I think I already suggested this in a different thread a while back, but hear me out.

Given the mechanics of Colonization, it might be feasible to make a Western mod for the game. The economic system along with the diplomacy model would, I think, fit the game well. Several of the native tribes would remain the same, and the colonies would presumably be replaced by different factions of settlers from the United States or Mexico, perhaps with special barbarian units representing bandits.

There would have to be major changes, of course. Instead of sailing to the homeland, the map would basically have to be landlocked. Natives would need to be a LOT more aggressive. And instead of fighting for independence, the settlers could have to campaign for statehood, which I guess would mean getting the usual Liberty Bells along with meeting some other criterion.

Just an idea at this point, but I thought I could get the ball rolling.

Thoughts?

Hmm, this looks interesting. I think you could even claim your own territory rather than statehood, given the accounts of the Californian Republic, Texas, and Brigham Young's Deseret.

If you got something rolling, I could lend a hand, if I'm not to busy.

Well, I'm not sure how much I could contribute to the project other than moral support. I'm still busy with Fictionalization and I'm having enough trouble getting that off the ground.

Hmm, I see. Maybe someone else might like to get this rolling. I would try, but I'm not so interested in starting a new mod right now, just helping out with some others.

It wouldn't HAVE to be landlocked - some maps that say, are 85% land with a strip of sea to the south for fishing/transportation. As far as the mod idea, I like it.

There would have to be major changes, of course. Instead of sailing to the homeland, the map would basically have to be landlocked.

You're right, that would be a HUGE major change.
Conceptually, there is currently no way to represent *on the game map* the home countries. Ships travelling there actually disappear from the game map, and after a couple turns open a special screen representing in a highly abstract form the home country, without giving the least thought to what cities the home country has, with how much population, which buildings, what sort of production, with what defences.

If you could somehow place the home country on the game map, you would have to answer all those questions. Most importantly, the home country would have to have cities and defenders, because you know that inevitably the player will want to invade.

I'm not saying it isn't possible. But it would require a major re-think of how commodities are managed, how the home country's cities are represented, and how the King's army is represented.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

For the transportation of goods, you would need to make Wagon trains the means to replace ships. I just wonder how the AI would react to this...

I think MareNostrum is making it so that 'Europe' is represented by a single city, so we could take the code from there. I don't think the player would necessarily invade the homeland, just declare their own independent state (modeled by the examples I gave earlier). I think all of those people wanted an independent nation, not to declare war on the US.

That said, this would still be a huge overhaul of the game, but very fun.

You're right, that would be a HUGE major change.
Conceptually, there is currently no way to represent *on the game map* the home countries. Ships travelling there actually disappear from the game map, and after a couple turns open a special screen representing in a highly abstract form the home country, without giving the least thought to what cities the home country has, with how much population, which buildings, what sort of production, with what defences.

If you could somehow place the home country on the game map, you would have to answer all those questions. Most importantly, the home country would have to have cities and defenders, because you know that inevitably the player will want to invade.

I'm not saying it isn't possible. But it would require a major re-think of how commodities are managed, how the home country's cities are represented, and how the King's army is represented.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

You know, I've been thinking about this, and the Europe screen (maybe just renamed the "capital city" screen or something like that) would remain basically unchanged.

Perhaps the capitals could only be accessed by river? The galleons and frigates would be changed to steamboats and ironclads, but the mechanics would remain the same.

Thats a great idea, especially the use of the Missouri to expand Westward.

I think the time frame for this would have to be monthly or seasonal, since I was thinking that it would run from the Louisiana Purchase (1803) to somewhere around 1880-1900. I was also wondering if this should only include United States colonizers, or if this should include Mexican, even Canadian/British, or (bit of a stretch here) even Russian Alaska.

I think some of the colonies could include:
Republic of Texas- Sam Houston, Stephen F. Austin
California Republic- William B. Ide John C. Fremont
State of Deseret- Brigham Young
I can't really think of anything else, maybe Oregon?

The more I think about this, the more I consider starting this up myself... what do you guys think?

Hell, I'd love to see this made. But as I said, I can only lend moral support.

I like the faction ideas, but if you're looking to use someone outside the US, Mexico would work best with the setting.

I'm trying to thing how to set this up... I think, for simplicity sake I'm just going to go with four U.S. based factions. I think it would work best this way. I know that Piman's Australia mod uses multiple British colonies, so I could model them after that. If I included Mexico, it would be difficult to decipher what colonies belong to who. From what I understand Deseret, California, and Texas all had dealings (for lack of a better term) with both Mexico and the US. Oregon (which I would include) is the only one not mixed in w/ Mexico, but then there's the British.

I think the four colonies with one homeland (St. Louis, I'm thinking) would work out the best. This would be a major undertaking, so I would need a lot of support on this if I take this on. I've got all of next week off from the flood, so I'll see what I can get done this weekend and into next week.

This mod, would be awsome.


Adn you could still have the traveling. But it would have to be back east, and it would have to be by land(is that possable?) maybe add railroads, and have trains insted of boats, and have them to back east to get trade goods, people, just like before.



And have everyone use the same 'king/president', and have the calvery get sent in if you need help from the 'natives' or something.

Yea, but considering railroads didn't really come into play in the U.S. until the 1830s and weren't major until the 1860s, I was thinking using the river system first, and then adding railroads in later via founding fathers. I will change the name to Founding (or another term, maybe great??) Frontiersmen.

Some examples:
Asa Whitney: Allows railroads to be built.
Lewis & Clark: Same as Vanilla Col
Zebulon Pike: +1 Scout Movement(?)
Davy Crockett: Same as Ethan Allen?

Obviously, this isn't even close to a complete list, and I need a lot of suggestions.

For this mod to really get rolling, I'm going to need some people to help out with ideas. To kick things off, I would like some suggestions for new units, native leaders, and resources names. I could also use some other random suggestions as well, but for now I would like to get these out of the way.

Here are some of the ideas I have down so far:
All factions are to be based off of the United States (debatable, but either each faction gets their own 'King' or they all go under the U.S.)
State of Deseret: Leader= Brigham Young
Oregon Territory: Leader= John McLoughlin
Republic of Texas: Leaders= Sam Houston, Stephen F. Austin
California Republic: Leader= William B. Ide, John C. Fremont

The main mapscript will be a modified version of the Great Plains map script in Vanilla Civ. There will be a 'river system' of navigable coast terrain, starting west of the Mississippi and extending all the way to to the West Coast. The American city of St. Louis will be the Europe of the mod; where you can trade goods with the east and be the capital city of the REF.

What I need suggestions for:
Units
Artillery:
Cannon:
Caravel: Barge? (could also work as the Galleon)
Frigate:
Galleon:
Indentured Servant:
Man-o-War:
Merchantman:Steamboat?
Privateer: Bandit?
Regular: US Cavalry? (something else???)
Ship of the Line:Ironclad?

Native Leaders (I'll include all Native tribes, even if I've got the names for them.)
Apache: Magnas Colorado
Blackfoot:
Chippewa: Kechewaishke
Sioux: Sitting Bull
Mojave:
Navajo: Manuelito
Utes:
Crow:

Resources (again, I'll include my ideas)
Sugar: Now wheat; with a Brewer and Brewery instead of Distiller/Distillery
Cotton: Now Cattle, cloth becomes leather. (Expert Herder; Master Tanner.)
Tobbaco:

Banana: Now berries
I also want to add in gold in addition to Silver.

I need lots of suggestions, so please offer anything you can! :D

Well, since the map is going to be more land-based, you might afford to swap some of the ships with land-based models. Perhaps the privateer could be replaced with a bandit?

I'll be sending more ideas as they come to me.

I was thinking along similar lines; like making upgradable Wagons and such. I was thinking about making a Bandit unit as well. :D I just finished my first unit for this mod, a Ranger unit (same as a soldier), so I could probably base it off of that. I'm just working on the upload right now, so here is a sneak preview. :)

Tribes:

Apache
Sioux
Crow
Blackfoot
Shoshone
Haida
Pomo
Kiowa
Osage

others

Thanks, but I think I've got the tribes all in. I'm sticking to 8, just the same as Vanilla Col. I can't believe I missed the Cherokee, and subsequently changed them out instead of Cheyenne.

I've actually never heard of the Haida, Kiowa, or Pomo tribes. :sad: The other ones seem smaller/less recognizable, and thats mainly what I'm basing this on.
If you know of any good leaders for these tribes, it would be much appreciated! :D

But it's the west. The Iroquois, Aztecs, Incas, Arawak, Tupi, and Cherokee aren't needed.

I'm not keeping those ones, I've stated the ones I've got down in post 14. Somehow I got the idea for a moment that the Cherokee were Western, but I think they are a 'Trail of Tears' tribe. So now the Crow tribe will take the slot. (Could be the Shoshone also.)

Apache, Blackfoot, Chippewa (Ojibwe), Sioux, Mojave, Navajo, Utes, and Crow are my Indian Tribes.

Oh, I also need to change the name of the Free Colonist; I was thinking Homesteader or something like that. (Pioneer would be the obvious choice, but then I'd need to rename that unit.)

Homesteader works just fine.

Okay, then its official. :)
I also need city names; all that I have is capitals. :sad:
Man, where's a Wild West history buff when you need one...

Okay, then its official. :)
I also need city names; all that I have is capitals. :sad:
Man, where's a Wild West history buff when you need one...

Try this (http://www.legendsofamerica.com/LA-OddPlaceNames.html) link. ;)

Should Mexico be a tribe or rival power?

I may be able to do John Fremont and William Ide for my homeland. But that depends on MareNostrum too.

don't forget to add cattle
grapes and berries were a big of agriculture

Also look at railroad developement as a big issue. maybe make it a special improvement that creates a victory point for every rail you lay and how many cities you connect.

A 4-4-0 American locomotive could supplement wagon trains. I've wanted to see one in Civ for a long time! They're practically the "Wild West," locomotive! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-4-0

@ Geo
Thanks for the link! :)

@ Ekmek
I'm not sure how I should implement Mexico, but they won't be a tribe most likely. Right now all of the States are under the United States, as it seems you have to make them all under one or each has their own Europe. One idea I had though is as follows:
Oregon--> Britain
Deseret--> United States
Texas--> Mexico
California--> Spain?? Something else??
(I'm a bit confused as to how Mexico's role was played out in the West, and how to deal with that.)

I you wanted to do the California LHs, that'd be great! I was going to get into them over this week. I was thinking for Ide probably Lincoln or William, and for Fremont I thought maybe Hannibal or the Spanish King.
I was thinking the Cow + Leather could replace Cotton.
I would have never thought of berries, thanks! (That will be my banana replacement, placed in California.)
I also need new victory conditions, so that would be a good idea. I was thinking something like this:

Independence: same as Vanilla

Statehood: Will use the same mechanic as rebel sentiment. I was thinking I could have both rebel and statehood sentiment, and you would need to try to balance those out.

Development(needs a new name): Based on land, railroads, buildings, and must remove a certain amount (or all) of the native tribes. (There could even be a reservation mechanic, where you have to get the native to be 'quelled' there.)

@ Modeltrainman
Trains will definitely be a big part of the mod; given via the founding fathers (which I want to change into technologies).
They will be beefed up Wagon train, but restricted to railroads.
Do you know of any models around here, or will I need to do it myself?

One more thought I just had. If I make navigable rivers, I would have to implement some sort of bridge system, or find out if I can make a terrain that both water and land units can travel on.
Any thoughts? :D

You could use the 4-4-0 from Railroads! if you have that. I've never seen a Civ4 locomotive, or I'd have gotten it already. Why not make a steamboat for water? And will the mod work on Windows?

... Why not make a steamboat for water? And will the mod work on Windows?

There are already two steamboat models in circulation.

Well, I do not own Railroads, so I couldn't get it from there. (This is the only Windows Version of a Game I own, and I really only play Civ now. ;) ) If no one else rips it for me, I guess it would be a fun model to make.
I am going to make and use a steamboat, but what I mean for the rivers is that if I make navigable rivers, it would basically be coast 1 tile wide snaking through the map. If I did this, it could wind up like broken up islands that the train couldn't get over. I want to either make bridges (I think there is a modcomp like that for CIV) or a new terrain that both land and water units can move on.

As there is no Mac version of this game, I am using a WINE program called Crossover Games to run this on my Mac. So basically if it works for me, it should work for you. :)

Would it be illegal to give it to you? I don't want to do anything wrong.

I think technically ripping anything out of one game to use in the other is illegal, without permission. Technically. ;)

I don't think so. Walter Hawkwood has been ripping models from other games that use nifs and posting them here, and those are completely different companies.
AFAIK it should be perfectly fine, esp. considering I'm not making money on this and its from the same company (unless Railroads! is pre-Firaxis?)

I don't think so. Walter Hawkwood has been ripping models from other games that use nifs and posting them here, and those are completely different companies.
AFAIK it should be perfectly fine, esp. considering I'm not making money on this and its from the same company (unless Railroads! is pre-Firaxis?)

Well that's why i said technically. I'm sure either way the Col side isn't a problem, it would be taking them out of Railroads if anything.

Railroads! is Firaxis'. Maybe you should make your own model,Flintlock1415.

Well that's why i said technically.
I actually was writing my post when you response, so therefore I wasn't responding to you. :p ;)
Railroads! is Firaxis'. Maybe you should make your own model,Flintlock1415.
So that's a no? Being that it is a Firaxis model, that should make it even more okay. I don't necessarily need it, but it would probably look nicer than what I could do, and save me some time. (Quicker release!) :)

Boy, do we need a lawyer to patrol around here, its so confusing! :crazyeye:

I know. It IS confusing. Trains in Civ.......

It is a nice model..But I don't want to get in trouble, or get you in trouble. Maybe you can ask
2K: 2KElizabeth@2kgames.com I should add that 2K didn't mind me making this:http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10658, or this:http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10658, and the stationary used their logos.

I still don't think that you'll get in trouble, but you can ask if it makes you feel better. :) The fact that they don't mind you using their logos seems to further my point.
I'd take the rap for you if you somehow got in trouble :lol: , but I don't know if that would go over so well since I'm only 16... :D

Well, they do know I'm a diehard Firaxis fan...

I'm not sure about replacing the FF's with technologies. If that gets placed, then that would mean only one faction would know how to use a cotton gin. It just doesn't seem that realistic.

A long you doesn't make a money from it, it isn't illegal i think.

I'm not sure about replacing the FF's with technologies. If that gets placed, then that would mean only one faction would know how to use a cotton gin. It just doesn't seem that realistic.

I don't follow your logic. The technologies would look like Civ, but be gained in a similar way to Col.
Each faction can choose what to get as a tech. Its not like I'm making each resource require a tech.
The bonuses would be much the same, with the exception of railroads by tech. The era was full of technological advances i.e. steel plow would give +1 food to plains, steam thresher would improve pioneer build speed, etc.

I guess I could place a name to each technology, but I don't know for sure and I'm still open to suggestions. :)

Your locomotive is here. I got permisson. http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12106

Thank you very much, this will save me a lot of time! :goodjob:

I just hope it'll work in Colonization, supposedly, Railroads! assets are hard to get into Civ4 engine games. That's probably because Railroads! wasn't built on the Civ 4 engine,(I don't think,)What's the purpose of the locomotive going to be? Transport? Here's it in motion:

I wonder if you can make this unit only move on tiles with railroads :dunno:

Well, its a nif, so it should work, even if it needs a little coaxing. I'm wondering about how high the poly count is though. I'll import into Blender, reduce the count if needed, and export for Civ 4.

I guess we'll have to see how it goes. :p
Edit:
@ Ekmek
I know that someone (I think Jeckel) made a modcomp that did this.

Can you use the animations from Railroads? And maybe train sounds, so it moves and sounds like a train? What's its purpose anyway? Transport?

I'm pretty sure the animations should still work. I will add train sounds, but probably not for the first release. (I don't play with sounds on, so if I can get a team together, I'll get someone else to do that. :p )
The train will be a faster, higher capacity version of the Wagon train, and hopefully I can make railroads a part of the victory conditions.

Wow, this might be my dream mod. Also, I uploaded a file for Railroads! that changes dates and speeds of locomotives. Feel free to incorporate that:http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12110, I learned limited XML from it. Also, would it be possible to rebuild Railroads! on the Colonization engine in this mod?

Flintlock1415, I'm not an artist, but I'd like to offer these textures for your wild west mod.

Hmm, looks interesting. I'm not so sure what you're asking; are you trying to make a railroads mod with Colonization? I've never played Railroads, so I'm not so sure as to the mechanics that you'd need to introduce.

I would guess that it would be possible, but depending on the differences in the game, I'd guess that you'd need to know your way around a C++ file (or find another person who is good at using the SDK). ;)
EDIT: Just saw your new post. I'm assuming your working on getting those up?

Yes, here they are: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=my. I was curious abut Railroads! in Colonization because it sounded like what you were trying to do. Hope the textures wotk well. I made them myself. No, I'm not trying to make one.
I should add that they're under Colonization Downloads.I made them specifically for this mod.

Thanks for the terrain textures, but I think that I'm going to use the railroad terrain from Civ 4. I may need to make a new river terrain, pending on whether I use bridges or not. This won't necessarily be a Railroads! mod, but it will make railroads a major part of the gameplay. Once again, I've never played Railroads! so any similarities are purely coincidental. ;)

FWIW, I've reduced the poly count from 2271 faces down to 1824, so -447 faces. (The wagon train has 1506, so I think the game can handle 1824.) I'll try to add it in to Colonization, and see if it works or not. It has a nice shader, so it might just work right off the bat.

Thanks for your help and interest in this mod, Modeltrainman! :goodjob:

You're welcome, Flintlock! I can't wait to play it!

Once you get the loco in Colonization can you post a screenshot? I want to see how it looks outside of its intended game.

You must've read my mind, I was just coming here to put it up. The unit went in with minimal resistance; I only had to make a few changes to get it to look right.

So here it is, in all of its glory!
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8895/440trainq.png
I think I'll upload this in one unit pack with my other Wild West units, ie the pistoleer, ranger, and cavalry.

It's awesome, one question though, why is it gray? Shouldn't it be red? Or blue? Do you want me to paint it? That I can do. Is it animated?

Gray was the color of the texture in the file you gave me. It looks better/more realistic than a blue or red train would imo; I don't think that trains were red or blue during those days. I think gray is best, unless you would like to put a little teamcolor on it.
Yes it is animated, but it looks a little funny since it goes even when you don't move the unit. Its not a big deal, though.

I think it should be team colored. That particular type of locomotive was painted red! And blue. See: http://www.megahobby.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=954

See this for color photo: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/promontory/jupiter-sanders.jpg

It would be nice to have some teamcolor on it, yet I've never done it, and I'm scared that if added the transparencies might wind up teamcolored. The model is quite different than ones I've seen; the rounded and detailed parts of the model are largely made up of cubes and planes, but they just use alpha channels to give a rounded effect.

Most Civ models are fully 3d models, because the alpha channel is used to make teamcolor.
IDK, it would be nice to see a texturing expert's opinion...

Didn't it come with a .dds file? That should have its color. In Railroads! its default is blue.

Yea, the colors in the dds were gray. Does railroads get its color from somewhere else? Or is there another texture that I need?

I don't know. When I paint trains I just paint the .dds.

It seems the models us multiple .dds files; maybe there is another one in a different folder. Also I noticed that the texture size is rather large for Civ, so I'll try to reduce its size.

I gave you all I had for the 4-4-0. Here's the color stuff, I think. I searched through everything I had. I just color the emsk.dds.

Here's a set of color files.

You must've read my mind, I was just coming here to put it up. The unit went in with minimal resistance; I only had to make a few changes to get it to look right.

So here it is, in all of its glory!
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8895/440trainq.png
I think I'll upload this in one unit pack with my other Wild West units, ie the pistoleer, ranger, and cavalry.
:eek:
It's very beautiful!!

Here's what I think colors it. We need somebody who understands player color in Civ/Railroads!

Well the emsk is all black and is the same as one included in the train folder. I can tell from the color files you gave me that teamcolor is generated in very different ways. I'm sure it would be possible to color it, but it would be difficult to get teamcolor.

Can a texture guru help us out please?

It could be easily skinned so that there is the red and blue touches to it, but it would be more difficult to add teamcolor. What would you think would look best?

Let's just skin it, and make it red. Let's not worry about team color. Maybe you could make railroads be controlled by railroad companies somehow and locomotives could be captured, or gifted and used by any faction.

Okay, sounds like a plan. :)
It would be complicated to add companies in, so at least for the first release it will only work as the route restricted, beefed up wagon trains.
Once this gets really rolling that will be something considered for discussion.

Okay. I can't wait!

Okay, I think I'm going to make each faction a derivative of one mother country. I need some ideas on starting cities and renaming of the Europe civs. (Esp. California)

Colony: Mother-> Start city/Location

Deseret: United States-> St. Louis/East (Missouri)
Texas: Mexico-> ??/Southeast (Rio Grande)
Oregon: Gr. Britain-> ??/Northwest (British Colombia)
California: Spain??-> Monterey/Southwest (West Coast)

^That's good.

California: Spain??-> ??/Southwest (Baja California, maybe?)

Los Angeles of course. The hometown of Zorro and other rebellious nobleman. ;)
Not to mention San Diego.

I think I'm going to use Monterey as the home city, as it seemed to have been Spain's Capital of California until 1821 (Mexican Independence.) I don't think LA was big until it became a US city, so it will be a colony a bit after San Diego.

I'm just concerned that Mexico and Spain will both be mother countries, but it should work out.

Civ isn't known for historical accuracy ;)

Ah, of course, then this makes sense. :lol:

Flintock1415. How's the locomotive coming?

I actually haven't gotten into it yet, since I've was working on the XML all of yesterday and I was gone for Easter today.
I'll probably get into the graphics a little more tonight and over the course of the week.

Sounds good. I can't wait to use it.

Okay just a small sign of progress here, I've got most of the train texture finished, I just need to color the main body. I've just left GIMP open and done a little texturing here and there. I've been mainly focused on XML and unit graphics, so this isn't all I've been working on. :p (Although school has been quite busy lately.)

I'll do a a quick run down of what I've done thus far + a pict of the Half-done train:

Civs:
All in, with the exception of Native tribes (need leader names!)
I've done the flags for them, but I still need to do some major leaderhead making, but its likely there will be placeholders in the 1st release. (I tried do a Houston LH one night, but I f***ed it up. I've at least got the texture done, though.)

This also reminds me; Ekmek (if you ever read this), could PLEASE put Santa Anna up separately, I really would like him for my mod, but I don't want to have to pillage Wolfshanze's mod to get it.

Units:
Not a whole lot done, just got the Ranger (Soldier), Cavalry (Dragoon) and some animations from SeZereth for a Pistol shooter (for the unarmed Regular and Veteran Soldier.)
I've got all 3 versions of the Ranger and Cavalry (Regular, Veteran, and Colonist), but I'm still a ways off from being done. I need to think of a new name for the Regular; it was originally going to be US Cavalry, until I threw in Mexico, Britain, and Spain.

I will not have every unit made up for the 1st release; it will likely only be a new homesteader (free colonist) and pioneer. I want to get this sucker cranked out so others can help me. (Esp. with the Gamefont file, it is practically impossible for me to figure that out on my Mac!)

Resources/Buildings:
I've basically got all the art for resources (mostly from Vanilla Civ), its just a matter of putting them in properly.
I probably won't be focusing on buildings (aside from names which are already in) for the first release.

I don't know what else I'm forgetting, but I'll post more screenshots once I get more things to show off. :)
Please keep offering suggestions, I really need some! (See post 14 for what I can't think of myself.)

Which leaders are you using? I might be able to help in that department.

Lets see, I need Brigham Young, William B. Ide, Sam Houston, Stephen F. Austin, John McLouglin, and John C. Fremont.

I'm going to redo Houston this weekend, and Ekmek *might* do Ide and Fremont. So really if you wanted to do Young, Austin, or McLoughlin, that'd be cool. :)

Looks to be a cool mod.

Flintlock:
I would suggest changing the Californian mother country to Mexico; California, New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas were all part of Mexican territory post-independence, until the Mexican-American war.

In a perfect world, I could do that, but unfortunately the game only allows one mother country. I could make another Mexico, but I think it would look worse to have two Mexican civs, rather than Spain and Mexico. California (as well as Mexico itself) was very much a part of New Spain, until 1821. This mod won't exactly make perfect chronology, but to me its close enough. :p

Okay, I've got a finished version of the train; how's it look?

I also just got the routes restricted for the Train. :D I was wondering if there was a way to get units to be able to load into the train (and hopefully have the AI know about it?)

So right now, these are my priorities for the first release:
Get the railroad to look/work properly. I don't know how it will react to being built over the road route; I want it to work like Civ 4. Also I still need to get the art in for the route.

Next, for the XML work I need to get the Indian Civs squared away, esp. the Leader names. I also need to get the resources in properly.

Art is next up; I'd like to finish most(all) of the leaderheads, make unarmed soldiers/regulars, and make a free colonist and Pioneer. I will also do a custom main menu, but I won't have a custom interface, and most of the buttons and City/Euro screen icons will not be in.

If I'm feeling ambitious enough, I may get a rough version of the map script, but that will most likely have to wait for a later release.

Is this the beginning of my Deadwood dream from 3 years ago? :p

Maybe. Wanna join the team once the first version gets out? ;)

I also just got the routes restricted for the Train. :D I was wondering if there was a way to get units to be able to load into the train (and hopefully have the AI know about it?)

So right now, these are my priorities for the first release:
Get the railroad to look/work properly. I don't know how it will react to being built over the road route; I want it to work like Civ 4. Also I still need to get the art in for the route.

Next, for the XML work I need to get the Indian Civs squared away, esp. the Leader names. I also need to get the resources in properly.

Art is next up; I'd like to finish most(all) of the leaderheads, make unarmed soldiers/regulars, and make a free colonist and Pioneer. I will also do a custom main menu, but I won't have a custom interface, and most of the buttons and City/Euro screen icons will not be in.

If I'm feeling ambitious enough, I may get a rough version of the map script, but that will most likely have to wait for a later release.

Find the code that lets rail replace road in Civ IV and copy paste (with editing). This will help significantly.

To get units loading in the train, commandeer some wagon train code and modify it appropriately. If you've set it up as just another unit, then it might be as simple as editing the XML. I haven't checked.

Maybe. Wanna join the team once the first version gets out? ;)

I'll test it certainly and add some ideas, but I think my team days are behind me.

@ PiMan
Do you know where the code is done for rails? (i.e. XML or dll)

@ Woodelf
Thats cool. I could use some ideas, though. ;)

I think it is spread around all three parts to some degree. What a recommend you do, is open every Civ IV C++ file in something like notepad++, and then do a search for "rail". Then do the same for the python and XML.

Sounds a bit tedious. :) I wonder if I would be able to compile a new dll with my Mac. :sad: It can't read the files, so that would likely mean I can't compile them. (I'll ask AlanH.)

I recommended notepad++ because it has tabbed files (like tabbed pages for browsers) and has a feature to search every open file and list every result.
To find every result takes all of half a minute from the moment you open notepad++. You can then ignore many of them based on the file name.

Actually I don't know if I can use Notepad++, because Crossover can't handle many third party programs. I have one for my Mac anyway w/ a search function (and much more!) so I'm fine there. ;)
I just think that even a half-minute times all of the files may take a little bit, but I think I can do it. :)

The locomotive looks wonderful, but shouldn't the headlight be red or the dark blue of the body , instead of light blue?

:confused: I don't see any light blue, unless you are looking at the Nifskope screenshot. I posted a second one; like this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211174&d=1240024208
You've been gone for a few days, so I got some nice work done. ;) (I got the train route restrictor to work, in case you didn't see that. :) )

Actually I don't know if I can use Notepad++, because Crossover can't handle many third party programs. I have one for my Mac anyway w/ a search function (and much more!) so I'm fine there. ;)
I just think that even a half-minute times all of the files may take a little bit, but I think I can do it. :)

half minute for all the C++ at once.

That quick huh? Hopefully I can come up with something. :)

I can't wait for this mod!

I like the train model. If you upload the latest version - I can look at getting some team colour on there. If we keep team colour to the non-curved surfaces it should work OK.

Okay, cool! You'd have to separate the teamcolored parts though, right? Because if you used TCivSkinning, the curved parts would all become teamcolor, I think.
Anyway, you probably already know this, so here you go:

If I download the train, does it come with everything it needs to be plopped into Colonization?

Yes, all the art is there, you just need to XML it in.

I'll have to wait then, I don't want to mess up my game. I broke my Beyond the Sword install that way once.

When you mod, just make sure that you DON'T edit the original files, just copy them into a mod folder. Then you can screw up as much as you need until you can figure it out. ;)

Okay, cool! You'd have to separate the teamcolored parts though, right? Because if you used TCivSkinning, the curved parts would all become teamcolor, I think.

Here you go - team color trains. Obviously I could only team color the non curved bits. Also I did a bit of tidy up here and there. Hope they fit the bill.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=212052&stc=1&d=1240678519

Is it possible to bring the flag in front of the train's funnel? It is difficult to see as is.

Wow, thanks a million Deliverator! These are awesome! :goodjob:

@Piman
I think its just the angle at which the screenshot was taken. Bringing it in front would get in the way of the train imo.

Yeah, I think it's just because I took the screenshot from an unusual angle.

These are really great.. They look like they did when they were in Railroads!

I haven't heard anything in a while. How's it progressing?

I anticipated this sort of post. :sad:
I haven't had a lot of time to mod, so this is kind in a halt mod. (Although my posting habits might suggest otherwise. :p )
I just got a new job (30 hours a week + high school = no free time!) and I have a couple of AP tests coming up, so I'm pretty well strapped.

I'm excited to try out the new nifscripts so I can try to fix up my art, so once I do get time, I'll jump right back into this. (I have next weekend off, so hopefully I'll start in then.)

This mod is far from done, just shoved to the back of my priority list until I get everything sorted out.

How's the mod coming?

Well, honestly I haven't made any updates to it for about 6 weeks now. :sad: I just got out of school, so I should have more time to mod, but recently I've been getting into more programming in Objective-C/Cocoa and playing around with the Blender game engine.
I've finally got a bit of time opened up, and as the summer goes on I'll get even more until school starts again. I guess we'll just have to see if I feel more like modding Civ or programming. (It would also help a lot if more people were interesting in modding Col...)

Just a quick idea here, but what do you guys think would work better; keep this for Col or transplant what I have to BTS (assuming I get it running?) It would work nicely for the railroads, and there would be a much larger fanbase.

Please stay with colonization! The game mechanics will work much better and make the game far more interesting. You'll be able to get a fanbase. As far as the mod, I'd like to help, unfortunately I doubt there's really all that much I could do. However, I can give you some ideas.

St. Louis as a home port is a good idea, just make a fairly arbitrary city surrounded by Europe tiles, "Europe" of course being the United States. As far as getting to the home city, Wagon trains and railroads have already been brought up, and are good ideas (it would especially assist the western feel if bandits on the way home were a threat). You could also have navigable rivers ala the Chinese Unification warlords scenario and use river barges. I know that to have rivers all the way out west doesn't work for everything, but rivers would be a help if players build cities along the rivers, then wagon-train supplies to the riverain cities and send them back to the home port that way.

As for your forth civ, I would recommend Cascadia or the Republic of the Pacific, both the same state, just different names. The names refer to an idea of a republic formed from northern california, oregon, washington, and british columbia. Yes, I'll admit it's somewhat fanciful, but this whole mod will wind up being that way. The idea is atleast well grounded, and meshes well with your other states As far as leaders, there's always George Abernathy, first governor of oregon's provisional government, John Mcloughlin, head of a prominent fur company at fort vancouver who advocated for an independent state, and the co-founders of portland, Asa Lovejoy and Francis Pettygrove.

Personally for the above leader choice I would like to see George Abernathy and Asa Lovejoy(Lovejoy was more politically prominent than Abernathy, despite losing a coin toss to name portland)

Here's a flag too. http://republic-of-cascadia.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/doug_flag_flat3.jpg

I have a bunch of western music you could use, however, I'm not sure about whether or not it would be okay to use it. the fellows at the ancient mediterranean mod have used images and music from some recent movies, and there's plenty of other similar cases, so if it's not a problem I could email you some music!

As far as the mexico situation, I think it would best as a tribe. That way they'd allow a the first city to be founded (like the texas settlers), but more land would anger them, you'd have to pay, and eventually fight them. Sending your units to mexican cities to Learn professions also works. The only problem I can see with making them a tribe is establishing missions and getting presents form the chief (i.e treasure). I don't know, perhaps they'd also work as a fifth civ that's just on the map.

In the future, perhaps the Canadian west could be included?

I'll also see about getting together some citylists and founding fathers for you.

I'll help however I can, I'd love to see this, and I think it has great potential, as a Nevadan I endorse this mod! :goodjob:

Cascadia City List
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PORTLAND
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_EUGENE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SEATTLE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SPOKANE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VICTORIA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VANCOUVER
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KLAMATH
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_JUNEAU
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_YREKA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MOUNT_SHASTA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LAKE_CITY
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_OLYMPIA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KELOWNA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_WALLA_WALLA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TACOMA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LONGVIEW
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SUMMERLAND
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MACKENZIE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KELOWNA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MISSOULA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BOISE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SALEM
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CANYON_CITY
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_HAWK_INLET
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_WRANGELL
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_HADLEY
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SURREY

Bear Republic City List
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SACRAMENTO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NEW_HELVETIA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAN_FRANSISCO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_STOCKTON
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MODESTO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FRESNO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SALINAS
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NAPA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VISALIA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_REDDING
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LOS_ANGELES
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAN_DIEGO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAN_JOSE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TRUCKEE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SANTA_CRUZ
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ANAHEIM
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SANTA_BARBARA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SANTA_ANA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_YUCCA_VALLEY
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_HESPERIA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SUTTERS_CREEK
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SONOMA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PASADENA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CARLSBAD
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BARSTOW
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ROSEVILLE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BIG_SUR


Deseret State
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SALT_LAKE_CITY
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_OGDEN
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_EPHRAIM
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FILLMORE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MOUNTAIN_MEADOWS
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NEW_ZION
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GUNNISON
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_NEPHI
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LEHI
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_JOSEPH_CITY
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CEDAR_CITY
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GRAND_JUNCTION
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_HERBER_OVERGAARD
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_OREM
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PLEASANT_GROVE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PAYSON
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VERNAL
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_RICHFIELD
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FILLMORE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MONROE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MOAB
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GREEN_RIVER
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PANGUITCH
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ST_GEORGE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_KANAB
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MANTI
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LEE’S FERRY

Republic of Texas
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_COLUMBIA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GALVESTON
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_HOUSTON
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_AUSTIN
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAN_ANTONIO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VELASO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_HARRISBURG
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_EL_PASO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BEAUMONT
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LAREDO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_LUBBOCK
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_ABILENE
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_WICHITA_FALLS
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_AMARILLO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FORT_WORTH
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TEXARKANA
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_CORPUS_CHRISTI
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_DENTON
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_DALLAS
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_BIG_SPRING
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MIDLAND
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_SAN_ANGELO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_GARLAND
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_TYLER
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_DEL_RIO
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MARBLE_FALLS
CityList=TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_MESQUITE

Glad to see someone so interested in the mod!

