The issue has been raised that our Tribe might be better off as a Monarchy rather than a Republic. There are certainly advantages to both governments, but are there greater advantages for an Agricultural and Religious Tribe to be a Republic (even early in the game)?

We cannot allow a single king or queen to rule our people! We must have representation, is this not what we fought to found or civilization on? The judicial and legislative branches could be erased from our government's existence under a monarchy!

billybones is right. This isn't an "I Am the State" game, it's a Democracy Game!

civplayah, i am billybones27. :gripe:
the government doesn't necessarily represent our own government system. i don't want that interrupting strategic choices, and a monarchy could be a lot better than a repub.

Republic is better partly because there is more raw commerce that can become beakers or cash to rush or upgrade units. With Republic, we can have faster tech progression. We'll have to be more careful with wars, but by no means is war impossible to manage with a Republic.

civplayah, i am billybones27. :gripe:
the government doesn't necessarily represent our own government system. i don't want that interrupting strategic choices, and a monarchy could be a lot better than a repub.
:lol:
You are right, billybones27. Our Demogame government will not change it's system just because the in-game government changes. This is "The Democracy Game". So our decision-making process will remain the same.

But I agree with TheOverseer714's reasons and there's more. Everything, except War Weariness is better. We may even find ourselves in a war before we achieve the Republic Technology. Then we would wait until the war ends before we changed our government style. I do like learning the Monarchy Tech, as I always enjoy building the Hanging Gardens.

But keep plugging away, ya never know, ya might get what ya ask fer.

civplayah, i am billybones27. :gripe:
the government doesn't necessarily represent our own government system. i don't want that interrupting strategic choices, and a monarchy could be a lot better than a repub.

Sorry. You guys both have tanks, and I wasn't paying attention.

civplayah, i am billybones27. :gripe:
the government doesn't necessarily represent our own government system. i don't want that interrupting strategic choices, and a monarchy could be a lot better than a repub.
Their propaganda is working! We cannot listen to these "elite" when they say that by giving them all the power we will be able to fight wars better. Back when this country was founded we joined together under the ideals of equal representation, we cannot just give unlimited power to the elite because we fear war!

I think people are missing what Black Hole is really saying...

He's basically illustrating that not all our decisions need be strategy based.

ie. in roleplaying fashion a Democratic group should be opposed to to being in a dictatorship of any sort. Regardless of the pros or cons.

An interesting point, imo the strategic arguments are winning here though; republic allows greater economic growth which will underlie our later development including our war-making abilities. I know that conflicts require more management under republic but isn't that why we're all here - just think of the debates we can have over where to send our one warrior! ;) Moreover, as Cyc points out, we don't know how the game's going to go; should we find ourselves at war early on we'll probably have to adapt our policies to suit our needs and hold off on Republic until we're ready.

The over-all plan is flexible; I think we just need a preferred direction here. An early Republic would get my vote.

He's basically illustrating that not all our decisions need be strategy based.

ie. in roleplaying fashion a Democratic group should be opposed to to being in a dictatorship of any sort. Regardless of the pros or cons.

which confuses me, as decisions should come before roleplay, we aren't here to lose and say that the reason we lost is because we chose role play above proper decision making. if a monarchy is better, than we ignore the fact that we are an actual democracy and go for monarchy.

anyway, wouldn't we want to see our surrounding terrain and neighbors before we decide? i mean, if there aren't many goldmaking spots, then the republic gold bonus would easily be outpaced by the extra money we'd have to spend on lux slider and unit support.

Different people have different motivations/priorities.

Civ 3 DG1 alot of people were for using despotism pop rushing to help give us a leg up early on. But the idea behind the game mechanism is slavery, and the idea got voted down based on that principle alone, that as a free-minded people who value liberty we should not use slavery. I believe that game was also spent mostly in Republic/Democracy Governments.

We also had some Forest reserves that were forbidden to be cut down despite that it would have increased city productivity.

We still dominated and won that game. Overall, any decision based on RPG shouldn't be so bad that it has a great potential of causing a destruction. It's a large part of the fun for many. Discussion such decisions and making decisions more on beliefs then gameplay.


