I know, I know - "Noble? Lulz, what a newb!"

Especially considering I've been playing this franchise faithfully since Civ 2 I should be playing at a much higher level than I am right now. I've been trying to progress up the various difficulty levels. I can finally win consistently on Prince but every time I try to take that next step up to Noble I get raped, I can't seem to find a healthy medium between infrastructure and military. Either I focus too much on infrastructure, let my Power slip, and a nearby Civ crushes me or I spend too much time on military, screw up my economy, and fall too far behind in the Tech race. I'm hoping you Civ experts here can offer up some tips to make this transition a little smoother and less frustrating. Even if you can point me in the direction of some already written strategy guides that will aide in this specific transition I would greatly appreciate it.

I prefer the Builder strategy and, frankly, kinda suck at being a war monger in general. I can do it on Prince but it's always a struggle for me to win via Conquest/Domination while Science or Culture wins are a breeze and not even worth attempting because I win every time without so much as a challenge.

I'm very good when it comes to land placement and knowing when to expand vs when to build infrastructure in the early land grab phase of the game.

I tend to get distracted and slack a bit on early defenses. Either than or I go overkill and my economy/infrastructure suffers - I've never been able to find a happy medium for the number of troops I should have defending cities in the game.

Economically, I'm limited and know I need to improve. I've really never been able to grasp the concept of a Specialist or Espionage Economy and always stick to cottage spamming to fund my empire. Only recently have I been able to shed the Financial crutch and win consistently with non-Financial Leaders. I still struggle trying to play with any of the game's War Mongers besides Ragnar. I have a hard time balancing Military-Economy-Science. I still tend to use a Religion as a crutch when I have a non-Financial Leader and struggle if I don't found at least one.

I suck at War. I can mount a sufficient defense when it comes time to defend myself but I tend to overthink offensive wars and spend too much time on preparation. Failed attempts at Domination victories usually come as a result of not moving fast enough rather than not fighting effectively. I end up getting to that point where either I'm going to run out of time or someone else will win via Space Race/Culture before I can take over enough land.

That's a pretty decent overview of my strengths and weaknesses when it comes to Civ 4, any advice on what I need to shore up first or what strategy threads/articles I can read through to ease the frustration of moving from Prince -> Noble would be greatly appreciated.

Oh one more weakness - I suck at specializing cities. I tend to end up with a couple good Production cities along with a mish-mash of generic jack-of-all-trades cities.

Prince is a higher difficulty level than Noble. Either you mean Warlord -> Noble, or Noble -> Prince.

My suggestion is to set aside a production heavy city to build archers/axemen. If you have room to peacefully settle and like a peaceful strategy, this is a good way of doing it. Production heavy usually means high food in the early game for whipping.

However, if you are spawned close to another AI and don't have much land to peacefully settle, an early offensive war will usually make the game almost guaranteed win on Noble. Beeline to Bronzeworking, settle on bronze or with it in your first tier fat cross, whip up 5 or 6 axemen and go grab that AI capital.

Specializing cities starts from choosing the city placement and follows through with improvements and infrastructure.

Cottage Heavy Economy
Settle land that has 1 or 2 food resources, a couple hills, and as many riverside tiles as possible. Improve the food resources first, then put cottages down on the riverside tiles. These cities will be your main science and gold providers. Whip a granary first followed by library and then set the city to build a market. Of course, if the city is murdering you with maintenance, you may want to chop/whip a courthouse first. Cities with luxury resources (lots of :commerce:) and cottages will want granary and science/gold multiplier buildings only. After that you can gauge if you want to build extra troops, spies, or gold to supplement your cottage science % rate.

Specialist Heavy Economy
Settle land that has as much food as you can possibly fit into it. Whip granary. Whip library. After the city grows and can feed specialists, work scientists. In cities that don't have > 2 food resources, set up like cottage cities above and only build :gold: multipliers at first. You can do :science: multipliers later. Doing this, you can lower your science slider so the cottages/luxury resources provide :gold: while the scientist specialists and resultant Great Scientists provide the beakers.

Hammer Economies
These are a lot less necessary on Noble and below, but they can be a huge help when REXing or after Emancipation nullifies your caste system science city that had 10 scientists ;). The idea is during your REX, research Alphabet. After your REX or early war, you set a couple cities to "build" research while teching towards Currency and continuing to REX more. Once you hit currency, change those cities to "build" wealth while teching Code of Laws (for courthouses). Then switch off of "building" wealth/research to building infrastructure, workers, or units. If you are running a food/specialist heavy economy, Emancipation can kill your science by making you lower your 5-6+ scientist cities to only 3 max. By setting aside a few cities that focus on :hammers: (even on grassland tiles), you can set them to "build research" and make up for the lost scientists. You'd have to look it up in the war academy for more specifics, though.

Yeah sorry, I meant Warlord -> Noble

That's a pretty decent overview of my strengths and weaknesses when it comes to Civ 4, any advice on what I need to shore up first or what strategy threads/articles I can read through to ease the frustration of moving from Prince -> Noble would be greatly appreciated.

(1) It's a strategy game. Learn to plan. Think about what you want the game to look like 30 turns from now, then do ONLY those things that contribute to that goal.

I suck at War.

(2) Get over it. Waging war is the easiest weakness in the AI to exploit. So learn how an Axe rush works. Learn how catapults work. You don't need to use these clubs - the game should be played in whatever way is the most fun - but if you want to get better, and to be successful at higher levels, you need to have them in your bag.

Review the games (especially the early games) in the All Leaders Challenge series. How many of those games feature the pattern "dominate the continent early, coast to a win"?

Learn to plan


Is just a CIV variation of Learn to play?.
:joke: Cheap I know.

Is just a CIV variation of Learn to play?.
:joke: Cheap I know.

Cheap, yes - but it was the big take away for me the first time I started reading the forums, so I raise the point from time to time, just in case it will help.

Because, let's face it - CIV isn't a particularly shiny example of the "mash buttons, chase tokens" genre.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=314007

I suck at War. I can mount a sufficient defense when it comes time to defend myself but I tend to overthink offensive wars and spend too much time on preparation.

1. Have your first non-capitol, production city be your military city. First rule of military cities: build only military units. Second rule of military cities: build only military units. Third rule of military cities: build only the buildings that make rule #1 and #2 better. Fourth rule of military cities: when you reach the happiness/health limit, then you are allowed to build something else, then go back to rule #1.

2. In your non-military cities, every other build should be a catapult/treb/cannon/etc. Early in my career, I found my wars were always waiting on me to build the cats and trebs.

1. Have your first non-capitol, production city be your military city. First rule of military cities: build only military units. Second rule of military cities: build only military units. Third rule of military cities: build only the buildings that make rule #1 and #2 better. Fourth rule of military cities: when you reach the happiness/health limit, then you are allowed to build something else, then go back to rule #1.

