I've seen a lot of posts in outdated/old threads about starting a new SW Mod. Unfortunately, because half of them are old and being revived, I can't actually tell what kind of progress is being made.

If you want my assistance in anything, I'd be happy to help. I can do XML and Python coding. I'm not an incredible modder, but I'm not a horrible one either.

So, I have two questions. First, how many people/who is actually involved in this new mod? Second, what is being planned? A Final Frontier type mod? A "Civ 3 Star Trek mod" type mod (with planets seperate from star systems)?

In the same boat as the guy above.

We all are the threads haven't been posted in for a year or more in most cases so what do we do?
Well TC01 can Help with making a multi plot planet map script for us.
Jawa you can navigate through the old threads and find any useful graphics or XML files
And I'll see if we can put these all Together
You guys okay with that.

Make new threads? Like they did in the Arda mod? An introductory thread saying "these people are working on the mod", "this is what we are planning", "these threads are outdated", and "we need this from the community"?

Do you want one plot for planet? Or more than one plot for a planet?


To me, it makes the most sense to start fresh with a mod of Final Frontier for Star Wars, just like Star Trek, Babylon 5, Peacekeeper Wars, and M002Civ. Get civs, units, buildings, leaders, etc. in first. I see that you would want ground battles of a sort, and I'm wondering if the way this would work best would be to make scenario mods that focused on ground terrain, and a major mod in space.

Kind of how like the Eugenics Wars scenario is part of the Star Trek mod, but it is really just a scenario for Civ 4, with only a few changes, taking place on an Earth map.

I was thinking a 9 plot planet

I was thinking a 9 plot planet

I guess you could do it, but you'd run into difficulties, the first one being getting a lot of planetary graphics.

The simplest way to do it would be to start in Civ 4, then, rather than Final Frontier, because while nothing is strictly hardcoded in Final Frontier, the python for the solar system is rather heavily... encoded... in the python. But, you'd use FF graphics for nebula, space terrain, asteroids, etc.

Are you thinking for the planet to be terrain or feature? My advice would be to make it feature, that way you can take advantage of the "multiple graphics per feature" (the Forest is one feature, but has four different graphics) and show planetary variation- that is, each planet would look different. You'd need to have it be something like this:

FEATURE_PLANET_CORE (Center of planet)
FEATURE_PLANET_EDGE (Edges of planet)

Then, I could have the mapscript place where it normally places a solar system a FEATURE_PLANET_CORE, and around it place FEATURE_PLANET_EDGE. The FF mapscript normally places flood plains around a solar system to prevent other things from being placed too close. I would simply replace that with FEATURE_PLANET_EDGE.

Sound good?

That would definitely work you could do it than post the files that makes it work here please and any graphics that we could use to create this mod are you okay being are python expert

That would definitely work you could do it than post the files that makes it work here please and any graphics that we could use to create this mod are you okay being are python expert

If you're asking if I'd create the graphics, well, I have virtually no graphical creation skill. So someone else would have to do that.

I'll start making the changes now.

I have no skills also i just add them in game
Would These Graphics work for some of it
I've taken the terrain down because its been changed and I don't think anyone needs it

Possibly. As I said, I don't meddle with the graphics. So, you might want to get some artists to help with this. Most mod teams/computer game teams are 90% graphic, 10%programming. In any event, the terrain just needs to be strung up to XML files- can you do this?


I've gotten v0.1 of the mapscript working. It drops solar systems like normal, and then surrounds them with asteroid fields.

It's going to be problematic, "de-Final-Frontiering" the solar system code from the mapscript. It should be doable, but very tricky. But I don't want to do this until I have a version of the mod where I can drop it in and test it.

I'm Working on the mod i haven't heard from Jawas Revenge but I'm just adding units right now I just started so it'll be a while till I'll put it out here for you but Could I have the Map script so I could drop it in the mod if so where and how would I add it in. I'll report any and all bugs I detect straight here

I'm Working on the mod i haven't heard from Jawas Revenge but I'm just adding units right now I just started so it'll be a while till I'll put it out here for you but Could I have the Map script so I could drop it in the mod if so where and how would I add it in. I'll report any and all bugs I detect straight here

No, unfortunately, you couldn't have the mapscript because it's not done yet, because I wrote the mini code that I did inside the Final Frontier mapscript. So until I get rid of the solar system code there it won't work in regular Civ 4. Since I didn't want to mess with this, all the mapscript does is drop asteroids around a solar system to prove I can do it.


I'm thinking we might want 6 planet types (assuming you're dead set on the nine plot idea. Which still might not work.)

-Volcanic: Volcanic terrain (FFH hell terrain: burning sands minus fire)
-Arid: Desert
-Polar: Snow (core), Tundra (edge)
-Oceanic: Water-covered
-Earth-like: Grass (core), Plains (edge)
-Rocky: Hills

Both planet feature types can have six "subtypes" (in other words, a volcanic edge art, an arid edge art, etc.), and I can randomly give each planet a different planet type. However, before any of this is implemented, someone needs to set up the features + their variations via XML art and feature defines. Can you do this? Most of the art already exists. Actually, all of it exists, the challenge would be converting it from terrain to feature art (all of what I described is terrain).

Are there any other ideas for planet types?


I had another idea that will make things a lot easier. If you make spaceships able to travel over planetary features, but not capture cities (like gunships), it doesn't matter whether a city is built on the edge or the center. Then make ground units unable to move onto tiles without Planet Core or Planet Edge plots. Further, then each civ can start on the Planet Core tile of their planet, because it is easier to code this way.

Those are great ideas TC01 I'm still workink on units and buildings and anything else in the XML I can do I'm using the planetbuster to help me create the Death Star could you alter the code to make an asteroid belt instead of ocean for me Heres the code in python for you All I've done is change the unit Type planet buster to Death Star.
Tell me if there is any specific place I have to put it so i don't crash the mod and it works.
I don't think you need that python code anymore since you now have an updated version of it

Those are great ideas TC01 I'm still workink on units and buildings and anything else in the XML I can do I'm using the planetbuster to help me create the Death Star could you alter the code to make an asteroid belt instead of ocean for me Heres the code in python for you All I've done is change the unit Type planet buster to Death Star.
Tell me if there is any specific place I have to put it so i don't crash the mod and it works.

In general, I think when starting this mod, you should copy over ONLY Final Frontier's XML (and art/sound/whatever) folders into "Star Wars/Assets". That way, you don't have to mess with the Solar System python and new python can be written directly into the original Civ python files (when we need, say, the Event Manager, we copy it into a new directory, Star Wars/Assets/Python.)

That being said, the code would go in onNukeExplosion, a function in the Event Manager I'm most familiar with (after spending several weeks making various nukes for a Star Trek modmod).

def onNukeExplosion(self, argsList):
'Nuke Explosion'
pPlot, pNukeUnit = argsList
CvUtil.pyPrint('Nuke detonated at %d, %d'
%(pPlot.getX(), pPlot.getY()))
#Original code above. Death star code below.
if pNukeUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_DEATH_STAR'):
iX = pPlot.getX()
iY = pPlot.getY()
for iiX in range(iX - 1, iX + 2, 1):
for iiY in range(iY - 1, iY + 2, 1):
pTarget = CyMap().plot(iiX, iiY)
if pPlot.getFeatureType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_PLANET_CORE'):
pTarget.setFeatureType(gc.getInfoTypeForString('FE ATURE_FOREST'),0)
if (pTarget.getFeatureType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_PLANET_EDGE') or pTarget.getFeatureType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_PLANET_CORE')):
pTarget.setFeatureType(gc.getInfoTypeForString('FE ATURE_FOREST'),0)
if pPlot.isCity()
pCity = pPlot.getPlotCity()
pCity.kill()

All that's necessary. I'm not certain if it won't actually turn the asteroids around an edge plot (if you target an edge plot). But it should be correct.

If you wanted to have special things happen if a certain building melted down, I could do that as well. Or if you wanted multiple types of special nukes.

Will This work if I put it in now or do i need to wait for the map script. that is the one to make the death star nuke work right?
Do You know any really good tutorials on learning python for civ 4 I would like to help there . I know a little but not enough to work on civ 4
What terrain are we using for planet edge planet core and so on so I can add the correct XML to it

Will This work if I put it in now or do i need to wait for the map script. that is the one to make the death star nuke work right?
Do You know any really good tutorials on learning python for civ 4 I would like to help there . I know a little but not enough to work on civ 4
What terrain are we using for planet edge planet core and so on so I can add the correct XML to it

(Sorry for the numerical system, but you had a lot of questions/ideas and I need to organize my thoughts in response).

1. Can you not do anything with the Python yet, please? I'll add in all the python code into a copy of the default BTS Python files that I need. So don't worry about adding in any code- if you need me to do something in Python, post it in the Python Modding thread I created.

2. Unfortunately, I know no good tutorials because I didn't use any to learn. I learned by playing Fall from Heaven 2, looking at the spell code for a certain spell, and figuring out how the spell did what it did. Mainly, I combined my in-game knowledge of features to the code I was looking at to figure out what code did. If I ever needed something done, I would say "where is this done elsewhere?", find a place where similar code was used, and make small changes to it.

3. For planet edge/planet core, the real problem is going to be that currently they are features. However, all the art that best suits them is currently terrain. So, we would need to convert the TERRAIN_GRASS (Grassland) art to FEATURE_PLANET_CORE variety one (like how the forest works?), and the TERRAIN_PLAINS (Plains) art to FEATURE_PLANET_EDGE variety one. The art below is what I'm thinking for five types of planets.

Planet Core Planet Edge Description
Grass Plains A grassy, Naboo-esc planet.
Snow Tundra A cold, snowy planet.
Plains Coast A planet with little land. (maybe all water?)
Desert Desert An arid, desert planet.
Burning Sands* Burning Sands A volcanic, fiery planet.

Can you do this? Should I open a thread in the main C&C forum asking for help with this? The problem with doing it the other way (terrains, not features) is that it would require much more work on my end, and I'm not sure I could do it.

*Burning Sands is from Fall from Heaven 2.

I Should be able to do it I'll start on it shortly

I can't add the death star yet because the death star currently has no animation if you find one post it in the graphics thread

Could you post that burning plains terrain in the graphics thread for my use I really need it to do what you want

If you're the mod leader, can you PM a mod and get the old threads unstickied and the new one ([BTS]What we're doing now) stickied? That way visitors to the forums know what's up to date and what isn't.

I'm just acting leader I don't have that power how would we change the leader because the old leader is gone and not coming back.

I'm just acting leader I don't have that power how would we change the leader because the old leader is gone and not coming back.

No... I mean PM the moderators to do it. No one except a moderator or admin has the capability to sticky threads. And if we are starting a new mod, we really don't need the old threads still stickied (as if they are accurate now) as to what we are doing.

I just PM woodelf you got anything new?

I can't transfer the terrain to features. could you write it with them as terrains?

I can't transfer the terrain to features. could you write it with them as terrains?

Maybe.

Actually, it's probably easier than I thought. However, I'll have to cheat- the FF mapscript sets everything to space terrain then does features. When it sets the solar systems, I'm going to instead set it to a terrain.

But, you should make sure to do this:

1. Do NOT make Space or Planetary Terrain water/land or land/water. Make them two terrain types that are the same.

2. For every land unit, use the XML define "<TerrainImpassables>" to prevent them from entering Space.

But the asteroids are features

Could you elaborate on what i need to do

But the asteroids are features

Could you elaborate on what i need to do

So?


What I mean is, that for every land unit (ground unit) should have some sort of code looking like this:

<TerrainImpassables>
<TerrainImpassable>
<TerrainType>TERRAIN_TUNDRA</TerrainType>
<bTerrainImpassable>1</bTerrainImpassable>
</TerrainImpassable>
</TerrainImpassables>

TERRAIN_TUNDRA is space terrain.

So, ground units should not be able to walk on space terrain. But space terrain shouldn't be water, it should just be another type of land terrain. Just one that land units can't go over.

I currently have it set up as water

Why does it need to be land

I don't understand

anyone who wants to and can join post it in the what we're doing now thread

I currently have it set up as water

Why does it need to be land

I don't understand

In Final Frontier, space terrain is land (tundra, actually). This is so that space units can take cities.

Now, this isn't Final Frontier. However, there are two reasons for why it should be like that:

1. I'm using the same mapscript code. So, your first city will need to be dropped onto the center of the planet. But if space is water, you won't be able to build ships here, and thus you won't be able to go anywhere, because cities can't be built next to other cities.

2. Ships can fly over planets, right? Plenty of Star Wars battles have ships landing troops/bombarding targets... You should be able to bring ships onto planets and bombard the cities. You should be able to fight units over planets in ships. The only thing ships shouldn't be able to do would be to capture cities.

Ships should be like Civ 4 Gunships.
Ground units should be like ordinary units, except for the fact that they can't travel on space terrain.

Do you understand my idea?

Yes Thanks for enlightening me I'll add that soon

Where would I put your amazing mapscript?

Where would I put your amazing mapscript?

Beyond the Sword/Mods/Star Wars/PrivateMaps- you may need to create this directory.

Private Maps are only accessible from the mod/civ-version they are in. But a public map can be accessed anywhere. Private Maps are better for mapscripts, whereas Public Maps are better for scenarios.

Which terrains should you be able to found cities on?
I don't know how to make Terrains have multiple versions I think thats only Features

Which terrains should you be able to found cities on?
I don't know how to make Terrains have multiple versions I think thats only Features

I've fixed this, so you don't need to worry about multiple versions.

I'm assuming these are the terrains we use:

TERRAIN_GRASS
TERRAIN_PLAINS
TERRAIN_SNOW
TERRAIN_TUNDRA
TERRAIN_DESERT
TERRAIN_BURNING_SANDS
TERRAIN_SPACE (TERRAIN_TUNDRA in Final Frontier)

GRASS and PLAINS are the Class M (this is the term I use, it's from Star Trek, for an Earth-like world. I don't know a generic-sci-fi term).
SNOW and TUNDRA are the arctic world.
DESERT is the desert world.
BURNING_SANDS is the volcanic world.

The first city will only drop on a Grass terrain... I just realized this could be bad if you play a Duel map. I'll have to fix this.

But you should be able to build a city on anything except for space terrain.'

Should I set it so only Planet cores will be able to have cities?

Should I set it so only Planet cores will be able to have cities?

No... there is no "planet core" and "planet edge" feature any more (we don't need them anymore), and anyway, I have nothing wrong with allowing cities on the edge of the planet, I just don't think you should force someone to build a city there.

Okay I won't do that post if you need something for me to do

Well, I don't need you to do anything right now.

But if you need me to write any more python, let me know in the Python modding thread.

2. Ships can fly over planets, right? Plenty of Star Wars battles have ships landing troops/bombarding targets... You should be able to bring ships onto planets and bombard the cities. You should be able to fight units over planets in ships. The only thing ships shouldn't be able to do would be to capture cities.


But how would you simulate a planet having a shield around it (like hoth) and there having to be a ground assault.

while we are at the beginning of this we might as well include some mods (it is easier now then later) like...
Better Beyond the Sword AI
and Bug

I'm going to be gone for a week so see you guys

I'm back from vacation

I'm back from vacation

Glad to see you again. :)

I've made progress in adding the force powers so far, but they're not finished yet.

What kind of force powers do you want? So far, I've been able to implement/am implementing:

-Force Lightning
-Force Choke
-Force Push
-Mind Trick

(those are the only ones I could easily think of)

Here is a list of force powers:
Core force powers
Burst of Speed
Force Cloak
Force Concealment (Also known as Force Stealth)
Force Sense
Farseeing
Force Empathy
Force Seeing
Telekinesis
Force Jump/Leap
Force Pull/Push
Telepathy

Universal:
Art of the Small
Battle Meditation
Breath Control
Comprehend Speech
Force Bellow
Force Body
Force Comprehension
Force Confusion
Force Deflection (without a lightsaber)
Force Flash
Force Illusion
Force Meld
Revitalize
Force Suppression
Force Breach advanced version of Force Suppression
Force Throw
Force Vision
Force Whirlwind variation of Force Push
Force Wave advanced version of Force Push
Force Repulse another advanced version of Force Push
Force Whisper
Precognition
Psychometry
Sever Force
Spirit Transference
Tapas

Light side:
Alter Environment
Animal Friendship
Battlemind
Battle Precognition
Combustion
Droid Disable
Electric Judgment
Force Blinding
Force Enlightenment
Force Healing
Force Light
Force Orb
Force Projection
Force Protection A power only achieved by high-rank Jedi Masters, Force protection made the bearer invulnerable to a wide range of attacks; the ultimate power in terms of defense.
Force Defend Reduced damage taken by Force powers.
Force Absorb A trained Jedi may have converted all kinds of Force attacks used against them to additional Force charge. As the energy used to perform Force-related powers was limited, a Jedi could use the enemy's attacks to their own benefit, instead of receiving damage from them.
Protection Bubble With this Force power, the user could create a defensive sphere around the body, which would protect him from a wide range of attacks, deflect laser blasts, and inflict a certain amount of damage upon contact with the enemy.
Force Stun
Force Stasis advanced version of Force Stun
Force Stasis Field the most advanced version of Force Stun
Force Valor
Hibernation Trance
Mind Trick (Also known as Affect Mind)
Force Persuasion Less powerful than the Mind Trick
Malacia
Morichro
Plant Surge
Ray

Dark side:
Deadly Sight
Drain Knowledge
Electromagnetic Torpedo
Force Destruction
Force Drain
Force Fear
Force Healing
Force Horror advanced version of Force Fear
Force Insanity the most advanced version of Force Horror
Force Flight
Force Lightning (Living hands required)
Chain Lightning variation of Force Lightning
Force Shock variation of Force Lightning
Force Storm (lightning) advanced version of Force Lightning
Force Scream
Force Slow
Force Affliction variation of Force Slow
Force Plague advanced version of Force Slow
Force Storm (wormhole)
Force Wound
Force Choke variation of Force Grip
Force Grip advanced version of Force Wound
Force Crush the most advanced version of Force Wound
Kinetite
Mechu-deru
Midichlorian Manipulation
Mind Control
Sith Alchemy
Spear of Midnight Black
Thought Bomb
Torture by Chagrin

Lightsaber combat powers:
Alter Damage
Dun Möch
Saber Barrier
Saber Throw
Telekinetic lightsaber combat

I suppose these and Jedi Moves could be used as promotions.

I got this from the force powers thread you don't need to do all of these
If you could would you do the hilighted ones

First I don't know what half of those thing mean.

Secondly, I have no idea if the AI will actually understand how to use a python action button.

Thirdly, all of the very old threads, including the one you got this from, were assuming that the game would work like "normal" except water would be land. At least, that's what the old version of the SW mod (.66?) from vanilla I have tells me. So many of their ideas assume that the map will have a lot of land and a little space. Whereas here we have a lot of space and a little land. So powers like "Animal Friendship" will mean and do nothing, because I don't think there's room for any animals.

Fourthly, I'm wondering if we should make two mods, one all Final Frontier, one all normal Civ. Force powers and things for the "land" one could go in the land mod... (you could have an "Arctic" mapscript simulating an arctic planet like Hoth, a "Desert" mapscript simulating a desert planet like Tatooine, a "Volcanic" mapscript simulating a vulcanic planet like Mustafar, sort of like Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds (the Star Wars game built on the Age of Empires II engine))

In any event, here's my breakdown of the ones you selected as doable/not doable:

Burst of Speed: I don't really think it's worth it... 3x3 planets, and there's a movement reduction to pressing the button (I intend to implement one, anyway). So the speed you get has to be at least double the speed you loose from pressing the button... and we have 3x3 planets.

Force Concealment: Makes the unit invisible. Fine, but again, on a 3x3 plot, what does this mean? Is there a point to it?

Force Push: I was able to add this in, in that it pushes a unit "back" 1 tile. But only if it is targeted at a unit right next to the caster, and in the direction of where the caster's standing (so if you're facing a unit in the corner of a planet, pushing it back won't do anything, because it would be about to walk into space). I can add a pull to work the same way.

Battle Meditiation: What's this do?

Force Throw: Again, what's this do?

Sever Force: What's this do? Prevent a unit from using force powers? How many units do you intend to be able to use force powers to make this worth it?

Animal Friendship: As I said above, there are't any animals on a 3x3 planet- I guess you could maybe have one every so often. In any event, land battles won't really be turned by one "converted" animal.

Force Healing: Would this heal the unit who used it or another (targeted) unit? Either way, I guess it would be worth adding. I'll start adding this one.

Mind Trick: Was able to add this in the form of a promotion (Mind Tricked) that presumably will significantly weaken the unit. The only thing is that the promotion is removed on that unit owner's next turn, so this will only be valuable when attacking.

Force Drain: Again, what's this do?

Force Healing: Already mentioned.

Force Lightning: Added in the form of a targeted ability that gives the unit who used some random healing (unless they are at full health), and the unit who did it some random damage.

Force Scream: What would this do?

Force Choke: Added in the form of a targeted ability that dealt damage to a nearby unit. (Does the same amount of damage as Force Lightning, so would have to be a prereq for Force Lightning).

Mind Control: Could add in the form of taking over target unit. But there would be some problems, such as using it on a city, gaining one unit, forcing the other units out, and taking the city.

Thought Bomb: What would this do?

Saber Barrier: What would this do?

Burst of Speed: I don't really think it's worth it... 3x3 planets, and there's a movement reduction to pressing the button (I intend to implement one, anyway). So the speed you get has to be at least double the speed you loose from pressing the button... and we have 3x3 planets.
We'll take this one off

Force Concealment: Makes the unit invisible. Fine, but again, on a 3x3 plot, what does this mean? Is there a point to it?
You can use it if your attacking another planet so they don't see your unit coming

Force Push: I was able to add this in, in that it pushes a unit "back" 1 tile. But only if it is targeted at a unit right next to the caster, and in the direction of where the caster's standing (so if you're facing a unit in the corner of a planet, pushing it back won't do anything, because it would be about to walk into space). I can add a pull to work the same way.
Thanks

Maelstorm
Pushing all units in adjectant tiles one tile away

Battle Meditiation: What's this do?
Makes your other units more likely to win against he odds temporarily

Force Throw: Again, what's this do?
We won't use this

Sever Force: What's this do? Prevent a unit from using force powers? How many units do you intend to be able to use force powers to make this worth it?
It pernamently takes away force powers

Animal Friendship: As I said above, there are't any animals on a 3x3 planet- I guess you could maybe have one every so often. In any event, land battles won't really be turned by one "converted" animal.
We won't use this one

Force Healing: Would this heal the unit who used it or another (targeted) unit? Either way, I guess it would be worth adding. I'll start adding this one.
Heal a targeted unit

Mind Trick: Was able to add this in the form of a promotion (Mind Tricked) that presumably will significantly weaken the unit. The only thing is that the promotion is removed on that unit owner's next turn, so this will only be valuable when attacking.

Force Drain: Again, what's this do?
We won't use this one

Force Heal: Already mentioned.
Heal the unit

Force Lightning: Added in the form of a targeted ability that gives the unit who used some random healing (unless they are at full health), and the unit who did it some random damage.
Thanks

Force Scream: What would this do?
hurt all units in the tiles connecting to the one on the one its on

Force Choke: Added in the form of a targeted ability that dealt damage to a nearby unit. (Does the same amount of damage as Force Lightning, so would have to be a prereq for Force Lightning).
That would work

Mind Control: Could add in the form of taking over target unit. But there would be some problems, such as using it on a city, gaining one unit, forcing the other units out, and taking the city.
The unit would come out and you could use it it only works once and only affects one unit

Thought Bomb: What would this do?
kill it and all units near it

Saber Barrier: What would this do?
We won't use this

Would these work

I think you should create a line of promotions, let's say:

Light Side I Dark Side I
Light Side II Dark Side II
Light Side III Dark Side III
....... ...........

I'm not sure how exactly you want this to go, but "UNIT_SITH" (name randomly chosen) should start with, say, Dark Side I, and "UNIT_JEDI" should start with Light Side I. Each promotion would equal 1 power. Some powers should be available to both Light and Dark sides, though (I'll let you pick which and what goes where). Just make sure you tell me, so that when I write the python I know which promotions to let display which button.

Battle Meditiation, Force Concealment (and Mind Trick) work best as promotions applied by their buttons. I can remove them the same way I have it set up with Mind Trick. Except, for Battle Meditation, I think it should either affect only the unit who casted it or a targeted unit on a tile.

For the mind control one, I think you should make it the "end" of the force powers promotion tree. Then create a second promotion (for instance, if you have five Dark Side promotions, then create PROMOTION_DARK_SIDE_5 and PROMOTION_DARK_SIDE_5_2). The second one is exactly the same, but applied via python after the unit with the first one casts the mind control ability. But, it will now be unable to cast the mind control ability. For the rest of the game. And if it is at the end of the tree, there will be no conflict that PROMOTION_DARK_SIDE_6's prereq, PROMOTION_DARK_SIDE_5, isn't on a unit (but PROMOTION_DARK_SIDE_5_2 is).

The Sever Force can work similarly- the unit looses all force power promotions and gaines "Force Severed" Promotion or something like that.

That Should work

Okay.

There are twelve force powers. One of them is available to both sides, Force Healing. Are any other powers going to be like this? It would be nice if I had an even number, so either 1 more, or 3 more, or 5 more have to be available to both sides.

I need a chart of sorts, comparing the promotion (Light Side/Dark Side _) to the power (Force ______ ). That way, I know which promotion should allow a unit to see a certain button.

Light Dark Universal
Force Healing|Force Choke | Force Heal
Force Sever |Force Lightning| Force Scream
Mind Trick |Mind Control | Battle Meditation
Maelstorm |Thought Bomb| Force Concealment
| Force Push

Are These Good

Maelstrom seems like it's a little useless (I missed it the first time).

It would have three different effects:

1. If you're standing in a corner of a planet, blow all units in neighboring plots back. Good effect.
2. If you're standing in the center of the edge of a planet, blow the units in the planet's center back but do nothing else. Okay.
3. If you're standing in the center of a planet, do nothing. Bad.

So really, 1/3 times it works good, but the other times it's not so good. I think that we don't really need it, and anyway, it lets me have an even number of force powers, which is good. I think it would be slightly better as:

Light Dark Universal
Force Healing|Force Choke | Force Heal
Force Sever |Force Lightning| Force Scream
Mind Trick |Mind Control | Force Push
Battle Meditation |Thought Bomb| Force Concealment

Because Battle Meditation seems more of a "good" ability, and Force Push more of a "neutral" ability.

Also, a quick question- is Force Healing the "heal other unit" and Force Heal the "heal yourself"?


We'll need 8 promotions, Light Side 1 through 4 and Dark Side 1 through 4. We'll also need button graphics (which should go under CIV4ArtDefines_Interface.xml), 12 of them, one for each force ability. I'll do the text for each button explaining what it does, and then give you the text file to drop into XML\Text folder.

Healing other unit Heal is the unit
Meditation is one that both use but the sith were the first to use it

Healing other unit Heal is the unit
Meditation is one that both use but the sith were the first to use it

The real problem is simply that I want an even number of Light Side promotions and Dark Side promotions. And neutral abilities. So 12 abilities works.

But if we remove Maelstrom, we have 12 abilities with a 3, 4, 5. When I said "even", I didn't mean 2,4,6, etc. I meant "the same". This would be fine if we had 2 more light side abilities and 1 more dark side ability... if there are some on that list you think could be worked into the game (that you didn't already suggest), tell me what they do and I'll see if they would be doable/make sense.

If there aren't, I suggest either cutting Mind Control (which I may not be able to do), or going with gameplay over flavor (which is how you should do game design) and moving a Universal ability to Light Side only.

We'll put force healing and heal in light
meditation can be moved to neutral

We'll put force healing and heal in light
meditation can be moved to neutral

Okay. That works.

Thanks
When do you think You'll have those ready to insert into the game?

Thanks
When do you think You'll have those ready to insert into the game?

I could probably get them done by tomorrow night. By Thursday at the latest.

That'll be great

Force Powers are an interesting idea, but I have one worry, Jedi/Sith are powerful but not that powerful having them have specific force powers would make them a bit too powerful for it to be realistic. Jedi have functioned as generals, and have led battles, but they cannot win one single handed (perhaps they could be grouped with some other units). Also how many persons does a "unit" represent, a jedi cannot force push a legion of troops.


Also Please no weird EU force powers.

Force Powers are an interesting idea, but I have one worry, Jedi/Sith are powerful but not that powerful having them have specific force powers would make them a bit too powerful for it to be realistic. Jedi have functioned as generals, and have led battles, but they cannot win one single handed (perhaps they could be grouped with some other units). Also how many persons does a "unit" represent, a jedi cannot force push a legion of troops.


Also Please no weird EU force powers.

Logically, a Jedi or Sith represents a small group of Jedi or Sith. Or, they represent one Jedi or Sith leading a small army. Or both. Like heroes from FFH- I assume they represent one hero leading a small army.

I'll say this again: gameplay trumps realism (or flavor). It's bad game design to remove a mechanic because story reason's don't quite stretch to fit it. Yes, it's a little hard to imagine, say, a Jedi unit force-pushing an Infantry backwards. But is it a good gameplay ability? Well, yes, with enough Jedi you could empty a city of units, assuming the city was in the center of the map. Or, say, Force Choke. Can a single Jedi or Sith force choke an entire army? Maybe not. But the damage is not "kill units", it's "damage units", so it's a little more believable. Anyway, it's a good ability to have, to damage an enemy.

Here is the list of force powers:

1. Force Healing: Heals a targeted unit
2. Force Heal: Heals the caster. (a new name might be needed, like "Force Regenerate").
3. Sever Force: Removes all force promotions from a unit (preventing the casting of abilities).
4. Mind Trick: Gives a promotion called "Mind Tricked" to a unit, making it weak. Promotion removed on start of next turn.
5. Force Choke: Does random damage to a specific unit.
6. Force Lightning: Does same damage as Force Choke, then heals the caster (if the caster is injured).
7. Mind Control: Only usable once, converts a unit to your team.
8. Thought Bomb: Kills all units (including the caster) in a 1-plot radius (except for space units).
9. Force Scream: Does damage to all units in a 1-plot radius around the caster (except for space units).
10. Force Push: Pushes the unit to the plot in a line with it and the caster. If the unit can't move into the plot (if it's a space tile, for instance), the ability does nothing.
11. Force Concealment: Gives the unit an invisible promotion. Promotion removed at start of next turn.
12. Battle Meditation: Gives all units in the caster's plot the Battle Meditation promotion. Promotion removed at start of next turn.

I do think Jedi should act like mages from FFH. If they focus on gaining force ability promotions, they loose combat strength. If they focus on gaining combat promotions, they become stronger in combat but can't "cast" abilities. I've already implemented a flat movement cost (each ability costs 1 movement point) to make them less overpowered.

Force Regenerate is a great name
I agree gameplay trumps realism any day

The civilizations are : Led By
The Empire : Palpatine
The Imperial Remnant : Gilad Pellaeon
Alliance to Restore the republic (Rebellion) : Mon Mothma
New Republic : Borsk Fey'la
Old Republic : Valorum
Yuzhaan Vong : Shimarra
The Chiss : Grand Admiral Thrawn
Brotherhood of Darkness (Sith) : Lord Kaan

Unique units/buildings for any of them?

I think "Rebel Alliance" is a better name than "Alliance to Restore the Republic"- even though the second is more technically accurate, it's too long for Civ, I think.

What are we doing civics wise? I ask because each leader has defined their preferences and starting civics.

Rebel alliance will work great I'm working on Unique units now I have almost no buildings but I do have a unique building for the old republic the Nabbo Palace
And For the Rebel alliance I have the hoth shield generator
I'm going to get more leaders for the civs I just don't have them yet

How are the civilizations to be used???

Many of the Civs go in and out of existence (the sith) or come from other civs (CIS, the rebelion, the imperial remnent.)


The Imperial Remnant : Gilad Pellaeon

Add Thrawn as an alternate leader for the Imperial Remnant

Also large intergalactic empires when split tend for sectors to go into warlordism and all fight each other (such as the empire did post endor); if something of that magnitude happens to an empire it should split into a number of them (each warlord-empire seemed to have one super star destroyer (executor class) so maybe they could split based on that.

Thrawn we're putting for chiss even though he was an imperial cause he was the most famous chiss

Thrawn never ruled the chiss his was a in there navy but he was a much more important part of the empire (grand admiral, warlord)

The chiss were ruled by the nine ruling familys (at least at the time of the book Outbound Flight)

The leader of the chiss could be the Nuruodo family (the second ruling family), they were responsible for military and military and foreign policy.

Could you give me a leader for the chiss then because I don't have one then
if you know how to get them to split like that we might be able to do it just i don't know how to.

I need someone to use as a leaderhead that someone could look up and see that their real so that we have more historical accuracy
You're right it was the nine ruling familys but later it was reduced

You could just use a generic chiss, they all look pretty similar or:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/1/15/ChissNEGAS.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/3/34/Chiss_Ascendancy.svg

I might use a random chiss like i did with the yuuzhan vong I just got a random picture because are none of him
but i need at least a name to use thats why i put thrawn there if you get me a name I'll switch it otherwise it doesn't work the best

Chaf'orm'bintrano core name Formbi

Mitt'swe'kleoni core name Tswek

Thats all the names we know

These are for chiss ascendancy aren't they
if they are
I'll see if I can add them in
Thanks for helping

Yes they are, glad to help

What force promotion is what force power

What force promotion is what force power

It doesn't really matter for writing the promotions (because this is all handled via python, not XML, except for the promotions themselves), but it's:

1. Force Healing: Light 1
2. Force Regenerate: Light 2
3. Sever Force: Light 4
4. Mind Trick: Light 3
5. Force Choke: Dark 1
6. Force Lightning: Dark 2
7. Mind Control: Dark 3
8. Thought Bomb: Dark 4
9. Force Scream: Light/Dark 1
10. Force Push: Light/Dark 2*
11. Force Concealment: Light/Dark 4*
12. Battle Meditation: Light/Dark 3

*I think. It might be the other way around.

Thanks
How do I make 9-12 the Universal ones

Thanks
How do I make 9-12 the Universal ones

You don't... all you have to do is add the ArtDefines_Interface buttons that I mentioned in the graphics thread.

Controlling which unit can see which button (prereq promotions) has been done via python.

I've added those now thanks

I've put thrawn leading the Imperial Remnant

The civilizations are : Led By
The Empire : Palpatine
The Imperial Remnant : Gilad Pellaeon
Alliance to Restore the republic (Rebellion) : Mon Mothma
New Republic : Borsk Fey'la
Old Republic : Valorum
Yuzhaan Vong : Shimarra
The Chiss : Grand Admiral Thrawn
Brotherhood of Darkness (Sith) : Lord Kaan


Very odd choices. And a bit incoherent. Not to mention unrepresentative of fluff.
It may be best to pick civilizations linked to one era or at least take those that are more in tune with fluff. Putting Thrawn as leader of the Chiss for instance is an odd choice.

Would it perhaps be possible to have political systems evolve from era to era:

Republic -> Empire -> Imperial Remnant -> New Empire
-> Alliance -> New Republic -> Galactic Alliance

Another approach may be era based via scenarios.

Of course you could go era based.

Main factions would in any case best be the main ones.
I wouldn't put the Chiss in under Thrawn. Thrawn or Pellaeon would be best for the Imperial Remnant.
Putting some factions together in the same map would be a bit odd though.
A scenario-based approach would be best i think.

I don't know how i would do that but I have changed thrawn to leading the imperial remnant

I really don't want to have to say this again, but: Gameplay trumps realism.

To my observation (since the only Star Wars I've read/watched are the Movies, some games, but games all set in the movie era, and some of the online Wikia), some of those factions are quite different and deserve independent civs. The Old Republic and the Empire are two totally different factions. One was committed to preserving peace and had no standing army (for some time, anyway), at least until the Clone Wars. The Empire was committed to building massive armies, weapons of mass destruction, and conquering people. Personally, I'd make the Imperial Remnant, Empire, and New Empire all one faction, with different leaders who affected the game different. Palpatine is a really evil leader and you play him like the Emperor. But Pellaeon is a better leader and more peaceful-ish.

Rebel Alliance is also completely different then New Republic. Rebel Alliance, for the most part, is a an underground movement of freedom fighters, constantly on the run from the Empire, at least until Endor anyway. Whereas the New Republic is a galactic government trying to rebuild the galaxy. Sure, technically one built the other, but the civs have different motivations.

Why would it "be odd to have them on all one map"? Maybe, yes. But Civ 4 runs into this issue all of the time. Then again, you get the occasional argument that America doesn't deserve to be a civ...

Anyway, what you describe is only doable via Rhye's and Fall of Civilization (era specific civs). Which, before you ask, would require a lot of work. A new DLL, for one, and would require specific scenarios (and what we are doing is using a random map). Now, if you wanted to make (or if someone wanted to make) an RFC-Star Wars modmod for this, where that's what you implemented, that would be fine with me. But I'm not going to commit to doing that- maybe after the mod's released, but not now.


I'm sorry if I gave offense, I wasn't trying to. But please understand that gameplay is more important then "realism". Here's Kael's "HOW TO: Design a Mod" guide, explaining the issue:

1.2 The Danger of Flavor:

Why do games based on movies and movies based on books always seem to be bad? There are exceptions, but we are usually disappointed with the results of these conversions. The reason is that the design of the new game or movie is based so strongly on the flavor of its source that its own functional design suffers.

At some point you should look at your mod as just a functional process, a board game without any stylized components, an exercise in mathematics. A game must be enjoyable at this layer to be fun. Some games are so well designed they only exist at this layer and are still amazing to play (chess, othello, tetris, etc). But a game that has incredible flavor but no meaningful functional elements will always be a bad game.

If you fall in love with a concept that seems like a great idea, but doesn’t have any functional value, the temptation will be to come up with a functional need. There isn’t anything wrong with this, some ideas come from flavor, and some come from function. Different people are more apt to think from one end or the other. But, be aware of the danger that designing from flavor presents. If you aren’t able to come up with an elegant functional need you are best off to remove or change the flavor rather than let the functional design suffer for it.

This danger is even more prevelant when you are basing your mod on a known source. It is nice to already have all that flavor developed for you, but it can be as constraining as it is helpful. You will either have to let your design suffer (to what level is up to your own ability to find creative elegant solutions) or be willing to step outside the bounds of the source material and develop new elements, or exclude elements despite their existence in the source when the material doesn’t improve the game play of your mod.

Actually in the Kotor and early Old Republic they did have a standing army. It varies.
Civ 2 SW mod manages to pull it of. But it requires a scenario, that way there is no inconsistency.
Also Pellaeon was a good leader but politically he's a nitwit compared to Palpatine. Though choosing out of a few leaders (which is i believe possible in Civ IV) would be a good thing.
In any case i don't mind you mixing factions for sandbox gaming it'll be the basis of a mod anyway, scenarios always come later.
But you should be careful that it doesn't end up too goofy. If you loose the SW atmosphere and feel, there is little point to making this mod.

The only time the old republic has an army only when it is at war otherwise they only have a few guards during peacetime

Never said otherwise. I was referring to the Sith Wars, the Mandalorian Wars, the Clone Wars etc.

does anybody have a good idea what to use for the Galactic Republics colors

does anybody have a good idea what to use for the Galactic Republics colors

Either red (diplomatic ships bear red), or blue (the old Republic guards wore blue).

I think the Empire, then, should be the opposite color.

Thanks

Usually the Rebels and Republic are associated with red. Empire with blue. In games at least. Official colors, it may be best to look at their 'flags'. Which for the Rebs is still red. For the Republic i forgot to be honest.

civ editor do u want to set up a free website thing so that we can organize this a little bit better? then we can keep posting here for updates,ideas and communication

just an idea

and organizations should be replaced with Races, so that different races are in each town, and with races you would get a automatic race promotion to that unit giving them a unique advanatage due to there specific race or if they were a droid.

Yeah I was thinking races should be great people or corporations I think we can go with corporations

Colors:

Rebels:Red
Republic:Red
Seps:Blue
Empire:Navy
Hutts:Tan
Black Sun:Black:rolleyes:
Ssi-Ruuvi:Green
Chiss:Light Blue
Vong:Lime
Mandalorians:Brown
Sith:Black

Just a thought

Thanks for your thoughts

Heres the civ list I'm using now
Sith Empire: Lord Kaan http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lord_Kaan

Old Republic: Sidrona Diath, Finis Valorum http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sidrona_Diath , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Finis_Valorum

Rakatan Empire: Orsaa http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Orsaa

Seperatists: Count Dooku http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Count_Dooku

Black Sun, Hutts(Barbarians): Prince Xizor, Durga http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Prince_Xizor , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Durga_Besadii_Tai

Empire: Palpatine http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine

Rebel Alliance: Mon Mothma, Bail Organa http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mon_Mothma , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bail_Organa

New Republic: Leia Organa Solo, Borsk Fey'la http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Leia_Organa_Solo , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Borsk_Fey%27la

Imperial Remnant: Grand Admiral Thrawn, Gilad Pellaeon http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Admiral_Thrawn , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gilad_Pellaeon

Yuuzhan Vong: Supreme Overlord Shimarra, Tsavong Lah http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shimrra_Jamaane , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tsavong_Lah

Mandalorians: Boba Fett http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Boba_Fett

Galactic Alliance: Darth Caedus, Cha Niathal, Admiral Daala http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Caedus , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cha_Niathal , http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Admiral_Daala

Does anyone have any questions or suggestions for this?

Add more Rebel Alliance leaders, more Old Republic leaders are my only suggestions.

Just because Mothma was the leader of the Rebel alliance doesn't mean you can't add additional leaders who aren't- FFH for instance has both the supreme leader of a civ and one of the lesser leaders as leaders in some places.

I'm going to use the son of sidronas picture for his leaderhead because i can't find a picture of sidrona diath.

Add more Rebel Alliance leaders, more Old Republic leaders are my only suggestions.

Just because Mothma was the leader of the Rebel alliance doesn't mean you can't add additional leaders who aren't- FFH for instance has both the supreme leader of a civ and one of the lesser leaders as leaders in some places.

Garm Bel Iblis one of the co-founders of the Rebel Alliance, but Mothma was the leader of the Alliance confederation

We're using leaders that aren't the leader because we need more leaders per civilization

Here are a few screenshots

Imperial remnant http://yfrog.com/0wremnantnj

rebellion http://img30.imageshack.us/i/rebbellion.jpg/

Mon Mothma http://img193.imageshack.us/i/monmothma.jpg/

Gilad Pellaeon http://img30.imageshack.us/i/pellaeon.jpg/

I assume you're going to remove the vanilla leaders, civs, etc. as well? They look out of place.


I'm going to be writing some concept pedia entries (like Civ 4 Concepts, Beyond the Sword Concepts, etc.) to detail some of the features I've been creating:

-Force Powers (And Ion Pulse)
-Random Planets
-The Death Star
-Land + Space Units

Anyone have any good suggestions for concept articles? Some default FF ones will be in there covering things like hazardous features, etc. (These will be replacing the vanilla concepts- I'm keeping BTS concepts in).

Yes but I'm going to do that after a while so that I have enough civilizations to test the game on

We have more than 2,000 posts in this mod forum now

I'm going to be gone for a few days.
Be back monday

Hey what are we going to use for the theme? or we just going to have a regular theme?

Hey what are we going to use for the theme? or we just going to have a regular theme?

Theme?

Can you specify what you mean?

Do you mean audio or art?

A slight modification of the Firaxis blue theme might make it look like a hologram:)

Yea... I didn't know where to post this, but I'll post it here.

I think I'd be a valuable fact-checker for the team due to an intense knowledge of the inner workings and technology in Star Wars lore. I can draft 'pedia background information, correct errors in the tech tree, etc. etc. If you have need of a Canon Geek, I'm here.

when i get the tech tree out you could correct errors in it like i already just found one with turbo lasers

And i meant theme like the colors of the main menu interface and stuff

I'm back
I haven't done any of the theme stuff so if you want to do it you can

I have added the CAR Mod in. Does anyone think I should take it out?
It increases game speed by 15%.

I have added the CAR Mod in. Does anyone think I should take it out?
It increases game speed by 15%.

What does CAR stand for?

BTW,1,000 post!

:clap: :bowdown: :worship: :rockon: :band: [party]

Its a mod I found on the site a while ago its Civ AccelaratoR heres the link to it
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=332196

I have added the CAR Mod in. Does anyone think I should take it out?
It increases game speed by 15%.

The issue is that you have to recompile the DLL because you will need to merge in the AI Using Land Transports stuff, which also has it's own DLL.

So unless you can do that, I suggest leaving it out for now.

I'm pretty sure I can do it. If I can't I won't add it in.

Are we going to have revolutions or barbarian civ?

We will have a barbarian civ. Who should I put as the leader?

We will have a barbarian civ. Who should I put as the leader?

Well, unless you're using a mod that has barbarians naturally in it and you can talk to them, I don't really see the point. I'd call the person "Barbarian Leader", like Civ does.

Barbarian Civ: Why?

Last time I checked CAR was not able to save or load saves:(, maybe someday

It can't Ahhh I've added it in here. I'll have to take it out now
By the way where did you here that?

The CAR thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=332196

For one thing, it's not save game compatible.

That doesn't mean you can't save games and load them.

I just tried it: loaded CAR mod. Ran 5 turns. Saved game. Ran 1 more turn. Loaded game that was just saved. Back on previous turn, just as expected.

I expect that what he was saying is that the save game version using CAR is not the same save game version as with the UP, so old games saved with UP would not be openable by UP + CAR. Or something along those lines. This is not really much of a problem. In fact, I would be surprised if adding CAR to the UP would change the UP's save game version since CAR supposedly does not change any game play, so only changes due to the UP would be present in saved games anyway (whatever they may be).

That doesn't mean you can't save games and load them.

I just tried it: loaded CAR mod. Ran 5 turns. Saved game. Ran 1 more turn. Loaded game that was just saved. Back on previous turn, just as expected.

I expect that what he was saying is that the save game version using CAR is not the same save game version as with the UP, so old games saved with UP would not be openable by UP + CAR. Or something along those lines. This is not really much of a problem. In fact, I would be surprised if adding CAR to the UP would change the UP's save game version since CAR supposedly does not change any game play, so only changes due to the UP would be present in saved games anyway (whatever they may be).

Whoops, I guess I misunderstood

I'm going to be gone until monday night bye