In this topic, there will be updnes materials for these countries: Kyivan Rus and their neighbours. Accumulated information on this topic from the site of russian-speaking players - civfanatics.ru, it will be also uploaded here and updated.

I will start to add the cities of Kyivan Rus to CityNameHelper_v12.

Information about Kyivan Rus ("Kyiv" in game).

Dynamic names:

... (will be later)

Cities of Kyivan Rus:

Kyivan names (on "kyivan" (ukrainian) language):

Bilgorod (980), Biloozero (862 ?), Vasylkiv (988), Vyshgorod (946), Ovruch (977), Izborsk (862), Korosten (945), Kyiv (880 ?), Ladoga (862), Liubech (882), Murom (862), Novgorod (859), Peresichen (922), Peremyshl (980), Pereyaslavl (907), Polotsk (862), Pskov (903), Roden (980 ?), Rostov (862), Smolensk (863 ?), Turiv (980), Cherven (981), Chernihiv (907), Protolche (Zaporizhzhya) (end of 10 century, 1103 ?)

Moskowian names: (on "moscowian" (russian) language)

Bilgorod - Belgorod,
Biloozero - Beloozero,
Vasylkiv - Vasilev,
Ovruch - Vruchy
Korosten - Iskorosten,
Kyiv - Kiev,
Peresichen - Peresechen,
Turiv - Turov,
Chernihiv - Chernigov

Poland names:

Peremyshl - Przemyśl

Swedish names:

Ladoga - Aldeigjuborg

Deutch names:

Peremyshl - Prömsel

Notes:
? - inexact dates
(...) - the dates of foundation

Cities of the neighbours of Kyivan Rus:
... (will be later)

Map terrain:
... (will be later)

CityNameHelper_v12 cities updates:
... (will be later)

CivFanatics.ru's user papa1 has edited north-east part of map in RFCEurope.CivBeyondSwordWBSave

He added and improved river system and relief (more hills and plains). Also he placed some labels by realistic historical cities of Kievan Rus.

Now I'm (CivFanatics.ru's user White Hawk) working about Moskovian cities placing on every tiles in area from Moscow_settlermap.png.

We have some questions now:
1. How about our map (original papa1's map attached) - can RFCE-Team use our map in next versions of Mod?
2. Geographically, on the current map there is no place for Astrakhan and Kazan too :( - First Moskovian UFV has no reason. Astrakhan and Kazan are the cities, which placed "upper" on map than Caspian Sea, not Caucasus or Black Sea.
Can RFCE-Team expand map to the east (5-7 tile's columns) or change moskovian UHV?

File with Moskovian cities we will post later (may be PSYX halp to us)

PS
Sorry by my moskovian english :blush:

I am sure we can accommodate the city name placing. We actually needed an update for the Russian territories. I will make sure to tell micbic.

Expanding the map, however, would cause trouble. All map arrays and most of the UHVs would have to be recoded. Consider +7 tiles eastwards. That means that Arabia and Turkey would get more land and hence be even less likely to go west towards Europe. Also Moscow and Kiev would get some more land, but those have enough already (each has more land that they can easily claim than anyone else, except the Arabs perhaps). Kiev and Moscow are already the largest in territory. Would you guys be willing to perhaps rearange the cities to add Kazan anyway.

Right now, the biggest Moscowan UHV challenge is to liberate Kiev (and later beat Bulgaria in culture). That gives Moscow plenty of Barbs to combat.

I will try to accommodate the map changes, there might be a conflict with the Hungarian updates, I will try to resolve it.

Ptitsa Consul, what is your comment about Heroes of Might and Magic? I am a big fan of that game too.

Ptitsa Consul, what is your comment about Heroes of Might and Magic?
Yes, as for me, HOMM (especially HOMM III) - is one of the best fantasy-style TBS :)
Last version V, I think, so particular to PC's configuration and HOMM IV is very differ from others.
And now I like to play new "King's Bounty" by Katauri Interactive (freelance is cool :))

What about map: we are very glad to help for update "our" territory :)

I asked to map creator about "rearange the cities to add Kazan anyway". He answered, that this way is not realistic, literally "We can. We can rearange cites of London or Paris too".
If changing map size is so problematic, may be create fictive Kazan and Astrakhan places or new projects (as Panama etc), which first time accessible only for Moskovians - They can give to owner access to keshiks or same, for example... We'll think about this...

About "beat Bulgaria in culture" UHV - I played by Moskovian on Monarch (Alpha 4). All UHVs are so easy :( Last UHV is easiest - more than 15 cities and Drama :)

Moskovia (Tzardom of Moskow and Rusiian Emrpire later) all times from Ivan IV to Peter I and later aspired to give access to seas Baltic and Black. And to give "The Straits" (The Bosporus and The Dardanelles) were the best wish of many russian leaders... May be, RFCE-Team can to transform this fact to last UHV?

