I had the idea to have a FfH Divine Intervention in the Story section.It works by having a player play the game and several other forumers being Gods or Goddesses and taking things to Worldbuilder level.

I'm up for suggestions if you'd like to help.

You can do things slightly outta character as long as it's not against anything they stand for.(Thanks kenken244)

You can be

Lugus-Angel of Light
Sirona-Angel of Wisdom
Nantosuelta-Angel of Faith
Sucellus-Angel of Life(Formerly Nature)
Amatheon-Angel of Fertility
Junil-Angel of Justice-PaulusIII

Arawn- Angel of Death-Methuselah
Oghma- Angel of Knowledge-Koria
Danalin- Angel of the Water-lade
Dagda- Angel of Balance
Kilmorph- Angel of the Earth-Honor
Tali- Angel of the Air-Thomas.berubeg
Cernunnos- Angel of Growth-civ king

Camulos- Angel of War-mknn
Aeron- Angel of Rage-Iceciro
Ceridwen- Angel of Magic-MasterofDisasta
Mammon- Angel of Greed-Seon
Esus- Angel of Deception-Brugarin
Agares- Angel of Despair-Kenken244
Bhall- Angel of Fire-Taalen

I'd rather not have the gods be limited in what they do. It might be more fun if you allowed the gods to do things that would be somewhat out of character, but nothing extreme like junil spreading hell terrain.

I agree. The fun of divine intervention was that the gods were allowed to be out of character and poke fun at themselves, with creative uses of their precept. Rather than straight abilities only, Perhaps just the precept would work better.

For example. Say I'm Oghma. Instead of just giving techs, I have the precept of knowledge. So, why not place a Mind Mana Node underneath your city if I favor you? Perhaps I could persuade Bhall to slap a desert tile in your BFC to reduce the commerce on it, and thereby your research rate. Maybe I could close down your Academy, or give you a free GSage.

Precepts give the players all the tools under that domain. Restricting Agares to just unhappiness, or Tali to JUST Ship speed, is kind of limiting. But I would LOVE to sign up for this, probably as Dagda or Oghma, or even as the player. What faction should we have for the player anyway. Amurite?

Don't forget to add Kilmorph to the list, and replace Nemed with Sucellus (and add Mulcarn if you will, but technically he's dead so you could leave him out ;) )

I'd say use the gods in a broad sense. It allows for a lot more fun if you're going to throw the Compact out of the window anyway. ;)

Take for instance Tali; apart from being associated with Air, he is also associated with carelessness and irresponsibility. Thus, whoever plays Tali can do a lot more than just controlling the wind; he would also do completely random (but not destructive) things.

I knew I was missing someone!

I agree, you should definitely give each person free reign to play their god as long as they explain their actions through their god's precept. I would definitely want to participate in a game like that - combining all the fun of divine intervention with the already rich lore of ffh.

As for the player's team, what about the Grigori. It seems silly at first, but the fact that they don't follow one god above others or even respect the gods at all could make for a interesting experience. We would have to explain why they are willing to work with the gods though, even if they don't worship them.

I don't think many other factions would work since most teams seem fairly baised towards one god or another. I would agree that the Amurites might work and would add the Grigori, possibly the Hippus or Kuriorates (although they might be more loyal to whatever god Eubrates is an agent of.) Maybe Decius, he seems like an adaptable fellow who would use whichever god suited his purposes.

Maybe it would be best to use a generic developing faction that would start with a traitless leader and no UUs or UBs. This would not only allow for an explanation of why this leader is willing to play the "god market" for their own benefit, but would also allow the gods to provide the main effect in shaping the civ's playstyle as opposed to that civ's usual strategy. UUs and UBs of other civs could be gifted by the gods and used to develop the player nation.

I agree, you should definitely give each person free reign to play their god as long as they explain their actions through their god's precept. I would definitely want to participate in a game like that - combining all the fun of divine intervention with the already rich lore of ffh.

As for the player's team, what about the Grigori. It seems silly at first, but the fact that they don't follow one god above others or even respect the gods at all could make for a interesting experience. We would have to explain why they are willing to work with the gods though, even if they don't worship them.

