I would like to improve WolfRev. My main focus now is to improve the lag effects in the late era and reduce the number of MAFs users experience. For high end machines they have no problems, but for low end computer users (like myself), some of the art is just too top heavy. I'm a function over form person myself, while aesthetics is important, I don't think it's a good idea to sacrifice functionability for prettiness.

Goal: Increase playability for low end machines.
Action: Remove all 2000poly+ units and replace them with less detailed art.

How can I do this? I have no experience with art related modding (and honestly have no desire to, making models does not appeal to me, though I am very greatful to those who do enjoy this part of modding). The only thing I have done so far is make my avatar like a button (using the GIMP). Other then that I have no knowledge of how nifscope and such works. So is there an easy way to identify 2000+ poly models? I can unpack and do all the basic stuffs, just once the art itself is under scrutiny, I'm lost. For anyone with experience please point me in the direction of a tutorial, or give me one on how to identify 2000+ poly models (once I find them I can remove them myself easily, it's identifying them I don't know how to do).


Other Goals:
Continue with the Wolfshanze mod type mod. Wolf has disapeared, and there are still a couple units I'd like to add in to flush out the Modern/Information era (going from WW1 infantry to Slightly Post modern Mechanized Inf is too much of a jump).
So anyone know where I can find the following art (I've looked but haven't yet found what I'm looking for):
1)Late WW2/Korean/Vietnam era APCs, multiple ethnic variants
2)Buttons:
-Seafaring Tech
-Turret Design Tech
-Gas Turbine Tech
-Fireworks (National Wonder)

My wishlist, please help out if you know how I can do the above, or where I can find the said buttons/models.

NifViewer has a polycount function somewhere.

Snafusmith made some APC units, and sniperrabbit made massive amounts of buttons, so you might want to check some of his packs out (they're in his signature).

Wolf is over at Apolyton, since he had personal issues at CFC.

If I can help out in any way, I'd like to try Phungus. Just got back into Civ4, and I really dig WolfRev.

Wolf's only posted 3 times in the last 2 months. All his posts have been short two sentence notifications that he is busy, but is still working on 2.86. Assuming Wolfshanze returns, I doubt wolf would be interested in removing the high poly units anyway. This has been brought to his attention before, and his oppinion was users of his mod should get better computers, or find another mod. Hence, I need to take this on myself. Unfortunetly I don't know jack about nifscope or any other aplication that can determine the poly count of models. That's why I'm hoping one of our modding artists will give me some time saving tips. My goal is simple, identify all 2000 poly units in the wolfshanze.fpk. But sometimes simple things can be hard to achieve.

What I'm hoping to avoid is having to spend a few hours reading up on nifscope, and then view and go through 20 or so steps for each model to find the poly count. Though this may very well be nessasary. Every other part of the process I can do myself, I just don't know how to identify the offending models, and I'd rather not have to spend a couple of days figuring out how to do that first step.

I was able to get some help over here: http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/NifSkope
and also to load some models from the FFH mod that shipped with BTS, but I couldn't find any such models in WolfRev's Assets strangely. Haven't found a poly count option yet.

EDIT: There is a .nif script for importing into Blender (which is freeware, yeah! http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/) and that does have a polygon count according to what I've read.

Oh, the Wolf art is packed in the Wolfshanze.fpk file, found in the main assets folder (it probably needs to be unpacked using packbuild (http://civilization4.filefront.com/file/Pakbuild;51173)). That's why you can't find it ;)

Thanks for looking into this GoodGame.

Ah so that's where it is. I was able to get Blender and the .nif scripts installed, and was able to open up the naked .nifs in from the FFH Ice Age mod. Problem is then figuring out the exact polygon count.

There's a Fa window for faces, when you view the 3D object. Apparently it's quad faces. There's also a 'decimator' that lists triangle polygons. So the triangles are 1/2 the faces. Not sure what figure you actually want. The 'mammoth with carriage' I looked at had about 1500 faces.

Also loading models is probably a little more time-consuming in a full 3D modeller, but apparently some of them have scripts for reducing polygon counts. Might be worth researching that. Edit: apparently that's what the 'decimator' does. Found the docs for it here: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:Manual/Modifiers/Mesh/Decimate

I'll see if I can crack open the Wolf mod art then.

