Hello everybody, it's time to present the 23nd installment of the Noble's Club series!

This time we are using:


Hatsheput!

Who does not get a picture because it didn't take when I thought it did.

Hatsheput. When there are discussions for "best leader in the game", Hatty rarely sees #1. Ask people for their top 5? Suddenly, it's different. The better warmonger of Egypt's starting two, Hatty can set the tone with war chariots, fast expansion and great people, and flexibility. Others rate her looks, but this isn't the place for that ;).

Egypt's UU is a chariot upgrade, with +1 str and FIRST STRIKE IMMUNITY...basically a stronger, anti-archer chariot. Somewhat eclipsed by immortals, the war chariot remains a solid instrument of slaughter nonetheless.

The UB rates a little more poorly, especially for Hatty who has little use with the culture. However, the priest slots are the earliest specialist slots possible, and can allow some interesting gambits to the brave.

And the start:

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/NC%20XXIII%20Hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

What, you thought I'd be handing out gold?! The economy is bad! I'm hedging! That said, I DID clean up the land near us a tiny bit, to make it less ridiculous.

What kind of map are we on? Let's do it BOTM style!

Opponents: Probably
Map script: Definitely
Win condition: Any
Bad humor: Likely
Custom Edits: Minimal

Very funny guys (but you're awesome...keep it up over there)

And here is the standard cut and paste of our Club Doctrine, courtesy of when Bleys was hosting the series and relentlessly vultured:

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at the following, but since this host admits to bypassing them on occasion you won't be skinned alive for following suit. I might tell Izzy you're not in her religion though:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series (and the one I learned from!), and all of you for playing.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG or HoF Mods), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC XXIII". This allows you to play with your favorite Mod at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince (I do so, but don't forget I was a noble player who benefited from this series myself!). However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs (unless your host gets too creative). The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main effects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech archery themselves.

I reserve the right to give tips. Or withhold them. Haha! But the relevant one from me this time is:

Mind favorite civics.

Starting zip file:

207997

hmm ... screams hammer capital to me ... gotta find a place where we can move the cap for more commence

First series game I'm actually going to take a part in and play.

Only really doing it because I hardly, if ever play hatty so I'll try and challenge myself.

Finally, I see a running NC game... But I may not have enough time. I haven't master TMIT's speeding trick yet. And I'll travelling this Saturday for 2 weeks.... Let's see. I'm thinking of GPr farming, though. And advice? I have never done that before.

Capitol is a bit weak for a GP farm (I agree with the notion of moving the palace actually). You want it in your highest food city. Early on you can run specs in more than one city to get 1st/2nd/possibly 3rd GP out sooner, after that it's time to think about whether you want to stay in "parallel GP" generation or go full-out GP farm (the latter is almost required when going mostly cottages or hammers, but might be best even with a spec approach).

In your GP farm, just run as many specialists as possible. Get pacifism/religion in there if your diplo can afford it, and consider national epic. Otherwise just run a ton...caste lets you run as many as you need of course and the transition from slavery to caste isn't always seamless...but optimized expansion rate + caste switch (and civic swapping with spiritual since hatty has the trait) aren't really the realm of noble play :p. It's good to run as many specialists in a "gp farm" as possible to get into the habit, though. Other than that, usually noble just needs to get expansion timing and tech choices down.

Settle in place and tech AH --> Min --> BW

Settle in place and tech AH --> Min --> BW

why not fishing ... true ... theres only a clam to be seen but nonetheless

i'd say

Fishing --> Min --> AH --> BW

TMIT - is this a reasonable game for me to move up to Emperor? :p

If this were Ramses I know exactly how I'd run this game. :)

With Hatshepsut . . . well, I'll have to think about it.

Noble's Club XXIII: Hatsheput
Hello everybody, it's time to present the 22nd installment of the Noble's Club series!:D :p

:D :p

:lol:

TMIT doesn't get enough sleep. He missed an "s" in Hatty's name too. Of course I'm the worst speller in the world so I can't talk.....:blush:

Capital looks food and commerce poor at first glance, but I'd settle in place to get the fresh water :health: from the river. Maybe flood plains to the west too?

Oh wow this sounds very nice. I think I'll give it a try!

:lol:

TMIT doesn't get enough sleep. He missed an "s" in Hatty's name too. Of course I'm the worst speller in the world so I can't talk.....:blush:

Capital looks food and commerce poor at first glance, but I'd settle in place to get the fresh water :health: from the river. Maybe flood plains to the west too?

Capital has 2 clam in its BFC, I've played up to 800BC or something around that on Prince/Epic so I'll post a bigger spoiler when i get some time tommorow

Thanks TMiT. I am yet to play a game of Civ to the finish. I will try to make this my first finish (and hopefully first win ;))

Not sure what the starting techs are or her traits but Fishing, Animal Husbandry, Mining & Bronze Working seem important early.

Will get my first update up later today.

I might join in. Only really played at Warlord, but Noble shouldn't be too big a jump. Wish me luck.

I love Egypt. I'll be playing this when I'm off work.

Not enough sleep is right...sometimes I civ when I should be in bed, but when I can sleep in the next day I just stay up too long sometimes. Then, you see typos and extremely bizarre LP's.

I haven't playtested the map because I didn't make any modifications that merited it, so I can't say if it's good for moving up in difficulty. It looks pretty reasonable to me in terms of challenge (probably won't be bad), but for moving up no idea...probably "lincoln of egypt" is a very easy game for moving up that's ongoing.

Moving up time, eh? Okay. Not Noble/Normal for the first time. Prince is next. Epic because if this world has horses I will need the war chariots to be affective and effective for some period of time. There is no apparent reason not to settle in place; animal husbandry seems to be the deal-maker or the harbinger of a serious "re-think". So, for now, it looks like warrior, worker, settler.

Emperor - Epic - 10AD

Settled in place, the capital has good production, but not much else, I'll probably move the palace to a city down in the jungle. I met the neighbors, Gilgamesh and Sury. Not my ideal choices. 2 strong AI leaders, and they're going to like each other thanks to peace weights and early favorite civics.

Anyway, tech path was fishing, AH, mining, BW. After growing the capital a little I started cranking out settlers to claim as much land as possible. First city was to the left claiming horses, and the next ones were settled right in Sury and Gil's faces to claim as much land as possible. Unfortunately that means settling in a ton of jungle. And to make things worse, the AI decided it wasn't going to help me by researching alphabet until ~300BC, so I had to tech IW off myself.

Interesting info from the Venerable Bede:

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/Phil725/LargestCivs0000.jpg

So we're on the big continent, with only 3 civs. Should make it pretty easy once we get rid of our continent.

Nothing else of interest yet really, there is plenty of land to expand peacefully, so no need to use war chariots. Although Sury went WHEOOHRN a few turns ago, so maybe my war chariots will get some use after all. He built SH, ToA and MoM in his capital, so I can always take that and get peace.

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/Phil725/NCXXIII10ADE0000.jpg

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/Phil725/NCXXIII10ADW0000.jpg

Still 5 or 6 more cities to fill in on our side of the continent. I think there may be an island to the north as well, I need to explore that. Should be able to stay peaceful until the renaissance, although probably not with these AIs.

Techs are OK:

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu184/Phil725/NCXXIII10ADTechs0000.jpg

I'll have philo on everyone as well once I get meditation.

I would guess the other continent is way behind, they're has been some fighting over there, Gil and Sury have gotten almost every wonder, and they're on a crowded continent. Just more motivation to take out the neighbors for an easy win.

I concur with the loving Egypt idea. Will have to give this a go.

Emperor/Epic
1000AD
Priest Economy!


Going for a very different type of game here to try and mix it up on myself. Going for a super priest style economy. Already one GP produced and another coming before the AD's. 21bpt and 4gpt BUT only 2 cities so far. Built Henge/Oracle (have CoL) and will be trying for SP and AW (capital is a poor GP farm but great production so I'm conflicted). This will be after attempting a late war chariot ousting of Sury, which is up next. This could go VERY badly but man will it be fun.

The Capital Priest Pump - next one will be for Sury's shrine since he probably spread it a bit better than my two Confucius cities.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/PriestPower.jpg

The massive Empire - worst case scenario there are at least 4 city sites and the barb city to the south for me to rush to but I think I'll be able to take Sury with War Chariots.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/TwoCities.jpg

Will play this...soon, maybe later, shooting for my second ever Noble win.

TMIT: are you going to do LPC for your own club? I'd love to see it. It's really nice to, as with the LHC to play a game through and then go back and see how you played differently. I certainly got a lot more out of doing that than simply watching.

Will play this...soon, maybe later, shooting for my second ever Noble win.

TMIT: are you going to do LPC for your own club? I'd love to see it. It's really nice to, as with the LHC to play a game through and then go back and see how you played differently. I certainly got a lot more out of doing that than simply watching.

Maybe next time...this time I'm doing it at monarch/quick to get more feel for how SGOTM 9 will play out in terms of just the speed settings.

Tech: Fishing, AH, Min, Writing, Alphabet, Asthetics to Literature, Col, Philo (bulb) CS, MC, Machinery, Education (bulb half), Liberalism, Feudalism, Guilds - HE again.

Build order: Worker till fishing done, WB, finish worker, WB, Library, warrior, warrior, settler, settler, worker, worker

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/hatty/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

975 BC debriefing.

As Hannibal Smith so often said, and I rarely can in BtS, "I love it when a plan comes together."
A War Chariot rush was the plan. Considering that huts were not a priority, the results were brilliant - Mysticism, hostile, scout, 90G, 138G, 52G, 55G. Team Egypt built as planned and the tech path was AH, fishing, mining, BW, IW, writing, pottery, masonry, meditation, priesthood looking at CoL.

The horse city was settled one SW of the lake to save time. It cost a warrior and the scout to lions. There was time to build the two barracks while waiting for writing to explore the opposition territory - Suryavarman II in 3675 and Gilgamesh in 2825. The Khmer War, 1st because of the Great Wall and the Hindu religion, ran from 1475 to 1375. (Here I think I made a mistake that is unaffordable in the Noble to Prince jump. The third city was at the iron/pig spot NE of the capital. I think I should have left a few of the boyos there until it had some culture rather than "ruining" it). The Sumerian War began in 1150 and this second civilization was destroyed in 975. Two civs down with a single military advantage. The butcher's bill was six of the 20 war chariots.

What's next for the seven-city empire? A new plan sounds like a plan.

Well after silly man now it is time for egypt. First time i tried i learned a lesson i have learned many times before: Play the map, not the civilization. So on my second try i didnt focus on getting an early religion using the obelisk for an early priest.

below is my second try emperor - normal - 4000bc until 1450 AD


Settled in place strating with building a warrior after the warrior 2 workboats followed by a warrior and a worker.

tech fishing - hunting - ah - mining - BW - after that i researched alphabet and then headed to the GL.

The land we have isnt really foodrich. The horses where at a very tricky spot and eventhough we have the awesome warchariot i didnt use it because it is 1450 AD i still havent claimed the horses :)

I founded memphis 1E of the corn and quickly followed by Heliopos 1E of the silk. After the following trade i settled the 3 cities at the West to block my two fellow hindi. Grabbing the Gems and corn.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208135&stc=1&d=1237930137

Chopped the GL and started to remove the jungle with lots of jungle and replace it with cottages. When i have build the university in memphys i will probably move the palace there, (is it usefull to move the palace since im not using bureacratie anymore to help me against the culture presure from surva and gilmash).

I felt confident in the race to liberalism, eventhough both, gilamesh and surva are teching at about the same pace as i am. Since gilly already had philo i traded it away.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208136&stc=1&d=1237930013

I really love being spirutal its my favorite. I changed alot between slavery and none slavery to avoid slave revolts (normally i play without random events). Anyways i used caste system to starve a city so it would produce a quick scientist to bulp education.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208137&stc=1&d=1237930137

Well this is why i dont like playing with randomevents
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208138&stc=1&d=1237930137

But on the otherside i really need the culture so this RE was rather nice
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208141&stc=1&d=1237930137

Anyways, i raced to liberalism and i took nationalism since no one had it and i would like a GA had a few forest to chop around the capital (still have some) and since im still in bureacratie its production is good. After building the taj (also build the UoS btw) I switched to Free Speech since i really feel the cultural pressure. It seems this continent is bulking of culture at least according to Tacitus

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208142&stc=1&d=1237930137

At 1 turn before the Taj i made maybe some dubious trades i would like you comment on them.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208139&stc=1&d=1237930137

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208140&stc=1&d=1237930137

The turn later i also trade Liberalism and printing press for astronomy with sury also maybe dubious.

Still it is looking good at the moment, but now i am really in doubt what to do, since i really need to study it seems like a good time to quite playing and wait for some good advice. Since i cant add more picture to this post it will continue in the next post.

Okey here a situation of the world right now (1450 AD)



Well currently im looking at the following situation i could go for the peacefull victory (maybe UN else space race) or make some violent wars. As the other continent really is lacking sci. Anyways here are the screenshots.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208145&stc=1&d=1237932055


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208146&stc=1&d=1237932055

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208147&stc=1&d=1237932055


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208148&stc=1&d=1237932055

In 1 turn i will have scientific method
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208150&stc=1&d=1237932055

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208151&stc=1&d=1237932055


Right now i have to Galleys crossing the world one has just met orange man (lol @ TMIT :)) and i can get his worldmap might shave a few turns of the "you have proven the world is round" but saladin is also in the race for this. Futher i still havent met 2 other civilizations.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208149&stc=1&d=1237932055

If you have any advice should i continue peacefully or wreck some havoc with a nice invasion on the other island?

thanks in advantage now im of to studie i played this game about 3 hours to long already including this write up :)

Longest 1000BC – 500AD I think I've ever played
Emperor/Epic *
more like Monarch+1 or Noble+2 due to garrisoned warriors replacing archers in Sury’s cities


Get a group of WC’s together and in 500BC we make a trade with the guy we are about to off anyway. What’s he gonna do with it? Throw paintings at us?

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/500BC-HesDeadAnyway.jpg



Well the war against the Jews lasts all of 195 years and is little more than an experience farm. Sury had a whopping 3 cities in addition to no horses or copper. Level 1 archers and warriors are fairly easy for chariots little yet a unique one. He did build some nice stuff though and his third city has iron, though he never lived long enough to realize that.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/City1.jpg
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/City2.jpg
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/City3.jpg


Well now its 245BC, Gilgamesh is looking fairly weak, and our unique unit is not going to come back into season. He also owns the Hindu holy city which is the most prevalent religion. Tech rate nose dive? Yup, but screw it. He's pleased with us and yet won't trade anything. Worthless!

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Screwit-245BC.jpg


Instead of marching through the jungle chariots are funneled to the SE of Gilga’s empire and attack the softer and more travelable underbelly. This miiiiight be a bit more than I was expecting. Stone+Protective…

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Owies.jpg


Veteran chariots prevail and Gilgamesh takes a noticeable hit to his power score. As if it were not obvious all new cities in both Gilgamesh and Sury’s territories begin on courthouses even before granaries. The treasury is shrinking at 100% wealth and growing a city to the happy cap while being at war for a century should not be a huge issue.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/EriduDown.jpg


A goal. I love having a goal.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Crusade.jpg


Well 60% culture but at least no wall! The Sumerian’s proclivity to building swordsmen over vultures is aggravating. Never really considered it before this war but War Chariots eat vultures pretty badly, especially C2+ chariots.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Urukgarrison.jpg


No wall made taking the holy city pretty freaking easy. For the trouble Egypt gains two wonders. Also this war has now already lasted almost as long as the one against Sury. Hills and units above archers really bog war down.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Uruk-HG-5BC.jpg
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/QuestDone-10AD.jpg


In 115AD Egypt completes a wonder that it forgot it was building. I wish I had forgot I was building the Parthenon, but oh wait I don’t have Polytheism. It now makes more sense to me.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/SoZ115AD.jpg


More walls! AHHHHHH!

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Walls-blah.jpg


The supply of veteran war chariots has dwindled massively. Thankfully Gilgamesh will talk peace whenever Egypt is good and ready – i.e. after taking these gems and leaving him with one city.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Lagashdown.jpg


The year 445AD was a glorious one that saw the completion of another wonder and what may as well be the fall of the Sumerian empire. With the loss of everything but a small jungle city on a hill Gilgamesh provided… well it was an offer that could not be refused. HBR would have been nice but I guess it will do. It buys him 10 turns to find someone else to capitulate to before being a smear in a history book.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/SP445AD.jpg
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/10turnsoflife445AD.jpg


Now the rebuilding and consolidating phase begins. Thanks to the SP the empire converts to Free Religion to spread around the happiness provided by the three religions on the continent. The idea of a priest economy slightly went under due to the lengthy war but in 490AD another great person is born. With 45% odds of a Priest, 25% odds of a merchant, well whatever you get the point. We get a booby prize.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/BoobyPrize490AD.jpg


Well whenever contact is made with the other continent I'm going to go out on a limb and say we'll be a bit behind. Until recently the rest of the world had only claimed Buddhism and in 500AD our big tech of the moment is CURRENCY! Cutting edge here baby!

Ahaha, Syracuse Orange Man! Shame I never got to see him though, he got destroyed, either by barbs or Portugal in my game (Amsterdam, the Buddhist holy city, was Portuguese!

Report to come soon, Monarch/Epic. Decided not to step up after all (maybe next game) ;)

TMIT, how the heck to you always manage to finish your games in under 3hrs? It usually takes me at least the triple of that.

TMIT, how the heck to you always manage to finish your games in under 3hrs? It usually takes me at least the triple of that.

O great TMIT! Please teach us your mighty ways!!:bowdown:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301900

I am relatively new (both to the forums and BtS), but I thought I would dive right in and open up my gameplay to any constructive criticism offered. Noble/normal to 1000 BC:

I have played and won a couple of games at Noble, but my approach seems far from optimal. In particular, I tend to do better when the map or other circumstances constrain my available options. This start seemed relatively wide-open and so here was my approach:

Tech order: Fishing > Mining > popped Pottery > AH (spotted Horse city location) > popped Sailing > BW (no Copper visible) > Mysticism > Writing > IW (found lots) > Hunting > Masonry

My initial plan was to chariot rush a close neighbor, so I probably should have gone Fishing > AH > Mining. I also built Stonehenge in the capitol, which were hammers that might have been better spent elsewhere, but I thought I would take advantage of the free UB, even though Hatty is already Creative. I'm also used to Epic, so Normal seems a little fast to me.

