This mod contains my Malakim/DovielloPlus mods, Wild Mana, Minor Leaders, the Mechanos by Ahwaric and the Legion of D'tesh by Mailbox.

Installation: Make sure you are running off of FfH 041, then install FF, FF patch N, FFPlus, and finally any FFPlus patch.



Wasteland is no longer Hell Terrain, and is removed by Spring.
Dwarven Commanders gain Ranged Attack as with normal commanders. The Khazad are all around better with forts. :lol:
Undead promotion now blocks all disease.
Hallowing of the Elohim fixed.
Malakim Archer art fixed.
Defender and Protective traits merged.
Expert Miner renamed Veinhunter.
Thanatos (leader) gains Agnostic.
Thanatos (hero) gains Angel.


Patch C:


Fort Commanders

Forts, and all fort replacements/upgrades, can now be 'claimed'. This creates a Fort Commander, a unit that gains in power over time, and is able to spread your borders first to the fort itself, then to the ring of tiles immediately surrounding it, and then, for the Kuriotates and Khazad, the ring beyond that.


Pioneer unit -

Kuriotates Only
60 :hammers:
Can 'found' Castles, settling as a Fort Commander with Expanded Influence (first ring of culture).


Adventurer Spawning tweaked again... Should be good now. 4 spawns in 120 turns on normal... Seems reasonable.
Art Fixes -

Soldier of Kilmorph art reverted.
Warkirby's Austrin Champion brought in.
Warkirby's buttons brought in for the Siegesmith and Dwarven Mines.
Graveyards now visible.


Blue Marble option removed... Kael removed the art, no point in keeping it.
Hawks temporarily blocked, until I can get a new DLL.
Civilizations put in Alphebetical Order in the Civ Select screen.

Only affects the Jotnar, Mechanos, and D'tesh.


Minor Leader Changes -

Gimil gains Craftmaster

Grants Mobility 1 to all Golem units.




Jotnar Changes -

Father Kasghenal loses Financial, gains Conqueror. Have fun being able to build units. :p
Uxol the Half-Breed loses Raiders, gains Treacherous. Treacherous now blocks Estranged... Trolls will never revolt.
New Leader: Hephaestus - Blacksmith/Minor.

Blacksmith - grants 1 :hammers: on tiles with 3 or more, and allows Worker/Melee/Adept/Disciple/Recon units access to all weapon promotions.


Barbarians gain Wild Trolls as hunter UUs, rather than Lizardmen. No longer quite as obvious who's attacking you.


Mechanos Changes -

Factory yields changed. +15% :hammers:, +15% with Power, +5% with each Refined Mana.
Pillar of Creation requires Machinery, up from Construction.
Dirigible Fleet:

Queen of the Line UU
4 :strength:
5 :move:
450 :hammers:
10 Cargo
Can Explore Rival Territory
-25% vs Archery Units
Refined Mana Affinity


All Aircraft gain a -25% vs Archery modifier.


The Legion of D'tesh Changes -

New Minor Hero: Thanatos -

Angel of Death artwork
5 :strength:
2 :move:
80 :hammers:
Hunter stats
Starts with Battle-Hardened, as with Lucian.


The D'tesh now spread Wastelands, rather than Desert.

Still uses scorch, simply creates Wastelands rather than desert based on civ.
This will prevent your empire from suddenly becoming Burning Sands.
Wastelands are technically Hell Terrain, and increase the plot counter. D'tesh are able to scorch desert and all hell terrains down to Wastelands. This has the side effect of spreading hell out around D'teshi lands once the AC gets high enough... Which I'm fine with.
Can be removed with Sanctify, becomes Desert. Removes a 3x3 square of Wastelands... Which is why I'm fine with spreading hell terrain.


Gain the Crypt improvement, rather than the graveyard. Pillageable, and new art. Can be told apart from normal graveyards.
Now immune to the River of Blood spell.
Unique option for the Sickness event... Rather than lose population, you gain a Warrior.
The Arawn event now causes 3 turns of Anarchy.
New Worldspell: Death's Dominion -

Grants the 'Death's Dominion' promotion to all units.

15 turn duration.
100% chance to generate slaves from combat.







Known Issues:


Power icon shows as the Ranged Strength icon... This will be fixed in the next FF release, so I didn't mess with it.


Version 020 Changelog (minor changes may not be listed):


New Technology: Alchemy.

For now, this technology is required for the Silver Circle wonder. The Wandering Sage unit it allows is now the Alchemist, and is able to transmute metals into gold.
For the Mechanos(see below), this tech allows their Berserker UU and improves the yields of their Refinery improvement.


The Rise of the Mechanos!

A steam-punk civilization created for Orbis by Ahwaric, the Mechanos are blocked from all mana use, and instead gain a Refinery improvement to be built on Mana. The Refined Mana this grants is used by a UB to grant power to their buildings, and grants extra strength to all Siege Weapons.
They are a Siege-heavy civ as with the Khazad, but have gone a different route. Rather than refine their craftmanship, they have gone for bigger and faster. Their Siege machines do not have a city attack bonus, unlike all other siege units, but have a higher combat strength as a result, and are functional in the field as well as at Siege.
The majority of their units use guns/machinery of some kind. For example, their Berserker UU is the Grenadier, available at Alchemy.
The Mechanos possess 3 heroes: Feris, a longbow(wo)man, Lenora, a zeppelin-pilot Pirate, and Goliath, an end-game unit on par with Eurabatres and the other dragons. They are, however, blocked entirely from the Machinarum hero, Boris.
A few details:

Goliath:

Melee Unit
300 Hammers
Requires Alchemy and Mithril Working
28 :strength:
9 Ranged :strength:, 50% ranged damage limit
4 Movement
1 Range
2 First Strikes
No Defense Bonus
Ignores Terrain Movement Cost
Starts with :

Hero
Magic Immune
Mechanical

Refined Mana Affinity


Resident Machine Spirit

20% chance to grant Machine Spirit each turn.

50% chance of wearing off.
+1 Movement
+1 Range
+20% Collateral
+1 :strength:
Suffers 25% less Collateral





Monstrous Creature (From Warkirby's Monstrous Creatures Module)

Flat terrain movement cost (can't use roads, but isn't slowed by forests/hills either)
Ignores terrain defence on attack
Doesn't recieve defensive bonuses
Causes Collateral Damage. Up to 6 targets, with no damage limit. Can kill!
+25% vs Melee
-25% vs Archery units
-50% vs Siege Weapons
+25% City defence
Immune to collateral damage
+1 visibility range
50% poison resistance





Can use the Siege Configuration ability.

3 turn delay
Grants the Siege Configuration promotion.

Changes UnitCombat to Siege
-14 Attack :strength:, -7 Defense :strength:
+7 Ranged :strength:
+50% Ranged Damage Limit, to a total of 100%
+90% Collateral Damage
+5 Collateral Targets
-1 Movement
+1 Range
+50% City Bombard
-2 First Strikes
+5 City Defense when stationed in a city.
Allows Melee Configuration ability.

3 turn delay.
Removes the Siege Configuration promotion.











Vulture (Immortal UU):

Melee Unit
280 Hammers
Requires Divine Essence
6 Attack :strength:, 9 Defensive :strength:
5 Ranged :strength:, 50% limit
Refined Mana Affinity
2 Movement
1 Range
Starts with Fear, Magic Immune
Not Immortal, directly buildable.





Zeppelin (Man-o-War UU):

Requires Astronomy and Alchemy
300 Hammers
8 :strength:
9 Ranged :strength:
5 Movement
2 Range
2 Cargo
Move Impassable
Explore Rival Territory
Flat Movement Costs
30% chance to Withdraw
10% Bombardment
Refined Mana Affinity





Lenora:

Requires Astronomy
375 Hammers
13 :strength:
9 Ranged :strength:
6 Movement
2 Range
Move Impassable
Explore Rival Territory
Flat Movement Costs
40% chance to Withdraw
10% Bombardment
Refined Mana Affinity
Has the "Letter of Marque" ability.

Grants Hidden Nationality to all Naval units. Have fun with your pirate fleet of Blimps and Zeppelins.












New Religion - The Ordo Machinarum.

Automatically founded by the Mechanos, this religion does not spread on it's own, and will generally only be adopted by the Mechanos and the Dwarves. Same improvement art as RoK.
Hero: Boris. 6 strength, can use weapons. Lacks hero, but is immortal. Requires Writing.
Religious Units:

Mortar - Requires Mathematics. Strong Siege unit.
Steam Tank - Requires Blasting Powder.
Adeptus - Priest. Requires Writing/Clock Tower. No other disciple unit, except for Mechanos.


Temple - Clock Tower.
Shrine - Steamworks.


Grigori Adventurer Spawning system!

The Adventurer GP points have been removed completely. Instead, they now rely on a Scion-esque spawning sytem, with bonuses for all buildings that originally granted gp points and a bonus for the Apprenticeship civic.
With the new system, all adventurers spawn in the capital. This allows me to show a spawn chance, as with the Scions, and it also conveniently drops them off in the city most likely to have training buildings.


Master Siegesmith! Available with Construction, but most of the promotions require a more advanced tech or resource.


These are almost entirely by Milaga, with a few by Vermicious Knid thrown in.

Only one shot promotion may be selected at a time.

Grapeshot

UnitClass Cannon-only
2 extra Collateral Targets.
+15% vs Mounted and Melee
-50% Bombard rate.
Requires Gunpowder
60 Gold


Canister Shot

UnitClass Cannon-only
+40% Collateral Damage.
+1 Strength
Requires Gunpowder
60 Gold


Sighted Shot

+1 Range
-25% Strength
100 Gold


Plague Infested Shot

UnitClass Catapult-only
Requires Evil
Requires Sheaim or Infernal or Balseraphs or Legion of D'Tesh civilization
0.50 Unhealth in enemy cities within 1 tile
+10% ranged damage limit
+10% collateral damage limit
Passes the Diseased promotion to enemy combatants
30 Gold


Blackblood Shot

UnitClass Catapult-only
Requires Scions of Patria civilization
Requires a Spirit Mill in the city
+1 ranged attack
+5% ranged damage limit
+10% collateral damage limit
Passes the Blackblood promotion to enemy combatants
50 Gold


Flaming Shot

+5% bombard per turn
+1 Fire Strength
+50% forest attack
+50% naval units
Requires Smelting
50 Gold


Explosive Shot (designed for civs that can't build cannons)

UnitClass Catapult-only
+15% bombard per turn
+2 Strength
+25% city attack
+1 ranged attack
+5% ranged damage limit
Requires Blasting Powder
120 Gold





General promotions. If they can't be used by cannons/catapults they'll be listed.:


Well-Trained

Blitz
100 Gold


Fine Craftsmanship

+10% Strength
0-1 extra first strike
Requires Construction
Removed if Excellent Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
30 Gold


Excellent Craftsmanship

+20% Strength
1 extra first strike
Requires Engineering
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
40 Gold


Superior Craftsmanship

+30% Strength
1-2 extra first strikes
+20% city attack
Requires Mithril Working
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Excellent Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
80 Gold


Artisan Crafted

Requires Khazad or Luchuirp or Mechanos civilization
+40% Strength
2-3 extra first strikes
+30% city attack
+20% defense
Requires Machinery
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Excellent Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship promotion is taken
120 Gold


Improved Machinery

Requires Khazad civilization
+1 range
Requires Optics
Requires Trebuchet
50 Gold


Artillery

Requires Khazad civilization
+1 range
Requires Astronomy
Requires Dwarven Cannon
100 Gold


Improved Accuracy

+1 ranged attack
+10% ranged attack limit
Requires Optics
80 Gold


Deadeye Crew

Requires Khazad or Mechanos civilization
+1 ranged attack
+10% ranged attack limit
1 first strike
Requires Guilds
180 Gold


Point Defense System

Requires Khazad or Mechanos civilization
+100% defensive strength
+25% hill defense
Requires Iron Working
40 Gold


Doubletime Team

Requires Khazad or Mechanos or Austrin or Hippus civilization
+1Movement
+1 terrain cost
-50%Strength
Requires Horseback Riding
40 Gold


Resident Machine Spirit

Requires Mechanos civilization
Randomly grants the Machine Spirit promotion (20% turn)
Requires Arcane Lore
200 Gold






Theocracy has been significantly reworked, after an idea by Shatner.

+3 :) with the state religion, +1 :mad: per non-state. +10% :gold:, -25% :science:, as well as applying the Zealotry promotion to all Disciple units.
Zealotry: 1 :gold: extra support cost, heal while moving, 50% upgrade discount, 20% city attack, and allows a 1-turn Inquisition and the Incite Fervor ability.
Incite Fervor - 3 turn casting time, requires the state religion in the city. Reduces pop by 3, causes unhappiness like whipping, and spawns three low-level religious units, depending on your religion. Thinking of allowing the Scions to spawn their Legate UU, and the Mechanos to spawn their Adeptus UU.
This would allow theocracy civs to rapidly mobilize an army of disciple units at the cost of their population/happiness AND allow those disciple units to become an effective mob. At the very least, it would be different, interesting and solidly change the role of Theocracy.


All of Warkirby's units will be merged in, as well as his Monstrous Creatures mod.... Should make balancing the Mechanos Hero, Goliath, a bit easier.
Thanks to Ahwaric, ALL unique units and buildings will now show in the Civilization screen in the Pedia, including those that do not directly replace any others. Heros, special units, etc.
Several easter eggs. First person to find them all, will be able to request a new feature. I WILL implement one of their requests, but may work with them to find one we both like. ;)


Malakim+ - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301725
Doviello+ - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317945
Minor Leaders - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322643

The FFPlus Team

Valkrionn- The Hamster King
Vermicious Knid- The Mad Tweaker


Important Contributors (IE, people I've stolen from. ;))

Ahwaric - Creator of the Mechanos, Pedia fixes, lots of art, and probably a few things I'm forgetting. :goodjob:
Mailbox - The Legion of D'tesh
Deon - Original implementation for the Malakim+, and various artwork.
Iceciro - Various pedia entries and stolen ideas. :p
Shatner - Inspiration for the Khazad Auditor UU, and the man behind the Theocracy changes.
The_Coyote - Camel rider artwork.
MrUnderhill - Dervish unit, and the experience share code for the Doviello.
Warkirby - Many, many ideas, the Monstrous Creature changes, and some truly excellent art. :goodjob:
Walter Hawkwood - Buildings imported from Kohan 2.
Deadliver - Bringing up the Wild Mana mod. Without him, it wouldn't exist. :lol:
Milaga - Helped balance the Mechanos, and contributed many ideas.
FlameRaven - Artist on deviantART.
Akira Yamaoka(Silent Hill 4) - Promise(Reprise), Theme(Piano), Never Forgive Me Never Forget Me, Tears of Pain
9 Inch Nails(Silent Hill 4) - The Frail
Anyone I've missed. :crazyeye:

Lastly, but certainly not least, I'd like to thank the Fall Further team for making a great mod, and helping me with my (many) questions. :goodjob:

Doviello Plus


In my opinion, the Doviello are far too similiar to the Clan. With that in mind, I have set out to 'improve' them.



New Gameplay Mechanics:
Animal Spawning: Animals will spawn in each city, modified by the cities population.

It is an initial chance of 4%, reduced by .4% for each population point over 1, meaning a city with pop 11 will not spawn any animals. This keeps them to your borders where there are less people, and fits mechanically as it's a built in spawn control.
The spawn chance can be increased in two ways: Adopting the Doviello-only Membership civic 'Council of the Wilds' will double the chance, and following the Fellowship of the Leaves will increase it by 50%. Following both will result in an initial chance of 12%, and animals will continue to spawn until pop 31 rather than 11.
Initially, all that will spawn are Wolves. As you gain new techs, you'll be able to build a few National Wonders, upon completion of which new animals will be allowed to spawn.


Kindred Spirits: All units built in a Den city will start with a Kindred Spirit promotion. These promotions are initially weak, but allow a second, more powerful promotion once other requirements are met.

Bear - March - Strong (Requires Combat 4).
Wolf - 2 First Strikes - 1 Movement (Requires Drill 3).
Lion - Courage - Mesmerize Animal (Requires Level 5).
Griffin - Extra Sight - Move Impassable (Requires Combat 2/Drill 2).
Stag - Magic Resistance/Double movement in Forest - Magic Immune (Requires Combat 5).
Mammoth - 20% more xp from combat - Can Ride Mammoths (Requires Level 4).


Duel System:

Doviello units are now able to duel, excluding settlers, naval units, animals and workers. Takes actual combat odds into account, but just as in combat even a unit with 99.5% combat odds can lose.
In order to duel, just bring at least two eligible units into a stack. Select the unit you'd like to be the Challenger, and use the 'Issue Challenge' ability, granting the 'Challenger' promotion to the unit, with a 1 turn duration. Then, select the unit you'd like to be the Defender, and use the 'Accept Challenge' ability. The 'Challenger' promotion blocks any other unit from using 'Issue Challenge', and allows 'Accept Challenge'.
Before the combat is taken into account, there is a 10% chance for the duel to be a draw, in which case both units are severely injured, and a 3% chance for both units to die. In the event of a tie, each unit gains 10% of the other's xp.
If the duel does not end in a tie or death, one unit WILL die. However, the other gains 50% of the killed units xp, with a bonus of 2xp in case they are fresh units.


Mr. Underhills experience share code:

New Doviello units inherit XP from your existing army, but with diminishing returns so as to discourage swarming. Basically, a small, highly promoted pack is better than a swarm, better differentiating the Doviello and the Clan. It works very well combined with the Duel system, and the Scavenger promotion.


Scavenger promotion - Gained after successful combat with a living enemy.

Promotion expires in 5 turns.
Unit costs no maintenance.
Does not cause War Weariness.
Does not cost military support.
Heals an extra 5%/5%/5% in Friendly/Neutral/Enemy territory.


Looting - Any unit with the Doviello version of the 'Winterborn' racial promotion is now able to steal weapons from defeated enemies. At the moment, this includes:

Bronze/Iron/Mithril Weapons
Enchanted Blade




Leaders:



Charadon becomes Aggressive/Warlord, loses Barbarian.

Warlord Trait from Fall Flat- doubles the production speed of all training buildings, and increases experience gained from combat for Melee, Recon, and Archery units.


Mahala becomes Neutral, Financial/Ingenuity/Raiders, and gets another makeover. (Courtesy Opera.)
Baron Duin Halfmorn is now a Doviello leader. While he is in game, no civilization can build him. In compensation, the Baron recieves a unique hero, Varulv, at Feral Bond.

Evil, Agnostic/Lycanthropic. Favourite civic is slavery, wonder is Form of the Titan, the same as all other Doviello Leaders.



Lycanthropic allows units to ignore terrain costs, and allows you to promote to Cannibalism after Combat 2, same as Undead. Yes, this means ALL Doviello units can gain Cannibalism under Duin.





New/Changed Units:



Lucian - Lucian gains 'Battle-Hardened'. Lesser version of Hero.

0.5 experience per turn, to a max of 50.
10% chance to avoid bad lair results. (Hero has 25%)
10% chance to resist spells. (Hero is 20%)
Allows Heroic Strength/Defense 1, does NOT allow the second level.


Varulv - New Werewolf hero, available only to Duin. Requires Feral Bond, same stats as the Baron.

Can use the Feral Howl ability every 15 turns, enraging all recon units on the tile for 10 turns and allowing them to become Blooded Werewolves if successful in combat.


Bear Rider - horse archer UU. No ranged attack, higher strength.

8:strength: rather than 6, no ranged attack, no defensive strikes. Does not require Archery.


