As soon as we make contact, we will be able to trade our two starting techs (or maybe only one of them) for a technology from another civ. If we get lucky, and the first civ we meet has two different techs than we do, we may be able to get both if we throw in some gold. Particularly, if we can get alphabet through an early trade, I think we should. The AI will get both of our starting techs very quickly even if we don't trade them, so we should try to get what we can for them.

To whom? ;) If it's a civ that can get a UU that way, then I say no. Sure, they'll discover it eventually, but it will give us some breathing room.

I believe the only civs that would get a UU from our techs are the Babylonians and the Greeks, so hopefully, that would not be a problem.

If we do not do this during the first couple turn chats (possibly only the first one), it will be too late, so we need a plan.

I submit that if we can get alphabet from another civ (other than the Greeks or Babs), we should do so immediately after making contact.

Note that I am assuming we will make contact sooner rather than later. If we don't make contact in the first 20 turns or so, this is a moot point anyway.

If we do make contact, we should atleast stop the game at that turn.

Originally posted by Chieftess
If we do make contact, we should atleast stop the game at that turn.

Or we could do that.:goodjob: There will of course, be pressure to continue playing, however. Regardless, it is never to early to start discussion.

i dont think we should trade bronze working because if we launch an earlier offensive it would be easier against warriors than spearmen also we could trade warrior code but if the babylons are the nly person we know then i dont think we should

Our neighbors...err... enemies, will have bronze working well before we can get any troops to their cities whether we trade it to them or not.

Eyrei is right, if we encounter an expansionist civ as well, we should trade for what we can get, as they will undoubtly pop a hut for it anyway, and are more likely to find other civ's too.

CT is right, the game should stop when contact is made, or at least prior to making any deals.

Agreed. Trying to withhold 1st level techs will be a pretty pointless activity, as the expansionists will manage to amass the lot between them and then trade them to each other, so we might as well profit from trading our starting tech while we can. I also agree that the game should stop before any deals are made.

I agree with some people,depends on the civ we meet. But basically I say:trade them for as much as we can grab.

the aztec are mil/relig. the uu is a joke and its already there. we cant trade them war. code because they already have it. cer. building could be extracted whe we sue for peace, then break peace and attack. also, they may have popped a hut and found something. attack them and see if we can grab their techs.

i would say: trade it!

Looks like we can trade bronze working to the Aztecs for either ceremonial burial or pottery.

i say trade, if we dont trade with them someone else will and we might as well capitalize on our early contacts.

neutral leader is a good, responsible provincial governor

you are right. at that level propably all of them are more advanced than we are soon ;-)

I agree that we should trade, and suggest going for pottery rather than cerimonial burial so that we can set our 2nd city up as a high yield settler factory. We can grab CB from them in a peace settlement later on.

@SAaM - The Aztec UU is far from a joke, in fact I consider it possibly the most useful of them all. We should just be thankful that the AI doesn't know how to make the most of it!

Eklektikos, I have to argue with you over the Jag. How useful can a unit be that with the discovery of something as basic as bronze working has its combat skills made obsolete, and with the wheel or horse riding is matched in speed. Maybe its useful as a scout, but that doesn't last long and in battle it can be quickly overwhelmed. I woukdn't count it as the most useful or useless unit, but its nothing special.

@donsig. i posted here regarding the opinon of the FSD. quit with the libel.

grandmaster it can move 2 thus allowing early war before the dicovery of bronze working

Originally posted by Grandmaster
Eklektikos, I have to argue with you over the Jag. How useful can a unit be that with the discovery of something as basic as bronze working has its combat skills made obsolete, and with the wheel or horse riding is matched in speed. Maybe its useful as a scout, but that doesn't last long and in battle it can be quickly overwhelmed. I woukdn't count it as the most useful or useless unit, but its nothing special.
Jags are pretty weak individually, but in large numbers they can descend on and destroy or capture enemy units and cities before your victim has even had time to see them coming. Not only are they cheap and fast, but the retreat ability means that they rarely need to be replaced. A small group of them can chase down and beat horsemen without the risk of the horse retreating, and a slightly larger group can bring down swordsmen and spearmen. It's easy to amass a goodly number of elite jags and since you're beating down enemy units down a hp or two at a time, there are plenty of opportunities to sick those elites on 1hp units, thereby giving you a great chance of producing Great Leaders very regularly.
In essence, if you use Jags well then you can cripple every civ that shares your continent during the ancient era and be left in a position of near unassailable power for the rest of the game. Now if that's what you call nothing special...

The jaguar Warrior is just an Aztec replacement for the Regular warrior. In other words The Jaguar Warrior has no preq. ;)

Point taken, but still.... you have to admit its not nearly as useful as the Panzer (but its a helluva lot more useful than Cossacks in my opinion.)

Originally posted by Grandmaster
Point taken, but still.... you have to admit its not nearly as useful as the Panzer (but its a helluva lot more useful than Cossacks in my opinion.)

I would have to aggree with you Grandmaster. I use the Panzers all the time. I have even expanded the German tanks in the editor so I can upgrade the Panzer to the Leopard II Tank :D. In the normal game I tend to play the Germans and get there Panzers and roll over my enemies.
Any back on topic, we should avoid traiding Tech (When our civ and the traiding civ are the same tech level) that enables the creation of military units to any civilizations. It is safe to trade pottery to another civ, for example. But not the tech that enables them to build military units. (Bronze working, Iron working, ETC.) If we are Technologicaly advance then it is safe, but not when we are (almost) have equal tech level.

I agree. The only way to win a war is to have superior technology. We should under no circumstances trade away Bronze or Iron Working, and I think the Aztecs already have warrior code. If we find another civ, however, that doesn't have Warrior Code, I'd say trade it. Back to my old standpoint, the Jag is nothing to fear. At best it can run away from our advancing waves of troops (and horses neutralize that). Against anything but another Warrior, it can't put up a fight. That is all.

I support the sale of bronze, since chances are they'll get it anyway and we'll have missed our chance to profit. Iron Working is of course an entirely different matter. It would take a truly massive offer to convince me that trading that is a good idea.

@Grandmaster: I think we'll have to settle this disagreement when PtW comes out! ;) :D

Do we need to profit if we're planning to make war on the Aztecs? Won't we get what they have anyway, or are we taking them right out? Or, egads!, have we decided on peace even before the war starts?

Right back @ Eklektikos: Fine by me. You can use your Jag Warriors, and I'll use my Panzers, and we'll see which UU is better, and settle this for all time.... But on the point of bronze, its true that by the time we build an effective invasion force they'll have already discovered Bronze. However, a suggestion: wait a bit before trading. That way, if they're working on Bronze, they'll have wasted research time. Plus, it will at least forstall for a coupla turns the production of spears. Cutting down production by even 1 defender might mean life or death, so it might be a useful strategy. And if they find it in a goody hut, then it woulda been too late anyway, but thats the way it goes.

Originally posted by donsig
Do we need to profit if we're planning to make war on the Aztecs? Won't we get what they have anyway, or are we taking them right out? Or, egads!, have we decided on peace even before the war starts?
Well, if we want to make our second city an effective settler farm then it makes sense to get a granary put up in there as soon as possible, which means pottery. Waiting for that tech until we've beaten up the Aztecs enough to put the squeeze on them would slow our expansion and make it harder to support the large military force I envisage for the next phase of aggression, so I think it'd be worth it.
And don't think your wanton use of the P-word slipped past unnoticed. Wash your mouth out with soap young man! :D

get ceremonial burial!