This thread is for minor requests/questions - as arkham4269 suggested.

It is intended as a place to post all minor requests - to keep bug thread for bugs etc..., plus to reduce the number of threads.
And to let me say NO to many requests with a single post :mischief:

So, if you think that your question/request falls into that category, feel free to post it here.
If you think you need a separate thread for an important matter, it is ok to do so.

reserved just in case

Oh yeah, I always wondered why people couldn't build supplies, is there any justification for that?

a while ago, i thought it would be more balanced if the city of a thousand slums would become a national wonder.

Oh yeah, I always wondered why people couldn't build supplies, is there any justification for that?
I just did not think about it. I will try to make them buildable, but more expensive than any of the buildings (shipping cost). It will allow the big cities to support development of the small ones.
Just pack some construction material, workers, books and Conan the Librarian, and you got an instant library ;)

a while ago, i thought it would be more balanced if the city of a thousand slums would become a national wonder.
That would cut most of Kuriotate uniquiness, plus it is a world wonder - having any world wonder is not fair (great library? hall of kings?), but you have to build it first.

Two requests -

Bring back 'Regenerate Map'.... please!

Also, is it possible to add a 'no griffons' option in the custom game options? I really, really, really hate how griffons are just megaspawning angels of death in early games, and with their move you can't they effectively come from nowhere.

Two requests -

Bring back 'Regenerate Map'.... please!


It was removed from FfH because the Elohim are able to see all Unique Features from the start of the game, and if the map is regenerated they'd still be able to see the previous locations. I'm actually not sure if they'd be able to see the new Feature locations...

Also, is it possible to add a 'no griffons' option in the custom game options? I really, really, really hate how griffons are just megaspawning angels of death in early games, and with their move you can't they effectively come from nowhere.

I don't want them removed... but because they are so strong they appear all over (because they aren't killed they make nests). I wish there could be TONS of wolves, a few bears, trolls, gorrillas, and a fraction of griffons. It doesn't seem right how there are usually way more griffons than anything else in the game, and it seems that this should be reversed. Everything has equal chance but it should be many weak units, few medium, and rarely the really tough. Then it should start the cycle over again with weak barbarians that get progressively stronger. In my .22c game, I got lucky to get a tech for hunters... it didn't help me because griffons ate them alive just like my scouts, and I dont have much of the map explored at +200 turns.

As another quick request. Why is there so many bards? I keep thinking this will be fixed soon... by turn 200 (on marathon) there had to be ~30 to 40 bards - no joke! If this is intended... then ok, but it would be nice for a little variety at least :P

they have equal chance I think, however griffins don't get killed while everything else does

It seems to me that a simple solution might be to decrease the spawn chances for Griffins and increase them for Wolves.

Colour coded promotions will make it easier to spot if you have a unit who has a strength against a particular unit type / medical units. I've enclosed the necessary .dds files which is snagged from TAM/RoM (I think)

Garr - and I have no idea where those griffons are created on start so I can tone it down.

...request. Why is there so many bards? I keep thinking this will be fixed soon... by turn 200 (on marathon) there had to be ~30 to 40 bards - no joke! If this is intended... then ok, but it would be nice for a little variety at least :P

My guess has been that they are auto-exploring the lairs and magically getting bards. Maybe the animals are exploring the lairs and killing the bards? Anyone watch?

My guess has been that they are auto-exploring the lairs and magically getting bards. Maybe the animals are exploring the lairs and killing the bards? Anyone watch?

Actually went into the world builder after two bards popped up in the first 15 or so turns. Two cities near me had their borders expand for the second time (aka culture increase of some sort) but were not in revolt (as I recall the event in question that gives you a bard does.)... Are the AIs getting those bards constantly and freely?

EDIT - Ok now I'm spying on a culture who did take that bard. And they also got the 15 turns of infamy. Any way to educate them not to since well, it's stupid?

Actually went into the world builder after two bards popped up in the first 15 or so turns. Two cities near me had their borders expand for the second time (aka culture increase of some sort) but were not in revolt (as I recall the event in question that gives you a bard does.)... Are the AIs getting those bards constantly and freely?

EDIT - Ok now I'm spying on a culture who did take that bard. And they also got the 15 turns of infamy. Any way to educate them not to since well, it's stupid?

I had a size 1 city get that event. 15 turns of unrest in a minor city for a golden age? I'll take it.

I once got that in my major prosuction center ...:(

I had a size 1 city get that event. 15 turns of unrest in a minor city for a golden age? I'll take it.

Of course. I refer to when these events are all happening in the first 50 turns when there are no other cities built... and that seems to be very common for the AI.

Ahwaric, have you ever considered including DynamicCiv names? It could be pretty flavorful. It's just cosmetic but I love that thing from FF :)

Anyone mention why only one of the lizard civs got transferred?

Anyone mention why only one of the lizard civs got transferred?

Because they are too much the same... Ahwaric has mentioned that civs that are too similar wont be put in. I think the other civs qualities could be combined by adding in another leader being evil - and maybe combine any unique features (I'm drawing a blank on the differences).

Rather large differences actually... Mazatl can spread swamps with their workers, Cualli can't. Mazatl are an economic powerhouse, Cualli are conquerers.

Cualli are based on evil shadow-priests though, so adding an evil leader with access to those units rather than the Mazatl priests could effectively combine them.

Stealing Chichen Itza from the main and renaming it would make a good Mazatl Wonder.

I'm on a lot of different Civ threads but I seem to recall we on the Orbis main thread discussed how a lot of us like the old [c3c] mechanic of setting up a trade routes manually between cities. Usually this was between cities that lack resources the other had. For example, you often have a city on a plain with rivers that generated a lot of food, often times so much so that it was hard to keep the city happy because you couldn't build :culture: buildings fast enough since the city didn't have much in the way of :hammers: not to mention it also generates a lot of :yuck:. What's the point of having a city if all you are building are things to keep people happy and healthy and nothing else.

So I think it would be nice to be able to build a trader unit (could take a lot of time, maybe not) similar to those used now with some of the corporations. So you could create a Trader-Farmer and when created would then transfer 2-3 :food: to which ever city needed food, like a city in the mountains that is mostly there for the mines. Conversely that city could create a Trader-Miner that could then transfer 2-3 :hammers: to that city on the plains that needs the production.

I know you'd probably have to also have a way to delete this trade route but I have no idea how that would work.

Another request is a minor one and I'm not sure how easy it is to import other peoples graphic work but I'd like to see more variation in naval units and perhaps cities.

Color me stupid but one thing I don't see to much of in [civ4] as opposed to [civ3] is how the cities look different. Usually in FfH it is your religion that makes the cities different and while that's okay, I sort of miss the diversity. To me it seems that cities under E or O or even RoK don't really look that much different from each other.

I like the old [civ3] mod Rise & Rule (precursor to the current Rise of Mankind mod) which broke up the world into Asian, African, European, Middle Eastern and 'Native' American so that French and English cities would look similar, but the art work for Japanese or Zulu cities would be vastly different.

About the only really obvious way to see this is with the Malakim and Kuriotates. I just wish there was a way, perhaps that maybe the cottage/hamlet/town artwork might be different and maybe even the forts.

Again, that is probably to much work, but I really wish there was a bit more flavor, especially in the naval units. I mean for the most part every races galley looks exactly the same. A lot of mods have done some great work to make some diversity. I mean, if anything, you'd think the "Arabic" Malakim could use the Xebec graphic instead of the Frigate.

Another request. I made this before and I don't know if it can be done, but in older versions of [c4w] you had a much easier time creating vassals, especially with cities you had conquered from other players. In FfH/FF/Orbis, it seems you can only do this when these cities are separated by a body of water.

Well playing on certain maps, this is impossible. I'd like to see where you could create a vassal if you have cities a certain distance from your capital. For example, in my current game, I wiped out the Calabim (3 cities) and then took two barbarian cities. Now it would be nice (especially as the Scions where keeping extra cities is a pain) to have the option of break off those barbarian cities as a vassal (they are far away) or perhaps creating the Calabim as a vassal and then giving them those barbarian cities.

I don't know the mechanic, but it seems now, the first vassal you create is a copy of your Civ and then the next is a random civ. If you conquer a civ and then later make those cities a vassal, I'd think the would automatically be a minor leader of that original race.

One thing that perchaps isn't extreamly hard to be done... I like playing on Erebus type of random map, but I'd like it more, if it was possible to make Erebus not a flat map with edges, but a globe type. Is it possible at all?

One thing that perchaps isn't extreamly hard to be done... I like playing on Erebus type of random map, but I'd like it more, if it was possible to make Erebus not a flat map with edges, but a globe type. Is it possible at all?

The new FfH has a way to do it, plus a feature I like is you can fiddle around with the number of mountain ranges so the map isn't one big maze.

Rather large differences actually... Mazatl can spread swamps with their workers, Cualli can't. Mazatl are an economic powerhouse, Cualli are conquerers.
Cualli are based on evil shadow-priests though, so adding an evil leader with access to those units rather than the Mazatl priests could effectively combine them.
I am still not convinced if Cualli are unique enough in mechanics to justify two lizard civs. Adding evil leader and tieing all unique stuff to him has some downsides, too, but may be a better solution.
I'm on a lot of different Civ threads but I seem to recall we on the Orbis main thread discussed how a lot of us like the old [c3c] mechanic of setting up a trade routes manually between cities.
I like it too, but for now I am not sure how to make it.
Another request is a minor one and I'm not sure how easy it is to import other peoples graphic work but I'd like to see more variation in naval units and perhaps cities.
I think we already have more diversity in city graphics than normal civ IV or III. Towns & such should look just like cities soon.
There are not much nice ship models I am not already using, plus the differences between civs should be really big to justify different ship looks.

Another request. I made this before and I don't know if it can be done, but in older versions of [c4w] you had a much easier time creating vassals,
Will try to fix it...

the Mazatl-Cualli difference is about equal to
the Ljosalfar-Svartalfar

I am still not convinced if Cualli are unique enough in mechanics to justify two lizard civs. Adding evil leader and tieing all unique stuff to him has some downsides, too, but may be a better solution.

I like the sound of that. You could also make certain buildings / units only available to Good / Evil leaders, allowing you to take some of the aspects of the Cualli across from FfH.

In regard to the 'Evil' Lizards, I believe that it's too bad that the AI can't figure out good versus evil because the whole name of this Mod (well not Orbis) is Fall from Heaven. So even the Good guys fail but also some evil folks come back into the light.

Anyway, I agree that while it may have some downsides, I'd rather see more alignment specific units as as well as UU versions of the same.

I mean to me, the evil lizards instead of sticking with Kilmorph probably were seduced from the voices from the deep (like Brandeline's Well) and such. Or, prior to the Age of Ice, they may have been very in tune with the Nature and after Sucellus was killed felt that perhaps they had put their faith in the wrong god.

That being said, I'm sure you could say the same thing about every race.

Adventurer Mapscript:
Could someone please make a custom mapscript (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317393) in which each player spawns with an Adventurer (MP compatible!)?

I'm trying to make one but I fail...

Griffons:
I don't want them removed... but because they are so strong they appear all over (because they aren't killed they make nests). I wish there could be TONS of wolves, a few bears, trolls, gorrillas, and a fraction of griffons. It doesn't seem right how there are usually way more griffons than anything else in the game, and it seems that this should be reversed.
I must second this request as well...

I dare to re-ask you Ahwaric, even if for a harsh "no" :p:
How about adding the dynamicCiv names from FF?
OOoo, this one is a good request two. Seconded...

I dare to re-ask you Ahwaric, even if for a harsh "no" :p:
How about adding the dynamicCiv names from FF?

why do the religious civics for the evil religions give :mad:? it seems weird, especially for the Great Dreaming

Is it Great Dreaming? Unless I've missed a patch, it's called Slumbering Coven.
Althought, on topic, that is a good Question.

The best I have seen recently is Slumbering Oven :lol:

Regarding the :mad: from civics, it is not good to public happines if cultists enforce their religious law, is it?

@ Opera
I once wanted to add dynamic civ names. It is good for flavour, but makes it harded to spot who are you really dealing with (leader and his traits). So it was put into the box "decide later and check the code ;) " Need to rethink it...

@Cuali & Mazatl
It seems that there is common agreement that Cualli are needed in some form.
I will check what can be done with one civ and just different leaders.
The difference would be:
Mazatl: Sacella & wyvern order (including the wyvern)
Cualli: slavery, shadow priests
Maybe different world spell?
The whole jungle/deep jungle mechanics fits both civs I think.

One thing is worth noting - one civ will disable deathmatch good vs evil lizzies unless both leaders will be added in custom game. But it will certainly be easier to make them fall or become good.

@Cuali & Mazatl
It seems that there is common agreement that Cualli are needed in some form.
I will check what can be done with one civ and just different leaders.
The difference would be:
Mazatl: Sacella & wyvern order (including the wyvern)
Cualli: slavery, shadow priests
Maybe different world spell?
The whole jungle/deep jungle mechanics fits both civs I think.

Cualli (as distinct to Mazatl) get:

Leader - Kolshenvak: Aggresive, Agnostic, Cold Blooded (Evil)
Unit - Shadow Priest of Agrannon.
Buildings: Sacrifical Altar, Slave Pits, Capital has Shadow Mana
Civic: Blood And Sacrifice
New trait: Cold-Blooded: Max 1 turn of Anarchy, No Upkeep for Labour civics, +50% production speed for Assassin.

Your best bet might be to put a requirement for Evil alignment for those buildings and Good alignment for Mazatl-only buildings and then combine the races into one.

The Shadow Priest requires Malevolent Designs, Poisons and Gems. It might be quite nifty to change Gems to Sugar - a nod to the Thuggee cult. (OK, so the Thuggee were active in India and the Lizardmen are pseudo-Aztec, but I digress...) A building requirement of Sacrifical Altar for Shadow Priest would prevent them from good aligned lizard-men getting ahold of them.

give them a world spell at the beginning allowing them to choose alignment like Kahdi?

I think it would be better to do it via Leaders, personally.

No idea if you'd use it or not, but I edited the Goum improvement for my mod, thought I'd post here with the new graphic as well. :lol: I think it came out pretty well, but of course I'm biased. :p
Needed it as my mod has a 4 level improvement for the Malakim, while the Yurt -> Goum -> Aduar only has 3.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12173

Nice job, Valkrionn :goodjob:

In modding mood. When this happens, I usually open up the Modders guides for FfH and FF... And, well, it has to be done for Orbis. I would really like to know what tag you've added or imported from FF. It would greatly help :)

With Ahwaric being the only person working on Orbis, I don't know if he'd have the time to put one together... I'm amazed he's able to do as much as he does. :eek:

I get behind just working on *my* mod, and I only mess with one civ!