I think you copied the Deseret citylist into the Texas list by mistake.

That I did! Texas Fixed!. I'm working on some founding fathers as well as leader traits. I might actually take up XML editing for this mod, I'd love to help out!

Here's the founding fathers ideas I have so far (it's late, I'll try to crack out 52+ ideas though)

John Coffee Hays- +25% Great General Emergence, Free promotion Skirmisher I, Minuteman I for gunpowder and Mounted Units

Jedidiah Smith- Free Promotion Mountaineer I, Mountaineer 2 for gunpowder units

John William Mackay- +50% Silver per settlement

James Marshall- +25% gold per settlement

Samuel Clemens- +3 bells per printing press and colonist

Bartleston-Bidwell Party- Gives 1 Wagon and 1 Free Colonist(Homesteader?)


Here are some I'll be trying to work in
Pierre-Jean De Smets, Helped map indian territories, probably +25% cheaper purchases? Maybe revealing all sioux settlements or something? Similar to Sepulveda.

Theodore Judah- Something to do with trains. Cheaper Railroad costs

Liver-Eating Johnson- +50% pillaging, maybe free promotion for combat bonus against natives? Man deserves to be in this mod if you ask me.

EDIT: well, I'm more well rested, I can be of help to this mod, I've started working with the XML to produce leaders, traits, and colonies. It won't have any new artwork, just working on the mechanics first. Not worried about the art though, CFKane, the mod is you're idea and you're also good with leader-heads. I'll be using your brigham young LH for the moment for, brigham young.

Wow! This is some damn good work! :goodjob:
I think I should start back in on this mod again, though how soon I don't know. The city list is especially useful, thanks! I think maybe if I finished off the civs (esp. tribes), get my Houston lh done, and figure out the railroads, I could get a rough beta out pretty quick. Then we could work on the mod together.

I'm really interested in the idea of Cascadia. I have Oregon in right now, but it would be a simple switch as Cascadia seems to be near the same just expanded a ways.

thank you for kicking my ass back into modding! :D

I'm really willing to help, so yeah, PM me I guess and I can see if theres anything I can do to help you.

Flintlock, if you want, I'll try to help with the XML.

Glad to see someone so interested in the mod!

I think you copied the Deseret citylist into the Texas list by mistake.

UPDATED POWERS

Cascadia- Britain or Canada

California- United States

Deseret- Spain (they went to Spain to colonize, not US, and it would free up the US for the Bear Flag Republic)

Texas- Mexico

UPDATED POWERS

Cascadia- Britain or Canada

California- United States

Deseret- Spain (they went to Spain to colonize, not US, and it would free up the US for the Bear Flag Republic)

Texas- Mexico


Why not just make them all subject to the united states? It makes more sense.

Why not just make them all subject to the united states? It makes more sense.

We talked about that, and at the moment programming all factions to have the same parent is a bit too complicated.

Unless there's another Colonization mod that creates a single King for all nations, this won't likely happen

Check the Australia mod, they all have the same Queen... think that's Piman's work, tho i may be wrong (again!) :)

Why not just make them all subject to the united states? It makes more sense.

Because Texas wasn't revolting from the US, when the Mormons went to Utah it was still part of Spain, and we didn't own Oregon until 1846.

This mod looks great!:goodjob:
Geuss im a bit late, but id love to help with the xml too!:)

Is this coming along, or has it stalled?

I think it's stalled:sad:

Yea, its stalled. I was planning on working on it a bit before, but I got really sidetracked with trying to learn how to program. Its really getting interesting and I don't plan on starting in again anytime soon. I might come back if I get the urge, but for now I'm going to learn to program and maybe start making my own games.

I'll post what I have now on tuesday, if anyone wants to take the project over. the things that I can think of that need to be done are: fix the railroads, add Cfkane's Brigham Young, add the city names, and change Oregon to Cascadia. (Yeah, I've been lazy, I know.)

If you're interested in taking over, let me know (although I'll likely still put it up regardless.)

I'd be willing to help out with some things- I could easily do the city lists and the name change.

What is wrong with the railroads?

Well they restrict just fine, its just that they look like roads without any connections and you can only place them via worldbuilder (ie they can't be built.)

I'm sure if you went through all of the files you could just copy the road's info for a second route.

Okay, well here is the file. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12813)

Hopefully someone will fix this mod up into something nice!

I've downloaded it. Will start working on it, fix text errors.

By "add the leaderhead", do you mean I have to add the art or the actual LeaderheadInfo in the file of that name?

Just the art. CFKane made a nice leaderhead for me, but I never added it. :sad: All of the leaderhead XML should be in, just not the art.

Just the art. CFKane made a nice leaderhead for me, but I never added it. :sad: All of the leaderhead XML should be in, just not the art.

So far I've:

1. Renamed Oregon to Cascadia.
2. Added in all four city lists.
3. Downloaded the art for Brigham Young.

Now, there seem to be a lot more files in the art directory for Brigham Young than I need... and I'm not certain how the Leaderhead art XML works, so this may be a stupid question, but which files go where? Below was my best guess...

<LeaderheadArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_LEADER_YOUNG</Type>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Civilizations/Colonization_Civilizations_Leaders.dds,4,2</Button>
<NIF>art/LeaderHeads/Young/brigham young.nif</NIF>
<KFM>art/LeaderHeads/Young/Charlemagne.kfm</KFM>
<BackgroundKFM>Art/LeaderHeads/Young/alexander_BG.kfm</BackgroundKFM>
</LeaderheadArtInfo>

I only needed three files, but there's a lot more in there.

Further, which button numbers should the art use?

Your artdefines look good to me. ;)

I'd just leave the buttons alone for now, since the lh didn't come with a button. Once/if you make the buttons for the leaderheads, I'd just make a folder called leaderheads in the same directory as the game (<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Civilizations/Leaderheads/yourleader.dds</Button>)

Make sure you leave out the commas though, the game uses one file to put all of the buttons on and grab the ones they need from the numbers, hence the commas for separation. Just make them individual files, and reference them that way for ease.

Okay, I think I'm going to start modding again, but I'm going to focus on my Battle of Hastings mod (see link in my sig and this post. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8276948&postcount=183))
I plan on being around here to help out though, so TC01, if you need anything, I'll (try) to help. I don't know how back and for I'll be between programming and modding (just look at the last few pages to see how much of a waffle I am! :crazyeye: ) but hopefully I won't totally run off again.

I hope that this mod can generate some interest, and I hope to offer at least some help arond here!

Okay, I think I'm going to start modding again, but I'm going to focus on my Battle of Hastings mod (see link in my sig and this post. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8276948&postcount=183))
I plan on being around here to help out though, so TC01, if you need anything, I'll (try) to help. I don't know how back and for I'll be between programming and modding (just look at the last few pages to see how much of a waffle I am! :crazyeye: ) but hopefully I won't totally run off again.

I hope that this mod can generate some interest, and I hope to offer at least some help arond here!

Okay, thanks.

I'll start working on the railroads code.

I've solved one mystery- why the railroads were unbuildable.

The BUILD_RAILROAD existed in BuildInfos.xml... but was never assigned to any unit in UnitInfos.xml. So the command existed but no unit was capable of executing it. So they can be built (now that I gave every colonist unit the ability to do so).

The odd thing is that they connect to a nearby road, but not to another railroad. (However, my trains can move only on the railroads, even though they don't appear connected, and can't travel on the graphically connected road).

Well, at least the script works. ;)
Does the railroad still look like a road or did you get the railroad art to show up?

Well, at least the script works. ;)
Does the railroad still look like a road or did you get the railroad art to show up?

No... which I suspect is the reason why the railroad connects to a road and not to a railroad...


I'm running PakBuild as I write this to unpack the main Civilization 4 art files to search for the railroad art, copy it into WestwardHo art, and then copy over the RouteModelInfos.

So it's not done yet, but will be soon.

No... which I suspect is the reason why the railroad connects to a road and not to a railroad...

I was right.

Making the railroad art show up fixed the "railroads not connecting to other railroads" problem. They still connect to roads but they are supposed to, so this isn't a problem.


I think I'll add in Quantumf8's Founding Fathers from the last page. They seem fine, I just have to figure out where to replace the other FFs with and which category to put them in first.

Nice to see the railroads are in working order. :goodjob:

After the founding fathers, I think art, buttons, and a new map script are the major concerns, anything else?

Nice to see the railroads are in working order. :goodjob:

After the founding fathers, I think art, buttons, and a new map script are the major concerns, anything else?

Don't think there's anything else- except for maybe renaming some of the yields?

I can work on the mapscript, but someone else will have to do the artwork.

John Coffee Hays- +25% Great General Emergence, Free promotion Skirmisher I, Minuteman I for gunpowder and Mounted Units Replacing Dom Pedro I

Jedidiah Smith- Free Promotion Mountaineer I, Mountaineer 2 for gunpowder units Replacing Ethan Allen

John William Mackay- +50% Silver per settlement Replacing Eli Whitney

James Marshall- +25% gold per settlement Replacing John Jacob Astor

Samuel Clemens- +3 bells per printing press and colonist Replacing Ben Franklin

Bartleston-Bidwell Party- Gives 1 Wagon and 1 Free Colonist(Homesteader?) Replacing Diego Velazquez de Cuellar


Here are some I'll be trying to work in
Pierre-Jean De Smets, Helped map indian territories, probably +25% cheaper purchases? Maybe revealing all sioux settlements or something? Similar to Sepulveda. Replacing William Brewster

Theodore Judah- Something to do with trains. Cheaper Railroad costs Not sure what to do for this one

Liver-Eating Johnson- +50% pillaging, maybe free promotion for combat bonus against natives? Man deserves to be in this mod if you ask me. Replacing Francisco Pizarro

Do those look okay? I'm not sure where Theodore Judah should go, cheaper railroads seems to have little comparison against any existing FF.

Natives would need to be a LOT more aggressive.

I would say not. There were a few groups during the expansion West that got alot of attention due to some small-scale wars and raiding that went out, but they were tiny in number and low in terms of actual impact. Nothing even approaching the kind of campaigns conducted in the East by groups like the Iroqouis. The warfare in the east just doesn't make that much impression in the modern imagination because, for the most part, they predate US history, and the most aggressive and warlike groups fought for the English rather than against them, so warfare involving natives in the east remains more obscure. But the warfare was definately more intensive, right into the 1800s (eg War of 1812, Tecumseh's campaigns and the surrender of Detroit and so on). During the initial phase of colonization in the east, in conflicts with natives, Europeans were almost always greatly outnumbered. But in the west, the opposite was true.

The big difference is that by the time westward expansion began, natives were better armed and had more extensively taken up use of the horse. They were tiny in number, but presented a headache for the authorities and colonists because they were much more mobile and, individually, a mounted man with a repeating rifle presented a much greater threat than a man on foot with an axe and a musket. But overall they just weren't capable of offering the kind of resistance seen in episodes like the French experience with the Iroqouis, or the English experience during King Phillips' War, or numerous other episodes. They just didn't have the numbers.

As a mapscript, I'm thinking the Great Plains.py mapscript from the original Civilization 4 would be a good base. Granted, it would have to be altered to add in the new terrains and change the dimensions, but these are the regions the mapscript defines:

1. Rockies
2. Plains
3. Eastern Grasslands
4. The Gulf
5. Ozarks
6. SW Desert

The grasslands should probably be cut (or moved to the other side of the Rockies), and there probably should be some ice terrain in the Rockies or to the north. But I think I like the look of it.

Nice to see you're still on this, I was afraid you would get tied up in the many other projects you seem to have. :)

Anyway, take a look at this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=316165). Its the mother cities on the map modcomp from Mare Nostrum. I wanted to use it on the Great Plains map, and I discussed it with Koma13 a little if you read the rest of the comments.

Nice to see you're still on this, I was afraid you would get tied up in the many other projects you seem to have. :)

Anyway, take a look at this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=316165). Its the mother cities on the map modcomp from Mare Nostrum. I wanted to use it on the Great Plains map, and I discussed it with Koma13 a little if you read the rest of the comments.

Merging in the Home Cities on Map is probably a good idea. The cities can start in the grassy area in the east- perhaps, in order to encourage "westward exploration", yields that originate in grass should be worth less then those in other terrains? The gulf coast can be moved to the western edge of the map. Rockies are already in the map.

That just leaves adding rivers, which I'm not quite sure how to do. The Great Plains mapscript (and mapscripts like the Final Frontier ones) have code like this:

def normalizeAddRiver():
return None


So possibly removing this will make rivers be generated?

I'm wondering if getting a mod forum for this mod might be the next thing to do for this mod?

That way we could have individual discussion topics and stop cluttering up this thread. It'd probably be at least as active as the Mare Nostrum forum...

I'm wondering if getting a mod forum for this mod might be the next thing to do for this mod?

That way we could have individual discussion topics and stop cluttering up this thread. It'd probably be at least as active as the Mare Nostrum forum...

I actually planned this once I released a Beta for the mod :D
Maybe release what you have and then PM a moderator (Thunderfall?) to ask for a development forum.

I actually planned this once I released a Beta for the mod :D
Maybe release what you have and then PM a moderator (Thunderfall?) to ask for a development forum.

I'll do that as soon as I add in the four remaining Founding Fathers that I have not yet added in (because, as you said, I was working on other projects). However, that should take less than an hour or half hour. So there should soon be a release, and then possibly a forum, after I finish documenting stuff for a readme.

It's released! Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=329909) is the new thread in the Mods and Files forum.

I'll see about getting a forum.

I made a comment on the MOD forum proper, and I would like to add something to that if I could. I think that utilizing some of the scripts that Aymerick has used in his Plantation Mod (and others) to include yields of different resources would be a good addition. I would like to see cloth kept, while replacing tobacco and rum, both of which were not produced in the west. The cattle -> leather one is good, as an addition to cloth. Perhaps something like gold, or some other western-based resource would be beneficial.

I made a comment on the MOD forum proper, and I would like to add something to that if I could. I think that utilizing some of the scripts that Aymerick has used in his Plantation Mod (and others) to include yields of different resources would be a good addition. I would like to see cloth kept, while replacing tobacco and rum, both of which were not produced in the west. The cattle -> leather one is good, as an addition to cloth. Perhaps something like gold, or some other western-based resource would be beneficial.

Good ideas, but some things:

Note that bonus placement does not occur on mapscripts. It's done by the SDK (and controlled via XML). So you wouldn't have to have a new mapscript- although as I mentioned, we are getting a new mapscript, some time in the future.

If you look at the list of things to do, you'll note that renaming/adding yields is on the list (with "gold!" in parenthesis). One of the founding fathers suggested by quantumf8 deals with gold- I made him deal with silver for now.

In game, the Rum buildings have been renamed to Brewery, Brewer's House, Brewer's Shop. However, apparently Rum itself hasn't been renamed? In any event, renaming Rum to Beer is a next-patch change. (Unless you think something else should be used in it's place.)

What should replace tobacco --> cigars?

Maybe Coats should be replaced by Leather instead of Cloth?

Good ideas, but some things:

Note that bonus placement does not occur on mapscripts. It's done by the SDK (and controlled via XML). So you wouldn't have to have a new mapscript- although as I mentioned, we are getting a new mapscript, some time in the future.

Ok sounds good. I'm not a coder, so you're kind of talking a foreign language, but I get what you mean :-)

If you look at the list of things to do, you'll note that renaming/adding yields is on the list (with "gold!" in parenthesis). One of the founding fathers suggested by quantumf8 deals with gold- I made him deal with silver for now.

Awesome about the gold. I think that will be a good addition. Also, I didn't go through all nine pages of comments, so I apologize for not having caught that list the first go around.

In game, the Rum buildings have been renamed to Brewery, Brewer's House, Brewer's Shop. However, apparently Rum itself hasn't been renamed? In any event, renaming Rum to Beer is a next-patch change. (Unless you think something else should be used in it's place.)

I think a brewery is fine. Perhaps something like moonshine? Dunno. I would think liquor of some sort would be fine, but rum just wasn't one people made in the west.

What should replace tobacco --> cigars?

Maybe Coats should be replaced by Leather instead of Cloth?

I actually think that you could replace both of these with one thing: cattle. You could convert cattle to food (or beef) with a Butcher (to replace tobacco -> cigars). And then cattle -> leather with a Tanner (to replace the furs -> coats). Also, similar to coffee in Aymerick's Plantation Economy, oranges could be a cash crop for the wild west, considering that they've been around in California since the 1850s.

Someone else mentioned having the initial unit be a wagon train that functions as a settler. I like that idea a lot, too. I think it would give a nice dynamic. And then maybe a stagecoach unit to act as the land transportation before you get locomotives (?).

One more thing: perhaps a new leader for the Deseret would be Jim Bridger, who was Brigham Young's advisor. I'm not Mormon; I just grew up in Utah, and we had to learn these things :-) He was very aware that the area near Salt Lake City was not hospitable for crops - maybe something about that could be his attribute. Just a thought.

Thanks for the quick response. Took a break from playing to check on things here :-) Back to the game now.

Thanks for the quick response. Took a break from playing to check on things here :-) Back to the game now.

I type fast, and actually I'm taking a break from my own Civ game (not Westward Ho, though) to type this. Hope you have fun!


Making one yield produce two other yields is something I want to investigate. It's... probably possible, but I want to make sure. I had intended to hold off on messing with the yields until if/when we got our forum, where I was going to open a topic called "New Yields", or something like that and get people's suggestions. But now I think I'll put some of your ideas in for one of the next couple mini-versions/patches and then bring up the topic again in the future.

I could have Oranges and Gold replace Tobacco and Cigars, but I'd rather get a new "western" good out, and then add these yields in.

Making Beef work like Fish do would be cool (seperate symbol but same yield.)

I'd be happy to add a new Deserets leader. The only issue is what leaderhead image to use.

The transport plan is rather complicated at the moment. Here's what was originally proposed:

-Make home city (Europe) be on map, like in this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=316165).
-Start in said home city with your starting units.
-Use Wagon Trains at first to move stuff to them and trade.
-As you build up, make railroads between your home cities and your colonies.
-Use Locomotives (which move faster and will carry more) to go across railroads.

The idea you mention came from Kailric. I think it would be good. The only minor problem is that you would then loose your only transport, and would have to build another one or buy it from "Europe". This could of course be rectified by having two wagon trains as your starting units, one as a settler one as a transport.

Was Rupert's Land ever considered as a civ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert%27s_Land

No, we were sticking to the setting of the American Old West. Canada won't play much of a part I'm afraid.

If you're set in that, I guess you're set in that, but there were significant skirmishes and disputes in the Northern Plains and what became the Oregon Territory between Britain and the U.S. It would also be interested to open up the possibility of a Yukon Gold Rush ... but if you want to narrow it to the U.S. and Mexico, well its your mod. I just thought it'd be interesting to play out to understand a bit of the geopolitical chaos in North America, the various factions before things settled and the U.S., Mexico and Canada acquired their present boundaries.

Oh, and I think it'd be best to rename "America" to "United States of America." I dunno if you could figure out a way eventually to work in the civil war and the "Confederate States of America" ... that was one of the biggest drives for western expansion, from a combination of the federal and confederate states grasping for more resources to win the war, and simultaneously a lot of people fled west to escape what remains the bloodiest war the United States has ever fought (in terms of number of Americans killed ... we lost more Americans in the Civil War than even WW2!).

Oregon is, in fact, a territory in Westward Ho. It was until v0.22 British-owned and known as Cascadia but I made it American-owned for that version. But that's as far north as we're going for now.

One issue is that we can't really represent the strife between America and someone else over a territory very well. So I decided to tie Mexico and America in as the two Westward Ho "European" powers instead.


EDIT: We might be able to make random events dealing with the civil war, just like someone suggested making random events affect European power relationships based on wars in Europe.

Anyone who has ideas for the mod, I'd like to request that you post them in the new mod forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=361), instead of here.

Suggestions, ideas, whatever... even if they've already been mentioned here, feel free to post them in the forum.

I think there should be a way to make railroads easier. Also the trains shouldn't go backwards when leaving towns. That should be pretty easy to fix.

That's all I have in the way of ideas.


But, I have some pictures below.

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These are cool, but you should have posted in the mod subforum. ;)

Oh and BTW, I think its cool having one of my units as your Avatar. :D

I'm going to see about getting this moved into the Wild West forum...

But yeah, those are cool pictures!

I think there should be a way to make railroads easier. Also the trains shouldn't go backwards when leaving towns. That should be pretty easy to fix.

What do you mean by "make railroads easier"?

I'm not sure what's wrong with/how the train animation works... I'll leave that explanation to the people who made the animation in the first place.

How about adding the new terrains in this mod:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10817

I find that there are far too few terrains in Civ4Col, and this mod adds the ones that existed in Col1.

I think America got Alaska from Russia ,so Russian Alaska might be a civ