This is the national Science Department for are nation. Give me acouple of secs to get things started.

Queue as proposed by stuck:

1. ceremonial burial
2. iron working
3. mysticism
4. polytheism
5. monarchy
6. alphabet
7. writing
8. the wheel
9. literature
10. pottery
11. map making
12. horseback riding
13. masonry
14. philosophy
15. code of laws
16. republic
17. math
18. construction
19. currency

This is a good queue, but their are some things I would have done differantly:

1: Monarchy that early? I personal use The Republic even during war.

2: I think we need to get literature sooner.... NOT for the Great Library, but for the regular libraries. I think that this game will include wars upon wars and I do think that we need the war techs, but we need to get them first and increasing are technological research sooner will give us a good lead against the AI's.(also for those periods when we have to drop research down to 0% or 10%)

3: We need horseback riding before map making. Those horse's make nice explorers and can be used for battle.

Once we get some differant side's going here I'll post some polls on the information to see which is publicly approved.

Queue Discussions:
Science Queue Discussions Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=472240#post472240)

Current Poll:
Science Poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31709)

Other Science Threads
Stucks Science Department Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31091)

Welcome back Strider. There is some serious work to be done on the science queue. ;)

Strider: in the old thread, you asked if you get to name a city. Yes, you do! One of the perks of holding office. City naming starts with honored citizens, if any, then goes down the CoC. IIRC, you'll get to name 4 city.

Yeah, whereas the governors who do all the work get nothing, NOTHING!! Oh well.
I think if we are going to have any meaningfull discussions about science we should invent language as soon as possible!!

AH! Gotta go save my secret doughnut stash from Octavian X!!

thats the old queue. were doing iron/alpha/writing/lit.

also, were doing it a few techs at a time. not a long, sprawling queue.

can i be chat rep for the FNSD?

May I be chat rep for FNSD?

i already am, sorry curu. ;) :p

Technically, neither of you are the chat rep:D An approval poll in the yes/no/abstain format is needed, with a 21 vote quroum.

I'm going to create a poll with the options:

Civanator
Curufinwe
Abstain

Whoever gets the most votes is the chat rep.

That won't work. You could use that poll to chose one of them, but then you'd still need a yes/no/abstain one.

Well.... It's to hard a choice to chose between curu and civ.....

Flip a coin. Personally, i throw my support behind civanator, since curu already has a job.

you all probably already know my position on this issue, but id like to refresh your memories:
we need monarchy as soon as possible because our workers only operate at fifty percent efficiency under despotism.
i believe our best option is the ceremonial burial/iron working/mysticism/polytheism proposal.

neutral leader is a good, responsible provincial governor

well which ever one loses would you like to be trade chat rep

Haply BCLG, haply.

Originally posted by neutral leader
you all probably already know my position on this issue, but id like to refresh your memories:
we need monarchy as soon as possible because our workers only operate at fifty percent efficiency under despotism.
i believe our best option is the ceremonial burial/iron working/mysticism/polytheism proposal.

neutral leader is a good, responsible provincial governor

It sounds nice.... but it doesn't feel good to me(the feeling I get when I forget a key tech in my queue ;))

if you have any suggestions for modifications, strider, id be happy to here them.

Originally posted by neutral leader
if you have any suggestions for modifications, strider, id be happy to here them.

I'm trying to think of what's missing their, but I can't find anything.... Oh well....

Neutral what do you recommand after those techs?

i think map making should be higher up the list as we need to get the great lighthouse early so we can settle on new lands

you mean for middle ages, strider?

Since we're obviously not isolated on a small island, map making is a pretty low priority.

I agree here. I would recommend pushing it off for a bit.

Please vote in the Council Vote for Domestic Leader (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31915).

Let's see... We've met two new opponets. I suggest that the science department start disucssion on the possibilty of tech trades.

Octavian, I strongly suggest we not trade techs with any civ we expect to take on militarily. Let's gain science through our enemies suing for peace. Any techs we trade at this point can help our enemies. If we do trade, it should be because it gives us a clear advantage.

I will not be checking the forums or anything today. So please save all questions till tomorow when I have time to check the forum.

Thanks, Strider

Please cast your vote in the Council Vote (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32094) for Culture Leader.

Gracious Science Leader.

The Foreign Ministry wishes to know your comments on trading iron working to the british, you may find said proposal on the Foreign Ministry Page. Please post your comments and ideas. Thank You

Ehecatl Atzin

Since our President has banned me from the #demogame chat room in the midst of our debate I will continue my comments here.