I'm amazed he's able to do as much as he does. :eek:

As he said, his girl friend does the thinking (imagining troll lairs etc.), he just needs to code it. ;)

coding it is hard, but I think Ahwaric copy and paste other codes in existence and morph it around a bit.

Looking in the Orbis editor told me which are the new tags (at least in the files modified by the editor). I may compile a list sometime later today.

(a girlfriend is always useful :))

No idea if you'd use it or not, but I edited the Goum improvement for my mod, thought I'd post here with the new graphic as well. :lol: I think it came out pretty well, but of course I'm biased. :p
Needed it as my mod has a 4 level improvement for the Malakim, while the Yurt -> Goum -> Aduar only has 3.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12173

Looks great! I guess I need to do some text for it since I already did it for the yurt!

Fellowship of the Leaves' fawns and Satyrs can't use bronze weapons when most if not all other recon units can, it seems kind of weird, is this intentional or not?

Fellowship of the Leaves' fawns and Satyrs can't use bronze weapons when most if not all other recon units can, it seems kind of weird, is this intentional or not?
???

I don't think any recon unit can use weapons promotions.

Edit: I just noticed this was in Orbis, so maybe I'm wrong. I haven't played Orbis since the first release.

Edit: I just noticed this was in Orbis, so maybe I'm wrong. I haven't played Orbis since the first release. SHAME ON YOU ! :P

since satyrs and fawn's use their arms and legs to fight it seems logical they can't use any weapon type's

In the animation fawns use dagger looking weapons, and satyrs use javelins, (unless the art has been changed dramatically)

Looks great! I guess I need to do some text for it since I already did it for the yurt!

Thanks, but unless Ahwaric uses it there's no real point... Text for his improvements wouldn't match mine. :lol:

Does Orbis modmod include FlavourMod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=282901) and visible improved forests for elves (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=308955)?

If not, are they like to be any clashes caused by installing them with Orbis?

Also, does Orbis resolve the problem of early religions strangling later religions (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317886)?

Yes it does include Flavourstart. ;) No idea on the other two, but the elf improvements shouldn't be an issue.

@lumpthing: I just did a minor work on the leaders threshold when it comes to open borders agreement. They would be more reserved now: Os-Gabella shouldn't open her borders to Arendel Phaedra (the latter being good and the former now requiring pleased or above). It should slow down disciples spamming. However, if, in said case, Arendel opens with Jonas who opens with Os-Gabella, if the elf spread her mean disciples to Jonas, he would certainly do the same to Os-Gabella.

I have included a modified version of the Orbis editor in which I red-colored the parts that I modified (only in Leaders tab and OpenBorders line... I should have colored all others red cells back to blue but I forgot :p). For installing, simply extracts in your Orbis folder. It should ask to overwrite, choose yes.

I think the ReligiousWeights need reworking too.
I also think that RoK shouldn't alter alignment. Am I missing some lore that make this utter nonsense?

I also also think, on another issue, that it may be nice to mod a bit those minor leaders. When looking (quickly) through them, I saw that they are many things in common with major leaders, like clones.

Nah, religions are messed up more in Orbis, although I managed to spread Empyrean to Kuriotates on every single one of their metropolises but they still refuse to submit to the One True God, Lugus

That's not nice. At all :mad:

I know. Every one of Volva's cities had OO, but no Conversion is in sight.:( She'll propably run off with one of the big-name religeons, like Kane's Empyrean, and leave me droping from friendly to Cautious.:(

What about a new model for Goliath? that thing looks waay too advanced imo, really kills immersion..

dude, it is from an end game civic, and it is from the Mechanos, though it should look a little rougher

Well yeah but when I compare it to its button/image/civopedia art/whatever I imagine someone kind of clockwork steampunk thing, not RoboCop ;)

With Ahwaric being the only person working on Orbis, I don't know if he'd have the time to put one together... I'm amazed he's able to do as much as he does. :eek:
Not recently, but as I have sent last part of my work to publisher for review today, this is going to change I hope ;)
I do not think we need another stage for nomadic improvements, but I 2will probably relace current Goum graphics with this one
As he said, his girl friend does the thinking (imagining troll lairs etc.), he just needs to code it. ;)
I need to tell her that she does :lol:. But recently, you do most of the thinking and I just try to add at least part of it. Not much time for my own ideas ;)
coding it is hard, but I think Ahwaric copy and paste other codes in existence and morph it around a bit.
Copy & paste is my friend. Scavenging is the way of life...
Everything I know on coding I have learned modding civ. So I am just able to do the minor tweaks, but do not expect any new xml tags written by me any time soon... Good thing that merging becomes easier recently...
In modding mood. When this happens, I usually open up the Modders guides for FfH and FF... And, well, it has to be done for Orbis. I would really like to know what tag you've added or imported from FF. It would greatly help :)
I should really do it. Will try to work on it soon.
Fellowship of the Leaves' fawns and Satyrs can't use bronze weapons when most if not all other recon units can, it seems kind of weird, is this intentional or not?
Intentional. I do not think fawns like metal weapons, I think they prefer organic versions. Maybe they should get extra strength (poison?), or I should make other recxon units weaker...
Does Orbis modmod include FlavourMod and visible improved forests for elves?

If not, are they like to be any clashes caused by installing them with Orbis?

Also, does Orbis resolve the problem of early religions strangling later religions?
Flavourmod and improved forests are in. Also, you can't really use any other modmod with Orbis. Too many files are changed.
All leaders have now strong prefereces for religions based on the FfH lore I know.
Nah, religions are messed up more in Orbis, although I managed to spread Empyrean to Kuriotates on every single one of their metropolises but they still refuse to submit to the One True God, Lugus
:mad: Cardith and Lamalha prefer order, but are weigthed heavily towards empyrean, too. hmm, I wonder what religion did they follow, and how many other civs did so. Religious relations bonus is a strong temptation, too strong for Falvour in FfH.
Well yeah but when I compare it to its button/image/civopedia art/whatever I imagine someone kind of clockwork steampunk thing, not RoboCop ;)
It is actually a mech model from next war mod for BtS. Give me a better one and I will love to use it.
I even once wanted to steal clockwork golem, but do not like to strip other civs from their goodies.

So that's why, they found the order. Now I watch as my Empyrean converted Elohim and Amure slowly gets eaten by the, evil order fanatics:(. Oh well, at least I have Scions capital Empyrean converted.

Oh yeah, I had 48% of the world converted, Elohim, Scions, Amurites all followed it (6 civ map although 1 civ got wiped out).

Then the Order suddenly appeared and converted 19% of the world population, and also caused my religion to drop to 40 %

Since many people used flavored start, the Malakim end up in deserts. Since most people don't have a computer as limited as mine, they use big maps that then place the Malakim in a more 'land-locked' position.

So I think they should have UB of a kârum which would be a river port that gives a better trade bonus as it was historically an area where no taxes where paid to make up for their lack of cities with coastal harbors.

Seeing graph's and discography of enemies while using "No Espionage" option ... (:

(( not sure if this can be done - i solved it by removing all active esp. actions ... xD ))

Would it be possible to create button in city-interface "Avoid specialists" ? I have to always check cities playing as Grigori ... >.>

This isn't really a 'minor' request but I figure it could be easily answered with a "OMIGOD no!"

Anyway, my thoughts are that why are all barbarians orcs? Now I know that the original Fall Into Revolution (FiRe) mod ended but it's owner was going to take one of the main parts of the mod and integrate it into FF. This was having barbarian cities left alone would morph into Civs.

That was then and a few things have been added since then. So assuming this code gets done and your willing to add it, I had these thoughts.

First off, I admit I do not know how barb cities 'spawn' - so the next part may be totally wrong. Anyway if cities spawn in the way animal lairs do (a bear left alone may spawn a bear lair) I think the same thing could be done with barbarians.

I mean why is it only orcs that are barbarians? I would think that Erebus would be covered with little groups of 'barbarians' who survived in little enclaves through the Age of Winter. So instead always just orc barbarians, you would have human, elf, and dwarven barbarians as well. From here, these barbarians will eventually spawn cities of their own. If that FiRe code is used, they would then spawn their own civs. These days, they would spawn as minor civs.

I know some might say this nerfs the Clan since they'd have less units affected by their world spell, but it makes more 'historical' sense as well as making it more interesting if the FiRe code is used so that you'd have a larger mix of civs.

That's an idea I do very much like... it seems natural that "babarian" culture's develop during a game, and become small civ's of their own

In Orbis, you've said you want a G/N/E for each civ.

Well first off the Scions do not have a minor leader and both the Risen Emperor and Lady Korinna are both neutral.

Lady Korinna is listed as neutral but her favorite Wonder is the Temple of Temperance which to me would imply she'd be more good. However, I think that perhaps like Decius that Lady Korinna should have the choice of alignments.

Korinna the Protector: Good
Korinna the Black Lady: Neutral
Korinna the Red Lady: Evil

For a minor leader, I would submit Gaius Trajan, a engineer with a Good alignment. Or maybe he could be the Good 'main' leader. It just occurred to me a good minor leader would in keeping with the Roman theme would be a military commander with ambitions.

I have attached a possible picture by Kieran Yanner (http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/list.pl?gallery=6977&genre=2)

In light of needing G/N/L leaders and not just minor ones. Here are some pictures I think could be good ones for leader.

The 'Merlin' pic looks like a good one for the Illians or Doviello Good.

The Harbringer to have a different picture for Baron Halfmorn

I like the "Queen's Consort" and think it could be a good leaderhead but not sure of the none horse mount.

UPDATE: And for some reason my attachments didn't attach.

Oh well I can try again

Okay here is the one for a new Baron Halfmorn

And the one for a Good Illian or Doviello leader

One thing I'd like to see is more building spells. Like the insta-wall, hope, and inspiration. And make the terrain improvement spells take time to cast (specifically spring). It's way too easy to terraform an entire desert with a single adept. Maybe if there were earth spells for creating and destroying hills/mountains. That would be cool.

One thing I'd like to see is more building spells. Like the insta-wall, hope, and inspiration. And make the terrain improvement spells take time to cast (specifically spring). It's way too easy to terraform an entire desert with a single adept. Maybe if there were earth spells for creating and destroying hills/mountains. That would be cool.

I totally agree! Plus, I do miss the ability to terraform that you could in SMAC. Plus often times a mountain range can cut your off from something and it would be nice to be able to lower it down to a hill.

Plus while we are on the subject, how come the Scions have a spell to heal but if you have life mana you can't heal troops in your own tile? I mean a healing spell (not just cure poison) is like a no-brainer first level spell! :eek:

Okay here is the one for a new Baron Halfmorn
:yumyum::love::woohoo::woohoo::love::yumyum:

Plus while we are on the subject, how come the Scions have a spell to heal but if you have life mana you can't heal troops in your own tile? I mean a healing spell (not just cure poison) is like a no-brainer first level spell! :eek:
I think this is represented by the fact that all disciple units have the medic promotion.

:yumyum::love::woohoo::woohoo::love::yumyum:

I figure the pop-up you get when you build him can keep his 'human' form pic.

I totally agree! Plus, I do miss the ability to terraform that you could in SMAC. Plus often times a mountain range can cut your off from something and it would be nice to be able to lower it down to a hill.

More instant buildings would be nice ...
But I disagree with lowering mountain ranges, it's removing character of some maps (Erebus, MountainCoast, ) ...

But I disagree with lowering mountain ranges, it's removing character of some maps (Erebus, MountainCoast, ) ... Creating a Tunnel or something like it could be cool though :)

Creating a Tunnel or something like it could be cool though :)

Sure, one tunnel can be cool, but not tunnels through entire mountain range ... :sad: ... (( and you can only guess their purpose ... (( to ambush you )) ))

Ahwaric,

I know you are fantastically busy, more so because of all my Civlopedia entries! I however have two requests.

First, where can I go in the code/folders to find lists of all those Great People that show up? I can't seem to find the text files that list them.

Secondly, could you possibly do your own Orbis version of this? I got it from the Ngolme's mod creator and it's rather useful when writing Civlopedia entries. However it doesn't have all the Orbis races that I can find.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7998515&postcount=25

Thirdly, is there a list or one that you use that sort of gives direction of which nationalities each Civ represents. For the most part I try to look at the leaders and stuff to find out which culture to draw from. Obviously the Scions and Mechanos are easy, but some of them are a bit harder to get names for.

First, where can I go in the code/folders to find lists of all those Great People that show up? I can't seem to find the text files that list them.They are in CIV4GameText_FFH2.xml (in /XML/Text).

Secondly, could you possibly do your own Orbis version of this? I got it from the Ngolme's mod creator and it's rather useful when writing Civlopedia entries. However it doesn't have all the Orbis races that I can find.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7998515&postcount=25You mean "Orbis civs", right? If yes, then we'd have to add Mechanos, Scions and Mazatl. As you know already, I also have an idea of where the Ngomele are. Maybe starting a new thread could be cool. I think someone can do this instead of Ahwaric, especially if we don't mess with the overall shape of the map; we could just ask vruchten to lend us their map.

You mean "Orbis civs", right? If yes, then we'd have to add Mechanos, Scions and Mazatl. As you know already, I also have an idea of where the Ngomele are. Maybe starting a new thread could be cool. I think someone can do this instead of Ahwaric, especially if we don't mess with the overall shape of the map; we could just ask vruchten to lend us their map.

Yes, I agree. Using vruchten's map, I sort of put the Scions on the Rinwell Isle since the flavored start usually puts them on an island away from everyone.

Not that is has to be this way, but previous Civlopedia entries in that thread have the Mechanos fighting the Bannor so they should be somewhere along their border.

In order to gain some XP in Python, I just enabled the summoning of any Infernal leader instead of just Hyborem. So the minor Infernal leaders will be used :p I'm going to do the same for Mercurians (as I'll add minor leaders to them). I may release this as a minimodmodmod... just want to know if it's something the other players might want.

While I can see Lizardmen being barbarian units, since Orbis has added the Matazl, it doesn't make sense that the Clan would use them. Oh sure I could see it from the "we barbarians need to stick together" but if they were there own race back in the day, they would have their own tongue and culture and even as barbarians would be different from the varied Orcish culture. Why can't the CoE hunter/ranger just be the standard graphic with the human swapped out to some orc graphic?