I can finally find the Decimator tool, but I can't get it to work. Seems it's for 'sculpting' with 'metaballs'.

Using Blender to do some 'baking' of polygons might help out to render the high poly units to lower amounts while still looking good. E.g. http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-246/render-baking/

I was actually just going to gut the art, and remove all the high polygon units. If you can "bake" the models so that they aren't so system intensive, that would work to. Mainly I just want to remove all 2000+ poly models from the mod, unless it is a model absolutely nessary for gameplay. Thanks again for looking into this, you're saving me days of work, I'm very grateful.

Any chance I could get a list of the 2000+ poly units you have found?

I haven't actually worked on getting the WolfRev unit art unpacked yet. Sorry.

If you can get blender/nifskope up and running yourself perhaps we could pool efforts and start with units on opposite ends of the alphabet? I could start from the A's, you from the Z's? :)

I should have some time over this weekend to progress on it.

EDIT: I guess the best way to proceed would be to mark the offending units first, then see if there is already a suitable low poly replacement on the internet, and if not then use Blender to make a low poly version.

EDIT: I guess the best way to proceed would be to mark the offending units first, then see if there is already a suitable low poly replacement on the internet, and if not then use Blender to make a low poly version.
They will all be ethnic or Unique Units. So finding the replacement art will probably come from the Wolfshanze.fpk itself (expand the range of an equivalent ethnic unit, or us another ethnic unit to replace a UU).

Guess I'll be downloading blender when I get home? Is that the best program to use for finding out the # of polys? Keep in mind I am broke so free is essential.

Well if the Nifskope actually listed poly count, it'd be good and probably faster. I couldn't see it listed obviously. I suppose if you could find some docs for it that it might be faster than Blender.

To load up Blender, you need Blender (blender.org), python, the .nif scripts for Blender (from Sourceforge.net), the python add-on that the .nif script needs, and then you have to learn the Blender interface a little. It took me about an hour and half to get it set-up and skim some basic interface tutorials. Pretty fast and easy program for a modeling program though.

I take that back. The Sceneviewer: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=163585

actually does work, loads models super quick, and gives a polygon count that seems to agree with Blender's 'faces' count. And no need to install as much stuff as Blender.
I was thrown off by the 3DS Max requirement, but actually the .nif editor is stand alone (and free).


Download one of these: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159481
Unzip, and copy the "boundshape" files to every unit directory that you want to check.

Then run Sceneview and it'll load. Triangle count relates to polygon count AFAIK.

Just follow the tut directions:
Preparation

Download the 3ds max plugins, if you have 3ds max 6 or 7+ then download the appropriate version and unzip directly into max’s root directory. If you don’t have 3ds max then download any version and unzip wherever.

Once unzipped find the files BoundShape.nif and BoundShape.tga. For any unit you wish to open in the NIF viewer you will need to have these two files in the same folder as that unit (for convenience you can copy these two files into all the unit folders in the civ4 installation directory).

UPDATE: If you get a missing MFC71.DLL dll error, just google it. The first link points to a site where you can download it with isntructions on where to put it.

Thanks for the help, I'll be looking into this tommarow, been busy today with stuff in general, and getting WolfRev 1.3.0 packaged properly (it's been built all day, just futzing with the install script lol), anyway let me know when you find any offending units, and I'll do the same so we don't do re do the same work.

Again thanks for the help, I really apreciate it.

Ok I got pakbuild running with Sceneviewer. Only problem is the way I've installed it there's texture/shader issues. Almost everytime I load a model, a shader error appears on the Windows toolbar that I have to click off before the model loads. Technical glitch that you might experience too.

I did a quick run through the units that weren't 'ethnic' or at least weren't in ethnic-sounding directories.

The > 2000 triangle models are:

Merchantman 6000 triangles
Early Bomber 5200 triangles
Early Flyer---model "mystypeh" 2300 triangles
Light Carrier---model "langley" 4100 triangles
Cog 2700 triangles

There were probably a 2000-2100 that I let slide.

