View Full Version : Discussion: Civilizations and Leaders


cfkane
Jun 14, 2009, 11:17 PM
In Fictionalization IV, all civilizations have one or more leaders, one unique building, and three unique units.

1. The Unique Unit from the regular game
2. The Legendary Unit (LU). This is a special unit which represents a prominent archetype from its civilization's culture. Like missionaries or executives, there is a limit on how many you can build.
3. The Superhero. This is a powerful, expensive late game unit, which, unlike other Hero units, a civilization can only build once, and is unique to that civilization.

Currently, the Superheroes have yet to be implemented into the beta.

The current civilizations in the mod are as follows:


AMERICA
Leaders: Jed Bartlet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jed_bartlet), Jack Ryan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ryan_(Tom_Clancy)), Nehemiah Scudder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehemiah_Scudder)
LU: Gunslinger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunslinger)*
Superhero: Superman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman)*

ARABIA
Leaders: Haroun Al-Raschid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harun_al-Rashid), Vathek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vathek)
LU: Carpet Rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_carpet)*
Superhero: Jabbar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabbar)*

ATLANTIS
Leaders: Atlas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis#Plato.27s_account), Arthur Curry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaman)
UU: Polyreme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyreme#Heavy_warships)
UB: Orichalcum Treasury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orichalcum)
LU: Mersoldier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merman)*
Superhero: Namor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namor)*

AZTEC
Leaders: Huitzilopochtli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huitzilopochtli)
LU: Ahuizotl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahuizotl_(creature))*
Superhero: Quetzalcoatl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freedom_Force_characters#Freedom_Force_vs. _the_Third_Reich)*

CELTIA
Leaders: Macbeth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbeth_(Macbeth)), Lear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Lear)
LU: Fianna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fianna)*
Superhero: X-O Manowar*

CHINA
Leaders: Huangdi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_emperor), Wu Qinghua (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Detachment_of_Women)
LU: Loong Dragon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_dragon)*
Superhero: Li Xiaolong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_lee)*

EGYPT
Leaders: Ozymandias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias), Ra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa%27uld_characters_in_Stargate#Ra)
LU: Anubite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis)*
Superhero: Teth Adam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Adam)*

ENGLAND
Leaders: Arthur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_arthur), Gloriana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faerie_Queene), Big Brother (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_(Nineteen_Eighty-Four))
LU: Knight of the Round Table*
Superhero: Marvelman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvelman)*

FREEDO-MORONIKA
Leaders: Rufus T. Firefly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_Soup_(1933_film)), Moe Hailstone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Nazty_Spy), Victor von Doom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Doom)
UU: Marxist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groucho_Marx#Quotations_about_Groucho_Marx)
UB: Opera House (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Night_at_the_Opera_(film))
LU: Doombot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Doom%27s_devices#Doombots)*
Superhero: Doomsman II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Doom%27s_devices#Doombots)*

FRANCE
Leaders: Prince Charming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_charming), Louis XVI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_World,_Part_I#The_French_Revolution )
LU: Conquérant des Nuages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robur_the_Conqueror)*
Superhero: ?

GERMANY
Leaders: Froschkonig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Frog_Prince_(story)), Adenoid Hynkel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Dictator)
LU: ?
Superhero: Heinrich I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_castle_wolfenstein#Heinrich_I)

GREECE
Leaders: Agamemnon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agamemnon), Oedipus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus)
LU: Centaur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaur)*
Superhero: Wonder Woman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Woman)*

HYBOREA
Leaders: Conan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conan_the_Barbarian)
UU: Cimmerian Warrior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmeria_(Conan))
UB: Mitraic Temple
LU: Black Guard
Superhero: ?

INCA
Leaders: Manco Capac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manco_Capac)
LU: ?
Superhero: Ajak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajak)*

INDIA
Leaders: Raghava Rama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama), Khan Noonien Singh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Singh)
LU: Pandava (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandava)*
Superhero: Shaktiman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaktiman)*

JAPAN
Leaders: Yamato Takeru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_Takeru)
LU: Gundam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundam)*
Superhero: Goku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goku)*

MALI
Leaders: Chibinda Ilunga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tshibinda_Ilunga), Shango (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shango)
LU: Loa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loa)*
Superhero: Tarzan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarzan)*

NATIVE AMERICA
Leaders: Hiawatha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Hiawatha)
LU: Thunderbird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbird_(mythology))*
Superhero: Apache Chief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Chief)*

PERSIA
Leaders: Xerxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_(comics)), Sheherezade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheherazade), Ayatollah Daraei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_orders)
LU: Simurgh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simurgh)*
Superhero: ?

ROME
Leaders: Romulus and Remus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_and_remus), Lucius Tiberius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Tiberius)
LU: Gladiator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator)*
Superhero: Ultima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Characters_from_Top_10#Commissioner_Ultima )*

RUSSIA
Leaders: Ivan the Terrible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Terrible_in_Russian_folklore), Fearless Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fearless_Leader)
LU: SMERSH Agent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMERSH_(James_Bond))*
Superhero: Omega Red (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Red)*

SHAMBHALA
Leaders: Suchandra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suchandra)
UU: Dob Dob
UB: Gompa
LU: Bodhisatva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisatva)*
Superhero: ?

SPAIN
Leaders: El Cid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_cid)
LU: Campeador*
Superhero:

SUMERIA
Leaders: Gilgamesh
LU: Harimtu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamhat)*
Superhero: Gozer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters)*

TRANSYLVANIA
Leaders: Dracula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Dracula)
UU: Nosferatu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosferatu)
UB: Sanctuary
LU: ?
Superhero: The Master (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_(Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer))*

UTOPIA
Leaders: Utopos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia_(book))
UU: Politis
UB: Garden
LU: Syphograntus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia_(book)#Book_2:_Discourse_on_Utopia)*
Superhero: The Samaritan*

VIKINGS
Leaders: Beowulf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf_(hero))
LU: Valkyrie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie)*
Superhero: Thor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics))*

ZULU
Leaders: Jaffe Joffer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_to_America), T'Challa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(comics))
LU: Impundulu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impundulu)*
Superhero: Storm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_(Marvel_Comics))*


* not yet implemented

Yared
Jun 15, 2009, 04:00 AM
Persia = aladin

Dibukk
Jun 15, 2009, 04:25 AM
Well at first I have to say: Congratulations! I think this mod really deserves a subforum! :goodjob:

:woohoo:

Alright, back to topic.

I had a look at your list and I've got some ideas to fill some of the gaps:

Legendary Units:

Germany - the Drachenflieger from "The War in the Air", something from Germanic mythology like Dwarves or Dragonslayers or the Übermensch
Note: Drachenflieger is already a plural so please don't call it Drachenfliegers :sad:

Incas - possibly one of these: Apu (a lower mountain god), Malliki (the Andean form of mummies) or Supay (a race of Incan demons)

Transylvania - oh, there are many possibilities: Homunculi, Werewolves, Giant Bats, Zombies and so on



Superheroes:


Arabia - I guesse Ra's al Ghul would be far better known thn Jabbar
Celts - Obelix
France - Exodus (orignally he was called Bennet du Paris)
Germany - I don't know Heinrich I. and I can't find anything about him on Wikipedia so I suggest Red Skull
Hyborea - Red Sonja
Persia - The Prince of Persia or if you want a name call him Dastan
Shambhala - Raudra Chakrin (well, he's not a real superhero but he is prophesied to appear in the year 2424 and defeat all rulers of the world in order to establish a world-wide Golden Age)

cfkane
Jun 15, 2009, 10:01 AM
Well at first I have to say: Congratulations! I think this mod really deserves a subforum! :goodjob:

:woohoo:

Alright, back to topic.

I had a look at your list and I've got some ideas to fill some of the gaps:

Legendary Units:

Germany - the Drachenflieger from "The War in the Air", something from Germanic mythology like Dwarves or Dragonslayers or the Übermensch
Note: Drachenflieger is already a plural so please don't call it Drachenfliegers :sad:

Incas - possibly one of these: Apu (a lower mountain god), Malliki (the Andean form of mummies) or Supay (a race of Incan demons)

Transylvania - oh, there are many possibilities: Homunculi, Werewolves, Giant Bats, Zombies and so on



Superheroes:


Arabia - I guesse Ra's al Ghul would be far better known thn Jabbar
Celts - Obelix
France - Exodus (orignally he was called Bennet du Paris)
Germany - I don't know Heinrich I. and I can't find anything about him on Wikipedia so I suggest Red Skull
Hyborea - Red Sonja
Persia - The Prince of Persia or if you want a name call him Dastan
Shambhala - Raudra Chakrin (well, he's not a real superhero but he is prophesied to appear in the year 2424 and defeat all rulers of the world in order to establish a world-wide Golden Age)


Well, for superheroes I'm mainly looking for powerful beings that can go toe-to-toe with one another. Ra's Al Ghul and Red Skull aren't necessarily powerful fighters, especially when put in the same lineup as Goku and Superman.

Jabbar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabbar) is a superhero from a recent comic series called The 99 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_99), where a group of young men and women are granted powers based on the Islamic concept of the 99 names of God.

Heinrich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_Castle_Wolfenstein#Heinrich_I) is the magically imbued Saxon prince summoned by Nazi occultists at the end of Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

The_J
Jun 15, 2009, 03:27 PM
Heinrich...not very satisfied with him...why do you not take Siegfried as the german hero?

Hero for france: Not very creative, but why not Joan D'arc?

For the units: FfH2 has centaurs and a carpet flyer, iirc ;).


:lol: Gozer.

cfkane
Jun 15, 2009, 08:37 PM
Heinrich...not very satisfied with him...why do you not take Siegfried as the german hero?

Hero for france: Not very creative, but why not Joan D'arc?

For the units: FfH2 has centaurs and a carpet flyer, iirc ;).