What I was about to say before I was so rudely interrupted is that you should be posting proposed polls in the appropriate discussion thread. This will allow cirtizens to give you some input into the wording, choices and format of the poll. This would help to cut down on invalid polls and complaints about the polls in general.

Your science poll #2 was a very good poll in that it laid out the major options to be voted on. You did forget abstain but all in all it was a good poll. Trouble was you totally ignored your own poll and instructed the DP to hold a spot vote during the chat to decide whether we should research alphabet or masonry!

It is a shame that we have stooped so low as to have posted turn chat instructions to have spot votes. This is inexcuseable.

Originally posted by donsig
Since our President has banned me from the #demogame chat room in the midst of our debate I will continue my comments here.

What I was about to say before I was so rudely interrupted is that you should be posting proposed polls in the appropriate discussion thread. This will allow cirtizens to give you some input into the wording, choices and format of the poll. This would help to cut down on invalid polls and complaints about the polls in general.

Your science poll #2 was a very good poll in that it laid out the major options to be voted on. You did forget abstain but all in all it was a good poll. Trouble was you totally ignored your own poll and instructed the DP to hold a spot vote during the chat to decide whether we should research alphabet or masonry!

It is a shame that we have stooped so low as to have posted turn chat instructions to have spot votes. This is inexcuseable.

I had quite a few reasons on doing this:

1. We still have not decided on what tech we should use next. Iron Working was going to be completed this T/C. Would you have rather me try to call off the whole T/C? I did not mean to put masonary, but the path to monarcy instead. I am very sorry about this.

2. My polls are perfectly fine if their informational.... You do not need to complain about a poll this is just informational.

Originally posted by Strider

1. We still have not decided on what tech we should use next. Iron Working was going to be completed this T/C. Would you have rather me try to call off the whole T/C? I did not mean to put masonary, but the path to monarcy instead. I am very sorry about this.


You're sorry?!?

Stop arguing over this please its ok in a chat but airing it in the forums isnt cool, it doesnt follow the good naturedness we shoul;d be following least we get banned from the forums as well

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
Stop arguing over this please its ok in a chat but airing it in the forums isnt cool, it doesnt follow the good naturedness we shoul;d be following least we get banned from the forums as well

He asked me a question and in away insulted me.... I'm going to answer him no matter what I do...

i tried :)

Fionn is right, stop this Donsig! Now!

now now children, lets all calm down and play a nice little Demo Game.

The Great Iguanaman

Originally posted by Chieftess
Fionn is right, stop this Donsig! Now!

I'm stopping, but I lack to see my name in this as I also were in the discussions.

Consider this is a warning to everyone involved in this disagreement. Please take a few minutes to calm down, and discuss this in a polite fashion, preferably not in the government forum.

Originally posted by eyrei
Consider this is a warning to everyone involved in this disagreement. Please take a few minutes to calm down, and discuss this in a polite fashion, preferably not in the government forum.

I'll agree to this.

On another note, if donsig we banned, it is the responsibilty of the Judge Advocate to investigate Chieftess' actions. Section E.8 of the CoS:

De-voicing actions and the exclustion of citizen spot polls will be investigated by the Judge Advocate.

Ok, I have takne our moderator's advice and calmed down.

I must apologize for not being able to find the proper words in my earlier post but Strider's admission that he made a mistake in the turn chat instruction thread kind of left me speechless. I aplaud him for admitting his mistake but I'm still at a loss for words though I will try my best to find some appropriate words.

I do think it is appropriate to post in the science department's thread concerning our science leader's turn chat instructions. If there is a more appropriate place for me to do this please let me know where it is. But please do not say I should be doing this via pm. There is nothing wrong with a citizen publicly calling for a government official to account for his actions in his governmental capacity.

It has been apparent for quite some time that there are two factions when it comes to the path our research should take. One faction is pushing for a research path towards the tech needed for the Great Library. The other faction is pushing for a direct path to monarchy. The FNSD has so far been unable to determine which faction really has the most citizens behind it though a good try was made with science poll #2.

I cannot calmly express my unhappiness over the thought of our science leader posting instructions to have a turn chat spot vote determine which direction we should take especially when there is an error in the turn chat instructions!

This department must put proper effort into determining the will of the people. This department should not be sanctioning turn chat spot votes to direct our research path.

I respectfully request that the Science Leader take leadership in this situation and post a discussion and official poll on the issue of research paths.

Those poll results would settle the matter once and for all, and this nation could move forward.

