (I fixed my game), and I settled on the Elephant. Anyone else do that?

Is it even possible to grab the oracle in this game? It went ~1500 BC in my game. I'm assuming I pissed off Isabella (João in everyone else's game) by grabbing Buddhism, I had marble near by. When I was editing the save, I saw no one had industrious. Who else would be crazy enough to have a tech path of Meditation OR Polytheism -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Masonry -> Preisthood ->Writing (She took CoL off it, so I can assume that was the tech path)

I just started playing this, I fixed my game, and I settled on the Elephant. Anyone else do that?

Dunno but you clearly lost the health bonus ;)... what was your thinking? gaining one hammer in the city center?

Cheers

I believe my exact thoughts were, "Goddammit, the one time I get elephants I'm isolated. Grr. I want to build a city on them out of spite. Oh, and there's some floodplains. Nice."

:lol:

I have met all the leaders in my game and no Izzy :lol:... but some religious nutcase anyway ;) The oracle in my game went approximately around the same date... but in immortal this is pretty standard, you can't expect to grab the Oracle if you start it in 1500 BC... That can work if you are lucky though. Anyway, SH fell in turn 55 in my game so I was expecting a religious builder... I thought Capac but no ;)

I know, I play Warlords, so I had to replace João with her. And I'm a Prince, so that makes it even worse. Stonehenge didn't go until 700 or so BC.

Yeah sorry, I hadn't seen your problem of civ version ;)... but adding Izzy was asking for Oracle troubles :mischief: Anyway, the cash is always nice early on to keep on teching at 100% a little longer...

I didn't even get money - my Marble city's borders didn't even pop yet. :p
Meh, I managed to build the GLH, the GL, the ToA, and the Parthenon, so I was fine.

Monarch - Epic - To 10AD (Island explored, no AIs met)

Settled 1W, it looks like a pretty weak capital, settling in the flood plains would have made for a better capital, but a second city to claim most of them instead isn't a bad option. I decided against going for an early religion, I always trap myself into playing a religious economy while trying to claim all the religions whenever I draw a civ with mysticism, and that doesn't usually end well. My warrior got some gold, a second warrior and mining from huts.

I settled my first city in the flood plains, north east of the capital, and a second one to the north to claim fish, whale, silver and horses after the border pop.

I researched hunting > AH > mining (hut) > BW, and then Poly > Priesthood for the Oracle. I teched off writing while building the Oracle, and completed a CoL slingshot.

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/Phil725/CoLSlingshot0000.jpg

I timed CoL after settling my first city and before my second city so that Confucianism would found in my flood plain city.

I took a chance with the barbs, the only copper is in a crappy desert in the southeast, but horses were in a good spot. I didn't get access to it until my borders popped on my 3rd city though. My warriors did fine against archers, and I got my first chariot up just as the first axeman entered my land. There isn't much land to fog bust though, so barbs should be done as a problem now.

The happy cap isn't a problem at all, jumbos, silver, religion and temple if necessary is more than enough to delay HR for a long time.

I settled my third city far to the northeast claiming marble. This will be my Moai Statue/navy production city with 2 food sources, plus 3 hills and marble.

Here is my empire at 10 AD:

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/Phil725/LHCSal10WorldAD0000.jpg

I whipped the GLH right before I stopped playing, so that will be a nice boost to the economy. The GLib will be done soon, and with marble, I may as well make a run at all of those wonders as well.

Still quite a few city sites left. The rice/pig/2 wine city and the southeast horse/pig are good locations, while the northwest and far southeast have some mediocre land. I also haven't scouted the island off of the east coast, I'm guessing its just a 2 or 3 tile island, but hopefully there is some fish or something.

And here's my future wall street city:

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/Phil725/WallStreetCity0000.jpg

I figure I'll move my palace here and cottage it up completely. 5 flood plains, 2 wine, a shrine and a lot of grassland and riverside tiles. Oxford and Wall Street along with bureau will make it a force. Mecca will probably be my GP farm, since I don't think you can get 3 food sources anywhere on the island.

I'm currently teching metal casting to deal with barb galleys, maybe I'll make a run at the Colossus, the wonder pace doesn't seem to be blazing.

