This thread is for "pre-screening" things that you think might be a bug, but are unsure of. If there's something that sounds a little "off" - post it here and see if others agree that it's a bug before posting it on the bug thread. That way we can keep the discussion over here rather than over there.

Of course, if Deirdra attacks you with a stack of 27 rubber ducks or you encounter some other obvious bug, you can skip this thread altogether and just post it :D

Casting Spring on an oasis makes the plot a regular "plains" not the super nifty neato plot. intended?

Austin Highlanders can upgrade to Trackers (but lower recons can not upgrade to melee)

Austin Trackers can upgrade to Recurve Archers

Highlanders can also upgrade to Recurve Archers

Very interesting upgrade web. (however I haven't played Austin before maybe this is normal?)

Casting Spring on an oasis makes the plot a regular "plains" not the super nifty neato plot. intended?

If you mean "No plains Oasis", then yes. The special desert features are quite potent to balance out the desert part, so they only exist in desert. It's still pretty effective to spring all around an Oasis, leaving that one tile as desert though. Likewise, the Malakim Bedouin improvements should all become simple cottages if you remove their desert way of life.

Austin Highlanders can upgrade to Trackers (but lower recons can not upgrade to melee)

Austin Trackers can upgrade to Recurve Archers

Highlanders can also upgrade to Recurve Archers

Very interesting upgrade web. (however I haven't played Austin before maybe this is normal?)

Aye - there are some interesting paths through the upgrades. Going to take a careful look at it again myself to make sure that the early recon units can become something useful (having lots of Rogues early on shouldn't be a problem as they can cross-upgrade to become a useful fighter/defender). The other cross upgrades are because the units are adaptable and have experienced much in their travels, often changing how they see the world.

Promoting a unit no longer makes that little sound effect. Am I going deaf, or was it removed?

...or is it... a bug?!

Promoting a unit no longer makes that little sound effect. Am I going deaf, or was it removed?

...or is it... a bug?!

The default for the field was blanked, so unless the promotions each have a sound effect defined, it will be silent.

i was fighting some shealm with my scion ally and the scions just put a single archer next to every shealm city, kinda weird.

Settlers are replaced by themselves as a UU, apparently - at least, that's what the Civilopedia is suggesting. Is it supposed to link to another unit, or am I ignorant of some game mechanic?

Scions (or someone) Settler replacement doesn't have a different name I imagine.

I've noticed some strange offensive AI behavior. They'll have a small army near a city defended by one adept, decide that there's a friendly unit back in one of their cities that they should hook up with, and leave the enemy city alone. I've been waiting a few dozen turns for them to capture that city, and they haven't even attacked.

Saves where we can watch strange AI are always beneficial :) Then we can slip into the code and ferret out their reasoning sometimes.

Righto, if it happens again I'll post it.

Aye - there are some interesting paths through the upgrades. Going to take a careful look at it again myself to make sure that the early recon units can become something useful (having lots of Rogues early on shouldn't be a problem as they can cross-upgrade to become a useful fighter/defender). The other cross upgrades are because the units are adaptable and have experienced much in their travels, often changing how they see the world.

I like this idea but can you look at a specific one for me please?

Austin - Tracker can not upgrade to a Beastmaster. I have 4000+ gold (courtesy of the world builder to make sure my 487 I already had wasn't the issue) I am in a city that can build them, and I am not at max as I JUST got them I haven't built any yet.

I ASSUME this is a bug/over sight and not intended.

Pic of the town showing I have 3 more, after I finish the 1st one that is started

http://i26.tinypic.com/213rjv4.jpg

Pic of the trackers upgrade options

http://i30.tinypic.com/noy33r.jpg

Issue one: Archosian Baby Spiders that have declared their nationality and then upgrade to Giant Spiders regain Hidden Nationality.

Issue two: The scorecard at the bottom right that displays the civilization leader's name, alignment, peace status(es) and score is not displaying the flavoured civilization names like it used to. (i.e. The Elohim lead by Einion Logos, running God King and Pacifism, is simply named Einion Logos in the scorecard, instead of Einion Logos's Realm of Peace.)

They both seem like bugs, especially issue two (because it still announces the civilization's name changes), but I can't be sure. :l

Edit: *cough* And my question to you is: Are these bugs or intended?

I like this idea but can you look at a specific one for me please?

Austin - Tracker can not upgrade to a Beastmaster. I have 4000+ gold (courtesy of the world builder to make sure my 487 I already had wasn't the issue) I am in a city that can build them, and I am not at max as I JUST got them I haven't built any yet.

I ASSUME this is a bug/over sight and not intended.


It actually was the intention - Austrin Recon units aren't as closely tied to the "nature" side of things so Beastmasters became a standalone unit for them whilst the recon tied into the tree of other lines.

Not necessarily a required change in hindsight, but was a deliberate one...

I took a hidden nationality mega-spider and cleared out the Austrins of every military unit they had. A few turns later, they declared war on me, and sent one archer my way. Granted, I set it to aggressive AI, but that doesn't seem like the proper way to conduct a war. They weren't even particularly upset with me.

I can provide a savegame if you want, but it's one of those huge maps.

If it's coded so that wars are declared at random, as I suspect it is, given that reloading with a new seed results in a completely different diplomatic situation, I would suggest that this bit of code be revisited so that random wars are only declared if the AI nation has a military. Half a dozen different nations have declared war on me, and only one of them has been able to muster up an army.

It actually was the intention - Austrin Recon units aren't as closely tied to the "nature" side of things so Beastmasters became a standalone unit for them whilst the recon tied into the tree of other lines.

Not necessarily a required change in hindsight, but was a deliberate one...

Well if my trackers were stuck as trackers I would try and argue... however since they can move over and become useful Recurve Archers, I can live with that.

Recurve archers are excellent anyways
They have a few extra first strikes, and Woodsman II for free.
Also, build a master outfitter (not fletcher) and buy the Windstones upgrade for all your archers. It allows them to shoot over 2 tiles (Austrin only)

Hi all,
Evidently not a "serious" bug, but to draw your attention towards it nonetheless.

Regarding the AI and their unusual war declarations...

I, as Sabathiel of Bannor, am on a small pangea with Tasunke, Einion Logos, Garrim Gyr and Hannah the Irin.
I managed to found Order and spread it aggressively - so everyone (with the sole exception of Hannah: who founded the OO's) has it as their state religion.
It's turn 500ish and I have the second largest (peacetime) military after Garrim Gyr, and I need one more mana node (chaos) to build Tower of Necromany...I have the other three Towers...going for a nice ToM victory. I've got the only mithril on the map, and the game in the bag.
SO because everyone hates Hannah anyway (global Order vs. her OO), even though she's on the other side of the pangea, I march an army over to go take a coastal city with a mana node.
I go into crusade mode for fun, it's not really necessary.
Anyway I get my node, drop everything to 0%, a few turns later I buy my tower, start construction of Tower of Mastery......

And the whole world declares on me.

While I'm in crusade mode.

With the second largest standing army, and strong friendships with everyone (except Hannah; who by this point doesn't really count)... I pop rally and instantly go to #1 on the power graph, then spend the next 20 turns massacring my brothers and sisters of the faith. It's not the winning (which I did anyway) so much as the feeling that the way the AI declared war - on a staunch ally and with no hope of victory - was a bit screwed up. Wouldn't pushing for a permanent alliance have been more fitting?

Killed Orthus, no Axe drop. WAI?

Not a bug I'm sure, but I just had the top scored civ in my current game give me a technological gift. Probably a first ever, in my FFH games. Did You all somehow perform an odd form of lobotomy on/or reworked the AI this update? I haven't encountered any of the difficulties with the AI screwing it's self over in a war, but it sure has been playing a hell of a lot smarter and broader since I installed .51

And the whole world declares on me.

While I'm in crusade mode.


Was this like a massive string of messages

"a has declared war on you"
"b has declared war on you"
"c has declared war on you"
"d has declared war on you"
"e has declared war on you"
"f has declared war on you"
"g has declared war on you"
"h has declared war on you"
"i has declared war on you"

With a deafening multi-war-horn.


OR

Did each of them individually contact you and declare war, one by one.

If it's the former, that's not an AI issue, but a python bug somewhere. I believe it's supposed to happen when you start on the final tower, not on one of the sub towers. It also happens when the Illians complete The Draw, or when someone starts building the final Altar of the Luonnotar. I'm pretty sure it's a python effect just making the whole world declare on you.


But if there were diplomacy screens involved, then we may have an AI issue. Perhaps they thought they could take you as a united force.

This..



"a has declared war on you"
"b has declared war on you"
"c has declared war on you"
"d has declared war on you"
"e has declared war on you"
"f has declared war on you"
"g has declared war on you"
"h has declared war on you"
"i has declared war on you"

With a deafening multi-war-horn.



is what happened, and it was as I began the Tower of Mastery.

So python is to blame.

Am I alone in the community in thinking that this hard crunched python response is perhaps inferior to letting the AI make their own minds up on whether they want to declare or not? Obviously there are occasions when dog-piling a nation to prevent it winning IS going to work, but if (like Logos, Gyr and I) we are all best friends, and a war ain't a good idea for anyone, how does investigating alliances as an endgame solution sound?

is what happened, and it was as I began the Tower of Mastery.


ah, I misread. I thought you were building the tower of necromancy.
people declaring war when you start the tower of mastery is intentional, and not a bug. Perhaps an issue for discussion though.

Yeah that always has happened. Same thing happens when you start to build the last of the Religious tower thingie...

No Orthus axe? odd. However I am 80% sure Orthus never spawned in my game... however I got BOTH giant apes. I have never seen malalalalawhaterver, the Orangutan looking one, before. That was neat.

In original FFH, the AI auto-wardecs the player if they start to build the tower of mastery. It was put in to prevent a complete builder game, and then starting the tower with an army too small to defend yourself.

-Colin

I'm not really sure what is wrong. Noticed on a trade with Tasunke that getting his world map crashed the game to desktop. Repeatadly. So decided to try going into world builder. And that causes CTD as well. I could continue the game... just not getting any world maps for now. But figure something out there is causing that crash. And once my ships find it, it's game over. :(

I've never liked the auto-war-declare thing - maybe have a threshold of friendliness? This is like North Korea, Cuba, Nigeria, and Venuzuela declaring war on the USA, and suddenly great Britain is like "you might be awesome soon, let us help kill you too!"

Diplomatic agreements should mean something even if you're going for Tower/Religious victory. As it stands there's no reason to play nice on the way to either victory because everybody's just gonna try to dogpile you anyways.

The Balseraph Galley is a red blob (a tiny red blob) and it's pedia entry is broken (only when playing as the Balseraphs). That rubber duck graphic would be cool for them, if that wasn't already the plan ;).

Recurve archers are excellent anyways
They have a few extra first strikes, and Woodsman II for free.
Also, build a master outfitter (not fletcher) and buy the Windstones upgrade for all your archers. It allows them to shoot over 2 tiles (Austrin only)
If that's the intent, then you've got another bug, because Windstones is Recon-only, not Archery.

If that's the intent, then you've got another bug, because Windstones is Recon-only, not Archery.

Oh dear, thanks for informing. That doesn't even make sense, I don't think there are any recon units which have a ranged attack.

Killed Orthus, no Axe drop. WAI?

Items drop as treasure chests now. Was there no treasure chest on the tile to take an axe from? (Should glow like a promotable unit to stand out)

is what happened, and it was as I began the Tower of Mastery.

So python is to blame.

AI doesn't completely understand that you are winning the game if you finish that building, and it needs to stop you. So to encourage that action they are forced to Declare War. Most AIs who have some standing force will amass a bit more and attack if not already involved elsewhere, it is hectic sometimes, failure at others.

I'm not really sure what is wrong. Noticed on a trade with Tasunke that getting his world map crashed the game to desktop. Repeatadly. So decided to try going into world builder. And that causes CTD as well. I could continue the game... just not getting any world maps for now. But figure something out there is causing that crash. And once my ships find it, it's game over. :(

Do you have Gridlines turned on? Turn them off and try again if so, see if it still crashes. If not, MAYBE the Scions Haunted Lands crash is only happening when you can actually see the units, but most likely it is not that, so I'd like to get a save from you so I can see if this is our third CtD issue of 51.

Oh dear, thanks for informing. That doesn't even make sense, I don't think there are any recon units which have a ranged attack.

If a promotion grants you a range, then you only need something else to give you a value and you are capable of ranged attacks. If Windstones provides both range AND value adjustments, then it GIVES ranged attack ability. If it only provides one of those 2, and no other gear provides them the other, then it is a definite bug/oversight.

Gridlines are not on, and the game still has the same CTD issue. Things are fine on my happy little island. But can't get the world map or access world builder. Here is the most up to date save file from it Xienwolf.

*edit* Save file moved to bug thread.

Yes, Xienwolf, no drop. No treasure chest. Nothing.

As much as I love this latest update, I will have to say that I've never experienced so many CtDs with any game in my life, so far :(

Worst part is that they seemingly appear at random, so I can't pin point anything that might be causing them. No warnings, just a notice that the program has stopped working and crash to the desktop.

Anything special about the kill? Odd location, strange promotions on the attacker or anything at all like that? I just tried killing Orthus myself and got an Axe, so whatever caused it was a situational bug and I'll need some help replicating it :(

Justicar: Crashed for me as well, checking things out now to see if I can fix this one or not.

EDIT: All I can tell on the debugging is that a city exists somewhere that shouldn't. So I would have to guess the Animals or Demons managed to acquire one. I'll see what I can do to cause something to break on my own, but unfortunately I can't figure out much to do with the save just yet.

Deirdra just attacked me with 27 rubber duckies....it may be a bug.

Sarcastic ass, you say? That would be an astute judgment, methinks.

Word.

:)

1) it seems that there's no techs that shorten the time needed to chop forests/jungles, is that working as intended?

2) checked the tech advisor, and technologies that give 75% faster buildtimes of improvements and roads don't show any icon about it, but they do show the info on mouseover. so for example exploration has no icons whatsoever, which looks kinda odd since it looks like it doesn't give anything. however, techs that give increased yields with certain improvements ( like engineering for the mills for example ) show an icon. if that icon could be used also to graphically show the "75% faster workrate for building X" in the tech that would be kinda useful methinks.

3) a minor suggestions: imho all lairs should spawn with a defender on them, not just goblin forts. it just feels weird to see them unprotected and be able to explore them or just sit on them and prevent barbs from spawning

4) any idea when the rituals are going to be added back in? I'm talking about curse the lands, appease the gods etc. , it's been a long time since they've been gone but I see they're still in the pedia :D

5) in custom game, if you choose a civ and scroll down to the bottom of the list you'll find Z_TXT_CIV_something, not sure if this is normal or what?

6) it seems that the version of Flavourmod included in FF 051 is still 2.7.0 ( or at least that's what CvFlavourInterface.py claims ) . that would be pretty sad, since the versions that came out after that had some pretty nifty tweaks and feature in them :(

aside from that, I think it would be a nice idea to include with 051 the mapscripts that usually come bundled with flavourmod, namely Perfectworld2.03, MountainCoast1.2.0 and ErebusContinent2.0 . ;)

7) a scout explored a lair, and it got the result "rubble falls off, threatening to kill... you suffer 1% damage" 1% damage doesn't seem to make much sense to me :D

8) I started a game with end of winter and barbarian world. aside from the fact that despite barbarian world the game runs pretty smooth ( which me likes VERY MUCH! :D ) , I notice that some land is still grassland or plains, which I think is normal and will eventually become plains and desert. however, one thing looks really weird. see the attached screenshot on ErebusContinent, and the way the ice is all cracked instead of being solid in the southern portion of the map ( look at the minimap ) . seems to me that end of winter thinks the southern portion of the map is hotter, but actually I'm using toroidal, so both the northern and southern section are cold, while the equator is the middle strip of the map. weird, but possibly a mapscript issue. edit: yeah, now I see. it's caused by the fact that ErebusContinent, when not using toroidal, considers the south as hot and the north as cold.

9) the dawn of man screen for Varn Gosam still claims he starts with Creative and Financial, whereas he starts with Spiritual and Creative. actually, I think Spiritual and Financial would fit him better, but whatever.

10) umh, maybe lairs should not spawn very very close to starting locations. turn 1, I've just seen a capitol with a barrow 1N of it and one 2S of it, so both in the BFC. the one that was 1N of it had some deer under it though :lol: possibly an issue with the mapscript actually. should lairs spawn on resources? then again, maybe it was flavourstart placing a resource there after the map got generated though.

Anything special about the kill? Odd location, strange promotions on the attacker or anything at all like that? I just tried killing Orthus myself and got an Axe, so whatever caused it was a situational bug and I'll need some help replicating it :(


Nothing special comes to mind.

Orthus was moving through my cultural boundaries. I had five warriors in the city he first headed to. Instead of attacking the place, he pillaged all the roads around it (only improvements I had at the time) then once he started heading towards the next city, I moved all of the warriors out to confront him. He turned around and killed on on the barbarians' turn, then I piled the rest on him until he died, come my own.

No fancy upgrades on the warriors. The first upgrade for strength. The one that got him managed to do so on a 20% victory chance. All the messages popped up about Orthus having died, but there wasn't anything left after his death. No treasure chest, no option to pick anything up, nor see anything. Orthus had been on a regular grassland tile, the warriors moving off of a hills to attack him

I figure it was one of those random, strange bugs, as I too haven't been able to duplicate it in any other game.

I just ran some worldbuilder tests on the Orthus issue, because I had a similar problem pop up. It turns out Orthus drops the axe every time, but, if the treasure chest is inside your cultural borders it disappears at the end of the turn if nobody picks it up.

Svartalfar in the game? Maybe they stole the Axe? Don't think they can steal that early though :(


The Chest popping out of your lands is certainly a problem, I'll have to see where I missed something with my Communal tag. Chest should only auto-destroy when empty, and should NEVER move or be moved.

Gekko;8287339']1) it seems that there's no techs that shorten the time needed to chop forests/jungles, is that working as intended?

It isn't possible to alter the time required for a feature yet, haven't written code for that particular portion of build orders.

Gekko;8287339'] 2) checked the tech advisor, and technologies that give 75% faster buildtimes of improvements and roads don't show any icon about it, but they do show the info on mouseover. so for example exploration has no icons whatsoever, which looks kinda odd since it looks like it doesn't give anything. however, techs that give increased yields with certain improvements ( like engineering for the mills for example ) show an icon. if that icon could be used also to graphically show the "75% faster workrate for building X" in the tech that would be kinda useful methinks.

Bah, damnable Python. Yes, that would be a good thing to have...

Gekko;8287339'] 5) in custom game, if you choose a civ and scroll down to the bottom of the list you'll find Z_TXT_CIV_something, not sure if this is normal or what?

Error from not fully redacting a change which wasn't included in 51 at the end of things. That is the Random Civ which Random Good/Neutral/Evil leaders belong to.

Gekko;8287339']9) the dawn of man screen for Varn Gosam still claims he starts with Creative and Financial, whereas he starts with Spiritual and Creative. actually, I think Spiritual and Financial would fit him better, but whatever.

The part at the top that states his Traits, or something in the text blurb that gives strategy/background?

the traits are stated right, it's the strategy text that's outdated. it's outdated in FFH as well of course.

By the way, if a team member responds to a "potential bug" and seems to indicate that it is indeed something wrong (By some means other than "Already fixed"), PLEASE re-post your issue in the bug thread. I track things posted in the bug thread, and OCCASIONALLY add things I find elsewhere as well. But if it isn't specifically posted in the bug thread, it is frequently forgotten about as I am more "casual" when reading any other thread, including this one.

Even if it is a non-team member, anyone seeming to ratify your complaint is justification to pop into the bug thread and re-post (don't just say "That thing I mentioned in the potential bug threads should be looked at" re-state the problem like you are reporting it the first time, or just copy/paste your original post even)

is it possible to have 3 instances of patrian artifacts spawning in a pair on a standard sized map? i.e. I've seen some patrian artifacts scattered around the map, and there were also 3 pairs of patrian artifacts ( 2 patrian artifacts right next to each other ) ? I thought this was impossible, since patrian artifacts have 0 for both grouprands tags, but then again I ain't no expert. mapscript was perfectworld2 if it matters, with flavourstart enabled. I also had 2 civs with a starting position with 3 reagents each, which is really weird since reagents are a strategic resource and should be fairly rare, I'm pretty sure this is due to the way perfectworld2 adds resources to soften bad starts, however the problem may arise from the fact that Reagents lack a certain XML tag that tells the game never to use them to improve bad starts.

the dawn of man screen for the jotnar gets confused by the fact they don't have a worldspell. it goes : "Worldspell: Other Abilities: +1 from farm , +1 from this + 1 from that" all on the same line so it looks like their worldspell is Other Abilities :D ( or maybe it's Special Abilities, I don't have it under my eyes right now, sorry )

edit: explored a dungeon ( you know, one of those lairs that spawn no monsters ) with a lightbringer, he got 2 xp from it and the exploration did not cause him to lose his remaining movement points for the turn. I guess this is working as intended.

through a mutation one of my units got both the light and heavy upgrades, you'd think that would be impossible :P

through a mutation one of my units got both the light and heavy upgrades, you'd think that would be impossible :P

Naw, I've had units end up with both strong and weak, before.

Welcome to Chaos magic. Leave your sanity at the door, please.

Gekko;8291182']
edit: explored a dungeon ( you know, one of those lairs that spawn no monsters ) with a lightbringer, he got 2 xp from it and the exploration did not cause him to lose his remaining movement points for the turn. I guess this is working as intended.
I used this a lot in my game as the Austrin last night - very powerful, takes a lot of the risk out of exploring, because you can attack the baddies or get out of the way.

Also, is it just me or do lairs keep spawning all game? That is hugely powerful for the Austrin, because they have so many Adventurer promos, they almost never get a BigBad. I popped three techs and a GP before turn 150 (on Monarch), and had a 2x point lead by turn 250. I wasn't even playing well (never played Austrin before, so I was meandering around the tech tree to play with their toys). I just kept marching in circles around my territory, popping lairs as they showed up.

One more thing, somewhere between balance and bug. In the above game, Tebryn had a score of 170 by turn 250. He had a jungle start, but considering that he starts with fire mana, still having jungle in your lands 250 turns in is inexcusable.

yep, lairs keep popping up in unowned territory all throughout the game.

about Tebryn, it seems to be made way worse by the fact that you don't need any special tech to clear jungles quickly right now, so you can just do that from turn 1.

Fire mana is worthless for clearing forests or jungles. Perhaps something we should look at.

It gets better at it if the AC is higher, but early game it's pretty garbage.
I actually like it because it changes worthless (for most civs) jungle into burnt->new->regular forests, which are much more handy, instead of just chopping them down.

I really think you should be able to cast smoke a second time in a smoking tile for instafire.

Hm, Hello. I've played ff for a while, but never bothered to make an account on the forums, until now anyway. Ah, I'm not sure if it's a bug -I suppose thats why I'm posting here- but when I obtained open borders with the evil elves-svartsomthing- I sent an ecclesiastic to spread empyrean, once reaching the cell next to one of thier cities - he was immediately fired upon. Thinking it was just a ranged attack bug, I ordered the unit to go to the city -he promptly charged to his death in combat-. I was not at war with the svart -though I am at war with the good elves and kahti- so my question is if they just hate empyrean or if it's a bug.

I don't have a save or anything for you-differant compy-, sorreh.

The Svart's worldspell grants Hidden Nationality to all of their units, which makes them able to attack anyone regardless of diplomatic status.

One upside of this is that you can send your stronger units in (while still at peace) and kill their units for free XP and weaken your neighbor at the same time.

One downside is that (correct me if I'm wrong) the Svarts don't get kicked out of your borders if they declare war, so signing open borders with them is often a bad idea.

I don't think jungles should become burnt forest after burning. it makes no sense to me..

hbar, that's not a Svart feature, it's Council of Esus.

I don't think jungles should burn at all, considering they are rainforests. Of course, that wouldn't be fun, because then any civ that starts in a jungle would be screwed (except the orcs, of course. and the lizardmen.)

Function > flavor.

Kylorin taught me that, given enough mana and skill with the flame, everything burns-- wood, steel, even rock. Therein lies the solution to most problems a mage might encounter during his career.
~Mikel Dylantyr, Great Sage

So, you're saying that a Nuclear bomb shouldn't be able to eliminate a jungle? :)
Seriously, now, that's what a nuclear bomb is, fire in a nice compacted 1,100,000,000 degree form.
That's how hot they are actually.

But still, everything can burn if hit by enough fire.
Why should a rain forest be immune to fire? Seriously? Fire is also caused by a lightning strike. Are you saying jungles can't burn down because they're always wet? Again, Fire is hot, fire stops wetness from causing the fire to not work. It dries up the wetness. So, no more wetness.

Maybe I'm just confused by what you're saying, hbar.

Throwing a burning torch into a jungle certainly won't lset it alight. But magical fire probably could.

Yeah, 1 torch, Yes.
An arc of magic fire, rain of fire balls or magic "flame thrower". Yes.

Trying to combust a jungle with torch: A$ 1,035
Trying to combust a jungle with magic fire: A$8.34
Succesfully combusting a junle with magic fire: Priceless

Foreverything else, there's master card.

what's that master card thingie? is this a piece of equipment? can I get it from lair exploration?

Yeah, it's a cursed item that makes you're amount of gold seem infinite, only to demand make every 1 gp you spent 150 turns later, and if you don't, it reposses you're empire.

that seems evil. I bet Mammon has something to do with it.

Throwing a burning torch into a jungle certainly won't lset it alight. But magical fire probably could.

Is the fire in Erebus magical? Certainly, the Fire I spell is, but that only creates smoke. Is the subsequent fire still magical? What about the raging, continent-wide forest fire 50 turns later? If every fire is magical, then yes, jungles should burn. If the spell is magic but the fire is mundane, then I don't think jungles should catch fire from adjacent burning tiles (Fire I is still okay, though).

Note that I'm not arguing for a gameplay change, just an exposition on the conflicting logic of physics and magic.

I'm playing with the commander system a bit and noticed that TXT_KEY_SPELL_JOIN_COMMANDER is used in the basic commander system, yet only exists in the Bannor module.

I'm guessing this would cause problems if anyone decides to remove the Bannor module from their game.

Yes, I would have imagined that text key was in my Modcomp file, must have made the spell while in the middle of other things and not paid attention :)

Is the fire in Erebus magical? Certainly, the Fire I spell is, but that only creates smoke. Is the subsequent fire still magical? What about the raging, continent-wide forest fire 50 turns later? If every fire is magical, then yes, jungles should burn. If the spell is magic but the fire is mundane, then I don't think jungles should catch fire from adjacent burning tiles (Fire I is still okay, though).

Note that I'm not arguing for a gameplay change, just an exposition on the conflicting logic of physics and magic.

Dude, a forest fire will burn everything until it runs out of fuel, or gets put out. This is essentially what a burning tile is. To say that fire should ignore some forms of fuel when it's not magical is just silly.

ideally you'd have some sort of controlled fire in your own borders so you can burn jungles and such without getting smoke elementals

Whenever a fall further only leader declares war on you, they don't say anything. There's just a blank text box.

Dude, a forest fire will burn everything until it runs out of fuel, or gets put out. This is essentially what a burning tile is. To say that fire should ignore some forms of fuel when it's not magical is just silly.

Actually, forests are in general pretty resistant to being burned. The reason for this is that forests that catch fire easily tend to burn down, so they aren't around.

It takes somewhat unusual conditions, like drought, to create a forest fire, and then it burns out in at most a few weeks.

It takes somewhat unusual conditions, like drought,

Or Fire Mana :lol:

To start a fire, this is true, but once a forest fire is going it most often gets put out by a change of wind pushing it back to where there is no fuel left to burn. After it's going, drought conditions merely increase the serverity and speed of the blaze. I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if extremely dry areas burned out faster than ones with some latent moisture, simply because a wet fire smolders and sticks around for much longer.

Sooo...let me get this strait.

We're talking about a source of fire spawned by arcane energies, that, when practiced enough, could be shaped to form a globe of burning flame large enough to decimate city walls and turn groups of soldiers and their weapons into ash and melted iron, and at it's peak, form living beings of pure, horrific flame..

..And we're wondering if it can cause a forest to catch on fire and stay on fire?

Just to make my position clear I'm arguing that it can :crazyeye:

Two casts of fire 1's smoke in the same tile should cause a fire. /thread.

Discuss.

Starting a fire in two different areas is a much better way of starting a fire than just starting one place and hoping it catches. Twice the chance of developing into a fire.

Another way of looking at it is the second cast boosts the intensity of a fire, much like blowing on coals will get them flaming...

Either way a second cast should upgrade to fire.

As of patch A, the College of Theology still "cannot be built by any civilization".

Donal Lugh recruiter ability that he and every commander has appears to be bugged, when he uses it it seems he gets two times more troops then he should, he just got 10 units from a 13 pop city, when a normal commander does it they would get 5.

Problem with the whole fire thing is that, well, tiles with fires in them, as I recall, are impassable for units... And therefore, more importantly, can't be created on a tile with a unit on them. Thus, casting fire on the tile twice would logically have a slight problem with that.

Now, granted, the last I checked that was several versions ago, but it was still the case. Now, I would say that perhaps you can have it work like the spring spell which extinguishes flames in adjacent tiles, in that it turns smoke in adjacent tiles to flames.

Recruiter gives twice as many units in cities which have a temple of the order, that is probably what you are seeing Grimz.

It appears that the fix for the College and the related schools never quite made it off my harddrive. I actually merged the change back out of my own code after I fixed it, but claimed it was all better in notes to the team :blush: I'm used to playing in the DLL and assuming all the differences in the XML were caused by other people :)

Donal Lugh recruiter ability that he and every commander has appears to be bugged, when he uses it it seems he gets two times more troops then he should, he just got 10 units from a 13 pop city, when a normal commander does it they would get 5.


It's been this way since FFH. I've always thought that the tooltip, rather than the spell, was bugged. If it gave as few troops as it says it should, I don't think it would ever be worth using.

My vote is to change what it says it does, to match what it actually does. Rather than changing the function.

Getting a werewolf from the Foxford event doesn't make it ravenous or bloodied or anything. Using said werewolf on, say, a wolf, can then make a werewolf wolf, who then dies of redundancy. And from only having one combat strength.

is it intentional that the divided soul UU cannot carry hawks?

Getting a werewolf from the Foxford event doesn't make it ravenous or bloodied or anything. Using said werewolf on, say, a wolf, can then make a werewolf wolf, who then dies of redundancy. And from only having one combat strength.

The werewolf from Foxford counts as a Bloodied werewolf, even though it doesn't list it as such. I've had the unit that ended up with lycanthropy upgrade to a Greater Werewolf during a heated battle, so it works as normal..just..takes longer than it used to.

I do agree that the werewolf (wolf) is rather ridiculous...at first. After a number of turns, the wolf will calm down and turned bloodied automatically. Just getting it to survive that long can be a pain.

I do agree that the werewolf (wolf) is rather ridiculous...at first. After a number of turns, the wolf will calm down and turned bloodied automatically. Just getting it to survive that long can be a pain.

Why is a wolf being infected with mandom more ridiculous than a man being infected with wolfdom?

I could understand complaining about werewolf gorillas, but wolves?

I think you need to read more Terry Pratchett.

don't mess with werewolf gorillas. they'll tear your face off. :lol:

Game crashes at end turn, dunno what is causing it, haven't had this problem with any version or mod of FfH.

Savegame attached.

It seems that Mountain Coast map script is not a fan of multi-player, or, at least not a fan of me playing multi-player. Two others and I play on Big and Small -or Perfect World 2, depending on what we want-; we use direct IP connection.

Anyway, the second time we attempted using Mountain Coast[peaks max, lakes max, ranges max, continents] we loaded separately. This is to say, I hit launch in the lobby and we each constructed our own map and promptly got an OOS on entry. When describing details of the land to each other one friend mentioned finding Aifon Isle on land, surrounded by land, I also found a crab resource with the barbarian label for Patrian artifacts in water. {Neither of us were Scion so I'm not sure I should have even been able to see them}

I saved the game and we both relaunched with that save and no OOS occurred. The map still had funky features everywhere, but it didn't OOS at least. {We quit that save and just played a PerfectW2 Map to avoid possible instability.}

The reason I didn't mention our first attempt with the MountainCoast mapscript is due to us switching to a different script, because of starting off in the middle of a great plains that we never really found the end of with 20-ish turns of scouting. I doubt this was due to a bug, just a bad start.

On the upside this is the only error we have really seen which is amazing *remembers the first few times he played FF with MP and all of the infinite ways to cause an OOS* Great job FF team! FF has really improved -stability wise- since those days.

Ps: I posted this in the Possible Bug thread because I wasn't sure if it was a 3.19 or FF bug, or if it was already known.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Hello -again-, I was playing the Illians yesterday. Trying to kill off the AI quickly, I activated the Illian World Spell on Turn 1 -before I even had my first city. [Grammar Edit] For all I know the world spell worked, the trick is, I'm not sure. First it didn't effect my teammates -it did in FFH2 but that might have changed in FF- and it didn't give a turn timer to show when it would wear off -a FFH2 feature that I'm not sure if FF changed-.

Most evil world spell in game IMO but it helps balance the Illians methinks.


Ps: This is a nice thread.

2Hydroclopse, I would suggest you and your friend have different versions of MountainCoast installed.

Hm, we shouldn't. In lobby it doesn't flag anyone with the MOD tag which usually says there might be differences; also the MountainCoast problems aren't reliable, for instance our first use of it just made a bad starting spot -without OOS-, it's really only the second one where it freaked out.

I am not 100% certain that it checks your mapscript for being declared as Mod. You could try having him delete his copy of the mapscript (or rename at least) so that it generates on your machine and transfers to his. Longer load time, but guaranteed map synch.

Game crashes at end turn, dunno what is causing it, haven't had this problem with any version or mod of FfH.

Savegame attached.

This doesn't seem to be a Patch A (second version) save.

Actually, MountainCoast IS bugged for MP. There was a discussion about it in his thread... Something about him using a different setup for SP and MP, to balance starting zones?

Recruiter gives twice as many units in cities which have a temple of the order, that is probably what you are seeing Grimz.
Makes sense, thats gonna be real useful now :D

This doesn't seem to be a Patch A (second version) save.

That is very strange, as it was a game launched from the auto installer.

The werewolf from Foxford counts as a Bloodied werewolf, even though it doesn't list it as such. I've had the unit that ended up with lycanthropy upgrade to a Greater Werewolf during a heated battle, so it works as normal..just..takes longer than it used to.

You're sure? Mine is at ~300 experience and still hasn't upgraded.

Edit: Never mind, after cloning Acheron, I seem to have gained a few points of strength!

Is hotseat currently supported(and if so, do I need to tweak anything to get it to work)? Whenever I try to turn on resources or build a city, etc in hotseat I get a crash.

hotseat works perfectly find in my experience. You should check that you have bts patched to 3.19, and that you have the latest version of FF and Patch A installed

Yup, have 3.19, and just reinstalled .51. I'll regrab patch A to make sure I have the 2nd version of it though.

Nope, still dying after that. Can't find any log with any info on the crash either. Are there other logs besides the ones in C:\Documents and Settings\[Username]\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword.

Single player works fine though.

Edit: Well some info, it was either related to bug or blue marble. I had both installed for vanilla(bug from the svn build), when I uninstalled bug and deleted the custom assets folder, it seems to work now.

You can disable CustomAssets in the INI. Was supposed to be set that way on release of this big version, I'll see that it is set up like that with next patch.

It appears, if one were to put a naval unit with an open slot for unit storage -say a galley- next to land, that units can board the naval unit without using the button to board. This I think is a neat feature and I believe its been around for a while.

Yesterday, a friend playing with me did this and then told the boat to go off somewhere to scout, while the non-naval unit was standing on the boat. The boat promptly left the unit behind -on the ocean cell-. The unit could walk onto land from the ocean, but couldn't walk any further out.


Posting here to check to see if it might be a problem on his side, a feature, a bug, or if its already known.

Edit: This was with Av2 if it might effect anything.

Well, this was quite strange and I felt compelled to register after seeing this one:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt20/Eldrene101/Strange.jpg

The settings were Erebus with the Erebus plot finder and All Unique Features enabled, but without the flavorwise start locations for civs/unique features. Kinda curious if not turning on that option is what caused this.

Edit: Southeast of that starting position just a tad is the Ring of Carcer too. Is this a new record?

Wow, quite the start! How small is the map?

Not sure if this is a bug with FFH, FF, or just a mechanic im unaware of.

I was Bannor, Huge Erebus Continents. Acheron spawned next to my capital (impeding my culture) and proceeded to burn all of the forests in my lands (he also had Yggdrasil if in his BFC if that is of any significance). These forest grew back quite rapidly as new forests while fires raged elsewhere, during all of this I discovered Mining and saw a copper resource on a grassland hill with a new forest on it. I sent my workers out (2) to chop the forest in preparation for the completion of Bronze Working.

After a few turns of chopping I recieved the hammers as normal in my nearby city, I got the message about the forest having been chopped, yet the forest remained. I chopped again, 3 turns or so later the whole cycle repeated. Doing this with 3 or 4 workers allowed me to consistently chop the same forest, receive production from the wood chopped and gain a large amount of experience on my workers. This persisted for about 60 turns then finally I was allowed to chop the forest without it reappearing, and build my copper mine.

Note: This was before I applied Patch A (Second Version)

On the lots of unique features, they do seem to like to clump. My latest game I had 7 pines in my bfc, remnants and pool in a city spot to the west(about 4 west), broken sepulchur and tomb of sucellus close to the nw and circle + letum frigis to the sw. I think part of the problem might be that most erabus maps don't spawn with all that much grassland(its mostly plains), and I think that alot of the world features can only spawn on grassland, so you get nice tight clumps of them. Perhaps a few of the grassland only ones should be switched to plains, since plains starts rarely seem to get any features.

(its kinda silly getting 3 free mana as the ammurites from features with your first 3 cities + 3 mana nodes

Edit: Ok I'm wrong, looking at the xml, almost everything that can spawn on grassland can also spawn on plains. There isn't some issue where it tries to spawn them on grassland first or something is there--not exactly sure how the mapscript "BestImprovementRegion" stuff works--might be such that it always prefers grasslands when it can?

Edit: Only 3 (yggdrasil, 7 pines and standing stones have grass set, however, most don't have anything set, do we know that it defaults to the -1 that its checking, I note that for most of them, favoredTerrain isn't set to anything, while when being placed, its looking for a -1)

Edit: Actually looks like its being set in the default to -1. Wonder if its anything to do with the ideal moisture settings though--quite a few of them have either .6 or .75 set for this.

Edit4: Ok, I ran a few tests with standard world size, temperate climate. remnants, tomb and broken sepulchure 9 times out of 10 spawned within a 8 or so squares of each other, 7 pines, the pool and the prison ocasionally joined them(the 1 time the remnants spawned somewhere else, but ygg spawned with them). Those 3 all have ideal moisture .6 and ideal altitude of .5 meaning they will almost always prefer the same region?

Edit5: Tweaked the weights on those 3, and they stopped always spawning together, so it looks like that was the reason. Only did minor tweaks, went from .6/.6/.6 to .4/.55/.65 for idealMoisture and similar things with altitude. I'd suggest increasing the weights(pref.moistureWeight and pref.altitudeWeight) and making it so that none of the improvements have exactly the same values so that theres a greater spread of them.

Wow, quite the start! How small is the map?

It wasn't small at all, it was Huge size, which is why I was so astonished.

Another very minor bug? I had a firebow spawn with fire II, so he has two abilities that do exactly the same thing :). Would be cool if when they managed to spawn with fire I/II their ignite was more powerful or something?

I had a freeze crash, one that had me manually restart my PC.
I had just killed the Chislev (Absaroke or something to that order), and then the game crashes. Funny thing is that after I fire the game up again, the now exterminated Chislev are still alive, without any cities or units. Yes, they did die, as in "the Chislev civilization have been destroyed" die.

Quite odd.

It wasn't small at all, it was Huge size, which is why I was so astonished.

I've had the same issue in my Multiplayer games.

Huge map size, but had five unique features within one city's radius.

--

Unrelated to this, a couple more things I've noticed.

(1) When start Multiplayer games, myself and two other people get stuck for a LONG amount of time at "Initializing".

(2) As the Kahd, I still have religions passively spreading to my cities, even with the Intolerant trait.

EDIT1

(3) When a Gnosling has access to Earth mana, it receives a promotion. This promotion is named:
TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_GNOSLING_EARTH

(4) Being the first to discover a Religious Technology as Kahd (Intolerant) still founds that religion.

(5) In Multiplayer games, Furia the Mad and I think Perpentach have unusually 'long' name bars. It's makes it hard to hit the ready button, and in fact when we tried to resume the game on another occassion, we couldn't -- because the name bar pushed the ready button off the screen.

(6) When I created Kithra Kyriel, it did that pop-up box thing that it does for all heroes and great people. However the description for Kithra was something like TXT_KEY_KITHRA_something

The parts about the Kahdi arn't bugs. Intolerant prevent the adopting of religeons, and possible the building of Temples.

The parts about the Kahdi arn't bugs. Intolerant prevent the adopting of religeons, and possible the building of Temples.

Except this is the text for Intolerant in game:

Intolerant
-Cannot adopt religion
-Religions will never passively spread in your cities
-Discovering a Religious Technology will not Found a Holy City in your Empire

(Whilst playing as Kahd, hover over the Kahdi flag)

I'm running around with my werewolf Acheron, and I guess I can "convert" to werewolves other civ's heroes (and animal heroes). Theoretically, the Baron allows you to get your own army of heroes. Now, isn't that a bit overpowered?

Ok, werewolf Acheron sounds silly. I'd vote that the Dragon racial promo should block werewolf.

But werewolf heroes in general, sound pretty neat. You HAVING that army of heroes seems a bit off, though. It might be nicer if they'd remain with their original civ, but go crazy now and then, or even permanantly become barbarian.

Except this is the text for Intolerant in game:

Intolerant
-Cannot adopt religion
-Religions will never passively spread in your cities
-Discovering a Religious Technology will not Found a Holy City in your Empire

(Whilst playing as Kahd, hover over the Kahdi flag)

Sorry, I havn'y played Kahdi in a while. When by brother playedthen, religeon spread, and the religeon was founded by the tech (but no holy city)

(1) When start Multiplayer games, myself and two other people get stuck for a LONG amount of time at "Initializing".

I've found this is highly dependent on mapscript. Maps with complex generation rules (Erebus, ErebusContinent, MountainCoast, etc.) tend to take forever to initialize. Try it with a Pangea and see if it speeds up.

screenshot of Remnants of Patria with sheep. :D

edit: btw, this screenshot is taken on ErebusContinent mapscript, proof that it does work fine and should be included in patch C. it's the best mapscript you can play FF on right now, period.

there could be something fishy going on with mapscripts though, since ErebusContinent fails to work for WarKirby, Erebus with peak reduction takes forever to load and Perfectworld2 sometimes just plain won't load.

Again some weirdness with supposedly destroyed civs.

This time, as the Calabim, I destroyed the Malakim, and the turn after they reappeared, though this time without any crash.
The other civ I destroyed, the Scions, did die.

This is with Patch A, as I wanted to finish the game.

Gekko;8314052']screenshot of Remnants of Patria with sheep. :D

edit: btw, this screenshot is taken on ErebusContinent mapscript, proof that it does work fine and should be included in patch C. it's the best mapscript you can play FF on right now, period.

there could be something fishy going on with mapscripts though, since ErebusContinent fails to work for WarKirby, Erebus with peak reduction takes forever to load and Perfectworld2 sometimes just plain won't load.

Haha. What is the yield of that tile? Floodplains/Sheep/Ruins of Patria? 4/4/1, unimproved?

The treasure chest you can get from dungeons and lairs has become even more useless, as you can no longer see were the chest it, as it's marked does not revele tile.

ah, that's true. it should probably only reveal the tile it's on...

a different matter about Verdandi for the Elohim: given their lore, +25% city attack seems pretty weird. maybe they should have a special version of the Verdandi that has +40% vs melee or something. also, make sure that Elohim's Verdandi need a building to be built, cuz that's what is special about doviello melee units and it doesn't fit the Elohim.

Hmm, but isn't it that way, that the Elohim asked the Verdandi to join them after they have seen their prowess in battle ?
And thus it's not "wrong" if they don't fit the general "don't attack"-theme of the Elohim ?
This would also explain that they don't have any building pre-req. (another sort of restriction -like money(costs gold to hire) or fame(needs XXX in empire)-would be nice though)

This broke my heart:

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3413/civ4screenshot0001.jpg

Maybe workers should be excluded from this event?

Again some weirdness with supposedly destroyed civs.

This time, as the Calabim, I destroyed the Malakim, and the turn after they reappeared, though this time without any crash.
The other civ I destroyed, the Scions, did die.

This is with Patch A, as I wanted to finish the game.

That happens when they have a piece of equipment or a treasure chest somewhere. It's still alive and tagged for their civ, so they're still technically alive until it is removed.

Related: You no longer have to own a treasure chest or even be able to see it in order to use it?

No, equipment all sits in Treasure Chests, and Treasure Chests all belong to the Orc Barbarians. So the civs which remain on the scoreboard is something else/new. I still need a savegame (for the current patch) which has that happening which I can play with. I had one for the Sheiam before Patch A, but never had time to investigate it.

There are technically now 2 Treasure Chests in the game, there are the event ones which you "open" and there are the container ones which hold equipment. The event kind you still own yourself, and only you can see them/interact with them. The equipment ones everyone can see and everyone can interact with.

No, equipment all sits in Treasure Chests, and Treasure Chests all belong to the Orc Barbarians. So the civs which remain on the scoreboard is something else/new. I still need a savegame (for the current patch) which has that happening which I can play with. I had one for the Sheiam before Patch A, but never had time to investigate it.

There are technically now 2 Treasure Chests in the game, there are the event ones which you "open" and there are the container ones which hold equipment. The event kind you still own yourself, and only you can see them/interact with them. The equipment ones everyone can see and everyone can interact with.

Are you certain about that? Because I just captured a gryphon, flew it to one of the islands where treasure chests tend to accumulate, had it open one I didn't own and it couldn't see, and then the Lanunites were re-defeated. I got the longbowyerism tech out of it.

Edit: here is a savegame I just made. Run your dragon over the lanun civ and it'll drop off the scoreboard, then pop back on. I left a Lanun treasure under the scout.

Another oddity: after you defeat the Lanuns, a new treasure chest (of a different type) will briefly appear near the scout, then despawn on the next turn. There are two treasure chests in the worldbuilder unit menu. The first one doesn't seem to do anything and is what spawns and despawns, and the second one is what you get from an event.

if that's with patch B you should definitely post a savegame I guess.

If you got a tech from it, then it was a normal event type of chest, so it does belong to a player (and should have been deleted with them, so probably the BLIND tag is being a bit TOO limiting and prevents death), but you shouldn't have been able to interact with it. If you got equipment from it, then it was a container, and should have belonged to the Orcs.

Yes, this is patch B. The only difference is I fixed the xml for austrin longbows and clan of ember archmages.

If you got a tech from it, then it was a normal event type of chest, so it does belong to a player (and should have been deleted with them, so probably the BLIND tag is being a bit TOO limiting and prevents death), but you shouldn't have been able to interact with it. If you got equipment from it, then it was a container, and should have belonged to the Orcs.

I actually think that being able to take treasure chests from other players as long as you can see them with the true sight promotion would be neat. Kind of gives you motivation to go find them before someone else does, rather than just waiting until it's possible to get like mithril working from them. :o

About the Battleline, Block and Loose Formations not working: I've found what does it. The formation promotions themself can only be applied to melee units, but the requirement promotions (the ones with the red icons) can't be applied to any units. Adding the RequireUnitCombat tag and setting it to melee units solves the problem.

are gretchin supposed to be able to attack? I have now had multiple instances where a stack of doom :mischief: consisting of one or two barb goblins and up to 10 gretchin came up to my territory and suicided against one or two warriors - its a nice source of XP - but I don't think its intended...

They should probably be marked defensive only. But more importantly, the Barbarians shouldn't have a worker at all.

Their ability to attack is intentional. Their secondary function is suiciding against incoming enemies to weaken them. They're not supposed to be sent out as an army though.

The bug is Bhall spawning random workers. Xien, have you got the code setup to just spawn any of their UUs? I set gretchin as a UU for Bhall and Clan, but didn't touch anywhere else

Yes, any unit that the Orcs are capable of spawning, they will spawn. The ONLY units that they are allowed are the ones listed specifically. So they weren't capable of getting workers until you listed the Gretchin for them. (ie - everything not on the list for them is assumed as NONE)

They should probably be marked defensive only. But more importantly, the Barbarians shouldn't have a worker at all.

I also had one spawn on a small peninsula my culture had nto filled it yet. Was neat having the little guy running around for 100 turns helping out... (on automatically network) till he ran out of my culture for some odd reason building a road to nowhere.

Barbs are definitely making them but I only saw the one, not in mass.

Are the gretchin actually helping to build anything around barbarian territory? It could be interesting and quite amusing, if the barbarians actually used them as workers.

Playing as the Lanun.
I had a new city placed on a march, and it worked an unimproved fish/coast tile.
However, the city didn't produce anything, not even one :hammers:, that is unless I got the city to use a different tile (mine/hill/grassland).

Something's fishy here (pun intended).

Edit: Using the ErebusContinent script. And just realized that the fish tile is an ocean tile, even though it's next to a land tile. Weird.

Edit2: I think I found the bug, and it's probably not related to FF, but to the ErebusContinent script.
I play with a round world, and the fish tile appears to be just on the other side on the line that would divide the map normally.

Edit3: Now that I think about it, it might have been that the apprentice civic actually were the culprit. I didn't realize that it rounded the :hammers: down.

I have a hunter that I want to move across the sea, so I load 'im on a galley. But when I move the galley, the hunter stays put on the coast square.
WTH?

It appears, if one were to put a naval unit with an open slot for unit storage -say a galley- next to land, that units can board the naval unit without using the button to board. This I think is a neat feature and I believe its been around for a while.

Yesterday, a friend playing with me did this and then told the boat to go off somewhere to scout, while the non-naval unit was standing on the boat. The boat promptly left the unit behind -on the ocean cell-. The unit could walk onto land from the ocean, but couldn't walk any further out.


Posting here to check to see if it might be a problem on his side, a feature, a bug, or if its already known.

Edit: This was with Av2 if it might effect anything.

I have a hunter that I want to move across the sea, so I load 'im on a galley. But when I move the galley, the hunter stays put on the coast square.
WTH?

It seems I'm not the only one with this problem then.

You were probably loading a hawk onto him.

Or possibly, I think there's some issue with nested carriers. I don't think you can put a hawk on a hunter on a boat.

In my instance I don't believe the unit was carrying anything -but he was quite possibly a hunter-; also, in my instance the load button wasn't used to put the unit on the ship -he just walked onto it while the ship was next to land-.

In my case, he definitely wasn't carrying anything, but it was the only unit that had the problem, so I think you are correct in that it's a problem with carriers getting carried.

Is it intended that trade ships require open borders to enter a city (and thus to do a trade mission)?

Is it intended that trade ships require open borders to enter a city (and thus to do a trade mission)?

Why shouldn't it be? Open borders has always been a prereq to most kinds of trade.

Well, they do have ignores rival borders, was just making sure it was intended. I don't believe great merchants require open borders for their trade mission?

Edit the only thing that threw me was that I figured they were intended to act like mini-great merchants, prob should update the pedia to reflect this aspect in which they are different from the merchants.

Different issue, is there any way to bloom a tile if you aren't a elf and you have put an improvement on it? Any chance of having bloom destroy your own improvements in this case to allow it to become a forest.

I think that's so they can get where they need to go, though the territory of someone whose borders are closed, to the actual trade partner.

Anyone having issues with world wrapping and not being able to span the globe?

Playing a Jotnar game using the erebus continents script...popped a Skald out of a lair, gave him water walking and started the long trek of proving the world was round.

Which apparently it isn't. I hit the edge and can't wrap to the other side. Not sure where the issue is - perhaps I picked the wrong wrap in the mapscript (I thought I left it at default) or there is something else going on.

FF 51, Patch B.

ErebusContinent has no wraps by default , you probably forgot to set them.

Is it intended for the nightwatch, recieved from founding CoEsus, to not be a unit of CoEsus? -As in, it can't spread CoEsus to other cities- Also, a unit made in a city without CoEsus was able to spread CoEsus, that doesn't seem right.

Nightwatch should always have CoE. Are you SURE the other city didn't have CoE? Either CoE wasn't your state religion, so you couldn't see what cities it was actually in, or it WAS your state religion, so any unit you build is capable of following it, even if their city didn't have it present.

The nightwatch certainly did not have CoE-or at least he couldn't spread it-. Ah, however, CoE was my state religion during the time the unit -with CoE- spawned.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On another note, I've noticed that occasionally the great person progress bar will say that I have 10000000 -not sure if the number of zeros is right, but you get the idea- turns until a unit -insert great person here- is born, however over the course of many turns the progress -the filling of the bar- will be much faster than the 10000000 indication would suggest; and, in fact, occasionally the great person will be made while the numeral aspect of the progress bar is still wacky. It's entirely possible someone else has caught this -as it seems to happen often-, but just being thorough.

The bar should show data for the city with the most points stored. If the city is not currently producing any points, then it claims 10000 turns to creation. You will likely have other cities which are generating points during that time. Though once one of them surpasses the city being tracked it ought to switch to indicate them and tell you a realistic time. I'm surprised to hear that the 10000 bar appears to be filling for you at all. I am relatively certain there aren't any methods of acquiring GPPs which the Bar cannot measure (it wouldn't know about CityBonus applied GPP, but I do not think that anyone uses them for that yet, not even sure I made that possible)

Oof, your ---'s broke frames.

I bring up the bloom point above now that ancient forests actually have some value for non-elves in the late game since you can lumber mill them and it just seems somewhat micro intensive(what was avoided in letting the elves bloom over their own improvements) to not allow a non-elven civ to create a forest in any fashion once they have improved a tile.

So I've got the CoE shrine, and thought I was pretty safe from harm inside my border (outside cities of course), but several times my SoD was attacked, and every time it was my Great Generals that accompanied the stacks that was attacked, and promptly killed.
Once, fighting the Amurites, a couple of hunters and a couple of adepts killed four generals and Severous. I don't know what the Amurites could do to reveal my units (the ritual perhaps), but they shouldn't be able to attack my generals, they were the weakest link (well, perhaps except the adepts).
I'm pretty sure the CoE cloak is missing on generals.

I'm not sure if my game is bugged, since I've never played scions before... but I built alcinus and never got his building thing, got the lady governor person and can't build her manor thing, rousing oration doesn't work, and I can't cast my world spell. Am I missing something obvious? I'm playing as Korinna.

playing chislev and animals are running freely through my culture killing my workers. is this intended?

I'm not sure if my game is bugged, since I've never played scions before... but I built alcinus and never got his building thing, got the lady governor person and can't build her manor thing, rousing oration doesn't work, and I can't cast my world spell. Am I missing something obvious? I'm playing as Korinna.

Alcinus has to build the keep. It's a spell. Go cast it in one of your cities. Also, it cannot be cast in the capital

Melante is the same, she can only govern a city other than your capital.

I think all of Pelemoc's spells can only be cast in other people's cities, not your own.

For the worldspell, I think only melante can cast it, and you need to own all four members of the dark council to do so. They may or may not all have to be in the same tile (not sure about that)

oho! Thank you, sir.

Hm, I've tested it a few more times, and it seems the free nightwatch only lacks CoE when you are the original founder of the religion; once the religion is in the game then all other free nightwatch are CoE.

Are Khad supposed to need Metamagic mana and fewer than maximum number of djinni to spawn fire elementals and flesh golems and spectres and so on?

If not the indention for the kahdi planar gates is messed up.

The Balseraph Galley is some sort of strange red dot that can build worker promotions, but there's also a bug that means you can't make it your active unit.

that looks like it should go in the bug thread :D

The Messhabber of Dis doesn't have his unique Ring of Fire spell and only has fireball

The Messhabber of Dis doesn't have his unique Ring of Fire spell and only has fireball

FFH removed it a long time ago. The tooptip was wrog.

That said, he really does need something better. I made a module for this sort of thing a while back. search for Monstrous creatures. It should work with the current FF

Or just play FFPlus, which has incorporated. :goodjob:

The code for granting spell promotions for Amurite units includes the line:

if city.getNumRealBuilding(gc.getInfoTypeForString('B UILDING_WIZARDS_HALL')) > 0 and not city.getNumRealBuilding(gc.getInfoTypeForString('B UILDING_CAVE_OF_ANCESTORS')) > 0:

I vaguely recall getNumRealBuilding ignoring free buildings, like the mage guilds gained from... that wonder, that I never build... requires a mage guild, is available at Knowledge of the Ether. Totally forgotten the name....

Anyway, the possible bug is that if you build that wonder, you'll never build any real mage guilds, so you'll never get any spell promotions.

(I could be wrong, quite frankly it's so late I'm not even sure Wizards Hall is a Mage Guild replacement.)

I'm not even sure Wizards Hall is a Mage Guild replacement.)[/SIZE]

It is.

What should be used instead of GetNumRealBuilding ? I can edit it in.

It is.

What should be used instead of GetNumRealBuilding ? I can edit it in.

getNumBuilding

In fact, doing a global search and replace to replace getNumRealBuilding with getNumBuilding probably wouldn't break anything that isn't broken.

Would getNumRealBuilding ignore buildings created by spells in general?

For example, things from pelemoc's spells ?

I'm having a thorough look through the eventmanager before I make that global change.

Just done a little test. Indeed, in cities with a free wizard's hall from the catacomb, you never get free spells on creation. I'll fix that while I'm looking over the spell in general

Would getNumRealBuilding ignore buildings created by spells in general?

For example, things from pelemoc's spells ?

I'm having a thorough look through the eventmanager before I make that global change.

I think the spell made buildings are considered real. It just that the engine removes them when there is no local caster. getNumRealBuilding is a Firaxis function, so don't expect it to know about spells and lizards and dragons and...

As far as I can tell getNumRealBuilding is mostly a debug tool. For any in game effects, it rarely should matter if the building was built or granted by wonder. Especially since you can't build a real building after getting a free one.

im wondering.

im playing tectonics at the moment and realized that you cant use forts as a means of creating a canal like in normal bts.

this really sucks i must say. tectonics map often leads to unconnected oceanparts and without canals you cant spread the fishercorporation for example. or is there a way i dont know which could work out?

im wondering.

im playing tectonics at the moment and realized that you cant use forts as a means of creating a canal like in normal bts.

this really sucks i must say. tectonics map often leads to unconnected oceanparts and without canals you cant spread the fishercorporation for example. or is there a way i dont know which could work out?

I believe this is a deliberate thing that the team did, not a bug, I'm not sure why, though. Xienwolf would know.

I believe this is a deliberate thing that the team did, not a bug, I'm not sure why, though. Xienwolf would know.

Yes. The relevant improvement tag is bActAsCity . It allows ships to enter, resources to be collected and City Garrison to work. At least in BtS, I don't think anything has changed.

I think it was removed because the AI places too high value on it.

I favour adding bActAsCity to the higher levels of forts.

I favor removing forts because the AI is freakin' retarded with them. <_<

If the forts had bActasCity the AI would also build them instead of mana nodes and end up wasting many good sources of mana. In Rise of Darkness I had forts not have bActasCity but Castles and Citadels did.

Has anyone been able to load a scenario with FF? Whenever I try I get this:

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu321/Nikito_Shadefire/Civ4ScreenShot0087.jpg

Then another message that I can't see when I hit OK and choose a leader and then it crashes to desktop.

Did you write a scenario for FF? We are not compatible with the base FfH ones by any stretch of imagination.

Did you write a scenario for FF? We are not compatible with the base FfH ones by any stretch of imagination.

Yes, is there anything special that prevents it from loading?

Edit: Got it. Only had to add in data for players 35 to 49.

I'm not sure if these are bugs are not:

1. In my current game no one else is researching religions. It well past turn 300 so I'm now slowly researching them all myself.

2. I can't trade for resources. It seems the game only lets me trade for resources if the other party has the appropriate tech, not if I have the right tech. Is it supposed to be dependent on both parties?

Pel

Pelaka, that seems a bug just based on the fact that in my recent SP games I've had every religion snagged but Ashen Veil. And sometimes AV, too.

I can confirm the no religion thing, although someone founded FoL in my last game (Classical era start). Other then that, I've had absolutely no trouble nabbing all the shrines in my games.

I can provide a counterpoint. In a hotseat game I've been playing as the dural (on patch B), the Elohim beat me to order. RoK and FoL were founded long before that, too. And the elohim also founded Empyrean.

Maybe it's dependant on factors in your game, like everyone else having bad starts, or getting in wars and going for military techs

Yeah, usually I am lucky to snag the religion I beeline, this game I've founded Order, OO, Empy, and Esus.

It really can vary.

Are manes and angel spawns supposed to be working now? I just tested with a stack of 300 ritualists, adepts with death magic and cultists, and nothing happened. This is after I got one manes spawn total in a map loaded with AI civs with OO, AV and aggressive AI, and with the giftUnit function in customfunctions.py rigged to always pass the random number check. Is it because I unrestricted the Infernal civ?

I destroyed the Balseraph in turn 429 (you can see it in the log); but they are still able to negotiate and seem to be still alive in all the reports. I even traded with them and got a few technologies after I signed a peace treaty with them.

My save game from turn 431 is attached.

I expect this is a bug; but maybe there's something going on that I don't know.

There is probably a Treasure Chest which belongs to them somewhere. Had a few such reports, somehow I made the cleanup functions miss those things, probably because they are blind.

I also noticed in this game that I lost a unit that had Orthus Axe, yet the AI for the winning unit did not pick up or use the axe. That seems odd.

If they were on the same tile, they should have certainly picked it up. Otherwise, only Recon units are smart enough to locate items for the AI, and they tend not to maintain enough of them, or keep them in the right general areas, to pick up gear.

AI quirk: In my current game, Auric hasn't created Temples of the Hand in any city so far (turn 236, quick speed). He has done Samhain and the Deepening, however.

Another question: The original intent of puppets was to make it easier for the Balseraphs to cast Dominate without risk, right? Currently, however, the dominated unit is a slave to the puppet, not the master. This means that for Perp, the dominated unit is never usable since the puppet only lasts one turn and the dominee is returned to the original civ at the beginning of the next turn.

I suggest either having the dominee revert to the puppetmaster or make puppets permanent summons.

The original ABUSE of puppets was risk-free Domination. My personal preference BTW is to make Puppets permanent summons, spawning out 2 or 3 at a time, and having them disable casting by the summoner himself, and have fizzle chances and be easier to resist. Then they become a choice between 1 high risk but high effect caster, or 3 risk-free, but semi-useless casters.

Should dragons/griffons be able to fly over a sea if its movement is greater than the number of sea tiles?

As a technical issue, they're not intended to be able to fly. So no.

As a balance issue, I believe they should.

It's just happened to me to have a Mobius Witch spawned without any single magic promotion (meaning fire I or law I or...). So, basically it has channeling II and undead (Was it, now?...I really can't remember what exactly was the other one but im sure she has only two promotions none of which it's a magic )...
Don't know if it's intended, I thought it could be a random result in deciding which promotion this unit should have...

Should dragons/griffons be able to fly over a sea if its movement is greater than the number of sea tiles?
Griffons already can.
As a technical issue, they're not intended to be able to fly. So no.

As a balance issue, I believe they should.
You mean "as a flavor issue". That said, I agree.

BUG? Unimplemented Feature? No commander units can take the Religious Leader II promotion, and no unique units have it.

Commanders and Disciple units don't have access to dunespeak?

BUG? Unimplemented Feature? No commander units can take the Religious Leader II promotion, and no unique units have it.

I belioeve tjhis is a special promotion for some specific hero only. Check if Donal Lugh can learn it

Commanders and Disciple units don't have access to dunespeak?

They don't have access to a lot of things, will be fixed. Didn't know about discip[les though.

I belioeve tjhis is a special promotion for some specific hero only. Check if Donal Lugh can learn it


I did a search through all the XML and Python. There's nothing in there for the Religious Leader II promotion.

I did a search through all the XML and Python. There's nothing in there for the Religious Leader II promotion.


"Zealous" is what the promos are called within the game.

I couldn't find any mention in XML or python outside PromotionInfos.
Zealous2 does have minlevel -1, which is keeping it from being learned.

So far as I know a second level is supposed to be there, but don't see how you'd get it either.

"Zealous" is what the promos are called within the game.

I couldn't find any mention in XML or python outside PromotionInfos.
Zealous2 does have minlevel -1, which is keeping it from being learned.

So far as I know a second level is supposed to be there, but don't see how you'd get it either.

Right, that's what I meant when i said i couldn't find it (that it didn't exist outside promotioninfos). I really want my elohim monks to be able to kill things, right now they're so weak early on that i can't get them leveled up. A commander with these promos would basically double their strength so i can get them to spirit affinity...

Hi I'm finding odd things in this current game as Bannor, on monarch difficulty, fractal map, large with 10 civs. Marathon speed.

First of all, every time my warriors left my cultural boundaries they spend 2 turns "lost" and i lose control of them. Then gain control for a couple turns, then they are "lost" again. I've never ever seen this in any civ4 or ffh game. Is it normal for it to happen so often? I've lost half my military over the first 350 turns, literally, because they are all over the place, "lost".

Secondly around turn 390 I traded to Garrim for hunting tech. I don't "think" this is what caused the issue, maybe coincidence, but now all my cities have a free specialist, akin to the effect of statue of liberty in civ4. Is this normal?

You've got Blighted Forests and Diakanos on - they send your units into that lost state with a spell. Disable the checkbox and disable the problem.

What race are you playing, as far as the bonus specialist goes? Is that Bannor too? The free specialist thing as far as I know only comes from a civic.

You've got Blighted Forests and Diakanos on - they send your units into that lost state with a spell. Disable the checkbox and disable the problem.

What race are you playing, as far as the bonus specialist goes? Is that Bannor too? The free specialist thing as far as I know only comes from a civic.

ah yes i was playing with the blighted forests on. I didn't know what it meant and checked it to make the game harder lol. it worked!

yes bannor. the only civics i had going were city states, religion,apprenticeship, oh and overcouncil. maybe someone voted an overcouncil resolution on a different continent and i got the effect? is there an overcouncil resolution that gives a free specialist in cities?

is there an overcouncil resolution that gives a free specialist in cities?

indirectly, yes. The Liberty civic gives a free specialist.

And there's a resolution to force all members to adopt it, even if they don't have the tech.

I've been getting sporadic memory allocation failures while trying to load an autosaved game while already playing in a game.

It seems to happen when initiliazing the graphics. I didn't use to get these; but have started using the Tectonics map recently. I've got a 512MB graphics card and 3GB of memory.

Anyone else having this problem?

I've been getting sporadic memory allocation failures while trying to load an autosaved game while already playing in a game.

It seems to happen when initiliazing the graphics. I didn't use to get these; but have started using the Tectonics map recently. I've got a 512MB graphics card and 3GB of memory.

Anyone else having this problem?

Its not just limited to autosaves for me. Usually though, the game has to have progressed a fair bit (either the one you are loading, or the one in progress when you try to load) for a Memory Allocation error to occur which suggests that it is somewhat to do with the complexity of the later stages of the game.

I too get the error during initializing the graphics, and also have similar computer specifications.

I just noticed that the CASTE option for cities says it will convert 50% of hammers to gold, 50% of hammers to science, and 50% of hammers to culture.

Does that mean 50% of hammers is split amongst the three places evenly? Or is there a new math in Erebus?

It means, if you normally make 32 hammers, you get
16 gold
16 research
16 culture
While that does in fact equal 150%, you only get 50% of the hammers you'd normally get from production to each.
It's what makes Caste System so delicious to run.

The worker promos claim to add +10% worker rate but they only add 10 to the work rate, I was the Jotnar and their worker only got 10 even though he had 200 work rate (FF+)

That's because the standard base work rate is 100. Adding 10 to the work rate is +10%.

No, GASherbet, it's not based on that at all.

It does in fact add 10%. And is internally consistent with every single other percentage modifier in the game

Percentages in civ games are additive, not multiplicative. What this means, is that your baqse value, and your bonuses, are tracked seperately. And to determine your final value (whether it be production, gold, combat strength, workrate, etc) the bonuses are first added together, and then that percentage is applied to the base value.


An example.

Say you have 100 base production in a city (you're running ROK and you have a LOT of mines)

In addition to these, you're khazad with overflowing vaults, which gives 40%
You have a forge there, which gives another 25% and an artisan's workshop, for another 20.

Under a multiplicative system (which we don't use) you would get:
100 *1.4 * 1.25 * 1.2 = 210 total

Under the Additive system, which is what every civ game has used as far as I can remember, you get:
40+25+20 = 85% bonus
100 * 1.85 = 185 total production.

As you can see, the bonuses are added together before applying to your base. What this means in essence, is that whenever you get a 10% bonus, it gives you an extra 10% of your base value, not of your current value

With workers, I believe all builds have a "cost"./ And workers add a certain amount to the progress on that improvement every turn, which is multiplied by their (workrate / 100) Thusly, taking skilled I increases thw worker's workrate by 10% of the base value. I'm not aware of any way at all to affect that base value

Or, in laymans easier to handle terms: It adds 10% to your workrate. Your workrate is already a percentage: 100 workrate is 100%, adding 10% gives you 110%.

but for Jotnar workers the base is 200, 10% of 200= 20 not 10

but for jotnar workers the base is 200, 10% of 200= 20 not 10

200% + 10% = 210%

200% + 10% = 210%

:facepalm:

or in laymans terms, ignore iceciro's well meaning but poorly-chosen-example post, and instead work from my previous one which explains the situation succinctly.

:facepalm:

Also, I get enough of that on the fourth channel. I've come to expect a more civilised approach to issues here.

Simply, whenever it comes to combining two percentages, you always work in an additive, not multiplicative manner.

ie, 200% + 10% = 210%

500% + 10% = 510%

100000000000000000% + 10% = 100000000000000010%

I'm sure you get the idea.

So, simply, the workers are using now 210%. Not 200(The number, not the percentage) + 10%. :)
Does that help you CivKing?

I'd play more of this, but I've been distracted lately.

200 as a number, never factors into it at all. Jotnar workers do not have a workrate of 200. Rather, they have a workrate of 200%. Seems like this is more an UI fault, than anything.

but in short, there is no bug at work in this situation. "only" gaining +10 workrate from Skilled is as intended, even from jotnar/khazad/golem workers.

200 as a number, never factors into it at all. Jotnar workers do not have a workrate of 200. Rather, they have a workrate of 200%. Seems like this is more an UI fault, than anything.

but in short, there is no bug at work in this situation. "only" gaining +10 workrate from Skilled is as intended, even from jotnar/khazad/golem workers.
Isn't that what I said? It's definitely what I meant. Maybe I failed at my communication. :blush:

The units going "lost" would be from the gameoption of Wilslands or something along those lines. It causes one of 2 wilderness effects to come into play which hamper exploration.

Not quite sure on the other. I would suspect you changed civics at some point and that is what is giving you the free specialist

In the new 0.51c Civilopedia, can anyone access promotion links in the Special Abilities section of a unit's Civilopedia entry? Because, I can't.

For example, opening the Civilopedia and going to Units >>> Priest of Winter >>> Channeling 1. The Channeling 1 link doesn't work for me, nor does any other promotion link in that area. The Race and Spell links do, though, and I can access the promotions section from the Civilopedia just fine.

This issue is also present in the Traits section. i.e. Traits >>> Aggressive >>> Combat 1.

That's a bug, and one that I just fixed in my version... Simple to do if you can open the file. ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8504026&postcount=796

That's a bug, and one that I just fixed in my version... Simple to do if you can open the file. ;)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8504026&postcount=796

Woohoo! Thanks, Valkrionn. :eekdance:

Not a problem. Merging the new patch into FFPlus, so I've fixed a few small bugs. ;)

I'm also adding a few sorts to the pedia. :goodjob:

Edit: What would be a good name for 'Resource-Conversion Improvement'? Started with Mana Nodes, but then realized there are quite a few other improvements that convert resources in that way. :lol:

Why not "Resource Improvement"

Resource Converters?

converter things?

resource enhancement via alteration, magical or otherwise, to a more tactically beneficial form improvements?

I think the second one might be a bit wordy though.

You could just call 'em converters.

Went with 'Conversion Improvements'. :goodjob:

Does anyone else think that the Cuali settler's icon (after it's been produced) looks like a hooded Sidar of some sort?


Edit: Also, is it intended for Lizardman slaves in Jungle to have a work rate of about 150? As the Cuali, one of my Mazatl slaves in Jungle has a work rate of 172 (Natural Habitat and Skilled I) while one of my Lizardman Labourers has a workrate of 165 (Natural Habitat, Skilled I & II)

Edit2: Okay, the settler icon is definitely wrong. It looks like Emperor Palpatine, in a way - a gray-skinned man wearing a big, black hood.

Edit3: Last edit, I swear. Mazatl (Lizardman) slaves cannot build trails. As the Cuali, this is a pain in the neck. Bug, oversight or intended? Nevermind, I forgot that Roads automatically convert to trails in Cuali/Mazatl territory.

Does anyone else think that the Cuali settler's icon (after it's been produced) looks like a hooded Sidar of some sort?


Edit: Also, is it intended for Lizardman slaves in Jungle to have a work rate of about 150? As the Cuali, one of my Mazatl slaves in Jungle has a work rate of 172 (Natural Habitat and Skilled I) while one of my Lizardman Labourers has a workrate of 165 (Natural Habitat, Skilled I & II)

Edit2: Okay, the settler icon is definitely wrong. It looks like Emperor Palpatine, in a way - a gray-skinned man wearing a big, black hood.

Don't know about the settler, but the Cualli workrate is indeed intended. Their own labourers are essentially slaves... They aren't going to work hard, but they WILL run rather than stand and fight. ;)



Added "Natural Habitat" promotion. Autoaquired/Mustmaintain by lizardmen in jungles. Gives:

+5% Heal rate
+1 first strike
+10% withdrawal chance
+55 workrate
Immune to Obscured Line of Sight

Reduced Workrate of Lizardman Labourer by 40, to partially offset Natural Habitat. Makes them more dependant on their home terrain