I'll throw this out there because i truly believe it can be a valuable tip to those that read.

Well I tend to overpopulate my cities(mainly capital) too early, so id have to say monarchy so I can hold a higher population.

Varies way too much depending on my situation or leader. Code of Laws, Metal Casting, Literature, Alphabet... lots of different possible priorities.

Bronze-working: Slavery and chopping

Code of Laws: The shrine money can be very useful later

Construction: If I want to war

Mathematics: If I want to chop an early wonder, depends on resources

Alphabet: Usually use it to trade Iron working/ Monarchy

Archery

Instant defense against everything including barbarian hordes that appear sometimes.

This is the superior

Future Tech ;)

Civ IV: Alphabet -- most times, but it varies.

Fall From Heaven 2 mod: Agriculture -- depends on what civilization I'm leading.

Generally, I choose a tech that I can use immediately, with multiple benefits, and that fits with a long term research path. But I'm flexible as to the specific tech. In FFH2, as the Forest Elves I might go for their signature religion Fellowship of the Leaves, so I might chose Ancient Chants to start. But commanding other civs, I might choose Crafting to go for metals, or Education to get cottages.

I do have favorite techs though that I prioritize like the much dismissed Archery; for the Forest Elves Archery is an easy and valuable tech: city defense, extra +1 strength, cheap archery ranges.

1) BW
2) Monarchy and/or Currency and/or CoL
or
2) Lit
3) CS -> Philo -> Paper -> Ed -> Lib

Hi

I like to get BW as soon as practical and by as soon as practical I mean do I currently have the necessary worker techs to exploit the resources in my starting cap--if answer is no then I get whatever they may be like ag, ah, hunting, or fishing depending on the start then once thats taking care of I go for bw as soon as I can. Then its wheel, pottery, masonry. Unless there no horseys or copper close then its either masonry to try for gw or go for archery THEN wheel pottery "as soon as practical" which may mean next thing or may mean after other techs first like say bw didnt spawn copper newhere convenient so then its ah if I havent teched it alrdy to look for horseys or maybe while I DIDNT need ah to work good tiles in start loc I might want it to get second city going or something it just all dependis on how map looks.

Only exceptions being civs like persia or egypt then its AH and wheel "as soon as practical" then bw.

I guess this is my idea for "play the map". The traits, UU's, UB, starting techs, etc of civ Im playing determine what I would like to get "as soon as practical" but lots of times the map as in resources available, type of terain and even who turns out to be closest neighbors. dertimnes what "as soon as practical" actually means. And that probably why I have nooo clue what I am doing most of the time hehe since it probably not even close to what the good players mean by play the map :P .

Kaytie

Highly situational. As said before, play the map.

I'll have to repeat the play the map assertion...
Most frequent early tech path for me is agri >AH>wheel>pottery>writing>alpha
but I play a lot of HoF without barbs.

If I have obvious resources, then I'll want the techs to hook up those resources (i.e. Agriculture/Animal Husbandry/Mining/Hunting), but the first priority for my early game is getting enough hammers to build a couple of defensive units/scouts/fogbusters and either sufficient offensive units or a Settler or two. For me, that almost always means:

Food Tech (usually Agriculture) followed by
Bronze Working.

If I start with a food tech that works for the map (i.e. not fishing in the middle of a continent), then I'll just head straight for BW. Everything after that can follow in an order that makes sense for the map and for the leader.

I find that with the usual forested start in BTS, that most times I have to prioritize BW even if I don't want to whip right away, or even find copper for that matter. Otherwise, my worker improves my 2 food resources or whatever, and then has nothing to do as every other tile is forested or coast.

I tend to prioritize currency over COL, especially if I've got open borders and trade routes with a couple of other civs. If I'm organized though, I can whip those courthouses quickly, so I will usually go for COL first in that situation.

I go through this thought process

1) Food. Am I starting with enough or do I need more? Grains and grasslands rivers with agriculture answer this question at the start, so does fishing with seafood. Otherwise, food is always my first priority

2) Military: Usually archery if I start with hunting, BW if mining, AH if agricultre or wheel. If I miss horse or copper I go after archery early.

3) Early economy: Pottery, writing, sailing depending which helps earlier. Cottages if on a river, writing if Philosophical, sailing if coastal and Organized. Otherwise it's a situational decision.

