Now, I'm going to start by saying that I don't want Rhye to add/remove/replace any civilization and this is going to be my personal project. If everyone can agree to that, then there's something I need help with. Don't worry, it's nothing technical. Anyone can throw around ideas and see how far they'll go.

I'm trying to replace the Viking civilization with the Swedish in the original Rhye's and Fall map/mod. Currently I've re-located their capital area (from Nidaros [x=61,y=61] to Stockholm [x=63,y=58]), gave them a few more starting techs, new UU and UB (which were practically taken from RFCE and fiddled around with a little), changed their button, flag, national color and adjectives and names. Right now, they're "Swedimised Vikings" but not actual Swedish yet. Their spawn zone, spawn date, research rates, national interests, settler maps, UPs and UHVs are still under construction and this time around, I decided to start working on the UHVs.

Now, I could use the UHVs people already gathered in the RFCE project but the Sweden in that project focuses on the governance of so little land while in the original RFC map it can pretty easily encompass whole of Scandinavia so the size scale is a little different between the two projects. I'm not sure if customizing some files will even be needed (.dll) but for the moment next up is going to be working around with the Python files and thinking of new UHVs for the soon-to-be-Swedish nordmen. I can't focus on conquest as much as people working with RFCE can so I need some new ideas to come about.

Shortly speaking, I need good suggestions as to what the historical Swedes should have as UHVs and perhaps also something to back that up with.


What I've come up with so far is that their first UHV should focus on conquest of Scandinavian lands, Finland and the Baltics, but that's it. Should they have resource-oriented second UHV or have to control all sea tiles in the East Sea? Don't lose a city before a certain date? Build a certain wonder? Make Stockholm #1 city in Europe/World in culture, population, production?

Ideas, people! Come forth with what you have!


EDIT:
The burnout faded away. I'm working on this project again.

How about:

Not lose a city to Russia before 1800-something.
Control Finland and Scandinavia, excluding Denmark and Iceland.
Control northern Germany by 1700.
Don't know if it's possible but; have larger land and armies than Russia by 1800.
Control every sea tile in the Baltic sea, including the kattegatt straight.
Create one colony in Africa and one colony in the Caribbean.

I'm out of ideas :p

How about:

Not lose a city to Russia before 1800-something.
Control Finland and Scandinavia, excluding Denmark and Iceland.
Control northern Germany by 1700.
Don't know if it's possible but; have larger land and armies than Russia by 1800.
Control every sea tile in the Baltic sea, including the kattegatt straight.
Create one colony in Africa and one colony in the Caribbean.

I'm out of ideas :p

Maybe the "first city in America" UHV could be left unchanged?
Do you know if any resource or building-related UHV would be okay?

Historically they settled some of Russia/Ukraine.

They made a lot of money controlling the fur trade with the Byzantines and Arabs.

So maybe 5 fur resources or control russia would do?

Historically the Swedes had a colony in America under Gustav Vasa I think. Maybe it should just be ''create a colony in the US before 1650?''
Seems more rational for a 1300ish spawn date.

Historically they settled some of Russia/Ukraine.

They made a lot of money controlling the fur trade with the Byzantines and Arabs.

So maybe 5 fur resources or control russia would do?

Wouldn't that be a little too harsh? 5 fur resources would mean both controlling the Vologda area in Russia and the coast areas in eastern Canada. If the resource requirement would be lowered to 3, then the requirements could be met either throiugh conquest or colonization, opening a variety of ways to get the job done.

Maybe "Control the land between the Baltic and Black Sea"? That would lead to a conflict with the Rus and Germans eventually.

Wouldn't that be a little too harsh? 5 fur resources would mean both controlling the Vologda area in Russia and the coast areas in eastern Canada. If the resource requirement would be lowered to 3, then the requirements could be met either throiugh conquest or colonization, opening a variety of ways to get the job done.

Maybe "Control the land between the Baltic and Black Sea"? That would lead to a conflict with the Rus and Germans eventually.You are probably right about all that fur. I think the most important aspect of a Swedish UHV should be that it somehow reflects that Swedens interests was more to the east, as oppposed to other european powers.

When is the spawn date?

Speaking of UHVs, is there an easy way to change a UHV? I have made a scenario (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=206110&d=1236480650) with playable byzantines 610AD, and I can change the text of the UHVs in the game, but it is not reflected in the UHV counter. My byzantine civ is built on the Greek civ so the counter starts greyed out, any ideas?

You are probably right about all that fur. I think the most important aspect of a Swedish UHV should be that it somehow reflects that Swedens interests was more to the east, as oppposed to other european powers.

When is the spawn date?

Speaking of UHVs, is there an easy way to change a UHV? I have made a scenario (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=206110&d=1236480650) with playable byzantines 610AD, and I can change the text of the UHVs in the game, but it is not reflected in the UHV counter. My byzantine civ is built on the Greek civ so the counter starts greyed out, any ideas?
I haven't yet looked up on the actual UHV remaking process but it's all Python. I'm a starter when it comes to that stuff but there's nothing what looking through the RFC and RFCE Python files won't fix.

As for the spawn date, I'm not sure yet. I was thinking 800-900 AD because by 1050 the Swedes had already become a Christian nation and set foot on Finnish soil so they need some time to settle the Swedish core area and work the surrounding area. The 500-800 timeline will be barbarian Vikings' time to shine. :p


Below: Swedish Russia. That resulted from a pregenerated 3000 BC American start. (See map.)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6870/civ4screenshot0153.jpg

At this moment they still start at 545 (600) AD and their spawn area still encompasses whole of Scandinavia, including Denmark. I figured that if Denmark would be considered a necessary part of the Empire for them in their conquest-natured UHV, they should have to spawn before Germany does so they have a chance to settle Copenhagen before the Germans do. If they are to spawn only after the Germans, then their UHV area might as well exclude that tip of land altogether.

This is a really good project, it would replace the silly Vikings. I'll help out with any code you need.