State of the world at 1000 BC:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

After hooking up the horses and iron, I decided to expand toward Sury in the south while researching Mathematics. I probably should have been more aggressive and stuck with my original rush idea. At this point I'm going to build swords and chariots (and maybe wait for cats?) to eventually take out Sury, using the whip to speed production and minimize overcrowding unhappiness.

Trystero


You could still chariot rush Sury only because Egypt's chariot is its unique unit. At best Sury has axes by now on noble. Even on a higher level 6 strength swords versus 5 strength WC's isn't a huge discrepancy as long as there aren't too many of them. War Chariots will destroy warriors and axes and due to being immune to first strikes innately are pretty good against archers as well. Upgrade a handful of chariots as flanking to hopefully take the hits and get out against fortified archers and then use combat upgraded ones to finish the job. Normally though you are right that a rush should already be about to happen if not already in full swing by 1000BC.

Well to summerize, i lost the game. At the start i feel have played to peacefull. After a good start i gave it away after the liberalism race, not able to build enough culture my south cities all lost workeble tiles causing me to build mostly culture and thus unable to produce spaceships parts.

next time no peacefull building anymore :)

Gnaf, some border-city culture tips:

When faced with a CRE neighbor, its important to get those culture buildings up ASAP, the sooner the better. Be thankful its not Zara, hes a true culture beast.

So here are some ideas for you. First off, spread as many religions as you can to those cities, and get those Monasteries and cheap Temples (from SPI) up right away. Also, Founding a religion in a city is a +5, so its nice when you get CoL or Philo for their religion and it lands in a border city, even though you arent really "trying" for them.

Wonders are excellent Culture battlers. Especially the Artist Wonders you dont really want in your GP city. Parth, Sistine, MoM, and SoZ are all +10 culture Wonders. New border cities likely have forests and excess food, so use em to get the SoZ or Parth up, especially if you have a resource. Consider National Wonder placement as well, a forward position for the HE can be an early game winner, and a mid-game dominator. You need a Forbidden Palace for economic growth, so put its Culture to use as well as its primary function.

Also, believe it or not, despite being CRE, you want that Monument. It will eventually double to +2 soon enough to contribute to the tile-battles. Being CRE also means cheap Theaters, making Drama desirable.

Modifiers like +50 and 100%% are nice, but you need a strong base culture number to apply to those modifiers.

And finally, never forget that the best way to relieve the culture pressure on one of your cities is too capture/raze the city thats applying the pressure. I often have mini "not real" wars where I DoW, take and raze an annoying city the AI has, then just shore up defensively til he will take peace. Sure it gets you off on the wrong foot, but an AI like Sury is more concerned with your religion and civics, so you can fool him constantly with SPI swaps. One trick I especially like is to bring a settler to found the city yourself after to raze his. You have to be ready to defend it and apply cultural pressure ASAP though, so have your ducks in a row, but go for it. Little wars never hurt a Builder.I didnt read your reports all the way through bro, because I want to play this myself without too much pre-knowledge, but I read why you feel you lost, hope this helps.

505 AD debriefing.

The downside of going up is that Prince/Epic really is harder than Noble/Normal.

First, a reportage error, Gilgamesh was the head Hindu. Seven cities and 364 gold would be a reasonable stretch at the old level and speed but not on this plane. The only thing I could think of was de-commissioning more than half of the army, cottaging, chopping and mathematics to currency with sometime at zero-tech. The turning point was 130 AD when Yasodharavra produced a Great Spy for a Golden Age. In 340 AD the western horse city snared Confucianism.

The economy is quasi-functional. The key recent decision is one of technology and I chose the Literature path over the Optics path. Most immediately, a barbarian city is blocking the route form Thebes to the southern resources so the economy will have to stretch to a modest re-armament programme.

Next? Wonders?

@ Lansky:

I was definitely intending to go after Sury with a WC stack, regardless. If anything just for pillaging purposes while I wait to get cats. Since this is the first time I've posted a game to the forum, I think I was playing a little conservative. Thanks for reminding me of the WCs bonus against Axes in BtS! I keep forgetting about that :blush:

re: Wonders

In retrospect, since all the leaders on this land mass are Creative, maybe building SH wasn't such a bad thing. Or am I overestimating the value of monuments in this circumstance? I guess my placement of Elephantine may test that (unless I can overrun Sury with War Chariots).

i find the map rather easy to admit ... my only major problem after killing off my 'roommates' early on was that the other continent had a union where one of them was master over a load of vassals :S

re: Wonders

In retrospect, since all the leaders on this land mass are Creative, maybe building SH wasn't such a bad thing. Or am I overestimating the value of monuments in this circumstance? I guess my placement of Elephantine may test that (unless I can overrun Sury with War Chariots).

It breaks down to the player's choice really. I love Stonehenge creative or not. Newly settled/captured cities will pop borders 1 turn sooner and two extra priest specialist slots, and that early in the game, is not an awful thing to add in every city. At the same time with no other modifiers your borders will pop in 4 turns instead of 5. Not game breaking but I like it.

More than anything else I commonly try for a prophet as my first GP to help early wars/expansions. Someone that shoots hard for a GS early may see it merely as pollution in this situation.

@ Bleys

thank you for the feedback, I should indeed have concentrated earlier on culture especially since i settled agressively close to his capital. Lesson learned.

Monarch/Epic to 1867AD (conclusion)

I found this one relatively easy to be honest. I think for the next game I will definitely move up, because I made a few silly mistakes that I should have been punished for, and still managed to relatively easily breeze through the game from about the Middle Ages on.

The first thing to say about my game was that I founded Memphis in that absolutely plum location to the south. Didn't get many screenshots from this game, but here's an 1100BC shot of my land:

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2488/civ4screenshot0032.jpg

However, there is a reason I still only have two cities by that point. You see the city ruins just south of Gaul? Well, that was city number 3. The problem was, along came a barb axe and ...well, I'm sure you can guess the rest.

Anyway, I refounded that city and managed to annexe all of the northern half of the continent for myself. You can also see from that screenshot that I founded Judaism a few turns before; this helped enormously. It was the only religion on the continent, so we were all one big happy family until Gilgamesh founded Confucianism, and adopted it. So, the predictable thing happened.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/359/civ4screenshot0033.jpg

I wiped Gilgamesh off the map, but decided to leave Sury alone. Took PP from Lib in 1330AD - with 2/3 of the continent, and the other continent pretty backward (except for Joao, who had enough on his hands - in more ways that one - with Shaka) I could win any way I liked. I had 3 shrined religions (all in different cities, unfortunately)

Chose culture as I'd not done it for a while. So it was a case of beelining Medicine, founding Sushi, beelining Mass Media, founding Civ Jewelers, and eventually I founded whatever the other one is that competes with Mining Inc. But only with a few turns to go - it didn't make a lot of difference. No problems from anybody else - Sury was friendly for as long as I stayed in OR, which was all game.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7042/civ4screenshot0031.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7492/civ4screenshot0030.jpg

I also want to include a shot of possibly my best commerce city ever:

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5855/civ4screenshot0034.jpg

Emperor next time! I promise.

Noble/Epic - to 1750 BC

This is my first attempt of the chariot rush ever, so I was hoping for horses.
The technology was animal husbandry - mining - bronze working - fishing - pottery - writing - masonry.

First I met Sury:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/meet1.jpg

The first two huts gave me gold and the third one an evil warrior who proceeded to attack me and die. While exploring I also found horses to the west of the capital, so the rush was on.
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/horse.jpg

As luck would have it the random event gave me pasture right after a worker was built:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/autopasture.jpg

At this point I met with Gilgamesh and built my horse city. The random event gave me a quest to build war chariots, which I was going to do anyway:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/quest.jpg

I signed open borders with Sury and began to explore his land. He already had two cities, but I found his capital:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/capital.jpg

And then a disaster struck! My pasture on horses was destroyed. :cry: Now being a n00b, I had no idea what to do about that. I was afraid that by building a new pasture I would loose my initiative, and to make things worse, the workers were chopping the capital and far from the pasture:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/no_horses.jpg

So I decided to attack with what I had, since I figured Sury will not have anything to defend with. I took his capital without loses:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/victory.jpg
And a few turn later, his second city, and the war was over.
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/one_down.jpg

I did not play past this point, because I would like to hear your comments. Too bad this is still too early to read any of the spoilers so far.

Here are the pictures of my empire. The capital:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/north.jpg

The conquered Sury land:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/south_east.jpg

The explored southwest, with Gilgamesh lurking somewhere here:
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/south_west.jpg

So any suggestions for the future? Should I build more cities due to my war success, or should I continue to build more chariots and take out Gilgamesh, now that pasture is online and I need chariots for the quest anyway.

@MStumm


Were I still playing Noble, I would reconnect the horse and build a little more WCs to rush Gilg as well. However, the goal is not to completely eliminate him, which may be too late by now, and he could get Archer or Axemen up. But you should be able to capture/destroy some of his outer layer cities and do deny of service on him so that he could never get copper or iron. You can lay siege on him for thousands of years well doing building your empire in the back the same time. Only need to worry about Barbs and focus on REX and happy researching, and pay more attention to empire management.

Checkpoint 1, to 920 AD

Well, I played a bit. I'm in a rough spot, but it's looking like I might just win this one. Sorry, no screenshots here.

What I did was I settles in place, and sent my warrior exploring out west. My early techpath went fishing->mining->AH

While I was out, I popped experience and 81 gold from three huts.

My next techpath went: Masonry->BW. I later popped Mysticism from a hut.

I built this and that in my capital, the production's wonderful. Just because it only took me a few turns, I went ahead and build the GW.

Noticing that my land is jungle-ridden, I next went IW->Pottery->Writing

I settled right up close to Sury, and then decided to try to kill off the punk with Swords/Cats, so I next teched Math.

And that's where I ended my round. I don't have Iron currently, but I have a settler on the way. If I can kill off Sury (He doesn't have IW yet), and then Giggles, I'll probably win simply by better land (and perhaps more of it).

Hi

Prince, Marathon, 1040 BC

I settlted in place and teched fishing to I coud try and get some food going. This whole map seem to be good news bad news combo hehe. Good news Plains hills center, 7 hills in bfc means LOTS of hammers potential Bad news lack of food and lack of resources mean it gonna be awhile before cap really get going.

AFter teching fishing I teched out AH to find horseys then mining and bw. Horseys found but kinda far off but I WANT WC's so first settler goes off to get em then after GW chopped to keep barbies from coming and asking whats in my wallet I do the combo of chop,build with over flow, whio, build with overflow,chop etc repeat until I have nice stack of WC's. Goodnews no copper anywhere near the ai's so no spears, bad news they both creative so it still could be a pain (not to mention NO FRICKIN copper newheres near but right now thats a good thing though it WILL be annoying once we want it for ourselves hehe)

Sury goes down first we keep his cap and one other city then raze everything else. Then it off to Giggles and we keep his cap which he was nice enough to build SH for us and raze everything else. SO good news AI's been dealth with. Bad news we already overexpanded a bit and slow on tech and NOOO trading partners for awhile.

More good news:
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/mycont.jpg

We have BIG huge cont to ourselves. Bad news is NOOOO early happy resources. Well there IS gems but theyre not that close and IW not even teched yet. The good news is there decent odds at SOME point during game gold and silver (and even copper) have chance up popping up during game. Bad news is NOOO idea when it will happen plus I just KNOW game code is written with little function that says something "make things hard for kaytie" so even BETTER odds that ONLY things that will pop will be gems :P

Here close up of cities:

My cities up north:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/north1040bc.jpg

Main goal here is hook up stone and chop out 'mids cuz we NEED happy stuff.

Down south and to east, sury's old lands:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/east1040bc.jpg

Immediate plan for these cities is as soon as preisthood teched out chop oracle here if we still have chance at it. Not sure what to pick if we get it done but CoL might be best choice.

And over to west is Giggles old cap:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/west1040bc.jpg

Immediate plan here is to cottage cottage cottage to get beakers and gold up. Good news is there TONS of nice cottage sites here, bad news is I HATE cottages and resent being reduced to needing them hehe :P

Demos such as they are:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/1040bcdemos.jpg

Well thats it at this point. Game now a LHC game pretty much hehe. Only plans now is hope 'mids, oracle can get built and then do new wave of expansion. techwise there whole TON of techs I need but mainly sailing to try and get cities hooked up better and maybe go for glh, IW cuz lots of land up on north coast is kinda useless with not much resources and the land inland have LOTS of jungle, and CoL cuz even if I dont get a religion I am gonna need courthouses asap.

AT this point too early to tell if going for early clearing out of land mass was good move or dumb move. I do have chance to get whole continent to myself but it also mean slower teching with no partners and even slower now with over expansion so it could come back to bite me but we will see. Wish me luck :)
Kaytie

@Kaytie:
Nice job on taking the continent. In retrospect I should have chariot rushed the two as well, but for some reason, I didn;t see the Horses when I got AH, grr...Anywho, good luck with your game, most likely you'll come out on top, even without trading, your land should be decent enough to keep you afloat.

Emp/Epic to 1000 BC. First time posting in NC. Included pretty detailed logging, various screenshots at the end, various comments/questions embedded and at the end. Would love some feedback.


Logging by BUG Mod 3.6 (BtS 3.13-3.17)
------------------------------------------------
[b]Turn 0/750 (4000 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:28:47]
Thebes founded
Thebes begins: Worker (18 turns)

Settle in place, worker first, initial plan is AH for cows and to reveal horses.

Turn 1/750 (3975 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:33:23]
Research begun: Animal Husbandry (19 Turns)

Turn 5/750 (3875 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:03:08]
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Fishing
Tribal village results: technology

Luck into fishing from a hut, very convenient.

Turn 12/750 (3700 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:05:23]
Contact made: Khmer Empire

Meet Khmer. OK.

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Animal Husbandry
Thebes finishes: Worker

First worker and AH come together. Next mining, seems clear enough. No horses revealed yet sadly.

Turn 19/750 (3525 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:07:22]
Research begun: Mining (12 Turns)
Thebes begins: Work Boat (23 turns)

Turn 22/750 (3450 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:09:19]
Turn 22 I find horses. First screenie:
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/Perplexity_photobucket/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

Turn 28/750 (3300 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:11:27]
After End Turn:
Thebes grows to size 2

Other Player Actions:
Contact made: Sumerian Empire

Meet Sumerians. OK.

Turn 30/750 (3250 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:12:13]

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Mining

Turn 31/750 (3225 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:12:29]
Research begun: Bronze Working (24 Turns)

Finished mining, BW now, seems clear enough again.

After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Work Boat

Turn 32/750 (3200 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:12:38]
Thebes begins: Warrior (6 turns)
A Fishing Boats was built near Thebes

With first WB done, plan is to grow to size 5 (happy cap) while building another WB and some warriors. Then settler.

Turn 35/750 (3125 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:13:17]
After End Turn:
Thebes grows to size 3

Turn 37/750 (3075 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:13:40]
After End Turn:
Thebes's borders expand
Thebes finishes: Warrior

Turn 38/750 (3050 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:13:44]
Thebes begins: Warrior (6 turns)

Turn 40/750 (3000 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:18:07]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Warrior

Turn 41/750 (2975 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:19:33]
Thebes begins: Work Boat (6 turns)

Turn 43/750 (2925 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:20:39]
After End Turn:
Thebes grows to size 4

Turn 45/750 (2875 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:20:50]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Work Boat

Turn 46/750 (2850 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:21:09]
Thebes begins: Warrior (3 turns)

Turn 48/750 (2800 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:32:43]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Warrior

Turn 49/750 (2775 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:32:49]
Thebes begins: Warrior (3 turns)
After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Bronze Working

No copper anywhere. Hmm.

Turn 50/750 (2750 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:33:42]
Research begun: Masonry (10 Turns)

With opponents so far away, I stop thinking about WC rush and start thinking about priest economy using stonehenge, mids, eventual AW, etc. So masonry.

Turn 51/750 (2725 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:34:39]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Warrior

Turn 52/750 (2700 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:35:16]
Thebes begins: Warrior (3 turns)
A Fishing Boats was built near Thebes

Starting the last warrior here, will finish same turn as hitting size 5.

Turn 54/750 (2650 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:36:14]
And first chop finishes, overflow will go to settler.
After End Turn:
Thebes grows to size 5
Thebes finishes: Warrior

Turn 55/750 (2625 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:36:50]
Thebes begins: Settler (10 turns)

Turn 59/750 (2525 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:38:23]
After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Masonry

Turn 60/750 (2500 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:38:40]
Research begun: Mysticism (8 Turns)

Myst for stonehenge.

Turn 63/750 (2425 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:39:54]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Settler

First settler out, going to head west for cow/horse/corn/incense.

Turn 64/750 (2400 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:40:02]
Thebes begins: Worker (6 turns)

Turn 66/750 (2350 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:42:50]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Worker

Turn 67/750 (2325 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:43:04]
Thebes begins: Worker (6 turns)
Memphis founded
Memphis begins: Worker (30 turns)

Worker first in second city. I never know what to build first when I have/plan stonehenge (so no monument) and don't have pottery.

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Mysticism

Turn 68/750 (2300 BC) [25-Mar-2009 20:44:59]
Research begun: Polytheism (12 Turns)

After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Worker

Turn 73/750 (2175 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:18:07]
Thebes begins: Stonehenge (15 turns)

Will chop out stonehenge with multiple workers, now.

Turn 74/750 (2150 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:20:55]
After End Turn:
Memphis's borders expand

Second city expands to corn/cows. Creative is great.

Turn 78/750 (2050 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:24:05]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Stonehenge

Stonehenge online. Start another worker.

Turn 79/750 (2025 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:24:23]
Thebes begins: Worker (6 turns)

Turn 83/750 (1925 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:26:07]

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Polytheism
Thebes finishes: Worker

Turn 84/750 (1900 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:26:15]
Research begun: Pottery (12 Turns)
Thebes begins: The Temple of Artemis (44 turns)

ToA seems to fit in with priest economy. Maybe a bad choice though. Another settler instead maybe.