Stag - Stag Copse is able to be constructed at KotE.

Starts with Body I and Nature I. Will spawn in Forests for the Animal Civilization.


Elk - Replaces the Stag with Priesthood. Strength 5 Beast.

Starts with Body I, Body 2, Nature I, Nature 2, Creation 2, Channeling 2, and Divine. Cannot gain any additional spell spheres, but will ALWAYS gain your state religion, allowing it to act as a priest.


Mammoth - Mammoth Den is available with Horseback Riding.

Elephant clone, can be upgraded to Mammoth Rider. Begins with Winterborn, is available to the Animal civilization.


Mammoth Rider artwork brought in.

1:strength: more than War Elephants, Amurite model is available to everyone. Illians and Doviello have unique art. Mammoth Riders have Winterborn.


Lion Pride - 6 :strength:, is formed like a Wolf Pack. Max strength of 12. Can create a Lion Den, reverting to the Animal Civilization.
Sabretooth - 5 :str:, replaces the Lion with Iron Working. Will spawn for the Animal Civilization in Tundra and Snow.
Sabretooth Pride - 8 :str:, is formed like a Wolf Pack. Max strength of 16. Can create a Sabretooth Den, reverting to the Animal Civilization.
Griffon Flight - 6 :strength:, is formed like a Wolf Pack. Max strength of 15. Can create a Griffon Weyr, reverting to the Animal Civilization.
Hippogriff - Same stats as the Griffon. One cargo space. Replaces the Griffon with Stirrups. Can spawn for the Animal Civilization anywhere the Griffon can. Model by Warkirby.
Hippogriff Flight - Same stats as the Griffon Flight. Two cargo. Max strength of 15. Can create a Hippogriff Weyr, reverting to the Animal Civilization.
Bear Pack - 7 :strength:, is formed like a Wolf Pack. Max strength of 18. Can create a Bear Den, reverting to the Animal Civilization.
Cave Bear - Massive 9 :str: Beast. Replaces the Bear with Divine Essence.
Cave Bear Pack - 12 :strength:, is formed like a Wolf Pack. Max strength of 27. Can create a Cave Bear Den, reverting to the Animal Civilization.



Spells and Civics:


Worldspell: Wild Hunt was a great worldspell, but is too powerful with the new spawn system.

Call of the Wild: Spawns a new animal for each animal unit you control, and the new unit has a 20% chance to gain any promotion the parent unit possesses.


Civic: 'Council of the Wilds', Doviello-only Membership civic. Grants Heroic Strength 1 to all animal units, and doubles the spawn rate at the cost of not running Undercouncil.
Mezmerize Animal: Now allows the capture of wild animals regardless of your relations with them. This fix also applies to the Animal Kindred ability granted by the 'Mark of the Lion' promotion.




Resources and Buildings:



Bison resource:

Northern cows. Visible to everyone. Should break up some of the endless amounts of Arctic Deer. Doviello gain a flavourstart preference for them.


Wolf Den - Rolled into the Doviello Palace.

Grants a 'Mark of the Wolf' promotion to all units built in the city.


Lion Den - Available with Mining.

Grants a 'Mark of the Lion' promotion to all units built in the city, and allows Lions to spawn.


Bear Den - Available with Smelting.

Grants a 'Mark of the Bear' promotion to all units built in the city, and allows Bears to spawn.


Mammoth Den - Available with Horseback Riding.

Grants a 'Mark of the Mammoth' promotion to all units built in the city, and allows Mammoths to spawn.


Griffon Weyr - Available with Animal Handling.

Grants a 'Mark of the Griffin' promotion to all units built in the city, and allows Griffons to spawn.


Stag Copse - Available with Knowledge of the Ether

Grants a 'Mark of the Stag' promotion to all units built in the city, and allows Stags to spawn.




That SHOULD be all the changes... Can't be sure of course, lots of little things. All changes are documented in a 'Doviello+' Concept section in the 'pedia.



Malakim Plus

I had greatly enjoyed Deon's Malakim+ mod, as it added a quite a bit of flavor and gave the Malakim an excellent reason to stick to deserts. Dunespeak helps with that but still doesn't allow the Malakim to grow, so I have updated and rereleased his mod. Most of the documentation is copied from the old thread, new will be added as I add to it.
==================================================
New or Rebalanced Spells:Scorch: Mostly part of Fall Further now.



Scorch terraforms all terrain.Ice -> Tundra -> Plains -> Desert
Marsh -> Grass -> Plains -> Desert
Scorching a Plains tile containing a feature will clear the feature, and has a chance to create scrubs based on the feature.

Forest/New Forest- 33% chance
Jungle- 25% chance
Ancient Forest- 20% chance
Burnt Forest- Destroyed, no chance for scrub
Haunted Lands- Unaffected.




Casting Scorch while in a flammable feature has a chance to flush out a defender.

A forest has a chance of spawning an Animal defender, ranging from a common Wolf to a Satyr.
A Jungle has a chance to spawn a Barbarian Goblin or Lizard, ranging from a simple Goblin to a Lizard Ranger or Assassin.
A Burnt Forest has a high chance of spawning a Demon Mistform that will last 5 turns.
An Ancient Forest will always spawn a Demon Treant that will last 5 turns.




Scorching a riverside plains tile will create a floodplain, but it will take several turns to spawn.
Lightbringers now have access to a unique version of the Scorch spell in order to terraform Malakim lands. Takes 3 turns to cast.



Lugus' Gift:Malakim Adepts can now use the "Lugus' Gift" spell, allowing them to create an Oasis. Can not be cast within 5 tiles of any other Oasis, whether natural or magical. Requires the ring of tiles immediately surrounding it to be desert, coast, or ocean. Requires the sacrifice of the caster.
Spring/Vitalize:Malakim are blocked from casting either Spring or Vitalize within one tile of an Oasis, either natural or magical. Other civilizations are unaffected.

Spring and Vitalize can now be cast on Floodplains, but they will be destroyed in the process.Desert Knowledge:Captured Workers have access to a unique 'Desert Knowledge' spell, converting them to Bedouins. This should fix the issue with them building roads rather than Caravan Routes. Slaves do not have access to the spell, so captured Lizard workers will not convert.Unit and Promotion Changes:
Dervish: Part of Fall Further now.Malakim Shadow UU



9/8 Str
+1 Fire damage
+1 Sun mana affinity
1 move
Can become invisible at will in desert.



Upgrades from lvl 6 Assassin OR lvl 6 Champion after researching Guilds, National limit of 4.

"Gods Damn the Malakim, and their bastard Dervishes!

I was part of an expedition deep into Malakim lands... All went well until we camped. The very instant we relaxed, the Dervishes were upon us. They fight like Demons, I tell you!

Of the entire unit, only I made it out alive... Not because I beat them, no. They wanted me to spread their myth, and spread it I shall." - Unknown Bloodpet
Unlike the typical Shadow, the Dervish does not require you to worship Esus. In addition, it is stronger, with Fire damage rather than poison and the potential for vast strength gain through a Sun mana affinity. In exchange for this power, the Dervish is tied to the Desert, unable to become invisible in any other terrain, and must be upgraded from a level 6 Assassin or Champion.

Anubite: Part of Fall Further now.Malakim Berserker UU
Art by Deon, Lore and Stats by Iceciro.


9 Strength(Offense and Defense)
2-5 First Strikes
35% Withdrawl Chance
Causes Collateral Damage
Access to Bronze/Iron/Mithril weapons.
2 Movement Points.




Anubites are one of the last vestiges of Malakim civilization from the days before Varn Gosam and the worship of Lugus. Cloaked in the shadows of the harsh desert night, an Anubite is dedicated to two things - the worship of the Malakim's long-forgotten pagan gods, and the defense of her peoples in the most savage manner possible. While other troops may wish to stand and fight, the Anubites charge in with their claw-like blades, carving up enemy units and dissapearing again into the deserts.


Anubites replace Berserkers for the Malakim. While doing less overall damage they have a much better defensive rating, and have a high withdrawl rate and many first strikes, allowing them to strike repeatedly, wearing down any enemy foolish enough to come near Malakim lands, or lands the Malakim have decided will be theirs soon. Remember that in the deserts, the dunespeak ability gives Anubites the ability to heal on the move and immunity from enemy first strikes, allowing them to strike true and repeatedly.
Bedouin:Malakim worker UU.



Can establish Caravan Route.
Can build Bedouin Sit.



Mounted Units:Malakim Horsemen and Knights initially lose all bonuses, and start with one movement. Then, depending on which Stable the city has built, and which Mount resources are available, the unit will have access to one of two promotions.Possession of Horses grant access to the Horse Rider/Knight promotion while in a city with a Stable. This restores the traditional 40% bonus vs Archery, increases movement by one, and changes the artstyle to that of a Horse Cavalry unit. It also reduces movement by one inside deserts and blocks access to the Dunespeak promotion.Possession of Camels grant access to the Camel Rider/Knight promotion while in a city with a Camel Stable, which grants a 40% bonus vs Mounted, sets the artstyle to that of the new Camel units, and increases withdrawal rate in desert.Wyrmfisher:Kuriotate UU, does not replace Workboat.



National Unit, limit of 1
Is not sacrificed when building Fishing Boats.
45 Hammers rather than 30.
Unable to explore new territory.
Flying.
Requires Knowledge of the Ether as well as Fishing



No more sacrificing one of your precious cities in order to gain seafood!

"A revolutionary design by the greatest scientific mind amongst the Kuriotates, the most advanced Dwarvish materials available, and constant application of Fire and Air magics... A technology capable of revolutionizing communication, travel, and warfare... Being used to FISH?!?" - Disgruntled Taxpayer.
The Wyrmfisher requires both Fishing and Knowledge of the Ether, but in return is able to fly and is not sacrificed in order to create Fishing Boats. Keep in mind, this unit is unable to explore new territory; It is intended solely as a method for the Kuriotates to connect Sea Food resources without sacrificing a city's production capabilities.
Dunespeak:



Upkeep discounts removed.
Can only see invisible animals, rather than all invisible units.



Desert Stealth: Part of Fall Further now.



+25% workrate in Desert. Balances out the negative on the tile.
Invisibility



Only available to Malakim Workers.
Conviction:




+1 Strength/Defense
Requires the Disciple unitclass.



Can only be gained through the 'Mirrored Pylon' building.
Improvements, Features, Resources, and Buildings:Resplendent Minaret:
Grants +1 :), creates a 'Mirrored Pylon' building in every city.
Mirrored Pylon:Allows 1 Priest Specialist, grants the 'Enlightened' promotion to all Disciple units built in the city. Applied to units in the city.

What is Enlightenment, my son? There are many definitions, take your pick.

"The strength needed to do what must be done, no matter the cost to yourself." -From the Code of Junil

"The wisdom to forgive those who have transgressed, and show mercy to those who have earned it." -From the Empyrean

"The virtues of the Earthmother: hard work, diligence, perseverance." -From the Tablets of Bambur

"To see the world as it is, and accept both its glories and terrors as equally necessary." -From the Song of Autumn

"The knowledge of all the wonderful little dark nooks and crannies in men's hearts... including, of course, your own." -From the Council of Esus

"To see the world, not covered in all the little lies men tell themselves in order to preserve their precious 'sanity,' but as it truly is." -From the Necronomicon

"The strength needed to do what must be done, no matter the cost to others." -From the Ashen Veil
Citadel of Light:The Citadel of Light is now a Malakim-only Citadel upgrade. This should actually help the AI as much as the player, as it will build forts everywhere in the desert... Now, those forts will defend themselves.



Any enemy unit that comes within one tile will be blasted by a Pillar of Fire. It does an average of 10% damage, with a max of 40%.
Human players must have a unit occupying the Citadel. AI players are exempt from this atm.
60% defense, 25% heal rate, and +3 visibility. These stats may change.



Camels:New Camel resource available in deserts. Only visible to the Malakim, and a requirement for their Camel Riders. Malakim gain a flavourstart bonus for Camels. Same yields as the Horse resource.
Oases:Malakim now have Civilization Specific Oasis yields, 5:food: 3:commerce: rather than 3:food: 2:commerce:. Improvements can now be constructed on top of Oases.Bedouin Improvements: Part of Fall Further now.Bedouin Sits can be constructed by a Bedouin unit at a cost of 15 :gold: on desert tiles. Can NOT be constructed on Flood Plains. Will upgrade to a Bedouin Camp, then Gathering, and finally Village, in 15/30/60 turns respectively. This is half again the time required for Cottages to upgrade.

Current Yields:Bedouin Improvements vs Cottage Improvements

Cottage- 1:commerce:
Hamlet- 2:commerce:
Village- 3:commerce:, +1 at Taxation
Town- 4:commerce:, +1 at Taxation

Bedouin Sit- 1:commerce: (Costs 15 :gold:)
Bedouin Camp- 1:commerce: 1:food:
Bedouin Gathering- 2:commerce: 2:food:
Bedouin Village- 3:commerce: 2:food:, +1:food: at SanitationCamel StableThe Camel Stable allows a city to make use of Camels rather than Horses.

It allows Mounted units access to the Camel Rider promotions, and cannot be built in the same city as a Stable.Caravan Route:Malakim desert road. Adds 1 :commerce:.

All roads in Malakim territory will slowly become Caravan Routes.Tech, Trait, and Event Changes:New Malakim only event.
Activated once a unit enters the Mirror of Heaven.



There is nothing we can do here. (Allows you to leave and come back later, useful if you do not meet the requirements for the last option.)
A holy man, inspired by this sacred place, has offered to join our cause. (Gain a Heroic Lightbringer.)
Our people will benefit from the relics recovered from this site. (Creates a 'Resplendent Minaret' in your capital, requires 'Good' alignment.)





'Dunespeakers' Tech:Allows construction of the Bedouin improvement line, and reveals the Camel resource.'Merchant' trait: Part of Fall Further now.Malakim Civtrait.



+1 :health: in each city.
+15% :commerce:.
+50 Starting Gold.



Varn's Traits:Varn is now Spiritual/Charismatic/Adaptive.
Originally, Merchant was Varn's permanent trait. With it set to a civtrait now, he regains Spiritual as his permanent trait, and Charismatic becomes his secondary trait to offset the removal of Merchant's happiness bonus.




Wild Mana


This is an updated version of Orlanth's Crystalized Mana:Conquerable Nodes mod.

Now part of FFPlus.


Rather than being found as generic mana crystals that can be developed into whatever type of node you want, you will come across deposits of specific Mana types (ie Air Mana, Life Mana, Spirit Mana etc) and will have to develop your strategies around that. You will still need to research the appropriate tech and have an Adept create a node as usual. If you manage to reach Metamagic II, you can still Dispel any node back into raw mana which can be shaped however you like, making Metamagic a much more important part of the game.



All changes, aside from the minor yields granted to the mana, are now handled via the "Wild Mana" game options.

Wild Mana - Without this option, none of the others will work. Spawns extra mana, and will convert approximately half of the existing mana to the various types of mana.
Feral Mana - Requires Wild Mana. Will convert nearly all mana.
Mana Guardians - Will spawn a Held defender on all typed manas. Generally these are strong, but cannot leave the tile.


There is more mana overall than the default game; you will have access to a good variety of magics but will be unable to fully bend them to your whim until you reach Sorcery and secure access to a Metamagic node. The abundance of each type scales with the number of civs, and there is also a random component; there will generally be at least one of each mana type somewhere on every map.
A fair amount of the original raw "colorless" mana crystals can still be found, which can be freely shaped by the first to bind them to a node. They are distributed evenly over wide areas so you will have a good chance at securing at least one, allowing you some flexibility early on (choose carefully..)
The AI has been made more willing to trade most mana resources, for the right price.
Mana types will have a 1 in 3 chance to spawn powerful defenders on game start. The defenders are held, but are still pretty nasty. If you want to remove the defenders, open CvEventManager.py in a text editor and search for "Mana Defender", and delete the line it's on.







Current defenders are as follows:




Wild Air - Air Elemental - Demon Civ
Wild Body - Flesh Golem - Demon Civ
Wild Chaos - Chaos Marauder - Demon Civ
Wild Death - Lich - Demon Civ
Wild Earth - Earth Elemental - Demon Civ
Wild Enchantment - Wood Golem - Orc Civ
Wild Entropy - Tar Demon - Demon Civ
Wild Fire - Fire Elemental - Demon Civ
Wild Law - Einherjar - Orc Civ
Wild Life - Angel - Orc Civ
Wild Metamagic - Thade - Demon Civ
Wild Mind - Psion - Demon Civ
Wild Nature - Guardian Vine - Animal Civ
Wild Shadow - Spectre - Demon Civ
Wild Spirit - Monk - Orc Civ
Wild Sun - Aurealis - Orc Civ
Wild Water - Water Elemental - Demon Civ
Wild Creation - Elk - Animal Civ
Wild Force - Dragon Slayer - Orc Civ
Wild Dimensional - 6:str: Gnosling - Demon Civ
Wild Ice - Ice Elemental - Orc Civ

Reserved. Collapsed all of the entries.

Reserved for future needs.

Reserved for later use.

Hey Valkrionn, ever since I installed your Doviello plus I cannot even see the unit promotions in the World Builder. Any ideas before I simply reinstall FF?

None whatsoever.... I actually had the same issue awhile back with FF, but patching up got rid of it.

None whatsoever.... I actually had the same issue awhile back with FF, but patching up got rid of it.

Hmm, i think i patched to N, I will repatch and check then reinstall +plus+

where do the hippogriff and sabre-toothed tigre fit in?

Once I have them both, they'll be upgrades to the standard lion/griffin, available at later techs. Keeps the animals useful longer.

Ugh. The combined installer is 10.1 MB. .1 too large to host on the site.... Got to find a file host before I can upload it.

What should I do in order to play this Modmod?
I simple extract the files in FfH, but it doesn’t work.


Anyway, congratulations for the new ideas. I really want play it.

Install FfH, patch to Z, install FF, patch to N, and then extract this folder into the FF directory... I'll have an installer up soon so it'll copy FF and then install itself, but it's too large to upload here. Waiting for FileFront to approve the file. ;)

What should I do in order to play this Modmod?
I simple extract the files in FfH, but it doesn’t work.


They actually go into the FF directory, not FfH. But your best bet is to dload the newest version of each separately for the included installers, at least until Valkrionn manages to get the combined installer uploaded. That way you don't have to worry about overwriting anything manually. If you do this, make sure you get the Doviello+ version that is compatible with Malakim+.

Also, make sure you go into your FF ini file and change modular loading to 1. I'm honestly not sure if this is still necessary, but it was before and I haven't seen anything personally that says it isn't still so.

Hopefully this saves you some time/trouble. :D Hopefully I'm not just confusing and making things harder when I try to save Valk time replying.

EDIT: Sigh. Ninja-ed :D

Two points: Malakim+ and Doviello+ are mutually exclusive. FFPlus is the replacement for the Malakim+ compatible file. :lol: And Modular loading is completely unnecessary now, unless you're using a module by someone else... Doviello+ is essentially done, so I made it non-modular.

Does Baron really have to be Agnostic? It seems to me there are so many Agnostic leaders in FF already, and as has been pointed out by someone else, denying the existence of the gods in Erebus is rather a silly thing...

Honestly, yes. It's not so much that he denies they exist, but rather, won't serve those who caused him to be reborn with the curse of Lycanthropy... And really, the ability to get Cannibalize as the Doviello is POWERFUL. Balanced it by disallowing any religions, which also nerfs his animal spawn rate.