- Control the Scandinavia/Baltic region in X AD
- Control two colonies in the Americas and two colonies in Africa by Y AD (maybe 1650 since this is historical)
- Have the largest army in Northern Europe (Sweden, Germany, Russia) in Z AD

- Control the Scandinavia/Baltic region in X AD
- Control two colonies in the Americas and two colonies in Africa by Y AD (maybe 1650 since this is historical)
- Have the largest army in Northern Europe (Sweden, Germany, Russia) in Z AD

Those are actually very good suggestions. They cover a lot of ground on their own.
I will look a little on to history and see what the proper dates should be. Seeing Battle of Poltawa (turning point in Swedish history) occurred in 1709, either 1700 or 1750 might be good time to mark the final UHV to be completed.

What areas do you think should be included in the first UHV? Finland, Sweden and current Norway are pretty mandatory but what about East European countries (Estonia, Lithuenia, Ukraine, Latvia) and Denmark? While they are resource-wise rather insignificant, they were certainly in historical Sweden's interests. However, one "Control Empire's core area" UHV is enough. Though the way it is now, Russia isn't quite the enemy it really was.

However, thank you for the offer. :) I'll try to figure out the actual spawn and UHV dates over this week.

Maybe they should control all cities within a rectangle described as follows:
North side runs through Narvik
South side runs through Copenhagen
West side runs through Stavanger
East side runs through Saint Petersburg

If that is too easy, push the line further east so am aggressive war with Russia is necessary. That is difficult in and of itself due to General Winter.

1. and 3. are because Sweden sought regional hegemony. They dominated through land armies, not the navies of their Viking ancestors. 1. is based on their conquest and colonisation of the area around Scandinavia, including Finland and the Baltic states.

2. reflects Swedish colonisation. There should be few technical problems with this, as they will have naval access through the North Sea and Norwegian Sea to the Atlantic Ocean.

Maybe they should control all cities within a rectangle described as follows:
North side runs through Narvik
South side runs through Copenhagen
West side runs through Stavanger
East side runs through Saint Petersburg

If that is too easy, push the line further east so am aggressive war with Russia is necessary. That is difficult in and of itself due to General Winter.

Not bad thinking. I'll try to "paint" the spawn and UHV areas as described and upload them here.
Naturally, Swedish spawn map would be smaller. I probably will downize it to include just Central and Southern Sweden, the core area. It's not like Russian or American spawn area is as big as one would imagine at first.

2. reflects Swedish colonisation. There should be few technical problems with this, as they will have naval access through the North Sea and Norwegian Sea to the Atlantic Ocean.

I wouldn't be too afraid of that. Out of the many times I've done an auto-start as America (both 3000 BC and 600 AD), the Nordmen have hardly managed to get any colonization done. We're speaking about seeing no Viking settlements outside of Scandinavia in 30 or so starts. Even if they got around to getting the prerequired technologies in time, they'd still have the British Isles and the English Channel to pass through. They're not all that different from the Vikings, they're both equally far away from Atlantic access.

I like this idea and just want to voice my enthusiasm for the project. I remember reading a biography of Peter the Great a few years ago and realizing that Sweden was on the path to becoming the major power in the region until they lost their war with Muskovy and their King got stuck in the Ottoman Empire for a decade while his centralization of power was picked apart by aristocrats back home. Interesting stuff...

I like this idea and just want to voice my enthusiasm for the project. I remember reading a biography of Peter the Great a few years ago and realizing that Sweden was on the path to becoming the major power in the region until they lost their war with Muskovy and their King got stuck in the Ottoman Empire for a decade while his centralization of power was picked apart by aristocrats back home. Interesting stuff...

Glad to hear others approve of the project as well. :p If more people are willing to participate, those with proficient Python skills are more than welcome to join in.

Update on how this project is coming along: I experimented with adding new UHVs for the Swedish populace. I'm following Panopticon's suggestions and so far I'm only missing the know-how on how the last UHV should be coded.

Is anyone still interested in this?

Try

if (iGameTurn == i1700AD):
if (pVikings.getNumUnits() >= pGermany.getNumUnits()):
if(pVikings.getNumUnits() >= pRussia.getNumUnits()):
self.setGoal(iVikings, 2, 1)
else:
self.setGoal(iVikings, 2, 0)
else:
self.setGoal(iVikings, 2, 0)

Didn't work. I got the automatic "You have been defeated!" Python error message after trying that one. I might have done it wrong so I'll try it again soon enough.

New topic in the meantime... what about the Swedish UP? I could copy RFCE's but I don't want "my" project to be just meeting odds and ends of other people's work.

How about "Can draft military units after the discovery of Gunpowder"? To my knowledge, the form of military which can be called a national army had been around in the Swedish Empire longer than since the discovery of Nationalism and would serve our purposes well. Swedish core area has a lot of food but not so much production - why not put it to use?

Only problem this possibly would bring along is that right now my UB for the Swedes is the same it is in RFCE; replacement for Barracks which adds +25 production bonus for land units. I was thinking this could be replaced with additional Formation or Combat 1 bonus for all new units built in the city, to keep them on par with the Russian UU (which replaces Cuirassier in my game currently). Karolins differ from original Musketmen with an extra strength point right now, which might be another thing I have to keep an eye on. Throwing in a free Combat 1 there would potentially leave the political map in a very different shape than it really turned out to be.

Any ideas, opinions, suggestions, criticism?

EDIT:
I replaced the additional strength point for the Karolins with a free Combat 1 promotion. In my eyes this will increase the Karolin's tactical value and also reflect the military formation aspect better than the actual Formation promotion. Even if you wanted the actual Formation so bad, you wouldn't need more than Barracks and Vassalage or Theocracy to get it this way. :p I'll roll a few American starts during the week to see how what effects it will leave in the hands of AI, although I don't expect to see much change in Ragnar's behaviour (another thing in progress - new leaders).

Of course, this means the Soldier Tennant must either provide the +25 land unit :hammers: bonus or be replaced with another building.

Immune to General Winter? It's functional, but not very interesting.

True, while Medic I promotion to all units would be just too universal. :p Perhaps we're looking at it the wrong way. What area should their UP even cover? Internal policies, military, foreign politics, growth, science? Probably military, but I'll leave that up for debate for now and focus on the UHV instead in the meantime.

Right now, I'm on the process of making this UHV list for Sweden to work. I'm still unsure of what should be the third condition but here it is anyway:

- Control the Scandinavia/Baltic region in 1500 AD
- Control two colonies in the Americas and two colonies in Africa by 1650 AD
- Third condition

Now, we have a selection of UHVs to pick from.

