I am planning to do some work on the "chemicals": helium, iridum and rubidium. I would like to provide them with appropriate gamefont icons, models and textures.
In order to do this best there are some things I must ask to Maniac. What is the story of these resources? Why did you choose to include them in Planetfall? What are their use and importance on Chiron?
Thanks.

They're added to get a decent number of health resources. Planetfall currently has 12, about the same number as unmodded Civ4. It's kinda hard to think of resources that work well in the context of Chiron. :(

The idea is that:
Helium-3 powers fusion reactions
Iridium is necessary for Antimatter production
Rubidium is necessary for Singularity energy production

Such energy production enables you to provide power to large bases => 'health' bonus.

First chemical: Helium-3

Helium-3 is an isopote of Helium that has been proposed as fuel for nuclear fusion reactions. It is very rare on Earth, while the standard Helium is quite abundant.
Since Helium-3 is usually in gas phase and becomes a liquid at very low temperatures, I thought of using for it the Oil model. I don't know what color Helium-3 has and I tried to paint it in cyan.
I have attached the gamefont icon too, my own concept.
Below you will find the lines to substitute in the CIV4ArtDefines_Bonus.xml file:

<BonusArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_BONUS_HELIUM</Type>
<fScale>1.0</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<NIF>Art/Terrain/Resources/Helium-3/Oil.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Terrain/Resources/Oil/Oil.kfm</KFM>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/WorldBuilder/Helium.dds</Button>
<FontButtonIndex>43</FontButtonIndex>
</BonusArtInfo>


While working on this I thought of some ideas:
1- First proposal: rename everywhere in-game "Helium" in "Helium-3". They are two distinct things and it is not correct to ignore that;
2- Second: rename "Nuclear reactor" in "Fusion reactor", since nuclear is a generic term that includes fission power too, but that is a technology that the colonist already knew from Earth;
3- Last proposal: add another effect to the "Fusion reactor": "+10% minerals and energy with Helium-3".

Iridium will come next :p

First chemical: Helium-3

Looks great!

1- First proposal: rename everywhere in-game "Helium" in "Helium-3". They are two distinct things and it is not correct to ignore that;

I'll do so.

2- Second: rename "Nuclear reactor" in "Fusion reactor", since nuclear is a generic term that includes fission power too, but that is a technology that the colonist already knew from Earth;

The Nuclear Reactor is supposed to represent all of the following four energy reactions: fission, fusion, antimatter and singularity. Notice the health bonus this facility gives to the four resources this thread is about. Hence the name Fusion Reactor would not cover the package.

Helium-3 looks awesome man! :goodjob:

The Nuclear Reactor is supposed to represent all of the following four energy reactions: fission, fusion, antimatter and singularity. Notice the health bonus this facility gives to the four resources this thread is about. Hence the name Fusion Reactor would not cover the package.Oh, that's why! The name always confused me a bit. Can I still suggest renaming it, as nuclear only fully covers fission and fusion - antimatter and singularity energy isn't really "nuclear". Perhaps something like "Reactor Core" or "Reactor Chamber" or something similar that sounds a bit broader and doesn't make people think of nuclear power plants?

Cheers, LT.

Problem is the name should also be distinct enough from the 'Bioreactor'. Adding Core or Chamber to Reactor does not make it more clear what it is, it seems to me.

Would a simple, although long, "Advanced Energy Plant" do?

Would a simple, although long, "Advanced Energy Plant" do?Also fitting would be "High Energy Reactor", like in "High Energy Physics" (and the latter two reactors must be pretty high in energy, considering that they are more effective than fusion reactors!).

Cheers, LT.

What are the primary advanced power sources used by the factions? Fusion, antimatter would use Magnetic Bottles. Would singularity power? Maybe Mag Core?

(and the latter two reactors must be pretty high in energy, considering that they are more effective than fusion reactors!).

That's a pretty cautious remark regarding the potential power output of antimatter and singularities. :lol:

Since magnetics got mentioned, Tokamak would be a distinctive name, but then you guys would say it doesn't cover nuclear fission. ;)

How about the Quantum Converter? The text is already there. :)

I donno, I do think Reactor Core sounds cool despite being close to Bio Reactor, though not really :)

Rubidium being a rare resource?? On earth it's more abundant than copper! How about using deuterium for anti matter production and iridium for singularities? It would sorta make sense as iridium is already very dense.
Helium-3 could also be used for extreme cooling, perhaps giving a lab bonus? Alternatively it could give an energy bonus, as factions who did not have it from a natural source would have to make it artificially (as we do on earth today)

How about using deuterium for anti matter production and iridium for singularities?We-ell, who knows how they produce anti-matter and singularities using that stuff? Because it must be some pretty exotic process - otherwise using anti-matter as energy source is downright and completely silly. So my suspension of disbelief kicks in and tells me - these are just fancy names! ;)

If you care for an explanation why it's actually silly, read this:
Using anti-matter as energy source is like saying "using batteries as energy source" - to produce anti-matter... you need energy first. Simply by mass-energy conservation, every produced something of anti-matter requires you to have the equivalent energy before - at best, the annihilating anti-matter gives you as much energy back as you put in first. Like batteries, anti-matter can basically only serve as energy storage, unless you find naturally occurring anti-matter (which would go boom).

Furthermore, anti-matter annihilations produce a lot of energy - but not all of it is actually useful - because a lot of it will end up in the form of neutrinos - which basically don't interact with anything at all - you can't capture them, you can't see them - hell, physicists build huge watertanks (huge as in silo-sized) just to detect single neutrinos in months and years! So even as an energy-storage, it's far from 100% efficient (and the fact that it's effin' dangerous and costs energy to be kept safe with magnetic bottles and so forth) - it's really only useful as weapon, because then you get the best stuff-to-boom ratio.

Finally, anti-matter production is also very, very inefficient - remember the pesky energy-mass conservation? It gets worse. Protons and neutrons have a baryon number of +1, electrons a lepton number of +1 - and the anti-particles have one of -1, respectively. And there's a law of baryon no. conservation and one of lepton no. conservation - so if you just had energy before (no particles, hence no lepton/baryon no.), you need to come out with zero afterwards again - in short, you always have to produce as much matter as anti-matter, so only half of your energy used to produce anti-matter actually ends up as such, the other half is wasted in form of regular matter.

Cheers, LT.

If you care for an explanation why it's actually silly, read this:

Good point. Even in phoney baloney sci-fi like Star Trek had fusion power as the background power source.

We-ell, who knows how they produce anti-matter and singularities using that stuff? Because it must be some pretty exotic process

Well um.. they don't produce antimatter. They harvest it from vacuum fluctuations. :mischief:

I wouldn't remind removing the health bonus of Iridium with the Nuclear Reactor. But then I would like to add another health resource. Preferably something else than another DNA or algae. And I'm out of ideas.

I wouldn't remind removing the health bonus of Iridium with the Nuclear Reactor. But then I would like to add another health resource. Preferably something else than another DNA or algae. And I'm out of ideas.Immediate gut reaction: Ilmenite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmenite)-rich deposits. The NASA was actually looking for deposits on the moon in 2005, because it's a titanium-iron oxide - you can get oxygen from it - and having titanium and iron ore isn't too shabby as well. For an early colonisation, this stuff would be pretty valuable and useful. And for a real-world mineral, Ilmenite certain sounds cool.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, Maniac, why did you replace the SMAC's quantum reactor-theme with antimatter-themed energy?

Cheers, LT.

Ilmenite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmenite)-rich deposits.

How can you justify this giving health, energy, recycling opportunities or anything else that could increase base size though? Planet's atmosphere already has oxygen (though not enough for humans), and AFAIK there's oxygen in all rocks.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, Maniac, why did you replace the SMAC's quantum reactor-theme with antimatter-themed energy?

Err I don't remember. That change dates from years back, in SMAniaC. I guess I thought harvesting quantum power was too much of a fluff idea. But as you say Antimatter probably isn't any better. I guess that vacuum polarization idea I just invented doesn't make much sense? ;)

How can you justify this giving health, energy, recycling opportunities or anything else that could increase base size though? Planet's atmosphere already has oxygen (though not enough for humans), and AFAIK there's oxygen in all rocks.Mainly because you get the oxygen and the minerals in one package. You crack that stuff open, get oxygen out of it and valuable resources in - more or less - one go, other rocks mean you get oxygen - so it's really more of an efficiency thing (a bit like the resources in vanilla Civ4 - a lot of stuff is found everywhere in certain amounts, but the resources represent particular large and pure/useful deposits). Problem, of course, would be that after the first couple of months/years, the resource would become much less important, as oxygen supply will improve and better mines will give you better ore deposits anyway. But Health resources are a hard thing to do... I wonder whether you can eat glowmites! :lol:
Err I don't remember. That change dates from years back, in SMAniaC. I guess I thought harvesting quantum power was too much of a fluff idea. But as you say Antimatter probably isn't any better. I guess that vacuum polarization idea I just invented doesn't make much sense? ;)*shrug* my problem with that would only be: That's actually very similar to a process through which black holes radiate/lose energy: it's Hawking radiation.

EDIT: Note that all that stuff is actually fine with me as it is now - as a physics student I learned a long time ago stop over-thinking Sci-Fi. Though I have to say SMAC always held up pretty well to the whole over-thinking (at least compared to most other sci-fi stuff), because they kept many things rather abstract.

Cheers, LT.

Immediate gut reaction: Ilmenite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilmenite)-rich deposits. The NASA was actually looking for deposits on the moon in 2005, because it's a titanium-iron oxide - you can get oxygen from it - and having titanium and iron ore isn't too shabby as well. For an early colonisation, this stuff would be pretty valuable and useful. And for a real-world mineral, Ilmenite certain sounds cool.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, Maniac, why did you replace the SMAC's quantum reactor-theme with antimatter-themed energy?

Cheers, LT.

Seems a little extreme for me. Why not just use rust to justify health (you can get oxygen from that after all). Applying techniques theorized to establish a moonbase does not make much sense planetside, where energy is precious (i.e. if you are on the moon, you have the energy to be there)

Applying techniques theorized to establish a moonbase does not make much sense planetside...Right, and in another facepalm moment, I realised something else: Planet has water - that's all the oxygen you need right there - electrolysis doesn't need a lot of electricity... :blush:

Cheers, LT.

*shrug* my problem with that would only be: That's actually very similar to a process through which black holes radiate/lose energy: it's Hawking radiation.

That's why one of the tech paths to Singularity Mechanics leads through Antimatter. :mischief:

Why would oxygen generation be relevant though? Plenty of oxygen being produced by flora already.

That's why one of the tech paths to Singularity Mechanics leads through Antimatter. :mischief::D (though I'd rather like to reserve the name "antimatter" for weaponised systems, to me, antimatter reactor sounds like "dynamite reactor" - and call the civilian tech something like vacuum harvesters, Casimir generators or something like that)

Also, just something you might like to read about: Methane hydrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate) is naturally occurring methane "trapped" by water molecules. The interesting bit is that it only occurs in depths of 300m to 500m, above that, it's unstable, below that, it doesn't form. Would be nice to have more resources in the sea (since with sea bases, naval expansion becomes more important), this sounds like something interesting. Also, it (and derivatives) appear in a couple of sci-fi novels and is harnessing it is future technology that we haven't mastered yet, but we plan to do - SMAC had a lot of these things, so it might just fit right into it. It couldn't be a replacement for the antimatter-enabling resource though, it's more of a tier 3-4 tech.

Cheers, LT.

It sure sounds like a resource that, when extracted, would give a strong native reaction... :mischief:

:D (though I'd rather like to reserve the name "antimatter" for weaponised systems, to me, antimatter reactor sounds like "dynamite reactor" - and call the civilian tech something like vacuum harvesters, Casimir generators or something like that)

Also, just something you might like to read about: Methane hydrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate) is naturally occurring methane "trapped" by water molecules. The interesting bit is that it only occurs in depths of 300m to 500m, above that, it's unstable, below that, it doesn't form. Would be nice to have more resources in the sea (since with sea bases, naval expansion becomes more important), this sounds like something interesting. Also, it (and derivatives) appear in a couple of sci-fi novels and is harnessing it is future technology that we haven't mastered yet, but we plan to do - SMAC had a lot of these things, so it might just fit right into it. It couldn't be a replacement for the antimatter-enabling resource though, it's more of a tier 3-4 tech.

Cheers, LT.

Okay the link you provided leads to an article that states Methane hydrates occur 300 to 400m beneath the ocean bottom, or near a top layer of sediment. I think this would be more relevant for a truly submerged settlement. Those would be cool though!

edit: would land based Methane really be unique enough for a bonus resource?

Methane Ice sounds cool for a health resource. Though I too am wondering if it might be better represented by an energy increase to all of a certain type terrain. IIRC these Methana Hydrates are the reasons why a while back I let Bioreactors provide +1 energy to the Ice feature for instance.

If I understand the article correctly, this resource would appear on Shelf and Polar terrain?
(though the map on wikipedia shows most stuff has been found in areas close to trenches. Japan, Alaska etc :confused: )

Also, just something you might like to read about: Methane hydrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate) is naturally occurring methane "trapped" by water molecules.

If you create a graphic for it...there's maybe somebody else, who could use it....:mischief:


If I understand the article correctly, this resource would appear on Shelf and Polar terrain?
(though the map on wikipedia shows most stuff has been found in areas close to trenches. Japan, Alaska etc :confused: )

I guess, the reason is, that bacteria are involved.
Cold water can incorporate more oxygen, which leads to better bacteria growth.

Methane Ice sounds cool for a health resource. Though I too am wondering if it might be better represented by an energy increase to all of a certain type terrain. IIRC these Methana Hydrates are the reasons why a while back I let Bioreactors provide +1 energy to the Ice feature for instance.

If I understand the article correctly, this resource would appear on Shelf and Polar terrain?
(though the map on wikipedia shows most stuff has been found in areas close to trenches. Japan, Alaska etc :confused: )

Yeah The best place for the fields today would be shelves, polar regions, lakes probably. Any ideas for deep sea resources?

Two methods that have been proposed for extracting energy from black holes is via Hawking's Radiation (if they are microscopic) or through stealing their rotational energy (if larger, naturally occuring). Assuming you dont want to name the tech/reactor after the people first conceiving the idea (Hawking and Penrose) you could name them something like a 'singularity siphon' ,which is a broad enough generalisation without being wrong

IT seems like energy resources should more logically give... energy, rather than health.

Health is for sources of food, fresh water, and supernatural healing stuff, I think.

Energy resources in this mod add to the general quality of life which means health bonuses.

But quality of life generally brings happiness, not health. or perhaps both.

As a side note, it might be a good idea to incorporate some sort of power system. Rather than these resources directly giving health/happiness, a Reactor Core building gives them, with the appropriate resources. Possibly commerce/production bonuses too.

read the earlier posts bro, my laziness prevents me from indulging your own.