Monarch epic/BUG
1958 AD diplo win with Priest economy

Tried out the priest economy. Built mids, oracle, angor, Eifel tower, Taj, and University of Sankore. Spread confused to Washington and SB and they were my best buddies. Shrined Taoism and Confused.
Jao declared on me and I beat back his invasion. He then DOW'd Monty.
I joined in at the end to get one city of Monty before he capitulated.
I knew this was going to be lightening rod for Jao. Build airports and airlifted troops into the city. Jao suicided all manner of troops trying to take this city.
Giving me about 4-5 GG's. I then countered using Wan Kon as an ally. Vassalized Jao and Monty and made peace with Justinian.
Got Wan Kon to build UN and with Washington and SB achieved th diplo VC on first try.

Tech rate was crap at the end but was able to build internet and then used police state to fight the wars.
I have attached a screenie of Mecca at the end.
My double shrine/wall street city of Medina with 7 settled Great Prophets and one GM is also included as a screenie. It was also my primary naval pump throughout.

edit: Also proved world was round before I built first caravel through map trading. First time I've done that Noice!!

@RRRaskolnikov:
I wonder why nobody (except Ipex and I) settled one north? working cottages early on is valuable for a leader without eco advantage ...I my case I needed 2 cottage cities plus a partly-cottaged capital, for a cultural win strategy, so splitting the floodplains 2 1/4 ways made sense.

@Dalamb

I have to look at my game, but I think my two other legendary (well not yet :)) cities went to the wine tile and the grass two south of the horse tile... I think that makes room for 14 cottages at least per city... something like that (i don't have the game here).
I'll try to have a report up soon, but I am up in many SGs so lacks time :)

Cheers

Immortal/Epic Checkpoint 3


This checkpoint is when we have a pretty clear plan for victory - my path has been laid out in front of me. In this set of turns I've met all the AIs except the Byzantine...caravel headed over there. My plan is to conquer backwards pollution Bull and Washington (Sitting Bull does remind me of like Toku in civ 3 - a civ so backwards and full of pollution you invade just to clean up their pollution to have less global warming... :lol:)

After having met Wang before, I met Joao + vassal Monty next. A few turns later Wang even peacefully vassalized to Joao! Founding Mexico City may be my eventual goal (ruins of Aztec civilization) but I can't take on Joao yet... Sitting Bull will come first.

Had good trades to catch up in tech (wang is the only one really leading me):
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/salgoodtrades0000.jpg

Despite Wang having nationalism a good 10-15 turns before me, somehow he didn't build the Taj fast enough. Marble + Bureau cap + a couple chops got it for me. It was a solid golden age; I switched to Free Speech in the middle and my gnp has never looked back.
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/SalTaj0000.jpg

I'm the Hopeless again... maybe this one is not so good but at least I'm on the board!
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Salhopeless2500000.jpg

I went for astro but it seems to be a mistake - I think I actually am going to open a thread to ask about trade route mechanics because in a number of other threads recently no one has the answers...sucks right now but I'll manage in the game. I'll have rifles way before anyone cept maybe wang and should crush SB with ease. Here's the overall tech situation:
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Salsolidtech0000.jpg

Overview at Checkpoint 3:
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal3Checkpoint0000.jpg



Edit: Haha, making a fool out of myself about trade routes; for anyone wondering for more specifics about this game:
None of them have it as their favorite civic so I'm sure they'll switch out of mercantilism; in fact I thought Wang had done so at Economics (and Wash/SB didn't even have banking I think until a round of lots of tech trading). Still I made an error in not adopting merc myself I suppose, but at least now I won't have to sell astro to anyone I don't want to.

Checkpoint 2 1858 AD
Checkpoint 3 pre-4000 BC

Well, it took forever for the last Civ to find me and I rather committed to the three legendary cities scheme before downloading as I've never tried it.

The Oracle gamble worked and Theocracy was founded (total of three religions) in Mecca as the Arabs had no other city. In 800 BC the Vedic Aryans put in an appearance - survival resulted in serious delay. Bad luck. In 150 BC I used a Great Prophet for Code of Laws, rather than a shrine - it brought Confucianism to Medina (1 S of the southern horse). Iffy decision. In 350 AD Damascus (1 S of the lake) got the tin-thing on the mined hill directly NW deciding which would be the three would-be legendary cities.

