Hello anyone who is interested...

Download:

LSB Fallout Mod 0.234567 (http://www.4shared.com/file/i6yQ7cIM/Fury_Road_LS_Fallout_3.html)

290711 Fallout Mk3 (almost completed scenario map for america, some resources still to add as well as various scenario and balancing elements that I have in mind but feel free to download and take a look a number of vaults are in so it is technically playable just not finished)

You will need to add the 'Fallout Mk1' file to your world builder saves file and run the game as a scenario, this is due to a conflict between the fury road map script and my custom code for BOS/EN/SM, if you try to start a normal new game it will CTD. this should be fixed in the future with new terrain and a modified map script but that is all far in the future for me, but Mk1 is fine for playing and testing new stuff I think.



I've decided to re-work my thread to share my ideas for a fallout project.

Heres my thoughts so far.

Reworked Civs:

Wasteland Tribes: Low tech, high population, large spread, lots of weak units good against animals. Low upkeep from distance and number of cities (each is a self contained village loosely banded together with the other tribes).

Herbologists: based off of a blending of various religions from Fallout, most notably the huboligists from Fallout 2, also with an EcoMentalist spin, Ability to train animal based units also, some sort of restoration ability allowing the restoring of healthy forests, better tiles etc.

The Masters Supermutant Army: Super mutants, strong units, Slow growth, must harvest human populations to generate new supermutants, can only found cities on certain resources. Perhaps only able to build a basic unit such as a 'slave/prisoner' that has to be upgraded to the better SuperMutant representing the need for a 'slave trade' infrastructure to grow the ranks of the army.

Brotherhood of Steel: Strong Power Armour based units, Slow growth, can only found on certain resources, Fast Tech.

Enclave: Strong Power Armour based units, slow growth, fast tech, big unhappiness modifiers.

Raiders and Slavers: quick unit construction, unhappiness, low unit support costs, low financial abilities.

New California Republic: happiest Civ, good all rounders, no major wakness/strength, high refugee intake.

New Reno: Criminal fraternity, various 'black market' industries, ability to inflict negative affects on other civs through bad corporations, eg. 'Jet', etc.

Civilised Ghouls: Good tech, immune to radiation, positive effects from radiation, good health buildings, can build simple radiation based facilities, eg. 'Glowing One' hosipital, nuclear reactor, etc. Ghouls love the radiation. Possibly benefits from radiation tiles. Possibly through having the ability to build improvements on fallout tiles, perhaps by having a UU worker, this could add the interesting twist of the Ghoul Civ using Nukes to 'Terraform' the planet into a more comfortable environment for them hehe!

more ideas to come in the future

Ok Folks! with the successful completion of my first ever piece of Python coding, (the joyous success after months and months of feeling like a complete failure) I am tempted to attempt to lay out a plan of action for the Development of My Fallout Mod so here goes:

v0.1: Cosmetics: Leaders and Factions converted to Fallout. DONE wahoo (Some graphics need polishing from a more skilled hand than mine)
v0.2: Fury Road Units converted to Fallout Specific Units, Unique Graphics, Buttons, Stats, Names etc. For each Faction.
v0.3: Some Resource/Terrain features added, Primarily Vaults required first and foremost for Enclave/BOS/Mutants to be able to build Cities on. Iguanas, supermarkets, uranium, possibly various critters, advanced munitions?, maybe more. (Vaults are are now in wahoo!)
v0.4: New Fallout Units added (potentially) think Vertibird Assualt Team, Derigible Pioneer Teams, Laser/Plasma Weapon Units, Snipers Etc.
v0.5: New Buildings and maybe Faction Specific City Graphics
v0.6: Look at Modifying Qualities of Factions e.g. Leader Traits, Unique Buildings etc.
v0.7: Adding New Techs
v0.8:
v0.9:
v1.0: Basically playable game based off the Fury Road Game Structure
v1.1: Let the expansion begin! New Techs/Units/Game Concepts etc.

Also in regards to the tech tree I thought one idea would be to not make everything about understanding technology but make it research & scavenging ideas so like 'Old Book Depository' 'High yield Batteries', 'high tech armoury etc.' so they spend some time finding something, then figuring out how it works, then they can use it but they haven't actually created the tech from nothing they just found it and used it. so that could explain how they are able to field and use advanced tech while still being overall quite backwards. They just tack it on like the Radar and stuff.

Hmmmm... seems interesting, I'll be waiting for the mod mod...

Hello anyone who is interested I am trying to compile a list for unique units for my fallout civs in fury road below is a list of each basic unit and then a space for a replacement unit for each civ anyone who has any cool ideas for the civs units feel free to tell me, I've hit a bit of a creative slump and need some ideas to get things going again.


STANDARD--------Survivor 6 +25% City Defence
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Chopper 6 No Defensive Bonus
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Crossbow 8 1 First Strike, +50% Melee, +50% Animal
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Catapult 8 Bombard -16%/turn, No Defensive Bonus
ATribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Ute 8
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Militia 12
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Lancer 12 -25% Wheeled, -25% Ute, Flank on Catapult
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Flamethrower 10 1 First Strike, +50% Melee, +50% Ranged
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Anti-Tank Inf. 14 Intercpt 20%, +100% Armor, +50% Wheeeled, (+25% Armor (ambush promo)
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Jeep 14 No Defensive Bonus
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Machine Gun 18 Defend, 1 First Strike, Immune to Collateral
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------SAM Inf. 18 Intercept 40%, +75% Helicopter
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Humvee 20 No Defensive Bonus
Tribals
Herbologists
Reno
Raiders
BOS
NCR
Enclave
Super Mutant
Ghoul
STANDARD--------Gunship 24 +100% Armor, Cannot Capture, No Defensive Bonus, Ignore Terrain, 25% Withdraw
STANDARD--------Tank 28 No Defensive Bonus

sorry lost a bit of the formatting but hopefully you can still muddle through it

I'm patiently waiting. :)

got any ideas? or just a whole lot of patience? hehe

I had some Usher ideas. They're in a nearby thread. :) I would help further, but I'm caught up in some stuff. Have to finish college at this point.

Hi anyone who might be interested, I had a few ideas about how to make fallout civs in the game such as enclave, BOS, NCR, Supermutants, etc. I had a couple of ideas for making the 'stronger factions' like Enclave, BOS and Supermutant have a much slower expansion but have access to better units and buildings.

My main idea was to give the 3 teams a UU Settler that replaces the normal settler and this new settler can only build on certain terrain features. (my thoughts were Vaults, Military bunkers and Science facilities) so that these 3 civs will grow much slower as they have to hunt out these sites where as the other civs, NCR, Tribal, Raiders etc. would be able to build anywhere.

With each of the special terrain features i thought it could generate a set of specific buildings that can only be built there. So for example you build a base on a vault and it founds the city with a vault building. the vault would be a prereq for other buildings like, water purifier, hydroponics, teaching machines etc. the same with the other two military developments at a military bunker and things like FEV vats (a Supermutant UB) at the Science facility.

Another idea was that the 3 'Strong' civs would also have a shortage of people to recruit (Supermutants can't reproduce and E. and BOS are too busy being professionals) so their strongest units would have a cap. as to how many they could build and i also thought that they would need to conquer the 'normal' towns of other civs in order to gain new recruits. I thought this could be achieved by having all normal settlements found with something like a 'village' building and this would act as a prereq for things like a recruiting office or FEV selection centre for if/when they are conquered by a 'Strong' faction these could then be used to build a recruit unit that can be taking to a proper facility and be upgraded to a number of unit types for the strong factions. Depending on tech and constructed buildings. (not sure about the theory of this part though whether you can tie unit upgrades into needing a specific building, I know once upon a time it was linked to barracks but that was back in Civ 2 i think, so don't know about the possibility now)

Some other ideas:
Tribals: Quick and easy to make warriors, a few high end cap. units like tribal machinegunner etc. with limited scrounged or captured tech and weapons used only by the greatest and most revered of them (like the Vault Dwellers Pip Boy). Also some special civ traits. one that gives a 25% or 50% increase to their safety rate so they can quickly gain access to tiles representing the fact that unlike the vault dwellers the tribals don't fear the wasteland because it is all they've ever known and have fully adapted their lifestyle to it, also perhaps something like a trait that removes or reduces the penalty costs for distance to capital or number of cities representing that each is a self contained village and they only really unite in times of need, such as wars. Also if you don't like the idea of horses in fallout I suggest that the fast infantry is a good idea and this is how i would do it. A promotion, something like 'pathfinder' that gives +1 movement, and perhaps no penalty for terrain. The way i would explain this is:

Although they would in essence have the same speed as a vehicle they wouldn't be moving as fast, only more directly, if you reach a cliff a vehicle has to drive around, a person can climb it etc. also vehicles would still have the benefit of the Old World Highways to give them that extra boost of speed, but it would mean that the tribals aren't completely left behind in terms mobile units. Also a harsh existence breeds a very lean and fit people with great stamina. When The English faught the Zulus in Africa they were amazed at how fast and fit they were, they could run for hours day after day and be ready to fight at the end of it. An incredible stamina.

Certain elite tribal units could even have this as a starting promotion.

The end result would be that the Tribals could spread out to cover vast areas quickly but would need to produce lots of warriors to attack or even defend against the more powerful civs.

Also Fallout has never fully explored America only chunks of it. Fallout was the south west, Fallout 2 was the north west, and Fallout 3 was the DC area, so it is conceivable that there could be a resurgence of the Great Plains Tribes with stocks of horses etc.

I'm currently working on changing the Fury Road civs into fallout inspired civs trying to use as much of the existing leaderhead animated art as possible I will eventually put out a graphics requested for some of these to be slightly modified or new ones made for things like Ghouls and Supermutants.

Here's my idea so far:

Brotherhood of Steel: (Obviously!!) replaces Guild
Enclave: replaces Australia
New California Republic: replaces Hopeville
The Civilised Ghouls: replaces Usher
The New Reno Families: replaces Centurion
The Wasteland Tribes: replaces Amdahl
The Raiders and Slavers: replaces Stormtroopers
The Master's Army(Super Mutants): replaces New Holy Rome (a whole new take on the Master Race Doctrine!)
The Herbologists: replaces Aquarians (I know this isn't strictly Fallout but its a blending of elements from Fallout, BeastLords + Hubologists + an Eco-movement. I just think it would be cool to have a One with Earth Eco Warrior Cult. Very distinctive possibilities. You could also blend some of the other cults like the atom cult in to it.)

Other possible groups:
Hunter's and Trapper's Guild: replace either Exodites or Kingtown
Communist China/Russian Infiltrators: replace Phoenix
The Calculator's Robotic Horde

I want to try and make the different races as distinct as possible, different goals, methods, and play styles. Some vast and sprawling others very spread out isolated, some with small powerful armies, others seething masses, high tech, low tech, etc. got the starts of a lot of ideas to make all of them capable of success, with bonuses and draw backs.

I didn't know, what you intended in the working thread, but this idea sounds really flavourfull :goodjob:.

yeah I thought it would make quite a nice dynamic between the different civs and also get that seeking tech mission of the BOS.

Which parts of the code are you stuck on? Are you working on modifying XML, or python, or sdk?

python and XML if you go to 'Founding cities only on specific tiles' thread in the modding question section at this link?? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326362

You can see the story so far basically I am trying to create the settler unit that can only found on certain terrain using the python code 'can'tfoundcity' or something similar to that by adding it to the fury road gameutil file. other people have managed to get it to work in a normal bts game, i need to try and do that today to see if it is a problem with my code or some issue specific to fury road.

PROBLEM SOLVED

Reserved for future

Please use pakbuild to extract all the art files from the fpk file in the assets directory. (Search pakbuild in the forums for instructions.)

I have a very odd problem.

I am making UU's for the civs and some of them appear as unique units in the Civilopedia for the given civ but others don't, they appear in the civilopedia they just don't say they are unique to a civ. In the game they work as unique units only appearing for the given civ and with their unique unit abilities.

here's some code from the civilizationinfo.xml:
</Cities>
<Buildings/>
<Units>
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_SETTLER</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>UNIT_EXCAVATOR</UnitType>
</Unit>
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_WARRIOR</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>UNIT_WARRIORMUTANT</UnitType>
</Unit>
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_MARINE</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>UNIT_MARINEMUTANT</UnitType>
</Unit>
</Units>
<FreeUnitClasses/>
<FreeBuildingClasses>
<FreeBuildingClass>

The 'excavator' and 'marine' both appear as UU's in the pedia but the warrior doesn't, I had the same problem with the marine, it used to be 'UNIT_MARINE_MUTANT' but i got rid of the second underscore and then it worked however when i did this for the 'warrior' it didn't appear as a UU, but it does still work as a UU in the game?

Here is the unitinfo entry:

<UnitInfo>
<Class>UNITCLASS_WARRIOR</Class>
<Type>UNIT_WARRIORMUTANT</Type>
<UniqueNames/>
<Special>NONE</Special>
<Capture>NONE</Capture>

They definately match and there are no errors from the game except the fact that it doesn't come up as a UU in the pedia?

