Open Role Play Challenge: Atlantis! [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

madscientist

Jun 29, 2009, 07:19 PM

Welcome to the next of my open RPC games, where I post a save, set you up with a challenge, and get to sit back watch everyone have fun! These games are for you to play out and enjoy! Have fun.

Here we have the mighty mythical kingdom of Atlantis, led by the oldest of leader, the God-King Gilgamesh! Lush and properous is the land of Atlantis, and separated from the outside world! Yes, Atlantis is isolated in the middle of an ocean! It is paradise, however there are chalenges to keep it a paradise and away from those jealous of Atlantean Glory!

The rules of the game

1) You are isolated! And you must stay that way! This means no Atlantean citizan can step foot on another land, and you also must keep enemy forces off your Utopia.

2) Because of rule #1 you are limited to peaceful victory condtions. NO army may leave the shores of your continent, and this includes missionaries, great people and spies!

3) However, you are entitled to build as large a navy as your see fit, providing NO troops enter the ships!

4) Otherwise all normal trade is allowed!

5) Being the advanced Atlanteans, you do have a superior "edge" over your opponents, but you must find this yourself! (unless you open my spoilers below!)

For those who want a littel "foresight" and hints as to what to ecpect, peer into my spoilers, if you dare

There are two other continents in addition to your paradise

1) Land of the Zealots include Isabella, Saladin, and Justinian!

2) Land of the War-Mongers include Genghis Khan, Shaka, and Tokugawa!

There is NO uranium in teh world, thus this is also a test to see if there is NO global warming if there is not Nuclear power plants!

There are only 2 sources of oil, and you have them both!

So let's take a peak at PARADISE

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/Open%20Challenges/Atlantis0000.jpg

You still have the same abilities as Summeria, so you are Creative and Protective and start with the wheel and agriculture.

May the blessings of the Atlantean Gods be with you.

One final note, please remember to post games in quotes!

PS: Thanks to TheMeInTeam's excellent article on saving games as worldbuilders and modifying the worldbuilder save! This way you do NOT know your rivals and can adjust game speed and difficulty to taste. I made no modifications to the leaders bonus's though. You need unzip the file, I suggest right clicking and using the extract files under 7-zip, and if you have any difficulty go to MIT's thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322396

DMOC

Jun 29, 2009, 07:28 PM

Thanks to MIT's excellent article on saving games

Yes, thanks to Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)'s excellent article on saving games, I can play this! :goodjob:

Seriously, I will attempt to do this now that I have little to do (it's summer)!

Owen Glyndwr

Jun 29, 2009, 07:34 PM

Yes, thanks to Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)'s excellent article on saving games, I can play this! :goodjob:

Seriously, I will attempt to do this now that I have little to do (it's summer)!

Good to see you're still posting things, typos galore! Thanks Mad, I might try this one actually! :goodjob:

madscientist

Jun 29, 2009, 07:45 PM

Yes, thanks to Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)'s excellent article on saving games, I can play this! :goodjob:

Seriously, I will attempt to do this now that I have little to do (it's summer)!

Proper credit has been given to TheMeInTeam instead of the Massechucetts of technology scooping his work! :lol:

TheMeInTeam

Jun 29, 2009, 11:39 PM

Proper credit has been given to TheMeInTeam instead of the Massechucetts of technology scooping his work! :lol:

I've been (deliberately) confused with worse things before :lol:.

I grew kind of fond of isolation over time with all the LHC games...still not my preferred start but for a person like me it's very much a change of pace.

The rules are interesting. If an AI goes for culture it will be a pain.

Anyway what difficulty is this INTENDED to be played? I'll probably just do EMP since that's the standard for your RPC's lately.

Steve250

Jun 30, 2009, 03:55 AM

A couple of things to note about this game; for some reason the final game date is set at 1910, I'm not sure if this was cause I was playing on epic speed or some other reason.

Also, it appears the ai can still get uranium through the random mine event unless you missed one:mischief:.

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 06:40 AM

@ Steve250! Spoilers my friend! The second sentence belongs in spoilers!

I may have missed a uranium source and probably did! I am also aware that teh AI may "pop" a Uranium source, but so is the risk and challenge. Atlantis may yet fall into the sea!

Not sure about the date thing. I probably fouled up the worldbuilder save once again! But hey with 52 leaders to play as Open Challenges I figure I'lll get it right by the last one (maybe :hmm:)

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 06:42 AM

@ TMIT

I believe I set it up for Monarch. I am currently playing it out in emperor/standard speed. My guess is that you could handle Immortal if you wanted.

Sian

Jun 30, 2009, 07:07 AM

fixed the WB save for you MS :p

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 07:09 AM

fixed the WB save for you MS :p

What would I do without you people! :bowdown:

r_rolo1

Jun 30, 2009, 07:38 AM

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 07:53 AM

You would :eek: than :faint: than :run: :p

Just for the record
MaxTurns=500
or any other number besides 0 will set a hardcoded limit of turns to the game. And you may find that 500 turns on Epic or Marathon speed a little wanting ;)

:cry: What did I do :cry:

Hmmmm, perhaps nest open RPC I slap up a save and let everyone else make the changes!

Sian

Jun 30, 2009, 08:31 AM

hmm ... enemy forces ... does that include the stray Caravel with Missionary in it?

huerfanista

Jun 30, 2009, 08:37 AM

Unfortunately, I ran into the maxturns problem in the late 19th century on epic speed, and I'll be about 10 turns from a cultural win (around 1920AD) before it runs out. :cry:

Fortunately, my play was unbelievably sloppy for a culture win, so I'll play again. :lol:

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 08:40 AM

hmm ... enemy forces ... does that include the stray Caravel with Missionary in it?

Yep. Missionaries may not leave paradise! Your caravels may proceed to taunt the enemy as mush as you want!

Sian

Jun 30, 2009, 08:45 AM

the other way around MS ... other's Missionaries :p

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 08:47 AM

the other way around MS ... other's Missionaries :p

Yeah, that's fine. Atlanteans are rather open minded and tolerant of others faith. In fact nothing wrong with opening up the Atleantean Tourist business for any foreign units providing tehy are not trying to burn your cities down!

Sian

Jun 30, 2009, 08:49 AM

goodie ... was affaid that i had to keep one of my cities without religion :p

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 08:59 AM

You would :eek: than :faint: than :run: :p

Just for the record
MaxTurns=500
or any other number besides 0 will set a hardcoded limit of turns to the game. And you may find that 500 turns on Epic or Marathon speed a little wanting ;)

Ah, I reread TMITs article and see my error :suicide:

JTMacc99

Jun 30, 2009, 09:15 AM

Never mind!

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 09:19 AM

Here's the Zip file with the max turns coding turned to = 0. I fired it up on Epic and it says that I am in turn 0/750, so I am assuming I did the right thing. However, this is based on the first one and not the Sian posted. What is the difference between the two?

Most likely I screwed up teh first one and Sian corrected my mistake!

Sian

Jun 30, 2009, 09:59 AM

the differnce between the one i posted and MS's was that i did just what you did :P

Monarch/marathon

just got to 1000ad ... met everyone (Izzy by border contact due to extended view by Optics) and have a massive lead ... running heavy Scientists in half my cities and heavy Cottage in the rest, and my army consist of 7 Warriors, one in each city ... having a hefty techlead due to binary research, where i now have just around 100 beakers when on 0% ... planing to continue teching and trying to pit the different civs against each other while going tech my way to a Space Victory (onwards and upwards towards the divinity)

JTMacc99

Jun 30, 2009, 10:01 AM

the differnce between the one i posted and MS's was that i did just what you did :P
Heh. I was just taking a look at it and noticing that myself. While you were responding here, I was removing my post.

Izmir Stinger

Jun 30, 2009, 12:08 PM

I am going to give this a go on Epic/Monarch. I play normal(ish) games on Epic/Emperor, but i figured the restrictions would make it more chalenging and I should tone it down a notch. I have one question about your rules:

The rules of the game

1) You are isolated! And you must stay that way! This means no Atlantean citizan can step foot on another land, and you also must keep enemy forces off your Utopia.

Does the bolded potion mean that if an enemy lands troops on Atlantis I have failed, or where you simply emphasizing that it is important to keep them away?

I've played just over two hundred turns and I can see someone's borders on the edge of the fog'o'war. It looks suspiciously like Isabella's beige color. She is close enough to affect an amphibious landing with no notice, and likely to because we Atlanteans are no doubt vile heathens in her eyes. If (when) this happens, do i have to sink all her troop transports en-route, or do i simply have to refrain from any non-naval engagements outside my borders?

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 12:44 PM

I am going to give this a go on Epic/Monarch. I play normal(ish) games on Epic/Emperor, but i figured the restrictions would make it more chalenging and I should tone it down a notch. I have one question about your rules:

Does the bolded potion mean that if an enemy lands troops on Atlantis I have failed, or where you simply emphasizing that it is important to keep them away?

I've played just over two hundred turns and I can see someone's borders on the edge of the fog'o'war. It looks suspiciously like Isabella's beige color. She is close enough to affect an amphibious landing with no notice, and likely to because we Atlanteans are no doubt vile heathens in her eyes. If (when) this happens, do i have to sink all her troop transports en-route, or do i simply have to refrain from any non-naval engagements outside my borders?

As all RPCs, rules are meant to be bent (Gilgamesh is NOT a rule breaker IMHO).

Witht hat said, if you are attacked by an AI I expect a none-stop war to repel the invaders. However, the game was designed for you to keep a naval block to prevent such an event!

Now

Every RPC has a challenge. Yes Isabella is stinkingly close. Suffice to say you must defend against her, whether fighting on your kland or in the sea is your decision but I would think an extremely large armada as defense is what you want ;)

TheMeInTeam

Jun 30, 2009, 12:52 PM

As all RPCs, rules are meant to be bent (Gilgamesh is NOT a rule breaker IMHO).

Witht hat said, if you are attacked by an AI I expect a none-stop war to repel the invaders. However, the game was designed for you to keep a naval block to prevent such an event!

Now

Every RPC has a challenge. Yes Isabella is stinkingly close. Suffice to say you must defend against her, whether fighting on your kland or in the sea is your decision but I would think an extremely large armada as defense is what you want ;)

Actually I've played to around the 1600's and a quick spoiler in response to this mad:

You gave the warmongers well over double the land of the zealots. The zealots are a total joke and won't do anything on this map. The warmongers all have hidden modifiers with either other and were initially friendly which really annoyed me.

I eventually got them to declare on the religious continent and on each other as I finally got into FR, but izzy is a vassal now and there's a lot of fighting. Map trade shows that only we have oil. Worse yet, no uranium, so no nuking the ridiculously oversized-at-no-effort warmongers.

However, the wars have been slowing them down somewhat. I'm just going to gun late culture using the mass media wonders, confuc + tao cathedrals, and sushi (which I already have). I have enough of a tech lead where I can probably keep dialing wars until the game ends.

With the oversized warmongers all having hidden :) with each other, UN is virtually impossible on this map. In fact, it's quite dangerous and I prefer one of the warmongers builds it so that another one runs against him.

I can get to combustion before these wars expire, so I can just build 10 destros or so and check war mode (using a blimp or two to scout if they're in war mode).

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 01:06 PM

TheMeInTeam

Jun 30, 2009, 01:18 PM

TMIT

Ah, you found legitably what was in my spoiler, The land of the zealots and the land of war-mongers with Atlantica being the only one with oil!

My I envisioned the game with some important concepts;

1) Combustion to protect yourself. I have just gotten to this myself in my game while noone else has astronomy yet although Shaka has rifles to my muskets (:eek:).

2) No Nukes, although someone said the AI popped it from a mine.

3) You need to be concerned about One continent overrunnung the other and getting a domination win while the lofty Atlanteans gaze admiringly at themselves in a mirror.

Dealign with isolation was the easy part :D

By the way, Shaka has Toku and GK vassaled while sal has Justinian vassaled and Issabella trying to attack me with triemes and galleys!

My game is easier than yours then.

All 3 warmongers were free when I met them. I bribed shaka vs toku and they swapped some cities and took peace eventually. Shaka has izzy for a vassal, GK has sal. GK is now at war with shaka IIRC, and toku with justinian. Something like that. Anyway none of the warmongers control each other, and everybody is at war. It's doubtful anyone will declare on me before I win.

All that aside, the land really befits atlantis...it's ridiculously good if a little small (which is kind of the point).

budweiser

Jun 30, 2009, 02:16 PM

I'll try it. For an extra challenge I will never set foot outside my own cultural border with any unit, but I will do monarch.

callon

Jun 30, 2009, 03:00 PM

Funny game Mad. :goodjob:
Won a cultural victory in the early 1900. (emperor, epic speed)

I have to say that the warmongers were very peaceful once I hade met them. From the time I met them there where only two wars, the first was shaka vs izzy and the second was Justinian who DOWed Saladin. Next turn Justinian became a vassal to Izzy a lá Mansa :lol:

budweiser

Jun 30, 2009, 03:05 PM

Izmir Stinger

Jun 30, 2009, 04:19 PM

I'm debating keeping all borders closed, running merc and going for space. I mean really keeping people out. By what date would an ai monarch win?

Is it doable? I think the cities might end up being too small if I dont trade resources.

You can trade specific resources even if your borders are closed. I agree, your cities will be too small without trade; Atlantis has all of 3 luxury resources. You also need to found your own religion if you do that, but the payoff for the shrine is low because you can't send missionaries overseas.

I only fit nine cities on Atlantis (a number which suggests a cultural victory). and it feels a tad crowded to me. How many did other people manage to cram in?

budweiser

Jun 30, 2009, 04:42 PM

Turn 23 - Trouble in paradise!

The Mongolian Civilization was destroyed :eek:

madscientist

Jun 30, 2009, 07:06 PM

OMG!

I did not play it copmpletely out but the inevitable was destined to happen.

TOKUGAWA WAS GOING TO WIN THE SPACE RACE!

I got dogpiled after I got destroyers. Kept the enemy at bay and had to retake a coastal city from Shaka, but it set my research back enough. Toku was far far ahead at the end and the nail in the coffin was the internet which he got!

Fluxx

Jun 30, 2009, 07:31 PM

So I played till 1170 AD.
Nice start, great Island.

Selfresearched beelining for Lib.
Founded Confucianism AND Taoism.

Could have completed LIB 800AD, decided to stall it. After I saw a glimpse of a cultural border I decided to take Astronomy with it, which I did at 1150 AD.
Backfilled alot of techs through the Justinian/Saladin/Isabella continent.

Also I have setup the perfect GP farm in Uruk. With the GL, NE pacificism and parthenon. I have already popped 5 GP, and with only 2 specialists running atm (have not switched to CS yet, whipped all Universities first) it still take 16 turns to pop the next one.
Also got hold of the pyramids btw.

When I hit the last university in Uruk, I will start farming some good research points with at least 7 specialists, which will net me about 300-500 beakers in Uruk alone if I place Oxford in Uruk too.

Either I go for a spacerace, or I start taking over the other continent since I will keep my tech lead for a LONG LONG time.

JTMacc99

Jun 30, 2009, 08:00 PM

I only fit nine cities on Atlantis (a number which suggests a cultural victory). and it feels a tad crowded to me. How many did other people manage to cram in?

You know, I'm looking at my dot map and I ended up with 8. That is most annoying, since 9 would certainly be a better number. I have no idea how I'm going to fit another one in. Maybe I should restart, but I've already founded two religions (from CoL and popped Philosophy with my first GS) and I'd hate to need to go back from that point.

Ignorant Teacher

Jun 30, 2009, 08:23 PM

@Fluxx:
I don't think you can take any land troops outside of your borders, so it makes kind of difficult to take over other continents. :lol:

budweiser

Jun 30, 2009, 09:47 PM

1836 - I havent stepped foot outside my cultural border with any unit yet.

4 turns to RR. I am stuck in a war with Toku and Shaka who both share the big continent. Toku keeps sending Galleons and i sink them with Frigates. Shaka sends just frigates and no galleons, weird. Toku wants Nationalism for peace. No deal. Shaka wont talk. I dont think I can win, but I can sure last a whiile. Culture is sure the way to go here. Thank god for the Drill promo and the protective trait

TheMeInTeam

Jun 30, 2009, 09:48 PM

Emp/normal No events

I'm glad I went emperor, this map is rigged to be harder than usual, and especially hard thanks to the RPC rules banning us from leaving our continent. I might have lost on immortal.

Anyway I finished this one up 1930 AD

I went fast toward lib, then held off on it for astro. Settled out 9 cities, bribed the warmongers vs each other and the other island, and the rest was history. Shaka was big enough that he was actually going for domination, but too late...

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss213/CivIVTMIT/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

Fluxx

Jul 01, 2009, 03:25 AM

@Fluxx:
I don't think you can take any land troops outside of your borders, so it makes kind of difficult to take over other continents. :lol:

OH ya crap!

Good that you remind me mate, almost conveniently forgot that rule :P

madscientist

Jul 01, 2009, 06:56 AM

You know, I'm looking at my dot map and I ended up with 8. That is most annoying, since 9 would certainly be a better number. I have no idea how I'm going to fit another one in. Maybe I should restart, but I've already founded two religions (from CoL and popped Philosophy with my first GS) and I'd hate to need to go back from that point.

@JMT

I purposely set the land like that to sort of see how many went 8 cities thinking of ideal placement or went a tight 9 like TMIT to max out culture.

Sian

Jul 01, 2009, 07:11 AM

@MS/JMT
I actually only went 7 cities

1758AD Monarch/Marathon
when you get to Combustion (quite easy with some beelining) you can easily make your island completely safe ... i'm stuck in a war with Shaka / Saladin (Vassal after a major war between Shaka and all the Zealots) but have completely blocked all Shaka's coastal cities with Movement 9 Destroyers killing everything naval (including work boats) ... and if Genghis / Toku (Vassal over a series of i'd guess fairly equal wars till i met them and backfilled with Genghis, giving him a hefty (non military) tech advantage, which he transmuted into a military advantage) gets frisky and jumps me (somewhat unlikely since i'm pleased with Genghis currently) i'd just block those two out as well with Destroyers ...

of landbased army i have a whooping 7 Warriors (and 3 riflemen i built before i managed to churn out enough destroyers to feel safe from Shaka)

Currently beelining Computers to take the grap the internet (while building the hits wonders for more happiness (which is somewhat lacking) and tradebait), and then i'd go beeline a spaceship

budweiser

Jul 01, 2009, 08:12 AM

My progress so far...

I just got Combustion and Flight. Its mid to late 1800s. I am putting in Airports in most cites for the extra trade routes. Izzy is 4 or 5 techs ahead and thinks I am too advanced. Toku is about 1 tech ahead. Only Justinian will trade with me. I finally gave in and made peace with Shaka and Toku, giving each one Liberalism for peace. The war was just too annoying. I have 7 or 8 well promoted frigates which I am upgrading now to destroyers. I have been running 70-80% science so it has been difficult to find spare cash to pay for upgrades.

Its a long way to a space ship, I am not sure if I can make it.

Sian

Jul 01, 2009, 11:09 AM

update
this is going to get ugly i think ... Genghis have his eyes set on Dominion and have vassaled Shaka ... luckily he doesn't have enough land so he have to kill one of the Zealots as well ... just sad that i'm camping the whole continent with Destoyers and Battleships while building my SpaceShip back home :p ... he can't get out unless he gets Shaka to build some big ships with his Uranium (which MS must have forgotten to delete) ... and even then he have a problem, since my Destroyers are at mininum Combat II, most of them Combat III ... and have a hefty techlead (and Cristo so if theres a problem i pop Slavery one turn and whip out 7 new Destoyers) ... at the same time Isabella have built Apollo (but doesn't seem to have the beaker output to get the toptree techs for space before me) and Justinian have gotten his first Legendary city (though his other cities are rather far behind)

Ignorant Teacher

Jul 01, 2009, 12:40 PM

Mad, can our navy carry fighters and missiles offshore?

JTMacc99

Jul 01, 2009, 12:48 PM

Mad, can our navy carry fighters and missiles offshore?
I am going to assume the answer is ABSOLUTELY. If I don't get overrun before then, I plan to have quite a few aircraft carriers.

JTMacc99

Jul 01, 2009, 12:56 PM

@JMT

I purposely set the land like that to sort of see how many went 8 cities thinking of ideal placement or went a tight 9 like TMIT to max out culture.

And I was thinking I was going to be okay with my 8, since it didn't seem like I'd get a third religion, and then I got a prophet and went ahead and picked up Divine Right before anybody else. I should really get my butt in gear and pick my three culture cities, and put some thought into where I could cram a ridiculously unnecessary city for the specific goal of having it build three temples. I think I have an unworked plains hill to use for this. I'll just have it work one other tile and end up rush-buying the temples.

At some point, I'll actually go ahead and write this one up properly.

madscientist

Jul 01, 2009, 01:29 PM

Mad, can our navy carry fighters and missiles offshore?

You bet they can :devil:

TheMeInTeam

Jul 01, 2009, 02:48 PM

@JMT

I purposely set the land like that to sort of see how many went 8 cities thinking of ideal placement or went a tight 9 like TMIT to max out culture.

Of course, a food corp totally limits the issue with tight placement (really all corps do). This is why my 3 legendary cities were all at or above pop 20 even though they all overlapped with multiple cities...

Ignorant Teacher

Jul 01, 2009, 06:36 PM

Started to play.

The game has progressed unitl 1398AD and it has a name: :rockon: PIRATES!!! :rockon: I've got 12 privateers in some points of Shaka's coast right now. :trouble: BTW, he's a monster and is teching superfast, too many inland cities. I've already got a GG and am about to unlock HE to combo with Moai. Everybody's free so far. The one thing that bothers me now is that you can't take bombers on carriers.:gripe:

budweiser

Jul 01, 2009, 07:58 PM

madscientist

Jul 02, 2009, 06:55 AM

The end.

Toku launched in 1980. There is nothing I can do about it. My economy wasn't strong enough to self research all the way to space. In 1953 I flipped the culture switch but I am at least 60 turns away. It was a fun game. No units ever stepped outside my cultural border. Two frigates did attack into an ocean sqaure because I was frustrated, but they never actually entered the tile. I was completely safe militarily the whole game.

Similar game that mine was heading, I even lost the damned internet to Toku!

This is a problem with the Space approach I think, the land is too small and the war-mongers land too large. I think it's difficult to win Space race and culture is probably the way to go.

JTMacc99

Jul 02, 2009, 08:42 AM

Got a few minutes here to start the story, so here we go:

Checking in with Monarch/Epic.

The great civilization of Atlanta spent almost five thousand years dedicated to making itself a great place to live...

The glorious capital of Atlanta (known as Capital City) was founded right where the great leader stood, and proceeded to build many workers, work boats and settlers. Eventually the city also built a library and gave birth to a great scientist who discovered the secret of Philosophy, founded the second religion (after the one from Code of Laws) and brought the people of Atlanta the concept of pacifism. Several more great people, have been born and eventually the great Parthenon in capital city also helped generate more great people.

The economy of Atlanta is still cottage based, despite the great people bonuses, and much of the research path has been with the idea of getting the cottage economy civics in place.

The early years saw a plan to settle 7 more glorious cities: Braves, Hawks, Thrashers, (Later renamed Turner Field, 95 and Humid, and Peachtree respectively), Coca Cola Inc., Delta Hub, Foxworthy, and This Is CNN.

In 775 AD, this is the state of the nation when the citizens of Atlanta discovered the secret of Optics:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0006-1.jpg

The first of the three nations we met immediately dropped in to make threats against the Altantian way of life:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0005-1.jpg

The other two (Justinian and Saladin ended up being much more friendly and good trading partners for the next 1,000 years. The other good news was that Atlanta was a fairly advanced nation at the time of first contact:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0007-2.jpg

A while later, as Atlanta's caravels circled the globe, they met three more civilizations who took an instant disliking to the beautiful and peaceful people of Atlanta. Some careful trading and granting of gold demanded for no particular reason allowed the people of Atlanta to develop a cordial relationship with Toku and Genghis Khan. Unfortunately, nothing seemed to make the warlike Shaka happy with us.

The people of Atlanta decided to focus on two specific goals in order to protect themselves from what was clearly becoming a very dangerous world. First, they would make a drive towards combustion and therefore the ability to field a powerful navy. Along the way, they would also be able to build a fleet of Privateers to keep an eye on the hostile nations as well as build up some much needed military experience. The second goal was to work on things that would improve the cottage economy. Any other technologies would need to be secured through trade.

Being first to discover Liberalism was easily in reach of the citizens of Atlanta, so they stopped research one turn short of completion, traded for the secrets of gunpowder, researched chemistry and then took Steel as their free technology. The Atlanta Hawks lobbied for the nation to take advantage of this moment in history by building a large number of cannons and teaching that pain-in-the-ass Isabella a lesson, but the idea was quickly shot down as going against everything the nation stood for.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg

Instead, the nation used it's knowledge of steel to build drydocks and move forward towards its goal of combustion. A dozen privateers were built and began to set up a complete blockade around the city of Tuxedo, which is where the Spanish were massing a large navy while stating they had "other things on their hands right now" during certain talks we had with them. A separate group of four Privateers was sent towards the Zulu nation to see what his "other things on his hands" might entail.

The privateers discovered MANY ships in his coastal cities.

Then, around 1700AD, with Atlanta still 15 turns away from discovering combustion a large fleet of Zule caravels and galleons set sail on a direct path for Atlanta!!! The four gallant privateers launched a series of attacks on the Zulu fleet. Eventually, they were joined by 6 more privateers sailing at top speed from the Spanish coast. The Zulu fleet was destroyed, and Atlanta privateers did chase down this one galleon that had turned around in an attempt to get back to a Zulu city.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0010-1.jpg

The happiness of this news was VERY short lived, when one of the galleon hunters spotted this off the coast of Zululand.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0011-1.jpg

CRAP. Frigates were not going to be a good thing for the fleet of privateers and Atlanta's scientists were still a long way away from building steel ships. The hope was that the Zulu nation lost enough troops that it was going to take them a few turns before they could reload a new bunch of galleons and try again.

Atlanta decided it was no longer a good idea to be hanging around developing great people when it would probably be a much better idea to be developing an advanced navy. Also, the citizens of Atlanta were starting to get very unruly regarding the lack of emancipation. A snap decision was make a couple trades with our friends Justinian and Saladin to pick up democracy and scientific method. We needed have that oil ready to go, and we could certainly use all the extra hammers from the numerous towns of Atlanta.

Only a two turns after the Zulu Frigate fleet was spotted, and one turn after the nation went into revolution, ANOTHER Zulu fleet of three caravels and 4 galleons was spotted off the coast of Spain by the four remaining privateers near Tuxedo.

In the first turn, they destroyed the three caravels and one galleon. Unfortunately, the remaining galleons were close enough to Atlanta's waters and the Zulu declared war and sailed them right up to the coast of Atlanta. Shaka also obviously bribed his (and formerly our) friend Toku to declare war on us. The privateers quickly destroyed the three galleons before any Zulu troops landed. However, the damage was done.

The war was on, the nation was in revolt, and the citizens of Atlanta were going to be in SERIOUS danger if they didn't hurry the heck up and do something to defend themselves.

Also in the back of their minds before the revolution, if Isabella decides to declare war whenever Shaka does, we will not have enough ships or troops to stop her from landing and overrunning us with her cavalry. This made us decide to go into free religion and are hoping that we might be able to quickly mend some long-standing animosity between the two nations. It's a long shot, but drastic times call for desperate measures.

The next update should be interesting.

dalamb

Jul 02, 2009, 10:01 AM

I suppose cultural has to be the way to go here, though I find the standard strategy rather boring at the moment.fishing > mining > BW >pottery, building a worker until fishing, then two workboats, then finish worker. Then sailing; not sure it's worth trying for the GLH although some cash from losing it might be nice. Similarly with Oracle. Both are "builder instinct" moves -- standard strategy avoids everything but GA-generating wonders.

I just finished chopping a settler and am deciding where to send him. jesusin's strategy only requires 6 cities and 2 religions, but I'm a lot more comfortable going for 9/3 -- though on the Alexander Nobles' Club I lost out on all the late religions but Confucianism. If I need nine cities, all I can see for placement is the following, which is very, very tight:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/Atlantisdotmap.jpg
White is an obvious GP farm especially if Uruk builds Great Prophet-generating wonders. Possibly cyan and green in the north should each be 1W so green is on a river. Any advice?

JTMacc99

Jul 02, 2009, 10:15 AM

Here's a question: What would have happened in all of your games if you, along with the zealots, had put a some effort into denying the warmongers a single religion? It wouldn't have taken much to do so in my game.

I suppose cultural has to be the way to go here, though I find the standard strategy rather boring at the moment.fishing > mining > BW >pottery, building a worker until fishing, then two workboats, then finish worker. Then sailing; not sure it's worth trying for the GLH although some cash from losing it might be nice. Similarly with Oracle. Both are "builder instinct" moves -- standard strategy avoids everything but GA-generating wonders.

I just finished chopping a settler and am deciding where to send him. jesusin's strategy only requires 6 cities and 2 religions, but I'm a lot more comfortable going for 9/3 -- though on the Alexander Nobles' Club I lost out on all the late religions but Confucianism. If I need nine cities, all I can see for placement is the following, which is very, very tight:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/Atlantisdotmap.jpg
White is an obvious GP farm especially if Uruk builds Great Prophet-generating wonders. Possibly cyan and green in the north should each be 1W so green is on a river. Any advice?

I was able to get three religions by focusing research on CoL, building a library in the capital, adjusting research to open up Philosopy, and then using the scientist to bulb it for the second religion. Later, I once again had to alter research and use a great person to grab Divine Right first. At least all three of those techs fetched nice stuff in trades.

I didn't need the Oracle to get CoL first, and I opted against the Great Lighthouse as well, since it would be LONG time before I could establish any trade routes with other civs. Since it was pretty hard to crash the economy on this island, I found it was much more useful to use all that food and production in the capital to build workers, settlers, and work boats to quickly settle.

If you are going to settle those nine cities like that, you damn well better make sure you get three religions. Also, while you are focusing on your culture victory, don't lose sight of the danger around you.

dalamb

Jul 02, 2009, 10:37 AM

@JTMacc99:+2 trade routes in coastal cities (which most of my hypotheticals would be) is still useful, isn't it? The big deal with cultural, though, is polluting the GA gene pool.

budweiser

Jul 02, 2009, 10:59 AM

Similar game that mine was heading, I even lost the damned internet to Toku!

This is a problem with the Space approach I think, the land is too small and the war-mongers land too large. I think it's difficult to win Space race and culture is probably the way to go.

Toku got the internet in my game. One time he finished 5 Space Ship parts in 1 turn! He was huge in my game because the Mongols were wiped out very early. At one point he and Shaka went at it and I gifted oil to Shaka. That was no use. Toku kept on taking cities and building his ship at the same time. BTW I think the war mongers come visit because of the oil.

I doggedly kept after space, but if I had flipped the switch around 1932 instead of 1956, I might have beat him. But that wasn't the point. Culture here was an obvious choice.

I rarely replay a map, but I might do so here if nothing else interesting comes up on the boards. I'll try again for space and focus just on that. I will also allow my Navy free reign.

JTMacc99

Jul 02, 2009, 11:06 AM

@JTMacc99:+2 trade routes in coastal cities (which most of my hypotheticals would be) is still useful, isn't it? The big deal with cultural, though, is polluting the GA gene pool.
Useful, yes, but they are all going to be +1:commerce: trade routes. By the time you can turn them into intercontinental trade routes, the rest of the world is going to be converting to Mercantilism. So with 8 coastal cities, you are picking up and extra 16 commerce per turn. That's not to shabby early on, but it ends up being a lot less useful when you realize that many of those cities are hammer poor, and will take a LONG time to build the commerce multiplying buildings.

I wouldn't worry at all about the great artist gene pool. If you're going to survive long enough in this game to win a culture victory, you'll probably need some scientists, engineers, and even a merchant or two along the way. If for nothing else, you'll want a merchant to found Sid's Sushi for you. (I'm trying to build one now in my game.

Mikehendi

Jul 02, 2009, 02:17 PM

I also gave it a go @ monarch. What other victory type can be right for atlantis except for culture!

untill 1 AD:

Settled in place, went worker first while teching mining-bw-ah-fishing-pottery-writing-iron working.

I tried to get a 10XP unit, but @ 7XP I could send my brave warrior on retirement.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0177.jpg

By this time nobody had even built stonehenge yet, so I went myst-med-priesthood and teched COL while building the oracle. I whipped the oracle in 825BC, founded confucianism in 800BC, and chose Philosophy as a free tech, founding taoism on the same turn!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0180.jpg

So that's 2 religions in the pocket.