Another thought, perhaps even for a new Civ, is that FfH is all about duality. So like the LoTR one could see that orcs are the dark reflection of elves. Humans don't need a 'evil twin' since we can be evil on our own. But it does make you think that perhaps there should be a goblin civilization as a dark mirror to the dwarves.

Now I know I got shot down trying to get the Kahdi ported into Orbis, but perhaps if those who like the Archos from FF, perhaps they might be a good match for this hypothetical Goblin civ. I mean spiders live in the mines/underground and for the most part so do Goblins. Sure a lot of the graphics would have to be fiddled with since the Archos are a 'man' race but I'm sure something could be done about it.

Then the 'goblin' units already used by the CoE could easily be switched to be Kobolds or something without even changing the graphics.

Also, how is my suggestion about making Supplies buildable going, Ahwaric ;)

unlikely to happen, it would have to cost the as much as the most expensive building it can make

Which would be perfectly fine... Make it even more expensive, even. The point is more to transfer hammers from a well-developed city to a new one.

Which would be perfectly fine... Make it even more expensive, even. The point is more to transfer hammers from a well-developed city to a new one.
seconded :)

I wish you could make a reusable unit (300:hammers:) that you could pour production into, and it would take it to new cities, I'm thinking 2:1 ratio? make it easier to program idea, has 10 cargo, 1 movement, holds "Construction Supplies" cost 40:hammers:, pop it for 20:hammers:

Which would be perfectly fine... Make it even more expensive, even. The point is more to transfer hammers from a well-developed city to a new one.

Especially on island cities that are there to capture a resource like a unique feature or mana node.

As I've commented, it is too bad there isn't a way to semi-permanently send a unit (maybe you have to have a farmer unit and a warehouse) from the town with excess food to the town you want and then assign a :food: unit there.

I compiled a quick list of new tags. I used the Orbis editor to do it. I think I missed tags that are in files not covered by the editor: FeatureInfos, HandicapInfos, ReligionInfos, TerrainInfos, TraitInfos. I also haven't compiled anything related to python or SDK. I'll fumble across the python files to see what I can get from it :)GLOBAL DEFINES
RANGE_COMBAT_DAMAGE: Damage from ranged combat
RANGE_COMBAT_XP_PERCENTAGE: XP from ranged combat
PROMOTION_INVISIBLE_SHROUD: Nox Noctis promotion
MISCAST_PROMOTION: Promotion granted to units after miscast

Leaders Attributes
Image: Sets image used for defeat popup
DefeatQuote: Sets text used for defeat popup

Civilizations Attributes
FeatureHealthPercentChanges: allows the possibility to modify health provided by features
ImprovementYieldChanges: allows the possibility to modify the yields of a specific improvement
TerrainYieldChanges: allows the possibility to modify the yields of a specific terrain type

Buildings Attributes
PowerYieldModifiers: allows to modify food, production and trade if the city has power (exclusively used by Mechanos IIRC)

Promotion Attributes
Invisible: not sure what this one does
SeeInvisible: again, not sure
iDamageOnRemove: damage done to the unit if the promotion is removed
iChanceMiscast: sets the chance a unit has to miscast a spell
bIgnoreTerrainCosts: allows the unit to ignore terrain costs
bMoveImpassable: allows the unit to move through impassable terrain
bNoDefenseBonus: sets if the unit don't receive defense bonus from tiles?
bAllowDefenseBonus: sets if the unit receive defense bonus
TempUnitCombat: modify the UNIT_COMBAT of the unit
This three are tied to the Mounted/Unmounted promotions
iExtraSupport: sets how much maintenance the unit costs
bFreeUnit: allows the unit to not cost any maintenance
bIndependant:
iSlaveGenerationChance: sets the chance of generating a slave after combat
iAirCombat:
iAirCombatLimitBoost:
iCombatDmgCapBoost: sets how much damage a unit can do in combat?
iExtraDropRange:
PrereqInBorderEnemy: requires to be in enemy territory
PrereqInBorderNone: requires to be in neutral territory
PrereqInBorderRival: requires to be in another civ territory
PrereqInBorderTeam: requires to be in team territory
PrereqInBorderSelf: requires to be in own territory
PrereqInCity: requires to be in city
PrereqTier: requires the unit to be that tier
PrereqWeaponTier: requires the unit to has that weapon tier
PrereqPermission:
bAutoAcquire: promotion automatically gained upon completion of conditions
bMustMaintain: if conditions aren't met anymore, the promotion is lost
bNoXP: the promotion cannot be acquired by XP
iGoldCost: sets to specify a fee to acquire the promotion
PrereqbAllowNULLUnitCombat:
bEffectProm: make this promotion an Effect
PrereqUnits: specify which unit can benefit from the promotion
PrereqCivics: specify which civic is required for the promotion to be available
PrereqCivilization: specify which civilization is required for the promotion to be available
PrereqTraits: specify which trait is required for the promotion to be available
PrereqReligions: specify which (state?) religion is required for the promotion to be available
PrereqCorporations: specify which corporation is required in the city (?) for the promotion to be available
PrereqBonusORs: specify which alternative bonus is required for the promotion to be available
PrereqFeatures: specify which feature is required on the tile (?) for the promotion to be available
PrereqTerrains: specify which terrain is required on the tile for the promotion to be available
PrereqImprovement: specify which improvement is required on the tile for the promotion to be available
PrereqBuildingANDs: specify which other building is required in the city for the promotion to be available
PrereqBuildingORs: specify which alternative building is required in the city for the promotion to be available
PromotionOverwrites: specify which promotion this one overwrites when acquired
PromotionReplacedBy: specify upon which promotion acquired this one is removed
PromotionDegradesTo: specify to which promotion this one degrades to
PromotionAllows: specify which promotion this one allows the gain of
PromotionExcludes: specify which promotion this one prohibits the gain of

Units Attributes
Images: used for Great Persons to specify an image
Quotes: used for Great Persons to specify a quote
DenyPromotions: specify which promotion this unit cannot acquire
AllowPromotions: specify which promotion this unit can acquire

One of my frequent complaints is that sea 'barbarians' are way to powerful which really puts a crimp into any sort of water-borne exploration.

It came to me last night, however, that a 'easy' fix to this would be to create a barbarian unit that represents storms. I think they'd come in three forms: squalls, storms and typhoons.

These 'barbarians' would move randomly and could not be destroyed, only avoided. Squalls, being the weakest, would be most common and the dreaded (and STRONG) typhoons would be very infrequent.

The issues I see with this unit is making them immune to attack, make it so the AI doesn't try to attack them anyway. Make them last only for 2-3 turns as well as being able to attack every unit in a stack equally. I mean a storm isn't just going to smash up one galley to pieces and only 'wound' the other two in the stack.

I think this would be a good way to make being on the sea dangerous but at least a bit more avoidable. You can maneuver away from the storm and just hope it doesn't randomly hit you or dissipates before it can.

Got a question. How do you know what artwork goes to which Great Person pop-up? I've been wanting to fiddle with them but not sure how. I especially want to see about changing the GP's like Wraith-Lord which is a minor leader for example.

I'm wondering what is the dimensions needed for pop-up art. For that matter, that would be nice for leader art as well.

Got a question. How do you know what artwork goes to which Great Person pop-up? I've been wanting to fiddle with them but not sure how. I especially want to see about changing the GP's like Wraith-Lord which is a minor leader for example.You do this in UnitInfos.xml (or using the Orbis editor, Units tab). For example, you have the Great Merchant unit. Its UniqueName1 is tied to Image1 and Quote1. So you have to figure out which one is Rivanna and edit it. Just looking to the art file name is enough (ie Rivanna is the 13th great commander).

I'm wondering what is the dimensions needed for pop-up art. For that matter, that would be nice for leader art as well.384x128 for both.

Storms: that's a neat idea. I don't know if it's possible to make it so they're unkillable. Maybe the trick could be to make them quite strong, dealing collateral damage up to 100% and up to 50 units and make them create another version on themselves if they die in combat (but not if they fade after, say, five turns). The new version could be the rank just lower.

Would they replaces sea monsters altogether?

You do this in UnitInfos.xml (or using the Orbis editor, Units tab). For example, you have the Great Merchant unit. Its UniqueName1 is tied to Image1 and Quote1. So you have to figure out which one is Rivanna and edit it. Just looking to the art file name is enough (ie Rivanna is the 13th great commander).

384x128 for both.

Where can I get this Orbis editor? It sounds like something I need!

Where can I get this Orbis editor? It sounds like something I need!You can find it in the Orbis folder in your Beyond the Sword/mods folder. It's a xlsm file (Excel 2007) though.

Storms: that's a neat idea. I don't know if it's possible to make it so they're unkillable. Maybe the trick could be to make them quite strong, dealing collateral damage up to 100% and up to 50 units and make them create another version on themselves if they die in combat (but not if they fade after, say, five turns). The new version could be the rank just lower.

Would they replaces sea monsters altogether?

Well the point isn't to make the squalls strong. Pretty much the idea is a squall is going to have a possible chance to sink a galley, a storm a decent chance and a typhoon will probably sink them. By the time you get up to clipper, a squall will probably only damage the ship, a storm might sink it and a typhoon maybe a 1 in 4 chance.

I don't think they would replace the monsters, just enable their frequency to be turned down a bit.

384x128 for both.

Does it have to be this exact ratio? I'm working on this one pic and I can get the 128 part but it only comes out to something like 259 in width and that's the best I can do considering the original image.

You can find it in the Orbis folder in your Beyond the Sword/mods folder. It's a xlsm file (Excel 2007) though.

Excel 2007?!?!?!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!(/Vader voice)

Well I'll see if I can get it to work with Excel 2003 or Open Office

Does it have to be this exact ratio? I'm working on this one pic and I can get the 128 part but it only comes out to something like 259 in width and that's the best I can do considering the original image.I think it has to, yes. I never tried with anything but 384*128 images, in fact.

Well the point isn't to make the squalls strong. Pretty much the idea is a squall is going to have a possible chance to sink a galley, a storm a decent chance and a typhoon will probably sink them. By the time you get up to clipper, a squall will probably only damage the ship, a storm might sink it and a typhoon maybe a 1 in 4 chance.

I don't think they would replace the monsters, just enable their frequency to be turned down a bit.Okay. Might try this if I find time between all that I'm doing right now (and I should stop to multipost like that). I'm not sure it's the best implementation though.

Excel 2007: I know the file is from Excel 2007. I think it may be used with 2003. No, forget what I said. xlsm is for xls with macros. xlsx is specific to Excel 2007. You should be able to use it ;)

Excel 2007: I know the file is from Excel 2007. I think it may be used with 2003. No, forget what I said. xlsm is for xls with macros. xlsx is specific to Excel 2007. You should be able to use it ;)

Just Great. :( Office 2007 is Bill Gates way of giving the world the finger.

About the humongous bard-popping fest: if this is really related to the Clairone event then maybe it would be a good idea to:
Decrease its occurrence to 70% of games;
Decrease its weight to 200;
At most, you could mod it so it only triggers for one player.

For most of the tags you aren't sure about in your list Opera, just check the first post of the FF Mod-Modder's Guide. Everything should be fully explained in there (as most of those are my fields)

Yeah, I just noticed that when reading it a few hours ago, trying to figure something. I will edit my list tomorrow to add them. Thanks for pointing it out :)

(sigh) I hate being an old dog trying to learn new tricks. Oh well, that's what I get for being someone whose first programming language was BASIC. :cringe:

Yeah, you should have started with the Apple IIe :) Now THAT was some fun programming. Always hated it when I didn't leave enough blank lines and had to rewrite from scratch....

EDIT: For those unaware, that was back when a floppy disk WAS floppy, and you couldn't see all of your code at once very easily, and you had to type the line number in for which line you were writing/replacing (couldn't edit, could only overwrite), because you had a single prompt line, none of this fancy mouse-clicking business. Fortunately lines went sequentially, so you could write the first draft on every 10th line, then prey you don't have to squeeze in more than 10 lines between anything to fix your bugs or improve the codebase, otherwise you had to rewrite everything else which got in the way....

Ahhh... Monochrome Green, how I miss thee.

Yeah, you should have started with the Apple IIe :) Now THAT was some fun programming. Always hated it when I didn't leave enough blank lines and had to rewrite from scratch....

EDIT: For those unaware, that was back when a floppy disk WAS floppy, and you couldn't see all of your code at once very easily, and you had to type the line number in for which line you were writing/replacing (couldn't edit, could only overwrite), because you had a single prompt line, none of this fancy mouse-clicking business. Fortunately lines went sequentially, so you could write the first draft on every 10th line, then prey you don't have to squeeze in more than 10 lines between anything to fix your bugs or improve the codebase, otherwise you had to rewrite everything else which got in the way....

Ahhh... Monochrome Green, how I miss thee.

Actually the first computer I learned on was a terminal on a mainframe at the local Junior College back in the summer of '81. I had just finished up my freshman year of HS and since I was a honors student, I was eligible to take colleges classes. They were still teaching punch cards at the time!

I actually didn't mind the old green on black. For many years the military's excuse for computer-like machines used the black/green and it was okay. I hated the old "Compaq Amber" - Just hurt my eyes afterwhile.

I remember back in the day you'd get these books with all the code in BASIC for games and you'd have to laboriously type it in. One character out of place (usually something like a ' or a , ) and it wouldn't work. I chuckled at bit about how some people were complaining about how programs like MS-Frontpage weren't 'easy' enough!

However, to get back on topic and not let this thread bog down to a bunch of 40 something geezers talking about playing the ORIGINAL D&D (the one after Chainmail in the box with the 3 tan books) is there some links for many of these tutorials? I guess it's too much to ask they are all collected in one easy sub-forum.

Because I'm confused. Doing artwork and using the Orbis editor I see where, for example, the code says, Leader = Capria, go to here for artwork. However, I can't find that here! Plus as I mentioned way back in this thread, it would be fun to fiddle around with the music a bit. I really like Dead Can Dance, but Delerium also has some music that would fit, especially for the Council of Esus and the like.

I found all I needed in this sub-forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177). There's a particularly helpful sticky.

The art defines have their own files (in Assets/Art/). So, to change the picture of Capria, you need to go into Assets/Art/ArtDefines_Leaderheads.xml and find the one of Capria. By curiosity, what picture have you in mind? :p

I found all I needed in this sub-forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177). There's a particularly helpful sticky.

