Leaders & Legends add-on [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Berenthor

Jun 26, 2009, 11:37 AM

Leaders & Legends Add-on for LoR

Leaders & Legends Version: 0.15
Compatibility: LoR 0.9.6c*
Download here: http://www.filefactory.com/file/ah919a1/n/L_amp_L_0_96c_rar
Mirror: http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/135549/L-L-0-96c-rar.html

As discussed in one of the other traits, I am working on adding some more leaders and legends into the game. The leaders that are added are mostly focussed on making sure each civ has at least two leaders (this to look better when revolution component forces a leaderswitch, when there is 1 leader, nothing happens).

Installation:
Unzip the contents of the rar file into the Beyond the Sword\Mods directory. It will overwrite the LoR that is already installed so make a back-up first!!!

I currently have the following list for additional leaders. The ones marked with a star are not necessary (because the civ already hasmore leaders) but I like the leaderheads. I'm still looking for some ideas for Zulu and Vietnam.

Leaders:

Austria:

Maria Theresa*

Aztec:

Atotozti

Babylon:

Nebuchadrezzar

Byzantine:

Constantine
Basil

Carthage:

Dido

China:

Taizong*

Dutch:

Johan De Witt

Ethiopia:

Sellassie

Greek:

Themistocles
Philip II
Alexander

Inca:

Pachacuti

Khmer:

Pol Pot

Mali:

Sundiata Keita

Portugal:

Henry the Navigator

Rome:

Marcus Aurelius*

Spain:

Charles I
Franco

Sumeria:

Sargon

Viking:

Harald II (the bearskin leaderhead)

Sioux:

Red Cloud

Iroquois:

Logan

Korea:

Kim Jong Ill

Traits:

Mercantile/Commercial

+15% :food: from :traderoute:
+15% :hammers: from :traderoute:
Double production speed of Custom House

Strategic

25% less :gold: to upgrade
(+50% Great General Emergence)
(or Free promotion (combat or withdrawal) for mounted and armor units)
or+2xp from Military Academy

Seafaring/Maritime

Begins the game with knowledge of sailing
+1 Movement for naval units (with Astronomy)
25% Faster production of Caravel

Nationalistic

No upkeep cost for government civics
Faster production of Jail
-25 War :mad:

For the additional leaders, I do need some additional traits. I like the Mercantile and Seafaring traits from Tsentom. What do you think of those? Also, would the Strategic trait from Tsentom be overpowered (the one with 50% less upgrade cost)? I think the strategic one should be lowered to 20 or 25% less upgrade cost and something extra (maybe faster building times for certain units or free promo for mounted and/or armor units to symbolice the change in strategies to mobile warfare). For mercantile I'm still looking at changing the name and maybe adding a reduce in city or distance maintenance. For the seafaring, it should get some additional bonusses to make it more usefull overal.

Also, I would be open to some ideas for legends (I don't want to spam it full, it should still be balanced and special). All ideas welcome (art should be available for it).

Legends:

Santa Maria
Swiss Guard
Adler von Lubeck
HMS Victory

Berenthor

Jun 26, 2009, 11:37 AM

Future Versions:

More Leaders:

Arabia:

Abu Bakr

Macedonia (new civ):

Philip II
Alexander

Maya:

Shield Jaguar?

Vietnam:

Minh M?ng?

Zulu:

Cetshwayo kaMpande?

India:

Akbar*

Persia:

Xerxes*

Japan:

Jengu* (not necessary, already enough leaders)

New Civilizations:

Macedonia (Alexander & Philip II) -> definatly going to be added
Sweden (Gustav Alphonsus)
Gran Columbia or Viceroyalty of South America or Peru (Simon Bolivar & Jose de San Martin)

For the greek I'm not yet sure. It would be really cool to split them in Macedonia (with Philip II and Alexander the Great) and Greece (with Pericles and a leader with the old Alexander model) but I'm not sure about the differentiating factors (barrack replacing building of course for Macedonia and the Companion cavalry maybe. The greek would then get the hoplite as UU which was not in that form used by Philip and Alexander). This is just some brainstorming. Any ideas welcome.

A civ which I'm also pondering on adding is maybe Gran Columbia (with Simon Bolivar and maybe someone else (not sure who, not so versed here in that areas history)). But these could always be released seperatly. The civ could also be broadened to incorporate Central America or something.

More Legends:

I-400 Carrier Submarie??
Afrikakorps

Credits:

achilleszero (for all the help with the art)
phungus (for LoR)
all mod makers of the leaderheads and units (will specify later when I have the time)
mod makers of the various pieces incorporated into LoR

Previous versions:

L&L v0.1 (for LoR 0.95c*):

Mirror 1: http://www.filefactory.com/file/ah7f...mp_L_0_96c_rar
Mirror 2: http://www.megafileupload.com/en/fil...0-96c-rar.html (http://www.filefactory.com/file/ah7f...mp_L_0_96c_rar)

L&L 0.1 (for LoR 0.94b):

http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/131177/L-L-rar.html

achilleszero

Jun 26, 2009, 03:20 PM

Good deal, your own thread.

So as I was saying before, you could use any of tsentoms traits, but several of them need major reworking. You mentioned that you were interested in seafaring trait as well. There are a few problems with that one. Firstly it describes more of a culture than a leader or personality trait. Secondly, it would need boosting, since navies and ships are almost a side note according to how Firaxis has the game steup. Thirdly, it is a very narrow trait in that there are only a few civs to give it to. Carthage, Vikings, Portugal, Dutch, England. A good trait should be able to be attached to more than just that.

Possibly a merging of the Mercantile trait and Seafaring to symbolize a merchant traading people as a whole, would be in order. Seafaring as it is now is pretty much 2/3 of a trait. Some of the secondary powers of the LoR traits are almost good.

If you are adding close to 20 leaders you will need two traits minumum. And 3 if you really want every one to be described fairly and not stuck with lame pairings because you are running short on traits. Thats assuming you stick with the one trait/one leader axiom.

As far as legends go, I can help make the models if none are readily available or you desire a better match. EdgeCrusher has a lot of legends in his Heroes modcomp, with some great abilities.

BobTheTerrible

Jun 26, 2009, 05:22 PM

achilleszero

Jun 26, 2009, 07:16 PM

I was thinking it would be cool to make traits for civilizations (each civ gets one) and then keep the current traits for leaders. That would add a little bit of variety and make civs have something to set them apart regardless of who's leading them.

Kind of like in RFC where you have a civ goal and ability? Thats something that Ive wanted for a while minus the win condition.

Two or so traits per leader and then one grand over arching trait shared by all leaders of that civ. So playing the americans actually feels different than playing the english. That would be a tall order to come up with 30+ traits for each civ. But a good idea none the less.

Roland Johansen

Jun 26, 2009, 09:22 PM

Another mod, total realism has these traits for civilisations (next to the traits for leaders). But there's a limited number of them so some civilisations share the same trait.

Berenthor

Jun 27, 2009, 03:12 AM

Sounds like a really cool idea. But my main focus is now on first getting this done :). Afterwards maybe if we can come up with enough ideas. It would be really cool (like civ world spells from FFH2 or something).

Berenthor

Jun 27, 2009, 10:24 AM

Structured the first post a little better and added some ideas for making the traits more usefull and balanced. Also added some more ideas for legends. I would appreciate any feedback, especially on the traits.

BobTheTerrible

Jun 27, 2009, 11:24 AM

Kind of like in RFC where you have a civ goal and ability? Thats something that Ive wanted for a while minus the win condition.

Two or so traits per leader and then one grand over arching trait shared by all leaders of that civ. So playing the americans actually feels different than playing the english. That would be a tall order to come up with 30+ traits for each civ. But a good idea none the less.

It doesn't necessarily have to be 30 unique traits. Just a few more general ones (which would be describing the culture of the civilization, not the personality of the leader).

achilleszero

Jun 27, 2009, 12:35 PM

Berenthor, I like the general directions you are going with the Strategic and Seafaring trait. I feel though that it will be a small challenge to merge any of the abilities of Agg or Imp and not make those two traits seem crappy. I have always felt Agg could be boosted some. Imp was already boosted slightly but I think maybe it could be as well. Regardless of all that maybe Strategic could get a building bonus too. Cant do it with the military academy, but may be you could add a small science boost to MA or even +1 xp to MA's for Strategic. Or faster Security Burueas.

Seafaring is already looking much better. The old one was way too geographically specific forcing the player to fight to the ocean to get any benefits what so ever. It wouldve sucked to have seafaring and then get a landlocked starting position.

Did etiher Bolivar or San Martin have anything to do with central america, besides panama being apart of Gran Columbia? I think San Martin would be better for a Argentine or southern South America civ.

Possible leaders:
Vietnam: Minh Mạng (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minh_Mang)
Zulu: Cetshwayo kaMpande (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetshwayo_kaMpande)

Finding leaderheads for them are going to be a problem. Youll probably wind up using another East Asian LH for the Viet and then I dont even see a tribal African LH you could use for the other one.

Berenthor

Jun 27, 2009, 03:24 PM

achilleszero

Jun 27, 2009, 04:30 PM

Those are nice suggestions for the traits. Do you think mercantile could use a boost? If both Agg and Imp were going to be boosted, what would you suggest? Maybe I can incorporate that. For the strategic and seafaring there are some "or" suggestions. Which do you think will work better?

Im not sure if Mercantile needs a boost or not. As I am unsure exactly how the extra foods and hammers through trade routes works. That is one that I would really need to play to get a grip on its mechanics and power level.

As far as boosting Agg, that is something I have struggled with for some time. Maybe adding a unit class to the free combat promo. But Id really like it to see it gain some different ability besides the free combat. Imperialistic is another problem. It has already gained a revolution related ability so maybe its good now. But to me the trait has never really seemed to closely describe imperialism or empire builder.

As for the leaderheads, I'll try to look at what leaderheads would look good for them. The reason for not picking directly Gran Columbia is because it only existed a short time and I wanted to try to combine Peru (San Martin) and Gran Columbia (Simon Bolivar) for example into one civ (name is still a problem, any suggestions?).

Both of those leaders are problems, as they both were presidents of severaly countries, and lots of different counties claim them as their hero. My original thoughts of Bolivar, when Phungus added him, were to make a Gran Columbia. That is until I really read up on it and found out how short lived it was. But that was just the name Gran Columbia. It was always just known as Columbia, and some view it as it never really broke up (Peru said that it broke up and was not existant, there by nullifying its peace treaties with it). Rather some view it as Ecuador, Panama, Venezuela, and the smaller countries just splitting off of Columbia. Which I tend to agree with. So Gran Columbia is a valid civ choice in my opinion, plus Gran columbia just sounds better than plain old Columbia.

Im not sure if your better off just making San Martin a leader of an Argentine civ. He hass several problems that Bolivar has. He was the 1st president of Peru. But like for a year. Both men are considered liberators of Peru, San Martin starting it and Bolivar finishing it. So considering that Id be hard pressed to pick one over the other for Peru. But considering how much Argentines revere him as their national hero I think it would not be good to give him to another civ.

achilleszero

Jun 27, 2009, 09:01 PM

2 more civs that need a 2nd leader:

Sioux: Red Cloud or Crazy Horse

Iroquois: Joseph Brant
Yeah I know, English name. But read the link. If I had thought about it I would suggested him over Hiawatha, as not much is know of who Hiawatha was or did. But this is probably one of those cases where mass name recognition trumps realitly.

One more thing about San Martin leading Argentina. If you go with Argentina there is already a LH for a 2nd Argentine leader: Peron by Ekmek.

More civs for consideration. Not really ones that I particularly want but ones that I know there is a big call for in mods and ones that atleast have a leader head.

Hebrew/Israel: David and Solomon: one is by Ekmek and the other by theCapo. Possible UU's: Slinger and Maccabee. Not sure about UB.
Hittites: I know Ive seen LHs for two leaders, just cant find them right now. UU could be what ever that 3 man chariot was called. And UB could be Iron Forge.
Thailand/Siam: Mongkut LH by Capo. Not sure on UU's and UB. Ill ask my father next time I see him as he spent time their and is well versed in their history.

Berenthor

Jun 30, 2009, 02:50 PM

I added two sugestions for the leaders by AchillesZero, I forgot about the native american civs :mischief:. I am definatly going to add Macedonia as a civ, with the new package by Bakuel I am convinced. For the others I'm not sure. I just started adding the traits into the game but I hit a snag: I wanted to change colony or city distance costs for the seafaring or mercantile trait but I have no idea how to do it. Does anyone have any idea? It should be be python probably but I can't find the maintenance or colony identifiers anywhere in python. Any idea where?

achilleszero

Jun 30, 2009, 04:34 PM

phungus420

Jun 30, 2009, 04:39 PM

I wanted to change colony or city distance costs for the seafaring or mercantile trait but I have no idea how to do it. Does anyone have any idea? It should be be python probably but I can't find the maintenance or colony identifiers anywhere in python. Any idea where?

Open up Revolution.py with notepad++ or some sort of codewriting utility (dont' use regular notepad)
Search for phungus

It'll take you to the city distance calculation code. It's actually pretty self explanitory, this is the first actual code I ever worked on (though It's completely re written from what I first wrote), but the thing is I was able to figure out that code, and tweak it originally with no knowledge of coding. I just used common sense and math to figure things out. So you may be able to as well. If not, feel free to ask any specific questions.

Berenthor

Jul 01, 2009, 02:02 AM

Thanks phungus, I was looking in completely the wrong place: I was looking in the CvUtil and PyHelper files or in some of the original py files and didn't think of looking in the revolution ones.
Another question about this: if you want to give experience to a unit upon building (like barracks) but only do it with a certain trait and building (strategic gives MA +2 extra experience for example), were can you change that? In the DomPyHelper file there is a function called getFreeExperience but when I change this, nothing happens.

phungus420

Jul 01, 2009, 02:06 AM

Berenthor

Jul 01, 2009, 02:08 AM

Berenthor: For your macedonian civ, since there are only 4-5 macedon units in that pack, I could make some more to flesh out the macedon unit line up.