:lol: Gozer.

I can't use Siegfried or Joan because these have to be powerful-demigod characters that can go toe-to-toe with Superman.

I originally wanted to put Superman in the game, but then I realized that giving him to only one civ could make said civ overpowered. So, the superhero national unit was planned as a balance between different players.

So for any character to be nominated for Superhero status, they have to be modern and powerful; comic book characters prefered, who can match the idea of a superhero on some level, be it physical power or national pride.

The_J
Jun 16, 2009, 02:01 PM
Ah, okay.
That'll be a problem for some civs, i think.


For egypt, i hope you've seen the anubis warrior in the database :).

cfkane
Jun 16, 2009, 02:53 PM
Ah, okay.
That'll be a problem for some civs, i think.


For egypt, i hope you've seen the anubis warrior in the database :).

Well, it may be difficult, but not necessarily impossible. I'll just have to dig deeper.

johnny139
Jun 19, 2009, 05:31 PM
I think you may want a different Superhero for Greece. Wonder Woman has closer ties with the Amazons than Greece proper, and since Alliance with Themyscira is already included, well, it's an odd bit of overlap.

May I suggest someone like Ares (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_(Marvel_Comics)), instead?

cfkane
Jun 20, 2009, 01:54 AM
I think you may want a different Superhero for Greece. Wonder Woman has closer ties with the Amazons than Greece proper, and since Alliance with Themyscira is already included, well, it's an odd bit of overlap.

May I suggest someone like Ares (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_(Marvel_Comics)), instead?

Hm, you're right. It is a bit of a strained relationship. Though I don't know about using Ares, since he's been more of a villain. Yet, I'm already set on using Black Adam - a supervillain - for Egypt. So it might not be a problem. I'll give it some thought nonetheless.

On the subject of superheroes, I'm considering X-O Manowar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-O_Manowar) for the Celts. Utopia's hero would have to be an independent agent who's not really tied to any nationality, so right now I'm toying with the idea of Kurt Busiek's Samaritan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_(comics)).

Dibukk
Jun 20, 2009, 03:37 AM
On the subject of superheroes, I'm considering X-O Manowar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-O_Manowar) for the Celts. Utopia's hero would have to be an independent agent who's not really tied to any nationality, so right now I'm toying with the idea of Kurt Busiek's Samaritan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan_(comics)).


Shame on me that I havn't suggested this earlier: Kratos from God of War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratos_(God_of_War)) as the superhero for Greece
It is disputable whether he is a hero or not, but he sure is an extremly powerful warrior who even killed Ares and became the new God of War.

Regarding the Celts, I still suggest Obelix, but Manowar sounds good, too

Pakhawaj
Jun 27, 2009, 10:09 AM
You should include Count Duckula as a Transylvanian leader.
For a "Superhero" of Celtia, you could pick Gog & Magog, I imagine the model wouldn't be hard to create (though I don't know much about this sort of thing!) or if you want to be more interesting choose Asterix and Obelix :)

Methyl Orange
Jul 19, 2009, 05:14 AM
I think Portugal could be added having Lusus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusus) as a leader.

Dibukk
Aug 31, 2009, 05:59 PM
As I stated in the pedia thread, I'm going to add the Shadowrun franchise to the modern/future era of the mod. This gives us some very intresting options for new, modern leaders for several civilizations:

Arabia: Mullah Sayid Jazrir (http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Mullah_Sayid_Jazrir), self-proclaimed phropet and leaser of the Alliance for Allah, an islamistic army that invaded Europe during the time of the Great Jihad

Aztecs: Francisco Pavón, last president of Mexico and founder and first president of Aztlan (http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Aztlan), an Aztec-themed superstate ruled by the megacorporation Aztechnology controlling Middle America

Native America: Daniel Howling Coyote (http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Daniel_Howling_Coyote), Ondian shaman who used the return of magic to led a sucessfull rebellion of the surpressed native tribes known as the Great Ghost Dance, leading to the creation of the NAN (= Native American Nations)

Dumanios
Sep 02, 2009, 05:44 AM
Shame on me that I havn't suggested this earlier: Kratos from God of War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratos_(God_of_War)) as the superhero for Greece

I like this idea.

Although it has been a while since I played Freedom Force,but you could have El Diablo of Freedom Force as a Hero for Spain.Unless he is Mexican,then I've got nothing.For the Russians you could use Nuclear Winter and for the Germans you could use Blitzkrieg from Freedom Force vs. the 3rd Reich.

You could keep Ragnar Lodbrok since there is no proof he existed.

cfkane
Sep 09, 2009, 03:16 PM
One thing that's made me hesitant to add more leaders is that we're quickly running out of possible trait combinations for the leaders.

So I've been thinking about adding a new trait, "Heroic" that grants bonuses to hero units and such. I haven't coded it yet, but I'm keeping it in the back of my mind.

Also, I've been thinking about a new leader for the Vikings: Sneedronningen, The Snow Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Snow_Queen) from the Hans Christian Anderson tale of the same name. I mainly want to include her because I think it would be fun to make a LH out of her.

Dibukk
Sep 10, 2009, 08:52 AM
I never played Freedom Force but on the homepage El Diablo is described as a Latino. Thus it is quite unlikely that he is from Spain. And I think the German and Russian superheroes are finem no need to replace them.

I'd like to finish the superheroes so I revive up some old ideas and throw in some new ones:
France: Obelix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelix) (although he might fit better to the Celts) or Le Nyctalope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Nyctalope)
Greece: Kratos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratos (God of War)) might fit better than Wonder Woman (an amazon isn't necessarily Greek)
Hyborea: Red Sonja (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red Sonja) or the less important but more powerful Kulan Gath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulan Gath)
Persia: Prince of Persia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince of Persia)


Great ideas, both the Snow Queen and the Heroic trait!

If my math is correct there are 66 possible trait combinations with the Heroic trait included. There are currently 50 leaders (already counting the Snow Queen) so there is still enough room left. But if you are worried about traits, how about including Tsentom1's leader traits (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=297557)? With them the number of combinations would be nearly 200 so we don't have to worry any more.
IMO what really is important is that the leaders correspond to different aspects or ages of a civilization (e.g. Hunagdi corresponds with ancient China while Wu Qinghua corresponds with the PRC)
It wouldn't make much sense to add both Agamemnon and Priam as Greek leaders because both of them correspond with the Trojan War. On the other side, there is still room for plenty of good leaders. For instance, both Vathek and Al-Rashid are leaders of early Arabia, but I miss somebody representing modern Arabia like Bab el Ehr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bab el Ehr) or Sayid Jazrir (http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Mullah_Sayid_Jazrir).

Dumanios
Sep 10, 2009, 07:29 PM
I never played Freedom Force but on the homepage El Diablo is described as a Latino. Thus it is quite unlikely that he is from Spain..

Like I said,it was a while since I had played..

Moogi
Sep 12, 2009, 08:01 AM
I had a great idea for a German LU: Helsingard Robots from the comic book series Atomic Robo. For those of you who haven't read the comic (a situation that must be remedied as quickly as possible), I put more information in the 'Units' thread.

Dibukk
Sep 30, 2009, 09:03 AM
I've never been realy satisfied with El Cid as a "fictional" leader for Spain, but recently I stumbled over this guy, who might fit better: Fierabas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fierabras).
And how about Vega (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega_%28Street_Fighter%29) from Street Fighter as the Spanish superhero?

So, what do you think?

Dumanios
Sep 30, 2009, 05:19 PM
I was going to say "Tarzan as a Superhero!?" but then I read his abilities in Wikipedia.

thomas.berubeg
Sep 30, 2009, 06:49 PM
what about Zorro?

cfkane
Sep 30, 2009, 07:45 PM
1. Zorro is just a regular guy in a black suit, no superpowers, nowhere in the league of Superman, Goku or any of the other characters listed

2. Zorro is a New World hero with closer ties to Mexico and California than to Spain, so if he is to be a hero, he certainly can't be a Spanish superhero

3. He's already been requested a million times, and I still haven't changed my mind about it.

Dumanios
Oct 03, 2009, 08:56 AM
Graphics for the Freedo-Moronikan Opera House can be found here:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=276290

Really,I'm just not a fan of building Research Institutes in my cities unless i'm Russia

cfkane
Oct 05, 2009, 12:11 PM
I've updated the opera house graphics, but that request probably should have gone in the Art thread.

By the way, I had an idea that could be used in a future version. The next update will focus on the Legendary Units, so this won't be implemented for a while.

I would add a third trait to each of the leaders, unique to them. The trait would reflect something unique to that character and hopefully add another dimension to the gameplay. For instance, Jack Ryan's unique trait would be Executive Orders, which permanently lowers the cost of rushing production with gold. Dracula's trait would be Vampiric, giving units a promotion that allows them to heal after a victorious combat. Sheherazade's could be Storyteller, where Libraries grant a happiness point.

What do you think?

Dibukk
Oct 05, 2009, 01:39 PM
Awesome idea!
It somehow reminds me of the Powers from RFC. Maybe we can even copy some of them? E.g., I'd say the Russian power (it's called either Power of General Winter or Power of Father Frost, I'm not sure) could be used for the Snow Queen. In case you don't know its effect: if I recall it correctly, every turn it damages enemy units deploid in your territory
I'll think about the traits and hopefully I'll be able to come up with some until tomorrow!

Dumanios
Oct 05, 2009, 03:08 PM
Why doesn't Sheherazade(from her on out to be known as Persian hottie) have diplo music?

cfkane
Oct 05, 2009, 08:41 PM
Awesome idea!
It somehow reminds me of the Powers from RFC. Maybe we can even copy some of them? E.g., I'd say the Russian power (it's called either Power of General Winter or Power of Father Frost, I'm not sure) could be used for the Snow Queen. In case you don't know its effect: if I recall it correctly, every turn it damages enemy units deploid in your territory
I'll think about the traits and hopefully I'll be able to come up with some until tomorrow!