By this time I have founded 3 cities: the capital, Eridu south of the capital, and Kish, on the other side of the island, for the +1 happy from silver. together with the +1 from gold, and +2 from forge, +1 from religion and then some from temples, that's a HUGE early happy cap! I whipped like crazy all game long!

I then researched metal casting for colussus, since I will have 9 cramped cities I'll be working water tiles frequently, and start a beeline for theology (masonry-mono)

After MC I whip forges in the capital and Eridu, and start building the GLH and the colossus (No copper in sight though...)

I 4 pop whip the GLH in 100BC (eridu has 3 big food sources, so growing back goes immensely fast.

Check out the HUGE difference in research before and after the colossus/GLH combo:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0187.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0188.jpg

And the log says, in 1 AD I founded Christianity! My game is historically accurate! Hooray!

So, the glorious Island of Atlantis @ 1AD:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0196.jpg

Cities:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0189.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0190.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0191.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0192.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0193.jpg

So, 3 religions are in the pocket. I hope to get divine right also later on. Teching Metal Casting relatively early turned out really well, with the increased happy cap from gold/silver/forges/temples and +50% production (forge + org reg), and foodrich land, I whip buildings like no tomorrow.

plans:
- Literature for Glib ( I never bothered to put up a "perfect" Gartist farm, I'll just run a bunch of artists when I've switched to caste, and hope for the best :) )
- Music
- Apostelistic palace for hammer bonus
- divine right
- spiral minnaret (or sistine chapel? the one with culture bonus I mean)
- Lib
- Sushi
-WIN

dalamb

Jul 02, 2009, 04:13 PM

Well, if the GLH is a bad idea on an isolated start, then I should have postponed Sailing and Masonry in favour of more urgent techs like Priesthood, for the Oracle and cheap Ziggurat/Courthouses. So I started again. Also, give jesusin's advice that only 2 cities need cathedrals for my intended cultural win, and given I'm playing at Noble which is much easier than most of you are doing, I figured I could spread cities out and so am trying the following revised dotmap:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/altdotmap1640BC.jpg
Moving cyan 1SE puts it on a river but loses the crab and crowds the already lousy black potential 7th city. I don't think any of these are especially great for production but several have a couple of hills.

The Almighty dF

Jul 02, 2009, 05:50 PM

Y'know, I've never tried one of these before. Gonna boot this up a bit later today, seems fun.

Comedically, I was listening to Donovan's Atlantis when I saw this thread.
Hail Atlantis!

Edit: can't load it.
Keep getting told "Cannot load version 1936876886, expected version 301 or lower."

JTMacc99

Jul 02, 2009, 07:20 PM

dalamb, go ahead and found that seventh city right where you marked it. It can be the last one, but it will be just fine in the long run. :thumbsup:

JTMacc99

Jul 02, 2009, 07:54 PM

And for my own game, picking up where Atlanta left off, in a giant panic about the never ending swarm of...

Zulu ships, and now very unfortunately accompanied by Frigates, making Atlanta's privateers significantly less effective. Eventually, the nation came out of revolt and research began again on combustion. We were fortunate to discover oil directly under our tundra city, eliminating the need for a fort or well replacing any of the towns of Atlanta.

Eventually that Zulu fleet spotted earlier did set sail for Atlanta, but the Zulu naval commander was nice enough to send two of the three frigates protecting the transports ahead a few moves to attack a pair of patrolling privateers. One frigate won, the other one lost. The Atlantian navy sent in a pair of newly built frigates to destroy the Zulu one separated from the pack, and then they joined up with the Privateers to be ready for the main Zulu fleet.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0012-1.jpg

Before we took our chances with the privateers, we checked in with Shaka who was willing to talk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0013-1.jpg

Um. No. We believe the tide has turned, and we are very close to annihilating your crappy navy with our destroyers. So we went ahead and dealt with his latest fleet, suffering damages but not losing a single ship (the lone Zulu Frigate lost a fairly even battle to an Atlantian frigate, and the rest of the ships were sunk fairly easily.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0014-1.jpg

We checked back again after destroying that fleet, and he lowered the price to 280 gold. We declined. Once combustion was completed, and the very expensive proposition of turning the veteran privateers into destroyers was underway, the world took notice of the skyrocketing Atlanta power rating and peace treaties were reached with Shaka and Toku.

With the shores relatively secure, (although Shaka is once AGAIN massing a fleet, this time in the icy waters directly south of Atlanta) the nation has turned it's sights on actually winning the game. Temples are going up. Missionaries are spreading religions to the few cities still in need. Cathedrals, theaters, universities are all being built. The best use of the Hermitage will also be determined shortly. A great merchant was born, and was shipped off to the double holy city of Turner Field, where it will someday (hopefully) found the Sid's Sushi Corp. Mining Inc. is already up and running there. We seriously considered Creative constructions, but were not sure if we would ever have more than 1-3 resources to feed it. At least with Mining, we have several domestic resources available.

It seems like it will be difficult to get the culture win at this point, but as long as we can continue to fend off the hostiles while concentrating on generating culture, it seems like it will be possible.

Feyaria

Jul 02, 2009, 09:26 PM

In warmongering games i always play marathon, but this "looked" like a more peaceful builder game, so a faster speed is better.

Space Victory in 1926 with 28131 points. I realy enjoyed this game, was realy a paradise island. As you can see, i built 7 cities, all on rivers and with lots of food (only the size 14 city has no food resource) Barbarians were no issue, i killed 3 Lions and a Wolf, then the island was fog busted.
http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp273/Feyaria23/Civ4ScreenShot0153-1.jpg
My only mistake: researched Code of Laws(230BC) before priesthood :) i realy forgot about the UB, but so i got a religion!
Saved my forest till mathematics(1275BC), but then i chopped them into the Hanging Gardens. As the Great Lighthouse was also not built yet, i chopped it out too. Not very useful in the beginning with only +1 trade routes, but in the time after Astro(940AD) it was a great help.
Lots of food meant a lot of specialists, but i tried to work a lot a cottages too. As i was going for space and no early trading partners, no bulbing, Great Scientists were used for 5 Academies, other GPs were used for Golden Ages. (and the 2 usual corps) i even got a 4 GPs Golden Age (with my only GPriest, not worth to build a shrine for a 7 city religion). Lost only 2 turns for Anarchy (Slavery and Religion), all other civic changes were in Golden Ages. (5 total, Taj Mahal and 1+2+3+4 GPs)

Isabella died early to barbs(2700BC), so only 2 zealots with different religion on the first continent (no tech trading) and 3 warmongers fighting each other (also no tech trading there), so i was almost at even tech when i met them with my caravels (beelined optics early(445AD), before civil service ans aethetics). I traded a few techs, but never optics and they took a long time to research it themself, i think that was the key for winning.

Justinian trade me Theology with the Apo not built yet, so i got it, but only for the hammer bonus on temples and monasteries. Uni of Sankore followed because of the great synergy. Also got Notre Dame and all Renaissance and Indutrial wonders, as i was far ahead in tech at that point.

Delayed liberalism till i could take Democracy from it. (1260AD) Then the CE was fully running. with lots of fully crown towns and levees in every city, i had a huge production, enough for the wonders and the space ship parts.

In 1660 Shakas first attack came, but i had Asembly Line since 1615 and had already bought some Infantry (they replaced the 7 old warriors from the start). All 3 warmongers declared war at different times, but most attacks were already destroyed by destroyers :) Thanks for the oil, without it, it would have been extremly hard.
C3-Blitz destroyer realy rock wooded navy! Later on i built Submarine with sentry promotion to scout the ocean, you can see the 2 little dots on the left border of the minimap, very useful if you see the enemy coming.

Wimpy Saladin also declared once, but he capitulated after i killed his infasion force and his home navy. He was sometimes over the 50% limit to break free, (both land and people) but he stayed my vasall. (the happiness was useful, his resources too) He was the lowest in power, so i think he felt safer with my protection.

I built as much military as i could keep without costs, in the end it was about 20 ships and 3 Infantry and a fighter per city.

Crusing to Space was easy, had enough production and research with my 7 cities.

A funny thing: Delayed Mass Media as long as possible (wanted to keed the Apo-Hammers, but i just managed to build the UN 1 turn before victory!

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp273/Feyaria23/Civ4ScreenShot0152-1.jpg

Oh, i make a second mistake in this game, made peace with shaka with only 3 XP left for the next General. That was the General that would have allowed me to build level 4 units in my heroic epic city, had to wait some time till the next attack for this General.

The Almighty dF

Jul 02, 2009, 10:01 PM

Got it to work, was doing it wrong.

And... lost. That was odd. Game ended at 1000AD, Shaka won a time victory.

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 03, 2009, 03:09 AM

Very late Check point 1

ORP challenge-Atlantis

Check point 1 & 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8235071&postcount=93)
Check point 3 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8238100&postcount=103)
Check point 4 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8238113&postcount=104)
Atlantis Re-dux Report 1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8245953&postcount=117)
Atlantis Re-dux Report 2 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8245995&postcount=118)
Variants allowed;

No leaving Island with troops, settlers, Missionaries etc as per instructions.
Specialist Economy aimed for.
Victory will be space race.
Crazy on navy/subs.

I've decided to give it a go, as I've plenty of time, and I think I'll put away the LHC game. Just not happy with how it going.

Anyway, I settled in place.

A quick run down, didn't make notes as I played, I built the Great Light House, no brainer there, I also built the Oracle in 1200 or so, and took Confucianism with it. The Pyramids went EARLY..LIKE 1200 BC I had a go at the Temple of Artemis, but got 715 gold out of it.

I've researched Metal casting, built the Colossus, settled 6 cities with room for 2 more as of 10 AD.

Research will be Monotheism, dual switch to organised religion/Monarchy, then research Civil service Civil Service, and once I have that I'll do a Dual switch to Bureaucracy/Caste system.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%201/Island10AD.jpg

I'm doing remarkably well, compared to where I like to be, must be the small Island mass. Sum total of barbs seen is 2 archers, both spotted by fog busting warriors on the way to fog busting sites, both sucessful.

Whipped many buildings, mainly Granary/Forges. Made a mistake and whipped 2 Libraries, shouldn't do that. Running 2 Scientists in most cities. Designated my capital city/Wall street city, with 1 settled Great Merchant already. Moai statues to be build, and named as such, by the silver pig site. Science city is the Gold/Silk site to the south, with a sea food source. Popped silver from the plains hill, losing 1 hammer. I was surprised how I got acess to silver without a mine.

Only warrior defence, going to use a farmed economy, with Cottages built in Capital city only.

Uruk will be Ironworks. Other cities shall just run max Scientists. Looking good over all, no copper, and I assume no Iron. Feeling good about this, currently trying to produce the Hanging Gardens, but don't hold out much hope, if I do, I'll have 8 cities to take advantage of it.

I'm going to try for Parthenon, Shwedagon Pagoda, and teching Philosophy (bulb?)

Only planned as far as Bureaucracy, move capital to capital city, then see.

No other notes, I GG born in BC's, both Great wall and Stonehenge built on same turn :wow: Christianity just went as well.

Mikehendi

Jul 03, 2009, 05:13 AM

Part 2, until 1180AD, sorry no pics this round

So, I've just founded Christianity @ 1 AD, lol, I've should've renamed the missionary to Jesus I guess.

Techpath went math - civil service for bureaucracy (adopted in 375AD)
Aesthetics - Literature for the great library and national epic
And in 600 AD I'm the first to discover Music! Free Gartist!
Then through monarchy for Divine Right, founding My 4th religion in 840 AD

Unfortunately the Apostelistic Palace is built by someone else in 780 AD, so no hammer bonus for me.
But I did manage to get the parthenon (820) and the great library (860)

Then I get this message: I'm the second most advanced in techs! In Isolation!

It won't be long now until I'll be meeting other civs, so I'm gonna need some better defenses then 1 warrior or vulture per city!
Teching Drama - Currency (for gold trading) - Feudalism - Machinery - Guilds (finishes 1080) and built the sistine chapel.
Now I can build Macemen and Knights, So I go Compass - Optics (1090) for +1 sight and instameet:

Buddhist Isabella (I'm her worst enemy!)
Hiniust Saladin (I'm his worst enemy!)
Judaist Justinian (I'm his worst enemy!)

Whatever differences they may have had before meeting me, now they have a common enemy: ME!

So I;m a big chicken, and not ready for war, so I convert to No state religion in 1140AD, putting those 3 zealots to cautious, and even better, I'm no longer anyone's worst enemy! I give in to demands for techs and together with some trading I get 2 of them to pleased! That's much better

Tech Construction to have siege weapons, and then paper and then I started trading to backfill some techs, like hunting, calender and HBR (My fierce knights were telling me that they were missing something... vital... like a horse to sit on!)

And in 1180 AD, I finally built my 9th and last city!

Now it's time to further spreading my 4 religions, get those temples up and get +200% culture in each culture city

JTMacc99

Jul 03, 2009, 06:58 AM

Got it to work, was doing it wrong.

And... lost. That was odd. Game ended at 1000AD, Shaka won a time victory.

You need to use the save that Sian posted, not the one Mad has in his opening post. Either that, or open up the worldbuilder save in Notepad, edit the line that says Max Turns = 500 to be Max Turns = 0, save it and then launch the game.

UWHabs

Jul 03, 2009, 09:14 AM

My summary so far (Monarch/normal):

So, first off, I have to say I somewhat cheated, in that I read all the spoilers here, and started a game that wasn't going so well.

First attempt, settle in place, worker warriorX3, settler, settle a second city. Then seeing the lovely food, wanted to make a run for the pyramids. As I was building them, the oracle went early. I was beat to judaism by like 5 turns. Beat to Confucianism by 1 freaking turn, and so said screw it.

Next time, I thought I wanted a stronger opening, and was wasting that gold, so I actually settled 1 south. This means I didn't waste time with fishing (and Bronze working, actually), and working the gold early really helped me out. Same basic opening, but this time I founded judaism (in the capital), rushed to the oracle, oracled Theology (founded in 2nd city). Researched CoL for Confucianism (founded in 3rd city), and then with my first scientist, bulbed philosophy (for religion #4, founded in city #4). After the Oracle, I was still going well, so I said what the hey, let's try for the pyramids. And got them!

Then basically holed up, expanded to 9 cities on the island (I probably should have settled less since I founded so many religions - all those other crappy cities have no production, so they're struggling to build temples. Heck, my city up by the seafood/corn site at the top has been building a ziggurat for probably 70 turns. Us atlantians are too civilized for slavery. But let me say, damn, give me a spiritual leader and I would kick butt in this.

Continuing with the game, basically expanded out, and decided to get Astro from Liberalism. When I got optics, met the zealots, and was pretty close in tech. They had all the useless techs that I didn't care about, like hunting, construction, and ones like that. Built a caravel and he met the warmongerer's island, which was religionless (until some of my religions spread there post-astro).

Izzy DoWed on me, but she doesn't have astro yet. I'm about 75 turns away from my 3 cities going legendary, and have been building up riflemen. For some reason, I thought that my defense before where between my 9 cities, I had 7 warriors and one spearman (and one undefended, since by the time it got founded my cheapest unit was like a pikeman) wouldn't quite hold up if someone landed a unit.

My regret this game is I didn't keep a save right after the pyramids. If this game weren't Atlantis, I think a great strategy would be to bulb philosophy, then build angkor Wat, and run a priest economy game. With 4 religions, Free Religion would be absolutely amazing late-game, and I definitely could have kept a tech lead up until later (I was starting to fall behind post-optics).

dalamb

Jul 03, 2009, 09:41 AM

original faulty plan 4000 - 1320 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8228087#post8228087)
revised plan 4000-1640 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8229045#post8229045)
I'm proceeding OK towards a cultural VC. I've planted all 7 planned cities and have founded Confucianism (via research), Christianity (by bulbing Theology with a GP), and Taoism (by bulbing Philosophy with a GS).
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/AD6207cities.jpg
I'm building the National Epic in my GP farm and am running Pacifism. I plan on generating one more GS to bulb Education then will switch to GAs.

I see a suspicious border to the NW -- which from reading other posts I now know is Spain -- so it's time to grind out a few triremes, and maybe schedule researching Optics after winning Liberalism so I can convert them to caravels "just in case". 7 triremes will finish a quest, so that may be a good number to aim for.

I built the Pyramids, partly out of builder-mania and partly so I could eventually rush-buy buildings if necessary, via Universal Suffrage, without having to research Democracy. I bulbed MC with the Oracle and built the Colossos, since I have a lot of coastal cities.

Do you think it might be necessary to go for Chemistry to get frigates for better defence?

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 03, 2009, 10:11 AM

you know I just realised something, our home land is a 'madscientist' small a, without the over hang, and a long tail. No Mr mad was obviously over medicated, when he designed the a.

Reading the spoilers, I'm not really surprised I'm doing so well, let Theology go, as I'm going for space, don't think I"ll bother about the +2 hammers bonus...Organized religion will be bigger, as would Bureaucracy.

I read mads spoiler about civ's, so no biggie. Have to alter max turns in Notepad, as I'm 70% completed at 10 AD :mad:

cripp7

Jul 03, 2009, 10:12 AM

Thought I'd try this, kinda like a LHC game. Done like everyone else settle in place. Built GLH,Colossus,TGL,Oracle,SP in the capitol
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

My goal is for space, I have a good hold on the tech lead so far
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

Warmongers are all Confusion (which just spread to me, I'm going to spam my cities with that. I didn't found not 1 religion!) Of course the zealots are all different religions.

I'm kinda stuck on where to go from here. Someone look at my save (Sian's 3.19) and give me some tips. I'm still learning monarch.

http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/Atlantis/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Mikehendi

Jul 03, 2009, 11:11 AM

Yay, I won a cultural victory in 1858 AD (turn 299)!!!

It wasn't without a fight, as good 'ol Shaka suddenly attacked at pleased with a lot of frigates and cavalry, immediately taking one of my cities...

I will do a full write-up with pics later.

Mikehendi

Jul 03, 2009, 05:51 PM

Until the end: (picture heavy!)

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0215.jpg
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0216.jpg

Especially Shaka is huge, though I'm still among the tech leaders (is that what's called tech parity? My english is not so good). But Shaka's been having some other priorities

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0217.jpg

Like becoming the most powerful civ on the planet!

Also Isabella is particularly powerful.

With Shaka's Random Attack Generator, and dealing with a powerful Isabella without being in her religion, I need some serious defense.

So, I decide not to stop teching after liberalism to go full culture, but I kept on teching up to railroad for machine guns, and assembly line for infantry. If no one beats me to it, I'll also tech Fascism after that, for the great general, so I would later be able to pump out CG3 infantry (with base strength 20, they should be able to keep me safe from attacks. However, I've still got a long way to go before I've teched all that stuff.

I discover liberalism in 1530 AD, taking steel. I wanted to postpone it until I could take assembly line, but that was a bit too optimistic.

@ 1540 AD I've finally spread all 4 religions to all cities, allowing all cathedrals in the culture cities:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0219.jpg

Note that Eridu is a double holy city, with both shrines built!

In 1705 AD, the power ratings look a little better:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0220.jpg

And in 1715, I shut the teching down at this point:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0221.jpg

Unfortunately, I cannot build railroad, because I have no coal. This would become a problem later on.

I traded for democracy, and later for militairy science and tradition.

I up the culture slider, while starting to pump out infantry from 3 cities. (I already have about 10 knights).

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0222.jpg

Lagash is the weakest culture city (It built no wonders), So it gets the Hermitage, and probably the most Great Works. I also take a stab at the pentagon.

Cities in 1755 AD:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0231.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0255.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0256.jpg

Uruk, the capital, slowing down the Pentagon, trying to spit out 1 more great artist so the GPP are not wasted.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0235.jpg

Eridu, GP farm AND wealth city at the same time,

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0236.jpg

Kish, one of my 2 better production cities, containing the Moai Statues:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0238.jpg

Lagash, the weakest of the 3 culture cities:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0239.jpg

Ur, my best production city

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0240.jpg

Nibru, could also use the Maoi. Now it's only a so and so city

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0241.jpg

And the other 3 neccesairy cities:

Bad Tibira

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0242.jpg

Zimbir. I planned this as a production city, containing the Iron, but It's production was needed at Eridu all game long. SO it isn't much.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0243.jpg

And shuruppak. The sign says it all, actually. Only good for ensuring 3 cathedrals per religion

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0244.jpg

Buildings and units:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0246.jpg

treasury

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0247.jpg

civics, which I switched into during my only GA (from a Gscientist)

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0248.jpg

techs

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0249.jpg

militairy threats

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0250.jpg

victory conditions

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0252.jpg

demographics

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0254.jpg

So, in 1790 I trade railroad for mili trad and mili science

And in 1795:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0260.jpg

Oh No!

Mikehendi

Jul 03, 2009, 05:51 PM

Continued: (was over the 30 picture limit)

He immideately takes Bad Tibira, which was still poorly defended at that time.

I lower the culture slider to 30%, generating enough GPT to rushbuy Infantry and Cannons from 5-6 cities every 2 turns.

I only had 4 infantry at that point, but some 15 machine guns. I relocate most militairy to my culture cities. His stacks of cavalry were beaten down fairly easily with cannons and infantry, but his frigates were a real pain. They blockaded my trade routes, which I didn't care about, but I discovered something much more painful:

you cannot work any sea tiles within the blockaded regions! Together with the -4 health because he pillaged my seafood, this meant I had to optimize the worked tiles evry turn to minimize food losses. I've lost quite a few population points in some cities though.

I got 2 GG's, which I used to construct some militairy academies.

Between attacks, I managed to take back Bad Thingy, which only contained 4 cavalty and a treb.

I took peace at the earliest oppertunity (1875 AD) to avoid any more population losses. He wanted one of my cities for peace, but I offered Steel instead, and he took it!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0262.jpg

Phew, I survived. Bad Thingies buildings have all been destroyed, except for a granary and a lighthouse however. Luckily, it had already fulfilled it's function, and I didn't really need it anymore.

Now let's hope I can keep the peace for a turn or 20.

Well... I did! In 1856, I burn 4 GA's in Lagash, putting it to legendary

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0266.jpg

and 1 GA in the capital:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0265.jpg

That changed this:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0268.jpg

To this:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0269.jpg

And on turn 299, in 1858 AD:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0270.jpg

And some more stats:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0271.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0272.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0273.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0274.jpg

Thanks Mad, for hosting this great RPC. I really had a lot of fun playing this. How do you come up with those great ideas!

I might just play this again, aiming for space! This actually was my 2nd monarch victory (or 3rd? not sure). Again, lots of thanks!

dalamb

Jul 03, 2009, 06:02 PM

Mikehendi

Jul 03, 2009, 06:10 PM

Afterthoughts:

The knowledge of being isolated before starting the game, plus the theme of the RPC, made me decide to head for culture from the start.

Things that went well:

- Early metal casting research was probably one of the most important decisions of the game. I whipped forges in all cities but the last, built the colossus, and started building workshops for some cities.

- Lack of production, but lots of food allowed for many efficient, happyness neutral whips from temples and forges. I've whipped almost every building in the 6 secondary cities, except for the food poor ones. I've regularly 5 or 6 pop whipped wonders like GLH, Glib, and especially in my 3rd culture city, Lagash, I 6 pop whipped cathedrals.
I can say, I've never whipped so much in a game as now.

- Switching to no state religion when meeting the zealots was big. I'd probably be declared on earlier and more often if I hadn't done that. Also, when Shaka attacked, I could've got dogpiled by the zealots very easily! Too bad I failed to build the Sweydon Paya (or so), or I would've adopted free religion much earlier!

- Not stop teching @ liberalism also proved extremely important. I wouldn't have survived shaka with maces and knights, that's for sure.

Things that went not-so-well:

- Missing the AP for the hammer bonus, especially for those hammer poor cities

- I wasn't ready for war when shaka attacked. I still tend to negelct my militairy to much. I barely had 2-3 units/city when he attacked. Luckily, I could rush-buy infantry and cannons just quickly enough to withstand him.

- Enemy ships blockading also prevents working sea tiles! I didn't know that, and was hit pretty hard, since I depended on them for my food

I think I played reasonably well. I feel like I made the right strategic decions at the right times. I'm very happy of my early tech choices, which were a lot better planned than I usually do (I guess that's why I mostly struggle on monarch, and why I play out so few games).

I would love any criticism on my game, to help me learn to further improve my game.

Thanks again Mad, I've really learned a LOT playing this RPC!

Mikehendi

Jul 03, 2009, 06:17 PM

AlejDuke

Jul 03, 2009, 10:37 PM

Monarch/Epic 1876 :

Won Culture in 1876, Toku got huge in my game, vassaling both Genghis and Shaka, i was worried he'd go for me next but instead asked for a defensive pact! He really annihilated poor Shaka, taking cities faster than any AI i've ever seen. Probably because Shaka had sent a giant fleet to Isabella right before Toku DOW'd him.

Was a fun game without many hiccups, great land!

My Land
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww178/AlejDuke/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

and Toku's
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww178/AlejDuke/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Top 5 Cities :

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww178/AlejDuke/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

As you can see i didn't build many wonders, missed both the Apostolic Palace and Taj Mahal by a few turns. Mainly relied on religions/culture buildings/cottages and the slider to get them all to Legendary. Haven't gone for culture in a very long time so it was a nice change of pace, i went to free religion immediately to avoid any religious wars, and was surprised that the zealot continent had no wars despite Saladin being hindu while Just and Isa went buddhist. They wouldn't even be bribed!

Thanks for hosting this mad, i'll keep playin em if you keep postin em!

JTMacc99

Jul 03, 2009, 11:22 PM

To the end...

Well, the people of Atlanta, having managed to defend themselves by discovering combustion and building a steel navy, then finally got around to figuring out how they wanted to win this game. The answer seemed to be a Culture victory, which in hindsight, was pretty obvious and could have been achieved much earlier. However, the people of Atlanta were so consumed with what they were doing to improve themselves that they almost got themselves completely wiped off the face of the earth by the Zulus.

Almost.

So, when we last left off, Shaka had finally accepted peace after we turned a few highly promoted privateers into destroyers. Even before that, the Atlanta Privateers and Frigates managed to keep every single Zulu troop off of paradise, but it was REALLY close.

Given the late push for a culture victory, it seemed like the best way to take this cottage economy for the win would be to found corps (Sushi especially, but also Mining to help with the builds) and eventually be building wealth or culture and running the culture slider nice and high.

A little less than a century after the last Zulu war, the big idiot came around again.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg
You can probably make out from the picture that the people of Atlanta decided to go ahead and in true isolationist fashion, circle paradise completely with destroyers. It wasn't done yet, but Shaka showed up on the side we expected him to show up on.

Toku (Pleased) went ahead and issued a DoW as well. Sigh.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0026.jpg

The powerful navy of Atlanta completely destroyed the hapless Zulu invasion ships, sending dozens of powerful Zulu ground troops to the bottom of the sea. A little while later, the same happened to the Japanese fleet. Both nations accepted peace, and I let them off at a realatively cheap price.

About 50 years later, Izzy also issued a DoW on Atlanta. We made her pay for her peace treaty:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg

Atlanta researched Radio and Mass Media in an attempt to get the culture-multiplying wonders from them. Also available from Mass Media was the UN, which we built in one of the non-culture cities. The two goals from this were to see if we could get enough votes for the win and also to piss off the world by doing this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0028.jpg

Well, they all love theocracy so much, I figured I might as well make them pay for it. In total, I believe I made them defy this resolution three times. It could have been like eight times, but I cut them a break.

Eventually, the Atlanta destroyer-moat was complete. No wooden ship would ever be able to force its way through.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0029.jpg

Only a few turns from the end, Shaka comes knocking to see if I'd like to declare war on Izzy. The Atlanta navy had been massing battleships and submarines for no particular reason, so we agreed and sent off the ships to beat up the Spanish coast and sink her unprotected ships.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg
It didn't take long to find and destroy a decent portion of the Spanish Navy. We also launched some cruise missiles to blow up her resource improvements, which was cruel but amusing. We checked in with Izzy and she was ready to capitulate. We took her up on it. The idea of having a capitulating vassal without actually capturing one of her cities was too much to pass up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0031.jpg

Eventually, notification came in:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0032.jpg
It was really late, but a win is a win.

Of all the stats displayed, here is my favorite. Yeah, we destroyed a few ships.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/JTMacc99/CivIV/Civ4ScreenShot0035.jpg

Above that, it also said I destroyed something like 65 cavalry, which I couldn't figure out until I realized they must have been on the Galleons.

Overall, a fun game, even if I didn't actually focus on the victory condition untill very late.

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 04, 2009, 01:41 AM

No thanks to mad, I've managed to change my saved game to a full Marathon timed game, won't run out at 1000 AD. I had to first save as world builder file, then move saved game to public maps, exit to main menu, open up as a senaro, Then save over original file.

Mad, just changing the saved file would have been easier.

Oh yeah, I covered the mini map, and centered over ocean, so as not to spoil my game, but i know who's there and what happens so no biggie, just untagged resources and focused over ocean so not to spoil unrevealed resources.

The Almighty dF

Jul 04, 2009, 05:24 AM

And I won, yay. Noble-Marathon, cultural victory.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2488/civ4screenshot0032.jpghttp://img196.imageshack.us/img196/359/civ4screenshot0033.jpghttp://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5855/civ4screenshot0034.jpg

JTMacc99

Jul 04, 2009, 07:32 AM

dalamb

Jul 04, 2009, 08:01 AM

@JTMacc99:Railroads are a prereq for combustion -- but those destroyers sure are nice!

Mikehendi

Jul 04, 2009, 10:40 AM

Mikehendi: You asked for comments on your game, so here's one. (Given that you won in much more earlier and convincing fashion than I did, take this for what it is worth.) You probably could have waited until you were done with combustion before you shut down the research. It would have given you the two very important things. First, steel ships were a massive advantage Atlantis had over the rest of the world. Second, it would have allowed you to build railroads. (At least, I think that's true.)

I believe Combustion doesn't reveal oil, don't you need scientific method for that? (I'm not sure). And all ships more advanced then a Caravel require Astronomy, a tech I avoided because it obsoletes the colossus (and thus a big chunk of my commerce). And, I don't even want to think about all the stuff that becomes obsolete with scientific method... it gives me the creeps :)

Railroads would've been very nice, since my 1-move units couldn't walk from city to city in one turn, leaving CG3 infantry and Cannons out in the open field. I was hoping for coal to build railroads.

dalamb

Jul 04, 2009, 11:21 AM

@Mikehendi,JTMacc99:Oil is revealed by Scientific Method, which requires Printing Press and either Chemistry or Astronomy. If I decide being invaded is a problem, which it probably is because my 2nd commerce city is so far behind, I'm thinking of continuing after Lib/Nat with Gunpowder (musketman defenders)
Chemistry (frigates; needs me to backfill Construction > Engineering)
Printing Press (+1 commerce for towns and villages)
Feudalism > Guilds (both just prerequisites)
Banking (mercantilism and banks, for when I'm running 100% gold to alternate with 100% culture or science)
Replaceable Parts (maybe some lumber mills)
Steam (coal, levees)
Steel (cannons, drydocks for tougher navy)
Railroad (faster continental defending army movement, better production, maybe machine guns)
Sci Meth (oil)
Combustion (oil wells, destroyers)
But that's a heck of a lot more techs than jesusin would go for!

Cookie Crumbs

Jul 04, 2009, 12:08 PM

You don't need Astronomy for Destroyers/Transports. Just get Scientific Method with Chemistry and head for Combustion.

JTMacc99

Jul 04, 2009, 12:13 PM

Scientific Method reveals oil, but you can't use it (for anything) until you have combustion. Uranium works the same way. You can see it and mine it after you get Physics, but you can't use it until you have Fission. So, if you find yourself without oil after you get combustion, but have mined uranium, you still won't be able to build destroyers until you discover Fission.

and for dalamb on that tech order:
Very similar to what I did, with a gigantic difference. I stopped one short of liberalism, traded for gunpowder, researched chemistry and then took steel. This is pretty much the move that saved Atlanta's ass.

At this point, I could build a couple dry docks and then crank out a large number of privateers. It was the privateers that were able to destroy the Zulu navy while it was on its way to destroy me. It was MUCH easier to kill then all at sea than it was to build enough ground units to repel the attack. Much easier. Plus, it is what the people of Atlanta wanted, no troops on their soil.

dalamb

Jul 04, 2009, 12:53 PM

JTMacc99

Jul 04, 2009, 01:44 PM

I thought I posted a reply to JTMacc99 already, but it didn't appear, so:

What level are you playing at? Was it mentioned in that deleted post? ;) I suspect it's higher than Noble, so maybe...I might not have such a bad invasion as you suffered, so maybe I can make do with frigates (coastal) until destroyers (oceanic) are available. I'd hoped to avoid Astronomy to keep monuments and the Colossos going.

Monarch, which is the level I personally started to notice unreasonably large AI stacks from civs like the Aztecs and the Zulus.

Frigates will certainly help, but in my game, Shaka's initial fleets were made up of 7-8 caravels and 7-8 galleons. He had Military Tradition and Rifles before he had Astronomy, so I am fairly certain that his galleons were loaded up with cuirassiers, cavalry, and various siege and ground troops.

My point is, I would have needed 15 frigates all in the right spot in order to keep those nasty troops from landing if I was attempting to destroy them once they reached Atlanta. It was a lot easier to use stacks of 4-6 privateers to sink all those suckers on their way, especially since they don't get any defensive bonus in the open ocean. As a bonus, it didn't take very long at all to earn my first (and even my second) great general from the Privateers.

Like I said, I completely forgot about the colossus as a good thing to have in my game. I can see why you don't want to give it up. Hopefully you've got a lot of cottaged tiles to work by the time you stop working the coast tiles so heavily.

Mikehendi

Jul 04, 2009, 06:51 PM

JTMacc99

Jul 04, 2009, 09:58 PM

I also played at monarch.

In retrospect I think I should've teched astronomy. I could (barely, at first) handle shaka on my lands, but I was defenseless at sea. So my seafood got pillaged, losing 4 health/city and the food from those recources, but the really nasty part was that he blockaded me.

I always thought blockading only stopped the trade routes, but when he did it, I couldn't work a single sea tile in a 3-4 tile radius from the blockading ships!

Sure, the extra commerce from colossus was nice, but I was really dependant on the food from the sea tiles. I was suddenly seeing my cities starving at -14 food/turn or so! Ouch!

Also:

Right now, I'm replaying the same map (I really liked this RPC), but now I'm aiming for space! I was miles away in tech when I met everyone, but Shaka slowly vassaled EVERY OTHER CIV, and with those increasingly crazy AI era bonusses, he's overtaking me in tech! So I declared on him (and everyone else...), having enough destroyers to make sure he doesn't land troops, and O BOY I'M BLOCKADING ALL OF HIS COASTAL CITIES MUHAHAHAHA, I CAN SEE THEM STARVING, I'm sorry, it just feels GOOOOD! :D REVENGE!.

But Now he has teched flight and rocketry (uh oh) (and completed apollo program, even more uh oh) (I'm teching computers now for internet), and I have absolutely zero experience with modern age warfare.

Any Pointers how I can defend myself from planes/airlifted units and ways of attacking that I might not even know about?

Hmm... if he doesn't have oil, can he build aircraft other than airships? If you're going for space, and at the same time need to disrupt Shaka, I guess aircraft carriers with fighter cover can protect your ships, although a combination of destroyers and battleships should allow you to continue effectively blockading him. Also effective, you can load up subs with missiles and destroy any of his resource tiles in range. Keep that up long enough, and you might be able to slow him down. Blowing up rice farms and iron mines seems to be kind of boring, but it will help a lot with slowing down his Space race progress.

He can't airlift anything into your cities, but he could certainly send them over to nearby Spain for the short trip to Atlantis if she's his vassal.

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 04, 2009, 11:39 PM

Tale of Atlantis

I've played in a bit of a rush, not copious notes.

I teched to civil service, but held off on a civics switch till I could whip or lose the race to the Hanging Gardens, I also built 2 settlers in anticipation of getting it, which I did with a whip for 4 pop, the same was done for the Great Library, 6 pop whip. Then a switch to caste system/Bureaucracy.

I popped out a Great Engineer at 20% odds from Science Central, currently holding over for probably mining corp. received the Great Artist from Music and the GG's have been popping out now as well.

Current research path is, Monotheism, Monarchy, Machinery, then paper/Education. Apostolic palace was built as a Buddhist structure, Meh. Settled Great people so far are 1 Profit +5:gold:, 1 Merchant+6:gold: and 1 Artist+3:gold:, All settled into Capital city, my only cottage city, for the gold generated. That's a total, with Wall street of 42:gold:

Currently building the Statue of Zeus, Sistine Chapel, for failure cash, decided to forgo the Shwedagon Pagoda, as I can't bulb Astronomy with Meditation.

790 AD I alway's seem to lose track of time in the dark ages, anyway, lost out on the Mausoleum of Massalos, and the Hagia Sofia was built the same time as well, did a double switch to Organized religion and Hereditary rule. Research path is Iron working, Machinery, paper, education.

925 AD I've popped out Copper by Uruk, that will help out greatly in the space race, and it would seem I have Iron as well. GG's born so far total 7, it seemed like more, as they were popping out in groups of 2 more or less.

1095 AD I've just researched Engineering, for the Castles, +1 trade routes baby, and I got the best defense Quest straight away. Well, I was going to build Castles all over anyway, so gravy baby, gravy!!! I'm also aiming to build the Notre Dame, for the +2 happy.

1120 AD or so, the Chichen Itza was FINALLY BUILT. I nearly built it twice over for the failure cash, 1400 and 1300 respectively. I was going to have to start in a 3rd city. I birthed a Great Merchant in Uruk, who's been settled into Capital city, that's 60 Gold now from Settled specialists, post wall street, 25 gold now.

1200 AD I meet the first 2 of our neighbours;

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%202/Justinain.jpg

And his Overlord

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%202/Isobela.jpg

Seem to have paper on them at least, nearly finished Education.

I've completed the best defense Quest, I took the +3 from all leaders, though Isobela, has a -3 for 'heathen' Religion. Oh well.

1235 AD Education's in, all cities build Universities, unless they need a library or are building a required wonder. I can only really trade paper, and I'm loathe to do that, and put her, Isobela, on the liberalism beeline. I still haven't gotten Philosophy as yet. Actually she's just researched paper herself.

1300 AD I've now completed in the last 2 turns, the Universtiy of Sankore and Notre Dame, I now swtich to Paganism, to remove the -3 heathen religion. I've also made a traded for Feudalism with Isobela for Music and Optics, I have 2 Trireme's to upgrade and race about the world, thought Justinian has a head start, but he's a vassal.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%202/Notredame.jpg

I buy Justinians map for 85 gold, and he's go vision into Shaka's lands, looks like our original starting position, mads messed up AGAIN!!!!

1330 AD I meet the next two;

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%202/Shakakhan.jpg

and the Vasssal, as if you didn't expect that,

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%202/GhenjisKhan.jpg

I attempt a map trade with Shaka, but as he want's Music with it, and I don't want Calvary storming my island I refuse. He'll get over it, I'm nearly going to gain Circumnavigation bonus anyway, Justinian only has 3 cities, 1 on coast only, and I bought his map, so I know i'm infront of him and Isobela.

I make a trade for guilds with Khan, for Aesthetics, only 3 turns left, but didn't want to give up code of laws, should have traded, and Aesthetics for banking..oh well, too late.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%202/Guildstrade.jpg

I recived the Circumnavigation bonus, just as my caravel, was blockaded in by ice in the south, as the Northern one had already been blockaded in. I now just explore the coast, meet the rest, and Saladin Offically.

1368 AD I was badly beaten to Liberalism by Isobela, I just messed about too much, but she researched both Education and Liberalism very Quickly. Must have received Educaion off her vassal, and straight to liberalism, where she took Astronomy. She's pleased with me, but I still have -4 pagan religion in Paganism??, Ms 10% could come after me, as I only have warriors.

1394 AD I offically meet Saladin, and I only have 5 rivals left, who's gone, I missed it completely, looks like Shaka's got 2/3's of his continent. I'm in BIG BIG TROUBLE.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%202/Saladin.jpg

and so ends Check point 2

Mikehendi

Jul 05, 2009, 07:46 AM

Hmm... if he doesn't have oil, can he build aircraft other than airships? If you're going for space, and at the same time need to disrupt Shaka, I guess aircraft carriers with fighter cover can protect your ships, although a combination of destroyers and battleships should allow you to continue effectively blockading him. Also effective, you can load up subs with missiles and destroy any of his resource tiles in range. Keep that up long enough, and you might be able to slow him down. Blowing up rice farms and iron mines seems to be kind of boring, but it will help a lot with slowing down his Space race progress.

He can't airlift anything into your cities, but he could certainly send them over to nearby Spain for the short trip to Atlantis if she's his vassal.

I've made peace with shaka, paying him some 300 gold or so. War weariness + Emancipation unhappiness was just too much. I've got the culture slider @20% now (with theaters, colosseums and broadcast towers with all 3 hit somethings), I don't want to take it any higher.

I've built the internet (which gave me flight, artillery and rocketry, and just completed apollo program, built the 3 gorges dam and teched genetics (My Ironworks city is GREAT, I've been lucky enough to pop coal for another +50%.)

I think boats can keep shaka off my island, I've got a lot of destroyers busting the fog aout 15-20 tiles around. My only concern is the UN. I didn't built it, because Shaka, who has vassaled everyone, will probably win diplomatic!

I've got 3 GP ready for a GA, and then 2 in reserve, + 1 Gscientist from fusion (2 people are teching fission now, KA-CHING) + 1 GM @ 65% odds will allow for a 2nd GA.

I think I can keep the tech advantage easily now, and I've got enough production. My only concern is someone teching mass media and building the UN.

Yenish

Jul 05, 2009, 09:22 AM

Just played it twice. Emperor level.
I read the spoil, so I knew what I wanted to do.
First in normal, second in epic.
First try, lost the space race to chaka, he launched 2 turns before me, and with both engines. :(

Second try was a space win, (time loss due to settings though, problem with epic speed).
I built 7 cities only. Important focus at the beggining was to get to get theology with the oracle, and build the apostolic palace. I missed a state religion in my first try. Here, I was everyone worst ennemy for long, and that was fine :)
Second important thing was to get monarchy asap. With lots of warriors and the good food resources, the cities grow big fast. Cottage everywhere, and the tech lead is taken.
Third focus : liberalism, and take democracy with it to push the cottages to their max.
Theatre to help with the unhapiness when going out of hereditary rule. Switch with the taj.
Then I focused to the naval techs. Privateers were not that usefull at first, Chaka got frigates too early. He was the major threat. And he got the circum bonus too.
Focus to get destroyer. Got them one turn to late and chaka managed to unload 3 galleons. But machineguns hold them fine. Upgrade the privateers, and then rule the seas.
First line of destroyers blockade the coastal cities, second line watch for ships trying to go out. It is not possible to loose military from that point.I had a war with toku too, no issue.
I kept the war with chaka going on to slow him down.
I declared to isabella because chaka's ships where protected in her territory and could unload before I could sunk them. She quickly capitulates. Cool.

From here on, I got the hapiness wonders to decrease the culture slider, and an easy win. Chaka was busy with toku this time till the end.

Mikehendi

Jul 05, 2009, 01:19 PM

I replayed this scenario, this time aiming for space. I don't finish much games, around 1300-1500 AD my laptop becomes really slow. SO while I'm very familiar with the early tech tree and beelines, I don't really know the important beelines in the 2nd half. Also, I don't have a clue how all those fancy modern era units work. I've never even tried paradrops, stealth, planes, nukes, damn, even just regular boats. So that will also be new.

So, here we go again, on Monarch, Normal speed, until 1 AD.

I settle in place, start on a worker, and:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0335.jpg

So I switch to a fishing boat. Grow to size 2, then worker.

Then I get 2 good events, on consecutive turns!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0336.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0338.jpg

I build two more workboats and a worker to start improving the gold, pigs and clams for my second city, then grow to size 6 and 3 pop whip a settler

Techpath was fishing from hut-mining-BW (forests and slavery)-pottery(granaries for efficient whips)-AH-mysticism-polytheism(instead of meditation for Glibrary)-priesthood

I aggresively pursued getting a 10 XP unit. Last time, the whole island was fogbusted in no time, (creative doesn't help here), so I had no more barbs to slay. I attack a lion, getting me to 3XP, then I attack a barbarian warrior at 50% odds... And won! Getting him up to 8 XP.

Teched writing and sailing while building:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0343.jpg

Took metal casting, and teched COL. With gold, silver, forge, religion and temple I get 10 happyness, 11 in capital.

Wait... Whats that?

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0344.jpg

Come to Mama!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0345.jpg

Didn't your mama ever tell you not to attack a woodsman 2 warrior, who's hidden in a forest, across a river?
Well, Heroic Epic is unlocked!

So, I quickly settle Kish 1 SW of my woodsman warrior. The Great Lighthouse gets BIDL in 650 BC, But I manage to build the Colossus again (350BC)

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0347.jpg

Not too bad! I found Lagash, my future Ironworks city in 225BC, leaving me with 4 good cities in:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0348.jpg

LOL! I did it again! Christianity founded @ 1 AD. And AGAIN I forgot to rename my missionary to Jesus Christ...

Meanwhile, the capital is building the pyramids, since I'm in no hurry to expand beyond my 4 core cities

Techpath after COL was IW, math, masonry-mono (for org reg), aest (parthenon), theology.

I'm planning to build some 5XP Vultures with a free Shock promotion under theocracy, which I can then upgrade to 3-promotion macemen if neccesairy, that means I'll have to postpone Machinery-Guilds for a while, so no effective workshops yet.

I settled a Gprophet in the capital. I'll be settling All GP's for a while. No bulbing for trades is neccesairy now, so why not go for the long run advantages. Scientists in the capital (1 academy), ENgeneers and prophets in Lagash, and Merchants and artists in Eridu.

Some more shots @ 1AD:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0349.jpg

Bureau Cap, science city:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0353.jpg

GPfarm/Wealth city

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0354.jpg

Moai

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0356.jpg

Ironworks city

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0357.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0358.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0359.jpg

JammerUno

Jul 05, 2009, 01:41 PM

@Mikehendi:

Your ironworks site is far better suited as a bureau capital and your current capital is far better suited for the ironworks.

UWHabs

Jul 05, 2009, 02:31 PM

Finishing off my game.

Not sure where I left off, but Izzy declared war on me at one point, but without astro, it was basically just a free Great General.

Then holed up, after a certain point, turned off my tech, since nobody would attack. Heck, I was even friendly with Shaka, and had a defensive past with him. Considering he owns 30% of the world, not bad. Probably if I didn't win culture, he'd be a threat for domination. So, on my winning turn, here we are. The lands:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5079/land0000.jpg
And the victory conditions the turn before I won (after one artist bomb in each city, and one of the cities getting a second one. And a tiny bit of micromanaging just to get them all to go over on the same turn):
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2281/vicconditions0000.jpg

I do think settling 1S and grabbing the gold early was useful. I definitely should have just gone with 6 cities, since even if I built 9 temples in a couple of the religions, I still ran out of time to build all the cathedrals. And I didn't have the resources to build the missionaries to spread all 4 religions to all 9 cities. It's a nice map - I'm debating trying another game but going for space.

Mikehendi

Jul 05, 2009, 03:00 PM

Continued, Monarch, Normal speed, 1 AD - 1490 AD.

So, after founding christianity, I keep on building wonders and infra for a while, not settling any of the 4 remaining cities. I'm planning on building the priest wonders, (+1hammer/priest, +2 gold/science/hammer per state religious building), running a religious economy. How to deal with Isabelle and her 7 (er... i mean 2) zealots while running a different religion, is a problem for later. Much later actually, as I'm probably delaying optics until I get discovered.

Techpath was Literature for the Glibrary, Civil service.

I got this event:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0360.jpg

And get +100 culture instead...

Then meditation, philosophy, founding taoism and making GPfarm Eridu a double holy city!

Music got me a free Gartist,then paper, currency, education to start on universities

Feudalism and construction were next, preparing for my Spit-out-5xp-units race, in which I want to include Barrage 2 catapults. I didn't yet know whether to switch to theocracy or vassalage so I teched feudalism. Of course, it turned out that it was a no-brainer to go with theocracy, since I wouldn't be building much buildings at that time. Also, it's the favorite civic of 2/3 of the zealots!

Well, it's 1000 AD already!

I built the piramids in 75AD, revolting to Rep (Happy cap of 13-14!!!), parthenon (200), Apostelistic Palace (425), Glibrary (500). After these wonders, I expanded quickly to 8 cities, founding the last in 980 AD

Some shots:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0361.jpg

Little Gilgamesh must be feeling real important, sitting in his big Apostolic Palace.
"I vote for myself". "Ok, I've won! Now, what resolution shall I propose... hmmm... wait... I am the King... I can do whatever the xxxx I want... JAAAAMES!!! Remind me why I built this thing again!"

I shouldn't have bragged about those 2 consecutive good events... sigh..

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0364.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0365.jpg

But that's a small price to pay for this:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0368.jpg

Well, 1000 AD it was I said. I built Ankor Wat in 1030.

I might be meeting isabella soon, so with only 8 warriors as my whole militairy force, I can no longer postpone it. + I want guilds, for better workshops.

So I switch to theocracy, and start churning out 24 vultures and xx catapults from the capital, production city and moai city. The others just keep on whipping infra.

In 1070 I founded divine right so I now have 4 religions again. Good for the free religion civic later. Unfortunately the notre dame gets BIDL too.

then calender, compass, and then:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0369.jpg

Taking nationalism. Since I postpone meeting everybody as long as possible, I don't know were I stand in the race, so I play it safe.

I complete the university of sankore in 1180.

Then Machinery-Guilds for better workshops
Banking-Economics gets me the free Gmerchant, and I start on Banks for Wall Street (I have my city plans ready, you'll see them in a screenshot on the end of this section)

Then I go Alphabet - Printing Press, and...

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0370.jpg

And I finally get out of theocracy anarchy-free, adopting Organized religion and mercantilism.

I already have at least 2 religions (except for confucianism, my state religion, they spread naturally,

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0371.jpg

Which will offset the happiness loss when i switch from rep to univ suffrage. (This turned out to be a mistake, I should've stayed in rep all game long. 20-25 specialists x 3 beakers x multipliers is too much to pass up on, and it is beakers I need, not production.

I built the spiral minnaret, completing my religious economy wonders, and tech constitution (1380) and democracy (1450 AD), for 21 esp points in all cities without slider. Last game, I couldn't even see anyone's demographics. This game, it shall be different!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0372.jpg

I'm now prepared to meet the world: Espionage and 5 units/city. I'm collecting gold now, for upgrading my vultures to macemen, while oxford is being built.

And someone heard me thinking, I guess. In 1490 AD:

pic 374

Contact! And I'm MILES ahead in tech! I first thought she had optics, but apparently it was only a border pop in that one lonely ocean tile.

Nice point for a break!

Empire with city plans:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0375.jpg

Compared to my culture game:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0231.jpg

My 8 Cities:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0376.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0377.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0378.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0379.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0380.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0382.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0383.jpg

And apparantly I forgot one.

Civics

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0384.jpg

Units: 1 warrior, 3 soon-to-be macemen and 1 catapult/city
2 Gartists are saved for golden ages for major civic switching and such

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0385.jpg

Techs

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0386.jpg
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0387.jpg
http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0388.jpg

Info

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0392.jpg

The rest of this story will probably have to wait a day or 2, unless I don't feel like sleeping later this evening. I'm also very happy the way this game is going.

Mikehendi

Jul 05, 2009, 03:04 PM

@Mikehendi:

Your ironworks site is far better suited as a bureau capital and your current capital is far better suited for the ironworks.

You're probably right, but by the time I founded Lagash, My capital already had many far developped cottages (thanks to the hight happy cap, and almost no whipping in this city), so I kept em this way.

It probably was more efficient to cottage my current ironworks city, and then when those cottages were mature, switch Uruk to workshops. I hadn't thought of that in game. I almost never move my capital, I don't know why.

MadmanAtW

Jul 05, 2009, 05:43 PM

I decided to get in on this and play my first RPC. Playing Monarch/Epic.

We've all seen the start, now:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220143&stc=1&d=1246832818

Opening tech path was Fishing->Animal Husbandry->Pottery->Mining->Writing->BW

Turns out I should have put Pottery at the end of that- I didn't wind up building granaries or cottages until after BW anyway.

Opening build path was
Worker until Fishing was done, switch to Work Boat, finish Worker, Settler

I'll skip the "got a tech" screenshots. :)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220144&stc=1&d=1246832980

The whole island.
Then with dotmaps:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220145&stc=1&d=1246833025

Dropped my second city just down the coast. Since there's no need to fight for blocking spots I can settle tight to reduce early maintenance issues.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220146&stc=1&d=1246833089

Long story short, I dropped my 7th city and stopped for now- I'm making use of most of the good tiles. Filling in what gaps remain can wait a bit:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220147&stc=1&d=1246833403
Unfortunately, Bad-Whatever up in the NE corner I accidentally placed in the wrong spot. Probably fine, but I had originally meant to drop it 1NW from there.

Map with dots for the 2 additional city placements (really only getting 2 more cities on the assumption of going for culture):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220148&stc=1&d=1246833403

And my stopping point:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220149&stc=1&d=1246833475
Snagged Shwadegon Paya because I had gold so what the hell, it's a 10% research boost even when I have no religions; saved after finishing the Great Library. Working on the Parthenon but on the assumption that it'll be a source of gold more likely than not. Got the Great Artist from Music, saving him for a golden age probably, though might want to settle him if I decide I'm definitely going culture.

The rest of my tech path was, after BW:
IW (no reason to go for trade bait, wanted to make sure I wasn't going to settle on top of iron) -> Math (finished just in time for my first chops) -> Sailing -> Currency -> Aesthetics -> Myst -> Med (start Paya) -> Poly -> Literature (start GLib) -> Music

next up Calendar, then probably Monarchy for more happy and the naval tech path.

MadmanAtW

Jul 05, 2009, 07:00 PM

Hmm. Forgot I was the Civ that gets Ziggurats, until I got Priesthood on my way to Monarchy. Oops. Also, settled a GS, which may have been contrary to the stated goal of going for Culture. It's early yet, so more science is good, but presumably eventually I'll be turning the science slider off.

I've never done a culture victory by early intent, so I'm kinda winging this one. Wouldn't be surprised if I end up going space in the end- a lot hinges on getting enough religions at home.

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 06, 2009, 12:15 AM

Tale of Atlantis

Rules are NEVER LOSE A CITY. I'm changing them.

Troops never more than 1 turn.

I continue on.

Quick summation, to this point, I was beaten to Liberalism, traded Nationalism with Isobela for Printing press, beelined Democracy now for the statue of Liberty.

Shaka was in red fist mode,and declared upon myself. Sailed one Galleon about my island and went west??? I've no idea what he's up to, unless, he's just gathering a fleet.

Really I have no hope of holding him out, spamming troops left and right, just have to get peace ASAP.

Not going to bother with a run at Chemistry, can't get enough frigates anyway, in the time it'd take.

Shaka lands 3 knights, I kill them with Pikes.

I trade Constitution with Isobela for Democracy, I need frigates now. Shaka's just hooning about with 1 galleon?? I have democracy and 1 Great Engineer in reserve. Trying for Taj Mahal 1st.

Research is sitting at 90%, going for Chemistry now.

I end up giving Shaka Education for peace, I only had Pikes and Castles to hold him out, and he's got Multiple Galleons sailing about my lands.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%203/Shakapeace.jpg

I build the Taj Mahal, and immediately start on the Statue of Liberty, I don't use my Great Engineer, and I have a head start on Justinian, and Isobela.

I've just messed up big time, I traded Democracy to Justinian, and he nor Isobela has Rifling, which Shaka has!!!!! Yikes. I'll have to wear it, I've got a fleet of Frigates watching for his naval stack and a caravel watching his other naval stack in port. He keeps sending Galleons across the bottom of my lands..2 stacks in a pincer??

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%203/Justiniandemocracy.jpg

I received the Quest Guns for butter, and since I have the Taj Mahal, I do a 2 turn civic swap to Vassalage, for the golden age, I'll swap back to Nationalism and Representation at the end of it. I'm only 1 turn off building the remaining muskets required.

I further trade Gunpowder to Isobela, for 2 civic swaps gold and 3 minor tech's.. keeps her happy with me.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%203/Gunpowder.jpg

I really wish now, I'd pushed harder for the Mausoleum of Massaloss, its my 3rd golden age now..:mad:

I now go about rush buying all the drydocks with the gold I've been saving at 0% science. Mass build frigates as well.

The war's on again, Shaka's sending his Galleon's by the dozen to me, and I've rush bought the drydocks, and switched out of Vassalage, mistake, but still in golden age, may switch back. Have 1 Great General, who'll be attached to a frigate for either a super medic or a blitz frigate.

I got peace for 700 gold, as he had another 10 galleons, ready to land troops, and I had run out of frigates to defend with. I've sunk 30 galleons so far, 12 frigates, for the loss of 13 frigates, twice I've lost my medic frigates at 97+%...

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%203/Warstats1.jpg

With the war over, Steam power in, I build Levies in all cities, and keep an eye out for Saladin's naval stack. I have 20 frigates waiting to great him if he comes from the north, and 10 from the west.

I keep the civic's of Vassalage and Theocracy, as it pleases Isobela and Saladin, as much as it can, and if I need to spam more frigates for Shaka, which I will, as he loathes me, I can.

1736 AD I'm currently stuck in my 3rd war with Shaka, twice I've declared war, as he was shipping troops to attack me. Killing all his Frigates and galleons, with some losses at 90%+ :gripe: and was having a run of losing 2/3 battles at 67%.

I've just traded for both Scientific method and rifling, better give it to Saladin, otherwise Mia Bella:love: will just run over the top of him. Saladin's been in red fist mode for a while now as well.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%203/Bellatrades.jpg

The one turn rule just had a close run, Khan, snuck in his troops the first Naval stack I've seen, only because I don't have blitz as yet. I got down to my last Pike man, but I won, defeated 4 cannons and 5 Calvary.

I finally remembered to incorporate Mining Corporation. Duh!!!

I trade Railroad with Justinian, for Biology and Military Science, I now have Blitz enabled. I upgrade my Great General Destroyers to Blitz now, and kill Shaka's navy MULTIPLE TIMES..:mwaha:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%203/Justinianrailroad.jpg

I also off load it to Isobela, for Physics and 270 gold, cat's out of bag, and Shaka's long since had Combustion on me...:faint:

I sell Chemistry to Saladin for 140 gold, got to get him to Cannons, he's now got Calvary, but needs Cannons for defense.

All cities now mass build Jails, for the war Weariness that's starting to seep in, I've lost a few frigates keeping Shaka away.

1832 AD I get the wounded soldiers cop out from war, and take it, as I was having to run 30% culture to off set war weariness.

Bah, so be it, I just want to incorporate Standard Ethanol, and sent Carriers and fighters over to Shaka's lands..

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%203/warstatsNo3.jpg

I'll end my report here, post and continue on. Shaka's got INFANTRY...OOOhhhhh Scary

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 06, 2009, 12:25 AM

The tale of Atlantis

I continue on my merry way.

I actually built the Christo Rendentor, I rushed with a Great Engineer I had spare, trying for Pentagon at moment, and building the other 2 radio wonders. Going for the 3 gorges dam as well, as I need to incorporate Standard Ethanol, can't have Shaka getting that can I.

Isobela, actually beat me to the Pentagon, oh well, lots of cash.

I've gone and declared war on Shaka again, as he was in red fist mode, and he beat me to both Rock and Roll, and the Eiffel tower.

1872 AD I incorporate standard Ethanol, Now I rule the sea's, Isobela's Vassalized Saladin, useless piece of ....

Shaka's just a monster, I think he'll just tech away with it, if I don't keep him in war, as he just adopted police state. He has 90% of his continent to himself, and Genghis just keeps popping out the Great Engineers??

Break time.

Having resumed, and still in this never ending war with Shaka, got to get him off research some how, he's built the 3 gorges dam!! (15 short) and now I'm starting the internet 10 turns behind.

Shaka tried to jump me with a naval stack of; 4 ships of the line, 3 frigates, and 6 Galleons. My Great General blitz Destroyer single handed, destroyed 9 of them and only had to stop due to no movement points, receiving another promotion for his efforts.

Other wise its just sinking Ships of the line/Frigates with Destroyers and Galleons with my frigates, some of which have actually made it as far as Blitz 17/17.

The space race is looking tight, Shaka has the land, but won't adopt Representation. At least while in war with me. I'm looking to the internet to save my research bacon.

I've just refused a trade deal with Isobela, and a demand the next turn for Plastics, now she's in red fist mode. Oh well, my bella:love: couldn't help herself. I now have to pull back my western defense fleet to counter her threat.

How apt, at the Trun of the 20th Century, the Internets in, and I pick up; Laser, flight, Refrigeration, Fascism, Communism, Satellites, Advanced flight, Horseback riding, Rocketry, Artillery, Military tradition and Divine right, and I just finished researching Superconductors.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%204/Internet.jpg

Shaka has Genetics on me, and I think too big a lead in space race, my only hope is to build the space elevator, and pass him in research and building in a golden age, on the engines.

Looking at the Tech's, Shaka is up 2 space tech's, and too big a lead, but I go on..never know.

Mia Bella, decides that she wants a piece of me as well, plenty to go around babe. My Blitz promoted Great General Destroyer, sinks her attacking fleet as well as Saladin's screening frigates, Lovers tiff.

Shaka's built the space elevator, and now he's built Hollywood as well as the U.N. I'm still trying to win a space race, but I don't hold out much hope now. My last hope is a golden age with a 2nd different great person, as I just bulbed part of Fiber Optics with a scientist, to start a 4th golden age. Shaka's just got too much land, even for an idiot in Police state, he's out teching me.

I've adopted Emancipation finally, should have done it much earlier, not enough food to justify specialists, messed up big time there, probably cost me dearly.

May reload from earlier save and see the difference.

I've only just gotten Fiber Optics and Shaka's now gotten Fusion, he only needs the 2 engines and I need multiple space tech's I resign.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%204/Shakastechs.jpg

Shaka's got more land then the continent of Isobela, Saladin and Justinian put together, there is now way I can compete with that. Shaka just got too much land too early, I struggled to hold him out with Astronomy, and he's just powered on from there.

I defeat scored.

JTMacc99

Jul 06, 2009, 08:17 AM

IPEX-731BA5DD06:
Holy cow. That one little picture of the world map in the Internet screen shot tells the story. I don't think I've ever seen a map like that with an AI civ controlling that much land. Forgive me for not going back to find out, but what the heck happened to Japan? At least when he takes the other civs as vassals, it isn't as much help with the space race.

cripp7

Jul 06, 2009, 08:30 AM

I thought I'd try for a Diplo game as I managed to get a 3 way going with Shaka, Khan and Toku having both Shaka & Khan at friendly!! (first time I've done that, and especially on monarch!) Signing a 3way defensive pact with them should keep the zealots from attacking.
http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp175/cripp777/Civ4ScreenShot0005-4.jpg

Izzy was busy with Sal and making demands from me send her to annoyed. Screw it, I sick Toku on her.

Funny thing was I was trading Bio and Communism to the 3some but they yet to have Astro!

Beelined MM and rushbuilt the U.N. but Shaka won the Secretary General and I stop there. My coastal cities steady building frigates. But Shaka is getting way ahead in techs so I'm kinda stuck.

Can one of you take a look at my save and give me some pointers. Should I call quits or what's your thoughts. I'd really appreciate some input here

Mikehendi

Jul 06, 2009, 04:39 PM

Part 3, Monarch, Normal speed, from 1490 AD 1896

SO, 1490 AD, just made first contact with Isabella, and discovered Gunpowder this turn. Next turn we meet saladin, who is also behind in tech a lot. He already has optics however, so I research it in 1 turn, build 2 caravels in the next turn and send 'em out.

We make this trade with saladin:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0396.jpg

Which also gives us +4 diplo for fair trade.

Tech corporation, chemistry, steel. About everyone has adopted mercantilism now, so no foreign trade routes, so I keep postponing astronomy for a while

We've met everyone but justinian in 1535, here's the tech situation:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0402.jpg

Shaka let's us buy a world map, which is needed for the circumnav.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0403.jpg

I met Toku by his caravel, so I hope I still make it.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0404.jpg

And in 1555 I do! Time for making some ships, so I research mili science, for 8 strength ship-of-the-lines, who have +50% against frigates, which the AI's seem to use a lot.
and in 1575, the colossus is going down!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0406.jpg

I have drydocks for +4XP in most cities, but I burn a Gartist on a golden age, and change civics when the first ship is about to be completed. I set the science slider to 0, to collect a lot of gold. I've got Banks in most cities, AND just completed wall street!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0410.jpg

I complete the SOL in 1585, and meet justinian, who lets be buy a world map of his continent.

A good thing I have money:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0412.jpg

This would've been disastrous, as I wouldn't have been able to produce ships of the line in those brief 8 turns... In 1615, the Golden Age is coming to an end, so I re adjust civics:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0414.jpg

Free Market is a HUGE mistake, because the rest of the world has mercantilism or won't open borders... I miss out on 8 rep powered specialists!
I keep theocracy for 5 XP land units and diplo (building some cannons), but in 1630:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0416.jpg

But other cities have confucianism now also via astronomy, which allows me to actually do something with my AP.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0417.jpg

Hahaha, payback time you . .. .. .. .. .!

My empire may be smaller than those of the warmongers, but they WILL obey me!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0418.jpg

Kind of overwhelming, hehehe.

KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0419.jpg

I'm asked to declare on toku, and I do so for diplo, and in 1700 I'm at peace again, having teched

Steam power, Rifling, Assembly line and physics (I saw Shaka was reasearching it, so I snagged it away!

then communism and fasicm get me a Gspy and a GG (Finally 5XP units without civic help)

The Gspy starts another golden age, with help of a great artist, and I sitch civics again:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0423.jpg

I finally switch to caste, together wit SP they make Uber Workshops, get rid of that nasty free market, and get back to Org Reg for even more production.

Electricity, Mili trad, railroad, and I get shaka to friendly!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0433.jpg

Which in retrospect is useless, since he needs to be slowed down...

Combustion gives me some Oil, and soon absolute control of the seas.
I've built the kremlin (which I later haven't used much) and broadway and later the eiffel tower, Rock and Roll and Hollywood, and the cristo redentor, which I then forgot about and I didn't use it... sigh...

I need health desperately, so next up is biology and medicine. Even with public transportation and hospital it stays bad... So after radio I tech refrigeration for supermarkets, which temporarily solve my health probs.

Check my production city: (At some point I popped Coal in this game, I forgot to note when. Also, I accidentaly buil Ironworks in the Capital!!! I didn't even notice I made a mistake until about 20 turns after completion!!! Rather than replaying 40 long turns, I called World Builder Big Cranes Inc., and they sent a GIANT crane to move the Ironworks to Lagash...)

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0438.jpg

I DOWed shaka to slow him down in 1844, sinking a loat of boats with hopefully a lot of troops! Destroyers really OWN anything at this point. I also upgraded my combat 2 Shock macemen to infantry for 5500 gold. Shock promoted infantry... Gunpowder units don't count as melee, do they?

Next up is Mass Media, and I just in time remember NOT to build the UN, As Shaka, who has everyone vasseled, WILL win diplomatically. My smallish empire won't stand a chance!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0441.jpg

I'm second in power, but Shaka's power is twice as high!

In 1882 I make peace with Shaka, as I thought my research rate was suffering, just 880 beakers/turn. Check out the difference:

War:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0442.jpg

Peace:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0445.jpg

Does warring cost you so much??? Can anyone explain this huge difference?

Oh, and while I researched industrialisation and then plastics for the 3G dam (I didn't want coal plants, as unhealthyness was already pressing, Shaka completed Apollo program (But check out my 9 base hammer aluminium tile!)

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0446.jpg

He also isn't that far away from domination, but except for sinking his boats, I can't really stop him there...

Shaka caught up in techs FAST, probably trading with his vassals like crazy. 3 civs already have flight and artillery, shaka and genghis have rocketry.

But... I've unlocked Computers to research :D :D :D... This will be the first time I will feel the power of the Internet!

It's 1896 AD, I think a good time for another break

Mikehendi

Jul 06, 2009, 04:43 PM

Very late Check point 1

ORP challenge-Atlantis

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Check%20point%201/Island10AD.jpg

O yeah,

Why do you have such a nice dotmap feature while I'm busy for 45 minutes drawing wibbely wobbely lines over tile borders I cannot see?

How can I get it?

r_rolo1

Jul 06, 2009, 04:44 PM

^^BtS Unaltered Gameplay Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=268) ( also known as BUG )

Mikehendi

Jul 06, 2009, 05:04 PM

Thanks. I have BUG, but I might have been running an old version. Updating now. (If I still can't find how to do it, I'll ask again)

Edit (rather than a new post, I'm spamming this topic enough already :S ): Also thanks to cripp7 below this post! You guys have saved days of my life!

cripp7

Jul 06, 2009, 05:18 PM

Thanks. I have BUG, but I might have been running an old version. Updating now. (If I still can't find how to do it, I'll ask again)

Questions about The BUG Mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242396) Alt-X to bring up the dotmapper, right-click an empty tile or alt-x to exit. enjoy

Mikehendi

Jul 07, 2009, 06:03 AM

Last part, monarch, normal speed, 1898 - 1963

In 1896 we continue, Researching computers while shaka completed apollo program. The very next turn, genghis (who is no longer shaka's vassal) also completes apollo!

in 1904 I complete computers research, and built the 3 Gorges Dam, giving power to all my cities, and +2 unhealthiness (which I didn't expected!), starving my cities again. So I start beeline Genetics via superconductors.

In 1912 I finish the internet, giving me artillery, flight and

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0450.jpg

So Lagash immediately starts on the Apollo Program! I believe the internet secured a space victory, it is a really powerful thing to build. As long as the UN isn't built, things will be OK.

A Tornado destroys a Town in Eridu, which is replace by a watermill

I finish Apollo in 1917, in 1918 I get +3 Health from genetics and my Cities are Back in Action!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0455.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0457.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0458.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0459.jpg

I've got 5 Gpeople, And I burn 3 of them on another Golden Age, keeping a Gspy and a Gprophet. I'll get a Gengeneer from fusion, and I've got a 95% chance to pop a different 4th from Eridu (only 5% Gprophet failure), for my final golden age.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0460.jpg

A peak at the Glorious empire of Atlantis @ 1920:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0461.jpg

I get Fission from the internet in 1921, so as soon I finished Fiber Optics I researched Fusion (finished 1931). I've got time enough to construct 2 engines. Genghis DOW's me, don't care.

At the end of the Golden Age I choose the research-orientated civics, as it's the weakest link. I realize I've been in High Upkeep Org Reg, while being in no state religion... Forgot to change it back...

Tech goes Sattelites (1936), composites (1942), adv flight from internet, ecology (1948), laser (1950) for SDI, just in case, and I stopped research.

Others are also building spaceship parts, but the are way to slow.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0469.jpg

Shaka and his Gang DOW me, I'm being careful not to let any ships land so I'll be OK.

I get a good Gperson, and start my 5th(!) Golden age (1 from Taj). Why O why didn't I try to build the MOM??? 20 extra turns of golden age for free! OMG FAIL!

I switch to Univ Suffrage, costing me much research for a little extra production.

And behold, the Glorious Cities of Atlantis, at their best!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0473.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0474.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0475.jpg

Check out the 10 hammer aluminium tile in Lagash:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0476.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0477.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0478.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0479.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0480.jpg

Blitz Rules:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0482.jpg

In 1 turn he get's from 17 to 26 XP, allowing his next promotion!

and:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0483.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0486.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0487.jpg

10 Turns to victory! To just get it over with quickly, I buy 10 turn peace treaties:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0488.jpg

Genghis looks like he knows the bad news already!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0489.jpg

So... cruising along... but then, 4 turns before victory, my nightmare comes true!!!

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0491.jpg

I vote for Genghis, but as powerful as I was with the AP, now it's Shaka who has absolute control

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0492.jpg

I just hope no vote comes up before I win. I don't know the mechanics of the UN very well.

So, about 1 terribly long minute later...

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0494.jpg

Phew... that was close!

Some more pics:

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0495.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0496.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0497.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/mikehendi/Civ4ScreenShot0498.jpg

JTMacc99

Jul 07, 2009, 08:26 AM

Last part, monarch, normal speed, 1898 - 1963

Phew! That was a close one!

I can't believe I'm the only one who set up the destroyer moat to protect Atlantis. I sure seemed like the thing to do once I started spamming them.

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 07, 2009, 09:32 PM

@JTMacc99 What happened is Tokugowa was dogpiled first by Genghis Khan, then Shaka came in and ELIMINATED HIM in 695 AD. Then General Dumb A, Genghis Khan, declares war on Shaka, loses a city 1st turn, and from there capitulated in 1295 AD.

From there, well really, from 695 or even 400 yr's before, shaka was a monster. Heres some graphs to Demonstrate what I'm saying.

Graphs of Civ's.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Example%20Shaka/Graphs.jpg

Demographics

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Example%20Shaka/Demos.jpg
As you can see, I'd fallen to 4th, and Shaka was 8 times my production & research ergo. Shaka is at least 4 times me, if not 8 or more in others

Kills to 1872 I haven't got a save for when I resign in 1930 or abouts

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Example%20Shaka/Kills.jpg

Yeah, sunk a lot of troops, have to replay with ships of the line, I almost never built them.

I'm going to replay this from a save in 1200 or so, just to see if I do a couple of things different, how it affects the outcome.

UWHabs

Jul 07, 2009, 10:19 PM

Very popular RPC. My attempt at a space victory (did culture before). This one went easier:

Same plan as last time. Settle 1S. Build a second city. Get Oracle. Get Pyramids. Found religions. Ended up with 4 religions, 4 shrines. AW priests. All that let me run most of the game with the slider at 100% and still making money.

Shaka was strong, and if he really went for a victory, he would have had a good chance. Most powerful, but he ended up with a couple wars against Toku which would probably be quite tough. But he did some space, and some conquering, and so didn't really have a chance.

No screen shots, since I was lazy, but definitely saw the power of a priest economy. With 4 shrines, that was a big chunk of change to play with. Never mind 4 religions = 4 temples per city, so happiness wasn't a big issue. And with all that land, I was whipping like crazy. Running mostly priests meant I didn't necessarily need caste. Then switched to FR, and now I had 4 temples and 4 religions per city, so my cities weren't unhappy until they hit like 15+.

A fun map. With such good land, makes it quite enjoyable to play.

JTMacc99

Jul 08, 2009, 07:14 AM

IPEX: So, you sank over 230 ships? Heh. It seems like once Shaka got control of all that land for himself, the chances for a space race win are not very good..

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 08, 2009, 12:45 PM

Atlantis Re-dux

Ok I've reloaded from a save Circa 1278 AD and played on

I've adopted Organized religion, as I'm just building buildings, researched Astronomy, for trade routes and observatories, then Gunpowder, chemistry, Military science (ships of the line) and Steel (dry docks)

Shaka's, who's been in red fist mode for most of the time, declared war, and has only sailed 15+ Galleons past my southern seas. I've only got warriors in cities, and will play a no troops landing variation.

I got the Marathon golden age, once he declared war, with a galleon in my sea's (trigger) and switched to Slavery and vassalage, I'm going to whip out Frigates now, with buildings if only 1 pop whip first. I'm going to have to whip 2 or 3 frigates per city at least.

ALL CITIES go onto build frigates non stop, 8 turn on military science, whipping for 2 pop or 1 pop, frigates, frigates and more frigates.

NO troops landed :confused:, sunk 5 galleons already, 2 caravels and sending out on sentry for more attacks. Have to guard against Khan from the North.

1520 AD I now have ship of the line enabled, going for steel. I've got a sentry line out covering the eastern sea, but spread a bit thin, the western sea, has only 2 sentry posts, with 10 frigates at one, and 1 at the lower 2nd. I Great General is born, I'll join him to a Ship of the line, and send East, to boost my defenses. Troops are Warriors only and will remain so, NO TROOPS SHALL SOIL THE SCARED SOIL OF ATLANTIS.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Warstats1520ad.jpg

As can be seen from the war statistics, I've sunk an invasion force or 3 so far. I've no idea, what Shaka was up to, when he first declared war. No invasion, just sailing galleons east and west?? I've had to whip 2/3 Frigates per city, and will whip a Dry dock as well, but just build ships of the line now.

1572 AD Steel is in, I now research Nationalism, for the Taj Mahal, if I get so lucky, then its Democracy for Statue of Liberty. Lost one frigate to a dual frigate attack from Shaka, SOB I've now got ships of the line in most outward sentry posts.

I've lost the Taj race 2 turns later, Justinian, must have gotten Nationalism in a trade from Isobela, and immediately built it with a Great Engineer he popped 1 turn before :gripe:, thems the breaks. Mia Bella, who's in red fist mode, I assume Shaka or Saladin, as I'm +6, is going for constitution now, race for the Statue of Liberty

I've just received the Guns for butter Quest again, don't think I'll bother this time, as I don't have Taj Mahal.

Quest14: Guns Butter Pre req: GUNPOWDER Obsolete: RIFLING or RAILROAD Active/Weight: 30/200 Aim: Build default number of players for this world size +1 Musket men (8 for standard) Result: 1.All Musket man units gain the Pinch promotion 2.IF Vassalage civic gain 400 gold 3.IF you control the Taj Mahal wonder trigger a golden age

Nah, said I'd stay with Warriors, with no Taj Mahal, not worth it.

Building Dry docks and Iron works in Uruk, move capital to Capital city as well, for gold bonuses, under Bureaucracy.

I make a trade with Justinian for Printing press, he was Hassling me for Chemistry, so I did it, speeds up Democracy for me.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Justinianchemistry.jpg

I just had Mia Bella:love: come by demanding gunpowder, I gave in as she had fallen to Cautious, I've then traded it off to Saladin for 340 gold, Justinian has gunpowder as I traded Chemistry with him.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/SaladinGunpowder.jpg

I also go around and delete all the frigates with less then 5 experience, if they have sufficient Ships of the line with them to take up duties. Keep a few about to sink Galleons, or on sentry duty. I also adjust the cities back to mainly buildings as I have sufficient naval forces for the moment I feel. Need more commerce buildings, as I have all observatories built.

1634 Constitution is in, I do a 3 civic's switch to Caste system, Bureaucracy, and Representation. I've a great Engineer awaiting the Building of the statue of Liberty, or mining Corp, think I'll hold for mining corp, as I'm building Ironworks in Uruk to speed along Statue of Liberty, with bureaucracy in Capital of Uruk.

Democracy is in, I build Jails in ALL CITIES, except Uruk, which finishes off Ironworks for 1 turn, then Statue of Liberty and jail. Replaceable parts in next, 10 turns, then beeline combustion, scientific method.

I've just found Shaka's main naval stack, as I moved my sentries west forward 5 places and places my sighted Sentry frigate in Mia Bella's:love: lands. I move all Ships of the line and frigates to intercept this naval stack of doom.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Shakasmainnavalstack.jpg

SOB the Monkey Excretment, Saladin, decides to attack me with a naval stack now, I have to pull ships off sentry and mass build them again. Shaka's got about 30 ships coming for me in about 5 naval stacks. I'm just sinking the screening frigates then the galleons, the sole frigates, of which there is a stack of 6, I'll leave alone for the moment. I've lost 2 ships of the line in the latest round of battles at 95% or higher odds :gripe:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Saladinsnavalstack.jpg

I move all available ship of the line to intercept Shaka, attacking out of Mia Bella's:love: lands.

I don't have a full count of what was sunk, but its about 15 galleons 15 Frigates from Shaka, 6 Caravels and 3 Galleons from Saladin. Good think I didn't trade him Chemistry. I lost 2 or 3 Ships of the line, and have gone back to building 2/city except Uruk, which is on the Statue of Liberty.

Moving ships back to position now, I also lost my sighted frigate to a frigate attack from Shaka, so I have to build a new one and promote it to sight with victory. I now have 6 Ships of the line, guarding against further incursions from Saladin. GD piece of Monkey Excretment.

Shaka, has researched Education, and is just sending his attacking units in dribs and drabs, with Khan and Saladin sending the occasional unit.

1750 AD I've built the Statue of Liberty, currently teching railroads/Corporation, I do a civic's switch into Emancipation, as I don't have enough food to justify Caste system, and too small an empire as well.

This is where I feel I messed up last time, I'll see if it makes a difference or not. Shaka can now research combustion as well as Khan, really they are 1. I want Corporation 1st for Mining corp, then Combustion, trade for scientific method, or now, beeline Super conductors through refrigeration.

I do a dual civic's switch to Emancipation and Free Religion, I thought about Theocracy, but until Saladin's vassalized, no. I'm equal to Mia Bella:love: on power with just shipping, and she's pleased, hates Shaka and Saladin more then me, and Justinian has gone back to Judaism again.

1759 A GG was born for Shaka, with no fighting, unless it came from my sinking his Frigate.

I make a trade with Bella, mainly to gain Drama and Economics, and she's gone into red fist mode, but is friendly with me, so its either Saladin, Justinian if he's broken free or Shaka (I doubt). I now adopt Free market, for the trade routes and build Customs houses all over the lands.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Chemistry.jpg

I now trade off Military science to Isobela for Corporation, as she's now friendly. Racing to Railroad to obtain Mining Corporation, with my 2 great Engineers available.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Izzycorporation.jpg

I now trade off steel for Scientific Method, world maps and some gold with Justinian. If its Justinian, might as well be both, :lol: Saladin's too far behind to worry about. I hold off for 1 turn, I want to get Physics for steel and Steam power, plus some thing else from Isobela.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Justiniansteel.jpg

I'm now racing to Combustion, as Shaka now has Ships of the line available.

I've incorporated Mining corporation, its now Combustion, then beeline Refrigeration and super conductors. I've forgone the Pentagon, the Fascism Great General, really I should just attach all to destroyers/ships of the line. I also adopt free market for the extra trade routes.

I trade with Isobella; Steam power and Steel for Physics and theology.

1800 AD I've just built the oil well, and up graded my ships of the line to Destroyers, I feel safe now, can't be invaded, and I'm blockading the only route in for Isobela, just in case.

I also incorporate Creative Constructions, to stop Shaka getting any hammer bonuses, I've forgone Christo Rendentor now, don't use it much anyway. All the Media wonders, Shaka probably will get anyway, can't help that.

I don't believe it, I first lose 1 destroyer to a Iron clad at 98%, then I lose the 2nd at 70% defending to a frigate. :gripe:, must have killed too many ships so far.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Warstats1812.jpg

I now offload Railroad; 1st to Justinian for Biology and Electricity, then to Izzy for Rifling, 30 gold, adopt free market, and stop trading with Shaka, well, won't last long, but hopefully I'll go back to friendly with her now.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Railroad1.jpg

Then Mia Bella :love:

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Railroad2.jpg

Really, I now have to treat Justinian and Izzy as one player, but I can trade the same item twice to them, :mwaha:

1827 AD Refrigeration is in, I build Supermarkets and public transports all over, now its super conductors in 28 turns.

1844 I receive the inflation event, I've been hording cash for that and the warlords events, 25% less inflation for 253 gold, yes please, now I'm 65+ve at 90% research.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Inflationevent.jpg

I make a trade with Mia Bella:love:, biology for Assembly line and a few trinkets.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Assemblyline.jpg

she wouldn't go free market, full on hammers is Mia Bella:love:

and so ends part 1, part 2 will contain victory :thumbsup: or defeat :sad:

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 08, 2009, 01:00 PM

Tale of Atlantis, redux part 2

I continue on with my quest, no footsteps have soiled our fair land so far.

Shaka got a great Scientist, which had me panicking, but he burnt him on a golden age, Phew. I need to incorporate Standard Ethanol.

I trade Refrigeration to Izzy for Industrialism, and will swing a trade Justinian's way for Radio now.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Izzyindustrialism.jpg

I trade Refrigeration and combustion for radio with Justinian, like I said, like 1 person, but multiple trades.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Radio.jpg

Shaka's onto computers and such, he's got a huge tech lead, I need to hurry up, building factories allover , most Laboratories are finished now.

July 1899 Shaka's built the internet now, I have to out research with raw science now, but I think I'm shot. I have 6 destroyers blockading 3 of his cites in a inner bay area, and Shaka constantly attacks them with air ships, but won't build a missile??, Might have a shot at the 3 gorges dam.

1902 AD I trade Plastics for flight from Isobela, and next turn I'll trade Justinian Plastics for Rocketry.

I also just requested Hit singles from him, and he gave them to me..

1906 AD I lose to a diplomatic victory by Shaka Khan and his Vassal Genghis Khan, I may have had a hope in space race, but will play on and see.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/DiplomaticVictory.jpg

ANOTHER DEFEAT, Shaka's just got too much land,

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Victories.jpg

Really Shaka could have won a domination victory, by just fully eliminating Genghis Khan, that's what I would have done.

He's just too big, I missed internet this time, but he's just flown past me in tech's, as he should with all that land, idiot or not, kept in perpetual war since 1400's. Really he's just too big.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/IPEX-731BA5DD06/CIV%204%20PHOTO%20SHOTS/Role%20Playing%20Challanges/Atlantis/Atlantis%20redux%201278/Warstats.jpg

Fun game, give it away now..play again, maybe later.

Thanks Mad Scientist, and thanks for not fixing the original save as well.. :lol: :cheers:

RyanZ

Jul 10, 2009, 03:01 AM

What a fun game! Culture victory, 1951, on Prince. What was most interesting about my game:

Everyone liked me! Not a single war on Atlantean soil.
http://ryanzachary.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

I discovered 3 of the late religions and credit my good standing on being able to switch to free religion the turn optics was discovered and I was no longer isolated, I only wish I was able to send missionaries to the brawler's continent as no one on that continent founded a religion and since I had the AP I could have had a good old time with holy wars

That being said, one of my worst scores since moving to Prince

JTMacc99

Jul 10, 2009, 06:21 AM

Well, the low score is in no small part due to the limits of the RPC.

dalamb

Jul 11, 2009, 03:24 PM

original faulty plan 4000 - 1320 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8228087#post8228087)
revised plan 4000-1640 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8229045#post8229045)
1640 BC - 620 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8230786&postcount=70)
620-1180 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8231984#post8231984)

Working towards a cultural win, I've finally reached the point where I can calculate how much longer it will take.
With the 7 Great Artists I have, and 1 more I can expect to get, and with switching to Free Speech, and running 100% culture, it'll take 74 turns; I'm at turn 241 out of 500 now. Unfortunately about 1 turn in 4 has to run at 100% gold to make up for the money lost at 100% culture, so that would seem to mean it'll be about 104 turns instead. I'm running Mercantilism; I think I need to trade for Astronomy with Saladin or Justinian, give up on the Colossos income, and hope for overseas trade to raise my commerce rate enough to make a difference.

I'm 5 turns from Combustion, the last tech from the list I discussed (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8233611&postcount=86) with JTMacc99 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8233718&postcount=88), which will get my monopoly on oil (and thus destroyers), which should protect me from whoever might choose to invade. I wasn't sure about going off to find the AIs, but decided I wanted the extra movement for my destroyers, so in 1420 AD I traded Shaka's map for some cash, and:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1430circ.jpg

I'm in about the middle of the pack with regard to power, but expect to start climbing that my production cities have nothing worth building besides units; some of them also have decent commerce, so I built banks and unversities in them previously.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1822power.jpg
The unknown is Shaka; I'll need to spend a few turns at 100% espionage to figure out how well he's doing. He does have the highest score:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1822vic.jpg

I may be in danger of a cultural win by Saladin; he's ahead of me in his best city, but I'm ahead in the others, and "100+" for the culture-per-turn rate isn't all that informative; I'm at 500+ when running 100% culture. I'm not sure how safe I am from someone else' diplomatic or space win on Noble, but I don't think I can win any other VC than cultural at this point. Tokugawa is a little ahead of me on score, likely from conquests -- I've seen a few war announcements, though I haven't paid a lot of attention to them. From the VC screen and guessing about relative distances, I can guess that Shaka is ahead of Toku.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1822score.jpg

I'm doing OK on manufacturing compared to the others; the recent drop is from building culture in my legendary cities.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1822mfg.jpg

Edit: slight backupShaka and Isabella, who are both each others' worst enemies, DoW'd me on the same turn, 1848. I backed up to 1814 to do some trading a little earlier than I previously did -- rifling from Justinian, so I could build better defences -- and focused on getting Combustion faster than I'd done before.

I got an offer of a defensive pact from Saladin. Nobody seems to be worse than Cautious with him, so he doesn't seem likely to drag me into any new wars. I wondered if we were allowed to accept such pacts, but I suppose I can always support him with my destroyers even if I can't send troops.

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 12, 2009, 04:12 AM

JTMacc99

Jul 12, 2009, 05:24 AM

dalamb

Jul 12, 2009, 06:48 AM

JTMacc99

Jul 12, 2009, 07:26 AM

@IPEX,JTMacc99:If I understand the War Weariness mechanics, isn't it better to kill the enemy ships inside your own cultural borders? I did build enough destroyers in time, the second time through, to fend off two stacks of Shaka's invaders, but may need a few more.

On the other hand, Shaka "protected" his galleons with large stacks of caravels; I had to chew through all of those before getting to the invading troops, so they got quite close to landing. I don't understand why that was possible: caravels are strength 3, galleons 4, so why didn't his stack defend with the stronger galleons? Is there some special mercy that troop-carrying galleons get attacked last?

After taking its one attack, each destroyer moved to block someplace the galleons could have gone to land their troops, but if I'd had even one less destroyer he'd have managed to set foot on the holy soil of Atlantis -- which, if I read Mad's RPC correctly, is a no-no even aside from the tactical issues.

The caravels were probably promoted to be better defenders. I don't remember any specifics about them being better defenders than galleons for any other reason.

Speaking of promotions, you might want to consider picking up Military Science if you can. The Blitz promotion is hugely entertaining in this game. One Blitz destroyer can wipe out entire stacks.

You are probably right about war weariness, but in my game it wasn't too hard to remain at peace once I had the moat set up. It also didn't hurt that I started spamming battleships to keep the power rating up.

I admit, the destroyer moat was an unusual move, and in any other game, would be kind of stupid. However, in this game, it seemed true to the concept as well as eliminating the endless amount of repositioning ships to block off the surviving galleons. For me, it felt like a WWII ship shooting down the first 29 kamikaze attacks but still having the 30th one sneak through. By literally circling the island with destroyers, I put an end to that problem.

Pluton

Jul 13, 2009, 12:45 PM

@ De Lamb Defending with Destroyers is the way to go, look at my game, that will giver you an idea of how to set up a sentry picket line, 5 tiles apart diagonally and Horizontally.

I made mine 2 deep, so 5 out from coast, 5 to sentry point 2, and keep a stack of Destroyers forward on the most likely lines of attack.

I was able to fight Shaka, from Mia Bella's:love: lands, with a sight promoted Frigate or Galleon, you can see them coming and pick them off.

This defensive strategy was not sufficient for me. I tried a space victory and Shaka was the only one technical advanced enough to beat me.
I declared war myself to slow him down with war weariness, wasting hammers in ships and i used the destroyers more offensivly by blocking all of his coast cities.
This denies him traderoutes and working the sea (sea food!money! and therefore research) . With this methode , he will not send ships to your continent. He attacks your blockade with ironclads, which are meaner than frigates, but as HE attacks YOU,
it saves you the stress to hutn his ships.

In the end, it was not enough .. His spaceship launched 6 turns before mine :cry::cry:
But the tactics is valid, it was only too late to use it on him.

JTMacc99

Jul 13, 2009, 01:59 PM

This defensive strategy was not sufficient for me. I tried a space victory and Shaka was the only one technical advanced enough to beat me.
I declared war myself to slow him down with war weariness, wasting hammers in ships and i used the destroyers more offensivly by blocking all of his coast cities.
This denies him traderoutes and working the sea (sea food!money! and therefore research) . With this methode , he will not send ships to your continent. He attacks your blockade with ironclads, which are meaner than frigates, but as HE attacks YOU,
it saves you the stress to hutn his ships.

In the end, it was not enough .. His spaceship launched 6 turns before mine :cry::cry:
But the tactics is valid, it was only too late to use it on him.

In most of the games I've read through here, Space was going to be really hard, simply because one of the AI civs usually gained control of a lot of land. Taking the war to Shaka certainly seems like a better way to go about it once he's attempting to build a spaceship.

I have two thoughts on that. First, is it more efficient to sit in the coastal waters, where the ironclads can actually reach you but with the defensive bonus, or is it better to set up the blockades in ocean tiles?

Second, I was surprised how easilly I was able to take on a vassal once I declared war late in the game with nothing more than the intention of destroying ships with my battleships and submarines. Since my game didn't feature all of the other civs becoming vassals of either Shaka or Toku, I've been wondering what would have happened if I had declared war on all of the weaker civs once my navy-driven power rating got really high. I think it might have been possible to have won a diplo-mation victory, just by securing a lot of votes for myself without ever landing a troop on foreign soil.

Pluton

Jul 14, 2009, 03:04 PM

In most of the games I've read through here, Space was going to be really hard, simply because one of the AI civs usually gained control of a lot of land. Taking the war to Shaka certainly seems like a better way to go about it once he's attempting to build a spaceship.

I have two thoughts on that. First, is it more efficient to sit in the coastal waters, where the ironclads can actually reach you but with the defensive bonus, or is it better to set up the blockades in ocean tiles?

I recommend the coastal waters position. I created battlegroups consisting of 1 battleship & 2 Destroyers (against his airships, one with medic I promotion).

They hold a looooong time against him and ironclads against battleship (will nearly always defend) with the defense bonus even better odds as frigate against destroyer.

He may also continue to build frigate/galeons if he cannot reach you with irocnclads.

but... maybe you should allow that... to kill the land units aboard and also destroy the production of inland cities you cannot reach wiht that.

Sian

Jul 15, 2009, 04:20 AM

meh ... lost ...

with 15 turns to go before my space ship landed i declared on warmonger party to keep their naval stacks from attacking Religous party (slightly tricky since Genghis, which was the master over there had demanded Uranium from Shaka), which initially worked fine enough ... expect that i left a hole over at my capital which Isabella used to ship a crapload of units over to my lightly defended capital (see ... i didn't expect anyone from that direction and trusted my battleship moat), which had to be broken shortly for fighting off Genghis) ... even though i moved everything noncritical to my capital (including draftees) she captured it on turn 2 of the war with her

dalamb

Jul 15, 2009, 05:05 PM

IPEX-731BA5DD06

Jul 15, 2009, 06:14 PM

@ De Lamb Let the AI's have the espionage, nothing you can do anyway.

Disband all defenders except 1, Guard coast with Destroyers. Challenge is 'no foreign foot shall set foot on the fair soils of Atlantis'

Now take that as you will, never lose a city, never a foreign troop, never survive more than 1 turn.

1 defender/ city, guard sea routes with Destroyers, post out in overlaying layers to give sight 10-15 tiles out.

Civic's seem right. forward defense and declare on AI stacks sailing towards you, they generally attack along set Vectors.

dalamb

Jul 16, 2009, 08:13 PM

original faulty plan 4000 - 1320 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8228087#post8228087)
revised plan 4000-1640 BC (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8229045#post8229045)
1640 BC - 620 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8230786&postcount=70)
620-1180 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8231984#post8231984)
1180 - 1822 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8255593&postcount=121)
1822-1902 AD (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8267826&postcount=130)
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1972culturewin.jpg
I followed IPEX' advice, which reduced my military to a single spy and rifleman in each city, plus all the destroyers; as a result, while building wealth in non-legendary cities, I had positive gold at 100% culture. It took me about 40 minutes to hit ENTER 72 times, interspersed with a little bit of fighting off Shaka's hopeless invasions.

Unfortunately, late cultural wins on Noble don't impress the fans:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/placeinhistory.jpg

Several of the others were significantly ahead in score and power:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1972score.jpghttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1972power.jpg

It occurs to me that the power graph is highly misleading, since nobody could match my destroyers and they had no way to reach me overland. Eventually somebody might have achieved nuclear power and built a stronger navy, but right at the end Shaka and Tokugawa's power was meaningless.

A couple of minor highlights:

Uruk went legendary 6 turns ahead of the others instead of the expected 5:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1944songwriter.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1966Uruklegendary.jpg

And I managed two of these by the end, having traded with someone - Izzy, I think - for Military Science:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/dalamb54/singles/Atlantis%20RPC/1945blitzdestroyer.jpg

Unfortunately Shaka wasn't sending stacks, and I only managed a maximum of 2 kills in one turn with one of the blitz destroyers; killing off a major stack would have been a spot of fun amidst the tedium.Personal evaluation:I made several significant mistakes, the main one being: miscalculating culture rates, so that I thought Kish would be a legendary city instead of Uruk. I settled a GG and built the Heroic Epic in Uruk, when they should have gone to Kish. If I'd been able to save two of the 4 art bombs that went to Uruk, one for each of the other two legendary cities, I'd likely have finished earlier. I know how to write a better culture calculator, but have been a bit lazy about it.

This is only my 6th win at Noble, though, so probably I shouldn't feel too bad; a win is a win.