Turn 88/750 (1800 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:28:49]
After End Turn:
Memphis finishes: Worker

Turn 89/750 (1775 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:29:02]
Memphis begins: Warrior (22 turns)

Still nothing more exciting to build.

Turn 96/750 (1600 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:32:35]
After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Pottery

Turn 97/750 (1575 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:42:35]
Research begun: Writing (18 Turns)

Turn 99/750 (1525 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:44:35]
After End Turn:
Memphis grows to size 3
Memphis finishes: Warrior

Turn 100/750 (1500 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:44:46]
Memphis begins: Settler (11 turns)

Now at size 3, well timed to start a settler to head west for corn/fish.

Turn 102/750 (1450 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:45:51]
A Cottage was built near Memphis
A Cottage was built near Memphis

Turn 103/750 (1425 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:46:00]
A Cottage was built near Memphis

Setting up Memphis for commerce.

Turn 104/750 (1400 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:46:58]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: The Temple of Artemis

Turn 105/750 (1375 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:48:21]
Thebes begins: Barracks (6 turns)

Turn 108/750 (1300 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:51:00]
After End Turn:
Thebes finishes: Barracks

Turn 109/750 (1275 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:51:12]
Thebes begins: The Pyramids (54 turns)
Research begun: Writing (5 Turns)

Mids next, about to pop border to access stone.

After End Turn:
Thebes's borders expand

Turn 110/750 (1250 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:53:01]
After End Turn:
Memphis finishes: Settler

Turn 111/750 (1225 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:53:34]
Memphis begins: Granary (13 turns)

Turn 112/750 (1200 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:54:47]
Heliopolis founded
Heliopolis begins: Work Boat (45 turns)

Third city, in the west, WB first for sure.

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Writing

Turn 113/750 (1175 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:55:14]
Research begun: Alphabet (44 Turns)

Was not at all sure what to research next.

Turn 114/750 (1150 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:56:22]
A Quarry was built

Stone online for mids.

Turn 117/750 (1075 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:57:31]

After End Turn:
Mani (Great Prophet) born in Thebes

First great prophet of many to come. Settled in capital.

Turn 120/750 (1000 BC) [25-Mar-2009 21:58:53]

And now 1000 BC so various state of the world shots / comments:

Overview. Two additional city sites indicated. Seem reasonable enough. So much jungle and opponents are so far away. I usually play more crowded maps.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/Perplexity_photobucket/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

Capital. This is going to be a pretty nice, high production city. One great prophet and one free priest already (ToA).
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/Perplexity_photobucket/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg

Second city. This will be a strong commerce city, can support some specialists too. Needs a library soon.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/Perplexity_photobucket/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg

Third city. Solid hybrid, two food resources. Granary next.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/Perplexity_photobucket/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg

Five workers and five warriors. These workers can easily support a couple more cities -- development is going quickly. I probably need some better barb defense ASAP.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/Perplexity_photobucket/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

Tech. Not much to add. My rate is slow now but I will start to work cottages and rep from mids is coming soon and I'll run specs.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr259/Perplexity_photobucket/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg

So..

I initially hoped to rush but decided not to since the opponents were pretty far away. Not sure if this was wise, I see that others successfully claimed the full continent.

I think I'm going to try emphasizing priests more than I have before. Take advantage of the UB. I'll pursue Ankgor Wat aggressively. Settle lots of great prophets.

Not sure how to handle the huge jungle area between me and opps. Seems like bad land in general. Usually I try to expand a lot more rapidly.

How does it look?

Checkpoint 2 Noble/epic 1100 BC


Following Amao advice I continued my aggression and killed Gilgamesh. He had a few promoted archers so I lost a couple chariots, but I razed all his cities and kept the capital in the end. Now I have the whole continent for myself. Lets see what should I do next? Happyness is low so I need pyramids and calender, maintenance is high so code of laws is needed too (I also want religion). Also since I've never done this before, I would like to have a GP farm. Sury former capital seems good for this, so I built a library there and running two scientists.

What should I do with that giant continent of mine. Any dot mapping advice. I numbered my cities, but the number is not the order I will build them.

http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

@Mstumm


I'm hornored as a not so solid Prince leveler. :lol:

I'll suggest you go for currency after alphabet. alpha gives you the ability to build science, and currency add one more trade route and let you build money to save you from bankrupcy. Then, maybe tech Monarchy and swtich to HR to solve your happy cap. And then beeline Optics to get in touch with the other continient. This will take you well into ADs

City placement, Food, the more the better. Luxuries can be wait if you get Monarchy. So I say the site 2 you were planning is no better than a coastal city with Fish+Wheat+Pig, that's +11 to +12 food and you can run 2 priest+2 scientist+2 merchant if you have the buildings rushed.

Also expand continuously and with caution, don't bankrupt yourself. But if you can keep a possitive balance with 0% science, and using pure scientists + build science to keep your tech ok, I say you are not overexpanded yet. :) Just be careful, it's edgy. Maybe like v8_mark to set up that Corn city south of capital and make it a cottage heaven and running scientists elsewhere.

General Map Comment/Review of a very early loss:

The military resource distribution really surprised me. Due to some bad luck with scouting, I didn't find the horse source early, and happened to settle my cities with the metal ending up outside of my BFCs. I was also surprised by religion failing to appear on the continent; usually I just adopt a neighbor's. Needless to say, Sury with his multitude of metal made mincemeat of my military. :)

I might replay this one, but I'm not sure what I'd do differently -- except maybe move the capitol to get Stone in the BFC and allow for another city before the desert.

@ Kaytie:

Marathon is wonderful for scouting and military, isn't it? :)

Replay, Prince/Normal to 800 AD (150 turns)

Moving the Settler to one NE of the clams turned out to make a large difference, as did pursuing Judaism. I've converted the continent and built both the AP and the University of Sankore. I'm in a good position to get Liberalism (sneaking Paper through Theology instead of Civil Service) and trying to decide whether or not to attack with Gunpowder when I get it.

Princess. Epic. 950bc.
Haven't played for a couple of months so I'm definitely rusty.

Built Warpig/Memphis for horses about 2500bc, built a stack of chariots (8 I think), wiped out Sury in 1500bc (kept 2 cities), wiped out Gilly in 1200bc (kept 3 cities). Sury built Gwall for me. Gilly had founded Hindusim.
Currently got 7 cities, running 100% cash and just breaking even. Researched alphabet so I'm running a bunch of scientists and building research in a couple of places.
Even though I haven't reearched masonry I've got stone and marble available via my former room-mates so wonders may be an option to consider. Possibly research masonry and build pyramids and maybe Glite (got sailing already).

I havent done many reports on these lately, mostly because I dont play them while they are "active", I download them and play them later. But this one, GnafGnaf got me interested early, so here is a semi-report:

1000 AD, Emperor, Epic, gave the AIs Archery so I wouldnt be tempted to WC Rush vs Warriors:

Giving the AIs Archery is done in the WB, so I did get a look at all the opponents, but I didnt really look at any of the map. I already knew it was Continents and our landmass partners were Giggles and Sury the ET.

Anyway, I settled in place, built a Warrior while teching Fishing. Early tech order went Fishing, AH, Mining, popped Pottery from a hut (only got 2 huts I think, Pottery and a Warrior), BW, Masonry, etc. Build order was Warrior, Workboat, Worker, Workboat, Worker, Warrior, Settler. I settled the Horses with my 2nd city, and a very strong spot due-south of my Cap on that wonderful River with my 3rd. I had WCs out running around very quickly, and noticed right away that Sury didnt have Copper, and wasnt PRO, so he was going to be my first target.

Then the weird stuff started happening. First, it was Giggles who founded a Religion (not sure which, I play with Choose Religions on), and despite him having Stone early, it was Sury who built the following Wonders in his Cap. Stonehenge, The Great Wall, and The Mids, stealing them from me by 1o turns, but I wasnt totally serious, was looking for the cash since the land was very "CEish".

Naturally, that made me drool rather extensively, so I gathered up my Barb-Buster WCs which were all Combat 2 or C1+Shock by now, and build another bunch to support them. When I had about 8 WC on his border, and 3 more on the way, I attacked. Sury had Iron by then, but just barely. I spotted it right away, it was on a desert flatland, and pillaged it ASAP, so he never got more than 1 Spear out. However, He had some Archers, and I ended up giving him peace after razing a city, taking his Cap, and taking the next city in line, which he had built the ToA in.

Kind of crazy eh? Doesnt Sury usually found religions, and arent they about equal Wonder Spammers? Gilga had STONE and didnt build any. Sury had MARBLE and build the Stone Wonders! I checked to see if Gilga was trading the stone to Sury, but it didnt say so. I dunno.

Anyway, the game has been pretty simple since then. I plan to hit Gilga with Cannons after I take Steel from Lib. My Capitol is now my HE city, and I will move the Palace to a city of Gilgas in a good spot. Heres the screenshots:

Surys old land. I razed and resettled the city on the coast just north of his cap, and took these other two and kept them. I couldnt finish him off, though, and while I was waiting for borders to pop, Gilga settled on that Iron tile. Sury has a decent new Cap and 4 crappy cities though, so he is not a factor.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/Civ4ScreenShot0063-1.jpg

Heres the area to the West. I am winning the culture war with Gilga, because I built a couple Wonders in Elephantine.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/Civ4ScreenShot0060.jpg

Heres Surys cap. I got it early enough to convert it to my GP farm, and built the GL and AW here. I am CRUSHING both of them in culture here, I also built a Wonder in the city to the South. I also founded religions with CoL and Philo, and I have spread them and built Temples to get to Cathedrels in the border cities.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/Civ4ScreenShot0059.jpg

My Cap, and being converted to my HE city.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/Civ4ScreenShot0061-1.jpg

Here is the city that I have my eye on for my future Cap, before I contact the other continent. Its not his Cap, its the one NE with the Floods and Hills.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Bleys_bucket/Civ4ScreenShot0062-1.jpg Getting the Mids meant going SE, especially with the UB allowing early Priests. Hatty and Ramesses can basically run a strong SE without even using Caste, but I kept putting up reminders to swap civics, LOL. I should have this game well in hand though. The AP was built on the other landmass, so it wont be an issue for a while. I am not going to bother putting the AIs on my landmass out of the game though, too much of a grind. Just going to vassalize em, then Galleon land on the other landmass and go for a fast Conquer win.

1265 AD debriefing.

In 565 AD the Egyptians got a serious bonus - desperately chopping for cottages produced the Great Pyramids in Yasodharapura. With literature in the bag that barbarian city south of Thebes was eliminated to re-open the resource route and the Great Library was built in the capitol which is going to have to be the principal science city. By 1100 the Hindu and Confucian shrines were founded (so, the finances were still challenged).

After literature the tech path was to optics (1060) for an LHC-like get-off the island adventure. Hatsheput met Willem in 1220, Saladin in 1240, Shaka and Joao II in 1250. Only the demanding latter was more technologically advanced. The Egyptians circumnavigated in 1265 and even better the turn before drew a Great Merchant.

Happy days are here again.

Liberalism looks winnable. Thebes also has the National Epic and the Temple of Artemis. Yasodharapura added the early Great General, the Heroic Epic and the Parthenon. The mix of wonders and specialists should trend toward scientists.

Hi

Prince, Marathon 1546 AD

Mostly the game wa sjust me playing sim empire. Mids got built and then oracle and I picked CoL for reebie and founded judaism with it. I lost out on GLH but got collosus done along with a few other shinies. One of my GP's bulbed theo and then I built AP and am only one running the ap religion so I dont have to worry about AP cheese biting me.

I lose out on HG but still doing ok and built tons of other stuff and then Jao comes by in a carrack. Grrr the ONLY civ who has chance to settle MY landmass b4 astronomy and he in the game. So I start hurrying up getting out settlers to block off my coast and then settled the inland later.

I also had to hurry if I wanted to win map race. When Jao showed up I wa slike one trun away from optics. So as soon as optics done I have one city on my east building a caraval. I didnt have enuff gold yet to upgrade a trieme so I had to wait. eventually I do I get one upgraded and another one built and they go off in sep directiotns. I end up meeting syracuse orangeguy and he trades me his map for code of laws and that lets me beat joa in map race.

Other than that there only really been 3 tech trades. I trade col and music to jao for feudalism and that let me jump straight for guilds and then banking. I managed to bulb paper, philosphy, and used two great scientists to bulb out ed, so after banking was done I teche dout DR just to found the final religion then teched out Lib and picked astronomy for freebie. Jao comes by and demands world map I give it to him and he goes to pleased so after that were able to trade some resources.

The other continent seem to be two religion block half christian and half tao. Shaka already made willy the orangeman his "starts with b and rhymes with witch" (I guess syracuse orangemen not all THAT tuff hehe :P) and then he started going after Joa. After he took one of Jaos cities I decided I did NOT want shaka capping everybody on his continent so I traded gunpoweder to jao for 400 gold and that seemed to stop shaka from taking anymore cities. And thats been it for trades.

I got music first and used artist for one ga and then got taj done for another although I got beat to MoM so they were just regular GA's not boosted ones. And thats bout it. Not sure which victory I have best shot at I need to build up all my new cities I made at last minute and then see where to go from there.

here is my empire now:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/1546empire.jpg

It pretty filled already but there are some floodplains that are not in any other cities bfc so I am making one more settler to go build a city near em so they wont get wasted and after that I think that gonna be it for city founding.

demographics:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/1546demos.jpg

managing to do good in most categories but I need to boost my power up a lil bit.

The tech sitch:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/1546techsitch.jpg

Since nobody has anything in the will/wont trade columns I am gonna assume that means I have a tech lead. WHich is kinda since since right before this game I tried a monarch student game where I wa sbehind in tech for pretty much the WHOLE game so it nice to have a lead for a change hehe.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/1546top5.jpg

I also got 4 of top 5 city slots :). I dont have clean sweep cuz that little snot Jao been wonderwhoring (and NO I DONT wanna here anything about pots and kettles :P)

So thats it at this point. Pretty quiet game so far. After I get my cities settled I might try and go for dom win or I THINK I might have nice shot at latish culture win too and I havent had that victory in AGES so maybe I will try for that. We'll just need to see how things look once I get everything sorted out better.
Kaytie

@Kaytie:

managing to do good in most categories...
Uh, you think? You have 6x GDP of 2nd place, more than 2x prod and 2x food. This is a ridiculous overkill dominating victory. You should play a higher difficulty level :)

@Kaytie:


Uh, you think? You have 6x GDP of 2nd place, more than 2x prod and 2x food. This is a ridiculous overkill dominating victory. You should play a higher difficulty level :)

We have been saying that to her for ages, but she won't listen :p

Hi

Aww I used to play at noble so I AM playing at higher diff level now :p at least give me chance to get used to prince b4 nagging again sheesh hehe :P

Kaytie

We have been saying that to her for ages, but she won't listen :p

I saw that when i was digging through those old NC games.
So this is her first try on Monarch? :goodjob:

I saw that when i was digging through those old NC games.
So this is her first try on Monarch? :goodjob:

Hi

No my only try at monarch was in the recent monarch school game with meh. I was able to get a win but it was nerve wracking and hard so I figured jumping to monarch when only like less than a week or so ago I was on noble was too quick so it better to go back to prince, a level I still havent played more than 5 games on before moving up to monarch permanatly.

Kaytie

Hi

No my only try at monarch was in the recent monarch school game with meh. I was able to get a win but it was nerve wracking and hard so I figured jumping to monarch when only like less than a week or so ago I was on noble was too quick so it better to go back to prince, a level I still havent played more than 5 games on before moving up to monarch permanatly.

Kaytie

I should have tried my first serious Monarch on the NC5 I just played last weekend. That was a too easy one for me on Prince. I opened this game for a Monarch try, the opening was not good, I forgot the CRE feature! So pissed, I'd have settled right in the face of Sury otherwise... Scouting was poor, too. I missed the horse and went to the wrong directly even after meeting both neighboring AIs. I might just replay the game after the turn I popped BW as a discount for myself. :blush: Anyway, won't have much time anytime soon since the 2 week trip is coming :(

Emperor/Normal to 1 AD

Just blocked off as much land as i could. Put crappy city by horses for defense, no copper around. Need to finish courthouses before i expand anymore. Have 2 or 3 iron spots i can hook up - we all share religion too so army shouldn't be a problem. Already thinking there's enough land here until cuirassiers and cannons, then i'll get more.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0214.jpg

Went monarchy then code of laws instead of currency. Thought they would both help more - no early happiness, and a couple blocking cities way out west that really needed courthouses. Switching production to research will put enough beakers into currency so i can switch to 100% in a few turns and grab it.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0215.jpg

to 1470 AD

Just started cottaging everything. Built parthenon, great library, missed UoS by 1 turn. Maybe built another wonder, not sure. Got liberalism around 1100 AD. I could have delayed it but not having met the other continent yet i was worried about losing it. Also wanted to grab nationalism quick to start on the taj since i had no marble. Started the 1 GP golden age with 10 turns left for taj knocking it down to 8 which was perfect. Built my universities and put oxford up in memphis. First time in awhile it hasn't gone in the capital. Goal is get cuirassiers and trebs to take one of these guys out, so i go for military tradition and gunpowder. Here's tech at 1400.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0216.jpg

Start building an army - they aren't going for military techs, and are both friendly with me so i'm not in a huge hurry.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0217.jpg

Here's what tech looks like at 1470. The other continent is behind us - i could have delayed lib a lot. Thought about getting astronomy and attacking a backwards AI - but i have cannons/cuirassiers vs longbows/knights on my continent. Also most of the wonders are over here so i'd like to grab those. Sury has apostolic palace, but gilg is the leader currently. Sury is finishing democracy next turn - and i'll bet he goes for corporation or astronomy instead of MT or Gunpowder. He must be assuming i don't declare at friendly... Can probably attack him in 20 turns or so, and take 3 or 4 cities fast. Then i can get some techs for peace and finish him off later.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0219.jpg

Gilg just went islam - so he's down to pleased. I'll probably still attack Sury first - i can go free religion now if i want, and also possibly bribe gilg into the war now that they are different religions. Need to built up more army soon and get ready to attack. I have 3 or 4 decent production cities (no heroic epic though) since i have 5 hammer workshops now. The only one close to me in tech is Sury, and i will eliminate or vassal him shortly so this game should be pretty easy.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0220.jpg

Emperor Epic
500AD – 1927AD
Culture Victory



Round starts finishing off Gilgamesh. He is kind enough to settle the wheat/fish city to the west first though it takes an eternity of waiting for it to grow to size 2. He won’t give up any more techs for peace so his time runs out once this finally happens. Also this War Chariot is kind of a big deal among his buddies and also happens to be the first one I ever produced. We go way back.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/FinishHim.jpg


745AD Thebes produces a GP, which is sadly a huge deal as at 0% research I’m still losing 15gpt, though one turn later comes currency! The timely development of paper money in 760AD propels Egypt into the green.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Currency.jpg


880AD brings with it the construction of the Parthenon. Yes, in 880AD. The other continent is still streaming out GG’s at an alarming rate.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/880ADParthenon.jpg


Meanwhile a century later Uruk finally finishes the Forbidden Palace and I can finally move any slider above the 0-30% range.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Finally.jpg


This event is merely to illustrate just how silly the tech rate has been in this game for me, and by silly I mean pathetically slow as I wait for cottages to mature. 1070AD and I still do not have Metal Casting. Not that awful until you consider the game opening was war and therefore inefficient in terms of hammers and that Thebes would have alone put one to amazing use.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/1070ADnoMC.jpg


Lots of unremarkable stuff happens in here. Barb cities captured as the economy recovers. National Wonders built along with the AW. Another Great Spy is shelved in the former Khmer capital (late game GA’s is all they’re good for). Techs that are normally researched 100-150 turns earlier are highly sought after. You get the point. Finally have an outside contact and what I already knew is made abundantly clear. We’re behind in tech and WAY ahead in land/pop.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Behind.jpg


Decide to beeline Nationalism to try for the Taj Mahal with marble and a couple strong hammer cities, but Joao beats me to it. Not important enough to waste a GSpy on a golden age, but it would have been nice. In order to boost the economy and happiness of the continent I begin to aggressively spread the three religions present. Also finally build this thing-

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/KongMiao.jpg


Around 1500ish I decide to go culture since I want to be massively lazy. Joao has a number of high culture cities, but I’m quite confident by not being a retarded AI I’ll be able to out race him to 3 legendary cities. Well I build a ton of temples and construct the Jewish/Confucius/Hindu 50% culture building in my 3 decided culture cities; Uruk is also set up as a Great Artist farm. I always feel dirty doing this. Anywho shortly after beginning to do this I get this event.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/ReallyIcandothat.jpg

Really that is an event? I can get a free Great Artist to do whatever I want with? As useless as they normally are that’s still a culture boost to a border city or something. Even a “useless” great person is really powerful when you do not have to wait for the type you actually were trying to generate. A really strong event I never knew existed.

1605AD – I decide to go after Liberalism in order to get Free Speech since it is just kind of nice to have when going for a culture victory. I was not paying attention and did not realize that uh… well… In 1605AD this happens

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/1605LibRaceOver.jpg


So, Joao is by far and away the tech leader in the game and misrepresented the other continent’s tech pace just a tad. As all the cottages mature and now with FS and taking Printing Press, Egypt is actually going to emerge as a tech power. Shortly thereafter, obviously sore over losing the race to Liberalism, pleased Joao decides to declare war. This could be game over. I still only have my War Chariot army and now Axeman Medic as an army, and they are spread out over the entire continent to garrison cities against angry people. A massive stack of whatever his unique unit is called and a smattering of other boats show up off my coast a few turns later. Game over?

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/JoaosMace.jpg

He unloads two maces. One actually dies to a veteran WC as they attack amphibiously. The second is mopped up by a couple closer WC’s. A few turns later I give Joao 500 gold and we are back to being good friends. What a guy.

Nothing of consequence happens from here on out. I switch research exclusively to culture, swap into Rep/FS/Caste/Merc/FR, generate Great Artists, finally burn some saved up great people on golden ages, and in 1927 win via culture. Stupid thing is I probably could have built a spaceship sooner than this. Had very strong production in a handful of cities and with all the cottages planted down around 1000AD now well mature my tech rate would have been amazing if it were not all being converted to culture. Bleh.

The 3 cities.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Thebes.jpg
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Yasosadflkjasd.jpg
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Memphis.jpg


The first four lines under units of this stats sheet would under any “normal circumstances” mean I lost and really freaking early too.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/lanskyj13/Amusement.jpg



Tempesta -
Knowing what I know now:

"Got liberalism around 1100 AD. I could have delayed it but not having met the other continent yet i was worried about losing it."


I found that one really funny as it looks like your game had a similar "other" continent tech rate.

I'm kinda bogged down in my "Earth 18 Isabella" conquest-fest, but if I put this off until I finish that one everyone may have moved on to NC 45 or something...

I'll do Noble/Epic and try Fishing > Mining > BW > Pottery before anything else -- likely AH next. I see from some quickly-skimmed non-spoilered stuff that I may have some neighbours killable with war chariots -- yet another reason to try this now instead of getting even more tired of warmongering in my other game.

@lansky

I bet i could have waited until after 1600 to get liberalism too. I usually don't like delaying it, even if i've met all the AI's. For one, it's nice to just get nationalism and the lib civics right away, and start on the taj. Second (and most important) reason is i hate having to check the tech screen every turn to see if anyone has education yet. That gets annoying after like 3 turns and i just say screw it, and finish lib. Also annoying when i stop checking the tech screen, then an AI gets lib since i'm not paying attention. Much easier just to get it.

Parthenon was the same in my game as yours - it was really late when i noticed it was available and i could build it in 10 turns. Same with great library. I wasn't planning on building any wonders, but no one was getting them. That other continent must be really set up to not like each other.

Your game was definitely pretty strange. Amazing that you won lib and didn't build any units after chariots. Going culture was interesting too - probably would have been much faster to just build the ship, or vassal a couple of them, but i know that gets tedious when the game is won by so much. I've still never won culture. Tried once but did a terrible job - wouldn't have won until like 1960, and an AI was going to beat me to it anyway so i quit.

To avoid having to go space or domination i think i'll just try and get my whole continent and go for a UN win. Should be able to use religion/civics to get the biggest AI to vote for me and just gift the UN techs to someone they don't like. Should be easy since they are all fighting each other, and i'll get mass media miles ahead of anyone else.

@lansky
How did you ever manage to get out of that tech hole? ( or did you at all?) I never seem to be able to pull myself out of a tech hole mainly because psychologically i just can't stand the AI having so many techs on me!:cry: BTW, great game, nice rushes!:D

@lansky
How did you ever manage to get out of that tech hole? ( or did you at all?) I never seem to be able to pull myself out of a tech hole mainly because psychologically i just can't stand the AI having so many techs on me!:cry: BTW, great game, nice rushes!:D


Well technically since the only AI's I knew when I was in a huge hole at the start were gone I was the tech leader :goodjob:

For your actual point getting out of a hole that deep it just takes time. In this game I slowly grew cities and whipped in infrastructure. Key buildings were obviously courthouses for the maintenance reduction/opening up Forbidden Palace and granaries for more whipping. I got some farms/mines down in production style cities and once currency was done I had them produce gold. Jungle/Riverside cities were covered in cottages and grown asap - Hereditary Rule was used for extra happiness as while the continent was littered with health resources happiness ones were a tad lacking. Other than that it was largely a waiting game to get the courthouses whipped, and then add in some libraries and what not. Being in a tech hole when you have your own landmass that was designed to support three civilizations with elbow room to spare is hardly an awful thing. The really key building here though is the Forbidden Palace. It means you build a number of courthouses which help a ton on their own and then the maintenance reduction on top of that is normally enough to get the tech rate moving again.

The fact that if I would have lost handily if any AI declared on me seriously was much more due to the fact that I neglected my army really really excessively than the tech disadvantage. However, if I had not seen all the great generals being born over there I probably would not have attacked Gilgamesh so early. Knowing the other continent is fighting and therefore slower to tech as well helps out.

Oh and I did get out of the hole. In retrospect a spaceship would have been a much faster way to win. Having an entire continent worth of land is an amazing thing. I was making around 100gpt just from selling excess resources off to the other AIs and could have made more if they had more to offer.


Tempesta -
Yeah, I would never delay it that aggressively on purpose. Sadly when I got around to it was in my pretty standard progression. :lol:

Hey all:

I'm not going to have a summary up for some time because my laptop's video card (I'm pretty sure that's what it is, since it beeps long once then quickly twice and it's a HP) is either in need of unplug/replug or more likely replacement :(.

I did put civ on this desktop a while back...it runs painfully slowly. I'm doubtful I will tolerate playing full games on it, but I can still make maps and such so it shouldn't impact this series in any other way than no TMIT spoilers for a while :p. I'll try to get my laptop going ASAP though (I use it for school too...).

As for climbing out of a tech hole, you want :hammers: converter techs ---> alphabet or currency (preferably currency). That can get you to any needed early tech like CoL/Currency/Monarchy/etc. If you have nearby AIs you can bulb/trade. If not, you have a lot of cities and can climb out. Prioritize techs the AIs don't have and trade them. Eventually you'll catch up and if you have enough cities take the lead.

Working/growing at least a bureaucracy cottage capitol can be useful as well.

Noble, Epic, to 600 BC.After puttering around and restarting a couple of times I decided to ignore the tempting stone because I'd failed to get either stonehenge or the pyramids. I decided to try something different.

Tech path: fishing > mining > BW > pottery > writing > AH, whereupon I chopped a settler to build Memphis next to the horses to the west. I decided to try for the Oracle so next was mysticism > meditation > priesthood. I figured that, since in other games I'd always gone for metal casting, code of laws, or civil service, I'd try Feudalism this time -- which in addition to longbows would give me Vassalage for the extra unit experience.

Along the way I picked up the Chariot quest, which gives you Combat 1 for all chariots. So I hurriedly build 8 chariots, delaying Monarchy until then so I didn't enter the Classical era and fail the quest. As of 600 BC I just finished the Feudalism slingshot and am 3 turns from Code of Laws.

Here's my attempt at a dotmap.http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/NC/23%20Hatty/NC23Hattydotmap600BC.jpgCyan might be a decent production city, with Red as a possible 4th; I could chop a settler for one of them before too long -- but I wonder if I dare take those 8 chariots and however many more I can build quickly and try to take out a neighbour? The initial 8 aren't as strong as the next few will be, but with my 2 cities producing the ones that get Combat I plus 5 XP I get another one every 2-3 turns. My scout says Eridu has 1 protective archer and 1 warrior; I imagine Uruk has more. So, should I go for it? I'm kind of chicken about starting wars.I expect to read everyone else' Checkpoint 1 tomorrow.

Noble/Normal 1000 BC to 600 AD:

I left off expanding toward Sury in the south and debating whether to continue peaceful expansion or try a late WC rush. Lansky's comments were one factor convincing me to go for the late rush. The other was a scouting WC that found Sury's cities protected at most by 2 archers and no metal hooked up.

I ended the last round starting to tech toward Mathematics (and Construction). Because my economy and happiness were becoming issues, I started the round switching to the Meditation > Priesthood > Monarchy path, hoping Gilgamesh would spread Buddhism to me, and to take a shot at The Oracle (to go for CoL).

Shortly after I declared war on Sury I got confirmation that this was the correct course of action:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

This also made me reconsider going after Gilgamesh when I was done with Sury. During the war, I had almost completed the Oracle in Thebes, when someone beat me to it and founded Confucianism. Fortunately for me, that AI was Sury (in another inexplicable AI decision). I greatly need the influx of cash at that point, and I promptly captured the Confucian holy city. By 275 BC the Khmer civilization was no more.

After a brief pause to build up infrastructure and more WCs I scouted Gil's territory:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

...and started a second WC rush (in 225 AD). By 600 AD the Sumerian empire is down to a single city, which my stack should eliminate shortly. Using nothing by WCs, I have captured 5 cities (including 2 holy cities) and razed 4. I built 43 WCs and lost 21 (so far). My economy and research were aided by a failed attempt at the Great Lighthouse, and a successful attempt at the Pyramids (in Thebes). I captured the Great Wall from Sury, and the Hanging Gardens from Gil. I spawned two Great Prophets. One I settled in Thebes, the other is on his way to construct a shrine.

After Monarchy (and switching to HR), I went back to Mathematics for Currency and CoL, and then Calendar. I am not quite sure what the optimal tech path is at this point. I am currently researching Aesthetics, to go for Literature and the Great Library. I still haven't teched Alphabet. I was wondering if at this point I should prioritize Compass and Optics to find the other civs. My next GP is in 17 turns, and is likely to be another Prophet. Also, someone founded Taoism, so I'm not sure if the Liberalism race is winnable at this point.

Here's where I stand at this point:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

The economy is bad!

Were you adjusting your tie and waiting for the band to play you a little tune?

Okay, lame joke that only Tonight Show fans will get...but I had to do it.

On a more serious note, I have been away from both the game and the forum for a month, but this weekend I'll give this one a shot as I watch all the good elite 8 action in the ncaa tournament. My alma-mater Mizzou pulled off the upset over Memphis last night, woohoo! You're next UConn!

Looks like early priests to go along with that production capital (will get moved later) might make for a powerhouse of a hammer city later on. Now the question is, do I build "stuff" there, or troops? :goodjob: WE shall see!

@Trystero


I like your game. And I suggest abandon GL race and beeline Optics. Use caravels to make contact with the other continent and exchange for other techs you are missing. On this level, AI should not win the lib race at all if you can get out of the loneliness quick enough. Put more scientists on food rich city with the Mids aided REP, you should get 100+ beaker with ease. If you are quick enough, you should be able to use Treb/Maceman army to rush the other continent into dusts. Don't forget stirring some wars there once you made contact and before your galleons are available. Happy conquering

@Amao:

Thanks! :) I am running Rep (from Mids) for the research bonus (Except for hut pops, I've pretty much self-researched everything. But, I'm pretty sure that's going to be true for everyone on this map.), and I am building libraries and monasteries to further boost my beakers. I need to get a good science city up and running. I've only recently (when I moved up to Noble) started making effective use of specialists. I ran a SE game with Ramesses, after reading futurehermit's thread, and was amazed at the results.

I agree that prioritizing Optics to find out what is going on in the rest of the world seems like the best course of action (then Alphabet?). Thanks again for your input!

@Trystero


You don't have alphabet? :confused: Then trade it. :) Anyway, alphabet and currency are very important for SE as I learnt from Crusher1.

Side note, do have a couple cottage cities online, that fill support your further expansion. and fill in all the good site on your continent. The northern tip also seem to have some reachable islands there, build a city or two and see if your other cities' trade route have any changes.

@Amao

I think this is the latest I've gone without picking up Alphabet. I got Currency via Mathematics. My immediate problems were gold and happiness, so I thought I would go that way (so Calendar was also available). Also, at that point I had wiped out Sury, so I assumed Gilly wouldn't tech trade with me (he would need to be in contact with at least one other civ, is that right?), so I didn't see the need to pursue it immediately. I also thought Aesthetics might be good trade bait for it when I meet the other civs.

Anyway, alphabet and currency are very important for SE as I learnt from Crusher1.

By this do you mean it is advantageous to use a SE-powered tech lead to trade and back-fill for your missing techs?

Edit: Ah, you meant I could build research. I get it :hammer2:

Were you adjusting your tie and waiting for the band to play you a little tune?

Okay, lame joke that only Tonight Show fans will get...but I had to do it.

On a more serious note, I have been away from both the game and the forum for a month, but this weekend I'll give this one a shot as I watch all the good elite 8 action in the ncaa tournament. My alma-mater Mizzou pulled off the upset over Memphis last night, woohoo! You're next UConn!

Looks like early priests to go along with that production capital (will get moved later) might make for a powerhouse of a hammer city later on. Now the question is, do I build "stuff" there, or troops? :goodjob: WE shall see!

I demand my laptop be fixed as an apology. Use magic powers. Now.

I demand my laptop be fixed as an apology. Use magic powers. Now.

nerds like me have more than one pcs capable running civ4/bts all the time. :D
but it's really a loss considering how many games you could have played otherwise. ;)

Commentary after reading other peoples' early posts. This is all about warmongering:

@GGS:I notice started attacking with WCs (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7905444&postcount=25) much sooner than I am about to (1150-975 BC for you, later than 600 BC for me). So, some questions:

When did you settle near the horses? I founded Memphis in 1800 and wonder if your earlier war was because you got horses sooner than I did.
How many chariots did you attack with? and was that 2nd date the end of both opposing civs?
How many WCs should I need to overcome a couple of protective archers?

@Lansky and GGS:Looks like you both went for Surya first; presumably the promotions helped against Gilgamesh, but might it have been easier to take Giggles out first earlier when he had fewer cities and fewer archers?@KaytieKatWow! looks like you offed both neighbours before the rest of us even got started!I may have waited to long to attack anybody:Though perhaps Surya's power is inflated because of the GW.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/NC/23%20Hatty/NC23Hattypower600BC.jpg

Checkpoint 2 - 1010 AD Noble/Epic


I managed to recover my economy I think, right now the slider is about 50% and making profit. I am building new cities and the Forbidden palace just became available. Still no religion!!! The AI got the Code of Laws one turn before I did :mad:. The I saw Philosophy and Theology got researched. I am assuming someone is racing to Lib, so thats what I am trying to do myself.

Here the screenshots of my land the and cities.
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii348/MStumm/Nobles%20Club%20XXIII/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

Commentary after reading other peoples' early posts. This is all about warmongering:
@Lansky and GGS:Looks like you both went for Surya first; presumably the promotions helped against Gilgamesh, but might it have been easier to take Giggles out first earlier when he had fewer cities and fewer archers?


It was more the spears than the archers that gave me headaches and Sury would have had those shortly as well. Knowing now that Gilgamesh started with stone on top of protective I may have gone after him first. Watching walls get whipped in was annoying to say the least. Sury had the nicer temple/wonders at the time though so maybe I would have still taken him out. Can see ups and downs to targeting either guy first.

@Trystero

Just saw your post. Don't know why i missed it earlier. :confused: Anyway, i meant to rush to optics so that you can meet other civs and trade alphabet if you really want to rush the other continent in early mid-age. Calendar may worth the detour because it will help you to lift the happy cap to 10-12 w/o HR. Anyway, maybe too late as you may already get to the other continent.

You Great Scientist can help you pop compass/optics/astro if you don't have CS yet. While building caravel scout team, keep working on Astro.

Once you make contact. You should look for a maceman/treb rush possibility on any weak guys there. otherwise, beeline steel and crush everybody. Once you achieve a military tech lead, turn off the rearch to finance your upgrade and mobolize to build a load of units. Once the initial attack force is done, you may want to turn on research again, but still leave many cities (except the GP farms and settler/worker pumps) dedicated to build military and ships non-stop until you win.

Hope you meet the other AIs early :cool:

Hi

Prince, Marathon, 1883 AD Culture win.

Since I had 3 cities doing pretty good culture wise I decided to try a culture win. I hadnt done one in ages and TMiT already said accuse dme of liking war so I figured doing a peaceful victory will stop me from getting a warmonger rep and back to the sweet peace loving leader I am :D (yeah it MIGHT be true that killing off my neighbors t get continent to myself might not be TECHNICALLY peaceful but that was in the BC's by game time THOUSANDS of years ago so it doesnt count :p )

That WAS the plan but then Salad sails in with a navy and DOW's on me. After dealing with his invasion I send what troops I had that were built SOLELY for peacekeeping purposes over to politely let him know:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/marinestack.jpg

Thats it is RUDE to pick on girls ESPECIALLY when they are being PEACEFUL dang it!!! grrrrr.

Anyways after taking a cpl of his cities he finally saw erros of his ways and we made a mutual agreement that he stop picking on me, he vassalizes to me, gives me all his gold, 10 gold per turn, one of his cities, all his metals, all his seafood, all his happy resources, all his health resources, and his horseys just cuz I wanted em and in exchange I let him keep breathing --seemed like win/win deal for all parties involved :D

And after Salad caps his vassal willie the orange follows suit and we back in to peaceful coexistance and then it just a matter of waiting long enough until:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/vicnotice.jpg

See? nice peaceful win :)

Here are final graphs:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finalgraphs.jpg

And demos:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finaldemos.jpg

The gnp is a little skewed cuz cultture slider was at 100% then which pads the gnp stats a lil bit. it wasnt all THAT lopsided as it looks.

And it all adds up to:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finalrank.jpg

Not too bad a score I dont think :)

I even manged a clean sweep of top 5 cities, going 100% on culture let me push lisbon out.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finaltop5.jpg

My main empire at the end:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finalempire.jpg

And my cities:

My cap:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finalthebes.jpg

As what seems like usual for me my cap ended up being my main science city.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finalyas.jpg

Dont even ask me to TRY and pronounce this thing but it was my top hammer city and was the first of the big 3 to go legendary

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finalngor.jpg

:sigh: seems like I cant get away with and angor thingy city ending up in my empire no matter WHAT I do hehe. But at least this time it wasnt that annoying wonder that make all the cities put specialists as priests instead of engineers. I know I KNOW angor whatchathingy really nice for priest economy and egypt PERFECT civ for that kind of economy but I still like engineers better and it STILL annoying so I didnt build just on principle hehe :P But anyways this angor city truned out to be nice money city with 2 shrines and 2 corp HQ's.

And while it wasnt one of the top 3 legendary:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll203/KaytieKat91/civalbum2/NChattie/finaluruk.jpg

Uruk missed out by just a few turns and was a pretty spiffy city in its own right I think.


Well thats it for this game a nice peaceful win Thanks TMiT and everybody else and see you all next game :)
Kaytie

My first Monarch/Normal game to 850BC. 2nd try, the first try saves were lost. :confused:


Knowing all the resources is cheating. I settle my 2nd city to the horse site. And quickly connects the inter-city road and the horse asap. Then both cities simply build WC, WC, and more WC. Actually, it's not a lot by many standard, just enough I say.

Before that I was already in war with Sury, I stoled his worker and watched over the lake to see his warrior count rose from 1 to 4. Where were his archers? :crazyeye: That's good news. I signed peace because i couldn't do anything with my lone warrior. And my WC was still being built.

After I have 5 WC, and more is still being built and chopped, I move them back to Sury's country and here is the screenshot. Where were the other 3 warriors??? Anyway, Sury mananged to rush a archer out and send back a warrior the next turn, but that's not enough! I lost 1 WC and took the city. And found he had a Chariot just outside the city. I put my healthy WC in the city to make sure the city hold and killed the lone Chariot the next turn, and went on the sack the last city and debating, i took the city decided not to build my 2nd settler for a while.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208529&stc=1&d=1238226623

BTW, since I've already got alphabet before I dow. I changed 2 techs with Gilg before I sent Sury away. Then after a few turns of resting. My WC army headed west to Gilg's land. It's a little late, the PRO archer was online. However, no archer was in Eridu, So I sneak attacked and took the city. Then looted his capital pillaging everything in sight, especially the yummy cottages, which financed my broken economy at the right time. after it's appearant there is nothing i can gain, i sack and leveled his 3rd city and issued peace. Of course, there is 2 techs to take. :D

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208530&stc=1&d=1238226717

So, now at 850BC, I have 5 cities. On the edge of broke. But I'm only 5 turns away from Currency and I'm building GLH at capital so that I could get some more coastal cities with little cost. I think I'm doing fine. Oh, Did I mention I popped maths? :lol: This game so far is more like my Prince games. Is this really Monarch? :rolleyes:

One more note, I haven't rushed a single building/unit yet, I'm not even in slavery! The CRE library is so cheap...

Monarch/Normal 250BC and questions


Very non-eventful since last update. I've got Literature and planned to build GL after the settler. There was a barb uprising a few turns ago destroyed one of my Chariots, a pig and a mine. I'm rebuilding my military, especially the axes in responding to the roaming barb spearmen threat. I've got Calendar and connected both Incense and Spice asap. But here is my dilemma, what should i do now? Should I add more cities and connect the Gems/Dyes? or should I get drama first to lift my happy cap further before I tech lower lines? Or should I get Monarchy? Also, Eridu is a Jewish holy city, should I utilize it?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208531&stc=1&d=1238229669

Kaytie:

Well, it was a close-run thing, but it looks like you just squeaked over the line :lol:


Now play Emperor dammit! ;)

@ dalamb A response to your four questions of March 27.

1. Memphis was founded in 2475 at cost in build order, units and the two barracks over other things.
2. The Khmer War was declared with six flanking war chariots and three on the way to the front. In the Sumerian case the numbers were six and seven. Both civs were history in 975BC.
3. The are excellent stategy articles on this subject and community members with grand knowledge; my rule of thumb is check the roll-over and bring twice plus one if circumstances allow. I built 20 war chariots when as few as 14 might have done the job.
4. The Khmers, in my situation, first for two reasons. The Great Wall for the barbarians and an early golden age. Two workers were steal-able.

1470 - 1936 (space victory)

I attack Sury during the mid 1500's. Takes way longer than i'd like it to (always does). Just waiting for movement/healing makes this war take a long time. He just builds the statue of liberty and i take it from him.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0221.jpg

Then crazy Shaka invades me. Here is his impressive stack that he lands.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0222.jpg

3 units? At least he knows enough to go for my capital. He actually captures a city or two later with better attacks, but nothing i can't take back as soon as i can send a few units.

Here, in 1750, Sury is finally gone. So it was about a 150-200 year war. Takes forever when i don't want to accept capitulation. In retrospect i should have done this much differently - but we'll get to that later...

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0223.jpg

I wait 58 years (for infantry) and attack Gilg. I'm going with two stacks, here is what one looks like.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0224.jpg

Here is 1824 tech - i have a pretty good lead.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0225.jpg

Now i figure i'll go for a UN win with Saladin's vote. He was friendly with me without sharing religion (i went to theocracy). I had to get -4 penalty from him to give the techs to shaka. But in 1842 mass media is his and i hope he builds it soon. I'm at +8 with Saladin now, but he's at war with the Shaka/Willem team, so i can easily take a city from Willem in order to allow a conversion to Hinduism. That will guarantee his vote and the win. Will wait until the UN is built and go for it.

1852 Gilb is gone - except those 2 cities up north. Which i take care of soon after.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0227.jpg

Could easily go for domination but i still am counting on the UN.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0229.jpg

Here's where everything fell apart - i gave Shaka the techs in 1842, he built some wonders with it but not the UN. Now it's 1908 and Joao builds it, who happens to be friendly with Saladin (and his vassal). I still win secretary, but can't use it for victory. I pass free religion, currency and something else.

I could have just given him the techs back in 1842... Then i wouldn't have gotten the -4 penalty with Saladin. I was friendly with him, and i'm not sure if Joao was back then or not but at least i could have had a chance to win. OH well. Attacking and capitulating shaka/willem would have won the game too, and would have been VERY quick and easy. Didn't do it cause i was counting on him building the UN for me. Way to screw everything up shaka. OH well. Built the spaceship instead. Sal finishes up conquering his continent.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0231.jpg

Land in 1936 for the win.

http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu160/tempesta1313/Civ4ScreenShot0232.jpg

1605 AD debriefing.

There is a question of curiousity at the end of the first paragraph.
We have military and religious conflict off-shore. Has to be good. Liberalism was discovered in 1455 and Egypt took printing press over astronomy. This was a tough choice between a bit more cottage cash and sooner to appear boyos with serious guns vs. a better navy with Willem and Joao II on the planet. Was there an obvious choice?

The tech path wandered a bit, the SE Khmer city got Islam in 1350, Thebes built the university on Sankore in 1465 and in 1520 economics provided another great merchant. The grand annoyance of this period was the 14th century event that brought the Four Barbarian Horse Archers of the Apocalypse to the Southern borders of Thebes before settlement of that nice looking river/cottage locale could be realized - it takes awhile to commission four steady spearmen to be certain. In 1605 "aefwaen" describes the State of the Egyptian Empire. Awash in cash, the modest tech-leader, 1st in land, 2nd in population, 5th in soldiers. Culture is strong but spread in several cities so the main chance is currently ordered - domination, UN, conquest.

Cities or soldiers? With the other continent fully-developed can it stay pre-occupied? I'd like to go from the current ten cities to perhaps 16 before someone opts for distant bloodshed. A fine balance, I suspect.

Noble/Normal: 600 AD to 1210 AD:

BTW, if I list my reasoning, it is not because I think that reasoning is correct necessarily, but in the hope that someone will correct it, if I am misguided ;)

I started the round finishing off Gilgamesh's last city by 680 AD. I now had the entire continent (with the exception of one barb city in the north) to myself. I used the Great Prophet that spawned at the end the last round to build the Confucian shrine. My goals for this round were:

1. build up infrastructure: improve and connect resources, build libraries and monasteries to get my research going, and spread Confucianism (and Buddhism if I spawned a prophet for its shrine)

2. beeline Optics to build caravels and find the other targets, err... civs :mischief:

3. build the Great Library, if possible, to aid...

4. win the Liberalism race. My intention here was to grab Astronomy (for Galleons and overseas trading) as the free tech.

Tech wise, to start I finished up Aesthetics to use as possible trade bait (and it's on the way to Literature and the GL). Then, as Amao suggested I beelined Optics (Compass > MC > Machinery > Opt.) by 980 AD and sent out caravals. I picked up Alphabet (to further aid research), and Literature, and started toward Liberalism. Along the way I switched to Bureaucracy and Caste System/Pacifism (to really push research). I got a GS to help research Education and won the Liberalism race to grab Astronomy as planned.

I managed to build the Great Library (in 1130 AD :eek:) and the Parthenon (even later). Also, although it wasn't a priority, I picked up the Shwedagon Paya. I figured that if I could get it, it would help maximally leverage the Spiritual trait.

As the round ended I discovered the other land mass containing Shaka, Saladin, and an NCAA tournament participant :lol:. I am also about to win the circumnavigation bonus. Here is how things stand at the moment:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

My military has dropped significantly, largely because I didn't build any this round. I just spawned a GS who I can use to help research Printing Press. I am leaning for overseas invasion. I don't have many good production cities on the coasts, so it may take a while to build up my invasion fleet. I am going to tech toward Steel, and Military Science and go for a Grenadier/Cannon/Knights invasion force. Or should I go with Macemen/Trebs/Knights/Crossbows?

Also, William of Syracuse will give me this deal, which I am inclined to take:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

@ Amao:

Has the shrine been built in Eridu? Have you adopted Judaism? Spreading religion and building temples might be the quickest way to deal with happiness issues, or have you already done that?

@ MStumm:

Since you are running all those scientists and have an academy in Yasodawhatsitcalled, wouldn't it be better to build research there (for the Liberalism race) rather than a Settler?

@ Amao:

Has the shrine been built in Eridu? Have you adopted Judaism? Spreading religion and building temples might be the quickest way to deal with happiness issues, or have you already done that?


@Trystero


Eridu is not connected to the rest of the city trade network yet. I had acquired no Great Wall. So the barb uprising was a prblem. And I also thought that the cheap temples were not very useful unless I got AP which is not in my immediate plan anywhere. I'd rather go for Drama/Music, it's more scalable than temple when I'm in deep war weariness whole. BTW, I don't have Meditation yet. Can't spread the religion manually for now. :crazyeye: In any case, I'm out on my trip and won't be able to continue this game in two weeks since I forgot to bring the save file. :mad:

@ MStumm:

Since you are running all those scientists and have an academy in Yasodawhatsitcalled, wouldn't it be better to build research there (for the Liberalism race) rather than a Settler?

Do the science multipliers still apply if the research is actually being built? I thought it only applied to research from commerce and specialists.

Unfortunately I can't play this game anymore:cry:. My video card is overheating and it'll be a while before I get a replacement fan:cry:

Noble / Marathon

Why Noble: I'm a Noble player. :)
Why Marathon: Hatty + Marathon speed = Hot War Chariot Action! :D Yes, I know that Marathon speed is unbalanced in favor of warmongering ... that's my goal here.

Founded Thebes in place, build was Worker First. Teched Fishing so I could get the seafood. After the Worker, Thebes built another warrior to help with the scouting. Speaking of scouting, I met the Khmer to the south. Hello, Rush Target #1!

After Fishing, research switched to Animal Husbandry. Let's find the horsies to pull out War Chariots! Thebes finished its warrior and started on a Work Boat. My scouting warriors popped some huts for: gold, gold, Hunting, and hostiles. I also found Sumer to the southeast. Rush Target #2, perhaps?

Skipping ahead a bit, I finished Animal Husbandry and discovered Horses to the west. Not a great city location, but I really want my War Chariots ASAP. So Memphis was founded pretty quickly, and then my two-city empire started non-stop production of War Chariots.

Before long, Five War Chariots headed south to spread some Egyptian love to the poor, lonely Khmer. One War Chariot was killed by a defending Archer, and then Yasodharapura became my newest city. Ooh, the Great Wall! Thanks, Sury! Also, Sury was so busy building his Wall that he never seemed to build any Settlers. Khmer go bye-bye. :cool:

Next stop: Sumer. Giggles has founded Hinduism in Uruk, so I'll have a steep uphill climb against his culture. I reinforced my stack up to seven War Chariots, and it was go-time. Thanks be to Sid that he didn't have any Copper! Vultures are No Fun, even for War Chariots. Sumerian Archers killed two War Chariots, and Uruk was mine. But there was a second Sumerian city, so I signed a quick peace treaty to allow for reinforcements. Hey, Uruk is not only the Hindu Holy City, but Giggles also built Stonehenge! Thanks, buddy!

Ten turns later, it's time to finish this contest. One more War Chariot is killed by a Sumerian Archer, and Eridu falls in 1410BC:
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/885/warchariotrushsuccess.jpg
I have a continent to myself. And thanks to Sury's Great Wall, I don't even need to worry about barbarians while I finish my expansion. But my economy is starting to suffer, so I hire two priests in Uruk to speed the arrival of a Great Prophet for the Hindu shrine.

In 1060BC, my Prophet arrives, and he builds the Hindu shrine in Uruk:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1714/builthindushrine.jpg
Sadly, Uruk is my only Hindu city, so I'm not really raking in the gold yet. That will change! Worker crews are hard at work to connect all of my cities with roads, and the Hindu faith will spread.

Egyptian wise men figure out Writing shortly afterward, and all of my cities start building Libraries. Shortly after 1000BC (Checkpoint 1, right?), someone wipes out the Dutch:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/918/willemdead.jpg
Yikes. :eek: I wonder who the other warmonger could be?

Now I'm in full-fledged peacenik / Builder mode. Yasod-whatever builds the Oracle in 500ish BC:
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2182/oraclebuilt.jpg
I choose Metal Casting to maximize beakers gained.

I send a couple of Settlers over to the western side of the continent. Heliopolis claims some Gems (my only pre-Calendar happiness resource!) and Iron. Elephantine claims some Dye and Pigs. I now have six cities, and my economy is really feeling the pain.

And just before the BC/AD rollover, Thebes builds some Big Pointy Rocks:
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2221/pyramidsbuilt.jpg
Of course, I'm swapping to Representation for the additional happiness and supercharged science.

And that's as far as I've played to date. I think I'm in a good position, but I'm a touch concerned by the demolition of the Dutch. There's a badguy out there somewhere, and the Egyptian people will need to remain vigilant!

Building wealth/research/culture applies hammer multipliers only to what's being built. Science multipliers only impact the percentage of commerce applied to :science:, and base :science: generated from buildings and specialists. Gold and culture function similarly.

Unfortunately, my video card COMPLETELY fried. With virtual memory I got my desktop taking over Civ duties somewhat, but I was deep into this one and don't feel like starting over as I was using it on monarch/quick to prep for SGOTM 9 anyway :P.

Building wealth/research/culture applies hammer multipliers only to what's being built. Science multipliers only impact the percentage of commerce applied to :science:, and base :science: generated from buildings and specialists. Gold and culture function similarly.

Ah, OK. Thanks for clearing that up, TMIT. I was really asking how the multipliers worked rather than making a suggestion :blush: Sorry if that was unclear MStumm :crazyeye:

Noble/Normal, 1210 AD to 1620:

I started where I left off, and completed the trade with Willem of Orange to back-fill techs needed for mounted units and seige weapons. I met Joao, the last unknown inhabitant of the neighboring continent. I decided to press my advantage (I had the tech lead) and go for a domination victory. To that end I beelined Steel for cannons, followed by Military Science for grenadiers. I debated going to war earlier using maces and trebs, but I needed time to build up my navy, and I was determined to use sufficient force to finish the war once I started it.

My likely targets were Saladin, who was already at annoyed due to my heathen ways, and Joao, who pissed me off by demanding tribute (which I refused, of course). I maintained good diplomatic relations with Willem and Shaka. I even joined Shaka in a fake war for a few turns against Joao (who still didn't have Optics, and thus couldn't reach me).

Once I reached my immediate tech goals, I switched civics to Police State, Vassalage and Theocracy and started mass producing cannon and grenadiers while teching toward Rifling. This was aided by a Taj Mahal-fueled Golden Age.

Where things stood at the end of the round:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

Finally, my forces were poised for war:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

Up next: World domination?

@Trystero


You are winning. Just build more Galleons than you think you need, and some privateers for both pillage and blockade your buddies. ;) Other than that, you should be able to knock down cities one by one, and check for capitulation option everytime you knock down a city which will save you some good time.

Continuing my Noble / Marathon game, from 20 BC to 980 AD....

(Warning: Serious Wonder-Pokemon ahead!)
I've had the whole continent to myself for a while, so let's indulge my inner Builder.

I'm desperately in need of Code of Laws to fix my maintenance costs. However, the religion still hasn't been founded, and I don't want to found it yet. First, I'd like to finish spreading Hinduism. (Is that a sign of OCD?)

Anyway, the AIs seem to be teching slowly (probably because Willem's dead), so I get away with it. Spam a few Hindu missionaries to finish converting my heathen Egyptians, and then I finish learning about the Laws. Buddhism founded in Yasod-whatever. (I always enable the Choose Religions feature.) The free Buddhist missionary runs to Uruk, because that city is most in need of the additional Temple/Monastery package. Courthouses are queued up all around the Egyptian Republic.

(Funny how I was in a representative government for over a thousand years before I managed to develop laws....)

The next research target is Civil Service, both for chain-irrigation and Bureaucracy. In fact, I plan to move the Palace to Uruk, because all of those cottaged flood plains will be even sweeter with a 50% bonus to commerce.

Barb Galleys are prowling up and down my coasts. But they never come near my seafood at Thebes, so I really don't care. One of these centuries, maybe I'll send a few triremes to satisfy my OCD urges.

Thebes finishes the Courthouse and starts to build an Aqueduct. Finishes the Aqueduct and starts on the Gardens. More people, a health bonus, and additional Engineer GPP in Thebes? Well, if you insist....

Uruk whips a Market to cash in on the Hindu shrine and all of the lovely cottaged flood plains. Uruk starts some Buddhist buildings to pacify the unruly citizens, who are growing tired of being whipped. Tough cookies! Hatty is a harsh mistress. :whipped:

In 565 AD, Thebes finishes the Hanging Gardens of ... um ... Thebes:
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6139/gardensbuiltinthebes.jpg
Nice hammer capital on this map, huh?

Meanwhile, Yasod-whatever starts spamming Buddhist missionaries to spread the faith. Might as well get extra shrine income whenever I can score my next Great Prophet, right?

Courthouses have cut my maintenance costs enough so that I'm thinking about expanding again. Memphis (my pony city to the west of Thebes, smack in the middle of the Great Plains of Egypt) starts work on a couple of Settlers. Yasod-whatever halts the missionary spam to crank out a few military units. Even with the Great Wall in place and the entire continent to myself, I still want a few defenders for my cities.

Egyptian wise men finally figure out how to organize a professional Civil Service that will assist Hatty in running the glorious Egyptian Republic. Huzzah! [party] The wise men start looking into the fine arts. Egypt is very productive, but we lack any higher sense of Aesthetics. (And I want to keep wonder-spamming!)

Uruk, blessed by both Stonehenge and the Hindu shrine, sees a Great Prophet begin his ministry. Abu Bakr hurries over to Yasod-whatever to build the Buddhist shrine.

Finished with infrastructure, Thebes commissions a pair of triremes. The Egyptian navy sets sail to defeat the annoying Barb galleys who have been prowling my southern coasts for the last millennium.

Memphis spits out a pair of Settlers for two more cities. One city snags some corn and dye to the north of Uruk, while the other city claims the flood plains to the south of Yasod-whatever. (Can you tell that I like flood plains?)

Egyptian wise men finally learn to appreciate fine art. I'd like to build the Parthenon, but I also need Polytheism! That's what comes from conquering holy cities instead of founding them myself: I forget the religious techs. I've spammed missionaries for two different religions, and I haven't enabled any of the religion civics yet! :crazyeye: Hatty slaps around the Hindu theologians in Uruk and tells them to get to work on the mysteries of Polytheism. :spank:

After some suitable discipline, the Hindu theologians read the Hindu holy books and discover that there could be multiple gods in the universe. They've been worshipping those gods for a few thousand years, but they never took the time to read about them. Unsatisfied with their mealy-mouthed answers, Hatty directs them to look into the mysteries of Monotheism. Since I'm in Builder mode anyway, let's unlock Organized Religion and get a +25% bonus to most of my building!

Yasod-whatever starts building the Parthenon. Should be quick with that lovely Marble....

The theologians finally figure out that there is only one god. Surprisingly, this doesn't change their Hindu and Buddhist ways. Next target is Literature, because Representation + Parthenon + Great Library is too yummy to ignore.

Uruk starts to work on a new Palace. Egypt's capital should be in the middle of the flood plains for historical accuracy, don'tchaknow! Meanwhile, before Thebes loses the Bureaucracy bonus to its hammer output, the current capital starts to work on the Statue of Zeus. I'm not going for the Statue because I want it really, but rather because I don't want my enemies to have it. Wonder denial! Fighting uphill against +100% War Weariness is too annoying for hieroglyphs....

The wise men unlock the secrets of Literature. Um, what secrets? Write stuff down and keep it on a bookshelf, right? Anyway, the Egyptian people finally figure out how to put our hieroglyphs into books, and the wise men start to chart the months and seasons of the year. Yes, I want Calendar to grab those extra resources. Yasod-whatever whips the Parthenon and starts work on the Great Library.

Uruk whips the Palace. Flood plains with villages + Bureaucracy = BIG boost to the Egyptian economy

Yasod-whatever whips the Great Library. Hatty gets hooked on the Twilight series....

Meanwhile, I have spotted Barbarian borders to the south of Pi-Ramesses (which is the flood plain city to the south of Yasod-whatever). Several spare War Chariots go to investigate, and they find Numidian. Numidian is a Barb city with walls, five archers, and a pair of axemen. Yikes! :eek: Neither Giggles nor Sury defended their capitals as fiercely as these Barbarians! The War Chariots pull back to the "safe" side of the Great Wall, and I make a mental note to learn Construction soon. Gonna need some siege weapons to crack those walls!

Find Hittite to the west of Numidian, and run it over with my War Chariots. The economy is strong, so I keep it.

The ruins of Eridu contain ancient writings about Machinery? How ... odd. Anyway, the wise men finish Calendar and begin to research those ancient Machines. Worker gangs start to build Plantations all over the place. Let's hear it for raising the happy cap!

Thebes finishes the Statue of Zeus and begins work on the Heroic Epic. Isolation won't last forever, and I know there's at least one warmonger out there somewhere. Be prepared! The Heroic Epic finishes quickly, and Thebes starts some War Chariot spam. Even with siege weapons, I'll need some troops to clean out Numidian, and the Chariots are cheap.

The knowledge contained within the Great Library inspires one of Yasod-whatever's citizens to distinguish himself as a Great Scientist. Andrei Sakharov hikes over to Uruk in order to build a Bureaucademy! Flood plains with villages + Bureaucracy + Academy = RIDICULOUS boost to Egypt's research

Yasod-whatever begins to build the Mausoleum of Maussollos ... just because I can.

Uruk begins to build Chicken Itch ... just because I can. As a cottage city, Uruk doesn't have a lot of hammers, so I don't expect to get this wonder. And that's okay, because it isn't much of a wonder. I'm really looking for the failure cash.

Egyptian wise men learn about Music, and one of them becomes a Great Artist. After getting a negative critique from Simon, Ling Lun decides to settle in Uruk. He might not have won Egyptian Idol, but he will contribute a lot of culture to the city. And the extra gold is always welcome, as is the Representation-enhanced science.

After Egypt goes Music-crazy, some bright person asks why we're still writing with pictures. Much embarrassed, the wise men begin to research Alphabet....

(What, no Alphabet in 980 AD? Well, I killed all of my tech-trading partners, so it really didn't seem like a priority.)
Next steps: I plan to head for Optics, crank out some Caravels, and find the other continents. Then Liberalism. I'm sure that I have a winning game in hand, but I'll continue playing to determine exactly how I'll win. Anyway, this game is a lot of fun, so why not keep going? :D

Continuing Noble / Marathon from 980 AD to 1220 AD....

More Wonder-Pokemon follows:
Egyptian wise guys learn about letters. Now we can write without pictures! Yay! :goodjob:

I got a note about Taoism being founded in a distant land, and I see that Theology doesn't found a religion now. So one of the AIs clearly has the tech. Now I need to worry about the Apostolic Palace. So the Hindu theologians gather for a conclave to determine exactly how this whole "Theology" thing is supposed to work.

Meanwhile, Memphis (pony city) begins working on the Sistine Chapel. I'm thinking about a Cultural win, so I want to be prepared. Other cities start training macemen for the assault on Numidian.

In 1055 AD, the Hindu theologians have decided that they want to keep their cushy jobs, so they develop an intricate knowledge of Theology. To celebrate their achievement, Yasod-whatever holds a grand unveiling of the Mausoleum of Maussollos.

The Egyptian wise men get to work on the secrets of Construction. Sure, we've already built a lot of cool buildings in Egypt ... but that apparently wasn't Construction. Perhaps they were all pre-fab granaries, barracks, courthouses, libraries, etctera...? Note that we don't actually need to learn Construction in order to help our building efforts, but rather to train some catapult teams to knock down Numidian's walls!

In 1060 AD, Uruk whips Chicken Itch and starts work on the Apostolic Palace. The bonus hammers from my religious buildings will be nice, but my main goal is wonder denial. Thebes starts work on the Hagia Sophia. I know, I know ... stupid wonder. I'm chasing the Engineer GPP. :crazyeye:

In 1095 AD, the Egyptian wise men figure out how to throw big rocks at walls. Now they seem to be fascinated by something they call "magnetism" which supposedly can be used to figure out where we are. Sounds handy!

(Compass -> Optics tech path. Time to get my Caravels into the water and find the other civilizations!)

Half of Egypt is still building infrastructure (or Wonders), and the other half is building a medieval Stack o' Doom to conquer Numidian. Build, train, rinse, and repeat....

Finally, in 1180 AD, the catapults have battered Numidian's walls into rubble, and the Egyptian army sweeps into the city. Six archers, three axemen, and a spearman (oh my!) fight savagely, but they are mere undisciplined rabble when compared to the mighty soldiers of Egypt. One War Chariot is lost in battle when the horses charge straight onto the barbarians' spears. Numidian is now a semi-loyal province of the Egyptian Republic.

"Semi-loyal"? What does that mean? Well, see for yourself:
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4818/barbarianmotherland.jpg
Motherland unhappiness in a formerly-barbarian city? I don't think I've ever seen that before! However, Numidian is a large city with many tile improvements -- including a copper mine -- so we keep it.

My wonder addiction brings me a nasty upset in 1195 AD, as Yasod-whatever bucks the odds to spawn another Great Artist. I was really hoping for another Great Scientist from the Great Library, but the Parthenon & Mausoleum have diluted the GPP pool. Bummer. Ibn Muqlah heads to Thebes to settle down and start teaching calligraphy. Perhaps he can re-write the Heroic Epic? I'm definitely thinking about a Cultural victory now....

To assist my newest Great Calligrapher, the Egyptian wise men finish up their studies of Optics and start to research something called Paper. Currently, the Great Library of Yasod-whatever holds shelves and shelves of stone tablets. This newfangled Paper seems like a more efficient way to store our writings!

In 1210 AD, Hatty cracks the whip in Uruk to finish the Apostolic Palace. W00t! With absolutely no competition, Hatty is elected the Great High Priest and Supreme Babe of Hinduism. Now I know that I will be able to lay the Nile Smackdown on those other civilizations without some stupid Apostolic Palace resolution getting in my way. :trouble:

Speaking of the Nile Smackdown (now on Pay-Per-View!), the Egyptian Navy has dispatched two teams of caravels to discover the world. One team sails to the east, and the other team sails to the west. Soon, we will find the poor, unenlightened masses that are yearning to experience Egyptian culture! :)

And when we find them, we will grind them into dust beneath the wheels of our War Chariots.

City overview at 1220 AD:
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/9453/cityoverview1220ad.jpg

Demographics at 1220 AD:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1654/hattydemographics1220ad.jpg
Egypt is #1 in all of the important categories .. except for Soldiers. Yup, there's definitely a warmonger AI in this game. Shaka? Genghis? Monty? We'll just have to see.

Greatest Cities at 1220 AD:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5241/greatestcities1220ad.jpg
Hmmmm ... it appears that someone else is trying to compete with me for wonder-spam! The Great Lighthouse, the Colossus, and Notre Dame are all in the same unknown city! As soon as I find him (or her), the Egyptian Army will politely explain why one should not steal wonders from a hardcore wonder-hog....

Finally, my statistics at 1220 AD:
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/96/hattybuilds1220ad.jpg
Gotta love the cheap Creative libraries! I actually had to build Alexandria's library twice, because the first one got wiped out by a monsoon.
Thoughts? Advice? I know I'm spamming wonders like a n00b, but I have both Stone & Marble, and I also have a whole continent to myself. I couldn't resist the temptation to collect every shiny toy. Was that a mistake?

As before, my hunch is that I have a winning game. That demographics screen is pretty convincing.... :D

Continuing Noble / Marathon

Thoughts? Advice?

As before, my hunch is that I have a winning game. That demographics screen is pretty convincing.... :D
You are ready to move up at least one level, or down in speed. Totally dominating a game is fun, but it gets old fast.

I suggest Prince Marathon, then Prince Epic as way to move up the ladder slowly. Not a ton of difference between Noble and Prince Marathon. You will still dominate it, I bet.

You are ready to move up at least one level, or down in speed. Totally dominating a game is fun, but it gets old fast.

I suggest Prince Marathon, then Prince Epic as way to move up the ladder slowly. Not a ton of difference between Noble and Prince Marathon. You will still dominate it, I bet.

Noble -> Prince is an easy transfer. there seems less difference than the patches and unofficial pathces could offer. It's really a big difference to my war when AI learnt to rush military to very last man and get an archer each turn facing seige. It's pretty much eliminated my sneak attack i was so fond of. :blush:

Noble/Normal: 1620 to 1910, Domination victory

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

My military build up paid off nicely in this round. With a few minor glitches my invasion force cut through the Portuguese and Arabian empires easily. Shaka declared war on Joao right before I did, and managed to capture a small tundra city. Joao had nothing more advanced than a few muskets, which stood no chance against CR2 cannons. Lisbon, the first city I captured, would make a great place to build reinforcements after it came out of revolt:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

3 copper, 2 clams , rice, and cows! :wow: From there I split my stack in two and worked my way through the Portuguese empire. Lisbon contained the Apostolic Palace, but unfortunately Saladin was the current resident. He declared war on me shortly after Lisbon fell, but I was able to get a peace treaty a few turns later. Things might have gotten complicated when Shaka declared war on Willem, but neither of my allies asked me to join in the fight.

My biggest blunder was defying an AP resolution to return a Portuguese city to Saladin. It turned out not to have enough votes to pass anyway. Regardless, even if I lost the city, I could have simply taken it back militarily later. Lesson learned.

After a brief pause I declared war on Saladin. This was slightly (but not much) more difficult, since Sal had Protective rifles. The fighting stopped when Sal put forward a AP resolution. I voted no, but could have risked defying it had I not defied the previous resolution (who's unhappiness I was still dealing with). I spent most of the war(s) teching towards Artillery and Industrialism, so I used the peace to upgrade cannons to artillery and my grens/rifles to infantry. Soon after an AP election came up, and I was able to win residence, thus preventing further mischief from Sal. By 1910 I had reduced Arabia to a single city, and had enough territory for Domination win:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg

My score:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

Not bad, but could have been better (see post-mortem below). This victory was powered by a distinct military advantage:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu269/Trystero_CFC/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

Post-mortem:

What went right: The decision to chariot rush Sury and Gilly was obviously the right choice. Once the continent was mine, it was more than able to fuel expansion to enable a decisively winning position. I was the tech leader for most of the game with minimal tech trading.

What could have gone better: I definitely need to be more focused in my endgame if I am going to move to higher levels. The problem I have with winning positions is that I relax and get sloppy:

1: I should have invaded Arabia first. Sal is Protective, so I should not have given him more time to improve his defending forces. I usually target the most powerful rival first. I should have done that here.

2: As mentioned above, I should have thought things through before defying the AP resolution. That prevented me from defying the second resolution and finishing off Arabia quicker.

3: When fighting Sal, I forgot to check regularly if he was willing to capitulate! (@Amao: I had already played this round when I posted the last round. Heeding your advice would have helped :() Again, just plain sloppy. :hammer2: I did replay the war with Saladin, and he was willing to capitulate after he lost the AP residence. With the subsequent border pops, the game ended in 1900, and my final score improved to ~40000. Again lesson learned.

Finally, I want to thank TMIT for hosting this game, and everyone else for interesting feedback and discussions. I definitely enjoyed my first time participating here at CFC, and I look forward to the next NC! :cheers:

You are ready to move up at least one level, or down in speed. Totally dominating a game is fun, but it gets old fast.

I suggest Prince Marathon, then Prince Epic as way to move up the ladder slowly. Not a ton of difference between Noble and Prince Marathon. You will still dominate it, I bet.
I appreciate the encouragement. Believe it or not, this is my second game on Noble. Before that, Warlord was my comfort level. However, reading these forums (especially the Strats & Tips forum) has taught me a lot about how to play Civ4. I'm trying to become much more focused now, when I used to try to do everything all at once. On Warlord (or Chieftain) level, you can do everything all at once. Noble level seems to require a bit more focus.

This is also the first Noble's Club in which I've participated. I have definitely enjoyed it! I will finish this game -- heading for a Cultural victory -- but I don't think I'll keep posting it unless anything truly odd happens. Cultural victories become a bit tedious by the endgame, and I don't want to bore anyone.

Again, this game has been a lot of fun! I look forward to the 24th installment of the Noble's Club! :goodjob:

Noble/Normal: 1620 to 1910, Domination victory

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Sure, I'll give a go at it:
My biggest blunder was defying an AP resolution to return a Portuguese city to Saladin. It turned out not to have enough votes to pass anyway. Regardless, even if I lost the city, I could have simply taken it back militarily later. Lesson learned.
That's why I built the AP in my game. I didn't want the AP all that badly, but I did want to keep it out of AI hands. That said, I think you're right about not defying the resolution. Let Sal pass whatever silliness he wants to pass, and just make your own "resolution" with rifles and cannon.

The fighting stopped when Sal put forward a AP resolution. I voted no, but could have risked defying it had I not defied the previous resolution (who's unhappiness I was still dealing with).
Yeah, I usually find it easier to just take the enforced peace and re-declare ASAP. Looking on the bright side, a brief window of peace is enough to reinforce and/or upgrade your troops ... as you did. Nice way to take advantage of the situation! :D

What went right: The decision to chariot rush Sury and Gilly was obviously the right choice. Once the continent was mine, it was more than able to fuel expansion to enable a decisively winning position. I was the tech leader for most of the game with minimal tech trading.
Yup, I did that too. War Chariots are just a great rush unit, and starting with so much land just puts you into a powerhouse position. :king:

That said, I'm impressed that you pulled off a War Chariot rush against two civs on Normal speed! :goodjob: In my own game, I stacked the odds in my favor by slowing the speed down to Marathon, so it was rather easy. But you did it on Normal. Nicely done!

3: When fighting Sal, I forgot to check regularly if he was willing to capitulate!
I have only recently fixed that oversight in my own game. The vassalization (is that a word?) mechanics seem to point to a snowball effect. Once you get a few vassals, each other civ becomes more and more likely to capitulate. At a certain point, you only have to take one or two cities before your target is willing to surrender!

Of course, it also depends on the AI in question. Mansa Musa will capitulate very easily in my experience. Other AIs want to keep fighting until the bitter end....

1906 AD final debriefing.

Domination victory. In the move from Noble to Prince the principal problem seems to be error forgiveness. Think harder or get hurt recovering. The earlier Egyptian economic difficulties were instructive.

Here's the serious thinking part. In 1605 the key decision seemed to be cities or soldiers. The only empty land was on my continent, none of the "others" were keen on Hatshepsut - land competition and the potential of a two-front war. Thinking through the headache, it finally occured to me that this was a case for the grand tactical matter of central position. It wasn't exactly Napoleon 101 but cities up, machine guns on the shores, transportation railways, destroyer screens on the eastern and western shores while building an attack or counter-attack force for the final conflict looked like a plan.

Things didn't look perfect when the arriviste Dutch scored the N/W iron city but Memphis had solid culture and a large force could make that city a take-over-in-waiting. By 1820 Egypt had 15 cities, the military tech lead, a railway system and by re-definning dumb at long last a fort 1E of Thebes for the navies. 1875 was unforgettable. Just before Egyptian ennui led to an Amsterdam attack, Joao II declared war in the SW. This was an even better piece of luck than the two unexpected Great Merchants as the other three powers had an umbrage reaction on behalf of their fake Pharaoh friend. The Portugese land invasion was met by machine guns and in two turns their frigates and galleons were destroyed by destroyers. Egypt's near-Amsterdam fleets were "re-destinationed" to the NE. Game on.

Joao II capitulated in 1888; Shaka in 1893; Willem in 1905. Game won.

The planning of the early war and to a lesser extent the later war was sound. The luck with a total of three Great Merchants (for upgrades) and hesitating just long enough on the Holland trigger... Magic.

Noble to Prince? A walk in the park. All you need is plans that actually work and great grand luck.

I appreciate the encouragement. Believe it or not, this is my second game on Noble. Before that, Warlord was my comfort level. However, reading these forums (especially the Strats & Tips forum) has taught me a lot about how to play Civ4. I'm trying to become much more focused now, when I used to try to do everything all at once. On Warlord (or Chieftain) level, you can do everything all at once. Noble level seems to require a bit more focus.

Domination victory. In the move from Noble to Prince the principal problem seems to be error forgiveness. Think harder or get hurt recovering. The earlier Egyptian economic difficulties were instructive.

I have to agree with your assessments. In retrospect, I think I spent too much time at Warlord before moving up to Noble. I've learned a great deal reading these forums, but applying various strategies in real game situations is the best way to learn how they work. As both SlipperyJim and GGS point out, the problem at the lower difficulty levels is that the game is so forgiving, you often aren't adequately enough punished for mistakes. (You also have fewer choices to make, since you can build Wonders, found religions, and win the Liberalism and circumnavigation race, all in the same game. I am under no illusions that that is possible at higher difficulties.) I think posting games in a public forum is helping me be much more aware of what I am doing and much more critical of the choices I make, since I have to explain them to others.

@SlipperyJim:

That's why I built the AP in my game. I didn't want the AP all that badly, but I did want to keep it out of AI hands. That said, I think you're right about not defying the resolution. Let Sal pass whatever silliness he wants to pass, and just make your own "resolution" with rifles and cannon.

Yeah, I have to remember that in the future. Owning the AP, even if you are not going to use it, is worth it just to keep it out of the AI's hands.

Yup, I did that too. War Chariots are just a great rush unit, and starting with so much land just puts you into a powerhouse position. :king:

Exactly. From looking at others write-ups, it seems this game was really won when/if control of the original continent was gained. From that position (on Noble difficulty at least), you could practically pursue any victory condition you chose.

That said, I'm impressed that you pulled off a War Chariot rush against two civs on Normal speed! :goodjob: In my own game, I stacked the odds in my favor by slowing the speed down to Marathon, so it was rather easy. But you did it on Normal. Nicely done!

Thanks! I really think I was aided by the map in that regard. Neither Sury or Gilgamesh had much metal easily available to them. It really helped to face such meager defenses. I normally play at Epic. I was amazed at how quickly I got to the modern era. That last war took several hundred years, but it didn't feel like it. :crazyeye:

Noble/Normal: 1620 to 1910, Domination victory

It seems you don't have enough cannons for the invasion. With enough cannons, rifles won't have any chance defending cities. Just send a few suicidal cannons and see the collateral damage taking effect. You should be able to shorten your war significantly if you mass building enough units. :)

It seems you don't have enough cannons for the invasion. With enough cannons, rifles won't have any chance defending cities. Just send a few suicidal cannons and see the collateral damage taking effect. You should be able to shorten your war significantly if you mass building enough units. :)


You don't think 30 cannons was enough for my invasion force? :confused: I was building reinforcements at the same time. I built 47 cannons total during the game and lost only 16. (I upgraded most to Artillery eventually, and built another 8 of those). Perhaps my self-critique was unclear. When I said it was a mistake not to attack Saladin first because he eventually upgraded to rifles, I didn't mean to imply that those Protective rifles were any sort of hindrance to my war machine :), just that it was sub-optimal play on my part. My stacks were effective primarily because I've recently come to realize the power of City Raider II siege weapons (I used to use primarily Barrage and Accuracy promotions). With CRII cannons/artillery, the Rifles were no problem.

You don't think 30 cannons was enough for my invasion force? :confused: I was building reinforcements at the same time. I built 47 cannons total during the game and lost only 16. (I upgraded most to Artillery eventually, and built another 8 of those). Perhaps my self-critique was unclear. When I said it was a mistake not to attack Saladin first because he eventually upgraded to rifles, I didn't mean to imply that those Protective rifles were any sort of hindrance to my war machine :), just that it was sub-optimal play on my part. My stacks were effective primarily because I've recently come to realize the power of City Raider II siege weapons (I used to use primarily Barrage and Accuracy promotions). With CRII cannons/artillery, the Rifles were no problem.

Good game. :D

Hi guys,

I'm fairly new player. I must say that these forums have helped me so much so far but I believe that these NC clubs games could help me even futher now. So, I thought that I might join the club.

I have now played few games on noble and I'm thinking that I might even give it a try on prince. How you decide when it is time to move to the next level? I'd apriciate if you could read the description and give me some thoughts about it. I played the Hathy map today but I realized too late that maybe I should have take some screenies during the game :blush:. Well, live and learn.

So, here is my verbal description:

I started aggressivly and warrior rushed Sury first. When I got horses I used WC's to rush Gilgames. I kept Sury's capital and two cities from Gilgames So, I secured the continent somewhere around 1500 BC and I had shortly after I built my second own city. My economy was in pretty bad shape (science slider were in 20 and I was still losing money) with all these cities but I managed to recover with heavy cottage spamming. I droppped my guard for a while and barbs managed to take one of my city. Fortunately they didn't raze it and I was able to take it back on next turn.

Next, I beelined to optics because I wanted to found the other civ's. Basically, I wasn't behind in techs when I found the other continent and was able to gain fair tech lead pretty quickly thanks to my heavely cottaged continent. I decided to aim for cultural victory because I didn't feel like warring today and my diplo position was pretty bad. Because of my tech lead end of the game was just wonder building. I also blockaded the other continent with privateers which gave my something like 20-25 gpt pretty long time.

The game ended 1898 and the scores were about 29k.


Cheers

Pohjalainen

Sounds like you've completely blown that game out, Pohjalainen. I would say it's time to move up at least one level. :goodjob:

I have now played few games on noble and I'm thinking that I might even give it a try on prince. How you decide when it is time to move to the next level?

Play a Noble game on Large/Huge map with Normal speed and still win it. Then you are sure you can move onto prince. My comment to you, war more on different ages, simply to get familiar with different units in warfare.

Thanks for the comments. The few games I have played with Noble were on Normal speed and Standard map. I have played with Boudica, Genghis and Julius so far. Those have been two dominations and conquest. The last wars in all those games were with riflemen, grenadiers, cavalry and cannons. This Hathy game (speed was epic) was actually my first one were I used so aggressive tactics so early in the game. It might sound odd after these games, but I'm not a true warmonger.

Well, maybe I try larger map with normal next and see what happens and I think I must play those earlier Noble's club games too.

Most NC games are standard maps, if not all of them for the sake of game time. BTW, another indicator I took as ready to go to next level is causually playing on the level w/o sl and still winning. That's definitely a positive sign.

I will finish this game -- heading for a Cultural victory -- but I don't think I'll keep posting it unless anything truly odd happens. Cultural victories become a bit tedious by the endgame, and I don't want to bore anyone.
Cultural victories are boring, and they take a very long time. So I changed my mind:
So in 1526 AD, I switched civics to Nationhood & Theocracy. The next five turns saw the Egyptian draft. College students protested at Egypt's newly-built Universities, but Noble Hatty would not heed their complaints. Be quiet, you spoiled brats! Grab a rifle, and go bring glory to Egypt!

Meanwhile, Thebes and Numidian christened a few new Galleons. The Egyptian navy gathered at a fort on the eastern coast of Egypt. Riflemen and siege weapons were loaded onto the ships. When every ship was full, the armada set sail for glory or death!

"Where are we going, anyway?"

Ah, but Noble Hatty keeps her secrets. Egyptian intelligence has revealed that both Portugal and Arabia have mastered Chemistry. Could there be hostile frigates in the water? No loose lips will sink these ships!

(Foolishly, I forgot that I still had a monopoly on Astronomy. So nobody will have any frigates. Ah well ... it doesn't hurt to be cautious, right?)

In 1548 AD, I bribed Shaka to flip to Hinduism. Now he liked me better than the putzes on his continent. Also, Saladin now hates Shaka, which would become very important in a few years....

In 1552 AD, Thebes finished the Taj Mahal. Golden Age!

In 1556 AD, the armada arrived off the coast of Mecca. Yes, Mecca. Ironically, it's actually the Holy City for Islam, and Saladin even built a shrine for me! (Mecca is usually Buddhist, which is why I like to play with Choose Religions enabled.) Instead of a formal declaration of war, Noble Hatty simply had her Chief of Security give the Arabian ambassador a "turbo wedgie". While he limped home to recover, a sizable stack of riflemen and siege weapons landed on a hill to the south of Mecca. The riflemen dug in to to receive the Arabian counterattack, and the ancient siege engines started battering down the walls. Oddly enough, there was no Arabian counterattack! Egypt's riflemen passed the time by playing many games of Solitaire while the catapults and trebuchets continued to ship away at Mecca's walls....

Also in 1556 AD, the Egyptian scientists achieved a breakthrough in their studies of Chemistry. Several Egyptian caravels were upgraded to frigates and immediately sent to support the war in Arabia. New frigates were commissioned in Egypt's few port cities. Now that intercontinental war is in fashion, naval supremacy has become de rigeur for all fashion-conscious Egyptians! ;)

In 1562 AD, Shaka joined the dogpile and declared war ... on Arabia.

In 1568 AD, the walls of Mecca finally fell. Decrepit old catapults were sacrificed to weaken the defenders, and the Egypt's riflemen charged! The results:
While attacking in Arabian territory at Mecca, Rifleman (14.00/14) defeats Arabian Heavy Footman (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Mecca, Rifleman (14.00/14) defeats Arabian Camel Archer (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Mecca, Rifleman (14.00/14) defeats Arabian Camel Archer (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Mecca, Rifleman (12.18/14) defeats Arabian Musketman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Mecca, Rifleman (14.00/14) defeats Arabian Swordsman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Mecca, Rifleman (10.92/14) defeats Arabian Pikeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Mecca, Rifleman (12.18/14) defeats Arabian Axeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Mecca, Rifleman (14.00/14) defeats Arabian Musketman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
Mecca became a protectorate of Egypt before the last of the smoke had even cleared the air.

Also in 1568 AD, the rampaging Zulu hordes overran the Arabian city of Anjar. War bonds for Arabia were not looking like a good investment....

The next eight years saw some limited warfare, as Egyptian frigates sunk a bunch of Arabian caravels & galleys. The garrison in Mecca was reinforced by the rest of the drafted riflemen (I didn't have enough galleons to take them all in one trip), and my veterans sallied forth to annihilate a number of medieval troops: Camel Archers, Pikemen, Catapults, etcetera. But no additional cities were taken. Finally, by 1576 AD, Saladin had had enough. He saw the light of reason and capitulated.

Flush with success, the Egyptian army began marching across Arabian lands to their next target....

In 1582 AD, the Portuguese ambassador woke up one night to a knocking on the embassy door. The atmosphere in Uruk had been getting a little tense. In fact, just last week, the leading Egyptian newspaper had run a devastating editorial attack on Joao's hat! So it was with some trepidation that Portugal's ambassador opened the door. He discovered a burning paper bag on the front step. Quickly, the ambassador tried to stomp out the fire ... only to discover that the bag had been filled with an unmentionable (and malodorous) substance. Oh, that's going to leave a stain! Next to the bag, there was a simple handwritten note on the official stationery of the Egyptian government. The message was short and simple: "War, sucker!"

Egyptian siege weapons began to batter down the walls of Oporto. In 1584 AD, several legions of hopelessly-outmatched Portuguese troops charged the Egyptian siegeworks in a desperate suicide attack. It didn't accomplish anything. Eight years later, the walls had fallen, and Oporto's garrison was slaughtered to the last man. Oporto became the newest addition to Egypt's overseas holdings.

Shortly afterward, Guimarães and Lisbon both fell. Joao capitulated in 1610 AD. As part of the peace treaty, he was also ordered to remove his appalling hat.

The Arabian & Portuguese wars -- though short -- had critically depleted Egypt's siege weaponry. In addition, Egyptian scientists had discovered new techniques for making Steel which would allow for devastating cannon to be produced. So every city in Egypt produced a cannon (or two), and the trusty Galleons started shipping them all to Mecca. Meanwhile, the Egyptian Expeditionary Force started marching back through Arabia to rendezvous with the cannon in Mecca.

By 1646 AD, many cannon had arrived in Mecca, and Egypt's army marched up to a forested hill to the southeast of Anjar. As Shaka's most-recent conquest, Anjar contained the majority of the Zulu troops. The riflemen dug in on the hilltop and awaited the storm. Meanwhile, in Ulundi, Egypt's ambassador delivered a special present to Shaka himself. Shaka opened the box and found the head of his prized racehorse ... along with a declaration of war.

Shaka's Stack of Medieval Doom launched itself against the Egyptian Expeditionary Force with predictable results:
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (14.00/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (14.00/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (12.74/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (12.74/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (8.96/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (13.16/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (13.16/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (13.16/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (13.16/14) defeats Zulu Catapult (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (11.90/14) defeats Zulu Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (6.86/14) defeats Zulu War Elephant (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (5.60/14) defeats Zulu War Elephant (Prob Victory: 95.7%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (8.12/14) defeats Zulu Horseman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (3.22/14) defeats Zulu War Elephant (Prob Victory: 96.5%)
While defending in Zulu territory at Anjar, Rifleman loses to Zulu War Elephant (5.52/8) (Prob Victory: 96.2%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (5.74/14) defeats Zulu Knight (Prob Victory: 86.7%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (7.14/14) defeats Zulu Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (8.12/14) defeats Zulu Horseman (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (8.12/14) defeats Zulu Horseman (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (9.66/14) defeats Zulu War Elephant (Prob Victory: 95.8%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (6.02/14) defeats Zulu Heavy Footman (Prob Victory: 95.1%)
While defending in Zulu territory at Anjar, Rifleman loses to Zulu Heavy Footman (0.80/8) (Prob Victory: 95.1%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (7.84/14) defeats Zulu Heavy Footman (Prob Victory: 95.1%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (0.70/14) defeats Zulu Knight (Prob Victory: 84.1%)
While defending in Zulu territory at Anjar, Rifleman loses to Zulu Knight (7.40/10) (Prob Victory: 64.4%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (6.30/14) defeats Zulu War Elephant (Prob Victory: 88.1%)
Subutai (Great General) born in Elephantine
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (8.12/14) defeats Zulu Knight (Prob Victory: 58.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (5.04/14) defeats Zulu Crossbowman (Prob Victory: 97.2%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (0.56/14) defeats Zulu Heavy Footman (Prob Victory: 84.0%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (3.50/14) defeats Zulu Pikeman (Prob Victory: 89.3%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (4.06/14) defeats Zulu Pikeman (Prob Victory: 99.5%)
While defending in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (3.78/14) defeats Zulu Knight (Prob Victory: 95.4%)
I killed his entire stack and lost three riflemen. Let's hear it for defensive terrain and a monstrous technology advantage!

Sadly, my offensive push into Anjar fell exactly one unit short, and the city was conquered by an Arabian camel archer. Oh well, those are the breaks. Meanwhile, the Egyptian navy sunk a few Zulu ships, trashed a bunch of fishing boats, and blockaded most Zulu ports. Naval supremacy belongs to Noble Hatty!

In 1648 AD, the Egyptian Expeditionary Force obliterated another Zulu army:
While attacking in Arabian territory near Fustat, Cavalry (4.50/15) defeats Zulu Crossbowman (Prob Victory: 98.6%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Cavalry (12.60/15) defeats Zulu War Elephant (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Cavalry (12.90/15) defeats Zulu Heavy Footman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (9.94/14) defeats Zulu Longbowman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (8.82/14) defeats Zulu Longbowman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (11.76/14) defeats Zulu Heavy Footman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (8.68/14) defeats Zulu Knight (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (8.82/14) defeats Zulu Knight (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (5.74/14) defeats Zulu Horseman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (6.30/14) defeats Zulu Pikeman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (2.38/14) defeats Zulu Knight (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in Arabian territory at Anjar, Rifleman (3.22/14) defeats Zulu Heavy Footman (Prob Victory: 97.1%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Anjar, Rifleman loses to Zulu Knight (1.00/10) (Prob Victory: 49.5%)

Shaka is running low on troops now, and I have even more reinforcements on the way, so this war is totally a foregone conclusion. I'm aiming for a quick capitulation and a Conquest Victory by 1700ish. :king:

It was a little quicker than I thought. Conquest Victory in 1670 AD:
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2392/noblehattyendscore.jpg
Shaka capitulated after losing only three cities. Sal took Anjar, and I took Amsterdam & Utrecht. Then I decided to check diplomacy, and I was surprised to see that Shaka was ready to throw in the towel! Doesn't it usually take a little more to make him capitulate?
In an ironic twist, BUG notified me that I crossed the land area threshold for Domination on the same turn as I won Conquest. (I had already crossed the population threshold some time ago.) So technically, I won two victories at the same time. Quirky. :dubious: Also, 79569 is the highest score in my personal HoF! :woohoo:

Thanks again for continuing the Noble's Club. Now I'll get started on NC XXIV!

Is this game still going on? Or will there be a new Noble's Club coming out soon?

I just started playing Civ IV again after a long hiatus and a detour into GalCiv II (which I'm still playing as well! ;)). I used to play on Warlord level, so I thought I might try and step up to Noble level.

I guess I'll still give this a go. It's OK to post updates still, right? Oh, and how do you take screenies again?

@mwdowns: hit PrintScreen key and you'll get the screenies in ScreenShots folder. And Yes, it's still open, i think, because, i'm still digging the way earlier ones. And there is a newer one live as well. For the complete NC series, use this link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=315035

Thanks for the reply, Amao. Is there a way to make the screenshot resolution better? I took a couple, but I think they might be not so good resolution. I'll post them here anyway and see how it works.

Ok, on to my first spoiler:



Well, I overshot the 1000BC mark for the first post, but only by 100+ years or so. I'm playing on Noble difficulty and Normal game length.

I ended up settling on the opening tile. Knocked out a worker then a Settler. Settled Memphis to the west near the corn, incense and spice. Next did Heliopolis to the south, Elephantine to the west of Memphis and (can't remember name of the city) south of Heliopolis.

Can't remember my exact path in research, so I'll attach the research page to show you guys where I am.

I've met Gilgamesh and Sury (to the south of me). Have and open boarders with Sury, but other than that I haven't talked with either of them.

Right now, I'm building some archers and settlers and various improvements in my cities. I've got a couple workers chopping and building cottages and roads and improving resources. Got the horses, and hopefully when Thebes gets another culture boost I can get that stone up in the north. I've got a settler on the way to settle near those cows and dye south of Elephantine.

That's about it for now. I'll take a break and look back for any advice you guys might have. Maybe I'll play the Korean Noble game I just saw too! :D

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@mwdowns:
more workers, more cottages, stronger military, put buildings in lower priority, if you do, get libraries and run a couple of scientists when you hit happy cap if you want to run cottages heavy, otherwise, run scientists asap. War Chariots are superior early units for rushing. But your haven't geared toward it and it might be a little late to rush either of your neighbors now. If you can get 7-8 barricked WC before turn 100, you still have a chance to knock down of the capitals, (don't declare early, other declare when all your WC are in position. and cut their copper/iron asap.) and take some wonder if any. Otherwise, stick with your peaceful route.

I sure hope "it's still on" -- I have several backlogged games I hope people will comment on when I post. I've seen people posting in very old threads recently -- Napoleon, for one.

Thanks for the reply, Amao. Is there a way to make the screenshot resolution better? I took a couple, but I think they might be not so good resolution. I'll post them here anyway and see how it works.
Your screenshots look great! Here's my advice for your game:
First, Amao is right. You need more workers! I only saw two workers for four cities in your screenshot. You should have at least six workers, and I'd rather have eight in your place.

See, Civ4 is largely about land management. Your cities' primary function is to work the land. So you want good land, right? Unfortunately, most land isn't worth very much until it's improved. So you need to improve your land, and that means workers! Two good rules of thumb that really helped me move up to Noble:

Never have a city working unimproved land if you can possibly avoid it.
Build about two workers for every city ... until your land is mostly developed.

To recap: Cities that work unimproved land just drain your coffers with maintenance expenses. Cities that work good (improved) land can power your dreams of imperial conquest!

The other tip I'd give is probably a bit too late. Egypt comes with a wonderful UU for rushing: the War Chariot. With increased strength (the same as an Axeman) and immunity to first strikes, a War Chariot is almost the perfect unit for conquering Archer-defended AI cities. With two movement points, you can even keep your rush moving very quickly! Most of the successful games (including mine) involved whipping/chopping out a stack of War Chariots and killing one of the neighbors. :trouble: Dedicated rushers killed both of the neighbors and claimed the whole continent for themselves! You might be a bit late to try it now, but keep this principle in mind for other games.

AFAICT, many Civ4 games can be greatly improved by cranking out an offensive stack and killing a neighbor.

Thanks or the advice, guys. Will definitely try and crank out a few more workers. I took your advice to heart when I started the other Noble's Club playing with Wang.

One thing I really need to work on in my games is my warmongering. Going after one of my neighbors early is not something I've ever done or been very good at, but as you say SlipperyJim that seems to be the way of Noble games and above. Do war chariots upgrade to anything?

War Chariots upgrade to Knights in medieval times, then to Cuirassiers and Cavalry.

Well I just finished up my try at Noble/Epic speed and am in complete shock :eek: Willem of Orange won a cultural victory with only 4 cities. The AI with the second worst score in the game pulled a fast one on myself and Saladin who were vying for 1st on the scoreboard and were racing to build our spaceship.

I've never seen that before. Granted the game went really long considering it ended in 2030 or around there. Sneaky bastard that Willem :crazyeye:

Hi

@Yasha sorry bout your loss :( --it always a good idea to keep eye on vic conditions just in case an AI tries to sneak in victory.

One more lil thing--when giving specific details about a map or leaders in games like this it nice to put that part in spoilers just in case anyone else who dceides to play and doesnt want any xtra info before they start.

Kaytie

Finally, I'm back from my trip. But tons of work at office. I was too exhausted to work this evening and picked this game up for some relax. Played up to 800AD at Monarch/Normal. Was doing good so far. Will report back another time.

@Yasha:

Too bad you lose a game. I guess you could reload the game a few dozen turns earlier and plan an invasion. As long as you could destroy one of his legendary city (or candidate), you'll be saved.

I decided to play, I picked monarch and was baffled by the presence of AI warriors in capital cities. In fact so baffled I made a save to retire to check it was on monarch and reloaded! (same year no moves) Hope that isn't considered cheating :lol: I hadn't realized the archery bonus was turned off :cringe:

Settings Monarch/Marathon didn't take many pics, should have though, some very bizarre things happened.

Settled in place cos I liked the hammers and forests in the site,
The stone seals my strategy for the early game,

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BO was roughly (I don't remember exactly :p)
Warrior --> workboat --> workboat while using some tile micro to make sure city grew to size 3
--> worker --> worker--> settler --> settled on stone, due to lay of land no escort, no warrior in city either but it builds a warrior to wait for mysticism

During all this:-
Tech order Fishing --> AH --> Mining --> BW --> Mysticism --> Masonry

Partly pre-chopped and eventually rolled out Stonehenge in my second city, so quickly I didn't even get to use the stone :eek: after which it built barracks and started building warriors for no real reason at all.... that city was doomed to be pretty awful for all time, but it had served its purpose.


Meanwhile my capital built some warriors and cities 1st grabbed horses, 2nd just food. At this point I only had 2 workers so I built 3 more in my cap.
The pic was taken much later, but city placement doesn't change so it doesn't matter :p

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Ignore Alexandria for now it was my fifth city settled quite a lot later.

I build my cities up and run two prophets in my 2 new cities of Heliopolis and Elephantine using my nice new shiny obelisks granted by Stonehenge.

On to 1540BC
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Economy is starting to feel the pressure from growth, the pic shows 108 turns for alphabet :eek: (I researched summin else for now!) I already have a plan to get out of this a heck of a lot stronger though.

After the settler there is finished my 5 workers descend on Thebes and chop every tree in sight, before long I have the pyramids :D my economy takes a sharp upturn with the switch to representation thanks to the 4 prophets I'm running at this time.

In 1200ish BC I declare war on Suryavarman, It was this point I made a save to retire to check it was on monarch lol! before the war I had scouted his capital with a war chariot, 1 warrior was guarding. I waited for a second war chariot then attacked, he whipped an archer but I steamrolled through to take the city and the great wall!

At this point the barbs decided to be annoying with a galley appearing near one of Thebes clams, this was made a problem by the fact I didn't have sailing....
So I whipped out a fishing boat and did this:
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This war ended up very long, and one war chariot seemed invincible
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Again much later but it's the same unit.

He razed the second city solo killing 5 archers and a warrior there and again alone captured the third.

After this I had something of an economic crisis to handle, made worse by the fact I was still settling my own cities. I had to pause for a while to tech currency floating on the gold I made from capturing/razing.

After that I rolled through most of Suryavarman's territory capturing most of his cities.

A second break in the war happened when I approached the southernmost section of the continent, I couldn't find any more of his cities! But a barbarian one was close enough so that got beat up on.


At some point during all this I got 2 Great Prophets, my original intention was to use them to bulb Theology, but the way I was expanding and the sheer number of hammers in my Capital forced me to settle them there, a decision only made easier by being in representation ;)


I get a third great person before 1AD, a scientist. Nice! he came fairly late so he's waiting for the Philosophy bulb to become available (need meditation), which it does on exactly 1AD, I'm definitely going to build the Ankore Wat as I'm using lots of priests but as I founded Confucianism I have heaps of time, plus I have stone.
Unsure if I will swap to pacifism for a while, it is likely as my GP farm will be up and running pretty soon thanks to marble.

At 1 AD the situation is looking extremely good, 14 cities with tech parity, Gilga has archery sailing and priesthood that I don't care about, he also has MC though but won't trade. I have nearly finished the Great Library after choosing my GP farm.

The current tech situation

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My plans for the near future are:

First things first I need to fix my economy, I'm losing a lot of gold at 100% gold rate, so building wealth while building courthouses and working some more :commerce: generating tilles will get me through this.

Build a few more cities I think theres 3 maybe 4 decent sites around including this one
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I will be building it on the one tile ice island near the fish, the huge bonus it will bring to my domestic trade (15+ extra :commerce: in trade routes) will make it far more useful than it might look now!

And obviously theres the war with Giggles I've been itching to start for ages, just my economy can't handle any more right now, nor can my severely undermanned military which boasts an impressive 11 warrior garrisons and 3 war chariots. 1 chariot is a garrison, so I only have two units available to do anything they are however elite, a level 5 and level 7 war chariots!!!
The PRO archers dictate that I need catapults so construction is soon on the list. At the moment I'm researching sailing for a future offshore city site.

Heres some of Giggle's land
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I'm about to hit the attachment limit so I'll start a new post
Definitely been an interesting and fun game so far.

Now for the saves
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I notice a few of my pics got partly merged together on paint :cry:

I decided to play, I picked monarch and was baffled by the presence of AI warriors in capital cities. In fact so baffled I made a save to retire to check it was on monarch and reloaded!
I think that's expected. From TMIT's original post:
Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince (I do so, but don't forget I was a noble player who benefited from this series myself!). However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs (unless your host gets too creative). The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main effects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech archery themselves.
This game was a lot of fun for me! It was my first Noble game, and I had a runaway victory. I'm up to Prince now, and one day I hope to play at Monarch. :D

I think that's expected. From TMIT's original post:

Indeed but it still came as a shock to find a lone warrior in an AI capitol in 1300ish BC

Hi,

Here is my first ever Monarch win. :lol: Never thought it would come this soon when I picked up NC series again last month after months of not playing. Again, my regards to all the hosts and thanks to all the posters.

Previous Report is here, Monarch/Normal 1600AD Domination Win :D:

To 850BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7920610&postcount=84)

To 250BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7920639&postcount=85)


So Gilg was left alone with no resources. I repeatedly raided him, pillaging lands and pick out his new cities or lone units. I was only in 13th century I finally finished his pain. During this time, I got a few more techs by peacing talks.

On the tech side, I teched to Machinery and used a GS to bulb the Optics and sailed to the other land. The other side was a little behind in tech and religiously divided. William and Shaka were Buddists, Saladin was Hindu, and Joao was Confu. And before I could stir a war. Shaka declared William. How nice! And since then the war was constant over there. Saladin joined the war against William and then after William made peace with Shaka. Shake again declared on Saladin. And William finally got out the mess and found peace, Saladin pulled Joao, the most most tech advanced AI into war against Shaka before Saladin withdrew from the fight to take a breath. All these happened without me pushing for any triggers. I was just watching the show and powering up my techs.

However, when first met those guy I was in Judism. At least 2 of guys won't even open border with me. And the rest two's relation also quickly declining. So, I decided to give up the science beakers from temples and went for non-state religion. And all of sudden, everybody was ok with me. All borders opened. And some techs were also available for trade. Nobody ever disliked me until I landed troops to their home in the end.

At the home continent. I successfully cornered Gilg in the southwest and peacefully expanded my empire to all over the place. For a long long time, I was on the verge of bankrupcy and sometimes even relied on pillaging Gilg's cottage for cashes. I put a couple of cities into cottage mood, but they never really matured until after 1000AD. So my main incoming were mostly from the production cities buiding cashes. And using the food surplus city to run scientists.

In very late time, like around 400AD, I figured nobody had built Mids yet... And I just connected a stone outside the Gilg's Judism holy city I took from him. So I went for it, using the green former Sury's capital to mess chopped for Mids. And boom, my beaker was like doubled after i jumped to REP. Man, I have been playing specialists most of the time w/o Mids, but in this game, it really helped. I then, run through the Lib line and diverted to Chem first before getting Lib. But didn't arranged the bulb well and it ended up many GS had to settle. BTW, I did a GPr gambit on the holy city earlier running 2 scientist and 2 priest (from obelisk), and yeilded other cities my micromanagement to get a Great Priest and built the money collector. It was after that I started to spam Judisim until I met the other continent.

I watched the other continents tech rate closely and only Joao was a little running away (comparing to the other 3 of course) and nobody was close to paper when I got lib for steel at around 1200AD. Then I started messing cannons, and building Cannons. I found by going south in tech, I opened on Gunpowder hence I couldn't draft Maceman anymore. :( Not big deal though. More Cannons!

I picked Joao as the first target because he was weak in power and my ship building cities were mostly on west coast. And before my navy was launched, Joao was pulled into war against Shaka. :lol: All his mobile troops were away when I was taking down his capital's defense relative slowly. However, Joao got the UU and sank at least one of my empty Galleon but his navy was far from organized and only provided minimum annoyance than danger. I was suspecting some of the his boats heading to my continents for a counter attack. But he surrendered when I was sieging his 2nd city. And the only AI with optics now bent down on his knees. So I have free seas.

After a little rest, and also the landing of the 2nd wave. I declared on Saladin next sitting my troops inside Joao's city. I was going to invade before I saw his mass troop moving in. So I went back and waited in the city then mass cannoned this stack. I might lose 3 cannons in a row to cammel archers and then that's it. Because after that the rest of the cannons are all 90-99% winning ratio. I eventually lost another Maceman in a 90% battle before annihilating his stack in 2 turns. And after that, Saladin surrendered w/o losing a city! So I moved on to Will, with the 3rd wave of troop joining and the 4th wave on the coast ready to land. Will surrender after one city fallen and I checked vic conditions I'm already Dominating! And it was 1595AD! I was previously preparing to end the war in 1600's. :lol:

OK. That's it and here are my end game shots.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211359&stc=1&d=1240112312
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211360&stc=1&d=1240112312
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http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211363&stc=1&d=1240112312
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211364&stc=1&d=1240112312

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