Minister of Trade and Technology - The Minister of Trade and Technology is responsible for all trade initiatives and research goals. The Minister also coordinates any plans for spaceship construction.


Right now we have learned Alphabet and are about 16 turns away from Writing. Our current bank balance is 51 gold and at 100% science we have a -3 gpt. At this rate, we have 17 turns before we reach zero, so even if we do nothing we can still obtain this tech in 16 turns.

However....our capital city, Tara, is currently at size 1 and about to grow on this next IBT. Moira, our other city, is producing a Warrior. We have a third city on its way, but I have not concerned myself with it at this point.

Our science is closely tied to our economy. Right now, we have one granary and we are building a barracks. We have 10 units but only 8 are free. A third city will change that number.

In short, I think we can and should continue to keep science at 100% for the forseeable future.

Next techs after Alphabet: Code of Laws and then Philosophy, for we hope to take the Republic slingshot.

We have no one to trade with at this moment. We know nobody else, per F4. Someone mentioned a trade with the English but I don't see how this could be done.

Hold on CB! :) If you're getting your info from the Historical Statistics Department thread, you'll need to go to the last post, always. The current info will ALWAYS be in the last post. The last year of the last Game Session was/is 1830BC.

You might want to take a look at that and update your info. :goodjob:

Hold on CB! :) If you're getting your info from the Historical Statistics Department thread, you'll need to go to the last post, always. The current info will ALWAYS be in the last post. The last year of the last Game Session was/is 1830BC.

You might want to take a look at that and update your info. :goodjob:
Nooo, I made the obvious mistake and went to the tread named: Official Game Saves and got the latest save from there, in Post #2.

In 1830 BC we have learn Writing and are researching Philosophy, 12 turns, 100% science at -3 gpt, with 75 gold. Bankruptcy is not a problem.

After Philosophy I would suggest Code of Laws as our next tech, keeping our sights set on Republic.

Nooo, I made the obvious mistake and went to the tread named: Official Game Saves and got the latest save from there, in Post #2.
Sorry about that. Post three of that thread will be made by DaveShack. He will handle Term #2.

Byzantium is stoopid (and broke) and England can trade Iron Working/85 gold.

Iron Working reveals Iron Ore, which is found on Hills and Mountains. Within four tiles of our current borders are 3 Mountains and 9 visible Hill tiles. Two of the nine Hills have Incense, leaving Seven of Nine (go Jeri Ryan!) as possible Iron deposits. That doesn't sound too good for us having a native source of this precious ore.

England wants Writing and Warrior Code for Iron Working, but we can counter offer just Writing for IW and 39 of 85 gold and they will take it.

The bigger question is do we want it.

Iron Working also unlocks our UU, the Gallic Sword, which hits like a Sword, defends like a Sword but moves like a Horse. So, we win a battle with this bad boy and we kick off our Golden Age.

We must know Iron Working before we can begin Construction, which allow aqueducts and colosseums. The first we need, the second we don't. Construction is generally one of the last techs learned in the Ancient Age; either that or Currency.

Once we learn IW and Iron is connected (which could happen if City 3 is sitting on an Iron Hill) we can no longer build Warriors, which are nice and cheap and can serve as MPs untile we get into Repbulic.

Trade Assessment
No on an Iron Working trade in the near future.

We are far away from England. We both have 3 cities (London, York and a third city West of York across the lake) but we will soon have more. And we can manage them better than Elizabeth can. We have little to fear from them.

We could accidently trigger our Golden Age. We don't want to do that in Despotism with only a handful of cities. Once we have seven cities or so, I think we should begin to make plans to start our Golden Age. I do think we should wait until we are in Republic before we have our Golden Age. I think we should have at least 10 cities or maybe even have gotten the Forbidden Palace popup before we trigger those exceptional twenty turns. But the Golden Age is a public decision and my views here are focused on not abusing that one time gift.

I am very concerned about triggering a Despotic Golden Age. Perhaps too concerned; I cannot tell.

We do not have a likely source of Iron inside our borders.

We could meet other people and get it cheaper. Cheaper doesn't mean less dangerous to our interests; just cheaper to buy. We might even make some cash by selling it to someone rich but stoopid.