The art defines have their own files (in Assets/Art/). So, to change the picture of Capria, you need to go into Assets/Art/ArtDefines_Leaderheads.xml and find the one of Capria. By curiosity, what picture have you in mind? :p

Well see that's what got me; I did a *capria*.* search and couldn't find one.

Actually I just used her as an example. What I would like to do is as I mentioned about the lack of a G/E leader for the Scions that perhaps Korinna could be all of them with Korinna the Protector being Good, Korinna the Black being Neutral and Korinna the Red being Evil. For the latter, I though this pic might work.

That and I was thinking of using this pic as a model for an evil minor leader for the Lanun. I mean it seems Lanun + Evil = OO

They're both great pics :)

In my quest for leaderheads, I choose not to tinkle those of the Scions. I feel a bit incomfortable tweaking them, I don't know why. However, I do have a lot of potential ones for most other civs. I was planning on keeping them for my personnal pleasure but it might be cool to share them in the thread you just created.

They're both great pics :)

In my quest for leaderheads, I choose not to tinkle those of the Scions. I feel a bit incomfortable tweaking them, I don't know why. However, I do have a lot of potential ones for most other civs. I was planning on keeping them for my personnal pleasure but it might be cool to share them in the thread you just created.

Probably because the creator of the Scions is often on these Orbis threads? :p

I don't want to change the Scions. My thought was due to Ahwaric's desire for a G/N/E leader for all Civ's. Since Korinna is already able to be a leader and she already has three possible aspects, this sort of seemed a no-brainer.

Actually I like the Scions due to their Romanesque theme; makes them easier to write and do stuff with.

Actually I guess that's a question to post to the new Orbis Lore/History thread: what are the background base for all the current Civs?

Here is a wild idea. One that I'm sure can be easily ignored, but it might be fun.

In many versions of Civ, one has the option of having plagues. Now usually I didn't like these because they ended up wiping out practically every military unit in the game. Or worse, you'd get hit but some of your neighbors didn't. Not so fun. :(

However, a possible idea would be to make a special 'evil' ritual that might require this or that, that would basically infect Erebus with the Left 4 Dead zombie type virus. In this I mean pretty much 3 out of 4 units become zombies...everywhere. Obviously this would be something you might want to flag out in custom games.

On a related note, I think the Sheaim & Elohim rituals are lame. They need to boost or lower the AC by a lot more. I've never found them worth building. You'd be better off (as the Sheaim) building the Prophesy of Ragnarok (which needs a new, non-Norse name) and building 5 units which you'd probably do much faster than your ritual.

I mean I'm think something big like 15-25 or perhaps these unlock special UU to those who build them.

Relatively 'minor' graphic request. Might it be possible to change some of the Hell terrain? I'm currently playing as the Infernals. Since by their nature they have AV, you get the AV themed cottages and farms. This makes them hard to see on broken lands and big sections of Fields of Perdition almost act like one of those illusions where you have to stare at it until you see the hidden picture.

I'm not sure if it would be easier to fiddle with the AV theme or the Hell terrain, but it's really hard to see.

Oh, and as usual, I'd like to bring up that there either needs to be some sort of way to deal with Burning Sands. Many folks don't have the pimped out, tricked out, maxed out, over-clocked machines that can handle playing Civ with huge maps and 18+ Civs. I am one of those and Burning Sands crashes my game. So I'm thinking there needs to either be a flag in the custom game that will substitute a non-burning version of the Burning Sands.

Plus, I think the shallows are a bit lame. I would think something like the Dead Swamps out of the LoTRs would be better. I mean why can't Hell have plants? I mean Haunted Forests and evil swamps filled with nasties seems pretty Hellish to me.

Burning Sands needs serious help

One thing I'm noticing is that the Mechanos (and perhaps all the agnostic races) need a special victory all of their own.

I normally play with Dominion and Culture victories turned off. I do this because a conquest victory is almost impossible w/Dominion since you win that way long before you conquer everyone. While I like Culture victories, to often some player like the Kuriotates does nothing but sit, build units and culture and are often to far away to get to them before they win. Either that or since I can never seem to find out how much culture is needed to win, I don't like even trying since it usually seems to be some outrageous number that is practically unattainable. (Really, some mods have a indicator in the F1 screen of how much is needed for a city to get legendary culture - Orbis really needs that)

So how can you win as Mechanos? You can't win a Tower of Mastery victory because you can't get enough mana nodes. Even if you could build mana nodes (which I just tried with a merc adept - you can't) why would you want to since you get nothing for it and you'd rather build refined mana. So that way to victory is out.

You can't win a Altar to Luoutunar victory because it is practically impossible to get enough Great Prophets. With only the Clock Tower building, you are almost always going to get other GP's. The only Great Prophet I ever get playing the Mechanos is when I find one in a lair. Plus, while not impossible, it is also harder to win this way playing as the Risen Emperor or the Grigori. So that way to victory is out.

Consequently, since you can't spread agnosticism or Humanism, you can't win a religious victory either. So that way to victory is out.

So perhaps a special way to victory would be to raze a certain amount of Holy Cities (depending on world size) and then building some sort of "Tower to Humanism" a sort of Tower of Babel one could also call the "In Your Face, You Gods!" tower. :lol:

Good point here Arkham. Maybe severing gods influence on Erebus? Processing a ritual that would sever Erebus from access from the gods (lorewise, it could be a trick played by the One to the angels, him giving, one way or another, the means to Erebus to espace itself from angels' influence). A three-time victory: first, razing a number of holy cities in order to gather information on the ritual, maybe represented by items in game; second, gathering all the items in one city and doing a first ritual to enable the second: this ritual would cause any religious civ to DoW you (may give relationship bonus to other agnostic civs?); third: the last ritual would have to be performed in order to sever Erebus from gods' influence.

It's a very raw idea :p

--

What about bringing in civ4lerts? I like this mod in FF. Really useful :)

Edit: Wait, if it's Python only, I can even do it myself!

Good point here Arkham. Maybe severing gods influence on Erebus? Processing a ritual that would sever Erebus from access from the gods (lorewise, it could be a trick played by the One to the angels, him giving, one way or another, the means to Erebus to espace itself from angels' influence). A three-time victory: first, razing a number of holy cities in order to gather information on the ritual, maybe represented by items in game; second, gathering all the items in one city and doing a first ritual to enable the second: this ritual would cause any religious civ to DoW you (may give relationship bonus to other agnostic civs?); third: the last ritual would have to be performed in order to sever Erebus from gods' influence.

It's a very raw idea :p

--

What about bringing in civ4lerts? I like this mod in FF. Really useful :)

Edit: Wait, if it's Python only, I can even do it myself!
maybe the ritual could purge religions if the holy city has been razed, and all cities that no longer have religions gain Humanism, reducing priest spreading to 20% chance?oh and give them a unit that gains 40% versus units with religion? (might be a little high)

Two minor balancing issues:

With the 3 food per population the Malakum Aduar is not a very good improvement. I suggest that it provides +1 food with Currency and +1 commerce with Taxation. This would make it a +2 food, +1 hammer, +4 commerce improvement in total. I feel this is balanced enough considering how long it takes to grow an Aduar and how easy it is to destroy.

The Khazad worldspell "Mother Lode" has been severely nerfed when you exchanged mines for quarries. Simply make the spell grant 25 gold for every mine and quarry and it's back to strength again.

While playing the Infernals the other day, the AC hit 100 and it barely was a blip. Perhaps all those nasty AC avatars ignore Evil races or maybe just the Infernals. However, in this game, most of the remaining races where evil so a lot of the negative affects of a high AC didn't seem to bother them.

So I was thinking that perhaps a change is in order. Maybe when the AC hits 100, the dead come back to life. I remember a long time ago in FfH the Soul Forge would 'collect' all the dead of a civilization and when the AC hit a certain number they ALL came back as cranky barbarians coming out of the city that had the Soul Forge.

Well that was pretty bad for the owning civ and made me wonder why you'd ever want to build it which is probably why it got changed. So I was thinking, the code exists to track units who have been killed and there is a code to randomly place hellfire and Sect of Flies.

So perhaps when the AC gets to a certain number, the code would kick in and start to track all units killed. When the AC then gets to 100, all of these units would be randomly be distributed throughout the map and would attack everyone.

Now it would be cool in a way if you actually have the dead rise up from where they were killed but I think that would be unworkable, especially since that would mean many would show up in cities unless there could be some IF/THEN GOTO routine that would cause them to spawn a tile away from the city.

(Of course one wonders would all Scions units have a random chance to become alive? :p)

Never mind.

Good point here Arkham. Maybe severing gods influence on Erebus? Processing a ritual that would sever Erebus from access from the gods (lorewise, it could be a trick played by the One to the angels, him giving, one way or another, the means to Erebus to espace itself from angels' influence). A three-time victory: first, razing a number of holy cities in order to gather information on the ritual, maybe represented by items in game; second, gathering all the items in one city and doing a first ritual to enable the second: this ritual would cause any religious civ to DoW you (may give relationship bonus to other agnostic civs?); third: the last ritual would have to be performed in order to sever Erebus from gods' influence.

I like the sound of that one. Fits in well with the Mechanos. They need ought to offer some kind of bonus:

* Ritual #1: Requires some kind of early religious tech. Maybe allows the builder to build Students from the Dural in FF(?) Only available to Mechanos/Grigori.

* Ritual #2: Requires medium religious tech. Maybe allows the builder to build Professors from the Dural in FF. Only available to Mechanos/Grigori. All other Civs except Grigori and Mechanos declare War.

* Ritual #3: Requires high-end relgious tech, high end machinery tech and Steam Power. Puts a 30 turn clock on the game. If the city which built Ritual #3 hasn't been razed by then

As for a name for the Ritual, how about Skynet? The Lore could be about dividing Erebus from the Heavens, but I'm fairly sure most readers will be familiar with the other connotations...

Never mind.

Since I got a copy of what you wrote, I agree. However, that is exactly what I meant about the AC counter. Hell on Erebus isn't give evil types a pass. I mean in some respects I would think that the OO are still going to fight the AV and many an evil race might have the CoE. Plus evil are like the Sith, everyone fights to see who gets to be top dog as it were.

I like the sound of that one. Fits in well with the Mechanos. They need ought to offer some kind of bonus.

Very good ideas but I don't like the fact that ritual #2 causes everyone to go to war. Usually that only happens at the last ritual. Again, the agnostics are nerfed as it is; making everyone attack them (even if it makes sense lore-wise) isn't very good for game balance.

Plus, I think the Risen Emperor needs a way to win similar to the Illians in that He places Himself upon a throne like a God.

As for a name for the Ritual, how about Skynet? The Lore could be about dividing Erebus from the Heavens, but I'm fairly sure most readers will be familiar with the other connotations...

Well let's hope they don't scorch the sky...:D

One nasty thought is that perhaps the Mechanos, due to their study of mana that led to refined mana, learn of a way to 'taint' mana nodes. So perhaps their Witch Hunters could sneak in an 'poison their wells' so to speak. Or perhaps a ritual that does something bad to all mana nodes and thus perhaps shuts off the ability for units to spellcast for a certain number of turns.

Very good ideas but I don't like the fact that ritual #2 causes everyone to go to war. Usually that only happens at the last ritual. Again, the agnostics are nerfed as it is; making everyone attack them (even if it makes sense lore-wise) isn't very good for game balance.

Plus, I think the Risen Emperor needs a way to win similar to the Illians in that He places Himself upon a throne like a God.The #3, then? I think there is a need to make them go to war or at least defend against it. They would, in a way, threaten Erebus and everything that exists. Religious civs would certainly see them as harbingers of the armageddon. Even the AV civs would be mad because not having connection to gods anymore would equal not having anymore power. Now that I read your post again, I notice that you mention "everyone attack them" (as Jabie said); in my mind, it was more "everybody following a religion", meaning that if, by chance, some civ follow Humanism and thus no religion, this civ won't declare war against the Mechanos.

One nasty thought is that perhaps the Mechanos, due to their study of mana that led to refined mana, learn of a way to 'taint' mana nodes. So perhaps their Witch Hunters could sneak in an 'poison their wells' so to speak. Or perhaps a ritual that does something bad to all mana nodes and thus perhaps shuts off the ability for units to spellcast for a certain number of turns.Isn't Arcane Lacuna (or whatever it's called) already doing this? But the "mana poisoning" idea is interesting. Care to develop more?

The #3, then?

Oh definitely, just like when you start building the AoL or ToM.

I think there is a need to make them go to war or at least defend against it. They would, in a way, threaten Erebus and everything that exists. Religious civs would certainly see them as harbingers of the Armageddon.

Agreed, but again lore-wise, I can't see folks like the Bannor trading with them or why Basium wouldn't treat them (and the Grigori & Risen Emperor for that matter) as evil and declare war on them as well.

Isn't Arcane Lacuna (or whatever it's called) already doing this? But the "mana poisoning" idea is interesting. Care to develop more?

If I remember right, that just causes all mana to revert to it's base mana. Haven't seen this in action, I can't say if the following is true, but I've noticed that once a unit has access to a spell, loss of that mana doesn't affect it. So even if you lose all your mana, it only affects new adepts being built, not the ones you already have.

My thinking is tainting magic itself might cause all actual spell users (mages, druids and 'clerical' units) would get a nasty promotion to show that using tainted mana causes problems. Perhaps it might cause their spells to misfire or the wrong spell to fire or perhaps using a spell causes X amount of damage to the caster.

Now this shouldn't affect units like techmages, fauns, rangers, or any other unit that uses 'spells' simply as a game effect. (I'm assuming when a technomage upgrades a tile, he's doing it via some form of scientific terraforming) I mean don't flag-bearers have a 'spell' that is similar to loyalty? Same effect, but I doubt they cause loyalty through magic but rather patriotism (flag-waving indeed!)

Agreed, but again lore-wise, I can't see folks like the Bannor trading with them or why Basium wouldn't treat them (and the Grigori & Risen Emperor for that matter) as evil and declare war on them as well.I'm not sure that Basium would want to go after the Grigori... after the Mechanos, if they did launch a sort of big quest to end the gods' grasp on Erebus, yeah, possibly. That's totally doable. Since it would be done in python, you can check if the player (AI) is Basium or not and if it is, it declares war on Mechanos even if not following any religion. However, that would still require the #3 ritual.