Sorry, cant answer your question, but Phungus probly knows. Him and python are like best friends:p.

That would be great, thanks. I'll try to get a first version out as soon as possible. Now with phungus' answer I can start making the traits. I have a few arts already in the game so now on to the leaderInfos. I was thinking myself of keeping the Greek set as it is (with the exception of the swordsman and horseman which I want to replace with the spartan swordsman and horseman from Bakuel's set) and use that swordsman (hypaspist) and horseman (companion cavelry as UU) for the macedonian civ. The rest of the macedonians I want to use from Bakuel's pack. I think the sun emblem would be cool for all the shields. For the modern era units I think I use more russian material (the greeks have US/European material).

Berenthor

Jul 01, 2009, 02:09 AM

I'm honestly not sure. You'll have to ask in the main forums. Honestly if I were to do this, I'd do it in the SDK, and create a new tag in the XML for it, instead of using a python hack. But most modders prefer working things like this in via python, as it's sort of simpler (no issue with compiling, etc.), and it makes it easier for merging.

Thanks, I'll ask there. The reason I don't want to use the DLL is also that I want to make it as easy as possible to use as an add-on for LoR. Making just python and xml add-ons makes updating to newer versions and compatibility a lot easier.

Merri

Jul 02, 2009, 02:33 AM

Berenthor: I can provide the Finnish strings for your add-on once you get close to a release :) Although I'm not sure whether I'll do the Civilopedia entries as well; probably not.

Lachlan

Jul 07, 2009, 02:52 PM

1) I propose to choose on a panel of four french leaders :

Like Clemenceau... "Le Tigre" (surname)
Like Leon Blum... "1936" (creation of french social laws)
Like Philippe Petain... "Maréchal nous Voilà" (Vichy's song)
Like François Mitterand "La Force Tranquille" ("French Obama" of 1981 and accessorily called "Ayrton Septennat" (parody based on Ayrton Senna and the fact Mitterand has ruled France frome 1981 to 1995))

2) Suggested french UU :

- Brigades du Tigre (1920 epoch, Clemenceau's special forces)
or
- GIGN or GIPN (current special forces)
or
- Char d'Assault Renault (superior to Panzer, its German contemporary, but not produced just at time)
or
- Resistant (popular force which opposed to collaborators with Nazy Germany)
or
- Poilu (early WWI infantry)
or
- Grognard (napoleonic infantry, think of 600.000 mens en route to russia)

Sorry i can only speaking into modern era since France has revealed all its potential in this period, perhaps an UU from 800-843 AD but i dont have any clue on this...

3) What about spliting Arabian Empire into two or three entities...
Or Carolingian Empire, which symbolized union of Christianity in Western Europe...

4) What about including a system of dynasty with randomly created leaders with any pros/cons randomly choosed ?

5) As answer to Achilles Zero for a king before Louis XIV, i could suggest Henri IV "Paris vaut bien une messe" or Clovis the Frank, the first "Christianized" French Leader, converted in 511 AD

Berenthor

Jul 07, 2009, 03:29 PM

Small status update: I've added several leaders in and added 4 new traits. Still figuring out good combinations (not wanting to use combos more than one). I have half the leaders in, although I'm still contemplating some leaders (Zulu, Vietnam, Sioux and Iroqois for the leaderheads notably). Which leaders will be removed in the new version and which will be added, so I don't add these now (maybe I will anyway but just so I know)?

Question: how do I add a trait to the sevopedia? I added it in the TraitUtil in the first function (addTrait) but it still does not show up. Any idea what's wrong?

@lachlan: I'm not going to add more leaders to France. They already have three leaders so that is not in the planning now. Also I was not planning to add a UU for them, they have two already so that is enough in my opinion. Maybe I'll think about splitting the arabian empire but for now I think it works good as it is. There are some additions of civs that I want to make, notable Macedonia and a south-american/gran columbia type of civ but not much more. Thanks for the suggestions though.

achilleszero

Jul 07, 2009, 08:00 PM

Small status update: I've added several leaders in and added 4 new traits.

Cool ,which traits did you wind up adding?

Still figuring out good combinations (not wanting to use combos more than one). I have half the leaders in, although I'm still contemplating some leaders (Zulu, Vietnam, Sioux and Iroqois for the leaderheads notably). Which leaders will be removed in the new version and which will be added, so I don't add these now (maybe I will anyway but just so I know)?

Mattching that many traits will very likely make you tear out your hair. So its probably a good thing that you added a lot of traits so everyone gets a better chance at being described well. For the Zulu leader, I know theCapo is making one of the exact leader we discussed.

Question: how do I add a trait to the sevopedia? I added it in the TraitUtil in the first function (addTrait) but it still does not show up. Any idea what's wrong?

4 of the XML files that I know of that are needed for techs are: CIV4GameText_Civlopedia_BTS, CIV4GameText_Civlopedia_Techs, CIV4GameText_Objects_BTS, CIV4GameText_Strategy. There might be more, but I know youll need those 4 to make a tech fully display in the pedia

Berenthor

Jul 08, 2009, 02:08 AM

Lachlan

Jul 08, 2009, 04:53 AM

It come to me an idea for France since i see numerous mythic founders of countries in your add-on...

What about Merovee the founder of Merovingian french dynasty, circa 400-500 AD...

Clovis I is as mythic as its father Merovee...

You want mythic leader isn't it ?

:goodjob:

Berenthor

Jul 08, 2009, 06:15 AM

I don't fully understand what you're saying Lachlan. "Mystic" leaders? For the french, I don't want to add more leaders since they already have three leaders and that is more than enough for now in my opinion. The same for a french UU. They already have two so I won't be adding one there.

Lachlan

Jul 08, 2009, 06:31 AM

No, i said "Mythic" on sense of "legendary"...

I have seen that you have added full of Legendary Leaders, so Merovee or Clovis I are both legendary... Since like most of your added rulers, they may can not existed in sense of verifiyed history...

achilleszero

Jul 08, 2009, 10:36 AM

Okay thnx, I'll look into those files. Now it doesn't even display in the list at all (not even without description) but it is working for the leaders. I added nationalistic, seafaring, strategic and mercantile. I kept mercantile as it was. Strategic has +25 less gold cost for upgrade and added +2xp from military academy. Maybe I'll add a flanking promo for mounted and armor units and make the xp just 1. Nationalistic I kept as it was and seafaring for now also, because I couldn't find a good extra bonus. The city distance/colony maintenance is not modifiable via python per trait. I don't want to touch the DLL because it is hard to update for an add-on. I'll post the write-up of the traits as I have them now in the first trait. Do you have suggestions for the seafaring? Is nationalistic balanced you think?

Oh yeah the TraitInfos.xml in the civilizations folder needs to be updated with your traits as well.

I seem to remember Tsentom having an espionage bonus added to Nationalistic. I believe it was in his mod thomas' war. Thats too bad about your other Seafaring' ability needing DLL. Thats making it harder and harder to ever do anything on my own with traits. I do think that Seafaring needs an ability that the civ can use right away. It does have Sailing at the begining, but 1)you may be landlocked 2) It is a bit before you ever have more than one galley. Werent you considering some kind of boost to rivers for it? That would be nice.

You want mythic leader isn't it ?

I think you are confusing him with me. I might use your Clovis I idea.

Lachlan

Jul 08, 2009, 11:52 AM

Sorry, i havent see, i thinked wrong...

Also, Achilleszero, you will really use Clovis I for the core mod ?

Nice ! But we have not portait of Clovis I :(

One clue : Clovis was Frank, and the Franks were originary from actual Germany, so they perhaps were near the Angles and Saxons and eventually Langobards or Frisons...

So, germanic portraying ?

Berenthor

Jul 08, 2009, 11:58 AM

This is how the nationalistic trait is currently in tsentom's mod. Do you think it is not balanced? Would you beef it? I have some ideas for seafaring (add extra traderoute or extra income for traderoute).

I added the trait and everything in the xml. It is a matter of python that it doesn't show up. I'll keep looking for it, but thanks for the help.

achilleszero

Jul 08, 2009, 12:25 PM

Also, Achilleszero, you will really use Clovis I for the core mod ?

Nice ! But we have not portait of Clovis I :(

One clue : Clovis was Frank, and the Franks were originary from actual Germany, so they perhaps were near the Angles and Saxons and eventually Langobards or Frisons...

No not the core mod. That completely belongs to Phungus. Also we cant add anymore to the core LoR as we have 65 leaders and there are only 65 possible trait combinations (we cant have repeats of traits). I would like to use him for my add-on/mod-comp, but I wont start on it till LoR is finished. But the big problem is to find a Leaderhead for him, I cant just use a picture.

This is how the nationalistic trait is currently in tsentom's mod. Do you think it is not balanced? Would you beef it? I have some ideas for seafaring (add extra traderoute or extra income for traderoute).

I added the trait and everything in the xml. It is a matter of python that it doesn't show up. I'll keep looking for it, but thanks for the help.

Oh, I could have sworn it had spy bonus. I might be confusing it with a deciever type trait he has is the mod. Or RoM's traits. It seems balanced enough. Just like to make the traits seem exciting or appealing to the player. With traits like financial and enlightened, players are drawn to the by its shear power alone. Traits like aggresive,charismatic, and spiritual their abilities are readily apparent on the map and are laways in your face. Ones like organized, even though it is very powerful, seem to be disliked by some players because it is so passive and the player doesnt get to interact with it. Its alway in the background. But really it seems to be powerful enough.

Berenthor

Jul 08, 2009, 01:38 PM

The diplomatic trait has the espionage bonus in his mod indeed :). I found how to add the traits to the list so that works now as well. I hope to have at least all leaders finished soon so I can release a first version. Can you tell me which leaders are going to be removed in the new version and which leaders are going to be added?

As for the french leader, I don't want to add it in this mod personnally because I already think the french have enough and because like you said there is not a good leaderhead for it.

achilleszero

Jul 08, 2009, 02:25 PM

The ones that got cut are Hirohito, Lech Walesa, and Napolean III. In there place are now Xerxes, Abu Bakr, and El Cid.

And I had to change these traits around to accomadate them:

Abu Bakr: org/spi
El Cid: Cha/Spi
Xerxes: imp/ind
Napolean: Agg/Imp
Zara: Cre/Org
Franz: cre/phi
Boudica: cha/org
Jan III Sobieski: org/pro
Qin: Imp/Pro

But I guess it really doesnt matter since you have to change a bunch of your own traits.

EDIT: by the way what did you have to do to make the traits show up??

Berenthor

Jul 08, 2009, 03:01 PM

Ah oke, that means that none of the civs will go from more to only one leader with this change. That is good. I will then probably don't add Xerxes and Abu Bakr (they were on my list as well).
For the new leaders, I only use a combination of my new trait with an original one (or a new one) so I don't have to mess with the changes :)

In the BasicInfos/CIV4NewConceptInfos.xml they also had to be added (together with the TraitUtil.py file) and then it showed up.

Wiz4War

Jul 09, 2009, 04:15 PM

If I might make a suggestion...for a legend. I know most of the discussion here is about leaders and traits, which I like to see. More options = better game play.

However...

I would suggest as a legend, HMS Victory

There are a great number of legend units from the early ages (Legio-X, Yeomen, Spartans, etc), and again lots of units for the industrial era (Bismark, Red Barron, etc) but there are not so many for the inbetween years.

The Barbary Corsair is an intelligent choice (and I try to build it whenever possible :D )
54th of Foot is also a great choice.

The HMS Victory has a long list of battle honours, and I think would make a nice addition to the game. Not to mention that she is still currently afloat, which makes her a legend for real ;)

As for art, specs and bonuses, I'll leave that up to you ...I can't draw to save my soul, and I don't know enough of the current balance of power to suggest what would make fair game play.

Berenthor

Jul 09, 2009, 04:36 PM

Thanks for the suggestion :) We mostly discussed leaders and traits because I started by adding that. I only have 5 leaders to go and then they are all there and I can start adding the new legends.
I like the suggestion for HMS Victory. Do you have by any chance an idea for art from other mods that might fit?

achilleszero

Jul 09, 2009, 04:48 PM

Berenthor, you are in luck as I have made an HMS Victory. It is the English Man O' War UU. It looks just like it and has 3 rows of working cannons (SoTL only has 2 rows). Of course that means that I would need to make a different Man O' War, but that would be just a changing of colors.

see pic

Wiz4War

Jul 09, 2009, 07:12 PM

Not to be a stickler for historical accuracy, but only Spanish Men 'o War had the cross on the sails. The British in particular wouldn't be caught dead with those sails :x

Otherwise, perfect!

achilleszero

Jul 09, 2009, 07:38 PM

Not to be a stickler for historical accuracy, but only Spanish Men 'o War had the cross on the sails. The British in particular wouldn't be caught dead with those sails :x

Otherwise, perfect!

Oh really? Well the sails I didnt make. I took them directly off of JustaTourists English ship reskins. He probably did that since the sail is the most prominent feature and really the only detail that stands out in the game. If I have time I might white them out.

Wiz4War

Jul 09, 2009, 08:12 PM

I'm sure no one really cares about historical accuracy...and you're right, the sails are rather prominent, so it makes sense from a visual aspect

achilleszero

Jul 09, 2009, 08:57 PM

I'm sure no one really cares about historical accuracy...and you're right, the sails are rather prominent, so it makes sense from a visual aspect

well if gameplay isnt affected, then we try to be historicall accurate. Unless something just looks so damn cool, we say to hell with accuracy, which isnt often. But it is good to know about the man o war sails.

Take a look at the barbary Corsair. I designed that. The ship is accurate, but the sail design pretty much got pulled out of my ass, because people love the joll roger and it looked really cool. When I release it in the DB though I will probably offer alternate/more accurate versions.

Wiz4War

Jul 09, 2009, 11:03 PM

oh the Corsair is fine. Looks awesome :D

the Barbary states tended towards black sails, and while they didn't use the jolly roger, I think that's good artistic license. Since they were, as opportunity arose, pirates.