Anyway... I think Billybones27 is correct... the final poll/decision should probobly be after game creation at least. But by the first turn we should have an initial idea which one we want to aim for to start off with to know where to aim our tech.

which confuses me, as decisions should come before roleplay, we aren't here to lose and say that the reason we lost is because we chose role play above proper decision making. if a monarchy is better, than we ignore the fact that we are an actual democracy and go for monarchy.

anyway, wouldn't we want to see our surrounding terrain and neighbors before we decide? i mean, if there aren't many goldmaking spots, then the republic gold bonus would easily be outpaced by the extra money we'd have to spend on lux slider and unit support.
We have played plenty of games where we try to play perfect and win. I think the idea of playing on Monarch is that it would allow us to have our decisiosn be influenced by roleplay instead of purely what is mechanically better. As such, all of my arguments you will see this game will be of roleplay nature and not game mechanics, because I find that more enjoyable.

I think people are missing what Black Hole is really saying...

He's basically illustrating that not all our decisions need be strategy based.
:) I didn't miss it. I just wasn't able to match Black_Hole's RP skill. If I had more time....



We have played plenty of games where we try to play perfect and win. I think the idea of playing on Monarch is that it would allow us to have our decisiosn be influenced by roleplay instead of purely what is mechanically better. As such, all of my arguments you will see this game will be of roleplay nature and not game mechanics, because I find that more enjoyable.
I like this. The ideal way to play a DemoGame, IMO. By George, no wonder I appointed you Chief Justice. I don't miss the beheadings at all...

You have an excellent point, Black Hole. I guess we can beat the AI on Monarch easily, we might as well take the fum to the next level. I support a republic now.

were religious so switching bet govts wouldnt be a prob
id rather republic at peacetime, just switch to monarchy for war (obviously) =)

I just really like the hanging gardens... :p

Once we are a Republic, couldn't we elect our King?

Sure, and you'd be next in line, but pirates can't be King. Sorry.

We have discovered how to be a republic. Now the question becomes when.

Should we finish the settler currently being built and have our anarchy while it is moving?
Should we wait until the secret of Iron Working has been discovered?

Completing the Settler sounds good if it's only a couple of turns, otherwise I think I'd just get on with the Revolution. Could we pop-rush the Settler to get it quicker? I'm not sure how long until it's built at the moment. The population would grow during our anarchy. I don't think I would wait until Iron Working, but then I don't know how long that would be either at the moment. Will have to look at the save...

Could we pop-rush the Settler to get it quicker?

I'm against this idea, what sort of people are we if we're willing to enslave people and literally work them to death, just to finish a project a little quicker.[/Roleplay motivations]



That, and while I can't look at the save at the moment to see actual practicality of it but... pop-rushing + Settler will severely reduce the city's population.

I can be seen as a cruel player, but pop-rushing a settler? Besides, we are not Republic-ready, we barely have roads built and have basic at best infrastructure in our cities. We'd also be guaranteed to lose the Colossus race if we revolted any time soon. The AI is a little slow at this level, but not that slow.

we're building the Colossus? If we really want that then we should wait. Oh, boy, I really must look at the the save...

The Settler is due in 1 Turn I believe. We should probably revolt right after that and move into a Republic the next turn, hopefully. I can't see rushing Settler either, even though we don't need to.

But, as far as TO's comment about not being ready for a Republic, I disagree. It may be a bit fast for the change, but I can't see a problem here. There will be no draw back because of the move. Our government wil be prepared for growth at any speed, from any quadrant of our empire. Irrigation will be utilized to its fullest extent. Commerce will flourish. And we will be able to pay our citizens overtime, instead of cracking a whip.

Can you pop rush in Despotism? I thought that was only available in some of the advanced government types like Monarchy and Feudalism.

The question is whether we should risk missing the Colossus if we get a long anarchy.

Yes, pop rushing is the only way to rush in Depotism.

As our Tribe is religious, our period of Anarchy will only last one turn. Our chances of missing the completion of The Colossus because of 1 turn are not that great, but I have seen it happen.

I've decided to make a poll on the question of when to become a Republic (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=318002).