Monarch is too easy for all us veteran players. Let's discuss diffuculty under Emperor.

Right now I only tested French on Alpha 2. My walkthrough:

1. Settle Paris. Build barrack. Worker mine copper. Convert to catholism. Tech: calender (20 turns).

2. build 2 axemen, hire a mercenary, conquer Tours. Tech: theology - archetecture - monasticism. Tours build workers. We need about 10 workers.

3. build more axemen, hire 1 or 2 more merc, DoW on Burgandy, Conquer Dijon. By this time they should settled Lyon. Get Manorlism from them. Don't convert. Make peace with Burgandy, then conquer Toulouse.

4. By this time I got plaque, slowing down settler progress in Paris, also killed all units in Lyon. Later I took empty Lyon with 1 archer.

5. Go on conquer Marsilles. Now we have 6 cities: Paris, Tours, Dijon, Lyon, Toulouse, Marsilles. I settled Verdun as 7th.

6. Paris build Monastery of Cluny. Tech toward Literature, for Marco Polo.

7. Don't go serfdom&manorlism. My target is CS & Free Peasantry. build cottages on every free grassland & plains (except, we need 2 farms west of Toulouse, for early growth)

8. Paris should build market and have 1 merchant. First GP is a GM, go to Trisete for 1100 gold and buy tech (vassalage, feudalism). Convert: Electorate& OR.

9. I failed Notre Dame race.

10. 8th city be Amerstdam (east of Dye, on Sulphur). It would flip on 1580 but it's late game. Amerstdam is a great spot.

11. 2nd GP is GM too. Went for 1100 gold again.

12. After Civil Service, go for Map Making - Lateen Sail - Clockmaking. We want Hanseastic League! Civic change to Bureaucracy - FP - Merchant Republic - Vassalage (Bulgaria vassalized to me).

13. 3rd GP is a scholar. Joined Paris.

14. Stole Aristocracy from Spain. Butcher is important for $ and 2nd merchant.

15. 9th city: Coblence (access to silver, WW of Frankfurt razed by barbs). 10th: Bordeaux(S of La Rochelle). 11st: Calais (Flipped to England then to me due to Paris culture). 12nd: Nantes (Timber, Honey, Cow)

16. Conquered Jerusalem on 3rd Crusade (I made peace to Arab, saved 1st ones and walked them back to homeland), got a golden age, completed my 4th GP - a Great Merchant. Went to Calais, incoporated Hansa.

17. The rest is easy: Guilds- Banking (Temple mount) - Optics (San Marco). I managed to research Arabic Knowledge and completed La Mezquita (Arab didn't research philosophy and Cordoba didn't build), now I run research at 90% to 100%, 1000+ points per turn. Spain collpsed once and respawned, but still far from me. After Divine Right (built both wonder), go for Public Works (Palacio, no anarchy), then we are free to adopt CM or Republic.

18. After Astronomy, feel free to expand to Sicily, Ponta Delgada for more Salt & Fish.

I got 2/3 UHV in 1380. Got Antioch and Tarsus from the start, built lots of wonders. Don't remember a whole lot but I think La Mezquita and Monastery of Cluny were some of the most important ones. Purged other religions from most of my cities, then got the Divine Right wonders and switched to free religion for a while, and capitalized on a plague that started in Hungary which made my 25% Islam (only spread Islam by missionaries to 3 or 4 cities in Europe). Turkey vassalized to me so I'm safe from the north. Venice has Tunis and Tripoli, and Algiers is indy, but with my production it's just moving my mouse back and forth until I win.

The only gameplay complaint I have is that the Crusades tend to end 1 turn after they arrive because the Crusaders throw themselves onto my castled Jerusalem defended by Knights Hospitaler and arbalests, and then they are willing to make peace. It would be much harder to defend both Sour and Jerusalem if they didn't make peace.

Were it not for the nice gifts of optics and civil service by the French and Burgundians, respectively, this would have taken a much longer time. Maybe they took pity on my being last. I ended up being 3rd in score.

Important points:
1. Collapse Cordoba ASAP. It helped that it had La Mezquita, but I couldn't use it until I got Arabic Knowledge (9 moves somewhat wasted). Pillaging around Cordoba helps a lot with eliminating their war machine (horse, iron) and inducing instability.
2. Stick with Catholicism and befriend Spain at all costs. Steal lots of techs from them--especially Trading Companies, Renaissance Art and Naval Architecture. One could have gone the Constitution/Nationalism path, but I find that the AI doesn't know how to build the East/West Trading Companies but does know how to get the colonial projects that don't need them, so Virginia and Far East Trading Port are the logical choices.
3. Found the colonies close to 1640 to avoid increasing cost of tech.
4. The Pope was instrumental in some tech trades.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=219228&stc=1&d=1246141461

Spain is fairly straightforward. Declare war right as soon as your horses get in range of Cordoba, pillage like mad and build units to capture Cordoba first. Then it's smooth sailing since Spain is so rich in resources. Best cities are Cordoba, Leon, Zaragoza and Valencia. The control 4 non-mainland cities is a "by" criteria, i.e. once you do it you can give away the cities (so I gave away Florence). I got the 3 colonial projects very early so I colonized and conquered all of North Africa plus the 4 Atlantic islands. Had a respawned England, Vikings and Portugal as vassals, all induced to go back to the True Faith and Theocracy by techs.

Of course, Philosophy and Arabic Knowledge must be had ASAP. La Mezquita, Tomb of Al Khalid, the Alhambra (built in Cordoba), Gardens of Al Andalus were all built.

Spain is probably a good choice for doing domination with its production. (I was 10% but could have easily gone into France, my stability was a whopping 70 at the end).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=219368&stc=1&d=1246237456

Venice has got to be the easiest emperor UHV as it is stated right now. All the criteria are "by" criteria, so you can win as early as you want. I basically conquered Florence and Milan to start, founded Aquileia instead of the marsh-locked Venice (which also overlaps majorly with Florence), conquered Ragusa, Napoli, founded Durazzo, Agrigento, and another city on the stone at the sole of Italy, conquered Rhodes with my crusaders (made peace after killing some Arab trebuchets), then founded 1 city each on Crete, Sparta and Cyprus, and voila! I win. (see my suggestions in the gameplay thread for how to make this harder)
Interestingly, I never got my golden age, but got the 1st and 3rd criteria at the same time.

I was doing fine, had Calais, Caen and conquered Paris, made peace with French, about 10 turns later French vassalized to me. Then, I failed UHV #1 in 1452. Where else should I settle or conquer?

Stregedy:

City founding: London - Bristol (5w) - Chester (pig, deer, cover the whole Welsh with Bristol and doesn't overlap) - Inverness (NNNE of Edinburgh, on moorland sheep) - Belfast (after Edinburgh had 100 culture) - Kilaarney (that's all for Ireland).

Captured Edinburgh after 2nd wave of barbs.

Tech: Civil service first (in my game the Pope traded to me at nearly halftime). Both Marco Polo and Hanseastic League were already founded in my game. Still went to literature and clockmaking, then guilds. Maybe should rush to guilds first.

Civics: Stayed Electorate - Bureaucracy - FP - MR - OR - Vassalage, didn't change to Apprenticeship (for cottage growth and work rate).

Foreign: Burgandy conquered Germany and Barcelona(what an important city) and was 1st in score and tech, they also found Amerstdam, which granted them an AA, and colonized Gold Coast and East Africa around 1420. Spain and Cordoba were mediocore.

Wonders: Didn't get one. Didn't found a corp too. Maybe I should rush for St. George, pump up esiponage power.

Great people: got 1 scholar in Calais, joined London (maybe should bulb optics). Maybe the best is spy. Will save a merchant for St. George next time.

Overall: Control all of England ASAP. Make peace with France (we need they DoW at flip), stack trebuchets and maceman after united England. Then conquer France. I'll do this over again.

Byzantium is an exercise in tedium and micromangement. All that gold is going to wither away in no time, and working money tiles at the expense of food and hammers is very frustrating.

Techs: astrolabe (fish boats), trade for manorialism, but don't ever give away the wonder techs, then farriers for lancers (anticipating the barbs later on). You can trade for religious art also. After Marco Polo is built, you can get vassalage from either the Pope or the Bulgarians.

Constantinople builds a hippodrome, then Shrine of Uppsala, then a workboat, then Monastery of Cluny, then finally Marco Polo and a manor house. If you're lucky you can try to get a cathedral, but time doesn't favor it because other cities don't have enough production to get churches. I just barely surpassed Rome's culture in 930 (it had a 200 point lead until Cluny was built). Population isn't an issue (Rome usually doesn't get beyond size 6).

A good city (either Ephesus or Nicaea) builds the Heroic Epic (takes 400 years! because you can't even quarry the freaking marble) in anticipation for lots of troops later on.

Work all plantations/money/sea tiles until you have cottaged some rivered grasslands or mined gold/silver. Mines are all around, but you can't use them because of population issues. ("Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink")

Arabia has to be killed from the start. You have enough swords to do it.