While the FfH pedia entry seems to say that he got lycanthropy was a curse applied when he was resurrected, the AoI pedia seems to say that came from a long line of werewolf warlords in the Age of Magic who had managed to keep their condition a secret for generations. If I had to guess, I'd say that the condition dates back to an experiment by Kezef rather than to a curse from the gods. I could actually see the House of Halfmorn being the sons of Kezef. I suppose lycanthropy could had started as a curse placed on Kezef as a punishment for the horrors he chose to create.

True. I'm just trying to rationalize a balance decision. :lol:

double post

That makes sense I guess. I'm not sure if it's a big penalty though - agnosticism does pay off nicely in FFH with the lack of religion diplomacy modifiers. Aside from that, after my recent game, I have a small issue with FoL. I've never tried it before as a non-elven race, and man are ancient forests annoying for the wild Doviello. It takes FOREVER to chop, making it almost a bane in itself. Baron might be lucky in not being allowed to adopt it. I feel bad now for the AI civs that end up stuck with it.

What is Kindred Spirits (which I presume is the game name for Mesmerize Animal?) supposed to do exactly, btw? Thought it was for charming wild animals, but the button never lights up for me, even standing right on top of them. Do you have to be at war with them or something?

And lastly, any chance of an "animal trainer" type building to give packs some xp while they sit in town waiting for new animals to pop up?

That makes sense I guess. I'm not sure if it's a big penalty though - agnosticism does pay off nicely in FFH with the lack of religion diplomacy modifiers. Aside from that, after my recent game, I have a small issue with FoL. I've never tried it before as a non-elven race, and man are ancient forests annoying for the wild Doviello. It takes FOREVER to chop, making it almost a bane in itself. Baron might be lucky in not being allowed to adopt it. I feel bad now for the AI civs that end up stuck with it.

Personally, when I play them I don't build improvements so it's not a big deal to me. :lol:


What is Kindred Spirits (which I presume is the game name for Mesmerize Animal?) supposed to do exactly, btw? Thought it was for charming wild animals, but the button never lights up for me, even standing right on top of them. Do you have to be at war with them or something?

Honestly, I haven't even tested it. It directs to the Mesmerize Animal python, so I did nothing but allow it for a promotion rather than unit... I'll have to look at it.


And lastly, any chance of an "animal trainer" type building to give packs some xp while they sit in town waiting for new animals to pop up?

That could be interesting... I'll think about it.

Ugh. How long does it take freaking Filefront to approve a file? :wallbash:

WOOT! Filefront has finally approved the file. The download now links to it, so you can go get the installer now. :goodjob:

Alright, I'll be putting out a patch shortly..... Fixes the art for some promotions, makes another unbuyable as it should be, and fixes the issue where the Baron can build himself. I'll also be bundling Mailbox's Legion of D'tesh with it, mostly because I want to play it myself so I've gotta merge it in regardless. :lol: Already asked his permission to do it. :goodjob:

Patch A is out. Includes new animal units for the Doviello, quite a few bug fixes, and Mailbox's Legion of D'Tesh civilization. :goodjob:

New civ? Interesting. I will try this, I don't like my actual game with the Malakim :goodjob:
(btw, nice new avatar ;))

haha, I had to change it. It's too awesome to not.

The Legion is interesting..... Haven't played through it completely yet, but it's basically the warmongers that most think of when they think undead. So the Anti-Scions haha.

Is FFPlus compatible with wild mana?

I want to play with the legion of Dtesh, but wild mana also looks fun.

Not currently, but it will be later today... Not home or I'd update it real quick. :lol:

Attached an updated Wild Mana to the 5th post.

Released a small patch, just includes Mailbox's newest version of the D'tesh. Already updated Wild Mana to go with it as well.

New version of the Wild Mana mod on the fifth post. Absolutely requires FFPlus now, sorry. The 'Wild Mana' game option is in, and working, so the installer includes a dll.

cool mod.. :)

Seems to have broken my hawks though.. Get a CTD every time I try to recon since I installed this mod. I've got a memory dump and a savefile to upload if you want me to.

cool mod.. :)

Seems to have broken my hawks though.. Get a CTD every time I try to recon since I installed this mod. I've got a memory dump and a savefile to upload if you want me to.

I get the same bug. I posted details and a save in the wild mana thread

That used to be a base FF problem that I think they fixed in the last patch. Maybe one of the changes undid the fix accidentally?

BTW the "Launch now" tries to load FallFurtherpluss folder, which does exist... I checked, it all installs to Malakim+. Don't think it affected anything though, launching now.

Checking on the hawks now...

And since I used the same installer program for all the mods, you may have to manually redirect the installation path to FFPlus, which is what it should install to.

Checking on the hawks now...

And since I used the same installer program for all the mods, you may have to manually redirect the installation path to FFPlus, which is what it should install to.

In Inno, select the top part that looks like "{EC405A32-6AAC-49C6-9D28-DE41E3D1852F}" (not the extra { at the front though), then use Tools>Generate GUID. It automatically tries to install the "same program" in the same place it did last time - you have to change that GUID so that it knows it's a different program...

Well so long as it doesn't harm anything I don't see why it matters other then as a aesthetic thing. :p I think I'm leaving it as is, I like the name "Malakim+" better anyways... I have like four "Fall further/fall flat" folders in there. :p

Which reminds me... If anyone says that the Doviello are underpowered NOW? They arn't playing them right. City states, massive amounts of 1 pop cities, and try to make sure you get the Guild of Hammers first so that you can put an engineer in each base... The wolves ALONE build up fast enough to do some DAMAGE to anyone dumb enough to attack... [I took out orthus with my first one by sacrificing a beastman first... It later went on to maxing out] then have maybe ONE city that you let grow past level one, your capital, to build the dens in. Since the dens are nation-wide spawning... It doesn't matter where they are built I've found, although you'll end up having one place with ALL the promos instead of spreading them out, but that works just fine with me. Then once they are all built, and you get some of the good nation-wide wonders, drop your pop back to 1 there too and just mass spam wealth or warriors ect, and ride the litteral WAVE of animals to victory. Then again, I'm using FoL and their unique council, so that might be the reason. :p Didn't get the FoL holy city, but I don't think I really needed it... did capture it in battle later though from the Svarts.

In Inno, select the top part that looks like "{EC405A32-6AAC-49C6-9D28-DE41E3D1852F}" (not the extra { at the front though), then use Tools>Generate GUID. It automatically tries to install the "same program" in the same place it did last time - you have to change that GUID so that it knows it's a different program...

Ahhhh... I knew there was something like that in there, just didn't know where :lol:. Stole your script from Fall Flat as it is. :p

Well so long as it doesn't harm anything I don't see why it matters other then as a aesthetic thing. :p I think I'm leaving it as is, I like the name "Malakim+" better anyways... I have like four "Fall further/fall flat" folders in there. :p

Which reminds me... If anyone says that the Doviello are underpowered NOW? They arn't playing them right. City states, massive amounts of 1 pop cities, and try to make sure you get the Guild of Hammers first so that you can put an engineer in each base... The wolves ALONE build up fast enough to do some DAMAGE to anyone dumb enough to attack... [I took out orthus with my first one by sacrificing a beastman first... It later went on to maxing out] then have maybe ONE city that you let grow past level one, your capital, to build the dens in. Since the dens are nation-wide spawning... It doesn't matter where they are built I've found, although you'll end up having one place with ALL the promos instead of spreading them out, but that works just fine with me. Then once they are all built, and you get some of the good nation-wide wonders, drop your pop back to 1 there too and just mass spam wealth or warriors ect, and ride the litteral WAVE of animals to victory. Then again, I'm using FoL and their unique council, so that might be the reason. :p Didn't get the FoL holy city, but I don't think I really needed it... did capture it in battle later though from the Svarts.

I tend to go with 6 medium-sized cities, and keep the rest small..... lets me have 6 cities producing units with the Kindred Spirits promotions, and hordes of animal packs to back them up. :goodjob:

Ahhhh... I knew there was something like that in there, just didn't know where :lol:. Stole your script from Fall Flat as it is. :p

The first time I installed Orbis, I accidentally overwrote my Fall Further install - simply because I'd copied the script directly and sent it to Ahwaric and he'd used the same GUID (so it installed to \Fall Further - the last place that program ID was installed). I made sure to change it myself before I posted it for Fall Flat though :D

What are these "soldiers" you speak of? I won the game without building more then one warrior [and later upgrading them] per city, pluss Lucian. Period. On diety.

True, I DID have ljosalfar allies that shared my religion and a common enemy to conquer early... But I ended up doing all the real conquest work. As ussual. :/

Hehe yes, using the animals exclusively is a completely valid strategy. Which is the way I wanted it to be. :goodjob:

Very small update on the downloads..... They'll install to the proper directories without you having to change the path manually. Thanks to Vehem for pointing out what I did wrong. :goodjob:

Just a minor issue, that I'm assuming was introduced with your small update an hour ago because no one else has mentioned it yet:

The install looks for "FF050" to copy files from, but the default folder name for Fall Further's install was "Fall Further 050". Easily dealt with by copying and renaming the Fall Further folder and trying the install again, but you still might want to fix it.

Woops, yeah missed that. Uploaded a version that works. Also updated Wild Mana with a new dll.... Hawk bug fixed.

After rereading Shatner's amazing Industry and Isolation: A Khazad Story, I couldn't help myself. I had to make an Auditor UU for the Khazad. :lol: All this module does is add the Auditor, which is an Axeman with Bounty Hunter.

Make sure Modular loading is ON if you want to use this. :lol:

Screw that noise, get your ass to making a Khazad+!!!
:p

haha Honestly, it's completely unnecessary. The Khazad are one of my favorite races as they are..... Only thing I'd change is maybe making Ingenuity a civtrait, but there's no real reason to do so.

Next patch will contain an updated Wild Mana, with mana affecting terrain/features/units around it, and an Adventurer Spawning system for the Grigori...... I mention this, because I'd like to ask which buildings should affect it, what the spawn rate should be, etc.

Edit: So long as I'm messing with the DLL for the option, I think I'll merge in Greyfox's Better Pedia mod as well.

Is it just me, or is D'tesh overpowered? All you have to do is use superior production to win a couple of early wars for slaves, and get KotE to remove the unhappyness and unhealthyness and have an uber city free to do whatever you want. Improving your land is simple, graveyard spam does wonders, and workers turn everything into deserts for more hammers and commerce. And thats BEFORE you get death manna to buff up your units. :mischief: Early wars become even easier with the 3 stooges.

Probably, but it's still an early release. It's thread is here, any balance ideas/suggestions/complaints would be best there... The author will be better able to keep track of it. :goodjob:

Yeah though they are one of those civs that's simultaneously over AND underpowered at the same time. :p

Very dependent on start, yeah...... If you're near another civ, you're golden. If you're isolated, you're in trouble.

Edit: So long as I'm messing with the DLL for the option, I think I'll merge in Greyfox's Better Pedia mod as well.I don't know if you looked at the files but it isn't really that hard to merge. Well, theoretically anyway. I tried with WinMerge and I've done the dll files quite easily. I gave up after however, in CvPediaMain.py I think, because it was annoying me and I didn't see the point of doing it anymore. Basically, I just wanted the What to build next? better popup to sort all those things you can build in late game. Anyway, it can't be bad to merge it ;)

The DLL isn't the bad part actually. It's the python, screensinterface. :lol:

Thought I'd post changes for the next patch.....

Confirmed:

Finished Wild Mana, with Mana affecting terrains/units/features around them
Grigori adventurer spawning system


Possible:

Remove the Doviello bonus yields, and add a new improvement, available to everyone, on tundra. Possibly ice. Thinking no more than 1:food: 2:hammers:... something minor, but buildable under forests like camps. Using the temple art from the newest Fantasy Pack.
Limit mana affects to the Wild Mana game option, and a new Magisterium civic? Seems like a fitting effect.
Merge in Greyfox's better pedia mod
Many small tweaks, some large ones. Surprises. :lol:
Very good possibility that I'll be stealing ideas from various other modmodmods. :lol:

Yeah, MainScreenInterface is a bastard of a file, and unfortunately it got a bit worse once I put my hands on it ;) Sorry bout that, but doesn't it look nice in game? ;)

Yeah, looks like I'm going to have to study the file to make sure I don't break anything. :lol: Since the same interface is used if FfH, maybe I can check how Cyther did it......

Remove the Doviello bonus yields, and add a new improvement, available to everyone, on tundra. Possibly ice. Thinking no more than 1:food: 2:hammers:... something minor, but buildable under forests like camps. Using the temple art from the newest Fantasy Pack.

How about instead of removing the Doviello bonus yields on tundra they get an extra :health: penalty in desert and jungle. Removing the bonus in tundra really steals some of their flavor and unique (well, Illian too) ability to survive in harsh, cold climes. Either that or they should get a bonus from the camps or possibly build them faster.

Not really, actually. The new improvement is buildable on Ice and Tundra, has a yield of 1:food: 1:hammers:, does not remove forest, and is able to discover Bison, Arctic Deer, and Fur.

Edit: Forgot to mention, researching the recon line of techs will increase yields.

Edit: POST 2000!

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to code, but a really neat mechanic would be to add a 'Nomadic' civ trait that gives a large bonus to camps, but causes camped resources in one's cultural borders to randomly move to another nearby tile (sans camp). Perhaps this effect could be tied to a unique camp/stable replacement, with regular camps and stables also available with no bonus yield or chance to migrate? I can imagine a very flavorful early game in which a Doviello player scouts for an animal-rich starting area, camps there until the herds migrate, then sends its next settler to where they migrated. Late game, if you don't want to deal with the hassle of random tile swaps in your large empire, you can build regular stables and camps instead.

If you wanted to get really fancy you could increase the chance of animal resources spawning in clusters, give migrating animal resources a chance to move other nearby animals in the same direction, and/or make migration not completely random; maybe animals run toward sources of water/better terrain?

Another Nomad-type ability that would be interesting for the Doviello is an option (1 hammer ritual maybe?) to disband a town, netting a settler and possibly a worker and/or some military units based on city size. It would be good to block this in the capital if possible to avoid players (or stupid AIs ; ) accidentally killing themselves by disbanding their only city. If that rule could somehow be circumvented to give an x turn grace period as long as the settler stays alive, that would be perfect, but that seems like it may be tough to implement.

That... would... ROCK!

Only problem is I'm a builder type... so all my buildings would be lost. :( Still, I THINK someone's allready trying to make that bassica idea, but I think it "died." Which was a shame... I think they even had floating cities. Which I'd love.

I could *probably* code nomadic resources/improvements, but I don't think it's a feature I would use, so it probably wouldn't happen.... Not a fan of a good city, suddenly starving down to nothing because it's resources migrated. :lol:

The second idea is a definite possibility....... Maybe a unique spell, allowing doviello units to disband a town/village improvement, and receive a settler? Lets them disband towns while conquering, and sprawl out with a bunch of small, low pop cities..........

Mmmm Pwnage here we come. ;3

Here's a screenshot of the improvement...... I need a name for it. Atm, I'm using Yurt, which I got from Orbis. :lol:

Yaranga! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaranga)

If you do this "disband city" thing, you may want to base its cost (or duration before casting) on the population of the targeted city. A city with 1 pop will be quicker to disband itself than a 10-pop city ;)

Yaranga! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaranga)

That's actually pretty much perfect. :goodjob:


If you do this "disband city" thing, you may want to base its cost (or duration before casting) on the population of the targeted city. A city with 1 pop will be quicker to disband itself than a 10-pop city ;)


If I do it, it'll be improvement based rather than city based.

That's actually pretty much perfect. :goodjob:Yay! Very happy to help :D

If I do it, it'll be improvement based rather than city based.What do you mean?

As in, allowing the Town/Village improvement to be destroyed, in return for a settler.... On second thought though, that might be too imbalanced. Cities might be the best bet.

Christ. I've been wondering since I started Malakim+ how to get the 'Build a __' line link to the improvement....... Just now realized I just need to put a link in the txt key, something I've been doing for months. :lol:

:lol:

Totally OT but... you're a deity now :goodjob:

haha, Yes I am..... Missed post 2000. Gotta find it.

Edit: And here it is lol. Same thread.

Took the time to write a Credits list for the second post..... If I've missed anyone, please let me know and I'll fix it. I've stolen/borrowed from quite a few of you. :lol:

Also, working on something fairly major right now. Next version is likely going to take awhile.... And need some balancing to get it right. And that's all I'll say about it. ;)

Personally I would see the disbanding town mechanic fitting other civs as well if not better than the Doviello. I think they're plenty fun and flavorful now. :goodjob: Of course, the mechanic could be adapted to more than one civ, but that's no fun! First civ that comes to mind is the Chislev. In fact that gives me a couple of ideas for them..

I like the idea of migrating herds, and I actually brought up a similar idea regarding metal veins drying up, but as far wanderer pointed out in that thread it would cause the city using the material to starve/lose massive amounts of commerce or production. If ideas could be generated to circumvent this, then by all means. But I think having to chase herds, while flavorful, would be way too much added micromanagement. And then, of course, there is the AI to worry about.
Not to deflate anyone's ideas, but if someone can brainstorm some other potential outcomes then maybe that would work out.

Personally I would see the disbanding town mechanic fitting other civs as well if not better than the Doviello. I think they're plenty fun and flavorful now. :goodjob: Of course, the mechanic could be adapted to more than one civ, but that's no fun! First civ that comes to mind is the Chislev. In fact that gives me a couple of ideas for them..

Actually, I agree. Already decided against it, much as I like the idea. Could be used for the Chislev though.....


I like the idea of migrating herds, and I actually brought up a similar idea regarding metal veins drying up, but as far wanderer pointed out in that thread it would cause the city using the material to starve/lose massive amounts of commerce or production. If ideas could be generated to circumvent this, then by all means. But I think having to chase herds, while flavorful, would be way too much added micromanagement. And then, of course, there is the AI to worry about.
Not to deflate anyone's ideas, but if someone can brainstorm some other potential outcomes then maybe that would work out.

Yeah, that's the main reason I don't like it.

Well if you ever decide to + another civ/mod I'll drop some more ideas your way if you open another thread. The migrating herds idea is great, especially for a flavor lacking civ like the Chislev (well, unique mechanic lacking anyway), but I don't want to clutter your thread with brainstorming here.
Doing a great job with everything though. I like that you added the Legion of D'tesh, gave us even more diversity in our games. :D Thanks!

I'll be adding a few new things in the next version. Rather major. :p

I've redownloaded the ffplus+patch+wildmana and made a complete reinstall.. the recon problem still persists though. :(

It did? Doesn't crash on my end..... I'll have to look at it.

I'm going to start a game with the wild nodes. Do I need not to use Flavour Starts? I think I read it caused many mana nodes to appear at the starting positions, causing some troubles.

Flavour start only caused problems when they were placed naturally. They way I have it now, it won't cause any issues at all. :goodjob:

Flavour start only caused problems when they were placed naturally. They way I have it now, it won't cause any issues at all. :goodjob:


I can confirm that. Flavour start works as intended now. :)

It was causing problems because the mana types were spawning like normal resources...... Now they're converted via python on initialization. Slows the game start slightly, but it allows me to spawn held defenders and toggle it via a game option. And control the amount of mana per mapsize. I like it much better, personally. :goodjob:

I'll be adding a few new things in the next version. Rather major. :p

Sweet! :D Looking forward to it!