The models I ok'd were:
protected cruiser,
destroyer escort,
galleass
all the iron clads
heavy tank
all the rams
liberty ship
seaplane
uav

I suspect some of the other new 'generic' units are hiding in ethnic folders.


So if you break into the ethnic folders before me, post here which side of the alphabet you attack, and I'll check before getting back to work. I'll assume I'll work from "A" side if you don't.

I'm going to delay working on this from my end, and start digging into the Python Code I want to update for Revolutions today (and possibly for the next few days, depending on how that goes). When I do start doing this, I'll start from Z side of the alphabet. Thanks again, you're saving me a ton of work, and basically doubling the speed at which WolfRev will be updated to be Low end machine supported.

Took a glance at the Cities art, and quite a few of them have high polys.
Medieval European and all the Asian and also ancient African have 3000 to 10000 polys.

Also the worked water icon for the Industrial era is 2200 polys.

In the African folder:
African chariot: 2300 triangles
African marine: adds 900 triangles with its addons. Can't tell what the sum is for that unit.

In the American folder:
B-52 @ 3300 triangles
Chariot @ 3500 triangles
J2F seaplane @ 2500 triangles

In the Arabian folder:
Axeman's doodads @ 2000 triangles. With the base model it's ~2500-3000 triangles

The T55 tank is ok. That affects other ethnics that reskin it as well.


In the Asian folder:
Asian Explorer @ 2200 triangles
galley_dragon oars add 1800. Probable that full model is >> 2000 Not sure what unit it is in game.
mounted_swordsman (knight) arms add 1200---final model may be over 2000.
trireme addons at about 1500---final model may be over.

Ok:
The cog_atakebune model is ok. Asian cog Just noted that it's ok unlike 'vanilla' cog.


In the Austrian folder:
Only thing bad is Medieval Warlord unit @ 2500 polygons.




I'm wondering if some of the addons "fx", etc.. are just alt frames of animation. But some probably are cut and paste ethnic diversity, so I think I'm right that they add to total polygon count.

In the Babylon folder:

Crossbowman doodads @ 1500. Probably that whole unit is >>2000
Swordsman doodads @ 1500. Again probable that unit is >>2000


In the Byzantine folder:

Chariot @ 2300 polygons
Crossbowman doodads @ 1700. Probable that unit is >> 2000
Heavy swordsman (maceman) doodads @ 1700. Again probable that unit >> 2000
Pikeman doodads @ 1800. " " " "
light sword (sword unit) doodads @ 1700 "" " " " "

I just realized, this is to improve performance on low end machines. But problems with slow down and the dreaded MAFs don't occur until the Industrial era. So there is no need to purge (or examine) units before the Industrial era. The exception being galleon variants (like that 6000! poly merchantman), as Civs will build them if lacking coal or oil in the industrial era.

I'll take that into consideration. I'll still post probable >> 2000 polygon models in case a second pass is needed later to eliminate MAFs.

The Carthage folder was completely ok.

The Celtic folder was ok, except the warlord, medieval unit is @2500 polys

In the Chinese folder:
The heavyswordsman (axeman) is slightly over 2000 polys. About ok.
The cavalry doodads @ 1500 so total unit probably >> 2000.
The horseman (horseback riding) doodads have the same issue.

In the Dutch folder, everything is ok.


In the Egypt folder:

The "egpytcuirassier" is @ 2600 polys
The "warelephant" doodads are at 2000, so the unit is definitely over 2000.
The Mig21 is @ 2700 polys
The components of the mideast 'settler' unit is @ 2400. Whole unit may be even more polys

In the English folder:

The "battleship" is 6000 polys. it's in battleship_kgv folder.
"HMS_warspite" is 4000 polys
"chariot" is 3500 polys
"hpo100 no rigging" is 4000 polys (in ebomber_hpage folder, early bomber unit)
"pup" is 2400 polys (in efighter_sopwithpup folder, early fighter unit)
"gladiator" is 2400 polys (in fighter_gladiator folder)
"illustrious" is 2200 polys in the "supercarrier"


Can't compute total of the marine (with sten) but it looks like it's just under.

Ethiopian folder: everything ok.

European folder:
Archer doodads @ 1500, so unit is probably around 2200 polys


French folder:
"mnf_dunkerque" in battleship folder @ 6300 polys
"curiassierfr" (curaisser) @ 2200 polys
"nieuport17" (early fighter) @ 2400 polys
"spadvii" (early fighter) @ 2300 polys
"bleriotxi" (early flyer) @ 4300 polys
"marines" @ 2400 polys

German folder
"He111" bomber @ 4800
"fokere3" (early fighter) @ 2500
"taube" (early flyer) @4000
"tornado" (jet fighter) @ 2500
"grafspree" (in heavyCruiser/grey battleship) @ 3900
"ju87" (light bomber stuka) @ 2500
pikeman doodads @ 1600 whole unit probably > 2000
"brandenburg" pre-dreadnought @ 5000

Wow, that's alot of high poly units in the navies. Too bad we're going to need to gut the art for the steam age navies to increase the performance of the Mod, but it is a necessary price to pay. I really think ending MAFs and making the mod playable on large maps for mid range systems is worth reducing the ethnic art variability (a purely aesthetic consideration).

I'm currently playtesting my new python code for city distance, it will probably take a day or two to be satisfied with the balance of the code. It's stable and working great, but I need to tweak the values so that it's balanced. After that I'll join in and help.

Of course, given how fast you are tearing through this, it's possible you'll be finished by then. In which case we can begin working on a beta by the weekend :cheers:

Just wondering here;
Are you going to leave a version for the people w/ higher end comps who want the better unit models, or are you going to do one version of the mod? I'm not complaining here (I can't even use the mod unless I decide to go get BTS) but I'm purely curious as to how this will be handled. :D ;)

Edit: sorry if this sounds stupid, but what is a MAF?

MAF is a memory allocation failure. It causes a crash to desktop. It's not a problem with the code, just overloading your RAM/Video Card, so you can just reload and play on, but it's still annoying.

I do plan on having a High Deff and a High Performance versions available, yes.

Thanks for the info! :) I've never experienced one of those. *crosses fingers*

Wow, that's alot of high poly units in the navies. Too bad we're going to need to gut the art for the steam age navies to increase the performance of the Mod, but it is a necessary price to pay. I really think ending MAFs and making the mod playable on large maps for mid range systems is worth reducing the ethnic art variability (a purely aesthetic consideration).



I suspect that most of the problem is way too much superstructure was drawn on a lot ships (I presume they were General Matt's work) but probably that can be removed and the 'normal mapping' process applied to get the 3D details transferred to the texture maps instead. I think it will be a tedious process, such that UU's will have to be taken out of the mod for a long while.

Greek folder:
curaisser @ 2300 polys

Indian folder: everything ok.


Japan folder:
Chariot doodads @ 2000. Whole unit >> 2000 polys
Warelephant doodads @ 3600 polys
horseman model is 2000, Whole unit probably > 2000 polys
"ijn_mikasa" (pre dreadnought) @ 5300 polys
spearman doodads @ 1600. Whole unit about 2300 polys

Khmer folder:
Curaisser @ 2200 polys

Korean folder:
marine @ 2200 polys

Mail folder:
Grenadier doodads at 1500; Whole unit probably >> 2000

Meso folder (as in Mesoamerican)
curaisser @ 2700 polys
warelephant (elephant_andes) doodads @ 2700; Unit >> 2000
galeass / trireme_fx @ 2700


Mideast folder
curaisser @ 2300 polys
ancient warlord @ 2100


Mongol folder is ok, except settler might be over--can't compute the total polys.

Native folder:
Sioux_knight is 3400 polys

Ottomans folder
Chariot doodads @ 2400, whole unit >> 2000
knight doodads @ 2300, whole unit >>2000
spearman doodads @ 1500, whole unit ~ 2300
swordsman doodads @ 1500, whole unit ~ 2200

Persian folder
heavy swordsman doodads >2000, whole unit >> 2000

Polish folder:
Archer doodads @1500, whole unit about 2100
pzl37 (bomber) @ 2200
curiasser doodad @ 2600, whole unit >>3000
heavycavalry (knight) @ 2600, whole unit >>3000
ancient/medieval warlord @ 2500

Portuguese folder is ok.

