i thought that i would start an immortal thread. post any shadows in spoilers. i think that i can update this at least once every 3-5 days if there is any interest.

i usually play random/shuffle/normal/epic/immortal with all default settings. however, this time i chose a much maligned leader: suryavarman 2http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/leader.jpg?t=1242095285

about the only thing that recommends itself to this leader are his civilization's starting traits: hunting & mining. because of this, you get to start with a scout instead of a warrior which allows for early scouting and, with a little luck, goody-huts. starting with mining allows a straight shot at bronze-working.

however, the biggest complaint with this leader are the khmer's weak unique unit and building. the ballista elephant is identical to other elephants, except that it has the situational ability to target mounted units first when attacking. and because ivory is so rare, you won't see them in many of your games with sury anyway. the baray is identical to an aqueduct with the addition of a :food: bonus.

perhaps to balance this handicap, sury himself has a powerful combination of traits. you have access to five half-priced buildings, including the granary and library. there is some debate as to the usefulness of the creative trait on higher difficulties. i like it because it means that i don't have to worry as much about the ai crushing me with their culture. also, expansive allows one extra population per city during the end game when :yuck: becomes the biggest impediment to city growth.


and the start:

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/opening.jpg?t=1242094334

i've got a gut feeling that moving the settler SE is going to be the best move. expansive will take care of any :yuck: from all of that floodplains.

i went ahead and played to turn 51. i think that i will wait and see if anyone takes the bait and offers any advice, comments, insights, etc.

i go ahead and move my scout to the hill to confirm my suspicions about the land to the SE; it's floodplains city, and i decide to settler one tile to the SE despite losing the gold mine.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/settling.jpg?t=1242095714

moving the settler reveals rice and settling pops 61 :gold: as well as ivory for our lackluster UU and a water tile in our BFC :(

this city lends itself to cottaging and bureaucracy, although it will be rather soft on production. there will be enough food to allow for scientists so that i can get an academy running.

decide to go for bronze-working, although i will likely not be chopping very much forests. the reason that i want to research it first is so that i can reveal bronze early with my free scout. i make a worker my first build knowing that at the very least i can keep them busy building mines.

turn 2: i pop a hut for 63 :gold:
turn 6: i pop the wheel. this is an expensive early tech that will allow me to get up cottages that much sooner.
turn 8: popping 51 :gold: for a grand total of 175! enough to take care of any weird random events.
turn 9: i meet pacal 2.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/pacal_traits.jpg?t=1242100037

so i know that he is probably to the east and within 20 tiles of my capitol. perhaps he is close enough to warrant a rush. pacal can be a monster with his financial trait and cheap granaries.

turn 13: buddhism is founded in a distant land, and on the next turn pacal converts.
turn 16: hinduism is founded in a distant land.
turn 17: pop agriculture! the single best reason to start with a scout is confirmed. it is especially lucky that goody-huts have taken care of both of my prerequisites for pottery.
turn 22: i meet huayna capac

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/huaynacapac_traits.jpg

another financial leader, and this one can be a wonder-hog. on the plus side, he is the founder of hinduism, putting him at odds with pacal. i predict that i will have to choose sides before too long.

turn 23: complete my first worker and send him to improve the rice. i start on a second worker, hoping that i can get away with it. it's always a gamble on higher levels if you should go worker or warrior first. i complete bronze-working and get a welcome surprise. start researching pottery.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/copper.jpg

turn 32: chop a forest to hurry my next worker. i pick the forest along the river, thinking that i can do more with that tile than a grassland hill. however, because of the floodplains, i think that i should leave the two forests that remain in my BFC.
turn 34: my scout takes out his fourth animal unit and earns medic 1.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/medic.jpg

turn 38: research pottery and start on writing. it will take 25 turns, but i should have some gold coming in soon with all of those river tiles.
turn 43: pacal builds a city.

turn 51:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/z0wb13_the_hopeless.jpg
right there in last place for power. not too much to worry about on immortal. if the accolades had been for wealth, i would have done better.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/world.jpg

here is a worldview. lots of good land, if i can get to it fast enough.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/culture.jpg

incans to the SE, mayans to the east, and both are too far away for a good rush.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu172/z0wb13/block.jpg

i think that i need to go for a block. the red spot would be better if i can get there first.