All UHVs are so easy :( Last UHV is easiest - more than 15 cities and Drama :)

Moskovia (Tzardom of Moskow and Rusiian Emrpire later) all times from Ivan IV to Peter I and later aspired to give access to seas Baltic and Black. And to give "The Straits" (The Bosporus and The Dardanelles) were the best wish of many russian leaders... May be, RFCE-Team can to transform this fact to last UHV?

I agree, moscow at emporer, nothing to do. Would be nice if ottomans and moscow actually fight for constantinople, give them tanks :)

bye Myri

Yes, as for me, HOMM (especially HOMM III) - is one of the best fantasy-style TBS :)
Last version V, I think, so particular to PC's configuration and HOMM IV is very differ from others.
And now I like to play new "King's Bounty" by Katauri Interactive (freelance is cool :))

What about map: we are very glad to help for update "our" territory :)

I asked to map creator about "rearange the cities to add Kazan anyway". He answered, that this way is not realistic, literally "We can. We can rearange cites of London or Paris too".
If changing map size is so problematic, may be create fictive Kazan and Astrakhan places or new projects (as Panama etc), which first time accessible only for Moskovians - They can give to owner access to keshiks or same, for example... We'll think about this...

About "beat Bulgaria in culture" UHV - I played by Moskovian on Monarch (Alpha 4). All UHVs are so easy :( Last UHV is easiest - more than 15 cities and Drama :)

Moskovia (Tzardom of Moskow and Rusiian Emrpire later) all times from Ivan IV to Peter I and later aspired to give access to seas Baltic and Black. And to give "The Straits" (The Bosporus and The Dardanelles) were the best wish of many russian leaders... May be, RFCE-Team can to transform this fact to last UHV?

Heroes IV had too much RPG elements for a TBS and to little RPG elements for an actual RPG. Heroes V is what IV should have been.

I proposed the third Moscowan UHV to represent the shift (and preservation) of Slavic culture from the Balkans to Russia after the Ottoman invasion. There is the suggestion to also include Byzantium to make it harder, however, if the Byzantines fall historically this becomes trivial.

We can make the Russian UHV: have 1 Atlantic Access in year something. That would mean war with Sweden or the Norse or good trade/relations with Spain or England/France. Alternatively, we can ask for "control" of the Black or Baltic seas. We will have to define "control", hold Constantinople or have x number of cities on the Baltic coast.

For Kazan: extending the map with doing all the work in coding + more re-balancing of the middle east just for the sake of Kazan is unreasonable. (You cannot compare the importance of Kazan with that of Paris, London and Moscow) We can add a few later Keshik spawns to represent Kazan. Adding "conquest of Kazan" as a Russian project is probably not a good idea. If you have Boyars (13), you will never build Keshiks (12) and there is plenty of Fur and Game in Russia. We were thinking about a Siberian Colonization project, but we gave it up for it didn't seem to provide any real benefit.

BTW: there is no such thing as RFCE-Team. We are all the team (yourself included). Sedna17 and I are doing most of the coding (pretty much all of it) with micbic being in charge of he maps and jessiecat giving valuable historical advice with his great knowledge and resources. However, many more people have contributed in terms of maps, art, suggestions, discussions and so on.

Heroes V is what IV should have been.
Yes, of course! !!! :) But HOMM V, as for me, is only beautiful version of HOMM III in many cases... New conception of Necromancy is good, but we lost swamp-rase with those defence bonuses and dark-elf rase is not the best alternative for classical Dungeon :(

We can make the Russian UHV: have 1 Atlantic Access in year something.
This is good idea! I like it :)!!! (I say only for me and papa1 in most of all ideas)

You cannot compare the importance of Kazan with that of Paris, London and Moscow
Yes of course. We have said it emotionally... We want only more realistic mod :)

Access to "keshiks" I said only for example... I am thinking about benefits of Siberia, and I don't know now about this... Siberian conquest is great thing for Moskovia, but it is not colonial conquest, of course (it no equal to other projects on mod). May be this UHV is not EUROPEAN UHV? Moskow added other territory of Golden Horde only (as one of the vassals of Golden Horde). It is not european event, only russian (or global)

That would mean war with Sweden or the Norse or good trade/relations with Spain or England/France.
Very good! War against Sweden is real war in russian (moskovian) history. And Moskovia was adversary for Poland. Polish troops captured Moskow on the beginning of XV century, but moskovian guerillas and people's volunteer corps freed Moskow. It is very strange in realistic mod to see pleasured Poland to Moskovia...

We will have to define "control", hold Constantinople or have x number of cities on the Baltic coast.
To hold Constantinople may be to last moskovian UHV. In real history Moskovia=Russian Empire had many war against Ottomans. Alived Byzantines in XIII century is so strange too (in realistic mod). Constantinople was falled and captured of turks in 1453...