- Don't lose a city to Germany or Russia before 1700 AD (boring, I know)
- Control the largest army in North Europe in 1700/1750 AD
- Control Ukraine in 1750 AD
- Control X Luxury resources in 1750 AD

Both the 'Never lose a city' and 'Control the largest army' would make sense but it's not quite clear which was the cause and which was the result. Both were very important for Sweden of those days. We might throw in 'Vassalize Russia or occupy Moscow at X' but I don't know, I want to create a project that's fun to play.

I'll consider the Luxury condition for now, eyeing the world map to see how it would work in practice. Below is a screenshot of the area the first UHV would cover anyhow, and the second one would simply include all of the Americas and Africa.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1407/civ4screenshot0303.jpg

For now the only hard part I see about the first UHV condition would be to occupy the Baltic regions before either Russia or Germany gets around to doing it (since actual Denmark is usually without a city).

Pay no mind to the additional resources on the map. :p My RFC is full of modifications.


If you have ideas or suggestions regarding improvement, feel free to voice them here.

IMPORTANT NOTICE REGARDING THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROJECT.

I have put this project on-hold indefinitely due to experiencing a Civilization burnout. I'm going to stop going to this site as well.

Farewell CivFanatics. It was fun while it lasted.

whats a civilization burnout?

That is unfortunate.

I intend to do work on this project, using the files that Cethegus sent me.

I'm back, sort of. If you've made progress on the project, Panopticon, could you share the results with me? I can continue making it happen again.

Anyway, I have some news. I did a test run on Sweden on 600 AD start (600 AD) and I think 1500 AD is far too soon for the first UHV requirement. My Python code stated that I needed to have merely 1 city in Norway, Denmark, Finland and the Baltic countries. I started the game off by settling Copenhagen, Stockholm and Luleå (wonderful production site) and working things up from there. I got Calendar in 1280, Gunpowder between the 14th and 15th centuries and after quickly churning out a few Karolins, I DOW'd on Russia and took St. Petersburg (which barely was on my code's "Finland" zone) and settled Reval (Tallinn) in 1490. Come 1500, I had completed the first UHV requirement.

I'm still in the middle of the test run. I have to see if the other parts of the code (like the one Panopticon provided me with) work and if there's some more things that need changing. The .dll files need to be altered somewhat so Sweden doesn't get hammered with unstability in the 15th century and forwards. Also, I realized some resources I put on the map were too much.

In short, I think the first UHV needs to be rethought. Denmark and Norway can be scrapped from the land requirement completely since Sweden never got a hold of those areas again after the fall of the Kalmar Union anyway. I propose that the largest army and regional hegemony requirements would both be postponed until 1750 AD and the land area would range from Finland and the Baltics to Ukraine (with having to control 3-4 cities). Horizontally this would range from the Baltic Horses to Kiev's Horses and vertically from Kiev's Pigs to 1 tile below Finland's Deer. (x=65,y=50, x=71,y=61)


http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6925/civ4screenshot0425.jpg

1. Found two colonies in Africa and North America by 1650 AD / Control X cities
2. Control a "buffer nation" between Sweden and Russia in 1750 AD
3. Control the largest army in North Europe in 1750 AD (I think this needs to change. Control X Luxury resources would open more options)

Sound good? The test-run was on Monarch and I used an optimal tech route.

I've done absolutely no work on the project - I thought it would be a long-term thing and you had gone forever :( . Welcome back.

Panopticon: Can I ask you to provide me a Python code to disable the innate Viking UP and replace it with a conscriptional UP? I'll see through how well it would work ASAP.

Update news on the project: No big change has happened. I added in most of the info I need to add Gustavus Adolphus in the game - all that's still missing is his diplo talk, some python code and more polished leaderhead graphics. Currently I'm using The Capo's Gustav:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11295

Sadly there's nowhere near as many Swedish leaderheads as there are different versions of Hitler. Wonder why. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think after the next 2-3 weeks my schedule will allow me to work on this project again.

After the Swedish secession from the Kalmar Union in 1523, the infantry of the Swedish Army consisted of conscripted soldiers and enlisted mercenaries, both of whom would be called up in wartime only. The units were disbanded in peacetime to reduce costs, and only a few garrison units were present in towns and fortresses. This made it impossible to quickly mobilize a trained army. At the same time, land tax exemption (frälse) was given to those who equipped horsemen for cavalry service, according to the Decree of Alsnö. Coastal defence was provided by several skeppslag (literally "ship teams"), a number of farms located in a coastal district that had to furnish both ships and shipmen for service. After the birth of the Swedish Navy in 1522, the system for recruiting shipmen was changed to rely on forced conscription.

Whether observed at a historical or a gameplay standpoint, I think a conscriptional UP would be only fitting for them.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_allotment_system

The most practical implementation seems to be
Power of the Draft/Power of the Allotment: Can always draft units as if Nationhood were an active civic.

It looks to me as if you'd need to modify the DLL. I don't know if you had this in mind. The easiest way would be to allow the Swedes to spawn with Nationhood as the active civic, like the Egyptians and HR/Slavery, and that could be done quite easily indeed, but it does require that DLL modification - so it's not a purely Python job.

If you just want to give Sweden Nationalism from the start, you can do that in the WorldBuilderSave (I think). In you open the WBS 3000 BC start for RFC, you'll see that the Egypt team is just given its civic possibilities there. We gave the Ottomans the "power of the draft" in RFCEurope via the DLL, so you could look at that code if you want to. 3Miro coded that section, so I'm not sure of the details.

If you just want to give Sweden Nationalism from the start, you can do that in the WorldBuilderSave (I think). In you open the WBS 3000 BC start for RFC, you'll see that the Egypt team is just given its civic possibilities there. We gave the Ottomans the "power of the draft" in RFCEurope via the DLL, so you could look at that code if you want to. 3Miro coded that section, so I'm not sure of the details.

If one just changes the WBS file, Sweden begins with Nationhood, but the civic is reverted to Tribalism at the beginning of the next turn. That is what happened to me when I tried it between my last two posts. The DLL mod is necessary in order to maintain Nationhood after end of turn.

