Hi folks!

How can we recover from this Immortal Rush? Persia got carried away and grabbed too much land, too soon. She knows Hunting, Animal Husbandry (from hut) , Agriculture, Pottery, Mining, Bronze Working and Horseback Riding (from hut). Persia has the Buddhist and the Hindu holy cities (no shrines) but that's pretty much all.

It's a Fractal, Standard size map. The speed and difficulty is for you to pick. Oh, you are not Darius, you are Cyrus! Take a look at your land right now (there's a city south of Constantinople):

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww309/rafawalt/immortal.jpg

I hope we can get some insights on how to put an economy back on its feet from this. MadScientist, you may want to show the players' advice to Obama.:D


AFAIK, WB Saves open in 3.17 and 3.19

Why do I see a pop 1 capitol :(?

The rush isn't over yet anyways. Deficit out writing, turn the slider down, build some cottages, and keep taking cities.

The goal is probably like 12 cities by 1 AD with land like this and the UU.

you are neither in strike nor working all gold mines... So go on. probbaly i would deficit research fishing and mysticism first. At very least you need to get Mansa's gold mines.:lol:

I am more interested why it is listed for me as 4000BC on load. Save conversion problems?

1500 BC is a little early to worry about recovery isn't it? Will you ever have to stop fighting? That certainly brings in the gold. Figure out first what is going to stop your advance so you can plan ahead when the wars stop. Don't forget to do some pillaging at the end as well. If you can't take the next AI completely grab some gold from his cottages and slow his growth.

With all that gold lying around I don't think you have to worry about recovery at all really. Or trade routes and keeping peace with anyone. I'd be worrying about what military techs are you going to be able to get to keep the fight going.

EDIT - or am I missing something I'll see when playing it out?

It almost seems like you created a map in world builder and began the game at 4000bc? Looking at the techs it seems most of the basics techs have not been done. Fishing masonry, writing etc. Fishing is a huge tech given two sea resources.

Anyway you have 2-3 gold resources unworked and 287 gold in reserve. Mansa capital has 2 gold resources and lots of flood plains why we are stopping the attack anyway??? His capital will improve the finances. Numbers will beat skirmishers on hills.

There are Soo many resources left unworked!! I personally would of razed a couple of Justins cities. Too close together!!

Okay selecting emperor option makes the financial side worse than your screen shot.




Okay my first step was to tech fishing. The capital was barely growing. I built 4-6 immortals as i had limited other builds available. Used a few defenders leaving a few cities unguarded. managed to take mansa's capital but losses were huge. I did capture 2 workers.

I left 1 city. Eventually Sury DOW Mansa. He must have lost 20 units in his 2 attacks on Mansa capital.

I took a stack of 12 immortals and attacked sitting bull. I took one city but his capital looks an easy target.

Overall i think with the immortals and gold resources this map should be easily winnable. I was up to about 30 science when i left it. Libraries were slowly being built.

Why do I see a pop 1 capitol :(?

Whipped a settler to found Susa and work the gold.

The rush isn't over yet anyways. Deficit out writing, turn the slider down, build some cottages, and keep taking cities.

The slider's already at zero at my save.


I am more interested why it is listed for me as 4000BC on load. Save conversion problems?

I was playing on Marathon so it was already on the turn 198. When I created the WB Save I set the gameturn to 0 because it would be too many turns for a normal speed game. This is the first time I make a WB Save of a game later than 4000BC so I guess I made it wrong.

you are neither in strike nor working all gold mines... So go on. probbaly i would deficit research fishing and mysticism first. At very least you need to get Mansa's gold mines.:lol:

I chickened out when I saw the Skirmishers on the hill.



With all that gold lying around I don't think you have to worry about recovery at all really. Or trade routes and keeping peace with anyone. I'd be worrying about what military techs are you going to be able to get to keep the fight going.

Teching Archery allows us to build Horse Archers.

It almost seems like you created a map in world builder and began the game at 4000bc? Looking at the techs it seems most of the basics techs have not been done. Fishing masonry, writing etc. Fishing is a huge tech given two sea resources.
This is a random map that I began playing. I saved it on WB because of the 3.19/3.17 thing and because of the game speed. I was playing on Marathon and some people really dislike it.



There are Soo many resources left unworked!! I personally would of razed a couple of Justins cities. Too close together!!

I know! I started this game with the sole intention of doing an Immortal rush because I'd never done it before so my only concern was to build a city near the horses and go fighting. I didn't really improve anything. That said, it's also true that my early game sucks. :)

Okay selecting emperor option makes the financial side worse than your screen shot.
It shouldn't because I'm also playing on Emperor.

I added the initial save in case someone wants to take it from the start.

Edit: @Gumbolt:
Nice going there! :goodjob: What are your plans for this map? Do you intend to completely conquer Sitting Bull too? When would you stop attacking?