Then there's the problem of too many cities. When Bulgaria spawns I give away 3 cities: Sinope, Caesarea, and lonely north African city (whatever name it's called). They'll eventually declare war, but reconquer Caesarea, pillage some in Bulgaria, and they'll make peace. When Venice shows up, I give them Caesarea again, since there's no way they can withstand the barbs. Too bad you cannot raze these cities when you recapture them.

Independence can be suppressed by sitting troops 2 away from them, and making sure roads are all around. I finally let Alexandria go after I don't need the stone for the wonders...:( All suspect cities build nothing but research and an occasional work boat (Sur).

Now for the barbs...

The competitor for Constantinople's culture is Rome, however, the competitor for population is Cordoba. Do you remember if they were a treat, they should be at least at 8.

For a human Cordoba its a challenge to beat AI Constantinople in population, but not the other way.

Cordoba can found capital on 1E of starting tile, it's still Qurtubah, and doesn't overlap with Cadiz, and can get deer. I think that's the best spot. To beat Constantinople in pops, just build noria and smokehouse, and we still have time to build wonders. it'll be easy.

Still working on English, I reloaded a lot.

New stregedy: DON't found London at start. found Chester and Bristol instead. First 2 turns change civics, on 3rd turn we can found Chester, and York will flip as capital (more $ than London). Adopt Catholicism, on 4th turn found Bristol. Chester and Bristol both assign a citizen, that'll be 2.50 culture per turn. This way, we only have to handle one wave of Welsh.

if u found cordoba 1E (as i tried too) the UHV fails in 1000AD no matter who much pop u have

Yes, same as Babylon's UHV in RFC, you must settle in place if you want the UHV.

This is frustrating: I nearly completed English's UHV, and a bad memory allocation failure occured.
It was turn 431, 1731, I was 99% at Industrial Rev. Maybe my 2G RAM is not enough.

This time I razed Utrecht (Burgandian) at 1200s, they collapsed soon. Without that tech leader it was easier, but I still have to conquer France. I didn't found a city on Ireland because I wanted to focus on Frence. Then in 1300s I conquered Rennes - Nantes - Paris - Bordeaux, and 2nd Bordeaux(Chatres, SS of fish, SSS of AA) in 1440s. The French just didn't collapsed. They founded Pro-ism in 1473 (Luxembourg) which I conquered later. I refounded Utrecht (on timber), it growed crazily(maybe the best city site in this game). When Dutch spawned it flipped, I let it go.

The key was shipbuilding, Magellan's Voyage, the most powerful wonder with coastal cities. Spain got shipbuilding and Bank of St. George first, but I managed to build the Voyage. Later I founded Medici Banks which allowed me to tech at 80 - 90 - 100%.

Portugal was my vassal, Cordoba collapsed but Spain didn't conquer their lands. I was racing with Spain on Astronomy and Renaissance Arts (lost latter because I teched Constitution first). I built Belem Tower in capital York with a GE. That was second key of my late game.

Had war with Spain, gave away Rennes for peace, Rennes is a crap city without access to cow. I stole some techs there later. When I was losing renaissance wonders, I tried to use influence civics / religion trick, but I found out that they doesn't get anarchy with this trick, and the Palacio de Pena was owned by Venitian.

Built 15+ privateer, completely blocked Spain. They couldn't breathe until they got War Galleon. This way I built nearly all colonial projects except Gold Coast (lost to Spain by one turn) and Civil Engineering ones.

Scientific Method - Nationalism - Steam Power - Liberialism - Economics - Right of Man (Encyclopedia, got all latter military techs) - Free Market - Machine Tools - traded Biology with my vassal Netherland - Medicine - Industrial Rev.

Here is save file. Use the 4 GP in York to bulb, then you win.

Should keep Toulouse instead of gave to Portugal, it had the Dome of the Rock.

Completely blocking Spain might have been an overkill. All projects require Atlantic Access, as long as you keep those under control, no one can build Colonies. If the Spanish have not taken Cardiz, then you have to worry only about the one near A Coruna. Also, did Portugal pose no treat?

The really hard part is capturing Constantinople. Sredets (nudged between the 3 mountains) is 2nd city I founded--it's got food and hammers like no other city in the Balkans. Captured Hadrianople, Thessaloniki and Athens right away, then waited A LONG TIME to accumulate enough troops to overwhelm 2 crossbows in Constantinople. The trick is to realize that you cannot pay for a bunch of catapults to whittle down Constantinople's defenses, nor will you accumulate enough espionage for inducing a revolt until the late 1100's, if at all. And Justinian has a nasty habit of running arbalests from Asia Minor to his capital right after you declare war.

So I loaded up some catapults and axemen on 4 galleys, built a whole bunch of korniks and lancers (who can reach the iron 2NW of Constantinople and then to it). The galleys hid in one of the shallow waters just north of Heraclea (how the Byzantine AI finds enough hammers to build cities I just can't fathom) and from there they can reach the wheat east of Constantinople in 1 move. Then I sacrificed most of my catapults korniks (most of them had 2x withdrawal promotions while lancers had 3x strength), and if you're lucky enough, you can take Constantinople with half your troops left. Interestingly the Byzantines didn't immediately collapse, but a good 10 turns later. The Hungarians also declared on me (because I had Belgrade), but they were no match for my production.

Built all the buildings in the mid 1100's, and from then on it's a matter of fortifying around my capital and building arbalests to sit in forts. Founded all kinds of cities in Greece, Magna Graecia and Sicily to boost my economy.

Naturally you are playing on Emperor. On Monarch, you just need to accumulate 5 - 7 Catapults and 5 - 6 Konniks and Heavy Lancers. I usually have Constantinople before 1000AD.

Completely blocking Spain might have been an overkill. All projects require Atlantic Access, as long as you keep those under control, no one can build Colonies. If the Spanish have not taken Cardiz, then you have to worry only about the one near A Coruna. Also, did Portugal pose no treat?

Portugal was my vassal and only had 2 cities before I conquer south France for them (I also gave them Ponta Delgada). They were terribly backward. No one founded Cadiz and Tanjah was independant.

The only other AA was Tonsberg's, and the Norse was also backward and blocked by 4 privateers. Amerstdam? The Dutch spawns after I already had many works done, and they vassalized to me.

Naturally you are playing on Emperor. On Monarch, you just need to accumulate 5 - 7 Catapults and 5 - 6 Konniks and Heavy Lancers. I usually have Constantinople before 1000AD.

Sometimes Constantinople only have 1 troop...... and where's Tagmata? Maybe they disbanded them due to lack of gold.

Do you rush for wonders as Burgarians? I usually use second settler to found city on the stone/hill/forest/plains tile.

Sometimes Constantinople only have 1 troop...... and where's Tagmata? Maybe they disbanded them due to lack of gold.

Do you rush for wonders as Burgarians? I usually use second settler to found city on the stone/hill/forest/plains tile.

Tagmata would often get disbanded due to the lack of gold. I would usually have to fight at least one though.

As Bulgaria I try to get the Round Church and get Feudalism for the free tech. With that and Farriers I have at least 2 - 3 Heavy Lancers for Constantinople (again I play Monarch).

After I have Constantinople, I do build wonders for stability and for the reason that there is little else to do.

BTW on Emperor, the Mongols would be a treat to Bulgaria. One I have 6 Mongols attack at the same turn (on Monarch).

Finally finished the Bulgarians on emperor. Very interesting history BTW--it would be THE representative empire of RFC with all its rises and falls.

The Mongolians were fast and furious. I had to station no less than 8 armored lancers and 7 guisarmes plus some miscellaneous arbalests and medical konniks in Neh (founded on the barley up north, very defensive position with only 3 entrances available given the marshes). I counted no less than 25 keshiks. Austria was my vassal, then Kiev respawned and I liberated some cities to them and they became vassals.

It took me a while to realize the keshiks are actually light cavalry, and arbalests have no advantage against them. Their first strikes are deadly. If there was one change I could make I would make them lose their first strikes but gain a 10% withdrawal, since they are light cavalry.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220045&stc=1&d=1246766099

Finally finished the Bulgarians on emperor. Very interesting history BTW--it would be THE representative empire of RFC with all its rises and falls.

The Mongolians were fast and furious. I had to station no less than 8 armored lancers and 7 guisarmes plus some miscellaneous arbalests and medical konniks in Neh (founded on the barley up north, very defensive position with only 3 entrances available given the marshes). I counted no less than 25 keshiks. Austria was my vassal, then Kiev respawned and I liberated some cities to them and they became vassals.

It took me a while to realize the keshiks are actually light cavalry, and arbalests have no advantage against them. Their first strikes are deadly. If there was one change I could make I would make them lose their first strikes but gain a 10% withdrawal, since they are light cavalry.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220045&stc=1&d=1246766099

Interesting city placement. I will have to investigate. Particularly the location for the capital. I will also do some tests with the Keshiks to see how that affects everything.