To Damascus - the Great Library, the Hagia Sophia and Hermitage. To Medina - the Statue of Zeus, the Parthenon and the Sistine Chapel. A better choice of the Great Artist city could have been organized but the key act of lunacay was building the National Epic in Mecca. The shrines were built late, six cities are still a religion short, Damascus is building its last cathedral but Medina has four to go. Inattention? Inexperience? Indolence? All, no doubt, but for me this VC is going to require a spreadsheet in the future. Back to bad luck for a moment; the G/A city has just produced its second straight against all odds Great Prophet.

Team Arabia has not been statiscally eliminated. Saladin just needs more religion, more money for the culture slider, more troops on the shores, peace in this part of the world and...

Technically possible; highly improbable.

Checkpoint 4 1898 AD

You can't win them all; sometimes you have to tip-over the King.

In 1892 Montezuma declared war and in 1894 took Fustat (the central western city) taking a temple Medina required for a cathedral. Difficult to deal with but in 1896 Justinian declared war and then showed up with six destroyers and five transports at the marble city defended by three aged units. None of the others would deal. I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night - no way out.

It was a mistake to force an unrealistic victory condition from the get go. This is a game of flexibility and opportunity. Exploration and religious expansion should not have been eschewed. Poor planning and play did not help.

This three legendary cities challenge remains interesting.

Checkpoint 4 1898 AD

You can't win them all; sometimes you have to tip-over the King.

In 1892 Montezuma declared war and in 1894 took Fustat (the central western city) taking a temple Medina required for a cathedral. Difficult to deal with but in 1896 Justinian declared war and then showed up with six destroyers and five transports at the marble city defended by three aged units. None of the others would deal. I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night - no way out.

It was a mistake to force an unrealistic victory condition from the get go. This is a game of flexibility and opportunity. Exploration and religious expansion should not have been eschewed. Poor planning and play did not help.

This three legendary cities challenge remains interesting.
You need to read some strategic threads about cultural victories! I am the opposite of you, I seem to only win wit cultural victories... :crazyeye:

You need to read some strategic threads about cultural victories! I am the opposite of you, I seem to only win wit cultural victories... :crazyeye:

I HATE playing for culture, but not so much that I'd avoid it at the expense of winning :p.

It's possible to switch to culture late, but you won't match jesusin's times then. However, it can usually beat space. You:

- Do your damnedest to get at least 1 of sushi and jewelers, preferably both.
- Go down the mass media line, rushbuying those wonders into your town cities
- That's right, riverside towns en-masse with FS/culture wonders/2-3shrines/hermitage/culture buildings are the answer here

Usually you can hit around 1k culture per turn with FAST outlay setup with US (other than the religion, start spreading whatever you get earlier since temples can take some time otherwise due to missionary limits). On standard maps normal speed, this means that with 0 culture you'd hit legendary in all 3 cities in 100 turns from the current turn after setting it up. In practice it will be a few less than that, but the idea is to set it up so that you'll hit your target before the AIs hit space.

The base culture from the corps is sick, and with the other multipliers can gain ground really fast. It will never beat good culture times where people go for it from the start, but it can still beat space.

@ Alborn
@ TMIT

Thank for the very useful post-mortem advice.

@ "et al"

The Lonely Hearts Club and the Nobles Club also provide excellent passive advice for the average player. The wide variety of approaches, successful and not, to a common challenge are instructively illuminating. Fine folks you are.

Hi :hatsoff:,

immortal epic, culture win in 1891 AD.

Moving my warrior I saw a lot of floodplains north of my settler... I settled there one turn later and found Djeddah:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0817.jpg

The plan is to found both Hinduism and Judaism in Djeddah... I start a worker.
Early tech path: Hinduism -> fishing -> pottery ->masonry -> monotheism. On turn 20 we got our first relligion, on turn 70 we got the second:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0820.jpg

In the meantime we built another worker and a warrior.
State of Djeddah at this point:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0821.jpg
Already some cottages being worked...
At this point, the mainland is mapped, exception of the little island where we can already see sheep.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0823.jpg

Tech path then went Archery -> BW ->Agriculture -> AH -> Writing -> COL, to defend and improve our lands, then to grab a last religion (if I fail, there is Taoism next door).

I start expanding building my two other planned legendary cities, to work cottages asap:
Mecca:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0817-1.jpg
Medina:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0818.jpg
In 650 BC, Confusianism is founded in Medina:
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0821-1.jpg

I then teched Monarchy for a higer happy cap and the basics of any economy: math, alpha, currency...
My first scientist went for an academy in Djeddah:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0826.jpg

Meanwhile, I settled the city claiming marble and two food bonus, with an eye on both the great library and the Parthenon...
We chopped a late great library in Mecca:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0830.jpg

I wanted it in one of my legendary city so it doesn't pollute the pool of the cities designed to make later artists. About that, my first three cities were cottaged, then all the others received farms to whip a little infra and temples, then to produce artists in caste (I ran merchants after they produced their last artists)...

A little later, the marble city completed the Parthenon:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0831.jpg
I was lucky on this one, this is pretty late...
I didn't plan on Sixtine because i won't have the possibility to run a religion after having met the first AIs, and none of my planned legendary is designed to run artists... (and also I got nicely beaten to music so delayed this reseach :D)

On the tech front I was slowly moving toward liberalism, with the research of philosophy and CS... when I met Justinian and his Aztec vassal:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0834.jpg

I immediately dropped my religion and initiated a trade to improve status to pleased:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0835.jpg

Shortly after having met Justinian, I met another couple of AIs, Joao and his Korean vassal:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0824-1.jpg
In the meantime time, I had used two scientists to bulb paper and part of education so I could make some trade:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0826-1.jpg

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0827.jpg

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0828.jpg

I generated a last scientist to bulb part of liberalism (Joao got there first), and trade it against part of PP to Justinian:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0834-1.jpg

I then teched Nationalism for the Hermitage and stopped the research.
State of Arabia at this point:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0835-1.jpg

The rest of the game was mainly trying to keep the AIs happy (had to declare two fake wars against SB and Joao), and growing artists to be bombed in my three legendary cities...

I was able to grow 10 of them, used as follow: 2 for Djeddah, 3 in Mecca, and 5 in Medina... Because I am lazy and used the governors (had a moment of :smoke: and forgot to force artists in the NE for some turns), I got a spy, which was used for a GA. I had to starve some cities so Mecca doesn't produce another scientist...

The AIs went to war a lot of times, resulting in a very big Justinian, who nucked the hell of Joao :lol:...

But arabic people didn't care because they lived in a beautiful country... and in 1890, after two last bombs, Medina and Djeddah reached legendary status one turn before Mecca...

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0844.jpg
Note that global warming destroyed one floodplain in Djeddah and one grassland in Medina

and...

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0858.jpg

Cities at the end game (all those merchants were artists most of the game):
Djeddah:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0847.jpg

Mecca:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0848.jpg

Medina:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0849.jpg

Damascus:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0850.jpg

Bagdhad:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0851.jpg

Najran (NE):

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0852.jpg

Kufah:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0853.jpg

Basra:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0854.jpg

Khurasan:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0855.jpg

and Anjar:

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo58/RRRaskolnikov/Civ4ScreenShot0856.jpg


I will add a save or two later :)...

Thanks for the game Rolo :goodjob:

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

@ Raskolnikov

Excellent win, really interesting read because of the general similarities (difficulty, speed) to my game yet things turned out vastly differently. For instance, our screens shots around 1300 AD (within 2 turns) show quite different empires...kinda neat (I know you have a ton of wonders in those core cities and all; I've just got Colossus and only popped like 3 or 4great people total so far). It's also always funny to hear how an AI becomes a powerhouse in your game (Justinian) while Joao is the main opponent in mine. I'm surprised the AI weren't all buddy-buddy since you denied them a lot of religions - did they still have different faiths? (in my game I just had hinduism spread to one city a few turns ago - I've had nothing the rest of the time :lol:). Well congrats again.