The most practical implementation seems to be
Power of the Draft/Power of the Allotment: Can always draft units as if Nationhood were an active civic.

"Power of Discipline" is what I had in mind (even the Roman UP isn't called as plain as 'The Power of Engineering'). I don't know would Vassalage+Draft or Bureaucracy+Draft combo become too powerful but I don't want to call this a complete project without trying other alternatives. Even if Nationalism would be rendered 90% obsolete with omnipresent drafting, they should still be available to choose their own Legal civics. Vassalage/Bureaucracy was still in effect when the allotment system was around and I don't think Sweden's espionage was so powerful that the +25%:espionage: bonus would be justified. Of course, Nationhood enabled at start would be MUCH easier than restricting the UP to just drafting.

If one just changes the WBS file, Sweden begins with Nationhood, but the civic is reverted to Tribalism at the beginning of the next turn. That is what happened to me when I tried it between my last two posts. The DLL mod is necessary in order to maintain Nationhood after end of turn.

That is unfortunate. :confused: I tried the same before but didn't wait until next turn and noticed the civic itself was grayed out - unlike Representation+MR for Venice or HR+Slavery for Egypt. Once switched to another civic, it couldn't be changed back.

If you just want to give Sweden Nationalism from the start, you can do that in the WorldBuilderSave (I think). In you open the WBS 3000 BC start for RFC, you'll see that the Egypt team is just given its civic possibilities there. We gave the Ottomans the "power of the draft" in RFCEurope via the DLL, so you could look at that code if you want to. 3Miro coded that section, so I'm not sure of the details.

I see. I hoped I wouldn't have to learn "hardcore coding" but looks like I have no choice. I'll look into .dll-coding guides to see what it's like and try to get the gist of it. Unless I've misunderstood, national intresses and behaviour are also located in the .dll files? Those need to be fiddled around sooner or later before this project is complete.


Until an able-handed .dll-user is involved in the project, the changes we can make are only XML and Python-related. I'll try to focus on changing the spawn date and related issues next. I'm still unsure what purpose their UB would play with these recent findings.
Is the Viking UP also located in the .dll files? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.

Update:
The Swedish kings Gustav II Adolf and Charles XII have been added in the game as Swedish leaders and I confirm two UHV conditions to stay final: "Control Finland, the Baltic countries and Ukraine in 1750 AD." This would include owning at least 3 cities in the region while Germany and Russia own none.

The second UHV requirement is "Control the largest army in Europe." Although I would like it to include more nations than just two, it's best to be left to encompass only Russia and Germany, like it does now. Currently the objective can be achieved in three ways.
- simply outproducing your rivals
- forcing them to collapse
- going to war and massacring their units

It's up for the player to decide what way he wants to achieve the UHV: espionage, raw production, UP or war. Originally I wanted to make the UHV encompass more than just two nations, but I'm afraid it would take away freedom from the player and -to be honest- be pretty purposeless. Russia and Germany already have Europe's biggest militaries and other nations are too far away, let the player focus on those two.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6310/civ4screenshot0459.jpg

Some things can't be affected, Gustavus. :) This is all to make you more enjoyable to play.
(That's as intimidating as he gets, too.)

Gustav II Adolf Gallery:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/6972/civ4screenshot0447.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3387/civ4screenshot0453.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9703/civ4screenshot0451.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2582/civ4screenshot0467.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4669/civ4screenshot0464.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/597/civ4screenshot0461.jpg

is already any download available? Couldnt find one

is already any download available? Couldnt find one

Gustav is already part of the game. You can download the latest version at RFC Europe Files tread (first post).

this is a modmod for standard rhye's and fall of civilization, not RFCE.

this is a modmod for standard rhye's and fall of civilization, not RFCE.

Sorry, I get confused sometimes. How is it coming then.

I really like this, I know it's a bit late, but I got a lot of Ideas for this, i don't know much about coding, but I am from Norway :P

add my MSN if you have one: Sofiethebassist@yahoo.com

I'm going to try to learn some compiling skills so I can make progress on things like this.

Here's a proof of concept DLL. Rename the normal RFC DLL file and paste this into the folder. Load up an ordinary game as Vikings, settle a city, use WorldBuilder to increase the city's size to 6, and check out the City Screen. For reference, this modified DLL allows the Vikings to always draft at least one unit.

Here's a proof of concept DLL. Rename the normal RFC DLL file and paste this into the folder. Load up an ordinary game as Vikings, settle a city, use WorldBuilder to increase the city's size to 6, and check out the City Screen. For reference, this modified DLL allows the Vikings to always draft at least one unit.

Wonderful. You even bothered to remove their original UP and consider the pros and cons of uncontrolled drafting. :eek: One per turn's enough, given that they will exist before the dawn of the second millenia.
With that, we have UP, UB, UU and leaders ready, with ready Civilopedia entries. All that's then needed is giving them a new starting date and proper game testing. The last time I tried to make them spawn at 800 AD, the game just spawned the next civs (Arabia, Khmer and many others) at insane places. Basically I got Arabian Scandinavia, Khmer Arabian Peninsula and French Southeast Asia... You get the idea.

I'll give it another go and report here by next week. Very good work, Panopticon! :goodjob:

I bet because he moved the Viking civ's spawn date later then the game looks for the next civ that spawns (Arabia) and put them in the Viking's location, and then the next civ will be put in Arabia's location, and so on. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to fix.

Cethegus, if you give me a rough estimate of when Swedes will spawn, I can customise balance aspects of the DLL to let you play with similar modifiers to a contemporary civ. I'm thinking of applying modifiers similar to those of Russia.

I still think they should spawn at 800 AD (turn 201); 2 turns before the English, 4 turns before the Germans and 6 turns before the Russians (to help get the big picture). Scandinavia's a huge chunk of land and needs time to get it developed and running. Properties similiar to Russia would be excellent.

I'm going to add at least Monotheism, Theology, Construction and Horseback Riding and possibly Civil Service as their new starting technologies, comparing to what Vikings started with. To balance it off a little, I'll give them one less settler than Vikings start with. Nidaros or Oslo could be Independent or Barbarian to keep Norway seperate from Sweden.

Update:
I tried making the Swedes start in 800 AD by modifying Consts.py, AIWars.py, CityNameManager.py and RiseAndFall.py files and even the RFC maps a bit. This, however, resulted in an unsatisfactory result: the game ignored my newly configured starting date and insusted that I still start in 600 AD (instead of 800 AD) in the 600 AD start - with one sole catapult in the Antarctic. I made sure to move the Viking entries from between Maya and Arabia to between France and England and set starting date as 800 AD, but still this happens.

I suspect the order of players' spawning is located in a .dll file. I was succesful to convert the Americans back to their old start date (1733 AD) but that didn't require moving their spawn past other civs like the Swedes do.

Okay, it seems like civilizations have hardcoded, forced start dates that I can't get by. Since I don't want the Swedes to start already in 545/600 AD, I'll have to start learning DLL compiling after a few weeks. Since I, as the project's leader, can't ask anyone else to do this, it'll take me at least until the start of January until I'll get anything out. I plan on releasing a very rough beta version once I get past the current problems (spawns turns giving wrong numbers and catapults spawning on the Antarctic). If nothing else, I'll try to bypass the "4 civilizations must start the 600 AD scenario" rule by making the Ethiopians playable in the 600 AD start and modifying their UHV to consider this new twist. I'm not promising anything, but by modifying the 1st and 3rd UHV they should be a fully playable civ in the 600 AD start.

However, making the Vikings a Swedish civ is the primary course of action. Considering this, I am planning of creating an "alternative" folder in the intended release to include optional UBs and UUs. So far, this will only include the Turkish Janissary and Swedish Karolin changing unique assets (Combat 1 <-> +25% vs. Melee, Archery and Mounted units). More are planned to come as the project develops, however slowly.

EDIT: When the project reaches a enough high point, I'll start distributing the created content in a new thread. So far this remains a brainstorming thread, though.
Thoughts are more than welcome. I can't be the only one who wants a more active and participating Scandinavia.

I can't be the only one who wants a more active and participating Scandinavia.

Sure you isn't. We Norwegians always like a better and stronger scandinavia. And it would be nice if you could have Trondheim spawning as an independent city (the only city in Norway) and adjusting their UHV to have one city in Norway to, or, more exaxtly, on that one tile. The Swedes captured Trondheim in 1658, but gave it back (I personally have no idea of why they did so. This means a war in Scandinavia, and wars in Scandinavia occured pretty often, so it would fit (making it so Trondheim wont convert by culture by any means).

Keep on with this project. I really like the idea.

P.S
When you are finished with the swedes, maybe removing Carthage to give birthplace to the Phoenicans could be an idea. They could get the town northwest of babylon normally independent and have core area at the coastal tiles around there + the normal core area of Carthage.

UHV's could be:
- Control at least 3 Dye by (X) AD
- Have a treasury of (Y) money by (Z) AD
- Bulid 5 lighthouses and 5 coastal forts by (Q) AD

UB:
Coastal Fort (Replaces Harbor)
- +25% Defense in this city
- +1 Trade route
- (Normal harbor bonus)

UU:
Caniite Trader (Replaces Galley)
- Can carry 3 unit
- Starts with Navigation I

And then of course the leader, King Hiram of Tyre.

Hope you like this idea and that it won't be to much.

This is a very good initiative and I can only wish you the best of luck!

My own contribution could be to propose that the "biggest military" UHV could be "have most power" (like in the power graph) instead. That way not only unit strength is measured, right?

Also, I've attached my own modifications to the 600AD map, as for my take on the terrain and resources of Scandinavia. (Svalbard and the Shetlands not in frame.) Note that distribution of resources could be somewhat unbalanced, but I tried to include the main sources I could find through a bit of research. Also note that I removed the Peak that was blocking Trondheim (60, 61). Also, all of Norway is unforested Hills and the eastern slopes of the mountain range (Fjällen) are all Hills. Finland is mostly waterways, Karelia isn't a barren tundra, and there are some Marshes thrown in for good measure. Everything is, of course, covered in Forest. It's not a definitive version, but rather a work in progress. (I've also done the entire Russian domain, with some work on Central Asia and the Far East. But that's another post.)

Oh yeah, and don't forget to add unit spawns (done in the Barbs.py file) to represent the now obsolete Vikings! (Is it possible to add units, preferably Berserkers, on galleys on Barbarian spawns? Could the colonists script in RiseAndFall.py also be used to spawn Barbarians? Or would there have to be a piece of new Python code to accomplish something as a Norse coastal attack?)

You could also spawn historical (Independent) cities like Birka or Nidaros, which will then flip to the Swedish player (with changed names). But also Dublin and Reykjavik. Not to mention Novgorod and Kiev, even if that would give the Russians a flying start at their spawn! (Personally I've considered giving the Russians a post Mongol start at 1480AD - as Muscovy. But that's another modmod entirely.)

I think if the tile between Denmark and southern Sweden be changed to flatland with 2 rivers on the sides it would really help the Vikings. That way not only could they have a river-protected capital but that capital will also be necessary for anyone who wishes to enter the Baltic by sea (If we change their capital to Copenhagen).

You want to connect Denmark to Sweden by land? That seems ahistorical...

I'm going to answer all the recent posts all in one go.

And it would be nice if you could have Trondheim spawning as an independent city (the only city in Norway) and adjusting their UHV to have one city in Norway to, or, more exaxtly, on that one tile.
Hello, this is the first time I've seen you post here. Thanks for voicing out your enthusiasm. :)
I've probably stated it before already but I have been working on adding Nidaros->Trondheim as an independent city in Norway from the start. I'm unsure whether I should represent Bergen or Oslo as Independent cities also but the idea's there. Thank you for your input.

When you are finished with the swedes, maybe removing Carthage to give birthplace to the Phoenicans could be an idea. They could get the town northwest of babylon normally independent and have core area at the coastal tiles around there + the normal core area of Carthage.
Sorry to disappoint you, but as detailed as your suggestion is, I'm already having enough work with Sweden is and I consider Phoenicia better represented in RFC:GW anyway. You'll have to ask someone else to do it if you want to pursue a potentially international Phoenicia.

This is a very good initiative and I can only wish you the best of luck!

My own contribution could be to propose that the "biggest military" UHV could be "have most power" (like in the power graph) instead. That way not only unit strength is measured, right?

Panopticon has to comment on if it's possible to measure two civilizations' Power graphs and enable a UHV condition that way. Currently the code only checks if the player has more units than the opponent. I'm not sure of how the details work in Python, but the 'Largest power graph' condition would be preferred to avoid players building armies full of low-power units. Answering this proposal is outside of my area of expertise, however.

Also, I've attached my own modifications to the 600AD map, as for my take on the terrain and resources of Scandinavia. (Svalbard and the Shetlands not in frame.) Note that distribution of resources could be somewhat unbalanced, but I tried to include the main sources I could find through a bit of research. Also note that I removed the Peak that was blocking Trondheim (60, 61). Also, all of Norway is unforested Hills and the eastern slopes of the mountain range (Fjällen) are all Hills. Finland is mostly waterways, Karelia isn't a barren tundra, and there are some Marshes thrown in for good measure. Everything is, of course, covered in Forest. It's not a definitive version, but rather a work in progress. (I've also done the entire Russian domain, with some work on Central Asia and the Far East. But that's another post.)
First off, you're making the same mistake I did some time ago. Including those extra resources there would make Sweden undisputedly a contender for the top spots in the score list which, as you must understand, threatens the enjoyability of the gameplay and general balance too much. I figured after a little playtesting that even a single Iron resource in Stockholm-Göteborg-Copenhagen triangle provides too much extra production.
Another thing is how everything's covered in trees. The forests could be increased if there's a need to it, but I doubt that's anywhere near a needed amount. Even Russia needs some free space, why wouldn't Sweden.

Setting thise aside though, I like the way you tried to repaint Finland and northern Norway and even added Marshes here and there. I'm going to make Finland's rivers and lakes look more realistic and tone down on the vegetation around there, so I'm going to keep your picture around.

But please, despite turning down most of your ideas keep them coming. You show great enthusiasm.

Oh yeah, and don't forget to add unit spawns (done in the Barbs.py file) to represent the now obsolete Vikings! (Is it possible to add units, preferably Berserkers, on galleys on Barbarian spawns? Could the colonists script in RiseAndFall.py also be used to spawn Barbarians? Or would there have to be a piece of new Python code to accomplish something as a Norse coastal attack?)
I've intended to add such feature. 500 BC - 700 AD will be Vikings' time to shine.
I'm not going to add the Swedes any flipping cities though. The way I see it, city flips are intended only for boosting a weak starting civ or draws the lines of national borders, out of which neither are Sweden's concerns. They should have enough free space to colonize as they see fit and perhaps some cities up for grabs if they feel like war but nothing more.

I think if the tile between Denmark and southern Sweden be changed to flatland with 2 rivers on the sides it would really help the Vikings. That way not only could they have a river-protected capital but that capital will also be necessary for anyone who wishes to enter the Baltic by sea (If we change their capital to Copenhagen).

Nope; not doing that. I don't see a reason why Copenhagen should be represented at all in my modmod or why it should be made another Bosporus but perhaps these people (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=337947) would be interested in that.
If you're going to draw the 'Passageway to the Baltic Sea' card, shouldn't Gibraltar be represented with southern Iberia and Morocca joining hands? Surely you see why it's better left this way.

Well yes, you want to have Europe larger than it is? That seems ahistorical...

Panopticon has to comment on if it's possible to measure two civilizations' Power graphs and enable a UHV condition that way. Currently the code only checks if the player has more units than the opponent. I'm not sure of how the details work in Python, but the 'Largest power graph' condition would be preferred to avoid players building armies full of low-power units. Answering this proposal is outside of my area of expertise, however.

Eh... no comment. Not sure. I think you can check power for each player; it you can, then it's easy enough to compare as many values as you like. It looks like it ought to be CvPlayer.getPower(), but I've never used it or seen its being used.

There is a difference to making a whole section bigger than to actually creating land. Each tile represents a real area in real life, if you connect Denmark to Scandinavia you are altering the way the game will be played out. There is only one square separating Britannia from the European mainland, it would make no sense adding a random square there either.

Well I can see why you object, but I think it'll do more good than harm to at least try it (and tell the swedes to settle there ASAP).

This is a bit OT, but I do tend to come up with a 1001 ideas for mods. (I'll probably start a separate thread some day.) I really miss the way Civ2 handled narrows of diagonal ocean tiles. (In Civ3 and Civ4 land tiles adjoint diagonally are passable, but not coast tiles, as you well know.) My idea is then that the graphics be made more into a :civ2: like coastline, meaning that the diagonal land tiles would be separated by some water and thus impassable. Only with some modern tech (Steel?) and a road would there appear a suspension bridge that also allowed land units to move across the narrow (diagonally from one landmass to another).

I realize it probably would require quite a bit of coding and graphics work to achieve, but it could maybe be something for Civ5? Because scenario map making becomes easier when you don't have to leave a whole tile free to allow shipping through a narrow.

Another idea for Copenhagen would simply be to include the iron age settlement of Roskilde as an independent city on the 600AD map. (It could also spawn on a desired turn.) The city will of course change name to Copenhagen/Köpenhamn/whatever when it is conquered. No need for the Swedish civ to ever found the city - or to acquire it at all for that matter.

Speaking of Scandinavian cities, I personally like to found Gothenburg/Göteborg as an Fort (or Town, as Towns have the same benefits in my RFC), because it makes it possible to sail to Stockholm and the Baltic Sea without ever passing Denmark/Germany. (The Götakanal makes this waterway passable in real life, but it doesn't allow warships or anything like that.)

Gothenburg is, by the way, really a 17th century city. The main settlement on that spot before this time was actually Kungsbacka (Kongahälla) and may have been founded as early as the 10th century. This could be corrected in the citymap.

Stockholm should of course be preceded by Birka (8th century, while Stockholm is 13th century), and the Uranium tile up north should be Uppsala (another important viking settlement, unknown date).

Personally I would just sprinkle the map with Towns where ever historical sites are to be found (and cover everything in Forest, as it once was) so that the map isn't completely devoid of any sign of civilization when the first civs spawn. Even City Ruins on spots of previous settlement create ambiance, I think. (I'm talking about the 600AD map.)

Baldyr, would you happen to have any ideas for a Swedish UB? I was thinking a Soldier Tennant to replace Barracks (as in RFC:E), but I realized that given their UP, a Barracks would be rather useless. Given that I'm at a standstill here, since wanting it to be something they can use well in their timeframe (1300-1600), I can't make it Immigration Center either.

I'm not sure should I edit the last part out later on. :x

Check amra's sweden civ for Warlords. Maybe their "riksbank" could be an idea for swedish UB?

Baldyr, would you happen to have any ideas for a Swedish UB?
Now you've put me on the spot... Hmm... Maybe a 17th century urban fortification (with artillery) called the Skans (Sconce?). It would then be a Castle replacement that doesn't have it's defensive bonus nullified by gunpowder units (or at least not the earliest ones). Or it could have some alternative defensive benefit, like giving defending artillery a combat bonus. Or it could make the city immune to collateral damage. It could become obsolete with Military Science, or Artillery, or something.

There are two well known Skanses where I live:
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skansen_Kronan
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skansen_Lejonet

The Skans sound more like a UP, if when I think about it. Something to do with defensive bonuses when defending your home turf.

By the way, I'd say that the Golden Age of Sweden as a regional super power was 1611 to 1721.

Check amra's sweden civ for Warlords. Maybe their "riksbank" could be an idea for swedish UB?
The Riksbank was founded 1668 and is the worlds first federal reserve. It would make a great World Wonder, if it didn't overlap with the Federal Reserve event. (A generic Federal Reserve National Wonder would also work. It could alleviate inflation, just like the event.)

As a UB I really don't know what building it would be replacing either...

Thinking about it, it seems that the Swedish UP and UB does the same thing (allotment). Indirectly this is also closely associated with the UU (the same unit associated with this system and period). There really could be more diversity as to the civ's flavor.

The Skans is one idea, but thinking further about it, it should really just allow a minimum defense bonus for the city (say 25%). It wouldn't be possible to bombard the city defenses any further, regardless of what sort of siege units are used. I'm not sure how this would be accomplished, though.

Another idea, for the Modern Age, is the Surveillance Center (Security Bureau). Sweden was involved in signals surveillance during the Cold War and since the first of December the military intelligence also monitor all electronic communication passing the Swedish border. This is kinda unique, since it's not done in a covert fashion.

The benefit of the Surveillance Center could be that it reduces war weariness and/or promotes stability. Sweden has a reputation for monitoring its own citizens too...

Another idea for a UB would be the Botanical Garden, in memory of Carl von Linné (1707-1778). This could be a replacement for the Aqueduct. As for the bonus, it should be :science: oriented. The Linnè Garden (http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linn%C3%A9tr%C3%A4dg%C3%A5rden) was actually founded before von Linné was born (in the 1660s, keeping with the same era).

If you're keeping the Soldier Tenant, it could be a Barrack that also gives experience for drafted units. That way the UP and the UB work together, instead of against each other.

The Skanse are a worthy notion with raised defense against bombardment. Because Chichen Itza's defense bonus is the only one that doesn't get obsolete upon the discovery of Gunpowder, greater bombardment bonus would give them a lasting asset. But given that, it makes me wonder how wise a choice that would be. They would become nigh impregnable much like the Russians and given them that much spotlight on the defense, it would seem unavoidable to not give them a "Don't lose city until X date" UHV.

I don't know how receiving experience from buildings upon draft could be implemented, nor am I sure if I want to. That would give them quite an edge against any foe, like the proposed defensive bonuses. And I don't want to go for the uncreative "-50% draft anger modifier" solution either, which would have to be coded by Panopticon too.

I'll take a closer look at these tomorrow, I'm a bit busy right now.

I'm happy to code anything, but you should really try it Cethegus, it's not difficult. As for the UU-UP-UB debate, maybe there should be a building that helps with one of the other UHV goals.

Alright. I'll have more time in a few weeks so I can look into it and spend more time with this project as well. i feel bad for having to be told that, so I'll give it my best.

One thing I noticed when I tried switching the civilization spots in the spawn list - each new spawning civ is equipped with a "slot" which dictates what country's identity they assume. In my game where Sweden was placed between France and England, they assumed the role of France and a bit surprisingly remained a one-city nation while France went Spain on the world and after founding Santander, they conquered South and Central America. Arabia and Turkey collapsed before 1775 AD. Modifying the Python files didn't seem to help so I'll try to solve this problem ASAP when I learn the appropriate skills.

Oh, and the current UHV list is as follows:
1. Control 8 luxury resources by 1650 AD -unconfirmed-
2. Control Finland, the Baltic countries and Ukraine by 1700 AD -confirmed-
3. Control the largest army in Europe in 1750 AD -confirmed-

Conditions #2 and #3 could be moved up one level and followed with a "Be the richest nation in 1800" condition as they historically were, although some 100 years later.

I really like my Botanical Garden idea since it's not a war oriented UB, and Linné is really a hugely influential historical figure. (He'd better be represented as a Great Scientist in the game!) It should have a more modern prerequisite than Engineering though (if it's a Aqueduct replacement). The Botanical Garden is a 16th century concept, by the way, and is associated with the great universities of Europe. The first Botanical Garden in the modern sense of the word was planted in 1540s, and the first one in Sweden was planted in 1665 (the Linné Garden).

I don't know if this brakes some kind of rule though, that all UB:s must be available in the same age than the building they're replacing. Another idea for a mod would, by the way, be to make all UB:s available before the generic building they're replacing. The more I think about this idea, the more I like it. Think of it like the Spanish UU - the Conquistador - a Cuiraisier that becomes available with Astrology.

Talking about mods, the Botanical Garden could also be a National wonder that requires a number of Universities. The effect could be an enhanced Great People rate in the host city. It might overlap with the National Park NW, though.

Another idea for a Swedish UP could be the Power of Compromise. This would have something to do with Civics changes, since Sweden managed to become a modern Western Democracy without a Civil War and without abolishing the Monarchy. (Sure, other countries have constitutional monarchies also, but the so called Swedish Revolution was a really minor incident which swiftly led to sweeping reforms. Sure, some people got killed, but there really wasn't any transition period of "Anarchy".)

Also, in the 80s there was some major compromising being made under the table, when the Government, the Industry and the Labor Unions were all covertly in bed together. Nobody likes an ugly confrontation! :rolleyes:

Just throwing things out there, use whatever you like. Or don't.

You are right about the earlyer UU idea. I always thaught that the norse Berserker came all to late. The berserker roamed before the Maceman came in use, so why you need the same tecnologies to get them, i simply do not undrestand.

Alright. I'll have more time in a few weeks so I can look into it and spend more time with this project as well. i feel bad for having to be told that, so I'll give it my best.

One thing I noticed when I tried switching the civilization spots in the spawn list - each new spawning civ is equipped with a "slot" which dictates what country's identity they assume. In my game where Sweden was placed between France and England, they assumed the role of France and a bit surprisingly remained a one-city nation while France went Spain on the world and after founding Santander, they conquered South and Central America. Arabia and Turkey collapsed before 1775 AD. Modifying the Python files didn't seem to help so I'll try to solve this problem ASAP when I learn the appropriate skills.

Oh, and the current UHV list is as follows:
1. Control 8 luxury resources by 1650 AD -unconfirmed-
2. Control Finland, the Baltic countries and Ukraine by 1700 AD -confirmed-
3. Control the largest army in Europe in 1750 AD -confirmed-

Conditions #2 and #3 could be moved up one level and followed with a "Be the richest nation in 1800" condition as they historically were, although some 100 years later.

No, don't feel bad, it's just more useful to you if you can do DLL editing instantly than if we were working on it at the same time as other things.

I think the France-becoming-Spain effect might be something to do with Python referencing, but I'm not sure where that would happen.

You are right about the earlyer UU idea. I always thaught that the norse Berserker came all to late. The berserker roamed before the Maceman came in use, so why you need the same tecnologies to get them, i simply do not undrestand.
Thats why I've made the Berserker into a Axeman replacement for the Viking. But still, it could be a Maceman replacement that came to play before Civil Service...

I really like my Botanical Garden idea since it's not a war oriented UB, and Linné is really a hugely influential historical figure. (He'd better be represented as a Great Scientist in the game!) It should have a more modern prerequisite than Engineering though (if it's a Aqueduct replacement). The Botanical Garden is a 16th century concept, by the way, and is associated with the great universities of Europe. The first Botanical Garden in the modern sense of the word was planted in 1540s, and the first one in Sweden was planted in 1665 (the Linné Garden).

Well, you're right. RFC should allow the player to experiment different playing styles and expect to get the same results. I'll take the Botanical Garden under my wing for now and see where I can get with it. It would give a reason to bring back the Babylonian Garden's graphics too, but I'll take a look around the downloads database before resorting to that.

About the Botanical Garden; I was thinking about what Baldyr said about the Swedish UB candidates and I came to consider giving the Botanical Garden, if we are to go with it, a more versatile bonus rather than just '+10%:science:' or '+1 Free Scientist'. If you choose to use it so, then of course it will matter not whether it gives a direct science bonus or not.

So, my idea is to make it give +10-25%:commerce: which can be freely divided between the sliders as the player sees fit. If your interests shift from scientific advance to espionage, you can now disperse points to it more effectively. Due to the asset's nature, I'm not sure what amount would be appropriate; +25%:commerce: is quite a large number, even in the poor North. Also, this would encourage the player to create a Cottage Economy, which is far from being Sweden's forte. Another option would be to make the Garden provide, for example, +5:commerce: directly, making it worth a Town in regular game without civic bonuses.

Well if you're suggesting that a player playing Sweden should choose a specialist economy over a cottage economy historically-wise then 1 free scientist sounds just about right. It's not too overpowered too since there are some UBs that give 1 free specialists and the Swedes could use all the help they can get staying in line with the rest of Europe's technologies.

I'm glad that you are considering my suggestion.:)

I'm not so sure about a :commerce: bonus as such, though. A Botanical Garden seems to me more of a drain on assets than something that would generate wealth. (Historically they seem to have been sort of add-ons to Universities, themselves nothing you'd associate with trade or income.)

I'd suggest something like the Roman Forum, i.e. a bonus for generating :gp: (Carl von Linné, again). A free Scientist would do the trick, also. Maybe coupled with the option to hire additional ones.

I'm glad that you are considering my suggestion.:)

I'm not so sure about a :commerce: bonus as such, though. A Botanical Garden seems to me more of a drain on assets than something that would generate wealth. (Historically they seem to have been sort of add-ons to Universities, themselves nothing you'd associate with trade or income.)

I'd suggest something like the Roman Forum, i.e. a bonus for generating :gp: (Carl von Linné, again). A free Scientist would do the trick, also. Maybe coupled with the option to hire additional ones.

Commerce in Civ 4 is just a basic element that generates either gold, science, culture or espionage, based on how it's distributed. In this case, the idea would be that the Garden would generate inspiration, usually in the form of science but not necessarily. I guess it's an idea better taken elsewhere.

So, back to the question of pure science. I suppose +1 Free Scientist (and the ability to hire one additional one) will be enough, since it covers both wanted areas - increased scientific output and tendency to generate more great people (scientists) by default. If the required technology is moved from Mathematics and Masonry to Engineering and Aesthetics (they start with Aesthetics anyway), it should give them a position similiar to industrializing Russia in the 19th century; once they get themselves going, they'll keep progressing at a steady pace.

Very well, it's decided; unless balance issues bring it up later on, the Swedish UB will be Botanical Garden, which the unique benefits of +1 Free Scientist, one additional scientist for hire, +1 culture and changed tech requirement (Engineering).

I tried making the Swedes start in 800 AD by modifying Consts.py, AIWars.py, CityNameManager.py and RiseAndFall.py files and even the RFC maps a bit. This, however, resulted in an unsatisfactory result: the game ignored my newly configured starting date and insusted that I still start in 600 AD (instead of 800 AD) in the 600 AD start - with one sole catapult in the Antarctic. I made sure to move the Viking entries from between Maya and Arabia to between France and England and set starting date as 800 AD, but still this happens.
I'm currently messing around with the Russians and I also get the old starting date with a lone catapult in Antarctica (plot 0, 0) when I try to change the spawn date (in Consts.py). Clearly we're missing something here... Does anybody know how to actually do this?

I was also wondering if part of a solution would be to define the new date like:
i800AD = 201
It didn't help me any with the Russians, though.