This is for everybody except denyd & Cyc of course..







So if one of you two misclicked and got in here:






GET OUT OF HERE








For all others, I hope they enjoy reading this spoiler...

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I hope it is not forbidden to post pics here, before we met ingame. But as we have a locked alliance, I think it should be ok...

If not inform me and I will delete everything immediately...

So here is the start:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDMbeginning.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDMbeginning.jpg)

I tend to settle at the red dotted tiles...

Regarding research:

I already have Pottery & Ceremonial Burial and you have Warrior Code & Masonry, right.

Denyd has Pottery & Alphabet, Cyc has Bronze working & Pottery.

Thus, I would send you Pottery right away.

Regarding a possible sling shot towards Monary, they have a headstart towards Philosophy and we have a headstart towards Polytheism. But they are in the better position here.

So the question is: Do we try for it at all, or should we go towards our military necessities, which is Horseback The Wheel/Horseback Riding for you and Iron Working for me?

If slinghsot, I will start with Myst right away and you should start on Alphabet, if not, I'd go for Bronze Working --> Iron working right away amd you should start with the Wheel...

What do you think? I'll finish the turn in a few hours at the latest.

You should have said GTFO in big letters.

I would say that you should move your settler south, since you will be getting coast and a river city. You also want to work the cows, so do that first.

I think iron working is a higher priority than the Wheel. I think Monarchy is probably a higher priority than the Wheel too, but I'm not sure how best to go about it. If we head straight for Philosophy, then at least we should be able to prevent them from getting Monarchy free - we can force them to select a cheaper tech.

I just thought you'd like to start with Horsemen for upgrading to Riders at some point.

As I didn't a city, yet I didn't start researching.

But I forgot to send you Pottery :blush:--> Next turn...

I propose that I start with Mysticism and you do Alphabet.

I think that either Denyd or Cyc will go for the Wheel for the Iroquios MW. But basically I bet that Denyd will try to go for Philosophy.

Let me know what you think after playing your first turn...

Here's my start, but I haven't finished :shake::

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_Start.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=Start.jpg)

Unfortunately, it looks like this start actually requires some thought, so I'll have to come back to it later. I hate moving unless it is clearly better, but I am leaning toward moving one settler southwest to the incense hill and the other somewhere north/west where it can share the wheat. I don't seem to have too many BGs in my immediate area, so I hate to lose one even temporarily (the settler is on one), but moving a settler toward tundra isn't that appealing either.

Depending on how far away our rivals are, I will try to save the huts until I can pop them by settling next to them.

EDIT - turns out I don't have to drive tonight, so I had a little extra time and just made a decision. One settler SW, the other north, research to Alphabet at, well, I don't have any cities yet either. I see Cyc and denyd both founded their capitals already.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC4000End.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC4000End.jpg)

I started researching Mysticism...

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM3900BC.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM3900BC.jpg)

There is a second source of furs and I found some ivory...there seem to be plenty of rivers around...

According to our positions on the mini map, I assume we are not direct neighbours...

Arrrghh, and I forgot Pottery again...

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC3900.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC3900.jpg)

send pottery...send pottery...send pottery...

that was me before I started the turn...and it worked.

I sent you Pottery :)

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM3850.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM3850.jpg)

I switched to a granary on Elvandar. I thought about chopping the forrests to accelerate the production and get a settler factory as quick as possible...

In Krondor I started a barracks. I am planning to start building veteran warriors there. But I am not 100% sure about that.

Maybe I should start with a warrior for MP and then a worker...

Mysticism is due in 14 turns now...

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC3850.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC3850.jpg)

I'm going to try going granary first in both of my towns with the industrious workers chopping multiple times. I only have +4 fpt that I can share between towns so one of these will be settlers, the other workers.

How did everyone get a second settler so fast?

We had two settlers right from the beginning...

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM3800.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM3800.jpg)

I decided to go for a worker first in Elvandar, then the Granary.

I decided that after taking the screeny, though...

We had two settlers right from the beginning...

Didn't notice, sorry.

Good choice on the worker before granary, I think. I'm a big fan of early granaries and even earlier workers.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM3750.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM3750.jpg)

Worker due next turn, then Granary...

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC3750.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC3750.jpg)

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM3700.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM3700.jpg)

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC3650.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC3650.jpg)

One warrior is heading back home because my capital will culture the hut in a few turns. Some more luxuries appear. Still no sign of the enemy.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM3600.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM3600.jpg)

Hooking up the furs...

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC3500.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC3500.jpg)

I'm going to be popping 2 huts soon - 1 with the spear and the other with my capital's cultural expansion. Maybe you should send me Ceremonial Burial so I don't pop that.

CB sent.......

Thank you kindly. My spearman popped a settler that I'm not entirely sure what to do with now:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC3450Settler.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC3450Settler.jpg)

I'm leaning toward settling where he is and building a curragh or two then workers, but without knowing how far away our rivals are, that could be impossible to defend.

I would not settle there. Just an enemy scouting warrior and all is lost. Head him back.

My opinion...

Settler started on his way back home...

Met the Iroquios:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM3400iroquios.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM3400iroquios.jpg)

I think I will use my spear to pop that hut now...well in three turns to be precise...

Beijing's culture expanded to pop huts, and I couldn't see what I got, but I think it must have been maps since nothing else seemed to change.

Do you want Warrior Code and/or Masonry prior to popping?

Mysticism due next turn...should I send it immediately, or only if they have it?

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM3350BC.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM3350BC.jpg)

Yes, please send me the techs.

I am nothing up towards the Iroquios...

Masonry and Warrior Code are on the way. You can hold on to Mysticism - I'll let you know if I'm about to pop more huts.

Thanks for the techs. I completed Mysticism. Started on Polytheism, due in 24 turns...

I am up Masonry, Warrior Code and Mysticism to the Iroquios...

Currently I am No. 1 in GNP, Manuf. Goods and Population. It seems our opponents already have their first settlers out...

Got a warrior from that hut in the west...

Alphabet due next turn - I'll be starting Writing.

Alphabet due next turn - I'll be starting Writing.

I am aware that it was our original plan to try for the Monarchy slingshot, but if we fail in getting Philosophy, we have wasted a lot of beakers. We could alternatively invest into military tech (maths, BW, IW, wheel, HBR) right now...

I could continue with Monarchy after Polytheism (or do one cheap tech inbetween). I am just not sure whether it's worth the risk of wating beakers (or at least time on military techs). At some time later we want all those techs of course...