Hmm... I've started my game but I've not seen any wild nodes... Maybe because I started on a rather small island with the Luchuirp nearby (to bad we couldn't get along). I check the Wild Mana box... I should check in the WB if there is some somewhere but I don't want to spoil myself seeing the map :)

Noticed a new CTD issue.. Pressing the little helmet (that displays hostile units). Also only with this mod + wild mana

THAT is what caused me to lose my massive Malakim Empire? *cries* I was wondering why it crashed, but my comp does some wierd things on it's own that arn't repeatable so I thought it was just me. :/

Agh. Now I'm going to HAVE to reinstall and test haha. Hadn't yet because I was busy modding. :lol:

Hmm... I've started my game but I've not seen any wild nodes... Maybe because I started on a rather small island with the Luchuirp nearby (to bad we couldn't get along). I check the Wild Mana box... I should check in the WB if there is some somewhere but I don't want to spoil myself seeing the map :)

Depending on map size, it adds different amounts of mana, in random places.... Same function as the ritual, which is why it points them out..... gonna have to work on that. :lol:

Noticed a new CTD issue.. Pressing the little helmet (that displays hostile units). Also only with this mod + wild mana

I did a fresh install but am unable to duplicate either of these.......

Slight problem with the Legion of D'Tesh: the Council of Four is not actually available. Some quick research revealed that this was because they were listed as UNITCLASS_MAGE, the same as Chosen of D'Tesh. Changing this to UNITCLASS_ARCHMAGE fixed the problem.

Slight problem with the Legion of D'Tesh: the Council of Four is not actually available. Some quick research revealed that this was because they were listed as UNITCLASS_MAGE, the same as Chosen of D'Tesh. Changing this to UNITCLASS_ARCHMAGE fixed the problem.

I'll fix it, but please, any bugs with the Legion should go here. I had no part in their development, I just got permission to incorporate them. :p

I'll fix it, but please, any bugs with the Legion should go here. I had no part in their development, I just got permission to incorporate them. :p

I had actually planned on posting there, but then I noticed that the mod had been around for almost a year and no one had mentioned a similar bug. So I assumed it was only in the FF+ version. My bad.

...and I see you've already mentioned it in the proper place - thanks!

It's not a big deal, really. Just think it would be easier for Mailbox if the bugs are in his thread. It's actually a very old civilization, that was dropped because he didn't have time to keep it up... He just revived it. :lol: I look through the thread there for bugs constantly, but I won't touch balance issues... His civ. :goodjob:

I did a fresh install but am unable to duplicate either of these.......


:cringe: Guess it's time for me to reinstall civ completely and see if that helps.

Don't think that's necessary.... maybe completely delete FFPlus and reinstall? I DID see the problems before I fixed the DLL, but can't duplicate them now. Even tried using the Wild Mana I uploaded to make sure I uploaded the correct one.

Edit: Or at least, I winmerged them...... Maybe I should try an actual game. Busy merging something secret in though haha

Unfortunately it had no effect.. :( Not that it matter much right now though. My current game with D'tesh(?) is getting boring.. Not even 300 turn in to it on epic/immortal and I'm about to breach 2000 point while my closest competitor is around 350. Oh, did I mention I'm reserching 2.5k+ each turn.. kinda broken. :P

Haha yes, the D'tesh can be rather broken. They need quite a bit of balancing for them to be not too weak, but not too powerful, seeing as they HAVE to use combat to grow.

Is it intended that the Hippogriff is an Animal unit rather than a Beast? I had the event with which it is possible to choose to get a Hunter with Subdue Animals and I fought a Hippogriff. I wasn't thinking I could tame it but I did. Quite surprising, considering that the Griffon is a Beast... isn't it?

Hunters tame anything with a unitcombat_animal, or at least should..... Unless there's some python involved, in which case, the new animals and packs will not be capturable. Going to check now.

edit: Nope, it should automatically capture all unitcombat_animal units. Going to have to test it in game now. :lol:

Weren't there a Subdue Beasts promotion?

Yes, a little bit further in techs, but hippogriffs and griffons are both animals. As well as Stags and Sabertooths. Only Elks and Cave Bears are beasts, out of the new animals.

Oh, ok. I always believed Griffons where beasts, don't know why... Maybe they are in Orbis.

Something about a sabertooth just strikes me as beastly. No?

I agree for the sake of names, but balance wise I didn't like it.... Might change it, but I don't want a bunch of animals wandering the frozen wastes that scouts don't get at least SOME bonus against. :lol:

What happens with the D'teshis is the same thing that happens with any other civ (except Kurios). You are a normal size civ until you go conquer someone else, then you are a big civ with extra land and resources and maybe a wonder that you didn't even have to build. If you could conquer another civ to begin with you must have been doing allright, so with twice the land and resources you most likely are going to steamroll everything.

The legion just takes this to the extreme.

I do like them though. I always thought FFH and FF were lacking in the "braaaiiiiiinnnnnnsss" eating aggressive zombie undead department. And their fun to play.

Oh and cave bears are scary... perhaps even scary enough to make me consider the recon line, good job :)

Hello

I have pink squares for units when I put the mouse on cities

Edit: So long as I'm messing with the DLL for the option, I think I'll merge in Greyfox's Better Pedia mod as well.

Neat! I always liked the pedia modification from Rhyes' better though.

I do like them though. I always thought FFH and FF were lacking in the "braaaiiiiiinnnnnnsss" eating aggressive zombie undead department. And their fun to play.

They really are. Their production and commerce abilities are just too much. By building graveyards you can create truly monstrous plots, and you aren't limited in the size of your cities by trivial things like happiness or health. I find they lack a bit in combat ability, but that's pretty irrelevant since you can always make more zombies!

Having really liked the new Doviello, I decided to try a slightly different strategy with them. The results were impressive, I think you may have underestimated the potential of shared XP for new units, the dueling mechanic, and a player who is comfortable sitting back and not sending out a bunch of units.

About thirty turns into the game, I had built everything I needed to for the immediate future. There wasn't a whole lot to explore, so Lucien was sufficient for that purpose by himself. I started building scouts, getting about one every two turns at that point. Every time one popped out, he challenged the previous one, so I only ever had one scout (with a huge amount of XP) when the next one was built. By the time I founded Fellowship of Leaves my lone scout was ready to go find Brigit, and new scouts were popping out with more than 150xp on them.
When you only have one unit of a specific type at a time, it seemed like about half of the duels result in the bigger one getting a promotion, because it seems to gain more xp when its opponent has more xp (whether the rival unit has actually spent that xp or not).

What happens with the D'teshis is the same thing that happens with any other civ (except Kurios). You are a normal size civ until you go conquer someone else, then you are a big civ with extra land and resources and maybe a wonder that you didn't even have to build. If you could conquer another civ to begin with you must have been doing allright, so with twice the land and resources you most likely are going to steamroll everything.

The legion just takes this to the extreme.

I do like them though. I always thought FFH and FF were lacking in the "braaaiiiiiinnnnnnsss" eating aggressive zombie undead department. And their fun to play.

Oh and cave bears are scary... perhaps even scary enough to make me consider the recon line, good job :)

Basically, yes..... I like them for the same reasons though. :lol:

Glad you like the cave bears haha.

Hello

I have pink squares for units when I put the mouse on cities

Which units? Can you provide a save? I've never seen that.

Neat! I always liked the pedia modification from Rhyes' better though.

Having some issues importing it, actually..... May not get around to it anytime soon.

Having really liked the new Doviello, I decided to try a slightly different strategy with them. The results were impressive, I think you may have underestimated the potential of shared XP for new units, the dueling mechanic, and a player who is comfortable sitting back and not sending out a bunch of units.

About thirty turns into the game, I had built everything I needed to for the immediate future. There wasn't a whole lot to explore, so Lucien was sufficient for that purpose by himself. I started building scouts, getting about one every two turns at that point. Every time one popped out, he challenged the previous one, so I only ever had one scout (with a huge amount of XP) when the next one was built. By the time I founded Fellowship of Leaves my lone scout was ready to go find Brigit, and new scouts were popping out with more than 150xp on them.
When you only have one unit of a specific type at a time, it seemed like about half of the duels result in the bigger one getting a promotion, because it seems to gain more xp when its opponent has more xp (whether the rival unit has actually spent that xp or not).

Yeah, when units duel they gain some of the other units xp....... I think I'm going to have to put a sliding scale into it, so as the experience of the other units go up, the returns decrease.

WOW
i must try this

Haha, hadn't noticed it? It's about to become substantially larger, actually. Secret project. :lol:

Anyone want to volunteer to be a playtester? Only requirements are that you are willing to try out new features, find any bugs/issues, and are able to keep them secret. :lol: Only need a few, so first come first serve. :p

Hello

I have pink squares for units when I put the mouse on cities

here is the save


214215

Anyone want to volunteer to be a playtester? Only requirements are that you are willing to try out new features, find any bugs/issues, and are able to keep them secret. :lol: Only need a few, so first come first serve. :p

I thought I was the forum's official exploit I mean play tester... ;3

I'll probably wait till it just comes out then find like a half dozen exploits then instead like I'm doing to everyone else. :P

Haha that would be helpful too. I'd just like it to be at least somewhat balanced before it's officially released.

Anyone want to volunteer to be a playtester? Only requirements are that you are willing to try out new features, find any bugs/issues, and are able to keep them secret. :lol: Only need a few, so first come first serve. :p

I'd be glad to help in the future, but I'll be gone this weekend, which I'm assuming is when you would want the help.

Most likely, yes.

What days? I can game any day cept sundays.

I could play one game or two, assuming I'm not modding. Plus, if it's really what I think it is, I would really be happy too. I tried "it" one time and had a start with nothing to use it, so it was a bit pointless.

haha yes, I think that would be helpful. It's exactly what you think it is. :lol:

What...? Are you hijacking my head or something...? That's not nice, you know? :mischief:

Anyway, I will have to reinstall FF+ altogether. I think I missed something, the Wild Manas option not working (all mana untapped, no nodes).

Hmm. Lots of people have been having trouble with it, but I can't seem to duplicate it at all, no matter what map I use. I've even reinstalled using freshly downloaded copies rather than what I've got on my comp and it's still working...... rather confusing. :eek:

In which order should all the components be installed? I think I first installed FF+, then Wild Manas, then the Patch.

ah. FF+, patch, then Wild Mana. Doing it the other way would overwrite the python that actually does all the work. Should put that in the first post..........

Installation: After installing and patching Fall Further, run the main FFPlus installer, then the Patch, and then the Wild Mana installer located on the fifth page.You mean the fifth post, don't you?

hahaha, wow. Yes, yes I do. Fixed. :p

Yea it took me about a day to figure out that wild mana and FF+ are separate.

The won't be for much longer. :lol:

Hmmm... I reinstalled and started a new game as the Austrin. Not any mana which isn't raw. I looked in the WB and found two non-raw mana very close to each other, near a capital. Maybe it's the MapScript? I used PerfectWorld2...

Did you get the same effect on game start as you would get from the Rites of Oghma? If you didn't hear the sound and have the locations pointed to, then it's not working correctly.

Edit: Wait, you say you found improved mana elsewhere in the map? In that case, everything is working fine. It doesn't improve all mana, only about 50%, and completely randomly. Some games are bound to end up without much improved mana nearby, others you'll be desperate for Metamagic.

Actually, something I've been thinking about is adding two extra options. Basically, they'd be:


Wild Mana - As it is now. Creates extra mana, converts 50% of the worlds mana to various mana types.
Feral Mana(Need a name) - Converts ALL mana. Metamagic becomes very powerful here, so the Amurites and Khadi would love it.
Mana Guardians - Allows you to toggle off the Guardian spawning.

So it's working. I did see the spawning thing. The sound was pretty awful by the way. "You've discovered a new resource" times 10 = :eek:

I would love those options. However, and I may delve into python myself just for that, my preferred setting would be to have nearly all mana non-raw and a few raw mana. More flavor, more "harsh" (because you're unable to choose your mana), more interesting and more reward for exploration (finding the raw mana!).

Yeah, I'm working on that :lol:. Need to find a simple way to randomize where the mana is placed, without the popup.... the one time I tried it without the popup my comp froze, but I also forgot to delete a comma. Just haven't got around to trying it again yet. :p

Think with the second option I'll leave a small (10%? 5%?) chance for each mana to not convert.

Why not just include Raw Mana as an available type? Then you have 22 mana types for ~4% chance of non-improved mana being present.

If you still want testers, i wanted to start a new game FF+ anyway and i have the time to play one this weekend....

Why not just include Raw Mana as an available type? Then you have 22 mana types for ~4% chance of non-improved mana being present.

Basically what I was thinking. If I wanted a larger chance, I just add it to the list twice. :lol:

If you still want testers, i wanted to start a new game FF+ anyway and i have the time to play one this weekend....

That's pretty much when I'll need them. :goodjob:

Okay, I'm confused. Should I post feedback to Doviello+ in this thread or in the Doviello+ thread? I'll just post there I guess.

Doviello+ thread would be best for now. That way I can keep this thread a bit smaller. :lol:

I'm looking to put a few new UFs into the game.... Anyone have any ideas? Possible graphics?

Not all the mana spheres are represented in the game by UFs right? Personally I'd start there:
1.) Amathaon's Cradle: perhaps a crater style UF (like a bowl) that provides creation mana and also spawns creatures. Also should provide a food bonus maybe?
2.) Mount Olimmos: mythical residence of the pagan gods. Provides air mana.
3.) Daemon Mountain: A unnatural volcano that spawns enraged fireballs from time to time. Provides chaos mana.

I don't think Metamagic should be represented by a UF. Not sure about Force, or Dimensional mana UF ideas.

I was planning on using the Bair for a dimensional source.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11175

Since no one responded to my idea n the Blair of Lacuna thread, I figure I'd mention it here.


Kael stated that the problem with having the Bair of Lacuna on the map is that it is so secret that only 1 god even knows where it is. I like to think it isn't really in Erebus, but in its own plane that is connected to Creation. It makes sense that that connection point would not always stay in the same place, so that it could not be found by those following Ceridwen's disciples.

I decided it could be cool for the Bair of Lacuna to move whenever a non-Sheaim unit approaches, through a <PythonAtRange> call:


def atRangeBair(pCaster, pPlot):
iSheaim = gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_SHEAIM')
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(pCaster.getOwner())
if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() != iSheaim:
listPlots = []
for i in range (CyMap().numPlots()):
pPlot2 = CyMap().plotByIndex(i)
if not pPlot2.isWater():
if pPlot2.getNumUnits() == 0:
if not pPlot2.isCity():
if pPlot2.getImprovementType() == -1 :
if pPlot2.getBonusType(-1) == -1:
if not pPlot2.isOwned():
listPlots.append(i)
elif gc.getPlayer(pPlot2.getOwner()).getCivilizationTyp e() == iSheaim:
listPlots.append(i)
if len(listPlots) > 0:
iRnd = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(len(listPlots), "Hide Bair")
pPlot3 = CyMap().plotByIndex(listPlots[iRnd])

pPlot.setImprovementType(-1)
pPlot.setBonusType(-1)
pPlot3.setImprovementType(gc.getInfoTypeForString( 'IMPROVEMENT_BAIR_OF_LACUNA'))

for iUnit in range(pPlot.getNumUnits(), 0, -1):
pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(iUnit-1)
pPlayerUnit = gc.getPlayer(pUnit.getOwner())
if pPlayerUnit.getCivilizationType() == iSheaim:
pUnit.setXY(pPlot3.getX(), pPlot3.getY(), false, true, true)

I got that working last night, except it doesn't seem to move all the Sheaim units on the tile and I'm not sure why. Could it be reevaluating in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()) after moving a unit changes the number of units on the tile, thus stopping before it cycles through all of them? Or, maybe that part stays the same but the indexes of the units left on the tiles change so it doesn't bother checking the unit immediately after each one it moves?

I'm thinking I may change it so that a permanent ally of a Sheaim civ counts as Sheaim for the purpose of this, as after building the Mercurian gate in a test game it became rather hard to keep that extra dimensional mana.


Edit: I think that the problem was that moving a unit changed the indices of the other units and thus skipped them. I changed it to cycle through the units in the Bair backwards, and it seems to work fine.

I'd seen your post, but hadn't replied because I was busy adding other things and didn't want to spend forever figuring out how to do it haha. Now that you have already, I think I'll go ahead and use it, with the exception that the Calabim will be able to take it as well..... Might have to figure out a benefit for other civs, to try and balance it a bit.

I'm looking to put a few new UFs into the game.... Anyone have any ideas? Possible graphics?
I'd like to see more features that provide non-mana resources. For example, Orbis has Gate to the Underdark UF that provides Gems. I find myself lacking in more specific ideas for this.

Also, too many features are just cool things to found cities near, when I feel like most of them should be far off in the distant wilderness. Towards that end, I'd like to see more features that have quests, events, or dangers associated with them, like the Ring of Carcer. I especially like the idea of UFs that spawn units, because since they revert to unexplored over time they will always be a threat. I'm short on lore references right now but here are some mechanical suggestions.
Explorable epic dungeons:

A dungeon that can only be entered by units with the adventurer promotion
A legendary cove that spawns barbarian Pirates.
An ancient mass grave that can only be entered by units with Undead or Undead Slaying. Spawns Spectres until dealt with.
An old wizard's tower that can only be entered by an arcane unit with Channeling 3. In addition to being an epic dungeon, it contains a powerful item that can be captured (perhaps an artifact that can be dropped in a city to provide metamagic mana?)
An ice cave that spawns Strong bears. Doviello units of level 10 or higher can cast Kindred Spirits to destroy the cave and gain a heroic Cave Bear.

Unexplorable features:

A lost shipwreck that is invisible until a unit enters it. When entered, it spawns five treasure chests across the map.
A shrine that Blesses units in it and launches a Citadel of Light effect at demons.
Shadow Court - a grove of trees that allows units to pay 100 gold and spend three turns to become hidden nationality.

Explorable epic dungeons:

A dungeon that can only be entered by units with the adventurer promotion
An ancient mass grave that can only be entered by units with Undead or Undead Slaying. Spawns Spectres until dealt with.
An old wizard's tower that can only be entered by an arcane unit with Channeling 3. In addition to being an epic dungeon, it contains a powerful item that can be captured (perhaps an artifact that can be dropped in a city to provide metamagic mana?)
A shrine that Blesses units in it and launches a Citadel of Light effect at demons.


I like these ones a lot... :goodjob:

*rustle*

I could take a shot at doing art for such things, if a concept picture and/or detailed description is provided.

I don't know much about particles or building animations in Civ yet, but I'm sure I could learn. and I do have a lot of particle experience in another medium.

Explorable epic dungeons in general are very cool. Especially now that regular lairs only seem to spawn gold, promotions (shield of Dagda, withered, whatever) and the odd orc.

I would say that rather then rolling the dice, and getting something very good or very bad, results should tend to be both. Like Orthus is a good example, he can mess up your nation but he also has a sweet axe for whoever kills him.

Since no one responded to my idea n the Blair of Lacuna thread, I figure I'd mention it here.

After reading about it, it makes more sense that only Calabim and Sheiam can see it.

Maybe it could provide Dimensional Mana without a route or being even being able to see it. So you might periodically be granted dimensional mana as the gateway to the bair temporarily rests in your borders. Otherwise the first Calabim or Sheaim unit that finds it can explore the "(b)lair." Perhaps give them a free technology.

Also, I still keep laughing out loud at "Blair" of Lacuna. And now I have the theme song for the Facts of Life stuck in my head.

I like these ones a lot... :goodjob:

*rustle*

Sneaky!

Making it provide Dimensional Mana without a route would not be possible, but it could of course happen to appear on a tile that already has a road or is by a river and thus already be connected.