So to summarize so far:

Easy:
Sweden (build Heroic Epic and conquer away!)
Venice (don't found Venice!)
France (kill Burgundy)
Spain (kill Cordoba and be nice to Portugal)
Arabia (defend against barbs and Euros is the only hard part)
Portugal (kill Cordoba)
Hungary (kill Poland and Austria, found cities in Poland and Germany, steal techs from neighbors)
Poland (as long as you build towards the West and have lots of troops on the east against the keshiks, and sign a defensive pact with Germany)
Moscow (use your boyars wisely, build lots of manor houses and courthouses before concentrating on culture, no war at all if possible)
Turkey (get Constantinople first, then Arabia ASAP, then it's a piece of cake)
Kiev (30+ keshiks rampage--found on strategic places, build lots of druzhina)

Hard but doable:
Netherlands (impossible to beat the others to Trading Companies, the only hope is that Germany will not be occupied at all and that the AI doesn't build the East and West Trading Companies)
England (see youtien's post)
Genoa (Hanseatic League and Medici Bank)
Bulgaria (surprise attack on Constantinople; choke points against the keshiks)
Austria (just really difficult to get vassals militarily)
Norse (just explore early and declare war on Cordoba, raze indy/English cities with berserkers)

To be classified (but probably hard to impossible):
Cordoba (need more happiness in Cordoba right away, ?send a pillaging party to Byzantium right away)
Byzantium
Germany (too many freaking barbs between Germany and Russia all gunning for you)

People are welcome to prove me wrong.:lol:

Are the Norse required to go to Crimea? For visibility, you only need to OB with the Byzantines (before the Great Schism that should not be hard), and for settlement, one needed Sicily.

Yeah, but in emperor Byzantines don't tend to open borders when you meet them, and you don't have anything they need. Declaring war on Arabia might do the trick, but then Arabia will kill your boats.

Opening borders and getting the 5 merchants--no problem (well, as long as Germany gets killed by the barbs at start, because otherwise there's no way you can get 5 merchants in time without at least 3-4 good cities).

The problem is that you don't start with Trading Companies which takes almost a century to research. (I think the Dutch should really start with it, given their late start). If the bug that [Philippines/Cuba etc are considered national wonders] is corrected, you will never get to them in time, and then Economics etc take another 20-40 turns to research, i.e. too late.

The solution to this for fairness (even in monarch) is to make the UHV include the West and East Trading Companies (which the AI doesn't prioritize), and include the East Indies and another colony of your choice to be built.

I also suggest making Belgium the patrimony of Netherlands since the French are too strong in that area culturally, crimping Amsterdam a lot. Flanders belonged to the Low Countries which was Dutch speaking.

Finished Bulgaria too. Capital was Drustar, frontline city on the barley. Conquered Constantinople before 1000, then Hungary and Venice vassalized to me. I directed their research and build 8 spies to steal tech from them. This way, I managed to get chivalry around 1130(Arab built wonders first). And I also founded Knight Templar and Teutonic Knights- the latter gives 14 str knight, which overpowers keshiks. Massed 20 units in frontline, simply beat the first wave.

Built Shrine of Uppsala, Golden Bull, Magellan's Voyage and Belem Tower (Astronomy in 1300s) in Ragusa, made it a monster city. Portugal and Cordoba vassalized to me too, but Cordoba didn't work the AA tile even they had Astronomy. Was about to conquer Spain's Amerstdam to get AA, and I won.

All Norse can enter oceans. And if Crimea is needed, just place a settler on boat, settle before UHV check.

Here's screenshot. I had over 2100 points in score. Trading Company researched, military tradition stole, Palacio de Pena built. This is better than AnotherPacifist, ha ha. Let's see who can do better than this.

Janina, 3th settler founded on stone, built Cluny. Capital built Round Church for literature (bought music from Venice). Odrin or Solun spawn a early GM was important.

Had 6 spies in Venetia. This lovely vassal of mine tried to build the Leaning Tower and San Marco, I sabotaged both and built in my city instead. They stayed one city for a long time, then settled poor Crete. AI has problem shipping their settler and troops, they usually doesn't found second city. We should enable settler and missionaries to enter mud.

Well, I kinda turtled after I got Constantinople and didn't do espionage/exploration. Didn't even conquer Ephesus or Nicaea (although I probably could have done it. I figure the fewer cities that are in contact with the Turks the better. I just built cities willy-nilly in neutral places like the boot of Italy and Sicily, and maintained a stable economy to last till 1400. Not much of a warrior here unless I need to. :lol:

This is a botched attempt, but it gave me some clue as to what to do next. I mistakenly went for lateen sails and clockmaking for Hanseatic League but got beaten to it by Venice by 1 move! :mad: So next time I'm going to gun for the great priest and since nobody has chivalry I should be able to found Teutonic Knights. [Edit: never mind, it needs plate armor, and Byzantium will found it]
Conquered every indy city in sight, including Marseilles (vote for Burgundy for Crusade always since they'll become unstable, and Marseilles might become indy), Ragusa, Milan, Florence, Napoli and Tunis.
Second city to found should be Agrigento in Sicily (I mistakenly went for Sardinia which was a slow growing city).

The only real challenge is to found the 2nd corporation. Since there's no time for the Knights Templar and Hospitaller (no blast furnace or plate armor), it has to be a great merchant corp. Venice guns for Hanseatic League, so no point trying to beat him, and all the other techs are rather expensive:
Paper (needs classical knowledge, alchemy, civil service, guilds, banking,philosophy and education) 8 techs
Shipbuilding (needs classical knowledge, alchemy, civil service, guilds, banking, lateen sails, clockmaking, and optics)10 techs
Chemistry (needs classical knowledge, alchemy, civil service, guilds, gunpowder, philosophy, education, arabic knowledge) 9 techs

So the first tech to research should be classical knowledge. Civil service is prioritized by the AI so it should be readily tradable. If I can get chemistry before 1500 (which is when the Swedes spawn) I should be able to do it.

The other thought would be to go for clockmaking but capture Zara and choke Venice to death, but that would involve quite a number of troops which could be conquering indy cities otherwise. I'm probably going to try this route (building some cheap skirmishers and sitting them around Venice will probably do the trick).

Have played Spain France Burgundy and Turkey and arabia so far with good success. I have only finished spain.

I actually think that Turkey is the easiest of these. Many, many bombards, actually a 1/3rd to 1/2 of forces as bombards are needed at times. Arbia was a much more difficult target than byzatium with more soldiers. Collapsed quicky though. Currently about to take wien and alexandria in 1542.

Spain is just a matter of conquering cordoba and then concentrating on infrastucture. Be sure to take vichy as it seems u need all of the iberian mountains for the uhv.

I think Burgundy is a a matter of the right techs. And very carefull growth for stability. Chain mail and plate armor bought me most of the other techs.
Three cities on both rhine and Rhone? Will one bordering both count as one for each (east of dijon). I am at a bit of a stumbing block here. Jerusalem should be easy with free castle wonder.

France seems a bit harder that Burgundy. A matter of carefull tech trading and expansion into northern spain for the stone and sheep is now working for me. Correct me if im wrong, but Burgondy will not respawn after mid 14th century, so I am cautious about attacking them untill later. I tried conquering them early one game but they just respawned. I assume the colonial uhv is a matter of keeping eyes on neighbors and blocking their atlantic access if they start to build a wonder.

Byzantium seems a real nigtmare on emperor. Perhaps a wonder is needed before the first city declares independance and all the courthouses are built. What about just concentrating on interior of empire and waiting to retake other cities later? WOuld stability recover?

I have not had success with england or germany. There are too many barbarians, and the english uhv is a real challenge (5 colonies).

So the two techs must be clockmaking (Hanseatic League) and paper (Medici Banks). Reason is that clockmaking is the cheapest of them, and about 75% of the time you should be able to get it. The AI doesn't prioritize philosophy or education, so paper (which needs both) is invariably late for them. (The Arabs already have ungodly techs and they neglected paper). Chemistry is impossibly costly with the need for Arabic Knowledge, and Shipbuilding is also prioritized by Venice (it missed founding Banks of St George even though it built Magellan's).
Now it's only a matter of amassing enough troops to get Cyprus and Marseilles. I consider this UHV done (although I'll play on). Open borders is no big deal (I have like 12 or 13 open borders).

So tech tree (not counting easy trades which can be obtained from anybody other than Venice):
lateen sails
clockmaking
classical knowledge
alchemy
civil service (wait until most of the AIs have this--it's cheaper)
philosophy
education
guilds (wait until most of the AIs have this--it's cheaper)
banking
paper

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220451&stc=1&d=1247111765

Finished Venezia in 1341 and could have been must faster. You don't have to fight much, you don't need techs, way to easy.

8 Colonies for England is maybe a little to much, you can't discover all techs first, the ai will get colonies.

Kiev can be done because you don't need techs and don't have to fight anything else, just build a lot of heavy cavalry and some siege engines to weaken large stacks.

Germany is still on my to do list, i don't like my first solution to plunder Burgund and capture indis, it's more about exploiting than a strategy :)

bye Myri

Finished Venezia in 1341 and could have been must faster. You don't have to fight much, you don't need techs, way to easy.