I don't think many other factions would work since most teams seem fairly baised towards one god or another. I would agree that the Amurites might work and would add the Grigori, possibly the Hippus or Kuriorates (although they might be more loyal to whatever god Eubrates is an agent of.) Maybe Decius, he seems like an adaptable fellow who would use whichever god suited his purposes.

Maybe it would be best to use a generic developing faction that would start with a traitless leader and no UUs or UBs. This would not only allow for an explanation of why this leader is willing to play the "god market" for their own benefit, but would also allow the gods to provide the main effect in shaping the civ's playstyle as opposed to that civ's usual strategy. UUs and UBs of other civs could be gifted by the gods and used to develop the player nation.


I know that if you start a custom game with "Random Good/Neutral/Evil" leader you end up having no traits, except for the alignment. But I dont think that there is a generic civ. Maybe, but I'm not too sure.

I do agree that it would be better that way. But adding in traits as the game goes on could get... complicated should we end up breaking the saves. The Grigori aspect could be pooled as "Working for the One", I suppose.

I know that if you start a custom game with "Random Good/Neutral/Evil" leader you end up having no traits, except for the alignment. But I dont think that there is a generic civ. Maybe, but I'm not too sure.

I do agree that it would be better that way. But adding in traits as the game goes on could get... complicated should we end up breaking the saves. The Grigori aspect could be pooled as "Working for the One", I suppose.

Yeah I see your point. While my idea wouldn't be too difficult to mod, it would be difficult to coordinate everyone using the same mod files. Plus, that would make it more of a chore to participate and these kind of games thrive on community participation. Anything that makes it difficult for new participants join should probably be discouraged. In short, I now completely disagree with my earlier idea. :crazyeye:

I guess what is left is for someone to come up with a compelling story for why a current faction would work with so many different gods without being prejudiced against any one of them (no fun to play a god who is ignored just because of lore.)

If thats the case, we need a civ that isnt vehemently for one religion (IE: Bannor) but not completely opposed (IE: Illians). Grigori could work because of the multitude of people and the fact that they dont worship, but rather acknowledge their presence.

Heres a list:

Amurites, Grigori, Balseraph, Doviello, and Hippus.

They dont have any particular religious lore synergy, and they are all able to follow religions save the Grigori. We could make a case for any of them.

I do think Grigori seem perfect for this, they are certainly not prejudiced for one religion or anything but are pragmatic enough that if a god directly or clearly but indirectly contacted them they would probably be willing to listen. Hippus would also be a nice fit, their mercenary theme fits well with fighting for whatever god happens to be giving them the nicest deal at the time, and Balseraphs don't exactly have a conflict beyond the fact that Perpentach is completely insane and Keelyn is pretty much deranged. Any other civ, though, I can see having some problems.

BTW, who is the orcs' favored god?

Bhall, I believe. After all, they do have that "It is a fragment of Bhalls heaven, keep it to remind us of his power" Option if you get the Meteor event.

BTW, who is the orcs' favored god?

The orcs are the descendents of humans who were loyal to Bhaal. Her fall corrupted them into the species they are now.

I definitely agree with your point about the Hippus, their nature as mercenaries leaves them predisposed to see working with a god as a mutually beneficial contract that when completed, can be discarded in favor of a better one.

I'm starting to really think the Amurites could also work well. Their search for magical knowlege makes the gods attractive allies, since each god is the complete master of a precept. I think their lust to gain new magical abilities would make them the most willing to ally themselves with the gods.

However, I'm not sure about the Balseraphs. I think the insanity theme of their tow established leaders would make it extremely difficult for meaningful alliances and diplomacy to occur between them and the gods. A lot of this game will be based on player - god interaction, so it will be important that the player interacts with the gods on a reasonable level.

So, Amurites, Hippus, or Grigori seem to be the final list for how this would work. Any particular favorites?

I'm in favor of the Hippus, under Tasunke. Seems to be a good fit for this particular game. A really good mercenary type leader for a game that has the potential to shift wildly.

Tasunke would be good, Grigori seem like they would be rather unwilling to listen to the Gods.

If you do base it off of the Divine Intervension in the Stories section, it would probably be good to allow the gods to interfere more often (every 25 turns or so), especially given the amount we would have.

If you pick the Hippus under Tasunke expect Sirona to be quietly sobbing in a corner while Camulos has a field day. :p

I'm definitely joining this one as well. Not yet sure what angel I'm picking, though.

If you pick the Hippus under Tasunke expect Sirona to be quietly sobbing in a corner while Camulos has a field day. :p


:lol: True, true...

of course it would be funny if the Sirona player gives the best quests and the Hippus end up peaceful rancher... that's what I like about Divine Intervention games, you never know what to expect!

All right heres my personal preference of leaders.

1st Choice: Amurites

The Amurites have a society based on seeking magical knowlege and each god can offer them the power of his or her respective precept. Right there we have the Amurites' motivations for dealing with the gods. Since they seek to master all precepts, the Amurites have equal reason to barter with the good gods as to sign a pact with the evil gods. Furthermore, this desire to learn every precept will encourage them to interact with many gods at once, allowing a lage amount of players to actively participate as gods. With a manipulative leader like Valledia, this could lead to some very interesting diplomacy; each god must offer enough power to convince the Amurites to serve him/her, without giving them so much power that they feel they can control that god's sphere on their own. Also, I have to admit I'm pretty partial to this because the exchange of service for magical prowess reminds me of the FFH backstory of Kylorin and Cerdiwen that I enjoyed so much. I think this most readily lends itself to a Fall From Heaven, dark fantasy type of game.

2nd Choice: Hippus

I think there is a lot of potential for interesting interactions here as well, although I see it more as the Hippus' typical mercenary-style contracts. Hippus serve, a god rewards. Seems fairly basic at first but could eventually get very interesting. I'm drawn to this one less than the option of an Amurite player because I feel it lacks some of the morality-play, trade-your-soul-for-unlimited-arcane-power appeal of the Amurites. Perhaps too cliche, but I like that type of story.

3rd Choice: Grigori

While I initially thought this might be the best choice, I think it is too hard to justify the Grigori's willingness to work with the gods. For the game to go well the player has to work with the gods not just grudgingly, but actively, and I don't think the Grigori would seek out the gods' help as the other two nations would.

All right heres my personal preference of leaders.

1st Choice: Amurites

The Amurites have a society based on seeking magical knowlege and each god can offer them the power of his or her respective precept. Right there we have the Amurites' motivations for dealing with the gods. Since they seek to master all precepts, the Amurites have equal reason to barter with the good gods as to sign a pact with the evil gods. Furthermore, this desire to learn every precept will encourage them to interact with many gods at once, allowing a lage amount of players to actively participate as gods. With a manipulative leader like Valledia, this could lead to some very interesting diplomacy; each god must offer enough power to convince the Amurites to serve him/her, without giving them so much power that they feel they can control that god's sphere on their own. Also, I have to admit I'm pretty partial to this because the exchange of service for magical prowess reminds me of the FFH backstory of Kylorin and Cerdiwen that I enjoyed so much. I think this most readily lends itself to a Fall From Heaven, dark fantasy type of game.

2nd Choice: Hippus

I think there is a lot of potential for interesting interactions here as well, although I see it more as the Hippus' typical mercenary-style contracts. Hippus serve, a god rewards. Seems fairly basic at first but could eventually get very interesting. I'm drawn to this one less than the option of an Amurite player because I feel it lacks some of the morality-play, trade-your-soul-for-unlimited-arcane-power appeal of the Amurites. Perhaps too cliche, but I like that type of story.

3rd Choice: Grigori

While I initially thought this might be the best choice, I think it is too hard to justify the Grigori's willingness to work with the gods. For the game to go well the player has to work with the gods not just grudgingly, but actively, and I don't think the Grigori would seek out the gods' help as the other two nations would.

I would agree with these choices. Also, when this gets off the ground, I call Agares.

I'm fine with any of the choices. I would like to reserve either Dagda or Oghma, if that would be alright.

All three do sound good, thoguh I do have a slight preference for the Amurites above the others.

As for my pick, I'd prefer Junil. Bring on the holy wars!

I wanna be Esus!

Any of those 3 civ choices are fine with me as well (especially since I posted them :p)

By the way, do we know who the player is yet? I couldn't figure out whether the OP had wanted that position or not.

Since it seems to be sign up time I'd like to take a spot as Cerdiwen, even if dimensional isn't a true sphere in the game.

When this thing gets off the ground I'd like to join up - it sounds like a lot of fun for all parties involved.

I'll take Agares, if I may.

What exactly is a divine intervention?

A divine intervention is a game where one player has a group of watchers. These watchers come in every 25-50 turns and alter someting somehow, giving the player quests to help him out with the obscene difficulty these things can be at. The gods themselevs roleplay interactions with one another and are often at odds with one another in certain cases.

When this thing gets off the ground I'd like to join up - it sounds like a lot of fun for all parties involved.

I'll take Agares, if I may.

You will have to choose another god, Agares is already taken. I would suggest Aeron as those two are very similar

I'll be interested in playing this, I'll take any god left available
Good and neutral god preferred

Works for me. I figured he would be. :)

A divine intervention is a game where one player has a group of watchers. These watchers come in every 25-50 turns and alter someting somehow, giving the player quests to help him out with the obscene difficulty these things can be at. The gods themselevs roleplay interactions with one another and are often at odds with one another in certain cases.

Cool. That's kinda like an RPG with multiple dungeon masters :D

So, how does it actually work? Does it involve forum posting once a few turns to keep everyone up to date?

Ok, never mind, I'll just take Mammon

I'd like to be Arawn if he's free.

Cool. That's kinda like an RPG with multiple dungeon masters :D

So, how does it actually work? Does it involve forum posting once a few turns to keep everyone up to date?

The "Player" posts the save, along with an update (Normally accompanied by screenshots) of his progress. From there, ONE "God" takes it and alters it. He posts a quest/riddle of what he changed, and tells the other gods what he did. 30 more turns later, Next god in line takes it. Its usualy first come first serve, but you cant take two god turns in a row.

I'd like to be Arawn if he's free.

Meaning, you want to be considered a god but not actually do anything to effect the game? Arawn stubbornly refuses to get involved in Erebus at all, or to confront to attempts to overthrow him because of his inaction.

The "Player" posts the save, along with an update (Normally accompanied by screenshots) of his progress. From there, ONE "God" takes it and alters it. He posts a quest/riddle of what he changed, and tells the other gods what he did. 30 more turns later, Next god in line takes it. Its usualy first come first serve, but you cant take two god turns in a row.

Thanks for the info Korias, you have been very helpful. :)

Meaning, you want to be considered a god but not actually do anything to effect the game? Arawn stubbornly refuses to get involved in Erebus at all, or to confront to attempts to overthrow him because of his inaction.

Pretty much. Think of the effort I save by not having to actually do anything. :)

I think I will stick with Oghma. I like his style. No problem Honor. After all, these things are co-operative experiences.

I want Cernunnos

I looked through the civs that would be in this game and noticed that there aren't any good or evil civs whatsoever, is this intended? I believe that we need some more civs, 3 is just too litte (assuming that this map will be huge). Also the gods roster seems to be full of evil gods and nearly no good god, I think AC will be rising fast if this continues...

I'de Like Tali, please

I looked through the civs that would be in this game and noticed that there aren't any good or evil civs whatsoever, is this intended? I believe that we need some more civs, 3 is just too litte (assuming that this map will be huge). Also the gods roster seems to be full of evil gods and nearly no good god, I think AC will be rising fast if this continues...

Those are the choices for the player to use. I would guess the AI's would be random.

Those are the choices for the player to use. I would guess the AI's would be random.

Oh well that is better than I thought, but you cannot give evil civs quests and they do not thank you for helping them. Oh well, I hope someone else joins in quickly..:(

Of course for good and neutral gods team I mean. This team seem a bit unfair for Junil and Oghma

Oh well that is better than I thought, but you cannot give evil civs quests and they do not thank you for helping them. Oh well, I hope someone else joins in quickly..:(

Well, IIRC in past divine intervention games the AI civs aren't treating like the player with quests and such. A god might help an AI civ or favor them (seems very applicable with FFH's gods), but the person controlling the god just has to say what happens in this interaction, they don't need to engage in actual diplomacy like they do with the human player.

In fact, I think it is perfectly legal for a god to keep his interactions with AI's a secret from the human player.

Here is an example of a fairly recent divine intervention game for anyone who wants an example of what we're taking about. You can actually find a lot of them by just searching "divine intervention" on the forums.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=304841

It also has ForestAuro's 11 "commandements" for explaining how gods should act in a divine intervention game. I think these rules should be followed for this FFH divine intervention game as well. If anything, more should be added rather than taking any of them away. For example, I think we should add something to rule XI about which world units should be out of bounds for god tampering. I think all world improvements should be fair game though.

Actually I think there was a rule once to keep the 'heroes' of a normal Civ4 game intact (namely that named units should not be taken away without a good reason), so I think a hero rule for a FFH game is a good idea. No tampering with world units.

And yes, the current roster of angels is imbalanced. That's not a problem though - are the evil angels all working towards one and the same goal? I remember a lore post where it was said that for instance only Agares and Ceridwen want to have Creation destroyed, and Agares doesn't even want to destroy it himself - he wants the One to destroy it. The evil angels do not have the same goals, they might favour different civilizations, they might even be infighting to further their goals or just for the sake of it (though Camulos is still absent ;) ).

I can expect that as long as there is good around that infighting will not be big, though. In that case you can expect whatever good civilization I favour to have a monster capital, outtech all the evil civs, and bring in Basium as soon as I can get away with giving out Fanaticism for free. The game will be more interesting if there are both strong good and strong evil civilizations.

On that case, I think it might be a good idea to set a few random AI slots to 'Random Good' and 'Random Evil' to create an interesting game.

What about the neutral zone? The elemental areas seem to be completely overlooked. Nobody wants to help the pirates?

By the way, I am fairly certain the Iceciro is taking over as Aeron

Can I be Danalin? sleeping is my thing

Can I be Danalin? sleeping is my thing

And also having nightmares and causing havoc wherever Hemah (darn I forgot how to spell) goes.:) P.S. Danalin being influenced by my demons don't matter here correct? I hope so, if not, it would be confuzzling. I bid you luck in spreading the all powerful words of teh Overlords.:D

Hey, I'm a neutral and elemental god...

Yeah, I'm going to be running as Aeron.

It should be interesting - I'm not accustomed to playing someone who isn't a "just as planned" sort. That just makes it a fun challenge though.

btw, are we waiting for all 21 gods to fill up, or are we waiting for a player?

I'm pretty sure we are all just waiting for a player. It is fine for people to join in as gods part way through, so we can still start and leave slots open for people to join. I wasn't really sure if the OP was posting this thread just as an idea, or because he was planning to be the player since a lot of times the player posts their game and everyone else joins in.

Once we do start, should we make the actual game thread over in the stories and tales secction?

That owuld make it certainly more popular, even draw more people to the mod.

That owuld make it certainly more popular, even draw more people to the mod.

what would?:confused:

Once we do start, should we make the actual game thread over in the stories and tales secction?

Do it!

I was sorta tempted to put my hand up and say I'd be the player, but this is FFH and not FF, and the differences are probabaly just enough to make me a really poor player (especially of the civs we've mentioned as the player's Civs, none of which are my regulars.)
No way I'm going to look bad on the internet! :lol:

It's probably best just to get it off the ground now and get it started. More will drop in later, all we need is someone crazy enough to be the player.

And no, I'm not going to be the player...
... unless you let me play Cassiel in character. :p

I don't know, god join rate seems to have stagnated and I am sure that Dumanios is the player. Of course, if he isn't, than the ideal/dream crazy person could be Kael or Killerclowns;)

Might be interesting. I'll take Nantosuelta

If need be, I can be the player. I'm familiar with the Grigori, Amurite, and Hippus civs, but I cant play on levels that the majority of the community does.

I think the problem isn't so much that the player has to be exceptionally skilled, but just very dedicated. While obviously the player needs to be able to competently play their civ, I think most of the community can handle that. The important part is that the player needs to be willing to play regularly to keep the game moving along. So if anyone is interested in doing that, we can get this started. :goodjob:

Whoever starts the actual game thread should probably post a link to it here.

Hooray! finally a player!

So, which Civ did we decide upon? I'll load a starting save within 24 Hours once I know what the Civ is.

you may choose between the Amurites, the Hippus, and the Grigori

I could join as Bhall, though I believe I'll have to spend a little time reading the lore to be able to do it right... :P

Bhall spends most of the Age of Rebirth unconscious and recuperating, though...

though, i guess it wouldn't matter...

Guys do you know what this means? full set of evil gods! :satan:

Is there any place except for the civilopedia where i could get some more info on the gods of Erebus?

I wanna be Kilmorph!

Is there any place except for the civilopedia where i could get some more info on the gods of Erebus?

I just downloaded this pdf by loocas:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197670&d=1229652259

It looks helpful ;)

Bhall spends most of the Age of Rebirth unconscious and recuperating, though...

though, i guess it wouldn't matter...

I definitely didn't have anything very big planned, should go nicely as recuperation. But obviously, if several people think that lorewise Bhall should sleep this one over, I have no objections - after all, there are still a few to pick from.

Oh, no... I"m not at all saying you shouldn't play as Bhall! It should be interesting.

Bhall was sleeping during the age of ice. She is awakwning as the age of ice ends.

Guys do you know what this means? full set of evil gods! :satan:

Boy this is going to be difficult for me. :trouble:

you may choose between the Amurites, the Hippus, and the Grigori

I think I'll go for the Hippus or Amurites, as I'm more familiar with their tactics. Most likely the Amurites under Dain.

I (Esus) could help you, even if i'm labeled as evil. I still don't quite understand what do I hope to achieve. I want to decieve people just for the sake of it? Or for some goal or another? Am I doing it for fun, for protection, for power, for what?

It's gonna be difficult to be deceptive and trickery. I will have to convene with the other gods to insert my tidbits of storyline in their posts at least from time to time.

I (Esus) could help you, even if i'm labeled as evil. I still don't quite understand what do I hope to achieve. I want to decieve people just for the sake of it? Or for some goal or another? Am I doing it for fun, for protection, for power, for what?

It's gonna be difficult to be deceptive and trickery. I will have to convene with the other gods to insert my tidbits of storyline in their posts at least from time to time.

While Esus's loyalty to anyone can be called in question (he is the angel of Deception after all) I very much doubt that Esus would try to strengthen the law (Junil, that is) that he is breaking behind their backs, and risk his assassins and thieves getting caught. The only angel Esus seeks to oppose more is his archenemy Lugus.

Add to that that Junil won't trust him either.

Actually I think Amurite under Valledilla would suit better, with her doing anything to make Amurite better nation and all.

So the consensus is Amurites under Valledia the Even.

Are the following map traits Alright with you all?

What maptype would you all prefer? My standard loadup is Custom Continents, 5 continents, Low Sea Level, Huge map. Should we do Erebus, or some other type of mapscript?

Hmm...

Your call, honestly... we're only gods.

Edit:

Though, could we have all the unique features, and end of winter enabled?

Alright. End of Winter and All Unique Features enabled. Mapscript is Custom Continents. Leader is Valledia of the Amurites.

This game will be done in .40x, if that is OK with everyone.

Edit: I also use Blessings of Amathon, Living World, and Last days. Are you all OK with this?

Those are the settings I always use too, but i didn't mention them, so as to not impose. So, go for it.

Sounds good to me.

The Thread can be found here. Rules, and list of gods, is there as well. The save is posted for you all to tinker with. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7829650#post7829650)

Might be interesting. I'll take Nantosuelta
This guy had Nantosuelta before me, so I'll be moved to Lugus.

Hehehe... Welcome.