If I remember right, that just causes all mana to revert to it's base mana. Haven't seen this in action, I can't say if the following is true, but I've noticed that once a unit has access to a spell, loss of that mana doesn't affect it. So even if you lose all your mana, it only affects new adepts being built, not the ones you already have.I may be mistaken. Maybe it's in FF that their spell does that... I remember a game where they used it and a red text appeared above the score table, like with Stasis, saying: "Spellcasting disabled for 30 turns".

My thinking is tainting magic itself might cause all actual spell users (mages, druids and 'clerical' units) would get a nasty promotion to show that using tainted mana causes problems. Perhaps it might cause their spells to misfire or the wrong spell to fire or perhaps using a spell causes X amount of damage to the caster.

Now this shouldn't affect units like techmages, fauns, rangers, or any other unit that uses 'spells' simply as a game effect. (I'm assuming when a technomage upgrades a tile, he's doing it via some form of scientific terraforming) I mean don't flag-bearers have a 'spell' that is similar to loyalty? Same effect, but I doubt they cause loyalty through magic but rather patriotism (flag-waving indeed!)Maybe a ritual that cause every arcane and adept units in the world to gain the Tainted Magic promotion, causing, say, 80% miscast? It may also be possible to add damage when miscasting.

Mana Poisoning: Give the Witch Hunter a spell to build Tainted Nodes on Mana Nodes. I suggest the art looks like an unenhanced mana node, but greeny-yellow in colour or has "unhealthy smoke"

Whilst a node is Tainted it is no longer available for new spell-casters and won't provide affinity bonuses. (Optionally tainted nodes could allow spell-caster to receive Magic Resistance I-III)

Allow construction in Foreign Territory but with the proviso that doing so will be treated as a hostile act. This means that the reversal effect is for the Civ in question to send their own adepts to the affected Mana Node and build it back into a functioning Node - a feature which is already in the game and hence won't need to be coded or taught to new players.

As an additional option a new (rare) event can become available: Tainted Mana - A random Mana node becomes tainted. This is important if the Witch Hunter somehow become invisible and you are playing a multi-player game.

Mana Poisoning: Give the Witch Hunter a spell to build Tainted Nodes on Mana Nodes. I suggest the art looks like an unenhanced mana node, but greeny-yellow in colour or has "unhealthy smoke"

(snip)

As an additional option a new (rare) event can become available: Tainted Mana - A random Mana node becomes tainted. This is important if the Witch Hunter somehow become invisible and you are playing a multi-player game.

Well theoretically as much as it's nice to have the mana, one would expect that the Mechanos would be required to raze a city taken that has a Holy City. However, I would think that wouldn't apply to the CoE since it's not supposedly a religion. How that could be coded I'm not sure. However, by taking that "Holy" City, then the Mechanos could gain invisibility, correct? I don't play w/CoE very often.

One thing I'm noticing is that the Mechanos (and perhaps all the agnostic races) need a special victory all of their own.

So perhaps a special way to victory would be to raze a certain amount of Holy Cities (depending on world size) and then building some sort of "Tower to Humanism" a sort of Tower of Babel one could also call the "In Your Face, You Gods!" tower. :lol:
Good idea, but I do not want to add victory condition for just one civ. Illians do not get one. Maybe some kind of ascension for all non-god types? But how to separate which one actually won?
Two minor balancing issues:
Both good points. I will add it.
So I was thinking that perhaps a change is in order. Maybe when the AC hits 100, the dead come back to life. I remember a long time ago in FfH the Soul Forge would 'collect' all the dead of a civilization and when the AC hit a certain number they ALL came back as cranky barbarians coming out of the city that had the Soul Forge.
Nice idea. I think some changes to armageddon are needed to make it more scary and that is a good idea. But I think that evil guys should get some kind of protection. Perhaps it is time to separate barbarians to barbarians and demons and make AV and OO civs at peace with them? I.e. with a ritual as in FF?

I may be mistaken. Maybe it's in FF that their spell does that... I remember a game where they used it and a red text appeared above the score table, like with Stasis, saying: "Spellcasting disabled for 30 turns".
No, it is the normal FfH behaviour now. It got changed some time ago.

Any chance of borrowing "autocast" code from FF ?? (( http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=320249 )) :)

Ahwaric: I would like to know what do you think about the Master buildings of FF and, especially, about their equipments. I like it and plan on doing something similar for the Ngomele, mostly to balance the fact that they don't have access to any "weapons" promotion.

Question: Has anybody else been having problems with some units? I've played as the Bannor and the Elohim, and both times certain units (fort commanders, hunters, etc.) I could only control through hotkeys because there were no command buttons. I couldn't promote them either. It looks like an awesome mod, but this is kind of ruining the experience for me, only being able to promote warriors and scouts...

About the +1 food on coasts and oceans. Was that really needed? I felt the 3 food with Lighthouse was good a enough break even situation. Lanun have been seriously boosted by this change, which might not have been intended.

Ahwaric: I would like to know what do you think about the Master buildings of FF and, especially, about their equipments. I like it and plan on doing something similar for the Ngomele, mostly to balance the fact that they don't have access to any "weapons" promotion.

I'm sure as heck not Ahwaric, so don't place too much credence on my thoughts, but my personal take is that all the different types of kit and traps is a level of micromanagement too far.

Re: making Armageddon more scary. I think the More Events mod took some of the Armageddon events discussed in the main forum. Might be worth a look...

Re: Victory condition for Agnostic civs. Snare of the Heavens (or whatever the Final Ritual is called) could be applied to Scions and Illians fairly easily. Create your Avatar - Auric Ascended, Risen Emperor, Basium, Hyperborem or whoever. Cast the ritual which liberates man from the Gods... if you have the only Avatar after X turns. However after X turns, if there is more than one Avatar in play, the inherent imbalances destroys the Snare of the Heavens. Man cannot serve two Masters....

We've discussed Mechanos build-up to Emancipation from the Gods (or whatever this type of victory is called). Given their background, their Avatar could be a(n immobile) giant Difference Engine in their Capital city that boosts their science rate. Cue 10,000 Names of God by Arthur C Clarke. If their Capital falls, they're out of the running for this type of Victory.

Scions - Perhaps some kind of way of blurring the line between life and death to restore Patria to it's full glory. The further along the ritual chain the the greater the chances of Awakened appearing. Naturally messing about with the natural order is going to annoy the Sidar no end.

I've no idea how to fit the Grigori into this scheme, where Brigit fits into this scheme, whether Cassiel and Sabathiel would count, whether or not Odio would break free, and, most significantly of all, whether any of these could be coded (in a manner which the AI understands).

It would be cool if city culture wouldn't be allowed to reach other side of mountain range ...
i mean:

We have this situation:
("C" - city, "g" - grassland, "M" - peak)

ggggggCgggggg
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
ggggggggggggg


Culture (as it is now):

ggggggCgggggg
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
ggggggggggggg


So I suggest to restrict it to this:
(something like this is already implemented for water - you can't have culture more than 2 plots to the sea)

ggggggCgggggg
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMM
ggggggggggggg

heh, one more question ... what all is causing mutation ?? i'm playing as Mechanos, and some my units have mutation after creation ... and i don't have chaos mana ... *confused*

I think that some Favourite Civic and Favourite Wonder should be rethinked. They always seem to be the same, as if they were never changed since they were added.

I'd agree, if just to make each civ's leader slightly more different.

Can't find a better place to put this. :lol:

Ahwaric, would you mind if I incorporated some of Orbis features into FFPlus? Sent you a PM about it a few days ago, haven't heard back yet. :p

Took a break from Civ 4 and tried out Elven Legacy. Not a bad TBS, with quite a lot of neat ideas, but sadly suffers from pretty dull level design. Makes me wish I could rip the sounds for use in Orbis though. :D

To the point then. There's a spell that scares unit and forces them to retreat one hex. Pretty handy. I wondered if such an effect could be introduced into Orbis? Forcing a unit to retreat, even without damaging it, sounds like an interesting tactical tool. Would be the equivalent of a lvl 3 spell though since a retreating unit can move huge distances. In my current game a hunter retreated from one continent to another, across an entire ocean. Now that's one seriously demoralized unit.

Ahwaric, you've been quiet of late? Working on bringing Orbis up to FfH 0.41? :goodjob:

Ahwaric, you've been quiet of late? Working on bringing Orbis up to FfH 0.41? :goodjob:Nooooo! I don't want to update! Boo-hoo!

:p

Been busy, but working on some addions and tweaks right now.

Did not know that 0.41 is ready...
I am going to update to it, too.
Probably a few more days before new version. Plus I hope to make Pythonpostcombat tags for promotions work.

So both pros and cons Opera :)

Been busy, but working on some addions and tweaks right now.

Did not know that 0.41 is ready...
I am going to update to it, too.
Probably a few more days before new version. Plus I hope to make Pythonpostcombat tags for promotions work.

So both pros and cons Opera :)Indeed! This tag would be useful :goodjob:

Been busy, but working on some addions and tweaks right now.

Did not know that 0.41 is ready...

I noticed it this morning. Also, any time we might see an updated "What Ahwaric still needs?" I know a lot of us dump a lot of things on you so there is still a lot you may still have pending to be updated. I'm finishing up my US Census work so will have more time to work on GP and Civlopedia entries.

What's not working about them? Just a part of the import, or is the raw tag itself not working right? Played with it myself recently in my Dev version, and I am pretty sure it was working for me, but I didn't test extensively enough (so if there is an issue I'd love to know now before Fall Further's official release starts to actually use it)

I know for a fact that they work fine in FF. I've been using them for a few functions. :lol:

Oh, quick note I just remembered: In the postcombat function I was writing I wanted to run a convert function on one of the units, it was a Capture type of routine, so I was using the standard approach of creating a copy unit under the new owner, then running pUnit1.convert(pUnit2) or whatnot, but I fortunately thought to check the DLL before attempting to run this. MANY pointers refer to each of the units after this python has run, so if you delete either unit with a .kill() or .convert() function, you'll cause a crash.


So, make sure you aren't doing something along those lines with the code causing the function to be broken for you. I imagine it would show up as a NULL POINTER crash which tends to lack much information and be overall annoying to track down.

I noticed it this morning. Also, any time we might see an updated "What Ahwaric still needs?" I know a lot of us dump a lot of things on you so there is still a lot you may still have pending to be updated. I'm finishing up my US Census work so will have more time to work on GP and Civlopedia entries.
Thanks for asking!
I want to have a new pak file in the new version, so it would be nice to include as much art as possible in it.
So, if you have any spare time, please check the great people for any pictures non-fitting in your opinion, plus for new great generals (you are creator after all). Or any other needed GP art listed in the GP thread - ie the ones that became minor leaders.
Pedia entries are still needed, and I am happy with any other things you provide.
Plus I need my own slave coder and art moddeler ;)

What's not working about them? Just a part of the import, or is the raw tag itself not working right? Played with it myself recently in my Dev version, and I am pretty sure it was working for me, but I didn't test extensively enough (so if there is an issue I'd love to know now before Fall Further's official release starts to actually use it)
Well, I have imported every line containing "PostCombat" from CvInfos.cpp, CvInfos.h, CvUnit.cpp and CyInfoInterface1.cpp. Also, I have added it to CIV4PromotionInfos.xml and CIV4UnitSchema.xml. Everything compiles fine, game starts ok but even if I add something simple as postcombatexplode (from pyre zombies) to to the tag (should the related python be in CvSpellInterface.py?) it does not run when I do simple combat between units and one of them has the right promo. No crash either.
It works in FF - I have tested it. No idea what is wrong, I am probably making some stupid mistake.... I just have no idea what is it.

Most everything should be set up for it since from what I can see Greyfox just linked in to the already existing PostCombat tags in UnitInfos. So all of the formatting would match exactly what is used there, and I would imagine that the PyreZombie code ought to work for you.

Ah, I see now, he has it set to have a different intermediate python function, so make sure you import def postPromotionCombatWon/Lost(argslist) in CvSpellInterface.py

OK minor noobish question here since I'm unused to dealing with the artwork in civ...

Ahwaric, I know you changed your quarry graphics to include the extra stone, but can't seem to find this graphic (if you dont mind me stealing it ;)).

I know you might need to unpack something. Is there any chance you could direct me on how to do this?

Also, did you do anything special with the bonuses that use the quarry so that they can be distinguished from un-resourced quarries?

Thanks dude :)

Al

Ah, I see now, he has it set to have a different intermediate python function, so make sure you import def postPromotionCombatWon/Lost(argslist) in CvSpellInterface.py
That was it! Works fine now :) Thanks :)
Ahwaric, I know you changed your quarry graphics to include the extra stone, but can't seem to find this graphic (if you dont mind me stealing it ;)).
I know you might need to unpack something. Is there any chance you could direct me on how to do this?
Sure, take anything you need. I added the "quarry" part as it is usually part of the bonus, only the crane comes from unmodded improvement.
You need the pakbuild to unpack pak files (:crazyeye:). Get it here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=136023). The xp version works on vista for me.
Also, did you do anything special with the bonuses that use the quarry so that they can be distinguished from un-resourced quarries?
Al
No, I have added quarry part only. The bonus art is from the bonus and it looks fine

Just a bit curious about the apparent lack of balancing of the minor leaders. Some get 3 traits and others just 1. Wouldn't it make more sense if each of them received just one trait? With perhaps another trait being tacked on only if they come with a "flaw" like Foolish?

I always go for a minor leader these days and the Minor disadvantage is very easy to negate. Having four, sometimes even five, traits makes the game pretty easy. I could understand if the point was to help the AI but as a player it almost feels like cheating.

Starting with one trait and gaining up to two (thus having three) would be enough I think. At first, I thought that starting with zero and gaining up to three would be cool but it would negate all the differences between those minor leaders. Besides, I think the minor leaders in the original modmod have all just one trait (bar the minor trait). Maybe the malus for this trait should be enhanced too. I also think that "Minor" should be changed; it's good for a gameplay thing but as a flavour thing, it means nothing. "Inexperienced" or "Young" could be great replacements (I'm not sure the first one is an actual word though).

That was it! Works fine now :) Thanks :)

Sure, take anything you need. I added the "quarry" part as it is usually part of the bonus, only the crane comes from unmodded improvement.
You need the pakbuild to unpack pak files (:crazyeye:). Get it here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=136023). The xp version works on vista for me.

No, I have added quarry part only. The bonus art is from the bonus and it looks fine

Ty muchas Ahwaric :D

Gonna play around later tonight :)

Al

Hey, does anyone know where it shows how the minor traits are gained/lost? I've only gotten one, ever, Spiritual... and I'm STILL not even sure how. XD Ironically it was on the guy who had magic resistance and something else....

You can find your answers here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7635400&postcount=3), as I think Ahwaric didn't change much of it.

Didn't know where else to put this... don't think its a minor request tho. But would be a nice option for orbi IMO.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=321635 -game speeds and map sizes

Another interesting idea

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=320206 -Second chance heroes

@sputnik: Both of those features are interesting... I add them to my list :p

On another subject, I'm once again skimming through the XML of the Leaders and I think they should be very different. Currently, they all give +2 for Open Borders after 25 turns or so. They all have a maximum of +3 for sharing a war, etc. I think they need refining, making them really different. Some could give +4 for Open Borders; some could still give +2 but would only give so after 50 turns; some would just give +1 and after 30 turns; some wouldn't even give you relation bonus! I could see Basium give till +6 for sharing war while Einion would only give +2.

A nice thing: when deciding to attack a stack, two values are taken into account: iBaseAttackOddsChange and iAttackOddsChangeRand. The second is a set of values in which one is added to the first. So, having 4 in Base and 6 in Rand could give 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 (maybe in negative too, I don't know). The Balseraphs have 0 in the first and 16 in the second :lol:

Edit: BTW, the Mazatl, who are now able to adopt a religion, still have 0 as maximum bonus for same religion and 0 as maximum malus for different religion :p

@Opera, That is a fantasic idea to flavor the leaders! anything to improve diplomacy has my vote. You should check out what snarko has done to fix diplomacy (may save you some time or coding or give you further ideas) Snarko's forum link with improved AI diplomacy (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=226635) especially the part where AI's will make demands of other AI's!

- as a separate diplomacy issue... it would be nice for the AI to forget past history after a while and not be so mad at a war in the first 25 turns at turn 600, or still be happy that they were your ally long ago, and now you aren't helping them. I have no idea of the coding for this or if its even possible :P

I agree, interesting additions sputnik. Not sure yet though ;)

Regarding leaders, thanks for the tips. Truth be told, I was always scared by all the AI weigths and Leaders personality. So there is a lot to fix and improve...

And now something completly different (?)

As you can see in the patch log in the bug thread, 0.23 will bring some big changes to game, especially regarding barbarians. So, I have couple questions. I do not want to start another thread and some of them a related to minor things, so here we go.


Currently only doviello are at peace with animals, but I think Ljosalfar could be ok, too. Of course there need to be a way to allow them to still capture animals (Doviello+ ?). Also, I think I will keep Charadon as barbarian (so he is at peace with both animals and orcs)

Minor leaders traits - more than one (save minor) trait was inherited form scenarios. I think I can either force myslef to reduce the number of traits on minor leaders or increase it on normal ones. If going the reduction way, I think it should be either one big trait or two small ones Small in my opinion include : defender, arcane, magic resistant, ingenious.

I think of adding new music for renaissance era and I think Arcanum (I love this game, at least from the flavour side) has nice one for the version of the renaissance (and the civs that actually are going to use it). You can get it here (http://www.terra-arcanum.com/sierra/media/media-soundtrack.html) I think at least 16 & 13 (and maybe 17) will be in, but I am tempted to add more.


There was more, but it is all I remeber for now, so please tell me what do you think. Please feel free to post any other concerns regarding 23, too.

Currently only doviello are at peace with animals, but I think Ljosalfar could be ok, too. Of course there need to be a way to allow them to still capture animals (Doviello+ ?). Also, I think I will keep Charadon as barbarian (so he is at peace with both animals and orcs)

Yes I was wondering about this. Could they be given memorize animal that can only be cast once or has a bigger chance to fail? May just need to make a new promotion that does a similar thing with possible negative consequences like dungeon searching or prospecting; e.g. where if it fails the unit gets rabies or withered.

Also with the split between barbarian races will we see coastal raiders where orcs come off of ships to land. In pangea maps orcs don't have a place to spawn, and it would be cool to have them come off the ocean. Orcish pirates just gets me stoked!

I gave them a mezmerize animal spell... You DO have to tweak it slightly so that those belonging to the Animal civ are always valid to capture, but I've already done that. :lol:

Here's my code for it:

def reqMezmerizeAnimal(caster):
iX = caster.getX()
iY = caster.getY()
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
iTeam = pPlayer.getTeam()
eTeam = gc.getTeam(iTeam)
iAnimal = gc.getPlayer(gc.getANIMAL_PLAYER())
for iiX in range(iX-1, iX+2, 1):
for iiY in range(iY-1, iY+2, 1):
pPlot = CyMap().plot(iiX,iiY)
for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL'):
if pUnit.getTeam() == iAnimal.getTeam():
return True
if eTeam.isAtWar(pUnit.getTeam()):
return True
return False

def spellMezmerizeAnimal(caster):
iX = caster.getX()
iY = caster.getY()
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
iTeam = pPlayer.getTeam()
eTeam = gc.getTeam(iTeam)
iAnimal = gc.getPlayer(gc.getANIMAL_PLAYER())
for iiX in range(iX-1, iX+2, 1):
for iiY in range(iY-1, iY+2, 1):
pPlot = CyMap().plot(iiX,iiY)
for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL'):
if eTeam.isAtWar(pUnit.getTeam()):
if pUnit.isDelayedDeath() == False:
if pUnit.isResisted(caster, gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_MEZMERIZE_ANIMAL')) == False:
newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), caster.getX(), caster.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
newUnit.convert(pUnit)
if pUnit.getTeam() == iAnimal.getTeam():
if pUnit.isDelayedDeath() == False:
if pUnit.isResisted(caster, gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_MEZMERIZE_ANIMAL')) == False:
newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(pUnit.getUnitType(), caster.getX(), caster.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
newUnit.convert(pUnit)

Regarding leaders, thanks for the tips. Truth be told, I was always scared by all the AI weigths and Leaders personality. So there is a lot to fix and improve...Yeah, that's nothing. Those tags aren't very intuitive and it takes more than one tutorial about them to understand it all.


Currently only doviello are at peace with animals, but I think Ljosalfar could be ok, too. Of course there need to be a way to allow them to still capture animals (Doviello+ ?). Also, I think I will keep Charadon as barbarian (so he is at peace with both animals and orcs)

Minor leaders traits - more than one (save minor) trait was inherited form scenarios. I think I can either force myslef to reduce the number of traits on minor leaders or increase it on normal ones. If going the reduction way, I think it should be either one big trait or two small ones Small in my opinion include : defender, arcane, magic resistant, ingenious.

I think of adding new music for renaissance era and I think Arcanum (I love this game, at least from the flavour side) has nice one for the version of the renaissance (and the civs that actually are going to use it). You can get it here (http://www.terra-arcanum.com/sierra/media/media-soundtrack.html) I think at least 16 & 13 (and maybe 17) will be in, but I am tempted to add more.


There was more, but it is all I remeber for now, so please tell me what do you think. Please feel free to post any other concerns regarding 23, too.So...

For the minors, I think reducing is the way to go. I will take a look at them, if you want.

Feel free to add new music, it's always good :) As I have you, I was wondering if adding two separate tracks for Peace and War for the Ngomele was ok?

I have neither objections nor suggestions for the feral/barbarians... I don't think the Ngomele would be either of these as they would hunt down animals for food and as they really don't like those petty savages.

One concern though... No wait, I've forgotten. Huh. Crap. Where's my brain? :crazyeye:

@sputnik:

I will look at Snarko's mod ;)

The thing you describe is called memory decay and is already in the game, I think... I know there is tags like that. Maybe they are too high, though. I'll check ;)

For the Orcs Pirates, I don't know... IIRC, the AI isn't good with ships and neither are barbarians. But the issue could be caused by the fact that barbarians ships spawn empty.

I was more into reducing traits as well. Will take a look then, if I run into any problems I will ask. But if you have any suggestions, feel free to post them.
For now, Vola will be arcane/magic resistant and minor, while Laggs will loose aggressive and just be ingenious/magic resistant/minor. Other will have to check.

I think ngomelle can be at peace with animals - for the same reasons as doviello. Animals hunt each other. Both civs hunt animals, but are close to nature I think - one way or another. Plus most of the animals in civ are predators anyway.

Pirates are not in, but are another thing I would like to add. But I doub they will come with base 0.23

One more thing to ask that I forgot before - with elections added to republic, I think it needs rebalancing. So, should I cut any of the bonuses?

I was more into reducing traits as well. Will take a look then, if I run into any problems I will ask. But if you have any suggestions, feel free to post them.
For now, Vola will be arcane/magic resistant and minor, while Laggs will loose aggressive and just be ingenious/magic resistant/minor. Other will have to check.I'll see :)

I think ngomelle can be at peace with animals - for the same reasons as doviello. Animals hunt each other. Both civs hunt animals, but are close to nature I think - one way or another. Plus most of the animals in civ are predators anyway.Yes but they really hunt animals, even in gameplay. That's how they can gather more food, so being at peace with animals would prevent them for using this mechanic (well, they use it on everything but...). Or maybe they could use animals in city to gain food...

Pirates are not in, but are another thing I would like to add. But I doub they will come with base 0.23That would be nice to have that! I don't know how you would set it up though...

One more thing to ask that I forgot before - with elections added to republic, I think it needs rebalancing. So, should I cut any of the bonuses?Is there somewhere I can check what those bonuses are?

I mean the bonuses listed in civic screen. Currently the republic grants:

+25% great people growth
double growth of cottages, yurts etc.
+ 10% :commerce: in all cities
+ 20% :culture: in all cities
+ 3 :) in largest cities (number dependant on map size)

New in 0.23:

Periodical elections that grant one extra trait applied till the next election
possible are: aggressive, defensive, financial, expansive, spiritual, oragnized and two more that I have forgotten
80% for a chosen one of the two possible at every election or 100% to randomly picked from the two


So, the question is, should I remove something from the above list to keep the civic balanced (yet still good and flavourful?).

Edit: I agree on Ngomele and animals. I have yet to make doviello (and probably Ljosalfar) still able to capture animals for totems and combat while at peace with them. When I finish, you will decide if it would be ok for Ngomele, too.

Oh, I thought you meant the bonus gained through elections...
In the case of the civic's bonuses, I don't know. I'm not really good at balancing civics, it seems. I need to think about it...

Some diplomay texts need to be done. My dream would be to have diplomacy text for each leader rather than for each civilization, as it is now. For example, all three leaders of the Calabim have the same texts... And some haven't any (mostly the minor leaders added by Orbis: Maer, Vola, etc.).

Maybe we could set up a thread for diplomacy texts... I wonder if you could give it a go, Arkham? As you seem at ease with writing stuff. Of course, anyone could do it. The more people contribute, the better ;)

Maybe we could set up a thread for diplomacy texts... I wonder if you could give it a go, Arkham? As you seem at ease with writing stuff. Of course, anyone could do it. The more people contribute, the better ;)

I second a thread for diplomacy texts. Heck, I would even write some myself if I knew what kind of texts that were needed and how many they were.

I second a thread for diplomacy texts. Heck, I would even write some myself if I knew what kind of texts that were needed and how many they were.

I'm sorry, I had an odd dream about France in Africa a few nights ago so I've been playing "France in Africa" in Europa Universalis II. That and playing two quick game of FF & Planetfall to see if they fix the bugs that was causing it to crash withing the first 10 turns.

What is needed?

Actually, on the subject of diplomacy, I was wondering how hard is it to change options due to combat? The reason I ask is because SMAC had a really good function when negotiating peace that Civ IV lacks. Basically in SMAC you might be at war with someone who is also at war with an ally or just a 'friend of convenience' - from a position of strength you could make a condition of the peace treaty be that the Civ stop fighting your ally.

Often times in Civ IV you get offered peace and you want to take it, but in doing so you are merely freeing up your enemy to whale on another Civ. You obviously don't want your enemy to A) wipe out an ally and B) get stronger because of it. Yet unlike SMAC, there isn't a diplomatic option to say, "Oh and stop fighting the Luirchirp while you're at it or it's "GAME ON!" till you die!"

"Oh and stop fighting the Luirchirp while you're at it or it's "GAME ON!" till you die!"

Diplomacy is one of the weakest(least developed), yet one of the most important parts of Civ IV IMO. I could be fighting 6 wars and the stupid AI wants me to join their war, and when i don't... it's hell to pay :(

Yeah, diplomacy could use a lot of improvement...

Regarding diplomacy texts, feel free to create new thread. I would love to have more flavourfull texts.

Just in case, I am attaching current editor if anyone wants to check what is needed etc. Look at the bottom of the first post of the changelog thread (in a few minutes)

Great! Many things will be useful in there, especially the UniqueBuildings and UniqueUnits. More intuitive like that. Do you think you will change the editor before releasing? Knowing if I can begin merging or not...

I'll take care of the diplomacy thread. I like doing big first post with a lot of ambition... :lol:

It might be a lot cooler to just give all the Doviello units Subdue Animal (and totems) instead of making them at peace. (I don't quite get why you'd do that, anyway, but I'm not the most up to date person on everything.)

Ljolsalfar I could see at peace with the animals. Make their Hunters a Tracker UU with mesmerize ability.

Anyone who could fix diplomacy would truly be a great man (or woman, but everyone knows they don't exist on the internet).

Yeah, and you say that with a woman writing above you :p

(it's either that or I am hallucinating again)

Hello, I have a request. I usually play FF, but I would love to try out OrbisMod. However, the current version (22d I think) requires FFH 0.40 Patch Z, which does not appear to be available anymore. Does anyone know where I can dowload patch Z?

EDIT: finally found it hidden awat in the Welcome to Orbis thread. It's all good.

Why are leaders considered Minor? I understand the purpose oft he trait for Scenario leaders, but.. not elsewhere.

This is /not/ a transparent attempt at a semblance of gender equality, most certainly not motivated by generally prefering to select female characters. Quit asking. :|

In a related sidenote, I did not notice until Orbis that Mahala was female. I thought Rule 63 was in effect until I actually looked closer at the portrait in FFH2. I'm guessing that was why the portrait was changed in the first place?

Mahala: her original portrait is a male portrait from Icewind Dale 2, iirc. She's suposed to be female from the start. Lorewise she was already female and even in the XML she was <bFemale>1</bFemale>, meaning she was female. Basically, yes, her picture wasn't that good at telling she was a she so Ahwaric replaced it with the girl from Age of Conan. I then suggested another picture more fitting and it was eventually added.

