If Time Travel were possible, which historical people(s) would you say are Time Travellers, and why? It doesn't only have to be the cliched inventor-ahead of his time (a la Da Vinci), but it could be anyone at all. Someone who said things that were oddly prescient, or did things that turned out to be useful centuries later, or a horrible catastrophe that was suddenly ended through the sudden appearance of some random person, and so on. It could even be an entire country, who's culture seems oddly out of time. It's a very open ended thread.

They'd go back in time to stop the Nazis from starting WWII, but in a weird twist of fate, they'd actually become the Nazis and cause it themselves!

Nostradamus springs to mind immediately...:D

Nero.

...

Tourists and tour guides, obviously.

Nero.

...
Ha.

They wouldn't be historical figures if they were smart, they would just be average people observing.

Ha.

They wouldn't be historical figures if they were smart, they would just be average people observing.

Wouldn't some go rouge?

IMO if time travellers do exist they'd make sure they aren't "noticed" when changing history to their liking.

There are several time periods in our reality where it looks suspiciously like someone has tampered with the timeline and changed its direction. The Ming not seizing the moment for overseas expansion but suddenly running their naval superiority to the ocean floor and turning inwards for example... :mischief:

Nostradamus springs to mind immediately...:D
You mean the political satirist that never predicted anything in his life, and whose life was nothing like it's described?

Merlin was supposed to be from the future and to age backward, for what it's worth. Almost certainly not an historical personage though.

I'd have to go with the Count of St Germain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_of_St_Germain): the man who lived forever and knew everything.

Other likely travellers could be Lee Harvey Oswald - think of the damage Kennedy could have caused - John III Sobieski and Jesus, among others.

Why Sobieski?

Why Sobieski?
Is he not the one that helped defend Vienna from the Turks?

Is he not the one that helped defend Vienna from the Turks?

Yeah, he lead the troops and died defending Europe.. but why would that single him out as a "potential time traveller" ?

Yeah, he lead the troops and died defending Europe.. but why would that single him out as a "potential time traveller" ?
Because "he died defending Europe." Maybe the Turks were gonna win and destroy Western Civilisation. Not that that's all bad....

Ha.

They wouldn't be historical figures if they were smart, they would just be average people observing.

Who know what would happen to rome if he didn't burn the place down?

Tourists and tour guides, obviously.
That makes me suspect you've read Robert Silverberg's novel Up the Line that is about a guy who works as a tour guide, taking groups of tourists on one and two-week trips to ancient Byzantium. :mischief:

Jules Verne

Wouldn't some go rouge?
I just noticed this. That would explain Bill Gates. Went back in time with his advanced computer knowledge and buiit an empire.

Jules Verne
:confused: Most of his science fiction wasn't very accurate in its predictions.

Maybe he was like the Mecanno man, purposely inserting mistakes in the instructions to test the mettle and intelligence of young British children.

Maybe he was like the Mecanno man, purposely inserting mistakes in the instructions to test the mettle and intelligence of young British children.
Maybe it's even more devious. Maybe PiMan is himself from the future, a future where Verne's' predictions have in fact finally come to pass.

Doctor Who came back in time, to invent himself in a TV series, Doctor Who...

I can easily imagine a time-traveler who merely observed, bought first-edition mint condition comic books, coins, books, etc. and then traveled back to his antiques shoppe where there and on Ebay, I ... er, he makes a good living.

They wouldn't be worth all that much unless they aged appropriately. You... er, he might not be able to pass of legitimate items as legitimate in that case (artful copies, surely, but the real thing?).

Doctor Who came back in time, to invent himself in a TV series, Doctor Who...
You'd think that if he did that, he'd actually make the show worth watching though, wouldn't you?

Because "he died defending Europe." Maybe the Turks were gonna win and destroy Western Civilisation. Not that that's all bad....

Yeah, if the Turks took Vienna, they would have been within striking range of most European capitals.. I don't think Europe would have been able to get their %@%@! together fast enough to respond to the thread in any sort of unified manner.

Still, what time traveller would have went "Hmmm, I'm gonna go back in time, take the Polish throne, and defend Europe from a Muslim invasion." as opposed to "I'm going back in time, bringing my boom-stick with me. %@& those muslims"

Yeah, if the Turks took Vienna, they would have been within striking range of most European capitals.. I don't think Europe would have been able to get their %@%@! together fast enough to respond to the thread in any sort of unified manner.

Still, what time traveller would have went "Hmmm, I'm gonna go back in time, take the Polish throne, and defend Europe from a Muslim invasion." as opposed to "I'm going back in time, bringing my boom-stick with me. %@& those muslims"
A boom-stick would have fundamentally altered European culture. They'd be convinced God saved them from the Turks with his magic howitzer. Who knows the damage that could cause.

Or maybe it's more subtle. Maybe the real threat was Poland, and Sobieski had to fight the Turks to leave Poland open to attack. You Poles are a devious, wicked lot. Look at how you invaded both Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939, provoking them into occupying you and destroying them both from within.

They wouldn't be worth all that much unless they aged appropriately. You... er, he might not be able to pass of legitimate items as legitimate in that case (artful copies, surely, but the real thing?).
He might simply use say, long-term safe-deposit boxes, or sites he knew would remain undisturbed (thus allowing an item to suitably age) 'til he retrieved the coins, or stamps, or... (I cannot get into the details as it would surely bore the layperson)

Leonardo Da Vinci and Aristotle.

Nathuram Godse, Sirhan Sirhan, the unknown Arab who killed Iulianus Apostata, Ptolemaios Keraunos, and François Ravaillac were all time-travelers.
Yeah, he lead the troops and died defending Europe..
No, he didn't.

Who know what would happen to rome if he didn't burn the place down?
I thought you were referring to the new Star Trek movie, where the plot focuses on Nero, a Romulan who traveled back in time to prevent Kirk's birth.

Who know what would happen to rome if he didn't burn the place down?
The same thing as historically, since he almost certainly didn't burn Roma down.

I thought you were referring to the new Star Trek movie, where the plot focuses on Nero, a Romulan how traveled back in time to prevent Kirk's birth.
Great, this is what happens when JJ Abrams is given control of anything. Now Star Trek is stealing ideas from Terminator.

The same thing as historically, since he almost certainly didn't burn Roma down.

Yes he did. He was a crazy . .. .. .. . who burnt it down to get more place for statues. Of himself.

He also built a copper colossus of himself.

Yes he did. He was a crazy . .. .. .. . who burnt it down to get more place for statues. Of himself.

He also built a copper colossus of himself.
Take a Tacitus and call me in the morning.

I can easily imagine a time-traveler who merely observed, bought first-edition mint condition comic books, coins, books, etc. and then traveled back to his antiques shoppe where there and on Ebay, I ... er, he makes a good living.

all you need is the sports almanac!

Wouldn't some go rouge?

I suppose if they were travelling back to the late seventeenth century and wanted to pass themselves off as Restoration dandies, that would be the best way to blend in.

If I were a time traveller I would do exactly what Gary Sparrow does in Goodnight sweetheart: give everyone chocolate and pretend to have written the Beatles' songs.

I can't say that I think this thread really belongs in History though.

I suppose if they were travelling back to the late seventeenth century and wanted to pass themselves off as Restoration dandies, that would be the best way to blend in..

Would anyone believe that is the second time i've made that mistake in 24 hours...and have been made fun of both times? :lol:

whoever killed Huey Long and stopped the US from becoming facist was probably a time traveler. The man promised prosperity and in turn asked for complete power, if he made it to the white house who knows what would have become of democracy? A US-nazi germany-italy-japan alliance would have been unstoppable.

whoever killed Huey Long and stopped the US from becoming facist was probably a time traveler. The man promised prosperity and in turn asked for complete power, if he made it to the white house who knows what would have become of democracy? A US-nazi germany-italy-japan alliance would have been unstoppable.
Except that a) said alliance wouldn't happen, and b) Long wasn't a fascist. Fantastic demagogue, but he wasn't going to win the election anyway.

The builders of the Pyramids of Egypt were time-travellers, all of them were bored engineers and farmers from the future.

The builders of the Pyramids of Egypt were time-travellers, all of them were bored engineers and farmers from the future.

I thought they were aliens coming to show us backward humans the One True Way?

I thought they were aliens coming to show us backward humans the One True Way?
Why can't they be both? :dunno: Makes as much sense as anything Von Daniken writes.

Maybe all the guys who tried to assassin Hitler (it happened 42 times throughout his 12-year-reign, and they all failed) were time-travelers, or at least some of them.
They failed, because you can't alter what has already happened. Everything you do in the past is neccesary to happen in order that all the events which happened then are really all going to unfold, so that the time line won't get divided into two parallel worlds to each other, whereas in some universe an alteration had significantly changed the events which shaped the reality we experience now.
A person who travels into the past to prevent, lets say, Elvis' birth to happen, causes exactly those things which he tried to stop to occur in the first place.

Putting in my 2 cents for H.G. Wells. Among his many predictions were biological warfare, genetic engineering, World War II, submarine-launched missiles, and, well...time travel. ;)

And text speak.

Putting in my 2 cents for H.G. Wells. Among his many predictions were biological warfare, genetic engineering, World War II, submarine-launched missiles, and, well...time travel. ;)
Yet he also failed to predict the invention of the radio and related technologies such as radar. Even a culture as advanced as the Martians didn't have them.

