Well, our OCC is done and it's time to look to an Ancient Civs game. This is going to be a pared-down version of the Earth 34 map, with Carthage, Greece, Rome, Egypt, Persia, Babylon, China, India, Korea, Japan, Maya (the only really "ancient" American Civ, maybe moved to South America), Native Americans (kind of a catch-all term, just so that North America isn't empty), Sumeria, and the Celtics in Ireland. This should have a couple of neat new interactions, as Civs which were originally squeezed out by neighbors now have room to grow.

So, the question is, who shall I be? I'm getting a lot of pressure to move to Immortal, so I'm thinking that Persia would be fitting, but I figured I'd put it to a vote. Let me know what you think!

Well I voted Persia, but that's only if your gonna go Immortal ;)

On Emperor sumeria.

Alex would be nice, big rush east with the UU like in the ancient times.

Are you planning on smacking down the Maya in the middle of SA? The great settler/worker pump in the south of SA, west of the passage though the andes, might give them a good chance of actually settling the amazon.

Persia. Just for the Xerxes jokes.

India. Come on, think about all the expansion: Indochina, India proper, Pakistan, Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand..

http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys3/laiesken1.gif Immortals for the win!

Why Persia? It's already been done by Snaaty (thats what I think his name was).

I think Carthage will be much more interesting, potential to expand into Europe and Asia.

I vote india or Ottomans and do an Espionage Economy!

ottomans arent in the running. ancient (pre 1AD iirc) civs only.

in an on topic note, I vote India.

Have a run-off vote with the top 3.

Babylon! take over the the arabian penensula and march down the nile river with bowmen! :devil: :devil: :devil:

Well, some civs would be a joke: Rome, Egypt, and Persia would be very easy games, probably China as well. I voted India, which I think would be a better challenge, but the Celts would also be an interesting challenge, especially with the English and French out of the game. And Boudica is a superb warmonger, well up to challenging Rome (especially if you stick with the E34 default of Augustus, rather than warmonger Julius).

I'd like to see the Native Americans done.

Yeah, Native America sounds awesome. "Cause you haven't been in the new world for a long time."

I opted for Greece. I think people have been wanting to see a Greek KOTW for quite a while now. However, my second choice would definitely Native America, New world would be fin to see, especially with no Monty to get in your way.

I voted for Rome by mistake, but I really did want the Greeks. So, take off 1 vote from Romans and put them on for Greeks. :) I remember you talking in KoTW 2 about playing as the Greeks so now's your chance.

Greeks. Persia or India would be ridiculously easy, and not that fun to watch. Greece on the other hand could be pretty damn awesome.

EDIT: And who wants to watch another islated start? Natives will play like Monty without America to beat up.

Voted for persia too. Immortals will make immortal feel more like monarch probabely though... :lol:

Korea ... go play sandwich with China and Japan :P

As of no, it's obvious Greece won't win. Can I change my vote to Persia?

Carthage is certainly interesting...and a challenge, although I think better now than on an Earth 34 Civ map where they're boxed in with no resources. You can choose to expand into Spain, France, Morocco, Mali, etc.

Also, Ethiopia was around before 1 A.D. (kingdoms of Axum and Kush).

Voted for persia too. Immortals will make immortal feel more like monarch probabely though... :lol:

Why not up it to deity? :goodjob:

Native america or korea get my vote

Anytime I move up a difficulty I play darius. I'm not sure if the persian is darius or cyrus but if it is darius I would recommend it for immortal to help with the learning process. So that is who I voted for.

I voted for Sumeria, but I'd take Babylon as well.

Persians are always fun, but I think they'd be fun to play as well in a normal game (or perhaps another 34 civs version, see how many people you can wipe out with immortals). I think for an "ancient civs" game, you have to start in the "cradle of civilization" (although I guess Persia could count in that as well).

Definitely stay away from Europe, since I think it'd be fun to see the Celts, Romans, and Greeks fight over Europe/Russia.

If this is going to be a special ancient civs map, why would we want to be the native americans with the entire north american continent to ourselves? Sounds like a pretty boring waste of the theme.

Wow, it will be interesting to see how civs develop around the vacuum of powerful, unoccupied land in Northern Europe. My bet is on Rome to become a beast, though Greece has a decent shot, too. Persia could take all of Siberia and morph into Russia halfway through the game.

I voted Native Americans just to make it even.

Darius and Bull are tied. So, Neal, don't change your avatar yet!

But why do we want "KotW #1 except this time we don't have to kill Roosevelt" so badly? :crazyeye:

If this is going to be a special ancient civs map, why would we want to be the native americans with the entire north american continent to ourselves? Sounds like a pretty boring waste of the theme.

I have to agree with this. Unless the point is to see how ol' Eurasia turns out without Neal ... 'interfering' for the first portion of the game. Either way, a game featuring Sitting Bull would be a LHC for quite some time, haven't we already done this with Huayna Capac?

yes Neal has. He did it with Monty too.

I voted for carthage, but I'll follow whatever Neal decides. These have become my favorite of all the ongoing series. Keep up the good work, Neal.

Carthage! Conquer Europe with elephants!

Anytime I move up a difficulty I play darius. I'm not sure if the persian is darius or cyrus but if it is darius I would recommend it for immortal to help with the learning process. So that is who I voted for.

Earth 34 = Darius
Earth 18 = Cyrus

I think Neal is playing with Earth 34 for KotW 11 so that would imply Darius and Deity difficulty.

I voted Carthage as well. Having to deal with Rome During the Praetorian Era would be cool.

What I think will be most interesting about this round is how the areas Neal does not start near evolves. For that reason i say Dont Play perisa, rome, or Greece; I really want see how the AI can handle these civs starts.

Also will AI not start with archery due to the map even though the difficulty is high? Playing Carthage and destoying Eygpt very early could be too easy, like old Europe Warrior Rampage Style.

Darius has won!(by one vote when I post this). As I see, Neal had already changed his avatar before I submitted the winning vote (tsk tsk). Oh well, let's get this game started as soon as possible!

Carthage. I want to see Hannibal vs Rome!

Well, as I'd said, I was leaning towards Darius, anyway. I just wanted to make sure that public opinion wasn't massively against me.

I don't really consider Sitting Bull a real option, here- First off, he's just kind of a placeholder so that North America isn't a Barbarian wasteland. The "Native Americans" as we know them came into play significantly past the 1 A.D. demarcation. Secondly, as everyone else said, building up the Americas and waiting for Caravels to show up is kind of dull, and has been done before. Sitting Bull will be a stronger option in a Medieval/Renaissance or Industrial/Modern game, where he'll either have to deal with Monty or America, respectively. I do find his popularity interesting, though. To the point that I'll probably just declare him the choice for KotW #12.

I vote don't even put Sitting Bull in there, and LET it be a barbarian wasteland. Ripe for Colonization! Toss Pacal where he usually starts, but either block him off or put him at the tip of the Yucatan.. let him mope around Mesoamerica for a while.

Sitting Bull in N. America will just ruin the 'New World' idea, since he'll probably be ~middle ages by the time you guys get caravels.. and thats just not right now is it? I'd think it'd be much cooler if it was a barbarian paradise.. heck thats essentially what the European Settlers thought of them anyways.

I'm fine with Persia.. though I did vote India. Also Neal, are you going to put the Celts in Ireland or Southern France?

Also Neal, are you going to put the Celts in Ireland or Southern France?

In the poll it says "Ireland (Celts)

Ah yea, true, I missed that.









Go Irish CPU player! Woo!

I say go for the Celts. It'd be interesting being stuck on a reasonably useless island for a while. Also, are you putting the mountain back in Panama? I think this would be a good way of stopping one of the two American civs from getting out of control.

You should add Vikings or Germany in to represent the 'barbarian' empires in europe so that rome can have something to conquer... And get conquered by.

Having played earth maps on immortal for some time now, I just wanted to mention that earth34 is by far easier than earth 18. With more trading partners you can more easily overcome the enemies' science bonus. Also, with less space to settle many tough opponents lose their momentum and never come to real power. If you play Europe you can early (anitque to middle ages) rush the continent, therefore beeing the only one with a real, useful landmass. The only ones with space (of good tiles) are the persians, the russians some americans and he-who-conquers-the-pacific. After IW Africa, South America and Pacifica provide extra space for interested, neighbouring Civs.
So I say: Play a tough one on immortal Earth34 (Americas or Pacific) or an easy one on Earth18 (Europe). Remember: Beeing in a cramped space at start is not an Obstacle - it's a bonus! Early rushes are incredibly quick and let you begin the game with more cities/workers.

Native America would be interesting.

Can I just say Neal, I love your series. I voted for hannibal next game, should be interesting, but what i really want is a list of all your civ based yo momma jokes. "yo momma so fat she got the circumnavigation bonus all by herself!" Brilliant!:lol: keep em coming!

Neal is the new Sisiutil.

Ha. Native Americans won.

Ha. Native Americans won.

But he's already playing Darius ;)

Well, the fact that there's so much interest in old Sitting Bull hasn't been lost on me. He's definitely been moved up in my mental queue. But, really, I had Darius in mind for this game from the start. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't alone on that :)

I think Neal has been doing this already, but I've lately been taking the "no warrior rush" handicap on the Earth maps. It makes this a lot harder, especially for some resource-challenged civs in Europe. Try playing the Dutch with that rule! Better settle Scotland or you'll be in deep trouble.

Scotland is a great spot for a production city, especially if you found it just East of the Sheep. And if you beat England to that spot, they're kinda screwed.. its always the spot I hit first when playing as england. Dublin's spot isn't half bad for a commerce city, but starting out at Dublin (Like the Celts do) is a pain and a half. ESPECIALLY if you put the AI's settler on the hill, which means no Fish and no 2 hills to mine.

i'd vote for pericles. solid trait synergy, although others on the boards might say that creative is a crutch on hard levels.

right now, native americans is leading, but that would be a boring game. it would be an LHC game without any suspense. you would rex and spam wonders, especially the great wall, conquer the mayans, with maces and trebuchet, and eventually control the western hemisphere by around the time the ai gets to astronomy. then it's like a "choose your own victory game."

if they really want you to play an isolationist game, pick tokugawa. but i think that early diplomacy and tech trading are two of the hardest parts of the game to do well; starting in isolation insulates the player from making these choices.

if you pick the indians, definitely try for buddhism, but don't just switch to it willy-nilly on the first turn after you've founded it. wait to see how far and to whom hinduism will spread. and don't neglect it, either. whip a monastery and build some missionaries as soon as you have adequate military. if you can control the shrine of the dominant religion in the eastern hemisphere, that's piles of :gold: for you.

if you pick the persians, it might be too easy. although if you do, cyrus will make it much easier to take land, darius will make it easier to hold. also, using darius is the biggest crutch in everyone's game, not only because his traits are so powerful together but also that they dictate a certain set of strategies. anyways, good luck.

i also have a question:crazyeye: (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=311987)

what map size is this considered, as far as national wonders and quests go?