I stopped playing. I would either rebuild more immortal or go for kill on his cap. Sb does not like mounted units. I wasnt fond of the starting city placements. The horse city you placed seemed the only choice.

I might play it on a bit. I have soo many games to finish :(

Back to the board and back to civ after a monthlong work-induced hiatus. Hopefully, work is finally letting me get back to normal, which means more civ.

This seemed like a fun way to get back in, so I gave this a shot. Didn't want to tax myself too much, so didn't go immortal, went emperor epic instead to 2850 BC.


Wow, lots of size 1 cities, almost all have 1 immortal...but wait, size 1 cities don't need guards, and guards cost money. They can be put to much better use:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

And Mansa quickly meets his doom.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Why does Mansa's capital always have gold and flood plains? Obviously a great city, so I kept it. Why not add to the fun. I started by teching writing, as I figured libraries were key to getting out of the mess. Then fishing, and mysticism as I wanted to pop borders and figured I needed to keep Sury from expanding into the land created by Mansa's doom.

Opened borders hoping for religion to spread, which it did. I chose hindu as SB seemed to be actively spreading it to my cities. Gifted SB gold and traded him corn for wine to help happiness and relations with SB. Built granaries, libraries, monuments and units - mainly immortals, and that's about it.

Did a bunch of tile juggling to maximize commerce, used my workers to chop for hammers and connect cities, and decided to beeline COL the backdoor religious way. And Sury did expand into the open land. Not a good idea to leave 2 archers protecting each city though...

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

I kept both cities - COL is within reach. Sury had copper, and a couple of spears in his southernmost cities when I was exploring his land, but for some reason, the idiot left 2 archers only in each of the cities nearest me. I lost 2 immortals taking each city, so 4 immortals for 2 settlers is not a bad trade. Most importantly, the gold allows me to keep deficit researching toward COL. And the second city has somewhat mature cottages - really nice to get that one.

I cut off there as I have to head out, but clearly in good shape. Just have to get to COL, then can shut research off for 15-20 turns while chopping/whipping/building courthouses, then move toward victory. Sury will obviously be dead at some point relatively soon, as he's limited to 5 cities against my 10 and counting. Here's the world and my cities at this point:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Next up will be to get to COL while seeing if I can take one more Sury city before peace. Ideally would like to take peace after alphabet, but that's probably a long way off.

@michmbk:

How long do you think it will take you to Code of Laws? It's more than 11 turns judging by your income. After that you'll go to Alpha?

Back to the board and back to civ after a monthlong work-induced hiatus. Hopefully, work is finally letting me get back to normal, which means more civ.

This seemed like a fun way to get back in, so I gave this a shot. Didn't want to tax myself too much, so didn't go immortal, went emperor epic instead to 2850 BC.


Wow, lots of size 1 cities, almost all have 1 immortal...but wait, size 1 cities don't need guards, and guards cost money. They can be put to much better use:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

And Mansa quickly meets his doom.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Why does Mansa's capital always have gold and flood plains? Obviously a great city, so I kept it. Why not add to the fun. I started by teching writing, as I figured libraries were key to getting out of the mess. Then fishing, and mysticism as I wanted to pop borders and figured I needed to keep Sury from expanding into the land created by Mansa's doom.

Opened borders hoping for religion to spread, which it did. I chose hindu as SB seemed to be actively spreading it to my cities. Gifted SB gold and traded him corn for wine to help happiness and relations with SB. Built granaries, libraries, monuments and units - mainly immortals, and that's about it.

Did a bunch of tile juggling to maximize commerce, used my workers to chop for hammers and connect cities, and decided to beeline COL the backdoor religious way. And Sury did expand into the open land. Not a good idea to leave 2 archers protecting each city though...

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

I kept both cities - COL is within reach. Sury had copper, and a couple of spears in his southernmost cities when I was exploring his land, but for some reason, the idiot left 2 archers only in each of the cities nearest me. I lost 2 immortals taking each city, so 4 immortals for 2 settlers is not a bad trade. Most importantly, the gold allows me to keep deficit researching toward COL. And the second city has somewhat mature cottages - really nice to get that one.

I cut off there as I have to head out, but clearly in good shape. Just have to get to COL, then can shut research off for 15-20 turns while chopping/whipping/building courthouses, then move toward victory. Sury will obviously be dead at some point relatively soon, as he's limited to 5 cities against my 10 and counting. Here's the world and my cities at this point:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg

Next up will be to get to COL while seeing if I can take one more Sury city before peace. Ideally would like to take peace after alphabet, but that's probably a long way off.



Nice job. I was happy to let Sury waste his stack on the final Mansa city. I think out of SB and Sury prolly best to rid the world of Sury.

@michmbk:

How long do you think it will take you to Code of Laws? It's more than 11 turns judging by your income. After that you'll go to Alpha?


All depends on whether or not I can take another Sury city. If I get one more of his cities, then it's probably 11 turns, otherwise, maybe 15-20. Right now I'm not maximizing commerce or scientists, will probably do that long enough to get to COL.

This game does require a bit more micro than I usually do, which is probably good for me, reminds me how much better my game can be when I do micro.

And to Gumbolt, I agree, getting rid of Sury makes more sense. SB is useless late game, and Sury can be a real devil with his traits if he gets too much land. Not to mention my empire was wrapped around his - not good to do that against a CRE civ.

Continuing on - emperor epic to 1 turn from lib. Feels funny to be 1 turn from lib in the BCs, but that's obviously a product of the weird advance start here.


First things first, reshuffle tiles:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg

From -14 gpt in my above post to -2 simply by switching to a couple gold mines. Now it’s 12 turns at most to COL. Don’t have enough horses to take another of Sury’s cities, so decide to wait for now. No peace though, hoping to extort a bit at alphabet if I can get there.

He then sends a modest stack at me, which includes 3 spears, so I decide it’s time:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

No need to lose any immortals. I’ll take him with siege later. And COL brings this:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg

Nice – religion always helps. After COL, off to alphabet, which allows for this:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg

I have too much land to care about SB or Sury, it’s all about righting my economy faster, and I have jungle to clear and a need for happiness.
And hey, I’m almost at currency, let’s keep settling cities.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg

Currency allows for good old fashioned begging:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg

And SB continues to be a great trading partner.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg

Meanwhile, I’m building settlers and overlapping like crazy now. Economy is fine, and now it’s time to get a couple production sites up and running to mow down the AI. Oh, and I forgot, this guy popped as a result of running so many merchants.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

I figured the short term return of a trade mission would be pretty useful. I head towards CS and Machinery – figure maces will carry the day on Sury before he gets longbows. He decides to make it easier on me by DOWing me first:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg

Easy enough. I’m 1 turn from mace, with some gold to upgrade. Not good for him. I must admit, he was a pain though – he had a lot of units everywhere. Swords, axes and spears. Nuisances for sure. But all my cities producing maces eventually overcame. I took two cities, and he made it to feudalism, so a pause:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg

He’s down to three cities, so some siege will finish him relatively easily. Besides, keeping him around will keep SB trading with me. Build cats while finishing the way to lib. One turn from lib, here’s the situation:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg

Obviously, in about 10 turns, I’ll have enough cats arrive to finish off Sury. Probably just go the simple route and take nationalism now. Probably could get steel, but since I don’t know for sure what the other continent is doing, may as well take Taj off of this for the golden age.

I decided to play this one from the 4000BC save:

Sorry about the lack of screenshots. :blush:

I settled 1W to grab the marble (revealed by moving the scout). I popped wheel from a hut a explored most of the continent (not Surya's land, though). Tech path was fishing, AG, AH, mining, masonry, BW, pottery, writing. Settled 1SW of the horses, roaded back to the capital, and started spamming immortals. I took out Justinian first, starting with his capital, and kept all 3 of his cities (hindu and jewish holy cities!). Mansa was next - first Timbuktu, then I razed a junk city, but when I saw CG skirms on a hill in Djenne I decided to let him live. He's worth more as a tech partner than he is dead. I let SB alone (hate protective civs :lol: ) and settled a couple more cities of my own, including the floodplains south of Djenne. I then started on the long hard slog to right the economy (I was losing :gold: at 0 at that point). I hooked up the copper for protection from Surya (he was jewish and hated me for boxing him in). SB and Mansa were both buddhist, and I had the holy city (Timbuktu), so I converted. I build libraries everywhere and teched aesthetics, figuring that I could trade it for alpha. Meanwhile, I started chopping the 'mids in Constantinople, figuring I'd only get spoiler cash (SB had stone). To my surprise, I got them and switched to rep. Along with cottages everywhere and as many scientists as I could run, I got to aesth but nobody has alpha yet, so I tech it as well. Meanwhile, I built the Parth in Constantinople along with the Great Library. I made a tone of trades with alpha and aesth, grabbed math and calender next, then CoL, MC, mach, CS. A;pmg the way Surya DOWed me a couple of times, but I easily held him off. The idiot came after me again just after I got maces online, and I took him out completely. His capital is an awesome GP farm - I built the NE and Oxford there. I switched the capital twice - first to Timbuktu and then to Constantinople (I needed someplace to sink :hammers: without building more units :lol: ). I got a GProphet from Constantinople (from stonehenge) and founded the buddhist shrine, which helped a lot. Even though I didn't run and priests, I got 3 more prophets eventually, so I built the hindu and jewish shrines as well. Needless to say, I easily won the lib race and am far out-teching the others. I've decided to go for an easy space win. Wang, SB, and Mansa all love me, so it's a big buddhist tech fest on my continent. Mansa only has 2 cities, so there's not much danger of him going for a culture win. :lol: I took nat from lib, teched to demo and built the SoL, grabbed the GM from econ and beelined medicine to found sushi. Currently teching radio. Should be a piece of cake from here (Mansa just got edu, and he's the closest one to me).

All done - 685 AD dom victory. As you'll see, the weird WB advance start at 4000 BC ruined my hall of fame a bit...


Cruise control now – all workers automated. Lib-Nat and start on taj:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg

And Sury time:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg

One city easy – troops rest a turn, and then head to his capital. Meanwhile, another one of these guys

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg

I decided to go with the merchant economy this game. Heading toward steel while kicking Sury off the mainland. And his capital is very nice:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg

Gee, all my cities got 1 more health and 2 more trade routes for each coastal city. Not bad. And he’s off the mainland:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0026.jpg

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg

And I’m done with him. No need to bother building any ships to go finish him off the other island. Did I mention this whole time I’ve been dumb enough not to bother with the aesthetics line. No HE, NE…yes, I am rusty after a month away. Not that it matters with all this land. Finish Taj:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0028.jpg

And decide to backtrack to quickly get my HE up and running. Hit cannons, tech off for a few turns, upgrade trebs to cannons, and plan to go on SB. Right before, I meet Joao:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0029.jpg

Clearly the other civs are backwards. So go time on SB:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0030.jpg

He has no hope – his biggest stack is in this city, which is no match for a 40 unit stack half full of cannons. Beat him down with cannons and maces, who then get upgraded to rifles. Finally, decide to let him cap to hopefully get a dom victory, as I’m close.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0031.jpg

After building culture a few turns, it's over:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0032.jpg

I like the screen below - top 5 cities, and none are persian..doesn't matter when all persian cities are building units.

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0033.jpg

Builds:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0034.jpg

Nothing that unusual. And this is a bummer:

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii402/michmbk/Gandhi%20RPC/Civ4ScreenShot0035.jpg

Yes, that weird WB start in 4000 BC with a bunch of turns already taken really skewed my score. My previous high score was about 165k...obviously this blows it out of the water, but it's not really a true high score since a bunch of turns were played before I picked it up at 4000 BC. Oh well. Fun way to get back into it - I like being set up for victory with a bunch of land. As long as you have pottery and writing, you can get your way out of just about any situation.

I have never seen someone say such a score is a 'bummer'.

@michmbk: That is the highest score I have ever seen. Impressive, very impressive.

Funny to "complain" about such a high score, but it's clearly tainted. There were what, 200 marathon turns taken before I "started" in 4000 BC? I obviously never would have had that much land or population at 685 AD in a "normal" game.

It was kind of fun to see a score that high, but makes my hall of fame look a bit depressing with everything else much, much lower!

1891 space victory:

In retrospect, once Surya was gone the game was a walk in the park. Surya had spawned Wang as a colony on the southern continent/island, Bull did the same with Roosevelt to the NE. We were all buddhist, and since I had the holy city/shrine it was immensely profitable. I kept everyone happy with trades, and helped out with most of their requests. There were no wars until after my ship launched, when Joao declared on Wang and capped him. Gilga hated me, but he was Joao's vassal so it didn't matter. Joao stayed pleased after I give in to 1 or 2 of his tech demands. After founding sushi I popped a GE, so I had mining inc as well. :) Poor Mansa - all that sushi culture squeezed him horribly. :lol: I had the most units, as well as the most modern ones, so I was never at risk of a late DOW. Final score was around 73k.

Hey guys, how do you eliminate Mansa? I find him undislodgeable. Any help?

A looooot of immortals!!!

Why do you want to eliminate him? He'll quickly get to pleased after you're done warring with him if you have the same religion, and he can still tech surprisingly well with only a couple of cities. Trust me, you don't want to be alone on a continent with Bull - he'll never trade anything until you get him to friendly. Mansa's a great tech partner, and in this game you can trim him down enough that he'll never be a threat but will help a lot with teching. You can take him out anytime you want.

Sury is there as well.... And with religion, Friendly Sury is not bad for trade. Plus, Mansa's capital is :drool:

With respect to Mansa:

I got rid of him instantly, mainly for his capital, which was an obscene city. I just took every immortal from every city, added 2 more that were being built and sent them toward him - cities size 1 don't need defenders, so why not put the immortals to good use. With only 2 cities, you can also wait a bit and let him develop the cottages, because he doesn't have enough production power to hang. Immortals are one of the best units to attack Mansa with early, because otherwise his skirmishers can stop most other units.