Hey everyone!

Please someone stop Elizabeth from launching Nukes!

Elizabeth declared war about 5 turns ago, despite the Defensive Pact between Cyrus and me. Cyrus has Huayna Capac as his vassal and I have Charlemagne and we are now both at war with her. I have the power to invade English territory but anytime i try to do that, Elizabeth is nuking her own territory, and (i'm not quite sure but i think) because of that her SDI doesn't work.

I really don't like nukes because I think it's hitting below the belt. And no one can build United Nations in order to ban nukes because i turned off the Diplomatic Victory setting (i'm a real warmonger).

So, you think i should Nuke back, or is there another solution to stop the nukes?

(In another game, an adviser popped up that i never saw before, and said "if the civ's continue to launch nukes, world will crack like an egg". after a few turns, it cracked! And it said something like "you should have listened to me, now everyone has lost!". I don't want the game end like that)

203908

Disconnect all of her uranium if you can, that will disable her ability to produce ICBMs and tactical nukes, leaving guided missiles. Also make sure she can't import it from Ragnar.

I really don't like nukes because I think it's hitting below the belt.
Ohh jeeze, you like to build up armies and backstab like a MOFU, but for some reason, if someone does something that YOU don't like, suddenly it's hitting below the belt?


And no one can build United Nations in order to ban nukes because i turned off the Diplomatic Victory setting (i'm a real warmonger).

That's YOUR fault.

Besides, many will tell you turning off the UN was hitting below the belt too.

Ohh jeeze, you like to build up armies and backstab like a MOFU, but for some reason, if someone does something that YOU don't like, suddenly it's hitting below the belt?




That's YOUR fault.

Besides, many will tell you turning off the UN was hitting below the belt too.

But man, getting nuked sure does feel like getting cup checked! I try to avoid it at all costs, which usually means nuking the hell out of them first, winning before they're relevant, or banning them :p.

I don't see how anyone is bothered by the UN once they understand hidden modifiers. The AP I can see, but the UN? The AI is terrible with it at best but the human can cheese out wins with it in so many games. IMO it's the 2nd easiest VC behind AP.

Of course, I'm the kind of player that will :backstab: and smile, or nuke and smile, or cheese a win and :lol:...so maybe I'm not a good person for the OP here.

The world only cracks (in physically impossibly ridiculous fashion) like an egg in next war scenario, not default civ. You do get some pretend fairy magic global warming though.

If you really want to overcome a civ in a not-so-fun nuke vs nuke war:

1. Build SDI
2. Whore tac nukes like no tomorrow
3. Split your stack a lot more than normal

thanks for the reply!

i already have SDI -there wouldn't be a game to talk about if i hadn't :)
unfortunately i had to give away one of the cities that i captured plus 1500 gold for a peace treaty because the gap between elizabeth and me for value of soldiers became 6 to 1 (8.310.000 for her and 1.368.000 for me)

a diplomatic type of player can not understand the tactics and art of war. also there is this irony. just before elizabeth declared war, there was +15 green dialogs and -7 red negatives between us. she was so called "pleased" with me. i wonder how my citizens would scrap me from the ground if i wasn't prepared.

besides, elizabeth's power is now lowered almost in half. at least it's better than nothing!

tnx again!

But man, getting nuked sure does feel like getting cup checked! I try to avoid it at all costs, which usually means nuking the hell out of them first, winning before they're relevant, or banning them :p.

I don't see how anyone is bothered by the UN once they understand hidden modifiers. The AP I can see, but the UN? The AI is terrible with it at best but the human can cheese out wins with it in so many games. IMO it's the 2nd easiest VC behind AP.

Of course, I'm the kind of player that will :backstab: and smile, or nuke and smile, or cheese a win and :lol:...so maybe I'm not a good person for the OP here.

The world only cracks (in physically impossibly ridiculous fashion) like an egg in next war scenario, not default civ. You do get some pretend fairy magic global warming though.

If you really want to overcome a civ in a not-so-fun nuke vs nuke war:

1. Build SDI
2. Whore tac nukes like no tomorrow
3. Split your stack a lot more than normal

unfortunately her uranium source is far away from my reach, but thanks!

Disconnect all of her uranium if you can, that will disable her ability to produce ICBMs and tactical nukes, leaving guided missiles. Also make sure she can't import it from Ragnar.

You could destroy the uranium tiles via espionage, of course then you would have to send in an actual unit to make sure she doesn't rebuild the mine.

a diplomatic type of player can not understand the tactics and art of war.

What? Are you saying if you win by diplo you don't know how to war? War is the easiest way to win diplo! (except for AP abuse)

And, a REAL warmonger wouldn't disable diplo victories, you'd go and raze the buildings!

actually, that's the case! i don't want to win diplo. and i don't want any AI to win diplo in my custom game. i just want to war as much as I can till the end of time.

it was just a reply on if having a war is backstabbing or not. if you got that meaning out of it, it's your call. of course you can know how to war when diplomatic victory is on. but only going diplomatic is not my preference. that's all...

What? Are you saying if you win by diplo you don't know how to war? War is the easiest way to win diplo! (except for AP abuse)

And, a REAL warmonger wouldn't disable diplo victories, you'd go and raze the buildings!

Looking at that power graph i dont think nukes are the problem here. In fact, nukes were probably the more optimal outcome. Could be modern armor for the same value.

a diplomatic type of player can not understand the tactics and art of war.
Absolute rubbish. I play the diplomat when needed, but as United States marine in real life i probably know quite a bit about strategy and tactics.
also there is this irony. just before elizabeth declared war, there was +15 green dialogs and -7 red negatives between us. she was so called "pleased" with me.
What was her attitude towards your vassal? that figures into it as well

And, a REAL warmonger wouldn't disable diplo victories, you'd go and raze the buildings!

So true.... :lol:

There are also so-called warmonger experts in the OTHER forum who turn off barbs... :eek:

I guess they don't want the free Exp for their armies. :confused:

Lets be honest, everybody knows that TMIT knows nothing about warring. The poor guy always ends up being overrun by the AI with no army to speak of for himself.

Hmm, we should guide him to some of ATTACKO'S warmongering strategy articles then.
Those amphibious elephants sure can save the day when things go terribly wrong....

I've been training over and over with warrior rushes, hill settling, and amph. elephants...I just don't think I can handle it :(. I am a builder and nothing but a builder, forever :sad:.

i really didn't mean that but sorry if i offended you.

actually i didn't think of my vassal's relation with her. i checked back and it was 5 positive to 30 negative just before the war! probably you're right, that was the reason.

also i was building a large stack of units for protection and she was checking my territory with stealth bombers every turn. maybe she saw me as a threat and decided to wipe them off before getting any stronger.

thanks for the useful advice!

Absolute rubbish. I play the diplomat when needed, but as United States marine in real life i probably know quite a bit about strategy and tactics.

What was her attitude towards your vassal? that figures into it as well

I totally agree with the barbs! But why a warmonger wouldn't disable diplomatic victory?

So true.... :lol:

There are also so-called warmonger experts in the OTHER forum who turn off barbs... :eek:

I guess they don't want the free Exp for their armies. :confused:

This is cheating, but go into the world builder and build the UN in one of your cities. Go to the diplo menu and give yourself a +100 with everyone. Now get elected UN General. First vote ban nukes. Now go back into the world builder and reset all the relations with the AI and delete the UN. there will be no more elections and the ban will stay in place. I found that doing it in the first two turns of a game will save a lot of trouble.

This is only if you do not mind cheating. but you said it was a custom game so consider it a cheap mod.

Hey I never knew that!!

Not gonna do it but really thanks anyway!

This is cheating, but go into the world builder and build the UN in one of your cities. Go to the diplo menu and give yourself a +100 with everyone. Now get elected UN General. First vote ban nukes. Now go back into the world builder and reset all the relations with the AI and delete the UN. there will be no more elections and the ban will stay in place. I found that doing it in the first two turns of a game will save a lot of trouble.

This is only if you do not mind cheating. but you said it was a custom game so consider it a cheap mod.

I totally agree with the barbs! But why a warmonger wouldn't disable diplomatic victory?

Disabling any victory condition gives the player an edge. Especially a warmonger. No unhappiness from defying resolutions. It also means you can declare all you like without worrying about the AI using that against you when it is election time.

Correct me if I am wrong but UN bans BUILDING nukes... If she has more then 100 nukes ready at her disposal, you cant do anything to that... to make things worse, if you dont have nukes ready, you wouldnt be able to build more... so basicly nuke banning is to become the only civ to be able to launch the nukes you build before the ban...

...because i turned off the Diplomatic Victory setting (i'm a real warmonger).

I am still trying to figure out what this means.

I guess when UN bans the Nukes, not only it bans building, but also launching. I didn't have the chance to try but I think when nukes are banned, you will not be able to launch previously built nukes.

Correct me if I am wrong but UN bans BUILDING nukes... If she has more then 100 nukes ready at her disposal, you cant do anything to that... to make things worse, if you dont have nukes ready, you wouldnt be able to build more... so basicly nuke banning is to become the only civ to be able to launch the nukes you build before the ban...

I think I misused the phrase.

I don't like to win diplo. and i don't want any AI to win diplo in my custom game. i just want to war as much as I can till the end of time. "Warmonger" was used because I love to war in every era.

Now checked and it's "the one who provokes war". Sorry for the misunderstanding. English is not my native language.

I am still trying to figure out what this means.

I think I misused the phrase.

I don't like to win diplo. and i don't want any AI to win diplo in my custom game. i just want to war as much as I can till the end of time. "Warmonger" was used because I love to war in every era.

Now checked and it's "the one who provokes war". Sorry for the misunderstanding. English is not my native language.

What obsolete is (correctly) implying is that UN and especially the AP have huge impact on war, and that this impact is part of the strategy of the game. Also, taking away VC's from the AI just makes things easier, although In the last 100 games I've played, and probably more, I can only think of one instance where the AI actually beat me using diplo. And, it was that dreaded BS garbage WTF gay LHC game where an AI with a lower net diplo with 3 separate leaders got all of them to vote for him on hidden modifiers. Now that I understand them, I wouldn't even lost THAT way to diplo (i'd have gunned down the UN ijiot earlier, built it myself since he wasn't #1 in pop, or gifted the techs to someone non-threatening first if I were to replay that with today's knowledge).

Point is, you can war allllll you want, and if you know what you're doing the UN is something you have to plan for slightly at worst, but frequently an afterthought.

So... elizabet is employing a scourged earth policy, didn't know the AI was so clever to do that.

Mills, I got to ask...did you build the Manhattan Project?

No, AI built it. But once anyone builds Manhattan Project, everyone can start building nuclear weapons.

In this case I was caught unprepared. I had SDI but didn't build any nuclear weapons to nuke back.

Mills, I got to ask...did you build the Manhattan Project?

Point taken. Thanks for the info! Next time i'll turn on other victory conditions and see what's waiting for me =)

What obsolete is (correctly) implying is that UN and especially the AP have huge impact on war, and that this impact is part of the strategy of the game. Also, taking away VC's from the AI just makes things easier, although In the last 100 games I've played, and probably more, I can only think of one instance where the AI actually beat me using diplo. And, it was that dreaded BS garbage WTF gay LHC game where an AI with a lower net diplo with 3 separate leaders got all of them to vote for him on hidden modifiers. Now that I understand them, I wouldn't even lost THAT way to diplo (i'd have gunned down the UN ijiot earlier, built it myself since he wasn't #1 in pop, or gifted the techs to someone non-threatening first if I were to replay that with today's knowledge).

Point is, you can war allllll you want, and if you know what you're doing the UN is something you have to plan for slightly at worst, but frequently an afterthought.

Point taken. Thanks for the info!

Next time I'll turn on all other Victory Conditions and see what's waiting for me =)

What obsolete is (correctly) implying is that UN and especially the AP have huge impact on war, and that this impact is part of the strategy of the game. Also, taking away VC's from the AI just makes things easier, although In the last 100 games I've played, and probably more, I can only think of one instance where the AI actually beat me using diplo. And, it was that dreaded BS garbage WTF gay LHC game where an AI with a lower net diplo with 3 separate leaders got all of them to vote for him on hidden modifiers. Now that I understand them, I wouldn't even lost THAT way to diplo (i'd have gunned down the UN ijiot earlier, built it myself since he wasn't #1 in pop, or gifted the techs to someone non-threatening first if I were to replay that with today's knowledge).

Point is, you can war allllll you want, and if you know what you're doing the UN is something you have to plan for slightly at worst, but frequently an afterthought.

I guess when UN bans the Nukes, not only it bans building, but also launching. I didn't have the chance to try but I think when nukes are banned, you will not be able to launch previously built nukes.

I remember launching nukes after the ban... I have to check thou not sure either :)

let me know when you check =)

I remember launching nukes after the ban... I have to check thou not sure either :)

You can launch them. Just can't build them

Mills, I got to ask...did you build the Manhattan Project?

The reason I asked is some peeps don't seem to expect the ai to have nukes after the manhattan project has been built.

The fact that you can build, then ban, then launch nukes, is one of the joys of late game warring. Unanswered nukes are the best nukes there are.

(In another game, an adviser popped up that i never saw before, and said "if the civ's continue to launch nukes, world will crack like an egg". after a few turns, it cracked! And it said something like "you should have listened to me, now everyone has lost!". I don't want the game end like that)

cool!!
I'd love to lose all my game this way!
if I survive that long .

Another nuke question - how does the AI use them? Tactically? Strategically? Do they nuke naval stacks? Land stacks? Stacks in their own territory? Or just cities?

I am in a situation where I will have to attack the vassal of Hatshepsut, who is nuclear-armed. I have nukes as well, but nobody else does (Hatty and I UN-banned them). The vassal should be a cakewalk - the war will probably be over in 3 turns - but I'm worried about the fallout of my attack, so to speak. I've cranked up my espionage on Hatty and have only been able to find one Tactical Nuke, but I suppose I wouldn't be able to see any others if they were loaded on Cruisers/Subs. Are ICBMs visible in the 'investigate city' mode? It's odd that she doesn't seem to have any.

Any advice would be welcomed (other than to not attack... Hatty's vassal is close to launching, and I am determined to seize his cities). :)

Hatty probably doesn't have a lot other than what you see.

She will tend to launch it on your stack, but I don't THINK she will move it into vassal territory.