However, many more people have contributed in terms of maps, art, suggestions, discussions and so on.
We understand it, yes of course. We want localise our ideas only for russian history, and we shall glad to have all-european strategy. (Russia is not only Europe. bu thi fact if not so significal, isn'n it?)

yes of "course", you mean?
and Siberian Colonization could provide units or just raw production bonuses.

Siberian Colonization could provide units or just raw production bonuses. Idk.

yes of "course", you mean?
Yes, sorry :) Fixed now!
I have no practice in english everyday :( I have many mistakes...

Siberian Colonization could provide units or just raw production bonuses.
It is not the question! The question is "what unit or what raw production bonuses" :)

It is impossible to represent non-European Russia in an European mod. I think there is plenty of European Russia that can be represented.

When one thinks about England, one thinks about sea domination and colonies, yet the the British here are represented by Longbowman (100 years war) and land bound UP. The colonies are represented as competition between England and Spain and France and the others, i.e. we represent the European part of the colonization, not the influence that England had over India and North America.

Same with the Arabs and the Ottomans.

The same should be with Russia.

The war with the Golden Horde is represented as the liberation of Kiev and everything to the east is not very important (for Europe). What is important are the wars with the Ottomans, Poland and Sweden as well as the cultural preservation of the Orthodoxy and so on.

Siberia: it had enormous impact on the Russian development, but did it have that during the time period of the mod. We did not include Alaska since all the exiting things in Alaska started in the late 19th century with the gold rush, it was useless before then (that's why Russia sold it to USA). So how big were the benefits from Siberia in the period 1300AD - 1800AD? I don't know, I am just asking.

Also I am reluctant to include a wonder/project that can only be build by one nation. Who else can go to Siberia? Only Kiev, if they miraculously survive.

We can include Siberia in the Russian UP. How about that?

We can include Siberia in the Russian UP. How about that?
Great! :)

As for Kazan and Astrakhan - my work about Moskovian Rus's cities is close to end - I reserved two fiction places tile for them. If my friends shell agree to me - may be this variant is solution of that problem. But Russian UP is more wonderful solution, yes :)

Great! :)

As for Kazan and Astrakhan - my work about Moskovian Rus's cities is close to end - I reserved two fiction places tile for them. If my friends shell agree to me - may be this variant is solution of that problem. But Russian UP is more wonderful solution, yes :)

How about this:
Moscow UP: Power of Siberian land - If Russia is at war with non-Independent player, Russian units get 20% production discount.

Russia gets to summon forces from far east and thus gets cheaper units. Indies and Barbs are not counted as initially Moscow will have to clean the Mongols entirely on its own, afterwards they get the discount for wars with Poland and Sweden and Turkey.

Moscow UHV: Gain access to "warm waters": either Control Constantinople (vassalize Bulgaria/Byzantium or fight Turkey) or get one Atlantic Access (fight/vassalize Sweden and/or Denmark).

I think that UP isn't very good. First, Russia could declare war on a far off player and never accept peace, which will give it the bonus for the rest of the game. Second, it's not a that useful UP, and the one we currently have fits better with Russia's UHVs. So I think only after we start some serious re-thinking the UHVs and UPs and the rest of the balancing issues we should change anything.

There are issues and I agree, but with the introduction of Faith Points, Russia already gets something like its current UP, so it is in some sense doubled. Also, Russians wanted to see Siberia somehow reflected into the picture.

I am open for other proposals.

There are issues and I agree, but with the introduction of Faith Points, Russia already gets something like its current UP, so it is in some sense doubled. Also, Russians wanted to see Siberia somehow reflected into the picture.

I am open for other proposals.

I agree with you. Historically Russia was often diplomatically isolated from the rest of Europe. Maybe it's UP should result in worse foriegn modifiers. Isolation does have it's costs afterall.

I agree with you. Historically Russia was often diplomatically isolated from the rest of Europe. Maybe it's UP should result in worse foriegn modifiers. Isolation does have it's costs afterall.

UP gives, doesn't take. We have to pick another one.

Ptitsa Consul, only just now (being busy with the Faith Points), I got a chance to look at the map that you posted. I like the new terrain and I will try to include it (without conflicting with the previous and later changes), but what is going on with the city names and years?

We cannot include so many cities as independent, nor force the AI to settle there. Also, they are too sparse to use for city name map. For city name map we need to label ALL the tiles. Usually a city should take a 2 by 2 square and only in some special situations (Kiev, Moscow, Novgorod) more is acceptable. Otherwise you may end up having two Kiev cities on the map.

but what is going on with the city names and years?
My city signs are in looking for civfanatics.ru's users now. There are not list of needed indpendent cities. It is only (main of them) list of russian names of settler-points. I think about no force to AI settle of most of all places. We (I and my friends) thouts only for realistic names.

Otherwise you may end up having two Kiev cities on the map.
Yes, it is a problem. But in some areas is too hard to search different names :( north-east of Rus' (Yugra and Vologda-lands) and south-east of european Russia (north Caucasus) are so poor for cities (and villages too) of period of 500-1800. Most of all southern moskovian cities were founded after 1650-1700... It's not a problem. We agree to sequest our list, but Khabarovsk, for example, is NEVER can be in european Russia. We can to represent a list of latest russian cities (after 1800) by areas (north, middle, south or more) for more realistic MOD. Also, some north and east lands are native mordovian, chuvashian, hanty-mansi'an (yugra) lands. That regions may be not in moskovian settlermap (I am having that area free).

The city-abelled map we (I) can to post on nearby 2-3 days. It may contain more than 2x2 area's cities, but we are only help for you and we shell glad for any remarks for our map!

PS
Siberian question is (for us) not very serious problem. In European MOD Siberian question is so void. But your uderstanding of marine UHVs ig great! But! Current moskovian UP is thing, which crushed the balance of game. I played for Moskovia AND moskovian historical victory is so easy :(

try google maps to find city name candidates, then research them on wikipedia, you'll eventually find something.

The UHV would be implemented in the next version. It is interesting to see how it would work for an UHV that provided two very different ways of achieving it.

A note, Moscow would probably settle most of the land east of Poland (including the chuvash territories). So some names would be appropriate even if they are local and not Russian.

try google maps to find city name candidates, then research them on wikipedia, you'll eventually find something.
Dear friend, I'm not a stupid man, OK?
I had used wide spectrum of historical sources, Wikipedia too (from Wiki I had used great material of oldest historical cities of Russia (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Перечень_исторических_городов_России - on russian, excuse me).
The problem is that fact, what moskovian start to settle some land on late ages. North-east of european Russia is cold tajga, swamps and forested tundra. Nothern Caucasus is the land of agressive hilanders and the land with big danger of crimean tatar's raids (slave trading, pillage).

So some names would be appropriate even if they are local and not Russian.
Yes, of course :) We are only want to discuss of city-naming. Tomorrow or day after tomorrow I post our variant. And later we can discuss about it, OK? :)

Hello again. I'm sorry for delay. My job is damaged by crisis too :( That's why, I had been late to post my russian cities placing's work. More, I thought about 2x2 cities, but had no times for work.

Now, I post my old map, as is. If my friends from CFR shell hep me, new map will post on near future :)

PS
We are glad for using our map in last version of mod! Thanks for you!!!

I have a good news!

I correct my city placing (added some cities on Caucasus and set sizes of all my cities no more then 2x2 tiles). If you can use it on next version of RFCE-mod, I'll be very glad!

Uh... This area appears to have horribly wrong city name map :eek: :
Kursk is close, but Khabarovsk and Omsk...
And not Brjanks, but Brjansk. It's wrong too but not SO far...

Uh... This area appears to have horribly wrong city name map :eek: :
Kursk is close, but Khabarovsk and Omsk...
And not Brjanks, but Brjansk. It's wrong too but not SO far...

Those are left-overs on the Polish city list, they're used whenever Poland settles a city that is not in the city name array. If they found it in Germany, you'd have Khabarovsk in Germany :) I think the name arrays will eventually cover everything, I'll see if I can help with that.

Sorry for my bad English. I’m writing, because Members of Civfanatics.ru request me post it.
Slavic land is joined without resistance, and also after joining to Moscovian these cities save all culture points. Cossack would be better Boyar instead. Also The beginning for Moscovian should be 1263 AD, when It begins independent princedom.
Moscow’s UHV:
1) Player must merges all Russian lands before 1480 AD. Merge all existing independent cities.
2) Conquest Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod and Astrahan before then 1547 AD (period of 1547-1552)
3) By 1750 AD Controlling territory of Saint Petersburg (You should plant there Swedish city, because Russia must war with Sweden since 1701 to 1721 AD and Russia must conquest this Swedish city, that will renamed to St.Petersurg

Should be new civ: Novgorod princedom (Existing since 862 to 1478 AD). Unic of this Civ: Boyar Republic (=Parlament) : +1 food, +2 hummers, 3 money of each city. UU: Ushkuynick (=Galley)
UHV for it:
1) Player must populates North lands of Russia (Rostov, Pskov, Yaroslavl) before 1100 AD
2) Pope should declare to Poland, Sweden and Germans Cruisade to Novgorod before 1230-1250 AD. Novgorod princedom must save this city
3) Perhaps, Ortodoxian Christianity must be extended 7 North Russians city before 1380 AD

Kievan:
UHV: Controlling North Coast of Black Sea and Central Russia (Kursk, Smolensk etc.) (Stability map for Kievan about North Coast of Black Sea must be red/yellow)
Unic Setting for this Civ: Each conquesting or planting city get Churche and Christianity as religion (same as Arabs)

Poland must get new UHV: Control Kiev and Bryansk before 1377, Moscow before 1610
Kazan should be got access to Siberia for Russian Colonization.
For example: Project Siberia: 2 forest, apples, 2 trading ways + 1 Trader
Project Far East: 2 fishes, crabs, whales and clams. 1 gold, silver, 4 trading ways, +1 trader.

Idea of wd3rer, translated by AlexZanderUser (u must know me in lobby of Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword), approved by civfanatics.ru
Best wishes, AlexZander

Re: Novgorod No more civs will enter the phase, since it requires a lot of work (another request for civ addition (Aragon) was rejected). Novgorod is already an indy, we might get it up stronger.

Re: Other UHVs: Good ideas

Sorry for my bad English. I’m writing, because Members of Civfanatics.ru request me post it.
Slavic land is joined without resistance, and also after joining to Moscovian these cities save all culture points. Cossack would be better Boyar instead. Also The beginning for Moscovian should be 1263 AD, when It begins independent princedom.
Moscow’s UHV:
1) Player must merges all Russian lands before 1480 AD. Merge all existing independent cities.
2) Conquest Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod and Astrahan before then 1547 AD (period of 1547-1552)
3) By 1750 AD Controlling territory of Saint Petersburg (You should plant there Swedish city, because Russia must war with Sweden since 1701 to 1721 AD and Russia must conquest this Swedish city, that will renamed to St.Petersurg

Should be new civ: Novgorod princedom (Existing since 862 to 1478 AD). Unic of this Civ: Boyar Republic (=Parlament) : +1 food, +2 hummers, 3 money of each city. UU: Ushkuynick (=Galley)
UHV for it:
1) Player must populates North lands of Russia (Rostov, Pskov, Yaroslavl) before 1100 AD
2) Pope should declare to Poland, Sweden and Germans Cruisade to Novgorod before 1230-1250 AD. Novgorod princedom must save this city
3) Perhaps, Ortodoxian Christianity must be extended 7 North Russians city before 1380 AD

Kievan:
UHV: Controlling North Coast of Black Sea and Central Russia (Kursk, Smolensk etc.) (Stability map for Kievan about North Coast of Black Sea must be red/yellow)
Unic Setting for this Civ: Each conquesting or planting city get Churche and Christianity as religion (same as Arabs)

Poland must get new UHV: Control Kiev and Bryansk before 1377, Moscow before 1610
Kazan should be got access to Siberia for Russian Colonization.
For example: Project Siberia: 2 forest, apples, 2 trading ways + 1 Trader
Project Far East: 2 fishes, crabs, whales and clams. 1 gold, silver, 4 trading ways, +1 trader.

Idea of wd3rer, translated by AlexZanderUser (u must know me in lobby of Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword), approved by civfanatics.ru
Best wishes, AlexZander

Welcome to RFCEurope. But I have some comments on your suggestions.

Moscow:
UHV:
You're 1st and 2nd UHV are the same if I'm right. You should change that. (and we already have that UHV for the moscovians)
I thought St. Petersburg was founded by St. Peter. And not by the Swedish. I don't like the idea you must be at war with someone.

There is no room left for other Civs. And we already have 2 Slavic civs.

Kievan:
Your suggested UP isn't Unique. You said it yourself. I like the UP they have now.

Poland:
You can't have 2 different dates in 1 UHV.
We have thought about Russian "Colonies". But yours are too powerfull. They should only provide 2 or 3 resources. But I liked (and still do) this idea.

At this point we are not including new civilizations, so Novgorod will have to wait.

Early Moscow spawn coincides with the Mongol invasion and you don't want hordes of Mongols mowing you on tree turns after spawn. Moscow was conquered and then gained its independence, so we decided to make that time the official "spawn date."

We should change the Boyars. Can we have pre-gunpowder Cossacks.

UHVs that you are proposing are essentially the same as the ones that we have now:
1) Player must merges all Russian lands before 1480 AD. Merge all existing independent cities. = Large number of cities (we were using 12 now). Most of those would be conquered anyway.
2) Conquest Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod and Astrahan before then 1547 AD (period of 1547-1552) = Get the Mongols out of Europe. We are diminishing Kazan, but it is technically right on the border of Europe.
3) By 1750 AD Controlling territory of Saint Petersburg (You should plant there Swedish city, because Russia must war with Sweden since 1701 to 1721 AD and Russia must conquest this Swedish city, that will renamed to St.Petersurg = We have the Russian - Swedish conflict via the Atlantic Access with the Russian - Turkish conflict with Constantinople as a historical alternative.

As I note for Arabs/Turks and Russia, we do not try to represent those countries, but rather the effect and relations that they had with Europe. We only represent the Eurocentric part of Russian history.