I think I'm more relaxed about the military techs because I still haven't sighted any enemies yet :lol:, but I think we can survive without them for now. With 4 tribes on a standard sized map, we have a LOT of room between us. By the time a rival can build say 5 archers and walk them all the way over to one of us, we should easily be able to build enough archers to kill them.

I'd be more concerned if we didn't have Warrior Code either, but I think having archers to kill any units that step into our territory should be sufficient for quite a while. I'd prefer to go ahead with Writing, but if you feel strongly about it, I will put in something else first.

I think I'm more relaxed about the military techs because I still haven't sighted any enemies yet :lol:, but I think we can survive without them for now. With 4 tribes on a standard sized map, we have a LOT of room between us. By the time a rival can build say 5 archers and walk them all the way over to one of us, we should easily be able to build enough archers to kill them.

I'd be more concerned if we didn't have Warrior Code either, but I think having archers to kill any units that step into our territory should be sufficient for quite a while. I'd prefer to go ahead with Writing, but if you feel strongly about it, I will put in something else first.

Alright, you convinced me. But don't think it's that easy always :lol:

No seriously: Go for writing, I just wanted to bring up that topic to have a second thought.

Alphabet sent to you since the Iroquois started with it, but after I sent it, I thought it might be better for you to decline it. We might not want the Iroquois to know that we have Alphabet.

If you want a curragh or are popping a hut, you should probably accept it, but otherwise it might be better to wait.

Writing in 16 now.

Rejected Alphabet, as I am not planning on any hut popping soon...

Granary completed in Elvandar, settler factory set up and running now...

I did a lousy job with exploration - my spears ended up very close together. I'll get some more units to explore to my east soon enough.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC3100.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC3100.jpg)

They now have Mysticism.

I gifted it to you. You can decide whether to take or not.

First settler due next turn. Will hook up the ivory next...

And I will build two or so workers next...Three are very insufficient...

My spear popped barbarians from a hut in the jungle to your north. One already impaled himself on my spear, and I'll try to clean up the other two.

My spear popped barbarians from a hut in the jungle to your north. One already impaled himself on my spear, and I'll try to clean up the other two.

Well, our luck could not hold forever :)

Do you recognize any landmark here? Which way do I have to go?

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDMscout.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDMscout.jpg)

I am going to settle next to that ivory...

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDMhome.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDMhome.jpg)

14 turns till Polytheism...

I don't recognize anything, but from looking at the minimaps, I think the barbarians are further east than your warrior.

I killed one barbarian, but my other spear just popped 3 more.

Nothing special to report...

Popped a skilled warrior from a hut. Writing due in 3. I still haven't met anyone.

I popped another skilled warrior and a map. I also sent you Alphabet this turn. Writing is due in 2, and I still don't know anybody, but I'm curious if the Iroquois have Writing already. If they do not have it, then it should cost 192 beakers for you; if they have it, then it will only be 165 beakers.

It's 165 beakers actually :(.

But I expected nothing else. With 21 GNP I am currently No. 1. So at least we should get Polytheism first. Timing is important, thus we still might have a chance...

Poly due in 6 turns:
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2710BC.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2710BC.jpg)

Third warrior next turn. I think I will do a settler in Krondor inbetween and then again to warriors. Or do you think I should do warriors indefinately?

I'm 2nd in GNP with 20 :), but we are probably all very close together still.

A settler sounds good - we seem to have a lot of room.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC2710.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC2710.jpg)

I guess I'll go for Philosophy next anyway? At least we should be able to prevent them from getting a free government. Philosophy will take me 7 turns after I complete Writing next turn. There doesn't seem to be much urgency for the military techs still, and you should be able to do things like Bronze and the Wheel in 4-5 turns once you finish Polytheism.

Right now it would take me 4 turns to research BW and 5 for The Wheel...

I am still up Masonry & WC on the Iroquios...

I came across an Enkidu. I think we are somewhere north of your territory?

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC2630Sumer.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC2630Sumer.jpg)

Sumeria has Masonry, but they also lack Warrior Code.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC2630Trade.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC2630Trade.jpg)

Here some more detailed information:

Polytheism is due in 2 turns. I think I will give it to you shortly before you finish Philosophy!?

I found the Iroquios border:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2550BCIroborders.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2550BCIroborders.jpg)

I am going to annoy them a bit with my spear :)

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2550BCannoyingspear.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2550BCannoyingspear.jpg)

This is a first thought about settling my place:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2550BCsettlepattern.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2550BCsettlepattern.jpg)

Comments are welcome...

What do you think about a try to make a first assault with Gallic Swordsmen asap after getting iron working? It would take some effort in gold, but could be rather advantageous (spelling?). until we have iron working I can easily build two hands full of warriors to be upgraded. The downside is the very expensive upgrade, of course...

Here some more detailed information:

Polytheism is due in 2 turns. I think I will give it to you shortly before you finish Philosophy!?

:agree: I'll let you know when I'm close.

I am going to annoy them a bit with my spear :)

:yup: They don't have any units with attack greater than 1 yet :yumyum:.

This is a first thought about settling my place:

Settling plans look good. However, if you settle where your settler is now, then you will pop that hut, and you could get barbs - the way the game sees it, you are not popping the hut via settling; you are popping it via culture expansion. Just be sure you are prepared.

What do you think about a try to make a first assault with Gallic Swordsmen asap after getting iron working? It would take some effort in gold, but could be rather advantageous (spelling?). until we have iron working I can easily build two hands full of warriors to be upgraded. The downside is the very expensive upgrade, of course...

I still doubt we will get Monarchy for free. Do you think it might be worth waiting until we have it before starting your Golden Age :dunno:?

Sumeria now has Warrior Code :(.

Could you please send me writing with the next save. I'll pop at least one hut and would not like to get writing from that hut.

Polytheism will be in next turn. I will start with BW after that, if there is nothing against it.

I located San Francisco:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2510BCannoyingspear.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2510BCannoyingspear.jpg)

:evil:

BTW: The Iroquios do not have warrior code, yet...

Writing sent. I guess you should set research to Monarchy temporarily when you pop the hut in case you pop Philosophy. Also, you can check if denyd already has Philosophy - it should be either 144 or 124 beakers.

As for Philosophy: It's 144 beakers.

I popped barbs. think my conscript won't live much longer :(

My spear continued annoying the Iroquios:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2470BCannoyingspear.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2470BCannoyingspear.jpg)

They still do not have warrior code:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2470BCIroquios.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2470BCIroquios.jpg)

I popped some more barbarians, but they are nowhere near my or your territory.

I am still up the mentioned three techs, including warrior code.

Philosophy still is at 144 beakers.

And There is a source of insence that urgently needs protection :evil:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2430BCannoyingspear.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2430BCannoyingspear.jpg)

My first archer completed - still average to you and Sumeria. I don't understand why denyd wouldn't want to build archers :confused:.

Up only Writing on Sumeria.

Spear killed a barb to become veteran.

Philosophy in 2.

Now I am only up Polytheism...

And now I am average to the Iroquios.

Denyd sent reinforcements as a reaction to my spear. At least I think I can forece the worker into safety...

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2390BCannoyingspear.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2390BCannoyingspear.jpg)

Beakers for Philosophy is still 144!!

Do we have a problem with gifting Polytheism next turn? I mean the order of the gifted tech and you researching Philosophy?

No problem - the trade screen pops up before my research completes. We'll see what happens :please:.

I popped 2 more huts this turn - 1 by settling next to it. Both yielded maps of territory I've already explored :sad:.

Polytheism sent.
BW due next turn. Will send that, too.
Then I am going to start Iron Working.

And Philosophy beakers are still at 144!!

And I found Sumerian borders:
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2350BCSumeria.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2350BCSumeria.jpg)

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC2310.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC2310.jpg)

I've got 2 settlers which will complete next turn, so I didn't revolt yet, but at least I can start irrigating and get some growth out of my cities soon. I started the Wheel - it will only take 4 non-anarchy turns.

Revolted right away, as nothing was close to completion.

Sent you BW.

Started with IW

5 turns of anarchy.

I would like to talk a bit about our mid term strategy here. Now that we have Monarchy, I could start building a bunch of warriors for GS upgrades, which are rather expensive of course. Therefore we need to stop research for a certain amount of time. But I think you would like to get to your Riders at some point!? Or do you say, if we can finish the game earlier, that's fine, too?

Basically, I'd propose, we research to IW, HBR and maybe maths for cats and then concentrate on building up military.

Also I have to look up about SoZ. Did we make it a small wonder? Think so. In this case we also would like to build it? If we plan on an early rush, I'd rather invest shields into units. If we plan more long term with an attack I think the SoZ pays out.

What do you think?

I'm fine winning the game whenever we can :).

I don't know if an early war can be decisive. This is a large map for only 4 tribes. It looks like you and the Iroquois can have a nice war, but I don't think I'd be any help against either of our rivals anytime soon. I'll have to post a current minimap of my exploration, but I really seem to be pretty far from any potential action.

It may make sense for you to try to do some damage to the Iroquois - burn their Golden Age while they are still in Despotism, and try to raze a city or two to slow them down, but I don't think we will be able to pull off a quick rout.

A warrior of mine popped a hut and got The Wheel. I sent it to you right away. But as we are up this tech on the Iroquios, it's up to you to accept or decline the tech.

As you saw in the turn tracker of this game I declared on the Iroquios, as I want them to see as less as possible from my territory.

Next turn I am going to be in Monarchy...

I turned down the Wheel this turn. I'll probably ask for it again when I am coming out of anarchy.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC2270.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC2270.jpg)

I am a Monarch now.

4 turns till Iron working. Building barracks in my towns now.

Tell me when you want The Wheel.

Three turns of anarchy still to go, but my one scientist has started accumulating beakers for Mathematics.

Popped a hut and got Code of Laws...

Both of our opponents already have it... (Did they really go for Republic)?

Also both of them have The Wheel now.

Thus, I sent you both techs. I am up Polytheism on both.

My military is weak to everybody now...:shifty:

Interesting - that would explain how we beat them to Philosophy. I guess they are thinking that with the enhanced unit support Republic will be better than Monarchy even with war weariness. They could be right :undecide:.

If they go to Republic, that will definitely put the burden on us to be aggressive - we will have to put them in war weariness (and hope it is not bugged :mad:) to stay competitive.

Thanks for the techs - I am still up Philosophy on Sumeria. There are 2 sources of horses near me:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC2150.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC2150.jpg)

Anarchy ends next turn.

Anarchy over - mathematics due in 7.

Some planning before I play the turn.

I could research HBR within four turns after completing IW this turn.

At the latest after that I want to stop research and gather money for upgrading warriors. Fallling back regarding military strength makes me a little bit nervous here. Thus, I would like to stop reseach as soon as possible.

So there are two options from my point of view:

1. research HBR as quick as possible (4 turn) and save cash afterwards.
2. or start researching HBR at minimum and save cash immediately.

What do you say?

I'd feel much safer with at least the possibility to upgrade warriors to GS.

I don't think there is any urgent need for horseback riding quickly, but if you are going to research something at the minimum, you should probably do something more expensive in case it turns out to be a real 50-turn run. I think Map Making is the most expensive tech available.

For military, I am still average to Sumeria, and I have:

1 veteran archer
2 spears (1 veteran, 1 regular)
7 warriors (5 regular, 2 conscript)

so I don't think you can be too far behind.

IW finished. As both our opponents already have, it I sent it...

Started Map Making at 3 bpt.

Making 28 gpt right now...

I popped a settler halfway around the world from my core.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC2070-2.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC2070-2.jpg)

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC2070.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC2070.jpg)

I think the best thing to do is probably to move him somewhere convenient for you and then give you the city if you can provide me directions on where to go.

The direction seems to be SSE. Have a look.

It looks as if you bypassed the Sumerian territory with your spear:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM2030BClocation.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM2030BClocation.jpg)

And the world seems to have an odd shape. Sueria, Iroquios and I on a kind of ring and you on your own peninsula to the northeast...

Sorry, I forgot to take the screeny until I hit the save button...:blush:

Nothing special to report. That's why I am quiet here right now...

No need to post unless we have something to talk about...

Just let me know when you see something you recognize and have picked out a location for your new city.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1950.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1950.jpg)

Mathematics due in 2 - any thoughts or preferences on what should come next? Or should I just start sending you money for upgrades while doing a minimum run at something? I'm at about 30 gpt or bpt right now.

I found a waypoint...

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1870BCdirections.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1870BCdirections.jpg)

I found the dyes next to the gold hill on your map. you must be somewhere in the dark...so head east from now on. The dyes also will be a nice settling spot :)

I would like it to save money for massupgrading warriors to Gallic Swords...I get 32gpt right now...so every three turns that would be 2 Gallic Swords...plus the gathered cash.

I'd like to get 7-10 Gallic Swords to have a somewhat impressive force...

What do you think about starting either Currency or Construction at minimum research. Maybe we get them for the minimum cost. :dunno:

Or you start on HBR for prebuilds for your Riders!?

I don't really need HBR - I could always use chariots for upgrade to rider if I needed to.

It is tough to come up with a strategy for this map. I seem to have lots and lots of room to expand, but it will take me forever to get to the battlefront. I've started moving some archers toward you, but I'm already wondering if they will be obsolete by the time they arrive.

I think you could end up doing a lot of fighting 1 vs. 2 with minimal help from me at least until we get a connecting road. I'll start a couple workers that way, but there is a lot of ugly terrain between us.

I think we pretty much have to get you whatever you need to get your military big as fast as possible. A minimum run on Currency or Construction is fine with me, and I'll start sending you gold.

Next turn I am going to settle next to the iron and several turns later I'll connect it, although with connecting I am not in such a hurry, yet.

Currently I have 301g in the cashbox and making 33gpt.

Some cover of my homeland by archers while I will attack - probably - denyd would be fine. Due to the ugly terrain, also Cyc can't react and attck me quickly once I started my assault on denyd.

Denyd has some nice locations with cities next to mountains which will be a great spot to attack from.

I think it's a great idea to start building some roads between our nations, although it might tike a lot of time. But here your IND workers will do a great job.

Mathematics completed and sent to you. Sumeria does not have it yet, so your call whether to accept or not.

I turned research off for 1 turn - I'm popping a hut next turn, so I want to have set research to HBR hoping to pop something more expensive.

Did not accept Maths, yet.

I popped another skilled warrior from the huts - I guess I'm going to have lots of MPs this game. Research set to Construction at minimum.

I sent you 100 gold - I'll just keep sending you 100 at a time every few turns until you have what you need.

My popped settler is about 4 tiles away from your circled location - let me know which specific tile you like.

I get 32gpt right now...so every three turns that would be 2 Gallic Swords...plus the gathered cash.


You may still be thinking of our accelerated production game - upgrades should be 90 gold each this game.

You may still be thinking of our accelerated production game - upgrades should be 90 gold each this game.

Sorry, I was already thinking of our combined income ;)

Please settle right on the Dyes, where I marked them. My workers are already roading towards the spot:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDMoverview.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDMoverview.jpg)

Please send me Philosophy and Maths next turn, as I am going to pop a hut...

And thanks for the gold of course!!

I believe and hope that we are going to be able to harm Denyd severely with an early GS rush...

I popped HBR from the hut :) and sent it to you right away, due to the following tech situation:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1725BCIrotechs.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1725BCIrotechs.jpg)

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1725BCSumeriatechs.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1725BCSumeriatechs.jpg)

Within the next 4 turns I'll have iron connected and around 13 veteran warriors available for upgrades. At least we don't have to think about what to do with our money for a while :mischief:

Two of denyds spears are coming close to my territory. I am blocking them with warriors and try to lure them to flat land. Question is whether it is worth a try to attack them with two warriors, IF he moves them to flat land!?

I'd say no - a warrior attacking a spear is less than 20% to win.

Alright.

Next turn I'll complete 3 more veteran warriors. After that I'll have 14 vet warriors ready for upgrades. I'll concentrate on workers and settlers for a while after that to expand a little further. A Golden Age might change that plan of course. In 3 turns the iron will be connected.

How much gold will you have accumulated by then? My cash will be 640 by then. Can you gather 260 for a total of 900? I would expect that 10 Gallic Swords are able to wreak havoc in Iroquios territory. He can't build up a decent defense and offense at the same time. And GS placed on mountains are a challenge even for MWs.

I'm sending you 100 gold this turn. After that I will have 14 + 36 per turn.

My military just became strong to Cyc. I have 12 warriors, 2 spears, and 4 archers.

I am now also strong towards Sumeria.

The Iroquios now have HBR...

I can finally say with certainty that there is no land bridge to the east of me, so I really am alone out here.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1675.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1675.jpg)

I'd like to attack that Enkidu if I get an opportunity. If I win, then there is one fewer Enkidu in the world; if I lose, then Sumeria gets a despotic GA. Sound OK?

Yeah, go ahead...

Here is the situation:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDMGallicSwords.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDMGallicSwords.jpg)

I just upgraded 7 warriors to Gallic swords. Next turn I can upgrade another one.

6 GS are located in Crydee and one in Zun.

I am now strong towards everyone...

Denyd approaches with an archer from the west. In theory he could attack Jabon before I can reach him with my GS. I'll have two warriors in Jabon so he can't capture it (except he also uses the spear). My GS will be able to attack in two turns. I made the mistake to road unimportant tiles, but did not start to connect these towns :sad:. But I will start with that immediately now...

I just hope that denyd has more archers and not too many MW prebuild going.

It seems that my Golden Age is very close now...

Any comments on the situation are welcome...

Thanks you for the town (and the third lux). My towns now can grow to size 5 without MP.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1625paths.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1625paths.jpg)

Some of my workers start roading towards your territory. My warrior will try to keep track of that Enkidu and I sent one GS into that direction.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1625Iroquiosfront.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1625Iroquiosfront.jpg)

On the western front I temporarily splitted my troops to

1. scout the area between our nation
2. get rid of the archer and spear NW of my territory.

But I will gather them before I start my assault on the Iroquios.

If possible, keep the gold comming. I still have enough warriors ready to be upgraded.

My eastern front:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1575Enkidu.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1575Enkidu.jpg)

I can reach the Enkidu within a reasonable time. Even if he starts moving again soon, I should be able to catch up with him.

My western front:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1575tactics.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1575tactics.jpg)

As I expected, denyd has retreated to that mountain with his archer and spear. Thus the main part of my GS start moving towards his territory. I can upgrade about one GS per turn now and add a few cats, thus I should easily be able to keep my territory safe.

Despite of Cycs Golden Age I am still No. 1 in GNP. Also after settling my latest town, I am No. 1 in land area. This maybe means that denyd now concentrates on building military :dunno:

Don't worry about that Enkidu on my account - he is a long way from me, and I'll have him far outnumbered if he comes my way.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1575.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1575.jpg)

Keep enough of a defense so that he can't slip in your back door, but I wouldn't send much to pursue him.

I am now average towards the Iroquios:

The encircled GS removed the Iroquios spear on that hill. Of course that means that I triggered my Golden Age:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1525GA.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1525GA.jpg)

I have right now 4 cities producing GS. Two of them can do 10 spt, two others 8 and 9. After growing the latter two, I should be able to get 10 spt out of them.

Elvandar started building barracks. At size 6, Elvandar will be able to produce 20 spt!!

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1525overview.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1525overview.jpg)

Here the GS approaching Iroquios territory:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1525assault.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1525assault.jpg)

Do you think I should wait with an assault, as I have only 6 GS near denyd right now and wait for more to come, or do you agree with attacking a.s.a.p.??

Please keep the gold comming as long as you have no other use for it. It will enable me to rush units in my towns after all warriors are upgraded.

If you can get on that mountain NE of his city (even if it costs you a GS or two to take it), then I'd push ahead since he has nothing that can defend a city against gallic swords. Since he is average to you, I would be very hesitant to leave a stack of gallic swords on flat land where denyd's mounted warriors can reach them.

As you already expected denyd is not stupid and occupied that mountain:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1500tactical.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1500tactical.jpg)

But my reinforcements are coming quickly and I will continue scouting for a weak gap in their defense. To my north there are two Enkidus, but still far away.

I short rushed a barracks in Elvandar to be completed next turn and in three turns it will be size 6 and making 20 spt.

Welcome back to the game...

I am thinking about restarting research to get to Chivalry quickly now...

I can complete Map making within three turns and then do Currency as quick as possible.

Thus we can use my GA to hurry towards your UU...

I'm fine with restarting research if you don't think the gold is helpful enough anymore. I can do Construction in 8 (although I'll need 24 gold back from you to do that).

We should probably get Literature also before doing any Middle Age techs, and then 1 of us should specialize in libraries and the other in marketplaces.

Sent 24 gold back...

Map Making due in 3 turns.

I have a much faster reseach due to the GA, so what techs should I research after Map making? my proposal is to start with Currency and you go for Literature. So I can make use of my GA and start with a MA tech right away (preferably Feudalism).

Any preferences on who is the cash cow and who is the brain?

Here is an update for the tactical situation. The terrain around the Iroquios territory is horrible. I can't really find a good position from where to attack:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1400BC.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1400BC.jpg)

But at least I can keep him within his territoy which gives you time to expand and build up forces.

Do you have any preference on building Libraries or markets?

I'm having a hard time grasping what our overall strategy should be in this game. I think the tech pace is getting very fast (I can already do Literature in 4 turns after completing Construction), and the distances are large so units become obsolete very quickly.

I should probably be the one building libraries - most likely both of us will want some markets for happiness, and if one of us is building both libraries and markets, then it should be the one further from the front lines.

One of our rivals has Literature, and one has Republic - I don't check every turn, but I noticed both this turn. If they are going to be Republics, we are going to have to cause war weariness to avoid being killed economically, but I don't know how to attack given the tech pace and distances :confused:.

Could you please keep that spear where he is for two turns, so denyd can't flee onto that hill?

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1375spear.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1375spear.jpg)

From the southern Part there is no easy getting through. Just mountains and forrests. Nothing to get an advantage of my quick GS.

But he built a lot of swords. I found 11 of them this turn. Basically I think there is no quick way to win this one. For now I am going to keep him within his territory and try to have a skirmish here and there...

Will have MM next turn. You mentioned that you can do Literature in 4. Then you should do it and I will go for currency.

Map Making complete. Sent with accept. It's up to you whether to accept or decline. But I take it that you won't need it right now.

Started with Currency, due in 4 turns.

Roading progress:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1350roading.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1350roading.jpg)

Found a way to avoid jungle.


And the enemies on the mountain:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1350spearandarcher.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1350spearandarcher.jpg)

Should he decide to leave the mountain, I'll attack right away. Otherwise I just hope that my cats can at least bomb off one hit from of the spear...

The road from my end has reached the mountain chain. We should be connected in about 6-7 turns - I will have incense and wines for you.

Cyc is planning some aggressive settling:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1325.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1325.jpg)

Considering his weak (compared to me) military, I think he is concentrating on expansion, while denyd is busy with building military. I think I can hold denyd within his territory, but without really doing any damage. maybe I should send a couple of GS towards Cyc and surprise him a little bit!?
Within the next 4-5 turns I should be able to send 5-8 GS into his direction.

Cyc is not as careful as denyd is, so I see a real chance to damage him.

What do you think?

If you can damage Cyc without leaving yourself vulnerable to denyd, I'd go for it.

Denyd has mainly swordsmen, thus he is very slow anyway. I'd use my newly build GS and those eliminating that annoying pair of spear & archer...

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1300.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1300.jpg)

The settler is under the Enkidu, and a sword has come down to help.

If they are going to Republic (and they must be, I think), then we probably don't want to research anything more than Chivalry. We can't compete in a fast research game. Do you think it is worth getting Literature and building libraries for Feudalism, Monotheism, and Chivalry? At my current science ability, they would take me 10-11 turns each. Spending 4 turns on Literature before them would certainly save time to get to Chivalry and would save total commerce, but I'm not sure libraries are worth the shields right now.

Probably you are right on research. For us, libraries are 80 shields each. Or 4 archers, or one Rider.

But I would like to research Engineering, too, to get rid of the river problem. That would be four techs in the MA and nothing after that. (We could do minimum research after that, just in case). As I will still be in my GA when entering the MA, I should do Monotheism and you should go for Feudalism.


Here is the situation after the fights:
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1300BCskirmishes.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1300BCskirmishes.jpg)

The regular Enkidu to my NW won't reach that mountain before me. Thus he will be dead soon.

As we are planning not to research very much, do you think that the Statue of Zeus is worthwhile?

Nice battle log :). I think my spear can now move again?

I think the Statue of Zeus is definitely worthwhile. My Forbidden Palace is almost complete, and I've been toying with the idea of making that just a wonder city. I was thinking Pyramids first, but actually I completely forgot about the Statue of Zeus.

Do you remember what the rules are for the Statue of Zeus in this game? I think denyd often likes to make it a small wonder, but I don't remember if we are doing that in this game or not.

Standard size map
4 tribes - 2 vs. 2
Pangaea
No accelerated production
No SGL's
Statue of Zeus a minor wonder that needs horses
Knights Templar a minor wonder that needs iron
Increased unit support- what does this mean exactly? make it so all gov't have really high unit support? if so, how much exactly?


These are the setting. This means everybody can build both, SoZ and Knight Templar...

And yes, your spear is allowed to move again ;) Thanks!

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1275.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1275.jpg)

There are 2 workers under that sword.

Currency next turn. I f I am not wrong, I should send the techs next turn to get into the MA, right. Or do you prefer to research Literature before changing ages?

However, I need the techs a.s.a.p., to be able to start research on Monotheism quickly.

A bunch of GS is heading towards that new Sumerian cities. If you have some archers as support, it would be nice. My units will arrive in around 6-7 turns:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1275BCSumeria.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1275BCSumeria.jpg)

I think your workers have to move south now to reach mine:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1275BCroad.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1275BCroad.jpg)

When we connect the road I will have furs available and will try to connect the dyes by Malac's Cross asap, but there is jungle to be roaded...

Construction will be completed next turn, and I will send it to you immediately. I guess there isn't a good reason to build libraries right now, so you might as well send me the other techs, and I will start on Feudalism right away.


A bunch of GS is heading towards that new Sumerian cities. If you have some archers as support, it would be nice. My units will arrive in around 6-7 turns:


In that time frame, the best I can do near that city is 2 archers. It isn't much, but they are on their way.

Sent you Currency & Map Making...stopped research for one turn.

Started building SoZ in my capital (want to make use of the 22 shields as long as possible)

Statue of Zeus due in 12, Feudalism due in 11.

In three turns, I will have 7 GS on the marked mountain. Two turns later I'd be able to attack the city.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1225BCgathering.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1225BCgathering.jpg)

After growing to size 8, Elvandar is capable of producing 26 shields :smug:

SoZ due in 7 turns and Monotheism in 8.

I just checked the spoiler thread and recognized that my Golden Age started in 1525BC. If the initial turn is counted, 8 turns remain. That means, I can complete SoZ, The Forbidden Palace and get Monotheism in time :)

Now I have 7 GS on the mountain S - S of the Sumerian spice city:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1150BCSumeriaattack.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1150BCSumeriaattack.jpg)

If you need another turn to get archers nearby I can move the the neighbouring mountain.


Here I saw a chance to get a mountain under controll and even if it's only for a turn and to force denyd to attack me:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1150BCIroquiosbeforeattack.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1150BCIroquiosbeforeattack.jpg)


I succeeded in beating that warrior and now have two GS on that mountain. And for the unlikely case that I can hold the mountain, I have two more in next turn.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1150BCIroquiosafterattack.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1150BCIroquiosafterattack.jpg)

Denyd seems to avoid a GA by building many swords and only few MW. But I find it rather positive, as the swords are just slow.

I should be able to send the second lux within 4 turns.

2 archers and a spear are there now...

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1150.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1150.jpg)

Do you know how the healing works in multiplayer? If you attack first, will his units be healed by the time it is my turn?

Do you know how the healing works in multiplayer? If you attack first, will his units be healed by the time it is my turn?

Not 100% sure, but I would think that units are healed at the end of the turn :dunno:. Problem is that maybe they are healed when it's Cyc's new turn. That would be a problem of course :sad:

Denyd was really lucky with the RNG. He killed three GS on mountains with only losing two of his troops.

Well, at least his GA triggered now. But still I am No. 1 in the important disciplines.

Next turn I will attack Cycs' town with seven Gallic Swords.

I hope that this is not going to end in a desaster :shifty:

I have 2 archers defended by a spear who will be able to attack Cyc on my next turn.

Denyd's golden age will continue long after yours, so make sure you stay safe first.

We also have a lone sword wandering in the direction of our road:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1100.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1100.jpg)

You are right.

I will try not to do battles that make no sense. I will not further advance towards Sumerian territory. I will try to keep denyd, where he is and await the dawn of your Riders :)

I am setting up a detection net to see any Iroquios troops that want to get away from their territory. and on the encircled mountain I have a road and will now build a fortress. I also have a bunch of cats in Natal, which can be there quickly if denyd moves any units towards that location:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1100BCtacticsIroquios.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1100BCtacticsIroquios.jpg)

Here was the Sumerian city:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1100BCSumeriancityrazed.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1100BCSumeriancityrazed.jpg)


My military and workers:
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1100BCF3.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1100BCF3.jpg)


F11:
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1100BCF11.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1100BCF11.jpg)

I am going to get Monotheism in 2, SoZ in 2 and Forbidden Palace in 3 turns.

Great job with your Golden Age! My military is just a little bit weaker :mischief::

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1075F3.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1075F3.jpg)

But I'm holding my own on F11 considering I think all 3 of you are in your Golden Age:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1075F11.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1075F11.jpg)

I just completed the Forbidden Palace, Feudalism is due in 3, and the Statue of Zeus will be completed in 6.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC1075Home.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC1075Home.jpg)

How strong is your "military" compared to Cycs?

I am not sure about Cycs Golden Age. I think you triggered it with an archer attack. And I think it was before mine started. So probably his GA already ended.

As soon as your GA starts I am looking forward to seeing Riders all over the place :).

Considering that denyd is in his GA, your numbers look quite well.

I'm weak to everybody and have been for a while.

Feel free to ask denyd for my save file, as I am probably not able to play another turn before leaving tomorrow.

I'll PM you my password...

I think the basic strategy is clear. I am going to turtle in until you have your Riders. I do Engineering after Monotheism and you do Chivalry. I think that was the plan.

You didn't miss an awful lot. Your gallics killed a few stray enemy explorers, but they mostly stayed where they were. You completed Monotheism a turn or two ago - please send it to me this turn as I am about to complete Feudalism, and I will start Chivalry as planned. Do you want Feudalism, or do you want to keep the ability to build more Gallics?

I am now weak towards the Iroquios:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1025BCF3.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1025BCF3.jpg)

My GA has ended, putting me into 2nd and 3rd position at some disciplines. I think I will try to expand more now. I sent you Monotheism. I do not want Feudalism right now. 10 turns for Engineering.

When are you going to start building up military? I think denyd is going to start putting pressure on me soon. On the positive side, I think he is a careful player, which should give me some time before he really is going to attack me.

But putting any shields into economy right now could be dangerous, I fear. Thus, I will continue building units in my more productive cities for a while.

I just can hope that he could catch up militarywise due to not investing into wonders, like I did. (~10 Gallic Swords fewer than I could)

What do you think?

I am #1 in most F11 categories now - the despotism penalty is making denyd's Golden Age much weaker than it should be. Since denyd will see he is #2 (or #3 in some disciplines), he may think he is being outproduced by you and will be very hesitant to attack.

I have 8 turns until Chivalry. I'm building a few horsemen for upgrade now, but once Chivalry comes in, research will be off, and there should be nothing but military at that point (maybe 1 town devoted to a couple of the better wonders). Do you think that is soon enough?

I think we both should soon consider expanding up more instead of out. Maybe devote 1 city at a time to building a marketplace and then add workers to get our cores to size 12? I only have 4 luxuries still so I could use 1 more. I have located 2 sources of silks and have started a road, but they are not close, and it will probably take me at least 10 turns to connect them. Do you think you might be able to claim the spices that Cyc tried to take, or is that too dangerous?

I think you should be OK from denyd for a while. Your gallics and catapults are underrated by the military advisor, and I think denyd will have a hard time approaching your territory with nothing better defensively than spears.

After finishing my Forbidden Palace and the growth of several towns, it's looking better again:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM1000BCF3.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM1000BCF3.jpg)

I am back to average towards the Iroquios. He'll think twice before really attacking me. I think you are right about it.

I fully agree to your plan regarding expanding up. I switched to a market in my Capital as it anyways has an odd number of shields for Gallics (15).

I will send a settler towards the spices soon, although it might be dangerous. But it should be worth the risk. The only problem is the road Cyc already has built there. But anyway, it will take me several turns to get a settler and a road there.

On my last turn, I was even No. 1 in MFG :eek:

They are both Medieval now.

Cyc is in Anarchy:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM950BCF3.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM950BCF3.jpg)

Both do not have Monarchy, Monotheism:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM950BCMA.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM950BCMA.jpg)

Could you check how about Feudalism? Just want to know about Cycs free tech.

Could you send me Feudalism one turn before Chivaly completes, so you can send them in two subsequent turns?

Cyc doesn't have Feudalism either so he must have gotten Engineering.

My Statue of Zeus is complete - prebuild for Knights' Templar started :).

Chivalry is due in 4.

Yeah, it's Engineering. Just recognized that it got cheaper :)

Due in 2 turns...

I find denyds luck amazing. All of my Gallic swords he killed were fortified on a mountain...

Here is the situation:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM875BCbattleground1.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM875BCbattleground1.jpg)

I just can hope that I didn't make a mistake, but I had to do some damage to him.

I think I sacrificed the southern GS, but otherwise he could have captured the two undefended cats on the mountain with his MW.

I just can hope that there are not too many MWs hiding in oakland ready to attack my stack on that mountain and that my cats with defensive bombard can stop him from eliminating that stack. :please: Otherwise this game would get critical already.

EDIT: I sent you Engineering and turned off research for now 106 gpt. And I need the gold to rush units now...

Feudalism is on its way to you. Chivalry will be in next turn.

Cyc is now in Republic...

In three turns I will have spices for you...

I think it's better to let the RNG matter drop, before it get's a shabby discussion....

The first two riders (and first ancient cavalry) have hit the road - now I just need to find something to kill :hammer:.

What's the general plan of attack? Denyd seems stronger than Cyc - do you want to double team denyd, or do you just want to keep denyd occupied while I try to kill Cyc then gang up on denyd?

What's the general plan of attack? Denyd seems stronger than Cyc - do you want to double team denyd, or do you just want to keep denyd occupied while I try to kill Cyc then gang up on denyd?

The latter option would be my preference. Go and kill Cyc and I will hold out against denyd. I will put on a defensive stance against him from now on.

Both of them lack Feudalism and Monotheism, thus it will take them quite a while to get to knights. Probably around 15-20 turns I'd say. Moreover they do not have any pikes, yet.

Back to average towards denyd...at least he is not running away with military might. Next turn I'll get two knights. This allows me to switch my capital from units to Knights Templar to be completed in 11 turns.

Could you post your F11 screeny just for information after your next turn, please. I'll also do so after my next. But I am mainly second in most categories.

If you are #2 in most categories, then we are probably doing OK :mischief:.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC800F11.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC800F11.jpg)

This shows that you had time to develop your territory and economy. On the other hand Cyc seemed to have the same time...;)

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM775BCF11.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM775BCF11.jpg)

Denyd now has Feudalism. Cyc does not, yet. Both still lack Monotheism.

I sent you spices & 1gpt. Put the one gold on the table and the deal is perfect ;)

I'm not sure what you are trying to do with the trade. I think what we want is you give me spices, and I give you 1 gpt - that way the deal doesn't auto-expire in 20 turns.

Sure, but I thought, I pay the 1 gpt back

I didn't know it was possible to trade gpt for gpt :hmm:.

Please post a picture of whatever you know of Cyc's land. As you can see, I am completely ignorant of that area of the world.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC750.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC750.jpg)

I'll give you pics with my next turn. I think I have some interesting information.

Wow, your Golden Age seems to have a most impressive impact. 273gpt :eek:

The thought of researching towards Military Tradition always goes through my mind. Not sure whether it would be a good idea, though. with your GA, it should be possible in a good time. If you think that's nonsense, I am fine with that two...

Here is an overview of what I can see of the Sumerian Empire:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM730BCSumeria.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM730BCSumeria.jpg)

And this is a closer view of Kisurra and surroundings, which might be a good starting point. Kisurra and the two towns east of it are all built on flat ground:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM730BCSumeriaclose.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM730BCSumeriaclose.jpg)

denyd got to my undefended back door. But I hope the situation is ot hopeless:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM710BCIroquoisassault.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM710BCIroquoisassault.jpg)

15 Mounted Warriors are able to take (and probably raze) Durbin. I could draw 11 units into the town consisting of Knights (2) MIs (3) and the rest Gallic Swords. But that would invite him to attack and destroy allmost (or) all my troops. My plan is to draw the 11 units onto the mountain S of Durbin. And if he sends in his troops (most probably only one unit to raze the city), I can eliminate that unit(s). I have 5 more units that are not able to reach the mountain, but can get into reach for the next turn. Furthermore I can shortrush 3 knights, but only two of them could reach the battle zone within the next turn.

I did not yet play the turn and will do so tomorrow morning. What do you think of the plan?

Ouch. I agree about not defending Durbin. Moving onto the mountain is definitely safe for you and would probably make him retreat his units (except for the one to attack Durbin).

I wonder if you could move enough units onto the mountain to make it too painful for him to attack directly, but still not reveal your available strength. It would be great if he pushed all of his units forward where you could attack him.

Actually, maybe you should just leave the mountain south of Durbin undefended. He can only reach it with mounted warriors, and they would still only defend at 2 even on the mountain. Your Gallics would be over 70% to win and knights over 80% (MDI win only lose about 20%, but the mounted warrior retreats 40%). If he gets greedy enough to move his stack there, then you could do a lot of damage to him. You would have to leave most of your units out of sight from that mountain this turn, and he may not fall for it, but it's a thought :dunno:.

Alright, here is the situation after my turn is played:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM710BCIroquoisassault2.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM710BCIroquoisassault2.jpg)

I have all these units in reach of the mountain plus two knight which I short rushed in towns nearby. All except the MIs can reach the town next turn.

All the trebs could bombard the mountain, if necessary to get off some hits.

I short-rushed two more knights in two farther towns (encicled).

I used up all my cash to rush the four knoght. Could you send me some cash, if I need furthr rushing next turn, please? I'll return it at the end of my turn then.

Furthermore I will reduce my number of units in my spice town to a minimum. Please have a unit or two in reach to protect it.

Don't worry about returning the gold - even if you don't need it, if you have a good place or two to use it without wasting too much, go ahead and use it. I'd just be rushing units with it also.

My military is still laughable (but growing), but I have already reached average to Cyc:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC710.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC710.jpg)

Silks will be coming your way in 2-3 turns.

It seems he stepped into the trap. Even better, all his MW were located in the town!

I had exactly the 15 units in reach that I needed.

I am now average to denyd :)

I think that must have been most of his MWs, as I know he has quite some swords. This will slow him down a bit.

Awesome :thumbsup:!!

I'm up to 10 riders, and I am strong to Cyc but still weak to you and denyd. I established an embassy and sent right of passage. If your exploring warrior goes north then east, then he can travel that road to the north, but he'll probably have to stop once he reaches the first intersection to avoid getting in the way of my units.

Kisurra has been cut off from Sumer proper.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC630.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC630.jpg)

The riders are everywhere :run:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC590.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC590.jpg)

I may lose a couple riders on flat land, but Cyc's iron is no longer connected to the rest of his cities:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC570War.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC570War.jpg)

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC570Iron.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC570Iron.jpg)

Knights Templar completed.

Cyc now has Chivalry...

I am again weak towards denyd. But my markets are complete and now I am starting to catch up with denyd.

I briefly reached average to you, but I disbanded a couple warriors to speed riders so I ended the turn weak again. Cyc's core could be in a bit of trouble:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC550.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC550.jpg)

Before I played:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC530Pre.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC530Pre.jpg)

Here is another source of iron on that mountain, protected by 3 Enkidus:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM510BCIron.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM510BCIron.jpg)

I am average towards denyd, but I tend to wait for you before attaching him. He is not as easy to overcome as Cyc, I am sure...

I am average to denyd now too :D

That iron is connected to Agade, but that city has been cut off from the rest of Cyc's cities so no other towns can build iron units.

330 BC - here is Cyc's territory following the sacking of Sumer:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC330.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC330.jpg)

As of the beginning of my turn, I was strong to denyd and still average to Calis. After losing a few riders in my attack, I fell back to average to denyd.

You have a Palace prebuild going on in my coastal town of Krondor. Did you plan on something specific (like the Collossus)?

I think the overall plan is that you eliminate Cyc and I keep denyd back, until we can attack him together, right?

Yes, I was planning to build the Colossus there. And, yes, that is still the game plan. Cyc is buckling, and I have lots of riders now, and I will start razing more and more cities soon.

Denyd gifted a town to Cyc:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_giftedtown.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=giftedtown.jpg)

Cyc abandoned his capital:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC250.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC250.jpg)

That was very kind of him since I was hesitant to attack it since it was size 8.

I'm going to try to take Agade this turn. Akshak should fall next turn, and it will be on to denyd. It looks like a long way to get to denyd's territory from where I am especially without roads, but probably around 10 turns from now, I will have a stack ready to attack denyd from the north, so maybe you should try to get ready to attack from the east at around the same time.

Edit - Attack on Agade failed, but I'll capture it with other units on the way south. It shouldn't delay my arrival at denyd's.

Cyc has abandoned everything in the north, so all units are on their way toward denyd.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC230.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC230.jpg)

I am now strong towards the Iroquios.

As I don't see much danger from Cycs troops I am moving all knights towards denyds territory.

The skirimish with denyd was just a successful little trap and as the captured worker completed a road before being captured, I was able to bombard his troops on the mountain. Now my troops own that mountain, which is a good point to start an invasion.

I am think about upgrading my GS to MI, as my advance (including trebs) will be slow anyway. The better attack value might be more important than the speed. What do you think?

I am strong to the Iroquois now too :)

Assuming you are going to be fighting fortified pikes, MDI are roughly 1/2 win and 1/2 lose. Gallics are roughly 1/3 win, 1/3 lose, and 1/3 retreat :dunno:. I'd probably keep them as Gallics, but it is a tough call.

Please give me a short notification, 2 or 3 turns before you reach Iroquios territory to enable me to rush a few more knights and get all of my troops into position.

I think I will first be able to attack him in 50 BC.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC150.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC150.jpg)

I'll be attacking denyd the turn after next:

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC90.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC90.jpg)

My SoD is in position to attack next turn:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDMattackstack.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDMattackstack.jpg)

It's a stack of 75 units, including 20 trebs, mainly knights, several Gallic Swords and several ancient cavalry.

Here is a shot of what I can see of the Iroquios territory:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/th_SABERDM50BCIroquiosterritory.jpg (http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr295/Calis2/?action=view&current=SABERDM50BCIroquiosterritory.jpg)

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/th_BC50.jpg (http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/Chamnix/?action=view&current=BC50.jpg)

The Iroquois stack in the south has 25 units - a mixture of knights and mounted warriors. I'll probably take heavy casualties and lose Modesto back, but once that stack is gone hopefully there will be minimal resistance.