City Lists:

Quendi:

Noldor: House of Fingolfin:
19 Cities

TIRION - Capital
MITHRIM
DRENGIST
HITHLUM
VINYAMAR
NEVRAST
GONDOLIN
ERED_LÓMIN
EITHEL_SIRION
ARVENIEN
MITHLOND
FORLOND
HARLOND
LINDON
IMLADRIS
LOSDOR
AMON_CELEB
ERYN_LAUREGLIN
EITHEL_IVRIN
Noldor: House of Fëanor:
19 Cities

FORMENOS - Capital
NARGOTHROND
BAR-ERIB
HAVEN_OF_SIRION
HIMRING
MARCH_OF_MAEDHROS
LOTHLANN
THARGELION
AGLON_PASS
MAGLOR'S_GAP
HIMLAD
HELEVORN
EAST_BELERIAND
OST-IN-EDHIL
EREGION
HELKLAD
MIRGROD
ESGALIEN
SEREGION
Teleri:
21 Cities

ALQUALONDË - Capital
AVALLÓNË
TOL_ERESSËA
ELDAMAR
ELENDË
ARAMAN
AVATHAR
KORTIRION
ALAMINÓRË
TARUITHORN
TAVROBEL
KOROMAS
ENEADUR
MAR_VANWA_TYALIÉVA
GRUIR
AFROS
ÍVERIN
ELGAREST
BRITHOMBAR
EDHELLOND
SUNDIRI
Sindar:
19 Cities

MENEGROTH - Capital
DORIATH
NELDORETH
EGLADOR
REGION
SIRION VALE
NAN ELMOTH
CARAS_GALADHON
DIMBAR
EITHEL_IVRIN
ANACH
ARD-GALEN
LOTHLÓRIEN
CERIN_AMROTH
ERYN_LASGALEN
CELEBRANT_FIELD
EAST_LÓRIEN
ITHILIEN
METHED-EN-GLAD
CAMETH_BRIN
Vanyar:
21 Cities:

VALIMAR - Capital
TANIQUETIL
SHINING_PLAIN
CALACIRYA
MANSIONS_OF_AULË
FIELDS_OF_YAVANNA
HALLS_OF_NIENNA
LÓRIEN
MANDOS
WOODS_OF_OROMË
TOL_ESTË
EZELLOHAR
FASKALEN
PELÓRI
ILMARIN
TARMENEL
HYARMENTIR
LAST_SHORE
HANSTOVANEN
KALORMË
MURMURAN

Good Men:

Númenor:
28 Cities

ARMENELOS - Capital
ALMAIDA
NINDAMOS
CALMINDON
ONDOSTO
ELDALONDË
RÓMENNA
ANDÚNIË
SORONTIL
NOIRINAN
NÍSIMALDAR
ELDANNA BAY
EMERIË
FOROSTAR
ANDUSTAR
HYARNUSTAR
HYARROSTAR
ORROSTAR
ARANDOR
VINYALONDË
CALMINDON
ANBALUKKHÔR
ZADAN-AN-ADÛN
ARHAZÚN-TARÎK
AZRULÔNI
ALKATHÔNDA
TANTÛRAK
SARÛL
Arnor:
24 Cities

ANNÚMINAS - Capital
FORNOST
THARBAD
LOND_DAER
AMON_SÚL
ENEROND
MAENTHIROS
ELOSTIRION
TYRN_GORTHAD
ARTHEDAIN
CARDOLAN
RHUDAUR
ARGOND
THAENDOR
BARAD_GIRITHLIN
TALSIR
ERYN_VORN
NENUIAL
EMYN_UIAL
EMYN_BERIAD
BREE
ARCHET
COOMBE
STADDLE
Gondor:
24 Cities

OSGILIATH - Capital
MINAS_ANOR
MINAS_ITHIL
PELARGIR
DOL AMROTH
UMBAR
LINHIR
IMLOTH_MELUI
CALEMBEL
ETHRING
PINNATH_GELIN
CORMALLEN
LEBENNIN
EMYN_ARNEN
PELENNOR
CAIR_ANDROS
ANFALAS
LOND_ERNIL
TOL_FALAS
GLANHIR
BARAD_HARN
HENNETH_ANNUN
HARONDOR
TARNOST
ERECH
Edain:
21 Cities

DOR-LÓMIN - Capital
ESTOLAD
LADROS
BRITHON
GLITHUI
RINGWIL
SNOWTHORN
RIVIL
ARROSIACH
AELUIN
ANDRAM
DIMROST
NAROG_VALE
RILDOLACH
NIRMOLIAN
ATHILIN
TOL_MORWEN
NÚMERIADOR
HILDORIEN
TOL_GALEN
BRETHIL
Neutral Men:

Rohirrim:
24 Cities

EDORAS
DUNHARROW
EASTFOLD
WESTFOLD
WOLD
UNDERHARROW
UPBOURNE
CALENHAD
MIN-RIMON
ERELAS
NARDOL
DERNDINGLE
DOL_BARAN
FOLDE
EAST_EMNET
WEST_EMNET
HELM'S_DEEP
FENMARCH
HALIFIRIEN
FIRIENFIELD
ENTWASH
GRIMSLADE
ONODRITH
DUNLOSTIR
Northmen:
22 Cities

DALE - Capital
FRAMSBERG
RIAVAD
CELDUIN_PLAIN
CARNEN
ÉOTHÉOD
ESGAROTH
EAST_RHOVANION
DORWINION
RHOSGOBEL
EAST_BIGHT
LANGWELL
GREYLIN
LIMLIGHT
CARROCK
LONG_LAKE
LOEG_NIGLORON
BEORN_HALL
OLD_FORD
NINDALF
SARN_GEBIR
PARTH_GALEN

Dunlendings:
20 Cities

DUN_LARACH - Capital
SÚDURI
ALCLUD
CARRAS
CAIRINN
CIRCINN
SMETRIU
FORTRIU
LUGIU
MAOLFINN
MAOLRUNAIDH
DAELMOTH
BARAD_COLGRIN
DRÚWAITH_IAUR
HARROWDALE
THRIHYNE
DWIMORBURG
METHEDRAS
STARKHORN
ANGREN_VALE

Isengard:
1 City, 10 Settlements

ISENGARD - Capital
ANGRENOST
NAN_CURUNIR
FORDS_OF_ISEN
CALENARDHON
METHEDRAS
WIZARD'S_VALE
PITS_OF_ISENGARD
TREEGARTH_OF_ORTHANC
RING_OF_ISENGARD
MOUNT_FANG

Evil Men:

Haradrim:
24 Cities

ÛREZÂYAN - Capital
HAR_SHULAM
KORLEA
NÎLÛLONDË
NARÎK-ZADAN
NYKKEA
HAZAJ_TOLLIN
KAS_TORATH
TELARÛD
BÛR_ESMER
ZIMRÉNZIL
SAZ_NEJJA
KHIBIL_EPHALAK
URUD-AN_KHIBIL
AYAL_KOYREN
ASAYT_HOR
DEZFUL
TARKHESH
BÛR_SAKAL
SORIYA
CARYALON
EMELCYN
MAIADH
VIERNAG
Easterling:
22 Cities

HILDÓRIEN - Capital
KYKURIAN_KYN
LURS_VORGANIS
LYGAW_KRAW
CHEY_SART
DALPYGIS
DHAHT
HEB_AARAAN
ORGOTHRAATH
RELMETHER
ÛSTER_KRYL
VAAG
ZYRAS
SIMOR
NHAAG
ARG-SÎMORÎG
KA'ISH
LÓCHAS_DRÛS
CUIVAC_WÔMAW
GÔAK
WÔMAWAS_DRÛS
RÔLFANDAS
Angmar:
20 Cities

CARN_DÛM - Capital
ANGSÛL
PHALURAN
MORKAI
SHEDÛN
CARGASH
LITASH
TROLLSHAWS
WRAKYABURG
ESTRAVI
MORVA_TARTH
GOBLIN_GATE
KORELA
VENETHI
CAMETH_BRIN
PINNATH_AEGRING
THUIN_BOID
FENNAS_DRÚNIN
ASPAR
MATHLOR

Shadow:

Mordor:
15 Cities

BARAD-DÛR - Capital
MINAS_MORGUL
DAGORLAD
NÚRNEN
EMYN_MUIL
LITHLAD
MORGAI
DURTHANG
TORECH_UNGOL
NARCHOST
CARCHOST
UDÛN
GOBLIN_TOWN
CARACH_ANGREN
CALMIRI
Angband:
14 Cities

UTUMNO - Capital
THANGORODRIM
TARN_AELUIN
ANGAMANDI
ANFAUGLITH
ANGAINOR
NAN_DUNGORTHEB
DOR-DAEDELOTH
TOL-IN_GAUROTH
ERED_ENGRIN
ERED_GORGOROTH
CIRITH_GORGOR
UDÛN
DAGOR_DAGORATH

Khazad:

Longbeard:
18 Cities

KHAZAD-DÛM - Capital
MOUNT_GUNDABAD
EREBOR
ERED_MITHRIM
IRON_HILLS
ERED_LUIN
AZUNALBIZAR
KHELED-ZÂRAM
BARAZINBAR
ZIRAK-ZIGAL
BUNDUSHATHÛR
AGLAROND
HITHAEGLIR
ERED_LITHUI
ERED_NIMRAIS
WITHERED_HEATH
BARL_SYRNAC
MOUNT_GRAM
Broadbeams & Firebeards:
19 Cities

NOGROD - Capital
BELEGOST
NULUKKIZDÎN
NAN-I-NAUGRIM
SARN_ATHRAD
ERED_LINDON
NIBIN-NOGRIM
TALATH_MUIL
LHÚN_VALLEY
MOUNT_DOLMED
PITKÄRANTA
TUMNOGOTH_IAUR
EGENYAR
LANTHIR_LAMATH
BARNAS
ANGOTH
MOUNT_RERIR
AMONLANC
URD

Nice, I was just thinking we needed to discuss this.

Not sure about some of the Vanyar cities, many of them either fit better to a nonexistant Valar civ or are the home of a specific Vala and not a city in the first place. Still, if there's nothing better...
And most of the Dunlending names are from cities far north of Dunland itself, the names you have are more around the Shire area.

The rest of it is good.

Major Update Completed. More to come hopefully soon.

Yes. I know about the towns around the Shire. I couldn't find any Dunland town names at the moment, so I used those as the men of that area are decendants of Dunlendings that migrated North long ago.

I really started running low on names for the Elves. That is why I started using place name for a few. They sounded good, so I put them in for now. Everything is of course debateable. I am not possitive on my division of the different Elven cities.

Hopefully this is a good start.

O.K. I did a major update for:

Dwarves (Both)
Easterlings
Haradrim
Northmen

This is it for tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to do more research tomorrow. Post anything if you have ideas, suggestions or corrections please.

I think I might start having to use Place/Location Names and Mountain Names, etc. Let me know if that is all right.

There is a thread somewhere in this forum with a lot of city names for a previous attempt on the mod, and I found a civilizationsinfo.xml files containing city-lists as well. Will see what I can dig up.

Alrightythen!

I found all the old lists I could on this Forum and compiled them into one huge list. I will start modifying the lists above after I get home from my workshop this morning. I should be able to get started around 1:00pm EST or so. Almost all of the lists were already put together by Pariah I believe, so we should make sure to also thanks him in the credits.

So, I will get back to work on this as soon as I can and see what you think agian. I will mention that the others did some of what I did it looks like and started using place names, also they used the same City name, but in the Different languages of the different times to stretch out the lists somewhat.

See you again this afternoon.

I extracted the city names from the files I found, maybe you can use them. Some of them were also in the thread you found, but I think some are only in the xml-file. As far as I understand, most of the dwarven city names were completely made up and a number of others were the same name in multiple languages, so use with care. At least there are enough cities on the list, as they had more different civs than we do atm.

Note 1: It's not a problem if a city is on more than one list. Civ automatically skips to the next city if the other name is allready taken. So the to shadow civs can have largely overlapping city names for the biggest part.

Note 2: Isengard will need names for settlements as well

Note 3: How many cities do we aim for per civ? I think somewhere in the range of 15-20 would be nice, if that's doable.

VANYAR

TANIQUETIL
VALIMAR
SHINING_PLAIN
CALACIRYA
AULË_MANSIONS
YAVANNA_FIELDS
NIENNA_HALLS
LÓRIEN
MANDOS
OROMË_WOODS
TOL_ESTË
EZELLOHAR
FASKALEN
PELÓRI
ILMARIN
TARMENEL
HYARMENTIR
LAST_SHORE


HOUSE OF FËANOR

FORMENOS
HIMRING
MARCH_OF_MAEDHROS
LOTHLANN
THARGELION
AGLON_PASS
MAGLOR'S_GAP
HIMLAD
HELEVORN
EAST_BELERIAND
OST-IN-EDHIL
EREGION
HELKLAD
MIRGROD
ESGALIEN
SEREGION


HOUSE OF FINGOLFIN

MITHRIM
DRENGIST
HITHLUM
VINYAMAR
NEVRAST
GONDOLIN
ERED_LÓMIN
EITHEL_SIRION
ARVENIEN
MITHLOND
FORLOND
HARLOND
LINDON
IMLADRIS
LOSDOR
AMON_CELEB
ERYN_LAUREGLIN


HOUSE OF FINARFIN

TIRION
NARGOTHROND
MINAS_TIRITH
DORTHINION
ERED WETHRIN
ARD-GALEN
TALATH_DIRNEN
BARAD_NIMRAS
TAR-EN-FAUROTH
AMON_RUDH
WEST_BELERIAND
CARAS_GALADHON
LAURELINDÓRENAN
NIMPLOND
GAERWING
SIROST
DUNAR


TELERI

ALQUALONDË
AVALLÓNË
TOL_ERESSËA
ELDAMAR
ELENDË
ARAMAN
AVATHAR
KORTIRION
ALAMINÓRË
TARUITHORN
TAVROBEL
KOROMAS
ENEADUR
MAR_VANWA_TYALIÉVA
GRUIR
AFROS
ÍVERIN


SINDAR

MENEGROTH
DORIATH
NELDORETH
EGLADOR
REGION
SIRION VALE
NAN ELMOTH
DIMBAR
EITHEL_IVRIN
ANACH
ARD-GALEN
LOTHLÓRIEN
CERIN_AMROTH
ERYN_LASGALEN
CELEBRANT FIELD
EAST_LÓRIEN
ITHILIEN


FALATHRIM

BRITHOMBAR
EGLARAST
TOL_BALAR
NIMBRETHIL
NENNING
CELOS
LINAEWEN
NAN-TATHREN
FORLINDON
HARLINDON
TOL_FUIN
MINAS_HYARRÓMENAR
CARAS_CELAIRNEN
CERIN_BALGRIST
GALATHIVEL
MISTALONDË
NADIOR
TOL_UIALGAER


NANDOR

ANDUIN VALES
BELFALAS
OSSIRIAND
ASCAR
THALOS
LEGOLIN
BRILTHOR
DUILWENT
ADURANT
TALATH_RHUNEN
TOL_GALEN
GELION_VALE
LITTLE_GELION
AMON EREB
DOMETRIEH
EN_EGLADHIL


AVARI

CUIVIÉNEN
HELCARTH
DURSULINOR
TAALIRAAN
THÛLONAR
IMALDAWATH
CÍMONÍEMOR
THARSITAUR
LUINDOR
AMIRAKH
KUORIND
AUZ_AZUNAN
HAU_NYSRIN
ELORNA
HELCAR_SAEL
TAURONDE
KORONANDË
CALENTAUR
MAENA


BËORIAN

ESTOLAD
LADROS
BRITHON
GLITHUI
RINGWIL
SNOWTHORN
RIVIL
ARROSIACH
AELUIN
ANDRAM
DIMROST
NAROG_VALE
RILDOLACH
NIRMOLIAN
ATHILIN
TOL_MORWEN
NÚMERIADOR


HADORIAN

DOR-LÓMIN
CIRITH_NINIATH
EITHEL_SIRION
SERECH_FEN
GALENROS
CIRITH_CELEGORM
ENDEMOS
CILUMË
CELEBROS
NEN_LALAITH
AMON_DARTHIR
HAUDH-EN-NIRNAETH
CABED-EN-ARAS
BAURUIN
ALLIMIR
CITHRENOR
ANNON_BARAN
ANNITHIR
BREGNAS


HALETHRIM

BRETHIL
EPHEL_BRANDIR
TEIGLIN_VALE
AMON_OBEL
BRITHIACH
AELIN-UIAL
IANT_IAUR
MALDUIN
AMON_ETHIR
HAUDH-EN-ELLETH
NEN_GIRITH
NELVORIN
ANGLOR
GWAELIN
BREE
ARCHET
COOMBE
STADDLE


NÚMENOR

ARMENELOS
ELDALONDË
RÓMENNA
ANDÚNIË
SORONTIL
NINDAMOS
NOIRINAN
NÍSIMALDAR
ELDANNA BAY
EMERIË
FOROSTAR
ANDUSTAR
HYARNUSTAR
HYARROSTAR
ORROSTAR
ARANDOR
VINYALONDË
CALMINDON
ANBALUKKHÔR
ZADAN-AN-ADÛN
ARHAZÚN-TARÎK
AZRULÔNI
ALKATHÔNDA
TANTÛRAK
SARÛL


ARNOR

ANNÚMINAS
FORNOST
THARBAD
LOND DAER
AMON SÚL
ENEROND
MAENTHIROS
ELOSTIRION
TYRN_GORTHAD
ARTHEDAIN
CARDOLAN
RHUDAUR
ARGOND
THAENDOR
BARAD_GIRITHLIN
TALSIR
ERYN_VORN
NENUIAL
EMYN_UIAL
EMYN_BERIAD


GONDOR

OSGILIATH
MINAS_ANOR
MINAS_ITHIL
PELARGIR
DOL AMROTH
ORTHANC
UMBAR
LINHIR
IMLOTH_MELUI
CALEMBEL
ETHRING
PINNATH_GELIN
CORMALLEN
LEBENNIN
EMYN_ARNEN
PELENNOR
CAIR_ANDROS
ANFALAS
LOND_ERNIL
TOL_FALAS
GLANHIR
BARAD_HARN
HARONDOR


NORTHMEN

CELDUIN_PLAIN
CARNEN
ÉOTHÉOD
ESGAROTH
DALE
EAST_RHOVANION
DORWINION
RHOSGOBEL
EAST_BIGHT
LANGWELL
GREYLIN
LIMLIGHT
CARROCK
LONG_LAKE
LOEG_NIGLORON
BEORN_HALL
OLD_FORD
NINDALF
SARN_GEBIR
PARTH_GALEN


ROHAN

EDORAS
HORNBURG
DUNHARROW
EASTFOLD
WESTFOLD
WOLD
UNDERHARROW
UPBOURNE
CALENHAD
MIN-RIMON
ERELAS
NARDOL
DERNDINGLE
DOL_BARAN
FOLDE
EAST_EMNET
WEST_EMNET
HELM'S_DEEP
FENMARCH
HALIFIRIEN
FIRIENFIELD
ENTWASH


DUNLAND

ISENGARD
DUN_LARACH
SÚDURI
ALCLUD
CARRAS
CAIRINN
CIRCINN
SMETRIU
FORTRIU
LUGIU
MAOLFINN
MAOLRUNAIDH
DAELMOTH
BARAD_COLGRIN
DRÚWAITH_IAUR
HARROWDALE
THRIHYNE
DWIMORBURG
METHEDRAS
STARKHORN
ANGREN_VALE


HARADRIM

ÛREZÂYAN
HAR_SHULAM
KORLEA
NÎLÛLONDË
NARÎK-ZADAN
NYKKEA
HAZAJ_TOLLIN
KAS_TORATH
TELARÛD
BÛR_ESMER
ZIMRÉNZIL
SAZ_NEJJA
KHIBIL_EPHALAK
URUD-AN_KHIBIL
AYAL_KOYREN
ASAYT_HOR
DEZFUL
TARKHESH
BÛR_SAKAL
SORIYA
CARYALON
EMELCYN
MAIADH
VIERNAG


VARIAG

STURLURTSA_KHAND
KYZILKUM
AMMU_KHAND
LAORKI
OVATHRAC
KORL_CHELKAR
AMRÛN
KORONDAJ
FEAB
GIZAR
KAS_AWCHEL
KRUK_MAHUR
GOBEL_ANCALIMON
MARASH
LAYOTANI
KRUK_AZBANNA
TEREZE
PELEPELPLÛ
CHAJAPÛN
LODENÚLY


EASTERLING

HILDÓRIEN
KYKURIAN_KYN
LURS_VORGANIS
LYGAW_KRAW
CHEY_SART
DALPYGIS
DHAHT
HEB_AARAAN
ORGOTHRAATH
RELMETHER
ÛSTER_KRYL
VAAG
ZYRAS
SIMOR
NHAAG
ARG-SÎMORÎG
KA'ISH
LÓCHAS_DRÛS
CUIVAC_WÔMAW
GÔAK
WÔMAWAS_DRÛS
RÔLFANDAS


LONGBEARD_DWARF

KHAZAD-DÛM
GUNDABAD
EREBOR
ERED_MITHRIM
IRON_HILLS
ERED_LUIN
AZUNALBIZAR
KHELED-ZÂRAM
BARAZINBAR
ZIRAK-ZIGAL
BUNDUSHATHÛR
AGLAROND
HITHAEGLIR
ERED_LITHUI
ERED_NIMRAIS
WITHERED_HEATH
BARL_SYRNAC


FIREBEARD_DWARF

NOGROD
BELEGOST
NULUKKIZDÎN
NAN-I-NAUGRIM
SARN_ATHRAD
ERED_LINDON
NIBIN-NOGRIM
TALATH_MUIL
LHÚN_VALLEY
RERIR
DOLMED
PITKÄRANTA
TUMNOGOTH_IAUR
EGENYAR
LANTHIR_LAMATH
BARNAS
ANGOTH


BLACKLOCK_DWARF

DRÚHAR-SHATHÛR
MURTHÛNIN
UAX
ÚRCHELDOR
UUL
ANGCLAX
FUSTIR-GOST
OROCARNI
LYNAHAR
ÔM
UKAL_SÊJ
AZJAN
ANGIKYAK
AIGVALG
JENDIAR
RÚBOR
ISKAHÚ
BUIRSKADEKAR


IRONFIST_DWARF

RUURIIK
SHAY
IRIAGI
DURVÎD/City>
GAATHGYKARKAN
ZURGHÔR
SAKAL-AN-KHÂR
VULM_SHRYAC
E-SORUL_SÂRE
HALTHOR
ERED_LARAMOR
ZIMRATHÂNI
DREL
MAG
PEL
AIKYEN
WAARWUGAN
MAAKEN
HAEN
URTLAGGA


THE_SHADOW

UTUMNO
ANGBAND
TOL-IN_GAUROTH
ERED_GORGOROTH
ERED_ENGRIN
NAN_DUNGORTHEB
DOR-DAEDELOTH
CIRITH_UNGOL
THANGORODRIM
BARAD-DÛR
DOL_GULDÛR
MINAS_MORGUL
DAGORLAD
NÚRNEN
EMYN_MUIL
CIRITH_GORGOR
LITHLAD
MORGAI
DURTHANG
TORECH_UNGOL
NARCHOST
CARCHOST
UDÛN
MORIA


ANGMAR

CARN_DÛM
ANGSÛL
PHALURAN
MORKAI
SHEDÛN
CARGASH
LITASH
TROLLSHAWS
WRAKYABURG
ESTRAVI
MORVA_TARTH
GOBLIN_GATE
KORELA
VENETHI
CAMETH_BRIN
PINNATH_AEGRING
THUIN_BOID
FENNAS_DRÚNIN
ASPAR
MATHLOR


NATURE

FANGORN
OLD_FOREST
GREENWOOD
NAN-TASARION
OROD-NA-THÔN
TAUR-NA-NELDOR
OSSIR_WOODS
DRÚADAN
CHETWOOD
TAURFALAS
AMBARÓNA
AERERYN
ANARIKÊ
AEGAN
ZANJATAK
BALKULÔNI
DYR
FELAYJA
FAELAAN
GAN

15-20 per list would be nice. I'll see what I can take from our lists and add them in.

We'll need at least 10 per civ.

Like I said, make Isengard and Dunland one Civilization, and you have less names to find

We had used many region/place names as city names, back in the day.

I have updated everything except for Isengard.

If I divide out the cities for Dunlendings and Isengard, I'll only have about 10 or 11 each. Perhaps we should amalgamate those two Civs. I think we should put the Dunlending under control of Isengard. Otherwise, what kind of names are we going to give the cities for Isengard? This one has me stumped.

EDIT: Thomas beat me to it.

EDIT, EDIT: I have joined many of the names I had with both lists (the one Sengir provided & the one by Pariah).

EDIT, EDIT, EDIT: If this is decided (Drop Denlendings that is) then all we need to do is confirm the list of Cities. If you like them, post it and I can move it to the finalized list, and we can move on to the next item.

* Personal Note: This is a lot harder and more fun than I thought it would be. I don't even mind the physical pain that comes from it because I am enjoying myself so much! :)

I say do it.

Do it.

Comments:
Moria: is that name only associated with evil? If not I wouldn't put it in the Mordor list
Dol Goldur & Cirith Ungol > they might be wonders as well. Not sure though. I wouldn't keep them as both wonder and city.
Angband is civ & city > don't like that too much

Do it.

Comments:
Moria: is that name only associated with evil? If not I wouldn't put it in the Mordor list
Dol Goldur & Cirith Ungol > they might be wonders as well. Not sure though. I wouldn't keep them as both wonder and city.
Angband is civ & city > don't like that too much


I added it because the land is named after the fortress. I can removed it. I left Moria because of it being in control of Mordor for quite some time. I will remove it though. I can also remove Dol Goldur and Cirith Ungol, that is ok.

I am also amalgamating Dunlunding Civ with Isengard and making Isengard the Capital.

Finally, if this is agreeable by all, we can call the City List Finalized unless you want me to add more Cities to some of the civs.

Isengard/Dunlending is fine, as long as it's called Isengard.

The name Moria was associated with evil (it means 'black pit' in Sindarin), but I'm not sure if it was effectively under Mordor's control or just a bunch of random goblins. I know Cirith Ungol and I think Dol Guldur were fortresses built by Gondor or somebody else good that Sauron eventually took over.

I'm fine with the city list as is with respect to the above, as long as all díâcrïtìcs are accounted for.

We'll let you do a diacritics check before we put them in files T_F ;)

I like the city list in general. Some comments:

Isengard & Orthanc are the same thing basically. I would remove it for Gondor
Minas Anor and Minas Tirith are also the same city. I wouldn't put them both on the list, especially not so close togheter


Maybe this is just me, but didn't we fix the civilization list in the other thread and decided that Isengard was its own civ with only one city? :confused: I liked that idea very much and if we go another way, I would like to discuss it.

Aparently Sengir hates that idea. (Maybe hate is too strong a word). I am fine with it as 1 city, just give it higher food and hammer bonuses. I have an idea for that.

Sengir, please indicate why you think Isengard needs to be more than one settlement without conquring. It might make things easier to discuss. I'll modify again, but we are seriously starting to lose numbers in a few of the city lists.

The list is now modified with the removal of Minas Tirith & Orthanc from Gondor. I removed Minas Tirith because it is also in one of the Elven Lists. Minas Anor is better for the "Arda" Mod. We can use Minas Tirith in scenarios.

One thing we could do is have Isengard as an automatic Vassal of Mordor unless chosen as a Player Civ, or as mentioned above, i have an idea to offset the 1 City disadvantage.

I should have been more clear.

I don't think Isengard needs more cities, but more names for settlements (it will be based on the Kuriotates who can build very few cities, and can build settlements for getting more land in culture reach and getting resource that way. These settlements still need names, though they can be minor names and can be taken from other lists as well (that is, they don't signify great cities so I don't really care what they are called).

I do hate ;) the idea of having Isengard as an automatic Vassal of Mordor. I'm in favor of the 1 City Isengard, but would allow more settlements (as the Kuriotates idea in FFH). If we are not going for that, more than one city on the list is not necessary, Isengard will be a real OCC to play (I'd prefer a modified Kuriotates-variant)

Hope this clears it up.

Oke, I think we're on one line here, because I also think we should use the Kuriates idea for isengard but then with one city and more settlements (settlements have names also or not? haven't played with them yet).

One other thing I came across regarding allignment: in original FFH2 allignment is set for each civ and only religions will influence this allignment. But it does so very coarse grained: Order brings civ always to good, Ashen Veil any civ to evil, Octopus Overlords any good to neutral, etc. This will not give us the option of gradually making civs good or evil or letting that depend on the player. There is however a mod which provides a mechanism to shift allignment based on a scale from -512 to +512 and allows other things to influence it as well: event reactions, civics, etc. One drawback is that the mod is not for the latest version of FFH2 and that it requires a recompile of the DLL (since it has changed C++ files). The source is however there. Fall Further has the latest version of this broader allignment mod but I don't want to switch to FF as a base mod for us. Maybe we can cut it out of there?

Yes, the Kuriotates settlements have names, that's were the original confusion started.

The alignment should indeed be scaled, -512 to 512 sounds just about right :D. Can you give me a link to the mod? It might not be too hard to implement it or make it compatible with the latest version of FFH2.

Agreed on scaled alignment. (But why 512 and not a nice number like 500?)

For Isengard/Dunlendings, Isengard for the city and then the settlements can have Dunlending names. (Don't make them an OCC, and I they can't be an auto-vassal of the Shadow since we determined elsewhere their starting alignment was Neutral, just leaning towards Evil.)

512 is a very nicer number than 500, because it's a power of 2. Sometimes in programming (thought I don't know in Civ4 moding) it makes a lot of difference...

For alignment, see what I posted in the Religion thread.

I don't understand this settlement thing I guess. I don't play the FF2 Mod. Only tried it once and really wasn't all that impressed by it (as in fun - the concept is very impressive and the amount of work that went into it). Perhaps someone could explain the settlement concept to me so I can help out with it. I'll put in the Dunlendings again and make Isengard its own again.

Sorry about that. I could have been much clearer myself.

I'm not sure exactly how it works (since I never play FFH as the Kuriotates), but I think it's where they're limited to a few cities, but they can have settlements so they can go out and get resources. Settlements are like mini-cities.

Someone else will have to come up with the names for those then. Post them here and I'll add them to the list.

I guess by the Vote, everyone want to have Isengard with many city names and use said settlement idea, so we will go with that.

I think we should have at least 10 names for the Isengard list if possible.

Also, it seems some are now haveing a problem with the Civ list. We need to really make a final decision on this.

Do we have one Super Shadow Civ (i.e. Shadow: no Mordor, no Angband, no Angmar)

Suggested City list if this is chosen:
UTUMNO - Capital
CARN_DÛM
GOBLIN_GATE
MINAS_MORGUL
DURTHANG
TORECH_UNGOL
NARCHOST
CARCHOST
UDÛN
GOBLIN_TOWN
CARACH_ANGREN
CALMIRI
THANGORODRIM
NAN_DUNGORTHEB
DOR-DAEDELOTH
TOL-IN_GAUROTH
ERED_ENGRIN
ERED_GORGOROTH
CIRITH_GORGOR
ANGSÛL
PHALURAN
MORKAI
SHEDÛN
CARGASH
LITASHor

Have the multiple versions we have now.

If we go with a single Shadow civ, there are several names that need to be higher or lower on that list (like why is Carn Dûm second?) and it's missing both Barad-dûr and Dol Guldur.

Barad-Dur and Dol Guldur were taken out because they are also Wonders. SOme didn't think that the names of Wonders should also be used for Cities.

The names are in no particular order. The only important one on the lists is the Capital city. During the Modding process we can arrange the names in a more appropriate manner. (or before if people prefer. I was just concerned with getting the names up and going than putting them in any particular order).

The link to the allignment mod is here. I think this should be fairly easy to merge. It adds additional xml tags to several xml files. The biggest task is then to add these tags in every xml file and for every entry in the xml file (e.a. all civs, all civics, etc.). It will really take some work but can also help us make the shadow and alignment concept we want so much better.

As for the religion thingie, this allignment can be used to move civs closer to the valar/good orr closer to the shadow/evil. Having a particular religion moves you closer to a particular allignment but is not the only measurement (see discussion in religion thread). So adopting light of the valar moves a civ towards good a certain amount of points but depending on the starting points (neutral evil will something like -100 while neutral good might be 100 and some which are quicker to evil can be -150 or even more). This gives us room to play.

One thing about the one shadow proposal: we had a lenghty discussion about that in another thread (the civs one) and I thought we said we were going to have to shadow civs: mordor and angband because they are sufficiently different. Angmar would then be an "evil men" civ.

Indeed. But there seem to be a few detractors of that line of thought. I believe taht Elda King is the most Vocal about it. See the last post in the Civs thread. He is very much against it.

This is one of the reasons we need to have someone with Final Say. It is something I brought up in the Discussion Status Thread. We REALLY need to have that. We seem to be trying to ride of in 7 different directions at once on only one horse at times. Having 1 person with final say after all the discussions is needed. (In my opinion of course). Check out my post there and the others after it. Post your own thoughts on this threre.

Request:

I really don't know what to do with the city list for Isengard.

Please feel free to post suggestions, even if it is only 1 name. Each name added helps grow the list afterall! I will try to figure something out as well.

O.K. I actually came up with some ideas.

now, I know a lot of these are just renames in different languages, but I think that kind of works in this particular situation. Let me know what you think.

City List for Isengard:

10 Cities

ISENGARD - Capital
ANGRENOST
NAN_CURUNIR
FORDS_OF_ISEN
CALENARDHON
METHEDRAS
WIZARD'S_VALE
PITS_OF_ISENGARD
TREEGARTH_OF_ORTHANC
RING_OF_ISENGARD

Honestly, I have no problem with anything you can get for Isengard, since the Dunlendings really didn't have cities there's not much material.

I think the list works particularly well for the settlements list.

I'll add the list to Isengard for now then.

I think for Isengard this is a good list, especially if we go with the one city civ.

T_F and I have been updating the City Lists with properly accented names (EDIT: T_F has been providing the info & I have been copying/pasting it :D). The topic came up however for the naming we should use for:

VALIMAR / VALMAR

Apparently VALMAR is more commonly used, but I believe that VALIMAR is the original name that goes along with VALINOR.

T_F has said he will do some research to get more info. We thought it should be opened for discussion, so if anyone has an opinion on it, now is the time to SCREAM! :lol:

All I can find is that Valmar is more commonly used than Valimar, other than that I can't find a difference. Apparently it's a compound of Vala + mar (which makes me think Valimar is better), but all that I can find about compound words in Quenya implies it should be Valamar (which it never is), so it's open for debate.

I like Valimar better, but I'm known as a fan of more obscure names ;)

Valmar is indeed the name most commonly used.

Anyone else with an opinion on this?

Also, leaving proper accents and the spelling of VALMAR/VALIMAR aside, are we not calling the City list finalized*?

* = Finalized except if Elda King still chooses to have final say and only want 1 Shadow Civ that is, of course.

Finalized for me.

I call it finalized.

So, we still need a decision on:

VALMAR/VALIMAR

&

Finalized (unless/until we modify the Shadow Civs) - a few still have yet to give an opinion on this.

Finalized for me. I would say Valimar for me, it sounds cooler :).

No preference on Valmar/Valimar, but I suggest Valmar since most sources call that the more common name. (Don't count that as a vote against it though.)

I like Valimar better, but I'm known as a fan of more obscure names ;)

Valmar is indeed the name most commonly used.
I still stand by this vote.

Looks like VALIMAR it is then!

So now, we are just waiting on the final decision regarding Civs. Once that is made we can call this list finalized.

If we go the route of 1 Shadow Civ. I will still keep the info for scenario purposes. I also have a few ideas on how to word the Civ if we need to make a change.