4) Iron/HBR depending on neighbors.

5) Math which opens up Currency or Clander (resource dependant).

6) Code of Laws.

What I usually delay is alphabet, Monarchy, Aesthetics except under certain circumstances.

Play the map as stated before.

Its always best to be flexible in your strategy but when you make a choice to pursue the goal quikly.

If, for instance, you have a lot of coastline and some offshore islands, and decide to make trade routes your thing, make sure you get that great lighthouse up quikly with masonry and sailing and then on to currency for the extra trade route, maybe build ToA etc

If you have a lot of forests, bronze working for chops!

If you hav a UU like preats and some pesky neighbours, get to iron working quikly
If you have a UU like Bowmen tech archery ASAP

etc etc

Edit: basically what KaytieKat said. :)

I'll have to repeat the play the map assertion...

Quoted for truth. Also, your civ's starting techs can decide your early tech path greatly. Before the map is explored enough to know what's truly beneficial, you'll still be teching. So if my leader starts with Mining/Mysticism, I'll likely be teching Agriculture first (unless water start, then fishing). Food is so necessary. Or if I start with Agri/Wheel, I'll probably go for AH first for horses.

I've recently found that going for Alphabet early is a huge advantage. Not only does it open up tech trading, but it also allows spies and building :science:. Also, it is one of the highest prioritized AI techs for heavy backfilling. Also, if you have large food resources and a specialist heavy economy is an obvious choice, building :science: in hammer heavy cities while whipping the army in food heavy cities until CoL/Caste System/Courthouses is awesome.

It's kinda like a role-reversal. Once you get your courthouses whipped up and switch to Caste System, the food heavy cities will be providing :science: while your hammer cities turn into the military factories.

I agree with play the map.

If your starting location has a lot of forests, tech BW to chop them.
If your starting location has a lot of food, but weak production, tech BW to enable slavery.
If you have a juicy AI nearby, tech BW to enable the axe rush.

If none of the above is true, then BW might wait until after alphabet. But usually I like it very quickly.

Incidentally, I really wish slavery were moved to another tech that wasn't already almost mandatory.

Food and BW asap.
If no nearby Cu: masonry or archery (I'm not comfortable about gambling on horses when no Cu is revealed).
Usually followed by pottery and writing.
Then it depends. Sometimes Monarchy and CoL via Priesthood. Sometimes currency and CoL via mathematics. Sometimes straight to aesthetics and literature.
I never self-research alphabet.

All the above is highly variable and highly map-dependent. On some maps I take a detour to stuff like sailing (GLH, plain lighthouses, seafood defense), IW (jungle), HBR (horse archers spam), early calendar, metal casting.

Currently playing Emperor/standard settings.

Playing the map is of course the best strategy and no particular tech is going to be the most valuable in every game.

Still, I find that considering writing as an early goal is valuable for a few reasons. I consider it a cut off point, at which I often shut down research for a while. It usually goes like this:

1) First, get all of the must-have techs, depending on the map and starting situation. This means all necessary worker techs including BW, usually AH and/or Pottery as well as mysticism for monuments, and occasionally sailing. Archery for protection if no immediate copper or horses.

2) Research writing as soon as is practicable, with research still maxed out. This sometimes means crawling to it if you needed a lot of prior techs or didn't pop any gold from huts. (Sometimes building Stone Henge for a few turns can help with this.)

3) As soon as you get writing shut down research completely. Don't turn it back on until you have put up a few libraries. The gold you have stored in the meantime will now be converted to beakers at a better rate and you can run 100% research in order to quickly finish your next tech (often Aesthetics). This also provides the gold to pay for a big REX or a pile of axes. One can also try funding espionage for a turn or two (with all points directed toward one AI) in order to see what they are researching and plan your tech path accordingly.

Hope this helps, though it is oriented toward higher difficulties where pinching pennies is crucial. On lower levels you can probably just keep researching without much worry.

@JBossch: There was an article on Binary Researching somewhere and I can't seem to find it right now. Basically, you run at 0% science slider for a few turns, then crank it up to 100% science for the remainder of the research and you do this for all your techs.

I found this to be a huge boon (especially in the early game when single multiplier buildings make the most difference, and later game when you have tons of multiplier buildings) and it aided in all my gameplay.

