Noble Exercise Work Book I

This is an attempt at an idea that I have been kicking around for a while. The inspiration is a challenge series from long ago, where players were encouraged to play, and replay, a particular save to optimize for a particular result. Although the objectives in the original series were a little... extreme... for novice play, I think the fundamental approach has merit.

Initial Expansion with Hatshepsut.

Our opening exercise takes place on an Inland Sea map (ancient era, normal speed), with Hatshepsut as the leader of the Egyptians. In this exercise, we want to establish a simple base from which we can begin to develop a win. We'll define that base as achieving all of the following conditions:


Founding four cities (your capital plus three more cities)
Growing the four cities to size four
with at least four tile improvements (per city)
twenty hp worth of defenders (10 warriors, 7 archers, one tank, any combination) - total
construct a Library in the capital


The object of this exercise is to achieve this "victory condition" as quickly as possible. So your "score" is the turn on which you've achieved all of these.

http://www.whiterose.org/danil/civ4/newb1/start.jpg

THE SAVE (http://www.whiterose.org/danil/civ4/newb1/Newb-I.BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave)

Inland Sea is a map with ocean in the middle of a flat map, with no wrapping (the world is a square). Civilizations are distributed around the ring.

http://www.whiterose.org/danil/civ4/newb1/minimap.jpg

This start is non trivial - if you look very carefully at the edges of what is visible, you'll see hints of the shoreline. If that is the ocean above you, you probably don't want to settle in place - there are long term advantages that inland cities don't share with coastal cities; in particular, it is difficult to improve a water tile if you cannot build a boat or a lighthouse....

When you have doubts about the best initial location for your settler, moving your warrior/scout to get more food is wise.


http://www.whiterose.org/danil/civ4/newb1/birdseye.jpg

My initial play on this map was to move the warrior to the north east, revealing the fish, and moving the settler to the north. I lose a turn this way, but in the long run I get that back with the ability to build a light house, harbor, and so on.

If you moved the warrior SW instead, you would see the corn. Moving east, or SE of the corn are both interesting positions. My hunch is that even if you see the corn, you should move north for the cows.

You will probably want to travel east to settle your second city, and use the production there to help establish cities #3 and #4.

Advanced players looking at the map are noticing that there aren't very many happiness resources in the neighborhood. That's not critical for this challenge, but it is "a problem that needs to be solved" as we move from the opening to the mid game.

A lake with a lighthouse counts as a improvement ? ;)

VOU, I get 404 not found, when trying to dl the save.

VOU, I get 404 not found, when trying to dl the save.

Spelling error - fixed. Thank you.

Here's my first (actually seventh) try. The zip file has an autosave for every turn. This was with reloads, which I think are fine for this game.Turn 63 (1480 BC). My last three tries were 64, 64, 63, so that's as far as I want to take it tonight, but I don't think 63 will last long as the best date.

Haha! What a name! Obviously in practice it might not always be optimal to go this route with the restrictions in place (sometimes getting the 4 improvements slower is worth securing a blocking space for more eventual cities), but this should be a very good exercise for anyone trying to improve their early game expansion under general conditions. I'll have a go at it too, after MS and LHC.

Here's my first (actually seventh) try. The zip file has an autosave for every turn. This was with reloads, which I think are fine for this game.

Jet, if you still have it in you: I revised the conditions of contest to up the number of improvements (my fault - I thought that I had been more explicit about the number of improvements).

Is that four tile improvements or actual city improvements?

Is that four tile improvements or actual city improvements?

Thanks you - tile improvements.

Starting off, I moved my warrior a bit to see what was up. I decided to move my settler in order to get three food resources and settled.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff156/Ultimate_Waffle/Newb1-1.jpg

I started with Animal Husbandry, because of two resources that require it; and I start on a worker to get those improvements quickly. I finish Animal Husbandry and start on fishing for workboats. I need that food. I then finish Fishing and start on mining and a workboat (finished worker). I take Bronze Working after mining, for chopping and faster builds, of course. Afterwards, I start on Mysticism for required border pops in the future. That leads to sailing, so that I may build a lighthouse in order to get more out of my fish. I then put my capital on building Stoneheng, because it will give me free obelisks in each city; which is basically a free city improvement in all of my cities. I also begin Pottery, so that I may build granaries for faster city growth. Then I start on writing for that library. Here's the situation so far:

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff156/Ultimate_Waffle/Newb1-2.jpg

I finish Writing and go for Hunting and Archery, because I need those archers for my "hp". Things carry on for a while. At 400 B.C., I meet the requirements (assuming you didn't mean 20 hp worth of defenders per city).