The way I have the code now it would never appear in other civ's lands, but if you remove the if not pPlot2.isOwned(): and elif gc.getPlayer(pPlot2.getOwner()).getCivilizationTyp e() == iSheaim: lines and just append all unimproved bonusless land tiles then it could give other civs Dimensional mana until they get too close to it.



While Alexis and Flauros were raised in the Bair, I'm not sure they would still be welcome back after abandoning their mother, or if they would even be able to find it if it is in another plane and its connection to Erebus is not constant.

In my version, I just added a Sheaim-only Dimensional spell that lets the caster teleport to the Bair.

It would be nifty to have some lairs which require you have improved result capabilities to even TRY exploring them (Hero/Courage/Adventurer currently).

Definitely, would mean you'd have to try "leveling" up your recon units before trying for the big stuff. Course I guess you would (i do anyway) before trying for the epic lairs in general.

I decided it could be cool for the Bair of Lacuna to move whenever a non-Sheaim unit approaches, through a <PythonAtRange> call:

Nice!

Alternatively,
I wonder how the code that makes Lairs appear works, and if it'd be practical to have the Bair placed only during a game: Every X turns a random plot is selected. If that plot is in Sheaim (or maybe Calabim) territory the Bair is placed on the map.

Making it provide Dimensional Mana without a route would not be possible,

Of course it is.

When it enters someone's territory, a building that gives dimensional mana could be created in the nearest city owned by them. And it would be removed again when the blair moves.

Making lairs with requirements would be a great way to spread out the exploration goodies into the mid game. On higher difficulties those things tend to go fast, although the ultra scary animals help prevent that.

Hmm... what if the blair was in 2 places at once and both sides moved. It would allow free but iffy teleporting between its 1 location and its other once its explored. Perhaps units that use it would sometimes dissapear for a few turns (but appear unharmed) and maybe it could occasionally eat low level low tier units and spit out specters or something. Not sure if any of this is possible or makes sense, I just thought it would be neat.

Playing with Doviello a bit, they're very powerful now.

With Mark of the Wolf, Lucian is nigh indestructible. the free xp thing doesn't make a lot of difference, because combat quickly dwarfs it. He could wipe out nations alone though.

I'm also trying farming xp for a scout through repeated duelling. it's quite rewarding so far, 38 xp without ever leaving the city. I've been fortunate enough to start less than 5 tiles away from the Ring of Carcer, and at the current rate, I expect to free brigit before turn 100.


Also, the scavenger promotion doesn't seem to refresh on a kill. The duration should be reset every time you kill something, no?

As it is now, it seems to require you to wait the full 5 turns before it can be reapplied.

I agree, I need to reign in the mechanics to balance it out.... Doviello+ hasn't had much balance yet. :lol: Should be a bit better soon.

Turn 83. My starting scout hits lv15, frees Brigit the Shining.

I don't even have a second city yet, but I have a scout who can slay armies, and a str 9 heroic angel. And then thre's lucian, of course. And the fact that all my new recon units are starting with about 80 xp

Who I can then kill in the arena, for about 30xp per battle. And I can make another one of these every turn.

I'm going to see if I can get my scout to max out every promotion in existence :D


It may be horribly overpowered, but it certainly is still fun.

Honestly, I'm becoming tempted to remove experience sharing entirely. The ability to duel repeatedly and build up massive units wouldn't be so bad then..... you're only getting 2xp per duel. Still alot, but it's not going to get you an amazing unit very quickly. If I could have it ignore units who duel it would work too...

Maybe have dueling apply an effect promo, with some specific duration, that block's it's xp from counting? As well as toning down the amount of xp gained from dueling after a certain level?

Honestly, I'm becoming tempted to remove experience sharing entirely. The ability to duel repeatedly and build up massive units wouldn't be so bad then..... you're only getting 2xp per duel. Still alot, but it's not going to get you an amazing unit very quickly. If I could have it ignore units who duel it would work too...

Maybe have dueling apply an effect promo, with some specific duration, that block's it's xp from counting? As well as toning down the amount of xp gained from dueling after a certain level?

I'm thinking, just a hard cap on the amount of xp share you can start with.

It makes sense to start with 6-8 for instance, and allows doviello to produce decent units quickly if they keep the pack focused. It's just a bit silly when newly built units can start with over 50xp

I'd say, tone down xp sharing a bit, and hard cap it at 12xp on unit creation, or some similar number. I like it, and I'd rather not see it removed entirely.


On another note, I'm finding limited upgrade options for some units lamentable. I wanted to upgrade my super scout into a horseman. And I could do so, but I thought I'd make him a hunter first, and now the horseman option is removed.

Might I suggest making cross-unitcombat upgrading a bit more fluid? Like allowing hunters to become axemen and horsemen. Maybe even just for doviello, to represent their flexibility and on-the-fly tactics.

I don't know about some of them, but I know I'll be allowing axemen(or was it champions?) to upgrade to Chariots, as in FfH.... Certain other upgrade paths if they make sense.

And a hard cap could work. Should even be reasonably easy to implement. Still going to have to tone down xp from duels. Or maybe compare unit strengths, and if it's too weak not grant anything?

Eventually, WK, your uber-scout will win the duel but succumb to his injuries. It happened to my scout after about 550xp. Then I had to start aaaaall over.

I would say cap them both. After 100xp (or so) you can't gain anymore xp from a duel. And perhaps the most you can gain from xp sharing is 10 xp.

Once you start building a bunch of units the amount of xp you get from shared xp drops sharply. So maybe it doesn't even need a cap but a tweak to the formula.

I would place the cap on starting XP as a Per Unit cap. Then if you have 10 melee units EACH at 150 XP, you can start out with up to 25XP free on new units, but if you have a SINGLE unit who is at 150 XP you can only start out with up to 3XP on new units. Then a player with an elite fighting force rampaging around the lands gets decent replacement troops lined up, and a player 'sploiting gets jack diddly. (It'd be bloody hard to get 25 out the gate with 10+ units actually running around anyway I imagine, didn't check the formula used, but I imagine it'd require a heck of a lot more than a 150 per unit average)

Eventually, WK, your uber-scout will win the duel but succumb to his injuries. It happened to my scout after about 550xp. Then I had to start aaaaall over.


Oh, it did.
The reload option comes in handy :D

I like Brigit though. She got that result once "Your unit has succumbed to it's injuries" and being immortal, she just respawned instantly, and still got the xp

You could just give the whole mechanic to someone who doesn't have duel, such as the Chislev, without having to do any nerfing. The doviello really dont seem like the kind of people who voluntarily share anything anyway lol.

That's pretty much exactly what I'll do if I end up taking it away from the Doviello.... Going to try balancing it first, though.

You could just give the whole mechanic to someone who doesn't have duel, such as the Chislev, without having to do any nerfing. The doviello really dont seem like the kind of people who voluntarily share anything anyway lol.

I was actually just thinking that the XP sharing would be a better thematic fit than duelling for the Doviello in anycase - the whole "pack mentality" thing... If the pack is strong, new units start strong too. I kinda see the Doviello as alway "meaning it" when they fight, so they'd need a good reason to do so...

I was actually just thinking that the XP sharing would be a better thematic fit than duelling for the Doviello in anycase - the whole "pack mentality" thing... If the pack is strong, new units start strong too. I kinda see the Doviello as alway "meaning it" when they fight, so they'd need a good reason to do so...

But the doviello lore mentions honorable duels in a few places. One that I distinctly remember is the War Machine pedia entry. And the doviello#s aversion to stealth is referenced in mahala's entry too. I'd say it's definitely a thematically appropriate mechanic for them. MC was the first to suggest it, and he knows his stuff.

But the doviello lore mentions honorable duels in a few places. One that I distinctly remember is the War Machine pedia entry. And the doviello#s aversion to stealth is referenced in mahala's entry too. I'd say it's definitely a thematically appropriate mechanic for them. MC was the first to suggest it, and he knows his stuff.

Aye - the duels definitely take place, but they have a place within Doviello society, notably as a method of selecting leaders... The in-game incarnation of the mechanic promotes scrapping away in the duelling pit like a gladiator more than seeing off challengers in honourable combat.

The main reason I favour the pack mechanic though is that it's a lot more interesting gameplaywise and encourages you to play to the Doviello strengths (early and sustained aggression) rather than nursing an uberunit through 100 turns of duels...

playing with legion of D'tesh.

Stoogies won't get xp from fights but from passive xp.

Can't upgrade chosen of d'tesh units in spite of meeting all prereq's

Shrine of sironia's spell HEALS undead - that's weird, it should damage them, right?

with Republic civic no elections for legion.

Overall, most of lvl3 summoning spells are not worth of investment. ( Summoners excluded, of course)

I've never really understood why FF removes the bCasterMustBeAlive prereq from Sirona's Touch.

Yeah, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the Doviello just yet. To be honest, I haven't done more than look at the code for the past two days. :lol: Was a pain getting the last project working correctly....

And now that I have permission for the project, I might as well post here, so the testers can respond easier... I've imported the Mechanos from Orbis. :p Won't be quite the same, because the techtree is vastly different and most unitclasses have different base strengths, but it should get the feel of the civ. I've only added one tech (Alchemy), available to all civs and late game... Possibly too late. For most people, it opens up the Silver Circle. To compensate for it's move up the tech tree, the Wandering Sages (now Alchemists) gain the Transmute ability, like the lizard priests. I'm considering making it a full guild, and putting the Master Enchanter/Alchemist into the guild.

For the Mechanos, Alchemy opens up their Power Plant UB, adds yields to the Refinery improvement, and allows their Berserker UU, the Grenadier. The majority of their powerful units will be along the Siege line... They get the Howitzer cannon UU, the Trebuchet like the Dwarves, and the Steam Tank, a 15:strength: siege unit shared by the Mechanos and Dwarves. They both also gain the Ironclad Man-o-war UU... All these are straight from Orbis.

Anyway, next release will be a main version, including the Orbis, and several other major features. Should be about another week though. :lol:

All you poor bastages that actually PLAY the game will get so confused with all of the cross-importing of Civs :)

EDIT: Oh yeah, and all you poor bastages that get to play catch-up with my next code release too... :p suckers! (I mock you because I have to put up with writting and debugging the crap right now, and it SUCKS!)

haha I know. Honestly, I've mostly stopped playing. I test my changes, and play one real game every week or two... And yet somehow, I still enjoy it. :lol:

For the testers: I apparently had a typo in the Refinery art define, and forgot to include the Refined Mana art folder. Just extract the attached folder in your FFPlus directory, overwriting the assets folder.

Edit: EDIT: Oh yeah, and all you poor bastages that get to play catch-up with my next code release too... :p suckers! (I mock you because I have to put up with writing and debugging the crap right now, and it SUCKS!)

Yeah, not looking forward to that one...... :wallbash:

For the testers: I apparently had a typo in the Refinery art define, and forgot to include the Refined Mana art folder. Just extract the attached folder in your FFPlus directory, overwriting the assets folder.

There's a lot of other junk in that zip, is that supposed to be in the assets folder? Because just overwriting the assets folder doesn't fix the problem. The assets folder just has the art and the CIV4ArtDefines_Improvement.xml file.

EDIT: Okay, installing that other junk is not a good idea. But with just the assets folder I still can't start a new game and create a refinery in WB. Get the same CTD.

EDIT EDIT: I see the typo that you fixed. It was just changing "magicOrb.nif" to "magicorb.nif" but capitalization shouldn't matter for a filename, no?

EDIT EDIT EDIT: I don't think it has anything to do with the art. I swapped Citadel of Light art info with Refinery and I could place the citadels just fine (they looked like refineries on mana.) When I went to place a refinery with the citadel art, CTD.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: I looked around the python and XML and I don't see anything out of place (then again, I don't really know what to look for.) Just to throw out some ideas ... I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is that the creation of a refinery changes that plot into a source for refined mana, which isn't really a mana type at all. It's more of a resource but I guess it has to be handled like mana so captured refineries can be pillaged to get to the mana beneath. Orbis might have code to keep the game from puking when this mana-but-not-mana resource is added and may have some effect on the interface or units on the tile. Like trying to update the mana chart in the upper left with this new mana resource.

Or perhaps it is another typo ... Orbis seems to like to use "rafined" instead of "refined" for this resource.

Also, while it may have nothing to do with this bug, when I looked at the Civilopedia entry for a power plant it said it provided Power (X) but instead of a lightning bolt for the X there was a target.

All that should be inside the folder is the improvement artdefines, and the folder for the resource art. Shouldn't contain anything else.........

Actually, the typo changed a 0 to a o.... Numbers don't count as letters. :lol:

Yes, if you fixed the typo but didn't place the resource folder it will cause issues.

Ah, actually, looking around to make sure I didn't have a typo in the artdefine for the resource told me what was wrong. I didn't put it in the 'resources' folder inside art/terrain. Fixed file is up.


And yes, the power issue is because FF doesn't have a power icon. I haven't got around to messing with the res files yet....... I despise those things. :lol:

All that should be inside the folder is the improvement artdefines, and the folder for the resource art. Shouldn't contain anything else.........

Actually, the typo changed a 0 to a o.... Numbers don't count as letters. :lol:

It was a capital O. I had to load it in my XML editor to be extra sure. Sometimes I miss the old days where zeros had slashes through the middle.

Oh, and all that extra junk was because I've been extracting Asset folders to my desktop all week. That must have been leftover from another RAR.

Fix works! Time to kick some Doviello+ butt!

ah. Either way it caused a crash. :lol:

Explains alot lol. Couldn't figure out what extra stuff you were talking about.... And I'm glad it works. :goodjob:

Ok, now that I've begun working again I have a question for you people...... Starting on the Adventurer spawning mechanic for the Grigori. I have two options for how I do this....


Run the chance for each city, only increasing the odds for buildings in that city, as with the Jotnar.
Spawn Adventurers in the Capital only, increasing the chance for each building in the empire, as with the Scions.


I'm leaning towards option 2, as I think it will run faster, but what do the rest of you think?


Edit: Btw, I believe I'm going to change Garrim to Arcane, rather than defender........ Seems to fit his lore better, and should be more useful.

Next release I have a bigger font TGA to work with, so I'll put the power icon back. When I had added the ranged attack icon I wasn't sure I would be allowed to spill over into the next row yet (learned with the peace icons that it was fine though)

Woo! That's amazingly good news. :lol: Means I'll still have to mess with it to import the camel icon, but that's something that's already there. :p

For the Adventurer spawning I prefer option 2. While it kinda make sense adventurers would be popping up all over the place, I think it makes more sense to have them show up in a centralized location.

I went with option 2 without waiting for any responses, Deadliver's came as I was finishing up. :lol:

It DOES need fine tuning, but it works reasonably well.

Initial spawn chance of 5.33%.... You get .25% per Museum, .5% per Tavern, and a full 1% per adventurers guild. For now, it DOES decay, because otherwise you could end up getting one every turn with enough buildings.... Great People costs increase anyway, so it's not a bad approximation.

Here's a working version... It does NOT remove them as a great person type yet, as I haven't got around to it. It just allows them to spawn. Works with Patch B OR the beta, for those who are testing the Mechanos. :lol: Just overwrite your assets folder.

repeatable python exception. Appeared after applying slave trade from undercouncil .

http://www.2shared.com/file/5826148/a15db950/python.html

there is no slave trade option....

Ah, it's an issue with the Legion. I'll fix it, and post the fix in his thread.

Edit: Very easy fix. I'd post a fixed file, but that would mean reverting quite a few changes..... For now, the bug is just going to have to stay, unless you can edit it yourself. To do so, open up CvSpellInterface.py, search for reqSlaveTradeBuy, and add the following line above all others:
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())

There are now 3 options for the mana..... Wild Mana, Feral Mana, and Mana Guardians.

Wild Mana is basically as it is now, although there is no chance for a guardian to spawn.

Feral Mana will convert all but around 4% of mana into the various mana types.

Mana Guardian will spawn guardians on ALL manas.

So I just got to the point in my test game where it was time to take out a 2nd civ...and I built a trebuchet to soften up city defenses for my axemen and techpriests.


It wasn't until I attacked with it that I realized that it had affinity: refined mana. :eek:


Power 7 trebuchet + 400% bonus vs. city = effective power 35? :crazyeye:


What I expected to be a long slog has turned into a whirlwind tour of his cities. One tap with old faithful and then cleanup the battered survivors.

Seems...a bit much. Maybe tone down the bonus to city attack?

Also, would be neat if affinity affected ranged attack. Don't know if that is possible....

I'm playing a game as doviello now, not using the duel/xp share exploit this time. Still rampaging all over the world.

I find the thing that's helped me most, is running undercouncil and upgrading slaves. The animals were nice, but mainly the "mark of.." promotions were useful. Actual animal spawning rarely was, except for one powerful wolf pack I got when only wolves were spawning.

Perhaps it has something to do with the poor capital location, and resulting bad production, but I found that I couldn't really build the dens fast enough for them to be useful.. Also, I think mammoths should be stronger, but come later. Str8 seems like a lot, but with no defensive bonuses, and a penalty to city attack, it's a lot less. Also, animals don't get any xp share experience, can't duel, and there doesn't seem to be any way to level them up outside of combat, so I found them overall inferior to footsoldiers. A lv4 Son of Asena is more useful than a lv1 mammoth rider I'd say, and I can get either without having to fight a single battle

Also, I began to regret building the stag copse after a while. Spells like haste, treetop defence, etc, are good, but you only need one unit in a stack to cast them. My stag spawn rates went through the roof, and I ended up with hundreds of the little buggers. Str 3, and not really good for much. I couldn't even seem to combine them into a Stag herd, which was disappointing consideringI could do the same with wolves. I also couldn't see any way to upgrade them to Elks. Perhaps it can be done through levelling, but getting xp for a str3 unit isn't easy beyond the first 100 turns or so.

I got the bear/lion/griffin things too late to be of much use, it seems. The build costs on them really are a bit much, especially with flavourmod's decision to dump me in an icy highland with not a single flat land or river in sight. I had to run a windmill economy for most of the game just to break even on food, and my capital grew VEEEERY slowly.

I will say though, that although I didn't get much use out of bears, the mark of the bear promo is quite useful, being that it's essentially free March. It also leads to Bear Kin after only combat III, which gives +1 str. Might be a bit powerful.

but only a select few of my units ever got the animal promos. 90% of my army now is battlemasters upgraded from slaves. It was the only thing that could provide the raw power and easy availability needed for my rampage across erebus. The animals were kind of left in the dust, except for one of the first wolves I ever got, later upgraded into a str10 Wolf pack with Empower V. That was mainly because of there being nothing but wolves early on. haven't managed to get such numbers of any specific animal since.

In general though, the mammoth spawn rate seems a little high. Mammoth riders certainly do look intimidating, but they were still disappointingly ineffective. I'd rather see mammoths made later, more powerful, and rarer.

It'd be nice if normal troops could go to where you've built the animal dens, and "bond" with the animals, to recieve the "mark of.." promotion. It's a bit limiting to only be able to get them from units built in those cities. And it means cramming them all into one city is the only way to get the full potential out of it.


Also, as an Aside, a notable bug.

It seems that the Doviello's +1 :food: on ice also applies to hills, meaning that I get the same food output from ice hills and ice flatlands. however, it doesn't work with Ancient Forest. Although that gives +1 food in the tile, an ice hills tile with AF on it was still only giving 1 food. It worked on the flatlands though, but I just wonder if this is how it's supposed to work. Seems strange.

Hee hee. You could give the Grand Menagerie a huge bonus to training rate and cap for animals and beasts :p Would make the Doviello positivly lust after that wonder, even though with the animals spawning for them it is rather trivial to get it I imagine (well, I don't think they spawn Tigers and Gorillas, so maybe just as hard as it is for anyone else then, since those are the sticking points)

More Mechanos thoughts:


1. They should be blocked from researching Divination/Alteration/etc... and Priesthood (and all subsequent techs). I want to pop an extra Great Sage for a tech...but it keeps offering to give me techs I can't use. :mad:

2. A Mechanos-only tech or tech path that requires KOTE and philosophy would be neat. Could hide some of their unique units there, along with other steam-flavored stuff.

3. Flavored mana from the castle makes no sense. Copper is a balance problem. Maybe give them 1 refined mana, clockworks (random resource for +1 happy, like linens), and blasting powder? Engineer GPP would also work.

4. Blimp can only be built in a coastal city. Mechanos should be able to build them even if landlocked. Also, they can't strafe land units. Kinda lame, although obviously it is because they are a naval unit.

5. Would be neat for Mechanos melee units had a gunpowder art theme, even if they are mechanically unchanged. Blunderbusses, pistols...heck maybe even a chainsaw on the champion.

6. A mechanical foot soldier would be cool.

Hee hee. You could give the Grand Menagerie a huge bonus to training rate and cap for animals and beasts :p Would make the Doviello positivly lust after that wonder, even though with the animals spawning for them it is rather trivial to get it I imagine (well, I don't think they spawn Tigers and Gorillas, so maybe just as hard as it is for anyone else then, since those are the sticking points)

As I recall, it requires a lion, tiger, bear, gorilla, and wolf

bears wolves and lions can be spawned by doviello, yes. But they're the most common animals in the wild anyway. Hardly difficult to find.

Gorillas are the rarest, and can't be spawned like that. Finding them is still very hard.

Also, the grand menagerie is about putting animals in cages. Somehow, I don't think it quite fits...

So I just got to the point in my test game where it was time to take out a 2nd civ...and I built a trebuchet to soften up city defenses for my axemen and techpriests.


It wasn't until I attacked with it that I realized that it had affinity: refined mana. :eek:


Power 7 trebuchet + 400% bonus vs. city = effective power 35? :crazyeye:


What I expected to be a long slog has turned into a whirlwind tour of his cities. One tap with old faithful and then cleanup the battered survivors.

Seems...a bit much. Maybe tone down the bonus to city attack?

Also, would be neat if affinity affected ranged attack. Don't know if that is possible....

Don't think I CAN tone down the bonus without gimping the Khazad. Only thing I can think of is to remove the affinity, allow the Khazad to build refined mana as well and remove the city attack, make a new Trebuchet UU, or remove city attack from ALL siege and up their strength, which I don't really want to do.

I'm playing a game as doviello now, not using the duel/xp share exploit this time. Still rampaging all over the world.

I find the thing that's helped me most, is running undercouncil and upgrading slaves. The animals were nice, but mainly the "mark of.." promotions were useful. Actual animal spawning rarely was, except for one powerful wolf pack I got when only wolves were spawning.

The old mechanic is still sometimes the best. :lol:


Perhaps it has something to do with the poor capital location, and resulting bad production, but I found that I couldn't really build the dens fast enough for them to be useful.. Also, I think mammoths should be stronger, but come later. Str8 seems like a lot, but with no defensive bonuses, and a penalty to city attack, it's a lot less. Also, animals don't get any xp share experience, can't duel, and there doesn't seem to be any way to level them up outside of combat, so I found them overall inferior to footsoldiers. A lv4 Son of Asena is more useful than a lv1 mammoth rider I'd say, and I can get either without having to fight a single battle

If you build a Son of Asena in the city with the Mammoth Den, and get it to level 5 out of the gate, you can combine it with a Mammoth to get a lvl 5 mammoth rider. :lol:

I'm actually thinking of an Trainer uu.... Allows animals to learn new promotions, and gives them some xp each turn they're in his stack.


Also, I began to regret building the stag copse after a while. Spells like haste, treetop defence, etc, are good, but you only need one unit in a stack to cast them. My stag spawn rates went through the roof, and I ended up with hundreds of the little buggers. Str 3, and not really good for much. I couldn't even seem to combine them into a Stag herd, which was disappointing consideringI could do the same with wolves. I also couldn't see any way to upgrade them to Elks. Perhaps it can be done through levelling, but getting xp for a str3 unit isn't easy beyond the first 100 turns or so.

For now, they can be spawned after researching priesthood..... I think the trainer unit will allow them to upgrade.


I got the bear/lion/griffin things too late to be of much use, it seems. The build costs on them really are a bit much, especially with flavourmod's decision to dump me in an icy highland with not a single flat land or river in sight. I had to run a windmill economy for most of the game just to break even on food, and my capital grew VEEEERY slowly.

Think I'll drop the price. I tried to keep them up there with wonders, but after a few games of my own, I think it's too high.


I will say though, that although I didn't get much use out of bears, the mark of the bear promo is quite useful, being that it's essentially free March. It also leads to Bear Kin after only combat III, which gives +1 str. Might be a bit powerful.

Supposed to be, really. I tend to build units in my den cities so I can get some nice armies going, but the Bear Den requires smelting, so I don't have a problem with a good bonus from it.


but only a select few of my units ever got the animal promos. 90% of my army now is battlemasters upgraded from slaves. It was the only thing that could provide the raw power and easy availability needed for my rampage across erebus. The animals were kind of left in the dust, except for one of the first wolves I ever got, later upgraded into a str10 Wolf pack with Empower V. That was mainly because of there being nothing but wolves early on. haven't managed to get such numbers of any specific animal since.

In general though, the mammoth spawn rate seems a little high. Mammoth riders certainly do look intimidating, but they were still disappointingly ineffective. I'd rather see mammoths made later, more powerful, and rarer.

Maybe I'll add wolves, lions, and bears to the spawn list twice, so they'll spawn more often?


It'd be nice if normal troops could go to where you've built the animal dens, and "bond" with the animals, to recieve the "mark of.." promotion. It's a bit limiting to only be able to get them from units built in those cities. And it means cramming them all into one city is the only way to get the full potential out of it.

Think I'll let it be gained by sacrificing an animal.


Also, as an Aside, a notable bug.

It seems that the Doviello's +1 :food: on ice also applies to hills, meaning that I get the same food output from ice hills and ice flatlands. however, it doesn't work with Ancient Forest. Although that gives +1 food in the tile, an ice hills tile with AF on it was still only giving 1 food. It worked on the flatlands though, but I just wonder if this is how it's supposed to work. Seems strange.

Yeah, I have no idea what would be causing that........ It's one for Jean to look at. :lol: As it is, they don't have food on ice much longer.

More Mechanos thoughts:


1. They should be blocked from researching Divination/Alteration/etc... and Priesthood (and all subsequent techs). I want to pop an extra Great Sage for a tech...but it keeps offering to give me techs I can't use. :mad:

2. A Mechanos-only tech or tech path that requires KOTE and philosophy would be neat. Could hide some of their unique units there, along with other steam-flavored stuff.

3. Flavored mana from the castle makes no sense. Copper is a balance problem. Maybe give them 1 refined mana, clockworks (random resource for +1 happy, like linens), and blasting powder? Engineer GPP would also work.

4. Blimp can only be built in a coastal city. Mechanos should be able to build them even if landlocked. Also, they can't strafe land units. Kinda lame, although obviously it is because they are a naval unit.

5. Would be neat for Mechanos melee units had a gunpowder art theme, even if they are mechanically unchanged. Blunderbusses, pistols...heck maybe even a chainsaw on the champion.

6. A mechanical foot soldier would be cool.

1. Yeah, need to do that... I just don't like blocking techs.

2. Honestly, Alchemy was originally Steam Power, requiring KotE. I moved it so I could put high end stuff there, but might re-add it.

3. Agreed. I like your suggestions there, too......

4. Need to fix that, should be buildable anywhere.

5. That would need art. :lol:

As I recall, it requires a lion, tiger, bear, gorilla, and wolf

bears wolves and lions can be spawned by doviello, yes. But they're the most common animals in the wild anyway. Hardly difficult to find.

Gorillas are the rarest, and can't be spawned like that. Finding them is still very hard.

Also, the grand menagerie is about putting animals in cages. Somehow, I don't think it quite fits...

I agree... I gave them a way to accomplish it with the Animal Kindred spell, but that's all I'll do.

Don't think I CAN tone down the bonus without gimping the Khazad. Only thing I can think of is to remove the affinity, allow the Khazad to build refined mana as well and remove the city attack, make a new Trebuchet UU, or remove city attack from ALL siege and up their strength, which I don't really want to do.

Just give them their own UU already. It's the best solution by far.
Messing with khazad goes a bit beond scope, I'd say. Not that I have a problem with tweaks to khazad if you'd like to do that, but it seems pointlessly complex. Give mechanos their own UU for this situation.

The old mechanic is still sometimes the best. :lol:

Yes, though I do wonder if it's TOO good. Eventually, I was running research at 50% to support a vast gold income, and upgrading several battlemasters every turn. The upgrade spells do feel a bit cheap. Although I suppose it's countered by their not having any xp when taken from slaves. I mostly used them as cannon fodder or defenders for newly taken cities, while my more elite army moved on.


If you build a Son of Asena in the city with the Mammoth Den, and get it to level 5 out of the gate, you can combine it with a Mammoth to get a lvl 5 mammoth rider. :lol:

I didn't know this...

I was able to upgrade mammoths into mammoth riders without requiring any other unit. This is a bit counterintuitive.

I'd suggest maybe, making it require a unit to join with the mammoth.

As it is, they don't have food on ice much longer.

?

Surely you're not planning on removing that 1:food: ? It's all that kept me alive, without it my empire would have fallen apart before it ever started.

Just give them their own UU already. It's the best solution by far.
Messing with khazad goes a bit beond scope, I'd say. Not that I have a problem with tweaks to khazad if you'd like to do that, but it seems pointlessly complex. Give mechanos their own UU for this situation.




Yeah, this. Just copy and paste. Don't need to add a new unitclass or anything.


If the same art for two functionally different units bothers you grab the Hwacha art. :)

Just give them their own UU already. It's the best solution by far.
Messing with khazad goes a bit beond scope, I'd say. Not that I have a problem with tweaks to khazad if you'd like to do that, but it seems pointlessly complex. Give mechanos their own UU for this situation.

That probably would be the easiest solution. :lol:


Yes, though I do wonder if it's TOO good. Eventually, I was running research at 50% to support a vast gold income, and upgrading several battlemasters every turn. The upgrade spells do feel a bit cheap. Although I suppose it's countered by their not having any xp when taken from slaves. I mostly used them as cannon fodder or defenders for newly taken cities, while my more elite army moved on.

Yeah, might have to play with the costs in the end, but I'm not really planning on it unless I have to. As it is, you get low-quality troops compared to what you train yourself.


I didn't know this...

I was able to upgrade mammoths into mammoth riders without requiring any other unit. This is a bit counterintuitive.

I'd suggest maybe, making it require a unit to join with the mammoth.

The Mark of the Mammoth promotion allows a 'Ride Mammoth' spell at level 5, allowing you to create a mammoth rider with promotions it wouldn't be able to get otherwise.


?

Surely you're not planning on removing that 1:food: ? It's all that kept me alive, without it my empire would have fallen apart before it ever started.

Wait, you were talking about snow. :lol: They keep that, although Tundra is gone.... Instead, they get bonus yields for a new improvement.

Wait, you were talking about snow. :lol: They keep that, although Tundra is gone.... Instead, they get bonus yields for a new improvement.

Tundra is gone?

Or are you removing the :food: yield from it?

As far as I remember, Tundra yields 1 :food: in general for everyone. And Doviello just get +1:hammers: from it too.

Removed the yields from it. I'm tempted to remove the food from ice, and allow the Yaranga to be built there as well, but it would allow ANYONE to build it there.... So I'm not going to do that.

Yeah, this. Just copy and paste. Don't need to add a new unitclass or anything.


If the same art for two functionally different units bothers you grab the Hwacha art. :)

Hwacha would definitely fit

I'd use it, if it weren't blatantly Asian..... The Mechanos have an English flavour to them, in my mind. Especially the Clock Tower UB. :lol:

Working on a Master Siegesmith, and I need some more ideas for promotions..... Anyone willing to suggest some? :p

Edit: Might use one of these rather than the trebuchet...... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182956

First off FFH,FF,FF+ are the greatest games I've played. I'm loving everything thats coming outta these teams. Ty,ty,ty so much.

Question: Whats up w/ unit stats? I want to say I remember them working in FF(FFH.34?) but nothing comes up now. Does this have to do w/ the combat log option?

Question: Its obvious to my dino that I seriously need to upgrade. FFH plays fine well past 550 turns (normal speed, small map) FF on the other hand is taking 5 mins (&CTDs) before my next turn. Im trying tiny now, but its still a lot of room for cities (tectonics 30%). I'm using every tweak I know (besides overclocking my dino gear) w/ XP Pro. Usually running between 15-17 processes, depending on what I have going,OS,IM,etc. Are there any tweaks in the game?..Hell terrain off. I would certainly like to play w/ more than 3 civs total. ALSO Im using Dov+..

Dov+ - Effin cool man! I never even loaded the Dov before this. i have fun just running around the tundra w/ packs of animals...Very very cool indeed.
ty

Edit: Orbis too!...Just haven't grabbed it since .40

The unitstats thing used to work, but it broke in one of the last main versions of FF, sadly.

Hmm..... I'd probably close out of the other processes, and make sure to have graphics low. Anytime I play larger than standard I've gotta turn down the graphics myself. :lol:

And I'm glad you like it. :goodjob:

Working on a Master Siegesmith, and I need some more ideas for promotions..... Anyone willing to suggest some? :p

Edit: Might use one of these rather than the trebuchet...... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182956

Heck, grab a couple of those guns. Those are sweeeeet.


Siegesmith promos:

1. Bonus to collateral damage limit, no bombard (grapeshot)
2. Blitz (rapid fire/organ gun/trained crew)
3. Increased number of collateral targets
4. Increased range
5. Damage bonus vs. naval

Using the Organ gun.... May grab some others for a completely unique siege line.

Thank you for the ideas! I think most of them will be in. :goodjob:

any chance of "ORBIS plus" ?? xDD

Haha no. I'd rather not steal too much...... I just always wanted a steam-punkish civ. :lol:

I just discovered that battlemasters don't get the +25% against melee units that other champions get. Caused me much consternation against hordes of infernal champions, and also pyre zombies.

The tundra bonus really isn't enough to counteract that penalty. Tundra isn't too common, and is a bad terrain to have around.

The Mechanos have an English flavour to them, in my mind. Especially the Clock Tower UB. :lol:

Their recon line needs safari hats. Badly.


http://www.mooncostumes.com/image/9962

Oh dear god. :eek: No pith helmets lol.

Wow. A bit easier to set up a master building than I thought...... No spells to mess with, all xml, it's amazing. :lol:

While I'm working on it, does anyone know of good art? I thought I'd found some, but it turns out it's being used for the siege workshop already.

This is what I've got so far for the Siegesmith..... Granted, I just started on it. Didn't take as long as I thought it would. :lol: I might end up making some of these block other ones, but I'm not decided on that yet. I'd rather just have prohibitive costs, but blocking Sighted Shot from the first two might be necessary. I still need buttons, and a few more ideas.... Some of which need to be Mechanos/Khazad exclusive.

Current Siegesmith Promotions:


Grapeshot

2 extra Collateral Targets.
+15% vs Mounted and Melee
-50% Bombard rate.
Requires Gunpowder
60 :gold:

Canister Shot

+40% Collateral Damage.
+1 :strength:
Requires Gunpowder
60 :gold:

Well-Trained

Blitz
100 :gold:

Sighted Shot

+1 Range
Requires Gunpowder
100 :gold:

Heated Shot

+50% vs Naval
25 :gold:

That, well awesome... >.>; Would make siege units more useful at least... you should also make the upgrades able to work on boats though, and maybe even have a master docks or something er other.

I think the boats are well covered by the crew promotions, actually. Might add an Enchanter, but aside from that I can't think of anything really.

I do need to add: The Master Siegesmith is available at machinery, and is NOT required to construct the Master's Hall, because it's available so late.

Expect a reworked Theocracy civic in the next release..... should be sometime over the next few days. After seeing Shatner's idea, I had to make it. :lol:


I would offer a moderate religion-happy bonus (+3), reduce the unhappiness duration of whipping by 50%, a -25% penalty to science and it would grant all disciple units (even those already built) the "Zealotry" promotion (which would vanish if you changed civics). This promotion would allow them to inquisition non-state religions, upgrade for half price, give them healing while moving, a slight bonus attacking cities (+20%) and a variant of the rally ability, called Incite Fervor. This spell, which has a casting time of 2 or 3 turns and requires the state religion in the city, would reduce the city population by 3, temporarily reduce happiness (like whipping, so reduced in duration by 50%) by 3 (negating your happy-bonus) and spawn 3 acolyte units. These could then be upgraded (at half price) to priests or be upgraded (again at half price) into the combat variant of that religion (paramanders, crusaders, stygian guard, etc.). This would allow theocracy civs to rapidly mobilize an army of disciple units at the cost of their population/happiness AND allow those disciple units to become an effective mob. At the very least, it would be different, interesting and solidly change the role of Theocracy.


I can't influence hurry anger, but the way I have it is +3 :) with the state religion, +1 :mad: per non-state. +10% :commerce:, -25% :science:, and the Zealotry setup. Right now I know the promotion is applying, and the (1 turn!) Inquisition is working. The Incite spell wasn't when I tested it, but I used a == instead of a =, so that should be fixed.... I'll test again when I wake up. :lol:

Machinery? I think that's a really bad idea.

Please make it available at construction. Half the fun of master buildings is being able to build them early, and unlocking new goodies as you go down the tech tree. You can have tech prereqs on individual promotions, you know.

Main thing is none of the other master buildings are available with the first tech you need to start producing the units.

Main thing is none of the other master buildings are available with the first tech you need to start producing the units.

?

Master fletcher is available at Archery. Hunting for Outfitter, I think. ok, granted, the first recon unit is a scout, but they're not useful for much.


I've played quite a few games where I rushed Archery, then Construction, popped a Great Engineer as my first GP, and built a master fletcher right away.


Besides, there's a lot of difference between the First appropriate tech, and the one right at the distant destination of an endgame tech path. It would be like the Master Smith requiring Mythril working, or Armoured Cavalry for the Rancher. Or Animal Mastery for the Outfitter. Or Precision for the fletcher.

You get the idea.

The rancher is about the latest one as is, requiring feudalism. I've never understood that choice personally, and I was actually thinking of changing it to horseback riding. But regardless, Machinery is far too late. Construction is far enough in the tech tree to be a good choice, I think. The next reasonable option is Mathematics, which also could work. I feel Engineering is too late though, as that's a tech I'd rather see some nice siege upgrades unlocked, for the siegesmith you should have already built.


tl;dr, Construction or Mathematics as prereq, please.

Hmm... Maybe Mathematics. I just don't like it being available too early, as these promotions will be powerful. Especially if you're willing to take them all together. :lol:

Hmm... Maybe Mathematics. I just don't like it being available too early, as these promotions will be powerful. Especially if you're willing to take them all together. :lol:

Then make lesser versions of the promotions first. Similar to high quality bronze and "fine" tack/kit. Better versions unlocked later with more techs.

Tie the really good promos to engineering, machinery, and blasting powder. but give some decent basic stuff early on for khazad/dural/luchuirp et al, to want to go for.

Aye, part of the idea is to make people "buy in" repeatedly. A true cash sink.

1. Goliath is super-cool...but as a hero he runs out of siege promotions VERY quickly. He should be unitcombat Melee...his main purpose is kicking down walls and shooting people in the face, not sieges.

2. A less-powerful, non-heroic version of Goliath with scaled down art would be nice to have as an immortal or berserker UU. Also unitcombat melee, please. Maybe require machinery and medicine?

Been busy but I finally got to an "I win" state with Mechanos. It wasn't easy. Due to coaxing by the Luchuirp I DoW'd D'Tesh when he was unreachable on the other side of the map. He proceeded to pick off my workers with his damn invisible scouts. Doviello was a bit of a pain too. Mahala kept churning out mega-promoted assassins and picking off my trebuchets. We got caught in a stalemate on opposite sides of a river, firing arrows, javalins and siege weapons at each other for what must have been like 50 turns. But they fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is to never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well known is never join a shooting match with the Mechanos! :mwaha:

Siege weapons aside, Mechanos are clearly a late game civ. They can hold out early thanks to their copper but mid game they fall behind. They really need to rush the engineering line to get their powerful units. Once they do, and they've got their hands on some mana and gunpowder, look out.

As far as I can tell the strategy for beating Mechanos is this: Kill them before they can get Musketmen. But you're screwed anyway because then they'll kill you with their Trebuchets and Howitzers. :twitch:

A few bugs:
Blimps can free themselves from a cage.
Power plants cause +4:yuck: instead of +2:yuck: as mentioned in the civilopedia. It also should be clear that the :yuck: is from the power and not the building and as such a sewer will not affect it. Maybe it is clear and I'm just daft.
The free promotion Corned Powder for gunpowder units is bugged. If you mouse over it you'll get a CTD. To fix it remove the reference to UNIT_GALLEASS in line 15884 of units/civ4promotioninfos.xml .
And more than a few observances:

I went almost 100 turns on republic and no elections. Bah!
I also never got to see a nuclear meltdown. Just what exactly do those do?
Sometimes I would create a unit and it would mutate. These mutations are almost always good. I only gotten enervated twice). Behold my strong, light, cannibalizing, blitzing witchhunter (see screenshot.) This is by far the best mutation I have ever received. It was so good I named the unit.
I was seeing some masses of seriously promoted archer units. I've enclosed a screenshot. I don't know why this is but I've never seen it before. All the lizardmen have the same promotion and I think the dwarf slingers are promoted the same.
Remove the mana from the palace. I agree with VK in that it doesn't make sense. In fact, Mechanos shouldn't be able to use any mana at all. The palace should prevent that (much like how Overcouncil bans some mana.) There are wonders that can be built and events that can happen that don't make sense for a civ that disdains magic. Perhaps they should be given unique resources they can trade to other civs. Wristwatches :) and Stimutacs :health: or something.
Refined mana affinity + siege weapons is definitely overpowered. Especially if you are playing with wild mana and there's a lot around. The +100% city attack bonuses for siege engines were designed with them having very low strengths. With just two refined mana a 1 str trebuchet becomes 3 str with a built in +400%. That's a 12 str city attacker, unpromoted, with just construction and KotE. You are only two promotions away from 18 str city attack. It's even more devastating on howitzers who can actually kill units. One of the mechanics (affinity or +100% city attack increments) has to go.
Howitzers need a damage cap like all siege weapons. They are tough enough as is with an additional move and blitz. Once I got them, with all the refined mana I had, everything died to their attack and the units hit by collateral damage were at death's door. I brought a howitzer to Combat V Acheron's gate ... 99.9% chance of killing him. I've never even seen odds like that vs. the big bad dragon.
Blimps are great. It was nice that they scaled up as I got more refined mana so that I didn't really need any other ships until Ironclads. They act a bit peculiar though. They usually can't move into any land spaces touching a coast. They will try if you aren't careful with your pathing, in which case they will disgorge their contents onto that square. I lost some fragile units this way.
Mechanos have two very late game heroes. Goliath is OP in the same way siege engines with affinity are. I do think he should be the endgame unit, much like the dragon for the Mechanos. I'd also add some difficult techs to his requirements though. Arcane Lore and Feral Bond should do it. I should probably take this to the Orbis board but these two very strong heroes seems like a bit much for the civ.
Musketmen are incredibly strong. Not only are they tougher than the standard arquebusiers, they can use mithril weapons! Once I had hold of mithril, with the bloodglass master equipment, I was churning out 16 str units. Not even national units. Gunpowder units that ignore building defenses. I understand that this requires two endline techs and two rare resources (one of which can be gained with a wonder) to achieve, so it is something that has to be worked for. But they are, and logically so, the toughest end game units on Erebus. Perhaps too tough.
Witch Hunters are strong, I like them. But I think their should be a little more tech involved. Make them require Priesthood as well. With way of the wicked they can start with scourge. With way of the wise they can start with undead slaying.
I really don't like having useless tech trees. Mechanos doesn't need either the arcane OR the disciple trees, which is a very powerful advantage. Techpriests I think start way too early at philosophy. Considering how powerful they are, I would even move them to fanaticism. Some additional bonuses could be given to Mechanos if they work these trees. Like perhaps they can't work pre-set mana nodes unless they researched the tech first. And maybe the machine spirit promotion isn't available until sorcery.
I don't like Steamworks this late. By the time you get alchemy you already have a very large empire. My Steamworks started giving me 40:science: a turn! But by the time I had alchemy most of the hard work was done and I quickly ran out of techs. This should be put much earlier so you have a choice to wait for more :science: per turn or to start it now where it will have more of an impact.

Phew. Fun civ!

In general I think the refined mana affinity needs work. Even blimps became powerhouses after my 10th mana. Perhaps a promotion that grants all units +10% strength per mana? Even that will be too strong with 10 manas. I think the problem is the civ has an affinity to something that it can turn every mana node into. Maybe my suggestion of requiring the appropriate arcane techs for refining certain nodes might slow this down.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it the more the abilities of a techpriest should perhaps be tied to the arcane techs. Repair at Alteration, Entrench at Elementalism, Machine Spirit at Necromancy and you could give them a Reveal type spell at Divination to let them see invisible/stealthed units.

I'd hate to see the affinity go...and I like the idea of lethal siege weapons. The bonus to city attack definitely needs to go away though.


Do the Mechanos have an inquisitor unit? It would be nice if adeptus or techpriests could root out any nasty superstitions that spread to civilized cities.

It would be cool if any 4 masters buildings allowed you to build the... err.... master master building. Not sure if that's possible with buildings though.

This is what I've got so far for the Siegesmith..... Granted, I just started on it. Didn't take as long as I thought it would. :lol: I might end up making some of these block other ones, but I'm not decided on that yet. I'd rather just have prohibitive costs, but blocking Sighted Shot from the first two might be necessary. I still need buttons, and a few more ideas.... Some of which need to be Mechanos/Khazad exclusive.

This is good but I personally think shots should be exclusive and promotions to the machinery or crew can be stacked. It also seems to me the bonuses for catapults would be very different than those for cannons. Most of those shots (except for heated shot) look like they are just for cannons. I'd differentiate between the two. This will also mean that upgrading will conveniently wipe out your bought promotions like upgrading weaponry does.

Something to keep in mind is blitz isn't terribly useful. Siege weapons can't get mobility promotions and none of themhave more than one move apart from the Mechanos howitzer. And it starts with blitz anyway.

Below are my suggested additions. It might be a few too many, guess I went overboard.

Catapult/Trebuchet shots. These can't be used by cannons. All are exclusive and should be removed if another is aquired.:

Plague Infested Shot

Requires Evil
Requires Sheaim or Infernal or Balseraphs or Legion of D'Tesh civilization
0.50:yuck: in enemy cities within 1 tile
+10% ranged damage limit
+10% collateral damage limit
Passes the Diseased promotion to enemy combatants
30 :gold:

Blackblood Shot

Requires Scions of Patria civilization
Requires a Spirit Mill in the city
+1 ranged attack
+5% ranged damage limit
+10% collateral damage limit
Passes the Blackblood promotion to enemy combatants
50 :gold:

Flaming Shot

+5% bombard per turn
+1:strength: Fire
+50% forest attack
+50% naval units
Requires Smelting
50 :gold:

Explosive Shot (designed for civs that can't build cannons)

+15% bombard per turn
+2:strength:
+25% city attack
+1 ranged attack
+5% ranged damage limit
Requires Blasting Powder
120 :gold:


General promotions. If they can't be used by cannons/catapults they'll be listed.:

Fine Craftsmanship

+10% :strength:
0-1 extra first strike
Requires Construction
Removed if Excellent Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
30:gold:

Excellent Craftsmanship

+20% :strength:
1 extra first strike
Requires Engineering
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
40:gold:

Superior Craftsmanship

+30% :strength:
1-2 extra first strikes
+20% city attack
Requires Mithril Working
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Excellent Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
80:gold:

Artisan Crafted

Requires Khazad or Luchuirp or Mechanos civilization
+40% :strength:
2-3 extra first strikes
+30% city attack
+20% defense
Requires Machinery
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Excellent Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship promotion is taken
120:gold:

Improved Machinery

Requires Khazad civilization
+1 range
Requires Optics
Requires Trebuchet
50:gold:

Artillery

Requires Khazad civilization
+1 range
Requires Astronomy
Requires Dwarven Cannon
100:gold:

Improved Accuracy

+1 ranged attack
+10% ranged attack limit
Requires Optics
80:gold:

Deadeye Crew

Requires Khazad or Mechanos civilization
+1 ranged attack
+10% ranged attack limit
1 first strike
Requires Guilds
180:gold:

Point Defense System

Requires Khazad or Mechanos civilization
+100% defensive strength
+25% hill defense
Requires Iron Working
40:gold:

Doubletime Team

Requires Khazad or Mechanos or Austrin or Hippus civilization
+1:move:
+1 terrain cost
-50%:strength:
Requires Horseback Riding
40:gold:

Resident Machine Spirit

Requires Mechanos civilization
Randomly grants the Machine Spirit promotion (20% turn)
Requires Arcane Lore
200:gold:

Hmm, is Khazad going to end up being steam punk lite? Check out this robot:
http://superpunch.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-giant-robot-from-ashley-wood.html

1. Goliath is super-cool...but as a hero he runs out of siege promotions VERY quickly. He should be unitcombat Melee...his main purpose is kicking down walls and shooting people in the face, not sieges.

2. A less-powerful, non-heroic version of Goliath with scaled down art would be nice to have as an immortal or berserker UU. Also unitcombat melee, please. Maybe require machinery and medicine?

1. What I'd LIKE to do, is give him the ability to CHOOSE his unitcombat. He can perform like a melee unit, as he does now, OR he can become a siege unit, with his unitcombat and stats changing to reflect it... Should allow him to keep all his promotions, although I'd probably need unique siege promotions for him.

2. They actually have the Grenadier for a berserker, but it could make a good immortal..... Make it directly buildable and non-immortal, but powerful?


Been busy but I finally got to an "I win" state with Mechanos. It wasn't easy. Due to coaxing by the Luchuirp I DoW'd D'Tesh when he was unreachable on the other side of the map. He proceeded to pick off my workers with his damn invisible scouts. Doviello was a bit of a pain too. Mahala kept churning out mega-promoted assassins and picking off my trebuchets. We got caught in a stalemate on opposite sides of a river, firing arrows, javalins and siege weapons at each other for what must have been like 50 turns. But they fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is to never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well known is never join a shooting match with the Mechanos!

Siege weapons aside, Mechanos are clearly a late game civ. They can hold out early thanks to their copper but mid game they fall behind. They really need to rush the engineering line to get their powerful units. Once they do, and they've got their hands on some mana and gunpowder, look out.

As far as I can tell the strategy for beating Mechanos is this: Kill them before they can get Musketmen. But you're screwed anyway because then they'll kill you with their Trebuchets and Howitzers.

A few bugs:

Blimps can free themselves from a cage.
Power plants cause +4:yuck: instead of +2 as mentioned in the civilopedia. It also should be clear that the unhealth is from the power and not the building and as such a sewer will not affect it. Maybe it is clear and I'm just daft.
The free promotion Corned Powder for gunpowder units is bugged. If you mouse over it you'll get a CTD. To fix it remove the reference to UNIT_GALLEASS in line 15884 of units/civ4promotioninfos.xml .

No idea what's causing the blimp issue, but some of the tags are wonky on it... Need to go through and fix it so it works correctly.

I think it WOULD be clear, if there were a power icon.

I'd actually thought I fixed that...... I specifically remember removing the line when I imported it, but I did end up importing it 3 times before I figured out what was causing a crash.

Going to just reply next to each bullet here....



And more than a few observances:

I went almost 100 turns on republic and no elections. Bah! Hmm..... I don't think I did anything there, but I'll check it.
I also never got to see a nuclear meltdown. Just what exactly do those do? Honestly, I do not know. That's from Orbis... I do know the odds are very low. Should be about the same as a mine discovering a metal.
Sometimes I would create a unit and it would mutate. These mutations are almost always good. I only gotten enervated twice). Behold my strong, light, cannibalizing, blitzing witchhunter (see screenshot.) This is by far the best mutation I have ever received. It was so good I named the unit. Did you have Chaos mana?
I was seeing some masses of seriously promoted archer units. I've enclosed a screenshot. I don't know why this is but I've never seen it before. All the lizardmen have the same promotion and I think the dwarf slingers are promoted the same. I think this is because of the way wounded units do not retreat from archers.
Remove the mana from the palace. I agree with VK in that it doesn't make sense. In fact, Mechanos shouldn't be able to use any mana at all. The palace should prevent that (much like how Overcouncil bans some mana.) There are wonders that can be built and events that can happen that don't make sense for a civ that disdains magic. Perhaps they should be given unique resources they can trade to other civs. Wristwatches :) and Stimutacs :health: or something. Not sure if I can prevent mana in cities, without making a UU for EVERY building that provides Mana...
Refined mana affinity + siege weapons is definitely overpowered. Especially if you are playing with wild mana and there's a lot around. The +100% city attack bonuses for siege engines were designed with them having very low strengths. With just two refined mana a 1 str trebuchet becomes 3 str with a built in +400%. That's a 12 str city attacker, unpromoted, with just construction and KotE. You are only two promotions away from 18 str city attack. It's even more devastating on howitzers who can actually kill units. One of the mechanics (affinity or +100% city attack increments) has to go. Already decided to remove the city attack, and probably nerf the affinity as well.
Howitzers need a damage cap like all siege weapons. They are tough enough as is with an additional move and blitz. Once I got them, with all the refined mana I had, everything died to their attack and the units hit by collateral damage were at death's door. I brought a howitzer to Combat V Acheron's gate ... 99.9% chance of killing him. I've never even seen odds like that vs. the big bad dragon. I like them able to directly kill... I might take away all their collateral, and without the city attack they shouldn't be quite as fierce.
Blimps are great. It was nice that they scaled up as I got more refined mana so that I didn't really need any other ships until Ironclads. They act a bit peculiar though. They usually can't move into any land spaces touching a coast. They will try if you aren't careful with your pathing, in which case they will disgorge their contents onto that square. I lost some fragile units this way. Yeah, some tag is messed up there, I've noticed that too.. Need to go through it. Already have my Wyrmfisher as a base, so it shouldn't be hard.
Mechanos have two very late game heroes. Goliath is OP in the same way siege engines with affinity are. I do think he should be the endgame unit, much like the dragon for the Mechanos. I'd also add some difficult techs to his requirements though. Arcane Lore and Feral Bond should do it. I should probably take this to the Orbis board but these two very strong heroes seems like a bit much for the civ. I agree, I think I'm going to increase his strength and size but make him harder to get.... Might move Feris down in the tech tree as well.
Musketmen are incredibly strong. Not only are they tougher than the standard arquebusiers, they can use mithril weapons! Once I had hold of mithril, with the bloodglass master equipment, I was churning out 16 str units. Not even national units. Gunpowder units that ignore building defenses. I understand that this requires two endline techs and two rare resources (one of which can be gained with a wonder) to achieve, so it is something that has to be worked for. But they are, and logically so, the toughest end game units on Erebus. Perhaps too tough. Mithril is a magical metal, so I think I might block their UU's from it entirely. I think they're strong enough without it...
Witch Hunters are strong, I like them. But I think their should be a little more tech involved. Make them require Priesthood as well. With way of the wicked they can start with scourge. With way of the wise they can start with undead slaying. Agreed. The tech requirement was from Orbis, and doesn't quite match.
I really don't like having useless tech trees. Mechanos doesn't need either the arcane OR the disciple trees, which is a very powerful advantage. Techpriests I think start way too early at philosophy. Considering how powerful they are, I would even move them to fanaticism. Some additional bonuses could be given to Mechanos if they work these trees. Like perhaps they can't work pre-set mana nodes unless they researched the tech first. And maybe the machine spirit promotion isn't available until sorcery. That's.... An excellent idea. I've been trying to figure out how to make the magic tree useful... Didn't want to block it entirely. And I think I'll move Techpriests like you suggested... definitely powerful units.
I don't like Steamworks this late. By the time you get alchemy you already have a very large empire. My Steamworks started giving me 40:science: a turn! But by the time I had alchemy most of the hard work was done and I quickly ran out of techs. This should be put much earlier so you have a choice to wait for more :science: per turn or to start it now where it will have more of an impact. Hmm... I think I'll allow it from Construction. What do you think of the Power Plants? Too late?


Phew. Fun civ!

In general I think the refined mana affinity needs work. Even blimps became powerhouses after my 10th mana. Perhaps a promotion that grants all units +10% strength per mana? Even that will be too strong with 10 manas. I think the problem is the civ has an affinity to something that it can turn every mana node into. Maybe my suggestion of requiring the appropriate arcane techs for refining certain nodes might slow this down.

EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it the more the abilities of a techpriest should perhaps be tied to the arcane techs. Repair at Alteration, Entrench at Elementalism, Machine Spirit at Necromancy and you could give them a Reveal type spell at Divination to let them see invisible/stealthed units.

I think I might make a few Dispel clones, for each group of mana. Research Elementalism, you can dispel elemental manas, etc. Should make it more balanced towards the Wild Mana option. I definitely like the idea of tying Techpriest abilities to the mana techs as well, although Machine Spirit seems more divine than arcane.

I'd hate to see the affinity go...and I like the idea of lethal siege weapons. The bonus to city attack definitely needs to go away though.


Do the Mechanos have an inquisitor unit? It would be nice if adeptus or techpriests could root out any nasty superstitions that spread to civilized cities.

I BELIEVE the Techpriest has it, though I might be wrong.... And the city attack bonus is definitely gone. I like the differentiation between the Mechanos and the Khazad there... The Khazad have better traditional siege, while the Mechanos have developped siege towards a different end.

It would be cool if any 4 masters buildings allowed you to build the... err.... master master building. Not sure if that's possible with buildings though.

Should be easy to set up through the 'CanBuild' python check. Not sure though, if I'm moving the Master Siegesmith back I think I'll just leave it requiring all five.

This is good but I personally think shots should be exclusive and promotions to the machinery or crew can be stacked. It also seems to me the bonuses for catapults would be very different than those for cannons. Most of those shots (except for heated shot) look like they are just for cannons. I'd differentiate between the two. This will also mean that upgrading will conveniently wipe out your bought promotions like upgrading weaponry does.

Something to keep in mind is blitz isn't terribly useful. Siege weapons can't get mobility promotions and none of themhave more than one move apart from the Mechanos howitzer. And it starts with blitz anyway.

