This thread is for discussing Hero Units, now that Leaders/King Units have been finalized.

Hero Units:


Quendi:

Noldor:

House of Fingolfin:

Heroes: Glorfindel

House of Fëanor:

Heroes: "Sons of Fëanor" * Special


Teleri:

Heroes: Eärwen (Daughter of Olwe, Mother of Galadriel)

Sindar:

Heroes: Legolas

Vanyar:

Heroes: Indis


Good Men:

Númenor:

Heroes: Valandil

Arnor:

Heroes: Halbarad

Gondor

Heroes: Boromir

Edain:

Heroes: Beren


Neutral Men:

Rohirrim:

Heroes: Éomer

Northmen [Dale and Beornings]:

Heroes: Brand

Dunlending:

Heroes: Wulf

Isengard:

Heroes: Grima Wormtongue


Evil Men:

Haradrim:

Heroes: Castamir

Easterling:

Heroes: Brodda

Angmar:

Heroes: Eärnur


Shadow:

Mordor:

Heroes: The Mouth Of Sauron

Angband:

Heroes: Glaurung


Khazâd:

Longbeard:

Heroes: Gimli

Broadbeams & Firebeards:

Heroes: Gamil Zirak



Removed Captains as Units because that is actually a Promotion for Regular/Unique Units.

I assumed we would go with Heroes, Kings and Captains, but captains would be unnamed (that is, you can promote one of your high level regular units to captain (minlevel 6 or so). Naming captains can be done, but wouldn't they be simply another type of hero then?

Will comment on the names later today.

I like the Idea of upgrading Heroes to Captains, but am fine with having both separate as well.

Now I'm confused.
What I meant was: You build an axeman, this axeman sees a lot of battle and gets enough experience to reach level 6. When he does, he can upgrade so Captain (provided you researched the tech which enables them, and haven't yet reached your national unit limit (4 I would say)). Captains can not be build, only upgraded to. Captains have a few promotions that are only available to them, besides the other benefits the captains have.

Heroes cannot be upgraded to and they won't upgrade to anything. They have the hero promotion and get automatic xp (until a certain number, 100xp in FFH). The hero promotion also enables some other promotions not available otherwise (or harder to get otherwise, eg. normally you need Combat 5 for Commando, but the Hero promo is sufficient as well (only an example, not a proposal))

King units get the King promotion (similar to the hero promotion, but enabling a different set of promos and this way we can make one get xp faster then the other).

There can/should be overlap between the promotions enabled by being Captain/Hero/King, but some should preferably be unique to one of them.

Ah, got it now, sorry. That is a nice Idea. Then the names would change and we would have Heroes only as Captains are just an updrage for Regular/Unique Units. Sounds good to me.

From Childrern of Hurin;

Glaurung -> Angband
Hunthor -> Haleth
Azaghal -> Belegost Dwarves?
Brandir -> Haleth
Melian -> Sindar
Sador -> Hador
Brodda -> Easterlings

Nice. I will update appropriately.

Ones I did not add:

Melian - She is a Valar.
Azaghal - Already a Leader/King Unit.
Glaurung - Already on the List.

No, Melian is a Maia, like Gandalf. I think she must be add. A Leader or Hero. :)

Very well then. I'll put in Melian.

I really wonder, how we'll add Istari?

Added Fingon & Turgon to Fingolfin and Indis to Vanyar.

I beieve we are thinking along the lines of a Project you build lets say is called "Guidance of the Istari". You then get to choose 1 of the Istari to use from Gandalf, Radagast, Palladno & Alatar. Not Saruman because he is already a Leader. A special Istari unit is given to you. The project can be built 4 times.

On the heroes: are we going to have 1 hero per civ? Maybe we should keep it at that. What we could do is make leader <--> hero couples, meaning if you choose a leader you might get a diferent hero. Example: For Arnor if you start with Elendil you get hero called Anarion and if you choose Aragorn you get Halbared. Just a thought. Otherwise we should limit the list of leaders per civ or set a maximum or maybe balance them (some have 2 or 3 but they are less good or only come later).

I would go with the last option (some can have more, but are either less effective or later in the game).

I like those ideas. Some are going to only be able to have 1, unless we can come up with some more names. Other than that though, Perhaps a limit of 3 Heroes, no matter what? So you would have 1 Main Hero and 2 Lesser Heroes.

I deffinately like linking the Heroes to the Leaders.

The problem with the last one is that we need at least one hero per leader and they all need to be balanced and statted seperatly and correctly. Might be time consuming. I like the idea though, maybe for a second release?

Indeed. In the mean time, we could limit it to 1 Hero per Civ and then update with the 2nd release.

Should we go with that?

Thats a good idea, or we go with multiple but than we have to make sure it is balanced. I would go with one for the first release (maybe two if we know they are balanced togheter and fit nice).

I would also aim for one hero per civ for the first release to make things easy for ourselves. There should be room for exceptions though and we can add more for a second release, taking time to balance them nicely.

No longer Relevant.

I have updated the List as Follows:

Quendi: Noldor: House of Fëanor:

Hero: Celebrimbor (So that every Civ has 1 Hero. Until such time as we sork out the "Sons of Fëanor issue).

Haradrim:

Hero: Castamir. He led the Corsairs against Gondor.

Khazad: Broadbeams & Firebeards:

Hero: Gamil Zirak. He was the Master of Telchar in the Ways of the Forge.

All Civs now have 1 Hero.

Looks good.
One comment. I wouldn't use Lurtz as a Hero for Isengard, as he was only in the movie (and his name wasn't even mentioned in it). I would prefer Grima Wormtongue (with some sneak promotions) instead.

Grima Wormtongue or Uglúk?

Which do you think would be better? I like both.

I would prefer Grima to have a different type of hero, but Uglúk works as well. I almost forgot about that poor fellow :)

Alright, barring any further comments to the contrary I will put in Grima Wormtongue as teh Isengard Hero.

EDIT: Now done.

Unless we change up an try to add more Heroes later and unless there are any objections towards Celebrimbor being a Hero (baring the "Sons of Feanor" situation workering out), can we call this list Finalized?

Also, should we use Glaurung (Dragon) or Gothmog (Balrog) as the Hero for Angband?

Do we really have to have one hero per civ? I can think of four Edain that deserve just as much a place as Beren: Húrin, Huor, Túrin, and Tuor.
Or will there be other heroes as well that aren't attached to specific civs?

Melian needs to be if anything a Sindar hero(ine). She had absolutely nothing to do with the seafaring Teleri, and everything to do with the forest-dwelling Sindar.

Good Catch T_F, I missplaced Melian, sorry about that. I'll fix that now.

I think we are going with 1 Hero now, to make it easier, but we deffiantely are going to include more in the 2nd release.

EDIT: I replaced the Teleri Hero with Eärendil (The Mariner). I hope that is alright.

Is "king units" will be civ leaders?

Yes. The King Units will also be the Civ Leaders, correct. This way you are actually playing the Leader you choose.

Hmmm... Eärendil was a Man, so IDK how appropriate that is. It's OK if we can't find anyone else, but not ideal.

Círdan isn't a leader, right? He would work OK, though IDK how much actual fighting he did.

Cirdan is a leader. You are right about Earendil. I will remove him. We now need a new teleri Hero. Thus my problem of names come back into play since a number of these civs are actually the same group of people.

Added for the Teleri Hero:

Eärwen (Daughter of Olwe, Mother of Galadriel)

I like the list as it is now. Earendil is very important but maybe we can use him in an event or feature or something later on. We actually discussed using more heroes or make the heroes dependant on the leader you play. But to make sure we have a short time to our first release I really think limiting it to one per civ, maybe two for an occasional civ to make it more unique if we can balance it. We can always add more later and rebalance.

Shall we call this finalized for the 1st release then? With the knowledge that it will be expanded upon further after the initial release?

For me it is good to call it finalized.

Finalized for the 1st release for me.

Finalized for first, yes. We definitely need to add more to it later.

All right. The Hero List is finalized for 1st release.

One small thing: if we use the sons of feanor for the feanor civ we should remove the hero for this civ (Celebrimbor)! I think we said it was doable to have the sons of feanor with the planar gate system so I would suggest: remove the hero for Feanor and put "Sons of Feanor" there.

Indeed
tenchar

I will do that then.