I have other civ entries that are the same except they don't have an excavator and the units are specific to their civ. basically every civ has its own warrior and marine UU. The Warrior doesn't appear for any of them.

yeah the punk axeman works. it's just really bizarre

That is curious. I cannot think of any reason for it. In the basic mod, the barbarian civ has a UU over warrior, which is the Punk Axeman. Does your civilopedia show that OK? There is also no reason why subtracting an underscore should make it suddenly work. There is no significance to the exact spelling of the name. Assuming that you matched the exact spelling between the civilizationinfos file and the unitinfos file, any spelling should work.

Apart from suggesting to check everything again, I cannot provide any solid clue about what is wrong.

i figuered out the problem with the warrior UU, I no longer had a standard survivor in the game (I had renamed it as one of the uniques) so the civilopedia didn't register it fully. once I put the normal survivor back in it started to say that they were unique units and that it replaced the survivor. Bit of a pain cause I don't particularly want the original in the game as no one uses it but nevermind.

Now if only I could have the same luck with my Excavator python script I'd be dancing the night away!

If your python changes are relatively local and have a comment to show where they are, I can certainly read through it and see what I can see. Are you getting python error popups, or is the code just not doing what you want?

No I get no error messages, the python code just doesn't seem to work or even particularly register in the game? at one point I tried to change it so the excavator couldn't found anywhere just to see if it works but that didn't do anything either.

def cannotFoundCity(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pPlot = CyMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY)
for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
if pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_SETTLER'): return False
elif pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_EXCAVATOR'):
if pPlot.getFeatureType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_RUIN'): return False
return True

that is the gameutil code. would you like me to send you the files? so I haven't done uploading files onto here yet so I don't know how it is done?

the 'excavator' is my unique settler and the ruins are referring to your ruined city features I know that normally you can't settle there but i disabled it for now its really just a place holder to get the code to work then I will replace it with a new piece of terrain. I also tried it with 'Forest' feature instead to see if it was a problem with the ruin, but it didn't work either, the excavator just founds anywhere?

Like I said if you need files I'll send it to you some how just let me know what to do and I'll get straight on it.

thanks a lot this is one of the two bits of python code that i need to really make my mod work the way I would like it to. Everything else I can think of so far is xml and i can do that without too much difficulty.

There are some python callbacks which are very expensive in runtime because the AI calls them very often. So there is one additional step you must take to have your callback run. Please see file assets/xml/pythoncallbackdefines.xml:


<Define>
<DefineName>USE_CANNOT_FOUND_CITY_CALLBACK</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>0</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>


The callback you are using, cannotFoundCity, is not activated by default. Please change the "0" to "1" in the above file, and then your callback will be executed.

However, I am not sure the callback does quite what you think. I cannot find any good documentation on this. But I believe that this function is called by the AI when checking *potential* city sites. That is, before it even builds the settler unit, it calls this on every square to see if it might be a good city site. In this case your excavator unit will obviously not be there. As a result, your function will always return true and the AI will never even try to found a city.

Is the excavator a *replacement* for the settler? Or do some civs get both a regular settler and this settler? If it is a replacement, then probably what you want is to check whether the player's civ is one which has only excavators, and return false if the plot is a ruin else true. If a civ has both types I am not sure how this could work.

Sorry yeah I have activated the callbackdefine.xml switched it to '1'

yeah plan is that a civ will either have a settler or an excavator not both.

would you be able to tell me the code for what you just said to do, I don't really have much understanding of python I am sort of able to get an idea from it now but I don't really know how to write it?

someone supplied me the code when i asked if it was possible, i don't fully understand what it is really doing.

def cannotFoundCity(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pPlot = gc.getMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY)
for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
if pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_SETTLER'):
return False
elif pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_RUINS_SETTLER'):
if pPlot.getImprovementType() == 2: # 2 = IMPROVEMENT_CITY_RUINS
return False
return True
return False

here is the code someone provided me for achieving a similar goal in a bts game I think in my attempts to get it to work i may have cut some bits off that it needs but when I adapted this code for fury road it still didn't make my excavator be allowed to found only on certain sites

I do not think I will be able to write the python for this. But if you go back to the person who wrote it for you, they may be able to suggest something. Sometimes when working with others, it is easiest to make the new code work on a pure vanilla installation. This way the other person does not have to first install Fury Road, and there are fewer things that can go wrong.

I recommend you create a simple mod, directly on top of vanilla, which has your excavator unique unit which you want to only found cities on a vanilla feature -- say forest. Get that to work with the help of your friend. Then the working code can be easily placed into Fury Road. If you haven't already, you may be able to get help on the sdk/python sub-forum; but it is rare to find a volunteer who will write python for you.

Sorry yeah I have activated the callbackdefine.xml switched it to '1'

yeah plan is that a civ will either have a settler or an excavator not both.

would you be able to tell me the code for what you just said to do, I don't really have much understanding of python I am sort of able to get an idea from it now but I don't really know how to write it?

someone supplied me the code when i asked if it was possible, i don't fully understand what it is really doing.

def cannotFoundCity(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pPlot = gc.getMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY)
for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
if pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_SETTLER'):
return False
elif pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_RUINS_SETTLER'):
if pPlot.getImprovementType() == 2: # 2 = IMPROVEMENT_CITY_RUINS
return False
return True
return False

here is the code someone provided me for achieving a similar goal in a bts game I think in my attempts to get it to work i may have cut some bits off that it needs but when I adapted this code for fury road it still didn't make my excavator be allowed to found only on certain sites

This code should always let you found a city with a settler. It should always let you found a city on a ruins with a RUINS_SETTLER. It should never let you use a RUINS_SETTLER to found a city on any plot except for those with ruins in them.

A side effect of the way this is written is that a RUINS_SETTLER can found a city anywhere if a normal settler is in his same stack. Also the AI is going to get really confused by this because this makes all plots unfoundable until the settler moves into them. The AI won't know this and will just think it can't found in any plot.

I would switch it too:

def cannotFoundCity(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_THAT_USES_RU IN_SETTLERS'):
pPlot = gc.getMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY)
if pPlot.getImprovementType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('IMPROVEMENTS_RUINS'):
return False
return True
return False

That way the plots are always enabled or disabled regardless of whats in the plot.

Right ok thanks for this input Kael I will definately try it. Could you show me how to write it for more than 1 civ?
Basically I have 3 civs that use the special settler, also would this mean that I no longer use the special settler or could I use it to help players see the difference?
would I simply repeat the if pPlayer line entering each civ or is there some other script?

If I'm understanding right it would basically become a civ trait (sort of) rather than a unit trait and any unit capable of settling for that civ would only work on that tile type?]

Thank you so much for your time I'm sure your busy, I really appreciate your assistance.

I managed to get a piece of code working for vanilla bts Caos supplied me with a modular that I ran and it worked yet the code doesn't work for fury road. Could it have something to do with the python entry points or gameinterface files. it just seems like the game isn't seeing my python code (unless it isn't quite right and the it make the gold counter in the top corner go screwy) but it is seeing the other bits of fury python code?

Could you show me how to write it for more than 1 civ?

The straightforward way to do it is by extending the "if" statement. This is a standard programming technique. A different approach which is much more complicated is to enhance the sdk and add a new xml flag to the civilization, for example which gives the legal feature type for a settler. Then you would just check the flag instead of checking the civ name. Modding the sdk requires a lot more programming experience.

I managed to get a piece of code working for vanilla bts Caos supplied me with a modular that I ran and it worked yet the code doesn't work for fury road. Could it have something to do with the python entry points or gameinterface files. it just seems like the game isn't seeing my python code (unless it isn't quite right and the it make the gold counter in the top corner go screwy) but it is seeing the other bits of fury python code?

Integrating python from two different mods is certainly possible, but you need to understand how both of them connect to the event manager and game utilities. There is a good explanation at this link (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=323805). It definitely requires a little programming ability.

I've put the python code to one side for now will revisit it at a later date and see if i can get it to work. I'm working on Xml and putting in graphic stuff for now. (More successes this way hehe)

I hope you're going to clean that OP up eventually.

OP?? what's the OP?

Original Post. The first post in the thread where all the information about the mod should be.

erm... wasn't planning to anytime soon just throwing up my ideas to see if anyone has any interesting feed back or ideas to compliment it while I work on slowly building it up.

EDIT: Started to tidy up the original posts.

(bump) No, this mod is not dead.

(bump) No, this mod is not dead. (Wish people would stop posting in the "is this mpd dead" thread)

oh man i got all excited that some one might have put up some ideas or feed back in here but alas again it was just Mr allen bumping into me again hehe, shucks!

(bump) No, this mod is not dead. (Wish people would stop posting in the "is this mpd dead" thread)

I laughed my ass off at this one:lol:

Hi David, me again, going back to my problem with python I have finally got the python error messages to appear, but I don't really understand what it is referring to and I was wondering if you might be able to understand where I need to look.

There are two messages: (these might not be word perfect)

1. Error(?Loading Python Module?) no python module named Fury_Road

2. error loading most recent call
<string> line 1?
no python module named Fury_Road

I copied all the folders from your Fury Road mod into a new folder and renamed it might that be where the problem stems from, the frustrating thing is that it doesn't refer to a specific file as far as I can tell so I don't no where to go looking to fix the problem?

Thanks for any light you might be able to shed. Your efforts are always much appreciated.

Also on a completely different topic, how were you able to successfully remove units and things from the game because all my attempts have ended in the game simply crashing to desktop with no error messages as to why, I have tried to look through your files to see which ones need to be altered but it is difficult for me to figure out which ones need to be altered as you have added so many new and different elements to your mod.

Again thanks for your time

1. Error(?Loading Python Module?) no python module named Fury_Road

If the message is specifically about Fury_Road (with underscore) then this refers to the mapscript. Please make sure you copied the PublicMaps directory and it contains a file Fury_Road.py.

Also on a completely different topic, how were you able to successfully remove units and things from the game because all my attempts have ended in the game simply crashing to desktop with no error messages as to why.

If you start out with very small changes and get them to work, then you will be able to move onto bigger changes. First, just try changing something about a unit. For example, give one of the units a movement of 4 points instead of 1-2 by changing the iMoves value in the xml. If you can see this, then go on to try adding a new unit, which is a copy of the old one with a new <Description> field. You can just put text there, for example: <Description>My Copy</Description>

If you are able to get this stuff working, then try deleting a unit. Please note that sometimes, other xml files may refer to the unit. For example, the unitclass file usually refers to a unit, and the civilizationinfo file may also. Sometimes it is tricky to find all the references. If you have a good text editor, you can do a "global search" in all the xml files to find references. Be sure to change or delete all of them.

I highly recommend civcheck (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=276286), a program I wrote to catch various types of missing references. Once you set it up and learn how the output works, it will be easy for you to catch these errors before you bring up the game itself.

Saving for the future

Looks great! I like the ideas, also I'll be bothering you with my mental junk...

It is an early stage, I think, but it's taking a good shape.

I saw lack of religions.

I saw lack of religions.

At the moment I want to stick with the Civ influence system that Fury Road has but I will maybe rework it so that the different Civ Influence give different bonuses/penalties. I think this fits in well with the overall fallout theme as all of the groups try to gain control of the wastes.

I have a 'Religious' civ in the game in the form of the Herbologists and i will try to incorporate elements from many of the religious factions of fallout into them, I thought that it was better this way as the religions in fallout seemed to have their own agenda and desire for control. The Hubologists and 'reavers' (or whatever their name was can't fully remember) in particular, the children of the atom maybe not so much but they played a relatively contained role in fallout 3 so I would just put them in with this faction.

I am hoping to invent some corporations in the future, need to think through how each of them will work as I would want different factions to benefit form different corporations in different ways, e.g. 'Jet' as a corporation type would be beneficial to Reno but not other factions. This might be done by giving reno a UB that is linked to the corporation as a prerequiste but not sure if that is possible or not with the basic game engine.

I don't know if the religious guys from some religions would work together as a civ... I think it's better to create a civ for the most representative/numerous religion.

If there's going to be corporations, one of them must be Talon Company (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Talon_Company) (allowind the recruiting of Talon Company Merc (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Talon_Company_Merc)). Another company could be Regulators Court (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Regulators_%28Fallout_3%29) (maybe giving happisnes and allowing a national unit 'Lawbringer Regulator').

I hope those ideas are motivating... ;)

I don't know if the religious guys from some religions would work together as a civ... I think it's better to create a civ for the most representative/numerous religion.


Yeah I'm not making a 100% pure accurate fallout canon game, I thought of blending the various groups together with some of my own ideas just to make a different and fun extra faction, where as if I only picked one I could think of a few ideas for them, but this way I get more variety to work with.

As for Corporations those were the sort of things I was thinking of but at the minute that would be like V. 0.0.6 or 7 probably. if I ever get the brain power to pull it off.

What I would like to do first is give all of the civs UU's, what I would really like to do is have civs with completely different unit 'sets' so, for instance, the survivor, would be different for each civ. For example a BOS one might have better city defence, a Raider one might start with bonus to pillaging, the ghoul would start with Rad. immune, the tribal would perhaps be cheaper and have a bonus against animals, etc.

Right now I am still re skinning civs, with leaderheads and civilopedia entries.

