Who do we want our opponents to be? Do we want to know who they are?

The Sibling / Mortal Enemy variant would need two civs to be designated, if it wins. How would we choose which ones?

Maybe two we choose and the rest random, if that's possible. (Shows how often I see the [c3c] startup screen :mischief: )

Choosing two and the rest random is definitely doable in C3C. Or we could choose all and then select the two for the scenario (if that one wins). A third option may be going all random and then setting and then setting triggers for your organic style. First one we meet is Sibling, 3rd one we meet is MortalEnemy.

Yes, we should have opponents.

Assuming we go that way, we should definitely choose our sibling and enemy before we start play. Others random is fine. I think we need to know who we are playing before getting more specific. In general we can think about these questions for now: Do we want our sibling to be like us (share one of our traits)? Do we want our enemy to be similar to us or the complete opposite?

We can make sure we have a method for defining someone a sibling or rival even if we haven't discovered them yet.

So we know before we start playing that say if we encounter mayans they'll be our enemy, but if we encounter Aztecs they'll be our friend. But we may not actually have Aztecs in this game.

So designate Friend/Rival to every possible civilization. Or define some criteria for defining it. ie. civs with at least one of our Traits = friend, civs without either of our traits = rival.

I think it's good to define the first two to guarantee we know that we'll get 1 that's friend and 1 that's a rival.

the rest should be a distribution based on our criteria. (for the above example I think we'd get probobly 1/2-2/3 rivals)

Yes, we should have opponents.


:D Ah, donsig. A more profound statement has not been posted here, in my opinion. We will never surrender....

Falcon02, if the S/ME scenario wins, there will be only 1 Sibling and only one Mortal Enemy. Are you suggesting that we base our attitude of friend/foe to the rest of the world also?

It's a possibility, I kinda thought that's what the proposal was... I've got no objection to only 1 friend though.

I'd like putting them all random if the RNG didn't seem lopsided. It seems like in every game I have the same rivals: Cleopatra, Alexander, and Caesar.

I'd like putting them all random if the RNG didn't seem lopsided. It seems like in every game I have the same rivals: Cleopatra, Alexander, and Caesar.
Are you playing from the same set of civs all the time, such as Babylon, Byzantines, Hittites, Persians? I have a distant memory of a "regional preference" in randomization of AI civs. Or was that barbarian tribe names? :crazyeye:

It is called 'Culturally Linked Starting Location' or some such nonsense. If checked, it means that each time you play an AI, it will have around it the same folks each time. Rome will always have Greece, Carthage and Egypt close by, for example.

I uncheck that box so that my neighbors are always random.

That's what I used to think, CB. But even after I unchecked that box Rome and Persia showed up consistantly. Now I choose my opponents and leave 2 random. Works much better.

We could assign each Civ a number and go through a Random # generator when we create it... but then we'll still know who all our opponents are and eliminates that mystery...

Unless we have someone else make the save... which I think has been done before...

We could also do a partial "Manual Random" Opponent Selection and then the remaining (however many) would be the ingame random.

That's what I used to think, CB. But even after I unchecked that box Rome and Persia showed up consistantly. Now I choose my opponents and leave 2 random. Works much better.
I don't think it eliminates them from the lineup. But they shouldn't be your next door neighbor.

I thought that was fun the first two times I tried it and it is a nice feature for a semblance of 'history'. But after that it got tiresome. I wanted to see new faces around me, not bearded Hannibal, prissy Cleopatra and snotty Alexander. I've got in-laws for all that. :D

I know whatcha mean... :D

Just fer shucks and giggles I'm going to put up two polls. These will be opinion polls that we can use if we want, but they will more than likely be elimination polls (or 2).

The first poll will be "Which Tribe would you like as our Sibling?" (little brother or little sister). You can vote for the Tribe you most want to help out in the game, as far as Tech trading/gifting, maybe donating some gold, seeing to their survival, etc.

The second poll will be "Which Tribe would you like to see as our Mortal Enemy?" Here you can vote for the AI Tribe you would most like to pulverize in the game. Take off the gloves and get down to brass tacks from the first moment we meet them.

I'm doing this as it seems the Sibling/MortalEnemy concept is headed for victory, and I want to be prepared if we decide to choose our S/ME and make the rest random.

Voice your opinion if you have one.

EDIT: Polls are posted.

I think both our Sibling and our Mortal Enemy share a trait with us. Say that we choose to be Babylon. Religious and scientific. Our sibling could be religious and our mortal enemy scientific or vice versa. Egypt and Gemany, Celts and Byzantines, etc. To be mortal enemies, you need to be similar in some ways and different in others. You might admire them for their culture and beliefs and hate them for being militaristic. I can imagine Babylon hating Persia and Germany because they are rivals but admiring them also.

Good points, Overseer714. I'll keep that in mind when I do elimination polls.

Overseer, I like your perspective, as well. Would we choose the first cultures we meet that share our traits, or predetermine by selecting ones that share? Are there any that share both traits ? Or choose our sibling, but then randomly make M/E of the next similar culture, or vice versa. But i'm for randomly determining both by a set of conditions. i like the unscripted random feel...

Darkwish, try these ---> [ /]

So we have the Germans as our Sibling and the English as our Mortal Enemy. And we are the Celtic People. That leaves 4 other Tribes on a Standard Map. Is four random Tribes what we want? Maybe more? Maybe less? Should we pick any? Tell me what you think?

I believe 4 random Tribes is fine.

I think we should go with 4 random

no preference on the no. of civs. 4 + the 2 seems fine by me...

A standard standard map has 8 civs, not 7. Player and 7 opponents.

As such, I'd support 2 chosen and 5 random. :)

A standard standard map has 8 civs, not 7. Player and 7 opponents.

As such, I'd support 2 chosen and 5 random. :)

If it's in fact 8... I'm with Daveshack... in all standard opponent slots should be filled.

///////. Hmmm. Not working. (j/k. thanks, Cyc, the [/] makes it all better.)

oh, and the 2+ 5 civs seems right.

Yep, last night when I was trying out DaveShack's trial .bic, I found it was 8. So, 2 and 5 sounds good to me also. Should be a great game.

Yes, let's have every opponent but the Sibling and the Enemy be random!

I think i'd prefer european civs. we could have the obvious:
Celts (us)
Germany (sibling)
England (ME)
then:
Spain
France
Portugal
Netherlands
Russia, Scandinavia, or Byzantium OR
we go in to the bic files or the editor and put austria in. we have all the files, they just need to be in the coding

I think random wins here, billybones27.

I agree, it'll be more exciting that way.

yeah, but we have continents, and the RNG always puts the Iroqouis on the other continent, then they become megapowers. not pretty to see "The rampaging Iroqouis forces have destroyed the Zulu" from the foreign adviser.

If anyone can handle those rampaging Iroquois forces, it's the mighty Celts. Fear not billybones27.

ah, but invading iroqouis when they are on another continent is a challenge, even for the celts. if we start beside them, i'm not worried. if they start near portugal, then i'm worried.
I seem to recall saying the computer cheats when i faced about three stacks of 15 MW as portugal when it was so early that i hardly had any swordsmen or spearmen around.

Yes, but maybe there will be no Iroquois. If there is maybe they will start next to the Mayans. Then you can forget about the Iroquois and worry about the Mayans. I think we have enough Europeans so far. Maybe you should concentrate on how to keep our Sibling from declaring war on us. ;)