People complain about Sury? I consider him one of the very best on the highest levels. He has the fastest setup of new cities of all leaders, borders pop after 5 turns, 3-6 turns later a granary is whipped, that's hard to beat. Then of course we need a library.. what!? That's half price as well!? :p

Edit: I can't believe you didn't settle so you got the gold in the BFC.

Does the early gold not make up for 2 deserts in cap?

Does the early gold not make up for 2 deserts in cap?

Without question but 1E is also fine.

yeah ... same as Gilse ... 2 Deserts is a small price for a gold mine ... honestly ... in how long time would you anyways not use 2 of the tiles in the city? :p ... now you got a coast which is 'almost' as useless, just without any good things to talk for the talk for that thing

futhermore ... Baray is a nasty good UB ... half a specialist and/or faster growing? ... sign me up ... sure ... its not the top tier of UB's but it's certainly in top half in my book

Sury is maybe one of the leaders which fastest can get his cities up and contritube instead of being 'dead weight' economically speaking due to borderpops, and cheap Granaries/liberies

Sury is one of the 3 masters of REX, right there with Cathy and Joao.

The only thing that bothers me about moving is the potential loss of a food tile. If it's a plains cow or something, fine, but if we're giving up grass cow or something like irrigated corn by going 1E it hurts.

Gold can be worked in a 2nd city potentially, also.

Sury is one of the 3 masters of REX, right there with Cathy and Joao.

The only thing that bothers me about moving is the potential loss of a food tile. If it's a plains cow or something, fine, but if we're giving up grass cow or something like irrigated corn by going 1E it hurts.

Gold can be worked in a 2nd city potentially, also.That may be very much true, but would you not have grabbed the gold in the BCF basd on the info from the first screeny? That REX is not going to pay for itself...

I do not see any reason to not take the gold, I would take my chances based on the info. If food will be that much of a problem there are always the floodplains. If the need is dire enough you can always farm them.

Subscribed btw. :)

1E was the right move here.

I would've put my capital 1E and settled between the gold and the copper and fed the gold mines with the floodplains.

I would've settled capital 1E and 2nd city SSE of the copper. Misses 1 gold pit only and a much stronger city imo than settling between copper and gold. Then a city SE of the ivory along the river and maybe make a play for the pyramids once the stone is hooked up.

Settle 1E - one farmed FP can feed the gold worker and two more FP are enough to grow off of. Plus 3 hills in addition to the gold hill. And unirrigated rice sucks - it's marginally better than a FP (faster to improve).

Survy expands really fast in the hands of a human. The biggest problem I find is just paying for all the expansion. Cheap workers, granaries, creative border pops = really fast land grab. And creative is more useful on higher levels than lower ones. Notably deity.

i knew it would drive everyone crazy to pass up the gold:egypt:

in my first city, i find food to be my most important resource and gold tiles to be kind of unwieldy. that tile would be worth 7 :gold: and two :hammers: and early, to boot. but, working it also means that i can't run a specialist, for instance, because working that mine gobbles up 2 :food: i could definitely be wrong; it would be interesting if someone could finish that game many turns sooner by starting one E.

anyway, i hope that you enjoyed the screenshots. i should have gotten BUG long ago. expect an update within two days.

i knew it would drive everyone crazy to pass up the gold:egypt:

in my first city, i find food to be my most important resource and gold tiles to be kind of unwieldy. that tile would be worth 7 :gold: and two :hammers: and early, to boot. but, working it also means that i can't run a specialist, for instance, because working that mine gobbles up 2 :food: i could definitely be wrong; it would be interesting if someone could finish that game many turns sooner by starting one E.

anyway, i hope that you enjoyed the screenshots. i should have gotten BUG long ago. expect an update within two days.

Working that gold with a library gives you 8.75 bpt which is more than you get from running 2 scientists (who incidentally costs you 4 food to maintain) not to mention the 2 hammers. As for generating a early GP, I'm sure you'll find another spot if necessary if you want to do that.