The use of informational polls is something I am in favor of, but I do hope that our leaders will be out in front driving conclusions that are binding through the use of official polling. That's why we vote for them.

I too am quite disappointed in the concept of relying on a small group of individuals in a turn chat to make these decisions, when adequate time has been available to reach consensus.

CT's decision to end the turn chat was a good one, and having perused the always hard to follow chat logs, I can see that it may be time to remind everyone again that this is a forum based game with a chat aspect to it, not the other way around.

Bill

Originally posted by donsig
Ok, I have takne our moderator's advice and calmed down.

I must apologize for not being able to find the proper words in my earlier post but Strider's admission that he made a mistake in the turn chat instruction thread kind of left me speechless. I aplaud him for admitting his mistake but I'm still at a loss for words though I will try my best to find some appropriate words.

I do think it is appropriate to post in the science department's thread concerning our science leader's turn chat instructions. If there is a more appropriate place for me to do this please let me know where it is. But please do not say I should be doing this via pm. There is nothing wrong with a citizen publicly calling for a government official to account for his actions in his governmental capacity.

It has been apparent for quite some time that there are two factions when it comes to the path our research should take. One faction is pushing for a research path towards the tech needed for the Great Library. The other faction is pushing for a direct path to monarchy. The FNSD has so far been unable to determine which faction really has the most citizens behind it though a good try was made with science poll #2.

I cannot calmly express my unhappiness over the thought of our science leader posting instructions to have a turn chat spot vote determine which direction we should take especially when there is an error in the turn chat instructions!

This department must put proper effort into determining the will of the people. This department should not be sanctioning turn chat spot votes to direct our research path.

The will of the people was not yet decided.... I had quite a few choices....

1. Pick to research alpabet which would get half of the citizens mad at me.

2. Pick to research mytisism which would get half of the citizens mad at me.

3. Choose to do as I did... Which will either result in everyone hating me or things going on smoothly. My mistake on confusing mosonary and mytisism made it the first one.

4. Try to call off the T/C as we have not enough time to poll all of the aspects, which of course would have utterly failed.

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX
I respectfully request that the Science Leader take leadership in this situation and post a discussion and official poll on the issue of research paths.

Those poll results would settle the matter once and for all, and this nation could move forward.

The use of informational polls is something I am in favor of, but I do hope that our leaders will be out in front driving conclusions that are binding through the use of official polling. That's why we vote for them.

I too am quite disappointed in the concept of relying on a small group of individuals in a turn chat to make these decisions, when adequate time has been available to reach consensus.

CT's decision to end the turn chat was a good one, and having perused the always hard to follow chat logs, I can see that it may be time to remind everyone again that this is a forum based game with a chat aspect to it, not the other way around.

Bill

Bill.... Donsig has been PIed countless times for not gathering enough information. I want to know what the people want. I have been a strong believe that it's the leaders job to include the citizens on their decisions. I am doing this.

Science is a major aspect to civ3. We have to design the queue to where it will benefit the nation. That is no easy task to accomplish in the time they give us.

Originally posted by Strider

Bill.... Donsig has been PIed countless times for not gathering enough information. I want to know what the people want. I have been a strong believe that it's the leaders job to include the citizens on their decisions. I am doing this.

Now look here, I have never been PIed for not gathering enough information. I expect a retraction or I will have my lawyer look into the possibility of initiating a libel or slander suit!

(Shaitan, should we sue Strider or the FNSD or both?)

Originally posted by donsig


Now look here, I have never been PIed for not gathering enough information. I expect a retraction or I will have my lawyer look into the possibility of initiating a libel or slander suit!

(Shaitan, should we sue Strider or the FNSD or both?)

I don't know your point of view on why you've got PIed, but that is mine. I am sorry that you think differantly, but that is what I think you did wrong...

No offense

I'm sorry if this insulted you in anyway.

donsig- i think this would be a case of libel
strider- we really should come up with even a short queue soon, for safetys sake.
and donsig- i dont want this used against me or my boss.

I hereby second Bill's request for a discussion and poll on the subject of future research. We won't make a decision by constantly arguing. We must discuss the subject, than poll the populace.

Please cast your vote in this council vote (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32463) for the Governor of Bohemia.

I might not be here tommorow and the day after that. My family is going to see a baseball game and I'm going also. Stuck is in charge those two days. I will return monday and resume control of the Science Department that day.