I'm not sure about some of the traits from RFC. A lot of them are SDK based, right? I'm not wild about making SDK changes, mainly because it would exclude Mac users from using the mod.

EDIT: Nevermind. I just checked Rhye's and it looks like all the Powers are python based anyway

But still, the Snow Queen could have an ice-based trait. What about a trait that grants a free promotion to all units giving them a combat bonus fighting in a tundra?

Some more ideas (subject to change):

Great Hunter: Chibinda Ilunga, faster production of Camps (or maybe a free Subdue Animal promotion for recon units, if that promotion is easy to import)
Two-Minute Hate: Big Brother, lowers war weariness
The Barbarian: Conan, starts at peace with Barbarians
Vibranium: T'Challa, units granted a promotion giving them better defensive capabilities

Why doesn't Sheherazade(from her on out to be known as Persian hottie) have diplo music?

Probably because Persian hottie's assigned XML audio tag got mixed up when I started reassigning audio for Persian Male Stripper's (Xerxes) music. It may have already been fixed, but I'll check it out nonetheless.

Dibukk
Oct 06, 2009, 08:28 AM
Great ideas!

Here are some of mine:

Conquista: El Cid, increases strength of units while fighting enemies having a different state religion (works only as long as you have a state religion)
Divine Blood: Huitzilopochtli, population can be sacrificed to hurry production even when Slavery isn't activated, lowers unhappiness created by human sacrifice when Slavery is activated
King of Kings: Ozymandias, Wonders are built faster
Le Roi Charmant: Prince Charming, increases relationship with all other empires
Monster Slayer: Beowulf, increases strength of units fighting unique barbarians like the Hydra

More to come.

cfkane
Oct 06, 2009, 10:45 AM
I'm not sure about the El Cid one. The Cid himself fought for both the Catholic Spanish and the Muslim Andalusians. The name "Cid" is derived from "sayyid", the Arabic for "lord". He had allies and enemies who were both Christian and Muslim, so it wouldn't seem right to make him into a religious crusader.

The Once and Future King: Arthur, receives the benefit of Hereditary Rule even when it isn't enabled.
Daughter of the Revolution: Wu Qinghua, Corporations have no effect
Built in a Day: Romulus and Remus, Settlers have an extra movement point
Big Block of Cheese: Bartlet, Not really sure what to make of this trait, but it's all I can think of for Bartlet at the moment. It's a reference to this episode of The West Wing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i9PAgJB7hA)

Dibukk
Oct 06, 2009, 12:06 PM
Nice ones! But I don't really get the "once and future king" reference.
Regarding Bartlet, I don't know if it's possible to be done but how about this one...
Sense of Humor: makes it easier to negotiate for peace

And some more:

Eugenics: Khan Singh, increases the birth rate for Great People with the invention of Biology
Fairy Queen: Gloriana, increases the production speed of Alliances and Alliance units
Mover of the Sun: Ra, Heredity Rule, Slavery and Organized Religion are available at the beginning of the game
Poseidon's Blessing: Atlas, water units have an extra movement point
Res Publica: Utopos, you get extra votes during international elections, guarantees eligibility for voting
This is Madness!: Xerxes, no resistance in recently captured cities
Trojan Horse: Agamemnon, adds another +10% to city attacks to each level of the promotion City Raider (it would be simply hilarious if there would a little Trojan Hourse graphic following the unit)

cfkane
Oct 06, 2009, 01:50 PM
Actually, I was thinking of using the Trojan Horse as a unit.

As for the Arthur quote, supposedly his gravestone reads "Here Lies Arthur, The Once and Future King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Once_and_Future_King)"

How about Bartlet for America: Universities and Hospitals are cheaper (Bartlet passed a Social Security reform bill and a bill to lower education costs)

Other ones:

First Prophet: Scudder, when a state religion spreads to a city, a temple and monastery are automatically created.
Evil Genius: Doom, sacrificing population gives a research boost for every population point lost
Orisha: Shango, temples increase production by a small amount (Ori, spiritual growth and Ashe, the will to create - I'm taking this literally as a bonus to production)
Kalachakra: Suchandra, a discount on research cost until the Renaissance.

And I would change Xerxes' trait to this:
1000 Nations, Infantry trains at 1.5 times regular speed.

The_J
Oct 06, 2009, 06:16 PM
I don't have much time atm, but some of the things i can do in python.
- peace with barbarians
- additional promotions
- building wonders faster (there's a tsentom1 wonder for that)
- increasing relationship (i've added some time ago a python modcomp for this to the database)
- no resistance (not sure)
- building buildings after religion spread

One or two things can be done with a xml bypass (+1 movement point for example), the other parts will require SDK changes, i guess.

Dumanios
Oct 06, 2009, 06:27 PM
Dweller of the Deep:Aquaman:Heroic units start with Merman ancestry(works like waterwalking from FfH)
Technique:Adenoid Hynkel:Free upgrades post Industrialism

cfkane
Oct 06, 2009, 07:08 PM
I don't have much time atm, but some of the things i can do in python.
- peace with barbarians
- additional promotions
- building wonders faster (there's a tsentom1 wonder for that)
- increasing relationship (i've added some time ago a python modcomp for this to the database)
- no resistance (not sure)
- building buildings after religion spread

One or two things can be done with a xml bypass (+1 movement point for example), the other parts will require SDK changes, i guess.

Actually I think we'll be okay on this one for the most part. Several of these traits have been done already in Rhye's and Fall. Plus, these won't be implemented until the update after the next one.

Dumanios
Oct 06, 2009, 07:22 PM
Dareai(Iranian) doesn't have diplo music either.This makes to counts of "musician's needed"
for Persian hottie and Iranian.

cfkane
Oct 06, 2009, 09:14 PM
Dareai(Iranian) doesn't have diplo music either.This makes to counts of "musician's needed"
for Persian hottie and Iranian.

That's odd. The XML for audio checks out on both of them. But you're right, neither has music. Let me dig around the files some more and I'll see what's going on.

Dumanios
Oct 06, 2009, 09:50 PM
Iranian can have the Iranian national anthem.

cfkane
Oct 06, 2009, 10:10 PM
Fixed it. The audio file was misnamed in AudioDefines - "Cyrus_Late" instead of "Cyrus_Late_Lp"

Dibukk
Oct 07, 2009, 09:36 AM
I would choose a different name for Hynkel's trait, maybe some kind of semi-German gibberish along the lines of Wiener Schnitzel und Sauerkraut or maybe something like Hail, Hynkel or Rule of the Double Cross

So, here's a quick list of all traits so far to keep an overview (I added some more ideas, those new ones are written bold):

Adenoid Hynkel - (Technique): free upgrades post Industrialism
Agamemnon - Warlord of the Achaeans: Heroes and Legendary Units are built faster
Arthur - The Once and Future King: receives the benefit of Hereditary Rule even when it isn't enabled
Arthur Curry - Dweller of the Deep: Heroes start with waterwalking
Atlas - Poseidon's Blessing: water units have an extra movement point
Beowulf - Monster Slayer: increases strength of units fighting unique barbarians like the Hydra
Big Brother - Two-Minute Hate: lowers war weariness
Chibinda Ilunga - Great Hunter: free Subdue Animal promotion for recon units
Conan - The Barbarian: starts at peace with Barbarians
Dracula - Vampiric: gives units a promotion that allows them to heal after a victorious combat
El Cid - The Lord, Master of Military Arts: Meele, Archery and Cavalry units receive experience faster
Fearless Leader -
Froschkönig -
Gilgamesh - Walls of Uruk: adds +20% defensive bonus against Melee, Archer and Cavalry Units to the capital
Gloriana - Fairy Queen: increases the production speed of Alliances and Alliance units
Haroun al-Rashid -
Hiawatha - The Great Peacemaker: better results from tribal villages
Huangdi -
Huitzilopochtli - Divine Blood: population can be sacrificed to hurry production even when Slavery isn't activated, lowers unhappiness created by human sacrifice when Slavery is activated
Ivan Durak - The Fool's Luck: you get an additional better solution for some of the special events
Jack Ryan - Executive Orders: lowers the cost of rushing production with gold
Jaffe Joffer -
Jed Bartlet - Bartlet for America: Universities and Hospitals are cheaper
Lear -
Khan Noonien Singh - Eugenics: increases the birth rate for Great People after the invention of Biology
Louis XVI -
Lucius Tiberius -
Macbeth -
Mahmoud Daryaei -
Manco Capac - Son of the Sun: Monuments and Terraces grant additionaly culture
Moe Hailstone -
Nehemiah Scudder - First Prophet: when a state religion spreads to a city, a temple and monastery are automatically created.
Oedipus -
Ozymandias - King of Kings: Wonders are built faster
Prince Charming - Le Roi Charmant: increases relationship with all other empires
Ra - Mover of the Sun: Heredity Rule, Slavery and Organized Religion are available at the beginning of the game
Rama - Avatar of Vishnu: you receive a (second) free missionary whenever you found a religion
Romulus and Remus - Built in a Day: Settlers have an extra movement point
Rufus T. Firefly -
Shango - Orisha: temples increase production
Sheherezade - Storyteller: Libraries grant happiness
Suchandra - Kalachakra: discount on research cost until the Renaissance
T'Challa - Vibranium: units granted a promotion giving them better defensive capabilities
Utopos - Res Publica: you get extra votes during international elections, guarantees eligibility for voting
Vathek -
Victor von Doom - Evil Genius: sacrificing population gives a research boost for every population point lost
Wu Qinghua - Daughter of the Revolution: Corporations have no effect
Xerxes - 1000 Nations: Infantry trains at 1.5 times regular speed
Yamato Takeru -

cfkane
Oct 07, 2009, 02:00 PM
All good. For the Ivan trait, I could probably write a few events that will occur only to him.

But let's keep in mind a lot of these are subject to change. I can think of quite a few of these traits that would require SDK changes. Since we don't have any SDK coders on our team, they probably won't make it in.

cfkane
Nov 02, 2009, 12:12 PM
I written up a new trait, Heroic, that gives all Hero units Combat 1 when built. This should open up a lot more trait combinations to allow for more leaders in the future.

I'm in the process of re-assigning traits to leaders, so expect to see a new version with these changes posted soon. I'll also be adding a new leader to the mix.

Farsight
Nov 21, 2009, 09:26 AM
My suggestion for an alternate France civ (this is allowed, right?)

FRANCE
Leader: Charlemagne (Her/Imp)
LU: Paladin (8 :strength:, starts with Shock & Celebrity I)
Superhero: Roland

Dumanios
Nov 21, 2009, 06:26 PM
My suggestions:

Canada

Led by:Stephen Abootman(South Park)
UU:Canada Corps(Infantry)
UB:Microwave Station(Broadcast Tower)
LU:Mountie
SH:Wolverine

Robotic Empire
Led by:GLaDOS
UU:Robotic Soldier(Mech Infantry)
UB:Control Tower(Broadcast Tower,No maintenance in city)
LU:Terminator
SH:Skynet

Mongolia
Led by:Etzel the Hun and Borat
LU:Hun Archer
SH:Gesar

Moogi
Nov 23, 2009, 06:35 AM
Mongolia
Led by:Etzel the Hun and Borat
LU:Hun Archer
SH:Gesar

Neither of those leaders are Mongolian, but I like the idea of making a civ to represent the Central Asian tribes. I also like your choice of leaders. I suggest adding Shan-Yu from Disney's Mulan, as well.

Also, I think Marvel Comics' Mandarin could work as a Superhero, since he is supposed to be a descendant of Genghis Khan (then again, so is .5% of everyone alive today, but still...).

Dibukk
Nov 23, 2009, 07:30 AM
Well, are T'Challa and Jaffe Joffer Zulu? Is Tschibinda Ilunga from Mali? I think sometimes you have to bend the rules a bit especially concering tribal societies like these. But I agree that the peoples of Central Asia deserve a place in this mod! Some ideas:

Possible Leaders:

Gesar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic of King Gesar) - Honestly, IMO King Gesar as the leader of a fictionalized Mongolia is as obvious as Genghis Khan for the real Mongols
Timur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_of_the_Turkic_and_Mongolian_peoples) - while being a historical ruler, too, there is a famous tale about Timur forging the world's first sword
Etzel the Hun - the Nibelungs' fictional counterpart of Attila... meh, a possibility
Shan Yu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan-Yu) - Moogi already mentioned him and I agree: he would be a great Central Asian leader
Borias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borias) - Central Asian warlord from from Xena, another great possibility
Tengri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengri) - the supreme deity of Tengriism (the main religion of Central Asia)
Bai-Ulgan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bai-Ulgan) - another major deity of Tengriism and possibly more likely to rule mortals directly than his divine father Tengri

Legendary Unit:

This one's tough. The horsemen are probably the best known part of Central Asian culture so I suggest we introduce a unit based on legendary horsemen. I propose the name Ülger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cliger) which is a general term given to tales and popular myths of the Mongols and Buryats of north-east Asia. I think this could be interpreted as "legendary hero".
If you want something else, here are some curiosities from Mongolian myths:

-Death Worm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_Death_Worm) - a 2 to 5 feet long cryptid worm capable of spitting deadly acid
-At-Beyi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_of_the_Turkic_and_Mongolian_peoples) - these "lords of horses" are mythological ancestors of the Mongolian horses and could become scouting units or Mares of Diomedes-like flesh eating horses
-Pitsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitsen) - a shapeshifting Siberian forest monster
-Zilant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilant) - something between a dragon and a wyvern from Tatar folklore

Regarding the Superhero, I think that Mandarin looks like a good choice.

Moogi
Nov 23, 2009, 10:00 AM
Well, are T'Challa and Jaffe Joffer Zulu? Is Tschibinda Ilunga from Mali? I think sometimes you have to bend the rules a bit especially concering tribal societies like these. But I agree that the peoples of Central Asia deserve a place in this mod! Some ideas:

Possible Leaders:

Gesar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic of King Gesar) - Honestly, IMO King Gesar as the leader of a fictionalized Mongolia is as obvious as Genghis Khan for the real Mongols
Etzel the Hun - the Nibelungs' fictional counterpart of Attila... meh, a possibility
Shan Yu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan-Yu) - Moogi already mentioned him and I agree: he would be a great Central Asian leader


Legendary Unit:

This one's tough. The horsemen are probably the best known part of Central Asian culture so I suggest we introduce a unit based on legendary horsemen. I propose the name Ülger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cliger) which is a general term given to tales and popular myths of the Mongols and Buryats of north-east Asia. I think this could be interpreted as "legendary hero".
If you want something else, here are some curiosities from Mongolian myths:

-Zilant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilant) - something between a dragon and a wyvern from Tatar folklore

Regarding the Superhero, I think that Mandarin looks like a good choice.

These are my preferences from your list. I hate to make cfkane make three more leaderheads, but this seems like a great area to explore with the mod.

Etzel was mentioned in one of the earlier pedias, so he's already in continuity.

EDIT: I just had an idea for a joke civ. You probably shouldn't include it, but I thought the idea was mildly amusing. I am referring, of course, to the Hobo Empire from John Hodgman's absurdist epic, The Areas of my Expertise. It would be led by Joey Stink-Eye Smiles, the last great hobo leader.

cfkane
Nov 23, 2009, 12:22 PM
You know, adding the Mongols back into the game could be a pretty good idea. I probably won't do anything with it yet, since I still want to focus on A) finishing up the last two leaderheads we need and B) rounding out the unique Superhero system.

I might add it in a future update along with some new leaders for other civs (now that we have the Heroic trait there's a lot of trait combinations freed up).

And in the far future, I'll probably add the Animal Empire (a combination of things like DC comics' Gorilla City, The Blazing World, Babar's Kingdom and several other sources) once I can get a solid UnitArtsyles set for it.

Moogi
Nov 23, 2009, 01:00 PM
You know, adding the Mongols back into the game could be a pretty good idea. I probably won't do anything with it yet, since I still want to focus on A) finishing up the last two leaderheads we need and B) rounding out the unique Superhero system.

I might add it in a future update along with some new leaders for other civs (now that we have the Heroic trait there's a lot of trait combinations freed up).

And in the far future, I'll probably add the Animal Empire (a combination of things like DC comics' Gorilla City, The Blazing World, Babar's Kingdom and several other sources) once I can get a solid UnitArtsyles set for it.

Only two more leaderheads? Who are they?

Also, once we get around to writing a pedia entry for the Animal Empire, it is imperative that we work in a reference to Chicken Run.

Dibukk
Nov 23, 2009, 02:13 PM
Only two more leaderheads? Who are they?

That would be Xerxes and Louis XVI. I'm really looking forward to see my favourite God-King!

Cfkane, looking into the Music folder I noticed there is a file entitled 'Luthor'. Is there a plan to add Lex Luthor as a (probably American) leader? (By the way, great choices of music)

On an unrelated topic, what's the status on your plan to add the Snow Queen (Sneedronningen) as a Norse leader?

johnny139
Nov 23, 2009, 02:30 PM
Cfkane, looking into the Music folder I noticed there is a file entitled 'Luthor'. Is there a plan to add Lex Luthor as a (probably American) leader? (By the way, great choices of music)

Huh, I was actually going to recommend him, but then I realized that not only does America have three leaders already, but they're all from the modern era, so he might not be the best choice. Though I certainly wouldn't complain about seeing him...

...also, Mongolia being re-added would be great. It's definitely a major group, both in the real world and in fiction. I'd also like to see Carthage with Dido, but, y'know, won't push my luck.

Moogi
Nov 23, 2009, 02:57 PM
So, where are all the other leaderheads? Aside from cfkane's, I mean. Are they all ones that were done by other users? If so, can someone show me where I can see them?

cfkane
Nov 23, 2009, 03:21 PM
That would be Xerxes and Louis XVI. I'm really looking forward to see my favourite God-King!

Cfkane, looking into the Music folder I noticed there is a file entitled 'Luthor'. Is there a plan to add Lex Luthor as a (probably American) leader? (By the way, great choices of music)

On an unrelated topic, what's the status on your plan to add the Snow Queen (Sneedronningen) as a Norse leader?

The Luthor music is actually a relic from an earlier version. I originally had Luthor as a leader for America (he was elected president in a Superman story arc), but I dropped him in favor of the three we have now. I did this mainly for continuity issues. DC comics' continuity is so mangled that they apparently have to have a Crisis just to kill off different one-shot issues and storylines that went nowhere.

And the Snow Queen is definitely being added, it's just that I have a lot I need to get done first both with the mod and in real life (end-of-term papers and whatnot).

Dibukk
Nov 27, 2009, 03:11 PM
Just recently, I realized that we forget one major subgenre of fiction: Hollow Earth. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth#Hollow_Earths_in_fiction) There are numerous novels, films, comics and so on, that take place (or at least mention) a subterrean continent. Just think of work such as Niels Klim's Underground Travels, Plutonia, The Smoky God and, probably the best known one, A Journey to the Center of the Earth.
Realizing this, I started this little project of designing a subterrean empire as an umbrella term for all these different worlds.