Given that England is our Mortal Enemy, trade might be considered out of the question. That is a decision for our citizens to make.

Random Musing
If we wanted to start our Golden Age with the destruction of England, whether soon or in the distant future, we could keep some Gallic Swords garrisoned in our cities until the time was right. Depends on what we plan to do with the High and Mighty Limeys.

Outstanding, CB! That's what I call a report. I definitely agree that triggering a Despotic Golden Age would not be in our best interest. Looks like a close race may be instore for us in Philosophy. But if we're the first, we'll take COL and then research Republic. Thanks.

How does this relate to the what to research next thread in the citizens forum? There the suggestion has been made that we need COL before Philosophy, has the decision already been made to research Philosophy first? No beakers have been invested in Philosophy yet as the previous tech has only just been completed so we can change without loss.

I did this analysis in ignorance of that thread. (Man, that sounds stuffy.)

Which doesn't mean my conclusions are the last word. Plenty of room for discussion.

I would not mind switching to COL.

Any instructions or changes? 4 hours till play session.

I believe Minister CommandoBob was leaning towards COL, Philo, and getting Republic for free. I could be wrong, maybe he'll be at the T/C.

Minister CommandoBob,

We have learned Philosophy, discovered Republic in a technological leap, and research is set to Iron Working but nothing has been invested in it yet. Is that the right choice? What should be next?

Off the top of my head, that sounds good. An excellent work, too! :goodjob:

As you know, I'm afraid of a too early Golden Age from our UU, but there are ways to avoid that.

I will need to check the game for our trading options, if any.

Knowing where the Iron is helps us know where to settle, we don't have to hook it up right away. Now that we have achieved our first goal of getting the sling, we can start back-filling research, since it looks like we have some weak research by the AI. This is a level where you can get minimal research help at best and hardly any at worst. I think we should trade with the Byzantines for Masonry, anything we can get in trade helps. Besides, we want them to help us research, and anything we trade them they won't have to research.

I think that trading Code of Laws to Byzantium for Masonry and all 75 of their gold is a good dea.

The other tribe, Those-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named, we will continue to ignore in trading.

EDIT:
Theodora may also know Mathematics. Math leads to Currency and Markets. If we have a dire need for markets (a Domestic issue), I would suggest we trade Philolosophy for Math and start to research Currency. If the need is not great, I would not make such a trade.

I'm thinking that Literature, instead of Iron Working should be our next tech. It looks like our defenses our pretty sound and we are not at war, so an immediate need for Iron Working is not present.

I favor Literature for the trading advantages it gives us. Others may know CoL, but Philosophy we have a monopoly on and also Republic. Once we get a Curragh across the ocean we will meet new civs. With Lit, CoL, Philo and Republic in near monopoly status, we can trade for all the Ancient techs, including Iron Working. At some point the Orange Apes will sell Iron Working to fair Theodora and we can buy it from her.

Literature lets us build libraries, which are good for culture and research.

A discussion thread in the citizen's forum might be a good idea. I think some others may have very different ideas.

Looks like we have some potential trades!

Byzantines have Iron Working, Masonry and Map Making they are willing to trade for our Philosophy, Code of Laws and Literature. Not sure if we will want to trade Literature yet, if not we won't be able to get all 3, but we could get Iron Working, Masonry and 21 gold for Philosophy.

Thanks for the update, Furiey! I'm out of time right now but I'll try to look at the save before I go to bed tonight.

There was a lot of discussion about not trading Philosophy in order to keep everyone as far away as possible from Republic.

We also have the option of building the Great Library and then "stealing" from the Fomorach. In that case we don't want to trade and only need to research the techs we absolutely need.

I'm for withholding our techs from everyone at the moment.

I seriously want to get IW.
Our Gallic Swordsmen will be much better explorers, with better movement points and barbarians will just get destroyed. If we find a weak AI, than we could get a G/A wiping 'em out with a Gallic Swordsman, we already have a republic, five cities, and two settlers.

Looks like we have some potential trades!

Byzantines have Iron Working, Masonry and Map Making they are willing to trade for our Philosophy, Code of Laws and Literature. Not sure if we will want to trade Literature yet, if not we won't be able to get all 3, but we could get Iron Working, Masonry and 21 gold for Philosophy.
A better trade would be Literature for Iron Working and Masonry and whatever gold we could get. That keeps Philosophy and Code Of Laws intact for further trading.

