http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/LENA280.png
Legacy of Erebus: Nuova Alba
(LENA)
version .40 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12537)
(click to download)

A note

Please be aware that the following posts aren't updated yet. Be also aware that .40 changelog has been lost due to CFC... So I'll update all those again later.

Briefly: What's this?

This is a modmod for Orbis. With it, my aim is to expand the leaders: adding some more, tweaking the others. Tweaks will change traits (some new ones added) and enhance the leaders' personality in order to differentiate each other more than now.

Be aware that even though the name is friggin' cool, it will be refered to as "LENA".

Longer: Why?

It all began with the MinorLeaders modmod by Notque. Seeing it made me want to add my own "minor" leaders which, beyond being off-canon roster, have a very interesting mechanic: they gain new traits according to the player's gameplay.

However, when I looked to the files of the new leaders (at least in Orbis), I saw that many of them were just, personality-wise, the copy of a standard leader. I then checked the standard leaders and saw such similarities in some areas. This made me want to tweak all the leaders to give them an interesting personality.

While playing the History of the Three Kingdoms modmod for BTS, I noticed several interesting thing, especially the leaders' relations and some traits. I imported many of those things into this modmod.

Planned features

Let me describe all the features I'm planning to add for now. Clicking on the links in the list below will direct you to said post in parenthesis:



New MinorLeaders (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123728&postcount=5) (post 05)
A big lot of minor leaders will be added. I always felt that there isn't enough choice with some civilizations when it comes to leaders. Basically, I added 1 leader to every civ; some got more.

Art
Traits
Names
Personality
RandomCompactLeaders
This feature will make it so that, anytime Mercurians or Infernals enter creation, one leader is chosen at random, including, of course, minors. This means that it will not always be Basium or Hyborem.

Infernals
Mercurians


Traits Reworking

New Traits (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123721&postcount=3) (post 03)
I added some new traits because I felt we could use them. I also brought back the Imperialist one.
Tweaking MinorLeaders Traits (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123723&postcount=4) (post 04)
Some minors had to much traits, enabling them to gain up to four traits, so I toned this down. Also, to use my new traits, I changed some.
Tweaking Leaders Traits
Tweaking Civilization Traits (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123721&postcount=3) (post 03)
While developping this mod, I thought of some ideas concerning civilization traits.

Amurites
Elohim
Sheaim
Sidar
Grigori


Personalities Revamping

Inter-leaders relationships (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123719&postcount=2) (post 02)
This component I wanted for a long time before even seeing it in the HoTK mod. I finally added it!

Importing from the History of the Three Kingdoms
Displaying modifiers in diplobubble
Displaying leader-specific diplotext

Tweaking MinorLeaders Personalities
Tweaking Leaders Personalities

New Diplomatic Tags (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123732&postcount=8) (post 08)

Hated Civic
Hated Wonder
Hated Religion
Bonus Attitude




You can check the current progress here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123735&postcount=10).

Compatibility

NOT COMPATIBLE WITH CURRENT ORBIS VERSION! PLEASE SEE BELOW FOR LINKS TO GET A PREVIOUS VERSION!

The version .40 is compatible with Orbis 0.24h (which requires FFH 0.41g).

Download

You can get the files here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12537). This is a link to WePlayCiv for an installer of ~12mb.

Thanks to KrugSmash:

You can get FFH 0.41 patch G here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13477).
You can get Orbis 0.24 here (http://www.filefront.com/13969257/OrbisSetup024.exe/).
You can get patch H here (http://www.filefront.com/15039469/Orbis024-PatchH.exe).

Installation

Just run the installer ;)

Current changelog

.40 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12537) (will break savegames)

Okay, so, I lost the current changelog because of this damn CFC... I'll put in together again and post it later.

Past changelogs
.37alpha


[XML][Traits] Removed production bonus of Sly for Ratcatchers' Guild;
[XML][Ngomele] Nga's unique spells (Orders) are now available at level 5, 10 and 15;
[XML][Ngomele] Removed "One with the Sea" promotion, unused for now;
[Py][Traits] Fixed a bug with Zealous that prevented the EventManager to run after the founding of a city while not having a state religion;
[Py][Traits] Now, big cities will have more chance to gain AV with Sundered when it's founded;
[Py][Traits] Fixed a typo causing a python exception in the Sundered trait function;
[Py][Ngomele] The AI won't use Edge of Extinction at the start of the game anymore; in fact, the AI won't use it for now;
[Py][Ngomele] Fixed a typo causing a python exception in the food gaining mechanic when a unit dies near a Ngomele city;


.36beta


[Art] Reduced size of LeadersEnhanced.FPK from ~14mb to ~8mb, mostly by converting the .dds files to DXT1 instead of DXT3, shouldn't be very noticeable at game launch and won't decrease the download's size;
[XML][Leaders] Tweaked the FavoriteTech of some leaders:

Capria has now Mysticism instead of Bronze Working (not a good one to go for);
Jurla has now Tracking instead of Way of the Forests (more flexible like that);
Palgadee has now Sailing instead of Message from the Deep (more flexible);
Ilithiridan has now the Wheel instead of Horseback Riding (more flexible);
Dain no longer has one (had Knowledge of the Ether which too far away in the tech to be favorite);
Charadon no longer has one (had Bronze Working);
Sirvagha no longer has one (had Bronze Working);
Furia the Mad has now Mysticism (didn't have one);
Hatheim has now Tracking instead of Hunting (which she, has a svart, starts with);
Kro'Mear has now Code of Laws instead of Feudalism (like her fellows);
Os-Warqa has now Mysticism instead of Corruption of the Spirit (more flexible);

[XML][Traits] Reorganized the TraitInfos file so that traits are in order of major/minor/civ and alphabetically in each category;
[Py][Ngomele] Fixed a bug breaking the gaining food system;
[XML][Ngomele] Fixed a bug preventing them to be able to build their Colosseum replacement (Mbumgwu) required for one of their unique unit (Kha);
[XML][Ngomele] Gnoll Workers are now more worker-like: they gain XP; they also are affected by the Agricultural trait; they aren't produced with food and cost less than normal workers; they move and work slower;
[Art][Ngomele] Fixed Council Tree's button;
[Py][Ngomele] Fixed an oversight preventing them from building a farm on flax;
[DLL] Fixed a bug making religion-converted civ hate non-converted (to any religion) civs -- however, the functions are a bit messy now so I'll likely rewrite them entirely;
[Fluff] Added Saralet, Sirvagha & Angaad defeat quote (thanks icarussc);
[Fluff] Added Angaad pedia entry (thanks icarussc again :goodjob:);
[Fluff] Added Menec pedia entry, completing the triangle Palgadee/Talos/Menec (thanks Jabie :goodjob:);
[Py][Ngomele] Fixed a bug allowing a unit to gain food upon defeating a Not Alive unit;
[Py][Ngomele] Added back the use of Great Hunter and Hunting Tools promotions;
[XML][Ngomele] Great Hunter now requires level 4 instead of level 5;
[Text][Ngomele] Added the TXT_KEYs for the new UnitClasses;
[XML][Ngomele] Added Lengdu, a new "minor" leader for them; he is Peaceful/Wanderer (if you want to see the picture, just check the Ngomele's thread and the post were xienwolf ask me to do a leader with one specific picture);
[XML][Ngomele] They can't build Frigate, Clipper and Man O War;
[XML][Ngomele] Shurmbumgwu is now a World Wonder instead of a National Wonder (2);
[XML][Ngomele] Alchemy Lab isn't buildable anymore;


Plug-Ins

ElohimGuardians
.21.36beta (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221239&stc=1&d=1247828701)


[Py] Can't build other cultures' palace now;
[Py] Can't build other cultures' settlers now;


.35beta2


[XML] Fixed a bug with an undefined CIVIC_CONSUMPTION;
[XML][Ngomele] Removed Wiri Big-Heart for now;
[Py] Fixed a bug in the beelines;
[Py] Civics requiring a civilization won't show up in the civics screen if you aren't playing said civilization; they'll still show up when discovering the enabling technology, though;


.35


[-] Merged the plug-ins in the base mod per request;
[XML/Py] Added the Ngomele;
[XML] Added Wiri Big-Heart (Ngomele leader);
[XML] Modified trait production bonus for those buildings:

Alchemy Labe: +100% with Scientific;
Custom House: +100% with Trader;
Gambling House: +100% with Greedy;
Hunting Lodge: +100% with Wanderer;
Monasteries: +100% with Spiritual instead of with Philosophical;
Sacrificial Altar, Sacellum of Kalshekk and Temple of the Gift: +100% with Spiritual (a fix mostly as they hadn't that modifier even though all other temples have it);
Public Baths: +100% with Expansive;
Ratcatchers Guild: +100% with Sly;
River Port: +100% with Trader instead of with Expansive;
Tavern: +100% with Wanderer;
Tax Office: +50% with Greedy;
Theatre and Hall of the Covenant: +100% with Creative;
University: +50% with Scientific;

[XML] Modified trait happiness bonus for those buildings:

Catacomb Libralus: +2 happy for Arcane leaders;
Courthouses: +1:) for Organized leaders;
Eyes and Ears Network: +2:) for Sly leaders;
The Great Lighthouse: +2:) for Trader leaders;
Infirmary: +1:) for Expansive leaders;
Song of Autumn: +2:) for Creative leaders;
University: +2:) for Scientific leaders;

[DLL] Trait happiness for wonders now correctly displayed;
[XML] Saralet's FavoriteCivic is now Purity instead of Social Order. She's also more punishing towards low compassion civic users;
[XML] Angaad's FavoriteCivic is now Social Order instead of Purity;
[DLL] You won't be switched out of your cultural values civic anymore;
[DLL] Loading savegames bug disallowing religion founding/adopting fixed;
[XML] Shekinah now has the Scientific trait;
[XML] Thessalonica now has the Agricultural trait;
[XML] Uldanor now has the Imperialist trait;
[XML] Anagantios now has the Imperialist trait;
[XML] Raitlor now has the Trader trait;
[XML] Volanna now has the Agricultural trait;
[Fluff] Added diplotext for Saralet and Sirvagha from Icarussc :goodjob:;
[XML] Did some tweaks to resource happiness:

[Pearl] You won't gain +1:) without a Market;
[Whale] You won't gain +1:) without a Harbor;
[Fur] You won't gain +1:) without a Hunting Lodge;
[Sugar] You won't gain +1:) without a Brewery;
[Marble] You won't gain +1:) without either a Cathedral or a civ's Pagan Temple;

[XML] Fort and Keep yields reverted to base Orbis;
[XML] Castle base yields reverted to base Orbis; Castle will gain +1:hammers: and +1:commerce: with Imperial Road;
[XML] Engineering won't affect Fort, Keep and Castle's yields anymore;
[XML]Tweaked resources more generally:

[Wine] Not used in normalization routine;
[Sugar] Not used in normalization routine;
[Olive] Less chance to appear in a group;
[Tea] Less chance to appear in a group;
Not used in normalization routine;
[Coffee] Less chance to appear in a group;
Not used in normalization routine;
[Reagents] Now rarer (1:3 player);
More valued by the AI for trade;
More chance to appear in a group;
[Incense] A bit rarer;
Not used in normalization routine;
[Dye] Not used in normalization routine;
[Cotton] Not used in normalization routine;
[Silk] Not used in normalization routine;
[Fur] Rarer;

[XML][GlobalDefine] Changed the diplomalus from Evil to Good to -4 from -2;
[Py] Fixed a bug that wouldn't stop some functions to be called with some NO_RELIGION options;
[Py][Ngomele] Added a requirement for Edge of Extinction (Ngomele's WorldSpell): cannot be used by the AI for now);
[Py][Ngomele] Added a beeline, if Writing -> CoL;
[XML] Slavery is now a low compassion civic;
[XML] Crusade isn't a high compassion civic anymore;
[Py] FlavourMod doesn't use Normalization anymore;


.3beta


Splitted some changes away from the Main mod in two plug-ins: Wild Mana and Ngomele;
Updated the leader relations;
Added a new sheet to the editor for leader relations edition;
Fixed an issue with Hawk getting the Centaur promotion;
Agricultural now gives +1 food on tiles with 4:food: (like in Orbis) but cities still start with 2 pop.;
Added these minor leaders:

Leasieigh (Sidar);
Nakir Thargo (Kuriotates);
Talos (Mechanos);
Swift Nell (Balseraphs);

Added civilopedia entry for:

Palgadee (from Jabie);
Saralet (from Icarussc);
Sirvagha (from Icarussc);
Talos (from Jabie);

Changed Tethira's picture, changed "his" gender to female;
Began tweaking non-LE minor leaders' personality:

Tethira, done;

Sundered trait won't automatically convert human player anymore;
Changed Trader trait:

+25%:food: from :traderoute:
+25%:hammers: from :traderoute:

Greedy now gives +1:mad:/city, +2:gold:/per city, -25%/:gp:, merged Opportunistic in it;
Removed Opportunistic;
Updated to Orbis 0.24b;
Added the Wanderer and Zealous traits;
Added two new tags: bUniqueCult and bIntolerant in TraitInfos;
Added Humanist civ trait for the Grigori;
Added Emperor's Cult trait for the Risen Emperor;
Removed Agnostic Trait from all leaders; Illians are now using isUniqueCult() from Trait_Winterborn; The Risen Emperor is using Emperor's Cult and the Mechanos are using bIntolerant from Trait_Mechanic;
Added one tag: PrereqTraitNoTech in CivicInfos;
Emperor's Cult enables God King civic even without Mysticism; Humanist enables Humanism even without Printing Press;
Exposed isAgnostic(), isIntolerant() and isUniqueCult() to python;
Tweaked some DifferentReligion and SameReligion values as they are now used even for case where no religion is involved (UniqueCult, Intolerant);
Removed Centaur trait for now (need to find the promotion because I lost it :p);


.2beta2


Added Wild Mana feature, tweaked:

Mana isn't hidden with End of Winter anymore;
The amount of mana is randomized for each game;
Removed Ice mana from being generated until I add the Ice Node improvement;

Changed Mana resources yields:

Air: +3 commerce;
Body: +1 food, +1 hammer, +1 commerce;
Chaos: -2 hammers, +1 commerce;
Death: -2 food, +1 hammer, -1 commerce;
Dimensional: +2 hammers, +2 commerce;
Earth: +1 food, +2 hammers, +1 commerce;
Enchantment: +1 food, +1 hammer;
Entropy: -1 food, -1 hammer, -1 commerce;
Fire: -1 food, +2 hammers, +1 commerce;
Ice: -2 food, +2 commerce;
Law: -1 food, +3 hammers;
Life: +3 food, -1 hammer;
Metamagic: +1 food, +1 hammer, +1 commerce;
Mind: -1 food, -1 hammer, +3 commerce;
Nature: +2 food, +1 hammer, +1 commerce;
Spirit: +2 commerce;
Water: +1 food, -2 hammers, +2:commerce;

Changed Mana nodes yields (were all +1:food:, +1:hammers:, +2:commerce:):

Air: +1 commerce;
Body: +1 hammer;
Chaos: +1 commerce;
Death: -1 food, +3 hammers;
Dimensional: +3 commerce;
Earth: +1 food, +2 hammers;
Enchantment: +2 commerce;
Entropy: -2 food, +2 hammers, +2 commerce;
Fire: +2 commerce;
Law: +2 hammers, +1 commerce;
Life: +1 food;
Metamagic: +4 commerce;
Mind: +1 hammer, +1 commerce;
Nature: +1 food, +1 commerce;
Shadow: +2 commerce;
Spirit: +1 hammer, +1 commerce;
Sun: -1 food, +2 hammers, +3 commerce;
Water: +1 food, +2 commerce;

New Relationships Factor: Inter-leaders specific values!

Description

Better than words:http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/th_LeaderAttitudeBad.jpg (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/LeaderAttitudeBad.jpg)http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/th_LeaderAttitudeGood.jpg (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/LeaderAttitudeGood.jpg)
How does it work?

There's a whole new XML file called CIV4LeaderRelationInfos.xml. One entry looks like that: <LeaderRelationInfo>
<Type>LEADERRELATION_ARENDEL</Type>
<Leader>LEADER_ARENDEL</Leader>
<LeaderAttitudeChanges>
<LeaderAttitudeChange>
<TargetLeaderType>LEADER_FAERYL</TargetLeaderType>
<iAttitudeChange>-5</iAttitudeChange>
</LeaderAttitudeChange>
</LeaderAttitudeChanges>
</LeaderRelationInfo>For those that already know XML, it would be crystal clear how to edit. For those who don't, you'll need to wait until I want to write a how-to :lol:

New! (for version .3)

I added a new sheet to the xls editor so that you, modmodmodmodders, have an easy time modifying the leaders relations! Here's the screenie (http://s702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/LRSheetScreen.jpg). The editor still requires Excel 2007 (maybe the one earlier, not sure though).

Relations

Here's the list of the relations I have already created:


Arendel Phaedra...

... to Faeryl Viconia: -4

Basium...

... to Cassiel: -5
... to Ethne: +4
... to Hyborem: -8

Beeri Bawl...

... to Perpentach: -8

Cassiel...

... to Basium: -6
... to Einion Logos: +4
... to Ethne the White: -2
... to Hyborem: -6
... to Sabathiel: +2

Dain...

... to Ethne: +2

Einion Logos...

... to Basium: -4

Ethne the White...

... to Basium: +4
... to Dain: +2

Faeryl Viconia...

... to Arendel Phaedra: -6

Falamar...

... to Perpentach: -2
... to Rhoanna: +3

Hatheim...

... to Leasieigh: +6

Hyborem...

... to Basium: -8
... to Cassiel: -4

Leasieigh...

... to Hatheim: +6

Menec...

... to Palgadee: +2

Palgadee...

... to Menec: -4
... to Talos: -6

Perpentach...

... to Beeri Bawl: +2
... to Falamar: +2

Rhoanna...

... to Falamar: +3

Sabathiel...

... to Basium: -3
... to Cassiel: +1

Sandalphon...

... to Basium: -5
... to Ethne: -5

Talos...

... to Palgadee: -4

Tebryn...

... to Hyborem: -3

Valledia...

... to Arturus Thorn: +2
... to Einion: -3
... to Ethne: -2
... to Kandros Fir: +1

Varn...

... to Lethe: -12

New Traits

Simple traits


Agricultural (Agr)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/AgrScreen.jpg
Deceptive (Dec) [changed 30/05/09, thanks to Jabie]
(Merged with Paranoid in Sly!)

Greedy (Gre) New content!
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/GreedyScreen.jpg
Imperialistic (Imp) New content!
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/ImperialisticScreen.jpg
Opportunistic (Opp)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/Opportunistic.jpg
Paranoid (Par) [changed 30/05/09, thanks to Jabie]
(Merged with Deceiver in Sly)

Scientific (Sci)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/Scientific.jpg
Trader (Tra)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/Trader.jpg

New in version .2!

Centaur (Cen)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/CentaurTraitScreen.jpg
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/CentaurScreen.jpg
Peaceful (Pea)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/PeacefulScreen.jpg
Sly (Sly)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/SlyScreen.jpg


Civilization Traits


Amurites

More XP for Arcane units depending on how many mana resources the civilization possesses. Arcane trait merged in.

Sheaim

My idea was inspired by the Iron Willed trait from th HoTK mod:http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/IronWilled.jpg
The idea is to apply this to the Sheaim and for the Ashen Veil religion.

It's done. I don't have a screenshot yet because I didn't find a way to display a HELP txt_key for civilization traits. Anyway, it's like that:

Automatically converts to Ashen Veil when any player founds it
Ashen Veil automatically spreads to half the owned cities when converted to it
Newly built or acquired cities get Ashen Veil if it's State Religion



Elohim

Another idea inspired by the HoTK mod:http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/Benevolent.jpg

Sidar

And another:http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Traits/Recluse.jpg

Grigori

All units gain a random "civilization" promotion based on other civilizations in the game. Theoretically, +33%:gp: so minor leaders without Phi won't be penalized for spawning adventurers. When the spawning mechanics will be revised, this will likely be removed.

Kuriotates

Inspired by the Diverse trait of Rystic's FFH TweakMod: all units created by the Kurios get a random race. I will try to make it so the race will depend on surroundings. For example, if there is many forests, there will be more chance for elves.

Balseraphs

+2:culture:/specialist!

Khazad

+100 gold from start. Mostly to help the AI.

Altered Traits

Minor Leaders


Tethira,
keeps her traits (Ind/Mag).

Kane,
was Def/Rai,
is now Rai.

Thessalonica,
was Def/Org,
is now Agr.

Vola
keeps her traits (Arc/ing).

Lamalha
keeps her traits (Arc/Mag).

Ivelleth,
was Org,
is now Org/Par.

Vitnir,
was Def/Ing/Spi,
is now Ing/Spi.

Shekinah,
was Def,
is now Sci.

Laggs
keeps his traits (Ing/Mag).

Minister Koun
keeps his trait (Phi).

Ostanes
keeps his trait (Cre).

Uldanor,
was Def,
is now Def/Opp.

Tya Kiri
keeps her traits (Arc/Sum).

Thudr
keeps his traits (Arc/Spi).

Duin
keeps his traits (Agg/Agn).

Weevil & Co.
keep their traits (Agg/Foo/Rai).

Furia the Mad,
was Cha/Cre,
is now Cha.

Melisandre,
was Def/Exp,
is now Def/Dec.

Hafgan,
was Mag/Rai,
is now Gre.

Rivanna the Wraith Lord,
was Org/Sum,
is now Arc/Sum.

Volanna,
was Agg/Exp,
is now Agr.

Mahon
was Agg/Rai,
is now Rai.

Averax the Cambion
keeps his traits (Agg).

Gosea
keeps her traits (Phi/Mag).

Sallos
keeps his traits (Cha/Rai).

Lethe,
was Bar/Fin/Spi,
is now Spi/Tra.

Ouzza,
was Agg/Bar,
is now Agg/Imp.

Judecca,
was Bar/Phi,
is now Phi/Sci.

Dumannios,
was Agn/Fin,
is now Agn/Fin/Def.

Anagantios,
was Agn/Org,
is now Agn/Imp.

Khset,
was Def/Org,
is now Cre.

Maer
was Agn/Cha/Ing,
is now Agn/Ing/Tra.

New (Minor) Leaders

You can click on the buttons to see full pictures. Some art need to be redone (Zodalore, Ukasta, Gauthi). The first two because I did them before knowing the 125% stretching trick and the last because it seems just wrong. Also, sorry for the poor quality. I took screenshots and edited them in Paint for quickness. The three Mercurians leaders have a bigger picture because I took most of the shots in the Play Now! civ selection screen and the Mercurians don't appear here, so I had to take their screens in the Pedia, where the pictures are bigger.


Amurites
Verlain (Arc/Cre), Evil
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/verlain_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/verlainScreen.jpg)
Bannor
Angaad (Imp), Good
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/bannor01.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Angaad.jpg)
Calabim
Kro'mear (Gre/Dec), Evil
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/cala01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/KroMear.jpg)
Clan of Embers
Hehnku (Opp/Bar), Evil
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/clan02_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Hehnku.jpg)
Ji (Arc/Bar), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/clan01.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Ji.jpg)
Doviello
Sirvagha (Agg/Bar), Evil
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/doviello01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Sirvagha.jpg)
Elohim
Meelais (Fin), Good
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/elohim01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Meelais.jpg)
Grigori
Zodalore (Dec/Phi), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/grigorifemaleabuttoncopy.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Zodalore.jpg)
Outhe (Sci/Phi), Good
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/grigori02_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Outhe.jpg)
Menec (Cha/Phi), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/grigori03_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Menec.jpg)
Hippus
Ilithiridan (Tra), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/hippus01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Ilithiridan.jpg)
Illians
Raitlor (Tra/Agn), Evil
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/IlliansF01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Raitlor.jpg)
Khazad
Ukasta (Gre), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/ukasta_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/ukastaScreen.jpg)
Kuriotates
Cith Mor (Agr/Cen), Good
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/kurio01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/CithMor.jpg)
Lanun
Palgadee (Spi), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/lanun01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Palgadee.jpg)
Ljosalfar
Jurla (Agr), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/ljos01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Jurla.jpg)
Luchuirp
Kish'rika (Agg/Par), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/luch01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/KishRika.jpg)
Malakim
Saralet (Exp), Good
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/malak01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Saralet.jpg)
Mazatl
Mihuatl (Arc/Sla), Evil
http://s702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/maza01_button-1.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/mihuatl2.png)
Mechanos
Olver (Sci/Ing), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/mechanos01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Olver.jpg)
Mercurians
Ferthegis (Phi), Good
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/mercu01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Ferthegis.jpg)
Dauvum (Org), Good
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/mercu02_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Dauvum.jpg)
Bertus (Cha), Good
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/mercu03_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Bertus.jpg)
Scions of Patria
Gauthi (Ind), Evil
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/scions01_buttoncopy.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Gauthi.jpg)
Sheaim
Os-Warqa (Cre/Dec), Evil
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/sheaim01_buttoncopy.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/OsWarqa.jpg)
Sidar
Futiro (Spi/Def), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/sidar01_button.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Futiro.jpg)
Svartalfar
Hatheim (Exp/Ing), Neutral
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/ElfGirl.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Hatheim.jpg)


Alignments stats

Good: 8
Neutral: 11
Evil: 8

Lots of neutral leaders now! Well, at least they're more interesting because they are able to found any religion :)

Leaders: Empty Slots

If I remember well, Ahwaric wants to stick to a maxima of 5 leaders per civilization. I want to stick to the same idea, giving me a limit to not add leaders every now and then. So, this list is here for knowing whether or not a leader could be added to a civilization. Thus, if you have any suggestion for a new leader...

Bannor: 1
Malakim: 2
Elohim: 1
Mercurians: 1
Luchuirp: 1
Kuriotates: 1
Ljosalfar: full
Khazad: 1
Sidar: full
Lanun: 1
Grigori: 1
Hippus: 1
Amurites: 1
Doviello: 1
Balseraphs: full
Clan of Embers: full
Svartalfar: full
Calabim: 1
Sheaim: full
Infernals: full
Illians: 1
Mazatl: 1
Mechanos: 1
Scions: 1

Not many slots left... Don't be shy to request leaders (even just a picture you like!). If I really like it, I will add it, even if it means removing a leader a just extending the threshold to 6 :p

By the way, I'm thinking of extending it to 6 for three civs: Bannor, Calabim and Malakim, because Decius takes many slots...

Reserved!
Will be used for the new personalities :)

New Diplomatic Tags

Hated Civic

Again, one picture:http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/HatedCivic.jpg
What is it? It's four new tags: iHatedCivicAttitudeChange, iHatedCivicAttitudeDivisor, iHatedCivicAttitudeChangeLimit and HatedAttitude. It works exactly like FavoriteAttitude except that you need to put negative numbers in the i* tags.

Another picture:http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/th_HatedCivicPediaScreen.jpg (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/Misc/HatedCivicPediaScreen.jpg)
It's tricky to add that little line... But that's done :)

Tweaking

MainMod

The XLS Editor and the LENA DLL are available with the main download now. The DLL contains only the files I modified and you can find all the changes by searching for "Opera".

Internal Plug-ins

No plug-in is up to date yet.


ElohimGuardians v0.21 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221239&d=1247828542) (.36beta compatible): I list it here since Pazyryk is on hold for now. I ported his changes into a plug-in and I will do necessary or wanted changes :) See this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=327616) for more information. I hope Pazyryk won't mind!


External Plug-ins


Isotope's Civics Reworking v2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325183) (.3 compatible)

Progress

This is a little to do list to help me track my changes. I want to share it with you folks, thus you will be able to track my progress in the mod.



New MinorLeaders

Art
Traits
Names
Personality

FfH attributes
Basic values
Thresholds
Contacts (0%)
Memories (0%)

RandomCompactLeaders

Infernals
Mercurians


Traits Reworking

New Traits
Tweaking MinorLeaders Traits
Tweaking Leaders Traits
Tweaking Civilization Traits

Amurites
Elohim
Sheaim
Sidar
Grigori


Personalities Revamping

Inter-leaders relationships

Importing from the History of the Three Kingdoms
Displaying modifiers in diplobubble
Displaying leader-specific diplotext

Tweaking MinorLeaders Personalities (13%)
Tweaking Leaders Personalities

New Diplomatic Tags

Hated Civic
Hated Wonder
Hated Religion
Bonus Attitude




Changelog of next patch

Patch A


[CIV4GameText_Alba-01-Main.xml] Changed a thing related to tips;
[CIV4GameText_Alba-01-Main.xml] Changed the Gnoll Worker's HELP;


To-Do List

Increasing civic pressure if targeted leader has leader's HatedCivic
HatedReligion tag
Adding a iFavoriteWonderAttitudeChange tag in order to be able to modify the diplobonus given to the civ possessing the FavWonder
Merging StateNames from FF
Tweaked traits of regular leaders
Random leader of according civilization when Mercurians or Infernals enter the world

Fluff

List of Fluff done, nearly done, for leaders.

Hatheim
She's an aristocrat of the Svarts who took a great part in the assasination of Faeryl Viconia (and thus in the reunification of the Elven Court). Because of this, she was exiled (though thanked in a way) by the Court. Many Svarts followed her and choose her to rebuild a Svartalfar Kingdom.
She's smart and very aware of the needs of her citizens. She knows a bit of magic from her past lover (a female Illusionist).
Kro'Mear
She was just another vampire when a people revolt arose in an oversea city of Decius' empire. She took command of the city when the governor died and never ever gave feedback about the situation to the central government, unofficially declaring her independance. The other vampires were eager to split from the Empire.
She's very greedy. She would do anything for wealth or acquiring things she wants. She's also very promiscuous when it comes to males.
Palgadee
She's a religious leader who's just a captain and a governor of one of the numerous Lanun cities. Before becoming a governor, she was hired by Talos, a techpriest of the new "Mechania", to fool Menec, a Grigori, in thinking he was buying a hair of Sucellus. She and Menec shared a night. She's holding a grudge against him though because he seems to hold a true hair of Sucellus.
She's a very quiet person when not under alcohol influence. Reserved, daydreaming. When influenced by rum, she tends to boast or cry a lot.
Menec
He's one of the people who are governing the Grigori. He's a member of the council of Junon. He's impetuous but loved by his citizens.
Sirvagha
He's a very aggressive commander of the Doviello. He usually fight in werewolf form and among his fellow warriors.
Raitlor
After Auric's death, she convinced her people he had in fact ascended to true godhood and was watching upon them. She then succeeded to make peace with the Lanun Alliance through a vassalage. However, due to the neverending winter, the Alliance soon freed the little Illian state. She's the highest religious figure of the state. She lost many of her sisters who were willing to took Garduk but failed and died. She has two sisters left (they were 7).
Talos
He's a techpriest from the Mechanos. He hired Palgadee to make Menec think he had bought a hair of Sucellus, thus trying to prove that belief only is making things magical. However, it seemed it was a true hair of Sucellus.
Leasieigh
She's a Sidar commander who tried to lead her people to war in order to expand their territory. She soon was contacted by Gyra, Basium's sister. She told Leasieigh about Laroth's plans and how the Sidars were all fooled. She was nearly killed in battle the day after that. She spent her recovery time thinking about Gyra's revelation and then began to talk to her fellow Sidar about it. Many assassins were sent to kill her but she survived and her believer soon grew in numbers. They led an assault on Celo's palace and recovered some highly guarded books and, more importantly, the Nether Blade. Then they took off south and Leasieigh founded her dissent Sidar kingdom.
She later saved Hatheim from the Sheaim (they captured her and mostly razed her kingdom), killing Arrhaisle, the Sheaim commander who kept the Svartalfar leader as a personal slave (Arrhaisle then came back and she sought Hatheim but that's another story).
Nakir Thargo
He's a dwarf born in the Kuriotates. He rose to the commander role early in his life and fought against the Balseraphs and Zodalore's Grigori most of the rest of it.


How to help?

How can you contribute? There's some ways:

Feedback: Always appreciated. Sometimes it's even considered and added! Balance feedback would be greatly helpful.
Writing: Fluff stories for new minor leaders would be warmly welcomed. Diplotext for new leaders too. Fluff and diplotext for regular minor leaders should go into the CivPedia thread ;)
Suggesting: I consider every suggestion. You can suggest whatever you want: ideas, leaders, etc.


There's also some specific areas on which I would like to receive help:

Inter-leaders relations: Some are already done but I could easily overlook some that you think are obvious. Feel free to say it.
Altered personalities: What would you like to see as behavior for leaders? Guidelines for tweaking each leaders would be useful.


Credits

Many traits ideas from History of Three Kingdoms mod.
Inter-leaders relations from HoTK.
Many traits ideas from MinorLeaders modmod by Notque.
Jabie for his work on Talos :)
Pedia Text:
Jabie -> Menec, Palgadee, Talos
Icarussc -> Sirvagha, Saralet, Angaad, Outhe
Black Whole -> Bertus
Diplo Text:
Icarussc -> Sirvagha, Saralet, Angaad, Outhe
Black Whole -> Bertus
Art:
Angaad -> Jeffrey M. de Guzman (CGSociety)
Sirvagha -> Michal Ivan (CGSociety)
Bertus, Hatheim, Futiro -> Kirsi Salonen
CithMor, Meelais, Ilithiridan -> Justin Sweet
Gauthi -> Michal~ Bernat (CGSociety)
Hehnku -> Blaise (ConceptArt)
Ji, KishRika -> Jason Chan
Jurla -> Keun Chul
KroMear -> AlgenPFleger (ConceptArt)
Menec -> One-Vox (VandalHigh.com)
Olver -> Mark Winters (ConceptArt)
OsWarqa -> Troy Packer (CGSociety)
Outhe -> Kody (ConceptArt)
Palgadee -> David Revoy (CGSociety)
Raitlor -> Sara Justesen (CGSociety)
Saralet -> David Munoz Velazquez (CGSociety)
Zodalore -> Socar Myles
Dauvum -> chang liu (CGSociety)
Ferthegis -> Dwinbotp (ConceptArt)
Mihuatl -> plue (DeviantArt)
Verlain -> Sergey Urlapov (CGSociety)
Ukasta -> Tomasz Jedruszek (CGSociety)

Opera reviving operation started. 1000 Volts for starters... Charge... Clear:bump: Welcome back, we still need you :)

We did minor leaders changes at the same time... Some are the same, some are different (Rivanna the wraith lord without summoner? ;) )

But anyway, good luck. I am sure I will steal some features for the main modmod :D
You kept silent about Inter-leaders specific values - great idea.

Opera reviving operation started. 1000 Volts for starters... Charge... Clear:bump: Welcome back, we still need you :)Good to know :)

We did minor leaders changes at the same time... Some are the same, some are different (Rivanna the wraith lord without summoner? ;) )Well, I guess this is one of the time when my English fails me. And, to be honest, I wanted Hatheim to have Sum and to be the only one Svart to have it... If I recall correctly, Sum isn't a "minor trait", isn't it?

But anyway, good luck. I am sure I will steal some features for the main modmod :D I hope so :p I hope some leaders will please you, too.

You kept silent about Inter-leaders specific values - great idea.I mentioned it somewhere (as an idea I would want to add) and then discovered it has already been done by the great team of the HoTK mod (they did so many things!). That's why I asked you about the DLL in the Welcome thread... I still haven't ported the changes to Orbis (only in FfH for now) because I thought you were gonna do some more changes in the DLL. I hope you'll release the source with the 0.23 :p

If you are changing the dll for diplomacy reasons anyway, I think ti would be a good idea to change the way resources like death and entropy mana effect diplomacy to be based on the individual leader and/or civ. Currently, leaders have one attribute that is multiplied by a tag in the resource file to determine how resources effect them. Entropy and Death mana are the only resources to effect diplomacy, and Entropy always has twice the effect of death. I really think that the Sidar leaders should hate Death mana more than Entropy. Sabathiel should also probably dislike Chaos mana. I think that Force mana should have a positive effect on everyone's relations, but as it is now 9in my version) it hurts relations with the Infernals and Sheaim and more worrisone it doesn't effect relations at all with a lot of leaders. It could be nice to have all leaders have positive relations towards those using their patron mana (with the exception of the Sidar, since Death is really undeath and is abhorrent to Arawn) and negative towards those with the opposite sphere mana.


Making it so that religions and/or alignments can change the diplomatic effect of resources would also be nice.

I also think that adding Hated wonders in addition to favorite wonders could be a good idea.

Very cool stuff! Thanks! it seems like just the post took tons of work... glad Ahwaric could revive you. :) Have a question about the trader trait; is that +15 per trade route or just +15 when a any route is established? If per route that is an Uber-super-ultra trait.

Very cool stuff! Thanks! it seems like just the post took tons of work... glad Ahwaric could revive you. :) Have a question about the trader trait; is that +15 per trade route or just +15 when a any route is established? If per route that is an Uber-super-ultra trait.Hmm... good call. I check in the DLL and found this: if ((iTradeProfit > 0) && (GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).getTradeYieldModifie r(eIndex) > 0))
8340: return ((iTradeProfit * GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).getTradeYieldModifier (eIndex)) / 100);It seems that, as I thought initially, the TradeYieldModifiers are percentile, not raw units. So it's 15%/:traderoute:, not 15/:traderoute: ;)

@Magister: Very good ideas there. I think the Hated Wonder could be easy to add. The mana-thing, however, would be trickier but I can try. I didn't understand what you meant with the "diplomatic effect of resources", care to explain?

Edit: Nevermind, I understand now. You mean, say, -2 relation if you have Cows?

Some leaders will give you a negative relations bonus if you are using a mana such as Death or Entropy. They will say somthing like "-4 you use death mana!" and "-8 you use entropy mana!".

Oh, I re-re-understand. So you would like to be able to have an array of tag like BONUS_NATURE_MANA, with an integer value like -2 for each leader and infinite so you could add any bonus? And then, you would like, say, that, if following AV, a civ that would give -8 for having entropy wouldn't give any malus at all?

The art for your new leaders seems different than the other leaders and existing minor leaders. If thats what you intended than forget this post... but if you needed quick art, it seems like there is tons of stuff from the great person popups I think you could steal.

Sputnik: I think most of the art fits well with the other FfH art. However, I may be wrong... Feel free to tell me once I would have released the first version (and once you would have seen the full arts) ;)

Or maybe I could just upload and show full pictures now...

Sputnik: I think most of the art fits well with the other FfH art. However, I may be wrong... Feel free to tell me once I would have released the first version (and once you would have seen the full arts) ;)

Or maybe I could just upload and show full pictures now...

My bad.. they probably fit fine (from the little we can see :))... i was just thinking you had the full art shown and they would just be faces rather than body shots!

My bad.. they probably fit fine (from the little we can see :))... i was just thinking you had the full art shown and they would just be faces rather than body shots!Oh, right! No no, the art I've shown is just head shots of the leaders :)

Wow, looks like quite a bit work here. :eek: I especially like the new relations file... Might have to steal it from you. :lol:

Wow, that looks really interesting. I love the idea that different leaders will react differently depending on who they are negotiating with. That should really bring a lot more flavour to the game and make every game even more unique than it is at the moment.

Deciver might be better as Deceptive; Paranoiac might be better expressed as Paranoid.

I don't understand how the Sheaim racial trait works - What does the term Revival mean?

Re: Mechanos. Some of the civpedia entries I wrote introduced the leader of the tech-priests, a somewhat dubious character named Talos. He might make an interesting character to use especially if you can _uSe HiS vOiCe_ in the diplomacy screens.

I don't understand how the Sheaim racial trait works - What does the term Revival mean?

I think it was used from the other mod as an example... look at it and replace Revival with Ashen Veil and I think it will make sense.

@Opera - will the new traits be adoptable? like if you build great lighthouse you get 30% chance to gain trader.

Wow, looks like quite a bit work here. :eek: I especially like the new relations file... Might have to steal it from you. :lol:I expected that from you :lol: That would be easy. I could even write you a "how-to steal my stuff: inter-leaders relations", if you want... or not, if you prefer doing the search (and the debugging) yourself :p

Wow, that looks really interesting. I love the idea that different leaders will react differently depending on who they are negotiating with. That should really bring a lot more flavour to the game and make every game even more unique than it is at the moment.Thanks :)

Deciver might be better as Deceptive; Paranoiac might be better expressed as Paranoid.I believe you. As I said many times, English isn't my native language so I may do mistakes. I will change those :)

Re: Mechanos. Some of the civpedia entries I wrote introduced the leader of the tech-priests, a somewhat dubious character named Talos. He might make an interesting character to use especially if you can _uSe HiS vOiCe_ in the diplomacy screens.Yes, that could be an interesting idea. Do you have any picture and/or idea for traits?

I don't understand how the Sheaim racial trait works - What does the term Revival mean?
I think it was used from the other mod as an example... look at it and replace Revival with Ashen Veil and I think it will make sense.Sputnik answered your question ;)

@Opera - will the new traits be adoptable? like if you build great lighthouse you get 30% chance to gain trader. Good call again. I forgot to include that in my worksheet... I think I would make that too. In fact, maybe I should review how traits are acquired... And, btw, I don't know if any of those new traits should/would be selectable with Adaptive. Any thought?

I'll try to upload (or, at least, give links to original) art for the new leaders, so you could see them in full size :)

Yes, that could be an interesting idea. Do you have any picture and/or idea for traits?

From the Civpedia: ...Secretive in the extreme, tech-priests dress in long flowing robes which hide their bodies. They adorn their faces with silver masks that completely obscure their identity, leaving some to speculate as to whether or not the body beneath the apparel is composed of flesh or metal.

To hear a tech-priest speak is a unique experience. Their mouths smothered with soulless facade, no lips move as they voice their sentiment...

I figure something akin to the Doctor Who story The Robots of Death (See http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sflare.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/robots_of_death.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sflare.com/archives/15-classic-doctor-who-stories-for-new-fans/&usg=__yLYBfIzAfMXT9JSvWYxFLz5GkRw=&h=480&w=640&sz=40&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=-dinG_X1V5L9pM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drobots%2Bof%2Bdeath%26hl%3Den%26sa%3D N%26um%3D1) though I'm not sure where you could get a fantasy-esque picture that looked something like that.

It could also be a good idea to make the resource based diplomacy modifies take into account how much of each mana type you the leader has. It seems odd that someone who just dabbles a little in death magic (i.e., has 1 death node) should be viewed the same as someone whose whole empire is built around the undead and has turned every node in the world into death mana.

Religion-resource would probably be best just added on top of the default ones, so an Order Sabathiel likes Law and dislikes Chaos even more than an Empyrean one and so that leaders who usually don't care about Entropy would like it if following the AV.




The <iBadAttitude> tag in CIV4BonusInfos.xml and the <iAttitudeBadBonus> tag in CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml are all that control diplomatic effects of bonuses now, and could easily be removed if a more versatile system was added. (The tag aren't named that well, as a positive iBadAttitude value means most leaders will like you more for having it.)


It might be better to convince Xienwolf to make these changes to FF (which I assume would be carried over to Orbis) instead of doing it yourself, so I don't have to try merging it in when I eventually get around to making an FF based version of my modmod again.

From the Civpedia: ...Secretive in the extreme, tech-priests dress in long flowing robes which hide their bodies. They adorn their faces with silver masks that completely obscure their identity, leaving some to speculate as to whether or not the body beneath the apparel is composed of flesh or metal.

To hear a tech-priest speak is a unique experience. Their mouths smothered with soulless facade, no lips move as they voice their sentiment...

I figure something akin to the Doctor Who story The Robots of Death (See http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sflare.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/robots_of_death.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sflare.com/archives/15-classic-doctor-who-stories-for-new-fans/&usg=__yLYBfIzAfMXT9JSvWYxFLz5GkRw=&h=480&w=640&sz=40&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=-dinG_X1V5L9pM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drobots%2Bof%2Bdeath%26hl%3Den%26sa%3D N%26um%3D1) though I'm not sure where you could get a fantasy-esque picture that looked something like that.http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=133&t=725710&highlight=mask
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=133&t=479889&highlight=mask
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=133&t=476134&highlight=mask
http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g08/73608/73608_1218026109_large.jpg
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=133&t=430797&highlight=mask

I like the last one, even though it's a woman...

@Magister: Or I can do it and, then, xienwolf would import it... :)
I thought a Hated Civic should be done to, since you talked about a Hated Wonder. Ideally, I would like to create a "scale" tag in order to set how many diplopoints a leader would give to another one that has its Hated thing or favorite thing.

I like the second one myself. Sure the mask is bronze, not silver, but Talos is the high-priest anyway, so he could have different raiment from the rest of the tech-priests. As for traits Scientific is an obvious first choice, Spiritual *or* Philosophical probably fit the second one.

Re: Resources. Doesn't Perpentech have a thing for Cows? (And likewise Charadon Tea, but that's not an in game resource)

I like the second one myself. Sure the mask is bronze, not silver, but Talos is the high-priest anyway, so he could have different raiment from the rest of the tech-priests. As for traits Scientific is an obvious first choice, Spiritual *or* Philosophical probably fit the second one.I don't know for the traits. If he's a minor leader, maybe he would only have one trait. I like the second one picture too, I was skeptical because he (it?) doesn't seem to wear a robe. But if it's fine for you, then it's fine for me :)

Re: Resources. Doesn't Perpentech have a thing for Cows? (And likewise Charadon Tea, but that's not an in game resource)Isn't tea in the game?

I changed some things:

The Sundered tweak is done;
You can see the full pictures of the leaders;
I changed Paranoiac to Paranoid and Deceiver to Deceptive;
I will add pictures credits.

I had an idea for inter-leader relations: Beeri Bawl and Perpentach.

Beeri would probably hate Perpy, and thus get a hefty -relations, while Perpentach found Beeri amusing enough to let go, thus giving a +relations. It would be weird, but thats the Balseraph way. :)

I had an idea for inter-leader relations: Beeri Bawl and Perpentach.

Beeri would probably hate Perpy, and thus get a hefty -relations, while Perpentach found Beeri amusing enough to let go, thus giving a +relations. It would be weird, but thats the Balseraph way. :)Great idea! I added it :)

Oooooooh..... SHiiiiiiNyy....... :p

Seems interesting, subscribed

And also, wouldn't the Bannor hate Clan guts?

Oooooooh..... SHiiiiiiNyy....... :p

Seems interesting, subscribedThanks :D

And also, wouldn't the Bannor hate Clan guts?Yes, certainly. However, would Sabathiel be so grudgy? I don't know...

It also seems to me that Flauros would hate Varn Gossam (because he is just too Shiiiiiinyyyyy).

@Seon: In Shiiiinyyyy mood?

I added the HatedCivic tag mentioned earlier. Check the first post(s) :)

This may need its own thread, but since you are already working with relations and diplomacy... I thought it would be good to run this by you first:

I think it would add a lot to be able to make threats in diplomacy. The way this would work would be like... I'm at peace with my neighbor and I want them to cancel deals with my enemy who I'm at war with. It may be even be red because they likely do not want to cancel deals. Having a new option, I could put cancel deals, and click threaten war. Several things could happen... If they calculate I'm weaker then them, they may declare war. If we are equals, there could just be a high negative similar to making demands but higher. If they do not want war they would do what I wanted and cancel deals.

Threats are an 'in-between' option of just declaring war over something like open borders or making demands that go nowhere. It would be nice to make a demand, they say no, threaten war, and they give in... or war is declared. - And it would be nice to make threats over red options that they would really give in if it was war.

And a question... was it helpful looking at Snarko's mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=226635) for diplomacy?

This may need its own thread, but since you are already working with relations and diplomacy... I thought it would be good to run this by you first:

I think it would add a lot to be able to make threats in diplomacy. The way this would work would be like... I'm at peace with my neighbor and I want them to cancel deals with my enemy who I'm at war with. It may be even be red because they likely do not want to cancel deals. Having a new option, I could put cancel deals, and click threaten war. Several things could happen... If they calculate I'm weaker then them, they may declare war. If we are equals, there could just be a high negative similar to making demands but higher. If they do not want war they would do what I wanted and cancel deals.

Threats are an 'in-between' option of just declaring war over something like open borders or making demands that go nowhere. It would be nice to make a demand, they say no, threaten war, and they give in... or war is declared. - And it would be nice to make threats over red options that they would really give in if it was war.Interesting idea, although I don't know (yet) how to code it... Diplomacy interactions like that are a bit difficult to do iirc what I read in many threads. I will try to take a look though :)

And a question... was it helpful looking at Snarko's mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=226635) for diplomacy?To be honest, I had forgotten... So many things to do with my mods, I forgot many other things! :lol: I just took a look at Snarko's work and some things seems interesting, especially betterSeaAi and newAiDiplo.

By the way, any thoughts on the civilization traits?

I just remarked that the Elohim are Tolerant and that Cardith Lorda is Tolerant too. I don't really like CivTraits used as mere traits for other leaders... Kind of pointless to be "Civ" trait when other civs can use it. Anyway, I'm still planning to add that Benevolent one to the Elohim.

Idea for the Amurites trait: Arcane units would gain XP according to the number of mana resources owned by the civilization.

Only trait I dislike, would be that proposed for the Sheiam. It basically forces you to play AV... That might be the best religion for them, but I still dislike forcing players to do that.

I could easily tweak it (being python only) so that the "auto convert" part is only applied to the AI. And it could still be able to convert to another religion after.

Idea for the Amurites trait: Arcane units would gain XP according to the number of mana resources owned by the civilization.

By the way, any thoughts on the civilization traits?

Really like them... a lot, and think it would be cool to have any religion spread fast for Sheaim.

I like the Amurites trait - very fitting. - If Amurites + (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=320146) ever gets incorporated into orbi it would be cool to have a civ trait that lets them have less mages required for rituals and allow all civs to do channeling rituals

Thought of one for the Calabim: Blood letting = +1 :food: per population. Hey when they use each other for food it makes sense :)

Lanun: Pirates' bounty = all ships get the bounty promotion

Belsaraphs: Odd discontent = unhappy population give +1 :culture:

Ill try to think of more later...

I don't think the Sheaim would be "fast-spreaders" of any other religion but AV. I think I'll let the Sundered trait as I've tweaked it for know, waiting for feedback in order to tweak it again.

I'm not sure I like those Rituals from Amurites+. I mean, this is an interesting idea but 12 wizards to cast one spell not that powerful seems a bit much.

I thought of adding civtraits to all civilizations but I don't know if I should...

Personally, I agree on Amurite+, though for different reasons. I love the idea, but it's something the AI could never use... Which is something I don't like. :lol:

Adding civtraits to all civs is a major balance issue, which is why I haven't tried yet... Mostly, I'd add them to weaker civs, and avoid the strong ones.

Which civs are weaker/stronger in your opinion, Valkrionn?

@Jabie: Would you have a pedia entry for your leader? :) And an idea of his personality?

IIRC, the Sidar hate undead so there should be a negative modifier for Calabim and Scions of Patria. I don't remember if the feeling is mutual, I think not.

Which civs are weaker/stronger in your opinion, Valkrionn?

@Jabie: Would you have a pedia entry for your leader? :) And an idea of his personality?

That would be something I can't answer. :lol: Haven't played enough Orbis.

That would be something I can't answer. :lol: Haven't played enough Orbis.And outside Orbis? Any thought?

Hmm... Maybe Amurites, Luchuirp definitely, Kurios and Khazad as well... I also like the ones you proposed for the Sidar and Elohim.

@Jabie: Would you have a pedia entry for your leader? :) And an idea of his personality?

Yes, I have a definite idea but i have to write it first. :) I may need to rope in one of the minor leaders from the Hippus to make it work.

As for personality, Talos, moreso than Verrochio, thinks and talks like a machine. Indeed he may be one. This is reflected in his lack of grammar. He states objects and verbs but won't necessarily bother with words he considers unimportant such as "the" and "is" For instance, a typical declaration of war might read: _TaRgEt NaTiOn ReQuIrEs ElImInAtIoN, aCcOrDaNcE tO pRoJeCt PrOtOcOl._

I'm thinking that every question in the diplomacy thread (e.g. offer of trade) ought to end Y/n

Yes, I have a definite idea but i have to write it first. :) I may need to rope in one of the minor leaders from the Hippus to make it work.

As for personality, Talos, moreso than Verrochio, thinks and talks like a machine. Indeed he may be one. This is reflected in his lack of grammar. He states objects and verbs but won't necessarily bother with words he considers unimportant such as "the" and "is" For instance, a typical declaration of war might read: _TaRgEt NaTiOn ReQuIrEs ElImInAtIoN, aCcOrDaNcE tO pRoJeCt PrOtOcOl._

I'm thinking that every question in the diplomacy thread (e.g. offer of trade) ought to end Y/nWhat would you want to do with a minor Hippus? I have some ideas of who is Ilithiridan, so... I could see if she would fit or not :)

Go ahead and write Talos' diplotext too. I will add it ;)

When I talked about personality, I was more thinking of how it could be reflected in game with the diplomacy mechanics, like how much he dislikes people who have his hated civic (which is?), how much he dislikes close borders, etc.

BTW, I would need his:

Favorite Civic (how many + points?)
Hated Civic (how many - points?)
Favorite Wonder
Alignment
Quote for defeated popup

For some civ traits it seems like the work has already been done for many civs... For example - Illians getting food from snow and tundra - could just give it a name and call it a civ trait - or Hippus already get horselord promotions and bonuses to plains in their improvements. Like Valkrionn said, just give more of a boost to weaker or less flavored, less unique civs.

I'm not Jabie, butMaybe he could have a penalty for any religeon? He is a Priest.

@Jake the Peg: I think I forgot to answer you... Are the Calabim really undeads? Otherwise, Sidar<>Scions is a good idea ;)

@Sputnik: Yeah, I'll surely modify only weak civs...

@Darksaber: Don't agnostics like Cassiel already give a diplomalus to civs following a religion?

@Jake the Peg: I think I forgot to answer you... Are the Calabim really undeads? Otherwise, Sidar<>Scions is a good idea ;)


I'm not quite sure actually, I don't think I've ever actually played Calabim and learned what they're really like. But back before I started playing Orbis and was introduced to Scions, I always thought Sidar's hatred of undead referred to Calabim, since they're vampires and use necromancy to summon skeletons.

Vampires are not undead in FfH, just use a different way to prolongue their lives than Sidar.
I do not think summoning skeletons justifies diplo malus - it is already covered in death mana modifier (do sidar have any?)...

Yeah, that's what I thought. But the Sidar not liking Scions makes sense.

Anyway, I have added a new goodie (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123732&postcount=8). It's a tiny thing, yes, but I'm happy... :p

My mod is updated to 0.23. I just need to finish my new leaders personalities and I'll upload it. I postponed the RandomCompactLeaders component to .2, though.

Hated civic being Despotism is somewhat disagreeable (especially for the Bannor). And that also happens to be everyone's starting civic :s. Gotta watch out for him now :o

In fact, it's a test thing. I just decided I would use Despotism has test because it's the first civic you get, so I could easily see if it worked. I didn't change it yet, so it's still in for this screen... :lol:

Anyway, even if it were his Hated Civic, you wouldn't have to worry at first. A leader can't give you a "Your government is despicable" for a civic she's herself using. Hence, in the case of Sabathiel, at the start, since he would use Despotism too, he wouldn't be . .. .. .. .. .y about it :)

When I talked about personality, I was more thinking of how it could be reflected in game with the diplomacy mechanics, like how much he dislikes people who have his hated civic (which is?), how much he dislikes close borders, etc.

BTW, I would need his:

Favorite Civic (how many + points?)
Hated Civic (how many - points?)
Favorite Wonder
Alignment
Quote for defeated popup


Don't have the game to hand, but...

Favourite Civic: Scholarship (SCIENCE!)

Hated Civic: Theology (FAITH!)

Favourite Wonder: Have to think about that one.

Alignment: Neutral (Remember Good and Evil in FfH are more to do with your relationship with the angelic and infernal powers rather than your moral stance)

Quote for defeated popup: _ErRoR. i Am DeLeTeD, yEt My PrOgReSs WiLl OuTlAsT yOu AlL_

His attitude should be zero towards most leaders, he doesn't bother much with emotions. Other leaders may have positive or negative attitudes towards him.

Anything of Angelic or Infernal origin should get a penalty. ("You are of divine descent") Basically all Infernal and Mercurian leaders are get a -5 penalty. Cassiel and Sabathiel (and Os-Gabella?) get a -3. Ironically, Cassiel admires the atheism gambit and has +2 bonus towards him. +1 bonus towards the Khazad and +2 towards Lucihirp.

Other stuff: +2 bonuses for anyone who has yet to adopt a State Religion ("_FrEeDoM AcKnOwLeDgEd_"), -1 penalty for anyone who has ("_EnSlAvEd To AnOtHeR's WiLl_"), dropping to -2 for the owner of the most popular religion ("_YoU ArE eAsIlY LeD_") Borders will only affect him as per an average leader (doesn't get to caught up in emotion), though he will have a high backstab probability (it was the logical move).

Don't have the game to hand, but...

Favourite Civic: Scholarship (SCIENCE!)

Hated Civic: Theology (FAITH!)

Favourite Wonder: Have to think about that one.

Alignment: Neutral (Remember Good and Evil in FfH are more to do with your relationship with the angelic and infernal powers rather than your moral stance)

Quote for defeated popup: _ErRoR. i Am DeLeTeD, yEt My PrOgReSs WiLl OuTlAsT yOu AlL_

His attitude should be zero towards most leaders, he doesn't bother much with emotions. Other leaders may have positive or negative attitudes towards him.

Anything of Angelic or Infernal origin should get a penalty. ("You are of divine descent") Basically all Infernal and Mercurian leaders are get a -5 penalty. Cassiel and Sabathiel (and Os-Gabella?) get a -3. Ironically, Cassiel admires the atheism gambit and has +2 bonus towards him. +1 bonus towards the Khazad and +2 towards Lucihirp.

Other stuff: +2 bonuses for anyone who has yet to adopt a State Religion ("_FrEeDoM AcKnOwLeDgEd_"), -1 penalty for anyone who has ("_EnSlAvEd To AnOtHeR's WiLl_"), dropping to -2 for the owner of the most popular religion ("_YoU ArE eAsIlY LeD_") Borders will only affect him as per an average leader (doesn't get to caught up in emotion), though he will have a high backstab probability (it was the logical move).Great chunk of infos! :)

Hm... There's some things I can't do yet, though. Namely, most of the diplopoints of your last paragraph. I think the first could be done for any agnostic... Will try to add that. The second one could be implemented easily too... but the drop to -2 would be tricky. What did you mean for borders?

Wonders: Maybe the game is a bit short in numbers of wonders. I think it lacks some diversity... Maybe Talos would like the Order of Arches or a similar guild? When I will do the iFavoriteWonderAttitudeChange, I will allow myself to use National Wonders as FavWonder. I can see leaders liking Heroic Epic or Ironworks.

--

Anyway, I changed something in the DLL:

In base game and FfH, you gain more diplobonus the more you keep at peace with a civilization, meaning that, given enough time (turns), you can have +4 towards some leaders.

The thing is, the diplobonus is calculated even for civs you don't know yet. I think it's silly. So, I added a check that will only increase the AtPeaceCounter if the civ knows the other. No more "+6: "Peace!!!!" with turn-300-met civs.

Great chunk of infos! :) Hm... There's some things I can't do yet, though. Namely, most of the diplopoints of your last paragraph. I think the first could be done for any agnostic... Will try to add that. The second one could be implemented easily too... but the drop to -2 would be tricky. What did you mean for borders?

When I will do the iFavoriteWonderAttitudeChange, I will allow myself to use National Wonders as FavWonder. I can see leaders liking Heroic Epic or Ironworks.

I think the original request mentioned something about borders. I can't see borders being any more or less of a worry for Talos than any other leader.

Ironworks sounds like a good wonder. Given it's National status, maybe reducing the diplobonus to +1 or +2 might work.

As written the Mechanos are fiercely anti-religious. The background is that during the Age of Ice, Baranaxus carved Ice Golems. His guilt became the Machine Spirits used by the Mechanos civilisation. The Machine Spirits, feeling that the Gods had abandoned Erebus, are trying to save Erebus from endless holy wars. Will they achieve such a goal, or merely surrogate worship of gods and demons with worship of machinery - a realisation that the philosophical Verrochio may have subconsciously arrived at, even if he has consciously yet to come to that conclusion.

Of course, this also opens up a faith versus science debate and allows for plenty of room for discourse. Oghma is the God of Knowledge (albeit currently under seige from Mammon), so is a civilisation which is constantly seeking progress, actually unwitting acolytes... And even if the Mechanos succeed and teach the rest of Erebus to rely on themselves rather than higher (or lower) powers, does this mean the end of Gods and Demons, or merely the end of their worship? As Esus may cryptical allude in Verrochios dream (see proposed entry in pedia thread) even if the Lie Become Form is gone, the lies would still live on.

Hmm... I have a few ideas to use for a new Mechanos leader. Would you mind if I use your leader as a base, Jabie?

No, sure, go ahead. When I get some free time, I'll write some background text up for him.

@Darksaber: Don't agnostics like Cassiel already give a diplomalus to civs following a religion?

Not the last time I cheaked, but I might have missed it.

Not the last time I cheaked, but I might have missed it.I'll try to add that :)

@Jabie: Maybe no diplomalus from close borders?

I have new plans concerning a Grigori civ trait (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123721&postcount=3). May or may not be in .1...

Editing all the new leaders' personalities is quite long... :(

Personally, I think that having random races (for units that don't already start with their own race, of course) would make more sense for the Kuriotates than the Grigori, although it could apply to both.

I'm inclined to agree. Kuriotates are racially diverse, the Grigori ought to have traits which express their adventurous nature, such as more likely to receive good results from dungeons or free Courage or Loyalty promotions for (some of) their units.

As for Mechanos / close borders, that sounds fine.

Yeah, I thought that too, about the Kurios... Maybe this trait could be more interesting for them, as some of my ideas would apply better. However, I still think some similar trait could be created for the Grigori. They are from every other civilizations, aren't they? Maybe I should do that for civs and not races? So units created in Grigori cities could gain the Amurite citizen promotion, giving some bonuses; likewise, the Bannor citizen promotion, and so forth. Svart & Ljos would also give Elven... And the Kurios could get rarer races, like Satyr, Centaur (yeah, even though Centaurs are their mounted line), Orcish, even Undead, Angels and Demons under certain conditions.

Any thought on that?

I like the last one, even though it's a woman...

I think the first one fits better as a tech-priest w/o robes. The others look to 'modern' and not steampunk/fantasy enough.

Sorry I'm coming so late to this but darn it if life doesn't intrude on gaming. That and having my computer I play Orbis on conk out didn't help and now I can't play it until it's patched to the new FfH version. :(

I lot of entries lately have been about the Mechanos. I pointed out on a different thread that the Mechanos, Grigori, Illians and Risen Emperor all have some problems in that they can't win many of the victory conditions. For that matter, one would think there should be a evil ritual of the Altar of Lutunar for evil Civs to build.

Anyway, the point I made was while the Grigori tend to have turned their backs on religion, the Mechanos are actively anti-religious or at least believe that the Gods are just another order of being and are tired of them interfering in Erebus. So I still think they need a 'anti-jihad' victory condition where they take down a Holy City or two as well as perhaps keep the amount of cities with religious buildings in them to a minimum.

I like this modmod from what I've seen today because I like how it sets up traditional enemies a bit more. In politics, strange alliances happen but 'natural' enemies should have a lot harder time getting along. I mean I remember playing a FF game and the Chislev and Clan were inseparable throughout the game! :confused:

I know we probably can't have (and most people wouldn't want) the idea of Casus Belli in which unless you have one, you can't declare war without a significant ding in relations to other Civs as well as unrest among your own people. However, I would think there should be a way (especially now) to make it harder for some Civs to go to war with each other. I mean while I can see the Bannor attacking the Elohim, it doesn't make sense that they would over other evil or neutral civs.

@Arkham:

I will think about the victory conditions, even if it isn't a priority right now.

However, I don't know if the casus belli could be done. Some ideas pop up in my mind but I need to think before telling anything.

I'm glad you like the mod :D

___________

@Everyone:

Check out this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123730&postcount=6). I would really be happy to fullfil suggestions, even though they wouldn't be in the first release (if you're intimidated, just take example on Jabie's posts earlier in this same thread).

However, I don't know if the casus belli could be done. Some ideas pop up in my mind but I need to think before telling anything.


Well obviously the casus bellie is a big part of the diplomacy matrix in Europa Universallis and I doubt too many people would stand for it in Civ since it does limit your options. That and Civ doesn't have a stability index except in mods like the Rhyse and Fall.

Right now, however, except for war weariness, there isn't much penalty for going to war. Sure you get a hit if you war on an ally of a Civ but rarely do they seem to do anything about it.

One question though, how long does war weariness last? I mean I'd think that if you got to war for a long time, it would take a while for that to go away after peace breaks out.

Thought up some more traits (civ or leader)

Diplomatic - Free open borders upon meeting a new civ +2 relations with all same civ type: good, evil, neutral.

Tyrant - +0.5 hammers per unhappy population +2 unhappy in all cities +10% food. -3 relations to good leaders

Blood Thirsty - +2 happiness in war -2 happiness in peace +10% military production -30% war weariness

Battle Hardened - new units receive +4 experience and free medic promotion. +50% great general emergence. -85% GPP -10% science +10% unit upgrade cost

Glutton - +2 food per unhealthy point in all cities +4 unhealthiness in all cities

Cannibal - +2 food per population

@sputnik: Ahah, I was searching new traits myself! :lol:

Some interesting ideas. I like Battle Hardened. The others might be a bit difficult to do, though... I will check :p

+4 experience, :eek:!

+2 food per unhealthy point :eek:!

+2 food per pop :eek:!

They seem somewhat overpowered...

Well, concepts are interesting. Values need some tweaks, though.

Here's some ideas from my minor leaders thread...

Don't mind if I do! :lol:

So the first is for Tya Kiri, who seems to me the type to risk her own sanity, and that of others, in search of ever-greater magical prowess. In that spirit, I have made her Reckless-- which gives her Adepts Channeling 2 right out of the gate, but at the cost of a chance each turn that they turn on you. (I'm not actually sure what the exact number should be.) The adepts gain XP faster, however, due to their handling of such advanced rituals-- they gain 1 XP per turn until they reach 15, whereupon you must either give them proper training or else simply wait for them to go mad like any other adept.


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</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
</FreePromotionUnitCombats>
</TraitInfo>


The second is for Lorelei. Two words: skeleton navy.



<PromotionInfo>
<Type>PROMOTION_WATER_MASTERY</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_WATER_MASTERY</Description>
<Sound>AS2D_IF_LEVELUP</Sound>
<TechPrereq>TECH_NEVER</TechPrereq>
<bAmphib>1</bAmphib>
<bRiver>1</bRiver>
<iMovesChange>1</iMovesChange>
<TerrainAttacks>
<TerrainAttack>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_OCEAN</TerrainType>
<iTerrainAttack>50</iTerrainAttack>
</TerrainAttack>
<TerrainAttack>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_COAST</TerrainType>
<iTerrainAttack>50</iTerrainAttack>
</TerrainAttack>
</TerrainAttacks>
<TerrainDefenses>
<TerrainDefense>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_OCEAN</TerrainType>
<iTerrainDefense>50</iTerrainDefense>
</TerrainDefense>
<TerrainDefense>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_COAST</TerrainType>
<iTerrainDefense>50</iTerrainDefense>
</TerrainDefense>
</TerrainDefenses>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Waterwalking.dds</Button>
<bWaterWalking>1</bWaterWalking>
<PromotionSummonPerk>PROMOTION_WATER_MASTERY</PromotionSummonPerk>
</PromotionInfo>



<TraitInfo>
<Type>TRAIT_HYDROMANCER</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_HYDROMANCER</Description>
<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_HYDROMANCER_SHORT</ShortDescription>
<Help/>
<iHealth>0</iHealth>
<iHappiness>0</iHappiness>
<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
<iUpkeepModifier>0</iUpkeepModifier>
<iLevelExperienceModifier>0</iLevelExperienceModifier>
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
<bAdaptive>0</bAdaptive>
<bAgnostic>0</bAgnostic>
<bAssimilation>0</bAssimilation>
<bBarbarianAlly>0</bBarbarianAlly>
<bIgnoreFood>0</bIgnoreFood>
<bInsane>0</bInsane>
<bSelectable>1</bSelectable>
<bSprawling>0</bSprawling>
<iFreeXPFromCombat>0</iFreeXPFromCombat>
<iMaxCities>-1</iMaxCities>
<iPillagingGold>0</iPillagingGold>
<iStartingGold>0</iStartingGold>
<iSummonDuration>0</iSummonDuration>
<iUpgradeCostModifier>0</iUpgradeCostModifier>
<ExtraYieldThresholds/>
<TradeYieldModifiers/>
<CommerceChanges>
</CommerceChanges>
<CommerceModifiers/>
<FreePromotions>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_WATER_MASTERY</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_WATER1</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
</FreePromotions>
<FreePromotionUnitCombats>
<FreePromotionUnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ADEPT</UnitCombatType>
<bFreePromotionUnitCombat>1</bFreePromotionUnitCombat>
</FreePromotionUnitCombat>
</FreePromotionUnitCombats>
</TraitInfo>

<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_HYDROMANCER</Tag>
<English>Hydromancer</English>
<French>Hydromancer</French>
<German>Hydromancer</German>
<Italian>Hydromancer</Italian>
<Spanish>Hydromancer</Spanish>
</TEXT>

<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_HYDROMANCER_SHORT</Tag>
<English>Hyd</English>
<French>Hyd</French>
<German>Hyd</German>
<Italian>Hyd</Italian>
<Spanish>Hyd</Spanish>
</TEXT>

<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_WATER_MASTERY</Tag>
<English>Water Mastery</English>
<French>Water Mastery</French>
<German>Water Mastery</German>
<Italian>Water Mastery</Italian>
<Spanish>Water Mastery</Spanish>
</TEXT>


Note the effective Mobility/Spell extension promotion. I did that for two reasons: mechanically, to give this trait some use starting inland (though the coast is naturally where it shines), and flavor-wise, because it seems to me that mages specializing in water must be tactically fluid and adaptive-- plus, a mage-navy only able to move 1 square per turn would take forever to get anywhere. (My preferred solution was to give them double movement speed on ocean or coast, but for some reason this appeared not to do anything in-game. Although I guess it could be fudged with an autoacquire water-only promotion granting +1 movement...)

This next one is fairly simple-- it's for a Kuriotate leader, and it's a quite powerful economic trait, since Cardith has Adaptive and two others. It's pretty much Financial for food (starting at 3 and working up), with a small gold penalty (due to the quashing of Mammon) and a happiness bonus attached. It pretty much means that you can grow your cities, dare I say it, even more gigantic with the Kuriotates than you can normally. Good times!


<TraitInfo>
<Type>TRAIT_EGALITARIAN</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_EGALITARIAN</Description>
<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_EGALITARIAN_SHORT</ShortDescription>
<Help/>
<iHealth>0</iHealth>
<iHappiness>3</iHappiness>
<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
<iUpkeepModifier>0</iUpkeepModifier>
<iLevelExperienceModifier>0</iLevelExperienceModifier>
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
<bAdaptive>0</bAdaptive>
<bAgnostic>0</bAgnostic>
<bAssimilation>0</bAssimilation>
<bBarbarianAlly>0</bBarbarianAlly>
<bIgnoreFood>0</bIgnoreFood>
<bInsane>0</bInsane>
<bSelectable>1</bSelectable>
<bSprawling>0</bSprawling>
<iFreeXPFromCombat>0</iFreeXPFromCombat>
<iMaxCities>-1</iMaxCities>
<iPillagingGold>0</iPillagingGold>
<iStartingGold>0</iStartingGold>
<iSummonDuration>0</iSummonDuration>
<iUpgradeCostModifier>0</iUpgradeCostModifier>
<ExtraYieldThresholds>
<iExtraYieldThreshold>3</iExtraYieldThreshold>
<iExtraYieldThreshold>0</iExtraYieldThreshold>
<iExtraYieldThreshold>0</iExtraYieldThreshold>
</ExtraYieldThresholds>
<TradeYieldModifiers/>
<CommerceChanges/>
<CommerceModifiers>
<iCommerce>-10</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
<iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
</CommerceModifiers>
<FreePromotions/>
<FreePromotionUnitCombats/>
</TraitInfo>


<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_EGALITARIAN</Tag>
<English>Egalitarian</English>
<French>Egalitarian</French>
<German>Egalitarian</German>
<Italian>Egalitarian</Italian>
<Spanish>Egalitarian</Spanish>
</TEXT>

<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_EGALITARIAN_SHORT</Tag>
<English>Ega</English>
<French>Ega</French>
<German>Ega</German>
<Italian>Ega</Italian>
<Spanish>Ega</Spanish>
</TEXT>



Lastly (for now), the Ljosalfar lass-- can't remember her name-- gets extremely deadly archery units, with Light, Shock, and Woodsman promotions automatically. Because the day I hear the phrase "archers are overpowered in FfH" will be an interesting day indeed.


<TraitInfo>
<Type>TRAIT_AGILE</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_AGILE</Description>
<ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_TRAIT_AGILE_SHORT</ShortDescription>
<Help/>
<iHealth>0</iHealth>
<iHappiness>0</iHappiness>
<iMaxAnarchy>-1</iMaxAnarchy>
<iUpkeepModifier>0</iUpkeepModifier>
<iLevelExperienceModifier>0</iLevelExperienceModifier>
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
<iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
<iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxGlobalBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxTeamBuildingProductionModifier>
<iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>0</iMaxPlayerBuildingProductionModifier>
<bAdaptive>0</bAdaptive>
<bAgnostic>0</bAgnostic>
<bAssimilation>0</bAssimilation>
<bBarbarianAlly>0</bBarbarianAlly>
<bIgnoreFood>0</bIgnoreFood>
<bInsane>0</bInsane>
<bSelectable>1</bSelectable>
<bSprawling>0</bSprawling>
<iFreeXPFromCombat>0</iFreeXPFromCombat>
<iMaxCities>-1</iMaxCities>
<iPillagingGold>0</iPillagingGold>
<iStartingGold>0</iStartingGold>
<iSummonDuration>0</iSummonDuration>
<iUpgradeCostModifier>0</iUpgradeCostModifier>
<ExtraYieldThresholds/>
<TradeYieldModifiers/>
<CommerceChanges/>
<CommerceModifiers/>
<FreePromotions>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_LIGHT</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_SHOCK1</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
<FreePromotion>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_WOODSMAN1</PromotionType>
<bFreePromotion>1</bFreePromotion>
</FreePromotion>
</FreePromotions>
<FreePromotionUnitCombats>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
</FreePromotionUnitCombats>
</TraitInfo>

Yeah, seen them. The third is basically a more powerful version of my agricultural trait.
I could use the fourth one, tweaked of course...
Hm...
*thinking*
...
Anyway, thanks Valkrionn :goodjob:

Personally, my favourite is the second. :lol:

Oh, yeah, I didn't see the SummonPerk tag! It all makes sense now! :eek:

+4 experience, :eek:!

+2 food per unhealthy point :eek:!

+2 food per pop :eek:!

They seem somewhat overpowered...

Have to remember that in orbi it takes 3 food for 1 population, so it would take 3 population to feed 1 if it was +1. Plus the +4 experience comes at a big cost, -85% GPP and -10% science should be the :eek:! IMHO... but I also agree things need to be balanced out.

Oh, yeah, I didn't see the SummonPerk tag! It all makes sense now! :eek:

haha Yes. I think it would make for an... interesting... Amurite game. :lol:

The Belli thing-a-ma-jigger could be done by creating a new diplomacy state of "Pending War" and place players in that for a few turns when they declare rather than allowing a jump straight to being at war. During that time you could initiate a "hostile action" and trigger war early, with a giant penalty to diplomacy from all leaders who know you at the time for doing so. Writing up a full new diplomacy state would quite likely be a daunting task, many things tie in to those.

Yeah, I read somewhere it was hard to do diplomatic things... Anyway, at first, I thought of creating units called Casus Belli with X. If declaring to somebody without the Casus needed, a huge penalty would be added. Of course, how a CB would be gained? Don't know that. However, I think it would be nice for them to not be around from the start but at a tech...

Well, quite hard to do, I think...

Nice! Any chance you could have secondary hated civics?

What do you mean? Like... a second hated civic? A list of hated civics?

What do you mean? Like... a second hated civic? A list of hated civics?

Yes. I know that lowcompassion may work for that i guess.

I think it's doable. In fact, if I did this, I think I would incorporate FavCivic in it. For example, you would have something like:<CivicAttitudes>
. .. .. .. .. .<CivicAttitude>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<CivicType>CIVIC_SLAVERY</CivicType>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeChange>-2</iAttitudeChange>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeDivisor>-6</iAttitudeDivisor>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeChangeLimit>-8</iAttitudeChangeLimit>
. .. .. .. .. .</CivicAttitude>
. .. .. .. .. .<CivicAttitude>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<CivicType>CIVIC_REPUBLIC</CivicType>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeChange>1</iAttitudeChange>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeDivisor>15</iAttitudeDivisor>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeChangeLimit>4</iAttitudeChangeLimit>
. .. .. .. .. .</CivicAttitude>
</CivicAttitudes>This means that the leader would give -2 at first to Slavery users, then -2 again each 6 turns until reaching -8. But the leader would also give 1 at first to Republic users and then 1 each 15 turn until reaching 4.

(Hum, don't mind the dots...)

Okay, done 66% (18/27) of the basic values and thresholds for new leaders... It's a very tedious work and it only represents a fragment of the whole personality. The more interesting things to tweaks are Contacts and Memories which I will do for, I think, .2. I want to release .1 soon, so personalities will be half-done for it.

I think I'll add some more traits for .2 too. I want a bit of variety in traits. Hard to think of ideas though...

might be interesting, give the Mechanos bonuses per holy city they destroy, like sentry to all units when they destroy Esus Shrine

I think it's doable. In fact, if I did this, I think I would incorporate FavCivic in it. For example, you would have something like:<CivicAttitudes>
. .. .. .. .. .<CivicAttitude>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<CivicType>CIVIC_SLAVERY</CivicType>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeChange>-2</iAttitudeChange>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeDivisor>-6</iAttitudeDivisor>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeChangeLimit>-8</iAttitudeChangeLimit>
. .. .. .. .. .</CivicAttitude>
. .. .. .. .. .<CivicAttitude>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<CivicType>CIVIC_REPUBLIC</CivicType>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeChange>1</iAttitudeChange>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeDivisor>15</iAttitudeDivisor>
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .<iAttitudeChangeLimit>4</iAttitudeChangeLimit>
. .. .. .. .. .</CivicAttitude>
</CivicAttitudes>This means that the leader would give -2 at first to Slavery users, then -2 again each 6 turns until reaching -8. But the leader would also give 1 at first to Republic users and then 1 each 15 turn until reaching 4.

(Hum, don't mind the dots...)

But I like the dots! I would love this for my slavery module! Eventually the slaver hating civs get completely sick and tired of being told they are sick and tired of your slaving ways!
Dude, the buildup factor is awesome! Please allow me to borg you. Too late. To say no now would be rude! :assimilate:

might be interesting, give the Mechanos bonuses per holy city they destroy, like sentry to all units when they destroy Esus Shrine

I don't remember (as I haven't played Mechanos in awhile) that perhaps instead of Crusaders, the Mechanos get as special Hospitaller unit that could delete religions like a inquisitor and have a bonus vs. holy warriors. I wish there was a way to perhaps have it have a sort of 'spell' sortof like the Scion one where it would cause unrest dependent on how many religions are in a city.

Plus, in light of the change in leaders soon in North Korea, you'd think that perhaps the Risen Emperor and Auric would be able to use a Great Prophet to create a unique building to glorify themselves in that disturbing "Dear Leader" sort of way. Plus, I do think that the Illians and the Scions need a 'religion' or more properly a cult of personality (CoP) that would enable them to build religious buildings. I don't see either of them going for 'humanism' like the Mechanos and Grigori would.

This CoP would spread mostly in their own borders but probably would have a much less chance of spreading in non-Illian/Scions cities. Perhaps, if it could be coded, the % chance of CoP spreading in non-Illian/Scions cities would change dependent on their victory score. I mean if the Illians are running rampant over creation, you'd think a lot of people would start to believe his hype.

@deadliver: you're a funny mutant, you know? :lol:

@others: for now, I'm not going to add many units or to tweak a civ deeply. What I'm doing is mostly leader-related tweaks.

--

A bit of update about the progress...

I'm two patches late (still working on bare 0.23 while 0.23b is already out) and still 5 missing leaders to tweak. The Sims 3 release doesn't help.

I'm depressed to be so slow.

haha Sometimes going slow is better.... Just spent hours trying to fix something that would've been obvious had I taken my time earlier on. Everything is working great now though... Might wanna look at some of the traits I'm using. :lol: I've already stolen from you, so I don't mind in the least if you steal from me. :p

Thanks, Valkrionn :)

--

I've updated my working version to 0.23b, at least DLL-wise. Still need to do a few adjustements in the editor (as I believe a new tag was added to the civilization file?), in the artdefines and in the python. 1 leader to go and I'll be done tweaking personalities for .1...

Version .1beta released! Check the first post!

So, it's a beta. It should work without issues but it may have some. All the content is not in yet, as you may guess. Many things to do!

Don't forget to check the Download&Install post ;)

Edit: BTW, I added to Einion -6 towards Valledia (isn't she the one who tricked him into killing his wife?) and to Kane -5 towards Varn (isn't he the one who took Kane's place?). Also, Sandalphon has -4 towards every Scions leaders.

Of course you have to release while I'm not home haha. I'll check it out once I am. :goodjob:

@Valkrionn: Did you?

I played two games after the release, with only minor leaders. One as Palgadee of the Lanun, a game which was broken. I mean, the Lanun are broken :lol: But I saw interesting thing. All religions were founded (OO by me, AV and FoL by Mihuatl of the Mazatl, Emp and Order by Saralet of the Malakim and CoE and RoK by me just because I had so much beakers by turn...) and there was a really clear cut between good empires and evil empires. Hatheim of the Svartalfar and Saralet converted to Empy while Ilithiridan of the Hippus choose the Order. Despite their religious difference, they were getting along well, all in the Overcouncil I think. The other side was me, OO, Gauthi of the Scions, OO, and Mihuatl, FoL. I tried giving more cities AV for both those leaders and they chose AV. Jurla of the Ljosalfar was following FoL and was the only neutral...

What surprised me was that AV, Empy and Order were founded really really soon :eek:

The second game I played Cith Mor of the Kurios. I soon met Verlain of the Amurites south of my borders and nearly as soon I met Sirvagha of the Doviello... This man is a beast! He killed Verlain in less than 100 turns :crazyeye: Then I encountered Ji of the Clan because of For The Horde. No religion was founded early... (except the Cult of the Dragon and not even by me). The first religion was mine, the Order. Then the AV was founded by the Sheaim. And that's all.

Diplomacy-wise, I had a hard time getting friends. In game 2, Sirvagha, being Evil, wasn't happy with me (good) but the worst was that I was using Pacifism, his hated civic... he gave me -5. This really destroys a relationship :lol: In game 1, many of my rivals were highly religious and since I was following a religion few followed... Mihuatl, despite our common evilness, wasn't in good terms with me. I don't talk about Saralet (-8 for different religion!) nor Hatheim nor Ilithiridan. Those three good gals are pretty . .. .. .. .. .y when it comes to religion.

Anyway, interesting games. A bit too easy though, as I was playing Noble... Might be time to go up to Prince...

I did, but only got as far as looking at the actual files. Was kidnapped, taken away to watch Hangover. Epic movie... laughed hard enough that I was in tears haha. :lol:

I did, but only got as far as looking at the actual files. Was kidnapped, taken away to watch Hangover. Epic movie... laughed hard enough that I was in tears haha. :lol:

just wait to you get teleported into the Land of the Lost!

Background text for Talos, first draft.

******

Talos

To describe Talos’ laboratory as Spartan would misrepresent the matter. Other Mechanos workshops contained bountiful supplies of equipment. Indeed, the workshop of Maer, the Mechana Excelsior, was cramped to the brim with all manner of strange devices, as if creative reactions might develop from their sheer proximity. There were large glass tubes filled with luminescent liquids, and small pits of fire whose apertures could be adjusted to control the heat, and clockwork chains and gears that could be tuned to record pressure levels, and gunnels and grooves in the desktops and floors to drain away the mess, and, just occasionally, blood. Talos’ workshop, by comparison, was devoid of all surplus accoutrements. If a component was not required for an experiment, it was not to be found. The distraction of the unnecessary was a pollutant to the organised mind, and, presently, Talos was deep in contemplation. His thoughts a tangle of logic knots and quadratic equations and confidence intervals, for Talos was enjoying all the clicks and grinds and whirrs and crunches that combined to form that well-ordered machine, the Palace of the Mechanos.

The puzzle lock on the third floor was running loose. A quarter-turn of the bottom right hand screw would fix it. The chef was putting grinding 58% too much pepper into tonight’s chicken casserole. Talos would mention the failing at luncheon to prevent further lapses. Out in the courtyard, a few of the young girls were singing a skipping rhyme: “The square... on the hypotenuse... of a right-angled tri-aangle... is equal to... the sum of the squares... on the oooopposite sides. YEAH!” Maer had taught them that. It was inefficient means to express the function, completely missing the possibility of spherical and multi-dimensional triangulation, and the overly verbose affirmation at the end was redundant in his considered opinion, but he could not help but notice that the new models were grasping basic geometry with increased ease since Maer had taken up her role.

And there was one other sound. Someone was approaching his chambers, with remarkable alacrity. Menec entered the room, his excitement announced in each step. Talos turned to face exactly as he entered.

_CoMpOnEnTs AcQuIrEd?_

“Yeah. Here catch.” Menec threw two pouches to Talos. He beamed broadly. “Hell of an adventure it was too. There’s one time when I thought the Illians had me for good. Six of ‘em round a pine tree. The blizzard howling a gale at the top. No way up, no way down...”

_CoNvErSaTiOn SeRvEs No PuRpOsE._

“What!?! You don't want to hear my story. I’ve gone half way round the world for you, risked my neck a dozen times, and you can’t even be bothered to say Thank You.”

_SuFfIcIeNt FiNaNcIaL rEcOmPeNsE pReClUdEs ReQuIrEmEnT fOr VeRbAl GrAtItUdE_

“Screw you. Screw you and your money. I put my neck on the line and you act like it’s nothing. My life, my story. It doesn’t mean a damn thing. Screw you and screw your damned machines.” Menec stormed out; Talos did not react in the slightest.

Talos opened the first pouch. The patella fragment fell onto the table. Talos’ temperature sensor told him it was colder than the surrounding room by two orders of magnitude.

A glass vase, containing a rose, stood on the centre of the desktop. Maer had sent down to brighten the place up. Talos, unaware of any fault in the ambient lighting, would have disposed of it, had he not required it for the experiment. The high priest, dressed in the bronze armour of his own design, built to withstand all external threats and pressures, cautiously picked up the bone and held it two inches away from the rose.

Hexagonal patterns spread out across the water, slowly creeping up the sides of the vase with elegant symmetry. The flower took on a grey sheen, a dull pallor that washed up the stem and along each branch in turn. Leaves curled and twisted in its wake, their once-proud vigour robbed, replaced with white rime. Blushing blooms sickened, stamens stilled, fragility endowed by stasis took hold. The rose petals snapped under the weight and fell gracelessly to shatter on the table below.

Talos put the bone back into the pouch and, from the second pouch, removed a single golden hair. He held it aloft, dangling it beside the dead flower. The effect was every part as powerful as before. Immediately, the rose sprung to life. The water unfroze, the colour rushed back into the leaves, unfurling them as it did so. A sweet aroma wafted into the air as the plant became more verdant than before.

Talos returned the hair to his pouch and noted his results in the journal, encrypting them with a code of his own devising. The bone fragment had been genuine. Analysis of the dirt particles confirmed it’s origin as Letum Frigus. There could be no doubt, this was once part of Mulcarn.

The hair, on the other hand, was a control. Menec had been selected for his spirit, his extensive capabilities, and, most importantly, his gregarious nature. If Talos was any judge of people, Menec would have no doubt told every patron of every tavern from here to Illia that he had acquired both a fragment of Mulcarn and a hair from Sucellus’ tomb.

But Talos had secretly arranged for a pirate named Palgadee to sell him the hair. From then on, it had been a simple act of faith. Belief, no more than that, had endowed the hair with miraculous powers. The bards and bar-keeps and barflies believed the hair came from Sucellus and lo, it possessed incredible powers.

Talos, paused, savouring the sound of the great machine once more, before writing his final conclusion. If the power of the Gods was drawn from belief, then they were vulnerable. All it would take was doubt. Talos carefully considered the paradox. All his existence he had striven for perfection, truth and accuracy, now he would need to leave room for error.

*****

I decided to run with a Grigori rather than a Hippus in the end. Whilst Talos will have a +1 positive bonus towards him (_YoU hAvE pRoVeN vAlUaBlE_) Menec will have a -2 negative penalty towards Talos (You failed to show gratitude)

I've a rough idea where Menec's story will go, but I've got to get round to writing that one yet.

I like it :)

I'm glad you included two of my leaders. However, Zodalore is actually a woman. The man Grigori is named Menec. From your story, I suggest you change the name "Zodalore" to "Menec" as the character's behavior is way closer to Menec's than to Zodalore's (she's more calm; she would have plotted revenge against Talos though).

About Zodalore/Menec story, the one you have ideas about, would you care to tell me what they are? I'm curious :p

was thinking (dangerous thing I know!) and I think it would be cool to add a relationship boost for destroying an Arch rival. So when any civ destroys a rival of a leader there is a big boost for that civ. Hyborem may hate you... but if you kill Bassium he might think you are alright to deal with.

Hmmm... Should be possible... Don't know how yet though.

Anyway, I added two game options, one of which will please Ahwaric:

The Acknowledgement: Only minor leaders randomly generated!
Well-Known Faces: No minor leader randomly generated!


Also, I'm planning a Centaur trait for Cith Mor (and maybe for another Kuriocentaur-leader): would give a chance for newly created units to have the centaur race. Of course, the race and the the centaur units will be modified.

Centaur race
+1:move:
+15% withdrawal
1 first strike chance
+25% against Melee units
+10% resist magic
can't acquire Mounted, Dismounted

As for the Centaur units, I have removed the +25% against Melee units when existing, I have decreased the withdrawal chance by 15 and the moves by 1. So, in fact, the Centaur units will look nearly as before.

The most troublesome thing is the UnitArtStyles. Not many variety in Centaur art...

Hmmm... Should be possible... Don't know how yet though.

Anyway, I added two game options, one of which will please Ahwaric:

The Acknowledgement: Only minor leaders randomly generated!
Well-Known Faces: No minor leader randomly generated!



.......This is one thing that I'd *really* like to steal. :lol: Nice work. :goodjob:

About Zodalore/Menec story, the one you have ideas about, would you care to tell me what they are? I'm curious :p

I'll change it to Menec. I've sent you a PM about the other characters.

I'll change it to Menec. I've sent you a PM about the other characters.I answered you by email as I couldn't PM you by CivFanatics ;)

--

@Valkrionn: Of course you want to :lol: Actually, it's not that hard. In CvGame.cpp://FfH: Added by Kael 05/28/2008
int iRndCiv = GC.getDefineINT("RANDOM_CIVILIZATION");
if (iRndCiv != -1)
{
int iAlignment = 0;
int iBestLeader = -1;
int iBestCiv = -1;
int iBestValue = -1;
int iValue = 0;

for (int iPlayer = 0; iPlayer < MAX_CIV_PLAYERS; iPlayer++)
{
if ((GC.getInitCore().getSlotStatus((PlayerTypes)iPla yer) == SS_COMPUTER) || (GC.getInitCore().getSlotStatus((PlayerTypes)iPlay er) == SS_TAKEN))
{
iAlignment = 0;
if (GC.getInitCore().getCiv((PlayerTypes)iPlayer) == NO_CIVILIZATION)
{
GC.getInitCore().setCiv((PlayerTypes)iPlayer, (CivilizationTypes)iRndCiv);
iAlignment = -1;
}
if (GC.getInitCore().getCiv((PlayerTypes)iPlayer) == iRndCiv)
{
if (iAlignment != -1)
{
iAlignment = GC.getLeaderHeadInfo((LeaderHeadTypes)GC.getInitCo re().getLeader((PlayerTypes)iPlayer)).getAlignment ();
}
for (int iCiv = 0; iCiv < GC.getNumCivilizationInfos(); iCiv++)
{
if (GC.getCivilizationInfo((CivilizationTypes)iCiv).i sAIPlayable())
{
for (int iLeader = 0; iLeader < GC.getNumLeaderHeadInfos(); iLeader++)
{
if (GC.getCivilizationInfo((CivilizationTypes)iCiv).i sLeaders(iLeader))
{
if (iAlignment == -1 || GC.getLeaderHeadInfo((LeaderHeadTypes)iLeader).get Alignment() == iAlignment)
{
iValue = 40000 + GC.getGameINLINE().getSorenRandNum(1000, "Random Leader");
for (int iI = 0; iI < MAX_CIV_PLAYERS; iI++)
{
if (GC.getInitCore().getLeader((PlayerTypes)iI) == iLeader)
{
iValue -= 2000;
}
if (GC.getInitCore().getCiv((PlayerTypes)iI) == iCiv)
{
iValue -= 1000;
}
}
/************************************************** ***********************************************/
/** Minor Leaders Options Opera 08.06.09 **/
/************************************************** ***********************************************/
if (isOption(GAMEOPTION_THE_ACKNOWLEDGEMENT))
{
for (int iTrait = 0; iTrait < GC.getNumTraitInfos(); iTrait++)
{
if (GC.getTraitInfo((TraitTypes)iTrait).getUpkeepModi fier() > 0)
{
if (!hasTrait((TraitTypes)iTrait))
{
// Meaning is not minor
iValue -= 40000
}
}
}
}
if (isOption(GAMEOPTION_WELLKNOWN_FACES))
{
for (int iTrait = 0; iTrait < GC.getNumTraitInfos(); iTrait++)
{
if (hasTrait((TraitTypes)iTrait))
{
if (GC.getTraitInfo((TraitTypes)iTrait).getUpkeepModi fier() > 0)
{
// Meaning is minor
iValue -= 40000
}
}
}
}
/************************************************** ***********************************************/
/** End **/
/************************************************** ***********************************************/
if (iValue > iBestValue)
{
iBestCiv = iCiv;
iBestLeader = iLeader;
iBestValue = iValue;
}
}
}
}
}
}
GC.getInitCore().setCiv((PlayerTypes)iPlayer, (CivilizationTypes)iBestCiv);
GC.getInitCore().setLeader((PlayerTypes)iPlayer, (LeaderHeadTypes)iBestLeader);
iBestCiv = -1;
iBestLeader = -1;
iBestValue = -1;
}
}
}
}
//FfH: End Add

I changed three pictures. Here are the new ones, left new, right old:
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/th_mihuatl2.png (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/mihuatl2.png)http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/th_Mihuatl.jpg (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Mihuatl.jpg)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/th_verlainScreen.jpg (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/verlainScreen.jpg)http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/th_Verlain.jpg (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Verlain.jpg)
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/th_ukastaScreen.jpg (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/ukastaScreen.jpg)http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/th_Ukasta.jpg (http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dhivuri/MinorLeaders/Full/Ukasta.jpg)

when will you toss your civ into this?

Ahah, I don't know. As I said in the Ngomele thread, I have some things to first. Furthermore, I don't know if I merge it and keep modding it indepently (thus having two mods) or if I merge it in and mod it the same time (thus having only one mod). I think peoples would want to play them without necessarily wanting other leaders... Anyway, if Ahwaric merges them into Orbis, the issue will be resolved :lol:

Ahah, I don't know. As I said in the Ngomele thread, I have some things to first. Furthermore, I don't know if I merge it and keep modding it indepently (thus having two mods) or if I merge it in and mod it the same time (thus having only one mod). I think peoples would want to play them without necessarily wanting other leaders... Anyway, if Ahwaric merges them into Orbis, the issue will be resolved :lol:

but you have to adequately develop them first...

but you have to adequately develop them first...Of course :) The version you're waiting for isn't a barebone one ;)

Of course :) The version you're waiting for isn't a barebone one ;)

I can help play test ;)

I can help play test ;)You will certainly :) I need to update it first... Then you'll got to betaplay it while I'll be rewriting some functions ;)

Nice job Opera! I really like the way this modmodmod is going. New traits are very fun and the specific diplo adds a fun touch. I played Ji and and she's VERY fun.

A question: why the 5 limits on number of leader per civ? I love the idea of having more. And this limitation doesn't let you add a Balseraph! Also you shouldn't count Decius as he's not really a specific civ's leader. I think it should be *AT LEAST* 5 leaders per civ.

You will certainly :) I need to update it first... Then you'll got to betaplay it while I'll be rewriting some functions ;)

BTW how do you set an avatar (I'm going to steal my favorite gnoll leaders head;))

Nice job Opera! I really like the way this modmodmod is going. New traits are very fun and the specific diplo adds a fun touch. I played Ji and and she's VERY fun.I'm (very very) glad you liked it :D Did you play against new minor leaders? Some are very tough to get along with.

A question: why the 5 limits on number of leader per civ? I love the idea of having more. And this limitation doesn't let you add a Balseraph! Also you shouldn't count Decius as he's not really a specific civ's leader. I think it should be *AT LEAST* 5 leaders per civ.Well, if I recall correctly, I read Ahwaric somewhere saying not wanting to go beyond 5 leaders per civilization. If he didn't say this ever, I'm sorry :p Anyway, I'm planning to go beyond that limit. First, you mentioned it, because Decius is taking slots I could use (for the Bannor for example). So, I won't count him. Secondly, you mentioned it too, I want to add a Balseraph! Thirdly, you mentioned it (again!), I just want to add more leaders. And yes, my goal, for now, is *at least* 5 for each civilization. Side goal is at least a ration of 3 males for 2 females. I know it may seem stupid but I'm like that :p (yes, stupid)

I'm happy now :lol:

BTW how do you set an avatar (I'm going to steal my favorite gnoll leaders head;))Upper left corner, click on My Account. Left hand screen, search for Edit Avatar ;) I wonder which one is your favorite...

Upper left corner, click on My Account. Left hand screen, search for Edit Avatar ;) I wonder which one is your favorite...
I will not really know until I play... (BTW I'll be gone from the 13th-27th, so have it done by the 28th, k?)

I'm (very very) glad you liked it :D Did you play against new minor leaders? Some are very tough to get along with.


This will be WAY more easier with your next version where we'll be able to force minor leaders in the game. Is the XML bit of code you posted enough to implement it? I think I'll have a go.

I will not really know until I play... (BTW I'll be gone from the 13th-27th, so have it done by the 28th, k?):lol: Fun thing is: I will be gone from the 16th-27th... but as a geeky elf (half-centaur, mind you), I will still do things while away :)

@Nonobots: Nope, you won't be able to use it. In fact, it's a bit of DLL code, not XML... So unusable without compiling the DLL first. I have it done on my computer... Hehe... :king:

:lol: Fun thing is: I will be gone from the 16th-27th... but as a geeky elf (half-centaur, mind you), I will still do things while away :)

@Nonobots: Nope, you won't be able to use it. In fact, it's a bit of DLL code, not XML... So unusable without compiling the DLL first. I have it done on my computer... Hehe... :king:

Opera, I will be on a road trip/hiking... all over the Western US

Well, not me! :p I'll be in South-Western France, away from the big city I live in... Perfect thing for time and ideas! (Am I joining in the hijacking onf my own thread?)

Well, not me! :p I'll be in South-Western France, away from the big city I live in... Perfect thing for time and ideas! (Am I joining in the hijacking onf my own thread?)

will you be able to get some decent work in?

Yes, certainly. Sadly, I don't have a laptop, so I would have to borrow the one of my friend, who's a bit picky when it comes to sharing the laptop. And I'll have access to Internet, too... So, don't worry ;)

Hey so are you going to have civics player a larger role in relationships? I think right now they contribute a mighty -1 or -2 when a civ qualifies for lowcompassion.

Well, compassion depends on the leader. I think Ethne gives +2 towards compassionate leaders and -1 towards non-compassionate leaders. That's pretty much all that exists... I mean, all the settings are nearly the same. +2/-1. +1/0. I know I added a -1/+1. Anyway, compassion needs to be reviewed. I think Crusade is compassionate... :eek:

As for civics weighting more in diplomacy, there's the HatedCivic value. For example, the new Doviello leader, Sirvagha, gives a net -5 towards Pacifists. Not -1 and then progressing steadily towards -5. -5 right from the moment you switch to pacifism. He's very dangerous to deal with early...

Well, compassion depends on the leader. I think Ethne gives +2 towards compassionate leaders and -1 towards non-compassionate leaders. That's pretty much all that exists... I mean, all the settings are nearly the same. +2/-1. +1/0. I know I added a -1/+1. Anyway, compassion needs to be reviewed. I think Crusade is compassionate... :eek:

As for civics weighting more in diplomacy, there's the HatedCivic value. For example, the new Doviello leader, Sirvagha, gives a net -5 towards Pacifists. Not -1 and then progressing steadily towards -5. -5 right from the moment you switch to pacifism. He's very dangerous to deal with early...

Coolness. Now get back to work

Well, compassion depends on the leader. I think Ethne gives +2 towards compassionate leaders and -1 towards non-compassionate leaders. That's pretty much all that exists... I mean, all the settings are nearly the same. +2/-1. +1/0. I know I added a -1/+1. Anyway, compassion needs to be reviewed. I think Crusade is compassionate... :eek:

As for civics weighting more in diplomacy, there's the HatedCivic value. For example, the new Doviello leader, Sirvagha, gives a net -5 towards Pacifists. Not -1 and then progressing steadily towards -5. -5 right from the moment you switch to pacifism. He's very dangerous to deal with early...

zerg him, then switch to pacifism and only keep your elite units ;)

zerg him, then switch to pacifism and only keep your elite units ;)

Clever, except that he'd be peeved you took over several cities.

Clever, except that he'd be peeved you took over several cities.

he can only be peeved if he is alive ;)

Screenshots of the centaur trait here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123721&postcount=3). Sorry, the screen is a bit cropped at the bottom... For now, only Cith Mor has it. I plan on adding at least one more centaur leader.

By the way, since I'm talking about Cith Mor, I played a game with her. She's Kurios and Agricultural (+1:food: on tiles with 3:food:). This trait is very very powerful as Kurios, especially on grassland: 1 farm, near river, with Sanitation and Agrarianism: 7:food: :crazyeye:

---

I began to work to add the changes made by Turinturambar in his mod improving the AI (you can find it in the FFH modmod subforum)... but I have trouble knowing if I'm adapting it right. I hope it will be good. I created my own code for religion choosing and it really upsets me. It's a big chunk of code that checks many thing to see if the AI should or not choose to tech a religion founding tech. Well, I'm a bit disappointed with it, don't know why. I will need to test it but it really really annoys me.

Ok I got a Python Exception error again.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217238&stc=1&d=1244597119

Playing as Ji on a Creation map. It was at the end of turn 148. See attached for Python error screenshot. It happened in between turns. I went back to the autosave then saved at the end of the turn. "Sadly" the error doesn't show again. I attached the save just in case.

Something neat happend in the early game. Lucius (promoted to combat 5!) and a bunch of scouts appeared on my doorstep. He declared war, moved in my territory and actually cast his get-a-bunch-of-wolf worldspell. I thought that was very appropriate and well-thought. I would have lost the city if an adept with haste and a bunch of warriors weren't skeleton hunting close to the city. I thought it was a great moment.

You can see it here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217240&stc=1&d=1244597119

I am of the opinion that Cassiel should have a diplomatic bonus towards Einion Logos. Cassiel probably knew Immanuel Logos personally, and would have greatly respected him for abandoning the priesthood of Sirona in order to care for the orphans of the godswar with no regard for their religious beliefs. Immanuel may be a personal hero of his, as well as an old friend and even a big part of the reason he decide to abandon Dagda. Einion Logos is doing all he can to uphold the legacy of his predecessor, and is also noteworthy for defending against the Infernals without going out f his way to wage a crusade, and for opposing the increase in hostilities caused by unleashing the Mercurians. Einion and Cassiel seem to be kindred spirits, and I cannot think of anyone Cassiel would respect more. (Now that I think of it, Cassiel may very well have been the one who decided that the Elohim should be present at the Seven Pines for the signing of the Compact. Even though he could not bring himself to agree to the final terms, it was Cassiel who convinced Dagda to call for it. For all we know, it might even have been Immanuel's idea originally. Anyway, if the Elohim had not shown up there then Sucellus would not have tasked them with caring for his holy sites, and they would be nothing like they are today. Cassiel and the Elohim have close ties dating back long before Kylorin was even born.)

Ethne the White on the other hand, abandoned just about everything Cassiel admired about the Elohim. She was also originally chosen to be queen because of her practicality, a trait Cassiel doesn't really care for. I'm not sure if this is really worth a penalty, but he should at least have no bonus towards her.


Cassiel and Sabathiel are also known to have been good friends, and to respect each other even though Cassiel really doesn't like that Sabathiel still serves Junil and Sabathiel does not like that Cassiel abandoned his duty as archangel of force. I think a small bonus between them could be good, but nothing too big least it let the Bannor drag the Grigori into a crusade.



Although Sabathiel and Basium are both archangels leading militant, anti-demon civs, the scenarios seem to indicate that they don't get along. Capria specifically states "But beware for faithful Sabathiel told of stories of Basium, and he is unbound by mortal virtues." Sabathiel's character is defined most by Loyalty (I'd almost say hesed, but it may be best to save that as a term for only the perfect love characteristic of The One), and Basium has proven disloyal in the past. He abandoned his god, and didn't have nearly as respectable a reason as Cassiel did. Perhaps even worse, he has a deep hatred and jealousy for the current god of life, who should rightfully be his master now. He is not content to play the part set out for him, and is covetous of godhood. He constantly flaunts the rules in order to pursue what he considers a higher good. I'm not sure if Basium should have a penalty towards Sabathiel or if Capria should have a penalty towards Basium, but I don't think Sabathiel should like Basium very much.


Obviously, Basium, Hyborem, and Cassiel should all really dislike each other.


Kael has stated that Basium almost destroyed the Sidar, who survived only with help from his sister Gyra. I'm not sure if he really had something against them personally or if he just didn't like how they refused to join his crusade (although Kael seemed to imply the latter). As such, I'm not sure if Basium should have a malus towards Sandalphon. I'm also not quite sure when this happened. The scenarios do however state that the reason Sandalphon sent Rathaus to kill Ethne and trap her soul in the underworld was because she was going to release Basium. It may be that Basium had come earlier and almost wiped the Sidar out, and that Gyra was able to hold him back until the Mercurian Gate was built. In that case, the Sidar likely hold a huge grudge against Basium even if he is indifferent to the Sidar. They may have a grudge against Ethne too.


Perhaps a bonus between Ethne and Basium would be good, and a malus between Einion and Basium.

Ethne and Dain seem to get along well, and should perhaps have a small bonus between them. Valledia is described much less refined and has never particularly cared for the Elohim, so she could possibly have a tiny malus towards their leaders. Her crudeness however is described as being a boon in relations with the dwarves (she is a lot of fun during drinking games), so maybe she should have a small bonus towards them. If Einion ever figured out that Veledia was behind what happened to his wife, he would likely have a big malus towards Valedia (although he is likely the type that would forgive even her, at least if he thought she had/would change).


Although they both now work for the destruction of the world, I don't think Tebryn would like Hyborem very much. It is Hyborem who claimed his soul and took him to hell, which as we all know he really did not like, and who would likely take him back there if he displeases his new goddess. Perhaps Tebryn should have at least a small malus towards Hyborem.



I'm thinking Varn should have a major grudge against Lethe for taking his wife from him. I'm thinking at least -12. He hardly cares about the other demon lords, but he really wants her to pay.


I'm thinking Falamar should have a malus towards Perpentach while Perpentach has a slight bonus towards Falamar. This is basically just like the relation between Beeri and Perp, but shouldn't be as large since he wasn't there as long. Such a malus/bonus may be appropriate between Perp and all the contestants in The Momus.

That's nice, I just did a bunch of game to test things and ran into this python error. So it's already fixed. FYI, it was caused by the Sheaim taking a city and keeping it. Since their Sundered trait triggers some things when a city is kept :)

I'm happy you enjoy the mod :D I'm doing some modifications to make the AI more interesting to play with/against. I just go it so that the Bannor are doing something in game. Quite pleasant to see that. But I've discovered something. Beware the power of Cith Mor of the Kuriotates! (check the score!)http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217242&stc=1&d=1244598128

The same in a previous testgame. I wonder if this is because of the changes made to the settlements or because of the Agricultural trait... Cith Mor, following FoL, has a capital of 33 pop at turn 250... :eek:

@MC: Your post is awesome. You're making a bit of my life so much easier here. Thanks a lot for that :) I'll read that again and ask questions if I need something.

I'm currently experiencing an uncontrollable urge to play as Cith Mor

So your AI tweaks (making sure some civs don't get crippled right at the start through poor food management, etc) are going in this modmod? I'll have to grab it.

I'm currently experiencing an uncontrollable urge to play as Cith MorI advise you to do so. Played her myself, very fun. Funnier with the Centaur trait (which will come with .2) :lol: I'm testing a game with Lamalha... seems to be less good. I guess the Agricultural trait is that powerful.

@AgentTBC: Yes, I think it will go with LeadersEnhanced. I could still release it independantly as it isn't much, just two or three files.

I am of the opinion that Cassiel should have a diplomatic bonus towards Einion Logos. Cassiel probably knew Immanuel Logos personally, and would have greatly respected him for abandoning the priesthood of Sirona in order to care for the orphans of the godswar with no regard for their religious beliefs. Immanuel may be a personal hero of his, as well as an old friend and even a big part of the reason he decide to abandon Dagda. Einion Logos is doing all he can to uphold the legacy of his predecessor, and is also noteworthy for defending against the Infernals without going out f his way to wage a crusade, and for opposing the increase in hostilities caused by unleashing the Mercurians. Einion and Cassiel seem to be kindred spirits, and I cannot think of anyone Cassiel would respect more. (Now that I think of it, Cassiel may very well have been the one who decided that the Elohim should be present at the Seven Pines for the signing of the Compact. Even though he could not bring himself to agree to the final terms, it was Cassiel who convinced Dagda to call for it. For all we know, it might even have been Immanuel's idea originally. Anyway, if the Elohim had not shown up there then Sucellus would not have tasked them with caring for his holy sites, and they would be nothing like they are today. Cassiel and the Elohim have close ties dating back long before Kylorin was even born.)

Ethne the White on the other hand, abandoned just about everything Cassiel admired about the Elohim. She was also originally chosen to be queen because of her practicality, a trait Cassiel doesn't really care for. I'm not sure if this is really worth a penalty, but he should at least have no bonus towards her.


Cassiel and Sabathiel are also known to have been good friends, and to respect each other even though Cassiel really doesn't like that Sabathiel still serves Junil and Sabathiel does not like that Cassiel abandoned his duty as archangel of force. I think a small bonus between them could be good, but nothing too big least it let the Bannor drag the Grigori into a crusade.



Although Sabathiel and Basium are both archangels leading militant, anti-demon civs, the scenarios seem to indicate that they don't get along. Capria specifically states "But beware for faithful Sabathiel told of stories of Basium, and he is unbound by mortal virtues." Sabathiel's character is defined most by Loyalty (I'd almost say hesed, but it may be best to save that as a term for only the perfect love characteristic of The One), and Basium has proven disloyal in the past. He abandoned his god, and didn't have nearly as respectable a reason as Cassiel did. Perhaps even worse, he has a deep hatred and jealousy for the current god of life, who should rightfully be his master now. He is not content to play the part set out for him, and is covetous of godhood. He constantly flaunts the rules in order to pursue what he considers a higher good. I'm not sure if Basium should have a penalty towards Sabathiel or if Capria should have a penalty towards Basium, but I don't think Sabathiel should like Basium very much.


Obviously, Basium, Hyborem, and Cassiel should all really dislike each other.


Kael has stated that Basium almost destroyed the Sidar, who survived only with help from his sister Gyra. I'm not sure if he really had something against them personally or if he just didn't like how they refused to join his crusade (although Kael seemed to imply the latter). As such, I'm not sure if Basium should have a malus towards Sandalphon. I'm also not quite sure when this happened. The scenarios do however state that the reason Sandalphon sent Rathaus to kill Ethne and trap her soul in the underworld was because she was going to release Basium. It may be that Basium had come earlier and almost wiped the Sidar out, and that Gyra was able to hold him back until the Mercurian Gate was built. In that case, the Sidar likely hold a huge grudge against Basium even if he is indifferent to the Sidar. They may have a grudge against Ethne too.


Perhaps a bonus between Ethne and Basium would be good, and a malus between Einion and Basium.

Ethne and Dain seem to get along well, and should perhaps have a small bonus between them. Valledia is described much less refined and has never particularly cared for the Elohim, so she could possibly have a tiny malus towards their leaders. Her crudeness however is described as being a boon in relations with the dwarves (she is a lot of fun during drinking games), so maybe she should have a small bonus towards them. If Einion ever figured out that Veledia was behind what happened to his wife, he would likely have a big malus towards Valedia (although he is likely the type that would forgive even her, at least if he thought she had/would change).


Although they both now work for the destruction of the world, I don't think Tebryn would like Hyborem very much. It is Hyborem who claimed his soul and took him to hell, which as we all know he really did not like, and who would likely take him back there if he displeases his new goddess. Perhaps Tebryn should have at least a small malus towards Hyborem.



I'm thinking Varn should have a major grudge against Lethe for taking his wife from him. I'm thinking at least -12. He hardly cares about the other demon lords, but he really wants her to pay.


I'm thinking Falamar should have a malus towards Perpentach while Perpentach has a slight bonus towards Falamar. This is basically just like the relation between Beeri and Perp, but shouldn't be as large since he wasn't there as long. Such a malus/bonus may be appropriate between Perp and all the contestants in The Momus.Just updated the post about those relations with your informations. Even if it happens rarely to have two same civs in the game, shouldn't Mahala and Charadon get a malus toward each other? They don't seem to get along well.
What could be Keelyn relationships?

So, after many tests, here are two screenies of demographics and religion screen after ~310 turns in a Noble game with AI tweaks:http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217290&stc=1&d=1244625025http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217291&stc=1&d=1244624485I'm not happy with the religion. AV has been founded too late to my taste (and not even by the Sheaim... they were in a not-so-good place), CoE hasn't (the Svart leader isn't inclined towards it) and Empy was late too (Malakim leader more Order than Empy). I believe I should reduce the spread rates of FoL and RoK. The Lanun should have founded OO I think if he had a better game... I think the Sheaim didn't found AV because, as it is now, they won't go after a religion if they already have a holy city and they did have the OO one... I believe AV is a bit off in the tech path... maybe...

Anyway, the rest seems good to me. Compare with Skyre Noktis and Turinturambar screens in their respective threads :)

Finally, my tweaks are worth it, I think. It's been a real PITA to do but I'm done for now. I playtested a noble game until turn 234 (where it crashes... :() and got an atypical religious distribution: first came OO, then CoE (by the same civ: Volanna of the Svarts), then the Order by Saralet... then FoL, then RoK, then Empy by Saralet :eek: She's pretty pious, isn't she? Volanna and Saralet have both big scores, big empires, etc. The others are doing great too, with scores near 1000 for most of them. Only 2 are a shame: Gosea is landlocked and so is Korrina. Pitiful! But this game is marvellous: OO is the most spread religion :crazyeye:

Anyway, these changes are definitely going into my modmod :)

By the way, I tweaked one or two things:

Lowered Pottery cost from 130 to 115, closer to Masonry.
Increased Tracking cost from 160 to 200, in order to be even with Mining (FoL and RoK enabling-techs).
Increased commerce given by Camp on Ivory from 1 to 2. It just felt wrong.

Sounds good. I installed the current version of your modmodmod and it looks cool. The only problem is that a lot of the diplomacy text is blank: Like if I make an offer to somebody who refuses it, there is no text about the refusal just blank text.

Yes, I'm aware of that... I overlooked the diplomacy file with .1 :mischief: I will fix that in .2 (without original text however... for now). Anyway, thanks for pointing that nonetheless, I will add it to my to-do list which hasn't any end now :lol:

I forgot to mention earlier that since Varn and Auric should probably have a relations boost with each other. Varn let Auric out of a prison when his brother Haerlond was going to have him and the other children traveling with him. Talia Gossam is the one who taught Auric to use magic. After Varn and Talia's betrayal of Haerlond was discovered, all 3 of them would have been killed had not Auric saved them by channeling the power of the Sun and breaking down the barrier separating Erebus from The Shadowed Vale. It was as a reward for serving truth by standing up to Haerlond to protect the falsely accused that Varn recieved his vision of Lugus and became his high priest.



It seems odd that you have Cassiel liking Basium any more than Hyborem. He constantly argues that there is no difference between them. Also, his dislike for Entropy mana would already make him like Hyborem less.


Since you went ahead and added Momus-based relations between Perp and Falamar, it seems odd that you didn't for Captain Ulandor and the others in that scenario.

I forgot to mention earlier that since Varn and Auric should probably have a relations boost with each other. Varn let Auric out of a prison when his brother Haerlond was going to have him and the other children traveling with him. Talia Gossam is the one who taught Auric to use magic. After Varn and Talia's betrayal of Haerlond was discovered, all 3 of them would have been killed had not Auric saved them by channeling the power of the Sun and breaking down the barrier separating Erebus from The Shadowed Vale. It was as a reward for serving truth by standing up to Haerlond to protect the falsely accused that Varn recieved his vision of Lugus and became his high priest.I didn't know that :eek: Interesting :)

It seems odd that you have Cassiel liking Basium any more than Hyborem. He constantly argues that there is no difference between them. Also, his dislike for Entropy mana would already make him like Hyborem less.Fair enough.


Since you went ahead and added Momus-based relations between Perp and Falamar, it seems odd that you didn't for Captain Ulandor and the others in that scenario.This is because I didn't played it yet :blush: I will check, if I remember well, we know all of them from start.

Same Ji game as the former post.

Turn 170, I either get another error popup or the game get stuck in between turn FOREVER.

I am sad this was a fun game. Early sorcery and Fellowship of leaves seems right for Ji. I picture her being very bugged by everyone and their scheming and deciding that if the clan of Ember is to survive it has to be on top and muscles alone won't be enough, the forces of Nature and Fire will help.

Edit: to make it clear I started having problems at the end of turn 169. I had to force quit the game. Reloaded and was able to get to turn 170 but this one I can't seem to get past.

I know what the bug is. If you kept your save, I can give you a hotfix to continue your game :)

Here it is, attached. Simply extract in your Orbis/ directory (or LeadersEnhanced/) and let it overwrite CvSpellInterface.py. It should do the trick even with your current game ;) It's a base Orbis bug, though. It should be fixed in the next patch as the issue arise in the Bug Thread.

About Ji: I didn't give her any weight toward religions but I think I'll give her some thing toward FoL. She's a pretty religious leader though. She needs weights so she can go towards religion with my tweaks... she won't be as religion-needy without weights.

Did a bit of tweak civics wise. Some compassion values revised and Grigori now start with Humanism. It's a bit powerful but I think they deserve it. I still have plans for a grigori civ trait.

I'm also adding in Wild Mana for Orbis from Valkrionn, plus Ice Node.

AI: Not perfect yet (won't be anyway), especially Khazad who can't build a settler if they haven't at least 149 gold per city...

@Opera - I don't know if you were ever planning on using the Battle Hardened trait - but I had another idea to add to it anyways - +50% production to military buildings - training yard, walls, archery range ect. and -35% commerce.

Not strictly speaking related to your modmod except that we were just talking about it, but I see another reason the Bannor are so gimpy most of the time. The flavourstart file has them preferring to start near copper, iron, and mithril which selects towards hilly terrain. And then it also selects towards incense even though the changelog says the incense preference was removed (it's still there at least in mine) which selects towards desert and plains.

So mostly they end up in hilly desert or plains without food resources. The AI is never going to succeed in those conditions; in my current game they got eliminated by the barbarians on about turn 500 (epic length) having spent the whole game in two pop 1 cities stuck up against the coastline. I don't even think they had fishing either.

@Opera - I don't know if you were ever planning on using the Battle Hardened trait - but I had another idea to add to it anyways - +50% production to military buildings - training yard, walls, archery range ect. and -35% commerce.Interesting. I liked the other idea to. Actually, I'm thinking of cutting out some of my new traits (the one with espionage mainly)... I'm still seeking good idea for new traits though and Battle Hardened seems interesting. Wonder how it would affect the AI though.

Not strictly speaking related to your modmod except that we were just talking about it, but I see another reason the Bannor are so gimpy most of the time. The flavourstart file has them preferring to start near copper, iron, and mithril which selects towards hilly terrain. And then it also selects towards incense even though the changelog says the incense preference was removed (it's still there at least in mine) which selects towards desert and plains.

So mostly they end up in hilly desert or plains without food resources. The AI is never going to succeed in those conditions; in my current game they got eliminated by the barbarians on about turn 500 (epic length) having spent the whole game in two pop 1 cities stuck up against the coastline. I don't even think they had fishing either.What was your mod? Orbis or LeadersEnhanced?

Anyway, I made no change yet in .1. All the AI changes will be in .2. In .2, if they start on coast and there's food on the coast, the very first thing the AI will research is Fishing. Then, a function run to check what tech it needs to use nearby resources. This makes the AI a bit stronger and a bit better on starts. I will check the flavour values too :)

For the Bannor, as I said somewhere else, the bad thing is that they beeline Bronze Working. That means they go -> Mining -> Bronze Working, which are two long techs to research and, above well, which means that they bypass such useful techs as Agriculture (?!!?!!?!!) and Fishing.

Another thing in my current settings (taken mostly from Turinturambar) is that the AI won't build settlers if: they haven't a pop 4 city and if they haven't Festivals (also if they haven't 149g/city for the Khazad). It may make sense for FfH (markets) but in Orbis Festivals aren't that crucial, so I will remove this check. The check for pop is quite good though.

A word on the Khazad even though you didn't mention them: their biggest problem is money. The AI isn't capable of gathering enough money to play them correctly. They have to have 298g to start building their first settler (149 for the capital, 149 for the future city). Isn't that totally crazy? No wonder the AI Khazad rarely get beyond two cities! The second problem is that they generally start in poor-food areas, which prevents them from getting past the 4-pop threshold in order to build a settler. So in my current testgames, the Khazad are still crappy.

About Ji: I didn't give her any weight toward religions but I think I'll give her some thing toward FoL. She's a pretty religious leader though. She needs weights so she can go towards religion with my tweaks... she won't be as religion-needy without weights.

Curently playing a grigori game with Zodalore and I have Ji as a neighbour. Playing at prince. I'm way on top score-wise. But Ji is a solid second, as founded ashen veil, made the Infernal Pact, as accumulated loads of wonders and she's currently spamming skeletons and mounting an army to squash me.

Interesting. I liked the other idea to. Actually, I'm thinking of cutting out some of my new traits (the one with espionage mainly)... I'm still seeking good idea for new traits though and Battle Hardened seems interesting. Wonder how it would affect the AI though.


Sorry I should have been more specific, I didn't mean to replace what was there but to add to it.

Battle Hardened - new units receive +5 experience and free medic promotion. -10% unit upgrade cost, +65% great general emergence, +40% production to military buildings. -85% Great person production -15% science -35% commerce

It seems like the AI would be able to manage this ok because there are other ways to gain Great people but this would seriously limit their emergence - it would be good for earlier game battle, but the AI would likely struggle late game because of the hit to research and commerce and may struggle to keep up. However, at the same time, they could produce very deadly armies especially if paired up with the raiders trait :)

Curently playing a grigori game with Zodalore and I have Ji as a neighbour. Playing at prince. I'm way on top score-wise. But Ji is a solid second, as founded ashen veil, made the Infernal Pact, as accumulated loads of wonders and she's currently spamming skeletons and mounting an army to squash me.

well then that leader is good, BTW what level you play?

Curently playing a grigori game with Zodalore and I have Ji as a neighbour. Playing at prince. I'm way on top score-wise. But Ji is a solid second, as founded ashen veil, made the Infernal Pact, as accumulated loads of wonders and she's currently spamming skeletons and mounting an army to squash me.Fun :) I hope that with my AI tweaks, you won't be way on top score-wise anymore ;)

Sorry I should have been more specific, I didn't mean to replace what was there but to add to it.

Battle Hardened - new units receive +5 experience and free medic promotion. -10% unit upgrade cost, +65% great general emergence, +40% production to military buildings. -85% Great person production -15% science -35% commerce

It seems like the AI would be able to manage this ok because there are other ways to gain Great people but this would seriously limit their emergence - it would be good for earlier game battle, but the AI would likely struggle late game because of the hit to research and commerce and may struggle to keep up. However, at the same time, they could produce very deadly armies especially if paired up with the raiders trait :)Okay then. Interesting trait... would fit Sirvagha very well :lol:

well then that leader is good, BTW what level you play?It was on Prince I think... Nonobots said it in his post :)

I will remove and tweak some traits. I figured out I didn't like many of them so I just cut out a large chunk of the new ones I added. Deceptive, Paranoid, Trader and Opportunistic are gone. Greedy, Scientific and Imperialistic have been tweaked and Peaceful has been added. You can check what they do here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123735&postcount=10) (no changes in the traits post yet, but there will be in a few minutes).

I also thought of civilization traits:

Balseraphs: +2:culture:/specialist;
Grigori: +33%:gp: and Every units starts with a random "civilization" promotion based on other civs in the game;
Khazad: a tweak to give them +100:gold: from start;


About the "civilization" promotions: these would be "Svartalfar citizen", "Amurites citizen" and so on with some benefits (minor ones but flavourful ones). Chances of getting them would depend on proximity (if doable), open borders, population of the other civ, unhappiness of the other civ...

The Diverse trait by Rystic will certainly go to the Kurios. I heard Valkrionn is planning on using it for the Barbarians...

I will remove and tweak some traits. I figured out I didn't like many of them so I just cut out a large chunk of the new ones I added. Deceptive, Paranoid, Trader and Opportunistic are gone.


Ouch. Rather radical! Care to share what you didn't like in those traits?

I liked the deceptive and paranoid traits. Well espionnage in general lacks punch but once it's boosted a bit those traits will be fun and efficient - the passive effect is nice to have early and those works well. I play a turtling Zodalore these days to keep an eye on the AI and see how bad/good he is doing. I tried Kish'rika for aggressive Luchuirps and the paranoid trait was not bad at all. Aggressive was problematic though - not much of a synergy there. I haven't played the others.

Well now you've removed traits but you haven't redistributed traits to the different leaders! (EDIT changelog show you started on that sorry)

You could merge deceptive and paranoïd and have at least one trait boosting espionage points.

Scheming:

+2 espionage points /city
-20% GPP
+15% Espionnage points

Then give it back to Zodalore and Kish'rika!

EDIT: thought of other names: Conniving, Deceptive, Sly, Treacherous. Still looking for a name that connotes both deceptiveness and paranoïa. I think Treacherous is nice.

Ouch. Rather radical! Care to share what you didn't like in those traits?Opportunistic: I don't really like it. It is interesting but... I don't know, it lacks something. I heard it is pretty useful though as +2:gold:/kill is good, especially early.

Trader: I don't really like it either. Well, I like it but... it lacks something too. I'm not convinced by it.

I liked the deceptive and paranoid traits. Well espionnage in general lacks punch but once it's boosted a bit those traits will be fun and efficient - the passive effect is nice to have early and those works well. I play a turtling Zodalore these days to keep an eye on the AI and see how bad/good he is doing. I tried Kish'rika for aggressive Luchuirps and the paranoid trait was not bad at all. Aggressive was problematic though - not much of a synergy there. I haven't played the others.I like those two (maybe one, as you suggest below, would be better) but, as you said, espionage lacks a bit. I think it's pretty flavourful for some leaders (Zodalore for example, I don't know what else to give her!) but I don't think it's really worth it. I mean, it's not that powerful to have espionage points, is it? Maybe they need tweaking. I'm open to suggestions, to make them more useful, more desireable than now.

Well now you've removed traits but you haven't redistributed traits to the different leaders! (EDIT changelog show you started on that sorry)That's okay :p

You could merge deceptive and paranoïd and have at least one trait boosting espionage points.

Scheming:

+2 espionage points /city
-20% GPP
+15% Espionnage points

Then give it back to Zodalore and Kish'rika!

EDIT: thought of other names: Conniving, Deceptive, Sly, Treacherous. Still looking for a name that connotes both deceptiveness and paranoïa. I think Treacherous is nice.I like your idea, even though it still lack usefulness, at least for me. Espionage is still pretty secondary so another bonus may be required. A bonus in line with espionage... A promotion perhaps?

I like "Sly" as name. I like the sound of it :)

Well while waiting for the espionage system to be reworked, just remove the negative from it:

+2 espionage points /city
+15% Espionage points (or maybe more like paranoïd, but 50% is a lot though)

And let it wait - it will just blossom when the espionage is revamped. That way it's at least useful without drawbacks.

Deceptive, Paranoid, Trader and Opportunistic are gone.

I agree with nonoboots... I liked those traits and think they could be tweaked instead of canned.

Paranoid and deceptive could become one trait like Nonoboots said. It will be awesome when espionage is revamped.

Trader (one of my fav new traits) it could add a +1 trade routes from merchant and great merchant. Or just boost its values - with great lighthouse and river ports and stuff this is a very cool trait.

I liked opportunistic because I hate wasting a promotion on bounty hunter. Maybe it could include double gold for pillaging and city capture/razing.

Feedback is definitely useful :lol: I like your ideas to tweak and not remove the traits. Some may be hard to do (trade routes aren't moddable in the trait files for example) but I like them. A bit of in-depth answers:

Opportunistic: The things you mention make me thinks about Raiders more than about Opportunistic... But the "more gold from cities" could be interesting and opportunistic enough :)

Trader: interesting... Although, making new trade routes/merchant would be actually a waste since trade routes are limited in number (8 iirc)... But I must fix the TXT_KEY first :mad:

Deceptive/Paranoid: I definitively adopt the merging thing :goodjob:

Any thoughts on Peaceful and the civ traits?

Zodalore Espionnage Report

There's no real reason behind my post - just wanna share. Of note is a bug with spying on the scions, some critics of Ji and Pagaldee's AI and some suggestions on relations between Outhe and Zodalore.

Opera if you prefer I can move this post to it's own thread.

Game:

Zodalore (Deceptive, Philosophical, minor)
Prince
Creation, standard size, quick
End of winter, Living world, all unique features, flavour start

AI:

Cith Mor
Ji
Outhe
Weevil & co.
Pagaldee
Gauthi

The beginning

Long story short: took Cith Mor capital, had a nice area around me so: REXed and took all the unclaimed territory - had to claim some from the animal but it wasn't that bad. Neighbours were Ji and Pagaldee. Lots of mana, lots of guild founded by me (GPP polution I don't mind!), engineers have been popping ressources (and liches and minotaurs) everywhere they could.

About guilds (a picture is worth a thousand words):
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/guilds.JPG

No war yet. Weevil vassalized Pagaldee without even fighting. Weevil and Ji are dying to get at each other's throat but They would have to go through me and they won't declare on me yet. (see the relation screen later on.)

Turn 233 report

Met everyone. For the last couple of turns I've been buying maps and boosting and spreading EP to have a good look at everyone. I will post a shot of their capitals and their units page. Note that I see only units in or around their cities but it gives a good idea of what they built.

If I continue this game I will aim at vassalizing Outhe and claiming a tower victory.

Here's the map:
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/map.JPG

I'm in the south-center. Ji is west of me with Hyborem far away behind her. Outhe is stuck on the north east peninsula, Gauthi has an island to himself, Pagalsee is in the middle with two lousy cities. Weevil is north-center.

Everyone is on the overcouncil but Outhe and Zodalore (me). They probably spend a lot of time complaining about me.

Everyone lost their minor traits but Outhe. Cith Mor lost all traits.

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/score.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/religions.JPG

I didn't found the cult of the dragon, it was in Acheron's city I took.

Outhe is the only good, I'm the only neutral - everyone else is EVIL. Strangely this game seems like a lovefest. I'm playing peacefully by design and the AI is doing it by "choice". Even though Ji hates Weevil (-11) Pagaldee (-6) and me (-4) she stays at peace with everyone. -5/-6 in between Outhe and Weevil and no declaration of war.

Is there a bug with the display of religions in the victory screen? I see Ashen either at 0 or 38% depedeing where I look.

Spoiler for diplomatic screens:
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/victory.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/relations.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/civics.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/science.JPG

Cith Mor

Typical early adventurer in your face. He was really close to my capital which makes for the best second city. Nough said.

Outhe (still Phi/Sci/min)

She's stuck on her peninsula with loads and loads of animals. Had a look at world builder it's really bad. I've been helping her survive by gifting her techs now and then and a +3 gold per turn. At first she didn't like me at all but this has helped a bit. It took an eternity and loads of buttering up to bring her to please. Still she's the only one who won't sell me her world map. I find it fun that Zodalore and her don't get along well. I wouldn't mind a bit of backstory (Zodalore abusing Outhe's goodwill and deceiving her or something) Outhe -2 to zodalore (you sly scoundrel!) and Zodalore -1 to Outhe (stop berating me!)

I think the Grigori's AI is tweaked to emphasize GPP. It seems that way from her civics choise. Well this make no sense in that situation. She probably sends her adventurers one by one getting them killed and getting her nowhere. She should at least see the scale of the problem and support her adventurers with loads of troops.

Can't really comment on her performance, any civ would be stunted there. This should be fixed. A human player will spam hunter and slowly grind himself a place - the AI should be trying that too - at the least, there are other solutions to this problem.

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/outhe-status.JPG

Spoiler for bigger screens:

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/outhe-home.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/outhe-units.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/outhe-problem.JPG


Weevil & co. (Agr, Cha, Rai, Foo)

The last civ I met. Doing very fine for a foolish leader. I think he rexed until Acheron stopped him. He vassalized Pagaldee and is getting all her mana plus one Ice mana from Ji - this is broken, Ji is furious toward him but is providing him mana.

He's definitely doing very fine. Should be more aggressive though.

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/weevil-status.JPG

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/weevil-units.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/weevil-home.JPG


Ji (Spi, Arc, Bar)

Doing fine but out of character. I thought she was second until I met Weevil. I've seen no adepts or mages, from what I can see I think she has knowledge of the Ether but stopped there on the arcane path. She's putting her spiritual trait to good use though. Infernal pact, Armageddon and hell terrain is not fit for her. Lots or wonder.

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/ji-status.JPG

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/ji-units.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/ji-home.JPG


Pagaldee (Phi, Spi)

Oh Pagaldee! Lame lame lame. She had no animal problem at all and has been very very shy settlement-wise. She has at least one beautif city to her east she never settled. She stopped at two cities and have been sitting on the wharf signing sad songs forever. She did found both FOL and OO. MAJOR happiness problem in capital - probably cause she's giving everything she has to Weevil.

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/pagaldee-status.JPG

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/pagaldee-units.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/pagaldee-home.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/pagaldee-settle.JPG


Gauthi (Phi, Ind)

Well well well: major bug here, I can't open his capital it crashes my game BAD. See this instead. He's been quiet on his island. It looks like he never built a pagan temple in his capital - at least it's the only area where the haunted lands haven't spread.

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/gauthi-bug.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/gauthi-status.JPG

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/gauthi-units.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/gauthi-home.JPG


Hyborem

Well just a quick note: he's isolated.

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/hyborem-status.JPG

http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/hyborem-units.JPG
http://nonobots.com/O-LE-Z/hyborem-home.JPG


Conclusions

This beta of Leaders Enhanced is already a lot of fun. Minor leader can get very powerful and the AI is handling them on par with major leader. Religious balance is better than in FFH but might need some tweaking still.

I think in Orbis in general AI is pretty good but sometimes get "stuck" like Pagaldee and Outhe here.

Very fun game. I might start another one on higher difficulty, aggressive AI and see how it goes.

Wow, impressive post! :eek:

It's strange that Palgadee was stuck like that. I wonder why... Anyway, I hope it will be better with the tweaks I made to the AI.

About Ji, I think I will give her weighting towards religions. As of now, she has nothing towards any religion so she find what she can (except good religions).

The Balseraphs are notoriously good. This is even scary!

About war-thing: the reason why they didn't declare war on each other is because of you. The AI need to have a bit of land in contact with another AI to declare war on this AI. This can be tweaked easily (Hyborem should need 0%). As for why noone declared against you: by chance, you were playing with "peaceful" leaders. Most of them (don't know about Weevil) aren't warmongers. Palgadee is very calm (see how many points you got from peace?) and Ji is very careful when it comes to war. She needs more power than you to declare.

I guess it would be good to compare this report with another from .2 (which is near-release right now).

Thanks for posting this, Nonobots. It feels all warm inside :)

Okay, some tweaks added in now (Sly trait, Peaceful trait, Ji's religious weights). Some more things to do and I will release!

I was thinking about changing Ji's evil for neutral...?

Okay, some tweaks added in now (Sly trait, Peaceful trait, Ji's religious weights). Some more things to do and I will release!

I was thinking about changing Ji's evil for neutral...?

Release is good, this will be compatible with Orbis 23d?

I like Ji evil, but wouldn't mind her as neutral.

Yep, 0.23d compatible! That's the main point of a release now. I planned on releasing later but I want everyone to be able to play with the last fixes of patch D.

Making Ji neutral would enable her the possibility of founding every religion she has positive weight for (FoL, Order, OO).

Decided to finally post here. In short - good work Opera! (but you already know it ;) )The Balseraphs are notoriously good. This is even scary
I get the same... If only their AI could be applied to other civs. I wonder f it has something to do with Balseraphs starting with agriculture...
Okay, some tweaks added in now (Sly trait, Peaceful trait, Ji's religious weights). Some more things to do and I will release!

I was thinking about changing Ji's evil for neutral...?
I was thinking of adding some diversity for clan. We have Hafgan, a typical orc pillager and warrior, and Jonas, armageddon orc on mission from his fallen goddes. But I think there is place for honorable orcs (i.e. in Warcraft 3) and savages, like human jungle cultures. I think first one could fit shelba and second one Ji. One of these (or both) could mean neutal alignment

I think there is a room for espionage centered trait, and scheming sounds ok. I am going to do big changes in espionage in patch e, so it migth be a good idea to wait a bit before tweaking it.

Decided to finally post here. In short - good work Opera! (but you already know it ;) )Thanks :)

I get the same... If only their AI could be applied to other civs. I wonder f it has something to do with Balseraphs starting with agriculture...I added a bit of code forcing the AI to research Agriculture as soon as it can... which means right off the start! (or after Fishing if it has to research Fishing!)

I was thinking of adding some diversity for clan. We have Hafgan, a typical orc pillager and warrior, and Jonas, armageddon orc on mission from his fallen goddes. But I think there is place for honorable orcs (i.e. in Warcraft 3) and savages, like human jungle cultures. I think first one could fit shelba and second one Ji. One of these (or both) could mean neutal alignmentWell, savages wouldn't necessarily be dishonorable... At least, for now, Ji is honorable and neutral :)

I think there is a room for espionage centered trait, and scheming sounds ok. I am going to do big changes in espionage in patch e, so it migth be a good idea to wait a bit before tweaking it.Great! I'm glad to hear that! :)

Version .2beta is up!! :D
Changelog in first post! (not complete though, as I did many tweaks concerning leaders' traits that I didn't add)

I like what I see in the new version.

Question: if I choose the Acknowledgment Basium and Hyborem can still enter or does that ensure it's gonna be a minor leader for those two?

I wanna do another spying game but I will enforce the compact if Hyborem or Basium would be the ones coming in.

Is there a conflict between End of Winter and the Wild mana options?

I get a python exception and the map isn't wintery at all when creating a game. See attached.

EDIT: My bad I messed up with my backup folders and installed on 23c. Probably the cause of all that. I have loads of TXT_WHATEVER showing up everywhere.

Okay then. Interesting trait... battle hardened would fit Sirvagha very well :lol:



It would fit Sirvagha! :D

I think it fits Mahon very well too and would be Raiders/Battle hardend :spear:

Is there a conflict between End of Winter and the Wild mana options?

I get a python exception and the map isn't wintery at all when creating a game. See attached.

EDIT: My bad I messed up with my backup folders and installed on 23c. Probably the cause of all that. I have loads of TXT_WHATEVER showing up everywhere.

I still have that problem - And I wasn't confused in my version it's the text for the version (on rollover to the flag up left) that is confused! it still says beta1 for orbis23c

Also more testing indicate it's the WILD_MANA that doesn't work. The rest is fine.

hope its odnt crush more the orbis game

Please follow installation guidelines located at Page 1

p your original Orbis folder (just copy-paste it in the Mods/ folder).

Tweaking

A thing you may want to tweak is the Sundered trait. In order to make it so the human isn't automatically converted to AV, you have to change two lines in CvEventManager.py (in Orbis/python/ after having extracted my files). Line 2407 and 2773, change True to False in: bHumanOK = True[/QUOTE]

hi can u tell me where i must change this one?? in orbis.xlsm ??? but where in event , diplomacy or what i dunno what to change ç__ç help plz

@Nonobots&Everyone: I forgot to mention that... Wild Mana is NOT working yet. So don't use the wild mana options! I'm sorry they're still here... I forgot to remove them from the DLL. I have some issues with Wild Mana (workers gaining promotions!) so I get rid of it. I will merge it soon, though. Maybe in a patch for .2. I think this is what is causing your troubles, Nonobots. Sorry for that!

-----------------------

@dan83m: just open Orbis/Assets/Python/CvEventManager and search for bHumanOK and change True to False. You have to do it two times :)

-----------------------

Edit: The Acknowledgement has no effect on the Mercs or Infernals yet :)

When you tried Wild Mana, did you hear the "resource discovered" sound on start?

OK, so, tested at home, End of Winter works. Wild Mana too but this is because I have the files...

Edit2: Did you use the Mana Guardians option? If so, the game certainly tried to add one of the three units added by Wild Mana... units I didn't add!

Version .2beta2 is up!! :D

I added a working Wild Mana with a bit of mana tweaks. I greatly advise you to play with all Wild Mana options on... At least for not being able to choose your mana based on their yields, some being very powerful. However, the AI might have issues coping with the guardians.

The next step for Wild Mana is to regulate mana spawning considering terrain. So that Ice won't spawn in any terrain but snow or tundra, for example.

The bug you had, Nonobots, was due to the game trying to add a unit I didn't add, subsequently stopping reading the EventManager file which generates End of Winter, so it's fixed now ;)

File re-uploaded at 1:43 pm, I forgot some changes and especially to change the version you see when hovering things in game. So if you don't see LeadersEnhanced .2beta2 for Orbis 0.23d, then you haven't got the good version ;)

Nice nice!

Thanks Opera will check all that probably tonight.

Some other tweaks (I really like that word!) added in for .3: the Ngomele, some resources changes, and things for the Leaders Relations. Check the "Next Changelog" section of the... huh, 8th post of the first page?

BTW, I'm open to suggestions for a gnoll minor leader. I want to add one but I'm uncertain about the picture...

I dont know if this fits FFH lore... but in many fantasy works, vampires and werewolves dislike each other. The vampires (calabim) use human blood to enhance themselves to give them power, while the werewolves (doviello) use animals as their way to become strong. I think their leaders could have a small negative like -1 You are a pompous ass. -1 You sleep with animals.

Well, Doviello aren't all werewolves and Calabim aren't "blood" vampires. I think they rip the soul of their victims. So, it doesn't really fit ;)

A picture is worth a thousand words :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217977&stc=1&d=1245198994

roflcoptor! Not really, but still! :lol:

......That's awesome enough that it should be a feature, not a bug. :lol:

Oops :lol:

I guess I'll have to check what unit is built before giving the promotion, then :lol:

It occurred to me last evening that this mod might be a good way of including the Kahdi from FF into Orbis. IIRC, the Kahdi were meant to have been an Amurites faction, so rather than making them a separate Civ, the same trick as was pulled with the Mazatl / Cualli can be used.

If their leader has a trait called Destiny (+25% production of religious building, Temples and Place give +1GPP (Prophet) per turn), any Kahdi buildings could be reliant on that trait, and any building which are deemed unnecessary could be precluded from that trait.

Interesting idea. I would have to play some Kahdi games first, though... I only remember that I hate Kahd's picture. So, if I ever do that, I will change it :p

Hello, I think something should be done with "Foolish" trait (-25% science), it's too much of a handicap. something like renaming it to "Excentric" and make it +50% civic upkeep but +10% science an culture or -25% gold income but +10% science and culture. Or just reduce the penalty to -5% science
"Greedy" trait is quite overpowered, what about 2gold/city or a penalty to health or happiness? Like -2 to health (lesser inversion in public services out of greediness) or -1 to health and happiness?

What about hated traits? Spiritual leaders would hate Scientific Leaders, Aggressive would hate Peaceful, Barbarian would hate philosophical, Imperialist would hate Expansive, Organized would hate Opportunistic, etc...

Some minor leaders have two traits aside from minor and some have only one trait, this puts some minor leaders at clear advantage over major leaders. What about giving all major leaders three traits and giving minor leaders two traits plus minor? Since there are more, it wouldn't be so repetitive. Otherwise, two traits for major leaders and one trait plus minor trait for minor leaders.

What about hated traits?


I would stick to things you can change during the course of the game to influence your relation with other leaders. And unless you're adaptive or minor, you can't really do much with traits.

Edit: I originally wondered about the effect of the bigger number of diplomatic tags, but after some thought, I think I like a lot that you're given many more options to affect your relations with other leaders.

Looking forward to trying this mod !

Cheers !

Why would Spiritual leader hate scientific? I can't see Varn Gossam hating a scientist just because he is a scientist.

Why would Organized leaders hate opportunistic ones? They would think that each others are eccentric, but that would be it.

Why would aggresive leaders hate peaceful ones? Would anyone really hate Einion Logos except for some random guys with horns on their head?

Imperialist and Expansive. I think Expansive means that the guy likes to expand. That is similiar to Imperialist as well. Except in method of how to do so. Why would they hate each other just because of that?

Barbarians would hate everyone dude :p

What about hated traits? Spiritual leaders would hate Scientific Leaders, Aggressive would hate Peaceful, Barbarian would hate philosophical, Imperialist would hate Expansive, Organized would hate Opportunistic, etc...I would stick to things you can change during the course of the game to influence your relation with other leaders. And unless you're adaptive or minor, you can't really do much with traits.What Colbert30 said. Even though it's an interesting idea, we can use the Leaders Relations system to create this kind of static malus/bonus.

Hello, I think something should be done with "Foolish" trait (-25% science), it's too much of a handicap. something like renaming it to "Excentric" and make it +50% civic upkeep but +10% science an culture or -25% gold income but +10% science and culture. Or just reduce the penalty to -5% scienceYes, maybe -25%:gold: and +25%:culture:... why not give, sometimes, an Eccentric promotion (unitclass dependant) that would give the unit some features its unitclass usually doesn't have? Like withdrawal for a Melee unit or terrain defense for mounted? A malus for balance, of course...

Some minor leaders have two traits aside from minor and some have only one trait, this puts some minor leaders at clear advantage over major leaders. What about giving all major leaders three traits and giving minor leaders two traits plus minor? Since there are more, it wouldn't be so repetitive. Otherwise, two traits for major leaders and one trait plus minor trait for minor leaders.I only recall a few minors with two traits excluding minor... Some traits are considered "weak", meaning that can come by two. Those are Magic Resistant, Ingenuity, Slaver, Centaur... and one other that is eluding me right now. But I think I let two traits to some minor leaders (without doubt the ones I prefer :lol:).

Edit: I originally wondered about the effect of the bigger number of diplomatic tags, but after some thought, I think I like a lot that you're given many more options to affect your relations with other leaders.

Looking forward to trying this mod !First, I'm glad to see it pleases you :)

Secondly, I saw your original comment. I also think I may want to add too much things (I may drop HatedReligion as it has few uses) but if I add them and that I feel (or you people) that they aren't that useful, I'll eventually cut them out :)

Barbarians would hate everyone dudeWell, Jonas doesn't hate everyone :p

Well, he still won't hesitate from raping/pillaging/killing/whatever :p (I think)

I only recall a few minors with two traits excluding minor... Some traits are considered "weak", meaning that can come by two. Those are Magic Resistant, Ingenuity, Slaver, Centaur... and one other that is eluding me right now. But I think I let two traits to some minor leaders (without doubt the ones I prefer ).
Kya Tiri and Rivanna have Arcane/Summoner; Braeden has Aggressive/Organized; Raitlor and Ilithiridan have only has one "weak" trait aside from Agnostic; Laggs Nyr has two "weak" traits; Verlain is Creative/Arcane. I skipped some of the leaders that I consider are fine.
I think this should be somehow normalized, some minor leaders are clearlly inferior, who would play as Raitlor or Ilithiridan if it's not for fun of selecting them because of the picture? On the other hand Kya, Rivanna and Braeden are clearly superior to all other leaders avaiable for their civilizations, they can have up to 4 traits.

Playing with the centaur, I think it's my first game ever with the Kuriotate :D

Quick question: in the doc (civpedia -> FFH concepts -> settlements) it says that the settlements can't construct anything, though it seems I can create lots of stuff no problem with them.

So what's the rule about settlements, and at what level did it change from FFH? Is it an Orbis thing, FF, Leaders enhanced, Flavourmod?

Thanks!

Was changed in Orbis. IIRC, they can build normal units/buildings but not heros/wonders.

Kya Tiri and Rivanna have Arcane/Summoner;Well, 1 weak (Arcane) + 1 strong is borderline. May change that but I don't plan it for now. Braeden has Aggressive/Organized;And Foolish! -25%:science: is a huge malus. Without two normal traits, Bareden would be useless. Weevil is in the same case, btw. Raitlor and Ilithiridan have only has one "weak" trait aside from Agnostic;Trader is a weak trait? Here, I would want to hear suggestions. I thought +15% for every yield from trade routes was useful... it isn't? Laggs Nyr has two "weak" traits;Well, 2 weaks are supposed to be equal to 1 normal. What do you think is wrong with Laggs' traits? Verlain is Creative/Arcane.As Tya Kiri and Rivanna: borderline. But I may change him... he already changed in personality and picture, so why not change him in traits...

But one note before I continue answering your post: if all Amurites have Arcane it's because it fits them so well. Because of this, I decided to create a CivTrait for them which will include some of the benefits of Arcane (but not exactly) so that not all Amurites leaders will have Arcane anymore. It was the same for Grigori and Philosophical but the spawning system will change so it won't matter anymore.
I think this should be somehow normalized, some minor leaders are clearlly inferior, who would play as Raitlor or Ilithiridan if it's not for fun of selecting them because of the picture? On the other hand Kya, Rivanna and Braeden are clearly superior to all other leaders avaiable for their civilizations, they can have up to 4 traits.Well, first, I guess it depends on how you play. But they may need a bit of normalization, yes. The issue here is which traits can be combined and which traits shouldn't be. IIRC, in vanilla Civ4, there's a certain combo of traits that isn't found in any leader because it's too powerful... Ahwaric initiated me to the distinction between "weak" traits (Arcane, Magic Resistant, Ingenuity, Slaver, Centaur) and normal traits (all others but Minor, Foolish and Weak), saying that (iirc) 2w = 1n and 1n+1w is fine. I'm fine with suggestions, even more so because I want to redo all the leaders' traits (including base leaders).

@Nonobots: Valkrionn answered you correctly :)

Quick question: in the doc (civpedia -> FFH concepts -> settlements) it says that the settlements can't construct anything, though it seems I can create lots of stuff no problem with them.

So what's the rule about settlements, and at what level did it change from FFH? Is it an Orbis thing, FF, Leaders enhanced, Flavourmod?
I have changed settlements a lot to make them different from Orbis implementation of forts and help the AI (it did not uderstand the concept)
For details, check Orbis concepts in Civilopedia.
Well, 1 weak (Arcane) + 1 strong is borderline. [...]

And Foolish! -25%:science: is a huge malus. Without two normal traits, Bareden would be useless. Weevil is in the same case, btw.

Ahwaric initiated me to the distinction between "weak" traits (Arcane, Magic Resistant, Ingenuity, Slaver, Centaur) and normal traits (all others but Minor, Foolish and Weak), saying that (iirc) 2w = 1n and 1n+1w is fine. I'm fine with suggestions, even more so because I want to redo all the leaders' traits (including base leaders).
The division in value of the traits is my concept, I have decided to divide traits into groups to balance minor leaders. Besides strong and weak traits, there are some flavour ones that I do not count into either of the groups. Agnostic, minor and partially tolerant fall into this group. And there are civtraits as well.
Also, there are negative traits that have to be counterweigthed with a strong one - so the foolish trait will stay as it is, but you get one extra positive trait for it. Braeden might not be a good researcher, but you should fear his army.
I have decided that one strong and one weak for a minor leader is a broderline, as you need to get rid of minor trait first and it takes a while. For flavour, I have decided to allow some weak/weak leaders - I think Laggs is fun and unique Lanun leader to play, but far from overpowered. Also, there is no way to get his combination of traits while replacing minor one.
Arcane and summoner are quite a powerfull combo, but very one-sided and both traits are weak when compared to most strong ones.

Thus said, I agree there is still a room for improvement for better flavour and balance.

I found Trader weak because you don't get any benefits from it until you have routes of +8 wealth which is nearly impossible, I think only Scions would be able de get there with their Partian Bazar.
If you make yields, food and wealth from trade recognize decimals it might be useful earlier.

I updated Orbis to 23d and now I am getting 5-minutes worth-of-hammering-on-the-mouse XML errors. When it finally starts, in the civilopedia the leaders that were added in 23d from LE are TEXT_KEYs and their graphics (and Capria's) are shades of pink. HELP ME!!!!!!!!!

Looks like this isnt updated to patch D? should say so in the first post.

I updated Orbis to 23d and now I am getting 5-minutes worth-of-hammering-on-the-mouse XML errors. When it finally starts, in the civilopedia the leaders that were added in 23d from LE are TEXT_KEYs and their graphics (and Capria's) are shades of pink. HELP ME!!!!!!!!!
Reinstall, check you've done everthing well, I'm playing Orbis 23d+this modmod and nothing wrong so far. Well, the avater of wrath is a pink sphere but whatever.

Another suggestion, I think Calabim need a Neutral Leader. In fact I think that it would be good to have a "black sheep" in most of civs which would have one step different alginment from their civ history. I wonder where will come some new art to the Calabim, Losha is just horribly ugly and so are Vampire Lords.

I updated Orbis to 23d and now I am getting 5-minutes worth-of-hammering-on-the-mouse XML errors. When it finally starts, in the civilopedia the leaders that were added in 23d from LE are TEXT_KEYs and their graphics (and Capria's) are shades of pink. HELP ME!!!!!!!!!How did you do that? Just installed the patch over 23c+LE? Anyway, when patching, you should then reinstall LE over Orbis again. At best, reinstall everything to be sure. LeadersEnhanced .2beta2 is compatible with .23d (it's stated in the 9th (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123734&postcount=9) post :p)

Another suggestion, I think Calabim need a Neutral Leader. In fact I think that it would be good to have a "black sheep" in most of civs which would have one step different alginment from their civ history. I wonder where will come some new art to the Calabim, Losha is just horribly ugly and so are Vampire Lords.I can do the black sheep thingie (even though it may just be Decius for the Calabim?). I actually already did it with Verlain (Evil instead of Neutral), Ji (Neutral instead of Evil), Hatheim (Neutral instead of Evil), Kish'rika (Neutral instead of Good), Gauthi (Evil instead of Neutral) and maybe some others I don't remember right now. As I said before, if you've an idea for a leader (being a picture or a personality), share it here :)

Okay, thanks Opera

Another suggestion, I think Calabim need a Neutral Leader. In fact I think that it would be good to have a "black sheep" in most of civs which would have one step different alginment from their civ history. I wonder where will come some new art to the Calabim, Losha is just horribly ugly and so are Vampire Lords.

I personally like making Thessa be a Ljosalfar and a Calabim leader, seeing how if she is defeated in the Svartalfar version of the Splintered Court scenario Alexis expresses interest in turning Thessa into a vampire, and will ally with you if you give her the elven archmage. (I'm surprised she doesn't appear leading the Calabim in any other scenario, as giving Amelanchier to Duin in Splintered Court will make him a Doviell leader in Mulcarn Reborn.)

Thessa has already shown herself willing to use dark magic she learned from Calabim tomes, even spells that consume the soul of an innocent victim (her husband on thier wedding night), although she has not yet done so to extend her life specifically but the life of forest and her people as a whole. I suspect that Alexis found out what magic Thessa used, and thinks this means that the elf knows their great secret. Alexis would probably give her just about anything she wants to insure that it is kept a secret, but would likely insist that she becomes a full fledged vampire and a vassal of the dark queen in order to give her another incentive to keep it. I suppose you could argue for keeping her Neutral instead of turning her evil when she becomes a vampire if it made clear that she and probably everyone she ever loves would have been fed upon if she refused to feed.


Arcane/Expansive is also much better trait combo for the Calabim than for the Ljosalfar, as it negates the health penalty of their Breeding Pit UB, helps them quickly grow large and populous farm cities, and means that their arcane units will qualify to become vampires much sooner.



Also, the Ljoalfar have the option to give Rivanna the Wraith Lord (whom I really think should be male given the title is "lord" and not "lady") to the Calabim when they defeat her. Of course, she would be just another evil vampire leader. (In my version I make her Organized/Summoner instead of just Organized, as being a "Wraith Lord" seems to indicate that (s)he excels at summoning wraiths. When Rivanna becomes a Calabim leader too, her vampires' ability to summon Spectres becomes much more impressive, even if the trait doesn't give vampires the summoner promotion and thus the spectres a free combat promotion and if they cannot get extension promotions to give their summons mobility. Organized also makes Governor's Manors cheaper. As a Svartalfar, Summoner means that she can use illusions quite effectively on the defense.)


Losha could use a new model, but it should still be based on the same art used in her popup. The current model was as good as could be expected with the skills the art team had at the time and with only the vanilla civ assassin graphics to base it on, but they have gotten much better since them.

Vampire Lords aren't ugly, they just look like normal Vampires with different coloring. Something more regal would be nice. In both cases, I suspect that the art team will take care of them for the main mod eventually.





Adding an Evil Bannor leader who is inclined towards the Council of Esus even though he claims to be a High Priest of Junil could be good. It is well known that the high priests became corrupt, lost their faith in Junil, started claiming that Sabathiel had demanded whatever they wanted done, and started hunting down anyone who had genuine faith in the god their church still claimed to serve, yet this so far isn't well represented in the game.

Edit: The only High Priest whose name we know is Shaddis, but he served at a time before Sabathiel left them and despite his failings he does not seem to have tried to corrupt his nation like his successors did.

While I don't have any reason to believe that she ever rose as far as to become a high priest, there is one Evil Bannor Confessor whose name we know: Maraphene. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6504921&postcount=68) That may be as close as we can get to a canonical leader of the Bannor who would be evil. (Hmm..I starting to wonder whether Maraphene might be the same woman as the diviner who set Rosier up to fall.)

MC ideas are good. I beleive the Calabim are awesome already, but there is always room for improvment.

Hey Opera, I was thinking of writing up some fluff stories or diplotext for some of the new leaders as a way of giving back to the awesome community projects here (as in, I have no coding skills but passable writing skills). I don't want to step on any toes, though -- which of the new leaders are in need of stories? I could whip up a sample or two for you and see what you think ...

Hey Opera, I was thinking of writing up some fluff stories or diplotext for some of the new leaders as a way of giving back to the awesome community projects here (as in, I have no coding skills but passable writing skills). I don't want to step on any toes, though -- which of the new leaders are in need of stories? I could whip up a sample or two for you and see what you think ...I would like that :) I listed in this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123817&postcount=11) the leaders who already have a backstory. All the other leaders I added are free of backstory for now. Which one are you interested in? :)

@MagisterCultuum: Very interesting post. I've yet to read the one you linked but yours gave me some ideas, thanks :goodjob:

Opera,

I followed your instructions regarding reinstaslling LE after patching, and now I get an error saying "Failed to Initialize Primary Control Theme." What did I screw up now?

Opera,

I followed your instructions regarding reinstaslling LE after patching, and now I get an error saying "Failed to Initialize Primary Control Theme." What did I screw up now?I suggest you to check this thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=251332), all the answers in it :)

I didn't do anything yet since I'm away from home. I'm not in the mood yet... and I can't add Jabie's leader (which I would have liked to add for .3) because I can't create .dds files here. I think I'll work on criterias to gains the new traits I added.

wow ... cool modmod :thumbsup:

i don't know if it's intention, but Hafgan [Clan of Embers] with greedy trait is really powerful: +3 :gold: in each city and double settler from warrens is really powerful - 9 cities (built, not captured) and running economy while others have 3-4 ... (well - limitation is keeping your score down to avoid war with barbarians :D (seriously, it's not so easy to keep it))
however if it's intention i have new favorite leader xD

It's not intended :lol:
I think I should go back to 1:mad:/per city or worse, like -1~2:science: (a bit like a market in FfH). I need something to balance it enough :)

Per Opera's suggestion, here's my story submission for Sirvagha. Feedback more than welcome!


They were two of his most expert scouts – men who’d ridden and crept, tracked and hunted their whole lives. Esprel, the elder, couldn’t have been a summer less than forty. It was that knowledge, rolling like an echo in the back of his head, that disturbed Cassiel. Something in the wideness of their eyes and in the violence of their gestures would have been more appropriate coming from beardless youths.
“At midnight and a bit, the moon came out from behind the clouds, and all up from the beastmen’s camp in the south woods came a howling and wailing such as I’ve never heard,” the first man was saying.
“And,” interjected the other, “it seemed to put the fear into the Amurites too, for we could hear screams and crying from within the city, and such a commotion on the walls as you’d have thought the enemy already inside.”
“Well, it went dark again for near an hour. Then the moon came out, suddenly – almost to surprise you – and the Doviello set up their howling again, but they’d come out in the darkness almost to the gate, with ladders, and before you could draw a bow they had the ladders against the wall and were rushing up like a flood. The defenders were down in a minute.”
Cassiel frowned and sat back in his chair, considering. Cevedes was a fortnight’s ride from his farthest outpost. But it was still too close to these animals.
The other scout cleared his throat. “For a moment we thought the Amurites would push the ladders back. Na, sir, they did – but a great wolfman at the top of the ladder leapt forward onto the wall, screaming and mad for blood. He had a sword with him, but he forgot drawing it, I think, in the bloodlust. Some of the archers shot him with their burning arrows but he ran on them and tore ‘em in pieces with his bare hands, and his armor and hood all aflame. They broke and ran, then.” There was fear in the scout’s voice – fear and awe.
“Do not dread these barbarians,” said Cassiel seriously. “Rage and bloodlust may produce such champions, but we have many of our own: men and women of honor and courage, not beasts.”
“Champion, sir? We saw him afterward in the city, among the beastmen. No champion he – he was their commander.”

Big nerf for greedy: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123735&postcount=10. Is this too much?

It's a bit harsh.. maybe combine opportunistic with it? Seems to fit.

The original Fall From Heaven (i.e. the one which is compatible with Civ 4) had a number of art/leaders which you may want to consider using (e.g. Chieftain Tragar for the Mazatl). It should be noted that the original game doesn't really reflect the history of Erebus and most of the descriptive text is thin on the ground, but using the diplomatic text strings may save you some work.

It's a bit harsh.. maybe combine opportunistic with it? Seems to fit.

I agree opportunistic needs to go somewhere :crazyeye:

I found Trader weak because you don't get any benefits from it until you have routes of +8 wealth which is nearly impossible, I think only Scions would be able de get there with their Partian Bazar.
If you make yields, food and wealth from trade recognize decimals it might be useful earlier.

Food, hammer and trade modifier using civic recognize decimals, but isn't shown on trade display. I use 15%:food: and 10%:hammers: in Enhance Coastal for Foreign civic. City with 4 trade route with each trade route give 2, will have 8 total. Then it will get additional 1 food. But if each trade route give 3 (usually foreign city), the total will be come 12. Then it get 1 food and 1 hammer. It still shown as 3, 3, 3, 3 on trade route display.

I think Trader trait use this formula too, is it ?

I reinstalled everything (FFH, Orbis, patches, LE and now I don't have an interface. It works fine with base FFH/the tweakmod, but not LE. WHAT NOW!!!!!!????!!!?!!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!?!!?!!?!!?

@blade117: I don't know now :confused: I myself did a new install on another computer recently and it work fine. I installed, FFH, patched to a, then installed Orbis, patched to d and then added the LE files in the Assets/ folder. Maybe you didn't do something? I don't know what may cause no interface :(

About Greedy/Opportunistic: It's a good idea to merge those two but it won't really balance Greedy, quite the opposite :lol:

@Jabie: I will look at this old mod :p

@rief_s: it still seems a bit weak... requiring coastal city and foreign trade to make it useful is a bit much for a trait... I have to find something, maybe increasing the bonus.

I had this "no interface" bug recently. I was playing with the options so it might be related to that - can't remember for sure what I was trying - I remember it was not advanced start. In that moment I had other stuff not working: no settlers on start and a specific error on start about tech (see attached). Can't provide a save game. I eventually quit, restarted and started back with my usual options (aggressive AI, All unique features, end of winter, wild mana, feral mana, mana guardians, the acknowledgment, compact enforced) and all was ok.

I reinstalled everything (FFH, Orbis, patches, LE and now I don't have an interface. It works fine with base FFH/the tweakmod, but not LE. WHAT NOW!!!!!!????!!!?!!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!!?!?!!?!!?!!?

Did you do the "Play Now" step after installing Orbis? You need to start a single player Play Now game to make sure the options defaults for Orbis are sound. Something related to the differences in FFH2 and Orbis options.

I hope you get it fixed and can get to playing this awesome modmodmod!

Was showing the mod to a friend yesterday (he's new to FFH) and we were playing a quick succession game to have a look at the priest line.

Turn 78, infinite end of turn woes. (see attached)

Thanksfor the help.

@Nonobots: The python exception seems to come from the function searching for units enabled by a technology... I don't really understand why it fails to run correctly, though.

I can't start your savegame. How did you install LE? In a new folder?
By the way, are the Scions in your game? Well, simpler: which civ is in your game?

@blade117: Did you succeed to start a game correctly? :)

No I did not. The game I started through play now did not have an interface either. Of course, I had placed the LE stuff into the assets folder, not the orbis folder, so that could be it, but then I put the LE stuff in the right place, and stil on interface.

This is strange.

Hum, I did some search. I see two things:

1) Check your CustomAssets folder (in YourDocuments/My Games/Beyond the Sword/) (I don't whether it's Documents or Files or something as I use a French version of Windows), it should be empty. Files in it may conflict.
2) Try launching the game while holding down the SHIFT key in order to clear the cache.

Keep us updated :)

IT LIVES!!!!!!!!! Clearing the cache worked. Thanks for all the help.:):)

Bloody cache! :lol:

Happy game! Don't hesitate to post your thoughts/suggestions about the mod ;)

And remember to kill some goddarn orcs for me!

It is already happening Seon, don't worry.

EDIT: Now all the units/improvements/resources are HUGE (3-4x bigger than normal, units defaulting to single-unit graphics.) What is going on here?

Maybe your graphic options? What are those?

---

I was thinking about something... I have 24 traits (including weak ones), so this mean I can do nearly as many combinations for minor leaders (since they only get one trait). For other leaders, I can have 276 combinations, which allow many more diversity. So I was thinking of giving all minor leaders 2 traits and all other leaders 3 traits. However, I fear that 3 traits is a bit much...

Everything on low except for all the other checkboxes off to the side of the graphic options screen. Also, in place of the FFH intro that cimes with the media pack, I have seen on several occasions the defeult Civ 4 intro movie play and I have seen one of the advisir screen pop up before the game begins.

:crazyeye:

This is kind of strange... I usually seen the original intro after the FfH intro when I start a game right after having played one et being gone back to the main menu.

When you play vanilla FfH, do you have the same issues?

If not, is someone else having them? :confused:

Never had any problems with any other mod/modmod other than this one. It is really weird.

@Nonobots:
I can't start your savegame. How did you install LE? In a new folder?
By the way, are the Scions in your game? Well, simpler: which civ is in your game?


I think I'm gonna reinstall, I'm getting a lot of quirks no one else is reporting (no settlers on start and lots of errors)

I might have messed something while browsing the python.

These errors are upsetting... I hope they aren't from the mod :(

I do not/never have had these problems with base Orbis, so that may unfortunetly be the case Opera

:crazyeye:

This is kind of strange... I usually seen the original intro after the FfH intro when I start a game right after having played one et being gone back to the main menu.

When you play vanilla FfH, do you have the same issues?

If not, is someone else having them? :confused:

I get that all the time, both with FfH and Rise of Darkness.

What is strange is that I didn't experiment those bugs myself... I will be more able to do debugging in three or four days when I will get back to my house.

I remember getting a "no settler on start" bug when I added the Ngomele. I forgot to make them LimitedSelection to 0... But I doubt it would be that.

Edit: BTW, is any of you updated to 3.19 and/or FfH 0.41b? This will cause big issues (well, I think nothing would start, but I'm not sure).

More background text, building on Talos' story arc. This time for Pelgadee...

It sounded like a simple job, but that was just because you couldn't see the tricky side. Smuggling holy texts to dissidents in a foreign land should have been a simple job too. Peldagee was always keen to spread the word, and the opportunity to earn a little money on the side was even better. Shame one of the metal-heads had invented a device to audit the trail of their currency. The tech-priests picked her up shortly afterwards.

The high priest, a brute of a thing (Pelgadee hesitated to call him a man), offered her a choice. She could work in the salt mines or she perform a small favour for him. Just like the metal-heads to offer a choice of no choice at all.

She was instructed to sell a golden hair to a young Grigori named Menec and tell him it came from the Tomb of Sucellus. It sounded like blasphemy, and she briefly thought about reconsidering, but she was keen to learn why two nations who had abandoned the gods were trying to pass off a fake relic for a real one.

Menec wasn't too difficult to fool. He could be a little hot-headed, but she found that if she broached the subject of his adventures, he quickly got caught up spinning his own glory. After that it was easy, an appreciative nod here, a flattering smile there... and just before dawn she slipped out of the bed and took a few Mechanos coins from his pouch. She made sure they got back to the metal-heads; their tracking devices would clearly show that she got them from Menec and they'd presume her mission had been a success.

Later on, she heard that Menec had chartered a ship from the Lljosfar to Mechania. Maybe, he really had recovered a relic from the Tomb of Sucellus. If so, Pelgadee knew that a holy relic now lay in the hands of heathens and would have to be liberated.

Now that sounded like a simple job.

Palgadee ought have an AI leaning towards FoL. She should get to get a -2 malus towards any agnostic nations. She should have a -6 relationship towards Talos ("You tried to get me to commit blasphemy"). Her relationship towards Menec ought to be -4 ("You possess a great treasure")

Talos gets a -3 malus towards Peldagee ("_ReLiGiOn UnNeCeSsArY iN mEcHaNiA")

Menec gets a +2 bonus towards Pelgadee ("We shared a night of passion")

Why a bonus towards FoL? This seems inappropriate, considering her picture (and her civilization).

I don't really like the fact that she's using her body to fool Menec but I think this is because I'm a bit naive :lol: It's an interesting story, though. At least, 3 leaders have a background, now (I think... Palgadee, Talos... You send me a Menec story too, didn't you?).

I really should work on the text displayed to explain a relation... I like yours :)

I have not upgraded to 3.19 yet.

@blade117: Well, this is very strange, then :crazyeye:

I updated the Fluff part (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123817&postcount=11) of the first posts with all the backstories (and forwardstories too :lol:) I already thought of. Keep in mind that all the stories take place in an Erebus after the FfH scenarios.

BTW, icarussc wrote that:They were two of his most expert scouts – men who’d ridden and crept, tracked and hunted their whole lives. Esprel, the elder, couldn’t have been a summer less than forty. It was that knowledge, rolling like an echo in the back of his head, that disturbed Cassiel. Something in the wideness of their eyes and in the violence of their gestures would have been more appropriate coming from beardless youths.
“At midnight and a bit, the moon came out from behind the clouds, and all up from the beastmen’s camp in the south woods came a howling and wailing such as I’ve never heard,” the first man was saying.
“And,” interjected the other, “it seemed to put the fear into the Amurites too, for we could hear screams and crying from within the city, and such a commotion on the walls as you’d have thought the enemy already inside.”
“Well, it went dark again for near an hour. Then the moon came out, suddenly – almost to surprise you – and the Doviello set up their howling again, but they’d come out in the darkness almost to the gate, with ladders, and before you could draw a bow they had the ladders against the wall and were rushing up like a flood. The defenders were down in a minute.”
Cassiel frowned and sat back in his chair, considering. Cevedes was a fortnight’s ride from his farthest outpost. But it was still too close to these animals.
The other scout cleared his throat. “For a moment we thought the Amurites would push the ladders back. Na, sir, they did – but a great wolfman at the top of the ladder leapt forward onto the wall, screaming and mad for blood. He had a sword with him, but he forgot drawing it, I think, in the bloodlust. Some of the archers shot him with their burning arrows but he ran on them and tore ‘em in pieces with his bare hands, and his armor and hood all aflame. They broke and ran, then.” There was fear in the scout’s voice – fear and awe.
“Do not dread these barbarians,” said Cassiel seriously. “Rage and bloodlust may produce such champions, but we have many of our own: men and women of honor and courage, not beasts.”
“Champion, sir? We saw him afterward in the city, among the beastmen. No champion he – he was their commander.” And we (Icarussc and I) were thinking what you think of it. He posted before but didn't get any answer.

Feel free to comment Jabie's work too :)