Here's what I have so far:

Name:
There are plenty of different underground worlds but I'd suggest one of the following as they seem to be the most important:
Agartha - Popular subject in Esotericism which is often related to the myth of Shangri-La. In our continuity, this could mean that the Shambhalese people send explorers inside the Hollow Earth who founded the city of Shamballah.
Pellucidar - Stone Age world from Tarzan novels by Edgar R. Burroughs. Populated by primitive tribes, species like the Ape Man and beasts such as dinosaurs and mammoths.
Skartaris - Hollow Earth fantasy setting from DC's comic Warlord. Once more, this is a world populated by primitive people of various levels of culture ranging from the primitive to medieval city states such as Shamballah.
Subterranea - Network of massive caves, passages, and tunnels from Marvel comics. Devided between the Moloids (mole people ruled by Mole Man) and the Lava Men.

Leader:
Honestly, no clue. Mole Man would be a possibility but I'd prefer him as a superhero. Tyrannus from Marvel Comics might do as well.

Unique Unit:
Much Hollow Earth fiction depicts the subterrean world as prehistoric including extinct creatures such as dinosaurs. Thus, I suggest to replace war elephants with war mammoths.

Legendary Unit:
I've got several ideas for this one:
Marvel's Subterranea introduces interesting races such as the Moloids ("Mole People") and the Lava Men. I guess both would fit well as LUs.
Pellucidar from the Tarzan novels is inhabited by prehistoric creatures such as dinosaurs and mammoths as well s ficitonal species such as sentien ape-like creatures and the Mahars, intelligent flying reptiles resembling rhamphorhynchus with dangerous psychic powers. These would be nice LUs, I suppose.
While dwarves are already used as Alliance units, how about underground-dwelling Goblins as depicted in The Prince and the Goblin?

Superhero:
Mole Man seems to be an obvious choice. Still, if you want others how about Deimos, the Warlord, Tyrannus or the Balrog?

Some cities:
Agartha, Tsath, New Shamballah, Mizora, Og, Arq

The subterrean worlds I've found so far:
Agartha, Pellucidar (Tarzan), Skartaris (DC Comics), Subterranea (Marvel Comics), K'n-yan (Cthulhu Mythos), Pluto (A Journey to the Center of the Earth), Plutonia, Arq (Arqtiq), abandoned dwarven fortresses (Lord of the Rings), world of the Fattypuffs and Thinifers, Lower Elements (Artemis Fowl), Empire of Alsondons, Ruffal (La vie, les avanture, and le voyage de Groenland du Révérend Pčre Cordelier Pierre de Mesange), realm of Malkariss (Mattimeo), Arachna (Spider Riders), Og (The Secret World of Og), Atavatabar (The Goddess of Atavatabar ), realm of the Goblins (The Prince and the Goblin), Vril society (The Coming Race), Kosekin Country (A Strange Manuscript Found in a Copper Cylinder) and Hellmouth (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

If you're interested in this topic, this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_fiction) should proof useful.

So, what do you think?


PS: On a completely unrelated topic, you might want to check out this MMOPRG called The Secret World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The Secret World). It features a setting that is somehow similiar to what we do here, only it revolves mainly around conspiracies and myths.

cfkane
Nov 27, 2009, 04:25 PM
It's an interesting idea, certainly. Though I might have the leader be one of the Vril from The Coming Race.

Still, I'm not sure how well this can be worked in. All of the other civs at least live on the Earth's surface, so I don't know how well a subterranean race could be represented in civ without some MAJOR changes to the game core. That said, aspects of the Hollow Earth idea can certainly be worked in. I've had some ideas about an Alliance wonder for the Vril, and once I get around to adding World Improvements (something I've had in my mind for a long time), adding openings to the Hollow Earth could add an interesting aspect.


Oh, and I've changed my mind about including Lord of the Rings. The throwaway reference to it in the Scudder pedia just opened up a whole can of worms. I don't think I can reconcile the very deep and complex history of Middle Earth with our own earth's prehistory.

Dibukk
Nov 28, 2009, 06:14 AM
I think we can avoid problems by making the Hollow Earth another normal civ. Civilization is no reflection of history but more like a what-if scenario. The same thing applys Fictionalization. You can play the USA during the Stone Age or lead a present-day Inca empire. You can create a Native American nation that constructs wonders such as Alkoremi and Statue of Judgment while commanding Allan Quartermain and Fu Manchu. Atlantis isn't restricted to an island and Aquaman doesn't lead an underwater empire, neither. I seriously think we can take the liberty of using Hollow Earth fiction as a normal civ. Well, we might be able to give them a certain underground flair by adding unique images of cities that look like cave entrances or molehills.

Regarding the civ's name, I think Agartha would be the best term. Subterranea refers to a large system of tunnels and caves while Skartais and Pellucidar are the large cave surrounding the core of the Earth. In contrary, Agartha is an umbrella term coresponding to all subterrean worlds.

I did some research and I have to say it's hard to find infos about the Vril-ya as there are not only the fictional subterrean master race but also a secret society and several conspiracy theories. Are there any named Vril-ya that could become a leader?

What do you think about the UU, the LU and the Superhero?

cfkane
Nov 28, 2009, 11:01 AM
Well, okay. But there are still a lot of barriers to getting something like that done. For one thing, I don't think I'll do it without proper artwork. One thing the mod still lacks is someone on hand who can churn out units and buildings. A lot of the art work now is still only placeholders. Having a whole new art set would do it justice, but I'm still unsure of how to best represent a Hollow Earth civ when they're not even shown as being under the Earth. For something like the Animal empire idea all that's holding me back is a good unitmaker who can flesh out the artstyles. For the Hollow Earth, damn I'd need to see concept sketches or something.

Farsight
Nov 30, 2009, 12:12 PM
Just recently, I realized that we forget one major subgenre of fiction: Hollow Earth. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth#Hollow_Earths_in_fiction) There are numerous novels, films, comics and so on, that take place (or at least mention) a subterrean continent. Just think of work such as Niels Klim's Underground Travels, Plutonia, The Smoky God and, probably the best known one, A Journey to the Center of the Earth.
Realizing this, I started this little project of designing a subterrean empire as an umbrella term for all these different worlds.

Here's what I have so far:

Name:
There are plenty of different underground worlds but I'd suggest one of the following as they seem to be the most important:
Agartha - Popular subject in Esotericism which is often related to the myth of Shangri-La. In our continuity, this could mean that the Shambhalese people send explorers inside the Hollow Earth who founded the city of Shamballah.
Pellucidar - Stone Age world from Tarzan novels by Edgar R. Burroughs. Populated by primitive tribes, species like the Ape Man and beasts such as dinosaurs and mammoths.
Skartaris - Hollow Earth fantasy setting from DC's comic Warlord. Once more, this is a world populated by primitive people of various levels of culture ranging from the primitive to medieval city states such as Shamballah.
Subterranea - Network of massive caves, passages, and tunnels from Marvel comics. Devided between the Moloids (mole people ruled by Mole Man) and the Lava Men.

Leader:
Honestly, no clue. Mole Man would be a possibility but I'd prefer him as a superhero. Tyrannus from Marvel Comics might do as well.

Unique Unit:
Much Hollow Earth fiction depicts the subterrean world as prehistoric including extinct creatures such as dinosaurs. Thus, I suggest to replace war elephants with war mammoths.

Legendary Unit:
I've got several ideas for this one:
Marvel's Subterranea introduces interesting races such as the Moloids ("Mole People") and the Lava Men. I guess both would fit well as LUs.
Pellucidar from the Tarzan novels is inhabited by prehistoric creatures such as dinosaurs and mammoths as well s ficitonal species such as sentien ape-like creatures and the Mahars, intelligent flying reptiles resembling rhamphorhynchus with dangerous psychic powers. These would be nice LUs, I suppose.
While dwarves are already used as Alliance units, how about underground-dwelling Goblins as depicted in The Prince and the Goblin?

Superhero:
Mole Man seems to be an obvious choice. Still, if you want others how about Deimos, the Warlord, Tyrannus or the Balrog?

Some cities:
Agartha, Tsath, New Shamballah, Mizora, Og, Arq

The subterrean worlds I've found so far:
Agartha, Pellucidar (Tarzan), Skartaris (DC Comics), Subterranea (Marvel Comics), K'n-yan (Cthulhu Mythos), Pluto (A Journey to the Center of the Earth), Plutonia, Arq (Arqtiq), abandoned dwarven fortresses (Lord of the Rings), world of the Fattypuffs and Thinifers, Lower Elements (Artemis Fowl), Empire of Alsondons, Ruffal (La vie, les avanture, and le voyage de Groenland du Révérend Pčre Cordelier Pierre de Mesange), realm of Malkariss (Mattimeo), Arachna (Spider Riders), Og (The Secret World of Og), Atavatabar (The Goddess of Atavatabar ), realm of the Goblins (The Prince and the Goblin), Vril society (The Coming Race), Kosekin Country (A Strange Manuscript Found in a Copper Cylinder) and Hellmouth (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

If you're interested in this topic, this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_fiction) should proof useful.

So, what do you think?


PS: On a completely unrelated topic, you might want to check out this MMOPRG called The Secret World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The Secret World). It features a setting that is somehow similiar to what we do here, only it revolves mainly around conspiracies and myths.

Gah... I have a book all about the Hollow Earth, though I forgot a lot of the information. How about:

Leader: John Symmes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cleves_Symmes,_Jr.), who popularised the idea of a Hollow Earth. He believed that there were two great holes at the poles, from where you can go through to the Edenic Paradise that was within. There's another leader canidate from a novel that I read about in the same book, though I have to go back to find it.

UU: The War Mammoth sounds like a good idea.

UB: ???

LU: ???

SU: ???

To cfkane:

Here's a good portrait of Louis XVI:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Louis16-1775.jpg/471px-Louis16-1775.jpg

Maybe a leaderhead based of the English King from Colonization? Or maybe Louis XIV?

In addition, are you thinking about my idea to add Charlemagne to France?

cfkane
Nov 30, 2009, 12:54 PM
Actually, I'm just about done with Louis and Louis. They should be released soon.

I don't think I'll add Charlemagne to France. I know how important he is to the history and all, but I'm hesitant to add anyone who isn't wrapped up in a big ol' ball of fiction. People like Louis and Haroun Al-Raschid were kind of cop-outs when I was planning.

And the more I think about it, the less plausible a Hollow Earth themed civ sounds. It seems like a concept best introduced by way of a special barbarian unit or Alliance or world improvement than a full blown "lives on the land just like everyone else" civ.

Dibukk
Dec 01, 2009, 07:35 AM
And the more I think about it, the less plausible a Hollow Earth themed civ sounds. It seems like a concept best introduced by way of a special barbarian unit or Alliance or world improvement than a full blown "lives on the land just like everyone else" civ.

I understand. Still, the Hollow Earth fiction is far to rich to be left out entirely. How about adding entrences to the Hollow Earth as world improvements? While these grant a great yield at the same time you have to risk being attacked by Mole People or other subterrean beasts.
Regarding Alliances, their are many different people that could become worthy allies such as the Mahars of Pellucidar, the barbarians of Skartaris, the Arq people from the novel Arqtiq, the mole-like Moloids from Marvel Comics and the death-worshipping Kosekin from A Strange Manuscript Found in a Copper Cylinder.

cfkane
Dec 01, 2009, 10:30 AM
I understand. Still, the Hollow Earth fiction is far to rich to be left out entirely. How about adding entrences to the Hollow Earth as world improvements? While these grant a great yield at the same time you have to risk being attacked by Mole People or other subterrean beasts.
Regarding Alliances, their are many different people that could become worthy allies such as the Mahars of Pellucidar, the barbarians of Skartaris, the Arq people from the novel Arqtiq, the mole-like Moloids from Marvel Comics and the death-worshipping Kosekin from A Strange Manuscript Found in a Copper Cylinder.

I know. Once the superheroes are in place we can start looking at how viable a World Improvement system would be.

Farsight
Dec 03, 2009, 06:20 PM
Actually, I'm just about done with Louis and Louis. They should be released soon.

I don't think I'll add Charlemagne to France. I know how important he is to the history and all, but I'm hesitant to add anyone who isn't wrapped up in a big ol' ball of fiction. People like Louis and Haroun Al-Raschid were kind of cop-outs when I was planning.

What? Charlemagne "I-triggered-the-series-of-events-that-led-to-France's-National-Epic-and-Star-of-the-literary-cycle-that-once-was-even-MORE-well-read-than-the-stories-of-King-Arthur-and-One-of-the-Three-Christian-Knights-who-embodied-the-ideals-of-Chivalry" isn't worthy of this mod because he isn't ingrained into Culture? What evil parallel universe do you live in? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_cycle)

cfkane
Dec 03, 2009, 08:25 PM
When did I ever say.... oh hell, I give in. :mad:

Dibukk
Dec 04, 2009, 06:52 AM
However, you can't deny that Charlemagne is a historical character. While he has been prominent in fiction, too, there are plenty of .... more fictional leaders for France. Just think of the Count of Monte-Christo or Louis XIV's identical twin brother Philippe (better known as the Man with the Iron Mask).
Actually, I think early/medieval France is already represented well by Prince Charming and let's not forget that every leader should represent an age or an aspect of a civilization: King Arthur fits to early England, Gloriana corresponds with the British Empire and Big Brother represents modern-day Great Britain after the monarchy was replaced.

I don't think I'll add Charlemagne to France. I know how important he is to the history and all, but I'm hesitant to add anyone who isn't wrapped up in a big ol' ball of fiction. People like Louis and Haroun Al-Raschid were kind of cop-outs when I was planning.

Cop-outs, you say? Does that meen that there are plans to replace leaders such as Louis and Haroun as you did it with Ivan? In case that's your plan, the only fictional leader representing French Absolutism I can think of is Philippe (mentioend above).
Additionally, you can fictionalize leaders by merging them with a similar fictional character such as El Cid with Fierabas and Haroun Al-Rashid with Haroun El-Poussah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haroun_El_Poussah).

cfkane
Dec 04, 2009, 12:33 PM
Well, Louis I want to keep, partly because I like how the LH came out and partly because of my love of Mel Brooks in general.

Though I'm not sure about Al-Poussah. Raschid's Arabia is meant to represent the early Caliphate and the fantastical tales surrounding it like the ones from 1001 Nights. But Poussah seems a bit too, shall we say, goofy to represent that sense of wonder.

Dibukk
Dec 04, 2009, 03:10 PM
Well, Louis I want to keep, partly because I like how the LH came out and partly because of my love of Mel Brooks in general.

Though I'm not sure about Al-Poussah. Raschid's Arabia is meant to represent the early Caliphate and the fantastical tales surrounding it like the ones from 1001 Nights. But Poussah seems a bit too, shall we say, goofy to represent that sense of wonder.

I agree, there only similiarity is the similar names and the position as a Caliph. Nevertheless, I could imagine an elderly Raschid who became obese, lazy and somewhat naive because of one or two hits on the head by a flying carpet. And voila, there is Al-Poussah! Well, that's of no importance right now. Let's wait until someone is gonna write the actual pedia for Haroun.

Dumanios
Dec 04, 2009, 03:13 PM
Will we be adding leaders to all of the 1-leader empires if possible?We may have to merge cultures.

Like we could use Napaloni for Rome.

Also,what will we do with the leaders that don't have unique music yet?And the early and middle diplomusics?You could use the Iroquois and Apache diplomusic from colonization for Hiawatha and Winnetou respectively.And there is the Extra mod to consider,there I found music for Jaffe Joffer,which is Haile Selassie's late diplomusic.Jaffe and Selassie are also alike since they are both super-rich rulers of African nations while the common people are very poor.They also were both aligned with the USA.

cfkane
Dec 04, 2009, 03:28 PM
No. I just thought it would be easier to have one song for the leader and not variants of the song for each era. It keeps the file size down and prevents it from getting needlessly complicated.

Dumanios
Dec 04, 2009, 08:19 PM
They don't even need to be variants in my opinion.I'm using Aggy's(Agamemnon) diplomusic here in my mod as his late music after music from Extra.And I'm thinking of adding Putin to my mod with FR's(Besstrashniy) diplomusic as his middle or late.

Moogi
Dec 08, 2009, 07:01 AM
Just thought of yet another civ idea. This one is a real-world civ, and I'm sure that there already exist a few mods that feature it already.

Polynesia
Leaders: Mau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_%28novel%29), Jacob (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jacob)
UU and UB: I'm sure there's an existing Polynesia civ on the Downloads database that you can use for these
LU: I'm not sure. Maybe something from Polynesian mythology? I'll have to look something up.
Superhero: The Monster (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_monster)

johnny139
Dec 11, 2009, 11:32 PM
Had some free time, and I was thinkin' up some more about Carthage. While Dido and such is a major component of the Aeneid, and there's the mythology of the region rooting back to Phoenicia, there's not too much real "fiction" around it. So, if it IS added in, I'm thinkin', it should really encompass all of Northern Africa in that region, along with its Phoenician roots. Not to an extreme extent, but, as far as fiction goes, y'know?

For example, the Lotus-Eaters from the Odyssey, the marriage between the Princess of Naples and the King of Tunisia from the Tempest, up to modern day Islamic stuff.

LEADER: Dido (Financial/Heroic) ~ Carthage was founded as a colony, the Phoenicians were well known for their trade, and Dido was wife of a VERY rich king - so, Financial. Heroic because she's from an epic and was closely related to Aeneas, an epic hero. Both are open to change, though.
UNIQUE UNIT/BUILDING: Same as regular Civilization.
LEGENDARY UNIT: Perhaps the use of Ba'al (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%27al) as a generic term for "lord?" In Semitic tradition, if Wikipedia is accurate, Ba'al is a generic term for Canaanite deities, and is often used interchangeably with high-ranking officials and such in cities. Phoenicia was in Canaan, and Carthage took the same traditions... so, there you go. It's tenuous, but I can't really find anything else from the period. However, like I said, going into more general North African stuff could open some doors.
SUPERHERO: Mohammed Ibn Bornu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadre_(comics)#Cadre_of_the_Immortal) ~ I think he's from further south than traditional Carthage's region, but... North African superheroes are kinda hard to find! And he rides on a metal horse. Which is awesome.

...and on an unrelated note, Korobeniki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korobeiniki) (or the Tetris adaptation) MUST be used as Ivan the Fool's music, if you're using him for Russia. Not only is it a famous mark on pop culture, but it's about a poor peddler and his romance, which is pretty common in Ivan stories, if I recall correctly. Too perfect not to fit.

cfkane
Dec 12, 2009, 09:52 AM
Coo. The ideas for Polynesia and Carthage seem pretty solid. Still, I doubt I'll have time to add them any time soon.

Then again, that's what modmods are for ;)

Garbage Cannon
Dec 12, 2009, 11:45 AM
I have an idea for a civ. Rapture of Bioshock fame.
Leaders: Andrew Ryan(Phi/Ind), Frank Fontaine(Agg/Fin)
UB: Bathysphere/Rapture Metro(Replaces Mass Transit): :health: from water tiles, or :commerce: bonus from trade with own cities.
UU:Big Daddy(Replaces Marine)
LU:?
SU:?

cfkane
Dec 12, 2009, 01:20 PM
Rapture may work better as a wonder than a civ

Dumanios
Jan 01, 2010, 08:02 PM
The Circle of Ossus. (If it could be a civ.)

Led by: Alain Magnan and Warwick
UU: Doppelsoldner (Replaces Maceman, can cause collateral damage)
UB: Fortress (Replaces Castle, bigger defense bonus
LU: Boneguard (12 Strength, 1 Move, Requires Civil Service and Iron, is three Boneguard swordsmen in Medieval era, then a Boneguard swordsman and two boneguard musketmen after, upgrades to Infantry)
SH: Beaumont would probably work. (He is pretty damn hard to kill, he is like the explorer of AOE 3, He doesn't die in gameplay.)

johnny139
Jan 27, 2010, 05:04 PM
I've been thinking about a "Genoshan Empire" - y'know, based on Magneto's island from X-Men. Not particularly for Genosha, but more as the idea of a sovereign mutant/"special" state. Genosha is the major example, but I recall the Illuminati (the Marvel version, not the real one) discussed creating an independent superhero nation, the recent arc of Heroes has Samuel Sullivan wanting to create a homeland for superpowered people, and in Shadowrun, the new elves and such form governments.

To be honest I'm not sure it's really feasible, and it would make a REALLY weird empire, but, it's an interesting concept, at the very least. :dunno:

cfkane
Jan 27, 2010, 10:25 PM
I'm not sure about that.

When I added the new civs I was mainly looking for nations with a lot of works attributed to them, or with a lot of detail put into their structure. Atlantis is one of the most commonly invoked fictional civilizations in the Western canon, as is Shambhala for the East. Transylvania conjures up a lot of lore spanning centuries, and Hyborea is a very vast and detailed world in itself. As for Freedo-Moronika, it's built from hundreds of different slivers of civilizations built into a whole. Genosha, really, is fairly confined to the X-Men series.

Mainly, I'm interested in civilizations with enough background to fill a real civilization.

Farsight
Feb 06, 2010, 08:32 PM
How about Asterix as the 3rd Celtic leader? With some tweaks, MethylOrange's Vercingetorix (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292999&highlight=Vercingetorix) leaderhead would work well as him.

Dibukk
Feb 07, 2010, 10:04 AM
How about Asterix as the 3rd Celtic leader? With some tweaks, MethylOrange's Vercingetorix (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292999&highlight=Vercingetorix) leaderhead would work well as him.

I'm not sure about Asterix, but I agree that the Celts need another leader. Lear and Macbeth are great leaders, but both of them were from the British Isles and thus the entire continental Celts are not represented. Furthermore, the Celtic LH, the Fianna, are Irish and thus the only part of the Celtic civ representing continental Europe is X-O Manowar. And he is, in fact, Germanic.
Thus I think we really need a continental Celtic leader, possibly a Gaul. As much as I like the Asterix comics, Asterix himself is no leader but a hero. However, I could see Chief Vitalstatistix as a Celtic leader. As an alternative I think of Bran Mak Morn, the last king of the Picts from Conan the Barbarian's creator Robert E. Howard. Or maybe a character from Katharine Kerr's Deverry cycle? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_in_the_Deverry_cycle)

thomas.berubeg
Feb 09, 2010, 11:38 PM
Should be the French name, though: (Chef) Abraracourcix

cfkane
Mar 09, 2010, 09:17 PM
I can't believe I only now know about this guy: Sundiata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Sundiata).

He would make a much better leader for the Mali than Ilunga. I'll probably wait to add him though.

Dibukk
Apr 04, 2010, 05:06 PM
After admiring cfkane's recently posted SMAC leaders I just have to wonder: why haven't we thought of adding one of them to Fictionalization? I mean, our timeline goes to 2100 and that's when the starship Unity landed on Chiron. So we could add a leader from Alpha Centauri but focus on his time on Earth and his travell to outer space and not on him colonizing Chiron - similar to what we did to Khan Singh.

Now, if we are going to add a leader from SMAC it's important that he (or she) isn't powerful only on Planet but already on Earth. For instance, back on Earth Santiago and Zakharov were just a general and a scientist. Yes, they both were powerful and influentian but still, they were no national leaders. Maybe they could be added as a Great Person? Similarly, Miriam Godwinson was a woman living in Gilead and thus just wasn't able to lead. Lady Skye could be easily used as the prime minister of Free Scotland, but without a Scottish civ that doesn't make much sense.

Thus the only three leaders (I'm intentionally excluding the addon) that strike me as interesting for the mod are Yang for China, Morgan for the Zulu or Pravin Lal for India. I'd gladly use Yang to depict our version of 21st century China (the collaps of the PRC, the UFAR, Mars program, militarization and struggle for resources, etc.) However, with Liu Bei their are already three Chinese leaders. A shame. Morgan would be interesting, too. After all there is much stuff about near future Africa, so his pedia should be quite easily write-able. And while, in fact, on Earth he is "merely" a buisnessman I think we could make him the CEO/leader of one of Shadowrun's African corporate nations. And Pravin Lal, well, frankly I'm not overly fond of that one - just reminds me way too much of Khan, you know?.

Speaking of SMAC, we could definitly use Alpha Centauri's tech quotes for the mod. Here, how about one of those?

Nuclear Power:
"The substructure of the universe regresses infinitely towards smaller and smaller components. Behind atoms we find electrons, and behind electrons, quarks. Each layer unraveled reveals new secrets, but also new mysteries." - Prokhor Zakharov

Aeronautics:
"In one moment, Earth; in the next, Heaven." - Prokhor Zakharov

Fiber optics:
"We have reached an informational threshold which can only be crossed by harnessing the speed of light directly. The quickest computations require the fastest possible particles moving along the shortest paths. Since the capability now exists to take our information directly from photons traveling molecular paths, the final act of the information revolution will soon be upon us." - Prokhor Zakharov
OR
"Important, yes. Critical, absolutely! I would go so far as to say that super conducting fiber alone makes our present economy possible." - Nwabudike Morgan

Biological Warfare:
"Man has killed man from the beginning of time, and each new frontier has brought new ways and new places to die. Why should the future be different?" - Corazón Santiago


Anyway, those were my ideas. What do you think?

johnny139
Apr 05, 2010, 02:25 PM
I can't believe I only now know about this guy: Sundiata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Sundiata).

He would make a much better leader for the Mali than Ilunga. I'll probably wait to add him though.

Y'know, speaking semi-mythological figures, technically, Ragnar Lodbrok is among them. So you could port him over from the base game, really.

I've been pondering about a second leader for Japan recently - and I have a few ideas, though they stretch the definition of "leader" and "Japan" - and I thought to my self, hey, why not Amaterasu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu), patron goddess and forbearer of the Imperial Family of Japan? And, on that train of thought, why are we short on gods?

We have Ra for Egypt, but it's not the "real" Ra. We have Rama and Gilgamesh and Manco Capac, who are god-kings of sorts, so they kinda count. And we have Shango for the Mali, who is, well, a god, plain and simple. But I mean, like, Zeus of Greece and Poseidon of Atlantis and Odin of the Vikings, who frankly seem like no-brainers, and, if I recall correctly, already have leaderheads and everything.

So, did you consciously avoid using deities like that, or, y'know, something else?

(Oh, and also, I was thinking that Theseus [founder of democracy in Athens and thus all around the world] would make for a good Greek leader, too. Maybe.)

Dibukk
Apr 06, 2010, 03:02 AM
Y'know, speaking semi-mythological figures, technically, Ragnar Lodbrok is among them. So you could port him over from the base game, really.

I've been pondering about a second leader for Japan recently - and I have a few ideas, though they stretch the definition of "leader" and "Japan" - and I thought to my self, hey, why not Amaterasu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu), patron goddess and forbearer of the Imperial Family of Japan? And, on that train of thought, why are we short on gods?

We have Ra for Egypt, but it's not the "real" Ra. We have Rama and Gilgamesh and Manco Capac, who are god-kings of sorts, so they kinda count. And we have Shango for the Mali, who is, well, a god, plain and simple. But I mean, like, Zeus of Greece and Poseidon of Atlantis and Odin of the Vikings, who frankly seem like no-brainers, and, if I recall correctly, already have leaderheads and everything.

So, did you consciously avoid using deities like that, or, y'know, something else?

(Oh, and also, I was thinking that Theseus [founder of democracy in Athens and thus all around the world] would make for a good Greek leader, too. Maybe.)

The problem is that not every god qualifies as a ruler. For instance, the Greek gods did not sit on a throne somewhere in Athens and command the Greeks like a king does. In fact, most of the time they were just there, letting humanity develope, demanging a bit of worship and occasionally messing up with antiquity by starting a war or two.
Totally different are, for instance, the Egyptian gods: it is part of Egyptian mythology that first Ra, then Osiris, then briefly Seth and in the end Horus ruled as the first divine pharaohs. Similarly the Aztec deity Huitzilopochtli (you forgot that one, by the way) ruled the Aztecs in Aztlan before he led them to Tenochtitlan.

Anyway, if we want an acient Japanese ruler, why not Jimmu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmu), the first emperor of Japan?

cfkane
Apr 06, 2010, 06:34 AM
Well, if I were to add a second Japanese leader I'd probably go with a more modern character, preferably something out of an anime. I'm not an Otaku, but still, it's a pretty influential culture that so far is a bit underrepresented.

Data662
Apr 06, 2010, 07:39 AM
Add some Mel Brooks stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe have King Roland as King of the Druids.

cfkane
Apr 06, 2010, 02:35 PM
Brooks?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13733

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/louis_mel_portrait_wP1.jpg

He's been in the mod for a while

johnny139
Apr 06, 2010, 02:41 PM
Well, if I were to add a second Japanese leader I'd probably go with a more modern character, preferably something out of an anime. I'm not an Otaku, but still, it's a pretty influential culture that so far is a bit underrepresented.

See, that's exactly what I was thinking and what lead me to Amaterasu (eventually I got to thinking about Okami which is one awesome game). So, I poured through my collection of Japanese media and tried to find some sort of modern leader, to fit with all of Japan's great sci-fi and giant monsters and robots.