I have made a list of all of the current units in the game, I was going to start by changing those into unique units first, then after all that start thinking of new units and techs etc. to stretch out the technical development.

if you have any ideas for uniques stats and traits for each of the civs/units that would be good to hear.

I see by your corporation desires you are a fan of fallout 3, other corporations might be the NCR rangers, various 'black market' types that populated new reno, perhaps a boxing or cage fight type organisation, 'cafe of dreams', New American Postal Service, Caravan Trade Guild, even somthing like Vault city could act as a Corporation allowing access to the most high tech medical services.

Hehe... I played Fallout Tactics long time ago, I can't really remember it. But yes, I played and loved Fallout 3.

Hum...
if you have any ideas for uniques stats and traits for each of the civs/units that would be good to hear.
I'm in my way, but you be prepared for anything :lol:

First of all, I can remeber a minimod for 'Fall Further 051' that randomly adds a 'nearby terrain promo' to the units trained in all cities. So, if I train a survivor in a city that has hills in the closest tiles, that unit may have a free 'Hills born' (+10% Attacking or defending hills ). Also can generate 'Forest man' and 'Desert walker' (if I'm not wrong)(By the way those are not the real names).

STANDARD--------Survivor 6 +25% City Defence
Tribals > Sentry [free promo, +1 Visibility Range] (They lived all their lives under the wasteland's sky, they can read the sky and feel the nearby lands)
Herbologists > March [free promo, Can Heal while Moving ] (They have a lot of gods to pray at)
Reno > Drill 1 [free promo, +1 First Strike Chance ] (They have a lot to loot)
Raiders > Mobility [free promo, -1 Terrain Movement Cost] (Thay have been lots of years pillaging and enslaving all the wastelands... they are fast thugs)
BOS > Combat 1 [free promo, +10% Strength ] (They received an intensive multifield training)
NCR > City Garrison 1 [free promo, +20% city Defense] (They received intensive defense training)
Enclave > Combat 1 [free promo, +10% Strength ] (They received an intensive multifield training)
Super Mutant > Shock [free promo, +25% vs. Melee Units](Their masters use to hit them a lot, now they don't feel the pain)
Ghoul > Inmune to rad (They took more rad and are still alive)

Is that format ok?
I don't know if you're going to create new promotions for each unit/civ or you'll use existing ones.

those are some cool ideas, one benefit of the XML system is that you can modify the units base stats, I can't remember all the options but you can do things like give then a bonus to city defence, strength, skills in certain terrain types etc. so we wouldn't necessarily have to give them a free promo just change the base stats.

not sure about the raider and reno ones, need to think about those, not sure if a first strike is right for the reno's I can see it in some circumstances, but not necessarily all. It's good to share ideas with you though makes it all more interesting.

Not sure if that mod would work I had tried to make a mod element that responded to terrain elements (see previous posts). i could get the idea to work in a normal Civ map, not not with the fury road maps so i am not sure what needs to be done as a solution.

I'll be posting some of my own ideas for the units eventually just need the energy to get it all laid out in my head.

I see. So we have more freedom to assign unique traits.

Few ideas about those raiders and renos:
Raiders > Morale [free promo, +1 Movement] (Thay have been lots of years pillaging and enslaving all the wastelands... they are fast thugs) // OR // Each unit (neither beasts nor mech) killed by a 'raider survivor' has X% probabilities to generate a slave.
Reno > Each unit killed by a survivor has a probability to add +X to your treasure.

And about this one, I think the berbologist warriot would be overpowered if it's player controlled. I just have to hit once and flee until I'm fully healed, that strike again and flee again... So I'll be leveling much more than other survivors...
Herbologists > March [free promo, Can Heal while Moving ] (They have a lot of gods to pray at)

hi anyone with experience, I have just reawakened my desire to try and make a unique set of civs that can only found on certain tile types, e.g. Post-Apoc City Ruin, in Fury Road V3.19.

Here is my code:
def cannotFoundCity(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_GUILDSTEEL') :
pPlot = gc.getMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY)
if pPlot.getFeatureType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_RUIN'):
return False
return True
return False

Based off the code originally supplied by kael

Here is a screenshot of the python error I got
265054

Any Support you could give is appreciated, thanks in advance

Sorry if you already know this, but one of the unfortunate (IMHO) things about python is that it is very sensitive to white space. It "looks like" you are mixing tabs and spaces at the start of lines. This will cause you a world of pain. It seems that the line "return false" is indented with spaces, while the other ones are tabs.

Please make sure you know exactly how your text editor works with tabs and spaces, and make sure to use only one. If you use tabs, never indent with spaces. Or vice-versa.

BTW, with python errors it is easier to post, if you use the contents of PythonErr.log from the log directory. You will see that the text there, and the text in your screenshot alert, are identical. But it is easier to post and debug, using text instead of a screenshot.

NEVERMIND:

It Works It Works! (Dances round and round!)

It finally works!!

Thankyou everyone who helped me to figure out the various bits and pieces along the way you have all been really helpful!!!

aah cool i'll see if i can find that log folder for next time.

No that post might actually be really helpful i did not know about that I'm using notepad++, I thought it was using tabs for spacing but actually i think you have written your code using spaces, so I will try and 'layout' the code to try and match your style in the file and see what effect that has.

Thanks for the reply

oh well no joy so far... It now freezes on the initializing game loading progress bar after less than a quarter of it being filled, after all the game options have been selected. No error messages. here's the new looking code I've tried to match it to yours david

def unitCannotMoveInto(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iUnitId, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pUnit = self.gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getUnit(iUnitId)
if self.iFall == -1:
self.iFall = self.gc.getInfoTypeForString("FEATURE_FALLOUT")
self.iImmune = self.gc.getInfoTypeForString("PROMOTION_RADIMMUNE")
if CyMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY).getFeatureType() == self.iFall:
if pUnit.isHasPromotion(self.iImmune): return false
return true
return self.parent.unitCannotMoveInto(self,argsList)

def cannotFoundCity(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_GUILDSTEEL') :
pPlot = gc.getMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY)
if pPlot.getImprovementType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('IMPROVEMENT_CITY_RUINS'): return false
return true
return false

# Prevents holy city founding based on techs
def doHolyCity(self): return true

I posted amongst your code to try to illustrate the pattern, for some reason that first def is out of line but it's not in the actual file, curious...

ok I think it has to do with the map generation, because i made a map and then loaded the game using that map and it got to the game screen but with a new error message, unfortunately I can't find the file that you spoke of in the Beyond the Sword > Logs folder the closest I could find was PythonErr2 here is its content

sys.path = ['..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\email', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\encodings', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\build', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale' , '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\py', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\tools', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\co lourchooser', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\ed itor', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\fl oatcanvas', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\ma sked', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\mi xins', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\lib\\og l', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \af', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ca', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \cs', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \da', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \de', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \el', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \es', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \eu', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \fi', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \fr', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \hi', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \hu', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \id', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \it', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ja', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \lv', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \nb', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \nl', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \pl', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \pt_BR', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ru', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \sl', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \sv', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \tr', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \uk', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \zh_CN', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \zh_TW', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \af\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ca\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \cs\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \da\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \de\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \el\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \es\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \eu\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \fi\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \fr\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \hi\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \hu\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \id\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \it\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ja\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \lv\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \nb\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \nl\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \pl\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \pt_BR\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \ru\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \sl\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \sv\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \tr\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \uk\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \zh_CN\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\locale\ \zh_TW\\LC_MESSAGES', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\py\\tes ts', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\tools\\ XRCed', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM\\wx\\tools\\ XRCed\\src-images', '..\\WARLORDS\\ASSETS\\PYTHON\\SYSTEM']

sys.modules = {'zipimport': <module 'zipimport' (built-in)>, 'signal': <module 'signal' (built-in)>, '__builtin__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, 'sys': <module 'sys' (built-in)>, '__main__': <module '__main__' (built-in)>, 'exceptions': <module 'exceptions' (built-in)>, 'CvPythonExtensions': <module 'CvPythonExtensions' (built-in)>}

sys.builtin_module_names = ('CvPythonExtensions', '__builtin__', '__main__', '_bisect', '_codecs', '_codecs_cn', '_codecs_hk', '_codecs_iso2022', '_codecs_jp', '_codecs_kr', '_codecs_tw', '_csv', '_heapq', '_hotshot', '_locale', '_multibytecodec', '_random', '_sre', '_subprocess', '_symtable', '_weakref', '_winreg', 'array', 'audioop', 'binascii', 'cPickle', 'cStringIO', 'cmath', 'collections', 'datetime', 'errno', 'exceptions', 'gc', 'imageop', 'imp', 'itertools', 'marshal', 'math', 'md5', 'mmap', 'msvcrt', 'nt', 'operator', 'parser', 'regex', 'rgbimg', 'sha', 'signal', 'strop', 'struct', 'sys', 'thread', 'time', 'xxsubtype', 'zipimport')
load_module CvEventInterface
load_module CvUtil
load_module traceback
load_module CvEventManager
load_module CvScreensInterface
load_module CvMainInterface
load_module ScreenInput
load_module CvScreenEnums
load_module time
load_module CvDomesticAdvisor
load_module CvTechChooser
load_module CvForeignAdvisor
load_module math
load_module CvExoticForeignAdvisor
load_module IconGrid
load_module DomPyHelpers
load_module PyHelpers
load_module TechTree
load_module re
load_module CvMilitaryAdvisor
load_module CvFinanceAdvisor
load_module CvReligionScreen
load_module CvCorporationScreen
load_module CvCivicsScreen
load_module string
load_module CvVictoryScreen
load_module CvEspionageAdvisor
load_module CvOptionsScreen
load_module CvReplayScreen
load_module CvHallOfFameScreen
load_module CvDanQuayle
load_module CvGameUtils
load_module CvUnVictoryScreen
load_module CvDawnOfMan
load_module CvTechSplashScreen
load_module CvTopCivs
load_module random
load_module CvInfoScreen
load_module CvIntroMovieScreen
load_module CvVictoryMovieScreen
load_module CvWonderMovieScreen
load_module CvEraMovieScreen
load_module CvSpaceShipScreen
load_module CvPediaMain
load_module CvPediaScreen
load_module CvScreen
load_module CvPediaTech
load_module CvPediaUnit
load_module CvPediaBuilding
load_module CvPediaPromotion
load_module CvPediaUnitChart
load_module CvPediaBonus
load_module CvPediaTerrain
load_module CvPediaFeature
load_module CvPediaImprovement
load_module CvPediaCivic
load_module CvPediaCivilization
load_module CvPediaLeader
load_module CvPediaSpecialist
load_module CvPediaHistory
load_module CvPediaProject
load_module CvPediaReligion
load_module CvPediaCorporation
load_module CvWorldBuilderScreen
load_module Popup
load_module CvWorldBuilderDiplomacyScreen
load_module CvDebugTools
load_module CvDebugInfoScreen
load_module CvMapGeneratorUtil
load_module CvGFCScreen
load_module CvPopupInterface
load_module CvScreenUtilsInterface
load_module CvScreenUtils
init-ing world builder screen
load_module CvWBPopups
load_module CvCameraControls
load_module CvAdvisorUtils
load_module CvFuryRoadEvents
PY:OnInit
load_module CvAppInterface


it doesn't appear to have the error message within it, maybe I am just wrong here is a screen shot

265291

Sorry for not being able to get this right still trying to figure out whats what with the error python stuff.

The line references are:
line 112
def cannotFoundCity(argsList):
#CvUtil.pyPrint( "CvGameInterface.cannotHandleAction" )
return gameUtils().cannotFoundCity(argsList)

and
line 35
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
line 35 is from the cannot build code I am writing

should this be self.gc.getplayer(iPlayer)?

hmmm.... ok I did a bit of bodging to see what would happen is i changed all of the gc. references to self.gc references like how it looks in your bits of code david and I now don't get the error messages, but the settler for the STEEL civ can't found anywhere not even the ruin, I will see if anyone can found anywhere and see if it is now a specific problem or universal one. my code now looks like this:
def cannotFoundCity(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pPlayer = self.gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == self.gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_GUILDST EEL'):
pPlot = self.gc.getMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY)
if pPlot.getFeatureType() == self.gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_RUIN'): return false
return true
return false

ok the problem is specific to the GUILDSTEEL

Do you think I need to add a loop at the end similar to your cannotmove code for fallout?
def unitCannotMoveInto(self,argsList):
iPlayer, iUnitId, iPlotX, iPlotY = argsList
pUnit = self.gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getUnit(iUnitId)
if self.iFall == -1:
self.iFall = self.gc.getInfoTypeForString("FEATURE_FALLOUT")
self.iImmune = self.gc.getInfoTypeForString("PROMOTION_RADIMMUNE")
if CyMap().plot(iPlotX, iPlotY).getFeatureType() == self.iFall:
if pUnit.isHasPromotion(self.iImmune): return false
return true
return self.parent.unitCannotMoveInto(self,argsList)

The more Specific problem of the Guild Settler is that it doesn't have the FoundCity button at all? Rather than the button simply being 'unclickable' it just doesn't exist on the settlers action buttons?

