Started this thread because, for the first time in my Civving career, I saw one Civ completely eliminate another. The Aggressive AI option was turned on (so that's probably why), and Willem van Orange successfully axe-rushed Saladin in order to get out of the end of the peninsula he was on. Willem later used a 4-AI dogpile on Sury (who was an empire away), capturing a city (this city went Khmer - Dutch - Khmer - Ethiopian in 30 turns) before 1000 BC.

In the same game, I was then dogpiled by Joao II (whose demand I had refused) and Louis (who was bribed) - however, Joao had not paid attention to my military buildup to avoid such a scenario (I captured Lisbon -> Marseilles -> Lyons, and am planning to sue for peace).

How often do you guys see AIs totally eliminating other AIs?

It's rare, but it happens. But it's always just a random thing. I'd love to see warmonger-AIs like Shaka or Monty intentionally go on a killing spree.

Funniest kill I ever witnessed was when I and other AIs reduced a civ (I think Tokugawa) to one city. Then there was peace, but some time later that last city was culture-flipped. The only time I saw a civ destroyed by culture :lol:

Not often, but I have seen it happen on rare occasion. Usually it happens when a high build unit prob AI gets hemmed in/starts close to a low build unit prob AI. Also, it helps when the AIs don't have feudalism yet as post-feudalism they usually capitulate. i.e., the AI doesn't think "Why would I want a crappy, useless vassal that will just cost me a diplo hit with the remaining civs?"

I rarely see complete elimination ever since vassals were added to the game.

^^ What Hermit said. Because AI techs feudalism pretty early and generally won't start planning an attack until at least somewhat boxed in, they usually vassal defeated opponents rather than wipe them out.

I did see something funny in a recent game that is related--Asoka had a lot of land, peacefully vassalized a decently-sized Cyrus and beat up Alex with medieval units. He was ~45% of land, then declared on a backwards Shaka, bringing rifles/cannons vs. LBs/hordes of maces. I tried to bribe Asoka into peace, but saw "No thanks, we'd rather win" yikes!

This thread got me to thinking: does that A.I. ever raze cities?

In the many games I've played (all with Aggressive A.I., No Vassals, and Raging Barbarians across every difficulty) I don't think I've ever seen and A.I. simply raze a city it always occupies. This slows them down considerably making it that much harder to completely wipe another A.I. Are there any mods that change this behavior assuming the A.I. doesn't raze?

they do occasionally. And I think that some AIs (like Genghis and Ragnar) are more likely to than others.

On emperor, non aggresive AI i saw ragnar axe rush charlie, take all but one of his cities but charlie escaped to an island. Ragnar, undeterred, built some galleys and took that last city, wiping Charlie off the face of the planet. Once they get Feud though AI's will vassalise eachother ASAP they just prefer it...

How often do you guys see AIs totally eliminating other AIs?

Believe it or not, I've actually kept a record of how many times AI's have been COMPLETELY eliminated by other AI's only (meaning, I don't have much involvement). Here's what my Microsoft Word document has recorded so far in my entire CIV career, including Vanilla Civ.

1 Elimination

-Suryavarman II
-Asoka
-Saladin (Due to Napoleon, who eliminated quite a few civs in Vanilla)
-Shaka
-Frederick
-Tokugawa
-Sitting Bull
-Elizabeth

2 Eliminations

-Hatshepsut
-Gandhi
-Mansa Musa (I think a barbarian uprising was responsible for one, though)

3 Eliminations

-Lincoln (Sury was responsible for all 3)
-Roosevelt (Slightly unfair, because 2 were on the Earth 18 Civ map, and you know how Montezuma is like)

And last but not least, the winner ...

4 Eliminations

-Wang Kon (Shaka responsible for 2 of them, with one being a Shaka-Tokugawa teamer vs. WK)


So from my personal experience, WK is one of the worst AI's. I know he can do well with a great starting position, but from my experiences he is very weak.

And if you're wondering about the lack of several civs being eliminated that are represented on Earth maps which can be unfair, keep in mind that I do much more eliminations than the AI's do. :goodjob:

I love Wang Kon, the background music when you talk to him is the best in the game :P.

I've played Japan on the GEM map about 4 times now, and China has completely destroyed Wang Kon early on every time lol. I think eliminations are more likely with there being more civs on the map.

WK eliminations were not on the GEM map although I did play the GEM map once. I was actually the one who eliminated WK, and I was playing Julius Caesar. Yeah you can imagine how easy the game was.

I watched Monty totally eliminate Sitting Bull once. Happened way before and feudalism, so vassalage wasn't an option. It was scary since I knew I was his next target. Don't even remember who I was playing, but it wasn't pretty.

I've seen the AI completely eliminate the human player on occasion :-)

But then again, we can't vassalize (although I don't understand why not? I mean, we can strive to break free or win by peaceful means, right...?)

I've seen the AI completely eliminate the human player on occasion :-)

But then again, we can't vassalize (although I don't understand why not? I mean, we can strive to break free or win by peaceful means, right...?)

I bolded the reason you can't vassal to the AI.

Easy culture/diplo wins much :rolleyes:?

That's just silly, though.

This is saying the AI is totally incompetent at judging whether to accept capitulation (if we allow a cultural candidate to vassalize to us we have ourselves to blame), so they artificially cripple a feature.

What about this:


I bolded the reason you can't declare war on the AI.

Easy conquest/domination wins much ?

It would make much more sense to make winning back your freedom a prereq for attaining victory, and allowing a capitulated vassal somewhat more means to win freedom.

Anyway, the AI is usually stupid enough to let the human player alone even after the second city went legendary, so the argument doesn't really work that well anyway...

Anyway, the AI is usually stupid enough to let the human player alone even after the second city went legendary, so the argument doesn't really work that well anyway...

That aint true, AI definitely will DoW you if possible when you are close to a Cult vic.

Couple of games I had, when the only victory possible was a cult victory I got dowed with 2 def pacts and a decent power rating.

Well, I've seen obsolete's cultural victory games and no one declares war on him.

Well, I've seen obsolete's cultural victory games and no one declares war on him.

Isnt that more through superior diplomacy then dumb AI?

If you manage to get your opponents to Pleased/friendly. And your enemies in such positions they can't easily DoW you early in the game it is a different story.

Obsolete tends to win in 1000-1500 AD right?

if superior diplomacy means manipulating the AI algorithms such that they let you win the game in an obvious manner (top X culture is globally known) with an obvious remedy (dow), I fail to see the difference between superior diplomacy and dumb AI..

If the AIs dogpiled on a culture whore, that victory condition would be obsolete in both human and AI hands. A human might still be able to do it after effectively securing other VC's too, but the AI would turn into a helpless crippled thing where it wouldn't be able to win because it would keep attacking the leaders. In such an awkward scenario, it would be difficult to get the AI to reason out how to actually come out in front...

If the AIs dogpiled on a culture whore, that victory condition would be obsolete in both human and AI hands. A human might still be able to do it after effectively securing other VC's too, but the AI would turn into a helpless crippled thing where it wouldn't be able to win because it would keep attacking the leaders. In such an awkward scenario, it would be difficult to get the AI to reason out how to actually come out in front...

Cultural victory is such an awkward victory condition in the first place. With diplomacy (although more often than not diplomacy = diplomination), it is the only victory where you really don't have to be one of the strongest civs to take advantage of it. I really don't like the implementation of the culture victory in civIV. CivIII's empire-wide requirement/occ was much more entertaining.