Tech Costs Per CAII

Our Techs

Philosophy 149
Code of Laws 248
Literature 248
Republic 696 (not tradeable right now)

Byzantium Techs

Masonry 90
Iron Working 138
Map Making 298



If we offer Code of Laws we can get Masonry, Iron Working and all of Theodora's gold. But we give up a tech that leads to Republic.

Literature is optional, which may explain why the AI offers less for it.

However, Literature opens us the way to The Great Library. Byzantium and the Orange Apes are both building The Pyramids. If we trade away Lit, we could be trading away our shot at the Great Library, slated to be built in Maeve, where it will take 27 turns to complete, due to a Wonder Cascade.

Bottom Line
I don't think that trading to get Iron Working is worth either tech we have to trade. We either make Republic easier for the AI or put the Great Library at risk.

Let us self-research Iron Working (7 turns), and then start on Map Making (15 turns).

The question I have is why are we so afraid someone will eventually research Republic? In my experience, the AIs almost never research Republic before Monarchy and Construction. At Emperor in my games, Republic is usually a monopoly until the I trade it away. If we want IW, trade for it or wait for the GLib to get it seems wisest to me. The Bzyzies will be doing Polytheism, Monarchy and Construction before even thinking about Republic. In my years on this site, I've seen very few players encouraging tech-hoarding and many encouraging getting good value out of hard-earned research. I don't want to be a crank, but I do want Hibernia to flourish.
Isolationism is not a good policy.

The question I have is why are we so afraid someone will eventually research Republic? In my experience, the AIs almost never research Republic before Monarchy and Construction. At Emperor in my games, Republic is usually a monopoly until the I trade it away. If we want IW, trade for it or wait for the GLib to get it seems wisest to me. The Bzyzies will be doing Polytheism, Monarchy and Construction before even thinking about Republic. In my years on this site, I've seen very few players encouraging tech-hoarding and many encouraging getting good value out of hard-earned research. I don't want to be a crank, but I do want Hibernia to flourish.
Isolationism is not a good policy.
Overall, I agree with you. I find it strange that I keep suggesting that we don't trade. It seems so backwards and almost wrong.

The best reason I have not to trade either Philosophy or CoL is to keep them as trade bait when we get overseas. I think we're building a boat somewhere to explore the rest of the world. If don't have a boat in the works, then, yes, let's get some use of those two techs.

Not trading Literature is just in our self interest for right now, until The Pyramids are built. But that has been better discussed in another thread.

Update:

The Great Library is ours! However the 3 civs that we know are isolated from each other, so we don't get many techs automatically yet.

Per CAII, Currency costs 426, we've gathtered 337, leaving 89 beakers to go.
We bring in 45 bpt, so we'll have a 1 beaker overrun.

We are growing our treasury at -12 gpt, with 29 gold in the bank. Two more turns and that has got to change.

Construction costs 533, which is 11.84 turns at the current rate, which we cannot afford. Three libraries will complete soon to help with research.

We will be forced to research Construction slowly.

Based on the current economy, the rate would be 20% (23 bpt) with +6 gpt, or 23.17 turns; roughly twice as long. (No surprise there since we are dropping from 40% science to 20%; half as many beakers each turn doubles the learing curve. Just stating the obvious.)

Tech and Trade suggests (since this is not TnT's worry) that the current library builds be switched to markets once Currency is known. That will help our cities to be less unhappy (and less to worry about) while generating some extra beakers to science. The libraries could follow the markets in the build order.

Suggested tech path: Currency (in 2 turns), learn Construction (slowly, as explained above) and then Horseback Riding (which nobody knows right now) and finally Map Making (known only by the Byzantines). We should be able to pick up Map Making from the GLib, probably before we learn Constructon. We might be able to get HBR in the same way, but that seems doubtful based on the game situation. Hiring one geek might be the best way to get HBR via the GLib while we build up cash for something.

Tech Research Order: Currency at full speed, Construction as fast as we can, Horseback Riding at one geek, expecting to get Map Making via the Great Library.