We may extend Kiev's control requirement as long as it doesn't make it too hard to fight off the Mongols. We may be able to do that with simple rearrangement of the resources to encourage growth to the north. We may change Kiev's UP, however, we do not with to duplicate powers. I am sure they spread Orthodoxy to many cities in the region, but were not as zealous as the Arabs.

We had many discussions about Siberia and we decided not to include it as "colony" any more then the Arabs have conquests to the east. We may include it as part of the Russian UP. Also, the way you have it stated cannot be implemented and even if it could, it would still be too overpowered.

Poland is one of the countries that needs 100% overhaul.

There is no room left for other Civs. And we already have 2 Slavic civs.


There are 3 "pure" (without sounding Nazi) Slavic civs: Moscow, Kiev and Poland as well as Bulgaria which was ruled by the Bulgars, but had dominant Slavic population and even adopted Slavic as the official language. The Cyrillic alphabet was also first adopted in Bulgaria.

Depending on how you look at it, you have 3.5 - 4 Slavic nations.

You're 1st and 2nd UHV are the same if I'm right.
No. 2nd UHV mean conquesting of Ioann IV.
St. Peter
That Peter wasnt Saint. It was Peter The Great. U're right, but villages around present St. Petersburg was have by Sweden. If U remember, Russia lost Neva river after Smolens war in 17 century.

There are 3 "pure" (without sounding Nazi) Slavic civs: Moscow, Kiev and Poland as well as Bulgaria which was ruled by the Bulgars, but had dominant Slavic population and even adopted Slavic as the official language. The Cyrillic alphabet was also first adopted in Bulgaria.

Depending on how you look at it, you have 3.5 - 4 Slavic nations.

Sorry. I meant "Russian" Civs. But Russian isn't the correct word either. But I hope you understand I mean Moscow and Kiev.

No. 2nd UHV mean conquesting of Ioann IV.

That Peter wasnt Saint. It was Peter The Great. U're right, but villages around present St. Petersburg was have by Sweden. If U remember, Russia lost Neva river after Smolens war in 17 century.

I know it is a other thing in history. But the task is the same. Control Russia.

I forgot that thing about Peter. But I don't know much about the Russian history, so I assume you're right.

Sorry. I meant "Russian" Civs. But Russian isn't the correct word either. But I hope you understand I mean Moscow and Kiev.

"East Slavic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Slavs)" is the term you're looking for ;)

Early Moscow spawn coincides with the Mongol invasion and you don't want hordes of Mongols mowing you on tree turns after spawn. Moscow was conquered and then gained its independence, so we decided to make that time the official "spawn date."

Moscow has never been conquered by the Mongols! only a case of looting. But it does not capture. Put next to Moscow, a source of copper or iron, and allow them to produce guisarme! Another Kremlin provides excellent protection! Moscow has historically been surrounded by forests and more powerful cities in that period. Later, because of this, Moscow has increased in population and the army, and gradually became an empire unite!

UHVs that you are proposing are essentially the same as the ones that we have now:
1) Player must merges all Russian lands before 1480 AD. Merge all existing independent cities. = Large number of cities (we were using 12 now). Most of those would be conquered anyway.
2) Conquest Kazan, Nizhniy Novgorod and Astrahan before then 1547 AD (period of 1547-1552) = Get the Mongols out of Europe. We are diminishing Kazan, but it is technically right on the border of Europe.
3) By 1750 AD Controlling territory of Saint Petersburg (You should plant there Swedish city, because Russia must war with Sweden since 1701 to 1721 AD and Russia must conquest this Swedish city, that will renamed to St.Petersurg = We have the Russian - Swedish conflict via the Atlantic Access with the Russian - Turkish conflict with Constantinople as a historical alternative.

As I note for Arabs/Turks and Russia, we do not try to represent those countries, but rather the effect and relations that they had with Europe. We only represent the Eurocentric part of Russian history.
1)But this must be done not as a momentary joining now, let Moscow to develop herself string any land!
2)These 1 and 2 wins are different in that 1 win RUSSIAN string any land, 2 wins OCCUPY longer RUSSIAN!
If I use the proposed
Slavic land is joined without resistance, and also after joining to Moscovian these cities save all culture points, then with 2 wins, some cities will not be so join without resistance
3)But Russia has never controlled Constantinople, but controlled the Rostov-on-Don to take away Turkey, Belarus and ukraine from Poland, St. Petersburg from Sweden

1) http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Muscovy_1300-1462.png
2) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82_%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81% D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%83%D 0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D1 %80%D0%B8_%D0%98%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5_IV.jpg


We may extend Kiev's control requirement as long as it doesn't make it too hard to fight off the Mongols. We may be able to do that with simple rearrangement of the resources to encourage growth to the north. We may change Kiev's UP, however, we do not with to duplicate powers. I am sure they spread Orthodoxy to many cities in the region, but were not as zealous as the Arabs.

