This thread is mainly for the LoR Dev Team (at this point me Achilleszero and Alsark), to stay on the same page, and to discuss development of Legends of Revolution. It's not only for us though, this is an open thread, but the main purpose is for development discussion. The OP will also contain a list of planned development items.


Dev Items:

Opening Screen -achilleszero is on this

Music -I need to get on this

Exposing RevIdx causes -jdog5000 needs to get on this. Please feel free to post in the main Revolution forums explaining why you want greater transparency for the causes of Revolutions. Revolutions Project Forum (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=261)

More ethnic models mainly for Pathfinders and Motorized Infantry and Special Forces

Wayfinder Legend Unit (need model & button)

Modern Era Legend (not sure what to use here, but the modern era needs one more legend)

Add XML tags to allow :hammers: and :food: from trade routes to BuildingInfos Will use this to add 2 new buildings in the late game.

Find interesting Promo ideas from the History of the Three Kingdoms mod, and incorporate them to flush out Legend Units. Anything I find here that uses Python, will move to the SDK (I like having XML tags far more then hardcoding stuff into Python, will also make it more accessible to mod modders)

Create Low Spec version. I've found that since 3.19 you can actually remove and add things to the ArtDefines (this used to cause the lists in the Save game not to match, so you'd loose save game compatibility doing so). Since I can now do this, it should be entirely possible to created a reverted Low Spec version that uses default BtS art, except for the core new unit models. This will likely be my priority after getting music squared away.

Need Music for the following leaders: Hitler, Bolivar, Ataturk.

Modern Era Legend (not sure what to use here, but the modern era needs one more legend)



I haven't played the game yet, downloading now but the whole idea for Legend units is a great one. I would suggest a guy named Carlos Hathcock for you modern era legend. Not a whole lot of people know about him but if you check him out on wiki or anywhere else you can find info on him you might be impressed.

I don't know if you want individuals or units or great generals for this nit but Carlos would be a breath of fresh air I think. He is defiantly a legend. Give him a huge bonus vs infantry units and you have yourself a winner.

I haven't played the game yet, downloading now but the whole idea for Legend units is a great one. I would suggest a guy named Carlos Hathcock for you modern era legend. Not a whole lot of people know about him but if you check him out on wiki or anywhere else you can find info on him you might be impressed.

I don't know if you want individuals or units or great generals for this nit but Carlos would be a breath of fresh air I think. He is defiantly a legend. Give him a huge bonus vs infantry units and you have yourself a winner.

Just looked him up, and I have to say he's impressive. But the thing with legends is they are just that, "legends". They need to have mass name recognition, as in the majority of people that first hear its name will think "oh yeah, he's crazy badass".

The legend part of their mystique is almost more impotant than actually how good they were. Take the bismark, it was pretty awesome, sinking the hood face to face. And spawning an all out search to sink it. But it eventually went down not too long afterwards. Its the legendary "ship hunt" that the british conducted after it, and the very fear that it inspired against britain and its navy that gets it into the legend catagory. It was one of the best battleships of ww2 but I'm pretty sure it wouldnt want to go up against the USS Iowa or Missouri. Neither one of those two have a song or movie about them.

Another thing is that units in the game represent fairly large groups. One of the reasons the special forces has a low strength, being such a small group. One soldier would be a better fit for a GP or warlord.

Hathcock does seem to be an outstanding soldier. However there are several other soldiers whose records and fame surpass him. Sargeant York and Audie Murphy come to mind, and Im sure there are alot from other countries. But thats all meaningless since he can only represent one person.

A group or small detachment of soldiers would be better. Think a few dozen to a few hundred guys like most of the other legends. Except for the Red Baron, he's gota pizza named after him:lol: (and he's Snoopy's hero). But dont let me discourage you, keep brainstorming and let us know what you come up with.

Would you consider the Navajo Code Talkers "modern"? I'm not sure when the break-off point is for the Modern Age. I'd say they were pretty legendary, though. Except I'm not sure exactly what you could give them ability-wise. Maybe a soldier with some spy options. Otherwise I'm kind of drawing a blank.

I can work on a Pedia for the Wayfinder, but... what exactly is Wayfinder? :/. A Wikipedia search on it just comes up with some navigation tool (and there's no "Disambiguation" link like there normally is with a term that has multiple results), and I don't see much on Google.

:Edit: Okay, found it. We're talking about the Polynesians, as described here (http://www.wayfinders.biz/what_is.htm), right?

More specifically the epic and ancient journies that led to the colonization of the pacific islands. When everybody else still was having trouble crossing rivers.

For modern Legends how about the following:

Patton's Third Army
Rommel's Afrika Korps
The Green Berets
Delta Force

While Patton's and Rommel's armies would definatly work, the Legend needs to be either Asian or African in origin. The Middle East, US, and Europe are covered, there is a serious lack in Asian or African based Legends. There is nothing stopping a mod modder from making an Legends Pack though. And with the WoC module system that would be increadibly easy to do.

I was actually thinking of making a small addon for LoR for the masses that want a little more. But it would be small to simulate more of a patch to an expansion and not to despoil the vision of the mod. 3-4 civs, 1-2 dozen UU's, 3 Legends, and maybe a trait. Of course it would have to all be XML (as of right now, all python is to me is a big snake). Thats one problem I had with adding Bolivar, you took the only idea I had so far for a new leader!:lol: Wait, traits take python dont they. Well I guess there goes that idea.

Feel free to run with it, alot of people certainly want the addition of more Legends. As far as traits go, that's in the XML (traitInfos), but to get it to list in the Civilopedia correctly will require 3 lines of python. If you have trouble, I can certainly help you with it. It's fairly simple though, the most complex line of code is this: addTrait("ENLIGHTENED", gc.getCommerceInfo(CommerceTypes.COMMERCE_RESEARCH ).getChar(), "Art/Interface/Buttons/TechTree/Liberalism.dds")
And you probably understand that.

While Patton's and Rommel's armies would definatly work, the Legend needs to be either Asian or African in origin. The Middle East, US, and Europe are covered, there is a serious lack in Asian or African based Legends. There is nothing stopping a mod modder from making an Legends Pack though. And with the WoC module system that would be increadibly easy to do.

I think it will be easier to find medieval or earlier legends in Asia and Africa while finding industrial/modern legends in Europe and America. Legendary figures will become legendary when they live in an area that dominates the world and world culture. And while some parts of asia might become dominating in the near future again, Africa and Asia haven't been dominating in the last few ages. So I understand the requirements of the mod but I think the most likely era to find legendary Asian and African heroes will be longer ago. For instance, the Mongols will probably have some legendary units or some legendary stories in classical/medieval China, India or Japan can be a basis for legendary units.

Modern Era and Asian? I'm thinkin' Battleship Yamato, Ghurkas, or Japanese Zero.

And Congratulations on your own Subforum, Phungus. :goodjob:

Modern Era and Asian? I'm thinkin' Battleship Yamato, Ghurkas, or Japanese Zero.

And Congratulations on your own Subforum, Phungus. :goodjob:

Ghurkas is a really good idea, bestbrian. Alot more people seem to know about them than I thought would. The zero, though would be a UU if anything. As far as the Yamoto, there is already a battleship legend. Plus noone was ever really scared of it. Sure it was the biggest battleship ever with the biggest guns, but the US' battleships were far superior. Maybe if it had been lucky it would have made a legend, but it was sank by planes before it ever did anything.

Modern Era and Asian? I'm thinkin' Battleship Yamato, Ghurkas, or Japanese Zero.

And Congratulations on your own Subforum, Phungus. :goodjob:

I like the idea for the battleship yamato (biggest battleship ever, biggest guns ever, huge armor protection, took a huge pounding to destroy), but the battleship Bismarck is already a legendary unit, so I guess they can't both be in the game as legends. And these battleships were big and mean and powerful, but in the end, they didn't do anything worth remembering in WWII.

The zero is a well known fighter plane of WWII, a newer fighter class in Civ4-LoR terms than the one from the Red Baron, but is it a legend? The fokker triplanes of WWI were legendary in their performance against contemporary planes.

I don't know a lot about the Gurkha's, just that they're Indian soldiers who served in the Brittish army. Just read a skimmed a bit through their civilopedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha). They seem to have been brave soldiers, but I'm not sure whether they're legendary. Also, given that they're mostly known for their service in the British army, I'm wondering whether they'll follow phungus idea of Asian/African. But they could maybe apply.

Another one would be Japanese Combined Fleet (thinking of the carrier grouping that struck Pearl Harbor and then went rampaging through Indonesia and into the Indian Ocean).

I don't know a lot about the Gurkha's, just that they're Indian soldiers who served in the Brittish army. Just read a skimmed a bit through their civilopedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha). They seem to have been brave soldiers, but I'm not sure whether they're legendary. Also, given that they're mostly known for their service in the British army, I'm wondering whether they'll follow phungus idea of Asian/African. But they could maybe apply.

I understand Roland's concerns, but I'd have to say I disagree. I think the Gurkhas are an awesome idea for a legend unit. They are widely known (BTW they're Nepalese for the most part, not Indian although a few are from northern India) and have been collectively considered as elite soldiers since the beginning of the 19th century, when they beat six shades of sh!t out of the British East India company.

Considering they're widely recognised as the best light infantry on the face of the planet, I reckon they fit the bill for a conventional asian modern era legend unit quite nicely. True, they've had an undeniable link with the Brits, but considering that ingame Legend units can be built by any Civ with the right pre-reqs, and that Gurkhas are seen as distinctly Asian from almost anyone I'd ask (Gurkhas also serve and have served with the militaries of Malaysia, Brunei, and India, as well as a special unit of the Singaporean Police) I don't see a problem here.

I understand Roland's concerns, but I'd have to say I disagree. I think the Gurkhas are an awesome idea for a legend unit. They are widely known (BTW they're Nepalese for the most part, not Indian although a few are from northern India) and have been collectively considered as elite soldiers since the beginning of the 19th century, when they beat six shades of sh!t out of the British East India company.

Considering they're widely recognised as the best light infantry on the face of the planet, I reckon they fit the bill for a conventional asian modern era legend unit quite nicely. True, they've had an undeniable link with the Brits, but considering that ingame Legend units can be built by any Civ with the right pre-reqs, and that Gurkhas are seen as distinctly Asian from almost anyone I'd ask (Gurkhas also serve and have served with the militaries of Malaysia, Brunei, and India, as well as a special unit of the Singaporean Police) I don't see a problem here.

Oh, sorry, I didn't want to sound to negative about the Gurkhas. I did say, they might apply if Phungus doesn't mind their link to Britain.

I must say that your description of the Gurkhas makes them sound way more legendary than Wikipedia does. I had heard about them before but only vaguely and had almost no idea what they had done except help end British colonisation in their region. But since there is almost no British colonisation anywhere in the world this alone is not a remarkable accomplishment. Of course, they've fought in more battles, but I hadn't heard about those (except WWI, I had heard about that).

I also have to question your assertion that they're widely known. I have a university degree and I and most of my educated friends have heard about them but know little to nothing about what they've accomplished. I'll bet a 100 bucks that the average construction worker here in the Netherlands won't know what a Gurkha is. If I tell them it's a special Indonesian meal, then they'll believe that. Maybe it's dependent on the country, maybe they're more widely known in some countries.

On the other hand, what I just said for the Gurkha might also apply to a few of the legends which are already in the game. Don't overestimate the average persons knowledge. Many people these days don't even know when the first world war was and why it started and you'd say that a world war should be something that is worth remembering.

The Brigade of Gurkhas would be a great modern legend, or maybe the Yamamoto. The Gurkhas scare soldiers on the other side of the world, and the Yamamoto was (I think) the biggest battleship ever

By the way, the Gurkhas could also function well as a second unique unit for India (Nepal isn't in the game). There are a few civilisations with multiple unique units so why not. I think they'd best replace the rifleman in that case.

Marine - they exist, they're elite and wear a green beret (I KNOW it's the wrong green ;))

I also have to question your assertion that they're widely known. I have a university degree and I and most of my educated friends have heard about them but know little to nothing about what they've accomplished. I'll bet a 100 bucks that the average construction worker here in the Netherlands won't know what a Gurkha is. If I tell them it's a special Indonesian meal, then they'll believe that. Maybe it's dependent on the country, maybe they're more widely known in some countries.

Well we cant know everything. I surprise myself all the time with my ignorance. I consider myself fairly well versed in history and with a thouroughly self taught, but until LoR added Ataturk, I had only heard the name and couldnt tell you anything about him. He's apparently crazy famous around the world.

The gurkhas probably are more well known in other places than some. Im willing to bet that in alot of countries the average person there will have never have heard of the 1012t Airborne, but theyre in there.


Don't overestimate the average persons knowledge. Many people these days don't even know when the first world war was and why it started and you'd say that a world war should be something that is worth remembering.

Very true. Its easy to make the mistake that just because you have heard of something and you think its important, that other people should know. But yeah things like not knowing anything about world war 1 is simply mind boggling. Even more so people are starting forget things about the second one.

The Brigade of Gurkhas would be a great modern legend, or maybe the Yamamoto. The Gurkhas scare soldiers on the other side of the world, and the Yamamoto was (I think) the biggest battleship ever

Again, there is already a battleship legend, that is way more deserving of it. Maybe if the japanese and germans had switched places, it would have done similar things as the Bismarck. But it came late in the war, after the US navy had turned the pacific naval balance around. Then the US South Dakota class and the Iowa class battleships were far superior on top of the US navy vstly outnumbering the Japanese navy by the time the Yamoto and her sister came out. My point is that it needed to actually do something instead of just being in the guiness book of world records as largest battleship. But if it had actually scared anyone in the US navy, that would atleast be something, but it really didnt.

Well we cant know everything. I surprise myself all the time with my ignorance. I consider myself fairly well versed in history and with a thouroughly self taught, but until LoR added Ataturk, I had only heard the name and couldnt tell you anything about him. He's apparently crazy famous around the world.

The gurkhas probably are more well known in other places than some. Im willing to bet that in alot of countries the average person there will have never have heard of the 1012t Airborne, but theyre in there.

I've heard/read quite a lot about Ataturk. He's famous for a reason, but I know very little about the 101st Airborne. Just the name and that they were part of operation Overlord which had large scale airborne troops to hold critical road junctions. But I don't know about anything special that they did. I also don't know anything about the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Regiment. But that's probably because the American civil war is world famous in the US and not really well known outside the US.

But I do know a lot more about the older legends. Not surprisingly, I think they were chosen better. But maybe that's the problem with modern legends. We will not know whether anyone will know about them in a 1000 years. And if you're from one country, then you'll know a lot more about that countries legends. For instance, the average Dutchman will know a lot more about Michiel de Ruyter than about the 101st Airborne or the 54th infantry. He's world famous in the Netherlands.

I've heard/read quite a lot about Ataturk. He's famous for a reason, but I know very little about the 101st Airborne. Just the name and that they were part of operation Overlord which had large scale airborne troops to hold critical road junctions. But I don't know about anything special that they did. I also don't know anything about the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Regiment. But that's probably because the American civil war is world famous in the US and not really well known outside the US.

But I do know a lot more about the older legends. Not surprisingly, I think they were chosen better. But maybe that's the problem with modern legends. We will not know whether anyone will know about them in a 1000 years. And if you're from one country, then you'll know a lot more about that countries legends. For instance, the average Dutchman will know a lot more about Michiel de Ruyter than about the 101st Airborne or the 54th infantry. He's world famous in the Netherlands.

C'mon, Roland, a good Dutchman like yourself isn't familiar with the Screaming Eagles of the 101 Airborne? I'd have thought you'd be familiar with Market Garden. :lol:

Funny, I'd suggested Ghurkas back in the old thread, but I guess it got buried. I think they serve particularly well as a Legend Unit, especially since they're, for all intents and purposes, mercenaries, and not bound to a particular civ.

Not happy with that here. The Brigade of Ghurkas are as much British soldiers as the Grenadier Guards; they take the oath, and so to describe them as mercenaries is a bit insulting.

Not happy with that here. The Brigade of Ghurkas are as much British soldiers as the Grenadier Guards; they take the oath, and so to describe them as mercenaries is a bit insulting.

Yes, nowadays, but they weren't always in service to the Crown, they have served other rulers, and it is only nowadays that they're being afforded the right to settle (and gain citizenship) within the UK. Frankly, I find the way they've been discarded back to Nepal, with meagre benefits, after years of service, to be much more insulting.

C'mon, Roland, a good Dutchman like yourself isn't familiar with the Screaming Eagles of the 101 Airborne? I'd have thought you'd be familiar with Market Garden. :lol:

I'm familiar with operation Market Garden, but there must have been lots of units involved in the operation (all of which I don't know) and the operation was not especially successful (some even say it's a failure, but I think that's a bit harsh). So there's no reason to remember a unit from operation Market Garden.

Well we cant know everything. I surprise myself all the time with my ignorance. I consider myself fairly well versed in history and with a thouroughly self taught, but until LoR added Ataturk, I had only heard the name and couldnt tell you anything about him. He's apparently crazy famous around the world.

Im willing to bet that in alot of countries the average person there will have never have heard of the 1012t Airborne, but theyre in there.

I don't think the average person in any country has heard of the 1012t Airborne :lol:.

But yeah, I'm actually in the same boat as you. I knew very little of Ataturk. In fact, I hadn't really even heard the name, so you were better off than me. I did write his Civilopedia entry, though, and after writing that I really earned a LOT of respect for the man. Though I think it's a real shame he died of cirrohsis (since that's something he could have controlled). Like Abraham Lincoln would probably be less epic if we found out he died due to lung cancer from having smoked too much, for example, even if everything he did was amazing.

I have heard of the Ghurkas, but only because of Empire: Total War.

Is there some division or a famous leader of the Gurkhas? That would make it better as a legend. You can't have a whole army as a legend, can you? I mean, that would be a bit weird compared to the other legends. It would be like calling legionnaires legends instead of the legio X and paratroopers legends instead of the 101st Airborne.

OK, so how about this idea for the Enlightened trait:

Non State :religion: still produces :culture:
Revolution penalty of Non State :religion: halved
+5% :science:
Specialist produce +1 :science: & :culture:
Double production of monestary, observatory, laboratory


Also I'm thinking about giving Pikes -10% vs Archery Units.


Thoughts?

I'm not the best at balance, so I don't have much of a right to talk, but being one who isn't fond of using specialists, I'd like the trait much less like that, personally. Then again, I probably only liked it to begin with because of how powerful it was, heh. Balance-wise, what you have there is probably better (but I wouldn't know).

I tried a specialist economy once. I failed majorly at it. That's why I stick to good old cottages, and I'm not sure how much a 5% science boost would help with that.

OK, so how about this idea for the Enlightened trait:

Non State :religion: still produces :culture:
Revolution penalty of Non State :religion: halved
+5% :science:
Specialist produce +1 :science: & :culture:
Double production of monestary, observatory, laboratory


Also I'm thinking about giving Pikes -10% vs Archery Units.


Thoughts?

I think giving specialists a bonus in science (or gold or espionage points) at the start of the game is a bit scary and will in my opinion be overpowered. I'll explain what I mean.

Games are often decided mostly at the start of the game. All the mistakes that you make there and all the great moves that you make there will be multiplied in effect throughout the rest of the game. Great persons are very cheap at the start of the game and thus it is very attractive to focus on getting a few of them fast. For a relative low investment, you can get a few great persons which translates into a few technologies and thus a technology lead. That's why specialist economies do great at the start of the game. 3 science per scientist can at this stage still compete with the undeveloped cottages and the bonus in great persons produced translates in a few extra technologies.

4 science per scientist as offered by this trait (and also extra science for other specialists) would likely be stronger than cottages for a while and on top of that the early extra great persons resulting from a specialist economy would make this trait hugely powerful for specialist economies. I think this will be too powerful. It would disturb the precarious balance between specialists and cottages.

Also note that the AI cannot run a specialist economy and thus won't really benefit from the science bonus to specialists like a human player could. That is true for more traits but still it's a negative in my opinion.

The other bonuses are no problem in my opinion. Why not make it +10% science and leave out the science bonus for specialists? It would seem like a useful trait then.

I'll react to the -10% vs archery units in the other thread.

Also note that the AI cannot run a specialist economy and thus won't really benefit from the science bonus to specialists like a human player could. That is true for more traits but still it's a negative in my opinion.

The other bonuses are no problem in my opinion. Why not make it +10% science and leave out the science bonus for specialists? It would seem like a useful trait then.


If Roland is right about the AI not being able to run a specialist economy, then I think the boost in specialist science would be bad for the trait. Maybe going back down to 10% science would be better. I think Enlightened is such a good and well thought out trait that it would be a shame to nerf it to where it was either too weak or only the human could use it right.

OK. That also will save me quite a bit of SDK work. I'll tweak it down to +10% science in the next build and hope that has the proper effect. I want Enlightened to be a top tier trait, but as it is right now it seems people think it's better then philosophical, I want it to be even with that trait.

OK. That also will save me quite a bit of SDK work. I'll tweak it down to +10% science in the next build and hope that has the proper effect. I want Enlightened to be a top tier trait, but as it is right now it seems people think it's better then philosophical, I want it to be even with that trait.

Hm... well what were people saying about the trait back when it used to be 10%? Were people saying that that was too weak?

Music -I need to get on this

Oh, also, I have a LOT of New Age / Atmosphereic music on my computer, which fits the Civ 4 theme of mostly non-vocalized music. I could comb through that for you and transfer some songs over to you if you'd like. Problem is we'd probably have to get permission from the artist, Deuter.

OK. That also will save me quite a bit of SDK work. I'll tweak it down to +10% science in the next build and hope that has the proper effect. I want Enlightened to be a top tier trait, but as it is right now it seems people think it's better then philosophical, I want it to be even with that trait.

I think any trait that straight up boosts science will be the top tier trait. Enlightened does seem to be more balanced than most other "Scientific" traits that Ive seen.

Enlightened, no matter how you tweak the science boost, will always start off more powerful than anything else. After 10 techs you will be 1 tech ahead, assuming equal footings and same cost of techs. Now the question will be will can Philosophics GPs make up for that in the late classical era onwards.

How hard would it be to make Enlightened have this ability:

Ancient = 5% science
Classical/medieval = 10%science
Renassaince to Future = =15% science
and it always has its other abilities.

I assume that would be a little complicated involving SDK and python.

Hm... well what were people saying about the trait back when it used to be 10%? Were people saying that that was too weak?

Nobody said too much back then, but there wasnt as many people reporting either. I actually, partly because Im paranoid, thought it was too powerful when combined with financial.

How hard would it be to make Enlightened have this ability:

Ancient = 5% science
Classical/medieval = 10%science
Renassaince to Future = =15% science
and it always has its other abilities.

I assume that would be a little complicated involving SDK and python.

That would just feel like an unweildy hack to me. It doesn't really fit with the design of other traits.

Ancient = 5% science
Classical/medieval = 10%science
Renassaince to Future = =15% science
and it always has its other abilities.

I assume that would be a little complicated involving SDK and python.

Yeah, that probably would be complicated, but if that's at all possible then that would be great.

:Edit: Heh, nevermind.

That would just feel like an unweildy hack to me. It doesn't really fit with the design of other traits.

Yeah it would be kinda wonky. But say if some one wanted to make a trait that got bigger with eras is that something that is possible? (and both of you guys type way too fast for me:crazyeye:)

The AI gets bonuses per age (on about everything) when you're playing on the higher difficulty levels, so a bonus per age is not unheard of.

I do understand the wish to limit the science bonus at the start of the game. At the start of the game, your cities are producing science without any multipliers so a 10% bonus is a 10% bonus. Near the end of the game, you best science cities will have all the science multipliers and will be producing science at 200% or even more (with an academy or Oxford U.) So a 10% bonus is then only increasing science with around 5% (relatively).

Personally, I don't really have a problem with that as for instance the financial trait offers 1 commerce on top of 2 commerce cottages at the start of the game which is a huge boost and it offers 1 commerce on top of 8 commerce cottages at the end of the game which is useful but not that great anymore.

If you all are really in favour of a bonus that starts decent and increases during the game (when people become more enlightened ;) ), then I'd suggest to give a 5% science bonus on top of the 4 regular science buildings (library, observatory, university, laboratory), so that these all increase science with 30% instead of 25%. Would be a bit similar to how charismatic increases the happiness effect of a few buildings.

This might be a bit weak during a long period of the game when you don't have a library yet in a majority of your cities or during the long period where you only have a library. So maybe 5% science boost plus this building effect would be better.

You could argue that it is nice when you can do something to use your trait better (by building these buildings sooner when you're enlightened). But I personally don't really have a preference.

Good idea Roland. That is a simple way to limt the science increase by age, but if you think the +15% science is too much wouldnt +25% at the end of the game also be too much? Or, was the +15% too much too early?

Good idea Roland. That is a simple way to limt the science increase by age, but if you think the +15% science is too much wouldnt +25% at the end of the game also be too much? Or, was the +15% too much too early?

There are two reasons that a 15% bonus at the start of the game is (a lot) more powerful than a bonus that slowly increases from 5 to 25%:

1) The start of the game is the most important part of the game. A large bonus there will allow you to get a head start which you can expand during the rest of the game. A head start typically multiplies in effect during strategy games because you will sooner get military technologies to exploit against your enemies and sooner get economic technologies to expand on your head start.

2) At the start of the game, your research bonuses are zero, meaning that a 15% bonus would increase science from 100% to 115%, a relative increase of 15%. At the end of the game a 25% bonus in a city with the 4 science buildings would increase science from 200% to 225%, a relative increase of 12.5%. If the city would also have Oxford University and an academy then science would increase from 350% to 375%, a relative increase of 7.1%.


So a 25% bonus at the end of the game is at a less important moment and of relatively less effect than a 15% bonus at the start of the game.

But as I said before, I don't really have a preference between the flat 10% science bonus and the slowly increasing variant. I just mentioned it as an option.

I dont think they were really enthused about my increasing Enlightened ability. For now i guess its better if it could be balanced in the manner thats being employed at the moment. Simpler is better a lot of times.

It has given me an idea for fixing one of tsentom's traits, though

Although Roland, Youre earlier discription of it makes it sound way better than when I made it up of the top of my head. Almost made it sound like I knew what i was doing.

I dont think they were really enthused about my increasing Enlightened ability. For now i guess its better if it could be balanced in the manner thats being employed at the moment. Simpler is better a lot of times.

I agree, simpler is often better. If a simple set of rules can lead to deep gameplay, then you've designed a good game. If a set of rules needs to be read ten times before you understand how it works, then you should be wondering if you're still playing a game or if you're busy filling in your tax forms. ;)

It has given me an idea for fixing one of tsentom's traits, though

Although Roland, Youre earlier discription of it makes it sound way better than when I made it up of the top of my head. Almost made it sound like I knew what i was doing.

:lol:

As far as I've seen, you have a good intuition about game balance or at least one that I largely agree with. :) I'm just a bit more mathematical in my approach to game balance.

I dont think they were really enthused about my increasing Enlightened ability. For now i guess its better if it could be balanced in the manner thats being employed at the moment. Simpler is better a lot of times.

It has given me an idea for fixing one of tsentom's traits, though

Although Roland, Youre earlier discription of it makes it sound way better than when I made it up of the top of my head. Almost made it sound like I knew what i was doing.

May I ask which trait from Tsentom you have in mind and how to change it? I have been looking for some extra traits that are balanced for the add-on with the extra leaders (I need more traits otherwise there is way to much double combos).

Specifically the resourceful trait and maybe the strategic trait. Both are powerful (most especially resourceful) and could benefit from slight nerfing. I do think that even if I were to nerf Strategics upgrade bonus, that it should get a 2nd boost like the other traits.

I think that that mercantile is fine the way it is. Possibly just slight changing of its values.

Of course I know nothing of python yet. I have more of an idea of what I would fix with the traits than actually how to fix them.

Im not telling you which ones to pick, just some suggestions as what needs work. I guess that they all coould work, but the others just need more then the ones Ive mentioned.

Yeah that is true. Like I mentioned in the other threat of Legends and Leaders, I was thinking for strategic maybe something like 25% or 20% cost reduction and then a building bonus for units for example or a promotion free for mounted and/or armor units (to symbolize the use of mobile warfare during ancient but also later eras as highly strategic (think alexanders divergence to main focus from hoplite/phalanx to cavalry).
I appreciate the suggestions though, especially since I sometimes find it hard to balance thinks without extensibly playing.

Specifically the resourceful trait and maybe the strategic trait. Both are powerful (most especially resourceful) and could benefit from slight nerfing. I do think that even if I were to nerf Strategics upgrade bonus, that it should get a 2nd boost like the other traits.

I think that that mercantile is fine the way it is. Possibly just slight changing of its values.

Of course I know nothing of python yet. I have more of an idea of what I would fix with the traits than actually how to fix them.

Im not telling you which ones to pick, just some suggestions as what needs work. I guess that they all coould work, but the others just need more then the ones Ive mentioned.

Could you copy over those traits over here, please? Resourceful and Strategic, that is.

Alsark, here is the thread where the traits we are talking about appear:

Tsentom's Traits

Phungus: How goes the Legend "spell type" abilities. Does the idea still look feasible, or have you even had time to look into it yet?

Alsark, here is the thread where the traits we are talking about appear:

Tsentom's Traits

Phungus: How goes the Legend "spell type" abilities. Does the idea still look feasible, or have you even had time to look into it yet?

Thanks... hm... I guess I'd have to see them in action first. I don't think I'd be a huge fan of strategic just 'cause I don't mind taking a few turns of a dip in research to update my army (then again, I tend not to have a very large army, either). I'm also not sure I'm a fan of a trait that has an effect that only takes place at the beginning of the game (and a lot of those traits seem to center around that). Resourceful seems powerful as well as useful, though.

I'm sure they'd both be good additions. My only concern would then become if we lose a little bit of balance and/or people become agitated that their favorite leader was changed, trait-wise.

Well this is all hypothetical talk for modcomps of LoR that people might make. More specifically one that Berenthor wants to do. He started his own brainstorming thread here. We should continue the discussion there: Leaders and Legends add-ons thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325731)

I want to get pretty indepth and specific about the next (and really only major thing left) development project: Unique Legend Promotions. I've started it's own thread for discussing this:

Legends Promotion Discussion (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326066)

Ok since this is mostly the dev teams thread, Id figure Id ask here.

Phungus and Alsark (or anybody else that cares): I could use your input on this go 'round of leader switches. Im afraid we are slap out of military traits, and for that matter, i could use one more spiritual. But this is what I have switched so far after doing some reading up on these guys:

Abu Bakr: Org/Spi (no more military traits so he got this)
El Cid: Cha/Spi (ok with this one)
Xerxes: imp/ind (ok with this one)
Napolean: Agg/Imp (seems fitting)
Zara: Cre/Org (back to vanilla traits to accomadate other switches)
Franz: Cre/Phi (just luck of the draw)
Boudica: Cha/Org (absolutely cant nerf the celts anymore than this, both leaders have been stripped of their traits too many times)
Jan III Sobieski: org/pro (last great king of poland, the polish Justinian, gets the worst one. Really need ideas for him)
Qin: Imp/Pro (really hated to put him back to BtS version. Tried really hard to take some of the protective away from EastAsia when making the original lists. But Imp/Pro really doesnt fit Xerxes, or Napoleon, or anyone else)

Seems fine to me. I'd rather have El Cid be Agg/Spi, but I'm not sure what you'd do with Monty then...

Seems fine to me. I'd rather have El Cid be Agg/Spi, but I'm not sure what you'd do with Monty then...

My thoughts exactly but there is nothing else to describe with Monty. And he has one of the more unique personalities in the game and it fits his traits. Also is an anchor of the game one of the few that people might actually object over, as everybody hates him but they love having him in the game as is. Same can be said for Shaka. Both these guys have some tasty looking traits that would go good for other leaders. But they are quite stuck as they are.

Also just had a moment of clarity. Well sort of. Protective, no matter how much I try to pretend its a military trait when doing these list, just really isnt military. Or anything else really. It needs something to symbolize unity amongst and actual protective nature of one's people. Not just military protection. Not wanting anything powerful, anything extra would help keep protective form kicking it in the bottom of the trait gene pool.

Also just had a moment of clarity. Well sort of. Protective, no matter how much I try to pretend its a military trait when doing these list, just really isnt military. Or anything else really. It needs something to symbolize unity amongst and actual protective nature of one's people. Not just military protection. Not wanting anything powerful, anything extra would help keep protective form kicking it in the bottom of the trait gene pool.

You could increase the effect of military units on the revolution index of cities for protective leaders. If these people value protection that much then they should act like it. However, revolutions are a optional game element so this will not affect the trait in games without the revolution component.

Phungus here is new FPK and XML for next release.

New FPK
219880

READ ME:
*All the new fixes in art have been tested in game. After all the unit optimization, the FPKwent below 500MB! After adding the new Alex(19MB), it went back up. I used different compression on lots of the leader's dds and got it back down to 491MB. I didnt go as far as theCoyote with optimizing Alex, stopping at 11MB. Its probably the sweetest looking, most detailed LH ever, so I figure cutiing it by 8MB was enough.

*Only things changed in ArtDefines are the several new greek units and changed all old references of frontiersman to pathfinder. Also got rid of noshader references in pathfinders since those actually didnt exist.

*UnitInfos, UnitsClassInfos, and UnitArtStyleTypes only changes are frontiersman to pathfinder references

* ArtDefinesLH, CivInfos, and LHinfos all include 4 new LHs. In LHInfos ElCid is Montezuma personality (maybe he should be tweaked to be slightly less crazy than monty?), AbuBakr is Napoleon Personality, and Xerxes is Alex personality. Gave them favorite religion/Civic and music for thier civ.

*There are 4 text files for pathfinder name change: CIV4GameText_Civilopedia_BTS_LINE1408, CIV4GameText_Civilopedia_Units_LINE
188, CIV4GameText_Strategy_LINE150, CIV4GameTextInfos_Objects_LINE2648. They are only the specific entries in each XML file that pertain to pathfinder so as not to mess with any changes anyones else has made. Line number where entry is found is in title of text files.

* CIV4GameText_Objects_BTS text file just has new entries for the 3 new leaders.

* All these text XML entries need the new Finnish tags put on them.

* The DebugDLL is really bugging out about Hirohito references in the DiplomacyInfos. I keep forgetting to erase that, so it needs to be erased. It doesnt seem to care about any of the other leaders being gone.

Thanks.

I finally got the new install script done. Also the icon is very slick :)

I've got to sleep, and will be busy tommarow, so will probably be a full nother day before updating. I really should update now (only about half of the new downloads are downloading the patch, which means many users are ending up with a game with a critical bug in it). But I can't do it now, too tired, and wol't be able to tommarow that I can see. So if you don't see me post saying I'm compiling the installer, feel free to upload any other art fixes or anything else you think should be included in 0.9.5.

So was all that stuff save game compatible, or would you have to readd those cut leaders.??

Not worried about save game anymore.

Just decided to rebuild LoR, going to cut it down to a state with no ethnic art (except what is in default BtS), and go with a LoR light build, and then add in ethnic art for a full build. While doing this I have decided to cut all pure flavor units, such as the Daimyo.

OK, have LoR light build. I need to go out for a bit though, and no time to compile it into an installer or upload it. But it'll be up tommarrow sometime.

LoR light is up. Now need to start adding in artstyle by artstyle, and checking every model for a full build. This is stripped as bear as is possible. Just core gameplay changes. 100MB of it, or about 2/3 of of the mod is the leaderheads, leaderheads take up alot of space.

http://www.filefront.com/13999161/Legends-of-Revolution-light-test-v0.9.5-Setup.exe/

Have you thought about using static leaderheads? I prefer them personally.

Unsure if this'll fly, but what about the VC? (sorry if there's any nam vets here). You could make them basically infantry that looked like a normal asian artstyle worker, that is until it was time to attack and out pops the AK. Maybe give them Woodsman I and II and Drill I and II and make them able to start wars with their attack. To clairify, you wouldn't need to declare war to attack with them, but attacking with them would then cause a war to start (that always was something that was annoying to me, why must I declare war to drop a nuke on you? wouldn't the fact that I just nuked you let you know that we were no longer at peace with one another? kinda like, surprise, oh did I forget to mention that I want your head on a pike? :mischief:)

Unsure if this'll fly, but what about the VC? (sorry if there's any nam vets here). You could make them basically infantry that looked like a normal asian artstyle worker, that is until it was time to attack and out pops the AK. Maybe give them Woodsman I and II and Drill I and II and make them able to start wars with their attack. To clairify, you wouldn't need to declare war to attack with them, but attacking with them would then cause a war to start

Theres already a VeitCong UU. And the VC is really a large group for a Legend. It needs to be a group that would be better defined by a single unit than your overall army.

that always was something that was annoying to me, why must I declare war to drop a nuke on you? wouldn't the fact that I just nuked you let you know that we were no longer at peace with one another? kinda like, surprise, oh did I forget to mention that I want your head on a pike? :mischief:)
:lol:

Alright, wasn't sure, haven't played LoR in a bit (I keep getting that stupid error that only I get, it is very annoying). Overall, a great mod though.

Alright, wasn't sure, haven't played LoR in a bit (I keep getting that stupid error that only I get, it is very annoying). Overall, a great mod though.

What error would that be? And have you been getting it every vversion?

Well, if i take a stack to attack a city, when the attack is over, I lose all of the city bars and it doesn't give me the option to examine city/burn baby burn/install new governor. sometimes clicking the center mouse button helps, sometimes Alt-Tab helps and sometimes the only way to move on is to press restart on my desktop and load the last autosave. If I load the last autosave though, I will get the error again if I attack the same city with the same stack. Very annoying, I sent phungus a savegame and he checked it and found nothing wrong. So, I'm boned.

Here is a working prototype of the opening screen. It still can be improved alot but I figured Id post it to see if any body has any suggestions or to see if there are any problems

*Out of the ground units only the main Spartan is animated. I can very easily animate all the rest if it would look better. 54th is not animated because they are almost always behind the menu options. Can also reposition everybody very easily.

*Need better looking torches for the peasants.

*Could use better angle of camera. Need opinions.

*Left and right backgrounds seem empty, maybe terrain features or more units.

*Currently it is at 16500 poly. Can cut some if necessary. But all in all it is not much more complicated than some leadrheads.

To install just rplace the interface/main menu folder with mine and it should display.

220831
220832

:goodjob: Very nice, at least from the pic.

Leo's workshop looks weird without a floor or shadows. Surely it can't hurt to animate a few more of the prominent figures (you have the 3d models, why not animate them?. Other than that, excellent work!

Looks good AchillesZero :goodjob:

I really don't like having an official release with a critical art bug in it as the main download. So I'm going to do a 0.9.4b release sometime tomarrow, will be 0.9.3 save game compatible. Mainly it's just so I'm not going to be stressed about having the viking longboat art bug in the main release, and have a patch be required. I was going to wait on the 0.9.5 stuff, but that'll take a while, haven't even started working on full yet after makeing light.

achilleszero do you mind if I use your current intro screen in it?

I really don't like having an official release with a critical art bug in it as the main download. So I'm going to do a 0.9.4b release sometime tomarrow, will be 0.9.3 save game compatible. Mainly it's just so I'm not going to be stressed about having the viking longboat art bug in the main release, and have a patch be required. I was going to wait on the 0.9.5 stuff, but that'll take a while, haven't even started working on full yet after makeing light.

achilleszero do you mind if I use your current intro screen in it?

Go ahead. It was just meant to be a working prototype. But I guess we really need to see if anyone has any problems with it. I cant imagine they will, but i suspect at least 1 guy out htere will manage to get a MAF on the main menu.:lol: The updated screen will take me a few days, but it will look much 10x better.

Let me know when you are starting on your end of the ethnic art. I am moving right along. But there is signifigant cross over with alot of the civ ArtStyles. So far what I have chcked viking, vietnamese, sumerian, and then readded old Asian and old mideast. Since they cross over with Viet and Sumer. As I found it easier to 1st do the base style IE: asian before I did Vietnam, so I wouldnt have to filter out asian and then go back and readd asian to them. Plus I have already seperated each ArtStyle, so you wont have to go through that.

It's possible I might not get to the ethnic art before you finish :mischief: I'm about done with my game playtesting and then I'll start on the SDK stuff I want to work on. When I'm done with that I'll jump into the art, but I'm guestimating that'll be about 1 to 2 weeks based on how things are going.

It's possible I might not get to the ethnic art before you finish :mischief: I'm about done with my game playtesting and then I'll start on the SDK stuff I want to work on. When I'm done with that I'll jump into the art, but I'm guestimating that'll be about 1 to 2 weeks based on how things are going.

Yeah I might be done in a week, providing I dont have to work much in the coming days. This SDK stuff, does it include the Legend promotions? If so I guess I should start to think about what the buttons should look like. I take it the original buttons for them are some sort of chinese symbol.

Yeah, they currently use chinese symbols. I wouldn't start thinking about that until I implement the code. I'm not sure which XML tags I plan on including yet. My first focus on the SDK will be exposing information like the number and max damage of bombards, and Revolution penalties/bonuses in the civics. After that I'll work on promotions, so it's a bit off yet, and also I'm not sure what stuff I'll include. I'm at the point in my game where I have the map won, now just trying to actually achieve victory as soon as possible. Basically I just got steam power and everyone else just got knights and stuff, I control about 1/3rd of the map, but my only good target would be my long term ally, which I hate attacking them, even if they are AIs (I mean they don't attack you at friendly). Interestingly enough I played at Monarch and this has really been a breeze, no reloads at all, even when I lost my prized 300 unit to some BS. Anyway I'm at the point of the game where it gets kind of boring, but I'll try to push through so I can start on the actual modding soon.

but my only good target would be my long term ally, which I hate attacking them, even if they are AIs (I mean they don't attack you at friendly).

Me too. Ive always wanted more to diplomacy to where there are actual reasons to attack someone other than for total domination. Yeah everything boils down to winning, but it would help with the immersion of the game. Something like events where this civ is persecuting an ethnic group and youve threatened them with war if they dont stop. Or a peice of territory that is claimed by multiple civs and finally a war is declared over it. Vanilla makes meager attempts at this but fails. Dont think Ive ever seen anything like that in a mod.


Interestingly enough I played at Monarch and this has really been a breeze, no reloads at all, even when I lost my prized 300 unit to some BS.

Argggghh not the spartans (well I guess they died in real life). I hate that. When I start to try and learn python, Im goin to try and modify this respawn promotion by theJ and see if I cant make it a little less broken.

Thats the only time I reload is when a warlord or something dies. I only play for fun now (even though I havent played in months). The minute I won my first emperor game I started to play casually, so I dont mind reloading. Ive even been known to WB things for the AI if they are getting screwed.

My first focus on the SDK will be exposing information like the number and max damage of bombards

Tiny question. Isn't the max damage of units already in the xml? I've seen such an entry in CIV4UnitInfos.xml called iCombatLimit . Or maybe you're talking about something entirely different...

Argggghh not the spartans (well I guess they died in real life). I hate that. When I start to try and learn python, Im goin to try and modify this respawn promotion by theJ and see if I cant make it a little less broken.

Isn't the alexander unit in the official Warlords mod 'Alexander the Great' a unit that will revive after death? If you were to add such a thing, a revival period where the unit is unavailable and a loss of at least half the xp and all the promotions (you reselect promotions with left over xp) would balance this a bit. Another rule where the unit would permanently die if it was below a certain number of xp would balance it further.

Tiny question. Isn't the max damage of units already in the xml? I've seen such an entry in CIV4UnitInfos.xml called iCombatLimit . Or maybe you're talking about something entirely different...

Everything I plan on doing at first will be taking things already in the SDK and exposing them through CvGameTextManager.cpp so that the information is available to the player. In RevDCM there are tags in civic infos which adjust revolution effects like city distance, yet this information is not available. Same thing with the number of units and the max damage from collateral damage, all it says is "Can Cause Collateral Damage", I intend on exposing the exact values here from already existing stuff. It's actually pretty simple stuff, but again, I'm not a programmer, so it's not like this is stuff I do regularly. Anyway once I get that done, then I'll look at adding the promotion code from HotTK mod in order to flush out the Legends. First though I really just want to get some information exposed, should make revolutions more intuitive to the player.

Everything I plan on doing at first will be taking things already in the SDK and exposing them through CvGameTextManager.cpp so that the information is available to the player. In RevDCM there are tags in civic infos which adjust revolution effects like city distance, yet this information is not available. Same thing with the number of units and the max damage from collateral damage, all it says is "Can Cause Collateral Damage", I intend on exposing the exact values here from already existing stuff. It's actually pretty simple stuff, but again, I'm not a programmer, so it's not like this is stuff I do regularly. Anyway once I get that done, then I'll look at adding the promotion code from HotTK mod in order to flush out the Legends. First though I really just want to get some information exposed, should make revolutions more intuitive to the player.

I misunderstood making it accessible in the game to making it accessible in xml.

It's good to see more of what is happening inside the game which is hidden from the player (for no good reason).

By the way, wouldn't the BUG mod also want to show the player the maximum damage and maximum collateral damage from units? I think there is a possibility at collaboration here. The BUG mod typically doesn't want to hide things that can easily be read in the xml or in strategy articles. The revolution elements are of course specific to this mod (and several other mods).

Well I'll release my source code, as always. I was definately going to bring it to gliders attention, because it makes merging my source easier the more of it he includes in RevDCM by default. You have a point though, once I get it done I'll let EF know so he could include the collateral damage stuff in BULL.

Isn't the alexander unit in the official Warlords mod 'Alexander the Great' a unit that will revive after death? If you were to add such a thing, a revival period where the unit is unavailable and a loss of at least half the xp and all the promotions (you reselect promotions with left over xp) would balance this a bit. Another rule where the unit would permanently die if it was below a certain number of xp would balance it further.

I forgot about him, guess I should go get CivComplete:sad:. Your idea is almost exactly what I want to do to GG's and Legends in my own game. TheJ's and Tsentom's respawn and survival promos seemed like good starting points for me me to figure out how to do that, but since Firaxis already has something like that I guess I should see what they have.

I forgot about him, guess I should go get CivComplete:sad:. Your idea is almost exactly what I want to do to GG's and Legends in my own game. TheJ's and Tsentom's respawn and survival promos seemed like good starting points for me me to figure out how to do that, but since Firaxis already has something like that I guess I should see what they have.

I haven't actually played the scenario, just heard about it. I don't know precisely how the Alexander unit works.

I played it but it was like 4 years ago, cant remember what the alexander unit actuallydid. I do remember they didnt even make a different graphic for it, it was just an ancient warlord. Wasnt too impressed with it overall. But it did have great concepts to it. Same goes for alot of the official scenarios. The BTS ones are a little better though.

nevermind

Well I've now succefully cloned the MaxStartEra tag from BuildingInfos into UnitInfos, so Legends will now have a max start era they can be built in just like regular wonders. I have also now gotten all the Integer Revolution Bonuses and Panalties from civics to display in the Civilopedia. I just need to hear back from jdog about floats, for some reason I'm just getting garbage values when calling the floats. The last thing I'd like to do is get the CityDistance modifiers from buildings and techs to display in the civilopedia. Here is the issue with this though, the Revolution CityDistance modifiers are all in Python, whereas if I expose them it'll be in the SDK and I don't like referencing things that aren't direct. It doesn't matter from an end user perspective, but in the long run if city distance calculations are changed, things wol't match, which I'm not too fond of. Specifically the values are assigned in the XML, and these are in turn called from Revolution.py and the city distance functions are set up. I would then set up functions in CvGameTextManager (which compiles into the gamecore) to display these same values from the XML. The thing is if Revolution.py is changed and city distance is calculated differently CvGameTextManager wol't know. I just don't like that setup. Pretty much stuff that CvGameTextMangager references come from the functions they pertain to, so it keeps up if things are changed, I don't like the idea of them being disparate.

Just a note Spearman are changing to :strength:5 with +50% vs Mounted and Phalanxes are going to replace spearman.

Just a note Spearman are changing to :strength:5 with +50% vs Mounted and Phalanxes are going to replace spearman.

What spurred this dicision? What is going to be the phalanxes/hoplites stats now? Dont mess up my hoplites!!

The'll be pretty similar to how they are now. 5:strength: +50% vs Mounted, +50% Vs Axeman. I think they'll still be an insanely strong UU, as they wo't have a counter early. Eventually their counter will be swordsman, but just bring along some axes.

What spurred the decision is I consider Spearman to be Heavy Infantry, and Axeman to be light infantry. Plus I think this will fully round the balance.

You have nerfed the axeman with the goal to reduce the strength of the early game rush with a complete axeman stack. I considered this a positive change. However, the axeman still had a huge vulnerability (mounted, esp chariots), but these spearman are barely vulnerable to axemen and can just as easily be used to attack cities. And now they get the support of siege units.

Won't this result in a replacement of the axemen rush by the spearmen rush?

Ancient and classical age spearmen were great against mounted units and could face most melee units when in their formation (phalanx). They weren't so useful when not in formation, so they weren's so useful to attack (walled) cities.

I would make the balance: spearman narrowly beat axemen, axemen narrowly beat swordsmen (esp cost efficiently), swordsmen beat spearmen. Spearmen get a penalty to attack cities so that the don't dominate the pre-swordsman stage too much. The penalty must be fairly large as spearmen can get the city raider promotion. Axemen should be better to attack cities so that they stay useful. Mounted stay as they are now. Fits historically and leads to balanced gameplay.

OK, scrap that. The early game unit balance is good as is anyway.

I'm also considering adding a new early tech: Debt (reqs -Agriculture & Mining, prereque for Priesthood, Currency, & Feudalism, Will allow Slavery civic, same cost as BW). Thoughts?

OK, scrap that. The early game unit balance is good as is anyway.

I definitely liked the basic direction you were heading with the spearman, phungus. But that 1 little strength point seems to jack things up. Several things would have to be changed. First spearman change, then xxxx needs to be boosted, then yyyy needs chnging. The original axeman nerf was genius, but that has also stood the test of time, alpha through v0.9.5.


I'm also considering adding a new early tech: Debt (reqs -Agriculture & Mining, prereque for Priesthood, Currency, & Feudalism, Will allow Slavery civic, same cost as BW). Thoughts?

Sounds good. Will other tech's cost be adjusted to fit it in? And will slavery be the only thing it opens up directly?

...that 1 little strength point seems to jack things up. Several things would have to be changed. First spearman change, then xxxx needs to be boosted, then yyyy needs chnging.
Yeah, it just got way to complex trying to think of tweaks around it, and I realized it's not necessary things work well as is.

Sounds good. Will other tech's cost be adjusted to fit it in? And will slavery be the only thing it opens up directly?
I'd like it to do something else, but slavery is the only thing that makes sense (any ideas?). Having it open up Priesthood, Currency and Feudalism will make it a crucial tech anyway. And slavery is the strongest civic overall in the game, as nothing compares to it until the late game, so it'll definatly be a tech you need. In gameplay I just don't like how right now BW does so much, slavery, axeman, spearman, and chops are all contingent on it currently. Plus the whole concept of debt I think is one of the most significant inventions in human history.

I'd like it to do something else, but slavery is the only thing that makes sense (any ideas?). Having it open up Priesthood, Currency and Feudalism will make it a crucial tech anyway. And slavery is the strongest civic overall in the game, as nothing compares to it until the late game, so it'll definatly be a tech you need. In gameplay I just don't like how right now BW does so much, slavery, axeman, spearman, and chops are all contingent on it currently. Plus the whole concept of debt I think is one of the most significant inventions in human history.

Nothing comes to mind. I cant see any wonders or buildings that could be moved and make sense being under debt. Maybe a new type of building??

If nothing else gets attatched to Debt, then I would think that it should be a little cheaper than BW. Even if slavery is the most powerful civic, its still one civic, and BW is really expensive. Adding another expensive tech in the early game might throw things off.

OK, scrap that. The early game unit balance is good as is anyway.

Getting that balance exactly right is so tough. It's good that you announce it so that more people can think about it. I understand that you don't want to tackle all the issues that adding 1 point of strength would create, but I also agree with achilleszero that your basic idea for spearmen was interesting (heavy infantry, base unit for ancient combat). It would fit better in real life history. The problem of it all interacting with eachother is just tough.

I'm also considering adding a new early tech: Debt (reqs -Agriculture & Mining, prereque for Priesthood, Currency, & Feudalism, Will allow Slavery civic, same cost as BW). Thoughts?

A good way to weaken bronze working and a good concept for a technology.

I agree with achilleszero that it may be a bit cheaper than bronze working as bronze working without slavery offers more than your new debt technology. The first line of technologies might be a good basis for its cost (agriculture, mining and such).

The position in the tech tree seems good. But many interdependencies in the tech tree will lead to less options, less choice in tech paths. Why do you want it to be a prerequisite for priesthood? It could be, but is it really necessary?

By the way, I never know if such discussions should take place in the balance thread or this thread. When I first saw this thread I thought of it as a developer notes thread but it starts to contain more discussion now.

BW is a pretty darn expensive tech (and rightly so). If Slavery is split off from it then the cost needs to be lowered.

Frankly, I never had a problem with BW being such an uber-tech, as it was pricey and highly necessary.

I'm also considering adding a new early tech: Debt (reqs -Agriculture & Mining, prereque for Priesthood, Currency, & Feudalism, Will allow Slavery civic, same cost as BW). Thoughts?

My thought here, with all respect, is that it seems an unnecessary change that you are throwing in last minute. I was under the impression that there was a very finite list of stuff to test and check before you went to 1.0, and completely new stuff out of the blue, this late in the dev cycle, seems a little dilettantish.

Stay on target, Gold Leader, stay on target!

On the other hand, I've seen many polls where bronze working was considered the strongest technology and about every player will research it before many cheaper technologies.

When the project is finished is up to Phungus but I can imagine that he wants to limit the changes like you suggest.

I'm not a huge fan of a ton of dependancy. Specialized research is groovy.

As for BW, I like the idea of Debt and then BW over somewhere else. BW is the uber tech and that needs to change... or you could be a *blank* and just make it more expensive OR make the whippings less effective.

Apologies if this has been suggested before but what about ol' Che as a legendary unit? He is already the icon for the revolutions part and in the same way there are few African/Asian legendary units there are no S.American legendary units ingame I can think of. I picture him as an early SF type unit, invisible to most units, able to cause mayhem behind the lines, etc.

As for the Ghurkas it's a great idea; The units history and accolades certainly give them legendary status. But as an elite unit they are on a par with something like the French Foreign Legion which only makes it to UU. To us Brits the Ghurkas certainly fit the bill but to other countries they would see their own elite units in the role. Thats not to say I don't want to see them in game though. ;)

Cyrano

Zerver made a Ghurka unit, but lost it - does anyone have it?

Zerver made a Ghurka unit, but lost it - does anyone have it?

You might want to post that in the Unit Request thread.

Phungus, what kind of timeline are we looking at for the next release?

I was thinking the end of the weekend. But it can be delayed, 0.9.4b is a good solid build. I'll probably patch it to a c version if it's delayed beyond the weekend though, but that's no big deal. In fact I wouldn't mind waiting as jdog just responded to my post and I might be able to create some XML Rev modifier tags in TraitInfos now.

Roger. That will give me time to finish double checking the unit art. Im half way through the 2nd passover, looking for guys I inadvertantly skipped building. Just placing them in WB this time. So far only found three that I had missed. Dont know if the city art will be done though. Tonight or tomorrow, Im going to test out Geo's new Cultural Citystyles and see if I get any log errors. He added alot and I just finished ripping through the high poly models. He also replaced a few things. MOst notably the Native cities that were giving errors. They are replaced with the native stuff from colonization so i would hope they work ok. So if everything comes back without errors Im wondering if it would be faster to just put his new stuff in rather than rebuilding the old Cityplot.

So long as polycount and texture sizes are decent, there is no problem with that. I'm just aprehensious because I know old versions of ethnic city styles were not built with performance in mind.

So long as polycount and texture sizes are decent, there is no problem with that. I'm just aprehensious because I know old versions of ethnic city styles were not built with performance in mind.

Well this one is better than the last. There are high polycounts and big textures but not as many. Theres only 3 things that I wont be able to fix, so those are getting thrown out. And Ive already resized and optimized everything else to within acceptable linits.

He also has new improvement art. Like farms with buildings and what not. Not sure I will leave those in as usually theres hundreds of farms on the map

Yeah, no point in the tile improvements like farms. But we could move those to the Blue Marble add on.

Yeah, no point in the tile improvements like farms. But we could move those to the Blue Marble add on.

Good idea. So the way you explained the way you have Blue Marble, if I just put the improvement art in the BM FPK it will automatically call on it if they choose BM on install, as long as they are named the same?

Another thing: I dont fully understand how a mesh group in the UnitInfos and a mesh group in teh UnitArtStyleTypes interact. The unit in question is the settler. In the UnitInfos the mesh group has 2 meshes where 1 is required and then the last one has 2 required, for a total of 4. In most of the ethnic settlers, wolf had it set up with anywheres up to 6 or 7 meshes. But in the game Im only seeing a mesh of 4 units, and they are whichever are the first 4 listed in the UnitArtStyles. So the game seems to be ignoring all the others, and even ignoring the name that is listed in the UnitInfos. So it would seem this is one of the few places that the game doesnt freak out if everything doesnt match.

EDIT: Just checked the pre-LoR Lite xml and the settler UnitInfos has a much bigger mesh group, so that would explain part of it. Still curious how the 2 different files dont care about exact names when everything else does.

For the farms an such, yes packing the art in the BM fpk is part of it, another part would be to add the PlotLSystem file if it has a modded one, which I think it will, because it will need to to have different ethnic plot art. But that's no problem the way the script works is that it it installs the folder assets as an add on when BM is selected, BM currently only has the fpk in it, but I can create a folder structure with an XML folder and a buildings folder that can have the modded PlotLSystem file in it as well. The install script LoR uses is quite robust.

As for unit mesh groups, I answered this in the VD thread. Basically take a look at the Motorized Infantry entries in the Ethnic Unit Art file and you'll figure it out, much simpler then explaining it.

Yeah I just saw that 20 seconds after I posted. I was going under the assumption that for a unit to have a multi-mesh setup I would have to define it first in the UnitInfos. And that the UnitArtStyle mesh entry was only for if I wanted them to change in the eras, but ultimately it was the UnitInfos was the one that gave it a mesh group. I already made the "horde" Gallic warrior with just the UnitInfos mesh entry.

So I take it the mesh entries in the 2 mentioned files are totally independent, and I could just do it to a random ethnic swordsman by making a mesh in the UnitArtStyles for it.

Correct.

Once a mesh group is defined in the Ethnic art it overrides the UnitInfos definitions, so the only things that matter are the ArtDefinesUnit refferences.

Correct.

Once a mesh group is defined in the Ethnic art it overrides the UnitInfos definitions, so the only things that matter are the ArtDefinesUnit refferences.

I confuse myself by reading too much into the XML and making assumptions about who controls who.

Apologies if this has been suggested before but what about ol' Che as a legendary unit? He is already the icon for the revolutions part and in the same way there are few African/Asian legendary units there are no S.American legendary units ingame I can think of. I picture him as an early SF type unit, invisible to most units, able to cause mayhem behind the lines, etc.
lol - I feel like Che is more a Great Spy or Great General...

Legendary units should be truly epic groups, I think.

lol - I feel like Che is more a Great Spy or Great General...

Legendary units should be truly epic groups, I think.

Well as regardless of what we Americans might think, I would think that Fidel Castro would be a good Great General.

Just released a new test build, lots of under the hood stuff in this, and wanted to get it out there for the other devs to build off of. Not much is different for people are working on development using 0.9.5 light test, but there are a few minor changes I figured it was worth it to release, especially with Alsarks text stuff.

Download Legends of Revolution 0.9.x6 (light test) (http://www.filefront.com/14156731/Legends-of-Revolution-light-test-v0.9.x6-Setup.exe/)

Added minor fix to Naval Bombard from RevDCM 2.51a
Exposed Civic Revolution Effects
Cloned Civic Revolution XML tags into TraitInfos, added some RevTrait functionality
Added Maximum Start Era to UnitInfos, Legends now have a maximum Start Era like Wonders, and also have a hurry penalty, again like wonders.
Added Emancipation Requirement to 54th Infantry
Minor Tweaks to Units, Crossbow now 60 hammers, and no longer targets mounted last, nerfed Hungarian Cannon
Tweak to Serfdom, Farms +1 Hammer, -2 Health, Hight Upkeep, +100% Revolution Distance Penalty
Fixed Critical Art Bug (bad refference to non existant String "Trooper") in the 0.9.5 Test Build
Gave Barbarians a few starting techs to bring in line with Standard BtS (makes Raging Barbarians a threat again). Be aware that this makes the Barb Civs that spawn in the early game too strong, so it is strongly recommended that you do not choose the options Challenge Barbarian World with Barbarian Civ. Barbarian Civ will be tweaked for the official release to make these two options playable together, but in the current test build it is nigh impossible to deal with.



Once jdog gives me some more info on tweaking Barbarian Civ so that it's more balanced in the very early, and later game (personally I think it is perfect in the Mid-Late Classical era, but is too strong in the Ancient Era, and too weak afterward, and is gamebreaking in the current release if you select the Barbarian World Challenge option with Barbarian Civ) I'd like to release an official 0.9.6 build. So mainly Alsark and achilleszero try to get your stuff in relatively soon. Usually takes a jdog a couple of days to respond, and if he doesn't I'm sure I can figure something out in a couple of days to tweak things anyway.

And achilleszero, here is a debug dll for 0.9.x6:
http://www.filefront.com/14156837/debug-dll.zip/

Also 0.9.x6 is save game compatible with the 0.9.5 LoR light test build.

Thanks for the update, phungus.

Putting on my amateur hat, +100% Revolution Distance Penalty for Serfdom sounds quite powerful, at first glance too powerful an effect, but then I am somewhat ignorant of the underlying mechanics. Would +50% do? And then some other malus to pick up the slack?

@Alsark and achilleszero

I'd like to update soon, so about how close are you guys to having the art and text done?

And achilleszero please seperate out the PlotLSystem custom art, I'm going to use that in the Blue Marble Add on.

@Alsark and achilleszero

I'd like to update soon, so about how close are you guys to having the art and text done?

And achilleszero please seperate out the PlotLSystem custom art, I'm going to use that in the Blue Marble Add on.

Im done, Im just really paranoid about basically adding 1200 units. First go round had 20-30 mistakes, that I found. (not bad, and mostly due to odd named things like infantry_med, spearman_eurasian, and female_archer). 2nd quick WBonly check found 5 that I had completely missed in building the first time. SO theres still a possibility that theres one sneaking around thats going to cause a crash. Been rechecking and fixing things this whole week. Also gota change a few things in LoRLite, so I will have 2ULs either late, late tonight or in the morning.

Actually not sure how to seperate the improvements and still be able to use them. They are not named the same like in BM. There are era specific models. So I have no clue how we will make the Plot system only call on them when BM is installed..?.?

We just wol't use a custom PlotLSystem file in LoR, unless BM is installed, in which case it will include the PlotLSystem file along with the fpk it includes. I see no reason to have a custom PlotLSystem file in LoR, that's more of a Blue Marble thing.

As for the art not being bugged, only way to check is to run through each artstyle one at a time, making sure you can build each unit in a city and then make sure it functions properly when World Buildered on the map, but that's really only for units. Are you concerned about the CityLSystem file? That will be harder to check.

We just wol't use a custom PlotLSystem file in LoR, unless BM is installed, in which case it will include the PlotLSystem file along with the fpk it includes. I see no reason to have a custom PlotLSystem file in LoR, that's more of a Blue Marble thing.

As for the art not being bugged, only way to check is to run through each artstyle one at a time, making sure you can build each unit in a city and then make sure it functions properly when World Buildered on the map, but that's really only for units. Are you concerned about the CityLSystem file? That will be harder to check.

No not too concerned with the CityLPlot system. There are 2-3 buildings that I am trying to figure out why they are invisible but absolutely no craches or assert failures anymore. This time Geo completely redid his own CityL (read: organized and not a complete jumble), so things seem smooth.

The units have been checked like 3 times now. So ive probably covered everything, just paranoid.

So you can make it to where the PlotL xml is only installed when blue marble is. Will that be complicated?

So you can make it to where the PlotL xml is only installed when blue marble is. Will that be complicated?
Yep, that's the plan. It's not complicated at all. I just will set up the filestructure for the Blue Marble add on so that it Makes an assets folder (which means it copies itself into the assets folder of LoR, it already does this, but currently the only thing in it is the BlueMable.fpk), in that assets folder it'll include an XML folder with a Buildings folder inside that, and the PlotLSystem file in there. It's pretty easy, the install script is designed for such things with the add on system I wrote for it. We can even set up some of the Unit Art to be Blue Marble only to allow for higher quality and more system demanding models. In fact I already plan to do this with some leaderheads, like the "improved" Surveyamen (or however you spell it).

Here is the improvement folder and the PlotLSystem file. Didnt install BM last time and Im in the middle of working on LoR, otherwise I wouldve added the folders myself. Hopefully you have the BM.FPK handy, or it will have to wait till later when I can reinstall to get it.
223135

I was just thinking about making a LoR "Heavy" kinda like how you just mentioned.

OK, so there is no ethnic art in there? Looks like just different graphics for the improvements.

OK, so there is no ethnic art in there? Looks like just different graphics for the improvements.

Thats all the PlotL deals with is improvements. Or are you talking about CityLSystem, and you want to put the whole ethnic city styles in with BM?

No, I just figured that the PlotLSystem would have different era and ethnic improvements, but there isn't that much art there to have that, so I guess not.

I do know that there are ethnic forts and pastures in there. There are like 2000 references to artstyle in the PlotLSystem but 90% of that is for cottages (it points to city art to make ethnic towns). But there are references to artstyle for farms but those also utilize the city art nodes (either in Geo's new stuff or BtS's city and/or improvement folder). I think that he has it to where improvements like farms and pastures and such are supplemented with new buildings. So a large portion of the ethnic side of improvements is tied up with the rest of the structure art. Even though theres not a lot of art in that one folder, with the PlotL, there will be a substantial increase in art that will get placed on the map.

Phungus, is there any changes with the ArtDefines,unitInfos,ArtstyleTypes of Light test 0.9.6 from the last light build? Just want to make sure im not missing or overlooking a change to something before I start ULing all this. (Isee the crossbow,Hungarian Cannon, and 54th changes)

EDIT: specifically the UnitInfos and CivilizationInfos. Those 2 files are 1KB bigger than mine and I cant tell the difference. I have only made a small fix in both so I would need to know if you changed anything in those 2.

No, nothing has changed. The only change I currently have is corrected some messed up python code in the last test build, you shouldn't notice if python exceptions are off (but this exception probably does break revolutions, I'm surprised no one has reported it).

Someone just released a Korean Art Pack:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=330281

This means Korea gets a second UU, the Turtle Ship or Khobuson, replaces Galleass, but available earlier, or could be stonger, not sure. I defer to achillileszero here to set it up in in the UnitInfos using one of the unique models there that should work :mischief:

Someone just released a Korean Art Pack:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=330281

This means Korea gets a second UU, the Turtle Ship or Khobuson, replaces Galleass, but available earlier, or could be stonger, not sure. I defer to achillileszero here to set it up in in the UnitInfos using one of the unique models there that should work :mischief:

Ok will set it up. But really theres always been a kobukson (like 4 colors of them) in the FPK. I guess its hard to keep track of 1200+ units and what they look like.

Yeah, but it was just the asian galleas model. That modpak adds a bunch of middle ages korean boats, so something should work, ie stand out and look different then the other models.

Yeah, but it was just the asian galleas model. That modpak adds a bunch of middle ages korean boats, so something should work, ie stand out and look different then the other models.

Actually they are the same model, just one is shrunk down. But you are right about the other boats. They can replace the kobukson as the asian galleas, so the koreans get thier turtle boat!:)

One more random thought I just had: The Sacred Band should get amphibious promo or atleast an innate amphibious. 1)It comes with sailing 2)Carthage was a maritime power. 3)And it would help give the legends some more diversity. (just made a kickass new model for them too!)

EDIT: just installed 0.9.6test and plugged in all my XML and the 0.96 Debug, and I get crazy xml loading errors. One is about the Hungarian Cannon's max start era: renaissance not being declared in the DTD/Schema. And a call failed for the entire UnitInfos. Then a assert failure for everysingle unit's info class being wrong in the UnitArtStyleTypes. What in gods name have I done wrong. Everything just worked in 0.95. And all I did was copy all the relevant files over.

File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 3914
Expression: strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: info type UNIT_WARRIOR not found, Current XML file is: xml\Civilizations/CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos.xml

----------------------------------------------------------


But one of these messages for each unit. Dont understand what I could be missing.

EDIT: specifically the UnitInfos and CivilizationInfos. Those 2 files are 1KB bigger than mine and I cant tell the difference. I have only made a small fix in both so I would need to know if you changed anything in those 2.
http://www.quickdiff.com/

One more random thought I just had: The Sacred Band should get amphibious promo or atleast an innate amphibious.
Always seemed strange to me that it wasn't.

My apologies for not having paid much attention to this forum for a little while. I had a bit of a fender bender with my car, which, while I haven't gotten an estimate, is probably around 1000 dollars in repairs. So I've been working every shift that people ask me to work (which has been.... pretty much every shift :/). So needless to say, my time has been pretty limited, but I've been able to get these done just now (while I had El Cid done earlier, I just finished Xerxes this morning. Actually, somebody did call me to ask me to work this morning, but I told them I was busy).

For some reason the 0.9.6 test build will not work for me, so I will instead incorporate my text into the 0.9.5 build and send over that leaderhead Civilopedia file (which I highly doubt has changed between the two versions).

:Edit: Scratch that. The 0.9.6 build works in the download thread, just not the one that was linked within this thread. I've already incorporated the text into an older file, but it'll be easy to copy those over once I download 0.9.6. So really, once I have that downloaded, I'll be able to upload the text file.

Here we go!

Changes made:

- Fixed some grammatical errors (with the Longhouse and the Ikhanda).
- Recorrected the Hoplite (for some reason its entry reverted back to its original one).
- Fixed the Sid's Tip entry for Writing so that it now displays properly.
- Changed the Sacred Band Civilopedia entry so that it now refers to the Sacred Band of Carthage rather than the Sacred Band of Thebes.
- Added Civilopedia entries for Abu Bakr, El Cid, and Xerxes.
- Going along with Merri's work, I have added in Finnish tags to any entries I have added and/or changed.

Remaining work (for future versions):
- Rewrite Reagen's entry.
- Double check strategy entries for grammar or other issues (not as concerned with the grammar of background/historical Civilopedia entries - but let me know if you happen to notice anything)
- Go over the Sid's Tips section for each technology and reformat them to fit the modification (for example, techs that once allowed the construction of the Space Elevator no longer do, so I will change Sid's Tips to reflect this).
- Write a Civilopedia entry for the Wayfinder Legendary Unit.


:Edit: I have also modified CIV4PromotionInfos.xml under XML/Units so that City Garrison promotions will appear on the list before the Urban Warfare promotion. Why? When you train a unit who you *know* is going to be a city defender, it can be nice to just hit the button three or four times and call it a day; however, since City Garrison I leads to Urban Warfare, and Urban Warfare comes before CG2, you can accidentally upgrade to UW when you don't mean to. That is why I'd recommend changing the Promotions file. I have attached a separate .zip file with that recommended change.

- Write a Civilopedia entry for the Wayfinder Legendary Unit.

I guess I should whip up a model for it. Ive only had like 3 months to do it.:)


:Edit: I have also modified CIV4PromotionInfos.xml under XML/Units so that City Garrison promotions will appear on the list before the Urban Warfare promotion. Why? When you train a unit who you *know* is going to be a city defender, it can be nice to just hit the button three or four times and call it a day; however, since City Garrison I leads to Urban Warfare, and Urban Warfare comes before CG2, you can accidentally upgrade to UW when you don't mean to. That is why I'd recommend changing the Promotions file. I have attached a separate .zip file with that recommended change.

I like it. Little things like this that make the mode feel professional. Probably unimportant in the grand schemes of things, but very nice to have.

I guess we also need a few sentences on the new UU: Korean Kobukson (turtle ship), a galleas replacement. Dont know what its final stats will be though.

I guess we also need a few sentences on the new UU: Korean Kobukson (turtle ship), a galleas replacement. Dont know what its final stats will be though.

Sure thing! Do we need a strategy entry and a Civilopedia entry, or just one of the two (not sure if the pack with the unit itself came with either of these)?

Sure thing! Do we need a strategy entry and a Civilopedia entry, or just one of the two (not sure if the pack with the unit itself came with either of these)?

It atleast needs a civlopedia description. Not sure about the strategy. I havent actually given it stats. Its just a galleas right now.

@achilleszero and Alsark

I've decided Reagan just has to go, America already has 3 leaders, and doesn't need more. Same with Lenin. While these are both very well done leaderheads, Other civs need alternate leaders more.

For a replacement for Reagan, I'd like Trung Trac, or the Trung Sister that proclaimed herself queen. No one is specifically called that, but I'm sure we could use one of the female Asian Leaderheads Ekmek has done:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=277514


I'm not sure who to use to replace Lenin. I'm leaning toward Constantine as this will give the Byzantines 2 leaders, and put him in the unique position as being an available leader for 2 civs (Romans and Byzantines). But there may be someone better suited to replace Lenin.

For a replacement for Reagan, I'd like Trung Trac, or the Trung Sister that proclaimed herself queen.

Cool, and she will be in the unique position of having a LH and her own unit(viet-war elephant graphic). If you were following that trung sister thread, Im thinking it would make a good legend for any other modcomps for LoR. Of course its one of those whose legend is 90% made up, but an insane legend nonetheless.

I'm not sure who to use to replace Lenin. I'm leaning toward Constantine as this will give the Byzantines 2 leaders, and put him in the unique position as being an available leader for 2 civs (Romans and Byzantines).

What do you mean available for 2 civs, like literally you will be able pick him as either or?

Also, which DLL is compatible with 0.95? Ive lost track of which one I was using. I have had to reinstall LoR like 5 times over the past several days, also BtS and Vanilla had to be wiped. Im thinking the problem was when I installed 0.96, because problems arose immediately after that. But never had problems with 0.95.

Wow... I know this is old news and you guys already know, but... that new Ataturk looks really good! I'm impressed!

And I agree - I brought Reagen up awhile ago, actually. I, too, thought that America had too many leaders as it was. I wasn't sure why Firaxis even had three leaders for America to begin with, while many deserving nations were left with only one.

I suppose you could use Jingu for one of the Trung sisters. The only problem with them is that they really seem to be referenced as "the Trung sisters" every time (at least on Wikipedia). It doesn't put forth much effort to distinguish the two. Therefore, it might be hard to pick one of the two sisters and then write up any kind of Civilopedia on, primarily, that one sister. It would be kind of like Romulus and Remus - the two names are almost always thrown together (but at least with those two, their paths eventually differed). So while I don't think using one of the Trung sisters is a bad idea, it almost just seems like you'd need to have them as sisters, and not just have one of them there.

Yeah, was following that thread. She wol't be a legend though, just a leaderhead. And yeah, alot like Romulus and Remus, but that's the thing, easily Romulus can be made the leader, and same with the Trung Sisters Trung Trac announced herself as queen, so she gets the title. But the civilopedia article will obviously talk about both.

As for the 0.9.x6 build, it works fine, but there are a couple python errors-- I've fixed these and should probably do a 0.9.x6a upload. Here is the debug.dll for it though (that has changed, also the last 0.9.6x debug dll was all skrewed up, I think I mixed it up with a pure RevDCM build--which is why you were getting errors):

0.9.x6 debug gamecore (http://www.filefront.com/14197091/debug-dll.zip/)

Yeah, was following that thread. She wol't be a legend though, just a leaderhead. And yeah, alot like Romulus and Remus, but that's the thing, easily Romulus can be made the leader, and same with the Trung Sisters Trung Trac announced herself as queen, so she gets the title. But the civilopedia article will obviously talk about both.

Alright, sounds good! I can do that. Are we thinking of having these people for 0.9.7's test build?

Yeah, was following that thread. She wol't be a legend though, just a leaderhead. And yeah, alot like Romulus and Remus, but that's the thing, easily Romulus can be made the leader, and same with the Trung Sisters Trung Trac announced herself as queen, so she gets the title. But the civilopedia article will obviously talk about both.

Oh no I wasnt suggesting her for a core legend. I dont think they cand stand with the likes of the 300, LegioX, and the Bismark. Just that their legend alone was worth for say something like Berenthor's mod.

I agree with Alsark on Jingu being the best candidate for Trung. Cixi definitely seems off and too chinese. Wu looks to african and too much like Hatty. Only problem is that katana that Jingu has. I can make a more Vietnamese sword for her. Plus that will fit with her warrior legend.

Also, Constantine, yeah or nay?

Are we thinking of having these people for 0.9.7's test build?
Don't know, if this will delay things alot, then the leader swaps can wait. If not, would be good to include these leader swaps in the next official update. Changing a leaderhead is pretty simple though, just writing up the civilopedia entry, and finding a quality leaderhead are the hard parts.


I agree with Alsark on Jingu being the best candidate for Trung. Cixi definitely seems off and too chinese. Wu looks to african and too much like Hatty. Only problem is that katana that Jingu has. I can make a more Vietnamese sword for her. Plus that will fit with her warrior legend.

Also, Constantine, yeah or nay?

Good idea, that sounds perfect. Not sure how long it'll take you to swap out the sword and all that (but she definatly needs a different sword, the Katana is too Japanese), but as stated above, we can just delay the leaderswap for the next version. Actually that's probably the best thing to do right now, I'd like to get out an official release of the current build, lots of improvements in it.

Not sure about Constantine. Was looking for brainstorming. Basically just want to have a leader who looks good, fits, and is historically relevant (or legendary) and givs a civ with one leader, 2. Constantine fits this bill, but I'm not sure he's the best bet. Plus calling him a Byzantine leader is somewhat of a stretch, but I think the compromise of having him available to the Romans and the Byzantines would be a good way to use him. It might seem odd to have him be that way though... not sure, but it's the best thing I can come up with, he is arguably an apropriat leader for both the Byzantines and Romans, so I can't think of a good reason not to make him available to both civs.

@achilleszero

Just saw your post in the main thread. Since you're going to test it and all that you probably need the corrected Python. I'm going to upload an art free LoR light, just copy it over the 0.9.x6 test build and it'll work fine (it'll copy over the python and XML, and the gamcore). It's going to include a debug dll by default, so It's not reccomended to download it unless you are achilleszero. Also there are a couple minor changes in the UnitInfos, but they were needed for some of the event fixes so legends wol't spawn from efents. Will upload it in a few minutes.

OK here it is:

http://www.filefront.com/14197829/LoR-Light.zip/

The main things you need from it are the Python files, UnitInfos, the XML Event folder, and the debug gamecore stuff. This is just a LoR light folder stripped of it's art to make it smaller and easier to upload/download. Should make your final testing run easier when python doesn't start tripping out because of some bad code that causes asserts in Revolutions (which the current 0.9.x6 test build does).

Well Constantine sounds like as good an idea as any. Hes an epic leader. It is a little of a stretch, but he did found Byzantium (i think).

Off the top of my head, and Ekmek's list, theres Azozotl(sp?) or Santa Anna for the Aztec. But I think the chick was misnamed so she would need a new name, didnt follow that discussion all the way. And Santa Anna, while looking cool as hell, looks exactly like Bolivar from the neck down. Also the US beat him in like every battle, so I guess hes kind lame. Theres also Henry the navigator.

Dido would be a good one as founder of Carthage. That LH looks really good, cant remember who made it though. Theres several others I would like to have but they are not very well done or they look too much like LH they were made from, like Nebuchadnezzar.

Besides that I really couldnt tell you who some of the other guys on Ekmek's or theCapos gallery.

OK here it is:

http://www.filefront.com/14197829/LoR-Light.zip/

The main things you need from it are the Python files, UnitInfos, the XML Event folder, and the debug gamecore stuff. This is just a LoR light folder stripped of it's art to make it smaller and easier to upload/download. Should make your final testing run easier when python doesn't start tripping out because of some bad code that causes asserts in Revolutions (which the current 0.9.x6 test build does).

Time to get to work.

Yeah, I looked through all their galleries a few times. Constantine or Dido are the best candidates. Either one would be good to use.

Also just a note, Constantine didn't found Byzantium, he moved the capital of the Roman Empire from Rome to Byzantium (and renamed it Constantinople), which led to the East West split which in turn led to the creation of the Byzantium Empire, this was due as well to the fact on his death he split the Emperors under 4 Regional Emperors (using his Nephews I believe), the fool actually thought they'd work together and that would create a stable state, lol, obviously it caused it to fragment.

Hes an epic leader. It is a little of a stretch, but he did found Byzantium (i think).

Well, he founded Constantinople, on the site of Byzantium. He is a perfect fit - he was the emperor who divided the empire into two and declared Constantinople the capitol of the east. So, basically, he is the creator of the Byzantine Empire.

Yeah, I agree with Constantine and Dido. The only problem with having Constantine as both Roman and Byzantine is that there would be a small chance that, using random leaders, he'd be in the game twice (unless you can somehow prevent this from happening?). It would seem a little odd to meet Constantine twice in the same game. Constantine IS listed as the first emperor of the Byzantine Empire (at least on Wikipedia). Evidently, every emperor of the Byzantine Empire considered themselves to be a Roman Emperor. So I wouldn't really see much of an issue with listing him as just a Byzantine leader (particularly if there's the issue of him appearing in the game twice if he's both nations).

Or to completly avoid the whole "Roman or Byzantine?" problem, simply add another Byzantine Leader, say Heraclius or Basil. Both were after the fall of the Western Empire, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Some ideas kicking around my head. I realize that there is not a big push to add lots of stuff but a few thing came to mind that I would hope might someday make it into this mod.

First off perhaps some later Scandinavian leaders such as Gustavus Adolphus II (Sweden) Christian I (Denmark) and Haakon VII (Norway)?

Plus, I know the intent of this mod isn't to go nuts like Rise of Mankind does with extra techs and buildings. However, there is one factor in RoM that I think could be imported safely into LoR that vanilla BTS sort of overlooked: Food production.

If any one thing really makes civilization possible is the ability to create a surplus of food to feed soldiers, artisans, priest and all the other classes that don't create food. However in most Civ variants, all you can do is plant farms, fish and that's about it.

However in 'real' history, the advent of better metals for plows, the introduction of crop rotation, as well as advances in food preservation, allowed larger food production than had previously been allowed.

So perhaps instead of adding all the buildings like butcheries and other food production buildings that RoM, perhaps some food bonuses could be piggy-backed onto certain techs to reflect the advances in food production. That way cities could grow a bit larger than they do now, just like they did historically.

Lastly, a bigger change, but has anyone ever thought of a way to create a "National Guard" system? My idea was always some sort of National Wonder that would allow you to tag military units as Guard units and they'd go 'inactive' and cost a lot less to support. To reactivate them, you'd have to be at war and it would either cost a certain amount of money and/or time to get them ready to fight again. Standing armies cost like crazy and the Guard/Militia system was a good way to keep the equipment after a war but not have to pay to keep it 'on alert' at all times.

BTW, I don't know when it happened, but I love that LoR and RoM allows you to name your units. As a long time military type, it's fun to name units and thus be able to track them better later on. Seeing a 'old' unit with history makes them seem more special. I mean who wouldn't feel more attached to 3rd Immortals than to just Swordsman 3 (Athens)?

Yeah, it might not be bad to have another technology before Biology that grants farms an increase in food. Another thing I never liked is how Pastures never get any better. They start off really good, but towards the end of the game they're really not that great. I wouldn't mind a technology adding extra food perhaps to Cow and Pigs, and maybe an extra commerce or production to Horses and Sheep.

The National Guard system seems cool, but complicated.

On an unrelated note, I was looking at the Vietcong, and... the fact that he is a Recon unit really prohibits him from a lot of good modern-based upgrades (like Urban Warfare and Pinch). Would there be any way to add these to his promotion availability list? Maybe split the Recon class into two kinds of Recon classes, one containing the more modern Recon units (Vietcong, Jeep, Special Forces) that have access to the more modern upgrades?

Another thing I never liked is how Pastures never get any better. They start off really good, but towards the end of the game they're really not that great. I wouldn't mind a technology adding extra food perhaps to Cow and Pigs, and maybe an extra commerce or production to Horses and Sheep.

I've asked for the same in the balance thread and recall that Phungus agreed to it. However, in my opinion, all the special resource improvements need to increase in output throughout the game just like all the other improvements do. Why would mines, farms, windmills and cottages improve and pastures, camps and wineries remain the same? It makes special resource improvements great at the start of the game but rather weak later in the game. So if you don't need the resource, then you won't use the special tile improvement in the late game.

In 0.9.6Test some improvements gain extra output from later techs:

Computers: winerys gain +1:food:, +1:commerce:. Not sure whats up with that, but its nice.
Aquaculture: fish boats gain +2:food:; and Whale boats gain +1:food:.+:hammers:,+1:commerce:. The fishing bonus seems spot on, but the whale thing seems off.
Ecology: Camps gain +1:hammers:, +2:commerce:
Hydroponics: Farms and Extreme Climate Farms gain +1:food:
Plastics: Plantation gains +1:hammers:, +1:commerce:
Robotics: Workshops gain +1:hammers:, +1:commerce:
AI: Both types of Cottages through Villages gain +1:commerce:, And both types of Towns gain +:hammers:, and +1:commerce:
(Printing Press gives +2 :commerce: to Winery, cant remember if it was this way in BtS)

I think most of these are pretty good fits, but a few could be adjusted. Like maybe whales could also gain an all around boost somewhere halfway between optics and ecology. They are really rare any ways, and I do just fine ignoring whales most of the time. So giving them another boost would make them more enticing the Human player willing to make settlements in crappy polar regions.

Pasture, Mine, Quarry, and Fort, and both wells seemed to have been excluded. I think the oilwells output could be boosted. Even though just having 1 oil is an enormous boost, the output doesnt make sense. At that stage of the game even doubling it would barely be noticeble to your empire. Thats what I did in my own game. Forts should maybe gain a commerce bonus. Since they represent military bases in the modern era, and the AI loves building forts. Definitely Pastures could use something as well. Modern livestock farms amany times the production output today. Partly due to genetics, partly due to biology, partly due to thier size, and partly due to refrigeration. Not sure about Mines needing a boost though. Modern mining is far and away more productive, but I dont know if that one will be unbalancing.

Good to see these adjustments to some of the neglected improvements although some of them are not new to version 0.96b. I can't quickly say if they're perfectly balanced as I'd have to look at the whole picture. It's pretty hard to imbalance the special resource improvements by giving them too big bonuses as you still need the resource to build them totally restricting any abuse of any kind of imbalance.

I agree that the oil well (many :hammers:, good :commerce:) and pasture (2 times +1 :food: with 2 different technologies or +1 :food: +1 :commerce:) need some bonus. And the quarry and mine are relatively weak now that production of water mills and workshops has been increased. It's not a real problem but it definitely makes hills a bad place for a very late game production city. If that's the idea, then that's not that bad. It fits realism as modern production is from production facilities and not mines. But it could also just be overlooked.

I think forts have a major design flaw in that they cannot be placed with another improvement. I would have loved Civ4 forts that cost (a significant amount of) money to construct and give a small combat bonus to all units in their surrounding. The AI only seems to build them outside the BFC of cities like most human players. This change to forts would make them a strategic consideration: where do I expect to be attacked and is it worth it to build a fort there for the combat bonus.

Here is new art and Xml files for next release. Also Blue planet.Fpk with new improvements and plotLsystem:
LoR 0.96 stuff
Blue Marble Stuff
Things phungus needs to do to make these files work with his:
1)Breath life into Kobukson. It has ArtDefines,UnitInfos, and is in CivilizationInfos. But it needs actuall stats in UnitInfos, it is just copy of galleas. Also needs all its text/object infos to make it work. Was modifying old texts files when I made it so I dont want to cross up anything.
2)Please change all references in Text XML of frontiersman to pathfinder. Already changed every refernce in my xml over. Didnt see any need to have confusing double name thing going on, since it is not a simple name change like heavyfootman, its is unique to LoR. Got triggerhappy with my new find all/replace all functionality. Also there is a refernce to frontiersman in Event manger xml.
3)For some reason I still get an error when loading that Artstyle European and Middle East are missing. I assume it is talking about building artstyle and not unit artstyle. But niether of those should exist. In Geo's new CityL, European is Europe, and MiddleEast has been split into Crescent and Arabia. And niether exist in GlobalDefines. But it doesnt seem to bother it and I cant make any citystyle related to those cause a crash.


All included XML files are needed. Some like the Unit Infos, and BuildingArtDefines have minor changes like changes to mesh group or fScale. And I dont believe any are interchangeble btween Light and non-Light, except the UnitClass infos. So they are seperated between LoR and LoR light.

Well the Light Fpk is interchangable, obviously. Youll be happy to see the size of the new FPKs. Even with BM installed total art will be less than 500MB. I managed to take of 25MB from Light FPK, and 40MB or so from the ethnic FPK.

Will post a complete list of major graphical changes and additions later in the art thread.

Achilles, is the unit tag UNIT_KOREAN_KOBUKSON or just UNIT_KOBUKSON?

For now I will just leave the strategy entry the same as the Galleas, but I will change that whenever it has some stats of its own.

Also I am going to hold off a bit on the Trang and Constantine pedia entry until we know for sure that those are the two we'll be adding (since there still seems to be some speculation).

:Edit: Having written the Civilopedia entry, it seems the primary benefit to the Kobukson is its defensive anti-boarding tactic (when compared to a normal Galleass - which would actually be much larger [32 oars as opposed to the Kobukson's 10; so we can figure also about three times the amount of cannons on a Galleass]). Therefore, it probably wouldn't make sense to give it an offensive bonus, since it probably had fewer cannons due to its smaller size. So maybe like a bonus when defending? Just throwing a suggestion out there. Perhaps a First Strike, too, since I guess the dragon head smoke was supposed to mask their movement (allowing them to get the first hit in, I'd imagine).

Achilles, is the unit tag UNIT_KOREAN_KOBUKSON or just UNIT_KOBUKSON?


Its UNIT_KOREAN_KOBUKSON. Most of the UUs have the civ name before the name of the unit.

Make sure you mention it also being called "turtle ship". Cant forget the turtle ship!

Its UNIT_KOREAN_KOBUKSON. Most of the UUs have the civ name before the name of the unit.

Make sure you mention it also being called "turtle ship". Cant forget the turtle ship!

Yeah, most of them are, but I've noticed some exceptions, so I had just wanted to make sure. Thanks!

Haha, and of course! It's not the longest description in the world, but there wasn't much left to say:

The Turtle ship, also known as Geobukseon or Kobukson, was a Korean warship that was used from the early 15th century to the 19th century. These ships were generally about 100 to 120 feet long, although there were Kobukson that varied outside of this range. The Kobukson had a dragon head on the bow of the vessel that would emit sulfur smoke in order to hide its movement in close combat and also serve as a method of psychological warfare. The turtle ship also had 10 oars and 11 cannon holes on each side, as well as a cannon hole within the dragon's mouth. This allowed for massive cannonball volleys. As a defensive tactic, the turtle ship was outfitted with iron spikes on the roof to prevent enemies from boarding the ship. The crew of a Kobukson would generally consist of around 50 to 60 fighting marines and 70 oarsmen, as well as a captain.


I have attached some more text fixes to this post. Text changed:

- Completely redid the Enlightened trait's entry in the Civilopedia (it was something I wrote awhile back and just hadn't put in).
- Fixed an issue with the Gunship entry (Achilles pointed this out awhile ago but I just now saw his post on it, heh).
- Reworked the Vietcong entry (speaking of which, I think their name is supposed to be one word rather than two [Vietcong as opposed to Viet Cong]).
- Fixed an error in the 101st Airborne Pedia Entry (thanks to Achilles for pointing this out)
- Added info to the Leonardo's Workshop strategy entry (thanks again to Achilles)
- Added text for the Kobukson. While a strategy entry does exist for it, it's currently just a Galleass copy.



:Edit: Also, I don't know if this is possible, but would there be a way to get rid of all of the revolution-related entries in the civics if you have revolutions disabled? If this isn't possible, I'd recommend all of the revolution-related entries be moved downward on the bulleted list (as otherwise they get in the way of the primary effects of the civic - for example, prior to researching Constitution, you won't be able to tell what Representation does unless you go into the Civilopedia). I know several people play with revolutions disabled (myself included), especially since it doesn't work on multiplayer, so that's why I was curious.

Been working on getting 0.9.6 out the door. I'm dropping the Turtle Ship for this build, it'll make it in to the next release, with the new leaders. Should be done in a few hours. And will incorporate that new text, thanks.

Been working on getting 0.9.6 out the door. I'm dropping the Turtle Ship for this build, it'll make it in to the next release, with the new leaders. Should be done in a few hours. And will incorporate that new text, thanks.

Phungus! Here are 3 XML files that you should use instead in normal LoR (not Light). The changes are not game breaking so if you dont see this before you finish up, its no big deal. They are just a couple of graphical tweeks.

UnitInfos: Reincorporated the 7mesh group for settlers. (removed the Kobukson entry)
ArtDefinesBuilding: Fixed wrong LSystem for barracks causing an invisible early barracks for european civs. (no crash or anything, building graphic just doesnt show but its plot does.)
CityLSystem: Same as above, plus a couple more realistic FScales


223756

OK, here are the 0.9.6 releases. Because the art was completely redone, and basically rebuilt from scratch, I'm going to hold off on reseting the links in the main thread to it, because I want to make sure it's bug free (especially critical art bugs). So will call this the official version at the end of the weekend. For now though please check it out, and help make sure it's working correctly.


Full Release (includes ethnic art, scenarios, optional blue marble add on; 374MB)
Legends of Revolution 0.9.6 -File Front Mirror (http://www.filefront.com/14221171/Legends-of-Revolution-v0.9.6-Setup.exe/)
Legends of Revolution 0.9.6 -Atomic Gamer Mirror (http://www.atomicgamer.com/file.php?id=80157)

Light Release (Non Core Art Removed, no scenarios; 207MB)
Legends of Revolution 0.9.6 (light) -File Front Mirror (http://www.filefront.com/14216517/Legends-of-Revolution-v0.9.6-light-Setup.exe/)
Legends of Revolution 0.9.6 (light) -Atomic Gamer Mirror (http://www.atomicgamer.com/file.php?id=80128)

Changelog
0.9.6 (general)


Light and Full Releases made available. Light Version removes unnecessary ethnic art so that users with low end systems can increase performance by using a light version
Updated RevDCM Component to 2.51

Added minor fix to Naval Bombard from RevDCM 2.51a
Some minor updates in AI logic
Fixed bugged events -events now work properly, some events removed (effects 8 out of 300 events)
Fixes long standing Text issues displaying incorrectely with revolutions (REV_TXT_AND, etc)

Numerous Text and typo corrections
Exposed Civic Revolution Effects
Cloned Civic Revolution XML tags into TraitInfos, added some RevTrait functionality
Added Maximum Start Era to UnitInfos, Legends now have a maximum Start Era like Wonders
Added Emancipation Requirement to 54th Infantry
Minor Tweaks to Units, Crossbow now 60 hammers, and no longer targets mounted last, nerfed Hungarian Cannon
Tweak to Serfdom, Farms +1 Hammer, -2 Health, Hight Upkeep, +100% Revolution Distance Penalty
Added back default techs in BtS to Barbarians. This makes Barbarian Civ and Raging Barbarians, and particularly Barbarian Civ with the Challeng Barbarian World option much more difficult
Fixed World War Wolf Scenario
Added Lean's pre set Earth Map
Rebuilt ArtDefines XML files from scratch
Switched out less known or "deserving" leaders like Lech Walesa (who the hell is that guy?) with Ataturk, Xerxes, and El Cid

Is this savegame compatible with the previous version?

Nope, it's not.

I've been playing LoR and RoM for a bit now (taking a break from the FfH-Orbis mod) and I really like it even if it does strain my systems ability to play it.

However, I've noticed one thing when using the Revolutionary mod is that aggressive Civs tend to really suck. They are hard to play yourself because in the process of trying to build enough units to be dangerous, you either fall way behind in tech and/or your Civ falls apart because you don't build anything to keep your people happy.

Playing against these Civs seems, in the words of Darth Vader, "All too easy" since if you can build enough units to beat off the initial attack of 2-3 axemen, 1-2 spearman and the odd chariot, the agg Civ starts to fall apart before it can mount another big attack on you. If playing a Phi/Spi type Civ, you can keep your people really happy and thus have a lot of more cities and thus really dominate.

Playing as the Ottomans, is a good example of this. Your Civ Specific building not only gives you a happy bonus but also a health bonus. So building those makes my citizens happy and healthy while Agg civ's citizen live in filth and are unhappy because their leader just cranks out mostly combat units.

So what I've found is that depending on your random mix of Civs, you have lots of 'broken' kingdoms of Aggressive Civs that are basically tough barbarians and a few Phi/Spi type civs that are your only real enemy. Just as long as you don't let your defenses get to weak, your tech advantage is more than enough to deal with most of the civs in the game.

Again, maybe I just don't know how to play civ very well (I usually play on Noble) but each time I try to play a Agg type Civ, I get my clock cleaned. When I play someone like the Ottoman's, I usually dominate the game w/o that much problems.

So it seems to me, in my biased opinion, that the Agg civ's need a tweak to where they won't midnlessly go to war until their is a certain level of infrastructure to support it. While historical that many agg civs take over large empires that often fragment later, those Civs (like the Romans or Macedonians) also built up a lot of cultural stuff as well and so far I'm not seeing that. The Agg civs (if successful) keep expanding till they break apart and then almost never amount to much of anything.

@arkham4269

Your issues seem to stem more from the RevDCM core. Also I don't really agree, I've seen Shaka win a domination victory before in LoR.

@everyone else.
I was updating LoR 0.9.6 to fix some of the missing art and other issues, and realized LoR light it just too big. It needs to be cut down some more, it is a light version after all. So I'm going to remove the movies from National Wonders and Shrines in the Light release, as this should reduce the size of the Light version quite a bit. This may take some time though, so the release of 0.9.6a will be delayed a bit while I work on this.

Phungus here is a better opening screen. Not even close to everything I am planning on doing to it, just some minor improvements. Fixed it to where everyone will atleast see the full title on all resolutions. Switched the title to be in the center of the Red Baron's flight path. So now he's sometimes in front and sometimes in back. And redid some more detailed textures on a few things.

224103

By the way, what resolution do you run the game on. I hadnt realized that the screen looks wildly different in different resolutions. I had been building it while looking at 1024x768. It shoudl fit every resolution but some have a higher or lower view than others.

And you should mention in the new version channel log that there are improved ethnic improvements and LH's in the Blue Marble. Also you should call it Blue Marble advanced or something in the installation menu.

Hmmm, I just uploaded it. I'll put the new opening screen in when 0.9.6 becomes the main link in the Modpack forum and main download threads. Going to post this version and wait a couple days before making it the main download version to make sure there are no other major issues like the missing spy buttons, at that time I'll throw in the new opening screen, so you could fix it up more in that time if you like.

0.9.6a posted. As stated above will delay using this as the main link in OP of the download and Modpack forum threads, to make sure no more issues appear in the next couple of days. It would have been lame to have the main version have missing buttons for the spy and great spy if I had done that and so definatly want to wait to make sure, and also I still feel stupid about the main 0.9.3 release having a critical bug in it. 0.9.6a is save game compatible with 0.9.6, also light and full versions are save game compatible for those who play succession games, or want to swap version mid game or what not.


Legends of Revolution Download Mirrors. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8199812&postcount=4)
The most current version will always be posted at the top of the list. Current version is 0.9.6a

Legends of Revolution 0.9.6a

Full and Light versions made available
Various Typos and other bug fixes
Removed El Cid and Abu Bakr from Great Persons list (they are now leaders)
Mohawk Sentry given +100% defense against warriors
Fixed a couple of minor missing graphix issues with buttons (pink boxes) from 0.9.6 build
ReSet LoR to once again stop loading custom assets, was causing issues for users who had custom assets files
LoR no longer makes available scenarios and maps which are not compatible with the mod
Set Civic and Trait civilopedia displays so that Revolutions effects only shows up for games with Revolutions active
Removed Shrine and National Wonder movies from light version to reduce size of the light version download

*Did the movies get cut completely or did they get moved to the ethnic FPK/full LoR?

*Were there anymore art snafus, besides the buttons I deleted or that spartan thing. So far I havent seen anybody mention a problem that would have to do with the total reconstruction of the artdefines, just things I was doing last minute.

Just the buttons for the Spy, some of the ethnic protected cruisers, and the spartan were the only issues. None of them caused a crash, but it looks bad having a pink box instead of a real button. All of the issues that were reported are fixed. The movies are in the full version of LoR, just cut all the national and shrine movies from the light build to reduce the size. It dropped from 207MB, to 129MB after doing so.

Just the buttons for the Spy, some of the ethnic protected cruisers, and the spartan were the only issues. None of them caused a crash, but it looks bad having a pink box instead of a real button. All of the issues that were reported are fixed.

Ok good. So they were all things I did last minute poking around, and didnt change all my copies. At the end there I was trying to keep track of full LoR, Light LoR, and my test game XML.


The movies are in the full version of LoR, just cut all the national and shrine movies from the light build to reduce the size. It dropped from 207MB, to 129MB after doing so.

Wow thats alot. Do the 3 LoR wonders and Fireworks festival have movies?

Hey what about fireworks festival being a Carniva'l type thing. No thats no good, still would need graphics for it. But that would make a cool ethnic set. East Asia could have chinese new year dancing dragon, America could have mardi gras flaot, Latin America could have Dias del Muertos looking parade, and theres all kinds of ones for Europe (Oktoberfest!). If only someone could make those for me.

I've downloaded 0.9.6a twice from the main mirror site and when I try to install it, I get a corrupted file error. :eek:

I left in the true Wonder Movies, if I cut those out LoR light would probably drop to around 105MB, but Global Wonders need a movie because all of them have unique movies in BtS. There is nothing else I can see which could be cut. Still LoR light is significantly smaller then the full version. 129MB vs 375MB. As far as the fireworks festival goes, anything would probably be better then the current setup.

I've downloaded 0.9.6a twice from the main mirror site and when I try to install it, I get a corrupted file error. :eek:

Is this the filefront or atomic gamer mirror? Filefront has had some issues with that lately. Anyway let me know which one and I'll reupload it.

I had that problem at filefront. Still working on it . . .

I got around it by downloading from AtomGamer. Didn't try Filefront a second time. I wonder if it affects everybody who downloads it or only some?

Reuploaded to filefront, and seems to work fine, downloaded it and checked it, and it's not corrupted.

Downloading now to play (and test, I guess :-). Don't feel bad about the issue with 0.9.3; response is what's important.

Latin America could have Dias del Muertos looking parade
LOL, that would be awesome.

Um, none of the links work to download the mod currently, I was going to test this build on a new PC, fresh of anything else.

Um, none of the links work to download the mod currently, I was going to test this build on a new PC, fresh of anything else.

All the links have been taken down. Will be back up soon.

Yeah, any idea when we're going to be able to download the newest version? When did the links go down?

Yeah, any idea when we're going to be able to download the newest version? When did the links go down?

There was a critical bug in the latest version, so Phungus took down the link until it's fixed, and hopefully he took a break and walked away from this thing for a couple of weeks. He's been working on this for months, and it'd probably be good for him to step back and do something else for a bit.

That having been said, I'm very excited about this mod, and I can't wait for version 1.0

Yeah, any idea when we're going to be able to download the newest version? When did the links go down?

A few days ago, and Im not sure when it will get put back up. There is a torrent DL of the 0.96 Light version only on the second to last page of the main thread in the ModPacks forum, but thats about it for right now.

96b light has a crit-bug?

96b light has a crit-bug?

No, only 0.96b FULL has a bug, but all versions got pulled.

And the bug in normal 0.96b is easily fixed, if anybody that got ahold of it wants to know how.

Sure, I'd like to know how.

Sure, I'd like to know how.

To fix the viking bug in full LoR 0.96b, place this entry in the ArtDefines_Units XML:

<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_FIGHTER_J22</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/J22.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.54</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Fighter/Fighter.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/FighterShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>



It really doesnt matter where in the file you put it, you can place it in the beginning infront of the lion entry if you want.

To fix the viking bug in full LoR 0.96b, place this entry in the ArtDefines_Units XML:

<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_FIGHTER_J22</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/J22.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.54</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Fighter/Fighter.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/FighterShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>



It really doesnt matter where in the file you put it, you can place it in the beginning infront of the lion entry if you want.

I copied the above code into the CIV4ArtDefines_Unit XML in the LoR mod folder and it doesn't change the buggy start when starting as the Vikings, here is where I copied it to in case I somehow did not do so correctly:


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by Firaxis Games (Firaxis Games) -->
<!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
<!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
<!-- -->
<!-- Unit art path information -->
<Civ4ArtDefines xmlns="x-schema:CIV4ArtDefinesSchema.xml">
<UnitArtInfos>
<!-- ANIMALS -->
<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_FIGHTER_J22</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/J22.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.54</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Fighter/Fighter.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/FighterShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>
<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_LION</Type>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Lion.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Atlas.dds,6,5</Button>
<fScale>0.61</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.3</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Lion/Lion.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Lion/Lion.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Lion/Lion_FX.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/LionShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>LionBip Spine1</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>1.0</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.28</fRangedDeathTim
....etc

I copied the above code into the CIV4ArtDefines_Unit XML in the LoR mod folder and it doesn't change the buggy start when starting as the Vikings, here is where I copied it to in case I somehow did not do so correctly:


Hmm, thats correct. Phungus said that was the problem. It was definitely missing and would cause a crash once the vikings tried to build a fighter. Maybe that was just 'a problem' and not the main problem causing whacky behavior at game start.

Hmm, thats correct. Phungus said that was the problem. It was definitely missing and would cause a crash once the vikings tried to build a fighter. Maybe that was just 'a problem' and not the main problem causing whacky behavior at game start.

Well, at least the game didn't crash when I gave myself a few fighters in the world builder, so at least that is one problem down.

I do have a game that is at CTD stage right when the vikings are near where they could build a fighter. I'll double-check. Attached here in case you wish to verify that's the cause.

Side issue; how would I enable debugging to actually see why it's crashing? I thought I had python exception reporting enabled but I just get the crash.

I do have a game that is at CTD stage right when the vikings are near where they could build a fighter. I'll double-check. Attached here in case you wish to verify that's the cause.

Side issue; how would I enable debugging to actually see why it's crashing? I thought I had python exception reporting enabled but I just get the crash.

Did you paste the art defines entry from post #193? Try putting that in and see if you still get a crash.

Still crashes. Is there any way for me to get more useful debug information?

It crashes _right_ after hitting end turn.

Found the Debug dll, loaded and found this error:

Message: get##name##ArtInfo: ART_DEF_UNIT_TANK_SWEDISH_STRV_M41 was not found

I'm see if I can copy another tank define but if you have it handy that's easier :-)

Fixed.

Copied the French tank.

<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_TANK_SWEDISH_STRV_M41</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/M1917.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.61</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>0.9</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/French/Tank_FT17global/Green/Fiat3000.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/French/Tank_FT17global/Green/Fiat3000.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/French/Tank_FT17global/Green/Fiat3000.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/TankShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.72</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<TrailDefinition>
<Texture>Art/Shared/tanktread.dds</Texture>
<fWidth>0.8</fWidth>
<fLength>180.0</fLength>
<fTaper>0.0</fTaper>
<fFadeStartTime>0.2</fFadeStartTime>
<fFadeFalloff>0.35</fFadeFalloff>
</TrailDefinition>
<fBattleDistance>0.5</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.12</fRangedDeathTime>
<bActAsRanged>1</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop>LOOPSTEP_TANK</AudioRunTypeLoop>
<AudioRunTypeEnd>ENDSTEP_TANK</AudioRunTypeEnd>
</AudioRunSounds>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_TANK_FORT</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_TANK_FORT</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>

Found the Debug dll, loaded and found this error:

Message: get##name##ArtInfo: ART_DEF_UNIT_TANK_SWEDISH_STRV_M41 was not found

I'm see if I can copy another tank define but if you have it handy that's easier :-)

Geeez I must have accidently erased a bunch of Viking entries when messing around with the ArtDefines. Well here it is:

<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_TANK_SWEDISH_STRV_M41</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/StrvM41.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.5</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>0.9</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/PanzerShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>1.0</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<TrailDefinition>
<Texture>Art/Shared/tanktread.dds</Texture>
<fWidth>0.7</fWidth>
<fLength>180.0</fLength>
<fTaper>0.0</fTaper>
<fFadeStartTime>0.2</fFadeStartTime>
<fFadeFalloff>0.35</fFadeFalloff>
</TrailDefinition>
<fBattleDistance>0.5</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.12</fRangedDeathTime>
<bActAsRanged>1</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIQUE_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop>LOOPSTEP_TANK</AudioRunTypeLoop>
<AudioRunTypeEnd>ENDSTEP_TANK</AudioRunTypeEnd>
</AudioRunSounds>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_TANK_FORT</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_TANK_FORT</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>

Added in the Viking tank, and the start still isn't fixed. So I looked at every unit in the civilopedia. The Bomber and the Light bomber had no text or picture in their little section, so I tried giving myself a bomber, and the game crashed. So, I would surmise that the bomber and light bomber also need to be added. Didn't find any other Viking unit with problems.

Added in the Viking tank, and the start still isn't fixed. So I looked at every unit in the civilopedia. The Bomber and the Light bomber had no text or picture in their little section, so I tried giving myself a bomber, and the game crashed. So, I would surmise that the bomber and light bomber also need to be added. Didn't find any other Viking unit with problems.

Okay, thanks for report. Im going to completely redo the vikings and then post thier entire section of the artdefines.

Here are the 4 Viking entries that everyone will need to squash Viking bug in 0.96. Thanks to stagnate for pointing them out.

<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_TANK_SWEDISH_STRV_M41</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/StrvM41.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.5</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>0.9</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/PanzerShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>1.0</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<TrailDefinition>
<Texture>Art/Shared/tanktread.dds</Texture>
<fWidth>0.7</fWidth>
<fLength>180.0</fLength>
<fTaper>0.0</fTaper>
<fFadeStartTime>0.2</fFadeStartTime>
<fFadeFalloff>0.35</fFadeFalloff>
</TrailDefinition>
<fBattleDistance>0.5</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.12</fRangedDeathTime>
<bActAsRanged>1</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIQUE_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop>LOOPSTEP_TANK</AudioRunTypeLoop>
<AudioRunTypeEnd>ENDSTEP_TANK</AudioRunTypeEnd>
</AudioRunSounds>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_TANK_FORT</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_TANK_FORT</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>
<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_FIGHTER_J22</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/J22.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.54</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Fighter/Fighter.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/FighterShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>
<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_LIGHT_BOMBER_SAABB17</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/SaabB17.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.545</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/LBomber_SaabB17/japkate.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/lbomber/TBF_Avenger.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/LBomber_SaabB17/japkate.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/FighterShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>
<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOMBER_SAAB18</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Saab18.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.62</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Bomber_Saab18/Saab18.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Bomber/Bomber.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Bomber_Saab18/Saab18.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/BomberShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>

You know, it was the Viking longboat before... maybe you just have something against the Vikings? :-)

Added in the entries for the bombers, and the Viking start is now working properly, awesome! Well done everyone. :goodjob:

Phungus: This has nothing to do with LoR persay, just an old idea of yours that Im trying to revisit. At one point you wanted to make 2 Knight UUs for Arabia, and you came to the conclusion that you cant. So Im wodering why. Im making a whole host of new UUs for an add-on. And theres 2 instance where I would really like to do a dual UU in a single class.

First I tried the simplest way of just adding another line in the CivilizationInfos like this:

<Units>
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_MACEMAN</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>UNIT_AMERICAN_MACEMAN_ONE</UnitType>
</Unit>
<Unit>
<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_MACEMAN</UnitClassType>
<UnitType>UNIT_AMERICAN_MACEMAN_TWO</UnitType>
</Unit>
</Units>

The Maceman_One still shows up in the civlopedia and says it replaces maceman. The maceman entry says it is replaced by maceman_one and maceman_two. But only the Maceman_two will actually be buildable. The maceman_one does not show up in any civ's city build menu.

Whats more is that if you switch the order in CivilizationInfos (list maceman_one after maceman_two) the problem reverses . So it seems whichever one comes last will over ride the other one and become the UU.

Any ideas around this? Ive searched the forums and there have been similar questions asked but they are slightly different, involving multiple classes. Also there was one refernce to changing a "cantrain self" in the CivGameUtil.py.

You might be able to code it in Via python, using the canTrain python callback. Though the cleaner way would be to code it in the SDK, ie alter the UU code. Basically the solution is not a simple XML one.

You might be able to code it in Via python, using the canTrain python callback. Though the cleaner way would be to code it in the SDK, ie alter the UU code. Basically the solution is not a simple XML one.

Well crap, that sucks. It seems like a simple thing on the surface. I guess a cleaner method would be preferable, whether its harder than the python way or not.

Congrats on the 1000th post, Achilles.

I think that Fall From Heaven has units that are unique to one particular type of civilization. Maybe you can just copy over some code from that (if you have it installed)?

Why exactly does the class have to be the knight class or macemen class, though? The only time I could see that making a difference is if there is a unit that is like, "+50% vs. Macemen", of which I don't think one exists? You could just make a unit only one civilization can make and then just make its stats otherwise similar to a maceman (although I guess it wouldn't say "replaces maceman"...).

Also, wouldn't having two unique units be the same class seem kind of... wasteful? I'd think it would be better to spread out the unique units. I mean some civilizations don't give you much of a choice on the matter (like Americans are forced into more modern units), but civilizations like Egypt it would seem weird to give them two ancient-era units when you can give them some more modern unit as well. Just a suggestion.

Oh, and you should make a thread for your add-on's development process (unless you already have one and I'm blind, heh). I'd love to help you out.

Congrats on the 1000th post, Achilles.

Aw, I missed the 1000th! I need to shut the hell up. I went 3 years on this forum and only made 30 posts. After getting my self involved in LoR, I made 970 in 5 months.


I think that Fall From Heaven has units that are unique to one particular type of civilization. Maybe you can just copy over some code from that (if you have it installed)?

Why exactly does the class have to be the knight class or macemen class, though? The only time I could see that making a difference is if there is a unit that is like, "+50% vs. Macemen", of which I don't think one exists? You could just make a unit only one civilization can make and then just make its stats otherwise similar to a maceman (although I guess it wouldn't say "replaces maceman"...).

Also, wouldn't having two unique units be the same class seem kind of... wasteful? I'd think it would be better to spread out the unique units. I mean some civilizations don't give you much of a choice on the matter (like Americans are forced into more modern units), but civilizations like Egypt it would seem weird to give them two ancient-era units when you can give them some more modern unit as well. Just a suggestion.

Oh, and you should make a thread for your add-on's development process (unless you already have one and I'm blind, heh). I'd love to help you out.

I would really like it to be 2 UUs that replace the same unit. For one thing, I want the pedia to show "unique unit of mongolia" and "replaces such and such unit". There are cheats to where you can create a class and then block it from every civ. But that is not desirable, that seems shoddy. Not sure how FFH does it but they have like a team of professional video game designers.

The whole idea is to have 2 seperate units with different abilities in the same class, available to one civ. This would give the civ more flexibility. But since you always need different units to help counter in your stack, you are almost restricted to having half of each of the UU's.(or whatever ratio you want). I also would like to expound upon a civs strengths, like the mongols having another knight unit (although I would need to nerf the keshik a bit). That period is when they shined, and its just about the only period they shined. Plus having the 2 distinct units will give me the opurtunity to really simulate how they really performed in real life. (light cavalry hits with arrows sending enemy into dissarray, then heavy cavalry hits them hard face to face, plus fient retreats and attacks). Plus theres only 2 civs I want to do this with. All others will be different classes.

I will throw up another thread later today, so others can give thier input.

I ran a test, making a unique unit called the Crow, a unique axeman for Sumeria (alongside the Vulture). The closest I was able to do was to get it to say, "Replaces Axeman," and "Unique unit of Sumeria," but the actual Axeman itself would not say, "Replaced by Crow." Basically I ended up making a new unit class called AXEMAN_2, which... doesn't really make it the same unit class anyway :/. I think it's as close as you can get, though. Any other method will detect that you have two identical entries and then the second entry will always override the first.

I'm wondering if there would be some way to edit the Civ4UnitSchema file to either allow you to input two classes for a unit or allow you to edit the text of the "Replaced by..." under any given unit. I'd really hate to even try testing this though since you'd have to edit every single unit to fit the schema, and that would just be a pain.

Phungus, some modcomps of interest:

1) CAR mod: I know everyone on the boards has to know about this by now. Any chance this is as great as it sounds? Anychance it will make it in to LoR?

2)Multiple Derivative Civs + Special Colonies. I know people have asked for somewhat similar function. It seems to fit in with revolutions. Do you think this would benifit LoR at all?

3)Individual Era Unit Art Styles (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=324877). Wouldnt add much to the game, but would increase the moddability of LoR. Any chance you could look at this and see if it would be hard to include this, and if it is stable? If it would be included, there are several units I could put in to make use of it (probabaly 50+units, 10-15mb). From what I gather in the thread, the units change to whatever the latest era tag is. So I figure all I would have to do is change all <middleartdefinetag> to <medeivalartdefinetag>. Then if I had a renasaince art for a unit I would have to add a <renasainceartdefinetag> line in the UnitArtStyleTypes for that unit.

I also read about (1) and if it would actually work, it would be great :) I could finally play bigger maps again. The second one (2) would be really cool to not have wierd derivative civs spawning from revolutions and/or colonies. I would be in favor of at least those two, but not sure how easy/difficult it is to include or if it is stable enough.

What's CAR Mod?

Phungus, some modcomps of interest:

1) CAR mod: I know everyone on the boards has to know about this by now. Any chance this is as great as it sounds? Anychance it will make it in to LoR?
CAR is being incorporated into the next release of RevDCM, so it'll be merged into LoR once RevDCM is updated, should be a couple of weeks, according to glider. Lots of improvements in the upcoming RevDCM version. It'll be a major update.

2)Multiple Derivative Civs + Special Colonies. I know people have asked for somewhat similar function. It seems to fit in with revolutions. Do you think this would benifit LoR at all?

3)Individual Era Unit Art Styles (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=324877). Wouldnt add much to the game, but would increase the moddability of LoR. Any chance you could look at this and see if it would be hard to include this, and if it is stable? If it would be included, there are several units I could put in to make use of it (probabaly 50+units, 10-15mb). From what I gather in the thread, the units change to whatever the latest era tag is. So I figure all I would have to do is change all <middleartdefinetag> to <medeivalartdefinetag>. Then if I had a renasaince art for a unit I would have to add a <renasainceartdefinetag> line in the UnitArtStyleTypes for that unit.

Neither of these seem worth the trouble. The second one, with individual era units would require a rebuilding of the unit art again, so no I'm not a fan of adding it :p

What's CAR Mod?

CAR mod. Speeds up turn times.

My map is updated, Phungus. You're using an extreamly old version in LoR. Here's the newest version: http://www.filefront.com/14457785/Earth-28-Civs-1.3.rar/

Ok Phungus, slight problem with adding new leaders. The numbers dont add up. As of right now we have 65 leaders (Full roster of 66 minus Lenin and Reagan, plus Trung). There are still 16 one leader civs:


Aztec
Maya
Sioux
Iroquois
Portugal
Netherlands
Viking
Byzantium
Carthage
Mali
Ethiopia
Zulu
Sumeria
Babylon
Khmer
Korea

So that would make 81 leaders. Adding Strategic will bring the total possible trait combinations to only 78. We will be 3 short.

So I think having several civs with only 1 LH would be better than leaving 3 civs out. And taking away civs seems like a less than optimal situation, as both official expansions added far more than 3 new civs each. On the other hand a new trait would be great. They added 3 new traits with the 2nd expansion, none for the 3rd, so are we good with only adding 1 for the 4th?

Whats your take on this?

Ok Phungus, slight problem with adding new leaders. The numbers dont add up. As of right now we have 65 leaders (Full roster of 66 minus Lenin and Reagan, plus Trung). There are still 16 one leader civs:


Aztec
Maya
Sioux
Iroquois
Portugal
Netherlands
Viking
Byzantium
Carthage
Mali
Ethiopia
Zulu
Sumeria
Babylon
Khmer
Korea

So that would make 81 leaders. Adding Strategic will bring the total possible trait combinations to only 78. We will be 3 short.

So I think having several civs with only 1 LH would be better than leaving 3 civs out. And taking away civs seems like a less than optimal situation, as both official expansions added far more than 3 new civs each. On the other hand a new trait would be great. They added 3 new traits with the 2nd expansion, none for the 3rd, so are we good with only adding 1 for the 4th?

Whats your take on this?

Actually, you're adding two new traits (Enlightened/Strategic). What's the Strategic trait entail?

Actually, you're adding two new traits (Enlightened/Strategic). What's the Strategic trait entail?

No, enlightened is already figured into all that. What I was saying is that adding strategic might not be feasible due to the reasons I mentioned in the previous post, unless compromises are made. So that would still only leave us with the one new trait, enlightened. But that seems very meager for an expansion pack.

Strategic gets a 50% reduction in unit upgrade cost, I think a small bonus to espionage, and a small cache of money at the start of game.

OK, here is a build with Strategic set up. I modified it quite a bit, so it's not the same as how Berenthor has it.

Strategic:

Units can be upgraded outside national borders
Spys start with Logistics
Double production speed of spys
Double production speed of Stables, Airbases, and Intelligence Agencies


So achilleszero now it's on you to select and add the new leaderheads. You already know the requirements, but just to list them off real quickly for others; the quality of art must be equal to that of the default firaxis leaderheads (like the current added leaders in LoR), the leaders must be familiur, or baddass enough where if you hear their story you think you want to add them (like Trung Trac). Also they should be prioritized so that new ones are added to civs with only 1 leader, but his isn't a requirement. Reagan has to go, but you can leave or kick out Lenin, your choice. You also may cut Poland or Austria, add back in the HRE, and remerge the Native American Civs, it's your choice, however you want to do it. If you want to do anything else, discuss it first, but cutting Poland, Austria, reimplementing the HRE, or merging Native America can be done on a whim if you so choose. Trait Combos may not be repeated, but you don't need to use every trait combo if you can't find acceptable leaderheads to fill the spots, there were 3 holes in BtS's combos, and it's fine if LoR is missing a couple combinations as well, I'd prefer we fill it all, but don't force it. The traits you select for the leaderheads is entirely up to you, with a couple exceptions: Hitler must be Agg/Cha, Saladin Enl/Spi, and Hannibal must have Strategic as one of his traits. Now it would be nice if all civs had 2 leaderheads, but that's impossible, so don't stress over things too much, it's alright for a couple civs to end up with 1 leader, and it's also OK if a couple civs with 2 leaderheads currently end up with 3. Mainly just make the leaderheads you choose be high quality, that's the most important part.

Finally, unrelated to leaderheads, we need a model and unique button for the Kobusan, and the same for the Wayfinder Legend Unit.

That is everything for now. The current 0.9.7 test build for you to work with is a light version, this is because for now we are working with core features, new leaders and units which will be in the core mod. Will move on to releasing a 0.9.7 full test build once you get this stuff done, and also once it's done Alsark can start working on civilopedia entries.

Here is the link to the current test build for you to work with:

http://www.filefront.com/14620339/Legends-of-Revolution-v0.9.7-light-test-Setup.exe/

Well, if this is a democracy, I vote to keep Austria. :)

Here's a cursory list of new Leaders that I have compiled:

Iroquois: Logan
Portugal: Henry the Navigator
Carthage: Dido
Ethiopia: Halie Selassie
Byzantium: Constantine & Heraclius
Maya: Smoke Jaguar OR Topiltzin
Babylon: Nebuchadnazzer
Viking: Harald II
Mali: Sundiata Keita
Netherlands: John de Witt
229590
John de Witt is not pictured. I think Berenthor uses a recolored Colonization LH. Also Not sure if De Witt would be best for the Dutch or if Harald is a good leader for vikings. So that still leaves me with the whole Constantine/Byzantium thing. Is there a way for him to appear as both a Roman and Byzantine LH but avoid having him available when both those civs are on the map? That would be cool as Rome and Byzantine would both have 2 LHs and then share Constantine.

So the only 1 LH civs left are Aztec, Sioux, Khmer, Korea, Zulu. The only good Aztec LH I see is Azozotl, and Im pretty sure she wasnt even a leader or anybody important. There are no other Sioux LHs out there. Pol Pot is the only Khmer LH, and it would need a better texture job first. And there arent any zulu LHs right now.

I dont think I can re-add the HRE. Casimir is just a recolored Charlemagne. Casimir would have to be cut to make way for HRE. Unless anyone knows of a good substitute for Casimir.

Cool, you're making about as good as progress as I am aparently. Too bad on Azozotl, I never heard of her, but if there was some cool stuff on wikipedia about her (or even another source), she'd definatly be useable, but if she's nobody, she's nobody. Course wouldn't be that bad to take artistic license once, she is a really good leaderhead, my personal vote is just to use her anyway, your call of course. Pol Pot is a no go though. I'm all right with using murderous bastards, and aparently so is firaxis, as Stalin and Mao are in the commercially available game, and Hitler is in LoR. But at least those three had a historical impact, but all the :):):):)er Pol Pot did was kill a 1/3rd a of his own population, that doesn't fit into the definition of greatness by any reasonable understanding. I mean at least hitler started WWII and conquered most of Europe for a bit, and Stalin arguably industrialized Russia, but Pol Pot, all he did was devistate Cambodia. BTW, I don't see Trung Trac on there, don't forget her :)

Now I'm going to go back to merging.

Cool, you're making about as good as progress as I am aparently. Too bad on Azozotl, I never heard of her, but if there was some cool stuff on wikipedia about her (or even another source), she'd definatly be useable, but if she's nobody, she's nobody. Course wouldn't be that bad to take artistic license once, she is a really good leaderhead, my personal vote is just to use her anyway, your call of course.

Ill see if I can find another female aztec who she could stand in for.

BTW, I don't see Trung Trac on there, don't forget her :)

Oh yeah. Ekmek isnt finished with her yet, not to mention Id have to fix it to where its just her and not both sisters. So we may wind up with using a temporary stand in.

Actually looking at those pics, I'm going to need to nix Topiltzin and Sundiata Kieta. They both look way to much like the leaderheads they are based on. They are basically just minor reskins in my oppinion, and thus aren't up to LoR's standards.

Actually looking at those pics, I'm going to need to nix Topiltzin and Sundiata Kieta. They both look way to much like the leaderheads they are based on. They are basically just minor reskins in my oppinion, and thus aren't up to LoR's standards.

Ok. Topiltzin was in just in for alternative for smoke jaguar. Sundiata I could care less about. There are supposed to be some other African LH's being made but no word on them.

I can't really find much else available on the forums. So I took a look at Civ Gold. Most of the leaderheads in it are just obvious reskins and can't be used in LoR. There are some unique looking leaderheads though, that I don't see in your post above. I'm not saying I like these, but since you had a couple of reskin models posted I figured you were scraping the bottom of the barrel and could use some alternative models if any are around. Remember we can always rename the models, it's not like if someone is called Ayetambola in Civ Gold, we'd need to do the same in LoR. With that note, here are the only unique models I could find in Civ Gold, I think we've looked everywhere, so what you've got and this is about all there is. Maybe you can use some of these leaderheads, maybe not, but I figure it can't hurt to take a look, and it'll save you the time of downloading, installing and starting Civ Gold yourself (took 20 minutes to load up on my comp!):

http://www.filefront.com/14634277/Decent-Leader-Art.zip/

OK, I now have a working RevDCM 2.6 Core (latest SVN, it's not the official version yet, but it'll make merging alot easier once the official version comes out since I've plowed through the tuff stuff already using the latest SVN) version of LoR. I'd like to get a test version out, with all the new leader slots filled, so that people can test it. That'll help with the RevDCM 2.6 cycle anyway as more people will be testing the latest SVN and finding any bugs before an official release. I know you don't have all the leaderheads picked out yet, but could you release a placeholder update so I can get a functioning (all be it not pretty) test build out for people to start debugging?

Phungus, here is a working FPK with the new leaders in it and thier associated xml. Trait list isnt finalized but I just threw the last few together to get a working model. The new LHs in so far are:


Constantine
Heraclius
Dido
Johan de Witt
Henry the Navigator
Harald hadraba
Smoke Jaguar
Logan
Halie Selassie
Nebuchadnezzar
Trung Trac (old Wu Lh is just filling in till new Trung is completed)


Havent decided whether or not to put in Atotoztli or use one of those colonization meso LHs that you showed me from CivGold.

There is also a plain text file with some rudimentary civlopedia,diplo and/or first contact text for most of the leaders. Mostly jsut one liner first greeting text, all except for trung. But some have full diplo text and fully translated. I couldnt figure out how to put it in, it kept spitting out errors so I just isolated the entries for you to use. Several of them could severly updated or fleshed out, but atleast its something till Alsark fixes them up.

Also there is one ArtDefines entry for Scyth Chariot. I changed the model but I do not have a clean version of ArtDefines because I am updating several units (moslty modern era with new Motor infantry and Modern troopers to flank MI, but also changing out some bad/not well done models for better looking ones). So that one entry should be pasted over scyth's entry in both light and normal LoR's xml.

0.97 test LH's

Nice. Will have a test build up in a couple hours then. Will start out with only a light version for the test build. We might as well wait until you get your new full art stuff in to put out a full version test build. And yeah, this doesn't need to be perfect, placeholders are fine, the purpose of the build is for bughunting.

BTW, how did the trait combos work out? You said you needed another warmonger trait last time you built the list. Also what combos (if any) are missing?

BTW, how did the trait combos work out? You said you needed another warmonger trait last time you built the list. Also what combos (if any) are missing?

There are now 3 missing traits: Ind/Phi, Str/Cre, Org/Pro, I think. Not really sure as notepad++ crashed when I was saving my master list. But maybe one of those could be switched out because I wound up with 3 or 4 less than desirable pairings; like Logan with Cre/phi (not so bad but I think he needs a different one).

The addition of strategic has improved the pairings a great deal. This was by far the easiest list to make so far. There are many leaders that are much more well described now. I do need to know a few things to help me finalize this list.

1)Will it be possible to make Constantine a dual civ leader? Or is he just going to be relegated to one or the other. I need to know because If is only a Byzantine leader than I can keep him as Imp, but if he is a Roman or a Dual Civ LH than I dont want all 3 roman leaders to be Imp.
2)Heraclius. Should he be renamed as Basil or kept as heraclius. Which one do you think is more epic? Im fine with just heraclius.
3)We could put back in Charlemagne and HRE, to make alot of people happy. I dont really care one wy or other. Only thing is Casimir would then have to go since he is just a red Charlemagne. Also would Firaxis ever have gotten rid of a civ? Either way all civs will not get 2 leaders, so maybe it wouldnt hurt to make 2 more 1 leader civs.

1)Will it be possible to make Constantine a dual civ leader? Or is he just going to be relegated to one or the other. I need to know because If is only a Byzantine leader than I can keep him as Imp, but if he is a Roman or a Dual Civ LH than I dont want all 3 roman leaders to be Imp.
Definatly possible. If we reimplement HRE (which looks likely), I could see doing this with other leaders.
2)Heraclius. Should he be renamed as Basil or kept as heraclius. Which one do you think is more epic? Im fine with just heraclius.
I don't really care. Maybe someone else will chime in with a preference.
3)We could put back in Charlemagne and HRE, to make alot of people happy. I dont really care one wy or other. Only thing is Casimir would then have to go since he is just a red Charlemagne. Also would Firaxis ever have gotten rid of a civ? Either way all civs will not get 2 leaders, so maybe it wouldnt hurt to make 2 more 1 leader civs.
Since we are missing 3 pairings, I say reimplement HRE. That would make it easier to fill all trait combos, and seems more in line with an expansion.

We need two more civ colors though. But both HRE (if you choose to add it), and Iriqious will need unique colors, and currently there are none, and I don't know how to add new colors.

Edit: The new update included some new art (for BUG and BULL), which wasn't inluded in your packed art. No big deal, it's added back in, but just keep that in mind for the next update.

Edit: The new update included some new art (for BUG and BULL), which wasn't inluded in your packed art. No big deal, it's added back in, but just keep that in mind for the next update.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention why I used a 0.96 fpk. When I installed the 0.97 test. It did some wierd stuff. It got rid of my 0.96 shortcut like normal, then gave me a new shortcut that linked to the old 0.96. It had installed the new 0.97 files but didnt un-install the old 0.96 files which was still getting linke to by the shortcut. So i wound up just uninstalling both and then seperatly re installing 0.97 test. After all that I had forgotten about it and was already working and packaging up the 0.96 Wolfshanze.fpk

On the Strategic trait. It seems like a very cool trait. But the main ability of upgrading in enemy territory seems like it would be really powerful on fast and normal speeds, but then get weaker on epic and marathon. What happened to the upgrade reduction? Was the code too hacked up to use, or too conflicting? If so, is there any other military ability that could be added on with out making it overpowered? Possibly also dealing with upgrading, or ramping up the pace of your military.

On the Strategic trait. It seems like a very cool trait. But the main ability of upgrading in enemy territory seems like it would be really powerful on fast and normal speeds, but then get weaker on epic and marathon. What happened to the upgrade reduction? Was the code too hacked up to use, or too conflicting? If so, is there any other military ability that could be added on with out making it overpowered? Possibly also dealing with upgrading, or ramping up the pace of your military.
I just didn't like the reduced upgrade price function. It isn't unique, and when it comes down it, it's just another way to save money, and since a penny saved is a penny earned, it's basically a financial trait, at least in terms of high end gameplay. By giving Strategic the ability to upgrade outside of the civ's borders it's definatevily unique, and geared toward war. I may need to remove the double production Spys though, it may be too powerful. Gameplay testing is the only way to find out.

Unfortunately Harald is also a straight Ragnar reskin, he sticks out too bad, and isn't up to the quality of an expansion pack. Flip between him and Ragnar in the Civilopedia, you'll see what I mean. There are two other high quality leaderheads for the Vikings though (Sweden): Gustav Vasa (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12971) and Gustave II (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11735), so it's no loss.

Also keep in mind to seperate the light files, which the current test build is based on, and the full art build. The CivilizationInfos and ArtDefinesLeaderhead files were modified full LoR files, not a big deal as it's only a couple files, and it's imediatly obvious, but in the future I could see LSystem or lots of files getting confused and creating problems.

Test build released. Test builds are meant for bugtesting and development. So if you're interested in bug hunting and development feel free to download and play it, if you find anything odd, be sure to report it. Also added in a new traight, Strategic, and I'm interested in feedback from users on how it works, and any ideas or concerns about how to tweak it for balance.


For those actively developing, We need text. All them new leaders need civilopedia articles. That's the main issue. Achilleszero you already have a pretty full plate, but if you want to start working on the full version art stuff, please insure you build your XML off of the files in this test build, as some information in UnitInfos and such has changed. That's all I got, just please remember to report any bugs you find in the test build, and give feedback, as that's the purpose for releasing it.

Changelog
LegendsTest beta: 0.9.7a (light)

Implemented many new leaders
Updated to RevDCMSVN revision 165 (most recent)


LegendsTest beta: 0.9.7 (light)

Implemented new Trait Strategic
Opera's fix for religious advisor screen so Enlightened shows up culture from non state correctly
Minor tweaks to UnitInfos (req resources in navy, and free promotions for Red Baron)


The current test build is at the top of the list of available download mirrors:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8199812&postcount=4

Unfortunately Harald is also a straight Ragnar reskin, he sticks out too bad, and isn't up to the quality of an expansion pack. Flip between him and Ragnar in the Civilopedia, you'll see what I mean. There are two other high quality leaderheads for the Vikings though (Sweden): Gustav Vasa (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12971) and Gustave II (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11735), so it's no loss.

Didnt even notice that. I thought it was an original model. Oh well, it doesnt even look like Harald was supposd to. Being a FFH LH and all. I think I'll go with that Gustav Vasa, as its based on a colonization LH so it looks slightly better. Id rather have a "viking age" viking, and that harlad guy was supposed to be the last of the viking age. But I think everyone has used that wolf skin model as a crutch and never has created any real Viking LH's.


Also keep in mind to seperate the light files, which the current test build is based on, and the full art build. The CivilizationInfos and ArtDefinesLeaderhead files were modified full LoR files, not a big deal as it's only a couple files, and it's imediatly obvious, but in the future I could see LSystem or lots of files getting confused and creating problems.

Crap. Im already getting confused to which files need duplicates. For some reason I cant have both versions installed at the same time like I used to have. oh well.



Does the DebugDLL from 0.96 work with this 0.97 test?

Just had to try 0.9.7a... but playing a pre-placed map (Lean's), it seems no units are spawned and all civs start dead, with the AI autoplaying and within a minute be well past 1700AD even in epic speed. See first screenshot below. Using the clean random placement map works fine though.

Secondly, I figured I'd try the new-to-core strategic trait, complete with my suggestion of upgrading units outside cultural borders. :king: Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work at all. :(

I used unrestricted leaders and had Henry the Navigator as leader of the Chinese (as he has the same Expansive/Strategic pairing as per the LoR Leaderheads add-on). Teched to bronzeworking complete with hooking up the resource.

I can upgrade units in my own territory (obviously), but couldn't in neutral territory. Signed open borders with the Indians and said warrior still couldn't upgrade. Declared war and still no dice (yes I waited a turn in all cases ;)).

Im already getting confused to which files need duplicates. For some reason I cant have both versions installed at the same time like I used to have. oh well.
I've set up the new test build to coexist seperatly from LoR. The old one did as well, just an issue with the shortcuts, but that's fixed now. As far as having a full version and a light version, just rename one of the folder, and change the ini file and CvModName.py files to correspond to the new name. The uninstaller wol't work, but that's not an issue, just delete it (the uninstaller will still remove the registry key, as that wol't change if you rename the folder).

Does the DebugDLL from 0.96 work with this 0.97 test?
It wol't work right, that's for sure. I'm not sure if it'll crash or not, no way to know without testing. I doubt it would though, it'll probably just cause all sorts of python errors if you try to start a game, but I assume it will let you go to the opening screen and mess around with the civilopedia without issue.

Secondly, I figured I'd try the new-to-core strategic trait, complete with my suggestion of upgrading units outside cultural borders. :king: Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work at all. :(
Bahh, I can't figure out why, the SDK code is exactly the same, and I had it working with a RevDCM 2.5 core. This will probably take a while to fix, I can't see what could have changed in the latest RevDCM SVN that would have broken it :dunno:

Test build updated to 0.9.7b

changelog:
LoRtest: 0.9.7b (light)

Updated RevDCM core to SVN revision 167
Fixed Broken Strategic Trait
Added Civilopedia Entries for most new leaders

I like what you did with the strategic trait. Maybe as an added bonus instead of the spy one is the one with the XP from the military academy that I have in mine?

Also, if you are going to allow leaders for multiple civs (which I find a really good idea, especially for Constantine) you might also be able to give the HRE an extra by using Charles I (Charles the V for the Roman Empire) for both the Spanish as HRE (the only problem is that one is known as the first and the other as the fifth). The same holds I think for Francis who was both of the Austrian and HRE houses. If I remember correctly how BtS works, it checks for a leader to already be in use and not via the civ so adding a leader to two civs should probably work right out of the box (though I haven't tested it yet).

Just curious, how's it going with adding the promos from the Three Kingdoms Mod to the Legend Units? Is that still in play?

Test build updated to 0.9.7b

changelog:
LoRtest: 0.9.7b (light)

Updated RevDCM core to SVN revision 167
Fixed Broken Strategic Trait
Added Civilopedia Entries for most new leaders


Which files have been changed? Can I just throw in the new DLL and python so I dont have to re-install?

Which files have been changed? Can I just throw in the new DLL and python so I dont have to re-install?
You have to reinstall to get the files, as it's all packaged in an .exe. There were some XML and Python changes, as well as dll.

Wow, no one loves this mod, it's sad :(

Gotta finish though, very close. I feel forced to put out a build to update to the next official RevDCM release.

but still, I watch other mods and they get like a 100 downloads in the first day for their test builds, and this mod gets a half dozen. I think it's about time to pull the plug on this project to be honest. It'll still exist, but it don't need me, achilleszero, or these forums to really be here. And there don't seem much point in development to continue. At least that's how it looks now, this mod just can't compete, it might be best for the talent to work on other projects. I'm just being honest here, it feels like LoR is a low end two bit mod. Other mods get 500 downloads in the time LoR can get 40, and I can't see a situation where LoR can crack 10K downloads. I think it might be near time to pull the plug on this project. My goal was always to make something that was used, and abused, and I don't see either occuring. It's just more a hobby design, that no one really cares about except a few people that have ran across it on the forums. Don't really mean much, and certainly don't seem like it's worth the work put into it. After the next major update, looks like the humane thing to do will be to pull the plug. I tried, but it ain't good enough, is all I can say.

It's actually a very good mod, and lots of folks enjoy it. I think there are a few things going on that reflect your concerns. The first is that the game is old, alot of folks have moved on, and I'm not sure anyone is going to come out with a mod that gets the kind of enthusiastic response of, say, Rhye's, for example. If that's what you're looking for, you're going to always be dissappointed.

Secondly, there isn't a definitive version yet. Until there is a solid "marketable" version of this, the downloads are going to be pretty sporadic. There needs to be a version that combines all the elements that you wanted included in the first place, and then leave it alone except for updates to the game core and debugs. Civ games are not short - my last LoR game took me almost two months to play; I'm not going to be in any hurry to update my version in the middle of a game, especially if what I have works.

Third, the most recent version is a test build. It's not going to have alot of downloads, because most people don't have the time, or inclination to "break" the game to aid in the debuging. They just want to play it. A hearty salute to the folks that downloaded the test build, and a thank you for their efforts, but most people are going to wait for a final build and don't want to muck about with a test build.

You've put together a really good mod here, Phungus. The downloads will all be there when it's finalized. :goodjob: