The Basic Rules have been moved to the Combined Rules Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=565618#post565618)

*heaves sigh of relief*
OK, they're all fine. But the force save anyone wanting as second buisness.

Caveats

These are the official rules that the RPG is officially starting with. None of the polls reached quorum but they did show general acceptance of the first proposed ruleset and stronlgy mixed opinion on which salary base to use. I don't think we will get quorum levels on most of our polls as only a relatively few citizens are playing the RPG at this time.

Two basic changes were made from the original rule proposal. Many people have a difficult time recognizing 10g as a large sum of money. I have increased the economic base by x10. This should help with grasping the value of money.

The largest bone of contention was whether to pay per turn or per chat. The poll that was to decide this was generally inconclusive and showed a large amount of support for both systems. I've put both in here and given each player the option of which to use. Average pay is the same if there are 10 turns per chat.

1000gold?
what happened to the starting with 100 gold if we start with 100 gold then we should have to charge for the first buisiness

Originally posted by BCLG100
1000gold?
what happened to the starting with 100 gold if we start with 100 gold then we should have to charge for the first buisiness
Everything was increased a factor of 10 to help people relate to the value of their money. I made it a simple factor so you can just add a zero to the end of your established prices.

word doc, please.
so that i can work w/ vhs on it.
also, i need a citizen spreadsheet to do updates on.
that is all.
SaaM- Bank Head, Deputy Minister of Peace, Deputy RPG Manager/

where do we state which payment method we prefer?
or will it be decided somehow?
i would prefer having all citizens on the same method for equality.

okay, if both the manager n the dep manager disagree with this, duznt it mean smthin? can we veto that? i like 100 gold n 10/1 for the payment. this makes evr1 hav 2 redo there thing.

? and now the 2nd try in english please ;-)

we will need to redo anyways, because some calculated with a per turnchat base and some with a per turn base. it was an error we did not state it clearly so it was mizzunderztood.

what do you mean with 10/1 for the payment?!?

you cant veto citizen decission if there was any about this. so put it up for a official binding poll and get citizen acceptance ;-)

the 10/1 is using 5 instead of 50 (see top)
also, im motioning towards changing that. it will mean hell for us in the bank

SAAM! How Dare you say things like that about me! I agree with what Shaitan proposes and YOU think that I agree with you. For I in the present work that the bank, and it will not mean what you say it does for the people in the bank, including me. Claiming htings about other people is the height of arrogance! That and then you're saying I can't adapt to a simple change! I'll let you know that one of my greatest skills is adaptability, and I will not have any major difficulties. Thus, I expect you to refrain from stating things about me without prior permission! Good Day!

And 2nd of all Saam! Your posts are full of abbreviation, loss of vowels etc. This makes it difficult for others to understand you. Please refrain from this as well!

@curu lol lol

This is no laughing matter Bclg! I'm trying to be serious!

so was i i was laughing at the way you got so steamed up and had ago at his abrreviations

well Haply I don't appreciate being laughed at when I'm angered already!

i wasnt laughing at you i was laughing at what you said to stuck
pats curu on the head

Laughing at something I've done (said in this example) is tantamount to laughing at me!

I didn't do it in word. I did it in notepad. You can get the notepad version by "quoting" the post and copying the parts you need.

curu, calm down please. BCLG100 did not mean any offense and has already explained that.

Incidentally, I appreciate your support (and understanding!) of the scale change.

okay. i still want this in word doc and what did i do?
note my use of vowels.
also, curu- are you still good for the loans office?

Just copy and paste it into Word. The formatting will come over.

Yes Saam, I'm more than good for the loans office.

I'd just like to take a moment and thank everyone who braved the endless bickering, bantering, bothering, and other buffoonery to get to this point. You are all wonderful, brave, intelligent people and I applaud your stamina.

Now, let's play!

@curu earlier i wasnt laughing at you i was just laughing at your insult and did not think that you would take it so seriousley besides why would a deputy laugh at a leader?

Some questions on topic:
* We have people in the rpg which already got things, how will this be reflected?
Is everyone braught back to a plain start to buy things again with the new prices (this is what i would prefer)?
* Where will we post a) which payment method we prefer and b) how will the bank manager know?
* Will the bank give us a list of accounts and the balances? or do we have to keep track of it ourselves?
* When do we start? We already had a chat... so we must have earned some money! (Ff we consider the startup as a real chat, what we must do, we even had 2 chats!)

My opinions are not necessarily those of the RPG Managers but I recommend the following:

Transactions made on the old standard can either be carried through (if agreeable to both parties) or cancelled if either party wishes.

Post your payment selection to the bank.

I sure hope the bank is keeping accounts. That's the whole purpose of the bank! :lol:

We've already started. Salary is per chat unless you specify per turn so we have had 2 chats so far.

Tanks, thas al i wandet do noh!

here are the rules in word doc format

also, remind the businesses about the standard change. with all luck, the new site will be up today.

Could we get the link to the webpages again? Is it a rpg-webpage or a bank-page?

I would like to thank everyone who got this started ever through alot of the information was inside my computer and had not been realeased yet :).... Through my real unluckiness I got into a car accident and was in the hosipital for over a week. I didn't get to see everything get started up and I got replaced in so far all of my jobs :) (Don't fell sorry or anything like that[for me losing all my jobs] I thought it was quite funny)

I was afriad for alittle while that you guys would give up and cancel it all. I am really glad that you decided to put alot of work into it and to get my idea made up.

Thank You Everyone!!!

well we havnt done that well we had been arguing for over a week oer the rules then nitty picky bits from then on

Well, in fact we got a ruleset up and running, just i think some preparations should be speeded up... wheres our bank accounts :-P ?

if i liquidate my business, does that mean i lose the building? cause i wanna just sell my stock and change to something else. Would that be liquidating or sellin?

P.S. Get well soon Strider :) ;) :D

selling. pure selling. the bank would be willing to buy these items, but only at the price you bought them. also, since its a bank sale, you would keep 100 precent of the profit.
also, i may not be able to make the tc. remember- your the chat rep.
iron/alpha/writing/lit

ok. but what if i grew my items? will they be sold at store cost, they are realtivily cheap though.

Selling the shop
Businesses can be sold or liquidated. When liquidated, 50% of the Place of Business costs are returned to the seller. If sold to another private owner the price is negotiated. The buyer will then need to pay normal legal startup fees but will not have any Place of Business expenses.

Why should the bank buy those things? I think there should be a "wholesale" for the shop... and if something is left, it is thrown away :-P
Unless you find someone to buy the whole shop, but this one would have to pay something then...
Remember: As the bank is a rpg-office, it doesnt "earn" money. The 20% for example deducted from income is considered Tax and expenses. Not bank profit!

never know, it could be :p

the banks profit is used to fund public projects. its just a stat, mainly.

What is the status of buying/selling real estate? Any progress?

saam: where does the bank take profit from?

Making money
Prices and profit are determined by the sale price of goods and services. Manufacturers keep 60% of the money received for their product. The other 40% is assumed to go for upkeep of property, salaries for employees, rent, material costs, machinery, etc. Resellers keep 60% of the money received for sales. The other 40% is absorbed by the cost of doing business, just like manufacturers. Services keep 80% of the money received for services as they have a much lower cost of doing business.

As you see, no money of those the income is reduced with go to the bank.

The only way for the bank to earn money would be if you give loans out and make money with the interest.

You doesnt the bank give away savings account interests? This way you could "load" money from your customers to work and get profit out. Like real banks do ;-)

Example:
You could pay 10 for every 1000 gold to your customers. Now if you use give those 1000 to someone else as loan for 30 for evey 1000, for 3 tc'S, you would have earned 20.
Using this would also include the bank can NOT just get money out of nowhere to give it to customers, as it is now.

The Bank and all official stores are NPC businesses. They do not make profit. Their managers do not get any special monetary benefit besides the +1 as an RPG helper.

who says the bank isnt making money?
where do you think the tc money comes from. The hut on the right (across from the hut on the left (science hq) is a mint. We make the Fanatikan ***name to be decided by citizen poll*** (money) there. So we keep some of it for us. Thats were we get buyout money from.

so i can sell all of my items where?

how about in striders auction house other than that i dont know maybe back to the person you bought it off

I have a few questions that I want to ask:

1. When are we going to start the RPG? Or is the RPG already started?

2. Where can we see are salary's?

we have started sort of stuck has not posted te salarys yet

SAAM - The bank has all of the money in the world. It does not need to track income. The bank is simply a transaction center for the players.

and no we can not have people robbing the bank

Through a couple of hours of searching through the RPG sub-forum I came up with what we still need:

#1 A RPG registry where people who want to particaptate post the required information

#2 A salary thread where you can see all the citizens salary.

#3 A thread where business's can post their stats(what was bought etc.)

OPTIONAL:

#1 Real Estate

Strider:
Needed-
1- in works
2- bank of barviaria's excel downloads (updated weekly)
3- FRA

optional-
any takers?

strider for numbe r 3 thats what the item keeper does and if you want strider you could be real estate work out all the kinks before you post it though

and to real estate: we should start traveling charges first... we will soon have shops in different places, and transporting things from a to b must cost something ;-)

also, the main rpg-shop will be located in the capitol and i propose a branch in the location of the FP. so the prices will go up because of transportation in relation to distance from capitol and FP.

dis were not even sure if were doing it yet

Originally posted by Stuck_As_a_Mac
Strider:
Needed-
1- in works
2- bank of barviaria's excel downloads (updated weekly)
3- FRA

optional-
any takers?

Only problem with that is that some people might not have excel (I do, but I said some people)

Sure I'll do the Real Estate :)

Proposal for the bank: also put a plain text post with the end balances in the thread ;-) shouldnt be so much work out of excel.

Quick Q.... Am I considered an RPG manager or RPG assistant? I'm Sub-manager and Real Estate Agent.

The managers were elected. Were you elected? No=Assistand ;-)
At least i believe that... The max would be head of office for a nonelected person.

Addition to the rules:
The business owners may hold back their transactions until TC. All transactions upto the start of the TC-Day must be posted, the Transactions of the TC-Day itself may be delayed until the next TC.

the yes-no polling services is considered an office of the legal services firm.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31775

now as i see it, this law firm is not a private business any more, as it builds offices. i think a rankup of that business is urgently needed.

so i would say we should also make a rule that private businesses can not have any branch offices?

If it's a question of terminology I can change it. We liked YN&A because it was sort of funny (Yes, No & Abstain Polling Service). Eklektikos is an employee of AP&N and is handling all of the polling contracts. It's all still one happy family in the same building, etc. Still a private business with one owner.

Well, so just clarify it... Opening a new office should cost you something though...

Now for a rule proposal:
Additional Office: 1/2 of the startup cost of a second business of the same type and size.
(or 1/4? or 1/3)?
If we dont get this, we will soon have firms with 20 threads... for example i could open a pub in every city ;-)

Also, we need a clarification in the rules what the different size-types are.

Hmmm...

Good point. I hadn't thought of that. Restrict Private businesses to a single thread? Private companies to 1 per partner. Public companies and corporations would get what?

Or just as i said: Charge per office opened. If a business like a marketplace or something needs a business in every city, it must pay so. This will prevent some businesses to go to other cities and together with transportation fees for good give other people the opportunity to open a business in the same business area without intervening with the other business.

Like another pub in another city, which even may sell my beer but naturally because of the transport costs will be more expensive, would naturally tend to open a own brewery when far away from the capitol where i am located.

strider no i am manager you have pretty much the same amount of ability to do stuff as me but have to have sub infront of your name

Originally posted by BCLG100
strider no i am manager you have pretty much the same amount of ability to do stuff as me but have to have sub infront of your name

Just wanted to make sure, because most business's around here the sub-manager gets the same amount of money as the manager.

im not bothered i dunno how much i get to be quite honest im too busy making sure everything runs smoothely as possible to notuce such things

The RPG Managers have agreed on the following rules changes:

Resources:
A manufacturer that owns or has access to a tile with the resources required for their product keeps 80% of their product instead of 60%.

Raw goods manufacturing:
A manufacturer can produce raw goods instead of a product. Raw goods are things like cut stone, leather, grain, horses, etc. This business type is a Primary manufacturer. A Secondary manufacturer then turns those raw goods into a finished product. The amount that the Secondary manufacturer pays the Primary manufacturer for raw goods is taken directly out of their cost of doing business.

Example:
Bob's Bridge Builders is a Secondary manufacturer and they build a basic plank bridge to sell to Brigit's Bridge Shop (the reseller). They charge Brigit's 200g for the bridge. They make 60% profit, or 120g and 80g is "lost". Wendel's Woodsmen starts up business producing cut wood. Bob starts buying his raw goods from Wendel. Instead of that 80g being lost, it goes to Wendel.

Normalization of the economy:
The total amount of gold in all accounts will be tallied and tracked each time the bank accounts are updated. If this total amount falls below a certain amount a "tax rebate" will be issued to bring the overall economy to the desired level. This rebate will be weighted by relative wealth so poor folk will get a larger refund than rich ones.

So by using your example above, Shaitan, if the BLM were to supply Falcon02's business with limestone blocks for his walls, then the bookkeepping would be:

Falcon's Walls cost 1000g
BLM would get the 40% of this (that would normally go to taxes)
BLM would then pay 20% of this in taxes (80g).

Am I reading this correctly?

Yes, and that's how the Acroama/BLM relationship functions right now. This is being refined in the rules discussion thread and will likely change to where half of the normal cost of goods loss can be applied to resources and half to labor. For right now though, it's just as you noted.

hey. I'm not all to hot about playing your demeo game, but could I take part in this? sounds like fun

Sure, jump right in. You start with a small house in the capital, a riding horse and some clothes. You also start with 1000g in the bank and will earn 100g per chat as a base salary. (I suggest putting your account with Bank of Valhalla).

hummmmm....
I think I'd rather read thought more about this before I start up if you dont mind.
I'm also thinking about hopping into your demeo game. I had a SpazzAttack earlier when a tread of mine was locked, and joining your game would be the perfect revenge :)

it doesnt matter whenever you decide to join just sign your name into the rpg registery and have fun

quick Q, what happens if I run out of money? am I sacaraficed to the sun god, or the moon god, or the god of spazzin?

uhm well you can take out a loan or if you are seriousley in debt the managers have to decide what is going to happen

The restriction against moderators being paid for positions held has been removed. The change was approved by 3 RPG Managers, in accordance with the rules.

Approving Managers: SAAM, donsig, BCLG100

Dissenting Manager: Octavian X

So is now the moderator payed 40g/tc + the office amount?

Yes, as long as the office amount isn't 40g. Mods are allowed one payment from each pay level, same as everybody else.

k' with me then.

uhm new rule

how about unless something is done anyone can use anyone elses idea and call it the same thing at the momanet they can but if we make it a rule that to stop this it has to be copyrighted it would be better and i havnt explained that very well but i thiink you get the idea

it is common courtesy not to take someone else's ideas, that is why I do not see the reason for copyrights.