JimboVT

Jul 12, 2009, 09:00 AM

I would like to make a suggestion if your going to be adding new leaders. Nelson Mandela as an alternative leader for the Zulus. I always felt that Fidel Castro should be in the game however IMO Cuba doesn't qualify as a civilization worthy of being in the game.

Just as a little feedback I downloaded LoR a few days ago and so far it seems bug free. I am really impressed with the design of it thus far as it really has the look and feel of being a real expansion pack and not just a mod. I haven't tried it yet but it seems like Enlightened potentially be a broken civic trait as scientific advancement is really powerful in Civ IV.

I am probably in a very small minority but I would like the option to remove a few leaders and civilizations that don't qualify as great IMO. Also on a side note is there a way you can incorporate a 5% slider (science, culture, commerce and espionage) in LoR? Not that I have ever been able to get it to work right but every time I try WoC it screws up on me but the concept behind it is really cool. Is LoR comapatable with WoC? Thanks again Berenthor for a well designed Mod and also Jdog who is the one that designed the Revolution mod to the best of my understanding.

achilleszero

Jul 12, 2009, 12:58 PM

I am probably in a very small minority but I would like the option to remove a few leaders and civilizations that don't qualify as great IMO.

Which leaders and Civs do you not find worthy of being in? Several Leaders have already been taken out and replaced. And you can easily do that yourself by deleting their XML entries.

Not that I have ever been able to get it to work right but every time I try WoC it screws up on me but the concept behind it is really cool. Is LoR comapatable with WoC?

Its compatible but there were problems with it just like you were having.

Thanks again Berenthor for a well designed Mod and also Jdog who is the one that designed the Revolution mod to the best of my understanding.

LoR is actually Phungus's mod. This thread here is for Berenthor's ModComp addition for LoR.

JimboVT

Jul 13, 2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboVT
I am probably in a very small minority but I would like the option to remove a few leaders and civilizations that don't qualify as great IMO.

Which leaders and Civs do you not find worthy of being in? Several Leaders have already been taken out and replaced. And you can easily do that yourself by deleting their XML entries.

Reagan and Hirohito IMHO don't cut it. Hirohito was IMO a weak leader who knew what was going on but tacitly stood by while others did his dirty work. Tojo was the one that really called the shots and if anyone should be included as another Jap leader it should have been him. I give kudos for including Meiji though. As for Reagan I guess I just have such a poor view of today's republican party and Reagan largely shaped it for what it is today. I will say that Reagan was without a doubt one of the most influential presidents in modern times so in that sense he is on par with FDR. My thing with Reagan is that I think America and California for that matter are largely worse off as the result of his policies. If I had to assign Civ traits to Reagan though I would make his traits finanancial (roaring 80s economy, deficit? what's that?) and protective (star wars and the emphasis on defense spending are marks of a protective leader IMO)

Poland definately not IMO. Poland's gotten its ass kicked in every war that it has ever been in although I do think Walesa (spelling?) is worthy. Including Poland in the game is like saying Peter McNeeley was one of the greatest heavyweight fighters of all time (Peter McNeely was the first opponent that Tyson fought after getting out of jail and at the time it was one of the biggest boxing PPV ever, fight lasted for about 20 seconds)

I would prefer that Greece be kept as is and not be split into Sparta, Macedonia and/or Athens for general game purposes. Thats the kind of thing best saved for a scenario. There are a few others but those are the ones that come to mind. That is just my nitpicking and like I said LoR is a huge improvement.

By the way I did figure out how to adjust the slider to 5% using notepad to go into the XML. I guess I am a little reluctant to mess with something unless I know exactly how it is going to affect the game. I didn't know until yesterday that all I needed to that was notepad

JimboVT

Jul 13, 2009, 09:51 AM

Its compatible but there were problems with it just like you were having.

This might be kind of a dumb question about WoC but maybe I am making some real obvious mistake. Now I understand that WoC in and of itself is not a mod but for purposes of loading it I am supposed to put it in the BtS Mods folder right :confused:? So from there when I load my civ game you go to advanced, select load mod and it should work but when I do that I get this program has encountered an error and must close :aargh:

Am I doing something wrong :confused: I have the most recent version of BtS.

achilleszero

Jul 13, 2009, 10:10 AM

Reagan and Hirohito IMHO don't cut it. Hirohito was IMO a weak leader who knew what was going on but tacitly stood by while others did his dirty work. Tojo was the one that really called the shots and if anyone should be included as another Jap leader it should have been him. I give kudos for including Meiji though. As for Reagan I guess I just have such a poor view of today's republican party and Reagan largely shaped it for what it is today. I will say that Reagan was without a doubt one of the most influential presidents in modern times so in that sense he is on par with FDR. My thing with Reagan is that I think America and California for that matter are largely worse off as the result of his policies. If I had to assign Civ traits to Reagan though I would make his traits finanancial (roaring 80s economy, deficit? what's that?) and protective (star wars and the emphasis on defense spending are marks of a protective leader IMO)

Well Hirohito has already been cut as of LoR Lite and will not be back in. Maybe your right about Reagan and we were just having this discussion in another thread. But one of the biggest problems with replacing leaders is finding a top notch Leaderhead graphic. If it is not one of the better LH's and the person is really alot better than Reagan, than it probably wont be put in.

Poland definately not IMO. Poland's gotten its ass kicked in every war that it has ever been in although I do think Walesa (spelling?) is worthy. Including Poland in the game is like saying Peter McNeeley was one of the greatest heavyweight fighters of all time (Peter McNeely was the first opponent that Tyson fought after getting out of jail and at the time it was one of the biggest boxing PPV ever, fight lasted for about 20 seconds)

You need to go back in time when Poland was actually powerful (well kinda powerful), back when it was an empire. Its true that its sucked in the past 200 years, but not back further. Read the civlopedia entries on Sobieski and Casimir III, they put several other empires/kingdoms in their place. With Walesa we actually deemed him the opposite of your opinion. He got cut and replaced by Xerxes I think.

I would prefer that Greece be kept as is and not be split into Sparta, Macedonia and/or Athens for general game purposes. Thats the kind of thing best saved for a scenario. There are a few others but those are the ones that come to mind. That is just my nitpicking and like I said LoR is a huge improvement.

Greece is staying just one greek civ in LoR. Berenthor is splitting it into Macedon and Greece for his Mod-Comp. This thread only pertains to his mod comp.

By the way I did figure out how to adjust the slider to 5% using notepad to go into the XML. I guess I am a little reluctant to mess with something unless I know exactly how it is going to affect the game. I didn't know until yesterday that all I needed to that was notepad

If you are new to editing the game. Make sure you make backup of the files. Normally with vanilla civ all you need to do is copy the file to the custom assets folder. But since LoR doesnt use that you have to edit the normal files unless you make it your own module.

I dont know much about WoC, but I thought that files went into the modules folder or a mod's modules folder. Im not sure. Any WoC advice from me is pretty much useless.

Berenthor

Jul 13, 2009, 12:48 PM

Been a while since posting, sorry about that. I'm going to release a first version today containing only the leaderheads (almost all of them) and the Santa Maria legend. The reason for this is that I want to have a first version out. It is going to be for the last full build (not the light version yet, I'll do that when I have time).

Also I added for myself some more diverse art for some units (list to follow shortly). However I did not limit myself to art with few polys. Most are probably okay but according to phungus, some are not. Maybe that AchillesZero could take a look at it :blush: (I'll post a list and the files as soon as possible).

To react on some issues:
Macedonia and Greece would be the only split (nothing Sparta, Athens, etc) because they are quite different countries and we have the leaders for both and I think I can make the art of the units different enough.
Hirohito and Reagon are still in this version because I don't want to touch the main mod. All contents in that mod will still be there in this mod only with some added content. Since the last full build still has Hirohito, in this mod he will also be there, but as soon as it is updated he will not be there anymore once I update.
For Poland: see AchillesZero's post, I think Poland fits well enough. Cuba I won't add, I'm going to use a similar leaderhead for Franco I think (not yet there however).

Berenthor

Jul 13, 2009, 01:36 PM

achilleszero

Jul 13, 2009, 01:51 PM

Here is the list of civ-specific art I have in my own version of LoR. If people like it, I can also release it in the modpack.

Battleship

Dunkirk (French)
Littorio (Rome)
Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya (Russia)

Gunship

KA 50 Kamov (Russia/China)

Air Cav

MI-24 Hind (Russia/China/Vietnam/Mongolia/etc)

Attack Submarine

Kilo (standard attack sub art, moved Los Angeles to be only American art)
U-212A (Germany/Italy)
Scorpene (French/Indian)

Transport --> new version of the Liberty transport of Snafu
Super Carrier

Kutzenov (new version from Xeno instead of original)
Illustrious (English)

Jet Bomber

B-52 (American --> new model from Xeno and Snafu)

Stealth Destroyer

XShip from the EE2 future units. Looks like an early design for a stealth destoryer, adds some variaty

Missile Cruiser

Sensor Destroyer from the EE2 future units. Looks like a design for a missile cruiser, adds some variaty

Carrier

Three carriers from Axis & Allies pack: German, US and Russian

Im pretty sure I recognize some of these. Im pretty sure a few of them were cut before I even started with LoR for having insane poly counts. I was planning on going back through all the machine units and fixing what I can. So if you want I can start on these, as several of them I had on the drawing board to add to LoR. Also Im adding a few of the other future/EE2 units after I fix their poly count (like the nuclear bomber as another UCAV). Can you post the units youve listed, I know I have them but there scattered all over the place.

Completely irrelevent sidenote: Im not sure what the x-ship was modeled after. It definitely is a future amybe stealth type destroyer. I know the one in the game is the proposed U.S. Zumwalt class stealth destroyer. Im not exactly sure what civs to give it to, but definitely not the US.

Berenthor

Jul 13, 2009, 02:27 PM

I have the models and xml packed here. I used the x-ship (that stealth destroyer) for the russians and chinese (don't ask me why exactly those). The stealth destroyer I used for an alternate missile cruiser (looked a lot like it I think).
I personnally completely removed the UCAV and made it an advanced fighter (called air supremacy fighter) and gave the models of the strike fighter to the UCAV and gave the strike fighter the models of the F16, F15, Mig29, mig21, etc.
I attached the art files and the xml I made (only the new entries and the civunitart) so it might help you incorporate them later without having to do to much work.

achilleszero

Jul 13, 2009, 02:52 PM

I have the models and xml packed here. I used the x-ship (that stealth destroyer) for the russians and chinese (don't ask me why exactly those). The stealth destroyer I used for an alternate missile cruiser (looked a lot like it I think).
Most of the units I think are set up like that, in east/west blocks.
I personnally completely removed the UCAV and made it an advanced fighter (called air supremacy fighter) and gave the models of the strike fighter to the UCAV and gave the strike fighter the models of the F16, F15, Mig29, mig21, etc.
Theres probably enough jets in the DB to make a class for all 5 generations of jet fighters and UCAVs. Problem is making room in the tech tree.
I attached the art files and the xml I made (only the new entries and the civunitart) so it might help you incorporate them later without having to do to much work.

Good deal. Hopefully I can lower the poly counts on all of these.

achilleszero

Jul 13, 2009, 05:01 PM

Berenthor, here are the fixed models. Only had to fix 4 of them: french battleship, Roman battleship, and the 2 Russian helicopters. the roman battleship is lower poly count now but is still at 2600. Everything else is under 2000. The two models you have for the Russian and English supercarriers are already in LoR so you can take those two out to standardize things. Definitely with the russian one, there is a bug with that original model as well as having way too many poly. I just fixed it recently.

220949

EDIT: Also, when you get all your leaderheads sorted out and finalized, I can take a look at them. Im pretty sure that I can cut down oversized textures and more efficiently compress alot of them. Ive been able too take probably 30 to 40% of the total file size out of LoR's LH's.

Berenthor

Jul 14, 2009, 03:23 AM

That was fast :) Thanx a lot. Is the Russian Supercarrier also the new model (the one with the gloss from Xenomorph) because in the last version I checked it was still the original model?

I will merge these into the release of L&L and hopefully release a first version today. I will upload the leaderheads unpacked here as soon as I get home today, I didn't know LH also were so inefficient.

If you want you can use them for the original version of LoR as well. Thats why I provided the xml for it seperatly.

Berenthor

Jul 14, 2009, 03:30 AM

Theres probably enough jets in the DB to make a class for all 5 generations of jet fighters and UCAVs. Problem is making room in the tech tree.

Yeah I just didn't want to add any extra units (because it gets cluttered really fast) so I decided to just remove the UCAV (because I don't like the concept personnaly) and make that the advanced fighter and make the strike fighter the currently used airplanes (4th generation: F16, F15, etc).

phungus420

Jul 14, 2009, 04:08 AM

I will merge these into the release of L&L and hopefully release a first version today. I will upload the leaderheads unpacked here as soon as I get home today, I didn't know LH also were so inefficient.

You should probably wait a little bit, I'm going to update 0.9.4a to 0.9.4b so I can have a full download that works (currently the main download is 0.9.3 which has a critical bug in it, it's fixed in the patch, but I'm noticing only about 1/2 as many downloads of the patch as the main mod, so I need to get the main release fixed and working without a patch). The next build will be 0.9.3 and 0.9.4 save game compatible, but still you might want to wait a bit until It's released so that you don't end up overwriting some of the changes in your mod mod. I'll have out 0.9.4b sometime later today.

Merri

Jul 14, 2009, 04:25 AM

Once it is out I'll update the torrent as well, I drop the 0.9.3 as there is no good reason for keeping it (torrent being mainly useful for those with lower speed connections who may have trouble getting valid downloads when using other means).

Phungus, when you update, remember to check you have all the Finnish tags in place as 0.9.5 light seems to miss quite a few of them, making some parts of the game unusable (for example, if I try use some extended BUG information screens it can render the whole window empty and I can't even access the regular Civ4 stuff anymore!) - related to that I had a far worse weekend than I hoped for, rather sleepy and fuzzy, so I couldn't get any coding work done. The XML text merger tool would effectively prevent these issues.