Then you should post a desire to spread Orthodox Kiev, from him throughout the Soviet place is the main religion is Orthodox Christianity

We had many discussions about Siberia and we decided not to include it as "colony" any more then the Arabs have conquests to the east. We may include it as part of the Russian UP. Also, the way you have it stated cannot be implemented and even if it could, it would still be too overpowered.

Sorry but in my opinion to give Russia an UP as absorption of the contents of cities (the force of Siberia) - foolish as colonized Siberia only in 1600, is obtained for the period 1263-1600 a unique power in Moscow essentially invented

Poland is one of the countries that needs 100% overhaul.


Good!


Kievan:
Your suggested UP isn't Unique. You said it yourself. I like the UP they have now.

Well, I do not like today's UP, in my opinion does not fit entirely

Poland:
You can't have 2 different dates in 1 UHV.

Let it be to control the Bryansk and Kiev in 1377


We have thought about Russian "Colonies". But yours are too powerfull. They should only provide 2 or 3 resources. But I liked (and still do) this idea.

Well, Europe is building 6 of the colonial project, it is normal, Russia 2 - already bust? Understand Siberia vast territory that is still not fully understood, it keeps a lot of resources


I know it is a other thing in history. But the task is the same. Control Russia.

I forgot that thing about Peter. But I don't know much about the Russian history, so I assume you're right.

All the same it is different.
But if you say obedenim those 2 wins, what will we have a new victory? Throughout its history 1300-1800 Russia waged war, colonization, only since 1800 Culture, people, science came up, and it is not included in the time interval for this map


Sorry my bad english!
Translated in translate.google.ru

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_% D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D0%B8
in russian language

Известно, что первыми епископскими кафедрами, кроме Киева, была Новгородская, а также, возможно, Черниговская и Владимир-Волынская и Белгородская (ныне селение Белогородка под Киевом).
На части территорий христианство насаждалось силой; при этом уничтожались культовые сооружения язычников, сопротивлявшиеся подвергались репрессиям.
Согласно некоторым летописным свидетельствам[25], Новгород оказал активное сопротивление насаждению христианства: он был крещён в 990 году епископом Иоакимом при военной помощи киевского воеводы Добрыни (брат матери князя Владимира — Малуши) и тысяцкого Путяты[26].
В Ростове и Муроме сопротивление насаждению христианства, согласно традиционной церковной истории, продолжалась до XII века: два первых епископа, посланные в Ростов, были изгнаны, а третий — св. Леонтий — погиб от рук язычников в 1073 (согласно прологу, в 993)[27]. Ростовчане были крещены только лишь епископом Исаией († 15 мая 1090)[28], восшедшим на кафедру в 1078 году. К 1070-м, видимо, относятся и события, описанные в «Житии»[29][30] Авраамия Ростовского, в частности сокрушение им идола Велеса, на месте которого был воздвигнут Богоявленский монастырь.

It is known that the first bishop's chairs, not in Kiev, was Novgorod, and, possibly, Chernihiv and Volyn, Vladimir, Belgorod (now Belogorodka village near Kiev).
On the part of the territories Christianity was implanted by force, while places of worship destroyed by the Gentiles, resisted were subjected to reprisals.
According to some chronicles [25], Novgorod, Russia has actively resisted the planting of Christianity: he was baptized in 990 by Bishop Joachim in military aid to the Kiev governor Dobryni (mother's brother Prince Vladimir - Malusha) and tysyatskogo Putyata [26].
In Rostov and Murom resistance to planting of Christianity, according to the traditional church history, lasted until the XII century: the two first bishop sent to Rostov, were expelled, and the third - St. Leonti - died at the hands of the Gentiles in 1073 (according to the prologue, in 993) [27]. The Rostov had been baptized only Bishop Isaiah († 15 May 1090) [28], who ascended the pulpit in 1078. By the 1070-meters, apparently, are and the events described in the Life "[29] [30] Abraham of Rostov, in particular, to crush them to the idol of Veles, in the place which was built Epiphany Monastery.

My version of the location of cities

I don't understand what "string any land" means.

Specifying territory means that Moscow would have to go at war with Kiev if Kiev survives the Mongols. That is why we picked a large number of cities as opposed to specifying territory.

The city of Moscow was probably not conquered itself, but did it exist as any kind of a power. Before the Mongols were started losing their power, did Moscow had a ruler whose influence extended beyond the city. I don't know, so I am asking.

For every civ, usually 2 UHVs are things the civ managed to achieve. The last is supposed to change history. If Russia had access to "warm seas" then the history of Europe (and the world) would have been changed. The third Moscow UHV was suggested by Russians on this forum.

We can add more fur and ivory to the East end of the map suggesting Siberia. What resources were appropriate at the time? I know Russians now get a lot of oil, gas and metals, but fro the period 1600 - 1800, oil and gas were useless. I don't know if there were mining operations.