I strongly object to your fourth rule. If you don't have enough health/happy resources to get your military city to a reasonable size, then you haven't built enough units. :hammer:

2. In your non-military cities, every other build should be a catapult/treb/cannon/etc. Early in my career, I found my wars were always waiting on me to build the cats and trebs.
This seems like a good tip, but don't you want CRI from barracks? Or is mass production/suicide cats/survivors get CRI the best way?

I only really put barracks into my production/unit cities unless I'm Shaka or running a FE/SE for drafting.

:science::health:
Especially considering I've been playing this franchise faithfully since Civ 2


I came from this background as well...you will have to shed some of the preconceptions you developed playing Civ2. If you really want good feedback post a save of your game or a few screenshots.


I prefer the Builder strategy and, frankly, kinda suck at being a war monger in general.


It sounds like you have classic builderitis...meaning you construct too many buildings too early. This is common among Civ4 novices. You should build more units and only do buildings when you truly need them; i.e. if you have 10 :health: and 8 :yuck: then building that aqueduct is a waste of hammers. Instead you can build a few axemen to attack that annoying barbarian city on your border. The aqueduct can then be built as your troops are storming the enemy's streets.

Same thing for multiplier buildings like libraries. If your city produces 4 :science: then a library only gives 1 more and that's really a waste of production. Build the library at a later time when it actually provides some benefit.


I tend to get distracted and slack a bit on early defenses. Either than or I go overkill and my economy/infrastructure suffers - I've never been able to find a happy medium for the number of troops I should have defending cities in the game.


Like I said, build more units and less buildings. What I do is research bronze working very early and post axemen around my borders at strategic points (i.e. forested hills) to guard against intruders. But there are other strategies you can pursue. For city defense I keep 2-3 units in each city. Especially for border/coastal cities I keep 3 well-promoted updated units, plus a horse unit in the region for attacking the attackers. Be sure to use terrain to your advantage during combat.


Economically, I'm limited and know I need to improve. I've really never been able to grasp the concept of a Specialist or Espionage Economy and always stick to cottage spamming to fund my empire. Only recently have I been able to shed the Financial crutch and win consistently with non-Financial Leaders. I still struggle trying to play with any of the game's War Mongers besides Ragnar. I have a hard time balancing Military-Economy-Science. I still tend to use a Religion as a crutch when I have a non-Financial Leader and struggle if I don't found at least one.


Make sure you build lots of cottages! That should be your default land improvement, like when in doubt build a cottage. On noble level founding a religion is totally acceptable. On higher levels people say you shouldn't only because other things are more important, not because it's bad. They do like shrines...they just conquer them instead of building. It's very possible to conquer a shrine early in the game where you barely miss out on any income. Also, on the medium levels it's easier to get a later religion like confucianism.

There are other ways to rack up income. Trade a lot and each time try to get all the gold you can. I find the AI lets go of its gold a little too recklessly. Raid barbarian cities and pillage their improvements. Build wealth in your cities. Use privateers to pirate along enemy coastlines (there are many threads about this). Use slavery to whip courthouses and prioritize techs that give you the next financial boost. On noble level you can definitely build 2 scouts to find huts for extra money. These things all really add up and you can use that money to bump up your science slider.


I suck at War. I can mount a sufficient defense when it comes time to defend myself but I tend to overthink offensive wars and spend too much time on preparation. Failed attempts at Domination victories usually come as a result of not moving fast enough rather than not fighting effectively. I end up getting to that point where either I'm going to run out of time or someone else will win via Space Race/Culture before I can take over enough land.


Another classic disease: over-estimating-the-AI-itis. The AI is really quite terrible at warfare. Do yourself a favor: run an experimental game where you research bronze-working early, build about 4-5 axemen and send them flying toward your nearest neighbor's capital. You'll see for yourself just how weak they are.

Preparing for a big war takes a long time so if you want to beat up on your neighbor, start formulating your plan 50-100 years in advance and try to anticipate the tech level you and your enemy will be at. When the time finally comes, just pull the trigger and don't overanalyze. Perfection isn't necessary. A strong army has lots of siege units and a diversity of other units.

Specializing cities will do WONDERS for you! Play a game where you have 1 production city that builds nothing but military units, and 1 great person farm. You can also build commerce cities that are almost exclusively cottaged and rarely build units. Get the GP farm settled as early as possible since early GPs make a huge difference for rocketing ahead of the AI!!!

When you get the hang of that you can play games where you have 2-3 production cities, a whole host of cottage cities, and maybe 2 GP farms. It really changes everything!

attack early- if later (medeival) raze (have settler in stack)

"4 than war " (4 cities and attack)

greed and building to many buildings will hurt you

don't put to much credance in the cottage stuff- lots of ways to win- a cottage is a tile improvement- one amongst many-

build twice as many units as you think you need and play aggressively- every civ out there is trying to kill you - act like it.

Also, whip up infrastructure buildings. I know Birdman said that having a city with 4:science: makes a library not worth building, but it's definitely worth whipping in a new city that has a lot of cottagable land (riverside tiles) or luxury resources (lots of :commerce:). I like to have my multiplier buildings up ASAP so the benefit is provided throughout the entire cottage growth period.

don't put to much credance in the cottage stuff- lots of ways to win- a cottage is a tile improvement- one amongst many-
LoL. Too true. As you and "Attacko" have proven so many times. This is especially true at Noble level and below. Cottages are overrated ;)

Also, whip up infrastructure buildings. I know Birdman said that having a city with 4:science: makes a library not worth building, but it's definitely worth whipping in a new city that has a lot of cottagable land (riverside tiles) or luxury resources (lots of :commerce:). I like to have my multiplier buildings up ASAP so the benefit is provided throughout the entire cottage growth period.


I'll agree with that. If a city has big cottage potential and is growing fast, then a library makes sense.

Thanks for the advice so far everyone, keep them coming. A few more specific questions:

1) What should I aim for in terms of defense in cities? I usually try to aim for around 4-5 units - 2 of whatever the best Defensive unit of the era is, 1 Attack unit, 1 Siege unit, and in my border cities I'll keep a fast-moving horse unit to go after barbarians and AI units sent to pillage squares. Is this sufficient or should I aim for more defense?

2) In terms of my War over-preparation issue, what number of units would you consider to be enough to initiate a war? I usually go for 2 stacks of 15-20 + at least 5 or 6 siege units. Is this overkill? I'm also obsessed with having TWO SoD's so I can attack on 2 fronts, is this worth the effort and extra production it takes or should I learn to focus on just having one extremely strong stack?

3) How long should I wait before I start propping up a defense in my cities? I've seen many people say a Warrior should be the FIRST thing you build (and probably the second too) in your first city but then I've seen people describe games where they build 4 or 5 other units before a warrior. I usually build Worker -> Warrior -> Warrior and then decide from there what to build next. I always aim to have a Barracks up before I finish researching Archery.

4) Whipping -> I've seen people say you should never start doing it before you have a Granary in the city, I've seen others advocate starting the moment you switch to Slavery. Thoughts? I ask because my tech path usually leads me to BW before Pottery so should I wait until I get pottery and chop some Granaries or start whipping out units as soon as I transition to Slavery?

I'm sure I'll think of more, thanks again for any advice everyone.

It sounds like you have classic builderitis...meaning you construct too many buildings too early. This is common among Civ4 novices. You should build more units and only do buildings when you truly need them; i.e. if you have 10 :health: and 8 :yuck: then building that aqueduct is a waste of hammers. Instead you can build a few axemen to attack that annoying barbarian city on your border. The aqueduct can then be built as your troops are storming the enemy's streets.

Same thing for multiplier buildings like libraries. If your city produces 4 :science: then a library only gives 1 more and that's really a waste of production. Build the library at a later time when it actually provides some benefit.

This is something I KNOW I have to keep banging into my head and get in the habit of following. I definitely suffer from a BRUTAL case of Builderitis. I want every building in every city as soon as it's available and honestly that probably holds me back more than anything else. Even when I'm War Mongering I obsess over getting things like Libraries and Temples in all my cities as soon as they're available. It's like an addiction, seeing a list of build options populated with a bunch of buildings just gets to me and I get the crack itch to abandon whatever my current plans are and get those buildings built. I NEED to get into the habit of building only what a city needs and not obsessing over having every improvement in every city.

2) In terms of my War over-preparation issue, what number of units would you consider to be enough to initiate a war? I usually go for 2 stacks of 15-20 + at least 5 or 6 siege units. Is this overkill? I'm also obsessed with having TWO SoD's so I can attack on 2 fronts, is this worth the effort and extra production it takes or should I learn to focus on just having one extremely strong stack?
Yes and no and yes no.

1st, if you plan on warring with siege units, make sure the majority of your stack is siege. How many depends on the size / power of the target. A good small stack is 12 catapults 5 swords, 3 axes, 2 spear 2 archers to defend captured city. The siege gets suicided/survivors get promotions, swords for attacking, axes/spears for stack defense, archers to hold captured lands.

EDIT: Maybe a couple chariots, too. But if you have Horseback Riding, a few HA do well, too.

This is all situational. For example, if your target doesn't have any metals, you can invade with only chariots. If your target is protective, bring a bunch more suicide catapults. If you have an early UU, aim for spamming more of those. You don't always need to be siege-strong, but as a general case scenario, the stack I described above is good. Up the #s in ratio if you need more troops.

I also like to add that Civ4 plays completely different then the previous civs. I took me ages to adjust my playing style to Civ3. Actually if it wasn't for this forum I probably wouldn't play this game anymore.
So keep in mind that this is a new civ with quite a different approach so try to look at it as civ4 and not as a previous civ.

My big step up was using cottages and slavery. Yes I never used slavery... how could I ever whip population from my cities? That couldn't be good! But it is... every unhappy citizen is an unwanted citizen and needs to be whipped. (most of the time). Same with cities working unworked tiles, either whip em or get more workers! Wait... whip a worker! That's the best idea I think :)

Cottages start slow, but will be huge later on. Actually early on they look like . .. .. .. ., but all that extra gold helps you keep your economy running.

1) I think you're defending too strongly and again over-estimating the AI. This is preventing you from creating an attack army. Just do "2 of whatever the best Defensive unit of the era is...and in my border cities I'll keep a fast-moving horse unit to go after barbarians and AI units sent to pillage squares."

2) How many attack units you need is always different...it just depends on the situation and your goals. Certainly build more siege. Also, fielding 2 mega-stacks only makes sense when you can realistically build them. Just go with 1 for starters and think about building a second one after the first one is engaged in combat.

3) Most folks agree worker should always be your 1st build. On noble level you can probably build several workers before you need a military unit. Your priority in the beginning should be growth, both vertical (population) and horizontal (# of cities).

4) I think this is subjective. You don't need a granary to whip, but it certainly helps a lot. I'd argue not to wait for the granary, just start whipping because the earlier things are built the more they pay off in the long-run.

Thanks for the advice so far everyone, keep them coming. A few more specific questions:

1) What should I aim for in terms of defense in cities? I usually try to aim for around 4-5 units - 2 of whatever the best Defensive unit of the era is, 1 Attack unit, 1 Siege unit, and in my border cities I'll keep a fast-moving horse unit to go after barbarians and AI units sent to pillage squares. Is this sufficient or should I aim for more defense?

I usually use 1-2 units to defend my cities. I look at the situation I'm in. Cities bordering a civ that's hostile toward me will most like have more units, but most of all I will try to have my own SoD (stack of doom) in one of those cities. Cities far within your borders only need 1 unit. Just make sure you always got an army ready for a war. Try to keep your powerrating up to avoid wars. If you barely got an army you will be attacked!

2) In terms of my War over-preparation issue, what number of units would you consider to be enough to initiate a war? I usually go for 2 stacks of 15-20 + at least 5 or 6 siege units. Is this overkill? I'm also obsessed with having TWO SoD's so I can attack on 2 fronts, is this worth the effort and extra production it takes or should I learn to focus on just having one extremely strong stack?

2 SoD's are nice coz it will speed the war up, but I think your first war(s) should have 1 SoD as building 2 SoD's will take too much time. Also when going to war try to have an advantage on them with more advanced units for example. If you go for an early rush attack once you got 10 axeman, coz making more will only allow your opponent to rex and build more units. Make sure you attack fast!

3) How long should I wait before I start propping up a defense in my cities? I've seen many people say a Warrior should be the FIRST thing you build (and probably the second too) in your first city but then I've seen people describe games where they build 4 or 5 other units before a warrior. I usually build Worker -> Warrior -> Warrior and then decide from there what to build next. I always aim to have a Barracks up before I finish researching Archery.

I personally never research archery, but I must admit that now that i'm playing emperor I've needed it more then once because the barbs appear faster, but on Noble you don't need archery. Animal husbandry and Bronze Working for either copper or horses should keep your defense up. No need to waste beakers on archery. Better get some good worker techs.

4) Whipping -> I've seen people say you should never start doing it before you have a Granary in the city, I've seen others advocate starting the moment you switch to Slavery. Thoughts? I ask because my tech path usually leads me to BW before Pottery so should I wait until I get pottery and chop some Granaries or start whipping out units as soon as I transition to Slavery?

I'm sure I'll think of more, thanks again for any advice everyone.

Absolutely whip before a granary. Granaries are nice as they speed up your growth so you can whip faster, but I also run into the problem of my cities growing too quickly so I need to whip faster causing disastrous unhappiness. Ofcourse this could be helped with more micromanagement, but if you don't micro that much it's annoying.
I usually start with a worker, then warriors till size 4 (sometimes 5) and start on a settles and whip it asap. Depending on the situation i'm in I sometimes finish the settler without a whip to start on another settler which I do whip tho.

Anyways I win consistently on monarch and sometimes on emperor. Best advice is ofcourse from Immortal Deity players :)

I strongly object to your fourth rule. If you don't have enough health/happy resources to get your military city to a reasonable size, then you haven't built enough units. :hammer:

Perhaps my fourth rule wasn't clear enough. Why build a temple in your military production city for happiness when your city is still 5 populaiton from reaching the happiness limit? Why build a temple in your military production city when you are just going to whip it back down?

Hooking up health and happiness resources alone should get your military production city to a reasonable size. There shouldn't be a need for health and happiness (except for the granary) buildings until you have a good sized army. Don't waste the time on a temple or market when you can turn out three or four units.

What should I aim for in terms of defense in cities?

Um - what you should aim for is not needing to worry about defense.


In terms of my War over-preparation issue, what number of units would you consider to be enough to initiate a war? I usually go for 2 stacks of 15-20 + at least 5 or 6 siege units.

Rough estimate: 5 or 6 siege units per city I plan to capture. One attacking unit per defender, with a few extra extra to take care of the bully anchoring the defense. If you are planning a campaign, you need to think about garrisons for the captured cities you are leaving behind, but that can often be back filled (ie, when you capture city #2, then you advance the garrison from city #1, and back fill city #1 from your own lines).

This seems like a good tip, but don't you want CRI from barracks? Or is mass production/suicide cats/survivors get CRI the best way?

I only really put barracks into my production/unit cities unless I'm Shaka or running a FE/SE for drafting.

My issue was that I never pre-built enough cats/trebs. I would have my attack force ready for war, but they would have to wait for the cats and trebs to be built and catch up. By using every other production slot method for siege weapons, I eliminated this flaw in my gameplay.

My military city can concentrate on getting the main city raiders. Plus, I never count on a siege unit surviving a battle.

1) What should I aim for in terms of defense in cities? I usually try to aim for around 4-5 units - 2 of whatever the best Defensive unit of the era is, 1 Attack unit, 1 Siege unit, and in my border cities I'll keep a fast-moving horse unit to go after barbarians and AI units sent to pillage squares. Is this sufficient or should I aim for more defense?
Actually, it's grossly excessive. Border cities may do well with such a defense (not all of them, though - bordering a close ally or a weakling doesn't warrant it), but interior cities should have maybe one or two defenders. Potentially more for MP duty if you're in Hereditary Rule, but you don't need to defend everything that strongly.

2) In terms of my War over-preparation issue, what number of units would you consider to be enough to initiate a war? I usually go for 2 stacks of 15-20 + at least 5 or 6 siege units. Is this overkill? I'm also obsessed with having TWO SoD's so I can attack on 2 fronts, is this worth the effort and extra production it takes or should I learn to focus on just having one extremely strong stack?
Depends on the era. Ancient wars will do well with 5-6 units. Classical maybe 10 or so for an effective attack. It increases over time, and with the scope of your objectives. And while two stacks can definitely be effective, it's not worth delaying in order to build them.

3) How long should I wait before I start propping up a defense in my cities? I've seen many people say a Warrior should be the FIRST thing you build (and probably the second too) in your first city but then I've seen people describe games where they build 4 or 5 other units before a warrior. I usually build Worker -> Warrior -> Warrior and then decide from there what to build next. I always aim to have a Barracks up before I finish researching Archery.
Depends on the difficulty, and especially on whether Raging barbs are set. On lower levels you can easily get by until 3000 BC or later without any defense at all. And Archery is often a waste; Axemen are in many cases a superior choice.

4) Whipping -> I've seen people say you should never start doing it before you have a Granary in the city, I've seen others advocate starting the moment you switch to Slavery. Thoughts? I ask because my tech path usually leads me to BW before Pottery so should I wait until I get pottery and chop some Granaries or start whipping out units as soon as I transition to Slavery?
Somewhat situational. I'll whip before Granary early on in order to get Settlers/Workers out and defended ASAP. And once your empire is established, a Granary should usually be the first build in new cities anyway so there isn't anything pre-Granary to whip anyway.

Ironically for a self-described builder, it sounds like you're building way too many units! (Though the best solution may well be to use them up instead of building fewer.)

2 SoD's are nice coz it will speed the war up, but I think your first war(s) should have 1 SoD as building 2 SoD's will take too much time. Also when going to war try to have an advantage on them with more advanced units for example. If you go for an early rush attack once you got 10 axeman, coz making more will only allow your opponent to rex and build more units. Make sure you attack fast!

Once the first SoD is ready, send it to war. Keep building units while the first SoD is marching through the enemy's lands. Either the units that you are building at this point will be replacements for SoD #1 or they will start forming SoD #2.

Depending on the geography of the map, you might need 2 SoD just to prevent a waste of time by moving the other SoD all the way back across the map.

For example, lets say you are playing on a map where your civ is located where a pennisula meets the mainland, and there are two civs further out on that pennisula. Those two civs would be my first target since conquering those lands would free up the backside defense. While SoD#1 is at the very end of the pennisula and marching back, SoD#2 is now launching a war going into the mainland.

I personally never research archery


Agreed. Archers are relatively useless when you can get axemen just as early. Plus archery is a dead-end tech.

War is going to be a unavoidable on occasion, and you must become competent at it to be succesful, but bear in mind that building a huge stack and marching into enemy territory toward their nearest city isn't always the best idea.

Always scout your enemy first using spies, or if you have OB, anything handy with mobility(scout, chariot, whatever.)

Some civs build lots of units. Some don't. If you Dow someone like Shaka or Alex, and just charge your stack into his territory, your SoD might not make it to his nearest city alive. When in enemy territory, they can use their roads to attack you from a distance, you can't. In those situations, it's best to DoW, and then let them send their SoD into your territory where you can use your roads to strike the first blow. Once you've defeated the core of their army, you'll have a much easier time moving through their territory.

Agreed. Archers are relatively useless when you can get axemen just as early. Plus archery is a dead-end tech.

I only recently started playing this way. If you don't have metals, though, and only horse resource, you probably want to grab archery. Otherwise, it can be put off until Feudalism. Longbows are too cheap and powerful as city/hill resource defense to pass up IMO.

DoW, and then let them send their SoD into your territory where you can use your roads to strike the first blow. Once you've defeated the core of their army, you'll have a much easier time moving through their territory.
Does that always work? IE the aggressive war-monger AI, you DoW and they will send their stack in at you? I've GOT to try this in my next game.

Does that always work? IE the aggressive war-monger AI, you DoW and they will send their stack in at you? I've GOT to try this in my next game.

I have yet to see it not work against the aggressive unit spamming AIs. Even in situations where my cultural border was pressed up against an AI city, I've moved my stack next to the city, and waited a few turns for his forces to accumulate there, and then declared.

The key is getting a crack at his stack with your seige before he can get a crack at yours with his.

The key is getting a crack at his stack with your seige before he can get a crack at yours with his.
That makes a lot of sense. Won't a unit spamming AI continue to whip/draft/build units until the end of time, though? IE I wipe out Shaka's stack and start my advancement on a city, won't he whip units in all his cities? I'm new to difficulties where the AI actually builds a decent amount of units so I don't know how the AI behaves given this situation.

That makes a lot of sense. Won't a unit spamming AI continue to whip/draft/build units until the end of time, though? IE I wipe out Shaka's stack and start my advancement on a city, won't he whip units in all his cities? I'm new to difficulties where the AI actually builds a decent amount of units so I don't know how the AI behaves given this situation.

Yes, they will continue to spam units but once you've defeated the core of his army in the initial phases of the war, they'll only be coming at you peacemeal. Your stack of 40 units will have a much easier time moving through his territory only being attacked by a handful of units at a time.

AIs stop whipping once a city gets down to pop1.

I rarely have more than one defender per city. For a stack I'd probably have 4-6 city raider types, 4-6 cats, couple of stack defenders (shock axe and a spear). I'd anticipate losing a couple of cats per city so keep rebuilding those along with some garrison troops (the cheaper the better). Once the defenders are suitably pulverised by seige you won't lose many of your city raider types. It really helps to have a medic in your stack and heal up units between battles coz injured units are weak units.

Does that always work? IE the aggressive war-monger AI, you DoW and they will send their stack in at you? I've GOT to try this in my next game.

I use this tactic especially if I have the Great Wall. Double GG points for all fights inside my borders.

I have to say this is one of the more helpful threads I've read here.

Being fairly new myself, one of my biggest problems is not realizing that the AI Civs have the same restrictions I have. I'm always trying harder to rush things, get buidlings I don't need, beelining to techs that are not necerassary for the era I am in, but at the same time, neglecting other techs.

Watch your neighbors power from time and time. If they have a growing power, that means build defense a bit. You don't need too many offensive units except for defensive attack units like catapults. They can severely weaken massive invading armies while some of your offensive units can pick them off one by one. Also build alot of cottages, they can support your large army.

I have to say this is one of the more helpful threads I've read here.

Being fairly new myself, one of my biggest problems is not realizing that the AI Civs have the same restrictions I have. I'm always trying harder to rush things, get buidlings I don't need, beelining to techs that are not necerassary for the era I am in, but at the same time, neglecting other techs.

I have to agree. This thread turned out even better and more informative than I'd hoped.

I'd say the biggest thing I took from it was to stop being such a pansy and look to take the AI by the throat a little more.

With my newfound knowledge I decided to start a new game. I started on Warlord as I figured since that's my usual level it'd be easier to judge my improvement than trying to move up just yet. I also decided I was going to go for Domination victory right from the start, pick a non-Financial, non-Organized leader, and not found a Religion. So I grabbed Boudica and began a new game.

I waste no time, I resisted my builder temptations to get Granaries, Libraries, and Temples up everywhere before doing anything else. I found Iron, I connected the Iron, and I started spitting out mass Gallic Warriors from all my cities. (the hut right next to my starting location that immediately popped a 2nd Settler when I settled my first certainly helped speed things up...)

Results so far? Phenominal. It's 1030AD, I've completely wiped out 2 of my opponents and a third, Bismark, is down to his last city. Huyna Capac decided, apparently out of sheer terror at the ruthless bloodshed I was inflicting upon my other neighbors, to become my Vassal. In addition I've lost exactly ONE battle so far (ironically enough that one loss was a Spearman... against a Horse Archer, go figure.) so my units are becoming crazy elite. I've got 2 level 5s and 3 level 4s. Gallic Warriors are FIERCE, I took out Surveyaman(sp?) within 20 turns without a single loss, turned around and took out Tokugawa immediately after, again no losses. Spit out around 10 Catapults and turned my eye to Bismark, he's on his last leg. His last ditch effort to put a settler on a Galley and sail away met an unfortunate demise.

After finishing Bismark I'll probably pull back and recharge a bit, of all the turns so far I've spent maybe 20 NOT at War and my economy is starting to show the effects. The fact that with so few losses I was able to stop production in my 2nd Production City (a beauty of a coastal production behemoth 1/4 Grassland, 1/4 Grassland Hills, 1/2 Water with just enough forest to crack out Maoi Statues in a hurry) to build The Colossus helped but I need to get some markets and courthouses up.

My only regret is that my Capital is one of the finest potential GP farms I've ever seen (TONS of Flood Plains, 3 mountains, nearly every tile in its fat cross touching a river and screaming for Watermills) and I'm probably going to win a Domination victory LONG before I ever get to maximize it's potential....

Thanks again guys, now I can't wait to put the finishing touches on this game and start a new one on Noble. I've grown to like this whole warmongering thing so much, I might just go ahead and pick a warmonger right from the start on Noble.

I have to agree. This thread turned out even better and more informative than I'd hoped.

I'd say the biggest thing I took from it was to stop being such a pansy and look to take the AI by the throat a little more.

With my newfound knowledge I decided to start a new game. I started on Warlord as I figured since that's my usual level it'd be easier to judge my improvement than trying to move up just yet. I also decided I was going to go for Domination victory right from the start, pick a non-Financial, non-Organized leader, and not found a Religion. So I grabbed Boudica and began a new game.

I waste no time, I resisted my builder temptations to get Granaries, Libraries, and Temples up everywhere before doing anything else. I found Iron, I connected the Iron, and I started spitting out mass Gallic Warriors from all my cities. (the hut right next to my starting location that immediately popped a 2nd Settler when I settled my first certainly helped speed things up...)

Results so far? Phenominal. It's 1030AD, I've completely wiped out 2 of my opponents and a third, Bismark, is down to his last city. Huyna Capac decided, apparently out of sheer terror at the ruthless bloodshed I was inflicting upon my other neighbors, to become my Vassal. In addition I've lost exactly ONE battle so far (ironically enough that one loss was a Spearman... against a Horse Archer, go figure.) so my units are becoming crazy elite. I've got 2 level 5s and 3 level 4s. Gallic Warriors are FIERCE, I took out Surveyaman(sp?) within 20 turns without a single loss, turned around and took out Tokugawa immediately after, again no losses. Spit out around 10 Catapults and turned my eye to Bismark, he's on his last leg. His last ditch effort to put a settler on a Galley and sail away met an unfortunate demise.

After finishing Bismark I'll probably pull back and recharge a bit, of all the turns so far I've spent maybe 20 NOT at War and my economy is starting to show the effects. The fact that with so few losses I was able to stop production in my 2nd Production City (a beauty of a coastal production behemoth 1/4 Grassland, 1/4 Grassland Hills, 1/2 Water with just enough forest to crack out Maoi Statues in a hurry) to build The Colossus helped but I need to get some markets and courthouses up.

My only regret is that my Capital is one of the finest potential GP farms I've ever seen (TONS of Flood Plains, 3 mountains, nearly every tile in its fat cross touching a river and screaming for Watermills) and I'm probably going to win a Domination victory LONG before I ever get to maximize it's potential....

Thanks again guys, now I can't wait to put the finishing touches on this game and start a new one on Noble. I've grown to like this whole warmongering thing so much, I might just go ahead and pick a warmonger right from the start on Noble.

Wow, good stuff. You did alot better than I did. I started playing using Hannibal on Warlord, and things were good at the beginning, I led in points by a large margin (I know some don't think this means much but I actually don't mind a points game). The 2 huts I popped at the very beginning gave me 2 settlers. Problem was, I did have a chance to research the appropriate Techs.

Anyways, I may have settled my settlers too quickly because I found myself with 5 or 6 cities, and not one was a production city. I mean, we're talking 5 or 6 pop points, and base production of 7 or 8. I did have Iron, but that was the only productive tile. I really thought I did something wrong but I just couldn't see which city would be my production city.

Consequently, I fell behind producing units and had trouble with some barbs, etc...

So a couple of points:

1) I learned that I should be to quick to settle settlers if I haven't had a chance to research the appropriate techs (Bronze/Iron working, Animal Husbandry, Agriculture)...

2) Is it just possible that I just got dealt a crappy map or position? How does one deal with low production at the beginning? I mean, Caesar in one city had like 6 or 7 Praetorians.

3) What does "12 free units" mean at the Warlord level (8 free units at Noble). Is it the number of units that don't cost anything in terms of maintenance?

Wow, good stuff. You did alot better than I did. I started playing using Hannibal on Warlord, and things were good at the beginning, I led in points by a large margin (I know some don't think this means much but I actually don't mind a points game). The 2 huts I popped at the very beginning gave me 2 settlers. Problem was, I did have a chance to research the appropriate Techs.

Anyways, I may have settled my settlers too quickly because I found myself with 5 or 6 cities, and not one was a production city. I mean, we're talking 5 or 6 pop points, and base production of 7 or 8. I did have Iron, but that was the only productive tile. I really thought I did something wrong but I just couldn't see which city would be my production city.

Consequently, I fell behind producing units and had trouble with some barbs, etc...

So a couple of points:

1) I learned that I should be to quick to settle settlers if I haven't had a chance to research the appropriate techs (Bronze/Iron working, Animal Husbandry, Agriculture)...

2) Is it just possible that I just got dealt a crappy map or position? How does one deal with low production at the beginning? I mean, Caesar in one city had like 6 or 7 Praetorians.

3) What does "12 free units" mean at the Warlord level (8 free units at Noble). Is it the number of units that don't cost anything in terms of maintenance?

I'm sure some of the other guys here can give better advice but I'll give my thoughts...

1) One thing I've learned is never be afraid to sit on a free Settler you popped from a Goody hut for a little while. It's not like they're going to disappear if you don't use them right away. It's a rare thing to pop 2 Settlers from huts but when I do I'll usually settle one right away then hold onto the second until I've established a bit of infrastructure.

2) Absolutely possible. The same thing happened to me but I got a little lucky. While my capitol was, as I said, one of the best potential GP farms I've ever seen and my 2nd city was some prime real estate for a Commercial powerhouse I really had no potential Production cities at first. The fact that I HAD to settle my 3rd city in a terrible position or risk having no Iron OR Copper didn't help. I lucked out because Surveyaman's capital had amazing production potential (that's the coastal city I mentioned in my previous post.) Had I not snatched that city early I would've had a MUCH harder time waging war effectively because I had no real possibilities for a production city anywhere either.

3) It's the number of Military units you don't have to pay any maintenance for, you get a certain number based on level and Vassalage provides 9 more if you use that civic. It makes a difference as having a large army can get expensive in a hurry.

1) I learned that I should be to quick to settle settlers if I haven't had a chance to research the appropriate techs (Bronze/Iron working, Animal Husbandry, Agriculture)... You don't get any more free settlers or workers in huts once you hit noble anyway. so don't get too hung up on how to use them :p. I would probably use them to settle good land, like grassland rivers or food heavy hill regions and worry about resources with the first settler I build. A new city with no tiles to improve (If its that early :eek:) can just build a worker like your capital would.
2) Is it just possible that I just got dealt a crappy map or position? How does one deal with low production at the beginning? I mean, Caesar in one city had like 6 or 7 Praetorians.
Poor production means your going to have to use slavery a lot, make sure to settle near food resources. This is something that is best to do anyway, but the need for slavery makes it more important (good practice ;))
The 6-7 Praets was most probably his main stack :lol:
3) What does "12 free units" mean at the Warlord level (8 free units at Noble). Is it the number of units that don't cost anything in terms of maintenance?
Correct, they are maintenance free units.

1) I learned that I should be to quick to settle settlers if I haven't had a chance to research the appropriate techs (Bronze/Iron working, Animal Husbandry, Agriculture)...

2) Is it just possible that I just got dealt a crappy map or position? How does one deal with low production at the beginning? I mean, Caesar in one city had like 6 or 7 Praetorians.

3) What does "12 free units" mean at the Warlord level (8 free units at Noble). Is it the number of units that don't cost anything in terms of maintenance?

1) It also depends on how much of the map you have exposed. I would go ahead and pair them with a unit or two, and settle them as a blockade on a good location. Since you don't have to waste turns producing them, you can spend that time marching out a bit.

2) Yes, you can get a crappy location. Someone mentioned that the starting location is supposed to have four resources, but they can by late game or all luxury resources. These really don't help the early game.

the "at least two food" resource advice is horrid.

forces regeneration and pigeon holing- leaves a player at a loss in Multiplayer.
Which is why i have no faith in walkthroughs, other than as fiction as entertainment.

the "at least two food" resource advice is horrid.

forces regeneration and pigeon holing- leaves a player at a loss in Multiplayer.
Which is why i have no faith in walkthroughs, other than as fiction as entertainment.
I say never reload unless you're playing a roleplaying type game, practicing a particular strategy, or start with tundra/desert in your BFC. The map generator usually gives good resources. You may not be able to see them at first, though.

You don't really need 2 food resources if you start with a few floodplains in your BFC. I prefer 1 6:food: resource and 3 or 4 floodplains. Slap in some hills and a metal resource/horse and I'm a happy camper.

I used to hate to raze cities and then would get whacked with maintenance costs because of it. Keep in mind, the enemy is going to be mad at you anyways..don't worry about the negative diplomacy from razing. You may not wipe them off the map, but you can knock them down a few pegs to keep you in a commanding lead while you work on a religious, culture, or space victory. Heck, if you pillage enough you win the Conquest victory.

But, keep a good city if it is close enough not to completely cripple your economy. Esspecially a capital.

I have to agree. This thread turned out even better and more informative than I'd hoped.

I'd say the biggest thing I took from it was to stop being such a pansy and look to take the AI by the throat a little more.

With my newfound knowledge I decided to start a new game.

Congrats SN, sounds like you've learned a lot quickly. Keep in mind moving up to Noble it probably won't be as smooth-sailing. Noble is the level where you're given no bonuses over the AI and everyone is on the same ground. With Prince the AI starts getting bonuses over you.

But you'll always be smarter than the AI.

I've moved up from Warlords -> Noble, Noble -> Prince, and Prince-> Monarch thanks to these forums. By far, the hardest movement was from Warlord->Noble.

Congrats SN, sounds like you've learned a lot quickly. Keep in mind moving up to Noble it probably won't be as smooth-sailing. Noble is the level where you're given no bonuses over the AI and everyone is on the same ground. With Prince the AI starts getting bonuses over you.

But you'll always be smarter than the AI.

Oh believe me I know. I decided to play one more game on Warlord simply because I figured it would be easier to guage how much I've improved, if at all, playing on the level I'm used to. I know once I try to make the move up to Noble again it will be a whole new ball game. It took a good 5-10 games before I could win with any consistency on Warlord, I expect the same if not worse from Noble but after all the advice in this thread and the success of my last game I definitely feel I'm ready for that next step.

Then I want to pick up the pace a bit, going at my current rate I'll be playing on Diety sometime around the release of Civilization 8. :lol:

Oh believe me I know. I decided to play one more game on Warlord simply because I figured it would be easier to guage how much I've improved, if at all, playing on the level I'm used to. I know once I try to make the move up to Noble again it will be a whole new ball game. It took a good 5-10 games before I could win with any consistency on Warlord, I expect the same if not worse from Noble but after all the advice in this thread and the success of my last game I definitely feel I'm ready for that next step.

Then I want to pick up the pace a bit, going at my current rate I'll be playing on Diety sometime around the release of Civilization 8. :lol:

If you dominated that much on warlord you'll do fine on noble. You just have to maintain discipline on key strategies like city specialization, aggressiveness, warding off builderitis, taking advantage of GPs via your GP farm, trading a lot, being smart about which techs you research, etc.

And understanding workers workers workers. When you conquer/REX, you should have 1.5-2 workers per city to quickly improve tiles.

On noble, you should be able to achieve tech superiority without tech trading much by the time you hit Theology given what you've learned so far.

One more question for you guys - what is your stance regarding Holy Cities that are far away from your empire and going to be extremely expensive? Keep or Raze? I'm going to be facing this problem soon. Once I put the finishing touches on Pacal and move on to Ramsese I'll have a decision to make. If it was Buddhism, Hinduism, or Judaism I wouldn't care so much as they're spread around pretty far and if I can get a Great Prophet (which would be pretty easy to do by switching my GP Farm from Engineers to Priests) and pop a Shrine they'd likely pay for themselves. It's not though - it's Taoism, it's been spread to like 4 cities(most of which I'll be Razing), and the city is in a horrible location (I believe I counted 3 mountains and 1 Desert in it's FC.) Should I just say screw the Holy City and raze it? Or try to figure out a way to make it worth keeping?

Another issue I'm likely to face is AP resolutions screwing with my gameplan. The AP is controlled by Churchill, he and Ramsese both have Judaism as their SR and have managed to spread it to 2 of my cities. I'm about 99% certain that once I DoW on Ramsese the next AP resolution to come up will be trying to end my war against him. Should I just defy the resolution and march on? The 2 hammer/turn loss wouldn't hurt me as the only 2 cities that have Judaism are commerce cities with crappy production anyway. The only diplomatic relations I care about are Huyna but he's my Vassal and I keep him on a short leash anyway (I make sure he's just far enough behind, tech-wise, to make him think twice about trying to declare independence.) My biggest concern would be the unhappiness because by that time I'm going to be in the midst of a VERY long period of War and War Weariness will probably start taking it's toll.

Thoughts?

As long as good advice is being dished out...;)

What's the comment idea when new Civs are met early in the game? Peace or no peace? Do you go for peace and when you are ready to Axe rush, declare war?

I have always gone for peace. Any thoughts?

And understanding workers workers workers. When you conquer/REX, you should have 1.5-2 workers per city to quickly improve tiles.

On noble, you should be able to achieve tech superiority without tech trading much by the time you hit Theology given what you've learned so far.

This is a good point. I never thought of tech trading ever (one of my many deficiencies that I am working on :). But early in the game, I never really thought of it since I was researching what I needed and the other Civs never really had anything of value.

As long as good advice is being dished out...;)

What's the comment idea when new Civs are met early in the game? Peace or no peace? Do you go for peace and when you are ready to Axe rush, declare war?

I have always gone for peace. Any thoughts?

I always pick peace at first, locate their capital, and make my decision from there. If they're too close for comfort I'll start prepping for War and DoW when I'm good and ready. No point starting a war when you're not ready for one yet and likely don't even know where your enemy's empire is located.

I always pick peace at first, locate their capital, and make my decision from there. If they're too close for comfort I'll start prepping for War and DoW when I'm good and ready. No point starting a war when you're not ready for one yet and likely don't even know where your enemy's empire is located.
Bingo. A premature declaration simply lets the AI know that you have violent intentions and they will prepare an army. By the time you reach them, they will probably whoop ur butt. Always peace first, recon/prepare, then declare when on their borders. Give them no warning.

BUMPing in hopes of some answers to my last 2 questions.

One more question for you guys - what is your stance regarding Holy Cities that are far away from your empire and going to be extremely expensive? Keep or Raze?


If the religion in question is spread far & wide, then it's possible the holy city more than covers its own maintenance and earns you extra gold. If the religion is sparse and the city is otherwise ordinary, I'd probably raze it to save costs and the hassle of defending a far away location.

I can't answer your AP question because I'm playing Vanilla.

Re Holy City with 3 mountains and a desert. What are the other 16 tiles like? You don't have to worry about the naff tiles until the city gets to 16 pop. Having another religion gives you an option to spread it for more happiness under Free Religion as well as shrine income if you happen to have a Great Prophet hanging around doing nothing.

Re AP. If you're going to war then you'll probably be acquiring more cities with Judaism. You either live with the misery, live with the enforced peace or spread Judaism vigorously and adopt it as as your state religion so you get to be the next resident.

I always pick peace at first, locate their capital, and make my decision from there. If they're too close for comfort I'll start prepping for War and DoW when I'm good and ready. No point starting a war when you're not ready for one yet and likely don't even know where your enemy's empire is located.

I posed this question in another thread but I thought I'd try here.

I amassed my army near my enemy's capital (we're not enemies yet!). My stack was prepared based on what I thought was protecting the capital city. Then I declare war, my stack gets put back in my cultural boundaries (actually it took me a while to figure where the stack was placed), and then after I make my way back to the capital, the composition of defenders is no longer the same and I get slaughtered.

So there are no sneak attacks allowed? War can only be declared from outside the enemy's territory?

So there are no sneak attacks allowed? War can only be declared from outside the enemy's territory?

No, you can't put a stack in enemy territory and then declare war. You can build a stack right outside their cultural borders as a surprise attack but you can't just put a giant stack next to their capital and the DoW on them. That would be way too unfair and no one in their right mind would sign an Open Borders agreement if it was allowed.

On noble, I'd generally only rush if you meet someone within the first sixteen turns and their capital is within ten spaces of your capital. It's only really a good idea if they're close by and you've got the resource to do it.

Other tips.

1) build a worker first, then a couple, maybe three or four warriors, depending what production you have, then a settler then a worker. Don't try to build a third city just for the sake of it. Assess the situation, wait until your econmy can support it or you see a good opportunity. Probably the best place to settle that second city are near a multiple of different resources (three or more) or near gold, silver gems.

2) Try to place cities in a manner that hems in your opponents. If this means settling inland first, do so. Recognise when the PC does the same, regard them as hostile. Don't ignore what the AI does. Keep a close eye on your power graphs to assess the situation. The AI sometimes poorly defends new cities. If you can take them, you add to your own power while decreasing theirs.

3) Choose maybe one or two buildings that are of key importance for each 50 turn period, and don't worry about other buildings until you start getting problems or can effectively use them or don't need more troops. Why build a granary in a city that has little food and won't grow enough to cause unhealthiness? If you find you suddenly need a building, whip it out. The trick is to balance your need for military with your need to expand and develop.

4) different tactics work better with different civs. A cottage economy is better with financial. Specialists work better with philosophical and industrious. You can often forgo monuments with creative and just build libraries instead.

5) don't always rush to capture. Sometimes harassment can be better than invasion, hampering expansion and development by capturing settlers and ripping up mines and decimating cottages. That civ won't want to trade with others you trade with. On lower levels be confident enough to demand tribute.

6) Consider your problems and seek to rectify them as soon as possible. Underdeveloped terrain, build more workers. AI has different religion, build some missionaries to sort that out. Poor tech rate? build some libraries and cottages. Continually seek to improve your situation.

7) Know your opponents. Don't get caught out by being unprepared.

8) Use the whip, especially once your cities are large enough for your econmy not to be damaged by using it and you have monarchy.

On noble, I'd generally only rush if you meet someone within the first sixteen turns and their capital is within ten spaces of your capital. It's only really a good idea if they're close by and you've got the resource to do it.

Other tips.

1) build a worker first, then a couple, maybe three or four warriors, depending what production you have, then a settler then a worker. Don't try to build a third city just for the sake of it. Assess the situation, wait until your econmy can support it or you see a good opportunity. Probably the best place to settle that second city are near a multiple of different resources (three or more) or near gold, silver gems.

2) Try to place cities in a manner that hems in your opponents. If this means settling inland first, do so. Recognise when the PC does the same, regard them as hostile. Don't ignore what the AI does. Keep a close eye on your power graphs to assess the situation. The AI sometimes poorly defends new cities. If you can take them, you add to your own power while decreasing theirs.

3) Choose maybe one or two buildings that are of key importance for each 50 turn period, and don't worry about other buildings until you start getting problems or can effectively use them or don't need more troops. Why build a granary in a city that has little food and won't grow enough to cause unhealthiness? If you find you suddenly need a building, whip it out. The trick is to balance your need for military with your need to expand and develop.

4) different tactics work better with different civs. A cottage economy is better with financial. Specialists work better with philosophical and industrious. You can often forgo monuments with creative and just build libraries instead.

5) don't always rush to capture. Sometimes harassment can be better than invasion, hampering expansion and development by capturing settlers and ripping up mines and decimating cottages. That civ won't want to trade with others you trade with. On lower levels be confident enough to demand tribute.

6) Consider your problems and seek to rectify them as soon as possible. Underdeveloped terrain, build more workers. AI has different religion, build some missionaries to sort that out. Poor tech rate? build some libraries and cottages. Continually seek to improve your situation.

7) Know your opponents. Don't get caught out by being unprepared.

8) Use the whip, especially once your cities are large enough for your econmy not to be damaged by using it and you have monarchy.

Thanks cracked. Good advice.

How do some of you decide to expand with a 3rd or 4th or 5th city? What is a good timeline to follow if any? I understand all about the maintenance costs and that REXing can cause you economy to crash.

I'm just wondering because settlers are pretty expensive and the cities don't grow when they are being built. Do I wait until my initial city is a good size, which means more workable tiles, which means the settlers (workers) come out faster? If I wait for a size 3 or 4 city, I run the risk of losing out to good land to other Civs? I understand the concept of trying to expand towards the other civs to cut off their access to land, but waiting too long to send out settlers may result in not having good land to settle on.

However, a size 1 or 2 city doesn't produce enough and it make take a longer time to produce a settler.

For the first city, the answer, as always, is 'it depends'. It is definitely more efficient to grow to size 4 or 5 and then build a settler - it's a question of whether you desperately need to get a certain site before the AI as to whether you can afford to do that.

Most of the time, I'll grow to 4 or 5, and whip the settler if I desperately need the city ASAP.

For other cities, if there's good land then expand as fast as possible. If you have 5 or 6 good city sites nearby, as long as you have some means with which to pull your economy out of the drain (usually cottages) then you can afford to expand as fast as you practically can.

Growing to happy cap and then expanding generally leads to quicker long term expansion while small populations 3-4 generally lead to a few quicker city sites followed by slower long term expansion. Learn to balance needs vs efficiency. Whipping settlers should generally be avoided unless coastal w/ high food and low production everywhere else.

Siege should generally be used to Kamikaze the units inside which lets the rest of your units easily mop up. War should be as quick as possible so you face the fewest amount of enemy reinforcements. I make an active effort to bypass city culture/walls and directly attack the enemy units inside - speed is of the essence and 3 catapults per city is usually enough to severely damage enemy units.

The only time I will bombard the city is when it is on a hill and has quite a few units inside or if they have LBs and I have nothing more than catapults/trebs. If I have cannons there is no need to bombard - it also wastes time.

[QUOTE=yanner39;8234396] How do some of you decide to expand with a 3rd or 4th or 5th city? What is a good timeline to follow if any? I understand all about the maintenance costs and that REXing can cause you economy to crash.

QUOTE]

The best way to judge it is by your tech rate when the slider is set at it's highest before losing money.

On noble I tend to build the 3rd city when I have a tech rate of 15 bulbs a turn.
I build the fourth when I have 20 bulbs a turn. This happens really quite quickly (usually within the first 75 turns at least, sometimes sooner). I used to just knock out four cities by the 100th turn, but doing so without considering the strength of your economy normally results in poorer tech rates.

Starting techs are cheap, so you dont't really need to much more than that.

This ensures that I'm teching at a fairly decent rate. Get a gold/silver/gems mine worked and you can normally gaurantee this within the first 50 turns. That so, I'll put the settlers in on the build lists in my cities so I don't forget. on noble the AI doesn't really expand too fast. SO hemming them in with the first helps you secure land for the 3rd and fourth.

Even bad play and position can normally ensure 30 bulbs a turn by the 100th turn. Good play and position and you'll get there sooner. By the time you get to the 200th turn, you can easily treble that rate.

You'd need a really bad starting position not to be able to build at least four cities. If you find you can't build more by the time you get to 30 :bulbs:them then that's the time to build more units to go to war.