Yeah, Venice needs to be harder (I got it in 1147).
Youtien got England (quite a feat IMHO).

So got Portugal, Austria, Norse and at the very last turn, Venice as voluntary vassals. That last vassalization pitted me against Bulgaria, Arabia and the Byzantines, which I probably would have lost if I had to drag it out.

I thought I was being clever trying to get Renaissance art, but just as I got it, the Northern Renaissance (spearheaded by the Germans) got all 3 wonders before me. :mad:

I did found Augsburg Bankers though, making it 3 banks. My empire with vassals basically is all of Italy and the 3 islands (except Rome, and I stayed a faithful Catholic even though I founded Protestantism), Yugoslavia, Austria and Hungary, plus the other required territories for 1st UHV. I conquered Algiers and an indy Hippo Regius. Score was only 6688 (Hoover)...:rolleyes:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220546&stc=1&d=1247198281

Doing fairly well with Hungary, but I wonder, It says I must control the most land area in europe. Turks Byzantines (except for greece) and arabs dont count I presume? For free religion I plan to capture golden bull, whoever builds it. Thx.

Control e side of rhine. What exactly does this mean?

Control e side of rhine. What exactly does this mean?

Look in the reference folder. RFCEurope\Reference

Most territory in Europe is exactly what it means, Arabs and Byzantines count, however, only their European land (if any) counts.

I'm doing Germany. Settle WW of Frankfurt, 2nd go Freiburg(grass hill 5SE of capitol), 3rd go Amerstdam (on sulphur invisible yet). Defeat 2 massive barb waves (flipped a lot of horse archers), then there'll be no more. Augsburg was razed in this game(I don't want it either), Prag razed too. I settled 1W of Prag later (iron, silver, gem, stone, a lot better spot) though it flipped to Austria. DoW and recaptured it soon. Other cities are Verdun (captured from Burgandy), Wittenburg, one city near former Augsburg, and Hamburg. Techs are still backward, Burgandy built a lot of wonders. Stability is shaky, didn't build Rathaus and manor houses yet.

Thank you, when it says "cities" does this mean city culture as well, or just a city?

Thank you, when it says "cities" does this mean city culture as well, or just a city?

City is City. Own all cities means that others may own tiles but not cities.

I settled on the hills one south of start, 2nd city kostenz, 3rd rothenburg on plains east of rhine (there gives gems as well). The burgundians and other civs took care of the barb spearmen and axes, only a few horse archers showed up. They never decended down on me like when i found on spot. Am ready to found new city 1 north of prague to get stone, shouldnt flip there. Then i guess ill creep up to the coast. The other civs like to park their units in n. germany. Very usefull. Keeps me safe for now. WHat civics are you using?

I think Europe means the whole area of the map, and for the rhine you can check the "reference" folder in RFCE folder in your mod folders (many folders, I know :P) there there's a map with UHV area reference to each civilizations that need one (there's also spawns, settlermaps and warmaps).
Edit: Sorry left the page on and didn't refresh before posting.

1330, 8 cities in germany, teutonic and knights hospitaller founded, vassalized austria. Not quite sure where to go from here to get the 2 other vassals. Also divided on whether to go for military tradition or gunpowder first. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Norse, Venice, Genoa and Portugal are all good spontaneous vassals, as long as you're nice to them. Just build your military and some more cities, and they'll come. (Heck, if Venice is willing to vassalize to a Genoa that has a large landmass and lots of units, they'll certainly vassalize to Germany)

So obviously one can capture Magna Carta and be much quicker, but I thought it would be fun to see how expensive Liberalism was. It was 45000 beakers (I had 4 cities too many). It was actually more expensive to steal it from the French than research it myself.

So the obvious solution for being the biggest empire is to found capital near Austria (with close access to kill them when they spawn), kill Poland very soon after they spawn (Warsaw is a good city), and Germany will probably collapse from the barbs and you can expand in Germany with impunity. I made the mistake of switching to manorialism which limited my growth very much. Barb keshiks were very few (just about 10 appeared close to my borders).

My empire (together with my vassals Netherlands and a respawned Portugal) was like a big blob of Switzerland. There was wars all across Europe but they can't do much since I'm in the middle and neutral.

I think there's a bug with the Triumphal Arch for Hungary--I never got one after there were no Turkish cities in Europe (Byzantium can take care of themselves, thank you very much).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220654&stc=1&d=1247289262

First order of business is happiness. The Poles don't like an emperor, and you don't start with herbal medicine, and honey/wine are around.

Then it's enough armored lancers and spearmen (no time for aristocracy and guisarmes) to protect your eastern front (didn't see too many Mongols thankfully, even though I was prepared for them).

As long as you're Catholic, Germany will be nice to you. Sign a defensive pact with them and you'll be fine.

Had Austria as a vassal spontaneously, then Moscow defected from Germany to me spontaneously.

I didn't know what counts for population (is it your vassals and yourself or your own population?), so I was worried for some time when Arabia was at 21% (including vassals Cordoba, Venice and Burgundy). Numerically I have the most people, but I wasn't taking any chances and founded 4-5 cities in the east. With my vassals I got by with 1% more than Arabia.

Now it's just kissing ass to Germany, and saved 2 great people for double GA to keep me afloat till 1600.

The more I play RFCE, the more I'm impressed with the thought that went behind its buildings. I thought there were too many at first (with all the religious buildings and happiness buildings), but they are essential to winning in Emperor. The wars in Europe were fast and furious (I shudder at the thought of introducing better AI to the mod since it'll make emperor impossible).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220741&stc=1&d=1247350426
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220742&stc=1&d=1247350426
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220756&stc=1&d=1247354579

Got tired of western europe and decided to test out kiev for a challenge. Capitol on iron se of start, Kharkov, 2nd city on apple (access to silver), 3rd ne of sheep (encompassing wine). Survived the first wave of barbarians, (18 units) losing only a worker and a horse archer. Most of the barbarians appeared se of me but i did have 1 novice archer kill 3 barbarian lancers that appeared se end of map (on hills)

research eng-relart-va-ga, now aristocracy.
civics feu-serf-man-org

I assume keshiks will appear between lake and baltic and attack the first thing they see. Ill probably need 10 or so guiarmes with some druzhinas in city farthest east. Not sure how to garrison nearby cities.

Would send a screenshot but dont know how to do it on a laptop.

Note that keshiks will also appear west of you (I saw some appear right next to my eastern Hungarian city in the dense forests). Guisarmes are only good defending inside a castled city, you'll still need armored lancers or Teutonic knights for offensive strikes.

Well, Cordoba is probably impossible at this time. Classical knowledge alone takes 400 years, let alone Philosophy and all the techs to patronage. Numerous barbs come from north (even after you raze Toledo), which doesn't allow your axemen to go hunt some workers from Burgundy. And Constantinople is impossible to beat in terms of population (because you don't have the happiness in emperor).

Survived the keshiks (40-50 in groups of 4 from all directions). without losing too many units. Concentrating units in far east city is of course best, as there are more from this direction. As for Druzhina, I would keep them off frontlines and only for sparing counterattack as they are much more expensive than guiarmes but relatively equal defensively. The rest of uhv is very easy. Stole most important techs (2 great spies- - those veche halls are perfect). Think I may attack Constantinope to up my score when I feel like finishishing the game at some point.

Still havent figured out how to print a screenshot with my laptop keyboard - - please let me know.

I wanted to switch from my german start (no barbs left) to make poland more challenging. However Im not getting that message asking if I want to become a new civ. What gives?

Maybe it's because that civ is too close to your civ.

It'll probably be fixed, but for once the strong barbs collapsing Germany is actually in your favor. Founded Linz (doesn't overlap with Pest as much), and chose a rather ahistoric capital in Silesia. Expanded in Germany a lot. For once Venice didn't found Zara so I founded it to limit their growth. Made very aggressive tech trades with practically everybody. Venice was first (and only voluntary) vassal (they were at war with the 20+ Byzantine guisarmes which sit there and do nothing). Tried Genoa next but they wouldn't capitulate, and I had to make peace due to stability. Then Netherlands I gave map to and spread Catholicism to them, but they won't voluntarily vassalize. So I declared war on them, captured Utrecht, made peace, and liberated it to them. Then declared on Norse (who were under attack from Swedes and others), and captured/liberated 2 cities and duly vassalized. I have DP with Spain and Turkey.

Trick to avoid war with the extensive DPs is to reload, let the aggressor declare war (usually Spain), and sign the DP again next turn. Sounds gimmicky, but don't want to take on Arabia and its vassals.

I failed on Germany -- one rival had 2200000 troops in 1540 and I had only 1200000.

Restarted a game as French. This time, conquered Tours - Dijon - Lyon(razed) - Toulouse - Barcelona - Pamplona - Valencia(from Cordoba) then razed a Spanish city SSWW of Pamplona. Founded Bordeaux, Nantes, Treyes, Sicily. Calais flipped to me. 13 cities total.

Vassals were Germany, Portugal, English and Moscow. Conquered Jerusalem at 1st crusade, then gifted to England, made peace with Arabs, then English vassalized to me. About 400 years later I founded and switched to Protestianism, then the Pope called for 2nd crusade, Portugal was chosen, then they cancelled vassal and DoWed to me.

Had error with techs. Shouldn't go for Vaulted Arch(can't beat Bulgaria or Byzantium), should beeline Gothic for Notre Dame. Tech: Calendar - trade Theology with Rome - Manorlism - Monastism(tech 1/4, then got from Burgandy as peace price) - Arthitecture - Engeering - Vaulted Arch - Religious Art - Gothic - Music - Literature ...... used a lot vassal.

The key is let no rival beat you. Kill Burgandy early, conquer part of Iberia at all cost (Pamplona, Barcelona and Valencia are amazing good), but don't collapse Cordoba nor Spain. Against Venice, simply send a skirmisher(I hired a konnik) to pillage their farms and mines, then ask for gold to make peace, 10 turns later DoW again, capture their workers too. AI doesn't know to ship troops, all their troops would be locked by the mud. This way Venezia would pose no threat.

Lock Spain. On England, they should vassalize to you. Leave Calais alone, it will flip to you due to Paris culture unless you are unlucky.

Civic: no manorlism. Get cottages early, after vassalageand Gothic, adopt serfdom - OR. After Feudalism adopt Electorate - Vassalage, after CS adopt Bureaucracy - Merchant Republic. Tech for Divine Right and build Magna Carta, switch to Republic - Free peasantry. The rest is simple.

Germany only has one UHV, grow while you fight the barbs.

1. UHV: Just found Koeln, later Basel, maybe have to conquer / raze a city in Holland.
2. UHV: Do nothing.
3. UHV: Draft if necessary, wasn't because i had nothing other to do than bulding troops after 1320.

Once France attacked with 1 billion troups, i had nothing, but the clueless ai attacked guisarmes in mountain/hill with cavalry, moved trebuchets without protection, ...

Helped Poland and Austria with the Keshiks, else they sure had entered Germany.

bye Myri

failed the 2nd uhv by one vassal. what civics did u use?

Electorate, Bureaucracy, Free Peasantry, Merchant Republic, Organized Religion and Vassalage.

Changed to guilds to build army after i got the vassals.

Got Austria shortly after spawn, Genoa around 1260.

bye Myri

I tried this but had to redu because I was unstable. Ended up using feu-srf-man-org-va
this gives +6 civic stability. Probably kept my score down though, stopped that 3rd vassal.

In almost all my games I'm shaky most of the time until late game when I have a giga-empire to boost my economy. I cannot change any civics unless I get a golden age. This is the hard part about playing emperor that I don't like.

E.g. As Hungary I made the mistake of doing manorialism so even though I had tons of cities there were no trade routes between them until a castle. I learned my lesson so with Poland and Austria I stayed away from manorialism. There are really very few civs that need manoralism--the 1 less food basically kills your population growth.

Here's a pic of the unified Holy Roman Empire (plus some colonies in the Azores). My only regret was Breslau (Wroclaw) was not flipped by my culture. (I finally figured out how to rotate my map to fit every city in sight)
Even though I was top in score, I only had Ethelred the Unready in 1751. :(
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220969&stc=1&d=1247542754

To get that 3rd german uhv u need allot of soldiers, so after you get guilds, go right for divine right. Switch to Divine monarchy, Feudalsm, Serfdom, guilds and you wil be able to draft enough units to get your uhv. Between tueutonic knights or hanseatic league, the +1 hammers from serfdom, and the free engineer from guilds you can draft and produce as big an army as justinian. I would also recommend getting all those guild halls built with merchant republic before you make the switch.

As for civic stability, the +2 of this combo evens out the big minus in economy.

Moscow is very simple to do. Just capture all the barb cities, use your boyars wisely (don't let keshiks catch your boyars alone). I was unstable for a good bit but built plenty of manor houses and courthouses, and was even solid at one point.

I think the 3rd UHV should include the Byzantines. After all, Tsar means Caesar and the whole point of the Tsardom is that the legitimacy of the Roman Empire passed along to the Russians. It's easily doable once the culture dial is turned up all the way.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221150&stc=1&d=1247717792

Seems like you have done it. I will have to try that myself. In RFC there are enormous economical penalties for running 100% culture slider, I think we changed that in RFCE.

Seems like you have done it. I will have to try that myself. In RFC there are enormous economical penalties for running 100% culture slider, I think we changed that in RFCE.

Really? I wasn't aware of any economic penalties in RFC. In fact I usually get a little better city stability with more happy faces, right?

Really? I wasn't aware of any economic penalties in RFC. In fact I usually get a little better city stability with more happy faces, right?

Happiness does generate positive stability, however, in some of my Egypt games I lost cities trying to get the cultural victory via the culture bar. I think there is a question of what gets counted, i.e. gold or commerce. I have to double check the code.

Very easy as long as you make the 3rd UHV criteria your first priority.

Electorate, guilds, occupation, feudal law, organized religion and serfdom--best civic combination for quick culture with free specialist, lots of conquering to do and making every farm around your hilly cities count
Switch to Orthodoxy (to avoid future Crusades, anyway more of your cities have Orthodoxy and once you open borders with Arabia the missionaries will come)
Capture Constantinople, mop up the remaining Anatolian cities
Konya (capital) builds Heroic Epic and churns out whatever specialty troops Byzantium has (Templar Knights for me)
All other cities build bombards and an occasional longbow
Arabia already has muskets so macemen are useless except for defense, amass 4-5 bombards per city and defend well against counterattacks by muskets
Capture everything in the Levant and Egypt before going for Bulgaria--Arabia had almost ALL the wonders and even has the Church of All Saints. My research was at 100% almost as soon as Al Quds comes out of revolt.

In this pic (just to show I'm not playing monarch) I've already captured Vienna and liberated them to my vassal Hungary. Venice is my vassal but I had to build 2 more cities in western Greece to block them from building in my area. I'm not even going to play this one out since the outcome is a forgone conclusion. (I was trying to aim for domination but I need another 10% land and I'm getting sleepy). My stability is a whopping 83 after liberating cities when I had almost 40+ cities, still running electorate.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221230&stc=1&d=1247815518

So I am astounded as to my lack of understanding of what an ocean tile means. It does NOT mean all water tiles! (And I was exploring the coast of southern Spain at the risk of being attacked by Cordoba, thinking I had to reveal all "ocean" tiles)

So this is fairly accurate historically. Berserkers are powerful, but easily outmatched by later technology. The goal is therefore to raze as many indy cities as possible, and vulnerable civs like the English and Cordoba (at whom you have to declare war anyway to get to Sicily). Thankfully the Byzantine empire was nice enough to open borders at first meeting, possibly reflecting the history of the Varangian Guard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece_runestones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangian_Guard
Harald Hardrada was also the king of Norway that fought in Sicily and later invaded England.

First tech should be herbal medicine (happiness is just within grasp), then engineering. Traded away (carefully) my sailing secrets for 3 other techs.

Did not build Copenhagen but used Helsingfors (not the one in Finland, but right next door in Sweden) as capital since it has fairly decent production and food. This was done to avoid the numerous barbs who went for France instead. With my trireme as protection, 2nd settler went straight for Sicily--very decent production city, as long as you have access to your capital's iron for berserkers.

Built lots of galleys and triremes for exploration while Helsingfors grows enough to use the 6 tiles for settlers. Finished exploring just around the turn of the millenium. Best exploration technique is to zigzag stepwise which reveals more tiles than a straight line.

Razing cities got seriously under way with the protection of my GA (otherwise would have collapsed long ago). Razed York after giving it to Venice (the Battle of Stamford Bridge was not to be repeated). Gave Bordeaux to France and then razed it. Razed London and Norwich after some hits by barb spearmen and axemen (easier for me). Indy cities razed were Calais, Naples, Marseilles, Barcelona, Tunis. Then razed the eastern most Cordoba city (all troops converged on that weak point after indy cities were taken care of), and they were stupid enough to build it again and I promptly razed it. That makes 11 cities before I won. (Tried to give Sigtuna, the Iceland city, to England, and it did become 100% English but the option to raze it wasn't there)

Seriously, I was last place, but got Hammurabi, which is the 2nd highest score other than Venice, probably because of the early year.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221304&stc=1&d=1247876864

Ocean means exactly Ocean tiles. There are Ocean and Coastal tiles, Coast produces more commerce. Vikings need to explore the rest. The colors are slightly different.

There are Ocean tiles in the middle of the small Black Sea, however, those are there to force the Vikings to seek OB with Byzantines or perhaps settle Crimea from the North.

Or trade maps with someone.

Has anybody done Cordoba in emperor yet? I've tried it 3 times, failed the 1st criteria really bad. Constantinople grows to 14-15 before 1000. There is simply not enough happiness around (I got lucky once and a galley flipped to me, and I tried sending it all the way to meet Arabia to trade my only iron for some happiness resources but it got sank by an indy trireme).
And that's not even counting the fact that Spain outranks me militarily and there's no way I can get philosophy before 1300 AND defend myself.

I think Cordoba, being an offshoot of the Arabian conquests, should have knowledge of the African coastline all the way to Arabia, and they should actually be able to open borders with Arabia (right now they're pleased but unless you declare war on Byzantium they won't open borders with you).

I always stop playing Cordoba because of the damn slow production, everything takes forever. Hard to understand why Spain does not always destroy them, i saw them successful only 2 times yet.

Don't send a ship to Arabia, you will just end up with war with indis and no trade route is possible until you destroy them (oh yeah, with that production really fun) or have optics. Arabia will open borders after some time, if you give them a tech immediately, no need to declare war on Byzanz and risk a ship pillages your fishes.

You will get catholic or orthodox from indies or your cities without islam, at least theoretically a cathedral can help. Practically it's just luck how big Constantinople gets if you can achieve the first UHV, i have seen size 17 Constantinople in 1000 :)

The same with the wonders, it's just luck if Arabia builds one first or not, you can't do anything if they do.

With luck you will win, with bad luck you have no chance.

bye Myri

Has anybody done Cordoba in emperor yet? I've tried it 3 times, failed the 1st criteria really bad. Constantinople grows to 14-15 before 1000. There is simply not enough happiness around (I got lucky once and a galley flipped to me, and I tried sending it all the way to meet Arabia to trade my only iron for some happiness resources but it got sank by an indy trireme).
And that's not even counting the fact that Spain outranks me militarily and there's no way I can get philosophy before 1300 AND defend myself.

I think Cordoba, being an offshoot of the Arabian conquests, should have knowledge of the African coastline all the way to Arabia, and they should actually be able to open borders with Arabia (right now they're pleased but unless you declare war on Byzantium they won't open borders with you).

Which version are you playing. Cordoba starts with knowledge of most of the Mediterranean coast and contact with Arabia. Also, due to the diplomacy bonus between those two they should OB on turn 1.

due to the diplomacy bonus between those two they should OB on turn 1.

They don't at emporer, it can take 30 turns if you do nothing.

bye Myri

I actually did try not to convert to Islam at first, conquered a Catholic Barcelona and spread it to my other cities. It was too late--need more happiness right away because the limit is 9 (with an Islamic temple, hooked up the silver and wine).

I actually did try not to convert to Islam at first, conquered a Catholic Barcelona and spread it to my other cities. It was too late--need more happiness right away because the limit is 9 (with an Islamic temple, hooked up the silver and wine).

12 is usually enough size. IF you founded cordoba on your spawn location that is.

You need to have at least 14 pop, if you're lucky and the Justinian plague slowed down Constantinople's growth. (I once saw a 15 pop Constantinople) Opened borders with Arabia after a very unfavorable trade with them, squeezed them for every happiness resource they have (silk, incense, wine). I still have 3 unhappiness in Cordoba (partly because I didn't switch to Islam, Barcelona having just built a Catholic monastery).

They are really miles ahead of me (I don't even have religious art), and the Spanish are looming across the horizon with armored lancers and guisarmes (I only have little archers and spearmen).

Never mind, La Mezquita was built by the Arabs in 1026! (they somehow gunned for philosophy this time)

I think for this to be possible in emperor the Cordobans need to start out at least 1-2 more techs than the Arabs, or maybe even know whatever the Arabs know in 800 AD. There were no trade routes between me and the Arabs due to the indies. Maybe allow a route. (i.e. change one of the ocean tiles to a coast tile that isn't occupied by an indy)

One can always cheat and use the Byzantines to kill the Arabs at start, then switch to Cordoba, but even then the 1300 deadline is probably impossible to beat (the Gardens of Alhambra).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221412&stc=1&d=1247949422

Did the first 2 Cordoba UHVs, the third is just wait 250 years, a little to boring.

Size 13 Cordoba was large enough, Constantinople was at 13, too. Arabia did not build my wonders, but declared war, the only war i had, Spain, Portugal and Burgund stayed nice all the time, France was dead.

Would reduce tech for Cordoba and add production, tech is way to fast, production a pain.

bye Myri

You must have been very lucky. I just played a monarch Cordoba game which was very reasonably balanced (because of less maintenance and more happiness), and got to all 3 goals very easily. I was going to suggest giving vaulted arches to Cordoba so that one can get a free tech, otherwise it's mostly impossible to beat Arabia to both Patronage and philosophy. I thought Cordoba needed to be the largest (not just tied for size)?
Again, what do you mean when Spain and Portugal were nice? I was Catholic, gave them techs and maps, and they still declared war on me. Can you show me your political screen?

I guess the code checks if there's any city above Cordoba's size.

I was going to suggest giving vaulted arches to Cordoba so that one can get a free tech,

I researched vaulted and got civil services for free -> superior tech and fast wonder production in capital.


Again, what do you mean when Spain and Portugal were nice? I was Catholic, gave them techs and maps, and they still declared war on me. Can you show me your political screen?

I was Islam, gave them nothing, furious all the time, perfect, they won't attack as long you dont offer a free worker or city. Friendly, be prepared for an attack.

I don't keep old games and don't even know how to get a screenshot :)

bye Myri

I think the Scottish barbs need to be nerfed. The English lost ALL of the cities and in the end, got Calais as their capital, and collapsed when they declared war on me. This, coupled with Spain and Portugal vassalizing to me, means that nobody except me can build colonial projects. Also had Genoa (very helpful initially for stealing techs), Norse, Austria and Moscow as vassals. Without even trying I had 17% of land.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=222234&stc=1&d=1248576796

I think the Scottish barbs need to be nerfed. The English lost ALL of the cities and in the end, got Calais as their capital, and collapsed when they declared war on me. This, coupled with Spain and Portugal vassalizing to me, means that nobody except me can build colonial projects. Also had Genoa (very helpful initially for stealing techs), Norse, Austria and Moscow as vassals. Without even trying I had 17% of land.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=222234&stc=1&d=1248576796

You're right about the Scottish barbs. Try playing England even on Monarch. You've got a constant stream of barbs for 500 years, spawning every 3 or 4 turns. Even if you take Edinburgh early, as you should, you waste so much resources building defensive units that your research has to be neglected. And with England's UHVs you have to keep up in the tech race to have any chance. I don't say get rid of them, just make the spawn of Highlanders much less frequent.

I'm happy to say that I agree with Fanatik: Kievan Rus was a piece a cake. As long as you have a constant source of horse and iron (hence I founded on those resources) you can build lots of druzhina and plenty of time for that. My tech path was literature (both for the GA to bomb in the east to the movement of keshiks and for the Heroic Epic), then aristocracy (guisarmes as failsafe in case my druzhina are wounded).

First order of business: need more workers and settlers, since there's not enough happiness. Thankfully there's a dye around, and Hungary is so freaking stupid that I captured all 3 of their workers with 2 horse archers, and they could do nothing about it. :lol:

I've only lost 3 doubly promoted druzhina when attacking keshiks, none for triply promoted. They are my new favorite unit. By the mid 1250's it was clear I've built way too much druzhina, and I started finishing up the monasteries and cathedrals. (the pic is taken from right before I win) Even struck back at Astrakhan after the Mongols are gone.

The city closest to the Bulgarians was very productive (2 grains, 2 cows and 1 horse, lots of river, and I discovered gold there too). It was a launching point for stealing techs (I still have about 3000 points unused right before I won), and they were very friendly. The Byzantines gave me 2 free techs too! :lol:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=222317&stc=1&d=1248637817

In Alpha 5 the Pope's gift is very useful, especially for early civs.

And in this game my skirmisher miraculously found out that Constantinople was empty. So on turn 60, I DoWed. On turn 61, my sole skirmisher captured Constantinople. Byzantium collapsed next turn.

Bulgaria was so dumb that they maintained peace with me. And independent cities, they sent an axeman near Constantinople before I could build my defense. Strangely, I found out that if my unit leave the city, indy won't attack; if my unit stay in city, they attack.

So I controlled Constantinople for the rest of the game, the Hagia Sophia's 20 gold was very helpful, I built nearly every wonders, except Kalmar Castle and Garden of al-Andalus (Cordoba, my vassal).

My first GP was a great merchant from Constantinople, sent to Bulgaria city to get 900 gold, then bought engineering and vaulted arches and astrolabe from Rome. Paris built the Round Church 7 turns later. Researched map making, Marseilles built Uppsala.

Also, conquered Barcelona and Pamplona. Spied on Spain. Founded Knight Templar and Hanseastic League. With this huge advantage I managed to research astronomy in mid 14th century. Finished 6 projects on about turn 295. Easily won.

Venice did nice in this game, they founded Teutonic Knights and conquered Jerusalem without the crusade. (Arabia collapsed early).

You may download the savefile to enjoy the empty Constantinople.

Thanks for the input. Constantinople was not left undefended, it is just that its defenders probably dies in the early plague. In Alpha 5, the plague always hits Byzantium and if others have not had contact with the Byzantines, they usually don't get the plague.