I don't understand what "string any land" means.

Specifying territory means that Moscow would have to go at war with Kiev if Kiev survives the Mongols. That is why we picked a large number of cities as opposed to specifying territory.

The city of Moscow was probably not conquered itself, but did it exist as any kind of a power. Before the Mongols were started losing their power, did Moscow had a ruler whose influence extended beyond the city. I don't know, so I am asking.

For every civ, usually 2 UHVs are things the civ managed to achieve. The last is supposed to change history. If Russia had access to "warm seas" then the history of Europe (and the world) would have been changed. The third Moscow UHV was suggested by Russians on this forum.

We can add more fur and ivory to the East end of the map suggesting Siberia. What resources were appropriate at the time? I know Russians now get a lot of oil, gas and metals, but fro the period 1600 - 1800, oil and gas were useless. I don't know if there were mining operations.

I originally had gems in the Urals, but the Urals are gone. Furs, gems, and metals are probably appropriate - we can put some ivory up north, as well.

I don't understand what "string any land" means.

Unite google translate as a string any.
Unite Russian lands.
many words in google does not understand and takes the other meaning ...

Specifying territory means that Moscow would have to go at war with Kiev if Kiev survives the Mongols. That is why we picked a large number of cities as opposed to specifying territory.

UHV Poland, Muscovy should include these lands. usually the Mongols in 85% cases, cues plunged into civil war as the redesigned

The city of Moscow was probably not conquered itself, but did it exist as any kind of a power. Before the Mongols were started losing their power, did Moscow had a ruler whose influence extended beyond the city. I don't know, so I am asking.

If I understand your question, Moscow was a vassal state of 1330-1480, but was never captured, the whole story, she had to take over the lands of Russia and the fight against the Mongols, not always successfully

For every civ, usually 2 UHVs are things the civ managed to achieve. The last is supposed to change history. If Russia had access to "warm seas" then the history of Europe (and the world) would have been changed. The third Moscow UHV was suggested by Russians on this forum.

Why little towns so much alter the history of the world?

We can add more fur and ivory to the East end of the map suggesting Siberia. What resources were appropriate at the time? I know Russians now get a lot of oil, gas and metals, but fro the period 1600 - 1800, oil and gas were useless. I don't know if there were mining operations.

Gem, gold, ivory, copper, coal, iron, silver,deer,furs,sheep...This is in excess of what was in the region
The Arctic Circle in the Arctic Ocean whales
Results in the Krasnoyarsk region found more than 10 thousand deposits and ore occurrences of various minerals.

At the far east a lot of seafood, trade routes

Well, Europe is building 6 of the colonial project, it is normal, Russia 2 - already bust? Understand Siberia vast territory that is still not fully understood, it keeps a lot of resources


I don't know how much Siberia produced, but for the gameplay it shouldn't be that much. It is way too powerfull as I said. And the other colonies doesn't provide traderoutes and/or merchants, so IMO Siberia shouldn't provide them either.

I don't know how much Siberia produced, but for the gameplay it shouldn't be that much. It is way too powerfull as I said. And the other colonies doesn't provide traderoutes and/or merchants, so IMO Siberia shouldn't provide them either.


OK, let's let Siberia only gives some resources (gold, silver, ivory) resources, and the Far East (whales, fish, crabs)

OK, let's let Siberia only gives some resources (gold, silver, ivory) resources, and the Far East (whales, fish, crabs)

Sorry, we're not adding colonial projects that can be built by only one civ. We're trying to figure out what map changes need to be made to represent some of the productivity of Siberia.

It might be worthwhile to have a few resources spawn near the edge of the map after a certain date to represent the colonization of Siberia, and a few more near Archangelsk to represent the opening of the far north.

Sorry, we're not adding colonial projects that can be built by only one civ. We're trying to figure out what map changes need to be made to represent some of the productivity of Siberia.

It might be worthwhile to have a few resources spawn near the edge of the map after a certain date to represent the colonization of Siberia, and a few more near Archangelsk to represent the opening of the far north.

Then let him near Arkhangelsk will these resources, as you suggested. colonization of Siberia is over in 1650, the Far East in 1700

I think you have no more questions? Do you agree on the proposed changes regarding me in Eastern Europe?

The city of Moscow was probably not conquered itself, but did it exist as any kind of a power. Before the Mongols were started losing their power, did Moscow had a ruler whose influence extended beyond the city. I don't know, so I am asking.
During initial invasion Moscow was a town in Vladimir-Suzdal Grand Duchy, which was conquered and subdued by Mobgols. The only lands not conquered by them were near Novgorod, in the North.
Moscow rose to power during Mongol yoke era, when its Princes became tax collectors for Mongols and used the proceeds to collect the Russian lands, among other means.