Below are my suggested additions. It might be a few too many, guess I went overboard.

Catapult/Trebuchet shots. These can't be used by cannons. All are exclusive and should be removed if another is aquired.:


Plague Infested Shot

Requires Evil
Requires Sheaim or Infernal or Balseraphs or Legion of D'Tesh civilization
0.50:yuck: in enemy cities within 1 tile
+10% ranged damage limit
+10% collateral damage limit
Passes the Diseased promotion to enemy combatants
30 :gold:


Blackblood Shot

Requires Scions of Patria civilization
Requires a Spirit Mill in the city
+1 ranged attack
+5% ranged damage limit
+10% collateral damage limit
Passes the Blackblood promotion to enemy combatants
50 :gold:


Flaming Shot

+5% bombard per turn
+1:strength: Fire
+50% forest attack
+50% naval units
Requires Smelting
50 :gold:


Explosive Shot (designed for civs that can't build cannons)

+15% bombard per turn
+2:strength:
+25% city attack
+1 ranged attack
+5% ranged damage limit
Requires Blasting Powder
120 :gold:



General promotions. If they can't be used by cannons/catapults they'll be listed.:

Fine Craftsmanship

+10% :strength:
0-1 extra first strike
Requires Construction
Removed if Excellent Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
30:gold:


Excellent Craftsmanship

+20% :strength:
1 extra first strike
Requires Engineering
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
40:gold:


Superior Craftsmanship

+30% :strength:
1-2 extra first strikes
+20% city attack
Requires Mithril Working
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Excellent Craftsmanship or Artisan Crafted promotion is taken
80:gold:


Artisan Crafted

Requires Khazad or Luchuirp or Mechanos civilization
+40% :strength:
2-3 extra first strikes
+30% city attack
+20% defense
Requires Machinery
Removed if Fine Craftsmanship or Excellent Craftsmanship or Superior Craftsmanship promotion is taken
120:gold:


Improved Machinery

Requires Khazad civilization
+1 range
Requires Optics
Requires Trebuchet
50:gold:


Artillery

Requires Khazad civilization
+1 range
Requires Astronomy
Requires Dwarven Cannon
100:gold:


Improved Accuracy

+1 ranged attack
+10% ranged attack limit
Requires Optics
80:gold:


Deadeye Crew

Requires Khazad or Mechanos civilization
+1 ranged attack
+10% ranged attack limit
1 first strike
Requires Guilds
180:gold:


Point Defense System

Requires Khazad or Mechanos civilization
+100% defensive strength
+25% hill defense
Requires Iron Working
40:gold:


Doubletime Team

Requires Khazad or Mechanos or Austrin or Hippus civilization
+1:move:
+1 terrain cost
-50%:strength:
Requires Horseback Riding
40:gold:


Resident Machine Spirit

Requires Mechanos civilization
Randomly grants the Machine Spirit promotion (20% turn)
Requires Arcane Lore
200:gold:







I'm speechless. That is an AMAZING list. And I like your idea about the Shot types, it lets me force you to repeatedly buy them without it being too gamey. :goodjob:

You can change unitcombat through promotion. I don't have it run Validation checks when you change unitcombat in this manner either, so he would be allowed to maintain all promotions.

That's actually exactly what I had in mind. :lol: Sort of a 'crew' promotion he can take at any time.... Or maybe make it a spell, so I can create a delay of a turn or two? Should take a little time for him to shift gears. :lol:

It's just too bad you can't specify multiple unitcombats.... Horse Archers should be Mounted AND Archer, for example.

That is the eventual goal, but leads to massive rewrite requirements, so shifting UCs works for now. If you want a hybrid, you define a new unitcombat which happens to always be included with each of the others.

Hmm.... Is there anything special I'd have to do to designate a unitcombat, or is it XML only?

1. What I'd LIKE to do, is give him the ability to CHOOSE his unitcombat. He can perform like a melee unit, as he does now, OR he can become a siege unit, with his unitcombat and stats changing to reflect it... Should allow him to keep all his promotions, although I'd probably need unique siege promotions for him.

I like this idea a lot. Goliath could plant his feet and become a city bombarding ranged damage dealing siege machine. Or he could just charge and kill everything in his path. For some reason the phrase "Autobots transform and roll out." sticks in my head. It's a good thing.

2. They actually have the Grenadier for a berserker, but it could make a good immortal..... Make it directly buildable and non-immortal, but powerful?

It makes sense to me that a civ that forsakes all the gods and all magic should be deprived of immortality. It's quite fitting. In fact, I think it should be permanent +4:mad: in all cities if you have the gall to research Divine Essence as a Mechanos when there are future techs to be had! A hefty price to pay for Blood of the Phoenix. Oh yeah, that reminds me. There should probably be a penalty for completing rituals too. Civ-wide anarchy for some variable amount of turns. Your people will not be happy if you say one thing and do another. Of course I'm sure the AI will cripple themselves with this.

I definitely like the idea of tying Techpriest abilities to the mana techs as well, although Machine Spirit seems more divine than arcane.

I agree. I'm actually quite comfortable at stopping the important techs right before sorcery. Arcane Lore and Pass Through the Ether have enough good stuff in them that any civ can benefit, so I think it would be nice if Mechanos had to pay for a worthless tech before they could get the crown of Akharen and the Nexus. The more I played Mechanos the more I was reminded of Warhammer 40k. Fanaticism seems appropriate for machine spirit.

Okay, this isn't quoting right so I'm going to try not to be messy. My response in RED.
* I also never got to see a nuclear meltdown. Just what exactly do those do? Honestly, I do not know. That's from Orbis... I do know the odds are very low. Should be about the same as a mine discovering a metal. Shows how long it's been since I've played plain ol' Civ4. I think it's a BtS event for when you have a nuclear power plant. I'll check/post in the Orbis forum, it's definitely something that should be in the civilopedia. And that reminds me, I discovered four resources in my game. As a baseline comparison, the most I've ever found until this game was two ... and that happened once. Most games I find zero, and I'm lucky if I find one. That's even with lots of earth mana. I guess having over ten mana types that give you additional chances to find new resources might do that. Maybe that needs to be reduced?
* Sometimes I would create a unit and it would mutate. These mutations are almost always good. I only gotten enervated twice). Behold my strong, light, cannibalizing, blitzing witchhunter (see screenshot.) This is by far the best mutation I have ever received. It was so good I named the unit. Did you have Chaos mana? Valki please! I checked to make sure I didn't have anything that might mutate. You can check the screenshot if you don't believe I didn't have chaos mana. Looking back it happened three times. Apart from Lazarus my uber Witch Hunter I also got two mutated musketmen, who apart from their enervated promotion had quite good mutations as well. Hmm... would be kinda cool if Power Plants could mutate units at maybe 1/10th the rate that Chaos mana does.
* Remove the mana from the palace. I agree with VK in that it doesn't make sense. In fact, Mechanos shouldn't be able to use any mana at all. The palace should prevent that (much like how Overcouncil bans some mana.) There are wonders that can be built and events that can happen that don't make sense for a civ that disdains magic. Perhaps they should be given unique resources they can trade to other civs. Wristwatches :) and Stimutacs :health: or something. Not sure if I can prevent mana in cities, without making a UU for EVERY building that provides Mana... One thing that happened in nearly all of the games I started was I got the event that would let me create a +Fire affinity staff item if I had enchantment mana. I was kinda hoping that Xienwolf would step in here and say "Oh ho! Yes you can!" In compromise I was suggesting that the Mechanos palace could have built in multiple resources that could be used to trade. Perhaps it's more trouble than it's worth.
...
* Howitzers need a damage cap like all siege weapons. They are tough enough as is with an additional move and blitz. Once I got them, with all the refined mana I had, everything died to their attack and the units hit by collateral damage were at death's door. I brought a howitzer to Combat V Acheron's gate ... 99.9% chance of killing him. I've never even seen odds like that vs. the big bad dragon. I like them able to directly kill... I might take away all their collateral, and without the city attack they shouldn't be quite as fierce. I didn't notice that cannons also have the ability to directly kill, so I'm content leaving that in so long as their other issues are addressed.
...
* Musketmen are incredibly strong. Not only are they tougher than the standard arquebusiers, they can use mithril weapons! Once I had hold of mithril, with the bloodglass master equipment, I was churning out 16 str units. Not even national units. Gunpowder units that ignore building defenses. I understand that this requires two endline techs and two rare resources (one of which can be gained with a wonder) to achieve, so it is something that has to be worked for. But they are, and logically so, the toughest end game units on Erebus. Perhaps too tough. Mithril is a magical metal, so I think I might block their UU's from it entirely. I think they're strong enough without it... I agree. Bloodglass and Flamethrowers is enough of a reason to tech mithril anyway.
* Witch Hunters are strong, I like them. But I think their should be a little more tech involved. Make them require Priesthood as well. With way of the wicked they can start with scourge. With way of the wise they can start with undead slaying. Agreed. The tech requirement was from Orbis, and doesn't quite match. Heh, don't think I ever got them in my Orbis games. After thinking about it, I think Way of the Wise/Wicked should allow for Mechanos civ-specific master promotions for recon units. Scourge and Undead Slaying promotions for a relatively cheap fee.
* I really don't like having useless tech trees. Mechanos doesn't need either the arcane OR the disciple trees, which is a very powerful advantage. Techpriests I think start way too early at philosophy. Considering how powerful they are, I would even move them to fanaticism. Some additional bonuses could be given to Mechanos if they work these trees. Like perhaps they can't work pre-set mana nodes unless they researched the tech first. And maybe the machine spirit promotion isn't available until sorcery. That's.... An excellent idea. I've been trying to figure out how to make the magic tree useful... Didn't want to block it entirely. And I think I'll move Techpriests like you suggested... definitely powerful units. What irked me was Mechanos got both machine spirit (which is really nice) and Vitalize (which is ... uh, a T3 nature spell) with Philosophy. Both of these have to be delayed. The more I think about it, vitalize might have to be somewhere in the useless part of a tech tree, like Commune with Nature. Machine Spirit could then be part of Alteration (which, conveniently, is what Great Sages can lightbulb.)
* I don't like Steamworks this late. By the time you get alchemy you already have a very large empire. My Steamworks started giving me 40 a turn! But by the time I had alchemy most of the hard work was done and I quickly ran out of techs. This should be put much earlier so you have a choice to wait for more per turn or to start it now where it will have more of an impact. Hmm... I think I'll allow it from Construction. What do you think of the Power Plants? Too late? As is, Mechanos has a ludicrously good synergy with the Guild of Hammers. New cities have a free factory, which lets them turn a citizen into an engineer with +1:hammers:. Four hammers is more than you'll get off of almost any plot, so take it. Use it to build a power plant. Once done you get a free (four hammer) engineer plus another +50%:hammers:. And power plants don't take long to build. 180:hammers: is not enough, I'd double that. 400:hammers: for a power plant. Yes it was a pain getting them late, but once I did production became irrelevant. +50%:hammers: is equivalent to God King in any city it's built. I definitely think power plants should come later.
Personally I think the Steam tech needs to return. Maybe it should require construction and be built off of Philosophy, only by the Mechanos. It would allow refineries and their worldspell, and be required for pretty much every UU and UB. Then with, say, Machinery, they've perfected their steam engines into devices that can give them power and allow them to create the Power Plant UB. As for refineries, they certainly became quite fertile plots. I'm all for techs improving plot yields, but concealing them in undesirable techs is a better way to achieve this I think.

Regarding the siege promotions, glad you like them. Was too busy to post the last few days and I guess the ideas just kinda built up. Obviously they need to be tested but I was leaning towards non-standard siege promotions. Especially promotions that might make them survive encounters with those damned assassins. Plus I missed my Balseraphs catapulting cows into their hapless foes.

Oh that reminds me. How come in my Mechanos game my witch hunters would still try to kill fully healed champions when 0.0str catapults were available? At the same time my trebuchets were being consistently sabotaged by Doviello assassins? I'd like it if marksmen couldn't target siege weapons unless they had a "sabateur" promotion, and then they could only attack once per turn.

New Unitcombat can be made with just XML. Start in Assets/XML/BasicInfos/CIV4UnitCombatInfos.xml and then apply where needed (Unit/Promotions mostly)

I ain't quoting all that. :)


1. Mechanos units are definitely mutating. I assumed it was a side-effect of refined mana, which has flavor text about radiation sickness. I see it as a feature, not a bug. :)

2. I really, really hate making the Mechanos research useless techs to get access to scattered goodies. Either sprinkle benefits for them at every tech or give them a unique line to research. Allowing them to build temples to the machine spirit and spread the cult like a religion would make the priesthood line useful, for example....

3. Moving vitalize for them is a bad idea, IMO. That is the only way they have to terraform. If you move it too high up the tree you doom them if they get a mediocre/bad start.

4. The melee line for them feels totally wrong. Bare-chested guys w/clubs, lunatics w/axes, medieval champions with sword and board....blechh. Game mechanics make it optimal to use a stack of the traditional melee units along with the nasty siege units...but I feel dirty doing it.

If it was up to me I'd replace warriors with a 2 power disciple unit (Machine cult acolyte?). Allow bronze, upgrade to archer, adeptus, or horseman. Give bonus to city defense so you don't die to orc rush. Replace axeman and champions with combat robots, cyborg thralls....anything non-medieval.

On that note...archers of all sorts need to go away, at least in terms of art. Guns all around.

5. Like the changes proposed to Goliath. Mini-Goliaths at Immortal would be perfect. Not sure immortality is necessarily a bad thing...can simulate rebuilding the thing.

Going to use this post to track my progress, I've edited it with enough updates. :lol:

I think I'm going to allow Goliath to change unitcombats, with a delay of a turn or two...

Just wanted to say that the Master building is coming along nicely, after which I'll be making most of the balance changes that have been suggested. Should be done by friday, if not, sometime this weekend. :lol:

Edit: The Shot promotions are done, and all overwrite each other. Just need to put in the general promotions.... :goodjob:

Edit2: Jesus. Just spent half an hour trying to figure out why some of the shot promotions weren't working, when I realized they required gunpowder..... :wallbash:

Edit3: All the promotions are done. Testing them now.

Edit4: They're all working perfectly..... Although the Howitzer, with it's 2 range, combined with Sighted Shot and it's +1 range, is rather nasty. :eek: Gonna go back to the initial promotions, and fix them up to be valid trade-offs rather than entirely good. All the Shot promotions should be like that.

Edit5: Blimp is now working correctly.

Anyone know of some decent siege promotion artwork? Right now I'm following a friends advice and searching through TD games. :lol:

Went ahead and updated the first post with a (far from complete!) changelog..... I THINK I got all the major items.

I just realized I still haven't tested your Mechanos. I guess I'm late :lol: My apologies, I didn't find much time to play this days :(

Oh, you're merging Monstruous Creatures?! Damn, your modmod is bigger and bigger every day. You silly modder! :crazyeye:

Haha yes, it does... It's sort of exploded. The current build for the new "patch" is about 4 times larger than the original installer..... Most of that is because I need to clean up the art, but it's still a massive increase. :lol:

Edit: Went in and looked... Turns out that Refined Mana DOES have a small mutate chance on it, half that of Chaos mana. I'm calling it a feature and leaving it..... The pedia entry already states that hundreds of workers died before they learned the stuff was radioactive. Think Ahwaric put it there on purpose. :lol:

Edit2: Wow. I have to say, when I first looked at it CvMainScreenInterface looked rather confusing, but after working with it I think Xienwolf set it up nicely.... Refined Mana is now in the mana list widget, btw. :goodjob: Makes it an even 22 buttons, so it looks much better to me..... Always bugged me that the columns were uneven. :lol:

Got a rather large balance decision to make.... I want the priesthood line of techs to be useful. Already moving the Techpriest to Fanaticism, but I don't think it's enough. Now, as with most of the other 'Agnostic' civilizations, the Mechanos in actuality have their own religion, the worship of machines... I'm rather tired of these religions only represented in game by pedia entries and ubs. I like to track my religions. :lol:

I could represent that via something like the Emperor's Mark, but I don't really like that system, mostly because you can't track which cities have it easily. The other two options would be to make a guild, or a full fledged religion. Right now, I'm thinking the final option would be the most interesting.

So, my preliminary ideas... The Apparat (Any better name suggestions?). Either automatically founded in the Mechanos capital, or founded normally after researching Steam Power, a Mechanos only tech. Mechanos lose agnostic, gain a new trait, Insular? that does nothing but state they can only adopt The Apparat. The religion provides 1 :beakers: to all cities it's in, and 2:commerce:2:beakers: in the holy city. It does NOT spread on it's own, and instead must be spread via Adeptus/Techpriests.

The one thing I can't make up my mind on, is whether to block all other civs from adopting it, or allow certain civs access.... Looking at the Dwarves.

The Apparat? How about something less Russian and more Games Workshop like Ordos Mechos?

Ordos Mecha? Ordos? Fraterus Mechanicos? Fraterus Mechanica? Brotherhood of Engineers? Engineering Cult? Cult of Technology? Order of Technology? Guild of Science? Coalition Against Magic? Cult of Science? Order of Reason? Order of Logic? Logical Brotherhood? Smiths of Science?

the list goes on, just please God do not use Apparat.

Haha actually, I got Apparat from Apparatus. Honestly could not think of anything better... Ordos Mechos doesn't sound bad though.

Or they could worship Skynet, the machine that will give the machines their true place in the world: above all other creatures :crazyeye:

I like the religion idea. Is it possible to prevent it to passively spread? I didn't know that.

If any other civ could adopt it, there would be UU needed, I think. I have nothing against Khazad or Luchuirp followers of Skynet but I don't see the Elves... Hm. The thing is, if you allow some civs non-Mechanos to follow Skynet, you must allow everyone to follow Skynet. Hard choice.

Or they could worship Skynet, the machine that will give the machines their true place in the world: above all other creatures :crazyeye:

I like the religion idea. Is it possible to prevent it to passively spread? I didn't know that.

If any other civ could adopt it, there would be UU needed, I think. I have nothing against Khazad or Luchuirp followers of Skynet but I don't see the Elves... Hm. The thing is, if you allow some civs non-Mechanos to follow Skynet, you must allow everyone to follow Skynet. Hard choice.

lol I don't think I'll go with that name, but yes, there's a handy xml tag that allows you to set passive religion spread.

Actually, I don't. I'm going to do the opposite of what I did for the Mechanos.... a religion weight of -100. It will completely block them from adopting that religion, unless I specifically allow them to.

lol I don't think I'll go with that name, but yes, there's a handy xml tag that allows you to set passive religion spread.

Actually, I don't. I'm going to do the opposite of what I did for the Mechanos.... a religion weight of -100. It will completely block them from adopting that religion, unless I specifically allow them to.Block who? Non-Mechanos? And what do you mean by "specifically allow them to"? I smell ideas there!

The Mechanos are blocked from all religions other than the new one... All other civs, excluding the dwarves, are blocked from the new one.

So AI Mechanos will ALWAYS adopt it, Luchuirp will very rarely adopt it (weight of -90... Not impossible, but..), and the Khazad will occasionally adopt it. Noone else ever can, whether played by humans or AI.

Is there any place where I can find just the D'tesh but compatable with FF?
Without the rest of this mod, as some things in it (like wild mana) don't sound fun to me.

Wild Mana's not actually included yet, and even in the next version when it will be it's entirely contained in a game option. :lol:

But yes, it's in the FfH modmod forum... The latest version was remade for FF rather than FfH. It's available here, or you can go to the credits post on the first page and follow the link there..... should be the second post. :goodjob: