*** WARNING ***
Finding and locating BUGs in 2.7 is hard enough for Zappara without all the modmods.
Adding 4 or 5 modmods will make it nearly impossible. If you want to add this mod,
please do so at your own "risk". I'll try to help at the best of my abillity, but please
remember that I'm no Zappara ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=218773&stc=1&d=1245828188
Commander (Industrial) / General (Modern)
Chief (Classical) / Captain (Medieval) / Privateer (Renaissance)

Greetings Warlords!
This mod will add 5 new minor* great generals in two variants : Army (Built) and Single (Captured)
* Cannot join city as military instructor, Cannot build special buildings

Build/Unit Icons
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=223333&stc=1&d=1249314383

These Warlords are brutal mercenaries that will fight for the highest bid. When build they'll come with their own private army, that are capable of building forts (Generals can also build bunker) and bombard fortifications (not the Chiefs), however they can also be built without henchmen and join your regular army as leaders. If an enemy Warlord's private army is attacked and destroyed they will surrender, and can then be used to join one of your units as a leader.

Stats :

All Warlords gets 10% production bonus from each of the following : Gold, Silver, Gems and Pearls

Name / Tech req / Bonus req / (Single = name / xp for join / move)
max=# per civ / cost=Normal speed :hammers: / xp=xp to joined unit / str=strenght
br=building rate for forts / wd=Withdrawel chance / b=Bombard % / ec=Extra Cost
UC=UnitCombatBonus : Me=Melee Mo=Mounted Ar=Archer An=Animal Ci=City

Warlord Chief (Army) Tech: Military Training / Bonus: Copper or Iron / (Warlord Chief / 5 xp / move 1)
max 2 / cost 100 / NA / str 6 / br: 100% / wd: 5% / b: 0% / move 1 / ec: 1 / UC: Me25 Mo25

Warlord Captain (Army) Tech: Guilds+Smithing / Bonus: Iron / (Warlord Captain / 10 xp / move 1)
max 3 / cost 200 / NA / str 12 / br: 125% / wd:10% / b: 4% / move 1 / ec: 3 / UC: Mo25 Ci25

Warlord Privateer (Army) Tech: Leadership+Matchlock / Bonus: Iron and Sulphur / (Warlord Privateer / 15 xp / move 2)
max 4 / cost 300 / NA / str 20 / br:150% / wd:15% / b: 6% / move 1 / ec: 6 / UC: An50 Me50 Ar25 Mo25 Ci25

Warlord Commander (Army) Military Science+Rifling / Bonus: Iron and Sulphur / (Warlord Commander /20 xp / move 2)
max 5 / cost 400 / NA / str 30 / br:175% / wd:20% / b: 8% / move 1 / ec: 10 / UC: An100 Me100 Ar50 Mo25 Ci25

Warlord General (Army) Logistics+Guerrillia Warfare / Bonus: Steel and Ammo / (Warlord General / 25 xp / move 3)
max 6 / cost 500 / NA / str 50 / br:200% / wd:25% / b:10% / move 2 / ec: 15 / UC: Ci25


Let the war... begin....


Download moved to Vincentz Mods (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326447)

And the link is where?

ran into some unexpected problems after updating to 3.19 (2.7). Coming soon.

These Warlords are brutal mercenaries, that will fight for the highest bid. If their private army is attacked and destroyed they will surrender, and can then be used to join one of your units as a leader. When build they'll come with their own private army, that are capable of building forts (Generals can also build bunker) and bombard fortifications (Not the Chiefs), however they can at any time leave their private army of mercenaries and join your regular army as leaders, giving up their mercenary status.

Could you clarify this?

Regardless, it looks top notch, and I added it to my game.

mmm. I try. Its definately my most complicated mod, so the best way is to play it and then find out ;)

When you build the warlord he will be together with a couple of "units" (see picture) and have the leader promotion (that unit can have leader upgrades). But he also has the "lead unit as warlord" ability (like the great general), which means he can discard his original group and join one of your choice (looses his xp, but get an xp bonus depending on his era). In the first state (mercenary) he can be captured if he's attacked and loose. He will then turn into a single unit that can join a unit of your choice like the great general. After that he cannot be captured again and will die if that unit dies. In his single state he can also be captured.

As I said : pretty complicated but once played it will be much clearer.

Some time ago I have found other "style of Warlords". This warlords have cargo space for units and making an army. But this is very complicated mod and need a lot of SDK and Python changes... So I must forgot about it...
Anyway this mod have all what I very miss in RoM. If you need new attributes for this modmod I will be happy to do it :king:

Vincentz can this be used with your other warlords mod?

The way my warlord looks, something on this picture is quite suspicious... ;)

What to do to avoid the messy graphic changes of units (this one is mighty strange though as usually all cav units change style european/asian, not only one)

wow! that surely looks strange :eek:. Could be because I mixed the mercenaries units with ethnic version (best example is the chief that uses barb units in his group.). Did this warlord start out as a privateer or was he upgraded. was he captured or did you build him? is it the same with infantry? Sorry for asking a lot of questions but I havent seen this before :confused: Maybe he still maintain part of his merc status ;)

Are there any other stuff about the warlords that seems wrong/could be changed?

I really appreciate any input. Will upload a version later today without ethnic merc units. Hope that will fix it.

edit : mmm. I tried to simulate the bug, but without succes. the cavalry to the left was joined from his merc state, the cavalry in the middle was joined from a single unit warlord and the cavalry to the right was joined after I beat another euro-etnic warlord with cavalry and then joined from single state.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=218990&stc=1&d=1245995568

Vincentz can this be used with your other warlords mod?

No, it will overwrite it. But since Warlords 2 will change the battlefield strategy alot I didnt want to take down the simple version.

I hope you dont mind if i use your stuff, its really interesting and good stuff. Keep up the good work.
I've changed a few things to make them work with my mod. I am using just about all of them, but i cant get that industry one to work yet, but i am trying. I like the Agents/JungleCamp ones also.

I hope you dont mind if i use your stuff, its really interesting and good stuff. Keep up the good work.
I've changed a few things to make them work with my mod. I am using just about all of them, but i cant get that industry one to work yet, but i am trying. I like the Agents/JungleCamp ones also.

I don't mind at all. Feel free to use any or part of what I made. I'm just glad other people like it :) The industry was quite tricky. If you make it modular in your mod you have to include all your existing improvements too. The WoC standard changed that, which is why you'll only find the industry defines in the Industry Mod. But take a look how I did in my first industry mod : Upgradeable industry improvement.

Could be because I mixed the mercenaries units with ethnic version (best example is the chief that uses barb units in his group.).

Did this warlord start out as a privateer or was he upgraded. was he captured or did you build him? is it the same with infantry? Sorry for asking a lot of questions but I havent seen this before :confused: Maybe he still maintain part of his merc status ;)


The Warlord was built by me and attached to a cavalry, didn't try it with infantry yet... Sorry I can't be more helpful atm, but this graphical glitch just made me curious. I think most of the times all 3 horsemen looked same, but then - suddenly - one changed his uniform, so I took a screenie (+the same time that happened the warlord looked into the sky as if he wouldn't recognize it^^)

I'm almost sure its because of the ethnic nature of some of the merc "units" (the blue shirt guy in front of the bombard on the main picture is a viking arquebusier as I didnt like the standard). It would make sense if the warlords where all the units where "wrong" was from the Warlord Chief, and the one with only 1 "wrong" was from either the Captain or the Privateer. The strange thing is that it carries over to the new unit. Its to bad i cant simulate it, even when I build it from a city. But I'm trying a game with china now to check it out. I'll post a etnic cleansed (uh that sounded bad) warlords II soon. Maybe tomorrow as I have to make new .nif files for some of the units (Barb axe+spear, battering ram and arquebusier).

Sorry I can't be more helpful atm, but this graphical glitch just made me curious.

You can be very helpfull now ;) I still cannot get this glitch, but I changed some art defines from ethnic to new defines. (no longer assyrian and viking). It should work with previous savegames. Let me know if it fixes the glitch.

Does this addon need Warlords 1 to be installed or does this already contain it or what's the case?

Nope, warlords 1 is not needed. I made warlords 1 and saw a huge potential, so I expanded it greatly. Warlords II will overwrite warlords 1.

Nice modmod:goodjob:
But why the warlord doesn't give 20exp?He lead an unit right(like how GG did):p

hehe, The best a warlord can give is 15xp (general, modern age). But since they can be build I think they would be to overpowering if they started out with 20xp ;)

Update : version 1.4

Added new build/unit icons (Easier to spot the difference)
Changed workrate (too slow before)
Changed strenghts (too weak before)
Changed installpath (easier to install/uninstall/view Vincentz Mods)
Changed Commander techreq to Military Tradition
Changed General techreq to Logistics
Added upgrade option for captured Warlords

Update : version 1.4

Added new build/unit icons (Easier to spot the difference)
Changed workrate (too slow before)
Changed strenghts (too weak before)
Changed installpath (easier to install/uninstall/view Vincentz Mods)
Changed Commander techreq to Military Tradition
Changed General techreq to Logistics
Added upgrade option for captured Warlords

Yay!
And thanks for notification :D.

First of all, sorry to the folks who downloaded V1.4 yesterday. It had some bug, where you couldnt capture a city with later warlords. Therefore a new version : Warlords II v1.5

Added bonus req (See spoiler in 1. post)
Added tech req (see spoiler in 1. post)
Added combat bonus (see spoiler in 1. post)
Removed citycapture BUG
Removed Barb ethnicity on Chief (Since it didnt work with always hostile/hidden nationality)
Added Bonus production (10% each) from Gold,Silver,Gems,Pearls (Thoose Warlords are some greedy bastards)

(Those Warlords are some greedy bastards)


Well YES i am, thank you very much!!:lol:

:eek:
OMG
Modmodder here is very active
Thanks for all of your work:goodjob:

Some feedback

Thank you for a very entertaining addition to the game!

It's definitely staying in my mod for the forseeable future.

I played a full Monarch game with them, with settings prone towards a war-heavy game (Revolutions, Raging Barbs, Aggressive AI, I also hand picked a few particularly narky leaders), and this is what I found:

+ I adore them, they're a real interesting choice. And gaming is supposed to be about meaningful interesting choices.

+ the AI adores them. There was rarely a stack of doom without a general/warlord, and sometimes in his bigger attacks I saw 2-3 of the damn things.

+ I love the way they retain their general graphic. I had quite modern units being led by a guy in deerskins with a cape. That made them unique. So much so that I started giving them names "General Steel", "Colonel Hill", "Leiutenant Shabash", etc. It really added to the game in a great way to have such identification with the units.

I'd have General Steel leading his pikemen in to defend the capital from a surprise attack by the Ottomans, instead of just moving x of y pikemen. It's an extension of what I'd always done with very highly promoted units (I'd use the in-game rename feature to rename anyone who got to Combat-5 "Elite..." for example).

Overall, the addition of this flavour was excellent.

I don't have much to say in terms of balance - I almost never used them as private armies on their own. At the technology level they appeared at, there was almost more military advantage to adding them to an existing unit, for reasons of promotion synergy mostly.

- AI did seem to fairly consistently use them as they were, not adding them to units, though. Bug/feature, or limitation of the game structure possibly. In the past, the AI had quite regularly used Great Generals attached to units, so there clearly is code to do so. Perhaps giving them strength/abilities and xp made the AI treat them like UNITS instead of GREAT PEOPLE.

- Whereas, on the other hand, after dabbling with one or two as armies, I started using them ENTIRELY the other way, as additions to an existing unit.

Because (a) there was a limit on the number of army units you could use, and (b) there were better synergies to be achieved by ROM's many various over-promoted base units, and (c) the benefit of free xp with general promotions was just too good.

Which got me thinking - I think there are two units here, not one.

There are Army units - which have a place in the game, as leaders of stacks of doom with different promotions. Flexible units that can reduce walls, raid, and so on.

And there are Commander great people - like half-a-great-general that get added to units because they can't be added to a city.

I'm not sure of the value of Army units, I think they'd need to be rebalanced according to their cost and rarity. Make them DAMN GOOD, but make them damn expensive as well, so that at comparable tech levels, the AI won't just build entire stacks of them.

But the Commander units are awesome enough to be a mod on their own.

What I did find was that I was farming XP for my best "Generals" though. The mechanic for adding xp to the entire stack means that I could:

- make 2 production-heavy cities.
- build units in the main one with the great generals (bonus xp)
- build warlords in the other one
- move warlord and unit to the same tile
- meet them there with an existing general I wanted to "boost"

- click "Add to unit"
- the 5/10/whatever xp that gets divided onto the stack then would go HALF on the newly Warlorded unit, and HALF on the general being boosted.

This mechanism is infinitely repeatable, but expensive. I could have been building twice the number of non-warlord units for the same amount of hammers after all. But in a game where the "Increased Unit Maintenance Mod" was kicking me around financially, I was doing anything I could with my ample supply of hammers to create SMALL ARMIES of very effective units.

Exploit? Perhaps. Expensive enough to be fine as is? Maybe.


What my thinking led me to, was that possibly the best way to handle this would be to split these two functions into two separate units.

Maybe make an "Armies!" modmod and a "Commanders!" modmod.

The commanders are buildable great generals, the armies are combo units with general promotion accessiblity?

Just a thought!


Final bits of feedback -

- the promotion tree for generals is a bit "muddy". It's got all sorts of various unequal options, making some promotions a "must have" and others a very dubious choice at best. I think some time could be spent cleaning it up a bit to make it a logical tree of equally valid choices, with rewards for specialisation.

That's not something to do with this mod really (unless you decide to make it to do with this mod). But it does distinctly impact the effectiveness of this mod, so I thought it worth mentioning.

And one final bug - I had a lot of normal GP great generals - as I played on Aggressive AI, with August Caesar (Imperialistic). A few of my "normal" great general pops came out as Warlords. This was always a bit of a let down, as a great general is worth more overall. Is this intended that you sometimes get one of your Warlords from normal Great General generation?

Wow! This feedback/info is worth gold :D Thanks. I really appreciate it.

+ I love the way they retain their general graphic. I had quite modern units being led by a guy in deerskins with a cape. That made them unique. So much so that I started giving them names "General Steel", "Colonel Hill", "Leiutenant Shabash", etc. It really added to the game in a great way to have such identification with the units.


I thought a lot about this. An alternative could be to give them "modern" look in modern times, but they could easely be confused with Warlord Generals. So I'm gonna stick with "General Steel", "Colonel Hill", "Leiutenant Shabash" ;)

I don't have much to say in terms of balance - I almost never used them as private armies on their own. At the technology level they appeared at, there was almost more military advantage to adding them to an existing unit, for reasons of promotion synergy mostly.

In v1.5 I gave them some more strenght/bonuses which should bring them to at least an equilivant opponent. Might have to up their strenghts even more. The new stats are updated in Spoiler in the first thread.

- AI did seem to fairly consistently use them as they were, not adding them to units, though. Bug/feature, or limitation of the game structure possibly. In the past, the AI had quite regularly used Great Generals attached to units, so there clearly is code to do so. Perhaps giving them strength/abilities and xp made the AI treat them like UNITS instead of GREAT PEOPLE.

I started make warlord (1) before the update to 3.19. One of the reasons why I made Warlords II was that the AI wasnt happy about building them as single Warlords. So I added the private army and vupti, the AI builds them. The AI should be "fixed" in 3.19 making it better at joining vanilla Generals with units, but already in 3.17 they were pretty good at using the captured Warlords for leaders (nothing else to do with them).

- Whereas, on the other hand, after dabbling with one or two as armies, I started using them ENTIRELY the other way, as additions to an existing unit.

Because (a) there was a limit on the number of army units you could use, and (b) there were better synergies to be achieved by ROM's many various over-promoted base units, and (c) the benefit of free xp with general promotions was just too good.

My biggest problem is the way the Warlords are now. They can be exploited by human players. When I uploaded 1.5 I actually thought about making an optional patch taking away the Warlords (Army) ability to <Join Unit As Warlord>. That way the only way human players could attach them was with captured Warlords as the AI does, making them more valuable (have to give them bigger xp bonus). On the other hand : the xp bonus the Warlord gives when build now, is so small that it would propably be a better strategy to build something else (examples : 1 Chief (str6/100:hammers:) or 2.5 axemen (str5/100:hammers:) / 1 Captain (Str12/200:hammers:) or 2 macemen (str10/170:hammers:). Later when the xp becomes better its still an expensive way of boosting the armies. When that said, I actually had Warlords on all the major cities by the medieval era. Which is why I will make them not able to join when they have their private army (in v1.6), but make a patch with the second for those who still wants warlords all over the place.

Which got me thinking - I think there are two units here, not one.

There are Army units - which have a place in the game, as leaders of stacks of doom with different promotions. Flexible units that can reduce walls, raid, and so on.

And there are Commander great people - like half-a-great-general that get added to units because they can't be added to a city.


The problem is the AI. They cannot see the huge advantage by building the Commander type, which means they wont build them at all.

I'm not sure of the value of Army units, I think they'd need to be rebalanced according to their cost and rarity. Make them DAMN GOOD, but make them damn expensive as well, so that at comparable tech levels, the AI won't just build entire stacks of them.

I tried to balance them by giving them some bonuses (+against mounted or melee etc), and I dont know which version you used, bet they have been boosted to fit their era. Might give them more,

But the Commander units are awesome enough to be a mod on their own.

I'll make a small optional patch, but I dont think the AI will build it, making it unbalancing.

What I did find was that I was farming XP for my best "Generals" though. The mechanic for adding xp to the entire stack means that I could:

- make 2 production-heavy cities.
- build units in the main one with the great generals (bonus xp)
- build warlords in the other one
- move warlord and unit to the same tile
- meet them there with an existing general I wanted to "boost"

Damn. With the 20+xp from the vanilla Generals plus the 15xp from the Warlord General. Would have made som SoD ;)

- click "Add to unit"
- the 5/10/whatever xp that gets divided onto the stack then would go HALF on the newly Warlorded unit, and HALF on the general being boosted.
Could also be done with the vanilla generals, but another good reason not to be able to join the built warlord, but only the captured ones.

Exploit? Perhaps. Expensive enough to be fine as is? Maybe.
Exploit for sure. I dont like when the human player can use the system in an unfair way giving a huge advantage. It should be our strategy not the "BUGS" that makes us victorious ;). I too spammed Warlords, giving my city defense good bonuses and making upgrades cheaper (At least they are not for free anymore, Thanks Zappara ;))

What my thinking led me to, was that possibly the best way to handle this would be to split these two functions into two separate units.

Maybe make an "Armies!" modmod and a "Commanders!" modmod.
Its actually only a couple of 0's being replaced by 1's in a single file that makes the difference. If people wants warlords in every stack (and I have to say I kind of liked it, having feudal warlords guarding every major city, and I guess realistic enough) then they can dl the "patch". No sweat. :cool:

Final bits of feedback -

- the promotion tree for generals is a bit "muddy". It's got all sorts of various unequal options, making some promotions a "must have" and others a very dubious choice at best. I think some time could be spent cleaning it up a bit to make it a logical tree of equally valid choices, with rewards for specialisation.

I agree on this one too. And not only for the generals (IMO), I usually end up giving my units the starpromotions (at least until they have 3 stars and can get some interesting promotions) Unfortunately the new WoC standard makes it nearly impossible to change existing values, so that changing the promotions couldnt be done modular.


That's not something to do with this mod really (unless you decide to make it to do with this mod). But it does distinctly impact the effectiveness of this mod, so I thought it worth mentioning.

In warlord (1) I made an alternative leader promotion for my Warlords. Unfortunately the sideeffect was you could join BOTH a warlord and a general to the same unit. So I skipped it.

And one final bug - I had a lot of normal GP great generals - as I played on Aggressive AI, with August Caesar (Imperialistic). A few of my "normal" great general pops came out as Warlords. This was always a bit of a let down, as a great general is worth more overall. Is this intended that you sometimes get one of your Warlords from normal Great General generation?

I had a slight suspision about that, and it was confirmed in a test game I just made, where a Warlord General (Army) was born in the middle ages. I'm almost sure where to locate that BUG (I used the great general as a template when I made the warlords). It will ofcourse be removed from Warlords II v.1.6 ;)

And again : Thanks for you very valuable information/view. I'll see it will be put to good use ;)

Hey I think some files are somehow misplaced for me. All the Warlord units show up as red blobs, which as I understand means the art files couldn't be found. This installs right to Rise Of Mankind/Assets/Modules right?

The Warlord Folder should be in
....\Civilization4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind\Assets\Modules\Projects\Vincentz

I put all my mods in 1 pack, and changed the directory, so its easier to uninstall those you don't want.

Hey vincentz do you know when you will release a fix for the great general bug?

Great General Bug? Are the Warlords still being mixed up with Great General Births?

Did you put the fix in the merged one vincentz?:confused:

Well, I havent seen a "bastard general" ;) being born by AD 1 in my testgames, only vanilla generals. So I think I fixed it. But if one is popping up, let me know. I also fixed the exploitation glitch, though some might not like it. The Warlord can only join another unit in his single (captured) state now.

Huh I downloaded the packed version and the bug was fixed for me, must've been patched. However, now I can't attach my warlords to units. It seems like it might be intentional, but I want to be sure. Great job on all your additions

I did not know you made a fix.;) Thanks vincentz I will now let you go diving. Good luck.:goodjob:

However, now I can't attach my warlords to units. It seems like it might be intentional, but I want to be sure.

Intentional. It might have been the reason for "bastard general" births (could also be another thing I changed), but could also be used as an exploit, since the AI would never use it.

I uploaded a file that brings back the <Join unit as Warlord> for the built ones, though I cut the XP bonus severly (1xp for chiefs to max 5 xp for generals).

If you use it, let me know if the "bastard general" births BUG is still there ;)

By "Bastard General", do you mean that when a Warlord is built in a city, it shows up as a great person? I had that happen without JOIN.rar . I took a screenshot but about 80% of my screenshots corrupt.

With "Bastard general" I mean when a normal general would be born (after getting enough great general points by combat) it would sometimes be one of my warlords (army) that was born instead of the vanilla general. I only noticed it once myself, but that one was a Warlord General (Army) being born in the middle ages. This bug should be fixed in the Vincentz Mods install.

Hello,

You may want to update your signatue because with all your acitivities recently, your sig is outdated *lol*. Not a must but wanted you to know :D.

By the way, Vincentz.

I modmodmodded this, so that BUILT warlords could JOIN as General, but did not give any free xp.

That seemed an equitable balance for me - if you spent all those hammers to get an army unit, then gaining access to the general promotions was a fair reward for all that production. That way I could still make myself a whole pile of "Named Men" to do specific jobs but without the potential for peace-time xp farming.

let me knows how it works out. The problem, as I recall, was that sometimes the Warlord with army would be granted/born instead of great generals. If that is not the case anymore I'll make the same changes as you did ;)

Oh - I thought *all* the "bastard births" were a bug you were hoping to plug eventually?

I did still get 1-2 per game of Warlords on their own in the last game. Does having the Army Warlords be join-able increase their bastard birth chance?

yep. I came down to that the reason why was because of the lead as warlord promotion. I put upgrade paths and extra tech / bonus reqs on the warlords, so now its only the Warlord Chief (single) that is born (and rarely), which is acceptable IMO. Ofcourse if anyone could find a way to completely remove the "bastard" births, I'd be gratefull ;)

Hrm.

Well - what I want is the ability to give units that unique 5-pointed star icon (lead by warlord), and a name, and as a "nice to have" the warlord promotions.

Maybe the easiest way would be to make the Warlord (Single) buildable as a separate unit (again)?

They're already in the game, so the chances of bastard births won't increase. They obsolete and go through stages, so their cost will always be "expensive for the era", which makes the balancing work...

What do you think?

Oh, and one slight (and probably completely unavoidable) side-effect of being "people" not "units" is that I meant to mention to you.


A Caravel and a Submarine can carry an Army unit :-) When they can normally only carry Scout, Spy, Special People, etc.