Blast, posted too late. I got the four tile improvements long ago. Oh well.

This is an attempt at an idea that I have been kicking around for a while. The inspiration is a challenge series from long ago, where players were encouraged to play, and replay, a particular save to optimize for a particular result.

I tried this myself a while ago, but it didn't fly, nice to see another great mind out there :D I'm not a novice any more, but I'm signing up anyway.

Blast, posted too late. I got the four tile improvements long ago. Oh well.

My instinct is that you could probably improve with another run anyway.... At the very least, the ambiguity in the instructions took you on a very different path than the one I meant for you to travel.


Heliopolis would probably be a stronger city in the long term if you had settled it on the plains hill to the north east. It's current location is going to make taking advantage of the flood plains difficult.

I suspect that the faster times will show Memphis where you have Heliopolis...

Choosing to settle Ananda in Elephantine is... odd. Not wrong, necessarily, but

Thanks for the tips, I'll try again later today (Sunday) or Monday.

91 Turns, but I also built the cities out naturally and took quite a few turns to trek through the forest. Coulda shaved off 10 turns at least if I built more nuclear and skipped the graneries. I'll try again after I get some sleep.

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv105/Comrade-Deux/Workbook/Civ4ScreenShot0029.jpg

Well, i am not chopping genius clearly... Took me 62 turns...

* Founding four cities

If that cheat of using initial settler counts than yes....

* Growing the four cities to size four
Thebes is size five... sorry:rolleyes:
* with at least four tile improvements (per city)
let me think - Elephantine- pasture, far, cottagers 2x
Memphis - pasture, mine, cottages 2x
Heliopolis - pasture, mine, farm cottage
Thebes - farm, pasture, mine cotaggesx2. Slightly overcottaged...

* twenty hp worth of defenders (10 warriors, 7 archers, one tank, any combination) - total
12warriors including the one i started with. Damn overbuilt again...

* construct a Library in the capital
yes and granaries in other cities since these were growing to slowly...

Overall - teched Mining, BW, AH, Pottery, Writing.
Built four workers before first settler. Second city went settler first...
Popped hunting from hut but that did not really matter...
Don't know maybe should have built one more worker.... There was some forest standing in da end...

Could cut about turn with more micro...
Sorry for lack of pictures... Save bellow

3 tries, 81, 81 and 71 turns


I moved NE to the plains hill next to the fish. First attempt, made worker, then grew on hillpig, 2nd try made boat and grew on fish. Didn't seem to matter which one I did.

In the first and second tries I grew the capital to make a settler/worker pump, while in the third I WWS chopped, then built other settlers and workers at pop 2/3.

In the second and third I also founded the easiest food city (to the NW, with cow and clam) last to permitase of rapid growth and becaise the cow tile was in my capital influence and could be improved before the city was founded (and the boat built too).

I did build granaries, but did not notice increase in ability to grow my citys to pop4 quicker - Granary first looks like a myth to me, although I did no whipping.

Finally, I could get Stonehenge without any bad effects on my time to get all 4 cities to 4 pop. I built it in try 1 to avoid the need for monuments - imagine my surprise when the borders of my second city popped all by themselves before SH was finished :D

3 tries, 81, 81 and 71 turns


I did build granaries, but did not notice increase in ability to grow my citys to pop4 quicker - Granary first looks like a myth to me, although I did no whipping.


If you chop granary really aggresively - before city reaches first half of food it will save great ammounts of time....

Bit of clarification please:
Found 4 cities means 4 cities+capital=5 in total or 4 including capital?
4 tile improvements per city =16 or 20 improved tiles?
Tile improvements include farm, pasture, cottage, mine, fishing net but exclude roads?
What about city overlap?

Barbs and events can greatly skew the outcome of this game, considering it's a contest to get the best time in terms of what turn you clear the requirements. The person who wins this will not necessarily be the one who played the map optimally - merely settling in areas with immediate access to resources/chops and drawing lucky event or barb spawns will shave turns.

Warriors seem the most cost effective means here though.

Bit of clarification please:
Found 4 cities means 4 cities+capital=5 in total or 4 including capital?
4 tile improvements per city =16 or 20 improved tiles?
Tile improvements include farm, pasture, cottage, mine, fishing net but exclude roads?
What about city overlap?

I don't see a lot of beginners here :p

I guess an article with links to a series if this kind can be interesting though, to help beginners set foot in the game.
I guess he means 4 cities total =>16 improved tiles which are exactly what you said right above.
City overlap is no problem, but doesn't reduce the number of improved tiles needed.