This brings up a philosophical question, though.

If someone in 10 BC said "there'd be chariots which fly in the sky", would he be credited with "predicting the aircraft"?

Statistically, anything given an infinite amount of time would invariably occur. (I.e. if t=infinity, P(any event)=1)

This brings up a philosophical question, though.

If someone in 10 BC said "there'd be chariots which fly in the sky", would he be credited with "predicting the aircraft"?

Statistically, anything given an infinite amount of time would invariably occur. (I.e. if t=infinity, P(any event)=1)
It's only a prediction if it's an extrapolation from existing technology. Otherwise it's a prophecy. If that guy in 10BC said: "Someday man will create a device which enables us to soar like the birds," that's a prediction, and he deserves credit.

Question: How does one explain how a jet turbine engine works to someone in 10BC? I would imagine that a time traveler would be rather constrained in how one would go about explaining it. On the understanding that the bulk of the technical words required for such a thing would not exist, you would be left with analogy and other literary techniques.

I am a time traveller.

Question: How does one explain how a jet turbine engine works to someone in 10BC? I would imagine that a time traveler would be rather constrained in how one would go about explaining it. On the understanding that the bulk of the technical words required for such a thing would not exist, you would be left with analogy and other literary techniques.
They already had a jet engine around that time. Heron ftw!

You can explain stuff without treating them like idiots. This is what always annoys me about how people raise their children. Just tell them the truth in a dumbed-down fashion, don't make crap up.

If Time Travel were possible, which historical people(s) would you say are Time Travellers, and why? It doesn't only have to be the cliched inventor-ahead of his time (a la Da Vinci), but it could be anyone at all. Someone who said things that were oddly prescient, or did things that turned out to be useful centuries later, or a horrible catastrophe that was suddenly ended through the sudden appearance of some random person, and so on. It could even be an entire country, who's culture seems oddly out of time. It's a very open ended thread.

Quite simple really: we wouldn't know. (As any Trekkie will know: time travel cannot interfere with the past - First Time Directive.)

In a more practical sense: anyone alive is a time traveller. (And the faster you move, the slower time passes. No really, it's a scientific fact.)

I firmly believe that John Titor was a time traveller from the year 2036! :smug:

Quite simple really: we wouldn't know. (As any Trekkie will know: time travel cannot interfere with the past - First Time Directive.)

In a more practical sense: anyone alive is a time traveller. (And the faster you move, the slower time passes. No really, it's a scientific fact.)

Right, and your head lives in another time dimension than your feet, caused by the different distance to the earth core. This is a scientific-fact, too. But to know that doesn't really help, now does it? ;)

I don't know what the other time-travellers are doing, but I use my nano-robotic zippo lighter to impress chicks.

Nathuram Godse, Sirhan Sirhan, the unknown Arab who killed Iulianus Apostata, Ptolemaios Keraunos, and François Ravaillac were all time-travelers.

No, he didn't.

They were assassins - Just as I speculated one might be tempted to if you could live through certain periods of history. But who are they working for, themselves ?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7894867&postcount=67
It is bizarre how so many attempts on Hitler failed - is it the old time paradox rule ?

Putting in my 2 cents for H.G. Wells. Among his many predictions were biological warfare, genetic engineering, World War II, submarine-launched missiles, and, well...time travel. ;)

Jules Verne predated him with airships, submarines, time travel, hollow earth theory, and the moon landing

They were assassins - Just as I speculated one might be tempted to if you could live through certain periods of history. But who are they working for, themselves ?
No. Clearly they were agents of those entities that, in alternate universes, were victims of God-Emperor Mohandas K. Gandhi, President-for-Life Robert F. Kennedy, Imperator and Shahanshah Iulianus, Basileus Autokrator Seleukos Nikator, and l'Empereur Henri IV.

Jules Verne predated him with airships, submarines, time travel, hollow earth theory, and the moon landing
Jules predated Wells with a moon landing?

The best Jules Verne book I've ever read is Magellania, btw. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread, just thought you'd like to know.

Jules predated Wells with a moon landing?

The best Jules Verne book I've ever read is Magellania, btw. That has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread, just thought you'd like to know.

Only in the literary sense of course. From the Earth to the Moon, 1865. A novel in which a massive cannon shot from Florida propels the astronauts to the moon (impossible), and one of the first sc-fi silent flickrs ever made. Jules also wrote some pretty cool stories about time travel and geological change. What was Magellania about ?
Wiki Quote:
In 1863, Verne wrote Paris in the 20th Century, a novel about a young man who lives in a world of glass skyscrapers, high-speed trains, gas-powered automobiles, calculators, and a worldwide communications network, yet cannot find happiness and comes to a tragic end.

Only in the literary sense of course. From the Earth to the Moon, 1865. A novel in which a massive cannon shot from Florida propels the astronauts to the moon (impossible), and one of the first sc-fi silent flickrs ever made. Jules also wrote some pretty cool stories about time travel and geological change. What was Magellania about ?
Wiki Quote:
In 1863, Verne wrote Paris in the 20th Century, a novel about a young man who lives in a world of glass skyscrapers, high-speed trains, gas-powered automobiles, calculators, and a worldwide communications network, yet cannot find happiness and comes to a tragic end.
:lol: And here I thought he planted the French flag up there, which is why the Americans faked it.

Ah yes, I remember that now. I've never read it, but I remember it inspired Wells to change the mode of transportation from Cavorite to a cannon in the film version of The First Men in the Moon. I've read Journey to the Centre of the Earth, but nothing about time travel from Verne. Read The Time Machine by Wells.

Magellania is very different from Verne's usual stories, at least the ones I've read. It was the last book he ever wrote, not being published until after his death, which might explain this. It's about a man, an anarchist, living in the vicinity of Patagonia and Tierra Del Fuego at the turn of the 19th century - the last place on Earth with no government. He comes across a shipwreck and has to put aside his political beliefs because his moral beliefs won't allow him to abandon them to die, since he knows how to survive there and they don't. He also ends up forming a government himself to do this, and hates himself for it. Magellania is the name chosen for the settlement. He does all this while attempting to maintain independence from Chile and Argentina, who have just signed a treaty dividing this area among themselves.

It's a fantastic book, and only around 180 pages. I'd recommend it to anyone. You have to be careful though, as Verne's son extensively re-wrote and published the original story, apparently not knowing his father had finished it but not published it before he died, and Michael's version, while not a bad read, is nowhere near as good as Jules', which is one of the best books I've ever read. Michael's is much larger than Jules', so you can tell the difference that way.

It's a fantastic book, and only around 180 pages. I'd recommend it to anyone. You have to be careful though, as Verne's son extensively re-wrote and published the original story, apparently not knowing his father had finished it but not published it before he died, and Michael's version, while not a bad read, is nowhere near as good as Jules', which is one of the best books I've ever read. Michael's is much larger than Jules', so you can tell the difference that way.

I shall be buying it in my next order of books, I've always enjoyed Vernes works.

I shall be buying it in my next order of books, I've always enjoyed Vernes works.
Try getting it from a university bookshop, since it's relatively newly published - Jules' version was only publicly released in 2002, IIRC - many literature courses have picked it up, and they tend to sell them cheaper than usual. Where I got mine.

Jules Verne was definitely a time-traveller then...

Is a time-traveler.

will be a time-traveler

They'd go back in time to stop the Nazis from starting WWII, but in a weird twist of fate, they'd actually become the Nazis and cause it themselves!

Or a holocaust survivor time travels back and tries to get Hitler to kill himself but instead Hitler develops a deep hatred for Jews from the experience.

I'm thinking that people discovered that things would be even worse if Hitler died, so they go back in time to stop the assassinations from working. Especially ones that involve merely shaking hands.

Or a holocaust survivor time travels back and tries to get Hitler to kill himself but instead Hitler develops a deep hatred for Jews from the experience.


Existing short story - forgot the author.

"Time travel and Hitlers are always a bad combination."
- Andrew Farago, The Chronicles of William Bazillion

I suspect Langston Hughes may have been a time traveler. Not because of his poetry, but because a guy in my karate class looks just like him. It's really freaking uncanny.

Barack Obama is a time traveller.

Nostradamus Is A Time Traveller!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nostradamus Is A Time Traveller!!!!!!!!!!!!
I discredited that one on the first page.

I never read all of the first page...Oh, and I agree that Nostradamus never really predicted anything.

I can easily imagine a time-traveler who merely observed, bought first-edition mint condition comic books, coins, books, etc. and then traveled back to his antiques shoppe where there and on Ebay, I ... er, he makes a good living.

Can I put in an order for some postage stamps ?

Einstein was one, he was a moronic child and just stole a bunch of paperwork from the future.

How about Martin Luther? The history of Europe sure took a 90 deg. turn as a result of his actions. As a time traveller, I don't know what his motives would have been. Perhaps he would have been trying to destroy the Roman Catholic Church and saw this as a time when they were vulnerable. Just a thought.

Of course I don't believe that the real Martin Luther was trying to destroy the Church, just fix some problems.

Someone should fix the church NOW. It's way too old-fashioned and boring...

Someone should fix the church NOW. It's way too old-fashioned and boring...
Oh boy, don't ever come too close to OT these days...:rolleyes:

Thomas Jefferson