Minor leaders: are Minor leaders who aren't in the base mod. Actually, I prefer playing with minor leaders. I like the "gain trait(s)" mechanic. Are you suggesting that most of the minor are females? If so, then you're wrong. IIRC, there is more minor males (17:14).

Mahala: her original portrait is a male portrait from Icewind Dale 2, iirc. She's suposed to be female from the start. Lorewise she was already female and even in the XML she was <bFemale>1</bFemale>, meaning she was female. Basically, yes, her picture wasn't that good at telling she was a she so Ahwaric replaced it with the girl from Age of Conan. I then suggested another picture more fitting and it was eventually added.

Minor leaders: are Minor leaders who aren't in the base mod. Actually, I prefer playing with minor leaders. I like the "gain trait(s)" mechanic. Are you suggesting that most of the minor are females? If so, then you're wrong. IIRC, there is more minor males (17:14).

No, I just hadn't noticed they were very.. what's the word? ubiquitous, and was looking at Maer, to try out Mechanos.

What's this "Gains traits" mechanic? I just picked up Orbis this morning and have tried out a sample game after looking over some of the mechanics (Especially the yummy Civics) changes. Do Minors gain traits?

No, I just hadn't noticed they were very.. what's the word? ubiquitous, and was looking at Maer, to try out Mechanos.

What's this "Gains traits" mechanic? I just picked up Orbis this morning and have tried out a sample game after looking over some of the mechanics (Especially the yummy Civics) changes. Do Minors gain traits?Huh? I guess Orbis description isn't up to date :lol:

The Minor trait isn't just a negative trait seemingly arbitrary. In fact, leaders with this trait are able to gain up to two new traits during the game, according to their actions. This or these new trait(s) will replace the minor trait, effectively removing any negative side. For a list of criterions for gaining new traits, see this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7635400&postcount=3). I don't think Orbis changed much of this. Maybe something could be changed, though. Didn't think of it before...

I really think we should have a pedia category for traits in which we could explain what eh Minor trait is and show the criterions. More work... :D

They do.

When Minor leader acomplishes something (founds religion, builds wonder, razes a city, discovers specific tech) there is a chance that they will lose minor trait (which is negative) and gets appropiate normal trait (i.e. spiritual if founded religion).
Two traits (magic resistant and ingenious) can be acquired without losing minor one, thus allowing one extra trait.

Edit: beaten to explain :)
And I agree, more work :sigh:

And I agree, more work :sigh: I can do it if you want. It should not be that hard and I like to work with python... :p

Minor leaders are able to gain new traits based on your play style.

Edit: Woops, missed a page here. :lol:

They do.

When Minor leader acomplishes something (founds religion, builds wonder, razes a city, discovers specific tech) there is a chance that they will lose minor trait (which is negative) and gets appropiate normal trait (i.e. spiritual if founded religion).
Two traits (magic resistant and ingenious) can be acquired without losing minor one, thus allowing one extra trait.

Edit: beaten to explain :)
And I agree, more work :sigh:

how do you gain magic resistant, and ingenious

how do you gain magic resistant, and ingeniousLook there, it's all in the manual :p

A different request:

When a totem is adopted, can you put a bear or whatnot behind the Hunters, like when a Great General joins a unit? Or since you actually have Great Generals, would that clutter too much?

I thought rangers lost the ability to use iron a few versions back? Am i bugged, confused or did this feature make a return? if so, it they maybe a bit unbalanced especially for Svart

If a Tolerant leader builds someone else's palace, does it shift their capitol, or add a palace?

And expanding on that note from last page I didn't notice before, I think one really nice option would be the ability to serve as intermediary (Either objective or not). I love using diplomacy thematically, even if it sucks, and it'd be nice to say, set up a web of defensive pacts..

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpo...2&postcount=29 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8122712&postcount=29) Would be nice to have a shiny new huge hero with Valkrionn's changes for mechanos :)

Edit: thanks Seon it works now

It says page not found :(

It works for me. But if you can't get it here's what he said:
Here's a preview of my version of Goliath... ;)

I merged in Warkirby's Monstrous Creatures module, allowing me to make Goliath the superpowered behemoth he always wanted to be. :p Also made an Immortal UU, tentatively named the Vulture. I've also changed the graphics to that of the Clockwork golem... I don't like reusing graphics, but it's more steampunk than a mech.

Goliath:

Melee Unit
300 :hammers:
Requires Alchemy and Mithril Working
28 :strength:
9 Ranged :strength:, 50% ranged damage limit
4 :move:
1 Range
2 First Strikes
No Defense Bonus
Ignores Terrain Movement Cost
Starts with :

Hero
Magic Immune
Mechanical

Refined Mana Affinity


Resident Machine Spirit

20% chance to grant Machine Spirit each turn.

50% chance of wearing off.
+1 :move:
+1 Range
+20% Collateral
+1 :strength:
Suffers 25% less Collateral




Monstrous Creature (From Warkirby's Monstrous Creatures Module)

Flat terrain movement cost (can't use roads, but isn't slowed by forests/hills either)
Ignores terrain defence on attack
Doesn't recieve defensive bonuses
Causes Collateral Damage. Up to 6 targets, with no damage limit. Can kill!
+25% vs Melee
-25% vs Archery units
-50% vs Siege Weapons
+25% City defence
Immune to collateral damage
+1 visibility range
50% poison resistance




Can use the Siege Configuration ability.

3 turn delay
Grants the Siege Configuration promotion.

Changes UnitCombat to Siege
-14 Attack :strength:, -7 Defense :strength:
+7 Ranged :strength:
+50% Ranged Damage Limit, to a total of 100%
+90% Collateral Damage
+5 Collateral Targets
-1 :move:
+1 Range
+50% City Bombard
-2 First Strikes
+5 City Defense when stationed in a city.
Allows Melee Configuration ability.

3 turn delay.
Removes the Siege Configuration promotion.

Approximately 12 hours into my Scions games, a rival completes Glory Everlasting... despite the Civipedia stating that it banishes demons it also banishes undead :confused:

I guess it's just as bad as if it where the Infernals, which I know is a feature... However is the effect on undead a bug or feature?

Is there any way to stop or remove haunted lands?

They don't usually seem to be a problem, but in a big epic game I'm trying out, it's starting to feel like I'm going to get over run. It feel worse than hell!

I guess it's just as bad as if it where the Infernals, which I know is a feature... However is the effect on undead a bug or feature?
Bug. Fixed in 0.23 (will damage Scions, but not kill - save for Bone horde and such). I have fixed some other scions issues
Is there any way to stop or remove haunted lands?
Sanctify to remove
Vitalize to change to forest
Burn for fun (and burnt forest -> forest)

Sanctify to remove, Vitalize to change to forest, Burn for fun (and burnt forest -> forest)

Really? Wow! That's good to know.

I'm sorry if everyone is pestering you on this but since my machine with Orbis has no working disk drive, I'm stuck using my wife's machine which has the new version of FfH which obviously crashes Orbis. Any idea when Orbis will upgrade to the new FfH version?

Orbis is up to date with FfH 0.41a. Check the Welcome to Orbis thread to get the 0.23a version ;)

Orbis is up to date with FfH 0.41a. Check the Welcome to Orbis thread to get the 0.23a version ;)

See this is what happens when my wife cleans out the cache; I lose my log-in to this site and thus miss all the alerts of updates! :mad:

See this is what happens when my wife cleans out the cache; I lose my log-in to this site and thus miss all the alerts of updates! :mad::lol: Tell her not to clean the sessions!

I have something that might not count as a minor request...
I play as the Hippus sometimes, and I hardly ever get level six melee units, but i have plenty of horsemen/horse archers/chariots that are level six. I think someone should make a new unit - an immortal replacement - that upgrades from chariots and horse archers. You might have to raise the level requirements for it - to say, level 7 or 8, but it would be able to fortify, wield weapons, etc. It could be called a Battlemount or Charger... It would be very awesome if someone could do that. :)

He**, I also wanted a Ljolsalfar replacement Immortal that upgrades from archers.

Immortals in general should be upgraded by the strengths of the civ.

I'm playing as Doviello, and have a question about animals.

Can you create dens/lairs with them? I thought at one moment I was given the option "create den" or something like that, with a wolf I captured. Was it an illusion or is it actually possible? If it is, where can you fo that and which animals can create dens?

Is there any special reason why I can't challenge/capture griffons?

It is possible, but only ON neutral territories and on appropriate terrain

Is there a list somewhere of which terrain is needed for each animal? Or can somebody post it here?

Also, I saw there are Griffon and Troll Totems. As Doviello, Griffons I can't attack at all. And Trolls I can attack normally (as if there weren't part of the animal nation, I guess they count as barbarians, then). So, if Trolls aren't "animals", how do you capture one and get the totem? What am I missing here?

I have something that might not count as a minor request...
I play as the Hippus sometimes, and I hardly ever get level six melee units, but i have plenty of horsemen/horse archers/chariots that are level six. I think someone should make a new unit - an immortal replacement - that upgrades from chariots and horse archers. You might have to raise the level requirements for it - to say, level 7 or 8, but it would be able to fortify, wield weapons, etc. It could be called a Battlemount or Charger... It would be very awesome if someone could do that. :)

I'd like to give the Hippus Mounted Immortals too, but ,you see, the problem is that individual units are set to upgrade to various unitclasses, so in order to let the Hippus upgrade their mounted units to Immortals instead of their Melee units you would have to give them UUs both for the mounted units you want to give this ability and for their Champions.

Well, actually there are a few ways you could get around that. You could make it so that the only way to upgrade to an Immortal is through a spell, which could be civ and unitcombat dependent. There are numerous problems with that though. First, the AI probably would have trouble understanding it. Second, in order to not make upgrading a horseman or a knight cost the same you would need to either have a different spell for each unit or pay the cost in python. Most importantly, limiting it to 4 at a time would require a python prereq that would be called way too often and would slow the game way down, at least after Divine Essense was researched.

Another way to handle it would be to take a page from the Mercurians and not have these Immortals be Immortal UUs at all, but seperate unitclasses. That way, all civs could have their Horsemen upgrade to Mounted Immortals, but every civ but the Hippus would just happen to have NONE as their Mounted Immortal UU and the Hippus would have NONE as their Immortal UU. The downside here is that Tolerant/Conquerer trait leaders could get access to the different unitclasses of immortals and thus get a least twice as many immortal units as other leaders. That sounds unbalanced.




Of course, it would be simple to give civs Immortal UUs that don't match the unitcombat of the units from which they upgraded. It may be harder for the Hippus to get melee units up to a high enough level, but it would be worth it if you get a fast, mounted, CRIII immortal.

@ Magister

Couldn't you change the unitclass for immortals for just the Hippus?

Don't the Calabim's Vampires come from Feudalism - not Iron Working? Yet, it seems to work just fine... Is is possible to use some of the python on that to make the Mounted Immortal be a Hippus only unit that is upgradable only through the "Armored Calvary" tech?

Would that work at all?

@ Magister

That last one you said might work, too.

As I said, giving the Hippus an immortal with a different unitclass would work fine, except that Tolerant/Conqueror trait leaders would then have access to both classes of immortals and giving them 8 immortals instead of the 4 everyone else gets seems too strong.

Immortals in general should be upgraded by the strengths of the civ.
I agree. If not else, an UU would be fine.
There are 3 melee tier 4 units anyway, while only 2 mounted, 2 recon (one CoE only) and 2 archers. Immortals can be used by all I think.
Is there a list somewhere of which terrain is needed for each animal? Or can somebody post it here?
I will probably add it to Orbis concepts page.
Also, I saw there are Griffon and Troll Totems. As Doviello, Griffons I can't attack at all. And Trolls I can attack normally (as if there weren't part of the animal nation, I guess they count as barbarians, then). So, if Trolls aren't "animals", how do you capture one and get the totem? What am I missing here?
That is a bug, you are supposed to be able.
Trolls used to spawn for animal civ, but will be barbarians in 0.23b (fits better I think). But they get hidden nationality, so everyone will be able to attack them.
A unit does not need to be an animal to become totem. Griffons, spiders and trolls are beasts. Also, they need to be captured for your civ to be used, so the original civ does not matter

Actually, there is one civ without access to Immortals: The Sheaim. In my version, I made the Consume Soul spell grant Eaters of Dreams the immortal promotion to compensate. It isn't true immortality, but if it was then they wouldn't be able to use Lichdom in my version (where liches also happen to be true immortal units with extra promotions, but are of the same unitclass as archmages so they don't increase the number of possible casters). In some circumstances it can be better than true immortality, as so long as your capital has enough souls to feed upon they can die and come back hundreds of times it one turn instead of just once.


I also think like letting Horsearchers upgrade to Shadow Riders, and making Shadow riders gain the hidden promotion from combat.

@ Magister

Couldn't you change the unitclass for immortals for just the Hippus?

Don't the Calabim's Vampires come from Feudalism - not Iron Working? Yet, it seems to work just fine... Is is possible to use some of the python on that to make the Mounted Immortal be a Hippus only unit that is upgradable only through the "Armored Calvary" tech?

Would that work at all?

FYI vampires are still melee while the Hippus one would be a mounted one while the base is melee...

Okay here is a VERY minor question, so this seems like the place for it:

I'm considering editing my flavorstart file so that the two elf civs have a preference for starting near Yggdrasil, and so the svartalfar have a stronger preference for forests. Is there any reason not to do this from an interal FFH role-playing standpoint? Is Yggdrasil not a elfy kind of thing? Is there some reason the dark elves wouldn't like forests as much as the light elves? I thought they were the same court until the split between the two queens.

The Yggdrasil is very much an elven thing. It is in the Umbrawood (The ancestral home the the Elves) and is placed near the Ljosalfar is The Splintered Court.

FYI vampires are still melee while the Hippus one would be a mounted one while the base is melee...

True, I know that, but it shouldn't be that hard to change the unit class, should it? :confused:

As I said, giving the Hippus an immortal with a different unitclass would work fine, except that Tolerant/Conqueror trait leaders would then have access to both classes of immortals and giving them 8 immortals instead of the 4 everyone else gets seems too strong.

You might be able to adapt it so that the Mounted Immortal counts toward the regular amount of immortals you get. For Example: I played one game as Decius in FF and finished off a civ with a Phalanx replacement. When I made one of my phalanx, I discovered that the Windsword counted toward the total # of Phalanxes I could get, so I couldn't get four of both. Bit of a bummer, really, because the Windswords pwn...

You might be able to adapt it so that the Mounted Immortal counts toward the regular amount of immortals you get. For Example: I played one game as Decius in FF and finished off a civ with a Phalanx replacement. When I made one of my phalanx, I discovered that the Windsword counted toward the total # of Phalanxes I could get, so I couldn't get four of both. Bit of a bummer, really, because the Windswords pwn...

That is specifically because Windswords and Phalanxes are of the same unitclass, and the world/national unit limits are all set on a unitclass basis. If Mounted Immortals and normal Immortals were of the same unitclass there would be no problem with the Tolerant trait, but then the Hippus would need UUs of most of the mounted and Melee lines so as to let their mounted units upgrade to immortals instead of the melee units. Making the normal mounted units upgrade to unitcombat_immortal would mean that every civ could upgrade horsemen to Immortals, and that is not what they wanted.

That is specifically because Windswords and Phalanxes are of the same unitclass, and the world/national unit limits are all set on a unitclass basis. If Mounted Immortals and normal Immortals were of the same unitclass there would be no problem with the Tolerant trait, but then the Hippus would need UUs of most of the mounted and Melee lines so as to let their mounted units upgrade to immortals instead of the melee units. Making the normal mounted units upgrade to unitcombat_immortal would mean that every civ could upgrade horsemen to Immortals, and that is not what they wanted.

Da**. That kind of sucks.

Is there any way we can get around this?

Are you sure that you can't make a restriction count for two different unitclasses?

That is a bug, you are supposed to be able.
Trolls used to spawn for animal civ, but will be barbarians in 0.23b (fits better I think). But they get hidden nationality, so everyone will be able to attack them.
A unit does not need to be an animal to become totem. Griffons, spiders and trolls are beasts. Also, they need to be captured for your civ to be used, so the original civ does not matter

That makes sense. Thanks for the reply.

Good thing if you add that lair list in the pedia. While you are at it, remember to remove the entry for "troll totem". Keep up the good work!

Good thing if you add that lair list in the pedia. While you are at it, remember to remove the entry for "troll totem". Keep up the good work!

Why should I? Troll Totem stays.
Currently (0.23b), the following totems are possible:

Animal units, Animal Civilization, Animal tier (allows replacement by Beast Tier):

Wolf
Lion
Bear
Tiger
Gorilla

Animal units, Animal Civilization, Beast tier (can be acquired to replace animal tier):

Elephant
Mammoth (never seen one to be honest, must check the spawning - if you did, tell me)
Polar bear

Beast units (require subdue beast to be totemized and provoked), Animal Civilization, Beast tier:

Griffon
Giant Spider

Beast units, Orc Civilization, Beast tier:

Troll (hidden nationality, attacks everything except barbarian orcs and hill giants)


Edit:
I have changed how the totems are acquired. So, summon tiger spell would not cause CtD any more. Should I bring it back then?
I think of removing Battering Ram. With new mechanics it would not break game any more, but I feel it is not needed and instead of separate unit (that has nice model but that is all), everything can be made by a promotion, that can be purchased or gained in city by every melee unit. Doviello would still be able to get it in any forest.

So, what are your thoughts?

Ah, I didn't know Trolls were "beast", so I thought you couldn't subdue them.

I guess it's a good idea to bring back the "summon tiger" spell, but I don't have enough experience with Orbis to know if it affects somehow differently the gameplay to consider leaving it out.

Summon tiger spell was removed for two reasons.

One was CtD caused by AI adopting tigers and trying to move it.

Second one was more of balance reasons - it was free tiger totem for every unit that had subdue animal.

First is not valid any more, but second one is.

Is a 'free tiger totem' really that powerful when you need level 2 to reach it anyway?

Well there's still the Doviello, but..

Well, level 2 is easily attainable with hunting lodges, training yards, archery range, whatever and stuff...

Summon tiger spell was removed for two reasons.

One was CtD caused by AI adopting tigers and trying to move it.

Second one was more of balance reasons - it was free tiger totem for every unit that had subdue animal.

First is not valid any more, but second one is.

What about making it Summon Panther? The model is already available and panther exist in the FfH universe (see Age of Ice) Allow it to make a cage, but, as it's a sacred animal to FoL, it can't be used as a totem. Functionally it can have exactly the same stats as a Tiger.

What about making it Summon Panther? The model is already available and panther exist in the FfH universe (see Age of Ice) Allow it to make a cage, but, as it's a sacred animal to FoL, it can't be used as a totem. Functionally it can have exactly the same stats as a Tiger.

I like that idea... :rockon: I like panthers...

This is probably a dumb question but I can't figure out why the Malakim won't accept vassalization in my current game. Our relations are extremely good, they only have 1 city to my huge numbers, and they aren't currently vassalized. The reason they give for not accepting is "sorry, it's out of our hands.". What does that mean? As far as I can tell they are not in a defensive pact or vassal relationship with anyone else.

Don't you have turned on No Vassal States by mistake? If it's not that, maybe you're npt powerful enough? Can you vassalize someone else?

I don't believe no vassalization is turned on since another civ is somebody else's vassal. Not being powerful enough is usually why people turn down vassalization for me but in that case their reason is generally "We're doing fine on our own". I've never seen "it's out of our hands" before. I'll try building up my military some more but I thought perhaps somebody knew what that specific message meant.

Does Patch C keep 5 liches, 5 goblins or 5 minotaurs spawning in areas that I can see? I mean come on! Spawning nastys is one thing, but spawning them right next to one of my units is another! :eek:

I do keep getting barbarian spawns I can't figure out either, unless they're spawning in my territory. Groups of 5 barbarian galleys keep pillaging my fishing boats around an island and I own the whole thing.

I do keep getting barbarian spawns I can't figure out either, unless they're spawning in my territory. Groups of 5 barbarian galleys keep pillaging my fishing boats around an island and I own the whole thing.

I agree. Plus, shouldn't there be a gradient to this sort of thing? Few barbs, then more and then OMIGODITSTHEHORDE! Plus, that has been a tactic since almost Day 1 in Civ: you need to expand or at least keep the Fog of War to a minimum or the barbs will spawn. As it stands right now, they spawn 5 liches right next to units if full sight of God and Radar. :wallbash:

Plus, I don't think I get to finish my game as Auric Ascended due to graphics, but I have an odd question. I had a big stack of troops getting ready to invade Svartalfar territory (which I was in at the time) when I had to leave the computer while it was running the AI turn. Somehow the Elves managed to push all of the stack back two squares into a city in my territory, except for all the assassins I had in the stack. Plus, the elves moved some units into that square but didn't affect the assassins. What gives?

AgentTBC: Is it possible they are already vassalized to someone else? Or have someone vassalized to them?

AgentTBC: Is it possible they are already vassalized to someone else? Or have someone vassalized to them?

Not so far as I can tell. Oh well.

This is probably a dumb question but I can't figure out why the Malakim won't accept vassalization in my current game. Our relations are extremely good, they only have 1 city to my huge numbers, and they aren't currently vassalized. The reason they give for not accepting is "sorry, it's out of our hands.". What does that mean? As far as I can tell they are not in a defensive pact or vassal relationship with anyone else.
First of all, this question belongs to bug thread I think. But anyway, what Xienwolf said. Without save it is hard to guess.

@Arkham
Do barbarian units spawn in claimed area without any lairs? What civ do they belong to (animals, orcs and demons work differently).

Holy Crap... All the following before turn 100, most before turn 50.

Game 1 = Killed a skeleton which spawned a wraith.:eek: Wraith takes capital.
Result = Prevent Demonic Hoard option now elected: barring demons from barbarian faction. Like the idea but a STR 9 wraith? Ouch.

Game 2 = SWARMS of animals. Now that animals roam within your territory, growth and development significantly hindered.
Result = Granted I generally play with Wild Lands option on, i think I have to turn it off.

Game 3 = 2 Ira spawn and take my capital.
Result = I think I had Demonic Hoard option off but can't recall. STR 9 or was it 12 with water walking!

Game 4 = 4 Griffins destroy my first settlement... Wings of Doom!

Game 5 = 1 Minotaur spawns near my first settlement (lightly defended)... FEAR! Fortunately he makes way for my capital pillaging along the way. 9 warriors ready at the palisade, 2 survived. However, the following round... 4 Griffins appear on the mountain top just out side my first settlement and... No love with 0.23.

I generally play Amurite on Emperor, which is some what of a challenge and I occasionally get a poor start. However, nothing like this.

Any plans of toning it down? How do I prevent/limit the Minotaur and Griffins? Other then no animals and no barbarians.

P.S. Love the mod, even after having my a$$ handed to me 5 games in a row.

Holy Crap... All the following before turn 100, most before turn 50.

I generally play Amurite on Emperor, which is some what of a challenge and I occasionally get a poor start. However, nothing like this.

Any plans of toning it down? How do I prevent/limit the Minotaur and Griffins? Other then no animals and no barbarians.

P.S. Love the mod, even after having my a$$ handed to me 5 games in a row.

I normally play on Prince or Noble and I got pretty much the same thing. One game it was 5 Goblins, 2 turns later 5 minotaurs and 2 turns after that 5 Iras. I was toast.

medusa001: Did you patch to 0.23b? The barbarian spawns are toned way down in b. It sounds like you're playing 0.23a to me.

Maybe not so minor request on my part: How do you adjust what the AI prioritizes early on? The 3 food per pop thing is a good idea but the AI for a bunch of civs needs to be adjusted for it. The Bannor, for example, are constantly ending up with one tiny city (pop 3!) 200 turns into the game because they don't know they need to research agriculture and build farms right away. They keep building towns which is great, except the 2 food from the grassland tiles doesn't support pop growth. They even build towns on food resources they don't have the tech for.

For example, in my current game the Bannor got what should be an awesome location. They are on a river at the coast with some deer in their radius. River and grasslands as far as they eye can see with all kinds of juicy resources. Freakin' YGGDRASIL is about 5 hexes away. And it's turn 200 and they have one pop 3 city because they spammed out towns right at the start, including on the deer hex, and never grew their initial city over pop 3 which obviously crippled their research.

Same thing with the Sheim. Built a bunch of towns on their grassland river tiles and didn't have the food to grow their initial city. They built a quarry on their pig resource because they don't have animal husbandry: They actually managed to get up to pop 6, though, because their deer resource wasn't on the river so they didn't build a town on it and managed to research hunting and put a camp down. Yay, a pop 6 city at turn 200!

There must be a way to tell the AI to prioritize food at almost all costs with their first city?

I remember an idea from a while ago that could be resurrected and discussed... it is a way to get early coast raids like the vikings. The way the mechanics would work is that early units would be able to cast a boat (a viking Karve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karve)) that would be very weak (like str 1-2) that they could use to travel the coast to land and raid and pillage other civs. It would require the fishing tech and raiders trait and must be cast in the forest (but doesn't consume the forest). The karves are destroyed when the casting unit leaves the boat. With the early game so focused on other important things, I think having a castable boat to carry units to conduct raids would add a lot to the "raiders" feel. Anything to enhance the sea is sorely needed in this game IMO. To be more fair to non raider trait leaders and civs, they could build a karve instead of casting and have it cost like 20 hammers. The built karves would also not be destroyed when the unit leaves and could be upgraded to other boats. They would also benefit by having other units as cargo (except maybe no settlers) where the castable ones would only carry the caster.

Another minor request - to look at the enhanced coastal cities changes and see if anything would fit in - for example some of the civics changes like getting food from trade routes is a nice change...

@Arkham
Do barbarian units spawn in claimed area without any lairs? What civ do they belong to (animals, orcs and demons work differently).

Well the goblins that spawned had to be orcs. I had turned off the Demonic Horde so it couldn't be them...but you know, I just realized I had turned DH off in the custom game screen and I still got 5 liches show up! Hmmmm, weird.

Well I've patched to C and so far in my new game not so bad.

Still hope someday there will be a gradient for sea monsters from minor to nasty. Like the 'new' kraken!

Oh, any chance you'll steal that code so you can have either all minor leaders (w/random) or none that was posted in the Enhanced Leader thread? I like it!

Well the goblins that spawned had to be orcs.
Not really. I have blockd weird combos in .23 b, so 23a was a strange place.

Well I've patched to C and so far in my new game not so bad.
Still hope someday there will be a gradient for sea monsters from minor to nasty. Like the 'new' kraken!
I want to, but animals do not use tech prerequirements so it is hard to set when they spawn. Will have to dig in the code or wait for Xienwolf to change that. BUt it is planned, trust me.
Oh, any chance you'll steal that code so you can have either all minor leaders (w/random) or none that was posted in the Enhanced Leader thread? I like it!
Thanks for pointing this out, I just spent 2 hours trying to find where to block it...
Added the blocking part. Is there a real demand for enabling all of them?

Minor question: How exactly does the "guardsman" promotion work? It says it protects against marksman units attacking the stack but the Balseraph Taskmasters are still picking off my mages while a units or units with guardsman are present in the stack. Is it a % chance? Maybe something else is required as well? Or is it buggy?

Very minor request:

Change the Clan of ember pagan temple so it gives +1 XP to all land units instead of +2 to disciple. Seems to me more appropriate. I actually changed my setup to do just that and it seems just right. You do not notice the +1 at first but your units get promoted earlier.

I picture that as a kind of initiation rite involving fire and you have to go through it to be real Clan.

I think the Illians need a religion civic. I mean, come on, they're not neutral.

Any chance of killing off Loki's voice or only making it occur one per game session?

Any chance of killing off Loki's voice or only making it occur one per game session?

CONCUR! I hate having to listen to that whiny, "Here I am!" every frakkin' turn! :mad:

I think the Illians need a religion civic. I mean, come on, they're not neutral.

Well here is what I said over on the Leaders Enhanced thread:

...Plus, in light of the change in leaders soon in North Korea, you'd think that perhaps the Risen Emperor and Auric would be able to use a Great Prophet to create a unique building to glorify themselves in that disturbing "Dear Leader" sort of way. Plus, I do think that the Illians and the Scions need a 'religion' or more properly a cult of personality (CoP) that would enable them to build religious buildings. I don't see either of them going for 'humanism' like the Mechanos and Grigori would.

This CoP would spread mostly in their own borders but probably would have a lesser chance of ever spreading in non-Illian/Scions cities. Perhaps, if it could be coded, the % chance of CoP spreading in non-Illian/Scions cities would change dependent on their victory score. I mean if the Illians are running rampant over creation, you'd think a lot of people would start to believe his hype.