I don't know what the deal with the Indy axeman was.

The plague of Justinian has got to be nerfed--I tried a 2nd game with Byzantines as emperor and it killed my precious workers! And it's allowed youtien to play opportunism to the max! :lol:

Bulgaria.

Rushed to the west to get as much as possible until i need my troops at the border to Byzanz, but Byzanz did not attack this time. In 1000 had 10 cities and a huge army. Stopped playing, to boring, Byzanz really has to attack.

bye Myri

Indy axemen: they attack a city with weak troop(like skirmisher) but they don't attack an empty city.

Has anybody been able to do Burgundy yet? When I capture Paris, France respawns quickly. So I tried capturing Tours but because I was so unstable, it went indy on me again. Then I tried razing Paris, Tours and Toulouse (to avoid a French respawn), built cities all across the Rhine and Rhone (within my spawn space), and killed the Germans. I had to contribute troops 5 times for the Crusades and NOT ONCE won the freaking bid. (I even had 2 saints and had the most Catholic population, I don't know what the pope is looking for. Techs? Score?) So right now I'm trying to either play for score or domination. The Germans, English and Austrians are my vassals currently.

Maybe you have to befriend with other Catholic nations to have them vote you.

I thought it was the pope exclusively who chose who went on the trip. All the other Catholic nations like me. (In fact, Hungary who got chosen no less than 3 times was at war with Poland at one time)

Anyway, I'm probably going to restart and try to not war with France but just capture her cities and surround her with my own cities.

I just did Burgandy.

First, found Besancon (SSW of start), research bronze casting (13 turns). Trade for theology. Then architecture. Build barracks then axeman. Hire 2 merc to capture Marseilles. Didn't contact French early because they'll automatically war. After Marseilles, conquer Barcelona, then Valencia (only 1 archer - crossbowman, easy). Barcelona gives access to sheep so we don't have to found Lyon.

Tech toward Vaulted Arches. Built Round Church, bulb literature (research music first). Then built Cluny and Marco Polo. Arab built Uppsala before I got Map Making.

3 cities in Rhone and Rhine valley: Verdun, Liege, Amesterdam. For stability problem, I built cheatau and researched code of laws soon. I built a city on Sicily too.

Founded Hanseastic League and Teutonic Knights (incompatible, but I wanted the knight).

On Crusade, the Pope always chose Venice. So on 4th I stocked 1000+ godl and paid 273 to take control. Strangely, I chose al-Quds, but it appeared to be my capital Bescanon. So I had to build carracks to ship them toward Jerusalem all the way.

After that it's very easy. Venice, Genoa, Germany and England were my vassal.

On faith point: Prostentism is too powerful (-tech cost and wonder/project cost). I had 60 points(with 2 saints) in the end, -30% research and wonder production, this made free religion totally useless (count Cluny and La Mezquita!)

I thought it was the pope exclusively who chose who went on the trip. All the other Catholic nations like me. (In fact, Hungary who got chosen no less than 3 times was at war with Poland at one time)

Anyway, I'm probably going to restart and try to not war with France but just capture her cities and surround her with my own cities.

The Pope has a lot of votes, but the Crusade leader is determined by a vote from all Catholics going on the Crusade. Having units that would leave increases the vote, but others have their units leaving as well, so it balances. Hungary may be at war with one nation, but if they are at peace with everyone else (or if Poland is small), then Hungary has a good chance of winning the vote.

If you contribute troops to a crusade, shouldn't you be able to watch the action, just like when you are voted leader? It'd be nice to be able to see what's happening even though you can't control it..

If you contribute troops to a crusade, shouldn't you be able to watch the action, just like when you are voted leader? It'd be nice to be able to see what's happening even though you can't control it..

Will think about it.

And, troops sent to crusade lose their promotion. Mercenaries usually been sent, that's a bit unreasonble.

And, troops sent to crusade lose their promotion. Mercenaries usually been sent, that's a bit unreasonble.

I don't think promotions can be helped right now.

Will fix the mercenaries.

Yeah I figured it's barracks then axemen. Actually founded Nancy closer to the French to war on them plus get some promotions from barbs but I guess staying away from them might work too.

I dunno, youtien, every single time I tech for the Round Church somebody in the east beats me to it (e.g. when I played Cordoba), especially without stone hooked up since Burgundy doesn't have architecture. And the Pope doesn't want to trade me theology since the French traded it to them or he teched it himself!:mad:

Bronze working needs 13 turns, calendar 22. The Pope researches monastism in about 10 turns.
As Burgandian I tech: bronze, (buy theology), architecture, engineering, vaulted arches. AI usually complete RC in 800s. You have to spawn troops early, conquer or raze cities (like Toulouse)to get gold, buy tech = buy time. Check F4 every turn.

As French: Calendar(tech trade enabled at about turn 20, buy this and theology from Rome), architecture, (occasionly war Burgandy, take monastism as peace price) , eng, vaulted arches...

You can try my save file.

If Burgandy found Nancy, it will be hard. slower growth and research (Besancon can get barley on 1st turn), barbs, French, and far from Marseilles and Iberia. North is too troublesome at early stage, so I suggest focus on south.

Just started an English game, I found it very hard. Although I got Caen and Calais at start, used Chester - Bristol trick to elimenate Welsh early, and gave Edinburgh to French as peace price(which will definitely be razed by barbs soon), then found Inverness on fur hill, and another city SE of moorland sheep, WW of Edinburgh (combine with Inverness, I could cover Scotland with 10 culture points)...... OK, I covered whole England, but my tech is far behind (didn't research one tech), gold is +0~+10 at 100% gold.

And Crusade continously draw my best troops.

So, I maintained 0% tech, and took control of 4th crusade for 187 gold (had about 750 that time), I chose al-Quds, but I found out that it actually targeted Burgandy's capital. My last Burgandian game also targeted al-Quds but ends to be my capital. This is bug.

Then my crusaders appeared near Nevers, Burgandy capital, and Burgandy was France's vassal, whose capital was Tours(strange). After a hard fight I captured Tours, and I stopped playing. Wait for further debugged version.

If Burgandy found Nancy, it will be hard. slower growth and research (Besancon can get barley on 1st turn), barbs, French, and far from Marseilles and Iberia. North is too troublesome at early stage, so I suggest focus on south.

Just started an English game, I found it very hard. Although I got Caen and Calais at start, used Chester - Bristol trick to elimenate Welsh early, and gave Edinburgh to French as peace price(which will definitely be razed by barbs soon), then found Inverness on fur hill, and another city SE of moorland sheep, WW of Edinburgh (combine with Inverness, I could cover Scotland with 10 culture points)...... OK, I covered whole England, but my tech is far behind (didn't research one tech), gold is +0~+10 at 100% gold.

And Crusade continously draw my best troops.

So, I maintained 0% tech, and took control of 4th crusade for 187 gold (had about 750 that time), I chose al-Quds, but I found out that it actually targeted Burgandy's capital. My last Burgandian game also targeted al-Quds but ends to be my capital. This is bug.

Then my crusaders appeared near Nevers, Burgandy capital, and Burgandy was France's vassal, whose capital was Tours(strange). After a hard fight I captured Tours, and I stopped playing. Wait for further debugged version.

Thats odd, with 750 gold you must have been the richest Catholic. Also, do you have a savegame for the al-Quids vs Burgundy game? Besides, if Burgundy is Catholic you shouldn't be able to target them with the Crusade at all.

Contributing troops to the crusades is just too costly. I just tried a start as Portugal on Monarch. I agreed to the crusades and then lost 8 of my 12 starting troops. Then the plague hit and I lost 2 more leaving 1 of 3 cities undefended which went into unrest and flipped to Spain. A few turns later as I was trying to restock my troops, Cordoba declared war and I lost Lisbon. End of game and a complete bloody waste of time IMO.:mad:

Contributing troops to the crusades is just too costly. I just tried a start as Portugal on Monarch. I agreed to the crusades and then lost 8 of my 12 starting troops. Then the plague hit and I lost 2 more leaving 1 of 3 cities undefended which went into unrest and flipped to Spain. A few turns later as I was trying to restock my troops, Cordoba declared war and I lost Lisbon. End of game and a complete bloody waste of time IMO.:mad:

A single Crusade should never cost 8 out of 12 troops. This is a bug.

Maybe the number of troops that is going to the Crusades should be proportional to their strength (e.g. knight/lancer equals 2 guisarmes/axemen/swordsmen/trebuchets and 2.5 archers/spearmen/catapults)--this would make sure that the later civs won't get their important offensive troops going to war. And maybe don't allow specialized troops (like Portuguese Knights of Aviz and Burgundian Paladins) to go--they shouldn't be under the control of a different civ anyway.

A single Crusade should never cost 8 out of 12 troops. This is a bug.

No. It was 3 crusades in rapid succession. I lost 3 in the first crusade then 3 then 2. Including all my
Knights of Aviz.