Roman folder:
battleship rm_littorio @ 7300
cannon ~ 2300
fiat42(fighter) @ 2400polys
tornado (jet fighter) @ 2500 polys
medieval ancient_warlord @ 2500 polys

Was going to get cracking on this, but where do you download that sceneviewer you and white rabbit speak of? Google gives me tons of links that look like spyware downloaders to me if I put in sceneviewer in search.

Edit: Man this sucks. the sceneviewer thing, 3smax or whatever refuses to install, says it can't find my redistr.msi or whatever. And blender refuses to open .nif files, saying it can't read the file type, even though I have downloaded and installed the .nif scripts.

Edit: OK finally got nifscope working. But how in the world do you count the polys?

I couldn't find info on counting polys with nifskope. There is a forum, programmer's feedback, etc...(@ Niftools) but I didn't take time to try that route.

Sceneviewer didn't give me any problem. I take it you mean the one in this distro: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159481
correct? I just unzipped the distro to a new folder, then used unpack to open the wolfshanze.fpk file to that folder. Then I told XP that sceneviewer was the default program for .nif files. Then, you copy the "boundshape.nif" and "boundshape.tga" to every folder that had .nif files to open (i just shortcutted them to the clipboard and CTRL+V'd as I examine files); Do that and then go in the folders click on the name of the .nif file you want to examine.

I don't recall needing an .msi file for Sceneviewer. If you do need one, just download one from Microsoft. The .msi's are just their proprietary means of distributing extensions for XP/Vista. You may need to install some of Microsoft's extensions to support it, IDK. If you do, Microsoft's help pages probably explain what needs to be done.

EDIT: And you might get a shader error of some sort in sceneveiwer. Just close the error window on the windows bar and the model will still load, but without textures usually.

Edit: for Blender, to use the scripts, you have to use the Script buddy window to make sure the script is initiated, then you can load the file. I went to Scripts window, then one button to the right on the toolbar is the Scripts window--click it and select from the popup "Import"---> then select NetImmerse/Gamebryo script (for .nifs). The script will execute, and then you can go to a file windows and pick the .nif folder/file that you want. Then you just select the 3d-view window.

Russian folder
Battleship is 6000 polys
Su25 (jet fighter) is 3200 polys
Tb3 (bomber) is 3300 polys
Tu22 (stealth bomber) is 9700 polys
Chariot is 2200 polys
Nieuport11 (early fighter) is 2500 polys
Mstype1 (early flier) is 2200 polys
Mi24 (gunship) is 3100 polys
Swordsman doodads @ 1400, total ~ 2100 polys
T-90s @ 20,000 polys NO KIDDING


Couldn't open I16 fighter (something wrong with the data)


Spain folder
Spanish galleon is 10,000 polys


Vietnam folder
Mig21 is 2700 polys
chinahorseman is probably >> 2000 in total

Viking folder
knight doodads @ 1600, whole >> 2000 probably
Machinegun @ 2100
'greekphalanx' (viking pikeman) @ 2200


And that's a wrap!!


Looks like the big poly units are odd battleships, the odd airplanes, ethnic chariots and elephants, warlords, over-detailed-cut-and-paste ethnic units, and Wolf units that were probably ripped from other games.

Sweetness!

I'm going to start working on this right away, that's alot of XML work that needs doing now :crazyeye:

If you want to keep helping here is the next phase:
Identify Models, and check polycount that we could use for:

1)Motorized infantry (Late WW2-Cold War era APCs)--Bridges gap between Infantry and Mech Infantry
2)Modern attack choppers
3)Transportation choppers -Will be upgrade for Paratroopers
4)Modern Spec Ops -secondary upgrade for Paratroopers
5)Armored Scout -ie armored car--Bridges gap between Cav and Tanks/Gunships

That's it, that's all that's on the block for Bronze, Steam & Tears. Once this is done we will have a working beta to test.

Like I said I'll start working on the XML now. If you can get just one unit for Motorized Inf, the Attack Chopper, and Transportation chopper, I can use the Navy Seal as a unit for Spec Ops, and one of the armored cars that looks low detail from this site to get a working beta going. Probably within the next 24 hours.



List of Art on chopping block:

Merchantman 6000 triangles
Early Bomber 5200 triangles
Light Carrier---model "langley" 4100 triangles
(cog and early flyer saved. Cog is an early unit, so I'm not too worried, and it's needed with little replacement art available, and there is only a single early flyer ever, and it is usually upgraded quickly)

In the African folder:
African chariot: 2300 triangles

In the American folder:
B-52 @ 3300 triangles
Chariot @ 3500 triangles
J2F seaplane @ 2500 triangles

In the Babylon folder:
Crossbowman doodads @ 1500. Probably that whole unit is >>2000
Swordsman doodads @ 1500. Again probable that unit is >>2000

In the Byzantine folder:
Crossbowman doodads @ 1700. Probable that unit is >> 2000
Heavy swordsman (maceman) doodads @ 1700. Again probable that unit >> 2000
Pikeman doodads @ 1800. " " " "
light sword (sword unit) doodads @ 1700 "" " " " "

In the Chinese folder:
The cavalry doodads @ 1500 so total unit probably >> 2000.
The horseman (horseback riding) doodads have the same issue.

In the Egypt folder:
The "egpytcuirassier" is @ 2600 polys
The "warelephant" doodads are at 2000, so the unit is definitely over 2000.
The Mig21 is @ 2700 polys
The components of the mideast 'settler' unit is @ 2400. Whole unit may be even more polys

In the English folder:
The "battleship" is 6000 polys. it's in battleship_kgv folder.
"HMS_warspite" is 4000 polys
"chariot" is 3500 polys
"hpo100 no rigging" is 4000 polys (in ebomber_hpage folder, early bomber unit)
"pup" is 2400 polys (in efighter_sopwithpup folder, early fighter unit)
"gladiator" is 2400 polys (in fighter_gladiator folder)
"illustrious" is 2200 polys in the "supercarrier"

French folder:
"mnf_dunkerque" in battleship folder @ 6300 polys
"nieuport17" (early fighter) @ 2400 polys
"spadvii" (early fighter) @ 2300 polys
"bleriotxi" (early flyer) @ 4300 polys
"marines" @ 2400 polys

German folder
"He111" bomber @ 4800
"fokere3" (early fighter) @ 2500
"taube" (early flyer) @4000
"tornado" (jet fighter) @ 2500
"grafspree" (in heavyCruiser/grey battleship) @ 3900
"ju87" (light bomber stuka) @ 2500
"brandenburg" pre-dreadnought @ 5000

Japan folder:
Chariot doodads @ 2000. Whole unit >> 2000 polys
Warelephant doodads @ 3600 polys
horseman model is 2000, Whole unit probably > 2000 polys
"ijn_mikasa" (pre dreadnought) @ 5300 polys

Korean folder:
marine @ 2200 polys

Mali folder:
Grenadier doodads at 1500; Whole unit probably >> 2000

Mesoamerican folder:
curaisser @ 2700 polys
warelephant (elephant_andes) doodads @ 2700; Unit >> 2000
galeass / trireme_fx @ 2700

Mongol folder:
...settler--can't compute the total polys.

Native folder:
Sioux_knight is 3400 polys

Ottomans folder:
Chariot doodads @ 2400, whole unit >> 2000
knight doodads @ 2300, whole unit >>2000

Persian folder:
heavy swordsman doodads >2000, whole unit >> 2000

Polish folder:
pzl37 (bomber) @ 2200
curiasser doodad @ 2600, whole unit >>3000
heavycavalry (knight) @ 2600, whole unit >>3000
ancient/medieval warlord @ 2500

Roman folder:
battleship rm_littorio @ 7300
fiat42(fighter) @ 2400polys
tornado (jet fighter) @ 2500 polys
medieval ancient_warlord @ 2500 polys

Russian folder
Battleship is 6000 polys
Su25 (jet fighter) is 3200 polys
Tb3 (bomber) is 3300 polys
Tu22 (stealth bomber) is 9700 polys
Nieuport11 (early fighter) is 2500 polys
Mi24 (gunship) is 3100 polys
T-90s @ 20,000 polys NO KIDDING
I16 fighter (something wrong with the data)

Spain folder:
Spanish galleon is 10,000 polys

Vietnam folder:
Mig21 is 2700 polys
chinahorseman is probably >> 2000 in total

Viking folder:
knight doodads @ 1600, whole >> 2000 probably

Just a thought, you might want to do it in two passes, as you'll lose a lot of ethnic art, if you hold strictly to 2000 as the cut-off; Also I find it curious that the Warlord unit is 2500 polys, which makes me wonder if that might not be an acceptable limit.

So, I'm thinking...maybe put anything over 3000 polys on the chopping block for the first pass, and then playtest it for MAFs, before chopping up everything over 2000?

EDIT: And I think transport helicopter would be better represented as a new promotion that gives amphibious, extra movement (as much as a paratrooper), and is interceptable by air planes.

Uploaded a working alpha build in the WolfRevolution thread in the modpacks forum. I tried to delete the PlotSystem, and CitySystem XML files (so that it would load default civ's), in the belief that that would remove city art. Unfortunately that causes an art bug crash, so I had to leave those files in there. Any chance you'd be willing to go through the city art and identify the extremely high poly building models in there? I know there are a couple, and it looks like I'll need to manually remove their refernces in the xml, which means I need the troublemakers identified.

ok, I'll take a look at the added ethnic buildings.

There are only so many GGs around at one time, thats probably why they are higher poly.

Yeah, I didn't axe those, or the early flier. Not too many of them around, so I didn't bother.

Also GoodGame, I'm still getting errors flying from the native_american.nif file, in my resmanager log, so don't worry about that one, it'll be getting axed regardless (I wonder if the nif is corrupted or something?).

Only as remark, you should also consider the formation size, a 800 poly vanilla warrior also makes also 2400 for the entire unit, so perhaps 2500 (or even 3000) could be still acceptable for a unit, the same for buildings, one which is only build in one town can have more, one which is displayed multiple times in a city (city art) should have a low count

Only as remark, you should also consider the formation size, a 800 poly vanilla warrior also makes also 2400 for the entire unit, so perhaps 2500 (or even 3000) could be still acceptable for a unit, the same for buildings, one which is only build in one town can have more, one which is displayed multiple times in a city (city art) should have a low count

That is true on the formations; Given that vanilla units are usually under 1000, a 3000 poly limit for the formationless vehicle units sounds reasonable (what I was thinking anyway since so many ethnic diversity units break 2000, but not 3000). My own experience is I only get MAFs and MAF-like errors at the end of a DCM stack attack, and usually around about 16 units per battle total, but not usually at say 8 units in the battle. So maybe like 10x3000 = 30,000 polys?
But I know others, I guess Phungus included, have regular issues with high polys. Phungus, you play without DCM stack attack, right?


On the city art, I believe each .nif is used only once per city.

yes, but iirc the city art (the town itself, not the improvment buildings) nif has alot of different meshes and if only some of the meshes have a high polycount not the entire citiy art must be dropped. Beside this your are right, library etc are only used one time per city

But I know others, I guess Phungus included, have regular issues with high polys. Phungus, you play without DCM stack attack, right?

Yeah, no stack attack. In the BST alpha slowdown has improved slightly, but not as much as I'd hoped. I'm wondering if it's the city art that's still causing a problem.

I would really like to play with Stack Attack, but i heard it causes problems so :sad:.

Hey Phungus, I just noticed this thread and support what you are trying to do since I use the same art in my mod as well. Perhaps varietas delectat can replace some of these high count poly arts and/or ethnic cityscapes and other graphics mods.

In the English folder:
The "battleship" is 6000 polys. it's in battleship_kgv folder.


for me it has ~2200 (after converting the NiTriStrips to NiTriShapes) ;)

there are two different types of meshes: NiTriStrips and NiTriShapes, the first shall perform better, but will have in most cases a much higher polycount. another example, the f22 Flintlock1415 uploaded has 10000 as NiTriStrips and ~2100 as Shape). You can transform the meshes in nifscope (rmb on the NiTriStrips -> Mesh -> Triangulate) or in nifviewer (rmb on the NiTriStrips in the Scene Graph Tree -> convert to NiTriShape)