If we make it into the Middle Ages, Engineering (for bridges and faster movement) should be learned before Feudalism (Pikes, Maces and Sun Tzu's Art of War). With GSs and ACs, and a quiet world, we don't have an immediate need for the new units of war.


Tech Suggestions: Change current library builds to markets and then rebuild libraries.

Ottomans know Monarchy (monopoly tech) and Byzantines know Map Making (also a monopoly tech). Monarchy we don't need (except as trade bait when we cross the oceans) and Map Making we can wait on. If either the Ottomans or the Orange Apes learn it, so do we.

We are the tech leaders on our part of the world and will be so for a long time.

Trade Recommendations: No trades at this time.

I'm hoping the other civs will find each other and start trading, since we automatically get the benefit as soon as two of them know a tech. :)

We are learning Construction at 40%, 8 turns left, +2 gpt.

We have two libraries built and two more under construction. Both cities with libraries are building Gallic Swords, one city is building Statue of Zeus, with three markets and one barracks being built in the other cities.

Not much has changed in the last two hundred years. Well, the Byazntines now know Horseback Riding, which they didn't in 450 BC. Map Making will cost us 298 beakers; HBR is much cheaper at 122. I hope that in 8 turns The Great Library will give us those two tech.

Tech Research Order: Construction first, followed by Map Making, then Horseback Riding. In the Middle Ages (if we get there this turnset) Engineering is first, followed by Feudalism. Once we get Construction, learning at one-geek speed while we get rich is fine.

I plann on turning the Sci Rate to 0% for a couple of turns, CB. We need rush/upgrade gold.

Byzantines have a monopoly on Map Making and Horseback Riding.

We have a monopoly on Literature, Republic and Currency.

If, when we learn Construction, we have not learned Map Making and Horseback Riding, we can trade for them. We could do that now but let's see what The Great Library can do for us.

We do have a trade opportunity with the Orange Apes. They lack Writing and would bankrupt themselves to learn this tech. Our treasury would increase by 219 gold. This would leave them one tech behind the Ottomans (Philosophy) and four techs behind the Byzantines (Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making and Horseback Riding) and far behind us. The dolts would be grateful to us for taking their cash.

In earlier discussions, we would not lower ourselves to beg knowledge from them and increase their treasury. We now have the chance to sell them a rather worthless piece of knowldege for a fair amount of gold.

Trade Recommendations: Sell Writing to the Orange Apes for all their gold.

EDIT (in italics):
If, after learning Construction, we want to enter the Middle Ages, trade with Bzyantines for whatever tech(s) we lack. We'll try to get the techs we need and all their gold, if we can.
(Changed my mind, now think that stopping to discuss is better.)

Trade Suggestions: I would ask that the turns cease once we learn Construction, if and only if we have not learned Map Making and Horseback Riding. We would want to discuss the wisdom of gifting Byzantium/Ottomans into the Middle Ages and trading for free tech.

My chart was posted for the forum to see and post constructive comments. Your assumption, out of honesty, that I will be discussing where I was whipsawed, is appreciated, however you are already too far into your assumption, as I have yet to trade this. Hence the purpose of my post.

You mentioned the best trader in the world. I dont think that is possible, but if we all you too Manny strive for that, and only get halfway there, then we are still doing well

CONSTRUCTIVE comments wanted

later

My chart was posted for the forum to see and post constructive comments. Your assumption, out of honesty, that I will be discussing where I was whipsawed, is appreciated, however you are already too far into your assumption, as I have yet to trade this. Hence the purpose of my post.

You mentioned the best trader in the world. I dont think that is possible, but if we all you too Manny strive for that, and only get halfway there, then we are still doing well

CONSTRUCTIVE comments wanted

later
This is Ammiddeon first post, on August 26, 2009, after joining the forum on August 2, 2009.

I have no idea what this person is talking about. I really hate to respond at all, but since post counts can change, it would not be obvious later that this is Ammiddeon's first post, and someone might try to track down the post he is talking about.

I already did. I believe he started a new log on name and thought he was posting somewhere else. Maybe the Civ4 DG. I couldn't find anything. I even traced a poster named Manny. But to no avail...
:dunno:

Looks like we all had the same idea...