Knights went on Crusades first, so Templars, Teutonic Knights and regular Knight class units (including Burgundian Paladins and Polish Hussars) have a very high chance of leaving.

Second come pre-knight units, such as Heavy Lancers (including UU counterparts).

Then come regular units swords and such as well as siege weapons.

Last, with very low probability, come the city defenders such as Archers, Crossbowman and I also added the Portuguese UU to that category.

When units spawn near Jerusalem, they are not "exactly" the same as when they leave. No Paladins would spawn, only regular Knights. Only Templars and Teutonic Knights are preserved (i.e. 2 Templars leave, 2 would spawn).

I decreased the number of Crusaders leaving, the odds on how leave and so on. Jessiecat shouldn't see that happen again (also, station troops in the cities, this decreases their chance of leaving).

I really hate when i fail to spread state religion in a just conquered city. My troops just showed them who is the boss and they "eat" (or where does it go?) my missionar?

I agree that you loose far to much troops to crusades when you only have a small army. Later, with large armies, it's no problem, but just after start a crusade will most likely destroy my civ at emporer.

England 1263, i have 1 faith point and -10 You refused to give as tribut with the Pope, i couldn't afford a single of many crusades yet.

bye Myri

Thats odd, with 750 gold you must have been the richest Catholic. Also, do you have a savegame for the al-Quids vs Burgundy game? Besides, if Burgundy is Catholic you shouldn't be able to target them with the Crusade at all.

Try yourself. Open WB, get you 9999 gold, take control, target al-Quds, then you
'll find out that's actually Burgandy's capital -- the first civ. This is bug.

OK, I see that logic behind knights leaving first for Crusades. (The Children's Crusade was a tragic joke) So maybe make sure the number of troops is proportional to the number of cities you have, which makes sense.

And I think I'll pass on playing until we get our Golden Age back from capturing Jerusalem, which is kinda important playing emperor. :D

Try yourself. Open WB, get you 9999 gold, take control, target al-Quds, then you
'll find out that's actually Burgandy's capital -- the first civ. This is bug.

Yes you are right, everything would work so much better and bugs would be resolved so much faster, if I learn how to use the WB and start doing something by myself.

I mean it is so much easier for me to wait 10 or so minutes for England to load, play around for another 30 turns to the second Crusade, edit stuff in the WB, make the save game and start working on the code to find the bug and try to fix it. Compare how little time this is as opposed to your long and tedious: observe a bug, load an autosave from 2 - 3 turn earlier, repeat all of those 2 - 3 turns, save right before the bug appears and post the save.

In a related matter, AP: don't hold your breath.

Yes you are right, everything would work so much better and bugs would be resolved so much faster, if I learn how to use the WB and start doing something by myself.

I mean it is so much easier for me to wait 10 or so minutes for England to load, play around for another 30 turns to the second Crusade, edit stuff in the WB, make the save game and start working on the code to find the bug and try to fix it. Compare how little time this is as opposed to your long and tedious: observe a bug, load an autosave from 2 - 3 turn earlier, repeat all of those 2 - 3 turns, save right before the bug appears and post the save.

In a related matter, AP: don't hold your breath.

Aw, sorry. Just not in the mood of upload because it was late and I was tired. I shall be more cooperative next time.

Aw, sorry. Just not in the mood of upload because it was late and I was tired. I shall be more cooperative next time.

Sorry about the rant, but modding can be very frustrating sometimes. Savegames and screenshots make my live so much easier.

Sorry about sounding ungrateful, in fact I'm having an extremely fun time playing RFCE. I appreciate all you've done for RFCE, I only wish I knew how to program and had the extensive historical knowledge you guys have. :blush:

Sorry about sounding ungrateful, in fact I'm having an extremely fun time playing RFCE. I appreciate all you've done for RFCE, I only wish I knew how to program and had the extensive historical knowledge you guys have. :blush:

Your feedback is very valuable.

From very early on, we (the coders, at the time sedna17 and I) decided to make as much as possible "C++ implemented, Python controlled". The reason was that C++ code is fast and Python is very easy to edit/modify, all you need is NotePad, WordPad or I recommend WordPad. The vast majority of the balancing consists of simply tweaking numbers in several arrays in Consts.py and mostly RFCEBalance.py. Both files are in RFCEurope\Assets\Python

Whenever you see a nation that is too powerful or too weak, you can just open the file and change some of the balancing parameters in there. When we created this, we wanted to make it so that even people with absolutely no coding skills or whatsoever can work with it. Myri did some modifications recently, I don't know how much coding experience she has, but it did not take her long to figure it out. So basically, give it a try.

Myri did some modifications recently, I don't know how much coding experience she has, but it did not take her long to figure it out. So basically, give it a try.

Worst part was to figure out my editor shows your carrige returns as weird symbols instead of starting a new line. As soon the file was reformatted it starts to make sense. Can you please use carrige returns the windows editor understands?

I modified earlier civs, just not civ 4, so not really new for me.

Where can i find the names of buildings, troops, variables, ..., to use in the file? At the moment i can only copy what is already used in the file.

bye Myri

I recommend WordPad.

Carrige return problem solved :)

bye Myri

Carrige return problem solved :)

bye Myri

It is just Microsoft's stubborn refusal to recognize and work with anything non-Microsoft. This is one of the reasons why I am using Linux.

Done 2/3 UHV of Cordoba.

Got 1 galley and 1 berber cavalry in Tanja. Found Cadiz. 3 missionaries went to: Cordoba, Valencia, Barcelona(conquered). And I flipped a skirmisher.

Used skirmisher to raze Toledo, pillaged existing villages. 1 axeman died on conquest of Barcelona. Razed Toulouse as well. With these money I managed to get vaulted arches on AD 912 (turn 104). Built RC in 6 turns, bulbed civil service, revolution. Built Shrine of Uppsala in Tanja, Cluny in Cadiz. Built manor house and courthouse after madrassa and house of wisdom. Cordoba built smokehouse, market and Marco Polo after Round Church.

Focused on food at Cordoba, Cordoba grew to 13 before 1000AD, that did the first job. Roll some gold for mercenary after civil service, merc conquer Pamplona, fight against Spain. I played defensive, no major attacking force, only some guisarme stepped on my land not pillaging. Portugal joined the war against me soon, but no real threat either. Stability was shaky (-15) to unstable.

After some turns, Spain mysteriously collapsed, and my stability got back to shaky. Then I conquered Lisbon and Coinbra, capitulated Portugal. Portugal collapsed anyway after about 20 turns, maybe because I didn't give back their cities. I razed Sinos(SSW of Lisbon) afterward.

Tech straight toward Philosophy, then patronage. Tech trade value was bad but what else can I choose. It's 1323 now, I have no rival in Iberia, I founded Hanseastic League and Knight Templar, I can just focus on stability and settle north-west Africa in last minute.

I felt no fun with this tech rate in this version. Hope for next!

OK, so what seems to be really off balance (at least for emperor) is the maintenance cost. If you have to go razing cities to get your gold (and have enough troops/ships flipped to you) to do it, that's just wrong. Why not give Cordoba a Berber cavalry to start with?

Also, it must be a hit-and-miss for vaulted arches (most of my games the AI builds it way before 900 AD, even before I think about trying to make Cordoba the largest city, trying to build my smokehouse).

OK, so what seems to be really off balance (at least for emperor) is the maintenance cost.

Agree, since Alpha 1 for all early civs if you have to get tech.

bye Myri

Hungary is great fun in Alpha 6, 330 tech is really slow :) But no problem to get the Golden Bull for Free Religion and the other UHVs are not worth to mention.

Was a bad idea to accept Bulgaria as Vasall, couldn't avoid to fight them (no problem in Civ 4 but it feels very unrealistic) for most territory, else i had to conquer areas where civs respawn, get all isles (yeah, seepower hungary) or russia :)

bye Myri

france with 330 tech is incredibly hard to play.
you have to trade bronze working for calendar (otherwise the pope will research it himself or get it from burgundy) which you still need to research in order for him to give it to you. and from that you will always be the very last in tech. also burgundy is way too belligerent and will declare war on you almost immediately (seldomly doing something of worth though, but trying to get them to give you some tech by peace is almost impossible and if you keep dijon and/or lyon your maintenance costs and tech costs are off the chart. also since the closest luxury ressource is in burgundy territory their respawning is such a bugger.
i usually go for razing them but having all your cities start with 1 population and no buildings sucks too...

or maybe you re really lucky and get some luxury ressources (i got once silver or gems i think) on one of the hills around paris.

I've said it before and again, the problem with emperor is that city maintenance is too high. It may have been OK for RFC, but since RFC E has a much bigger map and sometimes you spawn with a large empire (or have to conquer a large empire like France), your research in emperor (without the money and research wonders) will inevitably lag behind. E.g. Cordoba's empire at spawn is almost twice as big as the old Spain in RFC, and I get -25 gold per turn (i.e. your gold is gone in 8 turns unless you go razing cities which is very unnatural).

This needs to be fixed for emperor to be a little bit more enjoyable.