I'm wondering if I need to add some sort of reference to settler units so that it allows them to found when they are on the ruin feature, cause i'm wondering if the computer is not allowing foundings because the GUILDSTEEL is not on a ruin square, so it just permanently switches off the ability to found?

So essentially saying to the computer
if a Guild Settler is on a ruin square return false
rather than if The Guild Civ is on a ruin square return false

because the civilization is technically not 'on' anything because it is not a unit or structure in the game?

Or perhaps something similar to your:
if self.iFall == -1:
Statement so that the computer is always checking for the option to found a city with the Guild rather than checking once finding no ruin at that moment and then permanently deciding Guild can't found Cities?

or perhaps the Cymap entry from your fallout code I just think that the computer is giving up on the guild being able to found cities rather than always looking to see if it can, if you see what I mean?

It turns out the last thing I forgot to do was turn off the ruins NoCity reference in your v3.19 again thats why it wasn't allowing it to settle anywhere not even the ruins DOH!

anyone have any thoughts

Ok new issue to deal with, the game still freezes when loading a new map. I believe this is due to the fact that the Guild can only found on ruins so the computer cannot found their initial city, someone speculated that this might happen, anyone have any ideas as to how i might be able to fix this.

a stop gap idea is to make the game play only in a premade scenario initially with a pre-generated map, this may limit replayability so would not be a permanent solution, but I can live with that for quite a long time.

any thoughts?

It Works It Works! (Dances round and round!) It finally works!!
Congratulations!

ok I think it has to do with the map generation, because i made a map and then loaded the game using that map and it got to the game screen but with a new error message, unfortunately I can't find the file that you spoke of in the Beyond the Sword > Logs folder the closest I could find was PythonErr2 here is its content

If you have a python alert displayed in your screenshot, but PythonErr.log is not produced, then check to make sure you have logging enabled in your civilizationiv.ini file:

; Enable the logging system
LoggingEnabled = 1


Ok new issue to deal with, the game still freezes when loading a new map. I believe this is due to the fact that the Guild can only found on ruins so the computer cannot found their initial city, someone speculated that this might happen, anyone have any ideas as to how i might be able to fix this.

This sounds like a problem. Map generation takes the following steps.

1. Base land/ocean, terrain and resources are distributed.
2. Initial settler locations are determined.
3. Ruins are added to the map.

#1 and #2 are done by vanilla routines; #1 is in the mapscript, and #2 is in the sdk. The only code I have added is for #3. By design, it searches for locations which are far from the initial start locations and puts ruins there. This is so that no player gets a powerful start position right next to ruins. As you can see, if #2 is searching for ruins, it will never find any.

Do you really want one of the civs to start right in a ruin? This seems very powerful.

Yeah my plan is that eventually I will change the terrain type to be 'vaults' but the idea is that these bases will be much stronger than other factions but they are far fewer and hard to find/found because you have to locate the specific terrain feature where as everyone else can found cities anywhere, so you end up with two very different styles of play but that will hopefully balance out by the time I've worked in all the faction details, units, buildings etc.

But to begin with I will just work it into a scenario game and once i have succesfully made one I might randomly generate a few more and add them as new map scenarios as a kind of bodge fix I think that will satisfy me for a long time as I have plenty of challenges to overcome to create a good mod so... I'll survive hehe

Now that Lib and Chusquero seem to have teamed up, have any of you heard of this mod?
http://civmod.freei.me/half-completed-modpacks/fallout-3-mod/ You may want to merge with it, or at least swap notes. Nitram has many great FO leaderheads here, as well: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=337520

And here's some nice buildings. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295136

Thanks for the pointer. Many of Deon's buildings are already in Fury Road. I had seen some discussion by nitram on this sub-forum. But, I am surprised he said in the thread you linked, that civfanatics was so unfriendly. I don't know what's up with that.

I don't know either, but hopefully we can prove him wrong. Are you guys still working on this? Because I may want to join if you need anyone else, my old mod may or may not be dead.

hey bahmo, my mod is still sort of kind of alive in my head but it is a slow process for me, it tends to be a case of a short blast of work then hit some sort of a bump then take a break to regroup before having another crack at it. I am currently still working on the 're-skinning' process of david's Fury mod, changing the civs and their units to be unique and specific to each race.

I am currently stalled in the middle of my great wastes tribals, I want a replacement for the flame thrower to be a 'flame pot shaman' like the 'grenadier' only looking like a tribal shaman tossing round clay pots full of a napalmesc material.

My main sources of inspiration are more the first versions of the game Fallout 1, 2 and tactics, fallout three was cool and I have played the first installment of it but it never held quite the same level of joy as 1 and 2, the switch to a first person shooter didn't excite me too much in a world already saturated with that genre.

Anyway you can see the rough beginnings of how I would like to see my mod work and also the route i'm thinking of creating it, but I would love your input and collaboration, just chatting about the ideas and 'Fallout Projects' community in general really helps to fire me up for pushing forward with my own work. What kind of stuff do you do as a modder? It would be cool to know as we could talk about the kind of things you would like to do and how we could team up and collaborate. My Areas are overall ideas, creative writing, XML based work and an imbecillic understanding of python. Be good to chat to you feel free to drop me a line on here or link to any other work you find.

yeah all of Deons work looks awesome. Been watching his stuff for a while.

Cheers

I'm mostly an XML man. I've successfully modded the game to include new structures; units might be similarly done, and I wrote a great deal of the XML for the World 2008/2009/2010 mod, of which I may be the only current member now. Be warned, there seem to have been problems with my XML documents I made for that mod, and I have not gotten it loaded (I am currently getting help from The J about it) but if you have an experienced XML expert to moderate the whole affair, like somebody with experience making a mod, then I can help out the process of modding XML.

Here are the areas of XML that I have experience with:

*Leaderheads: This is where I started modding; even after all this time, I remember that. My aim was to mod the game to make each Civ more well-rounded. Initially I planned to mod the game to expand the capabilities of every Civilization by either giving each of their leaders three traits instead of two, or by giving them three free techs at the start instead of two. I quickly concluded that the latter bonus was only a temporary advantage, and didn't even apply during scenarios, so I revised the mod and just made it so every leader has four traits. It still needs occasional revising for the sake of balance, but I have played basically every game of Civ 4 with some variety of that leaderhead mod at some point. I've also experimented with changing up leaders to have different flavors (ie, producation biases) and successfully modded the Lenin leaderhead available with Varietas Delectat to play the Soviet anthem as its theme, as opposed to just the stock music.

*Buildings: I needed some help with the schematics at first, but eventually was able to mod multiple buildings into the game using a modular folder.

*Civics: I once fiddled with this at an earlier time, though never mastered it. However, back when the World 2008/2009/2010 mod had a full staff, I originally had the task of modding Civics. I completed that file, and it probably would have worked if the actual mod did. (But who knows?)

*Traits: After a long time of adding and changing traits for leaders, I eventually decided I wanted to invent some new traits give them. I did, successfully, although I still need to do more experimentation with balancing. The traits I added to the mods, Varietas Delectat and Quot Capita are, Agrarian, Conniving, Urban, Nautical, Scientific and Resourceful.

Now that is really interesting that those were your areas.

Here is why:

Leaderheads: I've modded the graphics and civ entries for my leaders, my hope eventually is to also create entries for the civs as well (currently the entries are the same). but what I would love to do is mod the AI's and traits to better match the individual characters, the fact the you have invented some of your own is especially interesting as I think this would be great to do as well, I have a few ideas of things i would like to see but i will share those at a later date if you are interested.

Buildings: My attention is currently focussed on modding unit graphics to make each races units look individual, as I mentioned above I am currently working my way through the tribals. I would also like to do this for each civs buildings/cities, tents for tribals etc. So your experience would again be valuable for that.

Civics: again these might be interesting to play around with and see if we can do some interesting things with them i haven't really got that far with thinking about it yet. Like I said I'm working through the unit graphics for now.

I am by no means an experienced modder or experienced at running a modding group, but the simplest way for us to become master modders is to do it right? I think it would be great to work with you on building up this mod if you would be interested in collaborating with me.

I can upload my folder somewhere for you to download to have a look through, it's a little messy right now but we could work on tidying it up and also implenting notes to keep everything running on track but there aren't loads of chnages yet so it wouldn't be too hard. (Suggestions for a location to upload would be appreciated currently 118mb WinRar.)

So far my experience includes adding leaderhead and unit graphics although the backgrounds don't fit perfectly, loads of civ entries on units and leaders, unit stats and graphics, I haven't got round to adding an entirely new unit. I also added a unique settler see earlier posts for that. thats about it so far I have loads of ideas, it's just having the energy to implement them, you can see my plan of implementation in my early posts, I haven't added all my ideas onto here yet as I haven't been sure how many people are actually reading them hehe, but if your interested I can take some time to add some more detail, but a lot of the big ones are already there.

take care and look forward to working with you.

Yes; please upload your work and I'll start working on XML for the Leaderheads if you like.

ok cool do you know of a good stie to upload to as this has a 10mb limit and need over 100.

Fileplanet?

ok lets see if this works

You will need to add the 'Fallout Mk1 file to your world builder saves file and run the game as a scenario, this is due to a conflict between the fury road map script and my custom settler for BOS/EN/SM, if you try to start a normal new game it will CTD. this should be fixed in the future with new terrain and a modified map script but that is all far in the future for me, but Mk1 is fine for playing and testing new stuff I think. Have a look around it see the Leader Bio's and let me know what ideas your thinking of for modding them.

Take care and merry christmas

Latest Download added to first post

Okay, I gave it a playthrough. First, congratulations on making a mod that doesn't break down and crash, even in this infant stage. Many mods, even more completed ones, do.

Okay, now before we begin talking about the mod, a few questions. I'm assuming the scenario is still using the original map from Fury Road, as it doesn't look much like the American Southwest and there are some weird locations for factions. (The NCR is in the far East, for example!) Correct? Also, who is Christopher Lehman? Another leftover? Shouldn't the Enclave be led by Dick Richardson?

Now some comments on the core scenario; you're probably aware of these issues, but still, just to make sure, I'll address them here. First, the Fallout scenario is far too short. I had it twenty turns away before I even became able to salvage any strong pre-war units. Second, hero units are too easy to come by. They shouldn't just randomly appear in piles of rubble; they should have a large requirement for getting them. I'm also not so sure that many survivors should come out of the rubble. Scrounging it for stuff via workers is more realistic. Survivors could come from villages (vaults), though.

Now, let's go to what you wanted me to talk about, factions and leaders. I think I'll list how I see each of the factions, with their strengths, weaknesses, and my explanations and ideas.

The New California Republic
Strengths: Egalitarian and Broad-based; focused on building a modern nation-state.
Weaknesses: Relying on whatever and whomever it can scrape together to run its nation-state, which isn't necessarily enough.
Explanations and Ideas: The NCR is probably the largest territory under one government in the Fallout world, so my idea is to give them a boost in producing settlers. However, since they are often dealing with people who have questionable morals and education, as well as the tattered remains of America's infrastructure, they might not have any more advantages than that, initially. Perhaps their early combat units could also be comparatively cheap but weak. As a future goal, though, the New California Republic could become more powerful eventually, via building up their country and improving their peoples' standard of living; my idea there is to give them free happiness points for certain buildings.

The Civilized Ghouls
Strengths: Hardy.
Weaknesses: Poor.
Explanations and Ideas: Given they are the result of being in areas where radiation was heavier, and actually surviving, they should have the mutant ability to enter areas infected by fallout, as you already had one of their units be. Since they can be healed by radiation, maybe a March promotion would be a good idea. However, other than positive mutation, there isn't much of an advantage to living in areas hit by radiation; let alone that mutation can have negative effectsm as well. Perhaps their cities could start with some unhealthiness points, which players would need to work to compenstate for.

The Brotherhood of Steel
Strengths: Good at obtaining and harnessing useful pre-war technology.
Weaknesses: Generally isolated from society; made up of small, tight-knit, elitist cells.
Explanations and Ideas: Being generally an amoral faction, obsessed with technology, and a secret society with little regard for outsiders, the Brotherhood should be well-armed, but small in number. A good idea would be to give them considerably more free techs than most other factions have, particularly those related to salvaging stuff from ruins. A production bonus, such as I made for my resourceful trait, might also be good. However, they should also be handicapped when it comes to building Settlers, and maybe even Workers (the rationale behind the latter is that they wouldn't be opting for a broad set of goals on the land they control; rather they'd be exploiting key objectives as much as they could), and those units that they build should be strong, but slow to produce and perhaps requiring more technologies/prerequisite buildings.

The Wasteland Tribes
Strengths: Well-versed in living off the land.
Weaknesses: I'm really not sure.
Explanations and Ideas: Again, I'm not sure about this one. Maybe a bonus to food production would be nice, but I don't know if they had enough definition in the game to figure out what their handicap should be.

The Master's Army
Strengths: Big and powerful.
Weaknesses: Badly outnumbered as a result of being sterile.
Explanations and Ideas: Given that they're super-mutants, they could have infantry units considerably tougher than those of other factions, on top of being immune to radiation. But with their inability to reproduce sexually, they would be difficult to produce. I'm not really sure how to translate them into game terms, though. Being unable to reproduce also seems to mean that their cities wouldn't grow under normal conditions, but I don't know how to stop that. Perhaps a better choice, though, is to assume that they're constantly harvesting humans for use in their experiments; hence their cities could grow but they would have free unhappiness and unhealthiness points in them. (Since that would be done through a trait, logically the trait should give them some advantage, as well. Maybe a bonus to research.) Also, whenever they train a supermutant, a city could stop growing during production. I am unsure of what this faction's approach to vehicles should be, though it seems that it should be different, somehow.

The Enclave
Strengths: Prepared in advance.
Weaknesses: Ineffective/Tyranical at actually governing a territory.
Explanations and Ideas: Perhaps a good idea would be to give them some strong units for free, right from the start--but perhaps not; it might be too much of an advantage. Another idea is giving them the actual ability to produce strong units, instead of just salvaging them from old bases. Their handicaps would presumably be similar to those I proposed for the Brotherhood.

The New Reno Families
Strengths: Cunning, resourceful.
Weaknesses: Infamous jerks.
Explanations and Ideas: This would possibly be another civilization that exploits its citizens, but to a considerably lesser degree than the Supermutants, and with more of an economic motive. Could get free unhappiness and unhealthiness points in their cities, but also free gold and culture.

The Raiders and Slavers:
Strengths: Lack of moral restraint.
Weaknesses: Lack of moral restraint.
Explanations and Ideas: These really seem like they should be barbarians, but if you wanted to make a civilization out of them, it could be similar to the above, only instead of trading happiness and health for gold and culture, they could trade them for production and maybe a little gold.

A great breakdown of your thoughts. I'll write a more comprehensive response later but it's ridiculously late right now.

yeah a lot of what you pointed out is all noted and work in progress it's all basically stuff from the fury road mod engine, that i haven't addressed yet, like i said the majority of work done is cosmetic so far.

Have you read my first few posts, they set out some of my own ideas for the various factions, and game ideas.

a lot of what you said echoes my own thinking on the civs so that is cool what i will do when I've had some sleep etc. is copy your formatting from the above post and give you my own take on the factions and then we can look to dove tail the whole thing together, but some great thoughts already.

congratulations on making a mod that doesn't break down and crash.
The credit for the stability of the mod is all on the shoulders of the Fury Road team, as the core game is still almost entirely Fury Road.

Okay, now before we begin talking about the mod, a few questions. I'm assuming the scenario is still using the original map from Fury Road, as it doesn't look much like the American Southwest and there are some weird locations for factions. (The NCR is in the far East, for example!) Correct?

Yeah basically the map was a pregenerated one for Fury Road, I just grabbed it and used it. It is actually the mid west great plains area I think. My goal was to redesign, moving the factions around a bit and adding new terrain features etc. after completeling the initial makeover of the factions. Think of this map as the nursery where the core game can grow and develop before getting it's own mapscripts etc.

Also, who is Christopher Lehman? Another leftover? Shouldn't the Enclave be led by Dick Richardson?

Yes Christopher Lehman was left over from the original Fury Road faction, i hadn't got around to researching the key enclave leaders in detail yet and also the idea of a low level civil servant becoming "next in line for the throne" and turning into a despotic psychopath really appealed to me and felt it would be great in terms of giving an air of hypocrisy to the Enclaves claims of being "the only legitimate government" as it is being run and led by an unelected official. Also as this is kind of set in the infancy of the fallout world, think fallout 1 and even prior to it, with all of the factions just beginning to emerge, the fallout 2 and three characters wouldn't apply to much. Having said that of course John Bishop of Reno is a fallout 2 character but he is very old in FO2 so shhhhh....Don't think about it too hard hehe.

Now some comments on the core scenario; you're probably aware of these issues, but still, just to make sure, I'll address them here. First, the Fallout scenario is far too short.

yes again this is a Fury Road game element, my eventual goal would be to make a much larger game, it could also be argued that fossil fuel isn't applicable to the fallout world as in the future it is nuclear and fuel cell and fusion and battery sources of power that are used and populate the world. My feeling on all this was as I was using Fury Road as a base i did not like the idea of just ripping out all of their efforts, one because it would be a lot of work and two it was a lot of work making it in the first place. So i felt that Fury Road represeents the Dawn of the Fallout scenario and eventually the resurgence of FO's "present day technologies" would render it all obsolete in the mid to late game. a WW2 era tank is nasty against spear weilding tribals and pistol weilding thugs but against a power armoured soldier with a plasma rifle it would be just as effective as a box of tissues. So adjustments will be made there.

Second, hero units are too easy to come by. They shouldn't just randomly appear in piles of rubble; they should have a large requirement for getting them.

Yes i think you are partly right about this, part of the random appearance idea i think was that these heroes simply emerge on the world stage from out of no where, think about the player character of the FO series as well as Mad Max. In terms of the game though i think you are right or perhaps they simply need to be modified, to be more like great people, or somewhere in between. Anyway something that can be discussed further down the road.

I'm also not so sure that many survivors should come out of the rubble. Scrounging it for stuff via workers is more realistic. Survivors could come from villages (vaults), though.

Again I think you are partly right, but do not think of the ruins as rubble think of them more as war torn, partially collapsed or disused structures, but to the lonely wanderers of the Waste they still provide sources of food and equipment, can goods, clothes etc, as well as relatively warm and secure structures to rest and live in. They are then discovered by one of the 'organised factions' and asked to join them, whether with an outstretched hand or the barrel of a loaded gun depends more on the faction in question hehe. Of course they also provide a wealth of resources for the scavenging factions too.

Now, let's go to what you wanted me to talk about, factions and leaders. I think I'll list how I see each of the factions, with their strengths, weaknesses, and my explanations and ideas.

A positively marvellous idea my dear fellow! (here is my take on the factions.)

The New California Republic
Strengths: Egalitarian and Broad-based; focused on building a modern nation-state.
Weaknesses: Relying on whatever and whomever it can scrape together to run its nation-state, which isn't necessarily enough.
Explanations and Ideas: The NCR is probably the largest territory under one government in the Fallout world, so my idea is to give them a boost in producing settlers. However, since they are often dealing with people who have questionable morals and education, as well as the tattered remains of America's infrastructure, they might not have any more advantages than that, initially. Perhaps their early combat units could also be comparatively cheap but weak. As a future goal, though, the New California Republic could become more powerful eventually, via building up their country and improving their peoples' standard of living; my idea there is to give them free happiness points for certain buildings.(Me) All excellent ideas and echoing my own thoughts, I view NCR as essentially the most advanced of the non-'Strong 3' factions, eventually developing into the most democratic and stable form of governance in the wastes, i need to think on the weaknesses of this faction but i do like the idea that you had, their expedience to unite the world for a better tomorrow would have some negative impact working with undesirables. I am also thinking of adding a building to the game which is essentially a refugee centre that allows you to 'build' refugees and boost your population in this way representing the use of resources to both find and process the wanderers and stragglers of the wastes into function members of a faction. For most factions this would come with an unhappiness modifier, but i felt the NCR would have a unique version that didn't have these negative effects (or perhaps it would looking at your idea for a weakness).

The Civilized Ghouls
Strengths: Hardy.
Weaknesses: Poor.
Explanations and Ideas: Given they are the result of being in areas where radiation was heavier, and actually surviving, they should have the mutant ability to enter areas infected by fallout, as you already had one of their units be. Since they can be healed by radiation, maybe a March promotion would be a good idea. However, other than positive mutation, there isn't much of an advantage to living in areas hit by radiation; let alone that mutation can have negative effects as well. Perhaps their cities could start with some unhealthiness points, which players would need to work to compensate for. (Me) again great ideas echoing my own i like the idea of them being poor and struggling, they are all spread out and not very popular, often shot on site being that many are feral and driven mad by the radiation effects. The ghouls in fallout 3 discovered that the radiation emitted by 'Glowing Ones' can actually help to fix them up when they come apart, also Fallout 2 has a band of Ghouls living next to a slightly leaky Nuclear power station, but the effect on the ghouls is actually quite pleasant somewhat like a day spa. I also thought that the idea of them growing radiation heavy mutated fast growing food stuffs in the middle of a 'Hot Zone' would be interesting, I would imagine that eating a meal that helps to restore the molecular bonds of your flesh would be quite a pleasurable delicacy, even if it is entirely deadly to any non-ghoul. the 'negative mutations' idea is also good, perhaps this could be a stage in their development as a faction that, like you said, would need to be overcome. Another element of the ghouls in fallout is that they seemed to have an aptitude for engineering and the sciences. this could be developed in there nature as a civ, generally they are physically weak, but brainy. they would also, in the right circumstances, be quite healthy due to the healing effects of radiation. if you can call having a face like a rotting omelette healthy.

The Brotherhood of Steel (Strong Faction 1)
Strengths: Good at obtaining and harnessing useful pre-war technology.
Weaknesses: Generally isolated from society; made up of small, tight-knit, elitist cells.
Explanations and Ideas: Being generally an amoral faction, obsessed with technology, and a secret society with little regard for outsiders, the Brotherhood should be well-armed, but small in number. A good idea would be to give them considerably more free techs than most other factions have, particularly those related to salvaging stuff from ruins. A production bonus, such as I made for my resourceful trait, might also be good. However, they should also be handicapped when it comes to building Settlers, and maybe even Workers (the rationale behind the latter is that they wouldn't be opting for a broad set of goals on the land they control; rather they'd be exploiting key objectives as much as they could), and those units that they build should be strong, but slow to produce and perhaps requiring more technologies/prerequisite buildings. (Me) Again excellent ideas, i do not know if you have read my strong faction ideas near the beginning of this thread but i will add it to the bottom of this post just in case.Part of there unique strength will be their abilitiy to gain the cooperation of the wasteland inhabitants leading to less negative effects for towns they conquer or annex. They essentially run a protection operation, in exchange for manpower and resources they provide legitimate security for those towns against the threats of the waste.

The Wasteland Tribes
Strengths: Well-versed in living off the land wide and fast spreading with bonuses against wild life and melee fighting.
Weaknesses: Technology is never available in large quantities.
Explanations and Ideas: (Me) My theory is this. All of the disparate tribes unite under a great leader to fight the war against the sky spirits minions (advanced cultures) they are able to spread (security) culture quicker as they do not fear the wastes as much as it is simply their home. As a decentralized faction (each village is self sufficient) they have a bonus to costs of distance to capital and number of cities. we could also make there starting building different (so village instead of town) which gives a different set of buildings for both them and the factions that conquer them. All of their units build faster, children are trained from birth in the way of the warrior, but all of their units will be generally weaker. The way I envisage this faction working is that they will grow and spread rapidly and build vast hordes of tribal warriors but they will need more units than other factions to effectively wage war and defend themselves. Also they will have a limit on their high end gun-weilding units as they have to scavenge, capture and trade for these advanced technologies. I also thought it would be good to give them an immobile/invisible/defensive only set of units for their villages in the form of traps. (think swinging logs and punji stick pit traps etc.) which would add an element of mystery and danger to them when other factions think about attacking them.

The Master's Army (Strong Faction 2)
Strengths: Big and powerful.
Weaknesses: Badly outnumbered as a result of being sterile.
Explanations and Ideas: Given that they're super-mutants, they could have infantry units considerably tougher than those of other factions, on top of being immune to radiation. But with their inability to reproduce sexually, they would be difficult to produce. I'm not really sure how to translate them into game terms, though. Being unable to reproduce also seems to mean that their cities wouldn't grow under normal conditions, but I don't know how to stop that. Perhaps a better choice, though, is to assume that they're constantly harvesting humans for use in their experiments; hence their cities could grow but they would have free unhappiness and unhealthiness points in them. (Since that would be done through a trait, logically the trait should give them some advantage, as well. Maybe a bonus to research.) Also, whenever they train a supermutant, a city could stop growing during production. I am unsure of what this faction's approach to vehicles should be, though it seems that it should be different, somehow. (Me) again great ideas i like the idea of freezing growth during unit production. I was thinking they would have a big advantage in melee fighting. Another approach I was thinking of as mentioned in the 'strong factions' section, to limit the number of units they can build normally, and maybe have some units that have to be promoted from refugees or other unit types. With this in mind they could have unique buildings such as FEV vats that boost gold production so that they have the funds to upgrade(dip) these basic human units. Also they would have access to certain twisted creations such as the multiheaded centaurs, somthing akin to a mutant guard dog.

The Enclave (Strong Faction 3)
Strengths: Prepared in advance.
Weaknesses: Ineffective/Tyranical at actually governing a territory.
Explanations and Ideas: Perhaps a good idea would be to give them some strong units for free, right from the start--but perhaps not; it might be too much of an advantage. Another idea is giving them the actual ability to produce strong units, instead of just salvaging them from old bases. Their handicaps would presumably be similar to those I proposed for the Brotherhood. (Me) your thinking is much the same as mine (great minds and all that) Enclave would be the most advanced faction, gaining access to high end equipment and things ahead of the other factions even the brotherhood, like highest quality power armour and vertibirds. They may also be able to produce centaurs (having access to the ealry FEV research note) as well as intelligent slave deathclaws and things. their big weakness is as you say their tyrannical policies, higher-ups and soldiers have it pretty good put everyone and everything else is just a tool and a means to an end. Unhappiness and unhealthiness follow in their wake. Also most of their economy would end up like a slave labour force with inherent issues there. lots of negative buildings and effects when using, towns and villages, needing to maintain strong military presences perhaps to stop upheaval and rebellion.

The New Reno Families
Strengths: Cunning, resourceful.
Weaknesses: Infamous jerks.
Explanations and Ideas: This would possibly be another civilization that exploits its citizens, but to a considerably lesser degree than the Supermutants, and with more of an economic motive. Could get free unhappiness and unhealthiness points in their cities, but also free gold and culture. (Me) again some great ideas i was thinking of things like buildings with both positives and negatives, e.g. brothel (Unhealthy but happy) Cage fighting ring (Unhealthy, expensive, but boosts happy and unit exp.) things of that nature. Also to have the unique 'Jet' corporation (perhaps among others) that can be spread to other civs, giving reno gold and causing other factions unhealthiness, unhappiness, and loss of productivity. this could be one of the staples of their strategy.

The Raiders and Slavers:
Strengths: Lack of moral restraint.
Weaknesses: Lack of moral restraint.
Explanations and Ideas: These really seem like they should be barbarians, but if you wanted to make a civilization out of them, it could be similar to the above, only instead of trading happiness and health for gold and culture, they could trade them for production and maybe a little gold. (Me) the reason I put them as a faction was one that Fury Road already had a similar faction and two in Fallout 3 they had a very organised raider town, with a fairly well developed slave trade and a weapons market as well as food and lodging. I think that they should have, perhaps exclusively, the ability to use slavery to rush production, I was thinking they could have unique weaker but quicker to build vehicles (think Mad Max Road Warrior stlye trucks and buggies) But I think they have to be a faction as this would be a prevalent form of government and control in a post-apolyptic world, those with guns using those without guns for their own ends and comfort. Big unhappiness, perhaps some sort of negative for distance to capital or issues with tech and production, lots of stealing and slavery as the basis of development. Smart guys do not have the same prominence among the thugs and bully culture.

The Herbologists:
Strengths: Ability to heal the land making it more fertile, access to animal units, some form of indoctrination, perhaps with a 'corporation' of religion, tthat allows them to get bonuses for themselves by spreading it among the other factions, perhaps gold and tech bonuses or something. Maybe also negatives for the indoctrinated enemy towns.
Weaknesses: lack of industrialisation and production, to reflect the eco-warrior heal the world mentality
Explanations and Ideas: Original born out of the fact the fury Road had a Cult style faction, the fallout element came from the huboligists of FO2 spreading something akin to todays 'Scientology' I thought this faction could be a blending of factions such as the Techno-Cults of the Reavers (FO Tactics) and Church of the Atom (FO3) as well as the beast controlling Cult Beast Masters (FO Tactics). The Eco-warrior vibe was something purely of my own creation as i thought it would make a fun and unique motivation for this faction. Healing the trees and soil through improvements making them more productive would be cool, as well as developing a number of sustainable green technologies, perhaps with benefits to health, happiness, science, but expensive and/or taking a lot of production.


The three Strong factions:
The three strong factions are BOS/Enclave/SuperMutants. They will each start in a Vault (or similarly advanced) location. They will be able to build buildings unique to these sites, hydroponic bays, teaching machines etc.and these provide big boosts. when it comes to settlers however they have a unique version, basically these factions cannot settle anywhere other than vault (or similar) locations making their growth a much slower more controlled affair, their early units will be strong but will not be able to conquer towns (like a helicopter) as they do not have the manpower or resources in the beginning to successfully annex/control/manage larger areas and populations. So there early mission will be focussed more on discovering and securing the precious vaults rather than picking fights that could see them overwhelmed by the faster growing factions. In the Rise of Mankind mod they have advanced settler units that found towns with certain buildings right from the start (such as a port and marketplace etc) i would like to use a similar technique (if possible) to achieve this. Anyone who builds on a vault terrain square automatically founds with a vault building which will act as a prerequisite for other vault based buildings, and normal towns will found with a 'village' or 'town' building which will act as a prerequisite for other town based buildings. This will give the added bonus of the later game goals of the strong factions being that they need to conquer and control towns in order to gain access to certain building types and units. Another element could be that they have a limit on the number of units they can build in their vaults and have to conquer towns in order to gain access to limtless unit types.

a WW2 era tank is nasty against spear weilding tribals and pistol weilding thugs but against a power armoured soldier with a plasma rifle it would be just as effective as a box of tissues. So adjustments will be made there.

I...think you're exagerating a tremendous amount there. True; a plasma rifle may be able to melt tank armor or heat an internal component of the tank until it explodes, but tank cannons, even of the WW2 era, are made to penetrate armor several inches thick, and power armor is, by limits of human body size, much thinner. Plus, I've played Fallout games and taken out Power Armor soldiers by shooting them with weapons far weaker than either tank cannons or plasma rifles, so I don't buy for a second that a tank would be that weak against power armor. I guarantee you a tank would be a great deal more effective than a box of tissues, that's for sure!

About your other ideas: Mostly good, but unfortunately I cannot give them all abilities you proposed without using Python, which I definitely do not understand worth beans yet. Also, I'm unsure of limiting Super Mutants to only founding cities in vaults, considering they can be formiddable enough to ward off attackers from almost anywhere they settle. Only allowing the Brotherhood to settle in forts and other key installations, like depots, is a good idea; only normal factions should be able to settle in forts, too. The way I see it, a number of location types in Fallout games have been turned into settlements, so the game should allow for the following:

*Ruins, obviously, given they're the leftovers of settlements already.

*Forts, since self-defense is extra-important in the Fallout world.

*Large things in the water, considering water provides a lot of protection. (Examples are Poseidon Oil Rig and Rivet City.)

*Vaults, since they're safe and well-furnished. However, the issue of where all the structures cropping up over a vault came from would need to be addressed. Perhaps they could be coded to use different graphics?

I...think you're exagerating a tremendous amount there. True; a plasma rifle may be able to melt tank armor or heat an internal component of the tank until it explodes, but tank cannons, even of the WW2 era, are made to penetrate armor several inches thick,

Well If we want to get really nitty gritty technical, the tank in question as seen in your avatar pic was the sherman tank, which was well known for having a gun that is woefully underpowered, unless we talk about the british modified firefly variant which had a british 88 artillery piece. Also tanks of that era were designed to penetrate steel plate armour, something the sherman was still not very good at, not the modern forms of composite armour, such as the british engineered cholum (or chobum) (can't remember off the top of my head) which is substantially better, who knows what other composite materials were developed in the years between now and fallout, also tank guns of that era did not have modern optics for targetting so hitting a guy in a power assisted suit would be tricky with a solid armour piercing round, not to mention issues with turret rotational speeds, and an indirect hit from a high explosive round may not have the cahones to do the trick. Also the power armour was designed as a replacement for tracked armour, creating the all in one infantry soldier of the future :-) cooool. Now obviously there are certain weak points in the armor as with all things and a well placed or lucky shot could do the trick. All that being said it was just a joke so this lengthy explanation was just for fun hehe :-P.

As to some of your other points:
I know all of the traits and abilities won't be straight forward Xml jobbies, I just put up everything so you could see where i wanted to go and also perhaps entice other skilled modders to take up the challenge. Here fishy fishy :-P.
The normal civs will be able to found anywhere, although how all of this will work in game engine terms I'm not sure as there would need to be code for founding the vault building on vault terrain etc. I was also thinking that other civs would need to research the ability to open the vaults.
In terms of Supermutants I felt it would be good to keep them in the same vain as the other two powers as they are more of a conquest force rather than a colonising force so they force local populace out of an area to then take control of it, it is just a handicap to help balance their other obvious srengths just like with enclave and bos.

it also means that they will be more likely to fight a war 'between the 3' as they are all looking to control the same sites to increase their power, and the normal civs may be wary of occupying those sites as they could have all hell rained down upon them by one of the powerful civs looking to take back 'what is rightfully theirs'.

Also another little note on the idea of normal factions having issues in settling on military and vaults etc is security features that only someone with the right tech and know how would be able to overcome thus limiting access to these sites to those factions with the expertise :-)

Time to update!

I have re-worked all of the factions to function in a way that more closely resembles the way they should, based upon Fallout games. About the only thing I haven't done yet is add unique units and buildings, although I could feasibly get started on those soon; even without the right graphics.

While we're at this point, though, I thought I should start talking about the direction we want to take the mod in from here, as it relates to some rather pivotal questions.

First thing that comes to my mind is that maybe we should start working on a map of the American Southwest. I don't think this will be as easy as XML was, but it's pretty necessary for what we're doing. At the very least, we need a scenario that isn't too short and has an actual victory condition. I've never made a full map for a mod before, so if anyone could help me with that, it would be appreciated.

Another thing that just hit me today, but is a big issue: One of the key mechanics of the original Fury Road mod is arguably inappropriate to Fallout. The fuel system is pretty neat, but in the Fallout universe, all oil has run dry, and cars are nuclear-powered. I'm not sure how much we want to head that issue for the mod.

hey Bahmo send me the updated files and I will add them, I am excited to see what decisions you made with the leaders etc.

I have re-worked all of the factions to function in a way that more closely resembles the way they should, based upon Fallout games. About the only thing I haven't done yet is add unique units and buildings, although I could feasibly get started on those soon; even without the right graphics.

don't worry about the UU UB stuff just yet, I have been working on that sort of thing myself, obviously I would love to hear any idea that you have on that front but what I really want to do is make the factions almost entirely unique to each other, obviously there will be crossover especially with the buildings, but my vision for this is to have every faction playing in a unique way with unique strengths and weaknesses for their units and civs like I have said before :-)

we should start working on a map of the American Southwest

Right now the map that I am using is like I said just a nursery for the game and all the mechanics, balancing tests etc. :-)

I have downloaded a map of the whole of America from a guy called ozzy i think... we could perhaps use this as a template. I was thinking that it would be cool to make a game that is not limited to the south west but encompasses the whole of america as this will draw in all 4 FO games. FO1-2 were in the west like you said, FO tactics follows the BoS expedition into the North Central area, Cheyenne Mountain etc. and FO3 is the eastern area, also with New Vegas it covers Nevada too so I think the scope of the game is good for covering the whole of America :-)
What might be interesting is if most factions start out in the west and spread east that could be interesting, kind of like a reverse land rush of early America. My feeling on the victory condition is that total dominance would be the only end game. There is something programmed into fury road that I have not seen yet I need to talk to David to see what he actually has as programmed victory conditions and possibly disabling some of them. Actually creating a map i think is quite straight forward as it just uses the World Builder tool with the game primarily, it depends if you want to add things like specific events and special sites etc. that would require some study through the forums on our part but frankly I am not yet there in my thinking, I am still working on the initial 'identities' of the factions, then i want to look into expanding the tech tree to increase the longevity of the whole thing, it is just having the energy to get my head into doing mode hehe. Also there is Mapscripts to think about, these are the ones that generate random maps and appear to be quite complex python jobbies especially with the 'Founding on Vaults' mechanic I have added, there would need to be something that gives the 3 strong factions a vault tile to start with, or disable the initial founded city function and make something that places a vault nearby, or gives the 3 strong factions a set of units to begin with so that they can make a 'pilgrimage' to a vault site. This could be interesting as falling behind the other civs won't be such an issue as they will have tech and strength advantages anyway. Again though I am not there yet :-)

One of the key mechanics of the original Fury Road mod is arguably inappropriate to Fallout. The fuel system is pretty neat, but in the Fallout universe, all oil has run dry, and cars are nuclear-powered.

My personal feeling is that it doesn't bother me so much, this is why:

The scope of this mod i think takes in a timeline that start in many ways before FO1 and can go on beyond FO3, for instance we start before shady sands is even the tiny town that we meet in FO1 and the BoS are still setting up there new home after their long march from the FEV Facility, I know the initial settlement for BoS is Cheyenne which is completely wrong but we can fix that if we just go and do a bit of research hehe. I just watch too much Star gate and love Cheyenne Mountain :-P

But anyway the point about fuel for me is this. It has been many years since the Apocalypse that created the new world and there has been Biological death on an unprecedented scale so there could be the potential for New Oil Reserves. Also I think pre-Apocalypse oil sites would still have some oil left, just not a commercially viable amount. Think 10s or 100s of barrels of crude per day rather than 1000s and 1,000,000s. So dry i think is a relative term, there is not enough oil for even a small pre-apocalypse nation to really make use of, but for a small post-apocalypse world with strict controls on who and what actually uses it, it could be a viable amount. Fossil Fuel engines are far more nuts and bolts mechanics and could be grasped more easily than Fusion systems, I think examples of combustion engines would be found surviving in museums or even agri-culture equipment or 'prized treasures of a by gone era' and could be pressed back into service in the post-apocalypse world. Like I said before my plan is to essentially make this whole Fuel mechanic obsolete in the later part of the game by introducing the advanced technologies of the fusion systems etc. so after a certain discovery say, vehicles can be replaced with ones that start with a Fusion Cell Promotion for instance which is just a copy of the 'scrounge fuel' Promotion, which allows vehicles to run without needing a fuel truck. So I think it will make a fun mid game element that will then pass away, simple and easiest approach in my opinion :-).

The new units I have so far added are a bunch of 'tribals' plus power armour and maybe a couple of others for BoS and enclave, I foolishly put up that update up and then found a great 'tribal' button set hehe. Doh so I need to update it again :-P

Alright.

The idea of using an existing map of the entire United States is interesting, but it might (or might not) crowd out some of the factions because few of them started in major cities. I'm interested in seeing it, though, so we can determine what it would be like.

Also, was this map created with the mod? If not, how easy is it to convert it to the mod?

No the map wasn't made for Fury Road, I am not sure how maps work with each other, whether we can open the map in the mod and then re-paint the landscape to be fury road based I am not sure.

Try searching for North America maps in the forums and see what it turns up, it won't let me upload it to here for some reason.

upload your modded files too I am eager to see your changes and combine them :-)

My mind is currently circling around the idea of remaking the Tech tree as I think this would feed into all the other parts of the game especially units and buildings and at what point they arrive in game etc.

I am currently just thinking about names for techs that will fit into the Fallout World and then thinking about how these might fit together one to the next and what things they might provide. So for example 'Teaching Machines' and it could provide the vault based building of the same name that provides a science boost.

I've attached the files I've edited. Just add them all to the right folders in your installation, overwriting whenever it asks, and it should all work.

By the way; the newest version of your mod doesn't seem to have a pre-made scenario playable, and when I try to start a normal play session, it freezes.

Cool I will start combining what you've done :-) What work have you done in the unit and building files, I have done some work in those recently so I just want to make sure I don't overwrite what I have done so if you could give me a quick summary of what you have added into those I can quickly find it copy it and add it to my existing files cheers :-)
It looks good what you have done I really like most of the trait reworks I think they fit nicely :-)
Am I right in thinking it is just the leader traits that have changed?

I was wondering if NCR need an extra positive, because the civic upkeep might be quite a big negative on them, I am not sure what exactly it could be, maybe something to do with trade to show their willingness to cooperate? It just seems to me that actually Tandi is one of the best and most successful leaders in the Fallout World having created one of the largest and most stable regions in Fallout and from essentially a dusty village it seems like a truly legendary feat! :-)

I was also wondering about maybe adding a +gold per city for the tribes as a simple way of reducing the cost per city for them, so they can spread out new villages quickly.

I was also wondering about the raiders +hammers for trade, I am wondering if that will make them too passive, I feel like they need some sort of bonus for being more aggressive, not sure what that will be or how we could do it, maybe a military production bonus or something....not sure. It just feels like they need something to make them nastier and more violent.

Wow I did a lot of wondering there :-P

By the way; the newest version of your mod doesn't seem to have a pre-made scenario playable, and when I try to start a normal play session, it freezes.

In the .rar folder there should be the Fallout Mk1 map in there you just need to put that into your worldbuilder save files like before and everything should be ready to roll :-)

I experimented with trying to modify the NA map last night and it came up with some python exceptions about victory conditions, so I am not sure about the long term viability of that idea, I was able to get to the map and play around with it with the extra map elements that we have but I do not know what will happen in the long term with those victory conditions. I think more research is needed.

My edits to the building and unit xmls just give production/happiness bonuses to certain civilizations; there's no actual buildings or units added.

As to the error regarding victory conditions on that map of the US you have, if I had to guess, I'd say it's due to something pointing to the Space Race originally; a project that has been removed from your mod--but I don't know for sure.

My edits to the building and unit xmls just give production/happiness bonuses to certain civilizations; there's no actual buildings or units added.

So what physical changes have you made to these two files? I just need to be able to copy those elements across because I can't do a straight replace with those files once I have done that I can upload the new version and we should be on the same version then :-)

With the map I think it is pointing to a fury road victory condition, it is 2 of them I think. I think there is a special victory condition written into the fury road code.

Uploading a new version. I still haven't added your building and unit elements.

I have made a tester version of a new tech tree, it doesn't do anything new yet, but I added about 20 techs, take a look and you can see the sort of ideas I am thinking of. :-)

Sorry for my slow response.

The only changes I made in the Units XML are to the Settler and Worker unit, by adding several of the new traits I did as production traits, so it should be a fairly simple task of copying and pasting the work from my files to yours. The Building XML is the same deal; save that I edited more of them and also used Happiness traits. I can't list all of the structures I edited, but just searching the document for text of the traits I created (For example, "TRAIT_NCR" without the quotes) should get you all of the relevent structures.

Now about the Raiders and Slavers trade bonus: You're right, and there's a story behind that one. My original plan for the slavers was to give them a trait that subtracted happiness and health in exchange for increased production. The tags I used in the XML are, as far I can see, not used at all in the core game, so I have no idea why they're there, and assumed they were used to increase percentage of production in each city. Turns out they're not; they refer to trade routes, and they aren't percentage either; the original coding I wrote ended up giving them a totally unfair 10 hammers per trade route, so I quickly edited that out, but you bring up a good point that giving them trade advantages would persuade them to be too peaceful, so another idea needs to be found.

One new idea I came up with for them is to give them a unique version of the refugee unit, the slave, which couldn't be used to grow a city's population but could be sacrificed to hurry production (as Great Engineers are), and maybe also added to the city as a new type of specialist that grants constant production points in exchange for some negative affects. That feels evil enough, but it still isn't very militaristic. I'm open to suggestions on that one.

No worries :-)

Ok cool I will go hunting for those traits and get them added soon and re-upload :-)

I like the idea of the slaves, that would fit. There is a mod component in the forums for capturing slaves when you defeat an enemy unit, I have seen it working in the Dune Wars Mod we could perhaps explore that because that would make aggression work well for them. I think the current way is that it is a worker that upgrades one tile and is then destroyed but we may be able to add your ideas to that component, but we would obviously need to research how it is done and how it works. We could try asking David as he has worked on both Fury Road and Dune Wars so he may be in a good position to help us merge it. We'll see :-)

Ok the last of your bits are in and the new version is up :-)

Hey; sorry I've been terribly slow getting back to you. What would you like me to do from here?

no worries mate I haven't been well so I haven't really done much lately.

last big push i did was the adding in blank techs to beef up the tech tree a bit :-)

I am a bit stalled with it at the minute from being ill, we can have a crack at delevoping some more unit characteristic sets for the different factions. NCR, Ghouls, Supers well actually pretty much all of them need doing hehe, but any other ideas yaq have feel free to drop em down here.

Like I said i need another good surge of motivation to get a a bit of speed going on something hehe.

Okay; since you need a new surge of motivation, let's look at where we can go from here.

Since you proposed we use a map of the whole United States, I could add in New Vegas, Caesar's Legion, the Pitt and the Commonwealth as factions. One thing I think I want to do first, though, is change the factions to having accurate flags and leaderhead art (even if the latter would just be static images for now), so I can keep track of who everyone is. I can also overhaul the Raiders and Slavers pretty quickly.

Another thing I think we can do right now is focus on adding all of Deon's buildings into the game. Graphics actually exist, so why not focus on them instead of units? As to actually making units, we could ask Deon and Nitram if they do that, and even if they don't they might be able to help in other ways.

Okay cool here is my current thinking.

I am not so sure about adding new factions at this point for two reasons.

1) It might cause over crowding issues in terms of civs on the map, but that could be wrong and so not that big of a deal.
2) the main reason is that we will just be multiplying the amount of unfinished stuff that there is to do in terms of getting finished balanced civs. One of the main stamps of this mod that I have had from it's conception is that the various factions feel and play really differently. That each civ has a dynamic approach to the environment and the way it goes about subduing the wasteland. With multiple unique building and units, with some factions having an entirely different set of units and buildings, the the tribes for instance. So the more factions that go in the more ideas we have to have for making them unique. I haven't played new Vegas, but by the sounds of the faction names it seems like they would play out in a similar way to existing factions. I am not against adding new factions but I would like to get existing ones finished, even if such things as graphics aren't 100% finished for units and buildings etc. but just that all of the programming is in place and working so that art can just be slipped in. You Know?

One thought I had about New Vegas, is if we are designing a map scenario we could look to put in various locations like Vegas as say special barbarian towns that can be captured and have Special wonders and things in that would give a big benefit to the controlling civ something like that. We can do that with a number of places like Vault City (Med Techs) Capital Wasteland DC (water purifier, radio station) etc.

Getting deons building in sounds great, I know Fury road had a number of them added already. I wanted to download deons mod that he released because it looked like he had done a lot of great work and wanted to see it and maybe borrow it, but the mod file wouldn't download for me. I had tried to get in touch with some of the guys working on other fallout mods but without much success for collaboration.

Modding the flags would also be brilliant it is one of those jobs that I have wanted to do but my artistic ability is limited, it was one the first modding things that I learnt to do and have wanted to change them for ages, it was just a case of to what?

I really like the 3d leaderheads and have not wanted to take that step back to just pics. I have sent out a few requests to people to make some more accurate leaderheads but with limited success some guys said they would be happy to have a go but haven't heard back. Most of the leaderheads I think are pretty good representations, all of them need changing some, (Tandi's Clothes for instance) I sent out a request for a ghoul and mutant too. I like the effects that had been applied to the goblin and orc by C.Roland (which is what is there now) but I would really like it added to another base, my thoughts were ghandi for the ghoul (skinny, glasses, and a tatty old short sleeve shirt and tie is my dream) and some one like church hill for the mutant (Bald, blotchy, big squarish head). The other Job is changing some of the icon images to the new leaderhead versions as some are left over from the old leaderheads as i couldn't think how to make them. My best idea is a print screen from civilopedia or diplo screen then crop it and shrink it and convert it to dds format. Also some of the background images need resizing to get rid of the red.

The other thing I wanted to do was split the leader and civ text and have a different one for each. The civ text focussing more on how each civ works and the the leaderhead being much like they are now with the story of the leader and faction. Just need my creative brain working at a decent speed hehe.

Another thing I have wanted to do for ages is to develop some basic templates for civ designing. e.g. with a break down of units, buildings, abilities and how they all connect to one another and the techs etc. I just need to figure out a good way to do it. I did for the tech tree when I was having a go at experimenting with expanding it.

288943 Like this using openoffice impress (Powerpoint)

That way we can each have a copy of a template for each civ and fill in new ideas for all the various bits and pieces that go into a civ and periodically exchange them to both stay up to date.

In terms of unit art I have actually found quite a lot of cool stuff that would fit quite well, by scouring the databases on site and looking through various mods for stuff (I just found some good stuff in Dune wars that would work for bos, enclave and ncr probably) the hardest ones at the minute and ghoul and mutant I think. Could probably find plenty of melee ones like the ghoul survivor I added but having ones with guns is harder because no one has made anything like that (and most stuff that would fit is fantasy/melee based) With the units it is just trying to think of various original ideas that would make them play and operate differently. If you look at some of the units I added you can see the sorts of directions I am thinking of. This is why I want to make that designer template as it would help to be able to see an overview of each faction and how it will work as a whole in game. If you get my thinking?

I've got loads of ideas swimming around in my head it is just a case of coming up with a way I can lay out all the fragments so that they make some kind of sense to somebody else who is looking at them. Your break down of the civs was great for that, just need to take it to the next level of detail with everything that is involved in a civ from unit stats to research connections to building connections as well as unique qualities. I am also wondering about trying to create new unit types so that we can great more combat flexibility and interaction. Like Super mutants and power armour units then other units that can be specifically strong or weak against these iconic fallout elements.

So summary.
Buildings (great!)
Flags (Sweet!)
Leaderheads (I like the 3ds :-( :-P but small images need fixing)
Factions (More work less progress?)
Units (good art out there just need good unit ideas to go with them also unit requests tend to get better response when designers see a working mod that looks enjoyable and they want to get their art skills in to make it even better :-))
Think about Civ Design template, also what kind of office software do you have for compatibility reasons :-)

As always it's great to hear your ideas as they really help to get my own brain going again and wanting to push things forward :-)

I'm giving the Brotherhood of Steel a go, and am trying to found a new city but it won't let me. I saw a reference somewhere to only being able to found on particular resources or something but don't have a can't find any that'll let me. Has this not been implemented or am i not looking hard enough?

aaah yeah mate sorry the terrain has been added it is just not on the map yet the game is still just a testing platform at the minute, so it isn't really properly playable.

I had been experimenting with making the vaults a resource rather than a feature so I could then get TECH TO REVEAL IT BUT FOR SOME REASON IT DOESN'T REVEAL WITH THE TECH SO i AM STARING A T IT CONFUSEDLY HEHE whoops caps hehe

No worries! I was watching Mad Max and wanted some post-apocalyptic fun. It is looking pretty cool so far and I'm always willing to try out new mods ... or old mods that have new releases.

:-) One day we kight actually get it all working :-) The original fury road mod is very mad max inspired, don't know if you've already tried it or not?

Hmmmm. Well I tried my hand at designing an america map but sadly without much success. problems like some teams not starting and others starting in multiple. I wish I could just access the map and modify and add the teams but I can't seem to do it any other way than loading a game and accessing world builder from there...

I find myself frustrated with this task...
Oh also I had to abandon the 'revealing' of vaults as I couldn't get it to work so it shall have to remain as a feature..

I think my next job will be taking some time out to devise some buildings and maybe units and figure out with what tech things will go with....

OK here is a first attempt at a civ design template. It is a spreadsheet. Try having a look at it to see what I have done it contains a list of all the techs. So if you want to have a crack at designing all the buildings and units for a civ that would be cool.

Deleted

Some Ideas Before Bed:

Trade Caravans: bring traders into the game in a big way like mini great merchants. make them quick and easy to build but they need escorts to be protected and survive. Make them crucial to the economic viability of the civs especially early on. You need to operate regular caravans because your nation will be running in a constant negative cash flow, so it has to be regularly topped up by caravan revenue. With the advent of corporations this can be changed so that corporations provide enough gold to bring you into the positive, representing privatised trade routes and guard operations.

Supermarkets/iguana's/ and other resources: I was thinking about adding a supermarket building to some ruins that greatly increases it's food production. in the same way as depots, munitions etc. obviously iguana's need to be added as well, with buildings that match with them. Something like skin trader for gold and food vendor for a food boost. we could do this with a number of resources.

Melee/ranged: I have been pondering a way to try and make melee units remain beneficial after ranged weapons come into play. I am thinking about Supersledge and powerfist fighters etc. I was thinking one way might be making melee units stronger but ranged units get first strikes. I am not sure how these really work though so don't know what the right balance would be. Alternatively melee could have a benefit for city attack or something like that, like the swordsman in normal games.

I've got loads of ideas I am just finding it hard to focus on something and develop it to implementation in the game, I have done a little fiddling with buildings, added a couple of new ones and moved some of them to be available with different techs. I also need to sit down and fix the values for the various technologies..

Let me know what you are working on just incase I need to upload the latest version for you to add to. hopefully with the things you said you would do it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

hmmmm... Still having problems with the map. grrrr I may have to start again again with it and see if i can fix it.

Having problems still with it doubling some of the civs and when I remove them it stops everything working and I get CTD when trying to play certain civs.

What A Pain!

Hey, been watching this for a while and I'm interested where this will lead.

Anyway, you weren't sure how first strikes work, here is a short explanation of combat.

Each unit has 100 hitpoints. Combat is done in rounds.
The damage you deal per round is equal to the strength of your unit modified by promotions and abilitie ( of you and your opponent). So a 4 strength unit with +50% strength will do 6 damage per round.
You and your opponent try hitting each other each combatround. Attacks can miss, though I'm not sure exactly how high the chance to hit/miss is.

First strikes are what they sound like. For each first strike you get one combatround to damage your enemy at the start of combat without him retaliating. Obviously first strikes still can miss.
First strikes chances are a. i think. 50% chance to get a firs strike combat round.
If both you and your opponent have first strikes, they cancel each other out.


So, yeah in the context of melee vs ranged, pure strength vs first strikes does make sense, since ranged weapons can hit earlier, but are not necessary stronger than some melee weapons in the Fallout universe.


Anyway, keep up your work and don't give up.

Yeah I figured it worked something like that, just wondering what a good balance would be and how much 'power' first strikes translate to so how many they should have and how weak they should be, I guess part of it will be trial and error.

hmmm is your strength multiplied by your hitpoints or something I am just trying work out how it effects, obviously when you are damaged it reduces your strength
by your percentage of damage....a stronger unit takes out a weaker one with fewer successful hits I guess the animations responds to successful hits....can only one side get a successful hit in each round..so either you or your enemy do damage each round but not both....hmmm. is a more powerful unit also more accurate in terms of succesful hits. If you are stronger you great a greater percentage chance to hit per turn?.....hmmm

I keep hitting brick walls with things so it slows progress, I am ill so motivation and ease are big factors for progress and every time I hit a wall like with these stupid map problems hehe I want to take a break :-P

It is good to know there is interest out there it helps me to push on and try to work things out :-)
I just seem to hit more walls than highways :-P

Anyway feel free to drop any ideas for anything, units, building, techs etc. even little ideas if I use them or not often help to spark off good directions for me :-)

now if i could just whip this map into compliance.......

ARGH!.....

I managed to create a map with just the right number of civs but now when I try to modify it it will not save my changes..... Well it does but not if I remove something.....

Example: deleted NCR Capitol moved it south saved it. loaded new game NCR capitol is where I left it but a second town has been placed on the site of the old capitol so NCR now has two towns! WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm maybe I have to load a new map and make all of my placement changes first time round and see if that makes the difference.....

nope....this is so annoying! OK too tired giving up for tonight bed time...

Success! Hooray!
I finally have it that I have the right number of civs and they are starting where I want! It was something to do with saving and loading the map, I think the final solution was I had to make the change, exit world builder, enter world builder, save it, then reload. After that is when it seemed to register the change.....I think....?....Anyway

HOORAY! Now I just need to mess around with the rest of the map adding in all of the right terrain and features, resources etc....ugh....hehe

Ok most city ruins and highways added, just resources now....I wish I could get my hands on deons mod....

Hey Bahmo, I have just seen that there is a trait in a mod called 'the test of time' that gives '+100% Pillaging' maybe you could message the creator and see if we can use that for the Raiders and Slavers?

Ok I have begun to implement Vault And Village Specific Buildings. Now Vault Cities cannot build most of a normal town buildings, but has and will have in increasing amounts Buildings that can only be built in a Vault and that are generally better than what a town can have.

So far Vault has:
Hydroponic Farm
Armoury
Archives
Cinema
Maintenance Facility

Suggestions are welcome. Bahmo let me know if you want me to upload the latest version so you can see how to implement vault and village stuff if you want to be adding in what is left of Deon's buildings


AAAAH I lost almost all of my building work when my hard drive went poof!! Excuse me while I cry in the corner! Along With all of my planning files......

Interesting project, I still have fond memories of playing Fallout 2 back in college.

As far as first strikes vs. combat percent, I can explain a few things. Shoggi was on the right track with the way combat works. A unit at full strength has 100hp, and the combat occurs in rounds.

Assuming there are no first strikes involved, someone always wins a round. The damage dealt by attacker and defender is computed at the beginning before the rounds start and is based on the ratio of the 'CurrCombatStr' of each unit. This is 'BaseCombatStr', taken straight from XML, times the percent of health left, times any combat modifiers. So a 10 base:strength: unit at half health with combat 3 has (10 * 50% * 130%) = 6.5:strength:.

The damage calculation uses a ratio based on the two units Current Combat Strengths that is slightly more complicated than I need to go into. If the two are equal in strength, the damage for both is 20/round.

The other important number is the DefenderOdds, which is the odds of the defender winning each round. The AttackerOdds are just the inverse of DefenderOdds (e.i. 1 - DefenderOdds). This number comes from the formula
(iDefenderStrength) / (iAttackerStrength + iDefenderStrength)

So if they are both 10:strength:, its (10/ (10+10)) = 50%.
A badly skewed battle, lets say 20:strength:vs5:strength: is (40 / (40+5)) = 80%

for that same 20vs5 situation, the damage is 36 vs 10.

So, on any given round, the defender has 80% of doing 36 damage, while the attacker has 20% of doing 10 damage. Since both damage and the odds of inflicting damage go down/up at the same time, this is why badly damaged units (therefore very low 'CurrCombatStr') have so little chance of inflicting much of any damage to an opponent.

Now here's where first strikes come in. If our 5:strength: unit had 5 first strikes, as long as he has first strikes, he can inflict damage if he wins a round. If he loses the round, the first strike gives him a pass on receiving damage. Since he's horribly outclassed in both 'AttackerOdds' and 'iAttackerDamage', it won't do him much good. He has (.2^5 = .032%) odds of winning all five rounds he has first strikes on, which if he won all five, only did 50 damage. So he's still dead :lol:

Switching it around, the 20:strength: unit with 5 first strikes only needs to win three rounds to kill the 5:strength: unit. His odds of winning at least three of his five free rounds is 94.2%.

The take home point here is that first strikes are only really useful if you are stronger than or at least on par with the opposing unit to begin with. The more powerful you are in comparison, the more powerful they become. If the choice is between a combat and drill promotion, the combat will always be the stronger choice, but a unit with City Garrison 1,2,and 3, therefore with a very high Current Combat Str while in a city, could benefit well from further drill promotions to compliment it. They are just worthless by themselves :).

I'll also add that 'chanceFirstStrikes' are figured before a battle picking a random number in the range of total possible chance first strikes. If you have 3 chance first strikes, you have a 25% of having 0,1,2,or 3. Since first strikes are already weaker than combat percent, I don't understand why Firaxis decided to weaken them more by making chance first strikes.

Finally, just as a note, if you increase the number of first strikes/chance first strikes given by drill/other promotions by anything significant to balance them you'll need to change the AI valuation for first strikes or else every AI unit will pick promos with them over anything else. I can help with that if you wanted to go that route.

Ok now my head hurts hehehe

Yeah I always thought first strikes didn't seem to work so well anyone that had them always seemed to end up dead :-)

So still need to think carefully about ranged/melee combat....hmm maybe the city attack strength or something similar is the way to go with it....

The thinking continues. Thanks for your input :-)

Also your avatar pick is great hehe

Ok now my head hurts hehehe

lol, mission accomplished then.

So still need to think carefully about ranged/melee combat....hmm maybe the city attack strength or something similar is the way to go with it....

Well, in DuneWars you've got a similar situation with ranged and melee, and the approach taken there has indeed been melee specializing in city attack while guardsmen are the primary ranged units and as the name suggests are best for city defense. Most melee units start with some city attack bonus (there are some exceptions, depends on the unit). Most guardsmen start with some city garrison bonus (again, a few specialized exceptions) and a first strike to represent their longer range.

As long as they are on par technologically with who they are up against, and using their strengths (e.i. defending a city), any first strikes they have could go a long way. You just have to keep in mind that units have to have strengths other than the first strikes in order for the first strikes to be effective, and they can become a useful part of unit balancing.

I've got a lot of knowledge with Dll changes by the way. I'm working on DuneWars right now, but if you need some advice or someone to make small changes here and there, you can pm me and I'll see what I can do.

Also your avatar pick is great hehe
:goodjob: Yeah, I really like it too. Alien was an old boy scout camp staff nickname of mine, so it fit. Still mark all my code comments with ALN. Granted I have no idea what that image actually came from, just found it searching the internet. It was originally very, ah, bluish, but I did a little creative re-coloring.

Yeah Dune Wars is a great mod I have it on my system big fan of the Dune series too

and Fallout 2 is a classic game I have all of them on my system except for New Vegas but I was disappointed with the switch to FPS for Fallout 3, But I have dreamed of there being a Fallout Strategy game to play and after playing Fury Road I thought well lets see if I can make something to be proud of hehe. So we shall see.

I will almost certainly take you up on your offer of DLL work :-D I haven't actually looked into what it does and what it's needed for in terms of modding it just seems to be the deepest darkest stuff hehe......SCARY! I am hoping to put trade caravans into the game and someone mentioned the AI needs changing but apparently Afforess managed to do this with his AND mod. but that may be something that I come picking your brain for soon :-)

Anyways thanks for the postings :-)

Actually while I think of it there maybe a project you could help with or maybe give me some insight into how big it would be.

One of the Civs the Herbologists, I would love to give them a 'restoration' style play/victory. Basically trying to plant trees and grass and flowers and restoring the scorched earth of the waste to it's former beauty, similar in some ways to the Dune Eco Victory. So that might be something we could look at in the future :-) But no rush for it as I still have tonnes of XML jobs to do implementing new buildings and units and things.

Again Cheers

Well, generally where DLL modding will be most needed for what you are doing is adding an additional xml tag and implementing it in the code, like the 100% bonus to pillaging you mentioned recently. The way such a thing is added is adding obviously the xml tag itself, but then in the DLL where pillage gold is calculated add in a check for the tag and multiply the normal amount by the amount specified by the tag. Then it'd also need pedia text coded for it. That particular example is pretty straight forward.

As for the Terraforming in DuneWars, it's actually all python, DavidAllan's work. Probably wouldn't do it exactly the same way I'm assuming, but once you get to that point, if you lay out how the mechanics should work, I should be able to write the code.

In the mean time, I can do the odd tag as you need them.

That sounds great mate :-) Cheers

I'll leave off it for now, like I said there is a lot of stuff that I can be getting on with so there is no point bothering you just yet :-)

I will wait till I have a game that is essentially usable then begin putting in expansion style stuff :-)

Python bug is getting me down

Work has temporarily ceased till I can find the heart to try and tackle it again.

Why oh why will you not join the settlements Refugees!

Setbacks and disappointments boo... I recently lost all my files when my harddrive when poof! and I realised I hadn't backed up ANY of my mod files......(IDIOT!) So i am downloading my latest released version to see just how old it is!

Python is still an issue?!? The New python code I added works but the old original 'Fury Road' Python code does not and honestly I have NO idea why?!? Mostly because I am thick!