Would you believe I couldn't find any?

I looked at Dragon Ball Z, which has a lot of potential leaders, I think - but none of them are really "leaders," so to speak. There's Kami, who is God of the Earth, but he's not quite a ruler and not specifically Japanese. Hercule/Mr. Satan isn't elected or anything, but he IS a national figure. They name schools after him and such. Or you could go with Piccolo Daimao, who took over the world briefly from the King of the World. You could go with that guy but he's only in, like, one chapter, and he's a dog, and it's weird. Then there's Emperor Pilaf or the Ox King or what have you, but they're more like feudal lords than anything else.

Maybe the Hokage from Naruto? More of a feudal lord, too. Gundam has a lot of leaders, but none of them are really from Japan, or even Earth. Rurouni Kenshin? Shishio, maybe, but his attempted coup was foiled. You could try and find semi-mythological characters like King Enma who are common in Japanese movies and games and shows, but they're not quite rulers, either.

So, eventually I went back to the start, and looked at Ghost in the Shell. It's a pretty major series, and we already have it involved in the timeline, if not in the physical game itself. The series has Yoko Kayabuki, Japan's first female Prime Minister. I could see her being expanded into a more major figure, considering she was in charge during the 2030s, which as far as our timeline goes, would be the period in which the GUNDAMs were devoloped and there was all sorts of wars and other interesting stuff.

Of course, I don't know how this factors into the Shadowrun timeline, which I think has the empire returning way beforehand, but you could probably reconcile the two without much hassle.

And of course it's more of a "down-the-line" addition, too. More pressing matters, of course.

cfkane
Apr 06, 2010, 02:50 PM
Yeah. I'm actually sitting on a workable 6.0 version right now. I'm just having trouble getting all the new artwork packed and usable to upload it.

Though to be honest, I'm not planning on adding much else after this version. I mean, I'll still support it and patch it, and I still encourage support for it, but progress on this mod is winding down for me.

Moogi
Apr 07, 2010, 10:06 AM
Yeah. I'm actually sitting on a workable 6.0 version right now. I'm just having trouble getting all the new artwork packed and usable to upload it.

Though to be honest, I'm not planning on adding much else after this version. I mean, I'll still support it and patch it, and I still encourage support for it, but progress on this mod is winding down for me.

:mad: How dare you have better things to do with your time! Don't make me kidnap you and force you to do mod work 24/7! I know where you live! Well, I know which planet you're on, at any rate. That's as good a start as any.

But, seriously, I think the more appropriate smily would be :cry: But at least we'll have more or less a complete game by the next version- give or take a few patches and pedias.

cfkane
Apr 07, 2010, 12:43 PM
Well, as I said, I'll still support this mod. I still like seeing new pedias come in, and I still plan to do stuff for the modding community, though mainly with leaderheads.

I'm just not planning on making anymore huge changes to the gameplay is all. The Superhero system will be the last major thing to be added. It won't be finished completely - there's still plenty of artwork and text to be done, but the core of the game will be there.

Of course, I'm not in any way discouraging modmods... ;)

johnny139
Apr 07, 2010, 02:22 PM
Mmm. Otherthan the Superhero system and some of those late-game barbarians you mentioned (Martians, Skynet), I can't think of any real major gameplay additions. A new leader or wonder here or there seems fair enough.

MadmanOfALeader
Apr 07, 2010, 08:53 PM
A modmod with new civs wouldn't be a bad idea. I know Canada, Israel and Poland can be added.

Moogi
Apr 08, 2010, 10:49 AM
A modmod with new civs wouldn't be a bad idea. I know Canada, Israel and Poland can be added.

And Polynesia, and Hollow Earth, and Mongolia, and...

I think I'll have to expand the timeline to include modmods, if we have enough of them.

Alsark
May 31, 2010, 03:39 PM
See, that's exactly what I was thinking and what lead me to Amaterasu (eventually I got to thinking about Okami which is one awesome game). So, I poured through my collection of Japanese media and tried to find some sort of modern leader, to fit with all of Japan's great sci-fi and giant monsters and robots.

Would you believe I couldn't find any?

I looked at Dragon Ball Z, which has a lot of potential leaders, I think - but none of them are really "leaders," so to speak. There's Kami, who is God of the Earth, but he's not quite a ruler and not specifically Japanese. Hercule/Mr. Satan isn't elected or anything, but he IS a national figure. They name schools after him and such. Or you could go with Piccolo Daimao, who took over the world briefly from the King of the World. You could go with that guy but he's only in, like, one chapter, and he's a dog, and it's weird. Then there's Emperor Pilaf or the Ox King or what have you, but they're more like feudal lords than anything else.

Maybe the Hokage from Naruto? More of a feudal lord, too. Gundam has a lot of leaders, but none of them are really from Japan, or even Earth. Rurouni Kenshin? Shishio, maybe, but his attempted coup was foiled. You could try and find semi-mythological characters like King Enma who are common in Japanese movies and games and shows, but they're not quite rulers, either.

So, eventually I went back to the start, and looked at Ghost in the Shell. It's a pretty major series, and we already have it involved in the timeline, if not in the physical game itself. The series has Yoko Kayabuki, Japan's first female Prime Minister. I could see her being expanded into a more major figure, considering she was in charge during the 2030s, which as far as our timeline goes, would be the period in which the GUNDAMs were devoloped and there was all sorts of wars and other interesting stuff.

Of course, I don't know how this factors into the Shadowrun timeline, which I think has the empire returning way beforehand, but you could probably reconcile the two without much hassle.

And of course it's more of a "down-the-line" addition, too. More pressing matters, of course.

Hm... Light Yagami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Yagami) was pretty close to becoming "God of the New World", and he considered himself to be a god regardless (as did many others). So that would make him a leader... kind of. Plus having Death Note references would be absolutely awesome.

Farsight
Jul 16, 2010, 03:49 PM
How about an Ethiopian civ, led by Prester John? He seemed to have been a pretty important figure in Medieval European legends. Zara Yaqob was also believed to been him, so there's also no need to create a new leaderhead.

Dracosolon
Aug 22, 2010, 04:26 AM
Hi! For the French Superhero, i've think to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdupont

Xenotaris
Aug 23, 2010, 12:43 AM
Umbrella Corporation Civ

Leader: Ozwell E. Spencer, James Marcus, and Edward Ashford.

Special Unit: B.O.Ws (Zombies, Hunters, Tyrants, Chimera, and the others)

Super Hero: Albert Wesker, Alexia Ashford, and William G-mutant
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TriCell Civ

Leader: Albert Wesker and Excella

Special Unit: Majini

Super Hero: P-30 thralls
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Los Illumados Civ

Leader: Osmand Saddler

Special Units: Garandos

Super Hero: Mendez and Salazarr


just brainstorming and maybe you can also feature non-super hero units like fall of heaven.

http://residentevil.wikia.com/Resident_Evil_Wiki

PS. I recommend NOT using Alice, she is not a real Resident Evil/Biohazard character.

Dumanios
Oct 02, 2010, 08:14 PM
I was not sure where to put this since it involves Civs, Wonders, Techs and Units.

Wonder Idea: Frankenstein's Lab
Tech Required: Electricity
Hammer Cost: 750
Culture: 2
GP Points: 3 (Scientist)
Ability: Allows Construction of the unit Frankenstein's Monster, +25% faster research of Early Cloning.
Problems: The Transylvanian LU is Frankenstein's Monster, though i believe we could change it to the Vampire Lord, A demon of some sort (Vampires were known for being affiliated with the Devil), Giant Bats (ala Midgard Scenario ala CivII) or even Werewolves (ala Castlevania).

Unit Idea: Frankenstein's Monster
Stats: Same as current except requiring Frankenstein's Lab, possibly reducing the cost in the process.
Upgrades to: Zombie or Gargantuan Zombie

Unit Idea: Zombie
Idea From: Romero Movies, Left for Dead, Harry Potter, Plants vs. Zombies, Afterworld...
Strength: 22(Weak for the era it's in, but can be used for Zerg Rushing)
Movement: 2
Hammer Cost: 130
Tech: Early Cloning

Unit Idea: Gargantuan Zombie
Idea From: Left for Dead, Plants vs. Zombies, Warcraft Universe, Afterworld...
Strength: 45
Movement: 1
Hammer Cost: 250
Tech: Early Cloning
National Limit: 5 on Standard

Tech Idea: Early Cloning
Idea From: Me.
Tech Cost: 500 less than Cloning
Required Techs: Electricity and Genetics
Required For: Cloning

Slhj
Jul 08, 2011, 10:16 PM
Some new Civs!

Name: Rapture
From: Bioshock
Leader: Andrew Ryan
UU: Splicer (Replaces Warrior)
SU: Big Daddy
Hero: Subject Delta

Name: Apes
From: Planet of The Apes
Leader: General Thade
UU: Ape (Replaces Warrior)
SU: Ape calvary
Hero:??

Name: Death Eaters
From: Harry Potter
Leader: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named
UU: Death eater
SU: Dementor
Hero:??

Name: Ministry of Magic
From: Harry Potter
Leader: Cornelius Oswald Fudge
UU:Wizard
SU: Auror
Hero: Harry Potter

And these are for Melonkey1, who wanted space empires, here is thier land version if you want them:

Name: Daleks
From: Doctor Who
Leader: Dalek Emperor
UU: Dalek (Replaces Almost all the rest of the units)
SU: Imperial Dalek Gaurd
Hero: Dalek Sec

Name: Cybermen
From: Doctor Who
Leader: Cyber Leader
UU: Cybermen
SU: Upgraded Cybermen
Hero:??

Name: Klingon
From: Star Trek
Leader: Kathless The Unforgettable
UU: Klingon Falcon (Replaces all air units)
SU: Klingon Soldier
Hero:??