View Full Version : Civics rework 2.00


Isotope
Jun 22, 2009, 12:11 PM
Well then, another rework, this time complete and with pedia descriptions excepting religious civics; based on this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=324055)

I made this with orbis 0.23d+ leaders enhanced
Changes: Note that I'm only posting the effects, not the prereq techs nor pedia entries.
HU=High Upkeep
MU=Medium Upkeep
LU=Low Upkeep




Lawmaking:

-Despotism LU: +20% military production; +50% war weariness; +1 unhappiness/city

-Royal Family HU: +50% gold income, culture and espionage in capital; +25% war weariness

-Oligarchy MU: +1 specialist/city +2 espionage/specialist

-Theocracy MU: Unlimited priest, No temples are required to build disciples (you still can build temples of course); -50% war weariness; +1 unhappiness/ non state religion; +1 happiness with state religion

-Republic MU: +50% hammers in capital; +25% war weariness

-Democracy LU: +3 happiness/city (largest ones) -25% war weariness; +25% culture in all cities; Periodic events of elections to gain new traits

Executive:

-Barbarism LU +1 happiness/military unit; +2 unhappiness in cities

-Free cities LU: No city maintenance; -20% military production; +1 unhappy/ military unit stationed in the city.

-Bureaucracy HU: +100% number of cities maintenance modifier; Improvements (Cottages) upgrade +100% faster; +25% worker speed

-Adhocracy LU: -75% number of cities maintenance; +2 health/city; Can hurry with gold; +1 unhappy/city

-Vassalage LU: +3 free of upkeep units; +25% free of upkeep units according to your population.

-Empire: HU: +6 experience/ unit; +1 gold upkeep for each unit; +50% war weariness; +10% gold income; +1 happiness/ military unit

Social Structure:

-Tribalism LU

-Apprenticeship LU: -25% GPP; -15% corporation maintenance; +1 hammer/ workshop; +1 hammer and -2 wealth/ town

-Slavery LU: Can hurry with population; +35% enslavement chance.

-Feudalism LU: -1 food, +2 wealth/farm

-Crusade: Untouched

-Caste System MU: -25% GPP; Unlimited Artist, Merchant, Scientist, Priest.

-Meritocracy HU: +50% GPP


Economy:

-Autarchy MU: No foreign trade; No foreign corporations; +1 trade routes. Considerable relationships bonus to other autarchic states.

- Rural Based LU: +1 food, -1 wealth/farm; -1 trade routes.

- Tolls and Permits MU: +1 wealth from hamlet/village; +1 wealth, +1 food from town, enclave

-War Economy HU: +20% military production, +3 free of upkeep units; +10% free of upkeep units based upon your population;Military units produced with food.; -1 trade routes; -25% base wealth (all modifications from building apply to the initial value decreased by 25%) from trade routes.

-Classic Capitalism LU: -25% corporation maintenance; +1 trade routes; +1 coastal trade routes. Slight relationships bonus to other capitalist states.

-Mercantilism: HU: +25% corporation maintenance; No foreign corporations; +50% base wealth income from trade routes(all modifications from buildings apply to the initial value increased by 50%); Huge relationships penalty to other mercantilist states.

- Colectives HU: No corporations; No foreign trade; +35% hammers and food, -100% wealth from trade routes (means for trade routes of original income of at least +3 wealth, you get +1 hammer and food instead, for routes of +8, double) ; +2 happiness and health from Grove; +1 happiness from elder council. Big relationships bonus to other states with collective propiety.

Dominant Values:

-Brotherhood LU. +3 happiness from Dreptus Brewing House; +1 Happiness from Brewery; +1 happiness from Tavern.

- Leadership LU: -25% GPP; +50% great general emergence; +2 happiness from palace; +1 happiness from summer and winter palace.

-Utilitarism MU: +1 happiness from multiple buildings. Total happiness of +10 if all the buildings are built.

-Entrepreneurship MU: Unlimited Merchant; +1 gold/specialist; +2 wealth from workshop; +20% gold income.

-Knowlege HU: +20% GPP; +10% science income; +1 science and culture/specialist; +1 happy from library and academy; +35% war weariness; -20% military production. (I know, overpowered).

-Contribution LU: +1 health/city; +1 happines from state religion; No non state religion spread; -50% war weariness.

-Public Order HU: +1 happy/military unit; allows to conscript units; +1 happy from courtshouse and basilica; +50% war weariness.

-Freedom LU: +100% culture in all cities; +2 happy in all cities; -25% war weariness; Makes neighbours' citizens jealous; Unlimited artist; +4 unhealthiness.

There are also religious civics in Orbis in a different branch, I think I left them untouched. At least, I changed Sacrifice the Weak name to Pawns and removed gpp penalty and science bonus income.

Also, added a hated civic a good portion of major leaders and corrected initial civics problem.

Version 022
-Royal family renamed to Monarchy. Now +100% gold, culture, espionage in capital.
-Assembly renamed to Republic, no longer war weariness penalty. +50% hammers and wealth in capital.
-Oligarchy espionage bonus from specialists doubled. Low upkeep.
-Theocracy war weariness bonus halved (-25%), unhappiness per non state religion in a city doubled (+2 unhappiness). Now thocracy also gives +25% unit production in state religion cities.
-Democracy now triggers Elections. Removed culture and war weariness bonuses. Now it gives a plain +3 happiness in largest cities.
-Added civic to dominant values: Pacifism. Gives +50% great general emergence in cultural borders and +50% experience gained from combat inside cultural borders. +50% war weariness penalty and 2 turns of anarchy.
-Removed +20% gold bonus from Entrepreneurship. Now it gives +2 gold/specialist instead of +1. It was an easy choice with no second thought becaus of that bonus.
-Classic capitalism now gives +2 trade routes in coastal cities, removed the general bonus of +1 trade routes.
-Tolls and permits now gives a plain +1 wealth from village, town and enclave. No trade routes penalty nor food from towns. Upkeep changed to low.
-Removed +10% gold income from Empire civic. Halved war weariness penalty (now +25%)
-Adhocracy now gives -50% number of cities maintenance instead of -75%.
-Meritocracy GPP bonus reduced to 35% from 50%. A big GPP bonus with no penalties was an obvious choice.
-Lowered relationships penalty of Mercantilism. (Don't know why but AI never uses it, at least never seen it even from Hannah who has it as a favourite civic)
-Removed +20% military production from War economy civic.
-Knowledge no longer gives +20% GPP. Halved military production penalty (now -10%) and reduced war weariness penalty to +25%.
-Freedom now gives +50% general culture income, provoques anger (doubled anger provocation) and allows unlimited artists. Removed happiness and war weariness bonuses. Removed +4 unhealthiness.
-Doubled happiness bonus from Dreptus Brewing House given by Brotherhood civic.
-Numerous pedia changes
-Added hated civics for the rest of the leaders.

Version 023

-Added three specialists dependant of civics: Oligarch, Slave and Officer.
*Oligarchs give a plain +2 wealth and +1 culture but take an extra point of food. They also generate great people points but without altering great people probabilities.
*Slaves give +2 hammers and +1 wealth but drain -1 culture and GPP each turn.
*Officers give Great Commander points (not Great General) but drain -1 gold each turn.
-An enslaved unit from combat can be added to a city as a permanent slave. (this is the only change to UnitInfos.xml)
-Oligarchy now allows unlimited Oligarchs. Removed all other bonuses.
-Slavery allows unlimited Slaves. Medium upkeep. The rest of the bonuses are conserved.
-Added +25% GPP to Republic and Democracy.
-Empire allows unlimited Officers. No other bonuses touched.
-Renamed Contribution to Dogmatism.
-Reintroduced Glory civic; Scions only. Dominant Values.
-Reduced experience bonus gain from pacifism inside cultural borders to 25%.
-Pawns gives +8 wealth from Bradeline's well.
-Slumbering Coven gives +8 wealth from Aifons Isle and +2 wealth from water mana.
-Shadow Court gives +8 wealth from Tower of Eyes.
-Guardian of Nature gives +8 wealth from Yggdrassil.
-Arete gives +8 wealth from Mount Kalshekk.
-Enlightment gives +8 wealth from Mirror of Heaven.
-Purity gives +8 wealth from Pool of Tears.
-Humanism gives +6 wealth from Remnants of Partia and from Seven Pines.

Version 024.
- Added Industrialism civic. Mechanos only. +1 food and +1 commerce from farm. +1 hammer and commerce from workshop, windmill and watermill. Population consumes 1 food instead of 2. +5 unhealthiness in all cities. +2 unhappiness from Factory. Added a pedia entry for it aswell.
-War economy: Increased free support cost of units (from 10% proportional to population to 20% proportion)
-Increased Officers GPP output to 5.
-Increased commerce given by Oligarchs to 3.

Version 025
-Updated to Orbis 024b+ leaders enhanced beta3.
- Empire. Reduced exp to +4 but now gives +25% military unit production.
- Bureaucracy: Now allows to hurry with gold. -50% distance upkeep.
- Adhocracy: +100% cottage growth.
- Free cities: Removed -20% military unit production.
- Glory is now religious civic. +100% culture.
- Humanism now removes state religion.
- Removed the thing about slaves being able to join a city as slave specialists.
- Feudalism renamed to Aristocracy. Gives +3 commerce, +1 production from Castle. +1 commerce from farm. +2 culture/specialist. Allows aristocrat specialists.
- Oligarch renamed to Arisatocrat, moved to Aristocracy civic.
- Oligarchy now gives +1 free specialist and +3 espionage/specialist.
- Slaves now give +1 food (they cost less food) and +2 production but drain -2 GPP and -1 culture.
- Added Techpriest specialist +2 hammers, +2 beakers. Unlimited with Industrialism. Gives Great Engineer points.
- Meritocracy moved to dominant values branch. Gives +50% GPP.
- Knowledge gives +2 beakers/specialist.
- Classic Capitalism renamed to Free Trade.
- Freedom renamed to Liberty, changed to Society civic branch.
- Dogmatism gives +1 happiness with pagan temple. Increased health bonus.
- Industrialism unhealthiness increased to +6 unhealthy and +2 unhealth from Factory (+8 unhealthiness total)
There may be some changes I have overlooked.

Version 026
-Updated to Orbis 0.24B and Leaders enhanced 0.36.
-Changed specialists stacking in city screen to the johnsmith's alternative since there was a problem caused by adding new specialists with the vanilla way of specialist management.
-Added a new branch of civics: Leader's Role.
-New icons for some civics from RoM.
-Numerous XML changes to civics (did not track them -_-)
Unzip the assets folder in your Orbis folder in Mods/Orbis make sure you unzipped leaders enhanced previously. Notify me here if you have any problem (wrong txt entries, etc...).

dan83m
Jun 22, 2009, 02:40 PM
IMPORTANT THING: Open GlobalDefinesAlt.xml with notepad and change MAX_CIVIC_OPTIONS to 7.

can u tell me where i can find this xml??? what the address for this one??

Isotope
Jun 22, 2009, 03:31 PM
It's in orbis dirctory. Mods/Orbis

I noticed a problem with scenarios. I managed to make the scenarios start without an an error (pacifism and nationhood were deleted and there three branches of civics were renamed) but I can't play scenarios following Decius background and I get instant defeat. Is it orbis problem? I only changed xml files related to civics so I don't know where I messed up if I was the one who caused the problem

edit: mods/Orbis/Assets/XML

Isotope
Jun 24, 2009, 07:20 AM
Here's a slightly modified version. I renamed civic branches to correspond the old model in order to correct the error regarding civics when starting a scenario.
Also, some minor changes.

dan83m
Jun 24, 2009, 08:08 AM
can u put some screenshoot??

Isotope
Jun 24, 2009, 10:54 AM
can u put some screenshoot??



Another thing, since I haven't touched civilizationinfos.xml since it doesen't throw any errors if you don't add executive civics line. When starting a game you won't have any civics selected but you'll have the effects of despotism doubled. Just select the civics and make a revolution.

dan83m
Jun 24, 2009, 11:58 AM
its work with enchan. coastal city??

Isotope
Jun 24, 2009, 02:40 PM
its work with enchan. coastal city??

Partly yes partly no. Civics do not work as they are located in the same xml files. Still, all other stuff should work. You'll have to manually find civilopedia entries and paste them. Maybe a program called WinMerge could help you, google it.

dan83m
Jun 24, 2009, 04:03 PM
well i duno how to do that sorry u.u

Opera
Jun 24, 2009, 04:16 PM
It looks interesting. I didn't test it yet (I'm on a trip, so I can't really get access to a computer with Civ anytime I want) but I'll certainly, especially if it's compatible with my modmod :)

What's an adhocracy? Never heard this word before... I guess it's from ad hoc?

dan83m
Jun 24, 2009, 04:24 PM
yes ti compatible with ench coastal city too , but need to fix something like the pictures , beacuse u see a pink image to some thing

Isotope
Jun 25, 2009, 04:19 AM
It looks interesting. I didn't test it yet (I'm on a trip, so I can't really get access to a computer with Civ anytime I want) but I'll certainly, especially if it's compatible with my modmod

What's an adhocracy? Never heard this word before... I guess it's from ad hoc?

I know no more than what I have read in wikipedia when looking for civic ideas.
Adhocracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhocracy)

yes ti compatible with ench coastal city too , but need to fix something like the pictures , beacuse u see a pink image to some thing
Pink images? You mean from civics, right? Because now that I think of it, I forgot to include icons on the zip file -_-

dan83m
Jun 25, 2009, 04:34 AM
a ok well when u fix that tell me so i update mine xD

Isotope
Jun 25, 2009, 07:43 AM
Here are the icons.

dan83m
Jun 25, 2009, 12:29 PM
Here are the icons.

work fine now , but can u do something for this one??

Isotope
Jun 25, 2009, 05:14 PM
work fine now , but can u do something for this one??

Try downloading the attachement on the first post, I actualized it and it includes now icons and GlobalDefinesAlt. Maybe it would help.

zup
Jun 25, 2009, 05:49 PM
I fail to see is why the initial civics in every category have to be worthless crap you change from the first change you get. Why couldn't initial civics be viable choices even late to the game in some situations?

But I guess it gives more of a choice than my feudal contract + scholarship + guilds + agrarianism. Yes, I run those every time I play a 'normal' civ in Orbis. Other options don't stand a chance:

+1 food and commerce from farms, extra yields from whatever random castle I have in my city radii, +3 beakers and +1 gold from all my specialists (and I have lots) and reduced city and corporation maintenance. I guess those are the major points.

Isotope
Jun 26, 2009, 03:20 AM
I fail to see is why the initial civics in every category have to be worthless crap you change from the first change you get. Why couldn't initial civics be viable choices even late to the game in some situations?
A good question. I may change that.

Isotope
Jun 26, 2009, 05:53 PM
Updated. As I said in the previous post, I added effects to most of the initial civics.

Opera
Jun 27, 2009, 12:25 AM
Interesting!
Would you care to share here which HatedCivic you choose for each leader?

Isotope
Jun 27, 2009, 08:17 AM
Interesting!
Would you care to share here which HatedCivic you choose for each leader?

Excepting Balseraphs, Malakim, Mechanos, Sheaim, Scions, Sidar and Svartalfar. I'll tweak them later on.

Capria: Slavery
Sabathiel: Vasalage
Tethira: Pawns

Alexis: Democracy; favourite: Royal Family
Flauros: Classic Capitalism; favourite: Autarchy (I made him vampiric Hitler)
Kro'mear: right now hated: Oligarchy favourite: Free cities. I plan to inverse this.
Jonas: Classic Capitalism; favourite: Autarchy (orkish Hitler here) Probably change it to favourite: Mercantilism.
Seelba: Caste System; favourite: Despotism
Hafgan: Theocacy; favourite: Despotism
Charadon: Republic; favourite: Leadership
Mahala: Utilitarism; favourite: Meritocracy. Maybe i'll change this.
Thudr: Humanism; favourite: Guardian of Nature
Sirvagha: Republic; favourite: Despotism probably I'll change this to Barbarism.
Ethne: unchanged
Einion: Empire; favourite: Republic
Thessalonica: Caste System; favourite: Meritocracy
Meelais: Leadership; favourite: Knowlege
Cassiel: Theocracy; F: Meritocracy
Zodalore: Empire; F: Meritocracy
Outhe: Leadership; F:Knowlege
Menec: Utilitarism; F: Oligarchy
Tasunke: Democracy; F:Leadership
Rhoanna: Pawns; F: Vassalage
Capitain Ostandes/Uldanor: haven't changed them
Ilithiridan: Classic Capitalism; F: Collectives (combo with trader trait for +50% hammers and food from trade)
Auric: Classic Capitalism; F: Autarchy
Braeden: haven't changed him, maybe later on.
Angantios: Meritocracy; F: Leadership
Raitlor: Mercantilism; F: Collectives (same as above)
Hyborem: Public order; F: Freedom (:D)
The rest of infernal leader unchanged.
Arthurus: Utilistarism: F:Contribution
Kandros: Knowlege; F: Entrepreneurship
Vitnir: Entrepreneurship; F:Brotherhood changet F wonder to Dreptus.
Ukastra: Unchanged
Cardith: Slavery; F: Adhocracy
Lamalha: Leadership; F:Knowlege
Cith mor: Classic Capitalism; F: Collectives. Probably change it to Agrarianism to combine with Agricultural trait.
Falamar: Mercantilism; F: Classic Capitalism
Hannah: Collectives; F: Mercantilism. As far, the only leader with Mercantilism as favourite and the AI never uses it, even hers and even after changing AI weight;I wonder if it recognizes the penalty in relationships.
Laggs: Utilitarism; F: Brotherhood changed favourite wonter to Dreptus.
Palgadee: Freedom
Amelachier: Empire; F: Collectives. Mabe I'll change this.
Arendel: Undercouncil (Undercouncil is no longer hidden); F: Royal Family
Thessa: Utilitarism; F:Knowlege
Jurla/Illerveth: Unchanged; maybe later.
Garrym: Despotism; F:Entrepreneurship
Beeri: Mercantilism; F:Classic Capitalism
Völa/the other one: Unchanged, later on.
Basium: Freedom; F: Public Order (:D)

Opera
Jun 27, 2009, 11:29 AM
Kro'mear: right now hated: Oligarchy favourite: Free cities. I plan to inverse this.Well, lorewise, you probably don't want to change this. She loves Free Cities (City States in LE) because she "stole" a city from Decius' empire and thought it was nice to rule its own city :)

Some other of my leaders aren't really what I would expect from a lore perspective but I have to play your mod in order to advise what I would do (which would be just an advice of course).

Caradoc
Jun 27, 2009, 03:43 PM
So you're telling me this is a modmodmodmod? I can't wait.:crazyeye:

Isotope
Jun 27, 2009, 06:05 PM
Well, lorewise, you probably don't want to change this. She loves Free Cities (City States in LE) because she "stole" a city from Decius' empire and thought it was nice to rule its own city
Did you create all or a part of the new leaders or there's already lore written about them?

modmodmodmod
mod:crazyeye:mod:crazyeye:mod:crazyeye:mod :crazyeye:
Never thought about that but it sounds strange, indeed. Personally, I consider this a small addon rather than a mod as there's only xml changes easy to implement. If there were special effects for civics like in Thomas' War now, it would be another story.

civ_king
Jun 27, 2009, 07:44 PM
can the convention simply be a 3mod or a 4mod (modmodmod and modmodmodmod respectively) much easier to type...

Opera
Jun 28, 2009, 02:15 AM
Did you create all or a part of the new leaders or there's already lore written about them?Yes, I created all of the new leaders except Talos (which isn't added yet and is Jabie's work). You can see the lore about them here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123817&postcount=11). Many of them have something of a background story already, even though not everything is set in stone yet.
(Saralet recently got a pedia text too :))

Isotope
Jun 29, 2009, 03:32 PM
Updated. I wonder when some feedback regarding these civics will come.

dan83m
Jun 29, 2009, 03:43 PM
u must say where to install this one for soem1 who dotn know its , now i try this one

Isotope
Jun 29, 2009, 03:47 PM
u must say where to install this one for soem1 who dotn know its , now i try this one
Unpack it in Mods/Orbis.

dan83m
Jun 29, 2009, 03:50 PM
btw the problem of setting always brotherhood autarchy n the other things after the creation of the 1st city remain

dan83m
Jun 29, 2009, 03:51 PM
Unpack it in Mods/Orbis.

no i mean in ur 1st post add it :goodjob:

Isotope
Jun 29, 2009, 04:10 PM
btw the problem of setting always brotherhood autarchy n the other things after the creation of the 1st city remain

That's right, I forgot to include one of the XML files, silly of me :lol: Solved

Isotope
Jun 30, 2009, 08:16 AM
Another update.

civ_king
Jun 30, 2009, 11:05 AM
in entrepreneurship, shouldn't the 2 gold for workshops actually be 2 commerce?

Opera
Jul 01, 2009, 03:31 AM
Ok, so, checked the whole thing ingame at last!
Even though I didn't start a game per se... Unzipping your mod in my LE installation made plenty of errors I should have foreseen :lol: I'm running version .3 already (as I'm developping it :crazyeye:) so many conflicts, like leaders missing and all.

Anyway, some feedback on what I've seen in the pedia:

First, I'm happy you like my idea of boosting unique features :)

+8:commerce: for Aifon Isle in useless. I've never seen it close enough to land to be worked. It could happen (not sure though) but it's so marginal it's really not useful. I'm an OO enthusiast, so it's a bit disappointing not to have a UF boosted... The thing being that there is few OO UF I can think of...

I looked to the Hated/Favorite civics and many seemed fine... I've seen many Hated:Classical Capitalism, though... And I wonder about Membership's civics in those tags, at least in Favorite, because you already get a bonus with members of the same council...

Classical Capitalism: what about +1:traderoute: in non-coastal cities?

Specialists: you added two specialists? They don't have Great People version, do they?

Slumbering Coven: Really like that one. I don't like the +1:mad: in each city having state religion from Orbis. OO, at least to me, seems like a not-so-invasive religion.

Well, that's all for now. I would have to test it with .2beta2 in game :)

dan83m
Jul 01, 2009, 03:59 AM
strange its working fien to me , btw now its work good , soemtimes i find some "TXT NO EXPLANATION " or something like that but its ok!!

Opera
Jul 01, 2009, 06:17 AM
strange its working fien to me , btw now its work good , soemtimes i find some "TXT NO EXPLANATION " or something like that but its ok!!Nothing strange, I know why it's not working correctly ;)

Isotope
Jul 01, 2009, 10:17 AM
Ok, so, checked the whole thing ingame at last!
Even though I didn't start a game per se... Unzipping your mod in my LE installation made plenty of errors I should have foreseen :lol: I'm running version .3 already (as I'm developping it :crazyeye:) so many conflicts, like leaders missing and all.

Anyway, some feedback on what I've seen in the pedia:

First, I'm happy you like my idea of boosting unique features :)

+8:commerce: for Aifon Isle in useless. I've never seen it close enough to land to be worked. It could happen (not sure though) but it's so marginal it's really not useful. I'm an OO enthusiast, so it's a bit disappointing not to have a UF boosted... The thing being that there is few OO UF I can think of...

I looked to the Hated/Favorite civics and many seemed fine... I've seen many Hated:Classical Capitalism, though... And I wonder about Membership's civics in those tags, at least in Favorite, because you already get a bonus with members of the same council...

Classical Capitalism: what about +1:traderoute: in non-coastal cities?

Specialists: you added two specialists? They don't have Great People version, do they?

Slumbering Coven: Really like that one. I don't like the +1:mad: in each city having state religion from Orbis. OO, at least to me, seems like a not-so-invasive religion.

Well, that's all for now. I would have to test it with .2beta2 in game :)

In Classic Capitalism (maybe I rename it to Free Markets, it sounds somehow inadequate ina fantastic world with magic) I capped it a little removing the general trade route and making it add 2 trade routes in coastal cities. This way, Autarchy is more attractive for inland civs and Capitalism for coastal civs.

I tried to make some favourite civics and hated civics be antonymous.
Autarchy<----> Capitalism (Not so true, it seriously needs to be renamed)
Collectives<---->Capitalism
Mercantilism<---> Autarchy
Knowledge<----> Leadership
Oligarchy or Despotism<---->Republic or Democracy
etc...
Maybe it needs some change as it makes some leaders' preferences identical between them.

I added three specialists.
Oligarchs give generic great people points (without anltering the probabilities of the different great people), they cost another point of food (as I play with food consumption per population of 2, I don't know if it's too much when your people already consume 3 food) and give commerce (or wealth). Available with Oligarchy
Slaves drain great people points and culture but give 2 production and 1 commerce. Available with slavery or by adding a slave to a city.
Officers drain gold (-1) but give Great Commander points.
There are no associated buildings to them, only civics. I'd like to make some civic dependant buildings like in Rise of Mankind but there's no such tag in Orbis, a shame.

Yes, there aren't many UFs to associate to Slumbering Coven and Aifon Isle usually appears too far and is only accessible with City of Thousand Slums but aside from this, I don't see any other feature that could be asociated.

in entrepreneurship, shouldn't the 2 gold for workshops actually be 2 commerce?

It actually gives +2 commerce (I call it wealth, but whatever) must be a mistype.

zappara
Jul 01, 2009, 12:37 PM
There are no associated buildings to them, only civics. I'd like to make some civic dependant buildings like in Rise of Mankind but there's no such tag in Orbis, a shame.There's no tag for those in Rise of Mankind. Those buildings check the civic requirement with python code (zCivics python component).

Isotope
Jul 03, 2009, 06:43 PM
There's no tag for those in Rise of Mankind. Those buildings check the civic requirement with python code (zCivics python component).
Guess that would easen my life if I were to import it but first I'll have to learn python and it still requires meddling dlls to make it apper in civilopedia.
Right now, after managing to make everthing required to edit .cpp and .h files work, I'm trying to add three XML tags to buildings that would allow to vincle them to civics. Guess I'll have to ask some orientation sooner or later.

Updated.

Opera
Jul 04, 2009, 04:09 AM
I know it's in the same forum but would you like me to link your mod in the first posts of LE's thread? :)

Btw, why did you created your mod with LE? I mean, it's nice, but I still wonder. Was it because of the Hated civics? If so, they will be in Orbis .24 :)

Isotope
Jul 04, 2009, 04:47 AM
I know it's in the same forum but would you like me to link your mod in the first posts of LE's thread?

Btw, why did you created your mod with LE? I mean, it's nice, but I still wonder. Was it because of the Hated civics? If so, they will be in Orbis .24

If you want; yes, of course.

Because I already had it installed when I started tweaking civics :lol: And it was a pain in ass adding and changing favourite civics twice. The simplest answer is usually the correct one :lol:
But yes, I liked all the features, the hated civic system and the new leaders (portraits) so I thought it was a must have anyway, I doubt anyone playing Orbis does it without leaders enhanced because you, for now, only add things but do not remove or change original Orbis features (such as original civics, for example), at least generaly speaking, therefore your mod does not make anyone strongly disagree.

Opera
Jul 04, 2009, 10:59 AM
If you want; yes, of course.Great :D

Because I already had it installed when I started tweaking civics :lol: And it was a pain in ass adding and changing favourite civics twice. The simplest answer is usually the correct one :lol::lol: Okay!

But yes, I liked all the features, the hated civic system and the new leaders (portraits) so I thought it was a must have anyway, I doubt anyone playing Orbis does it without leaders enhanced because you, for now, only add things but do not remove or change original Orbis features (such as original civics, for example), at least generaly speaking, therefore your mod does not make anyone strongly disagree.This is certainly going to change. Well, not really (can't say why now) but still, I have some changes planned and some removing too. This is why I thought of creating plug-ins, in order to provide a much more add-on oriented base mod and some more things that tweak the game more than the base mod. I think it will be a bit of a pain if you want to mod my mod... But maybe the plug-ins thing won't work well with the players and I'll bundle it all eventually :lol:

zappara
Jul 04, 2009, 01:17 PM
Guess that would easen my life if I were to import it but first I'll have to learn python and it still requires meddling dlls to make it apper in civilopedia.
Right now, after managing to make everthing required to edit .cpp and .h files work, I'm trying to add three XML tags to buildings that would allow to vincle them to civics. Guess I'll have to ask some orientation sooner or later.

Updated.Actually it doesn't require changes to dll to make the modifiers appear in pedia - I've done that also through python. ;) Also you can add new information to civic option's help tag - those are shown in pedia and in civic screen (in BtS they haven't used them).

dan83m
Jul 05, 2009, 12:04 PM
hi need to update ur mod , its going a little conflict with the new version of orbis with patch 3.19

Isotope
Jul 05, 2009, 04:13 PM
hi need to update ur mod , its going a little conflict with the new version of orbis with patch 3.19
Yes, I'll update it in some days, maybe tomorrow.

Caradoc
Jul 07, 2009, 08:01 PM
Minor UIF problem: when you hover over a Civic to see what it does, you can't move the mouse pointer down to scroll the description. (See Bureaucracy)

Opera
Jul 08, 2009, 01:28 AM
Well, this is a problem that existed since vanilla Civ, isn't it? To scroll down, you have to be able to click on the civic... That's a bit tedious when the effects aren't shown. If you can't scroll, use the pedia ;)

Isotope
Jul 10, 2009, 08:29 AM
Updated to orbis 024b+leaders enhanced beta 3.

Actually it doesn't require changes to dll to make the modifiers appear in pedia - I've done that also through python. Also you can add new information to civic option's help tag - those are shown in pedia and in civic screen (in BtS they haven't used them).
Im initiating in python from this (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97183) tutorial. If you know of more tutorials that would suit my level and are related to civilization, I would thank if you let me know here.

Opera
Jul 10, 2009, 09:16 AM
What is the thing you want to do with civics and buildings?
And what modifiers do you want to show in the pedia?

Isotope
Jul 10, 2009, 11:20 AM
What is the thing you want to do with civics and buildings?
And what modifiers do you want to show in the pedia?

I want the tag from Unit Infos than makes a unit require a civic (Royal Guard) plus another tag that would do exactily the same (So a building could require up to two civics, similar to what is happeinng with promotions, which can have lots of promotion prereqs Ors and Ands)
That is, something like CivicPrereq and CivicPrereqAND. If you don't have the civics, ou can't build it. If you change the required civics, it either becomes obsolete just like wonders or magically disappears from the cty screen.
I want to make it show either like in RoM whith red text behind buildings' special abilities or direcly in the same line as Tech and Resource prerequisites, below "Requires" word.

Opera
Jul 10, 2009, 11:55 AM
I want the tag from Unit Infos than makes a unit require a civic (Royal Guard) plus another tag that would do exactily the same (So a building could require up to two civics, similar to what is happeinng with promotions, which can have lots of promotion prereqs Ors and Ands)
That is, something like CivicPrereq and CivicPrereqAND. If you don't have the civics, ou can't build it. If you change the required civics, it either becomes obsolete just like wonders or magically disappears from the cty screen.
I want to make it show either like in RoM whith red text behind buildings' special abilities or direcly in the same line as Tech and Resource prerequisites, below "Requires" word.Rather easy to do. The only thing I don't know yet is creating arrays (for CivicPrereqAND) but I'm going to learn that anyway... Are you already creating the tags?

Isotope
Jul 10, 2009, 06:15 PM
Rather easy to do. The only thing I don't know yet is creating arrays (for CivicPrereqAND) but I'm going to learn that anyway... Are you already creating the tags?
No.
Initially, I was tracking PrereqCivic(Or it was CivicPrereq?), PromotionPrereq and PromotionPrereqAnd making copying the way they wered done, eventually I got lost and later on I was pointed that CivicPrereqs for buildings could be done whith python. Nevertheless, I had the source Orbis files in Orbis directory so I deteted them without realizing it when I deleted old Orbis and installed the new 024 version.

xienwolf
Jul 10, 2009, 09:43 PM
If you do write such a tag I would advise you copy the AND/OR/NOT fields in Promotions instead of the ones you find anywhere else. Then you aren't restricted in how many items you list for each one.

Opera
Jul 11, 2009, 02:23 AM
Just checked what you're talking about xienwolf and those look very more complicated than the usual stuff... I guess copying them isn't a big deal but they're troubling :)

[to_xp]Gekko
Jul 14, 2009, 12:42 PM
waiting for version .36 of leaders enhanced, uh? :p I gotta say, Orbis+LE+civics rework gets truly awesome. Opera should merge this in LE imho :D

Isotope
Jul 16, 2009, 01:39 PM
waiting for version .36 of leaders enhanced, uh? I gotta say, Orbis+LE+civics rework gets truly awesome. Opera should merge this in LE imho
Right now I'm doubting between leaving the basic frameworks and only keep adding civics and changing it's effects or removing Government branch and make a new branch called Leader's Role.
I mean, lately I've been playing Rise of Mankind mod and Ive been thinking about civics finally reaching the conlcusion that leaders are far more important in Fall from Heaven. What government when all civs are ruled by leaders? (Faeryl has everyone believing that Svartalfar are ruled by Esus itself, Einion has some kind of council, Flauros/Alexis have they elitist government etc...). Leaders already conditionate your alignment and your historical relationships in case of leaders enhanced, why not making a civic branch appointing what are their role in their civ?

Opera
Jul 16, 2009, 01:51 PM
Interesting idea. However, if you do that, you may want to tie it more to leaders than to techs. What could be interesting is to add a Leader's Role category on top of the others (not removing Government) and tie it to specific leaders.

Some events could enable other civics in that category (by using the new PrereqTraitNoTech field I added), so that a Dictator could switch to a Prophet or similar when founding a religion?

And you could tie Government's civic to your Leader's Role's civic... Like if using God King, you can only choose between God or King, or the other way.

But that's just rambling :lol:

Isotope
Jul 16, 2009, 01:56 PM
I'll have to play with civics screen first to see if I can make it bigger and apperar in a higher position (Just below Autosaving...) first.

[to_xp]Gekko
Jul 16, 2009, 02:02 PM
you could check FF 051 when it comes out, they have incorporated WoC Lite which has an improved civic screen that can display pretty much anything you may want to throw at it

Opera
Jul 16, 2009, 02:05 PM
Yeah, that should be pretty easy to make it display closer to the message thing. I think it is at this height because the messages can be quite long sometimes.

About the screen content itself, since you played RoM, you should know zappara changed the screen in it. Ahwaric doesn't like it but maybe you do? According to xienwolf, it's actually better to make more categories.

Valkrionn
Jul 16, 2009, 02:25 PM
It's only better because it can scroll. :lol: I hear there are some issues adding help text to the civics with it though... Possible, but requires a line of python for each line of text?

Isotope
Jul 16, 2009, 02:52 PM
About the screen content itself, since you played RoM, you should know zappara changed the screen in it. Ahwaric doesn't like it but maybe you do? According to xienwolf, it's actually better to make more categories.
It's practical and you can see all effects well but you can't have an overview of all civics and you must scroll. Personally, I changed it to the old model that someone in modmods offered.

On second thought, there's no important need to move civics screen, just make it wider.

xienwolf
Jul 16, 2009, 06:15 PM
Anything that annoys me tends to be fairly short lived. The Civic screen changed a LOT from when WarKirby leaked a screenie of it. At this point, I struggle to find any down side to it personally. Of course, I don't play that often, so that isn't saying TOO much...

Opera
Jul 17, 2009, 06:36 AM
Another screenie maybe..? :p

xienwolf
Jul 17, 2009, 02:35 PM
Main problem is that we are talking about scrolling and mouseovers, so a screenshot doesn't really WORK to show what is up with the screen. And the fact that right now all screenshots I attempt to take are coming out pure black. But I resorted to a normal screenshot and photoshop so I could toss you something.

Top bar scrolls to the left and right, only displays small icons for the civics you currently can switch to, and allows mouseover help for any of them. Clicking on a small icon will set you up to switch to that civic, so you can control all your civics without having to scroll down, and can control up to 2 more civic categories without having to scroll over on the quickview either. Quickviews only support up to 10 options in each category, and the help information parses automatically, no silly "12 lines of python and 30 lines of DLL" for each and every possible Civic effect (and even then some weren't covered at all, like the happiness on buildings for Religion Civic)

Valkrionn
Jul 17, 2009, 02:40 PM
Oooh I like that. Very nice work! :goodjob:

[to_xp]Gekko
Jul 17, 2009, 02:57 PM
that's awesome, xienwolf. great job :)

Valkrionn
Jul 18, 2009, 01:53 AM
Xienwolf, any chance that the new screen hides civics that are civ-specific?

xienwolf
Jul 18, 2009, 02:13 AM
There is always a chance. If you want to know for yourself I would say that you should be able to tell from that screenshot and the knowledge that I am playing as the Illians and it is in about the middle of the game.

Valkrionn
Jul 18, 2009, 02:21 AM
Hmm... Seeing as Traditions, Tribal Law, and Glory aren't listed in those categories, it appears so. Wanted to make sure. :lol:

Opera
Jul 18, 2009, 04:04 AM
For once, I had it before! Yeah :cool:

Opera
Jul 24, 2009, 08:55 AM
Hi Isotope!

Just so you know, it would be much helpful if you used the Editor to make your changes. I was going to update your modmod to the current version (or rather the next) of LE but I hold off myself because it's a bit tedious.

Also, how is the update going?

Isotope
Jul 25, 2009, 08:58 AM
Sorry for being abscent. I was doing paperwork to enter university and put civ4 off for some days. I'll post an update in a few days.
Editor? Could you be more specific about this program (if I google "Editor" I doubt it will be of any use).
I'm using Notepad++ right now.

Opera
Jul 25, 2009, 09:47 AM
There's an xlsm file packed with Orbis and available in LE's thread. You can open it with Excel 2007 and do modifications on it rather than directly on the xml files. It's great to mod things easily :)

Isotope
Jul 25, 2009, 10:27 AM
I checked it. Is it just a typo or it's version 0.35beta2 ?

Opera
Jul 25, 2009, 10:43 AM
Ah, forgot to update them. Should be ok, now (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8123734&postcount=9).

Isotope
Aug 06, 2009, 03:25 PM
Updated. It seems I got late.
Regarding using xlsm. I will see. It's easier to work with xml files.

[to_xp]Gekko
Aug 06, 2009, 03:40 PM
the last version of LE is actually 0.37, will this work fine with it?

edit: and Orbis 0.24 patch C instead of B :(

Isotope
Aug 06, 2009, 03:58 PM
:wallbash:
I think it should work (downloading latest verisons of Orbis and LE) since there aren't many changes and they are not related to civics or civilopedia. It should work fine.

[to_xp]Gekko
Aug 06, 2009, 04:25 PM
care to check it out? I'll wait till you get the latest versions of Orbis and LE and wait for confirmation if it's not a problem with you :)

would it also be savegame compatible with orbis 0.24C+LE0.37? I guess not but you never know :D

Isotope
Aug 08, 2009, 06:31 PM
They work with Orbis 024C and LE 0.37alpha or, at least, don't give any errors.

[to_xp]Gekko
Aug 08, 2009, 07:04 PM
cool, thanx. I'll try it out :)

Opera
Aug 09, 2009, 03:53 AM
I'm trying it out.
However, you really update the first post :)

Opera
Aug 16, 2009, 07:07 AM
Hey, finally tried it but it seems like all the Government civics require Printing Press...
I'm interested by your changes... Don't know how yet, though.