So zee penguin is incharge for zee next two days... eh? i promise not to go too crazy with the queue/power. Ill use the citizen output polls, but it looks like our next tech(s) are going to be shaped by not us, but by FA's trade with the english. Should we trade for Masonry and the Wheel, i will continue going for Alphabet and mabey place Writing and Literature next. If we trade for alphabet, however, i will do writing followed by Mysticism.


edit- you voted already.

Tech trade possibilities for 2150 BC. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32610)

Just to inform you that Donsig, Fanatika's premier publisher, has paid for the Fanatikan National Science Department to receive 1 poll consultation from YN&A to be made use of at the Dept.'s discretion. Please PM me (http://forums.civfanatics.com/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=16187), or post your requirements in the YN&A thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31775), should you choose to make use of this gift.

SPAM deleted

We can sell either iron working or the alphabet to the Japanese for 81 gold. I think this is a good deal for us. Does the FNSD endorse this deal, and if so, which tech should we sell?

I think that's a great idea. The other civs have these techs so it's not really critical which one we sell (they're going to get it anyway very shortly). I recommend alphabet.

I agree, sell alphabet

alphabet.

alphabet. also- donsig: when i get my winbox (parts arived today!) i promise to do research on every possible tech trade.

SAAM, you didn't put this instruction into the chat turn instruction thread. Fortunately only a single turn was taken so it is still possible. Please don't miss it again - unless we meet a new civ we'll have a full chat and the opportunity will be gone.

i did. it was the link w/ the poll.

We can get a total of 142 now from the Russians and Japanese combined.

The instruction to sell Alphabet was missing from the turn chat instructions AGAIN!

What is it going to take to force you 2 to do your jobs?

Originally posted by Strider


We have not abandoned are job!!! Stuck and I did not post instructions, because we were going to be at the T/C. Also I have seen NOTHING saying to sell alphabet that I can remember..... I'll will look around for anything that might say that, but I have seen nothing or else I would have done something about it.
It's in this very Science thread! It's also considered a given in every strategy discussion. It is referenced everywhere!

Clarification: I didn't mean to imply that you had abandoned your job. I was refering to the job duty of posting instructions. Regardless of whether you plan to be at the chat, instructions should be posted.

If you were both at the turn chat then why was this missed again?

Originally posted by Shaitan
The instruction to sell Alphabet was missing from the turn chat instructions AGAIN!

What is it going to take to force you 2 to do your jobs?


Stop yelling at us for we have time to do are job?

Originally posted by donsig
We can sell either iron working or the alphabet to the Japanese for 81 gold. I think this is a good deal for us. Does the FNSD endorse this deal, and if so, which tech should we sell?

Shaitan I have found the information that you accused me of ignoring, through I must repeat the I DID NOT SEE IT! That was the weekend I was gone..... Either I didn't notice it or through stuck had already taken care of the matter.

Sorry for the big letters on the early post. I was extremely pissed when I loaded the new save this morning and found those still there. Really, really pissed.

The funds from this sale are critical for the sword rush. I strongly believe that the sword rush will be the difference between us struggling and us taking control. That is why this deal is so very important to me.

Please, please, please post the instructions now so they can't get overlooked again. This is the second grace we've gotten because the chats were kept to 1 or 2 turns. We are not going to get another one if we miss this.

Originally posted by Shaitan
Sorry for the big letters on the early post. I was extremely pissed when I loaded the new save this morning and found those still there. Really, really pissed.

The funds from this sale are critical for the sword rush. I strongly believe that the sword rush will be the difference between us struggling and us taking control. That is why this deal is so very important to me.

Please, please, please post the instructions now so they can't get overlooked again. This is the second grace we've gotten because the chats were kept to 1 or 2 turns. We are not going to get another one if we miss this.

Consider it done (if I can find the turn chat instruction thread. Through I don't think their is one)

Edit: No turn chat instructions thread... Can't do it :(

I posted in the Pres thread asking Chieftess to start the instruction thread.

I would like to add that I feel that even if a leader intends to attend chat, they should post their turn instructions, as that is the official record for the forum users to see.

Thanks

Originally posted by Bill_in_PDX
I would like to add that I feel that even if a leader intends to attend chat, they should post their turn instructions, as that is the official record for the forum users to see.

Thanks

I completely agree. It was decided long ago that the turn chats were secondary to forum discussions. Leaders need to post their intended actions beforehand so the citizens can see them, and, yes, criticize them.

just to let you know, the science minstry needs to put up a term 2 thread or risk falling behind. in the immortal words of ritsuko akagi, "thats the advice of a friend"

Term 2 Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33419)