@Earthling:

I only got the Great library (for faster liberalism) and Parthenon (excellent for the later artists)...
About religions: The big continent had buddhism, christianism, and taoism... Early on both Joao and Justinian (the big fishes in my game were Buddhist so they teched fast in the beggining). Then Justinian switched to christianism and started killing Joao...
Washington (4 cities) and SB only got religion when one spread to their island (christianism for SB, Judaism for Wash)... Joao tryed to invade SB but Justinian bashed him before he could do any damages... Washington was in WHEOOHRN mode the last 500 years but never declared on anybody... added some saves ;), in the 980 AD one, you see one of my :smoke: moves, the spy hired by the governor in Najran ...

Cheers

Yikes - maybe I overshot this.

I just invaded Isabella (I use Warlords, so I had to replace João) with Infantry in the mid 1800s, and I think i got in over my head. Even after destroying most of her counter attack army, capturing one of her core cities and her capital, she still wants a city back. Plus, she captured my island city above that other continent. She has Artillery on me, and she still wants Madrid back for peace. My invasion has pretty much fizzled, only having enough for the initial invasion. I have two full galleons full of infantry, and about one more on the way, but I haven't gotten very many infantry from the beach to Madrid lately, and I just lost my beachhead.

- 1820AD The End Emp/Normal



As I don't usually go for cultural wins (only had 2 and 1 of them was an OCC game) I thought before I start lets give it a go.

Settled 1W for the pigs and started going for Poly. Hindu duly founded and as no-one had Mono yet. Judaism was my second founded religion closely followed by Christianity from the Oracle circa 950BC.

I built lots of early wonders including the GLib, Mids, SH, Parth, SoZ, ToA, AP (Christianity as the religion) and Sistines.

With 3 religions I needed 9 cities for the 3 Cathederals per city. Then it was just a case of teching my way through the top half of the tree. Someone beat me to Lib but very much needed for the Free Speech civic and at the time didn't take to long to research.

Managed to get plenty of GPs along the way unfotunately not many artists. Including the one from music I think I had 3. Definitely room for improvement there. :lol:

No real danger of getting attacked. Monte was in WHEOOH for centuries but as he still didn't have Astro at the end I wasn't to worried about him. :)

A few screen shots.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCSaladin/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Not sure when I took that but the GNP was good. Thinking back I didn't even have a GA through the game.

Winning screen.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCSaladin/LHCCultural0000.jpg

Legendary cities.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCSaladin/LHCMecca0000.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCSaladin/LHCMedina0000.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCSaladin/LHCDamascus0000.jpg

Top cities at the end. Yay 4 of the top 5. :)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/SJG12345/LHCSaladin/LHCTopcities0000.jpg

Lots of mistakes made in this game but an easy win. I'm sure I read somewhere that cottages are the best for a cultural win so why I didn't try to grow them in my 3rd city I don't know. :lol:

Thanks R_Rolo for hosting this.

Thought I'd try out Ol' Sal and did a run on Lib. Built GW, Oracle, Parthenon, Zeus, ToA, MoM, UoS, SP in Mecca. Built Medina on the flood plains/2wine/silver. I don't know where to go from here. SBull vasseled Washington so I'll probably go after him, hopefully I can try for a diplo win.

http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/LHC%20XXXIX%20Sal/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg
Holy WS
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/LHC%20XXXIX%20Sal/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg
Tech wise I could be better, was playing this kinda sloppy
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/LHC%20XXXIX%20Sal/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg
World
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/LHC%20XXXIX%20Sal/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Checkpoint 4, 1928 , Immortal/Normal from Immortal save
A culture win :eek:

Well, Saladin is made to get religions, so why not? And If TMIT can do it, so do I :p

Well, long story short ( that because I was in IM advidsing in the current SGOTM and I forgot to take screenies of most of the game. That probably explains a lot of my blunders, along why my relative inexperience in cultural vics ):

Started with hunting and as no one founded Hindu, I assumed that all the civs had gone to Meditation and decided to give Poly a try. Founded Hindu, Oracled CoL and self researched Theo for my religions. Then beelined Music via Lit ( classic move )

I was found very late ( almost when Lib hitted ) and by then João had capped Monty and wang was his voluntary vassal and justinian already had a war with João and Wang ( all the whirl was started by Monty ,as usual ). SB had capped Wash ( oh, the irony.... ;) ). This was probably the best situation possible diplowise: João would be clashing with Justinian for a while ( Justinian was Strong enough to defend himself ) and all I needed to do was to please SB enough for not being attacked ( one of the few tech trades I made ;) ).

João was hyper agressive and dowed SB to no avail and passed most of the rest of the game warring Justinian ( atleast 4 wars with him until Justinian finally capped very late in the game ). I , OTOH was very busy settling my 9 cities ( so busy that I was virtually bankrupt for a while, losing money at 100% cash ) and spreading my religions. I runned a SE for the most part of the game ( now Dave will not post here :p ) tending for a switch to cottages to the end. I made a large number of mistakes , like not leveraging Spi as bad as i could, not switching to Pac ( :faint: ) and turning the slider to 100% very late. This things alone delayed me probably for a century or more....

Anyway, the late game reminded me why I dislike this kind of cultural wins: Every AI in game finished apollo, Justinian was 2 SS parts away from launching and João was 60 votes away from winning by UN ( thank god that it was Justinian to build it, so even with Justinian capping, he wouldn't vote for João ). And i was pressing enter after putting my workers making lumbermills and railroads ( I haven't killed research completely ), and biting my nails.....

Anyway, mecca hitted legendary first and medina and damascus a little later in 1928. Some pics from the end of the game:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0115.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0116.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0117.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0118.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0119.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x257/r_rolo1/LHC%20BTS%20XXXIX/Civ4ScreenShot0120.jpg
This was probably my most builderish game ever and it was lacking in military even for my standarts ( haven't made any unit more advanced than a chariot IIRC ) . It was fun, but i don't expect to repeat this kind of game for a while.....

1928 Space Race Victory:

Most fun I've had in a game in a while. REX'd like . .. .. .. ., filling out my continent by 1 AD. Founded Confucianism. Met the other AIs, with a juggernaut Joao II and Justinian I in a Buddhist lovefest. Justinian had one of Monty's cities, Monty had one of his, indicating previous warring. Washington was a voluntary vassal of Sitting Bull. Teched to Grenadiers and Cannons, then launched an amphibious assault of Sitting Bull. Halfway into the war, Washington became the master in the relationship, and I landed a secondary Cavalry/Cannon force near his capital; I kept every city, switched into State Property, and began to cruise towards Infantry/Tanks/Artillery.

In the meantime, Monty had declared war on Justinian, and Wang Kon became the vassal of Joao II. His power rating was sky high. At any rate, Monty capitulated, and I began a massive arms buildup. Declared war on Wang Kon, took all of his cities, made peace with Joao II, then settled down for space.

Being an idiot, I did not check out Joao's power ratings, but he was PISSED with me (-28 IIRC). Declared war with overwhelming force...I think 10 Fighters, 5 Bombers, 20 Paratroopers, 25 Tanks, 25 Marines, 25 Infantry, 10 Artillery. My forces were spread around, resulting in a massive pitched battle outside P'yong'yang. I won the day, but he sent two more massive stacks into former Korean territory. I looked at my situation and gulped - he had a weak navy (Carracks and 2 Destroyers), with no Transports that I knew of (though he did have Attack Subs). My Transport/Destroyer armada was still parked outside Seoul, so I made a Dunkirk and withdrew all my troops and moved them to Washington. I set up a quick, crappy defense of Transports providing LOS around key cities. Finally made peace (giving him 2120 gold), and launched in 1928.

immortal, normal

not really that exciting or well played game. I settle 1S and build SH.
Early land is good but I oversettle and try to bulb my way to astro--getting a priest too many. Unfortunately everyone is in merc when I get there.
Relations are good all around ex Monte--I go for him with rifles/cannon but Just caps him first and I find myself with a single island city which I give back:(
So I just run to space and it's not too exciting--I launch the ship in 1876 probably 15-20 turns ahead of the AI

Immortal/Epic Checkpoints 3.5ish

Summary
I'm at the point where victory is certain, would take a while to play it out though. Continuing off my last checkpoint as I got rifling, I geared up for war with Sitting Bull... but I'm rapidly thinking of renaming the guy SpearmenbeatsTank Bull-

I basically gave up on optimizing stuff as the war went on (this game is just for fun, watching basketball last night, excuses etc...). Combined with the fact that SB simply would not lose the war probably took 3-4 times as long as it could have. Multiple assaults on cities saw 6-7 riflemen where all but one lose at 60-70% odds. Bulls' frigates might as well have been destroyers; I'd die on defense in the coast, and my frigate would die attacking his hurt one too... Then there was just incredibly sucky stuff happening - like capturing one of his weaker cities and it had the Ironworks, and I lose 10 turns of production in it at my capital (this was near the end of the war so I wasn't cranking out military anymore, but ouch that sucked). I mean, could he have at least had the Forbidden Palace or something...

In the meantime, at least this game brought some surprises that I don't often see in civ4. Justinian is at -24 with Montezuma, from Monty warring with him (before I ever met them) and -7 for past events. Never see it get this high between AI...(perhaps Monty simply gaining some of that FfH "You are evil" penalty ;) However Justinian can't do much with Monty being Joao's vassal. What I was quite happy about was the fact that Washington capitulated in just 3 turns after Sitting Bull (separate war that is) - course this is more lazy MM on my part since I probably should have just taken his cities. But now I have a massive economy (actually didn't realize how strong this really is for culture - for instance I've got two cites outside of my capital with 120, 130 base commerces, let alone actual culture-producing buildings). But now my plan is to just invade the other continent, probably wang or justin first - backdoor diplo is still going to be the win when I get around to it. SB had the AP but I only had the religion in like one city during the war so I'm not going to mess with it (at least defying never killed me happiness wise).

Also, I failed to get a screenshot of it due to simply going through the war frustrated, but I achieved a very, very special title from someone's "Great Work." At turn 350 I was actually "Earthling the Forgotten" in technological advancement :lol: This was due to splitting Louis off as a vassal on that small island, and he researched like archery and monotheism plus had all my techs...
Screens


Pre-Rifling (looking at the years/turns will show just how long this war dragged on...)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal4Beforewar0000.jpg

Drafted rifles got my power up quickly, but all through the war I never got too much higher... units kept dying (+ stagnant tech, man if I'd known how much my rifles would lose to muskets, and then grens when SB got them, and then he gets to Machine Guns but it's too late... But if I'd just teched a little more maybe).
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal4SBwarpower0000.jpg

His AP had no effect :smug:
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal4AftonPalace0000.jpg

Taking his capital (boy I thought it was over here too)
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal4MissedForgotten0000.jpg

SB was vassalized and now Washington is too, end of my report here.
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo25/richertc/Single%20Player/Sal4WarEnd0000.jpg

@Earthling:

A hundred turns of war, boy does that suck! Bad bad RNG hehe. Well, congratulations in not just giving up though! :goodjob:

@Arlborn:
Yeah, but it's not quite a 100 turns to be more accurate - I probably started around 320 and SB was done around 390 (then I hit Washington). I didn't take enough screenshots because I wasn't expecting the war to last that long. As you'll see in the AP screenshot if you can make out the minimap I had already taken a couple of his coastal cities - he should have been done for there except I lost like 10 rifles against the next city (in fact I seiged out Chaco forever...). Biggest problem in the war was not having cannons (SB had steel on me at the start but otherwise only muskets... got worse as the war went on though). And I also could have drafted more (switched back to FS pretty quickly). SB is also a horrible afton about peace settlement, it seems - he was willing to cough up a decent city for a long time but not any techs (or capitulate). I'm hoping to trade for a few things from SB/Wash now that they are my vassals (and I was lazy enough to not finish the wars). But no one except wang has any significant economic strength, and I can outproduce them all as well (plus Justinian's on decent relations, and hates Joao/Monty). I'm thinking of your typical inf/tank force with a lot of fighters to do the trick.