Berenthor

Jul 14, 2009, 04:33 AM

That's good to know, thanks phungus. Luckily I set my stuff up for maximum mergability :) so I should be able to merge it in quite easily (I hope).

phungus420

Jul 14, 2009, 04:41 AM

Phungus, when you update, remember to check you have all the Finnish tags in place as 0.9.5 light seems to miss quite a few of them, making some parts of the game unusable (for example, if I try use some extended BUG information screens it can render the whole window empty and I can't even access the regular Civ4 stuff anymore!) - related to that I had a far worse weekend than I hoped for, rather sleepy and fuzzy, so I couldn't get any coding work done. The XML text merger tool would effectively prevent these issues.
As far as I know I haven't changed any of the text files from 0.9.3 :dunno:

Could you reupload the all the text XML so I can be sure, I'll just drop in whatever you have for the text if it's broken now.

Merri

Jul 14, 2009, 05:58 AM

I haven't checked the actual files, but you've at least changed leaders which may have broken things. Unfortunately I'm doing extra work hours today so I'm probably dead tired when I get home, and I didn't get enough sleep (I went to bed 6 PM, phone rang 8 PM, couldn't get sleep, stayed up for the next 6 hours...) - so I'm not doing any checking on my own anytime soon.

achilleszero

Jul 14, 2009, 11:19 AM

Berenthor: You know what, I forgot that the fixed Russian Supercarrier isnt in yet and wont be in 0.94. LoR does use that model but not the glossy one. But it doesnt matter, because both models are a little buggy/not made right. I will UL a fixed & gloss model of it for you in a few hours.

Regarding LH's: Alot of the Lh's have extra files in them like a tga and a dds version of same file, so I usaually delete the tga and key it to the dds (as dds takes up less space). Sometimes there are concept dds files that are useless. And with gloss/spec/envmask maps they dont need to be 1024x1024 so I size them down to 512. Also better compression is possible on textures that dont have alpha. I dont blame the LH makers. They just want their LH's fully uncompressed with biggest textures possible to look their best. So I have to check on a case by case basis to make sure I didnt effect the detail or look of thier model.

EDIT: Here is the low poly & gloss Russian SuperCarrier. Different nif name will be needed in your artdefines.
221020

Berenthor

Jul 14, 2009, 12:38 PM

achilleszero

Jul 14, 2009, 01:20 PM

thnx achilleszero, I'm now incorporating the new units into the mod. I'm also working on some new legends (looking in the database for something like the HMS Victory and the Adler von Lubeck to see what matches). I will upload the leaderheads hopefully later this evening.
By the way: the supercarrier file is empty. maybe something went wrong with zipping?

Also, do you know if the pocketbattleship (I want to use it for the cruiser) is downscaled enough? I uploaded it

Berenthor look at post #38 on page 2 for a picture. There already made a model for HMS Victory. It is the English Man O' War UU. You will need to find a different model for man owar and then use its file path for it for your legend. Also pretty sure in EdgeCrushers Hero modcomp there is a model for the Adler von Lubeck.

EDIT: Here is not empty Super Carrier:221026
EDIT: Here is lowpoly pocket battleship:221028 This is another one that was cut long ago. Will eventually readd it.

Berenthor

Jul 14, 2009, 02:38 PM

Thanks man, you really work fast :)

achilleszero

Jul 14, 2009, 02:46 PM

Thanks man, you really work fast :)

Dont tell phungus that or he'll expect more out of me!:lol:

90% of my fixes are rather easy, a few right click/left clicks on the mesh and its done. You just have to know what youre looking for sometimes. Other models though require major surgery.

Berenthor

Jul 14, 2009, 03:40 PM

It will be our little secret ;). It was a little big and I used an uploading site for it. I hope it works. I uploaded the leaderheads here: http://www.easy-share.com/1906753671/Leaderheads.zip
I was wondering if, when you have the time, you would mind looking at some more unit art for me. Like I said before I made the UCAV an advanced fighter and changed and added quite some art for it but I have a feeling some of it might be quite heavy. If you have the time, maybe after the leaderheads and stuff for you that is more important, you could take a look at it?

achilleszero

Jul 14, 2009, 04:46 PM

A)Berenthor, you have the new alexander in the zip file. Were you wnting the alternate hair/eye color version than the one in LoR?

B) Do you have buttons for all of these? I noticed a few of them didnt have them in their file.

C) Which Marcus are you using? I assume you are using the one with black hair and purple armor. Just wondering, because there is an alternate one in there based off Alex w/ white hair. I could throw that one out if it isnt getting used.

Berenthor

Jul 15, 2009, 02:12 AM

A) Oh I forgot to take that one out. I know it is in the next release, I just wanted it already in my own game so I added it. I forgot I had it in the leaderheads directory when I zipped it.

B) The buttons I have in a seperate directory so I forgot to include them, sorry. But I do have them.

C) I didn't know there was another version of Marcus. Do you have a picture of him or can you send me the files? I would like to take a look at it. This is the one from Ekmek with the black beard and purple armor.

phungus420

Jul 15, 2009, 02:34 AM

Actually the New Alex model wol't be in 0.9.4b, he's already in LoR light, so he's in the 0.9.5 release. 0.9.4b is a wierd release, it was unscheduled, the only reason it's coming out now is that I've noticed that the patch downloads don't match the main release download (about half as many), and the 0.9.3 release has a critical bug in it, so I figured I have to update so that the main release is stable. Anyway I'm uploading 0.9.4b now, so it should be available in about an hour.

Berenthor

Jul 15, 2009, 03:00 AM

Ah okay I didn't know that. Than I'll release it in the add-on for now and remove it later when you go to 0.9.5. Thanks for the heads-up.

Merri

Jul 15, 2009, 07:34 AM

Since you're working on the Arda MOD as well, have you considered adding some human Tolkien civs & leaders? Just thinking how cool it would be to take over the world with Aragorn of the Gondorian Kingdom... :)

Berenthor

Jul 15, 2009, 08:55 AM

Hahaha, no I really like to keep this mod realistic :). Also for the Arda mod, it is going quite slow due to absence of people and being busy. That is a very big project and this is just a small side-project that I can handle :).

Merri

Jul 15, 2009, 11:30 AM

What? Realistic? Uh... Ah... oh yeah... I guess the problem here is that I account the bible far less realistic than the LotR, and yet they have religions in the game... Had Tolkien written his book 1000 - 1500 years earlier and we'd all believe in a much more realistic history! ;D

Roland Johansen

Jul 15, 2009, 12:06 PM

achilleszero

Jul 15, 2009, 01:32 PM

Berenthor, here are your better Leaderheads. Now they are a bit under 100MB instead of 170. Its best if you also upload the LH buttons so I can fix them. The ones I did see were all different sizes, 61x61 or 64x65. Dont know if they will crash the game, since they only ever appear in civlopedia but its safer if they were all made to be 64x64.

Better LH's

I included a copy of the Alexander that is used in LoRLite and will be in the next LoR (gold armor, brown hair, two different eyes). If you want a different configuration of colors of your own, let me know and I will set it up. Its kind of silly how they set him up, naming each dds its own description. To where you have to alter the nif's texture properties to change coloors.

Heres a pic of the Alternate Marcus, he is actually in your Marcus folder. I removed him to save space, but you still have him in your original. Everything named alexander in the Marcus folder belongs to it, if you ever want to use it.
221109

Berenthor

Jul 15, 2009, 04:32 PM

Thnx, I'll incorporate them tomorrow. Here are the buttons also. I'm not yet sure if I'll update to this version or wait for the full release of 0.9.5. I think I'll just update now to the new 0.9.4 so at least I can post a first version and then I can release for 0.9.5 a version with all the leaderheads that I want and a bigger selection of legends (I only have Santa Maria ready now).

achilleszero

Jul 15, 2009, 05:05 PM

Thnx, I'll incorporate them tomorrow. Here are the buttons also.

Umm, where are the buttons?:crazyeye:

Berenthor

Jul 16, 2009, 01:23 AM

Sorry my internet crashed during uploading. Here they are.

achilleszero

Jul 16, 2009, 02:38 PM

Berenthor here are your buttons back. Fixed a couple of them and made a few of them clearer looking. I put the same Alexander button that will be used in LoR, in the folder if you want to use it. I see you have the old button of my very 1st spartan in there that edgecrusher made. Do you not like the current button?

221194

@Ninja2: here is the motorized infantry button: 221293

Ninja2

Jul 16, 2009, 02:55 PM

Thanks AZ, so much hassle for so little... :D

Berenthor

Jul 17, 2009, 05:51 AM

achilleszero

Jul 19, 2009, 10:52 PM

Berenthor: I fixed this colonization ManOWar for someone in the Unit Request thread so I reskinned it with my Hms Victory skin. It looks a dozen times better than my first one. Also the old one warped funny in some of its animation.

221593

Berenthor

Jul 20, 2009, 06:17 AM

achilleszero

Jul 20, 2009, 09:53 AM

Thanks. I have had little chance to work the last couple of days so hopefully I get some legends added this week. I still have to add a couple of leaders also. Is this unit also the one you use for English ship of the line? Because then I have to find a new one for that.

Yeah it will be the model for the English UU. The old one pretty much looks exactly like it, the new one just looks alot better/cleaner. Original reason for me painting it like that was that there were no ship of the line in DB (atleast ones I could find) that were distinct enough for a UU. Also only color pics or photos of english man o war I can find are of the HMS Victory. If you could find a different color scheme, or alternate picture of one I can recolor it for you.

Merri

Jul 20, 2009, 12:13 PM

achilleszero: would these (http://images.google.com/images?hl=fi&um=1&sa=1&q=british+%22man+o+war%22&btnG=Kuvahaku&aq=f&oq=) match your need for non HMS Victory pics?

achilleszero

Jul 20, 2009, 01:01 PM

achilleszero: would these (http://images.google.com/images?hl=fi&um=1&sa=1&q=british+%22man+o+war%22&btnG=Kuvahaku&aq=f&oq=) match your need for non HMS Victory pics?

Why yes they would, thank you sirs. It would seem I need bigger flags, theyre practically the size of sails!

Berenthor

Jul 20, 2009, 01:15 PM

achilleszero

Jul 20, 2009, 01:21 PM

This looks really good. I just added the HMS Victory as a legend and replaced the Man-O-War with a normal ship of the line with English sailes. Could you maybe use the Colonization Man-O-War and add some English sailes to it? Although on all the pictures, the sails are all white. Also I would use the British ensign instead of the union jack (and for the HMS Victory even the English Georgian cross according to the pictures).

Yep just noticed I have the wrong flag. Ill do some recoloring right now. And Ill probably change the model for the English UU to what I come up with. Having a bunch of Hms Vicotries running around just doesnt seem right. By the way which one is the Geergian cross??

Berenthor

Jul 20, 2009, 02:11 PM

Berenthor

Jul 20, 2009, 03:14 PM

Sorry to keep bugging you but could you maybe also look at the following two leaderheads and unit. It is Logan (for the Iroquois) and Franco. The buttons are already okay I think. Also it has a new legend: the Adler von Lubeck. Thanks a bunch.

achilleszero

Jul 20, 2009, 03:37 PM

Oops maybe I have the name wrong. I meant this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_George%27s_Cross. May I ask what you will do with the sails for the Man-O-War? Do you recommend keeping the HMS Victory as is and changing the Man-O-War?.

On another note, could you fix the red cloud leaderhead and button attached if you have the time? (the button needs a new border I think). Thanks in advance.

Btw: which leaderheads from Colonization do you think could be used for the Iroquois and who could it represent? I can't find a good one for them.

Im doing a reskin on the man o war right now. Im going to fix the flags on the Victory, to whichever ones flew on it when Admiral Nelson was in charge. Ill have both of those ready later today.

I dont have colonization but I have seen the pictures of the LHs. I think there is supposed to be a Iroquois leader and I think its Logan. Which seems to be a popular choice on the forums. If I had to pick a leader though, it would definately be Joseph Brant (Thayendanegea). But as you can see from the portrait in the link, all the current native LHs are way too tribal and half naked for Brant. But he make a cool looking LH if any one were to make him.

EDIT: Didnt see you posted again, my monitor flaked out for an hour while I was replying. Will look at those LHs for you.

Berenthor

Jul 20, 2009, 04:54 PM

Thnx, I agree with you on brant, but there is indeed nothing to find that matches for LH. Therefore I went with Logan who apparantly also is an iroquois leader. We can always add more later if necessary. I'm currently still looking at leaderheads that fit a Zulu and Vietnam leader. I have some ideas for the Zulu leader (the LH from cfkane I think). I'm just looking who he could represent.

achilleszero

Jul 21, 2009, 12:39 PM

I have some ideas for the Zulu leader (the LH from cfkane I think). I'm just looking who he could represent.

The only zulu leader that I can find more than 2 sentences on is Cetshwayo kaMpande. I know that Capo was planning on making a LH for him and I believe he was foing to use ckfane's LH for it. Vietnam is a tough one too. Youll probably wind up having to use another oriental LH in place. The only thing I can think of is one of the Nguyen dynasty. Practically half the country is named Nguyen, and half the vietnamese I know have that surname after them.

I finished that last pack of yours. That Adler galleon is one of the most complicated models Ive ever seen. Its still at almost 4000 poly. Theres nothing else I can do for it. But being its a legend I guess it wont be too bad, since there will only ever be 1 of them. Where did you find it? Is it a EE2 converted model?

I did remake the button for Red Cloud so it would match the other buttons.
221720

Berenthor

Jul 21, 2009, 02:31 PM

The only zulu leader that I can find more than 2 sentences on is Cetshwayo kaMpande. I know that Capo was planning on making a LH for him and I believe he was foing to use ckfane's LH for it. Vietnam is a tough one too. Youll probably wind up having to use another oriental LH in place. The only thing I can think of is one of the Nguyen dynasty. Practically half the country is named Nguyen, and half the vietnamese I know have that surname after them.

I finished that last pack of yours. That Adler galleon is one of the most complicated models Ive ever seen. Its still at almost 4000 poly. Theres nothing else I can do for it. But being its a legend I guess it wont be too bad, since there will only ever be 1 of them. Where did you find it? Is it a EE2 converted model?

I did remake the button for Red Cloud so it would match the other buttons.
221720

Thanks AchillesZero. Did the three leaderheads need a lot of work? Probably not right since they were original Colonization ones :). I think I'm indeed going for that Zulu leader and put the LH of cfKane there for now. For the Vietnamese, I like the Monkut leaderhead from I think capo, so maybe that one I will use for someone.

The Adler came from the Heroes mod comp. I'm just not sure about the flag yet, have to look into that. 4000 is still better than it was I think. The Santa Maria is a converted EE2 model.

Btw: the attachment doesn't work. It says it is not a valid link.

achilleszero

Jul 21, 2009, 02:40 PM

Thanks AchillesZero. Did the three leaderheads need a lot of work? Probably not right since they were original Colonization ones :). I think I'm indeed going for that Zulu leader and put the LH of cfKane there for now. For the Vietnamese, I like the Monkut leaderhead from I think capo, so maybe that one I will use for someone.

The Adler came from the Heroes mod comp. I'm just not sure about the flag yet, have to look into that. 4000 is still better than it was I think. The Santa Maria is a converted EE2 model.

Btw: the attachment doesn't work. It says it is not a valid link.

Ok it seemed to not actually upload when I did it, try this one:

221746

Also, what do you think of this color scheme for the regular man o war UU? Different hull colors, plain sails, and different flag on the main sail.
221747

The leaers were pretty good just a few trims heere and there.

EDIT: If you own colonization could you UL the Man O War folder with all the animation files. I need to check them and see if Im missing something. For some reason the cannons arent retracting in idle or strike animation. I couldve sworn that the last HMS Victory I ULed for you worked properly but now the cannons dont seem to move.

Berenthor

Jul 22, 2009, 01:36 AM

achilleszero

Jul 22, 2009, 02:28 AM

That looks really good, it is sufficiently different from the ship of the line, but still leaves the HMS Victory to stand out :goodjob:. I uploaded the man-o-war files also. It should contain everything (I think).

Ok so it seems I am not missing anyfiles. So if you ever have time, could you load up a game of colonization and check how the cannons behave on the man o war? They dont seem to move when firing and dont retract when the unit is in idle. The cannons work right when I view the animation in nifskope, and I havent altered anything that could possibly break them.:confused:

Berenthor

Jul 22, 2009, 11:12 AM

I just ran a colonization game and the man-o-war works normal. It has no cannons in normal mode and then when attacking they come out and then after the attack retreat again. They also actually fire normally (with smoke and stuff) when attacking . :confused: wierd that it doesn't work there.

achilleszero

Jul 22, 2009, 11:17 AM

Huh, that is wierd. Especiall since the smoke and explosions work on mine whick should indicate the animation is working, its just the stupid cannon. Let me try to remake it with your files, should be quicker this time around. Maybe that I guy I got the first one from broke something before he posted it?.?.?

EDIT: Ok I think I see the problem. It migh be the animation files themselves. Either colonization doesnt need one of the control blocks that vanilla civ needs, or firaxis just plain forgot it. Either way im going to see if theCoyote can take a look at it as well.

Wiz4War

Jul 24, 2009, 12:57 PM

Also, what do you think of this color scheme for the regular man o war UU? Different hull colors, plain sails, and different flag on the main sail.
221747

I must say, this is rather perfect. Since you were talking about Nelson and wanting the ships to be much like the would appear during his life time .. a piece of historical fact: The current color scheme for this Man o' War is what's known as the "Nelson Checker". http://www.tallshiprose.org/photos/main.php?g2_itemId=660 seen here. The paint here appears to be yellow, but that is just due to sun and weather, it is white when new.

In Nelson's time, the flag of command (known as the Cross of St. George) would be placed (depending on rank) at the mast head. Nelson himself before his death would have had the Cross of St. George at the fore ..flying from the forward mast.

Every ship displayed the White Ensign (white flag, Cross of St. George and the Union Jack in the upper left canton) at the stern. During battle is was not uncommon to add a second White Ensign at the main mast, in case one of the two should be shot away.
I quote from the 1951 Admiralty Manual of Seamanship;

All H.M. ships in commission wear the White Ensign. It is worn at the ensign staff [at the rear of the ship] when in harbour; it is also worn at the ensign staff at sea whenever possible, but in bad weather, or when cleared for action, or during war, it is worn at the peak of the gaff on the mainmast, or on a suitable staff mounted in the after part of the ship.

This of course only applies to the English ships. Other nations tended to do other things. But setting up a different set of graphics for each nation would be a pain in the arse, not mention taxing on resources.

You might have guessed, I'm a huge history buff ...study it, read it, and learn about it whenever I can. So if you need anything by way of historical accuracy, let me know :)

Wiz4War

Jul 24, 2009, 01:04 PM

Why yes they would, thank you sirs. It would seem I need bigger flags, theyre practically the size of sails!

In fact, what you are seeing in most pictures of Men 'o War is the Battle Ensign ...

Flying one or more additional flags in battle is a practice common to most navies. A single ensign might be shot away in the action, giving the impression that the ship had lowered its colours as a sign of surrender. In the Royal Navy the Battle Ensign is usually an extra large White Ensign flown from the mainmast...

And if you want to get really picky... the White Ensign was flown from the mainmast on a gaff (rope), and and the very peak of the main mast warhips also flew a pennant flag. That's the long thin whip like flag you often see, denoting active commission in the navy. Merchant ships never wore a pennant, and instead of the White Ensign, they would fly the normal Union Jack.

achilleszero

Jul 24, 2009, 01:36 PM

Berenthor

Jul 24, 2009, 01:49 PM

I thought it was something like that. I continoud in the mean time with adding the last leaders I wanted to add so that is now done. I don't have much time this weekend to work anyway so take your time.

I'm planning to just release a version for the 0.9.4 build to already work out some kinks, balances and problems before phungus releases 0.9.5.

On the note of the ethnic ships: I really liked the packs made by justAtourist. I think at least the German and English ones are in LoR, the rest is not. Maybe I'll add these other ethnic diversity ships (Dutch, Russian, French, Spanish, Portugese, Viking, etc) as well for L&L (especially if people would like it) :).

achilleszero

Jul 24, 2009, 02:02 PM

On the note of the ethnic ships: I really liked the packs made by justAtourist. I think at least the German and English ones are in LoR, the rest is not. Maybe I'll add these other ethnic diversity ships (Dutch, Russian, French, Spanish, Portugese, Viking, etc) as well for L&L (especially if people would like it) :).

You should look through the FPK before you add any ships. Most of JustATourist stuff is in there already. Not sure how much but I know alot of it is in there already. I use his stuff on the few ships I have made for LoR, like the viking longboat and the sails on the Victory.

Wiz4War

Jul 24, 2009, 03:21 PM

Well what flag would be hanging in the back in Nelson's day? I want different flags setups for the HMS victory and regular ManOWar UU. Right now both have the red ensign in back, but different flags at the top. I have the union jack on the top mainsail and a long st geoge pennant on the foresail, on the victory. I want the Victory to look fancier since Berenthor is using it as a legend (which may mean the historically inaccurate sail logo might stay, just to spruce it up). But I also may add the little flag that goes up front.

As far as making the different ethinc ship look different, its not that hard copy and pasting the correct symbol someswhere on the ship. Its just a matter of me doing the research. Thats why my flags on these english ships might be off. I havent done a completely thourough research, and the littel Ive done, I get what seems conflicting information.

EDIT: And in case your wondering Berenthor, I havent UL'ed the 2 ships yet mainly because I dont want to send out a unit that I know there is something wrong with. Still waiting on Coyote's prognosis. It wont break the game or anything as it is now, but I would like it to animate 100% properly. But if I dont figure it out by tomorrow or so, I will send them both to you anyways.

Yeah, I know... unfortunately from one decade to the next, the "standards" would change depending on who's in charge at the Admiralty.

The Victory would have the large White Ensign [ http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=white%20ensign&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi ] hanging off the back, a normal size version of the same White Ensign on the top of main mast. The Cross of St. George, of normal size [ http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&safe=off&um=1&sa=1&q=cross+of+st+george&btnG=Search+images&aq=2&oq=cross+of+ ] on the top of the fore mast. And for "Lengends" sake, the Union Jack, of normal size [ http://www.partnershipsuk.org.uk/uploads/images/big_union_jack%5B1%5D.jpg ] on top of the after mast and on the bowsprit. You might also consider adding gold to the stern of the Victory, to set her apart --> http://www.history-tourist.com/sites/england/counties/hampshire/directory/hsites/images/porsts2.jpg.

http://www.westbourne-models.com/images/Model-Boats/Corel-static-model-boats/SM23.JPG --> This! With the Ensign at the main rather than the union jack.

http://www.merchantroyalshipwreck.com/HMS%20Victory4.JPG --> Here you see the Victory, almost as I discribed above. Ensign at the back, Cross St George at the fore ...in this picture the main mast has some signal flags on it, so just ignore those and put the Ensign instead.

Regular Men 'o War would have the White Ensign hanging off the back, and the pennant [ http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/g/gb~tcp.gif ] on top of the main mast.

Other nations could be set up in this way as well, Nations Flag (or Ensign if available) hanging off the back, and a pennant (with that nations colors) on top of the main mast.
http://www.wrecksite.eu/img/wrecks/santisima_trinidad.jpg --> Here you see a different nation, Nations Flag at the back and the pennant at the Main. Also notice, the paint on the sides is all one color, as is the case with most other nations ;)

achilleszero

Jul 24, 2009, 04:01 PM

Wiz4War

Jul 24, 2009, 05:22 PM

Ok cool, will change the flags up then. And add the flags on the bow.

The hull paint jobs though, I think are already as close to reality as i can get. I already have gold in the back, its just not as detailed, and I hate having to put detail from scratch. Especially on a 256x256 texture, theres only so much I can put on it.

Oh I understand about that. I just wanted to give you as much information as I could so you would have many different options to pick from :cool:

Berenthor

Jul 27, 2009, 12:25 PM

achilleszero

Jul 27, 2009, 02:24 PM

I didn't know about the ships that they were in. I still have to update to 0.9.4b so haven't checked that version out. Maybe I'll just add the xml when I can find the units themselves in the fpk.
How is it going with the man-o-war and the HMS Victory? On another note, I have three more leaderheads, if you could check them out if you have the time? I also have some units (fighters) that I would like to include but I have the feeling they are quite intensive polygon wise. If you have the time, could you look at them as well? The units that have the same name/folder (F15, mig21, mig29) are actually the same unit, the nif files etc are just copied over to accommodate the new skins so in total it is only a few units.

Thanks for all the work you are doing here for me.

Coyote just got done fixing the ManOWar yesterday. But it would seem there is still a slight problem. Since colonization only uses FX models the ship will pretty much have to be stuck being just a FX model. For some reason nifskop isnt converting skin partitions from colonization right. That normally wouldnt be a problem, except that the FX shaders makes ships look really dark and dull. Whick totally defeats my awesome paint job. Only other thing would be to make take away the shaders so the colors look bright but loose damage states. Ill decide by later today what will best and post those 2.

Also just got done adding some units that I think you will like. Added 5 more industrial Dutch units and a couple Dutch ships. Also 2 spanish and 2 French ships. Have several more, like portugal and norse (all from JustATourist), but they might not make it in the next release.

So I have a question for you seeing how you are from the netherlands (or at least it says so under your name). When I added the new dutch cavalry, it replaced a boer cammando cavalry. So would a Boer Cammando make a good 2nd UU for the Dutch. Been trying to come up with a 2nd UU for every civ for my own add-on, and Dutch is one of the 15 I havent been able to come up with one.

Roland Johansen

Jul 27, 2009, 03:14 PM

So would a Boer Cammando make a good 2nd UU for the Dutch. Been trying to come up with a 2nd UU for every civ for my own add-on, and Dutch is one of the 15 I havent been able to come up with one.

The boeren were a colonial force or maybe more a force of people who were decendents of colonists and really had little to do with the Netherlands themselves except that the people involved were descendants of Dutch people. The Dutch are mainly known for their naval strength during the 17-th century. So an improved galleon (capacity, speed) and an improved frigate or pirate would fit best. The Dutch traded a lot during that age and beat the English (and others) at seas a few times.

achilleszero

Jul 27, 2009, 03:40 PM

The boeren were a colonial force or maybe more a force of people who were decendents of colonists and really had little to do with the Netherlands themselves except that the people involved were descendants of Dutch people. The Dutch are mainly known for their naval strength during the 17-th century. So an improved galleon (capacity, speed) and an improved frigate or pirate would fit best. The Dutch traded a lot during that age and beat the English (and others) at seas a few times.

Ok will go for the frigate or privateer. What could be its name? It can be in dutch, in fact I would prefer it to be unless it is insanely hard to pronounce by a non-Dutch speaker.

I do like expounding up on a civs real life strengths (like if I were to make a 2nd Mongol UU it would also be mounted) but at the same time I dont want to pigeon hole a civ with only naval UU's, since in Civ navies are so much weaker and unimportant than in real life. If I wanted a 3rd UU that was a land unit for the dutch, what would be yuor recommendation?

Roland Johansen

Jul 27, 2009, 07:19 PM

Ok will go for the frigate or privateer. What could be its name? It can be in dutch, in fact I would prefer it to be unless it is insanely hard to pronounce by a non-Dutch speaker.

I do like expounding up on a civs real life strengths (like if I were to make a 2nd Mongol UU it would also be mounted) but at the same time I dont want to pigeon hole a civ with only naval UU's, since in Civ navies are so much weaker and unimportant than in real life. If I wanted a 3rd UU that was a land unit for the dutch, what would be yuor recommendation?

I did some reading and while the Dutch were powerful at sea for a while, I can't find unique military ship models to represent that. The dutch used various ship models for their trade among which the fluyt and the spiegelretourschip, merchant ships with cannons used to defend themselves and to 'seize opportunities', meaning capturing trading ports of other European nations. However, these are well represented by the East Indiaman in the game. In the sea wars with England and other nations, the Dutch used these trading ships as war ships. During the later sea wars with England when ever heavier ships (frigates) were being constructed, the Dutch also embarked on that path. And so they created various ships of the line that were heavier than those of England, but there was nothing unique about them and shortly after, again heavier ships of the line were constructed. And then England took over as leading nation at sea.

I can think of one other military unit that could represent the Netherlands, but it is a bit far fetched. During WW1, the Germans used various different fighter airplanes created by a Dutch airplane manufacturer called Fokker. These fighter airplanes were very innovative (first to design a machine gun that could fire bullets through the propeller of an airplane by synchronising the machine gun with the propeller). These planes caused the so called Fokker scourge during WW1 where the Germans controlled the air space during various periods of the war (even though the allies had a larger production capacity). At the end of the war, the latest Fokker model was so effective that the peace treaty stipulated that every airplane of that model was to be surrendered to the allies (which is apparently unique for a peace treaty).
The most well known fighter ace which is used as a legend in LoR, the Red Baron, used a Fokker plane for most of his victories.

The reason that it is far fetched is because the Dutch didn't participate in WW1, they were neutral. Fokker was just aircraft manufacturer that saw the opportunity to start an aircraft company in Germany and produced German fighter aircraft during WW1. The Fokker aircraft company survived WW1 and thrived in the following years (as a Dutch company) but has recently gone bankrupt (1996).

So to be fair, it's a better unique unit for Germany (which already has many other units that could be used as unique units).

phungus420

Jul 27, 2009, 07:37 PM

The dutch are best well known for their trade supremecy. If I were you I'd give the dutch a second UB, instead of a second UU, where UB would grant an etra trade route.

Roland Johansen

Jul 28, 2009, 06:33 AM

Interesting idea and it fits well.

Berenthor

Jul 28, 2009, 08:37 AM

I like the ideas. A name of a ship you could use is the Fluyt (frigate replacement maybe) but like was stated before, I would not add another ship. It is kinda limiting. Maybe the Geuzen (pikeman with some kind of extra defense) would be a good second UU. I also really like a second UB instead of a second UU.

Roland Johansen

Jul 28, 2009, 09:58 AM

IMaybe the Geuzen (pikeman with some kind of extra defense) would be a good second UU. I also really like a second UB instead of a second UU.

Surely, the Geuzen should be amphibious! I actually have no idea what kind of weapons they used. Wouldn't they have been musketmen given the time period (1570). I do know that firearms were in heavy use during the war against the Spanish.

So maybe Geuzen should be amphibious musketmen. Since they were a guerilla force, you could give them the guerilla promotion, but that promotion is actually badly named and has little to do with how a guerilla force would fight. The Netherlands is also a very flat land so the promotion would be a bad one (from a historic perspective). But a first strike to represent their surprise attacks would work. Or a cost reduction to make them a cheap army.

BTW, for the ones who don't know about 'the Geuzen' which is probably every non-Dutch person: They were a group of people that lost their possessions due to religious suppression by the Spanish in the Netherlands (Catholicism versus Protestantism). Mixed in were plain thieves and criminals and jobless persons. They were instrumental in the start of the rebellion in the Netherlands against Spanish occupation and captured a few cities and won a few battles during the starting period of the freedom war. They did this mainly from their ships in the north sea (they're mainly known as watergeuzen (water Geuzen)). They also fought in some sea battles.
The name was derived from the the French derogative term 'Les Gueux' which means as much as 'beggars', but they used the name as a honorary title to signify their rebellion against the Spanish occupation.

Berenthor

Jul 28, 2009, 12:29 PM

achilleszero

Jul 28, 2009, 12:39 PM

Berenthor, didnt you do a non-swastika skin of the bismark? I am looking for at least 2 more battleships (already added the french, italian, russian). The germans are stuck with default battleship, although did they have anything besides the bismark or tirpitz in WW2?

Also let me know if anyone finishes that missile cruiser from EE2. I am trying to make sure every unit has atleast 2-3 ethnic variants. Just added a new cog and new UCAV, could use another. Any of the 3 ironclads, galleas, stealth destoyer, and stealth bomber would be nice. Although I dont think there is such a thing as another stealth bomber besides the american one. In the game the russians have one but its not a stealth in real life.

Gresharas

Jul 28, 2009, 01:37 PM

My two cents on:

Leaders and Civilizations

Macedonia

Alexander: PHIL / IMP? AGG / IMP? AGG / PHI? A man of big dreams and quite big empire...

Philip II: AGG / ORG, hands down. He was one of the most skilled politician and conquerors of his time - he literally paved the road to immortality for his son.

UU: Hetairoi, Horseman with bonus against melee units and/or a good withdraw. They were "the hammer" that was supposed to hit the enemy once it was pinned down against the phalanx, or "the anvil". It is supposed that they used long spears, a horseback version of the "sarissa", usually to be thrown, not held. In fact their main strenght was probably the fact that their enemy were 1) not used to horseback riders and 2) not well trained and 3) unprotected agains. In the end, they were more a "morale breaker" than a true shocktroop [for see one you must wait until staffs].
They were a great improvement, for example, above chariot warfare since the chariot tactics was a frontal one, quite ineffective against well-trained troops. Think of the Hetairoi as "very scary horseback peltasts".

UB: That's a pain. I feel that a better barracks or stable is the wisest, to simulate the "professional" macedonian army. +4 exp barrack instead of +3 exp? Or a stable that gives a free Flanking? The last might be intresting.

-------
Sweden

Gustav II Adolf: AGG / IMP or better [see above] AGG / TAC

UU: Hard to select a true unique unit, but if I remind correctly he was the one that invented the "diagonal assault", one of the more important [and short-lived] innovations of the modern era. Basically, advance in broken [diagonal] lines to give an hell of a job to enemy cannons. A possible choice is a Musketeer of Pikeman UU immune to collateral damage, but Gustav strategy was VERY aggressive and this will be a defensive unit more than else.

UB: As long as I know Sweden [and northerners at large] were renowned for their high-temperature forges and steelworks. Thus a minor boost to hammers for the forge, or one that gives a free great engeneer? Might be overpowered.

Gran Columbia or Viceroyalty of South America or Peru (Simon Bolivar & Jose de San Martin)

I don't know a thing about south american history, so better to do no harm than to make big mistakes.

New Traits

Mercantile MER

+1 commercial route.

No more, no less. Improving the food will mean tampering with game concepts. Routes were made for money, let's stay it on money.

It's a good one althrought. It will give you less money than financial on average, but one could use it for something else than the basic CE. It gives the best on sea maps, where one did not have much land for cotteges anyway.

Double production speed of Custom House, Harbor [?], Airport [?]

Strategic ---> Tactician TAC

It's a mix of previous traits, which feels bad, but the free Flanking is very intresting. Flank I is probably weak, Flank II might be overpowered. Hard to say.

One solution is to give a free "flanking" promotion to melee and gunpowder units. It feels weird ince they will not normally have it, but it might open new intresting options for those leaders.

Seafaring

+1 Movement for naval units [alwais].

25% Faster production of all ships.

Will be very usefull on arcipelago and the like. the extra movement is nice in the beginning, but not unbanced. you could escape enemy ships but not "hit and run" unless you build navigation I+ ships... which mean you would have weaker ships than most combat or drill-oriented ones. It does not superseeded "flanking" since it is a requisite for navigation himself.

The bonus production is VERY nice but since you cannot win without soldiers, you will end with a larger navy OR some extra units [in the time you managed to get from the shipbuild saved one]. Given the limit of seaborne assault we see in most games I think it iwill not be unbalanced.

Nationalistic

It's me, or this is just "nationalism revisited"? I don't like it, it feels it add nothing new or special to the game. It's dangerous since you could become IMMUNE to war weariness. It will become THE warmonger trait.

Roland Johansen

Jul 28, 2009, 01:50 PM

Maybe your actually right about the musketman :blush:. Definatly amphibious and maybe something else also. Most of the Netherlands is flat ;) but I agree with you that a hill promotion is not appropriate. I think it is better than another ship (although the Fluyt would be cool too :))

I'm from the province of Limburg and according to most Dutch people, those small bumps in the earth that we have there are hills. But if you've been to the Alps, then you know better. It actually shows how flat the Netherlands actually are that we call those small bumps hills. ;)

By the way, I think the present East Indiaman is representing the Fluyt. Even the ingame shape fits the shape of the Fluyt (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluitschip). The Fluyt wasn't actually a ship designed for war, it was a commercial ship with guns added to it and they were used for the trip to the East.

phungus420

Jul 28, 2009, 01:56 PM

I'm from the province of Limburg and according to most Dutch people, those small bumps in the earth that we have there are hills. But if you've been to the Alps, then you know better. It actually shows how flat the Netherlands actually are that we call those small bumps hills. ;)

The reminds me of when I was on a road trip through Vermont with some people from Jamaica. They were pointing out the window saying "Look at the Mountains". For about a minute I was looking in all directions, and then I said "I can't see any mountains". Then I realized they were talking about the hills... To me a mountain is something that rises thousands of feet into the air, and is usually capped with snow ( outside the tropics). But to many people a regular old hill is a mountain...

Berenthor

Jul 28, 2009, 02:05 PM

Hahaha yes that is true, I'm from Limburg myself also although most Dutch people (especially from the North) always have trouble on a bike or something in Limburg, so fun to see :).
You're right about the Fluyt, it is indeed already there.

@Gresharas: I already added all the traits for the new leaders so that is done. I wanted to use only a new combination for the new leaders so they have at least one of the new traits and than another one (e.g. Strategic/Organizational for Philip II I believe). For the traits, I think most should first be tested. The traits come from Tsentom who made them for his mod. I already tried to balance some stuff but a lot will have to be figured out during testing. I'll probably first release it without the new civs in and do that in the second release. The seafaring trait is going to have some non-sea benefit (something with traderouts) to make the leader worthwile on maps without water or a landlocked start.

@achilleszero: the Bismarck in my signature has a non-swastika version. I only don't know how good it is compared to the one that we have now (from Wolfshanze and some other I believe).

achilleszero

Jul 28, 2009, 02:38 PM

The reminds me of when I was on a road trip through Vermont with some people from Jamaica. They were pointing out the window saying "Look at the Mountains". For about a minute I was looking in all directions, and then I said "I can't see any mountains". Then I realized they were talking about the hills... To me a mountain is something that rises thousands of feet into the air, and is usually capped with snow ( outside the tropics). But to many people a regular old hill is a mountain...

Thats pretty much what happened to me when I lived in NH for 2 years. There are no hills of anysort were Im from, infact the highest point for a hundred miles around is a land fill!

@achilleszero: the Bismarck in my signature has a non-swastika version. I only don't know how good it is compared to the one that we have now (from Wolfshanze and some other I believe).

I dont see those anywhere in the DB. SInce the bismark with swastika is being used as a legend, I just want a non default battleship for germany.

phungus420

Jul 28, 2009, 03:00 PM

At least for LoR itself, don't use the same model, just minus the Swastika. It's too close. There are some pocket battleship models you could probably use instead.

achilleszero

Jul 28, 2009, 03:53 PM

At least for LoR itself, don't use the same model, just minus the Swastika. It's too close. There are some pocket battleship models you could probably use instead.

Alright. I think I just fixed a german pocket battleship for berenthor, so Ill use that one. Did the germans not have any full Battleships in WW2 besides the bismark and her sister?

Berenthor

Jul 28, 2009, 04:19 PM

I myself used the pocket battleship as a german heavy cruiser to get some variety in that class also (there was only an english and standard/american one). I would have to check if they had other battleships I don't know. I checked the link in my signature, it still works. It has a zip file and also a link to the database at that first post. It contains a folder called NoMarkings in which is a dds file. You just copy that over the original Bismarck and it gives you the no-markings version.
Link is: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=281426

achilleszero

Jul 28, 2009, 04:40 PM

If theres only 2 cruiser variants then I defintately want 1-3 more. So let me know if you find any, in case I wind having to use the graff spee as a battleship. Also any other classes that are lacking I would like to know. Some are probably lost causes like the ironclad group.

Berenthor

Jul 29, 2009, 03:11 AM

I'll look through the xml when I have the time to see if there are more things with only 1 or 2 models. I think all ironclad ships (cruisers, battleships, etc) have only one model but there are really no other models.

I will also post a picture of my Bismarck without the swastika so you can judge it to see if you like it and is sufficiently different.

achilleszero

Jul 29, 2009, 11:20 AM

I will also post a picture of my Bismarck without the swastika so you can judge it to see if you like it and is sufficiently different.

Thats ok. Got your other skin to work and it just looks too much alike to use. Will have to find another option.

Lean

Jul 29, 2009, 04:56 PM

I have a small suggestion: For the Byzantines, perhaps replacing the possibility of Basil with The Capo's Heraclius? In my own opinion, the Basil LH isn't really that good looking, where as Heraclius looks good. Just my two cents.

Edit: And maybe also replacing the default Alexander with Capo's Alexander?

achilleszero

Jul 29, 2009, 07:00 PM

Edit: And maybe also replacing the default Alexander with Capo's Alexander?

The new Alexander is already in LoR Lite and will be in the next full LoR release. It got leaft out of 0.94 because an older art folder was used. I had the new Alex in the XML about 30minutes afte theCapo UL'ed it;).

Benenthor: For the love of god I think Im finished with the man o wars. Had to do some crazy stuff with it to actually make it do what I wanted. Didnt like the way the shader made it look (way to dark and dull). But for some reason MechNonShader (oddly enough also a shader despite its name), didnt work. So I had to wind up deleting the cannons on one copy, the deleting everything but the cannons on another copy. So now the cannons work, it looks bright and colorful, and has damage textures. May I never see another ship again!:p

222697

So each has its own button. The default models have plain sails. If you like them to have the fancy sails by JustATourist, there is a folder named FancySails. There is a texture for each model, just drop it in the folder and you will have them. Also the normal Man O War is in the same folder path that all UU's will have now. You dont have to follow it, but it would be good for consistancy.

222698222699

Wiz4War: there are the finished products. Everything is about as close as I could get it according to your descriptions. Except the pennant is in the wrong place and the blue on the bottom of the pennant doesnt show up very well. What'ya think?

EDIT: Oh yeah,there is a small union jack on the bowsprit, you just cant see it from this side cuz of the sails.

Lean

Jul 29, 2009, 07:06 PM

Ah, I see. Thank you for informing me, now if only we could get Heraclius...:lol:

Berenthor

Jul 30, 2009, 02:23 AM

@Lean: I have Heraclius (under a different name: Themistocles) as a leader for Greece because I want to move Alexander and Philip II to the new Macedonia civ (not done yet).

@Achilleszero: Thanks a bunch, they really look good. I'm going to add them to the mod. I haven't had so much time yet to finish it, I have been promissing it for way to long so I hope to actually release it soon. If you have the time, could you maybe still look at the leaderheads and units I uploaded? :blush:

achilleszero

Jul 30, 2009, 03:32 AM

Leaderheads and units are done. They were easy compared to that stupid ship;).
222733
222734
The F-15's, tornado, and MiG 21&29 are under 2000 poly. Had to delete the exploding mesh of the F-15. There was something wrong with the skin (part of it is jutting out of the wing) It didnt display in 3dMax so I couldnt fix it. But practically none of the custom jet models out there, besides this one, have the actuall exploding part like the vanilla jet, so no big loss.

The Rafale is a problem its still at 5000 poly. Its one of theConquests models. Almost all his models are insanely detailed. This one would require a lot of open heart surgery to fix if I could fix it at all.

The MiG-1.44 is still at 2500 (allso by theConquest). Not too bad, but this one can definitely be fixed. I was actually going to add it months ago when I gathered all the strike fighter models, but just never got around to fixing it. Even though its just a prototype 5th gen fighter, its just too cool looking to leave out. Ill have it fixed and under 2000 poly in a day or so, but it should be fine to be used for now.

Berenthor

Jul 31, 2009, 04:11 AM

I just added all the units in, they look great. I was afraid the Rafale would be a problem. I think I'm going to keep it in for now because it really looks cool, but maybe it is just to heavy in the end, I'm not sure yet.
Thanks for the work.

Berenthor

Aug 26, 2009, 04:11 AM

achilleszero

Aug 26, 2009, 10:12 AM

Sorry for the long absence, I have a version running now that is done (with almost everything in it) but it is I think version 0.9.4b (I have to check it). I wanted to download the latest version to make sure, but it is not there anymore. Can I still find it somewhere so I can release it?

The latest version is 0.96b. Its down because of bug in the Viking artdefines and crazy disappearing cottages. It can still be found on Moddb.com. Just do a search for LoR there and you should find it.

To fix the vikings, place these 4 entries for viking units in the ArtDefines:

<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_TANK_SWEDISH_STRV_M41</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/StrvM41.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.5</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>0.9</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Tank_StrvM41/P38t.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/PanzerShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>1.0</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<TrailDefinition>
<Texture>Art/Shared/tanktread.dds</Texture>
<fWidth>0.7</fWidth>
<fLength>180.0</fLength>
<fTaper>0.0</fTaper>
<fFadeStartTime>0.2</fFadeStartTime>
<fFadeFalloff>0.35</fFadeFalloff>
</TrailDefinition>
<fBattleDistance>0.5</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.12</fRangedDeathTime>
<bActAsRanged>1</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIQUE_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop>LOOPSTEP_TANK</AudioRunTypeLoop>
<AudioRunTypeEnd>ENDSTEP_TANK</AudioRunTypeEnd>
</AudioRunSounds>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_TANK_FORT</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_TANK_FORT</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>
<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_FIGHTER_J22</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/J22.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.54</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Fighter/Fighter.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Fighter_J22/J22.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/FighterShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>
<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_LIGHT_BOMBER_SAABB17</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/SaabB17.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.545</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/LBomber_SaabB17/japkate.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/lbomber/TBF_Avenger.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/LBomber_SaabB17/japkate.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/FighterShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>
<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOMBER_SAAB18</Type>
<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Saab18.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.62</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/Viking/Bomber_Saab18/Saab18.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Bomber/Bomber.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Viking/Bomber_Saab18/Saab18.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/BomberShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.75</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<iDamageStates>4</iDamageStates>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fBankRate>0.35</fBankRate>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
<PatrolSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_PATROL</PatrolSound>
<SelectionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</SelectionSound>
<ActionSound>AS3D_UN_FIGHTER_COMMAND_PATROL</ActionSound>
</UnitArtInfo>
To fix the invisible cottages you will have to choose the BlueMarble option on install until I make a new PlotLSystem. Without BM your cottages will turn invisible when you hit classical age.

If you are running LoR light 0.96b, the pathfinder appears as red spheres. So follow instructions found here: Pathfinder fix

Shadowhal

Aug 26, 2009, 03:42 PM

sry, errror on my part, delete msg please.

Berenthor

Aug 27, 2009, 03:50 AM

Ah oke, I think I will release the version I have now (0.94b) and then also update it to 0.96b and release both so people can always use it regardless of version.

Berenthor

Sep 01, 2009, 04:14 PM

achilleszero

Sep 01, 2009, 05:22 PM

Sweet, its about time!:p. Im anxious to see what you have included.

EDIT: Do you think we should make a add-on/modcomp DL thread? And maybe sticky it so that it will get exposure?

Berenthor

Sep 02, 2009, 02:29 AM

That's a good idea to make, especially for all the add-ons and maps that are being made it would be good to have them somewhere.

I hope I have all the bugs and balance issues worked out. When I have the time I will add the trait combos in the first post for all the included leaders. I was looking at the darkciv mod a few days ago and it has some awesome features. When I have a stable version later on for the new version I think I might actually see if I can add some of that stuff (oppressiveness of a regime, hated civics :))

SHS`

Sep 02, 2009, 06:40 AM

I just uploaded a first version of the mod (finally :blush:). It is for LoR 0.9.4b. I will wait for 0.9.6c to update the mod and then hopefully release it as soon as the version comes out. I hope some people might already enjoy playing around with this version and give feedback on balance, bugs, etc.

See first post for download link.

Yaay, have downloaded this and though I'm currently in a game as the Japanese, I am pleased to see (from browsing the XML files... :crazyeye:) that you've Taizong (of Tang (Li Shimin) as opposed to Song (Zhao Kuangyi)?) as an additional leader for the Chinese... and that he's not Protective! Not sure how the Strategic thing will work out though... next game, next game. ;)

Also curious about the Seafaring trait. As true seafarers will have a lot of coastal/island cities... what tends to suck within Civ4 in such situations is that production stinks due to lack of hammers. So what are the chances of hammers from the sea (a la one hit wonder Moai Statues) or use sea :food: as hammers? If it's doable but overpowered, you could nerf land :hammers: until a specific tech, say Machinery or, errr... Steampower? Hmmm...

PS: The Chinese are also an old seafaring culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_history_of_China) and some of the largest naval battles in history (pre-WW2) involved them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_naval_battle_in_history)... I blame the last Manchurian Qing dynasty for tainting the name and losing in the Opium Wars. :lol:

Berenthor

Sep 02, 2009, 06:58 AM

I'm glad to see people are playing this! Those are good ideas for the seafaring trait. Currently it only has sea/ship enhancements but I also want it to have an advantage if a player has a landlocked start. I'm thinking of additional hammers or gold from traderoutes but this did not work out very good last time I tried so to be able to release I did it like this.

The trait might require a little balancing. I already changed it compared to the original from tsentom (that had 50% less upgrade cost like the Leonardo workshop wonder) and made it 25% less upgrade cost and additional XP from military academy. It is possible it was nerfed to much.

As for the leaders I want all the new leaders to have at least one of the new traits and no overlapping traits between leaders. To make the mod easily compatible with LoR I don't want to touch the existing leaders and therefore every new leaders requires at least one of the new traits to not overlap with existing ones. LoR uses every trait combination exactly ones.

SHS`

Sep 02, 2009, 03:12 PM

Well... a stalemate game as the Japanese where I couldn't be bothered to slug it for another 100+ turns, gave Taizong a whirl on an edited Lean's map... with a clean startup I get the following XML error/warning:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226717&d=1251922079

However, exiting to LoR main menu, retry and it works where I guess the difference being that the XML files are cached that time round.

phungus420

Sep 02, 2009, 03:24 PM

SHS`

Sep 02, 2009, 03:47 PM

If you're playing Lean's map on a 0.9.4 build, that error would be caused because in LoR 0.9.4 and ealier the pathfinder's string was UNIT_FRONTIERSMAN (and unitclass was UNITCLASS_FRONTIERSMAN), 0.9.6 changed the string to UNIT_PATHFINDER so that the strings were consistent and things would be less confusing for mod modders, and mapmakers.

Ah... the man of LoR himself. :cool: Are we on the same page and referring to the WorldBuilder text file? If so then that only has UNIT_WARRIOR defined (poor Khan gets two and no settler as per http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8417687#post8417687). One fixed for the next LoR release? :D

Now another thing I just noticed, but have no idea if if it's the add-on or the fact I turned unit animation back on (otherwise get pink units or Next War Dreadnoughts showing instead of ships :lol:)... or worse still a combination of both, I saw a really strange Vietnamese Axeman:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226719&stc=1&d=1251924141

... then when I started building UUs, I got the same thing and the poor units aren't very operatable (you can select them and move them, but the UI for upgrades etc all breaks... double click a unit based in a city will take you into city view... ESC twice and get mucho funkiness:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=226720&stc=1&d=1251924141

Is it the same red blob issue as this? :confused:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162401

phungus420

Sep 02, 2009, 04:01 PM

We are working on releasing 0.9.6c right now, It'll be up by this time tommarrow. Anyway I'm sure the red blob art bug you're showing will be fixed in that version. These art bugs are the reason the download link for 0.9.6b was removed, there were too many of them and some were critical (would cause crashes), or major like the red blob you're showing, and the disapearing cottages issues. These should all be fixed in 0.9.6c.

The Next War Dreadnought, and Next War Mech showing up in bizzare spots is caused by a known bug with Frozen animations. If you need to play the game on frozen animation mode, you should be using LoR light, and not the full install, if your computer can handle it, it's recommended you turn on animations, the full version of LoR is meant to be played with animations on (and for those who need to play on frozen animation mod, that's what LoR light is for).

SHS`

Sep 02, 2009, 04:08 PM

We are working on releasing 0.9.6c right now, It'll be up by this time tommarrow. Anyway I'm sure the red blob art bug you're showing will be fixed in that version. These art bugs are the reason the download link for 0.9.6b was removed, there were too many of them and some were critical (would cause crashes), or major like the red blob you're showing, and the disapearing cottages issues. These should all be fixed in 0.9.6c.

Excellent++; :goodjob: Being 5am where I am... shall get some sleep and check back later tomorrow (or more likely day after for me). :)

The Next War Dreadnought, and Next War Mech showing up in bizzare spots is caused by a known bug with Frozen animations. If you need to play the game on frozen animation mode, you should be using LoR light, and not the full install, if your computer can handle it, it's recommended you turn on animations, the full version of LoR is meant to be played with animations on (and for those who need to play on frozen animation mod, that's what LoR light is for).

It didn't actually bother me too much, just thought it was quite funny seeing said units in the middle of ocean. ;)

Berenthor

Sep 03, 2009, 03:53 AM

Thanks for the responses phungus. I am also glad to see someone tried out the L&L add-on :goodjob:. I haven't tested all civilizations and actually haven't seen these issues with the art (only played a few games with in total 4 different civs). As soon as the new version is out, I will try to update the add-on as fast as possible too.

Berenthor

Sep 09, 2009, 02:32 PM

I updated Leaders & Legends to the latest version of LoR (0.96c*). I hope the critical bugs are out of it and that I can begin to get some feedback on the balance and bugs of L&L :).

Download Link:
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ah7fc44/n/L_amp_L_0_96c_rar or
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/133453/L-L-0-96c-rar.html

Berenthor

Sep 09, 2009, 02:45 PM

achilleszero

Sep 09, 2009, 03:10 PM

Sorry for posting again, but in this version, everything seems to work but in the Civilopedia, some buttons look very strange (see screenshot). Any idea what might be causing this? It wasn't there before in the previous version.

Buttons saved with Mipmaps cause that. Somehow they got switched or got saved with mip maps. Resave them in Gimp or whatever program without mipmaps in DXT3. I save them with no compression because at 64x64 pixels, compression actually makes the dds look crappier. But they are probably already been compressed once from the looks of it, so the damage has already been done.

SHS`

Sep 15, 2009, 05:05 AM

Right, have given this another shot with 0.9.6c*, playing as Taizong on Lean's Earth map. It would seem that the Strategic trait is b0rked... rather than costing 25% less :gold: to upgrade, it actually seems to be free upgrades (not that I'm complaining! :p;)).

Also, aside from many runs of bad luck... any reason why when I try Taizong in a custom scenario and everyone starts as a minor civ, all my immediate neighbours will be angry at best, to furious by the time I've researched enough to allow various diplomacy options?

Playing as Qin Shi Huang on the same settings, I can all the East Asia block all buddy-buddy with me, complete with shared religion (Confuscianism and/or Taoism, with choose religions enabled) despite being the 3rd to found one?

Berenthor

Sep 16, 2009, 11:54 AM

Those are wierd bugs, I have not seen them myself. I actually never play on "start as minors" or "choose religions". I'll see about that as soon as possible. About the strategic trait bug, it would seem I missed something during testing. I'll try it out, I think it might be some rounding error.

Thanks for the report, I was already wondering if people were playing it :).

Berenthor

Sep 16, 2009, 02:15 PM

phungus420

Sep 16, 2009, 02:16 PM

If your strategic trait is based off of Tsentom's python, it'll override the Leonardo's Workshop code. You should move it from Python, and clone the tag in BuildingInfos for reducing upgrades into TraitInfos. Handling things with the SDK is usually much easier, and more efficient in the long run. Particularly with something like this, as the code already exists, you just need to clone it so it can be loaded from TraitInfos as well.

SHS`

Sep 19, 2009, 05:13 AM

I fixed the bug with the strategic trait, there was a floating point that did not get converted to an integer so it became 0. You can unpack the file in the attachment into the python directory of assets. Also the main download links have been updated to include the new file.

That fixed it... upgrading a Warrior to Grenadier on Epic normally costs 276:gold: now cost 207:gold: :)(&:cry:... not free anymore!)

About the minor civs question, I tried it out with two different leaders and the first civs I encountered were both cautious (the green-bluish smilie) but not yet angry (red smilie). I haven't tried Taizong yet. Is this something that happens only in the L&L add-on or also in normal LoR?

Taizong is only in the L&L add-on, and I've only tried minor civs on the Earth Map with Qin besides Taizong. But playing on Noble+Normal Speed and having Gandhi (of all people!) waging war for 200+ turns(!!!) before allowing peace was a bit odd. May well have been a couple runs of bad luck but with Qin every civ in my near neighbourhood will be quite buddy-buddy once general diplomacy works. Might just be my bad luck! ;)

If your strategic trait is based off of Tsentom's python, it'll override the Leonardo's Workshop code. You should move it from Python, and clone the tag in BuildingInfos for reducing upgrades into TraitInfos. Handling things with the SDK is usually much easier, and more efficient in the long run. Particularly with something like this, as the code already exists, you just need to clone it so it can be loaded from TraitInfos as well.

Trying with the vanilla (distro) and Berenthor's fixed CvGameUtils.py, it would seem poor Leonardo's Workshop doesn't work at all, regardless of leadertrait. :( Tested this as China with old Mao, worldbuildered myself Tech to Renaissance era, then adding/removing the workshop to see if it made any difference. I recall this bug when I played a game back on the older 0.9.4a version as Japan/Meiji as well. :)

Berenthor

Sep 19, 2009, 05:54 AM

Good to know the bug is now fixed everywhere. I didn't know that the Leonardo's workshop code was moved to the SDK or that it would interfere with the python code. I'll have a look at it as soon as possible, although I wanted to avoid changing the SDK for easier updating when LoR updates to a new version. Is there a chance you can expose it in the next version, Phungus, even if you don't use it yourself yet in LoR?

Also, did you see Achilleszero's suggestion a while back to make a sticky thread with all the add-ons for LoR? Maybe that will also get me some more players of L&L :mischief:.

About the minor civs, I'll see if I can reproduce it, but up till now I tested it with a few leaders (some from LoR and some from L&L) and the worst I saw in attitude when I met them was the blue-green color (cautious maybe, I don't remember the term).

Berenthor

Oct 24, 2009, 11:42 AM

Currently working on the new version compatible with 0.9.7. I'm reevaluating the traits I have and the leaders due to the leader changes in this version. I might change the strategic trait to the version that phungus was suggesting and remove maybe mercantile or change it. Any ideas are welcome.

Also, I'm thinking of adding the "Afrikakorps" as a tank legend (Rommels tank corps).

achilleszero

Oct 24, 2009, 12:18 PM

The new leaders that will be in v0.98 are:

Constantine-----------Str/Enl*
Henry the Navigator---Str/Exp
Johan DeWitt---------Str/Fin
Nebuchadnezzar------Str/Ind
Heraclius-------------Str/Imp*
Smoke Jaguar---------Str/Org
Trung Trac-----------Cha/Cre*
Dido-----------------Cha/Fin
Gustav Vasa---------Agg/Phi*
Logan---------------Cre/Phi*
Halie Selassie--------Pro/Spi
Charlemagne---------Imp/Pro*

Leaders that will have thier traits changed to make way for new guys:

Hannibal-------------Cha/Str
Napolean------------Agg/Str
Sobieski-------------Str/Phi
Churchill-------------Str/Pro
Abu Bakr-------------Str/Spi
DeGaulle-------------Cha/Ind*
Xerxes---------------Agg/Imp*
Qin------------------Imp/Ind
Bolivar---------------Cha/Org
Boudica--------------Cha/Pro
Brennus--------------Org/Spi

So that leaves In/Phi, Fin/Imp, Ind/Org, Org/Pro, Cre/Str as the unused traits so far. Id like to use them all so I need to find 5 more leaders. In addition to the above leaders, Franz, Francis (maybe unless he is for HRE), and Casimir(because he is reskin of Charlemagne) are likely gone. Theres a high chance that Solomon and Israel will get added and most likely be the one to take Ind/Phi if Pericles doesnt get it.

The leaders with *'s by thier traits are ones that Id like to switch and find better ones for. But any of them really could get changed. For instance Id like Constantine to be Str/Imp but that would give Rome access to 3 leaders with Imp, plus I dont know what else to make Heraclius

Berenthor

Oct 24, 2009, 12:23 PM

achilleszero

Oct 24, 2009, 12:37 PM

Thanks for the info. Weren't some of these already in the current 0.9.7 like Constantine, Henry the Navigator and Logan for example? Heraclius you're going to use the same leaderhead/pedia as I have? Gustav Vasa is gonna be for the Vikings?

I dont know if theyre in 0.97, I havent installed it yet. I thought the new leaders werent getting added in this version. I know that some of the pedia entries will be the same as yours.

Yes Gustav Vasa will be the Vikings. I would like to have a more "viking" leader like Canute the Great or someone, but there are no LHs as good as Vasa (Harald looks too much like Ragnar).

phungus420

Oct 24, 2009, 12:40 PM

The leaders with *'s by thier traits are ones that Id like to switch and find better ones for. But any of them really could get changed. For instance Id like Constantine to be Str/Imp but that would give Rome access to 3 leaders with Imp, plus I dont know what else to make Heraclius
I'd really like for Napolean to be Str/Enl, Hannibal Str/Cha, and Alexander Str/Agg if that changes any of your trait combos.

achilleszero

Oct 24, 2009, 12:50 PM

I'd really like for Napolean to be Str/Enl, Hannibal Str/Cha, and Alexander Str/Agg if that changes any of your trait combos.

Hannibals already Str/Cha, but Ill have to change the other two. I can see Alex being Str/Agg but why give Napolean enlightened? Strategic seems weaker than the other military traits but enlightned would make up for it, but not in a military way.

phungus420

Oct 24, 2009, 01:00 PM

In my previous testing of 0.9.7 test builds, Strategic was actually pretty strong. Also Napolean being enlightened makes sense because of the fact France's conquest of Western Europe brought liberalized governmental principles to many European Nations that were previously autocratic. Even after France's and Napolean's defeat, and the reinstatement of various monarchs, the monarchs never again achieved absolute authority and the notion of the Divine Right of Kings was dead, also this gauranteed freedom of religion in Western Europe. Look up Republicanism in Europe for more information, but suffice it to say the liberalization of European Society has a lot to do with Napolean's conquests.

Ambassador

Oct 25, 2009, 04:42 AM

Omega124

Dec 19, 2009, 09:54 PM

I'm going to have to download this later!

My only suggestion is that, if the HMS Victory is in, then the USS Constitution should also be in, to. I really want my country to have it's own Legend, and, well, this would make for a fine choice.

USS Constitution
:strength:12
:move:3
Immune to first strikes
Has 3 First Srike chances
100%:strength: when engaged with Frigates
Starts with Blitz, Navigation I, and Navigation 2

JanusTalaiini

Dec 20, 2009, 02:35 AM

Berenthor

Dec 20, 2009, 07:14 AM

Sorry for the lack of posting here, been busy with too much stuff and will try to update the mod to 0.9.8 as soon as I can.

About the USS Constitution, like JanusTalaiini already pointed out, the US has one legend already (54th infantry) and I don't really want to Ship of the Line legends. I think with three sailing ship legends (Santa Maria, Adler von Lubeck and the HMS Victory) the sailing ship legends is more than enough for that time period.

Omega124

Dec 20, 2009, 09:32 PM

Oh yeah... I forgot about the 54th...

USS Constitution is a wooden-hulled, three-masted heavy frigate of the United States Navy.

I gave it an improved Ship-of-the-line ability as most of her foes were frigates, and she did a fine job at sinking them, to. Now that I think of it, "Always targets Frigates" might not be a bad idea either, if she's included.

I guess to make it fair, the Ship-of-the-line bonus against frigates would apply on her, to. We could also apply the 100% bonus only to defending, but that would limit Ironside's usefulness (In THAT case, I wouldn't include the "Always target Frigates").

I think I might be getting too carried away here, though.

I think, if anything, we could test run it, to see if four sailing ships is overcrowded (Which, now that you say it, probably will).

JanusTalaiini

Dec 21, 2009, 10:59 AM

Yep, the 54th, and the 101st. ;)

Keipher

Jan 21, 2010, 06:06 AM

I doubt this is the right thread, but I'm too lazy to start my own.
Seeing as we already have Judaism and many of it's neighboring civs, I just wanted to put out a little shout for a new civ: Israel.
Leaders could include:
Biblical: King David (Spiritual, Strategic) King Solomon (Financial, Enlightened)
Modern: Menachem Begin (Aggressive, Strategic), or any other famous generals/leaders
UU: Slinger (Archery unit; requires Masonry, stone: strength 4, starts with guerrilla I) and the IDF or some sort of modern special forces (the name escapes me) unit that could take the place of Navy Seals, with perhaps the same unit art and strengths.
UB: Tabernacle (replaces temple, +1 happiness, +1 culture, helps spread state religion)

Or somethings like that. Modern leaders should have the tendency to defy UN/Apostolic proposals, as well as launch pre-emptive strikes against rival neighbors. Also, another possible UU is the Zealot--either a warrior with +50% defense in cities with state religion, or a spy replacement with 10% discount and the ability to carry out actual troop assassinations with enough EPs.
Israel was a very unique and interesting civ throughout history, I'd definitely enjoy playing both for and against them.

PS. Though I've never played it, there'd probably be some helpful art and leaderheads in The Ancient Mediterranean mod.

killmeplease

Jan 23, 2010, 04:44 AM

+15%:food:/:hammers: per :traderoute: for mercantile is plain worthless. it should be at least 25.

killmeplease

Jan 23, 2010, 04:53 AM

on Legendary units

Black Band (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Band_%28landsknechts%29) unit may be interesting

WRobN

Jan 24, 2010, 10:01 AM

Why do most mods dont include Adolf Hitler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2138) as a possible leader?
I mean common... the german warmonger is one of worlds most known military leaders.

I know those unique buildings have problems because the most documented "special building" is the gas chamber... but there's also: Hitler's mausoleum, Deutsches Stadion (olympic games), Zeppelinfeld stadium in Nuremberg, Volkshalle and the Dietrich Eckart Stage
Also he had V2 rockets, the best tanks for its time, SA (Sturm Abteilung) (sturm troopers), pantzer-grenadiers / Panzer Jägern (also known as tank hunters, tank destroyers or anti-tankers) and Panzerschütze (tank gunner)

WRobN

Jan 25, 2010, 10:22 AM

Why do most mods dont include Adolf Hitler (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2138) as a possible leader?
I mean common... the german warmonger is one of worlds most known military leaders.

LOL now im getting cunfused...
I see not all info is up to date. What is noted in the forum as content doesnt match the content ingame.
Hitler is in it, but i cant find that info in the forums.
Also on the Civopedia leader section of the mod some leaders are missing.
The one with the big hat ( i dont know his name)

Maybe you people need to update the info on the forums so it matches game content..

By the way i love this mod. The best thing is its speed. Smooth gameplay.
This one is in my top 3 mods!

LoR
Mars Now!
FfH

Imagine playing LoR, then a Final Frontier like mod takes it over to space, then Mars, Now lets you colonize the other planets....
All in one game :eek:
I know im a dreamer, but wouldnt it be nice?
Especially when this works multiplayer. Instead one planet, multiple are in pre-space-age, as soon you "win" the planet war (Legends of Revolution style) you go to space age where you defend your planets with starships etc (Final Frontier style). Only very late space tech allows to influence the planet directly so you go down first to colonize it (Mars, Now! style) But other planets also could be inhabited by human players (multiple planet games getting linked to one space map).
:hammer2::yumyum::drool::woohoo:

nbeerbower

Feb 05, 2010, 04:01 PM

Perhaps you could add Michael Collins as a Char/Strat Leader for the Celts. I think they could use a "modern" leader.

Wiz4War

Feb 20, 2010, 08:25 AM

Benenthor: For the love of god I think Im finished with the man o wars. Had to do some crazy stuff with it to actually make it do what I wanted. Didnt like the way the shader made it look (way to dark and dull). But for some reason MechNonShader (oddly enough also a shader despite its name), didnt work. So I had to wind up deleting the cannons on one copy, the deleting everything but the cannons on another copy. So now the cannons work, it looks bright and colorful, and has damage textures. May I never see another ship again!:p

222697

So each has its own button. The default models have plain sails. If you like them to have the fancy sails by JustATourist, there is a folder named FancySails. There is a texture for each model, just drop it in the folder and you will have them. Also the normal Man O War is in the same folder path that all UU's will have now. You dont have to follow it, but it would be good for consistancy.

222698222699

Wiz4War: there are the finished products. Everything is about as close as I could get it according to your descriptions. Except the pennant is in the wrong place and the blue on the bottom of the pennant doesnt show up very well. What'ya think?

EDIT: Oh yeah,there is a small union jack on the bowsprit, you just cant see it from this side cuz of the sails.

I seem to be about 6 months out of date with this reply...sorry. But none the less, from what I see, these ships look perfect! Great job!

Now I just have to wait for L&L to catch up to LoR version, and for LoR (and I assume L&L) to work in MP and I will be a very happy camper :)

(Side note: the first post in this thread seems confusing to me... L&L over writes LoR? It's an add-on or a totally separate Mod?)