I don't see a lot of beginners here :p

I guess an article with links to a series if this kind can be interesting though, to help beginners set foot in the game.
I guess he means 4 cities total =>16 improved tiles which are exactly what you said right above.
City overlap is no problem, but doesn't reduce the number of improved tiles needed.

So you cram some cities next to the capitol, make some cheap improvements, possibly tile-swap food from capital to grow (then give it back if needed).

You could clear the requirements w/o roads, and without actually having the food to work all 4 improved tiles in the new city (since it grew by borrowing food :lol:)!

How funny would it be to grow off the capitol's flood plains or livestock, but have 2 mines and 2 cottages in the new city and no ability to work them, but to win this challenge :p?

I get the feeling that holding off on military and taking the risk w/ barbs will lead to a faster time also.

It should be an interesting exercise but not likely to be one that you'd want to replicate typically ;).

I'll laugh when the person who should have won the challenge loses 5 warriors to the vedic aryans and doesn't have enough hammers in units :lol:.

So you cram some cities next to the capitol, make some cheap improvements, possibly tile-swap food from capital to grow (then give it back if needed).

You could clear the requirements w/o roads, and without actually having the food to work all 4 improved tiles in the new city (since it grew by borrowing food :lol:)!

How funny would it be to grow off the capitol's flood plains or livestock, but have 2 mines and 2 cottages in the new city and no ability to work them, but to win this challenge :p?

I get the feeling that holding off on military and taking the risk w/ barbs will lead to a faster time also.

It should be an interesting exercise but not likely to be one that you'd want to replicate typically ;).

I'll laugh when the person who should have won the challenge loses 5 warriors to the vedic aryans and doesn't have enough hammers in units :lol:.
alternatively you could build all your units to begin with, capture 3 AI cities already improved

turn 88 for me, I guess I'm a slow starter

alternatively you could build all your units to begin with, capture 3 AI cities already improved

turn 88 for me, I guess I'm a slow starter

Oooh good call, there's nothing saying we can't warrior rush.

Barbs and events can greatly skew the outcome of this game, considering it's a contest to get the best time in terms of what turn you clear the requirements. The person who wins this will not necessarily be the one who played the map optimally - merely settling in areas with immediate access to resources/chops and drawing lucky event or barb spawns will shave turns.

What on earth do you mean by that ?? :D

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216898&stc=1&d=1244386825

Barbs and events can greatly skew the outcome of this game, considering it's a contest to get the best time in terms of what turn you clear the requirements.

barbs not. It is noble afterall not immortal... have not seen non animal barbs before i finished. Two warriors for settler protection was just enough...

barbs not. It is noble afterall not immortal... have not seen non animal barbs before i finished. Two warriors for settler protection was just enough...

Someone might beat you by a turn by gambling w/ 0 warriors ;).

I don't think that the point of this exercise is to "win" an online leaderboard.

I don't think that the point of this exercise is to "win" an online leaderboard.

True, and I have no intention of actually using any of the methods I suggested, but it's fun to (unfairly) point out the limitations of the rules, and when going for them vs not might be practical.

Warrior rush cheesing aside, noble players should at least get an idea of how quickly one can possibly expand, and later figure out when it's good or not.

Someone might beat you by a turn by gambling w/ 0 warriors ;).

well, you have to build something while growing...

Oooh good call, there's nothing saying we can't warrior rush.

That much is true (hey, knock yourself out), but the conditions do say "founded", not captured.

Founding four cities means capital plus three more.

I had, in fact, considered specifying city locations. Events likely should have been turned off, to simplify the comparison. Not sure what to do about huts - I don't like the idea of removing them completely, because exploration is part of the game, and I'm not convinced that the AI knows that huts have been removed.

The AI doesn't act especially in favor of huts either. If they don't happen to gain LoS of them on auto explore they'll blow right by them.

Huts should def be off IMO so that people don't get writing, AH, or BW around 3500 BC :p.

Was a very fun challenge. You should do these more often. I only tried once but I doubt I could've done much better. I don't see how some people are getting 63 and stuff. Maybe I settled my capital wrong =/.

I beat the challenge on turn 80(875 BC). Save attached. Some tips on how to improve would be great.

Started out by settling 1N to grab the cows too. I was happy that I got fish too but I never improved them during the round(too busy pumping out settlers/warriors to worry about work boats):

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/27/12859984.jpg

Build order was: Worker->Warrior->Settler->Settler->Settler->Warrior(3 or 4 times)->Library. Started on a Granary afterwards.

Luckily I popped Mining from a hut:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8317/88358892.jpg

Tech order was AH->(popped mining)->(I don't remember that well from here xD)Pottery->BW->Fishing->Writing->Alphabet->Mathamatics.

Found my next 3 cities after a few turns:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4066/64775636.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5211/36783641.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8731/46640620.jpg

I built mostly workers and granaries in all of them(and then warriors in the second city, who was pumping them out faster than the capital). I had 3 workers out by the time my fourth was built and I got the improvements done as fast as I could.

Soon after I got the required military units:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2361/39736476.jpg

Then my library finished:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2772/79038023.jpg

After the improvements were done I told all my workers to build trade route(except for one, who built a mine) so I could get all the resources hooked, and it always looks so much better with roads connecting everything.

Finally on turn 80 the 4th city grew to size 4. I forgot to take a picture =/.

Was a very fun challenge. You should do these more often. I only tried once but I doubt I could've done much better. I don't see how some people are getting 63 and stuff. Maybe I settled my capital wrong =/.

My guess would be the number of trees you left standing...

Not sure what to do about huts - I don't like the idea of removing them completely, because exploration is part of the game, and I'm not convinced that the AI knows that huts have been removed.

There are so many artificial chinks in an exercise like this that I doubt that losing the huts would alter the game that much more, and it would smooth things out.

IMHO one of the characteristics of this kind of exercise should be focus, to allow the newbs to get to grips with the issue at hand with minimal distractions.

My guess would be the number of trees you left standing...I didn't have any time to chop them because I had to get 4 improvements per city. :P

this is exactly my kinda challenge, but i won't be able to play it for maybe a week or two, due to an accidental unistallation....

A middle of the road 67 turns for me (2nd attempt).

Wouls a specialist count as a citizen working an improved tile, even if there is only say three improved tiles in the BFC?

Wouls a specialist count as a citizen working an improved tile, even if there is only say three improved tiles in the BFC?

Good question. No.

man, I'm going crazy.
second attempt turn 84.
on the other hand, I'm leading in tech :(

1st attempt was 63 but I think I was trying to grow too much lol. I had 3 of my cities at size 5 with like 22 improvements total.

2nd attempt I focused more on the actual challenge and got it at Turn 61. I'm sure someone can still do better - I tried 1 more time after and got 61 again. So, at least it's not too embarrassing.


Edit: Added turn 61 screen shot


http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/Civ4ScreenShot0005-4.jpg

Turn 61 (1560BC) - settled on the plains hill, numerous tech pops (myst, AH, pottery). First attempts were in the low 70's, but after numerous tries this was my best. :)

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn76/huerfanista/NEWB1/Civ4ScreenShot0051.jpg

EDIT: Oops, looks like you changed the requirements to 4 tile improvements per city. :( Guess I'm not there yet.

@ Huerfanista

I only count 8 improvements? Each city needs to be working 4 improvements. Saves work nicely ^^.

Turn 60 (1600 BC).

Good question.
No it's not. "at least four tile improvements (per city)" specifies the number of improvements, not where they are.

Each city needs to be working 4 improvements.
No; the rules don't constrain what the population is doing.

Anyway, turn 59.

A good exercise. I had a somewhat similar idea from this topic about one very good player playing up to 1AD, displaying each turn the screenshots and detailing what he's done and why, so that newer players can get a better idea of the optimal timing. The idea would be to get them to vastly improve their openings, which is the toughest point. I might give this a shot tomorrow.

Try number 3 is turn 58 (no reloads as before).

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s305/cseanny/Civ4ScreenShot0003-2.jpg

However, my try number 4 is better and I'm saving it for when the time is right.

@ Jet

Common courtesy would be to "work" the tiles so people can "verify". Your save was a pain in the butt to figure out ;)

1 got it in 72 turns for the first try. i was late with my last city and my pasture got eaten by
locusts! will try to improve though

Try number 3 is turn 58 (no reloads as before).


never thought worker steal is worth it on noble....

I didn't have any time to chop them because I had to get 4 improvements per city. :P

Maybe you didn't build enough workers?

Your save was a pain in the butt to figure out
I don't understand why it would be.

1st try went 86 turns, 2nd try went 74. good exercise on getting cities out fast. once capital hit size 4 I went settler, settler, worker, worker, settler and then just warriors. When the other city to size 2 I built workers.. How do you get it down to the 60s?

Ask crusher... He seems to be good.

As said i built worker... Go size two, three more woprkers, setller.... Two more settlers. Two more workers. Chopped granaries in cities two-four... I also spread cities a bit further so lost turns on travelling...

Key for me was to chop like maniac...

I'll try this once my french exam is done :sad:

How do you get it down to the 60s?
My zip files have an autosave for every turn. You can see exactly what I did to get 59. Crusher1's 58 has a worker steal, which you can see in the statistics tab of F9 (4 workers, 3 built.) (In theory he could have gotten it from a hut - I think that's possible on Noble - but you can infer from the DOW on Stalin that it was probably a steal. ... also from the fact that it's not labeled by BUG like the other workers.)

Turn 57. :cool:

Waiting for Crusher1 to blow everyone's mind with his deus ex machina save.

I managed a turn 68 finish which is still ridiculous but a huge improvement for me

Hmm, tried 2 different placements, 74 turns both ways. That 4th city is my bane. I'm waiting on it while my original 3 are overkilling the warrior requirement. :S

I bet I could shave 5 turns just by swapping a worker and settler somewhere in my build order, but I always think I need the workers.

An opener question:
Did/When did you go for Fishing? I tried for a workboat early, then AH to give worker something to do, then Mining, BW for chopping. But it was making my 2nd city fairly late. I'm thinking maybe have gone for chopping sooner with all those trees?

Does it count if one of your cities was obtained via conquest?

Does it count if one of your cities was obtained via conquest?

Founded requires training a settler - see previous response.

Are folks observing any dramatic difference between AH first and Mining -> BW?

Played this several times, curious about the differences, and wishing I'd taken better notes.

My best efforts went Mining -> BW first, then back to AH. (It seems all about the chop.)

However, the variance between the different openings:

Warrior -> Grow to 2 -> Worker
Worker -> Grow to 2/3 -> More Worker/Settlers

...With different combinations of the tech path...

Etc, doesn't seem to matter _much_. Everything was in the 60's for me, earliest at 64.

I think the trick is settling your last city by the corn (already farmed) so it gets to 4 pop faster.


I'm curious what the people in the 50's were doing, probably open their saves next.

I'm curious what the people in the 50's were doing, probably open their saves next.

My Tech Path was AH, Min, BW. My build order was worker, warrior/s to 3 pop while improving the Corn, Cow, then either a mine or food plain. As soon as you hit 3 pop you make 2 more workers which should take 4 turns each, plus you expedite them by chopping.

Your first warrior steals a worker from Stalin to the west.

After you finished your last worker (3 total) you immediately begin chopping out 3 settlers with your 3 workers then found your cities in such a manner that you can swap/share food as needed and finish the requirements.

You can almost always guarantee 58-59 and with some luck you can get lower, I.E. random events creating pastures or farms, etc and get below 56.

What I've found out.
- you can steal workers from both Gilgamesh (east) and Stalin (west) by building an additional warrior early on. I recommend growing to size 2 while building the warrior (takes the same number of turns as growing) and then 1-pop whipping your next worker out. You can make peace with both AIs only 6ish turns after declaring (gotta love noble) so defenses are not a problem as long as there is nothing of theirs in sight.
- you can steal multiple workers from stalin by making peace with him and attacking him again. This can be done within the relevant time-frame. You can save turns on the escort back home by fogbusting with another warrior and letting the worker move through the safe revealed territory.
- first thing to focus on is getting your cities out at as early a date as possible. Next is to make sure the city that is most behind in growth gets the best food tiles to work so it can keep up with the rest. This means that the best city to settle last is the one at the spot south-west where it can work both the capital's corn tile and two floodplains.
- the rest is a matter of spamming improvement tiles. Cottages are the least time-costly to build, so those are recommended.
- the 10 warriors tend to be the least problematic goal, just make everything that is growing build a warrior.

Your first worker steals a worker from Stalin to the west.

I wish MY workers could do that! Overall the post makes sense though ;).

Are folks observing any dramatic difference between AH first and Mining -> BW?

i've made retry i saw some diferenece by
mining first and when popping AH from hut. Upper [visible] hut might give AH, iirc, it would be like straight way of warrior+2turns...

This looked like fun so thought I'd give it a go. Noble player at the moment, I tend to win my games, but after this I'm thinking it's more through blind luck than any understanding of the game.

Try 1 -> Turn 93, wasted time building Stonehenge in Cap, got Fishing from goody hut popped by capital expanding, settled it 1N, wasted free fishing by forgetting to build a work boat after getting all excited about it. Why so bad!? Only noticed at the end when I was checking all was in order >.>

Try 2 -> Turn 95, didn't buld a wonder, got Fishing and BW from huts, decided to do the same thing I did before but better! Somehow ended up doing worse despite not building a wonder.

Try 3 -> HUTS OF EVIL. 2 Huts, both hostile, lost 2 warriors, lost another warrior to bears. Somehow pulled this all back to finish on turn 91.

Try 4 -> Useless map from NW hut, Fishing from SW hut popped by Cap settled 1N again, I don't know why I keep doing this I'm not going to get better if I don't change anything >.> I chose a different order to settle in and manage to finish on turn 84, an improvement indeed >.>

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220361&d=1247024142
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220362&d=1247024142

My first 3 tries I settled SW city (Elephantine on SS), E city (Memphis), then SE city (Heliopolis) but was always sat around waiting fe SE city to increase pop while everything else was fine. I'd actually have finished this on turn 79 if I hadn't been so insistent on hooking my resources up, I forgot the Cottage in Elephantine so had to rush a worker back there to finish it up which cost me a number of turns >.> I think if I do it again I can shave a fair number of turns off if I ignore what seems right in my head but doesn't suit this "mini-game", building cities for the future, hooking up resources >.> It was nice to kind of force myself to expand quickly though, it's something I'm usually really bad at, hence turn 84 when other's are hitting 50's-60's I guess ;< I usally only build a city or two after my capital and then amass an army to go looking for other people's cities, lol.


Hope this isn't too much of a necro bump.

Hope this isn't too much of a necro bump.

This forum is for everyone from every walk of life. Screw them if they don't like it =D. You'll find some active users have some pretty elitist attitudes, but what can you do!? I just spit it back in their face and drive on, drive on baby!

Welcome to the forums and good luck! I hope you learn some good stuff my friend! If you need any help/got questions PM - I'm here to help those who genuinely need/want it! Plus I like to pick fights with the elitist! Muahahahahaha!

How fortuitous that someone else posted who just recently played the game! I just did it myself tonight.

Unfortunately somewhere along the line I forgot about getting the cities to size four. :mad: So I went back a couple hundred years with a save and managed to meet all the conditions by 950 BC--turn 77.

I saw that others overlapped food resources. I don't know why that didn't occur to me-- it may have been partly because of my overlooking the requirement of getting all the cities to size four, and partly because I was trying to simulate a somewhat normal expansion (though there were differences from my normal play; for example, I didn't scout much to the west until the end, just kept pushing east pretty much). In keeping with the "normal expansion," I built improvements that I would have actually used (the exception being that I did build a plains cottage on the last turn, an improvement I normally wouldn't build until much later, because I noticed I had left Heliopolis one tile improvement short).

By the way I counted a fishing boat as an improvement, which seems reasonable to me as it probably required more investment than a land tile. Seriously, I had seven workers!

I got lucky with hut pops: mysticism in 3840, mining in 3400, BW in 3160 :crazyeye:. One of those I was teching at the time, I think it was BW. I researched AH, fishing, pottery, writing, math, and was working on currency at the end. I don't recall seeing very many people teching fishing, so that may not have been optimal for this kind of race.

Well, I like the thrill of an undiscovered map more than replaying a game, so I don't know if I'll do it again. I feel good about finishing on turn 77 given that I didn't think to overlap the big food resources. Of course it wasn't quite the speedy finish that others achieved with more overlap.

Screenie:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220367&stc=1&d=1247030077


Edit: my build order in the capital was worker>work boat>warrior>worker, then I think settler>warrior>settler>settler>couple of warriors>more workers.

Thank you for putting this series together VoU! :goodjob:

This looked like fun so thought I'd give it a go. Noble player at the moment, I tend to win my games, but after this I'm thinking it's more through blind luck than any understanding of the game.

Try 1 -> Turn 93, wasted time building Stonehenge in Cap, got Fishing from goody hut popped by capital expanding, settled it 1N, wasted free fishing by forgetting to build a work boat after getting all excited about it. Why so bad!? Only noticed at the end when I was checking all was in order >.>

Try 2 -> Turn 95, didn't buld a wonder, got Fishing and BW from huts, decided to do the same thing I did before but better! Somehow ended up doing worse despite not building a wonder.

Try 3 -> HUTS OF EVIL. 2 Huts, both hostile, lost 2 warriors, lost another warrior to bears. Somehow pulled this all back to finish on turn 91.

Try 4 -> Useless map from NW hut, Fishing from SW hut popped by Cap settled 1N again, I don't know why I keep doing this I'm not going to get better if I don't change anything >.> I chose a different order to settle in and manage to finish on turn 84, an improvement indeed >.>

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220361&d=1247024142
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220362&d=1247024142

My first 3 tries I settled SW city (Elephantine on SS), E city (Memphis), then SE city (Heliopolis) but was always sat around waiting fe SE city to increase pop while everything else was fine. I'd actually have finished this on turn 79 if I hadn't been so insistent on hooking my resources up, I forgot the Cottage in Elephantine so had to rush a worker back there to finish it up which cost me a number of turns >.> I think if I do it again I can shave a fair number of turns off if I ignore what seems right in my head but doesn't suit this "mini-game", building cities for the future, hooking up resources >.> It was nice to kind of force myself to expand quickly though, it's something I'm usually really bad at, hence turn 84 when other's are hitting 50's-60's I guess ;< I usally only build a city or two after my capital and then amass an army to go looking for other people's cities, lol.


Hope this isn't too much of a necro bump.

can't say I'm the best to help in such things, since I'm mostly a slow starter, however, you don't seem to use the most efficient kickstart around : chopping
Try it this way : build worker>warrior>worker>settler>settler>settler>library in the capital, warriors only in your other cities.
tech to BW ASAP, then pottery (include fishing somewhere)

This looked like fun so thought I'd give it a go. Noble player at the moment, I tend to win my games, but after this I'm thinking it's more through blind luck than any understanding of the game.

From looking at the screen capture you provided, you might want to experiment with exploiting your trees....

At what player type is are these posts aiming for ?

Monarch, Deity+ or people trying to master noble ?


I am trying to master noble and i would see lots of stuff that should be mentioned in detail:


First City
http://wow.shadowbyte.net/w/upload/c/c3/Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
I think 90% of starting players would press 'b' and settle in red - i did myself before reading [1]. I did settle at blue for 2x flood plains - on a hill for +1 :hammers:, fish, sheep. Settling green wasn't that obvious to me.

Tech Paths
Interesting Technologies:

Animal Husbandry (AH, Pens)
Bronze Working (BW, slavery, Forrest removal),
fishing (work boats)
The Wheel (Roads)

By now it seems that BW first beats all other tactics.

City Building Path
Is it always 'worker first' ? (independent of speed / difficulty)
At noble a warrior rush for a non-aggressive civ works. (defeating the task of settling 4x cities)


Worker Tasks
In the first cities you do not think about lumber mills and similar stuff but chop what you can get hold of ? How about keeping 'x' So the forests got a chance to regrow?

Differences to a 'real' game
Where would you make a difference to a normal game ?

Ressources:
[1]The Complete Guide to Terrain, Improvements, Resources, and City Placement (v.2) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144029)

At what player type is are these posts aiming for ?

Monarch, Deity+ or people trying to master noble ?

Good quest nOOby!;) Actually both, a lot of monarch+ players do these for fun while
noble/prince players trying to get a better grasp at that level and this SG was played on Monarch.


I am trying to master noble and i would see lots of stuff that should be mentioned in detail:


First City
(pic removed for reply)
I think 90% of starting players would press 'b' and settle in red - i did myself before reading [1]. I did settle at blue for 2x flood plains - on a hill for +1 :hammers:, fish, sheep. Settling green wasn't that obvious to me.

Settling 1N will get you fish/cow/sheep 5hils/2floodplains which is a really good start and really good hybrid Bureaucracy capitol. Post a save and I'll shadow game for a bit.

Tech Paths
Interesting Technologies:

Animal Husbandry (AH, Pens)
Bronze Working (BW, slavery, Forrest removal),
fishing (work boats)
The Wheel (Roads)

By now it seems that BW first beats all other tactics.

Your tech path should go fishing>AH>mining>BW> by that time you should be able to start on your first settler at what's called your :) cap. Let the city grow until you reach your :) max, which on noble is usually 5, then start pumping out settlers

City Building Path
Is it always 'worker first' ? (independent of speed / difficulty)
At noble a warrior rush for a non-aggressive civ works. (defeating the task of settling 4x cities)

Most cases yes, always start worker>warriors. But since you'll be on the coast I would start warrior while growing and waiting for fishing to come in, then switch to a workboat while working the 3:hammers: hill to speed it up. Build you fish and work it until you get to population 2, warrior should be done by then, then start your worker so once AH comes in your worker will have something to do, you don't want workers taking siestas!

Worker Tasks
In the first cities you do not think about lumber mills and similar stuff but chop what you can get hold of ? How about keeping 'x' So the forests got a chance to regrow?


Don't chop everything in site, unless your building a wonder like the Pyramids, usually going plainshill then hills as you can directly build a mine on them. Don't forget that forests give :health: in your cities and have a chance for other tiles to grow forests.

Differences to a 'real' game
Where would you make a difference to a normal game ?

Ressources:
[1]The Complete Guide to Terrain, Improvements, Resources, and City Placement (v.2) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144029)

Umm very few, you don't have to wait for others to play, but you don't have the others input on your moves. I was a straight noble player for about 8 months, only winning a few by sloppy play, even though I was reading all the guides. Until I started playing SG games here, then my offline games jumped to prince/monarch in a short time. Goto the
Civ 4 Sucession Game Registration Thread! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=139127) or try to find one already going and ask to jump in. Reading/following these games will help, downloading the saves and playing along following their movements will help too.

Best of is to have FUN, if it becomes not fun take a break then come back to it. I've done that too. Good luck!:goodjob:

At what player type is are these posts aiming for ?

Monarch, Deity+ or people trying to master noble ?

I'd guess to anyone willing to play. In theory high level player games should show few things for real noble players


I think 90% of starting players would press 'b' and settle in

You are mixing normal game [when you want to conquer, dominate, manipulate diplo] and rapid start like this.
In situation like this settling on plainhill gives two hammers to city center, which gives first worker two turns faster [including wasted turn on moving settler]. That means your first worker chops out second worker faster and so on...
That is more or less called snowball...


. I did settle at blue for 2x flood plains - on a hill for +1 :hammers:, fish, sheep. Settling green wasn't that obvious to me.


I do not recall scouting info on turn one, but if needed pick i'd probably go for spot between green and and blue. Cows should compensate for lack of extra hammer in a long run. Of course one could claim that extahammer would gives faster workboat, which leads to faster second settler... Snowball again.

Settling on sheep is waste of good tile, but since we were not planning to play anywhere close to AD... In other words for this challenge long term is less than short time...



Interesting Technologies:

Per normal game i would go AH into BW. IIRc, even in this time BW first was not giving that much of margin.
I've read comments that improve+chop and plain chop equalizes at about turn 40, while improvements let you save some forest. Might be true

Fishing time depends on where you place city and your plans.


Is it always 'worker first' ? (independent of speed / difficulty)
At noble a warrior rush for a non-aggressive civ works. (defeating the task of settling 4x cities)

Worker first unless you:
-build workboat first
-warrior/quecha rush
-have nothing to do for him [heavily forested start with few animal food resources while having something like mysticism and fishing].



How about keeping 'x' So the forests got a chance to regrow?

Unless you play marathon regrowth is not worth effort.


Where would you make a difference to a normal game ?


From the settling point. Especially picking another locations for other cities and doing lot of more roading.
I actually like my effort as it least has more or less natural city placement comparing to some other high packed clusters.

From looking at the screen capture you provided, you might want to experiment with exploiting your trees....

Had another couple of goes today keeping the same city sites and seeing how many turns I could shave off with more aggressive chopping, first go I got down to 81, but I was still waiting too long on settlers and building too many Workers first. Had another go limiting myself to only 4 workers.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220390&stc=1&d=1247066034

While it's certainly not world beating I am pretty happy taking it down to 70 turns, with Memphis growing to 4 pop and the last improvement coming at the same time.

seems you got most of the trick, however if I'm not miscounting, you've got 2 size 5 cities. Means suboptimal placement for this "special run".
The best runs have more overlapping = shared food for growth+less travel turns.

First thanks a lot VoU for these lessons and everyone for posting advices. As a will go through "NEWB2: Population" tonight, i hope there will be "5x5x5" comming out soon.

I am brand new to the game, after two chieftan victories and Sulla's great guide, i moved to noble and found this thread. Noble seems easy as well, but it is a complete piece of cake after practise with early expansion through chopping in this lesson.

First try in upper 80's, second 74, third 62. During these tries i realized that my warrior has two promotions when reaching Stalin all the time. So i thought what is the percentage of warrior with city raider II agianst one in Moscow. I tried and probably a novice luck helped me to win 21.3% odds for the first try. So Moscow was mine with one worker at 3040 B.C. So it produced third Settler and prepared the site for new city to the NE with rice and two flood plains. So i hope you do not mind i have 5 cities as 4 have to be founded ;) Goal reached after 56 turns and i am sure that players like Crusher1 would go even to 50-52 with not only worker steal but the whole city steal.


http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/files/1/6/7/8/1/6/civ56.jpg

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/files/1/6/7/8/1/6/civ56ma.jpg