First of all, here is something that should be playing in the background while discussing the mod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYa0jDIO0hc&feature=related

And these of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwyGnuLfxBo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO6W8HHfb7I&feature=related

There's been some posts about the back story for the mod. As I understand it, there was an apocalyptic event so the factions on the planet are in a primitive state.

This is fine as the mod is based on the Civ game which has a fun empire building basis. But I think some effort should be put into the background to make it "believeable" and fit into the Dune mythos. For me, the atmosphere and story of the books are fantastic and really something I would look for in a mod based on them.

The idea of an apocalyptic event is good in that it supports the game mechanics of researching tech and growing an empire. So how could this idea of fit into the Dune universe?

Well, as noted already, Frank Herbert's universe stretches through thousands of years. I propose that the mod is set before the events of the Dune book. Shall we say five hundred years? The Kwisatz Haderach is yet to happen, but all the main players which are in the mod are well established: House Harkonnen, House Atreides, the Bene Gesserit, etc.

If there have been plans by Kledath or others to have super units based on the Kwisatz Haderach or other content from Dune's timeline, these ideas could easily be adapted to 500 years earlier, I think.

The Bene Gesserit could be experimenting with an early attempt at their genetically bred super being. There could be prescience developed by hero figures in the noble houses.

There is one major impact of setting this mod 500 years before Dune in that you can't use the characters from the book. With a bit of patience, you could find alternate art and pictures for alternate leaders from this timeline in the past. Making up good names is very easy.

You could even still use graphic content from the movies and books. You could even use the pictures of the actors from Dune movie or TV series and give them alternate names. These are the ancestors of the protaganists in Dune!

So the main part of this proposal is to flesh out the Apocalyptic event which justifies the mod. I believe it should cause an interruption of normal space travel. This makes the factions on the planet very isolated. And helps to explain why so many technologies are missing.

Here is one idea: the Tleilaxu have unleashed a genetically engineered plague into human space. They only created it to use on a rival in a factional war but it has spread wildly. That rival was House Ordos. This is a nice tie in to having that faction present on planet in this mod.

House Ordos was from a computer game, but I like it and agree with including it. There must be many noble Houses in the Landsraad, House Harkonnen and House Atreides are but two of them.

The plague is beyond their control now and is devastating the universe. It has had an unfortunate side effect where it is especially lethal to Guild Navigators with their altered genetics. The Guild is desperately searching for a cure and has curtailed much space travel to protect their remaining navigators. The known universe is in utter chaos: worlds are starving and isolated with the reduction in space travel, there are riots and rebellions everywhere. The authority and position of all the ancient powers of the Imperium are under threat and they are deperately trying to deal with the situation.

The Guild would naturally seal their Navigators away in protected and safe environments, but they are still contracting this deadly and mysterious disease. Advanced stage Navigators have divined that the plagus is being actively spread by a faction of rogue Face Dancers, trying to destablise the status quo so they can advance their own agenda. They are proving extremely hard to track down, even by Bene Gesserit Truth Sayers.

Why is that? Well, let's exercise some creative freedom here. The rogue Face Dancers are being helped by some ex-Bene Gesserit renegades who have taught them how to shield their minds from Truthsayers.

Now back to Arrakis. The Padishah Emperor had already assigned CHOAM company directorships to several great Houses and charged them to mine spice on Arrakis. He is making them compete with each other to win the right for sole spice mining privileges, as was happening during the time period of Dune.

These Houses were all present when the plague took hold and are now mostly stranded on Arrakis. There are still Guild Liners coming to the planet as it is the place where the precious Spice is produced, but other offworld contact is limited.

The Fremen have always been here. The Bene Gesserit have a formal outpost on planet. The Emperor despatched the current Count Fenring, his most loyal and faithful servant, to oversee the joint operations of the noble Houses and keep an eye on them and ensure spice production was maintained.

I really like the idea of an offworld presence in this mod, a remote contact with the homeworlds of the factions. The ideas about the Apocalypse I'm proposing easily justify starting with no off world contact but regaining it by researching techs in the tech tree.

This idea of offworld contact should allow a player to buy the transport of advanced units from their homeworld, and should also allow population to come and migrate. Was this Koma's idea? Sorry, I am pressed for time so can't really trawl through all the posts again.

Payment should be made to the Guild faction. It should be quite expensive to ship units as they should be end game units that are powerful. Money which should come from the spice economy would take on even more meaning and value. And that's as it should be in a mod based on Frank Herbert's Dune universe.

The Guild could play out as follows under this proposal. They start with perhaps less on map presence than other players and lack some benefits in terms of their starting faction traits.

I also reckon that all faction should have unique powers or strengths in the mod. These would granted via traits, unique promotions, and unique unit types.

The Guild would perhaps miss some useful strengths other factions get, which help those survive and thrive on Dune. In return, they get:
- paid for off world shipments;
- ability to bring in low tech units in the early game from offworld; these are from other struggling Guild outposts in this local sector of space;
- because of shortages and the plague, they too have to mine spice onplanet though they normally wouldn't do that, normally relying on CHOAM;
- they gain more profit from spice production;
- they have no special military units, or perhaps only mobility based ones, but overall they should be a shade weaker than other factions;
- but they can use spice to hire smugglers and mercenaries, both local and off world;
- perhaps local smugglers can be the early game version of these troops, off world Guild troops could be mid game, and heavy off world mercs could be late game.

There are a lot of ideas in this post. What do you all think? I really do believe having a good back story is essential for this kind of mod. It can be kneaded like bread dough into the game play of the mod as it develops under the Civ engine. You are doing an amazing job of really customising Civ into something suitable to represent Dune! I love seeing the previews of the sandstorms, worms, and the Fedaykin on the forum.

I haven't played this mod yet as it seems in such constant flux, but I think I will download it tonight and make room on my HDDs to reinstall Civ4.

I am very heavily involved in writing a mod for another game so I have very little free time. But I love Dune, I love Civ, and I love mods! So I'm more than happy to contrbute a little bit. I could fairly easily write some background material, perhaps even write some civilopedia entries if you guys need that done.

I have some other ideas to contribute to the conversations and I'll post those soon.

Cheers,
Sword

I just realised that setting the mod 500 years in the past won't work because of content based on Liet like those reservoirs and the terraforming concept. These are really nice, interesting, and flavourful ideas.

Instead, this would have to be set in the future to Dune then. I am rusty on the later novels. Could we postulate the same plague causing upheavel in the reign of Leto II then? Would 500 years in the future be appropriate?

Cheers,
Sword

I am very heavily involved in writing a mod for another game so I have very little free time. But I love Dune, I love Civ, and I love mods! So I'm more than happy to contrbute a little bit. I could fairly easily write some background material, perhaps even write some civilopedia entries if you guys need that done.

Great ideas! We definitely need to find a way to explain why the civs start with low technology. I kind of like seeing the leaderheads and names I recognize from the books/movies, but maybe we could just overlook this anachronism somehow.

We definitely need civilopedia text; if you have a chance to write some, that would be fantastic. The civ and leaderhead text is done except for Ghanima and Liet. We could really use tech quotes and tech pedia entries. The best way to do this would be to edit assets/xml/text/DuneWarsText.txt, *not* the xml file, and PM it to me. This saves you the work of copying the text into the different languages; I have a script which converts the txt into xml by cloning all the text. The second best way is to just make a text file, and clearly identify which quote and pedia text goes to which tech. Then I will paste it into the txt file.

We could also use text for buildings and units, but I think we should try to fill in the quotes and tech pedias first.

OK. I'm at home from work tomorrow so I'll at least do some. Then I have to also work on my own mod. I'm glad to contribute to such a wonderful project!

Cheers,
Sword

indeed great ideas.

ahh Sydney.... been there a long time ago.......wish i was there again !

[QUOTE=SwordOfJustice;8284993]Instead, this would have to be set in the future to Dune then. I am rusty on the later novels. Could we postulate the same plague causing upheavel in the reign of Leto II then? Would 500 years in the future be appropriate?/QUOTE]...what about both? We could - backstory-wise - take advantage of the fact that Civ AND Dune both encompass millennia. If you change the calender to truly span centuries, it would make more sense - terraforming isn't something that will come from the very start, if the flavour texts and calender are done the right way, this could come around 500 years after the start - approximately.

Leader-wise... I'd also say a bit of handwave might work (just like you can have Stalin at 4000 B.C.) - otherwise you'd need changing leaders or a strange explanation with a lot of gholas.

On the other hand, I'm not that deep into Dune-lore... so I'm happy to see cool stuff coming!

Cheers, LT.

I'm pretty agnostic about having a fixed coherent backstory. I think as long as the mod is fun to play and captures Dune flavor, people won't care that it doesn't have a great fixed backstory that explains why 10+ factions are all starting on Dune and having to build up their technology from nothing.

I honestly don't think its possible to come up with a believable story to explain this that isn't filled with half a dozen or more crucial plotholes. (If the rest of the galaxy is still out there, why is there no tech here? And if it isn't, why is there still a Spacer's Guild? And why do people care about spice? Why is the Emperor competing on the same footing as some random Lansraad Houses? etc.)

And why do people care about spice? The big thing about spice is that it allows space-folding and FTL travel. The "worlds out there" mean zilch without spice - they're just sparkling spots in the sky.

I'd love to see the spacing guild as game element instead of a full-fledged Civ (or making the spacing guild just a "rogue guild faction". Somebody tried his hand at an Europe screen-like implementation - if this goes somewhere, it would be extremely cool. Then you could probably order techs, units etc. from the spacing guild with spice - meaning they transport stuff from your homeworld to you.

Would also explain why the Emperor is suddenly on foot with the rest - your empire means nothing if you can't FTL travel. And the guild is not all powerful, because they need the spice to function and to live. If they'd just bombard the hell out of the people on ground... they would lose the spice harvesting people. So they keep neutral, hoping to get as much spice as possible.

Hmmm... could even make for some alternative victory conditions, like creating a no-ship that can FTL travel without the guild - meaning instant access to all your assets and independence from the guild - or in other words: Victory.

Cheers, LT.

The big thing about spice is that it allows space-folding and FTL travel. The "worlds out there" mean zilch without spice - they're just sparkling spots in the sky.

Yes, I know this, my point was; if there is no contact with the rest of the galaxy because of some kind of apocalpyse, then spice isn't really very valuable and Dune doesn't matter.

If there IS normal contact with the rest of the galaxy, then it doesn't really make sense for factions on Dune to be starting with no technology.

My point is just that there are inherent contradictions in any backstory, so why stress over the details?

well i agree with having some story that can set as a background - but, although, i love dune,

we must remember that its still civ4,

so adaptation must be made,
i think it much more fun to be able to play corino, spacing guild or ix,
most player i think wont be concentrating their attention on game loyalty to the exact story,

my goal is to give a unique mod, with as much element of dune and all of its atmosphere,
a new way to play civ4 in a dunish way :)

im all for making as much difference from vanila game:
civs with total unique abilities, units and more aspects of dune world.

If there IS normal contact with the rest of the galaxy, then it doesn't really make sense for factions on Dune to be starting with no technology.Actually... why? I mean communication isn't instantaneous - and technology doesn't exist in a vacuum - what good is a physicist knowing how to build a Holtzman generator if he doesn't have the infrastructure? And you could say that having communication with the spacing guild is possible (because they are in range with their FTL ship), whereas the rest of the galaxy is out of range.

So we could abstract the tech progression as a mixture of a bit of rediscovery (especially the early stage) plus trickling in of light-speed communication and rebuilt infrastructure.

Cheers, LT.

Because massive Heighliners could show up with a bunch of stuff from elsewhere in a few days or weeks.

It wouldn't take the years that the mod represents; founding new settlements, growing populations, building factories.

And in the meantime, if there is no trade with the rest of the galaxy, then what is the point of Spice? If you can't export it, it doesn't really have any value.

I love that we are discussing the backstory and a lot of interesting stuff can come out of that. It's great to have new ideas from all quarters. I do, however, agree with Ahriman's points:

I think as long as the mod is fun to play and captures Dune flavor, people won't care that it doesn't have a great fixed backstory that explains why 10+ factions are all starting on Dune and having to build up their technology from nothing.

I honestly don't think its possible to come up with a believable story to explain this that isn't filled with half a dozen or more crucial plotholes.

The reason why I suggested the apocalypse idea, was just because I think that Homeworld screens could be a really cool and distinctive feature of the mod. I like the idea that rather than starting from the beginning you are trying to reconnect with your homeworld, and regain and exceed the status you had before. If you've seen the new city screen Koma produced (with a bit of art from myself) you should be convinced that we can make good looking Homeworld screens. Then the question is, can we make the gameplay to match that?

As I've said before, there is an argument that the Spacing Guild being a playable civ, when it could be a more abstract gameplay entity that you have dealings with, actually limits the mod. This may be a case of less is more. Anyway, that's off-topic to this thread...

My vague backstory would be that this is a parallel Dune universe. It follows exactly the same course as the book, except at the point when the Harkonnens attack Arrakis or during the Battle of Arrakeen perhaps *something* wipes most people out. Full of plot holes, but that's the vague notion I have at the moment.

It wouldn't take the years that the mod represents; founding new settlements, growing populations, building factories.True - but that's the hand-wavy bit. Mind you, I'm just throwing out ideas and ramblings - hoping that some of it may be useful - plus your arguments against it are good and useful, because it at least shows where where we have to fudge around with the back story. :)

Cheers, LT.

Hey!

I'm writing this from my new netbook :crazyeye: but it's definitely the last time I can be online for 2 weeks.

Just a quick idea for a background story:

I'm sure you all remember the scene where Paul blackmails the space guild to put water of life in the desert.
What if he made it true?
All sandworms are destroyed.
Space guild is paralyzed.
Universe drifts into chaos and isolation.

But... some sand trouters?/worms have survived.
xx years later sandworms have repopulated to a significant number and the first new spice starts to pop up.
This is the moment where our game starts...

It's a quick story that people read the first book or watched the movie will understand. I am sure it has loop holes too, but as Lord Tirian wrote, just throwing out ideas...

@Keldath:

Sorry, I did'nt had time left to finish 3 city radius. Maybe in 2 weeks (if you haven't it done by that time).

Bye :)

Hey!

I'm writing this from my new netbook :crazyeye: but it's definitely the last time I can be online for 2 weeks.

Just a quick idea for a background story:

I'm sure you all remember the scene where Paul blackmails the space guild to put water of life in the desert.
What if he made it true?
All sandworms are destroyed.
Space guild is paralyzed.
Universe drifts into chaos and isolation.

But... some sand trouters?/worms have survived.
xx years later sandworms have repopulated to a significant number and the first new spice starts to pop up.
This is the moment where our game starts...

It's a quick story that people read the first book or watched the movie will understand. I am sure it has loop holes too, but as Lord Tirian wrote, just throwing out ideas...

@Keldath:

Sorry, I did'nt had time left to finish 3 city radius. Maybe in 2 weeks (if you haven't it done by that time).

Bye :)


Ahriman, I don't think you read my post. I did not suggest there is no space travel, but it is severely curtailed. The known universe is in chaos; even most of the population on Arrakis has been wiped out.

Having played the mod now, you all have done so much work and come so far. I'll post elsewhere my impressions and player feedback.

I see all the factions are implemented with pictures and background text. It's quite a departure to now try and set the mod in a defined point of history with a back story using made up characters. I agree with David, it is kind of cool to see Stilgar and other favourite Dune characters in the mod.

For me personally though, the lack of story does detract from the gaming experience. The mod has leaders from very parts of the time line, with Liet-Kynes, Paul and Ghanima all existing as leaders; indeed they're all rivals. It just doesn't fit the story of Dune.

Eh, it's cool if that's how you guys want to do it. I still believe you could come up with a halfway decent alternative, closing most plot loopholes. Koma's idea is very promising and better than the one I proposed, I reckon. You could set it further into the future and have the worms nearly wiped out.

Though that still wouldn't answer why you see leaders that should be dead appearing in the mod.... ;)

I'm a real Dune fan and I like games that take me into a rich, imaginary world. The more consistent it is, the better I like it. I'm not a Civ number cruncher. There's no right way to enjoy games of course, it's just different tastes.


Anyway, no problemo. I'll do some tech text for you.

David, I opened that file you mention I should work from and it contains the text for the game hints which display while the mod loads. Are you sure you want me to put my civilopedia text in there?

Also, is it worth starting on civilopedia text when the techs are still heavily under review. I don't really want to waste my limited time writing stuff for a tech that gets changed or culled.


Cheers,
Sword

Yes, the tech tree is likely to evolve and change quite a lot more. Probably most of the techs will continue to exist in some shape or form so text you write can always be recycled. Having some appropriate quotes would be a nice touch.

From my point of view, I'd say that getting playtest feedback is the most important thing right now - that is will help to steer the evolution of the mod. This includes anything you think is nonsensical from a flavour point of view, such as 'why does this tech lead provide that unit?' or 'why does this tech depend on that tech?'. If you point out things you think are wrong, and propose decent alternatives there is a good chance that we will make the change.

Though that still wouldn't answer why you see leaders that should be dead appearing in the mod....

They are all Gholas of their former selves... ;)

David, I opened that file you mention I should work from and it contains the text for the game hints which display while the mod loads. Are you sure you want me to put my civilopedia text in there?

Sorry, I guess you haven't worked with civilopedia text before. All of the units, buildings, techs, civilizations, leaderheads, and bonuses are defined in there, it is quite a long file. Please search for a line like "<!-- Technologies" or "TECH_" to find the technology section. Here is one example:
<TEXT>
<Tag>TXT_KEY_TECH_ZENSUNNI_TEACHINGS_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>
Stub pedia for Zensunni Teachings
</English>
</TEXT>

So you would replace the "Stub pedia for Zensunni Teachings" with your new text.


Also, is it worth starting on civilopedia text when the techs are still heavily under review. I don't really want to waste my limited time writing stuff for a tech that gets changed or culled.

I think the techs may get moved around and buildings or units changed inside, but I think the techs are more solid than the buildings or units at this point. The key thing will be to find Dune quotes for a lot of them, if possible.

OK, I'm starting now. I made good progress on my other mod tonight.

David, the file DuneWarsText.txt only contains quotes like this:
* As soon as you build your first spice harvester improvement, found your spice corporation. This will give you a lot of commerce income for each improvement you control.

DuneWarsText.xml appears to contain stubs but you don't want me to use that because of the other languages, yeah?

While waiting for the answer I'll make a new text file and start work.



Cheers,
Sword

hi all,
good discussion :)

the techs will probably grow and move,
most of the tree is based on the vanilla structure,

form experience in modding, the techs will change a lot during our mods versions.

in order to get it right and stable - we need a lot of players feedback.

:)

Hopefully you can recycle tech quotes.

Here's the first one I've done, as an example. I'll get a batch ready and PM David.


<Tag>TXT_KEY_TECH_ZENSUNNI_TEACHINGS_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>
" Home can be anywhere, for it is part of one's self"
- Zensunni saying

In ages long past, the Zensunni were followers of the teachings of Maometh, the "Third Muhammed". But we broke away to form a new sect, seeking a new path to enlightenment. Yes, we sought to return to the ways of our fathers. We again remembered the truth of Buddallah, the One, whose word has always been rendered to us by the prophets. Ali Ben Ohashi was our first leader; his light was incandescant amongst the stars.

We wandered throughout the galaxy from our first home on Poritrin, finding many new homes but never peace. For peace lies within the self. Salusa Secundis, Bela Tegeuse, Harmonthep, Arrakis, all these worlds were part of our journeys. May Buddallah guide you in yours.
</English>

- Sword

David, the file DuneWarsText.txt only contains quotes like this:
* As soon as you build your first spice harvester improvement, found your spice corporation. This will give you a lot of commerce income for each improvement you control.

My mistake. Which patch do you have? In the 1.3 release there was a problem with this file, as you have discovered. If you have one of the recent patches such as 1.3.6 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8276339&postcount=129) then you will see the whole file.

DuneWarsText.xml appears to contain stubs but you don't want me to use that because of the other languages, yeah?

That is right; you enter data for one language in DWT.txt, and my script will copy that into all the other languages for DWT.xml. (Sorry, I haven't completed the program which will automatically translate it into the languages. :-)

<Tag>TXT_KEY_TECH_ZENSUNNI_TEACHINGS_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>
" Home can be anywhere, for it is part of one's self"
- Zensunni saying

In ages long past, the Zensunni were followers of the teachings of Maometh, the "Third Muhammed".

Please note there is a separate entry for TECH_whatever_QUOTE. Please put the quote into the quote section, and the details into the TECH_whatever_PEDIA section.

Please note there is a separate entry for TECH_whatever_QUOTE. Please put the quote into the quote section, and the details into the TECH_whatever_PEDIA section.

Got it. I've sent you the first few via PM.

Cheers,
Sword

I personaly don't see an issue with the default backstory we already have. The Emperor got pissed at the Harkonens for not delivering enough spice, which in turn made the Spacing Guild mad at him, so he opens up Dune to the whole Landsraad to see if they could get more spice than the Harkonnens.

Welcome back! (Or, thanks for posting again!)

We need to explain why the civs have low tech at the beginning of the game. You don't get carryalls, for example, until 2/3 of the way through the tech tree.

I'll probably be around but as I'm behind on my mod I can't help with much.

low start tech> Have any of you read the anthology 'Road to Dune'. Icluded is a short story in an alternate Dune universe that was to be the initial dune. Basicly the emperor decided to mediate a disagreement between house linkham (Atreides) and Hoskanner (Harkonnen). Basicly the emperor had linkham start out on a low initial level to see if they could get more spice in one year than the Hoskanners could starting from a similar level a few years previously.

...okay, it's late, but just some ideas running out of my head:

Checked the leaders:
They are all from the same timeline, excluding the young Atreides and Corrino and the old Atreides/Liet.

So a thematicly a story-change should have happened, during the Harkonnen-invasion.

My suggestion: As you know, Duncan Idaho provoked a "small" lasegun-shield-explosion. Let's assume, such an explosion happened with the big shield in Arrakeen! Somehow, the Atreides (or even a Tleilaxu spy - who knows, what they are about, maybe it was an Ixian... somehow they have to appear)... whoever, someone has "quick-repaired" the shield. The next moment a Harkonnen ship shot a laser-beam on this shield. KABOOM. Carthag was counter-attacked by a huge army of Fremen wanting revenge for the death of their large population in Arrakeen, they were forced back with biologal weapons. No one can live there for years.

Results:
Arrakeens and Carthags population doesn't exist anymore.
The Fremen on this side of the planet are largely reduced.
Harvesters and tech-material from offplanet are no longer present.

So far... but why doesn't the guild appear and help out/send men/tech/smugglers?
There are different possilble answers to this question:
1.) such a large lasegun-shield-explosion blows much sand in the atmosphere letting each landing ship feel like a thopter in storm. (alternatively: the navigators sight is "reduced" because of high ozon-fluctuation in the upper atmosphere...). That's why they come back, as soon as the dust is away (let's say, when offworld trade is invented:D)

2.) Because of the explosion the planet has been swept a bit out of its track that's why the two moons have also changed their track and crushed. Similair to the "sand in the atmosphere"-theme, no guild ship can cross this "asteroid belt". :rolleyes:

3.) Even worse: The explosion created a wormhole. The planet disappears. The guild is searching the whole galaxy but will first find it, when someone "invents" Offw.Tr.

4.) The explosion attracted all grown-up worms. They came together, got wild and died. That's why only very few spice is found anymore on dune. Only the little "bringer" survived the whole crap). Similar story like komas, but with eradicated Arrakeen and Carthag. btw. the leaders are of course still alive, because spice extends life ;)

4a.) Same worm-story, but guild also has another planet where spice "grows" (they tried to steal the worms in the books, too, now they managed it). They don't tell anybody, that's why they sometimes come along getting some spice from "here". Of course their planet is not suited for worms, their worms die some day and they have to come back to dune and also fly nasty "homeworld-trips" to bring some weird wine ;)

So far... many more new ideas are needed... or upgrades of existing ideas ;)

in that case: don't use your brain for killing, but thinking :D

Greetz, Hived!

While it is fun to think up possible backstories, I wonder whether it is better to keep the nature of the apocalypse mysterious and let people decide for themselves what happened.

As soon as we have an official backstory for the apocalypse then people will start to pick holes. My view is that it is suitable to have some mystery in a Dune mod, but then I tend to like films that don't fully explain themselves and leave stuff open to interpretation. :)

While it is fun to think up possible backstories, I wonder whether it is better to keep the nature of the apocalypse mysterious and let people decide for themselves what happened.

As soon as we have an official backstory for the apocalypse then people will start to pick holes. My view is that it is suitable to have some mystery in a Dune mod, but then I tend to like films that don't fully explain themselves and leave stuff open to interpretation. :)
Partly I agree... I also prefer "open ends" or left mysteries. The David Lynch Film is very good in this, showing up enough, to tease you, but leaving (unintended?) several holes open, you'd love to fill with sense. The repetition of some of these elements just makes you even more suspicious on what it is about (think of the "mouse shadow in second moon"... free translated from german :rolleyes:)...
anyway new players (like me one week ago) might be confused, seeing the well known characters, but being left alone with a settler and two soldiers, not knowing why spice is not the worthiest in the beginning ;)

That's why "some kind" of story should be brought to them initially!
It is okay, to leave that story open... maybe it's for some people enough to say, that just "something" happened... but I suppose, the majority of players will not be satisfied with only "something".
To leave the exact happening open is one thing, but to say: be creative yourself, find a story that fits with all our implementations another.

IMO it is more useful, to discuss several options. Soon you'll see then, which ideas are more "loop-holey" and can decide, which story fits best.
Both, finding loopholes as closing them works IMO better, when discussing them together. :)

Greetz, Hived.

I included a few expansions on an interpretation of the backstory in the succession thread.

I included a few expansions on an interpretation of the backstory in the succession thread.

I liked the name the Great Catastrophe.