Even though this was first created to help overcome rounding issues in the early game (by higher level players), I find it has helped me greatly throughout the entire game on my current Noble/Prince setting.

I'll see how many turns it takes to research a tech at the highest slider position while still gaining gold. Then I'll see how many turns it would take at 100% science. Subtract the two. Then, I'll run at 0% science for the amount of turns difference between the 2, then I'll switch to 100% science until the tech is discovered. I won't lower the slider at the last turn of the tech because the overflow is nice to have.

I've found that (until maintenance becomes a BIG issue), I'm left with gold reserves and still tech at the same rate I would if I just ran at 70% (minimum turns to tech while in the green) the whole time. Eventually, the gold adds up and I can tech faster than I would at 70% by running in 100% for the entire tech.

I'm pretty sure this is only truly effective in a Cottage-based economy and you'll be needing plenty of courthouses to overcome the maintenance costs.

@ Blitzkreig: Yes, the turns it takes will be about the same given no other variables but what I'm talking about is massing gold until you get libraries so that it can be converted to beakers at a higher rate when you have them. This is very early in the game before you are likely to have any cottages at all.

This is very early in the game before you are likely to have any cottages at all.

Well, that depends heavily on the map and my chosen style of economy. If I'm looking at thin food resources, I'll likely go for pottery before writing. I've found that the faster I get pottery for a cottage-heavy economy, the more likely I am to win the game. Fast cottages = quicker tech lead ;).

So, it's likely that I'll have a half dozen cottages down already by the time I'm whipping libraries :D. Oh yeah, that's another thing... I tend to whip the crap outta my population in the early game for infrastructure and multiplier buildings. So it might only be 4 or 5 turns before I have a library (which in that case, I'm probably running 0% anyway thanks to binary research)

1 or 2 tech for tile in the BFC
build several warrior for later HR,
then Archery
I always do these.

Priesthood.

BW. I don't have to worry about the happy caps if I just whip away all the whiners.

BW. I don't have to worry about the happy caps if I just whip away all the whiners.

I'm following the thread but don't see where anyone has mentioned happy caps? BW is nice, and slavery is one of my favorite civics but I tend to think of BW as one of the mandatory opening techs - like agriculture, ah, mining, etc.

I'm following the thread but don't see where anyone has mentioned happy caps? BW is nice, and slavery is one of my favorite civics but I tend to think of BW as one of the mandatory opening techs - like agriculture, ah, mining, etc.

I think that he was just giving happy caps as the primary reason why he likes Bronze Working so much as a first tech goal.

It's the biggest reason why I like Slavery too. I'm :) limited in the early game more than anything else and I never got too much benefit from Slavery because you get 1 :mad: to make up for the 1 :mad: you lose with the 1 population decrease. Then I learned to whip for 2 or 3 population. My game improved quite a bit when I specifically learned to only start production on workers after the game's opening turns when I have 4 population so that I could then whip them for 2 pop.

the fallacy of "play the map" is clear.

regardless of the situation with Archery one can build the first decent unit regardless if you are on the coast or in the jungle.

the "play the mappers" are suggesting flexibility- which ironically can be attained- with archers.

i suggest instead of playing the map- one is better off playing the game- of which the map is but a setting for the horror about to unfold. This is the superior.

The same technique (mentioned by JBossch) of coordinating the slider setting with a building programme can be adopted whenever you mass build science multipliers. Hoard gold while you're building any of libraries, monasteries, universities or observatories and then once most of them have been completed raise the science slider. Now each gold spent on deficit research is giving 0.25 additional beakers. Throughout the game that can be worth several hundred beakers for no effort apart from adjusting the slider.

Well apart from what everyone else has already mentioned if I'm going for the GW or Pyramids then Masonary, or if I want to hook up stone or marble early for another wonder. Similarly if it's the GLH I want then Sailing is a research priority. Getting any one of those wonders can chane the shape of the whole game.

the fallacy of "play the map" is clear.

regardless of the situation with Archery one can build the first decent unit regardless if you are on the coast or in the jungle.

the "play the mappers" are suggesting flexibility- which ironically can be attained- with archers.

i suggest instead of playing the map- one is better off playing the game- of which the map is but a setting for the horror about to unfold. This is the superior.

:rolleyes:

Oh God... "the superior" is at it again with his archers. Yoda you are not, my friend. IIRC, on any 'respectable' difficulty level, AI starts with 2 archers and archery. If you're near a PRO civ, your archers wouldn't stand much chance against CGI/II/Drill I archers on a hill.

However, if you start with 2 irrigated corn in the BFC, teching Agriculture is certainly ideal.

That is the superior ;)

Initially, I play the BFC. If there are nom-nom animals in my capitol's BFC I go for Animal Husbandry, if not I go right for Agriculture (if my civ does start with it). If neither apply, it's the Wheel then Bronze Working. Locating metal and horses are almost always my first strategic priorities. It won't be long before Genghis Khan shows up with a stack of axes or Keshiks. I try to make sure I'm knocking on his door first.

Monotheism. I prefer to found a religion... but if I haven't started with Mysticism, I either miss out on Meditation/Polytheism, or I have to beeline at the expense of early techs that I choose according to the map.

Once I get the basics I need for my map position, I go for Monotheism and manage to found Judaism first almost without fail.

Worker techs for my BFC followed by Bronze Working or Animal Husbandry. I want to know where copper and horses are located when I start expanding. Basically what Woodreaux said. If want to found a religion, it'll be later on (Confucianism with Code of Laws, for example)

I'll throw this out there because i truly believe it can be a valuable tip to those that read.

Well I tend to overpopulate my cities(mainly capital) too early, so id have to say monarchy so I can hold a higher population.

Don't have that problem.

Answer: whichever tech gets me my 1st religion, Priesthood (in that order).

It depends, sometimes you want Calendar early.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn131/Gliese5812/Calendarprio0001.jpg

I often try to get priesthood and chop out Oracle

Big issue with oracle is do I want writing (for CoL) or Pottery for MC. ON higher difficulties Writing is more of a gambit because either way one of first techs has to be bronze working for slavery and chopping the wonder anyway. That means its a real dash to get to writing if you aren't set up well or don't get lucky in cottage pops.

Note: while to get the basic prereq's are skewed to CoL advantage in terms of total tech price for this gambit, BW is necessary or you won't win race so then Agri/Fishing +wheel and then pottery are not so bad an alternative


edit: I'm wrong about tech tree. Writing can be pretty expensive with only one prereq though (priesthood) so going for MC isn't a bad gambit on high difficulties BUT MC is more of a risk

Lol Gliese

Then again what if you have stone or marble?

You don't need the wheel or pottery - you only need AH and Writing so civilizations starting with the wheel are actually at a disadvantage because they have to research an additional tech for the CoL slingshot. Don't forget CoL gives you the choice to run a GM farm and use a GM to bulb MC. The opposite doesn't hold true.

1. Techs to improve capitol + nearby food
2. Bronze working for whip/chop (usually, not always)
3. Pottery/writing (set up the economy)
4. Alphabet or aesthetics (trades and opens build research)
5. Currency or CoL (instant econ recovery or religion/caste/gpp/trade bait as needed)
6. Civil service

Sometimes going to literature or oracle is good too. Masonry with stone/marble to use as well of course.

You don't need the wheel or pottery - you only need AH and Writing so civilizations starting with the wheel are actually at a disadvantage because they have to research an additional tech for the CoL slingshot. Don't forget CoL gives you the choice to run a GM farm and use a GM to bulb MC. The opposite doesn't hold true.

That's a good point. You should post that on the Forge/Courthouse debate thread. That pretty much ends the debate in my eyes about oracle sling shot.

I find myself pursuing Monarchy in quite a lot of games. The ability to run an extra riverside cottage in every city is like having courthouses at 1/5th of the cost (all a courthouse does is make 1-7 coins a turn, growing with time; just like a cottage!). And that's only the start of it. Add in grapevine tiles for another happiness and some coins upfront, and martial law happiness after the 1st defender, and you've got a very versatile set of bonusses that pay their investment back in no time. I guess the only downside is the lacking tradability, but then I was already an isolationist bastard to begin with. ;)

all a courthouse does is make 1-7 coins a turn

Well, actually, courthouses allow for further expansion (further from the capital) as distance has a great effect on maintenance costs especially earlier in the game. I've found that after an extra aggressive expansion policy, my science slider will be teetering on the edge of 0% with negative gold coming in. After CoL and whipping courthouses in the most distant of cities (also newly captured with :mad: "We yearn to join the motherland!") and progressively whipping courthouses closer to the capital, I can have my science slider back at 60-70% with positive :gold: income quite quickly.

I've never experienced such a turn around with a single cottage per city.

Well, actually, courthouses allow for further expansion (further from the capital) as distance has a great effect on maintenance costs especially earlier in the game. I've found that after an extra aggressive expansion policy, my science slider will be teetering on the edge of 0% with negative gold coming in. After CoL and whipping courthouses in the most distant of cities (also newly captured with :mad: "We yearn to join the motherland!") and progressively whipping courthouses closer to the capital, I can have my science slider back at 60-70% with positive :gold: income quite quickly.

I've never experienced such a turn around with a single cottage per city.

You can quickly approximate the effects of courthouses in most of your cities with a single market in your capitol very frequently. 30 commerce isn't really a reach since you have 8 from the palace, meaning that a market is usually worth upwards of 7.5 gpt if you're near 0 on the slider...that's fast recovery along with wealth and CoL isn't far off.

I find currency the better recovery tech typically although the ability to trade CoL frequently justifies it, especially if you're floundering and have AIs to trade.

I find currency the better recovery tech typically although the ability to trade CoL frequently justifies it, especially if you're floundering and have AIs to trade.
I agree currency is a better recovery tech on the fast majority of maps. Market in capital often helps as much as ~3 courthouses, it also gives some often useful happiness. On higher levels trade value of col goes down, currency is often just as good as Col to trade way although i'm not particularly fond of trading either of these techs away.

You can quickly approximate the effects of courthouses in most of your cities with a single market in your capitol very frequently. 30 commerce isn't really a reach since you have 8 from the palace, meaning that a market is usually worth upwards of 7.5 gpt if you're near 0 on the slider...that's fast recovery along with wealth and CoL isn't far off.

I find currency the better recovery tech typically although the ability to trade CoL frequently justifies it, especially if you're floundering and have AIs to trade.

Well, I've overcome my inability to win on Prince by instilling a policy of violent and excessive horizontal expansion. And, honestly, a market in my capital will not do the trick. Even with a cottage spammed capital, I need to chop / whip those courthouses in my furthest cities in order to recover my economy. Currency / trade routes helps out, but I find myself expanding further even after getting currency. This is when courthouses shine.

I agree currency is a better recovery tech on the fast majority of maps. Market in capital often helps as much as ~3 courthouses, it also gives some often useful happiness. On higher levels trade value of col goes down, currency is often just as good as Col to trade way although i'm not particularly fond of trading either of these techs away.

This must be a game to game thing, because market in my capital never recovers my economy enough for me to say it's better than CoL. 7.5 :gold:/turn would allow me to bump the slider from 0/10% to 10/20%

I'm noticing a trend in my games now, on Prince. I'm not really fond of it. It seems like I chop/whip expansion army, take over neighbor. Chop/whip workers. Grow out of :mad: from whip. Then, chop/whip expansion army, take over neighbor while researching Alphabet, then build research while teching CoL, then chop/whip courthouses and start my Liberalism run. Using this method, I've achieved my highest scores ever in Civ and they are all happening on Prince! It's like Prince is easier for me now than Noble was for me on my last noble game! I'm getting 120,000 / 148,000 / 96,000. It's nuts. Should I move up to monarch?

This must be a game to game thing, because market in my capital never recovers my economy enough for me to say it's better than CoL. 7.5 :gold:/turn would allow me to bump the slider from 0/10% to 10/20%

if you don't have commerce in your capital, it's not true of course.
This tip is given 'for free' by HoF players that very often start with gold, gems or such things in the capital.
Personally I'm a big fan of currency because it allows to trade for gold and that is a big recoverer.
just beg a bit and you have 300 or more gold in your coffers, which is enough for a few turns at 100%.

and you should move up if prince is getting too easy. Then again, you seem to play a bit recipe like, and you may lack adaptability for a random start at a higher level. Just try it.

if you don't have commerce in your capital, it's not true of course.
This tip is given 'for free' by HoF players that very often start with gold, gems or such things in the capital.
Personally I'm a big fan of currency because it allows to trade for gold and that is a big recoverer.
just beg a bit and you have 300 or more gold in your coffers, which is enough for a few turns at 100%.

and you should move up if prince is getting too easy. Then again, you seem to play a bit recipe like, and you may lack adaptability for a random start at a higher level. Just try it.

Well, the thing is that I play random maps, but regenerate the map when it's not to my liking. This I will do on all levels of difficulty, though, so it really doesn't matter. The "formulaic" way that I play seems to work on all these starts, though. High food = lots of whipped workers/units. High hammers = whip workers, lots of built units. The whip/conquer, whip workers. Whip/conquer whip workers/courthouses seems like it would work on any non-islands or arch maps.

Isolated starts are where I really shine through, though. Give me minimal unit requirements, I'll give you a vast tech lead over all the AI by the time Optics introduces us ;). I should move up to monarch and see how I fair, though. The AI already having archery will force me to use new strategies me-thinks.

Then again, you seem to play a bit recipe like, and you may lack adaptability for a random start at a higher level. Just try it.

Recipe like is the best way to play (take a look at the Winner of King of the Hill). Eventually there is no adaptability left because after you play the game 1000s and 1000s of times you never find yourself in a situation you haven't been in before, the same holds true of maps and the tiles they provide.

Adaptability only goes so far, after a while it's all about execution and results and those with a better recipe will do better :)

^True, and this principle extends to other games like chess/bridge but also tennis for instance as well. Having been there before is so important.

It goes much further than that =D

Ever watch the show with Guy Ferrari where he goes around to all the diners and what not eating up all the good food ^^. There is always some secret family recipe that hasn't changed in 1,000 years or something crazy. Same with everything...........

It's all about using and doing the same thing over and over again, never changing (you've already went through the agonizing process to reach your current expertise), simply repeating, yet executing it perfectly.

It depends. Play the map. I would add, play the level, as some strategems are less effective on different difficulties. For example, the Aesthetics Beeline is pretty useless on Prince, as you get Aesthetics faster than the AI gets to Alphabet, which really restricts your ability to trade it around.

It would be nice to have people elaborate on what IT depends on. Which situation calls for targeting Monarchy instead of CoL, or Currency over Metal Casting, etc?

I almost always use the following variant in any game type:

1st: mining / BW / AH
2d: Pottery / Writing
3rd: Mathematics -> Currency -> Code of Laws

This is my personal variant and it works very well for me, early mathematics and currency boosts my production (from forests) and boosts my economy/science. I never research Alphabet and I always get it in tech trade usually for mathematics + cheap tech.

REX. Defense. Alphabet. All cities to Research. Currency. Code of Laws. Then build courthouses followed by marketplaces everywhere. Defense is pretty thin though and this doesn't work if you get SoD'd.

1st: mining / BW / AH
2d: Pottery / Writing
3rd: Mathematics -> Currency -> Code of Laws


You are a genius =D. I use a similar order except I don't research pottery so I can get mathematics asap and a majority of the time I get construction before CoL so my siege can rape the 2nd civilization I choose to kill, then once the money is wearing off from conquering, building wealth, and selling techs, then I start on infrastructure. Besides, I don't build cottages for a long time and low cap cities grow fast enough to enable whipping every 10 turns if necessary.

But if you take maths instead of alphabet you can't claim science from the conquered. Sure it gets you a little closer to siege but civs like mongols or romans (and many others) don't really need siege to conquer their neighbours at this point in the game (unless the enemy is PRO).

But if you take maths instead of alphabet you can't claim science from the conquered. Sure it gets you a little closer to siege but civs like mongols or romans (and many others) don't really need siege to conquer their neighbours at this point in the game (unless the enemy is PRO).

You do if you're playing the right level and attacking the right neighbor. They'll research Alphabet themselves fast enough that they'll be able to trade you techs for peace.

...of course, I've noticed often enough that they're not willing to do so even if they're down to their last city after I've taken their Capital. :(

I don't rely on getting techs from conquered AIs because causing enough war weariness on the target to force him to give away techs is usually a gamble. Different leaders have different war weariness levels and most of them reach vassalage acceptance before giving away a worthy tech.