SGOTM 10 - Fifth Element [Archive] - Page 5 - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 16, 2009, 09:10 PM

Since, it was my TS that ended with the current save, I'm in the best position to explain the reasons for observations that greatbeyond has made. First of all, thank you for speaking out. We will all learn to play better, if we continue question why certain things in the game were done (past tense) or preferably why they are there in the PPP.

Some observations from the save. Some of them come a little late.

Worker in Yakutsk is building a Workshop on Grassland. If we need Hammers, wouldn't it be more productive to build a mine on the Grass Hill (same output as the WS on grasslands), on the Copper, or the Plains 1SE?

The PPP actually said the Worker would build a Copper Mine, but this would result in a 5H Tile whereas the Grassland Workshop is 1F4H. I decided to build the Grassland Workshop first so the City would continue to grow +1 Fpt faster than working the Copper Mine 5H would.

St Pete - switch from the GH 1E to the PH 1W and the Bank is done in 5T. After the Bank is built, spend a couple of turns maxing pop.

Yes, the Bank is built in 5t rather by making the change you suggested, but the same 5t deadline can be met by leaving Citizens where they are and add 5 Hammers in the 4th or 5th turn of the Bank build when the effect of the Poisoned Water is reduced.

I'd like St. Petersburg to build Wealth after completing the Bank in 5t. However, it could best do this after growing from 10P to 13P, so definitely increase Growth to at least +3 Fpt or more.

Novgorod - I know Hammers are important but building a WS on the river (1NE) has denied us a tile to get higher Pop quicker. Which is better, a city with 9 pop that will give 20 hammers (steady, lower hammer production) and improve very slowly or one that grows faster and will eventually be able to work tiles giving 7 more raw hammers. (Fewer initial Hammers but many more in the long run)

What is missing is the temporary loan of the Floodplain to St. Petersburg, so it can tolerate the Poisoned Water while it subsides. When Novgorod starts working its Floodplain Farm 4F1C again, its Growth will bounce back to at least +2 Fpt, enough for slow Growth at least.

The 20 Hpt were needed to complete the Bank in a timely fashion for a City with many nearly worthless Tundra Tiles.

Rostov - We could max out our growth to get to size 20 after the next GS is born. Of course we could be happy with it producing WBs for our new cities. With some manipulation, at size 20 we could run two more Scientists. IF we are going to shift our Great Person building efforts to Sugar Isle 2.

Rostov is currently at Healthiness Cap at 18 Health. We must switch the Engineer to a Scientist.

We can add two Scientists right now by moving the 4 Citizens on the three Mines and one Workshop to two Shores 2F2C and two Scientists, but this would drastically reduce Hpt and thus the amount of Wealth it can Build. This would allow our Great Scientists to be generated faster, so it actually may be our best option for Rostov. My previous calculations assumed 10 Scientists in Rostov and we could and probably should support 11 Scientists instead.

Yaroslavl - free specialist was sitting unassigned. Make him an Engineer and use the citizen to work a coast tile for quicker growth.

Actually, the free specialist is already assigned as an Engineer. You are probably referring to the Citizen Specialist 1H that I switched from a Merchant 3W to add +2 Hpt and complete the Bank sooner via 15 Hpt versus 13 Hpt without the Citizen Specialist.

I strongly suggest no changes to Worked Tiles and Specialists in Yaroslavl' to maintain 15 Hpt and completion of the Bank in 6t.

Yekaterinberg - Again I argue there are two many hammer tiles and not enough growth tiles. Next growth is in 23 turns currently. It can easily sustain another 6 pop. My suggestion is to WS the plains tile 1WN and then farm one of the tiles along the river.

This is actually in the process of being done; that will increase Growth from +1 Fpt to +3 Fpt and the City will grow to 11P in about 8t.

It can build a University in 5 turns. We should do so and build Oxford.

That is an option, but this is our Herioc Epic City and it should be building Military units, which includes Work Boats; stagger Work Boat builds and Privateer builds to sustain 1 unit per turn for the full 12-13 turns of the TS.

Also, Vladivostok will complete Library in 2t and can complete the 5th University rather quickly with its 4 Workers building a 2nd Sugar Plantation, 2nd Workshop and two or more Lumbermills.

Vladivostok - As soon as the Library is done, more growth. Then a CH. We could do the CH first and then growth.

No, this is where we will build our National Park and associated 9 free Specialists (Scientists); We should build a University next for +25% Research on those Specialists plus the three Specialists supported by the two Sugar Plantations and free Mercantilism Specialist, making a total of 13 Specialists.

Why are the Workers clearing the jungle? The best that this does for us is give us a tile that produces 2 food. Even if we WS it (~6T from now), it gives 1F3H. We can work coast tiles and get 2F2G and use the Workers to build Lumbermills giving us 4 to 5 hammers on Plains (until we can build forest preserves) and work those tiles for hammers. Isn't this going to be our super science city?

You are missing the fact that the Workers are chopping Jungle from a Sugar which will provide 3F1C after the Jungle Chop is completed; a Sugar Plantation will be built next to add +1F.

No, the Grassland Workshop provides 1F4H and not just 1F3H, because we get an extra 1H for running Caste System. We can get at most 4H on the 3H Forest with Lumbermills until we complete Railroad and then building a Railroad on a Lumbermill will provide an extra Hammer. However, the 4H/5H Lumbermill requires 2 Fpt to support it whereas two 1F4H Grassland Workshops requires the same 2 Fpt, but provides 2 x 4H = 8 Hpt.

Yes, this will be our primary and Emancipation proof Science City. While Emancipation may drag Rostov down to 6 Scientists or even less, Vladivostok will keep humming at 13 Scientists, since it needs only 6 Population an will be below Happiness Cap even during the worst phases of Emancipation Unhappiness.

Sun Tzu Wu

culdeus

Oct 16, 2009, 09:23 PM

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 16, 2009, 10:18 PM

Until Radio ICBMs are the only way to go. Forget forts. With subs things will change, but we need a lot of them. Anyway, better some more sub than a bunch of costly (and used once) ICBMs.

Forts work just as well for purpose of rebasing and launching Tactical Nukes. You say forget Forts, but you provide no explanation why!

To take the cities G has at present, we need 3 ICBMs (Bombay, Dehli and the island), the other are in Tac range, provided we start from the city W of Novo, rebase, nuke the city N, take it, rebase, nuke the city W ot that.

A Fort can be built 1-W of St. Petersburg which can launch a Tactical Nuke at Delhi; Another Fort can be built 3-W of Novgorod which can launch a Tactical Nuke at Vijayanagara. Novgorod can launch a Tactical Nuke at Calcutta.

Fighters can be used to destroy Roads between the Nuked Cities and Gandhi's remaining Cities to hinder reinforcements on the turn the first wave of Tactical Nukes are launched.

In the meantime we'll research Radio, then Ecology, then the path to Industrialism.

We may want to complete Assembly Line much sooner than after Ecology. I don't see how we are going to build Tactical Nukes quickly, much less ICBMs, with Factories and Power Plants! It would really be nice to have Factories and Power Plants in most of our Cities when we complete Rocketry. That would imply Assembly Line before Rocketry at least.

Any city we settle is too costly: we need research in this phase. Using Subs loaded with Tacs and guided and transports loaded with troops with amphibious promotion we can take the most of AI cities when research will cease to be important.

We can Settle more Cities when our Economy improves. It is much easier to Settle in places before the AI does and later get a Tactical Nuke and units to Capture a City that is unlikely to provide us anything except a net maintenance deficit. Whereas a City we Settle will provide either Mining, Inc. and/or Sid;s Sushi Resources and some amount of Hpt, Bpt and Wpt.

The idea to research a different path to have time to pop GSs is good, but if we can trade for SM is better. In my tests, the only AI with Steel was G, 'cause he stolen it to me. But he traded SM for RP once i researched it at 0 for some turn, then he went for the communism route. Later he traded MT too, for Bio. No more techs to trade, i was too advanced.

Replaceable Parts for Scientific Method still sounds crazy. Won't Gandhi trade it to the other AIs?. It puts them all too close to Rifling. So why does Gandhi want Replaceable Parts? For the +1 Hpt for Windmill and Watermill? When the other AIs get Rifling, we will fell pressure to get Military Tradition or Assembly Line to improve our front line soldiers.

Privateers:
there was a sort of contest for the AI: let's chase privateers. And they played with lot of frigates stacks. No, the time for privateers is almost gone. I wasn't able to save any of them. Even in port they're not safe, since with OB the AI can attack them even in port. And we have OB with all the AI.

The AI Frigates can chase Privateers all they want, but with our +1 MP, the Privateers can almost always evade Frigates or even destroy them with superior numbers. We can simply avoid Frigate only stacks and take out all other AI shipping.

We also need troops, many troops: even if damaged by nukes we can find many defenders. Once i've found 10 of them: not a problem, but you need 10 attackers.

We should adopt Nationhood when we adopt Free Market. We could adopt Nationhood after Moscow completes Wall Street (9t) and Ironworks (11t).

After flight we also can build airports in any city: this will not only let move troops quick, but also increases the research abd commerce.

Yes, even though they are expensive, Airports are worth the expense in Cities that have sufficient Hammers to build them.

A carrier loaded with 3 fighters can do a respectable job in softening not badly damaged defenders (it can happen).

Fighters can fly from Forts as well as Cities and attack Roads and Railroads too.

In my test, i finished G in 1940, but i'm sure we can do better. This time dG left Chur with only one city (the island copper) so i've found time to eliminate him too in the process.

Hopefully, we can finish the Game before 1940 AD?

Please post your Game starting save, so others can do similar tests and maybe find a quicker way to Victory. I'm very interested in doing a test game and save similar to our current Game state would save me a lot of time constructing one by hand. I have used World Builder 1-2 years ago for a few hours, but remember very little about the experience.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 17, 2009, 03:01 AM

Hopefully, we can finish the Game before 1940 AD?

Please post your Game starting save, so others can do similar tests and maybe find a quicker way to Victory. I'm very interested in doing a test game and save similar to our current Game state would save me a lot of time constructing one by hand. I have used World Builder 1-2 years ago for a few hours, but remember very little about the experience.It wasn't an accurate reproduction, i just started from the last WB save GB posted time ago.
That Nationhood thing: no, no, no! Moscow can build a ICBM in 3 turns thanks to bureau, 2 Tacs in 3. We don't need Intantry: you forgot that Rocketry obsolete rifles and gives SAM Infantry: less powerful than Infantry, but better than rilfes. If we research AL before eliminate G, it will be too late: no, straight to nukes.
As i already said, OK the detour for railroad to increase production, OK the detour to Medicine to ensure food, but no more. Ecology is an absolute priority to clean the fallout.
Indian cities can have a good part in our final rush: they're all good, but the island. They bring resources for both Sushi and MI.
Also, not cleaning the fallout can destroy improvements and cause Global Warming, so it's a priority. We'll decide about Radio before or after it, but that's it. AL and Industrialism will follow.
I also want all the Radio Wonders.

In my last test (always started earlier than we are now and not totally accurate, i made some tweaks while playing) i finished G in 1938. We can maybe improve, but not much. Thins will let "only" some 45 cities to take from the 3 remaining AIs. I think it will be great if we finish before 1990. Only because Starting from 1940 every year is divided in 2 (January/July).

BTW, since the MP can be built in 8 turns, i researched until Flight, then Fission, then Rocketry, timing the MP for the turn Rocktry was done. This will let more cities build airports and airlift unit where needed before the war.

Just for your fun, in the last test dG asked for an enormous amount of gold, i refused and few turns later he declared. I destroyed some 20 ships with destroyers and transports, then a stack of Musketeers (!) and trebs with my rifles. That stack was threatening the sheep city just E of Yek. dG took all the barb continent.
But in the other attempts that was left to barbs.

greatbeyond

Oct 17, 2009, 09:40 AM

A very nice and well thought analysis of my comments STW. I had forgotten about the extra hammer, so that makes the difference between tiles much less.

I didn't catch the fact that the citizen being idled actually sped up the production.

My main point of all was more growth. As always it is a trade-off, between focusing on growth or production.

I must have really missed the fact the Workers were clearing the Jungle from a Sugar tile.

Rostov - This is a real toss up. My gut tells me we need to research faster and a GS produced sooner will help that. IF G already has SM, it doesn't make much sense to research it ourselves, The question is what to give him that will help him the least and he'll have poor results trading. IIRC there is still someone we can sell PP to. I know it wasn't much money, perhaps a DOW against someone?

I will consider it good if we win before 2000 AD. I have played this game out several times and you really have to do so to see how long a battle it really is. I would consider a win by 1945 AD to be excellent. One thing that will make a difference is limiting the number of AI cities.

It wasn't long ago that we had written off DeGaulle as hopelessly behind and would never amount to anything. We may need to consider helping Churchill. Perhaps by bribing someone to war with DG. It is to our advantage to have all the AIs comparable than to have one strong and the others weak.

I never realized that aircraft could operate from Forts.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 17, 2009, 11:21 AM

Growth:

My main point of all was more growth. As always it is a trade-off, between focusing on growth or production.

In my TS, due to our Economy nearly going into deficit even at Research 00%, we needed to complete 5 Banks and Wall Street ASAP. We are well on our way to doing so and should be just 2t short of completing Wall Street in culdeus' TS. The point I'm making is we need to focus on Hammers in the Cities building Banks (current Bank builds only - we need just 5 Banks to build WS) and Wall Street, at least until they have completed those builds. Moscow can grow after completing Wall Street and starting Ironworks. Cities building the last three of five Banks we need for WS can grow after the Bank is completed. For Vladivostok, we need Hammers to build a University and possibly a Courthouse, but we also want to be at Population 5 or 6-7 (depending on which Forests Lumbermills are built on) when starting National Park. Yakutsk has sufficient Growth, but needs more Hammer Tiles to complete University as quickly as Vladivostok completes its University. Other Cities can grow (fast) after they complete a Courthouse.

Rostov maximize Scientists:

Rostov - This is a real toss up. My gut tells me we need to research faster and a GS produced sooner will help that. IF G already has SM, it doesn't make much sense to research it ourselves, The question is what to give him that will help him the least and he'll have poor results trading. IIRC there is still someone we can sell PP to. I know it wasn't much money, perhaps a DOW against someone?

We should hire 11 Scientists in Rostov to rush GS generation, even though this will leave only 3 Base Hammers and idle the Forge.

Slow down De Gaulle:

It wasn't long ago that we had written off DeGaulle as hopelessly behind and would never amount to anything. We may need to consider helping Churchill. Perhaps by bribing someone to war with DG. It is to our advantage to have all the AIs comparable than to have one strong and the others weak.

We need to be careful that De Gaulle doesn't become too Powerful. He has largely escaped our Privateer War and we must bring it to him to stop his expansion. Also, bribing an AI to DoW would be a good idea, if its not too late.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 17, 2009, 03:16 PM

We need to be careful that De Gaulle doesn't become too Powerful. He has largely escaped our Privateer War and we must bring it to him to stop his expansion. Also, bribing an AI to DoW would be a good idea, if its not too late.

Sun Tzu WuIn my last test, for what is worth, he left Chur with only one city and took all the barbs cities. Not in the previous 2 tests, but he was strong.
Some numbers:
dG has 26 cities, Roos 11 and Mao 11. This means 48 nukes to be built, mainly Tacs.
But the most of the Chinese cities are inland or blocked by ice, so we must be prepared to afford a ground war. All Indian cities are on coast as the Americans and almost all (maybe all, i can't swear) tyhe barb (or former barb) cities.

I think the best use for our new GG is to settle him in Novo. Moscow will be busy building nat or W Wonders, or whealth (a monster with WS and IW), and Novo after the levee and Bio has more than decent production.

Since our GP units (rifles, then SAM Infantry) start with C1, with the 2 XP added they can be promoted to C2>Amphibious, which i've found far more effective than pinch. Once they gain XP, pinch can be added to the C2+Amphibious, making them deadly.

I like best upgrade the rifles to Infantry, since they will have 20 strenght compared to 18 of SAMs. It's also cheaper, for some reason (probably the anti-air ability) SAMs are more expensive than Infantry.

Back to the enemy number of cities.
Our problem is maintenance, since we don't wanna run State property to not lose the (huge) benefits from Corps.
In my tests i've settled only 2 more cities over the planned ones: 1 to grab land oil, the other to grab the Sheeps E of Yek. Settle more cities will slow our research due to maintenance, and i can't see reaaly good spots.

The AI (mainly dG) has settled a few cities in horrible spots but not even considered the ones STW has marked (or similar, the map is not the same). The main problem is that the AI will go for barb cities.

So, i think we can stop with the 2 i mentioned above, squeeze the best in research until Nukes, then take our continent, make it productive, prepare a monster army (ships will have a great role) then invade overseas.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 17, 2009, 06:35 PM

Holding back De Gaulle:

In my last test, for what is worth, he left Chur with only one city and took all the barbs cities. Not in the previous 2 tests, but he was strong.
Some numbers:
dG has 26 cities, Roos 11 and Mao 11. This means 48 nukes to be built, mainly Tacs.
But the most of the Chinese cities are inland or blocked by ice, so we must be prepared to afford a ground war. All Indian cities are on coast as the Americans and almost all (maybe all, i can't swear) tyhe barb (or former barb) cities.

We can slow down De Gaulle by focusing the Privateers versus his shipping; it will be very difficult for to overcome swarms of our Privateers even if he makes several Frigates. When we complete Combustion, we can upgrade our highly promoted Privateers to Destroyers and our Navy will be more Powerful than all the AIs Navies combined.

Great General utilization:

I think the best use for our new GG is to settle him in Novo. Moscow will be busy building nat or W Wonders, or whealth (a monster with WS and IW), and Novo after the levee and Bio has more than decent production.

St. Petersburg has 25 Base Hammers (potentially 29) versus Novgorod with 16 Base, so Novgorod is favored because it can build Naval Vessels, right? The Levee in Novgorod can add at most 8 Hammers for a total of 24 Base Hammers which is still significantly behind St. Petersburg at 29 Base Hammers.

Foot Soldier build up:

Since our GP units (rifles, then SAM Infantry) start with C1, with the 2 XP added they can be promoted to C2>Amphibious, which i've found far more effective than pinch. Once they gain XP, pinch can be added to the C2+Amphibious, making them deadly.

Yes, the Amphibious promotion is the best, given that our soldiers will often attack Port Cities from Galleons or Transports. On the main Continent, Pinch might be better, and ideally Cossacks would be better as they cover ground twice as fast as foot soldiers.

Nationhood has great synergy with Sid's Sushi! All the Teams leading now will very likely use it, once the dominating effect of the Capital disappears; it is waning for us now; As our other Cities grow, our Capital and Bureaucracy is holding them back. With Nationhood we can Draft a Rifleman in up to 3 Cities with Population 6 or more at a cost of 1 Pop and 3 Unhappiness and the Cites' current build is left unimpeded with the exception of the loss of 1 Citizen. Sid's Sushi will quickly grow the lost Population. Repeat in All Cities with at least 2 excess Happiness and otherwise wait until the temporary Unhappiness dissipates (maximum of 15t). Nationhood also provides +2 Happiness per cheap (Aggressive trait) Barrack and +25% Espionage. Also, Bureaucracy is an expensive Civic whereas Nationhood is a cheap Civic and the difference between them right now is 17 Wpt!

I like best upgrade the rifles to Infantry, since they will have 20 strength compared to 18 of SAMs. It's also cheaper, for some reason (probably the anti-air ability) SAMs are more expensive than Infantry.

Upgrading Riflemen to Infantry sounds the best, once we have Assembly Line.

# of Cities:

Back to the enemy number of cities.
Our problem is maintenance, since we don't wanna run State property to not lose the (huge) benefits from Corps.
In my tests i've settled only 2 more cities over the planned ones: 1 to grab land oil, the other to grab the Sheeps E of Yek. Settle more cities will slow our research due to maintenance, and i can't see reaaly good spots.

The City Site #8 with Clam and Silver is definitely worthwhile. Once it builds a Courhouse, it should be self-sufficient based on the extra Commerce of the Silver Tile (2H5C) and successive Shore Tiles (2F2C). This City also provides an extra Sid's Sushi (+0.75 Fpt & 3 Cult/turn per City with Sid's Sushi) and Mining, Inc. Resource (+1.50 Hpt per City with Mining, Inc).

The AI (mainly dG) has settled a few cities in horrible spots but not even considered the ones STW has marked (or similar, the map is not the same). The main problem is that the AI will go for barb cities.

As I've said before, Privateers are still very effective against All AIs, especially those not fielding significant numbers of Frigates like De Gaulle.

Furthermore, we need more Privateers to destroy AI Nets as well as AI shipping.

So, i think we can stop with the 2 i mentioned above, squeeze the best in research until Nukes, then take our continent, make it productive, prepare a monster army (ships will have a great role) then invade overseas.

After significant spreading of Mining, Inc. and Sid's Sushi, we can add more Cities with Mining, Inc. and Sid's Sushi Resources to increase the benefits of these two Corporations. By the time, one has a Corporation, one wants the maximum no. of that Corporation's Resources to maximize its return on the Corporate investment.

I see no problem with increasing the number of Cities as long as they provide at least two Corporation Resources each. We just need to temper our City settlement rate to match our Economic recovery. As each of the next 3 Banks complete and especially when Wall Street completes, our Economy will recover significantly. Add a few Wealth builds and we should be back up well above 50% Research, maybe even 60-70% Research. At that point, our Economy should be able to support at least another 6-7 Cities between Mining,Inc. and Sid's Sushi and the completion of Rocketry.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 17, 2009, 06:54 PM

Our slow down in research has me worried.

I'll bet most of the Teams have had worst crashes then us and took longer to recover from them.

I'll also bet nearly all Teams have suffered a DoW from Gandhi and almost certainly more devastating Cultural incursions than we have seen! We have probably suffered the least of all Teams, because of unclethrill's skill in getting Gandhi to settle always away from us and we settled St. Petersburg in the ideal location to help in doing this and yet be affected by Gandhi's Culture in Delhi the least. This was aided by prudent building of several Cultural building in St. Petersburg, including a Theatre and three Monasteries.

Our end Game is looking very promising!

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 17, 2009, 07:30 PM

I can sit tight for now. Some things discussed here that might put my TS on brief hold.

I'll be around most of weekend and can play mid-afternoon or perhaps very late tonight. If nothing else pops up I'll definitely do it this weekend. We are so far ahead of everyone it might be worth it to digest everything.

If you agree with my previously posted suggestions (except Rostov) for your PPP, perhaps you could incorporate them into a Revised PPP?

My revised suggestion for Rostov:

We should hire 11 Scientists in Rostov to rush GS generation, even though this will leave only 3 Base Hammers and idle the Forge.

Hire 11 Scientists and move 2 Citizens to Shore (2F2C) to support the two extra Specialists; Build 3 Wpt for the entire TS.

So, we may have a consensus, except for at least one major issue ...

We have no consensus on whether to continue building Privateers or not:

BLubmuz wants to stop Privateer production immediately. We must assume he has not changed his mind regarding this.

I'm still 100% in favor of a massive Privateer fleet of about 20 to utterly destroy all AI shipping (avoiding Frigate only stacks - should not be too hard with +1 MP) and destroy all AI Fishing Nets. The AI sends their Frigates around futilely trying to catch up to our Privateers, but they can never succeed while we can track their location and always place our Privateers just beyond the reach of the AI Frigates. When it comes to Naval unit movement, the AI is really, very, very stupid! As long as we remain alert to Frigate stack locations and either keep clear of them or ambush them we will have numerous highly promoted Privateers that we can upgrade to Destroyers.

Everyone, please voice your opinion on whether we should continue to build Privateers. I think this is the main thing holding up culdeus from playing his TS.

Sun Tzu Wu

greatbeyond

Oct 17, 2009, 08:54 PM

Privateers are still useful but I don't want to build too many more. I estimate we need at least 4 in a stack maybe 5 and we need at least 3 possibly 4 stacks.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 17, 2009, 09:14 PM

It wasn't an accurate reproduction, i just started from the last WB save GB posted time ago.

Thanks for the explanation.

OK, I'll use World Builder on the last test save greatbeyond provided. I'll update it with all the Terrain we see in the turn 156 1843 AD save. That may be sufficient for a Start. I'll play each TS as best as I can deduce from PPPs in this thread. I'll use WB to occasionally to update things in the test Game that no longer match the Real Game whenever that can be determined.

That Nationhood thing: no, no, no! Moscow can build a ICBM in 3 turns thanks to bureau, 2 Tacs in 3.

Bureaucracy only helps our Capital and Bureaucracy costs 17 Wpt more than Nationhood. Nationhood allows 3 Cities with Population 6 or more to Draft 1 Rifleman at the cost of just 1 Population and 3 Unhappiness for only 15t. We will get far more value out of Drafting dozens of Rifleman from All our Cities especially those with Sid's Sushi than we can possibly get out of Bureacracy, considering both its +50% Hammers and +50% Commerce (note that this bonus applies only to Commerce and not any Wealth sources like Corporate Headquarters).

I agree that it may be worthwhile to two ICBMs to hit Bombay and Pataliputra that are beyond Tactical Nuke range. Agra could be hit via a Tactical Nuke launched from our City Site #8 or a nearby Fort. Is the range of a tactical Nuke the same as Ring 4 of a City? That would make sense if it did, but Civ 4 and BtS doesn't always make sense. City Site #9 appears to be just short of Tactical Nuke range to hit Pataliputra, but if it built Culture with Mining, Inc., a fort could be built close enough to Pataliputra for a Tactical Nuke hit.

We don't need Infantry: you forgot that Rocketry obsolete rifles and gives SAM Infantry: less powerful than Infantry, but better than rilfes. If we research AL before eliminate G, it will be too late: no, straight to nukes.

OK, we can build SAM Infantry after Rocketry, but Rocketry should not obsolete Riflemen; only Assembly Line obsoletes Riflemen with Infantry. SAM Infantry can't be drafted and if one doesn't have Assembly Line and has Rifling, the unit drafted is a Rifleman; I see no other possibility, since the Game must allow drafting to occur while Nationhood is in effect.

Now that you put it this way, I agree that we should delay Assembly Line so we can draft Rifleman for just 1 Population versus Infantry for 2 Population. The optimal unit to draft is the Rifleman, a 148H unit, for just 1 Population! I just don't see how you can be so blind to the power of Nationhood and drafting. With Drafting, we get a relatively expensive unit (148H) for the price of just 1 Population and some Unhappiness that the City can easily afford it or we don't draft in that particular City.

As i already said, OK the detour for railroad to increase production, OK the detour to Medicine to ensure food, but no more. Ecology is an absolute priority to clean the fallout.

OK, we can delay Assembly Line somewhat, but I think we should have Factories (+25% Hammers) and Power Plants (+50% Hammers with Coal or Uranium respectively) in Cities where we plan to build Tactical Nukes and ICBMs. I just don't understand why we should delay Assembly Line any later that after Railroad (after founding Mining, Inc. that can be used to help build Factories and Power Plants).

Indian cities can have a good part in our final rush: they're all good, but the island. They bring resources for both Sushi and MI.
Also, not cleaning the fallout can destroy improvements and cause Global Warming, so it's a priority. We'll decide about Radio before or after it, but that's it. AL and Industrialism will follow.
I also want all the Radio Wonders.

Gandhi's Cities on our Continent can be productive again after very long disorder periods (10t and more for the larger Cities), but of Mining, Inc. Resources, they provide only one Iron and two Coal (two of which we won't have until the disorder expires). Of Sid's Sushi Resources, Gandhi has two Clams and one Fish and we again will have to wait until the disorder expires (and one only when Bombay pops to Ring 2 Borders and another when Agra pops to Ring 2 Borders).

In my last test (always started earlier than we are now and not totally accurate, i made some tweaks while playing) i finished G in 1938. We can maybe improve, but not much. Thins will let "only" some 45 cities to take from the 3 remaining AIs. I think it will be great if we finish before 1990. Only because Starting from 1940 every year is divided in 2 (January/July).

OK, I'm sure you used a very good strategy to Research quickly. It should be almost trivial to finish Gandhi with a simultaneous launch of 3 Tactical Nukes and 3 ICBMs at his six Cities plus sufficient Soldiers attacking from Galleons/Transports. However, are certain you used the most optimal Research and Wealth building strategies to arrive at Rocketry as quickly as possible and yet with sufficient forces to overwhelm Gandhi after the Nuclear 1st strike? You already noted that your conclusions could be a ways off, because the test Map is significantly different from the Real Map.

BTW, since the MP can be built in 8 turns, i researched until Flight, then Fission, then Rocketry, timing the MP for the turn Rocktry was done. This will let more cities build airports and airlift unit where needed before the war.

This sounds quite efficient, but what do we if there is no Uranium inside our Cultural Borders or worst yet, all Uranium is in the possession of AIs or The Barbarian State?

Just for your fun, in the last test dG asked for an enormous amount of gold, i refused and few turns later he declared. I destroyed some 20 ships with destroyers and transports, then a stack of Musketeers (!) and trebs with my rifles. That stack was threatening the sheep city just E of Yek. dG took all the barb continent.
But in the other attempts that was left to barbs.

So, what units did the AI have when you captured all of Gandhi's Cities? What Technologies? Maybe we could leave Agra for Gandhi and later trade Peace for some Technology Gandhi has like Military Tradition or maybe even Assembly Line?

We could research Radio anytime after Electricity and Combustion and start building Submarines (and Bombers after Flight).

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 17, 2009, 09:34 PM

Privateers are still useful but I don't want to build too many more. I estimate we need at least 4 in a stack maybe 5 and we need at least 3 possibly 4 stacks.

The above is the right approach to determining the number of Privateers we want.

Privateers in stacks of 4-5 will easily survive attacks from anything less than a Frigate or another Privateer. 4-5 Privateers can easily take out a Frigate or maybe even two protecting a Galleon.

One stack could be sent to De Gaulle's home waters. A second stack could work in Roosevelt's home waters. A third stack could work in Gandhi's home waters and possibly south near City Sites #6 and #8. A fourth stack can be sent to the area with greatest resistance (higher concentration of Frigates or numerous lesser Vessels).

So, four stacks of five Privateers sounds rather reasonable (20 Privateers in total).

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 18, 2009, 04:09 AM

So, what units did the AI have when you captured all of Gandhi's Cities? What Technologies? Maybe we could leave Agra for Gandhi and later trade Peace for some Technology Gandhi has like Military Tradition or maybe even Assembly Line?

1) Bureaucracy only helps our Capital and Bureaucracy costs 17 Wpt more than Nationhood. Nationhood allows 3 Cities with Population 6 or more to Draft 1 Rifleman at the cost of just 1 Population and 3 Unhappiness for only 15t. We will get far more value out of Drafting dozens of Rifleman from All our Cities especially those with Sid's Sushi than we can possibly get out of Bureacracy, considering both its +50% Hammers and +50% Commerce (note that this bonus applies only to Commerce and not any Wealth sources like Corporate Headquarters).

3) OK, we can build SAM Infantry after Rocketry, but Rocketry should not obsolete Riflemen; only Assembly Line obsoletes Riflemen with Infantry.
4) OK, I'm sure you used a very good strategy to Research quickly. It should be almost trivial to finish Gandhi with a simultaneous launch of 3 Tactical Nukes and 3 ICBMs at his six Cities plus sufficient Soldiers attacking from
1) you almost convinced me about Nationhood. If we switch after Moscow will have IW and the SoL is finished or almost finished it won't be a great loss and we gain probably more than 17 gpt since our cities will be more developed by then and the civic cost will be higher.

2) I don't quote your various posts about privateers, but you are underestimating the AI capability to build and field frigates. dG moves with HUGE stacks of Ships of the Line, slow, but definitely not beatable. rarely you can see some unescorted galleon and often it hides in some port before you can catch it.

But i discovered that a privateer can't be attacked if on port. I was duped by FfH, where you can attack privateers even with ground units if on port. So we can hide ours on port then try to do some damage.

Still, i'm conviced that we have enough and we have better things to do. Yek is almost completely undeveloped.

3) plain wrong. you'll see it by yourself when you'll arrive there with tests, needless i say more on this. After AL you got the option to build both Infantry or SAM Infantry.
But if you got rocketry before, the other ground unit you can build is Machine gun, which is a siege, not a GP unit. Draft will provide the SAMs.

4) No! a simultaneous launch is not the way to go.
I has 5 transports fully loaded with mainly rifles and some SAM near Rostov, ecorted by 2-3 destroyers and a carrier, full loaded of fighters.
Another transport in Novo, full.
Another one coming from the E in case Agra is still indian or to take Coventry if it will be Chur's last city. To take Coventry and eliminate Chur causes less unhappiness for emancipation. But i think we must renounce to it anyway.
We're researching Ecology in that time, then Radio.
Side note: in my last attempts, G settled a city on the coastal desert hill between StPete and Rostov. It's reachable for a Tac in both cities and after captured we can base a Tac there for Dehli. Otherwise we need an ICBM, period.
turn1: ICBM for Agra and for Bombay, take both.
Tac W of Novo (launched from Novo), take the city.
if there's the new city i decribed above, Tac it and take it.
turn2: tac or ICBM Dehli, take it. The main stack can't reach any other city, heal.
turn3: tac SW of Dehli, take it.
turn4: tac the Westernmost city, take it, kill some units in the field before to gain some GG point, G gone.

Techs? In the first attempt G has AL and it was a hard bit, but i've found the Pentagon in Dehli. In the others he has RADIO. In case this happens in the actual game we can even consider to let him with a city to obtain the tech. But we'll see, there can be some downside. And the game can have totally different paths.

culdeus

Oct 18, 2009, 09:03 AM

I don't see a lot of discussion for things about this particular TS. I'll add some revised notes for final PPP and try to knock it out this evening.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 18, 2009, 11:26 AM

1) you almost convinced me about Nationhood. If we switch after Moscow will have IW and the SoL is finished or almost finished it won't be a great loss and we gain probably more than 17 gpt since our cities will be more developed by then and the civic cost will be higher.

I have been suggesting that Vladivostok build Oxford University after National Park rather than build Oxford University in Rostov; Vladivostok can run 13+ Specialists even with great (for example -12) Emancipation Unhappiness whereas Rostov's 11 Specialists would be reduced to 5 Specialists or even far less as a result of such great Emancipation Unhappiness.

To further strengthen the case for Nationhood and Oxford University in Vladivostok, I suggest that we build Globe Theatre in Rostov which will make it immune to Emancipation Unhappiness and thus it can run 11+ Specialists till Victory regardless of the level of Emancipation Unhappiness. In addition, especially with Sid's Sushi, it will have a huge Food plus that could be used to sustain a Rifleman draft (costs 1 Population) every turn or a SAM Infantry/Infantry draft (costs 2 Population) every other turn.

If we commit to Globe Theatre in Rostov to ignore Emancipation Unhappiness and perhaps draft there very often (every turn/every other turn), by default we must commit to building Oxford University in Vladivostok as there is no other reasonable choice for OU.

Running Nationhood also aids our Diplomacy with De Gaulle and Churchill, since Nationhood is their favourite Civic. A favourite Civic (assuming both AI and Player have it) adds +1 Diplomacy every 10 turns (perhaps up to an AI specific Cap) regardless of Game speed.

Another topic ...

The Statue of Liberty: I still don't quite understand why building The Statue of Liberty (2025H) in Moscow would be a net gain. Is a free Specialist in All five of our Cities in our Continent worth expending 2025H, even with the +100% Hammer bonus of Copper? Given that we may not have anything else better to build than Wealth, maybe it is worthwhile. It will apply to all of Gandhi's Cities except the one overseas, so it does seem to be worthwhile after all?

Sun Tzu Wu

unclethrill

Oct 18, 2009, 11:39 AM

I'm convinced on Nationhood. It sounds like a great way to build our military quickly.

As far as Privateers, I'm just about convinced on building more of them too. With the extra movement, safety in our port and the ability to upgradde (for a double dose of pimpin') them to destroyers, I think we can justify them just for the ability to destroy fishing resources.

unclethrill

Oct 18, 2009, 12:12 PM

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 18, 2009, 01:34 PM

2) I don't quote your various posts about privateers, but you are underestimating the AI capability to build and field frigates. dG moves with HUGE stacks of Ships of the Line, slow, but definitely not beatable. rarely you can see some unescorted galleon and often it hides in some port before you can catch it.

So far, the AI has built very few Frigates (only Mao Zedong has any yet and only 4). We now have only 7 Privateers and should have at least 13 more. Yekaterinburg should build 6 Privateers and 6 Work Boats this TS.

Our Privateers have four extremely important missions:

1) Prevent the AI from settling any overseas City Sites, not just ones we want; we have done reasonably well, but we failed to stop Roosevelt from settling three Islands, Gandhi two Islands (including one captured by Barbarians), De Gaulle one Island and Churchill one Island. Roosevelt has settled on two Islands with both a Sid's Sushi and Mining, Inc. Resource that would have been in our next tier of City Sites to settle. At least it appears that we will succeed in getting the remaining two City Sites in our primary tier of overseas City Sites.

2) Destroy AI shipping which our Privateers have done quite well despite the pathetically low number of Privateers we fielded (no more than 5 for at least 3 turn sets; shame, shame on us; I hold myself mainly responsible for the lapse; unclethrill in particular was so successful with the Privateers that I allowed myself to believe we had sufficient numbers of Privateers when I should have known we had only about half of what we really needed at the time; now with the AI starting to field Frigates we need even more, primarily more per stack to survive surprise, counter-attacks and even foreseen counter-attacks.

3) Destroy AI Fishing Nets. I see very few AI Seafood Resources without Fishing Nets, so I have to conclude we haven't destroyed many AI Fishing Nets. I know that I failed to target AI Fishing Nets, because destroying AI shipping probably hurts the AI more.

4) Blockading Ports. I think we have _not_ been very successful in Blockading Ports, primarily due to simply not performing the action. It will be hard to Blockade Mao Zedong's Ports, unless we destroy his lone Frigate protecting those Ports. All other AIs are subject to effective Blockades via Privateers, since they do not yet have anything to fight back with (for example Frigates). However, the time for blockading AI Ports may be quite limited, since more AIs will shortly be fielding Frigates.

Frigates: Privateer stacks should simply run away from Frigate stacks of 3 or more. Privateer stacks of 5 units can easily destroy a lone Frigate with the loss of one Privateer and possibly two, but rarely more; such a lone Frigate should be protecting a Galleon that would also be destroyed, otherwise we must question what destroying the lone Frigate would provide us in return. A Privateer stack of 5 units can defeat a stack of two Privateers, but it would exhaust the Privateer stack (leave all surviving Privateers severely damaged), and may not even totally destroy both Frigates; attacking stack of 2 Frigates with only 5 Privateers can be considered when the Frigates are protecting a Galleon and when potential counter-attacking units are too far away or consist of just 1-2 Caravels.

Ship of the Line: These vessels are no stronger than Frigates and are 1 MP slower than Frigates; they do have a specific +50% strength multiplier versus Frigates, but that bonus would not apply against Privateers; thus Privateers are probably more effective against a Ship of the Line than Frigates would be.

But i discovered that a privateer can't be attacked if on port. I was duped by FfH, where you can attack privateers even with ground units if on port. So we can hide ours on port then try to do some damage.

It is very good that Privateers are safe in our Ports. (They can't ever enter AI Ports and certainly not Barbarian Ports.)

What is FfH? "Fall from Heaven" module with Magic Professionals like Mages? Again, please spell out acronyms, especially when there is no apparent context that can be used to solve the acronym riddle.

Still, I'm convinced that we have enough and we have better things to do. Yek is almost completely undeveloped.

Well, I think we need three times our current level of just 7 Privateers; 7 Privateers is not much more than that needed for a single Privateer stack and we clearly can't do the four tasks outlined above with just 7 Privateers.

Yekaterinburg is our Military City; What development does it need to produce more Military units? A Factory and Power Plant come to mind, but we can't build those until we have Assembly Line. We should definitely build a Drydock (+100% Hammers for Aggressive trait), but that can't be started until we complete Steel. There are some buildings we could build here that help our Civ, but add nothing to Yekaterinburg's capacity to build Military units; is this what you mean? Of these a Harbor and then a Courthouse could be built after we have 20+ Privateers, but please nothing more that is unrelated to building Military units.

Sun Tzu Wu

unclethrill

Oct 18, 2009, 01:55 PM

FfH is fall from heaven. It is much more than a "module with Mages" but that is neither here nor there.

The more I see the arguments for more privateers, the more I like the idea. I really don't see the downside. If we can hold the AI down for a few dozen more turns with them then they seem to be a worthwhile investment. If there is something more important to build then I can see the argument against them but we have to decide before Cul plays because if we wait another TS or 2 to start the building of them the idea will be moot.

I cast my vote for building them and annihilating the AI's naval capabilities for a 30 -40 more turns so long as we are not compromising the other needs at this expense.

BLubmuz

Oct 18, 2009, 03:08 PM

Privateers: it would be nice to have them, but they are easy prey for Frigates and we have better to do. It's not true Yek doesn't need structures: market, grocer, obs at the bare minimum. We don't need many military, just some frigate and some rifle.

Our core cities must be fully structured before we start build seriously troops.

I'm almost sold on nationhood. Mainly for the reduced cost of civics and for the happiness and espionage benefits. Draft units is not a great choice: they lose half of the XP, starting with a measly 1XP. No we have no problems of production, we can maybe use it but not massively.

The WBs built in Rostov are a waste: over 11 turns of trip, with the related maintenance.
1 is ok, no more. After the CH Krasnoyarsk can provide the WBs for Briansk (the city we're goin' to settle W of it) with far less problems.

One last note for Culdeus, in the hope he will finally play his TS soon.
premise: i can't guarantee the actual game works like my test, but: i was researching Steel at 0% for some 10-11 turns. I've tried to see if G traded SM (he put it on the table even if monopoly) and tried to see if RP "made the deal work" and he asked 1115 gold. Tried with Chem and asked RP. This means he's researching Chem, since both techs have the same cost. doing the trade when we reach that sum in Culdeus TS will avoid G having Chem too soon and we maybe gain also some (few) gold.

Then we can complete Steel (3-4 turns to go at 0) and double bulb Physics.
Yes, switching the eng to a sci in the very first turn of Culdeus' TS we're almost assured we'll have a GS in Rostov. Once we have that GS. we must switch all the Scientists to Merchants, otherwise we'll not pop a GM in time for Sushi.
Running so many Merchants will also help our reserch probably better than running Scientists.
I used this path:
Steel
Physics (double bulb)
traded for Demo
Railroad
Bio (half bulb) > Medicine
Electricity (half bulb)
traded for Communism (at least an Intelligence agency in Moscow will help)
Combustion > Flight
Fission, Rocketry

Statue of Liberty. Yes, by the time we can build it, Moscow have nothing better to do than build whealth and it can be done in some 8-9 turns after the IW. I never missed it, in any test. Once we start it, we can use the GE to start a GAge (10 turns) and once completed (still in GAge) revolt to NH and FM at once.
If Churchill doesn't trade Demo to us for Astro+chem, G would trade it for Steel and a few gold. Steel is almost a dead end tech, so we can give it better than Steam, which opens AL.

OU: The Globe in Rostov can be a good idea, but Vladi's prodution is so slow, even with Mining Inc that it will be delayed by some 20 turns. We must evaluate this.

One more note for Culdeus: move a rifle from StPete to meet the galleon together with the settler. If you bring the galleon inside Bombay, you'll save 1 turn.

Another thing on StPete. I built the Hermitage and a Mosque there once the marble was hooked. they pay-off, since in some 30 turns the hill 2W will come under its influence and so the FP S of the hill and the riverside ivory.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 18, 2009, 06:35 PM

I am also starting to buy into the argument for OU in Vlad and GT in Rostov. My only question is how much delay (and beakers lost) is going to be if we have to wait until the NP is finished to derive the benefit.

Excellent question! Let me answer by asking this question in another way ...

How much short-term Beaker loss are we willing to sustain for two Great Person Farms that are immune to Emancipation Unhappiness? Gandhi is already running Emancipation and the other AIs are likely to follow shortly. Emancipation Unhappiness could almost shut down Rostov with Oxford University whereas it will continue running at full capacity with Globe Theatre. This tipping point could be coming sooner than we think.

We need two more Universities to build Oxford University:

We can't build Oxford University until two more Universities are built, and this alone is likely to take a full TS. In my opinion, it would be foolish to build a University in our Military City Yekaterinburg because we can do it in 5t and then build Oxford University in Rostov sooner where it will be doomed to stagnate under Emancipation Unhappiness anyway. On the other hand, building a University in Yekaterinburg in 5t to start Oxford University in Vladivostok much earlier would be make sense, but it should be timed to complete with the 4th University (probably in Yakutsk).

Oxford University in Rostov will be doomed:

So, I think Oxford University in Rostov will be doomed after it provides some measure of extra Beakers of quite significant, but declining amounts until it can't support hardly any Specialists due to Emancipation Unhappiness. I really don't think the Beakers lost by building Oxford University later in Vladivostok will matter a great deal, but the loss will likely be very significant.

Somewhat Lame Answer, Just build Oxford University in Vladivostok ASAP:

So, I'd say just build Oxford University in Vladivostok as soon as possible, even starting before National Park and possibly completing after National Park just to get Oxford University in Vladivostok operating with National Park at the earliest possible moment. Again, we could burn a Great Engineer to complete National Park in Vladivostok and build Oxford University with +100% Hammers via Stone.

Even trading Replaceable Parts to Gandhi for Scientific Method makes sense now to get Biology and thus National Park as soon as possible.

We must immediately run 11 Scientists in Rostov to hasten Great Scientist generation, so we can generate two more Great Scientists that will be enough (including the GS we have and the SM trade with Gandhi) to bulb both Physics (free GS) and then quickly bulb Biology. This will probably happen while we finish Steel and are nearly finished with Railroad.

Biology in potentially just 22t:

Assuming we run 11 Scientists in Rostov, we generate 102 GPPpt. The next Great Person will be generated in 9t (t165) with 36 GPP overflow and the following Great Person will be generated after another 1350 GPP are accumulated in another (1350 GPP - 36 GPP overflow) / 102 GPPpt = 13 turns. Thus, given the SM for RP trade with Gandhi, GS generation in the next two GP generations, we will complete Biology in 22t (t178) via primarily GS bulbing.

Building National Park in Vladivostok in 13-15t:

National Park is 405H and with 6P, Vladivostok can work 4F2C, 4F1C, 1F4H, 1F4H, 4H & 4H for 16 Base Hammers, 8 Hpt for Industrious trait, 4 Hpt for Forge for a total of 28 Hpt or 31 Hpt with a Engineer 2H free Specialist. The National Park would be completed in 405H / 28 Hpt = 15 turns without an Engineer or 405H / 31 Hpt = 13 turns with an Engineer and just 2H overflow from the previous build.

Building Oxford University in Vladivostok in 11-13t:

Oxford University is 540H and with 6P, Vladivostok can work 4F2C, 4F1C, 1F4H, 1F4H, 4H & 4H for 16 Base Hammers, 16 Hpt for Stone, 8 Hpt for Industrious trait, 4 Hpt for Forge for a total of 44 Hpt or 49 Hpt with a Engineer 2H free Specialist. Oxford University would be completed in 540H / 44 Hpt = 13 turns without an Engineer (or 12t + 12H OF) or 540H / 49 Hpt = 11 turns with an Engineer and just 1H overflow from the previous build.

Sun Tzu Wu

unclethrill

Oct 18, 2009, 06:51 PM

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 18, 2009, 07:19 PM

Privateers: it would be nice to have them, but they are easy prey for Frigates and we have better to do. It's not true Yek doesn't need structures: market, grocer, obs at the bare minimum. We don't need many military, just some frigate and some rifle.

BLubmuz, you are a minority of one on this issue, so far. greatbeyond, unclethrill and I, all agree to add significantly to our Privateer fleet, especially in this TS. culdeus, Mesix & Sweetacshon haven't stated an opinion (recently) either way as far as I recall. unclethrill believes the Privateers can be effective for about two more turn sets. I believe they can be effective longer, but their effectiveness decreases as more AIs field more Frigates.

I'm convinced that our Privateer fleet will become more and more successful as we double and triple the current level of 7 Privateers. It is entirely possible to get another Great General by accumulating just 77 more experience points which is less than 4 points per the 20 Privateer target level. As long as we avoid direct confrontation with Frigate stacks, and always end movements just out of range of any Frigate, we shall fear no Frigate. When Frigates and Ships of the Line become too thick in some areas, we can simply move our Privateers to areas with fewer enemy Frigates and Ships of the Line. When there is truly nowhere a Privateer stack can safely travel, we'll just send them to the nearest Port and they can wait till Combustion and be upgraded to (often highly promoted) Destroyers.

The more damage we can inflict on the AIs with Privateers, less strong they will be when we make our DoW! So far we have lost only 3 Privateers, but we have sunk a dozen or so Galleys and several dozen Caravels. Our Privateer loses will increase and must be replaced with new ones, but each AI will suffer more in both lost Seafood Nets, Galleys, Caravels and Galleons. Also, we may still effectively blockade AIs that still lack Frigates. We can also field enough Privateers to keep our second tier and even third tier City Sites clear of AIs (even though we have no current firm plans to settle either one, though I still have hopes we will settle the second tier of five Cities.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sweetacshon

Oct 18, 2009, 07:42 PM

My stance has always been to push privateers as far as they will go. Other than goading the barbs, it seems to be the only way to war against the AI without being at war. They still have alot to do, and can outrun frigates, so it seems like a no-brainer to push the advantage. I'm not suggesting anything about Blubz here :p We certainly don't need land units sitting idly, and while market/grocer are useful, are they necessary yet? The obs... surely not? Use the military pump as it is intended.

Nationhood, GT in Rostov, OU in Vlad: Yeah, this all sounds very good. Uncle raises a good point on workers for the preserves. How many total worker turns, how many workers are in the vicinity, etc? If it's 22 turns til the NP can start to be built, and OU will take 11-13, thats about 9-11 turns to get 5 unis in for perfect OU then NP construction in Vlad. Is this possible?

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 18, 2009, 07:55 PM

Having not seen the save lately, I have to ask ...

Best case we can have the NP in 35 turns (22+13); how many forest preserves will we have at that point. We are basing our plans right now on having max specialists in Vlad but the FP have to be done to make that a reality.

We have four Workers on Vladivostok Island, 2 working on the 2nd Sugar (Jungle clear in 1t; Plantation in 3t more) and 2 working on a Lumbermill, complete in 1t. They have another Lumbermill and another Workshop to do, about 3t for 2 Workers each.

After that the 4 Workers have 9 Forest Preserves to build. They will take about 6t + 1t to move on them to complete, but we must have Scientific Method first. So 9 Tiles x 7t each is 63 Worker turns / 4 Workers = about 16 additional turns. Thus, there should be plenty of time to be ready in 35t.

Be careful with Forest Preserves on top of Lumbermills; stop 1t short of completing the Forest Preserve and finsh it only when both National Park and Oxford University are completed.

Sun Tzu Wu

unclethrill

Oct 18, 2009, 08:44 PM

Be careful with Forest Preserves on top of Lumbermills; stop 1t short of completing the Forest Preserve and finsh it only when both National Park and Oxford University are completed.

Sun Tzu Wu

Great point. I was contemplating how to have LM to get the hammers and have the FPs ready too. Remember, to stop one turn short you have to cancel the worker when it says 2 turns left.

Sweetacshon

Oct 18, 2009, 09:03 PM

Signposting these "1 turn left" might also be a good idea.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 18, 2009, 10:07 PM

Signposting these "1 turn left" might also be a good idea.

Perhaps you mean Alt-M to send a message in a certain number of turns?

So, one could command a Worker to build a Forest Preserve on top of a Lumbermill, observe the number of turns, tFP, to complete the Forest Preserve, and send an Alt-M message to be displayed in (tFP - 2) to stop the Worker in Tile <N/S-x,E/W-y from City Center>. Assuming the turns to build a FP is 6, the Alt-M message should be set for 4t into the future, so we can cancel the Forest Preserve with 2t left, exactly as unclethrill suggested (which is the last turn the Worker action is still 100% cancel-able; by waiting one more turn [1 turn left], it becomes a crap shot where sometimes one is able to cancel the Worker action before he automatically finishes it and sometimes one is too late to cancel the Worker action).

Sun Tzu WU

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 19, 2009, 12:42 AM

City Specilization:

Our core cities must be fully structured before we start build seriously troops.

We should specialize Cities when that makes sense; it makes to have the City with Heroic Epic specialize in building Military units.

Please explain what "core cities must be fully structured" means. I can guess that core Cities means our first six Cities, but some of these Cities aren't so good, so maybe they aren't "core". Is Yakutsk a "core" City? Some Cities are just so Commerce poor that building either Research multiplying or Wealth multiplying builds simply has insufficient Research/Wealth return on the Hammer investmest.

Nationhood:

I'm almost sold on nationhood. Mainly for the reduced cost of civics and for the happiness and espionage benefits. Draft units is not a great choice: they lose half of the XP, starting with a measly 1XP. No we have no problems of production, we can maybe use it but not massively.

Yes, drafting does result in half the normal amount of experience points, but a drafted Rifleman costs 0 Hammers and 1 Population that often grows back in a few turns.

The best way for us to draft a Rifleman and get at least 2 experience points is to build The Pentagon and draft in a City with Barracks. The other ways: settled Great General, Vassalage and Theocracy are all impractical for SGOTM-10.

Work Boats:

The WBs built in Rostov are a waste: over 11 turns of trip, with the related maintenance.
1 is ok, no more. After the CH Krasnoyarsk can provide the WBs for Briansk (the city we're goin' to settle W of it) with far less problems.

The Work Boats can be more efficiently built in Yekaterinburg in 1t each staggered between 1t builds of Privateer. 2 Work Boats built in Yekaterinburg can arrive in Krasnoyarsk in 9t and 10t respectively; 3 Work Boats built in Yekaterinburg can arrive in the future Briansk in about 9t each.

You make a good point that each Work Boat costs 1 Wpt for excessive unit maintenance plus 1/2 Wpt for excessive units outside of Cultural Boundaries. However, the Work Boats are built in Yekaterinburg and delivered far faster than they could ever be built locally. I consider the maintenance costs well worth the consequential fast Growth in these two Cities.

I counter that we must sent at least two Work Boats built in Yekaterinburg, one for each of the two Cities, if not all 5 Work Boats.

culdeus' TS:

One last note for Culdeus, in the hope he will finally play his TS soon.
premise: i can't guarantee the actual game works like my test, but: i was researching Steel at 0% for some 10-11 turns. I've tried to see if G traded SM (he put it on the table even if monopoly) and tried to see if RP "made the deal work" and he asked 1115 gold. Tried with Chem and asked RP. This means he's researching Chem, since both techs have the same cost. doing the trade when we reach that sum in Culdeus TS will avoid G having Chem too soon and we maybe gain also some (few) gold.

How can you expect culdeus to play his TS, before we have a consensus concerning whether or not to build more Privateers? Privateers should be built in Yekaterinburg this TS and the next TS almost exclusively. Either we continue the Privateer War with the commitment of 6-9 Privateers this TS and 6-9 Privateers the next TS or we just recall our tiny 7 Privateer fleet back to our Ports right now.

I don't quite understand what trade you want culdeus to do. It may be clearer to write it out in a series of distinct, precise steps.

Great Merchant

Then we can complete Steel (3-4 turns to go at 0) and double bulb Physics.
Yes, switching the eng to a sci in the very first turn of Culdeus' TS we're almost assured we'll have a GS in Rostov. Once we have that GS. we must switch all the Scientists to Merchants, otherwise we'll not pop a GM in time for Sushi.
Running so many Merchants will also help our reserch probably better than running Scientists.

We need another Great Scientist, because we want to bulb Biology with 2 Great Scientists and not just one.

Also, the time it takes to Research Medicine should be plenty of time to generate a Great Merchant.

Res. (Research path):

I used this path:
Steel
Physics (double bulb)
traded for Demo
Railroad
Bio (half bulb) > Medicine
Electricity (half bulb)
traded for Communism (at least an Intelligence agency in Moscow will help)
Combustion > Flight
Fission, Rocketry

Why didn't you use more Great Scientist bulbs? I understand that the cost of generating Great People rises quickly, but I have calculated that we will have at least 2 Great Scientists each to bulb Physics, Biology, Electricity and Fission. Also, 1-2 Great Scientists may available to bulb Flight and 1-2 Great Scientists may be available to bulb Ecology which you don't appear to list.

The Statue of Liberty and trading for Democracy:

Statue of Liberty. Yes, by the time we can build it, Moscow have nothing better to do than build wealth and it can be done in some 8-9 turns after the IW. I never missed it, in any test. Once we start it, we can use the GE to start a GAge (10 turns) and once completed (still in GAge) revolt to NH and FM at once.
If Churchill doesn't trade Demo to us for Astro+chem, G would trade it for Steel and a few gold. Steel is almost a dead end tech, so we can give it better than Steam, which opens AL.

Trading Astronomy and Chemistry sounds crazy, even to Churchill, because he can trade it to other AIs and our Privateer fleet will suffer for it. Democracy is a dead-end Technology; its only useful to build The Statue of Liberty. That price (Astronomy and Chemistry) is too high, let Moscow build Wealth instead.

Globe Theatre in Rostov and Oxford University in Vladivostok:

OU: The Globe in Rostov can be a good idea, but Vladi's production is so slow, even with Mining Inc that it will be delayed by some 20 turns. We must evaluate this.

I have shown in a previous post that Vladivostok can build National Park in 13t and Oxford University in 11t with just Population 6, two Sugar Plantations, two Grassland Workshops and two Plains Hill Lumbermills. Furthermore, it may be possible to build most or all of Oxford University in Vladivostok before Biology is completed/National Park can even start.

culdeus' TS again - moving Rifleman:

One more note for Culdeus: move a rifle from StPete to meet the galleon together with the settler. If you bring the galleon inside Bombay, you'll save 1 turn.

The Settler is due in 4t, so start the Rifleman moving maybe 1t in advance to compensate for his slower movement; rather obvious, but I've been 1t too slow at least once in getting a Military unit to the Galleon compared to when the Settler arrived.

Beating back Gandhi's Culture:

Another thing on StPete. I built the Hermitage and a Mosque there once the marble was hooked. they pay-off, since in some 30 turns the hill 2W will come under its influence and so the FP S of the hill and the riverside ivory.

So, we can finally beat back Gandhi's Culture from within St. Petersburg. Excellent! Obviously, at least two Islamic Temples were built to permit construction of the Mosque.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 19, 2009, 02:19 AM

You'll never convince me about privateers. A couple more, stop.
Any city with Sushi and mining inc will be a monster for specialists. Only few cities with already great food can be avoided for Sushi: Krasno and Bryansk. Structuring cities will grant them to run specialists after Emancipation and it will provide other benefits, like happiness from market and health from grocer. And the output will be better while running at 0 research. Not to mention when we'll run merchants, after Sushi.
Rostov *must* run all merchants after next GS if we want Sushi by the time we'll complete Medicine. We'll have a GS for any needed bulb.

As you can see in a previous post of mine:

Steel
Physics (double bulb)
traded for Demo
Railroad
Bio (half bulb) > Medicine
Electricity (half bulb)
traded for Communism (at least an Intelligence agency in Moscow will help)
Combustion > Flight
Fission (half bulb), Rocketry

I used the bulbs but without GM, no Sushi: The GM popped in 1868, medicine in 1887, next GS in 1904. By then Sushi was spreaded and StPete took back its BFC.

Don't make Vladi too important: it will run some more specialists than other cities, period.
The OU ASAP in Rostov will make a huge difference.
In my last test i was able to complete rocketry in 1920 thanks to the strategy i proposed and to the trades i made. The AI was hopelessy behind. I was too short on units, 'cause i wish to build enough hospitals to build the Red Cross in Yek. And 'cause health was a problem, more than unhappiness, which shows only at war. But i managed to have radio in 1927, so no more problems for the Tacs: Yek can build 1 sub/turn, no need to use ICBM. I waited a bit to build troops and navy, so i finished G like in the previous test, but i got an already impressive number of ships, Tacs and SAMs in 1944, with Fascism in (Mount rushmore), Industrialism almost researched and only Christo Redentor to build.

I'll post some screenies of our cities. As you'll see i carefully spreaded the True Faith to all the cities, to gain happiness and to build temples, mainly to run priests.
Also you can see that Rostov is at the health cap with the factory and despite the Hospital.

BLubmuz

Oct 19, 2009, 02:44 AM

Trading Astronomy and Chemistry sounds crazy, even to Churchill, because he can trade it to other AIs and our Privateer fleet will suffer for it. Democracy is a dead-end Technology; its only useful to build The Statue of Liberty. That price (Astronomy and Chemistry) is too high, let Moscow build Wealth instead.By the time Chur will have Demo, all the other AI already have Astro and chem. To be accurate, all the other AI *already* have Astro.
But don't worry, in my last test he wasn't willing to trade it, so i traded Steel to G for it.
What do we care to give hopeless AIs some tech?
The true fight is with the other teams not with the AI.

culdeus

Oct 19, 2009, 11:45 AM

BLubmuz

Oct 19, 2009, 12:21 PM

It's pretty confusing to follow some of this. Lots of it is fairly forward thinking which is nice, but there are some short term issues as well like # of privateers yet to build. I tend to think that another 4-5 is a good number to cover the area East of the big island which has no support at all. Frigates are unlikely to come there for 25 turns or more. This would push the fleet to the north and west, generally over my TS attacking targets of opportunity, but in general avoiding frigates. I see no point in engaging frigates with privateers. They still hold good upgrade value later on.

I'd like to see where the national wonders are set to go. There are some conflicting posts where people assume certain things and at last count I've seen mentions of 4 different national wonders going into Moscow eventually.Since i'm accused to go upstream, i've tried a test with a bunch of privateers. The only good thing was the WB built in Yek and sent far NE for city #7. For the rest, same story: they're chased. An heroic one arrived to C5!!! 3 frigates was needed to destroy it after she lose (a privateer is female? :lol:) her mini stack.

But firstly i'd like to know which is the point on this strategy: all the AI have frigates but G, and we'll give him Chem around 1861. Please note the date, it's the last possible very important trade we'll do. Demo and Communism are interesting, but surely not strategic.

So, what do we do with those privateers? a stack of 3 doesn't pay its maintenance with the blockade, galleons are always well escorted... what's the point?

Let's build a couple more, let's try to squeeze the best from them but let's build structures. Building a University in Yek will let the OU in Rostov be completed by 1870 with a huge benefit for research. Please delete one of the 2 WB in queue there, keep the Obs and the CH. Switch to OU when it will be avaiable.

We have also to build 3 more settlers with related Rifles and galleons after some structure, say after WS in Moscow.

In most of my tests dG ask us to adopt NH.
In case this happen, accept. It's 1 turn of anarchy, but i think it's worth the great relations improvement with the big dog (for now :evil:).

Nat. Wonders:
Moscow: WS - start in 1849, IW - starts around 1857-60
StPete: Hermitage - start in 1850, Globe later, around 1900
Vladi: NP - probably around 1880
Rostov: OU - starts in 1858 if you're able to build Unis as i did.

unclethrill

Oct 19, 2009, 02:04 PM

So it appears we are at an impasse here on the following issues:

1. How many privateers to build?
2. Where to build OU?

What is the path out from here? Do we follow BLubz and his arguments or STW and his arguments?

We need a decision soon so that we can move on? These are important issues so they shouldn't be taken lightly but they also have to be decided soon.

So the way I see it is:

Arguments for Privateers:
1. Frigates for all are 25+ turns out
2. We can sink Galleon and Frigates
3. We can upgrade them to Destroyers
4. We can destroy fishing resources
5. We can blockade
6. We can protect potential new city sites
Arguments against Privateers:
1. All AI will have frigates soon
2. The cost to sink frigates is to high in privateer deaths
3. The cost to maintain them in port is high
4. The cost to upgrade to destroyers is too high
5. We can't generate enough money from blockades to cover support costs
6. Frigates escorting galleons negate the value of protecting sites with privateers.
7. We need more infrastructure in Yek

Arguments for OU in Vlad:
1. There will always be more scientists running in Vlad once the NP is done
2. Vlad is emancipation unhappiness proof
3. We still need to get two more uni before we can build OU so there is little delay over Rostov
4. GT in Rostov keeps all the specialists there happy so we have two large happy GP farms and GT and OU can't go in Rostov since NE is in Rostov
5. We can have OU and NP done in almost the same turns so OU immediately makes lots of research
Arguments for OU in Rostov:
1. We already have the infrastructure built in Rostov
2. It is our GP farm
3. We can have OU sooner there
4. We can put GT in StP for the culture boost

So those are the arguments for each option based on what I can gather from all the posts.

Can we just vote and then go with the majority opinion or what?

BLubmuz

Oct 19, 2009, 03:01 PM

Good analysis, UT!
Privateers
So you see my points about the privateers. Sure it would be nice to have a C5 destroyers, but the upgrade costs over 500 gold IIRC.

We can harrass almost safely for awhile only an AI: Roosevelt. He has the techs, but his iron is denied by a couple barbs, so he doesn't have frigates.

Let Yek build privateer/WB/privateer then Uni. Let's harrass G until we give him Chem (Chem+RP for SM) around 1861, then move to Roos and keep them there until they will inavoidably be destroyed.

Or keep some in our ports to protect from privateers the barbs or the AI can throw at us and accasionally hit some passing ship.

OU
There's another argument against the OU in Vladi:
We can't start build the NP sooner than in 1880-1882.
Then we need to build the OU. Building it sooner is close to impossible, we have also a Uni to build there.
We can have completed the OU in Rostov in 1870, and it doubles the 54 beakers generated by the 9 Sci for say, 30 turns. Then the 35 commerce the city generates when at 100% research for say, 10 turns.
We lose (roughly, the turns are approx.) 2000 beakers, almost a bulb. Why? Ask STW.

To add more: We'll have all the GSs and the GM we need, when it's strategic to have them, as you can see by the path i posted in this page. After it, the only use for GPersons are GAges. A bulb is almost nothing compared to the late game tech costs.

I see the the argument for the Globe in Rostov, since Vladi will gain happiness from FPs. But StPete? A cultural fight before the war starts will be won building there:
Hermitage (see my last post), Mosque, Broadway and Globe, added to the Sushi spread. We can also run Priest specialists to try a GProphet for the late game economy. The only limit is health, otherwise that city can be a monster.

When we'll switch to Emancipation (and we'll be forced to do so) Rostov can still run all its specialists, since the OU has 3 Sci. Otherwise it must run spies :crazyeye:.

One last point, just to let you know.
Once switched to FM (right after the SoL, in the last turn of a GE generated GAge) our economy will run fine, over 50% sustainable research despite so many Corps spreaded. But when we'll start to conquer cities we'll drop to 20% sustainable research. Luckily by then we don't need to research much, but we must be prepared to avoid strikes.
We'll have an enormous army, fully structured cities needed for production, health and happiness problems and an enormous empire to maintain.
Airports in any city, factories. Have you seen my screenies?

greatbeyond

Oct 19, 2009, 03:54 PM

I'm going to give my two cents, but I'll need some change to get through the rest of the week!

Privateers - I could go with a few less, but I think we need at least 3 stacks of 4 to 5, preferably 5. STW said we have 7 now and can build 6 Privateers and 6 WBs in Yekaterinburg.
If we could build 8 this turn that would give us 3 stacks of 5.
If we go with less, 3 stacks of 4 and be prepared to go to 2 stacks of 6.

One concern with upgrading, do all units get reset to 9xp if they have more than 10xp when upgraded?

One stack in the bay north of Washington can pillage 8 G per turn. Something neat I discovered, whatever cities the "pillage area" covers, contribute 2G per turn. What I can't remember was if there is more than one ship there, do they both collect the two gold. So one privateer more than pays for itself. What if they are not on the same tile?

Another stack in the bay west of Xian will get 6gpt from Mao.

A third stack East of Lyons, will get at least 6 gpt and maybe 8gpt.

Oxford - I think it should go in Vladivostok and Globe go in Rostov.

BLubmuz

Oct 19, 2009, 05:32 PM

greatbeyond

Oct 19, 2009, 05:59 PM

unclethrill

Oct 19, 2009, 06:39 PM

Good analysis, UT!

OU
There's another argument against the OU in Vladi:
We can't start build the NP sooner than in 1880-1882.
Then we need to build the OU. Building it sooner is close to impossible, we have also a Uni to build there.
We can have completed the OU in Rostov in 1870, and it doubles the 54 beakers generated by the 9 Sci for say, 30 turns. Then the 35 commerce the city generates when at 100% research for say, 10 turns.
We lose (roughly, the turns are approx.) 2000 beakers, almost a bulb. Why? Ask STW.

This part confused me at first. But now I see. If we delay OU by building it in Vlad, then we will lose approx. 2000 beakers the equivalent of 1 bulb.

To add more: We'll have all the GSs and the GM we need, when it's strategic to have them, as you can see by the path i posted in this page. After it, the only use for GPersons are GAges. A bulb is almost nothing compared to the late game tech costs.

Let's build a couple more, let's try to squeeze the best from them but let's build structures. Building a University in Yek will let the OU in Rostov be completed by 1870 with a huge benefit for research. Please delete one of the 2 WB in queue there, keep the Obs and the CH. Switch to OU when it will be avaiable.

Okay so, OU will maybe last longer if we build it in Vlad but that longer life is not of use to us because we will already have the techs that we need to fight the war. If we delay the building we will lose about 2000 beakers over the 30 turns difference in when we can have it in Rostov vs. Vlad. That is 1 more bulb or half a tech. I think getting those beakers sooner is more important than the longer term return. We made a similar mistake in the last SGOTM by delaying OU and it was a big factor in us losing that one. We need OU ASAP.

I vote for OU in Rostov as soon as possible. This also helps SP to push it's borders and keep it's pop happy by freeing up GT to go there. This will lead to the ability to run 2 solid GPFarms (Rostov, SP) in the short term and then bringing on the 3rd in Vlad in a few TSs.

To make this a reality, we need to get the rest of the universities finished. Which leads me to my next post ...

unclethrill

Oct 19, 2009, 07:09 PM

My point isn't to; build them because they'll pay for themselves, that is just a bonus. There is still work they can do and if the AI tries to attack a stack they will fail unless we are outnumbered 2 to 1. Sooo,

They help pay for themselves,
they pillage and destroy AI improvements,
sink enemy shipping,
they can be upgraded to a unit we will need,

If they are in our port, can the AI "see" them?

What's the point in building ships which pay for themselves? We did well in destroying galleys.
Mao had frigates: how long a stack can last? Only roos can be a decent source. But i don't see why waste hammers on such a thing, now. Well done for the past. period. Historical era closed.

One concern with upgrading, do all units get reset to 9xp if they have more than 10xp when upgraded?

Good analysis, UT!
Privateers
So you see my points about the privateers. Sure it would be nice to have a C5 destroyers, but the upgrade costs over 500 gold IIRC.

We can harrass almost safely for awhile only an AI: Roosevelt. He has the techs, but his iron is denied by a couple barbs, so he doesn't have frigates.

Let Yek build privateer/WB/privateer then Uni. Let's harrass G until we give him Chem (Chem+RP for SM) around 1861, then move to Roos and keep them there until they will inavoidably be destroyed.

Or keep some in our ports to protect from privateers the barbs or the AI can throw at us and accasionally hit some passing ship.

But firstly i'd like to know which is the point on this strategy: all the AI have frigates but G, and we'll give him Chem around 1861. Please note the date, it's the last possible very important trade we'll do. Demo and Communism are interesting, but surely not strategic.

Let's build a couple more, let's try to squeeze the best from them but let's build structures. Building a University in Yek will let the OU in Rostov be completed by 1870 with a huge benefit for research.
We have also to build 3 more settlers with related Rifles and galleons after some structure, say after WS in Moscow.

In most of my tests dG ask us to adopt NH.
In case this happen, accept. It's 1 turn of anarchy, but i think it's worth the great relations improvement with the big dog
.

Okay, here is the second part of my decision:

1. Upgrading Privateers is too expensive. We can't use and won't have the amount of wealth needed to turn the privateers into Destroyers later on. Plus the loss of experience so future promos will be a loooong way off.
2. All the AI except G have the techs for Frigates and only Roos is short the needed iron but that is only a trade away. (for both). With all those frigates rolling, privateers are useless. I don't really see spending all those hammers so that we can throw 2 or 3 privateers at a frigate just to sink it and then have all those hammers go down the drain.
3. They can't effectively blockade if we are spending our entire time running from dG's frigates (he had a unit build prob of 35IIRC so he will have lots of them sooner than later. )
4. Mao and dG are starting to really grow and will likely take on church(already done) and Roos and will grow that much stronger so we need to concentrate on growing our ground forces to protect against a potential DoW from one or both.
5. We need to get the infrastructure done to support all the cities we will be taking over. This means unis, obs for research now and markets, grocers for happy and healthy now and later.

So, I vote for maybe a couple more privs out of yek but that's it. Those hammers we invest will give us little or no more return. We need to get the uni in Yek so that Rostov can get OU in soon. We have had the technology for it since turn 25 and we are still delaying it. We can't wait longer.

Privateers are what has to give. The cost to support them is break-even with the return from blockades (which we can't even be sure we can do based on patrolling frigates). They are too expensive to upgrade to destroyers so once we finish pillaging with them we may as well disband them to save the support cost. That is too much hammer waste.

Every hammer and every beaker we make right now is important and we can't afford to waste either. Delaying OU is wasting beakers and building privateers is wasting hammers. If we want to have a chance to win we need to look forward and not back. The AI we need to worry about right now and moving forward are dG and Mao. They are ramping up for a big war and we need to be ready to take the war to them before they bring it to us.

We need research and ground troops. Building OU soon gets us research and getting the needed infrastructure in the cities will allow us to draft/build the troops we will need very soon.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 19, 2009, 08:32 PM

More Privateers!

Privateers
So you see my points about the privateers. Sure it would be nice to have a C5 destroyers, but the upgrade costs over 500 gold IIRC.

BLubmuz, there is already a four person majority (greatbeyond, unclethrill, Sweetacshon and Sun Tzu Wu) in favor of a massive Privateer buildup. You alone stand against it. Mesix has expressed no opinion. culdeus has expressed no opinion either way as far as I can tell.

You have had plenty of time to reconsider your opinion or submit convincing evidence that a continued Privateer War is doomed to fail. We are going ahead with a massive Privateer buildup and Warfare:

Privateers are currently masters of all the Seas. Our Privateers can easily avoid Mao Zedong's 4 Frigates which amount to gnats as long as our privateers stay out of their range. We have at least 2-3 TS and probably more where Privateers still dominate before there are too many AI Frigates in too many places for Privateers to be effective.

We can harrass almost safely for awhile only an AI: Roosevelt. He has the techs, but his iron is denied by a couple barbs, so he doesn't have frigates.

This is an important fact; we can harass Roosevelt with Privateers until he gains access to Iron or completes Combustion!

Could we effectively disrupt AI sources of Iron so they can't build Frigates? Maybe Spies could perpetually destroy an AI's Iron Mine and/or its Route?

We don't need to "harass almost safely"; we will lose Privateers. Even if we lose all our Privateers, our continued Privateer War will be a success as long as we continue to pillage Seafood Nets, sink AI Ships, blockade Ports and protect our 2nd and 3rd tier City Sites.

We aren't building Privateers fast enough:

We should build 6 Privateers and 5 Work Boats and start a 7th Privateer in Yekaterinburg in this TS.

Build Privateers after completing Banks in both Novgorod and Yaroslavl'.

This will bring our Privateer fleet up from 7 to 14 in one TS and three incomplete Privateer builds.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 19, 2009, 09:14 PM

Okay, here is the second part of my decision:

1. Upgrading Privateers is too expensive. We can't use and won't have the amount of wealth needed to turn the privateers into Destroyers later on. Plus the loss of experience so future promos will be a loooong way off.

Expensive, but too expensive. We can build Wealth; When we stop Research we will gain a significant source of Wealth, especially when Research was 50% or better; we can capture Cities for the pillaging Wealth. Any Privateers with more than three promotions don't need more, so the reset down to 10 XP is irrelevant.

2. All the AI except G have the techs for Frigates and only Roos is short the needed iron but that is only a trade away. (for both). With all those frigates rolling, privateers are useless. I don't really see spending all those hammers so that we can throw 2 or 3 privateers at a frigate just to sink it and then have all those hammers go down the drain.

False, only Mao Zedong and Roosevelt currently have both Astronomy and Chemistry and Roosevelt lacks Iron, so currently, only Mao Zedong can field Frigates.

3. They can't effectively blockade if we are spending our entire time running from dG's frigates (he had a unit build prob of 35IIRC so he will have lots of them sooner than later. )

Only Mao Zedong has Frigates.

4. Mao and dG are starting to really grow and will likely take on church(already done) and Roos and will grow that much stronger so we need to concentrate on growing our ground forces to protect against a potential DoW from one or both.

Precisely, the reason we need to build numerous Privateers and hit De Gaulle hard right now. Mao Zedong is land-locked so he can't do much with his pathetic Navy anyway.

5. We need to get the infrastructure done to support all the cities we will be taking over. This means unis, obs for research now and markets, grocers for happy and healthy now and later.

I don't understand why we should build Research and Wealth multiplying buildings for Cities with low Research and Commerce output; It's an obvious waste of Hammers. Building Courthouse in all Cities on the other hand makes sense.

So, I vote for maybe a couple more privs out of yek but that's it. Those hammers we invest will give us little or no more return. We need to get the uni in Yek so that Rostov can get OU in soon. We have had the technology for it since turn 25 and we are still delaying it. We can't wait longer.

We need two Universities to build Oxford University. Stone is not yet connected to build OU faster. Oxford University in Rostov is a huge mistake because it will be severely hampered by Emancipation Unhappiness.

Privateers are what has to give. The cost to support them is break-even with the return from blockades (which we can't even be sure we can do based on patrolling frigates). They are too expensive to upgrade to destroyers so once we finish pillaging with them we may as well disband them to save the support cost. That is too much hammer waste.

You forgetting the Huge amount of damage we can yet inflict on the AIs without resorting to a DoW.

Every hammer and every beaker we make right now is important and we can't afford to waste either. Delaying OU is wasting beakers and building privateers is wasting hammers. If we want to have a chance to win we need to look forward and not back. The AI we need to worry about right now and moving forward are dG and Mao. They are ramping up for a big war and we need to be ready to take the war to them before they bring it to us.

Oxford University can be started in Vladivostok maybe 10t after it could be started in Rostov. Also, Rostov must be running maximum Scientist and only 3 Hpt, because we need Great Scientist generated as soon as possible to bulb. Rostov definitely can't be running an Engineer while building anything. The best place by far for Oxford University is Vladivostok

We need research and ground troops. Building OU soon gets us research and getting the needed infrastructure in the cities will allow us to draft/build the troops we will need very soon.

What do we need ground troops for? We need a DoW to use ground troops unlike using Privateers.

unclethrill, thanks for lucidly explaining your recent change of opinion on Privateers, but I can't agree with any of it and I have explained why above.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 19, 2009, 10:05 PM

OU
There's another argument against the OU in Vladi:
We can't start build the NP sooner than in 1880-1882.

We can complete National Park in 35t or 1878 AD.

Then we need to build the OU. Building it sooner is close to impossible, we have also a Uni to build there.

Vladistok will complete its Library in 2t; it has 4 Workers that will soon complete a 2nd Sugar Plantation and 4H Lumbermill; they will go on and shortly complete a 2nd 1F4H Workshop and a 2nd 4H Lumbermill; they will be a quick burst of Growth while it builds a University. The point being made is the University and Oxford University will be completed in Vladistok much, much sooner than you would expect.

We can have completed the OU in Rostov in 1870, and it doubles the 54 beakers generated by the 9 Sci for say, 30 turns. Then the 35 commerce the city generates when at 100% research for say, 10 turns.
We lose (roughly, the turns are approx.) 2000 beakers, almost a bulb. Why? Ask STW.

To add more: We'll have all the GSs and the GM we need, when it's strategic to have them, as you can see by the path i posted in this page. After it, the only use for GPersons are GAges. A bulb is almost nothing compared to the late game tech costs.

We can have Oxford University at least partially completed by 1878; almost certainly completed by about 1885, at which point it will support 13+ Specialists. 13 Scientists * 6B = 78 Bpt and just the +100% OU would be 78 Bpt.

The early Beaker advantage of the 15t earlier completion of Oxford University is hard to compute without knowing the Unhappiness caused by other AI running Emancipation (Gandhi is the only AI currently running Emancipation), but let's say the effect is rather minimal and Rostov is able to support 9 Specialists with stable Growth. Thus, the early Beaker advantage is 9 Scientists * 6B = 54 Bpt * 15t = 810 Beakers. Sorry, I can't image how a 810 B short term boost can that good, because Oxford University will slowing decay due to Emancipation Unhappiness that could get so bad that it can't even supply its Population of Angry Citizen's much less any Specialists; I'm not sure how long it will take or whether it will really get this bad, but its something to think about.

Since Rostov probably can't run more the 9 Scientist and Vladivostok can run 13, it will take less 15t for Vladivostok to make up the 810 Beakers that Rostov was ahead.

Also, with Oxford University in Rostov, it can't have Globe Theatre, so it will be doomed to low Research output if any.

The choice is clear.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sweetacshon

Oct 19, 2009, 10:41 PM

I have already cast my votes. A few thoughts:
Perhaps we can at least agree (we seem to already) to crank out privateers this TS? Sun suggests 6 built with 3 in prod, and I'm fine with that, but let's come to some agreement on a number, because we've already agreed that they should be built, but of course there is no use in building just 2. We can (and should) revisit this subject after each TS. My vote is 6+3.

It was stated that we've had edu since t25, and I've always been for getting OU (:deadhorse:) in asap, but we've waited this long for it, why is there only now so a big rush that we'll put it in an inferior position? The only consideration is what will get us to Nukes (+a few) more quickly. Firstly:Then we need to build the OU. Building it sooner is close to impossible, we have also a Uni to build there.
We can have completed the OU in Rostov in 1870, and it doubles the 54 beakers generated by the 9 Sci for say, 30 turns. Then the 35 commerce the city generates when at 100% research for say, 10 turns.
We lose (roughly, the turns are approx.) 2000 beakers, almost a bulb. Why? Ask STW.These numbers are fairly loose, but admitted will be something like the real thing, although if it takes 5 turns to build the last uni, then, what 10 to build OU, isn't that only 20 turns of extra OU for Rostov? So maybe 1300:science: instead.. Can someone come up with a metric to measure the benefits of the Vlad OU using it's best case of ~35t incorporating the benefits of GT in Rostov, not having to build a uni in our military pump, and so on. It's a tough task. Another point is that I can certainly see the point of having 2 emanc/WW immune cities that can run specs to free up the larger cities to build :hammers: heavy nukes and so on. As I said, the metric is more complex than just beakers.

edit: x-post with STW, same deal :)

culdeus

Oct 20, 2009, 09:51 AM

Looks like this site took a dump last night late and I wasn't able to access it early this morning to get about half the TS in. At this point the rest of my day looks bad as I'm working a late shift tonight, and Wednesday is always my long day of the week. We are still ahead of all teams on turns so there's that. I will be open Thurs and Friday to play.

After looking around I do wonder if the hammers in the university and OL in a harassment war put together with a partner on the big island. Mao could be a major problem and slowing his research rate down with some targeted pillaging and maybe having the AI take over some cities might do us more good long term w.r.t. our performance versus other teams. OU+Univ equals roughly 6 rifles. And another thing is our land based troops have little experience. Bumping a few up to C2+Amphi would be very helpful both in war with Gandhi and others.

I just don't have a feel for the privateer thing one way or the other. I'd sure like to kill a few more ship based settlers, but I just don't know how many it would take. One dead settler is worth probably "4" privateers to kill in terms of nuke costs of hammers and turns among other things. Warrants mentioning. Using them to pillage now is just icing.

BLubmuz

Oct 20, 2009, 10:11 AM

No more Privateers. We're in 2 with strong arguments against them.
A massive privateer fleet doesn't anticipate by a single turn our tech race.

If you forget it, this is a tech race for Nukes instead of a Spaceship.

On contrary, they will delay the tech race if we do not structure our cities and they are already doomed.

I took my decision. No more privateers, but the one we're building in Yek.
We need galleons to move settlers, stolen workers and later executives.
We need structures to make our cities productive (in terms of wealth and science).

I haven't senn a single point about how this fleet of privateers will help our tech race.

If Culdeus doesn't post a revised PPP with my suggestions (!) in 12 hours i'll grab the save and i'll play second my PPP, which is the strategy i exposed, derived from intensive testing considering all the suggested alternatives.

No more delays, it's over a week we're discussing. I tested the privateers thing, playin' at my best and it's a failure, period.

GB, you can see privateers in "friendly" cities, but you can't attack them.

culdeus

Oct 20, 2009, 10:14 AM

I'd say grab and go. the next 24 turns are pretty well laid out. Really the next 36 are well laid out and then things will get interesting.

BLubmuz

Oct 20, 2009, 10:57 AM

The early Beaker advantage of the 15t earlier completion of Oxford University is hard to compute without knowing the Unhappiness caused by other AI running Emancipation (Gandhi is the only AI currently running Emancipation), but let's say the effect is rather minimal and Rostov is able to support 9 Specialists with stable Growth. Thus, the early Beaker advantage is 9 Scientists * 6B = 54 Bpt * 15t = 810 Beakers. Sorry, I can't image how a 810 B short term boost can that good, because Oxford University will slowing decay due to Emancipation Unhappiness that could get so bad that it can't even supply its Population of Angry Citizen's much less any Specialists; I'm not sure how long it will take or whether it will really get this bad, but its something to think about.

30 turns, at least, STW! But more without those beakers!

Since Rostov probably can't run more the 9 Scientist and Vladivostok can run 13, it will take less 15t for Vladivostok to make up the 810 Beakers that Rostov was ahead.

Also, with Oxford University in Rostov, it can't have Globe Theatre, so it will be doomed to low Research output if any.

The choice is clear.

Sun Tzu Wu

I have already cast my votes. A few thoughts:
Perhaps we can at least agree (we seem to already) to crank out privateers this TS? Sun suggests 6 built with 3 in prod, and I'm fine with that, but let's come to some agreement on a number, because we've already agreed that they should be built, but of course there is no use in building just 2. We can (and should) revisit this subject after each TS. My vote is 6+3.

It was stated that we've had edu since t25, and I've always been for getting OU (:deadhorse:) in asap, but we've waited this long for it, why is there only now so a big rush that we'll put it in an inferior position? The only consideration is what will get us to Nukes (+a few) more quickly. Firstly:These numbers are fairly loose, but admitted will be something like the real thing, although if it takes 5 turns to build the last uni, then, what 10 to build OU, isn't that only 20 turns of extra OU for Rostov? So maybe 1300:science: instead.. Can someone come up with a metric to measure the benefits of the Vlad OU using it's best case of ~35t incorporating the benefits of GT in Rostov, not having to build a uni in our military pump, and so on. It's a tough task. Another point is that I can certainly see the point of having 2 emanc/WW immune cities that can run specs to free up the larger cities to build :hammers: heavy nukes and so on. As I said, the metric is more complex than just beakers.

edit: x-post with STW, same deal :)What you both have not realized, is that Rostov will have problems for the emancipation penalty *after* we'll start the war. I can assure this, i was able to trade for all luxuries (incense from Mao and evry possible luxury) and with temple and theatre any city is far below the happy cap. Until the war starts.

My calculations are simply perfect, since i used the dates from my autolog.
OU in Rostov can be completed by 1870, NP in Vladi by 1890, but after ir we need to build the OU, at least 10 turns even with MI. This means exactly 30 turns.
Only from sci specialist we'll lose 54*30=1620 :science:. To be honest those are less, since we'll run merchants for 11 turns to pop the Gm for Sushi.
What i can't tell is the number of turns we'll run 100% science, but supposing 1/3, they are 10 turns with around 35 commerce (trade routes and tiles), so another 350 :science:. Rounding down for merchants instead of scientists this will let some 1800 to 1900 :science: lost. Almost a GS bulb.

We don't need science nor GPersons after the Nukes.
We already have all the needed GPersons by then and a single city will not contribute in a strategic way to our effort. No more.
Have you seen the screenies i posted? any city will run no less than 7-8 specialists and still growing if we want to. Structures are needed for their benefit and to support those specialists under Emancipation. What if we discover a resource in Vladi BFC? we don't hook it to run one more loosy free specialist when we're running tons of them in the other cities?

Stop this, come with solid arguments (but you can't) or accept my proposal.

After Nukes are in, a GS can bulb 1 turn of research @100%. What do i care? well, if he can bulb Ecology, welcome, but we'll use the GPersons for GAges. Any Gperson.
Only a doubt for a possible GProphet for the Islamic Shrine.

Yek build queue for next TS will be: privateer, WB, galleon to gather that GG and settle him in Novo. every turn we wait are 3 base beakers lost. And they count at this stage.

BLubmuz

Oct 20, 2009, 11:10 AM

False, only Mao Zedong and Roosevelt currently have both Astronomy and Chemistry and Roosevelt lacks Iron, so currently, only Mao Zedong can field Frigates.
Sun Tzu WuPlease explain me why i'm continously chased by french frigates in my tests. dG has the techs and the iron. rest assured.

Can i know how this absurd privateers thing can help our tech effort?

We can well use the ones we have until we'll give Chem to G. And we'll do.
Then we'll move them in american territory, where they are safe from frigates for long time. this is a screenie i took on a optimal use for them.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=231744&stc=1&d=1256058638

The ones are the only survivors, 4 and one of them is C5 granting us the West Point. positioned in this way they will gain 3 gold *5 any turn since they block 5 cities (the same actually, but the stacks are 2)

BLubmuz

Oct 20, 2009, 11:17 AM

I'd say grab and go. the next 24 turns are pretty well laid out. Really the next 36 are well laid out and then things will get interesting.
OK, i'll prepare my PPP in few hours. I'll play 'til 1856.

BLubmuz

Oct 20, 2009, 01:32 PM

my PPP:
specialists in Blue where i change something, otherwise, i let the "default" engineer

Cities
Moscow: settler (4) - Obs - CH - WS Switch at any moment it will be avaiable
StPete: Bank in 5 (starving, avoid drop) - Grocer, but switch to Hermitage when marble is hooked
Novgorod: Bank (3) - Lib - Uni - Levee
Rostov: WB (2) - Obs (10) - CH (8) the benefits of an observatory are far greater than a CH
fire the eng, hire another Sci
Yaroslav: Bank (6) Obs - Uni
after bank halt growth and hire 2 Merc
Yekaterinburg: Privateer - Galleon - WB - Uni - CH
Yakutsk: Uni - CH
Vladi: Lib - CH
Smolensk: CH (7) - WB - Market
Orenburg: CH
Krasnoyarsk: CH - WB - WB
fire the artist next turn, work unimproved clams+marble
City site 7: CH

Workers
2 near Novo road 1E, chop furs out of BFC, roads
Road-mine hills N of Yek
Road-lumbermill StPete forest.
Farms, watermill and windmill for Novo
After this every tile will be roaded in mainland.

Yakutsk: finish WS, road, road-mine GLHill
Vladi: Finish LM, road, finish plantation, roads, lumbermills.
Krasno: hook marble, mine/road hill
Smolensk/Orenburg: one road to stone, the other chop the GLF outside BCF, road WS, join the other to hook stone, then lumbermills and mine the hill in BFC.

Various
the knight pair will embark to pillage the north side of the barb continent and they will try to capture workers.

The galleon i planned in Yek will gather the GG. He will settle in Novo.

Research
Continue Steel at 0% for at least 10 turns.

Trades:
If like in my test, G will have SM, i'll wait some turn, then i'll trade him Chem and RP.
If Roos will have over 500gold by then (he already has over 300), i'll trade him RP.
Why? he's weak with a monster neighbour like Mao. Better keep him strong to avoid Mao becoming too strong. and over 500 gold are a huge sum.

If Demo comes on the table, i'll trade at best for it. In my tests often Chur would trade it for Chem+Astro, but even Steel to G or Roos can be a good trade (did it in my tests). He will soon be pleased, he would never be a threat. No more.
Steel to Roos for Communism is a good trade too.
As i said above, better keep him strong.

Refuse any demand, except resources. Even if dG asks for NH switch, refuse, it's too soon.
Watch for possible resources to trade (incense, pigs)
BTW, all the spices are under barb control. We should consider to take Sakae (after the indian war) to access them. Note: spices give +1 happy just hooked and +1 health with grocer. Huge!
switch the deal with G to sugar

Privateers
Harrass the area between Agra and Bombay.
Heal the injured in Oremburg moving there the M2 frigate.
Exactly the turn before i'll give G Chem (always if things work like in my test) i'll move all the stack to Roos lands. He lacks Iron and has no OB with the French and the Chinese (like G) thus our privateers will be safe inside American and Indian lands.

I hope to have listed all the things to do. But i'm sure you'll let me know if i forgot something :p

culdeus

Oct 20, 2009, 02:22 PM

What happens if we capture a barb city without a nuke and let the barbs retake it later before conquest VC?

unclethrill

Oct 20, 2009, 02:37 PM

It counts against us. IIRC, every city taken or retaken has to get a nuke first

BLubmuz

Oct 20, 2009, 02:43 PM

It counts against us. IIRC, every city taken or retaken has to get a nuke firstYes and with a direct hit. We can lose a city and no need to nuke it again, but we can't take it before to have nuked it. Not even on a peace deal.

unclethrill

Oct 20, 2009, 02:59 PM

Yes and with a direct hit. We can lose a city and no need to nuke it again, but we can't take it before to have nuked it. Not even on a peace deal.

Unless it is one of our original cities which have to be nuked before we can take back. In general, every city that becomes ours has to be nuked at least once.

BLubmuz

Oct 20, 2009, 03:51 PM

Unless it is one of our original cities which have to be nuked before we can take back. In general, every city that becomes ours has to be nuked at least once.I'm not completely sure about this. If we lose a city we probably need to nuke it before to recapture it. But don't worry. This will not happen ;)

unclethrill

Oct 20, 2009, 04:18 PM

I'm not completely sure about this. If we lose a city we probably need to nuke it before to recapture it. But don't worry. This will not happen ;)

That is what I said or at least meant. Any city that becomes ours and was in someone's possession at any point in the past must be nuked. Let's just nuke everything!

greatbeyond

Oct 20, 2009, 06:00 PM

No more Privateers. We're in 2 with strong arguments against them.
....
I took my decision. :hmm: No more privateers[/B], but the one we're building in Yek.
....
No more delays, it's over a week we're discussing. I tested the privateers thing, playin' at my best and it's a failure, period.
...

It is the agreement that a majority vote will decide in case of a tie:
Right now it seems to be 2 for no more,
1 for a lot more,
and two of us for somewhere in the middle.
I can live with a total of 12; 2 stacks of 5 and 1 stack of 2 for G or Roosevelt. I would also build them one after the other to get maximum use out of them.

No more after this TS unless there is a pressing reason. I feel strongly that Privateers are still very valuable. If we have only 7+1, we might as well not even build one more as we would only be able to put together 1 stack. As we lose them, the remaining become progressively more at risk, and will disappear like magic.
One stack of 5 will only be able to harass one AI as time progresses; Roosevelt, and he is the least of our worries.

Deployed as I proposed before.
"Another stack in the bay west of Xian will get 6gpt from Mao.
A third stack East of Lyons, will get at least 6 gpt and maybe 8gpt."

This is how I would do it until DG or Mao have too many Frigates, then we move to American waters.

Destroyer upgrades are 350 from Frigates, ~400 from Privateers, and 170 from a SotL. This is from the Civ reference on the site. It does not list Privateers so I had to interpolate the cost.

BLubmuz

Oct 20, 2009, 06:19 PM

It is the agreement that a majority vote will decide in case of a tie:
Right now it seems to be 2 for no more,
1 for a lot more,
and two of us for somewhere in the middle.

exactly, i don't see the majority strongly for lots of privateers

Deployed as I proposed before.
"Another stack in the bay west of Xian will get 6gpt from Mao.
A third stack East of Lyons, will get at least 6 gpt and maybe 8gpt."

Just a problem: both Mao and dG have already lots of frigates. We can see them. Why let them gain free XP?

This is how I would do it until DG or Mao have too many Frigates, then we move to American waters.

Destroyer upgrades are 350 from Frigates, ~400 from Privateers, and 170 from a SotL. This is from the Civ reference on the site. It does not list Privateers so I had to interpolate the cost.Frigate to Destroyer upgrade costs 463 gold. I can't tell you how much for a Privateer, they didn't survive until then.

It appears you haven't tested the war phase of the game, don't you? :p

I'm at the point (for the fifth time, since i've tried many strategies), that:
- G is gone,
- the nuclear blasts are cleared
- and i got all the Radio wonders.
Now i'll go further, to find a key for the final push.

No comments about my PPP yet.

unclethrill

Oct 20, 2009, 06:29 PM

PPP looks good to me.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 20, 2009, 06:56 PM

Goals of the Privateer War:

Can i know how this absurd privateers thing can help our tech effort?

The Privateer War doesn't need to help our Research rate for it to help us sooner.

A well executed Privateer War will keep the AI from spreading! If we had built a sufficient number Privateers there would be a few less AI Cities to capture. If we execute a Privateer War effectively we can deny the AI additional Cities. Every AI City we need to capture will delay our eventual Victory.

Here are some possible Games states when we complete Rocketry and Radio:

1) 40 AI Cities must be captured

2) 55 AI Cities must be captured

3) 70 AI Cities must be captured (AI captures all Barbarian Cities)

The Privateer War will give us a good shot game state #1. Far fewer Cities to capture will allow us to get our Conquest Victory much sooner.

There are also ancillary effects of Privateer War:

a) Pillaging Seafood Nets

b) Destroying AI Naval Vessels (AI loses vast numbers Hammers)

c) Protecting the City Sites we may yet wish to Settle.

Dealing with Frigate stacks:

Privateers will not run away from Frigates when we have sufficient numbers of Privateers (2-3 the number of Frigates in the pursuing stack):

Ambush the AI Frigate stack: We can assemble a stack of lower promoted Privateer in equal in numbers to the Frigates on a Shore for +10% Strength and let the AI "Suicide" its Frigates into our Stack. We will probably lose every attack, but each attacking AI Frigate will be exhausted (often below half strength) and our heavily promoted Privateers will easily destroy every such exhausted AI Frigate.

Thus, the Frigate stack is no longer chasing our Privateers; it has been deep six'ed (sunk).

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 20, 2009, 09:16 PM

Are we switching to 14 turn TS? 170 - 156 = 14.

my PPP:
specialists in Blue where i change something, otherwise, i let the "default" engineer

Cities
Moscow: settler (4) - Obs - CH - WS Switch at any moment it will be avaiable

Courthouse in the Capital? Are you nuts? :)

Settler 4t; Observatory 2t; Wall Street 9t

Wall Street can be started in precisely 6t, unless someone tinkers with the Citizens in Yaroslavl' delaying the Bank there.

StPete: Bank in 5 (starving, avoid drop) - Grocer, but switch to Hermitage when marble is hooked

Bank in 6/5t (recovering from Poison); build Wealth (help to complete Railroad sooner & found Mining, Inc.)

Novgorod: Bank (3) - Lib - Uni - Levee

Bank in 3t; build Wealth (not enough Commerce to justify a Library and University.

When Poison dissipates, return Floodplain Farm to Novogorod.

Rostov: WB (2) - Obs (10) - CH (8) the benefits of an observatory are far greater than a CH

If so, why are you building a Courthouse rather than Observatory in Moscow?

Work Boats should be built in Yekaterinburg, not Rostov.

Build Wealth - 3 Wpt (help to complete Railroad sooner & found Mining, Inc.)

fire the eng, hire another Sci

fire the eng, hire three Sci (to complete a GS in 9t and a 2nd GS in 22t = 13t later).

Yaroslav: Bank (6) Obs - Uni

Bank in 6t; Build Wealth (help to complete Railroad sooner & found Mining, Inc.)

after bank halt growth and hire 2 Merc
Yekaterinburg: Privateer - Galleon - WB - Uni - CH

You know that a majority of Team members (3 for; 2 against; 2 undecided) want at least 6 new Privateers this TS and they must be built in Yekaterinburg.

Privateer in 1t, Work Boat in 1t, Privateer in 1t, Work Boat in 1t, Privateer in 1t, Work Boat in 1t, Privateer in 1t, Work Boat in 1t, Privateer in 1t, Privateer in 2t, Privateer in 1t.

Yakutsk: Uni - CH

Vladi: Lib - CH

Absolutely NOT! Must build University here so Oxford University can built.

Library in 2t; University; Oxford Univesity; National Park.

Also need to micromanage Citizens here: After 1t, switch Citizen on PH Forest to unimproved (Jungle cleared) Sugar Tile for increased Growth; after Population 5 or 6, increase Hpt to complete University in a reasonable time.

Smolensk: CH (7) - WB - Market

Courthouse in 7t; build Wealth (help to complete Railroad sooner & found Mining, Inc.)

Orenburg: CH
Krasnoyarsk: CH - WB - WB

Will not even complete Courthouse in this TS, so perhaps the Work Boats should be built in Yekaterinburg.

fire the artist next turn, work unimproved clams+marble
City site 7: CH

Workers
2 near Novo road 1E, chop furs out of BFC, roads

Road 1-NW of Novgorod? Chop Forest in 2 Furs, OK; Furs already have Roads, where will 2nd Road be?

Road-mine hills N of Yek

Complete Farm in 2t; Complete Workshop in 3t; Windmill 1-N of Yekaterinburg (it can't even support one 0F Mine and already has one)

Road-lumbermill StPete forest.

Farms, watermill and windmill for Novo

1-SE of Novgorod might be better utilized as a 5H1C Workshop than a 1F3H1C Watermill.

After this every tile will be roaded in mainland.

Some of the Workers on our Continent need to be ships with Settlers that will found new Cities.

Yakutsk: finish WS, road, road-mine GLHill

After Road, move 1-NW on road and Chop Forest & build 2nd Workshop (1F4H Workshop has 1 Hpt more than 1F3H GH Mine).

Vladi: Finish LM, road, finish plantation, roads, lumbermills.

WG1: Complete 4H Lumbermill; Road; 1-NE, 1F4H Workshop

WG2: Complete Jungle Chop; build Sugar Plantation; move to 2nd PHF; build 4H Lumbermill.

Krasno: hook marble, mine/road hill

Complete Marble Quarry in 5t; build Road in 2t; 1-S, build 1F4H Workshop.

Smolensk/Orenburg: one road to stone, the other chop the GLF outside BCF, road WS, join the other to hook stone, then lumbermills and mine the hill in BFC.

Worker 12: Road in 2t; 1-N of Orenburg 1t; Road in 1t; 1-N, Road in 1t; build Stone Quarry in 3t.
Worker 13: Road in 2t; 1-N of Orenburg 1t; Road in 1t; 1-N, Road in 1t; build Stone Quarry in 3t.

Various
the knight pair will embark to pillage the north side of the barb continent and they will try to capture workers.

Galleon with Knight: load GG in Yaroslavl' & drop in Yekaterinburg; pick up new Knight; pick up Knight 4-N & 3-W of Parthian; go capture Workers on West Coast between Sakae and The Holy City.

The galleon i planned in Yek will gather the GG. He will settle in Novo.

Moscow has 41 Base Hammers versus Novgorod's 16 Base Hammers, so I question the choice to settle the GG here. What is the extra Galleon for? We have enough Galleons.

Research
Continue Steel at 0% for at least 10 turns.

After finishing 3 Banks we can do Research 40% (6 Wealth turns + 4 Research turns). We can easily complete Steel in 10t and complete about 1/5 of Railroad in the final 3t of the TS. This can be done by building Wealth in Rostov immediately, Novgorod in 3t; St. Petersburg in 5t; Yaroslavl' in 6t; Smolensk in 7t.

Trades:
If like in my test, G will have SM, i'll wait some turn, then i'll trade him Chem and RP.
If Roos will have over 500gold by then (he already has over 300), i'll trade him RP.
Why? he's weak with a monster neighbour like Mao. Better keep him strong to avoid Mao becoming too strong. and over 500 gold are a huge sum.

If Demo comes on the table, i'll trade at best for it. In my tests often Chur would trade it for Chem+Astro, but even Steel to G or Roos can be a good trade (did it in my tests). He will soon be pleased, he would never be a threat. No more.
Steel to Roos for Communism is a good trade too.
As i said above, better keep him strong.

Democracy is a dead-end Technology of little value to us; I still say its foolish to build The Statue of Liberty in Moscow when it could be building Wealth and thus permitting a much faster Research rate.

Refuse any demand, except resources. Even if dG asks for NH switch, refuse, it's too soon.

Too soon, because we want Bureaucracy for building Wall Street and Ironworks? Loss of Bureaucracy will not slow down building of Wall Street and Ironworks too much - maybe add 3t to each. OK, I agree, Nationhood should wait till Wall Street and Ironworks are completed.

Watch for possible resources to trade (incense, pigs)
BTW, all the spices are under barb control. We should consider to take Sakae (after the indian war) to access them. Note: spices give +1 happy just hooked and +1 health with grocer. Huge!
switch the deal with G to sugar

Privateers
Harrass the area between Agra and Bombay.

Some Privateer or Frigate should be sent to Smolensk to protect Whale Net/Work Boat. Work Boat should duck into Smolensk until the Net can be protected from the nearby Barbarian Galley.

Would be nice if Barbarians would capture Seattle, denying Roosevelt Iron and one less City for us to win a Conquest Victory.

Kill Barbarian Galley East of The Barbarian States near our damaged Privateer stack?

Heal the injured in Oremburg moving there the M2 frigate.
Exactly the turn before i'll give G Chem (always if things work like in my test) i'll move all the stack to Roos lands. He lacks Iron and has no OB with the French and the Chinese (like G) thus our privateers will be safe inside American and Indian lands.

We should hit De Gaulle as hard as possible before he can build Frigates.

Seattle may be slowly building a Worker to build a Iron Mine for Roosevelt.

I hope to have listed all the things to do. But i'm sure you'll let me know if i forgot something :p

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 20, 2009, 10:14 PM

Privateers:

It is the agreement that a majority vote will decide in case of a tie:
Right now it seems to be 2 for no more,
1 for a lot more,
and two of us for somewhere in the middle.

exactly, i don't see the majority strongly for lots of privateers

Precisely, because you don't want to see it the way it is. Until unclethrill switched to your side, you were alone in your conviction to build only token amounts of Privateers.

I see two members of the Team that want token amounts (1) of Privateers at best; that is hardly a majority when 3 members clearly want at least 6-8 Privateers this TS.

Deployed as I proposed before.
"Another stack in the bay west of Xian will get 6gpt from Mao.
A third stack East of Lyons, will get at least 6 gpt and maybe 8gpt."

Misinformation:

Just a problem: both Mao and dG have already lots of frigates. We can see them. Why let them gain free XP?

This is how I would do it until DG or Mao have too many Frigates, then we move to American waters.

You must be confusing some future date in your test with the current state of the Game.

De Gaulle currently wants Astronomy, so how can he have Frigates now? If you saw that De Gaulle had Frigates that was from your test Game.

I must assume you provided this false information without realizing it. In any case, unclethrill switched from building numerous Privateers to building few Privateers based in part on false information that several AIs had or could now build Frigates when only one AI (Mao Zedong) can currently build Frigates. He should have a chance to reconsider his decision on Privateer support.

Destroyer upgrades are 350 from Frigates, ~400 from Privateers, and 170 from a SotL. This is from the Civ reference on the site. It does not list Privateers so I had to interpolate the cost.

Frigate to Destroyer upgrade costs 463 gold. I can't tell you how much for a Privateer, they didn't survive until then.

I suspect that you didn't micromanage the Privateer fleet to maximize their use; you certainly did nothing to save the highly promoted Privateers, because all you needed to do is send them to one of our many Ports with their superior speed, yet not one survived!

Frustration:

It appears you haven't tested the war phase of the game, don't you? :p

I'm at the point (for the fifth time, since i've tried many strategies), that:
- G is gone,
- the nuclear blasts are cleared
- and i got all the Radio wonders.
Now i'll go further, to find a key for the final push.

That is great.

I just wish you would seriously consider plans that I have literally spent all my free time on the past week. You often bluntly reject plans without explanation or with very terse and vague explanations. I'm becoming frustrated with it; I'm quite sure other Team members are also frustrated when their arguments are disregarded or ignored.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 21, 2009, 04:29 AM

Are we switching to 14 turn TS? 170 - 156 = 14.No, just for this one ;)
Wall Street can be started in precisely 6t, unless someone tinkers with the Citizens in Yaroslavl' delaying the Bank there.
I've seen the citizen trick and i won't change it. WS can be started in 6, right, CH later.
With the Corps even the Capital needs a CH. Until then, 3 gpt are saved.
Bank in 6/5t (recovering from Poison); build Wealth (help to complete Railroad sooner & found Mining, Inc.)
I see, but i think a cultural powerhouse is what we need in the mid term. Some sacrifice in research is worth the result.
Bank in 3t; build Wealth (not enough Commerce to justify a Library and University.
a) Not completely right
b) Lib and Uni give also culture, are needed for the OU and the city will be as good as any other one
When Poison dissipates, return Floodplain Farm to Novogorod.
I already planned this.
Work Boats should be built in Yekaterinburg, not Rostov.
one in each, no more. the 2 more needed will be built in Krasno
fire the eng, hire three Sci (to complete a GS in 9t and a 2nd GS in 22t = 13t later).
you're forgetting that we need a GM before next GS if we want found Sushi when it will become avaiable
Absolutely NOT! Must build University here so Oxford University can built.
you don't read my posts! OU will go in Rostov, where can be started in 1859 or even sooner. In a way or another, we'll must switch to Emancipation when we'll start the war. We own 16 cities by then, not 2. We must look at any city, not just the important ones. By then, any city will contribute in the same way to research, thanks to Sushi specialists. That's why we need to structure them. Unless we don't want to spread Sushi widely and stuck with many size 8-9 cities.
In my tests i barely have time to build some unit here and there before the fireworks began

You know that a majority of Team members (3 for; 2 against; 2 undecided) want at least 6 new Privateers this TS and they must be built in Yekaterinburg.
Me and UT are against, GB and Culdeus are undecided. Who are the 3? I see only you in the roster. I can count Sweeta, but his points about OU are opposing to privateers.
Mesix is away, so he can't count and i can't remember to have seen something from him on this.
Mesix's last post is 09/26 and his last activity in CFC was in 10/05. How can he count?
Since we're 2-2-2 at best it's a tie. But the leader decides in case of a tie.
I'm the leader, guess what i decide? :p
Complete Marble Quarry in 5t; build Road in 2t; 1-S, build 1F4H Workshop.
The mine on the hill is a chop, better than a WS in short, right?
build Stone Quarry in 3t.
We don't need stone until next TS and it's not workable. a chop NOW will speed the CH, then they'll join for the quarry
Complete Farm in 2t; Complete Workshop in 3t; Windmill 1-N of Yekaterinburg (it can't even support one 0F Mine and already has one)
our workers in mainland have not important jobs to complete. that mine will be used later.
Moscow has 41 Base Hammers versus Novgorod's 16 Base Hammers, so I question the choice to settle the GG here. What is the extra Galleon for? We have enough Galleons.
Yes, and that's why Moscow will build Tacs instead of troops. The GG has better use in Novo
No, we don't have enough galleons. We'll need them to ferry captured workers, the 3 more settlers we'll build and later specialists. airports are a bit faraway ;)
In general, i see your point about building wealth.
But it's close to nothing without multipliers (market, grocer, bank).
While testing (i repeat this, probably) i've found i barely arrive to structure our cities before nukes arrive.
We have to decide about this:
1) build wealth in not yet structured cities
2) structure cities then, if possible, build wealth

Also, the cultural fight in StPete will pop the coal W of it before the war start. And it will avoid Indian culture spreading there, giving us "WYTJOML" in StPete. Tested this too.
I doubt you guys have tested as far and as long i did. I explored all the alternatives.
The best i managed was start building the first nuke in 1920, after almost all our cities has airports and any needed structure and the corps and religion were completely spreaded.
If you show me a strategy which can do better, i'll change my mind.
I don't wanna see vague benefits, i wanna see a date. Can we start build nukes earlier? And after them how can our cities remain productive?

BLubmuz

Oct 21, 2009, 04:57 AM

I suspect that you didn't micromanage the Privateer fleet to maximize their use; you certainly did nothing to save the highly promoted Privateers, because all you needed to do is send them to one of our many Ports with their superior speed, yet not one survived!I don't care they survive. Too expensive upgrade them, even a C5. Our destroyers start with 2 promotions and Yek will crank a modern naval unit every turn. Well, any unit in 1 turn, but nukes.I just wish you would seriously consider plans that I have literally spent all my free time on the past week. You often bluntly reject plans without explanation or with very terse and vague explanations. I'm becoming frustrated with it; I'm quite sure other Team members are also frustrated when their arguments are disregarded or ignored.You make me feel sorry for this, sincerely.
I konw you spend your energies and i know you're always very accurate in your calculations.
That's why i can't understand your "privateer mania", but it's probably due to the fact that you underestimate the AI.
Where are the benefits in wastin hammers in condemned ships? Better build wealth instead, that will anticipate our date.

And i'm negatively impressed by your point about the OU. I see the point in having the Globe in Rostov, but since we'll be *forced* to switch to Emancipation, it became useless. We have 15 more cities, some only 2-3 pop below Rostov, not only Rostov. The Globe (4 turns when we'll build it) can be built in StPete, just to pressure Dehli.

OTOH you seem not see my detailed point about the beakers lost not building the OU in Rostov. My numbers are sustained by tests, not by strange reasonings.

I asked how your "privateers strategy" can anticipate our date, i never received an answer.
You seem to ignore my point on beakers lost to wait OU in Vladi.

And you feel frustrated... how should i feel?

I repeat this: We need beakers and GPersons now, intending for now until 1900. After that date, "les jeux son fait".
Just to give you an example, i managed to research Industrialism in 5 turns: 3 @0, 2 @100.
De Gaulle currently wants Astronomy, so how can he have Frigates now? If you saw that De Gaulle had Frigates that was from your test Game.I know this:
When i move further W the privateers W of Bombay (once healed), i can see french galleons and frigates.
Is it my test? sure, it is, but it's very accurate. *Very* accurate.

BLubmuz

Oct 21, 2009, 07:18 AM

3 more points:

Sushi
with the research path i proposed, after next GS from Rostov, next GPerson must be a GM (1869) to found Sushi when we finish Medicine. We'll pay for his maintenance for some 20 turns and a GS will pop before then (1885). But we need the gold merchant specialists generate now and the OU will be completed in 1870 in Rostov, when we'll switch back to all Scientist specialists to gain the max from it (54 bpt only from specialists).

Statue of Liberty
We'll acquire the tech Demo around 1860-65.
Sure it's a dead-end tech, but we need it also for Emancipation, late in the game.
We can start a GAge (via GE) around 1870-75 to help build the wonder and to switch civics the very last turn to Nationhood and FM.
By then, Moscow will be fully structured, so we can build executives or wealth there.
The benefits: 5 cities (OK, not much, but the core) will continue to run the free specialist until the end game, despite the civics change.
I've said everything will become marginal after Nukes, but 6 free specialists in conquered indian cities don't make me sick.
So, let me see: let's suppose to arrive to Nukes in 1920. This means 40 important turns with 2 hammers+3 beakers/turn for 4 cities and 6 beakers for Rostov.
2*4*40=800 base hammers *1.25 (forge)=1000+2*40 (Moscow, IW)=1080.
(3*4+6)*40=720 base beakers *1.75 (Lib+Uni+Obs)=1260+6*40(Rostov, OU)=1500
And the game will be all but finished in 1920.
Do we arrive to Nukes early? how much? 10 turns are almost a dream.

Not already planned cities
We're currently producing the settler for the 7th -and last- planned site (see #3).
I see 3 more spots:
1) The one STW marked with #8 (but which i think is better delay to 10)
in a test G settled a city close, but in a horrible position. That site grants us 2 resources and it's good as any other else with the corps spreaded.
2) Another one marked by STW, E of Yaro, with whales and possibly 2 seafood with enough culture.
3) One more marked by STW, E of Yek with Sheeps and good production.

After the above mentioned cities, stop. 2 of them are close to Moscow and are not a great problem for maintenance, another one will be settled in optimal position, avoiding a possible crappy city by G (and STW marked it with #8, this would mean something).
But let's stop here. One more tac later is not that big difference compared to the crappy spots currently avaiable.
If we want the conquered city being productive we'll spread our corps, or we'll let it at its destiny, forced by those crazy game settings.

I'll wait to see opinions on those 3 posts to play. I also can update the marks if we agree for the cities and delete the useless ones, along with renaming some unit.

edit: another point. i'm inspired :)
in my last test, i've found an optimal size for cities can be around 12-13 pop.
The northernmost 2 (one is the one we're building the settler for) will grow to this size without Sushi and running a couple specialists each. Same can be for Yaro and the one with the settler now walking. We can avoid Sushi there unless we don't want run lots of specialists. Or we can spread to those 2, things won't change much.

The main point of this reasoning is: once we conquer cities, we'll acquire more Sushi resources and the cities will grow out of control, even avoiding to work food-rich tiles.
We have 2 ways to avoid this:
a) use the "avoid Growth" button
b) control them with some MM, starving and growing keeping them of the same size
c) avoid to build pretty expensive health buildings (Recycling, hospital, etc)
hmmm... while writing i think solution a) is the easiest. ;) it will also avoid to consider solution c).

edit2: another thought, and this is a key strategic point.
are we sure we need Sushi?
yes) ok, all i posted is correct
no) oh, damn i have to revise everything.
- no medicine to research, no hospitals, no Red Cross (at least until nukes)
- no need to run merchants
- some city will grow very slow and max to pop 8-9
- less maintenance, less hammers spent on executives

As i said weeks ago, i think the detour to medicine have a pay-off in the short term, but some doubt hit me.
I'm human after all.

BLubmuz

Oct 21, 2009, 01:31 PM

I'm definitely spamming this thread :blush:

STW, an inspiration took me while drinking my after-dinner coffee!
If we build wealth now and anticipate Mining Inc, we can still develop our cities in time for the big bloodbath.

I'll try immediately this option, the only one (probably) i missed.

unclethrill

Oct 21, 2009, 02:44 PM

I say we need Sushi to keep the captured cities from dragging us down horribly. Getting extra food and culture into the captured cities will help us recover the economy. Also, the extra merchant specialists will be needed for the war. Since we are convinced that a change to emancipation is inevitable, we need to get the structures in the cities that allow the specialists to be run. The important ones for us will be merchants (and Engineers: I like industrial parks despite BLubz belief in SGOTM9) once the war starts.

Finish your testing and play! I'm ready for another chance to play soon.

BLubmuz

Oct 21, 2009, 04:00 PM

Test done.
I managed to found MI in 1871 opposed to 1874 of my best attempt.
Since WS was almost done when dG asked to adopt NH, there's 1 turn of anarchy and maybe some loss due the bureaucracy bonus.
He asked between 1855-56, so during my TS.

I got a proposal, then i'll play. But without building wealth. It's worth almost nothing.
Most of our cities still lack commerce multipliers and the output is really poor.
A way can be to run merchants instead of engineers (excluded Moscow and Rostov, of course), so we'll delay a bit the buildings, but not much.

My proposal:
This is the worst moment in our game where we need everything.
A GAge when the WS will begin (1849) and a civic change to NH can be of great help. No delay in WS due to GAge bonuses, probably we can start the OU a couple turns sooner. We'll save something on civics upkeep and this will help too. And we avoid the demand, stil gaining relations with dG.
Then, revolt to FM on the very last turn.

I'll try a test in this way, and i'll let you know, hopefully before go sleep.

greatbeyond

Oct 21, 2009, 05:03 PM

To answer a question....

At least 15 times I have played forward to nuclear Armageddon, and I have found plenty of things I wished we had done slightly different.

I have had Fission as early as 1890, and completed Manhattan in the late teens and early 1920s. I have started Nuking as early as 1940 to the 1950s. I have discovered that getting Nukes is NOT the end of the game. You still have to research to keep ahead of the AI and you have to have time to build lots of Nukes plus time to use them and conquer cities. I have no doubt we will win, when is the real issue.

Blubmuz had estimated 50 to 60 cities to be nuked. At even one Nuke per city this will take a long time. At two Nukes to a city, we will need 100, even if we can build 3 Nukes per turn, it is still 33 turns of building Nukes. I favor two Nukes per city because it means less of a standing Army and less unit maintenance. Along with simultaneous attacks of G's cities, this is the path to victory. Simultaneous attacks on as many of one AIs cities as possible, leaves them unable to mount a counter offensive and provides superior wealth. G's cities will all be coming out of revolt as we are starting on the next victim. It requires more coordination but I think is the best choice. It would be even bolder to take on G and the next weakest Civ at the same time.

I had Moscow cranking out Nukes every 2T and still it took forever. Most other cities managed every 4T at best.

I have had OU in Rostov patterned after the way it is now and have found just what STW says. Emancipation causes so much unhappiness the number of specialists is sorely reduced. I was forced to change to Emancipation and lost the ability to still produce GP. I wish I had tried it with Globe there. Before Eman. was a problem, I could run 15 specialists but that was the peak. Vladivostok will probably be able to run 15 to 20, even with Eman. effects. I think Vladivostok is still the superior choice for OU. Send in more Workers to speed improvements.

I also made little use of Privateers and as a result the AI settled everything in site. This leads to having a very high number of cities that need to be nuked. Privateers actually last quite some time, especially if you use them as hit and run units after there are too many frigates around.

I didn't think "out of the box" enough as I tried to create just GS. We can use a GM to give us the gold to keep research high. We can use a GE to complete OU well ahead of building it with city production. We use up the GE but what do we save in scientific research and being able to use city hammers for other purposes. While these are just ideas, we need to keep all options open.

Next post I'll examine the proposed next TS.

greatbeyond

Oct 21, 2009, 05:23 PM

Something I had forgotten. We should have enough CH for the Forbidden Palace to be built soon. Where do we want it?

For the most part I like STWs comments on Blubmuz's
TS. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8566933&postcount=1064
I'm sure I haven't thought out all the ramifications of Blubmuz's or STWs proposals so let me know what the reasoning may be.

A few changes:

Novgorod - Bank, Levee, Wealth
Smolensk - CH, Market, wealth

Workers -
Yekaterinburg needs growth tiles, start farming!

GG - Yekat or supermedic

Novgorod - Culture will not help at the rate we can build it. We will end G's influence when we take his cities.

"Structured Cities" - as Blubmuz has seen in his tests, the only cities that will contribute significantly to our production will be our original cities, and G's once they come out of revolt.

Sweetacshon

Oct 21, 2009, 05:43 PM

I'm sorry to abandon the discussion at this critical juncture, but I'm leaving very soon for the weekend. Well, it's why I'm only really lurking, as RL is very busy atm. Best of luck for the TS, whatever is chosen.

BLubmuz

Oct 21, 2009, 06:38 PM

GB, i'm tired to repeat: you're completely wrong about Emancipation. We don't face problems until the war (provided our cities are *structured*), but when we'll start the war, we'll do.
The problems will be in any city and Rostov (or Vladi) is just one of them.

Putting the Globe in a city doesn't save the others for the need to run Emancipation!

You did well if you managed Manhattan in '10s, but did you took the railroad/medicine path?

Now i'm testing my new idea of a GAge when we start WS in Moscow. I'm fine tuning it, to squeeze the best. I think that starting it the 2nd turn WS is under construction can be the best choice, but i need more testing.

When i'll completed, i'll post a revised PPP and play.

greatbeyond

Oct 21, 2009, 07:38 PM

I get your point about other cities suffering from emancipation. Until it gets to a tipping point (during war), we won't need to change but in the meantime, Rostov will lose the ability to run as many scientists. That is what I am concerned with. I know you think we don't need any more great people, but with Vlad., we could get 2 or 3 more, plus the amount of science, commerce, culture, etc.. coming from there should be tremendous (depending on what specialist we run). Remember our city from the last SGOTM and what it was producing?

Perhaps we won't need any more Scientists, so we run Merchants and complete a couple of trade missions. We can probably get 1500 to 2000 gold from DG.

Happiness should not be an issue in Vlad. (even without Eman.) as each FP gives 1 Happy citizen.

Each will also give 2 commerce when we have Environmentalism.

My research path was pretty much straight to Fission, then Rocketry and backfilling techs. I pushed out as many GPs as I could until the cost got way too high. It is different from what we propose to do, but your proposal may get to the goal around the same time. There are always many paths, what counts is how well we execute the path.

One other word about Manhattan. If we don't have Uranium (cruel map maker trick) it will take a long time to complete. I built it in Moscow and had IW all improvements, Factory, and Nuclear Power plant, and it still takes awhile.

I haven't had a Nuclear Plant melt down yet. Perhaps I shouldn't have just said that.

greatbeyond

Oct 21, 2009, 07:47 PM

Have you seen Maple Sporks culture and power graph? I wonder if they lost a big cultural city to G?

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 21, 2009, 08:24 PM

Putting the Globe in a city doesn't save the others for the need to run Emancipation!

Why do you think we need to run Emancipation?

I have never run Emancipation even in the midst of severe Emancipation Unhappiness; I have been able to increase Happiness enough so that only my most Populous Cities have some Angry Citizens due to Emancipation Unhappiness, except the Globe Theatre Great Person Farm and the National Park Great People Farm.

I anticipate we will run Caste System through to the Game's end.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 21, 2009, 08:33 PM

Just a problem: both Mao and dG have already lots of frigates. We can see them. Why let them gain free XP?

This is how I would do it until DG or Mao have too many Frigates, then we move to American waters.

You must be confusing some future date in your test with the current state of the Game.

De Gaulle currently wants Astronomy, so how can he have Frigates now? If you saw that De Gaulle had Frigates that was from your test Game.

I must assume you provided this false information without realizing it. In any case, unclethrill switched from building numerous Privateers to building few Privateers based in part on false information that several AIs had or could now build Frigates when only one AI (Mao Zedong) can currently build Frigates. He should have a chance to reconsider his decision on Privateer support.

Sorry, BLubmuz, I didn't see where you address misinformation you presented above. Please explain how De Gaulle can have Frigates now without Astronomy?

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 21, 2009, 09:41 PM

De Gaulle currently wants Astronomy, so how can he have Frigates now? If you saw that De Gaulle had Frigates that was from your test Game.

I know this:
When i move further W the privateers W of Bombay (once healed), i can see french galleons and frigates.
Is it my test? sure, it is, but it's very accurate. *Very* accurate.

Very accurate? Your said yourself that your test Game is based on a very old test save that greatbeyond produced and as a result it could not be very accurate. He worked hard to get it as accurate as it is, but I'm working on the same save with WB and I can tell everyone that it isn't a very accurate representation of our current Map at 1465 AD. Furthermore, you had to accurately bring it to up to date with about 10 turn sets. Did you faithfully reproduce each TS and then checked the Game statistics in your Test Game with the Real Game at the end of each TS to ensure they were very close to each other and adjusted the Test Game to match if it was too far off?

Well, I'll call it as I see it. You deliberately (sorry, I no longer believe you confused the Test Game with the Real Game on this issue) misled Team members about which AIs have Frigates, so you could push your agenda of very few Privateer builds.

So in your Test Game did you trade Astronomy to De Gaulle in turn 156 or earlier?

We are on the same Team; you lied to (deliberately misled) your Team members; I'm just so shocked and disappointed that you would do something like this. And the sad part is you are wrong about the Privateer surge this TS; it is one of the critical things we need to do now to limit the number of AI Cities, reduce AI Growth and destroy many AI units/Hammers.

Me and UT are against, GB and Culdeus are undecided. Who are the 3? I see only you in the roster. I can count Sweeta, but his points about OU are opposing to privateers.
Mesix is away, so he can't count and i can't remember to have seen something from him on this.
Mesix's last post is 09/26 and his last activity in CFC was in 10/05. How can he count?
Since we're 2-2-2 at best it's a tie. But the leader decides in case of a tie.
I'm the leader, guess what i decide? :)

BLubmuz, you compounded one lie with another lie: You know perfectly well that greatbeyond, Sweetacshon and Sun Tzu Wu are in favor of 6-8 Privateers build this TS, so there are 3 in favor; until you lied saying that most AIs now have Frigates, unclethrill was also in favor of more Privateers, making 4 in favor. I don't know whether unclethrill will change his mind, but 3 is already a majority, so does it really matter, except to get a better consensus.

Only Mao Zedong has Frigates right now.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 21, 2009, 10:00 PM

Absolutely NOT! Must build University here [Vladivostok] so Oxford University can built [in Vladivostok].

you don't read my posts! OU will go in Rostov, where can be started in 1859 or even sooner. In a way or another, we'll must switch to Emancipation when we'll start the war. We own 16 cities by then, not 2. We must look at any city, not just the important ones. By then, any city will contribute in the same way to research, thanks to Sushi specialists. That's why we need to structure them. Unless we don't want to spread Sushi widely and stuck with many size 8-9 cities.
In my tests i barely have time to build some unit here and there before the fireworks began

Yes, I read your posts.

The main problem with Oxford University in Rostov is the short term gain of 810B is hardly worth building it there versus building Oxford University in Vladivostok. Emancipation Unhappiness will kill the Research capacity of Rostov without Globe Theatre.

Also, I have seen only unclethrill and you support Oxford University in Rostov; that's hardly a consensus.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 21, 2009, 11:50 PM

Building Wealth in numerous Cities until Railroad is completed:

I'm definitely spamming this thread :blush:

STW, an inspiration took me while drinking my after-dinner coffee!
If we build wealth now and anticipate Mining Inc, we can still develop our cities in time for the big bloodbath.

I'll try immediately this option, the only one (probably) i missed.

To speed up GP generation: To complete a GS in 9t and another 13t later, Rostov must have 11 Scientists and only 3 Hpt. (After this set to 11 Merchants and a Great Merchant will be generated in about 15t later for Sid's Sushi; The Great Merchant will complete in a total of 9t + 13t + 15t = 37t.) Base line Research 00% now is 177 Bpt / 34 Wpt; setting it to Research 10% = 207 Bpt / 5 Wpt.

Building Wealth in numerous Cities until Railroad is completed:

You will see that eventually building Wealth in Rostov, Novgorod, St. Petersburg, Yaroslavl' and Smolensk will raise the Research % by about 30%. This will allow us to complete Steel and Railroad almost as quickly as it possibly can be done.

Research rate before completing last 3 Banks and Wall Street:

To see what I mean, just set these 7 Cities to Wealth in the current turn (156) and observe how much higher the Research slider can be raised making the Wealth rate as close to zero as possible: Observe that the Research rate while building Wealth in these 7 Cities is about 40% = 297 Bpt / 0 Wpt

Research rate after completing last 3 Banks and Wall Street:

Note that this Research rate will be much better after 3 Banks are build and dramatically better after Wall Street is completed. The Banks will add a total of +21 Wpt and Wall Street will add +55 Wpt; +76 Wpt total. Wall Street will complete in 15t. Setting the research to 60% = 357 Bpt / -58 Wpt +76 Wpt = 357 Bpt / 18 Wpt. Setting the research to 70% = 387 Bpt / -87 Wpt +76 Wpt = 387 Bpt / -11 Wpt. Solving for a 0 deficit of 0 Wpt, we get Research 66% = 375 Bpt / +0.6 Wpt.

Steel in 11t:

Research 66% is closest to 70% than 60%, so set to 70% and observe that Steel could be completed at this rate in 7t. But, of course the Banks and Wall Street aren't buiild, so we now get at best Research 40% = 297 Bpt / 0 Wpt and Steel can be completed in 9t, except the 3 Bank builds must be completed before significant Wealth can be build, so set Research to 10% = 207 Bpt / 5 Wpt and we see that Steel is completed in 13t worst case and we will have significant Wealth building in the latter 7 of these 13t, so Steel will be built in about 9t + 13t / 2 = 11t (slightly simplifying the actual mathematics).

Railroad in 16.5t:

Therefore, we will start Railroad 6t before Wall Street is completed, so for the first 6t of Railroad are Research rate will be 40% = 297 Bpt / 0 Wpt. However, let's just set Research to 60% = 357 Bpt / -58 Wpt +76 Wpt = 357 Bpt / 18 Wpt rather than 66% to compensate somewhat for the real Research rate being 40% for the first 6t. Now go to F6 and observe the number of turns it would take to complete Railroad at Research 60%: We see that it will take about 20t, but that doesn't include the discount for knowing Steel, which we don't yet know; the discount will take off about 4t, leaving 16t. We know the first 6t of Research without Wall Street will be significant slower by 357 Bpt - 297 Bpt = 60 Bpt, a net lost of 360B over 6t, which is more than the difference between Resreach 66% = 375 Bpt / +0.6 Wpt and Research 60% = 357 Bpt / 18 Wpt which is 18 Bpt * 10t = 180B. So, approximation of using Research 60% is 180B short, but that is about 1/2 of a turn's worth, so we add 0.5t if we are pedantic.

Conclusion:

Thus, Steel can be completed in 11 turns and Railroad can be completed in 16.5 turns by building Wealth in the 7 Cities mentioned above. The 7 Cities can stop building Wealth, we found Mining, Inc. in Moscow and start spreading it for nice boosts in Hammer production.

Without building Wealth, Steel will be completed in 13t and Railroad in 33t, discounted to 27t. A total of 13t + 27t = 40t.

I argue that its worth building Wealth in these 7 Cities for 20-27 turns (depending on the City) to complete Steel and Railroad in 27.5 turns versus 40 turns without building Wealth, provides Mining, Inc. to all our Cities about 12-13t sooner than otherwise possible and a significant amount of extra City building and units can be build in those 12-13t.

Furthermore, this plan gets us to Rocketry 12-13t sooner than otherwise possible. I would hardly call these advantages of temporarily building Wealth in 7 Cities nothing.

Also, getting Mining, Inc. 12-13t sooner also helps compensate the 7 Cities building Wealth to quickly build in 12-13t utilizing Mining, Inc. what they would have taken 20-27 turns to build (Infrastructure) without Mining, Inc.

BLubmuz, I suggest that you put your TS on hold, so that all Team members can speak out about this proposal.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 22, 2009, 01:53 AM

STW, GB stated he's undecided. No more talking about privateers, you still do not showed me how they can help us to gain a single turn.

You keep not reading my posts:
I've posted that i've tried your "building wealth" strategy and it returns only 4 turns better then building structures. And the structures still need to be built.
I've posted about a GAge to speed WS and consequently our research and not a word about this.
I've posted that we'll be forced to run Emancipation when the war starts and that having the Globe in a city doesn't change the overall need to adopt that civic.

You totally ignore my efforts in testing, you consider 800 beakers as a benefit from OU in Rostov, despite i showed they are almost 2000.
Not a word on a key post where i discussed the SoL, 3 more cities to be settled and more mid-term strategies.

You're stuck with your idea and you won't change it because it's your idea.

Now i need some more testing for the GAge thing, then i'll play until the end of that GAge if i find it useful.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 22, 2009, 01:57 AM

Moscow:
With the Corps even the Capital needs a CH. Until then, 3 gpt are saved.
Observatory between Settler and Wall Street is a better build because it will generate far more beakers than the pathetic 3 Wpt savings of a Courthouse. The Courthouse can be built after higher priority builds like Wall Street and Ironworks.

St. Petersburg:
Bank in 6/5t (recovering from Poison); build Wealth (help to complete Railroad sooner & found Mining, Inc.)
I see, but i think a cultural powerhouse is what we need in the mid term. Some sacrifice in research is worth the result.
31 Hpt building Wealth after Bank is needed to complete Railroad 12-13t earlier than otherwise possible.; Cultural buildings can be delayed 20t.

Novgorod:
Bank in 3t; build Wealth (not enough Commerce to justify a Library and University.
a) Not completely right
b) Lib and Uni give also culture, are needed for the OU and the city will be as good as any other one
A University is being built in Yakutsk; a 2nd University should be built in Vladivostok; only two more Universities are needed for Oxford University.

Building Wealth is needed to complete Railroad 12-13t earlier than otherwise possible.

Rostov:
Work Boats should be built in Yekaterinburg, not Rostov.
one in each, no more. the 2 more needed will be built in Krasno
No, all Work Boats should be built in Yekaterinburg, because of Heroic Epic +100% Hammer bonus for military units; Work Boats qualify as military units with regard to Heroic Epic; the Hammers saved and speed of production are well worth up to 15W in maintenance for each Work Boat to get it to its destination at 3 MPpt.

fire the eng, hire three Sci (to complete a GS in 9t and a 2nd GS in 22t = 13t later).
you're forgetting that we need a GM before next GS if we want found Sushi when it will become available
No, I haven't forgotten; I have included it every Great Person generation plan I've created that went as far as providing for a Great Merchant for Sid's Sushi; search this thread and you will find them; Sorry, I should have mentioned the GM generation after the second GS above; I'll do so now; After the 2nd GS generated, switch to 11 Merchants and in 15t a Great Merchant will be generated with a very high probability due to the lack of Oxford University (OU should be built in Vladivostok anyway).

Vladivostok:
Absolutely NOT! Must build University here so Oxford University can built.
you don't read my posts! OU will go in Rostov, where can be started in 1859 or even sooner. In a way or another, we'll must switch to Emancipation when we'll start the war. We own 16 cities by then, not 2. We must look at any city, not just the important ones. By then, any city will contribute in the same way to research, thanks to Sushi specialists. That's why we need to structure them. Unless we don't want to spread Sushi widely and stuck with many size 8-9 cities.
In my tests i barely have time to build some unit here and there before the fireworks began
Yes, I do read your posts; I have already explained why Oxford University should be built in Vladivostok; thus after Vladivostok completes Library in 2t, it must build a University. Courthouse must come after Oxford University and National Park. I have already written several posts explaining why.

Krasno:
Complete Marble Quarry in 5t; build Road in 2t; 1-S, build 1F4H Workshop.
The mine on the hill is a chop, better than a WS in short, right?
OK, Chop the Forest, then build the Workshop; 1F4H Workshop trumps 1F3H G Mine.

Orenburg:
Worker 12: Road in 2t; 1-N of Orenburg 1t; Road in 1t; 1-N, Road in 1t; build Stone Quarry in 3t.
Worker 13: Road in 2t; 1-N of Orenburg 1t; Road in 1t; 1-N, Road in 1t; build Stone Quarry in 3t.
We don't need stone until next TS and it's not workable. a chop NOW will speed the CH, then they'll join for the quarry
You mean the Stone has 0F, so there are better things for the Workers to do; they should at least each complete a Road where they are so units can move between the two Cities faster. OK, Chop a Forest, but I think building a Workshop might be better.

Yekaterinburg:
Complete Farm in 2t; Complete Workshop in 3t; Windmill 1-N of Yekaterinburg (it can't even support one 0F Mine and already has one)
our workers in mainland have not important jobs to complete. that mine will be used later.
Why do you want to build a Mine rather than a Windmill 1-N of Yekaterinburg?

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 22, 2009, 02:25 AM

Privateers:

STW, GB stated he's undecided. No more talking about privateers, you still do not showed me how they can help us to gain a single turn.

No, I never seen greatbeyond post saying he doesn't want to build Privateers. He may be undecided about building 15 Privateers or 20 Privateers, but that doesn't support your position in the least.

Privateers can save us 10-20 turns in the End Game via reduced numbers of Cities that must be captured:

Privateers have and will continue to slow down and most likely stop AI expansion; we have Gandhi's Galleons pinned in his Cities; we can destroy AI Seafood Nets; do some blockades; destroy AI ships.

The most important result of building more Privateers will be keeping the number of AI Cities low!

How many turns will it take to capture

40 Cities?

55 Cities?

70 Cities?

I posted this with more detail before, but I'm not sure you responded to it or even read it.

Stop Using Test Game:

Your Test Game is lying to us and that is a big problem.

You must stop using your Test Game. It seems that it is so far different from the current state of our Real Game that it is providing data that has little value in our Real Game. You need to Validate that your Test Game on turn 156 matches as much as possible our Real Game on turn 156. At the very least, you must verify that each AI has the same Technologies in both Games and is working on the same Technology and the progress in it is about the same.

Post Test Game Save:

I have asked several times for a Save from your Test Game, yet you have posted none that I'm aware of. Please post your Test Game save for turn 156 (1843 AD).

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 22, 2009, 03:09 AM

You keep not reading my posts:

I read everyone's posts; everyone has valuable input.

I've posted that i've tried your "building wealth" strategy and it returns only 4 turns better then building structures. And the structures still need to be built.

Before you said it provided nothing; now you say 4t. However, I mathematically proven (from the Game State in turn 156) that building Wealth in seven Cities for 20-27t will allow us to complete Steel and Railroad 12-13t; that I repeat is not nothing.

Why are you so resistant to this idea which I have proven works? It seems you just don't believe that building Wealth can make such a different and aren't willing to even listen.

I've posted about a GAge to speed WS and consequently our research and not a word about this.

See below about Golden Ages.

I've posted that we'll be forced to run Emancipation when the war starts and that having the Globe in a city doesn't change the overall need to adopt that civic.

Too often you provide binary answers. For example, when the war starts we have to run Emancipation; that's binary (run, don't run). How bad is the Emancipation Unhappiness? If you can tell us that maybe we can suggest alternatives to running Emancipation.

You totally ignore my efforts in testing, you consider 800 beakers as a benefit from OU in Rostov, despite i showed they are almost 2000.

What do you expect? I computed the value as 810 Beakers based on dates you quoted from your testing and dates that I have mathematically determined. You said you came up with 2000 Beakers claiming that Rostov can have an operational OU 30t before Vladivostok could. Vladivostok will have more Hammers than Rostov. I have computed the difference to be just 15t.

You claim 2000 Beakers, but I don't believe you or your Test Game, because I computed 15t. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think your Test Game is more suspect.

When I originally asked for 3 Workers for Vladivostok, you said no, just one Worker. That was the time to develop Vladivostok properly, had you allowed it; Vladivostok would be completing a University or starting Oxford University. There would be no argument about where OU should go.

Not a word on a key post where i discussed the SoL, 3 more cities to be settled and more mid-term strategies.

I'm more interested in the current TS and so is every Member of this Team; will these things (SoL, 3 Cities) happen this TS? If not, the discussion on them can wait a day or two.

You're stuck with your idea and you won't change it because it's your idea.

I could say the same about you with even more conviction.

No, I'm only interested in ideas that Win the Game in the earliest possible date; that is the goal we should all be working toward; Of course we will have differences of opinion about how to best Win the Game as earlier as possible. However, I have absolutely no time or interest in any idea that doesn't or will not work better than any other.

Now i need some more testing for the GAge thing, then i'll play until the end of that GAge if i find it useful.

I have some reservations about Golden Ages; after the first GP generated Golden Age, they consume too many GP to be efficient, in my opinion.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 22, 2009, 06:34 AM

my PPP:
(...)
Cities
Moscow: settler (4) - Obs - CH - WS Switch at any moment it will be avaiable
StPete: Bank in 5 (starving, avoid drop) - Grocer, then Hermitage in the meantime, marble is hooked
Novgorod: Bank (3) - Lib - Levee
Rostov: Obs (10) - CH (8) the benefits of an observatory are far greater than a CH
fire the eng, hire another Sci
Yaroslav: Bank (6) Obs - Uni
after bank halt growth and hire 2 Merc
Yekaterinburg: Privateer - Galleon - WB - Uni OK for WB from Yek... i'll alternate to obtain the max overflow
Yakutsk: Uni - CH
Vladi: Lib - CH
Smolensk: CH (7) - WB - Market
Orenburg: CH
Krasnoyarsk: CH - WB - WB
fire the artist next turn, work unimproved clams+marble
City site 6: CH
City site 7: CH

Espionage
set G to 2, Chur to 0, the others to 1
Various
the knight pair will embark to pillage the north side of the barb continent and they will try to capture workers.
The galleon with them will gather the GG, who will settle in Novo[/B].

Research
Maybe i can run some turn at 100%
I quoted my PPP. Changes in red
My best date for Bio was 1874, with the GAge. With that, Rostov can complete the OU in 1865 (provided i build Unis as i planned).
Vladi will probably have completed the Uni by then, and needs to build both OU and NP. Not before 25 more turns, despite the GAge.
This means we lose exactly 34 turns of OU in Rostov. And when the beakers from it are strategic. As i said, by 1900 anything will lose its value. Single cities will cease to count and we must see the Empire as a whole from then on.

Problems with Emancipation
After the war starts, we have some 3-4 turns of grace, then the bigger cities begin to show some angry face. 2 more turns and they extend to any city.
The best planned war requires 6-7 turns for India. By then we won't have a monstrous army, troops need to be healed.
The overseas wars will last even longer, since many cities are inland. And we can't have all the needed troops before start. With airports we can start conquering the coastal cities, airlift some troop when the conquerors are healing, but the main stacks need to come by ship.
In few words, we must adopt Emancipation. But by then, a single city means nothing.
In this TS and until 1900 the OU means the key to victory.

As you see above i already has the Obs after the settler. BTW this can be due in 3t hiring a citizen for 2 turns.
But i have some doubt about the Obs. it will provide the 25% of some 40 commerce and 3 beakers (free specialist) (some 10-11) only for few turns at this stage. The CH will provide 3 commerce saved every turn and some 20 after MI will be founded.

The privateers won't deny the AI from settle. Once anyone will have frigates, the galleons will travel escorted by one or more frigates. If we are so lucky to spot them and we have a stack of 4-5 we can sink them, otherwise they'll go where they want.

Harrass G for some turn, then move to Roos who has not iron hooked is the best we can squeeze out of our privateers. Keep some in port to protect from AI or barb (yes, barbs buid privateers) can be of help. If we see (a looong if) an unescorted galleon we can sink it. No more from them.

About the GAge, there's a downside.
We can surely revolt to NH in the last turn or if dG asks to do so.
But not to FM yet. We must wait to gain the benefits from the free specialists, to huge at this stage.
So, if we decide (but i'm not yet decided, i need to test more) to launch it, we must be prepared to 1 turn of anarchy after we spread MI to the the second city.

greatbeyond

Oct 22, 2009, 08:50 AM

BLubmuz

Oct 22, 2009, 09:17 AM

I'm testing with GAge launched the 2nd turn WS is under contruction. This seems to be the best use of it.
But i'm undecided.

Now i'll try the "pure wealth" strategy STW is so warmly proposing.
To be honest, in my tests i didn't built wealth in all the cities.
Premise: OU will go in Rostov, no discussion on this point. Vladi is just stupid for that.
I'll try this: Finish 3 banks now under construction.
Build grocer in StPete, otherwise it starves badly.
Build Uni in Yek, alternating with WB for the northernmost cities.
Without GAge.
Continue and start CHs in newly founded cities.
Continue to build Uni Yakutsk in to let Rostov have the OU ASAP.
Completed those, Wealth in any city.

I'll give you soon the result.

greatbeyond

Oct 22, 2009, 09:54 AM

The revised TS looks mostly OK, with a few rehashes and new thoughts.

I don't think putting the GG in Novgorod is his best use. Putting him in Yekaterinberg provides another couple XP for naval units, Moscow would provide XP for land units. ( It is a long way until we start building Nukes) A supermedic on a Galleon can help heal our naval units now and land units when the war starts.

We won't use Privateers to protect against the Barbs, use Frigates. When we are not at war the Frigates have nothing to do but chase Pirates or escort a Galleon.

Yekaterinberg needs to grow.

greatbeyond

Oct 22, 2009, 10:00 AM

BLubmuz

Oct 22, 2009, 10:30 AM

How many turns do you propose/estimate Blubmuz before we convert to Emancipation? This will help me figure out the true difference between Vlad and Rostov. After all as soon as we adopt Emancipation, OU in in Rostov would lose most of it's gpp value. I know, it will still boost science, but the gpp are more valuable at this point.Another one which not reads my posts :mad: :)
When the Indian war will start. Or few turns later (2-3), to squeeze the max from Caste.
By then we'll have 2 GPersons to start a GAge. That will be our last civic change.

But, still by then, we'll have the CR, so we can switch civics at wish.

The fact is that in any city the OU loses its boost.
And since any city will have happiness problems (unless we don't want to avoid Sushi) the conclusion is simple: build it when you'll have the bst output.

As i already said, when the war starts "les jeux sont fait".

This competition will be won by the team which will arrive first to Fission and with enough production.
I think that our strategy for MI will delay by some turns Fission or maybe not, since while researching the path to Railroad we pop GSs.
Anyway, it would be fun to see a team arrive there and put 15 turns on the MP and 4 on a Tac in Capital.

We can win this time, thanks to the GEs.

BLubmuz

Oct 22, 2009, 10:34 AM

unclethrill

Oct 22, 2009, 12:52 PM

Okay, it's time for a little reality here.

First of all, according to BLubz, we can have all the techs we need by 1920 in order to start our war. That is T233 ( I checked ). All other techs we research are just extra to help our war or economy but unneeded. We are currently at T156. That means 77 turns left that OU is useful. After 1920, we will be running mostly Merchants and Engineers so the effect of OU is nil at that point. So at this point we have 77 turns that OU can be useful. BLubz says that we can finish OU in Rostov in 27 turns (1870) that gives us 50 turns of effectiveness from OU if it is in Rostov. BLubz says we need an additional 34 turns to get OU in Vlad. STW says 15 more. Let's split the difference and say to get OU in Vlad will take an additional 25 turns. That means that after it is done we have 25 turns (77 - 25 -27)of effective use for OU in Vlad. By building it in Rostov we have doubled the time that OU is useful and get 25 turns of doubled research right now.

OU has nothing to give us after the techs are researched since we will not run scientists anymore.

I'm not about to get into the beaker calculations but just the fact that we get 50 turns of benefits from OU in Rostov and 25 from OU in Vlad is enough for me to make my decision. I voted for OU in Rostov

Second,

STW says that Mao is the only one with Frigates and dG still needs Astro while BLubz claims that everyone but G has the techs and Roos lacks Iron. I opened the save today and here is the truth of the situation:
1. G lacks chem
2. Roos lacks Iron
3. dG does lack Astro but will have it soon.
4. Mao has Frigates. Lots!
5. Church lacks Astro and Chem

So as we can see 2 AI have the techs and 1 has all the materials and frigates. 2 are within 5 -15 turns of having the techs and the materials and 1 is doomed so church really doesn't count for much.

With the fact that 1 AI currently has the navy to defeat the privateers and 2 will have everything in 5-15 turns and a fourth is only a trade for iron away, I agree that the life and times of the privateer has ended. We need not waste hammers on something that will do nothing be sink into the ocean while doing little or no damage to the AI. It is 108 hammers to build the privateers. If we redirect those hammers to rifleman then we only need 40 more (20 with the doubling in Yek) to build land units. If we redirect those to infrastructure then those are 54 (108/2) hammers towards infrastructure that has to be built at some point anyway.

So, no more privateers and let's use those hammers for a use that won't be deep-6'ed by a passing frigate.

These two arguments completely ignore the question of whether we will need to switch to Emancipation. By the time we will switch (or not), all our research will be effectively finished.

Can we move on now?

greatbeyond

Oct 22, 2009, 02:14 PM

subtitled: You can lead a Horse to water, but can't make him drink.

Why, Blubmuz, you're using a french saying! Quelle horreur.

It would be better if you add simple pictures and diagrams to your posts for those of us who you think don't read them. :lol:

Yes, Rostov will be effective for a while. It would be better in Vladivostok if we had done better planning. Vladivostok can still produce a reasonable number of GP without OU, though the science will not be as great. In fact we may just want to go for Merchants for trade missions. It is a compromise I can live with but, I still might say I Told You So

The Privateers can still be very useful. I realize that not many people have used them extensively and this SGOTM is not the time for you to learn/experiment. Even though this is/was almost the perfect type map for them.
So, NO more, NOT even one. Stack the seven of them together and pillage DG, then MAO (if we can avoid his Frigates), Roosevelt, Churchill, Gandhi.

BLubmuz

Oct 22, 2009, 02:18 PM

I've tested with the "pure build wealth" strategy.
I just builded the needed structures for OU and WS and CHs where not already there.
BTW have you noticed the maintenance of Vladi? terrible. and you want delay a CH there? crazy!

I gained 4-5 turns compared to my usual strategy to build CHs, then wealth buidings, then science buildings.
Your numbers are wrong, STW. We can improve research only building structures.
I posted i was barely ready with them by the time the war begins, how can you think we'll be ready waiting 30 turns to build them? Mining inc doesn't make miracles, it's just a good (and expensive) boost.

We also need some military, to avoid to be considered weak.
Some rifle here and there in Yek will provide the necessary for this and future use.

I've seen UT's last post. His arguments are mine arguments, yours are weak and wrong.
Sorry, but we're 4 active players, i can't consider the lurkers which never even opened a save.

Stop this infinite discussion, let's go ahead.
With my strategy.

BLubmuz

Oct 22, 2009, 02:26 PM

subtitled: You can lead a Horse to water, but can't make him drink.

Why, Blubmuz, you're using a french saying! Quelle horreur.
It's so diffused...rien ne va plus :lol:
those are not the only french words i know, if you're wandering this... i can read it like english, but i got some problems in remembering correct words.

It would be better if you add simple pictures and diagrams to your posts for those of us who you think don't read them. :lol:

Yes, Rostov will be effective for a while. It would be better in Vladivostok if we had done better planning. Vladivostok can still produce a reasonable number of GP without OU, though the science will not be as great. In fact we may just want to go for Merchants for trade missions. It is a compromise I can live with but, I still might say I Told You So

By the time Vladi will pop its first GPerson, we'll need nothing... GAges to boost production, nothing else

The Privateers can still be very useful. I realize that not many people have used them extensively and this SGOTM is not the time for you to learn/experiment. Even though this is/was almost the perfect type map for them.
So, NO more, NOT even one. Stack the seven of them together and pillage DG, then MAO (if we can avoid his Frigates), Roosevelt, Churchill, Gandhi.I use often privateers. If you ever play FfH or TR they're even deadlier than in the normal game.
But they require that the AI is far from their counters... and this is not the game for this.

OK, now i'm goin' to play a last test to refine everything, then i'll play the actual TS.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 22, 2009, 06:57 PM

I gained 4-5 turns compared to my usual strategy to build CHs, then wealth buidings, then science buildings.
Your numbers are wrong, STW. We can improve research only building structures.

Your statements above are Contradictory:

In the 1st sentence above, you said building Wealth gained 4-5 turns. In the third sentence you say "We can improve research only building structures." See your own words quoted above. How can you write two nearly sequential, contradictory sentences in the same post and not realize your logical error?

I posted i was barely ready with them by the time the war begins, how can you think we'll be ready waiting 30 turns to build them? Mining inc doesn't make miracles, it's just a good (and expensive) boost.

As I said before, we will have Mining, Inc. in 12-13 turns earlier which helps compensate for Cities which could have built some moderately useful Building rather than Wealth for 20-27 turns.

Please follow my instructions exactly:

Did you build Wealth in all seven Cities I mentioned and for the turns I mentioned? Did you hire 11 Scientists in Rostov to generate Beakers and GSs faster? Did you switch to Merchants 22t later to build the Great Merchant for Sid's Sushi. If you only build Wealth in 2-3 Cities, I'm not surprised you saw just 4-5 turns improvement. Even so, would winning 4-5 turns earlier be so bad? That could be the difference between 1st and 3rd place, for example?

You just need to play with the Research slider to see that I"m right:

You are absolutely wrong about only about only 4-5 turns improvement. It is 12-13 turns improvement based on the Game's own research slider in the Real Game which can't lie. You are basing your calculation on highly suspect Test Game.

All I did was set building Wealth in the Cities I specified and set the Research Slider to various levels usually as close to 0 Wpt as possible. It's trivial to see that my calculations are correct.

Still waiting for you to post Test Save for turn 156 (1843 AD):

I'm still waiting for you to post turn 156 of your Test Save, so I can try to validate or invalidate it versus the Real Save. Also, Give me your test save at turn 156 and I will post the Test Game 27 turns later with both Steel and Railroad completed, 13 turns before the same strategy without building Wealth anywhere.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 22, 2009, 07:20 PM

Blubmuz,

Some Concerns Addressed:

Thanks for addressing some of my concerns with your PPP.

Many Areas of PPP still conflict with essential Strategies:

However, other areas of your PPP are in direct conflict with Strategies I'm absolutely certain we must follow to gain the earliest Winning date for SGOTM-10. I've already explained why in sufficient detail for anyone to understand.

Every Wealth and Research Building in every City:

Is it your intention to build every Wealth and Research Building in every City? If yes, I can not agree to that. For example, what is accomplished by building a Library for 20t that will net us just 1 Bpt when completed whereas we could immediately be getting 8 Wpt or 8 Bpt by building Wealth or building Research? On the other hand, it is essential that every City eventually build a Courthouse, especially before or soon after founding a Corporation.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 22, 2009, 08:59 PM

Oxford University in Rostov or Vladivostok:

First of all, according to BLubz, we can have all the techs we need by 1920 in order to start our war. That is T233 ( I checked ). All other techs we research are just extra to help our war or economy but unneeded. We are currently at T156. That means 77 turns left that OU is useful. After 1920, we will be running mostly Merchants and Engineers so the effect of OU is nil at that point. So at this point we have 77 turns that OU can be useful. BLubz says that we can finish OU in Rostov in 27 turns (1870) that gives us 50 turns of effectiveness from OU if it is in Rostov. BLubz says we need an additional 34 turns to get OU in Vlad. STW says 15 more. Let's split the difference and say to get OU in Vlad will take an additional 25 turns. That means that after it is done we have 25 turns (77 - 25 -27)of effective use for OU in Vlad. By building it in Rostov we have doubled the time that OU is useful and get 25 turns of doubled research right now.

Sorry, BLubz' Test Game is highly suspect; it may be useful to tell us what lies ahead of in the Game, but there are symtoms of a large time skew; in BLubz' Test Game, the AIs are clearly far more Technologically advanced that in the Real Game; nearly all can build Frigates in the Test Games, but only Mao Zedong can build Frigates in the real Game.

OU has nothing to give us after the techs are researched since we will not run scientists anymore.

This depends on what Technologies we are referring to; After Scientific Method -> Medicine, Fission; Railroad -> Rocketry, we need Radio, Assembly Line, Ecology and Industrialism would be nice to have as well.

A major problem with this analysis is when we start capturing Cities we will be in desperate need of large amounts of Wealth to support all our Cities and their Corporate branches. At this point we should be running Merchants as greatbeyond has recently pointed out. We can generate a few Great Merchants and maybe send Trade Missions to De Gaulle for vast Wealth infusions.

This is best done with two viable Great Person Farms which can only be done by building Globe Theatre in Rostov and Oxford University in Vladivostok.

Emancipation Unhappiness does not mean we must run Emancipation; one method for handling Unhappiness in the late Game is building a Theatre and Colloseum in each City with Happiness issues and increase the Culture slider as needed so only there are only a few Angry Citizens in a few Cities = the optimal Culture % (could be anywhere from 0-50% usually).

I'm not about to get into the beaker calculations but just the fact that we get 50 turns of benefits from OU in Rostov and 25 from OU in Vlad is enough for me to make my decision. I voted for OU in Rostov

You need to calculate the short term Beakers; the highest quoted short term Beaker loss is 2000 Beakers. While building Wealth in seven Cities, I have shown nearly a sustained 400 Bpt Research (actually it was 375 Bpt), so building Oxford in Rostov gains us about 5t and after that Oxford University in Rostov is virtually worthless because Emancipation Unhappiness is too oppressive without Globe Theatre.

Only one AI can build Frigates now and he has only 4:

Second,

STW says that Mao is the only one with Frigates and dG still needs Astro while BLubz claims that everyone but G has the techs and Roos lacks Iron. I opened the save today and here is the truth of the situation:
1. G lacks chem
2. Roos lacks Iron
3. dG does lack Astro but will have it soon.
4. Mao has Frigates. Lots!
5. Church lacks Astro and Chem

Two points:

1) De Gaulle will not have Astronomy soon, since he will offer all his Wealth and World Map for it; he would not offer that much if he were at all close to completing Astronomy.

2) Mao Zedong does not have lots of Frigates; I completed the last TS and I can assure everyone that he has only 4 confirmed Frigates (one lone Frigate and 3 in a stack).

So as we can see 2 AI have the techs and 1 has all the materials and frigates. 2 are within 5 -15 turns of having the techs and the materials and 1 is doomed so church really doesn't count for much.

Still, only Mao Zedong has been able to field Frigates, and only 4. There is absolutely no reason to believe any other AI will be able to Field Frigates for at least 2 TSs, and even just one TS is enough time for us to do plenty of damage to the AIs.

Frigates versus Privateers + Privateers versus Frigates + Stupid AI:

With the fact that 1 AI currently has the navy to defeat the privateers and 2 will have everything in 5-15 turns and a fourth is only a trade for iron away, I agree that the life and times of the privateer has ended. We need not waste hammers on something that will do nothing be sink into the ocean while doing little or no damage to the AI. It is 108 hammers to build the privateers. If we redirect those hammers to rifleman then we only need 40 more (20 with the doubling in Yek) to build land units. If we redirect those to infrastructure then those are 54 (108/2) hammers towards infrastructure that has to be built at some point anyway.

unclethrill, one thing you overlook now is even with its slightly superior Frigates, the AI is hopelessly stupid and unbelievably predictable as you yourself often demonstrated in our early game with great precision regarding Gandhi's Settlers. With regard to naval vessels, this makes the AI extremely easy to ambush.

Heroic Epic in Yekaterinburg is only useful for building Military units, including Work Boats; Military units is what Yekaterinburg has been developed to build and right now only Privateers and Work Boats make sense to build. The point is both Privateers and Work Boats are very cheap to build in Yekaterinburg. They can be built in seccussive turns alternately, Privateer 1t, Work Boat 1t, Privateer 1t, Work Boat 1t, ...

So, no more privateers and let's use those hammers for a use that won't be deep-6'ed by a passing frigate.

I've previously posted this before, but I'll do it again. Here's a description of naval tactics that can exhaust and destroy even Mao Zedong's stack of 3 Frigates with a two Privateer stacks: one stack of C1 Privateers baits on a Shore Tile for +10% Defensive Strength bonus and the second stack of highly promoted Privateers held in reserve will sink the exhausted (seriously damaged) Frigates after they have attacked the baiting Privateers. The three bait Privateers are assumed to be recently built C1 Privateers (Yekaterinburg) that are expected to be lost, but do very heavy damage to the Frigates when they attack.

With a commitment to build mainly Privateers in Yekaterinburg, we can destroy stacks of Frigates with the above tactic or simply attack lone Frigates with a C1 Privateer to heavily damage it and then kill the Galleon it protects.

These two arguments completely ignore the question of whether we will need to switch to Emancipation. By the time we will switch (or not), all our research will be effectively finished.

I seriously question the need to run Emancipation, primarily because there is no United Nations in this Game that could enforce Emancipation and thus make very hard to resist via methods to increase Happiness, one of which I mentioned above.

Can we move on now?

Certainly not without a Call for Votes and a Tally of said Votes. More discussion may also be required, especially about this Test Game that seems to be grossly Technology skewed from our Real Game (The AIs seem to be far more Technologically advanced in the Test Game versus the Real Game; which one should we play to Win? ;) ).

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 22, 2009, 09:55 PM

Vladivostok:

BTW have you noticed the maintenance of Vladi? terrible. and you want delay a CH there? crazy!

BLubmuz, please don't make crazy talk. You know perfectly well why no Courthouse has been built in Vladivostok, because you insisted in only one Worker for Vladivostok initially; it is only because you had no voice in sending the additional Workers that they are finally there now, trying to catch up and the delay of the Courthouse was one causality of the rush to build Oxford University and National Park ASAP.

Weak and Wrong:

I've seen UT's last post. His arguments are mine arguments, yours are weak and wrong.

It seems that your confidence in my skill and ability to predict certain Game elements over time is highly dependent on the conclusions made and whether they align with your preferred Game Playing Idioms; often what is intuitively correct is nearly topsy-turvy in this Game; perhaps you should question the micromanagement of your Test Game Play or even its Validity to model our Real Game; it may be more fruitful if you go in that direction right now.

Sorry, but we're 4 active players, i can't consider the lurkers which never even opened a save.

My Strategy:

Stop this infinite discussion, let's go ahead.
With my strategy.

So, really, who is it that can't let go of their idea!

I'm looking for the Team's strategy for this Game, but I can't find it, anywhere!

Test Game Saves?

BLubmuz, all I have seen about your Strategy is conclusions from a Test Game that remains hidden. What is in your Test Game that must remain hidden?

BLubmuz, please post the Test Game Save for turn 156 (1843 AD), and milestone Saves so we can all see for ourselves what you are talking about and maybe do our own Tests from the same turn 156 Save, so we can have variant Tests that are comparable to each other, although they may no longer be comparable to the Real Game state.

Have you been counting how many times I've asked you to post your Test Game Save, and so far I still see no posted Test Game Save?

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 22, 2009, 11:00 PM

Each of us has a different style of play when we're playing solo, and I'm sure each of us firmly believes their way is the best way. I think that we tend to see what we want when analyzing tests and we play those tests the way we want this game to go, which may not be the way it will go. When we are playing this team game, each of us needs to bend a little bit and be open to other possibilities. I do see encouraging signs of this lately.

I agree, except I see no amicable way beyond this impasse ...

I stopped using the test save because we rushed ahead and it became too much work to update everything. In addition, not knowing exactly what moves everyone made during their TS made duplicating the game state impossible. Perhaps for the next SGOTM the active player can play the SGOTM and test save and then upload both. This is the only way to ensure accuracy and be able play out what if scenarios.

Your latest Test Save was surprisingly accurate, although I have noted some minor discrepancies with the Map itself. Excellent work, despite the slight imperfections.

Yes, I agree that the Test Game must be kept up to day by the current TS player, since only he can remember his moves best. Of course RNG will make things diverge, but replicating moves is the best we can do.

I could create a save duplicating everything we see now. The problem with this is their are factors that can not be set in worldbuilder (not that I wouldn't like to know how). You can't set cumulative relationship weights, partial builds, wounded units, Barb specifics, unit orders, partial research, or partial culture. If you can't duplicate it, it isn't worthdoing. In all my tests Mao was in the position DG is now in. I wouldn't have given DG a chance at breaking out of his crappy lands, but that's what he's doing.

I ran across what appears to be additions to WorldBuilder, but I'm not entirely sure what they do (presumbly things WB can't do) and whether they can even be used.

We keep going back to two sticking points:

Privateers - I am not undecided, I wanted more but will compromise with a lower number. This statement; "If we aren't building those then don't build even 1 more." Is only meant to convey my desire if the "Privateer crowd" gets out voted. There will be consequences for stopping Privateer production and use, ones that I believe will cost us more time at the end.

It's probably best to provide a definite range of the number of Privateers you'd like to see built.

I agree that we should build several Privateers, since its our only unit that can attack the AI without a DoW. I'm perfectly happy with expending (even all) Privateers, so long as the Privateers inflict significant damage upon the AI.

Oxford - No question here. I am absolutely for it in Vladivostok and committing extra Workers to make it happen quicker. Yes, things there should have happened better so we aren't bemoaning the delay. That is an error in long term planning and execution we missed. When we first saw the map revealed we should have plotted out where the major wonders would go. It is always easier to see the path when looking back than when looking ahead.

Thanks for your support. Yes, it was critical to have 3 Workers there when the City was built, but rationing allowed us only one Worker for a significant amount of turns.

I do understand the Emancipation unhappiness. I try to compensate all I can before giving up and converting.

I agree, there are many ways to neutralize Emancipation Unhappiness.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 23, 2009, 12:30 AM

What you both have not realized, is that Rostov will have problems for the emancipation penalty *after* we'll start the war. I can assure this, i was able to trade for all luxuries (incense from Mao and every possible luxury) and with temple and theatre any city is far below the happy cap. Until the war starts.

Rostov will not have any Unhappiness problem at all by simply building Globe Theatre in Rostov and Oxford University in Vladivostok.

Build Coliseum as well as Theatre in other Cities and increase Culture slider as needed to reduce Angry Citizens to just a few in a few of the larger Cities.

My calculations are simply perfect, since i used the dates from my autolog.
OU in Rostov can be completed by 1870, NP in Vladi by 1890, but after ir we need to build the OU, at least 10 turns even with MI. This means exactly 30 turns.
Only from sci specialist we'll lose 54*30=1620 :science:. To be honest those are less, since we'll run merchants for 11 turns to pop the Gm for Sushi.
What i can't tell is the number of turns we'll run 100% science, but supposing 1/3, they are 10 turns with around 35 commerce (trade routes and tiles), so another 350 :science:. Rounding down for merchants instead of scientists this will let some 1800 to 1900 :science: lost. Almost a GS bulb.

By building Wealth in seven previously, specified Cities, we can have 375 Bpt, so your 1800B is 4-5t worth. Besides 1800B is a small fraction of any Technology we need now aside from Scientific Method. Yes, it is significant, but hardly worth wasting Oxford University. Furthermore, building Oxford University in Rostov, means we must work 4 Hammer Tiles and thus there's only 8 Citizens left that can run as Scientists + the free Mercantilism Scientist.

We don't need science nor GPersons after the Nukes.

To the contrary, we need Radio, Assembly Line, Ecology and maybe even Industrialism.

We can also use hire Merchants and generate Great Merchants for Trade Missions and thousands in Wealth which we will desperately need after capturing 30-40 Cities.

We already have all the needed GPersons by then and a single city will not contribute in a strategic way to our effort. No more.

13 Merchants in Vladivostok would produce 13 * 3 = 39 Wpt, but Sid's Sushi allows us to support 7 more Merchants. Thus, we have 20 Merchants in Vladivostok would produce 20 * 3 = 60 Wpt. This could be doubled to 120 Wpt, with Market, Bank and Grocer.

Have you seen the screenies i posted? any city will run no less than 7-8 specialists and still growing if we want to. Structures are needed for their benefit and to support those specialists under Emancipation. What if we discover a resource in Vladi BFC? we don't hook it to run one more loosy free specialist when we're running tons of them in the other cities?

For sake of argument we run Emancipation, which specialists should we run? 4 Merchants? Priests? Spies? Engineers? Probably not Artists or Scientists?

Stop this, come with solid arguments (but you can't) or accept my proposal.

I have done so many times, but you either ignore them or reject them.

After Nukes are in, a GS can bulb 1 turn of research @100%. What do i care? well, if he can bulb Ecology, welcome, but we'll use the GPersons for GAges. Any Gperson.
Only a doubt for a possible GProphet for the Islamic Shrine.

A Great Scientist still bulbs 2250 + 4.5 * <Civ Pop.>.

Yek build queue for next TS will be: privateer, WB, galleon to gather that GG and settle him in Novo. every turn we wait are 3 base beakers lost. And they count at this stage.

The Galleon with a Knight can pick up the Great General; All 3 Knights to between Sakae and The Holy City to capture Barbarian Workers.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 23, 2009, 01:17 AM

3 more points:

Sushi
with the research path i proposed, after next GS from Rostov, next GPerson must be a GM (1869) to found Sushi when we finish Medicine. We'll pay for his maintenance for some 20 turns and a GS will pop before then (1885). But we need the gold merchant specialists generate now and the OU will be completed in 1870 in Rostov, when we'll switch back to all Scientist specialists to gain the max from it (54 bpt only from specialists).

I still say that we should hire 11 Merchants in Rostov in 22t to generate a Great Merchant in an additional 15t. This should be plenty early enough for founding Sid's Sushi.

Statue of Liberty
We'll acquire the tech Demo around 1860-65.
Sure it's a dead-end tech, but we need it also for Emancipation, late in the game.
We can start a GAge (via GE) around 1870-75 to help build the wonder and to switch civics the very last turn to Nationhood and FM.
By then, Moscow will be fully structured, so we can build executives or wealth there.
The benefits: 5 cities (OK, not much, but the core) will continue to run the free specialist until the end game, despite the civics change.
I've said everything will become marginal after Nukes, but 6 free specialists in conquered indian cities don't make me sick.
So, let me see: let's suppose to arrive to Nukes in 1920. This means 40 important turns with 2 hammers+3 beakers/turn for 4 cities and 6 beakers for Rostov.
2*4*40=800 base hammers *1.25 (forge)=1000+2*40 (Moscow, IW)=1080.
(3*4+6)*40=720 base beakers *1.75 (Lib+Uni+Obs)=1260+6*40(Rostov, OU)=1500

Multiplication by 40t makes seem more impressive than it really is. The Statue of Liberty provides only 2 * 5 Hpt = 10 Hpt and 3 * 5 Bpt = 15 Bpt + 3 Bpt more for Rostov.

And the game will be all but finished in 1920.
Do we arrive to Nukes early? how much? 10 turns are almost a dream.

Meaning Rocketry by 1920 AD? The War will take how many more turns?

Not already planned cities
We're currently producing the settler for the 7th -and last- planned site (see #3).
I see 3 more spots:
1) The one STW marked with #8 (but which i think is better delay to 10)
in a test G settled a city close, but in a horrible position. That site grants us 2 resources and it's good as any other else with the corps spreaded.

City Site #8 should remain #8, because the Silver Mine helps paid for City Maintenance better than any only City Site.

City Site #9 provides a Copper Resource for Mining, Inc.

2) Another one marked by STW, E of Yaro, with whales and possibly 2 seafood with enough culture.

City Site #10 with Fish, Whale and Iron (Mining, Inc.).

3) One more marked by STW, E of Yek with Sheeps and good production.

I'd skip this one, since it provides neither Sid's Sushi or Mining, Inc. Resources.

Just cycle though City Site #11, #12 and #13.

After the above mentioned cities, stop. 2 of them are close to Moscow and are not a great problem for maintenance, another one will be settled in optimal position, avoiding a possible crappy city by G (and STW marked it with #8, this would mean something).
But let's stop here. One more tac later is not that big difference compared to the crappy spots currently available.
If we want the conquered city being productive we'll spread our corps, or we'll let it at its destiny, forced by those crazy game settings.

I'll wait to see opinions on those 3 posts to play. I also can update the marks if we agree for the cities and delete the useless ones, along with renaming some unit.

edit: another point. i'm inspired :)
in my last test, i've found an optimal size for cities can be around 12-13 pop.
The northernmost 2 (one is the one we're building the settler for) will grow to this size without Sushi and running a couple specialists each. Same can be for Yaro and the one with the settler now walking. We can avoid Sushi there unless we don't want run lots of specialists. Or we can spread to those 2, things won't change much.

The main point of this reasoning is: once we conquer cities, we'll acquire more Sushi resources and the cities will grow out of control, even avoiding to work food-rich tiles.
We have 2 ways to avoid this:
a) use the "avoid Growth" button
b) control them with some MM, starving and growing keeping them of the same size
c) avoid to build pretty expensive health buildings (Recycling, hospital, etc)
hmmm... while writing i think solution a) is the easiest. ;) it will also avoid to consider solution c).

Draft Rifleman or Infantry! Why waste excess Food. Drafting should be done strating with at least 2 excess Happiness, so after the Draft there isn't any Angry Citizen.

edit2: another thought, and this is a key strategic point.
are we sure we need Sushi?
yes) ok, all i posted is correct
no) oh, damn i have to revise everything.
- no medicine to research, no hospitals, no Red Cross (at least until nukes)
- no need to run merchants
- some city will grow very slow and max to pop 8-9
- less maintenance, less hammers spent on executives

As i said weeks ago, i think the detour to medicine have a pay-off in the short term, but some doubt hit me.
I'm human after all.

Proceed with Sid's Sushi! It's just too powerful to ignore with a Big and Small Map!

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 23, 2009, 01:35 AM

Test done.
I managed to found MI in 1871 opposed to 1874 of my best attempt.
Since WS was almost done when dG asked to adopt NH, there's 1 turn of anarchy and maybe some loss due the bureaucracy bonus.
He asked between 1855-56, so during my TS.

Mining, Inc. by turn 184 AD 1871 doesn't seem possible, unless you built Wealth in several Cities.

I got a proposal, then i'll play. But without building wealth. It's worth almost nothing.
Most of our cities still lack commerce multipliers and the output is really poor.
A way can be to run merchants instead of engineers (excluded Moscow and Rostov, of course), so we'll delay a bit the buildings, but not much.

You must not be building Wealth in enough Cities.

My proposal:
This is the worst moment in our game where we need everything.

You think we need everything; building every Building in a City is excessive and wasteful of Hammers. Buildings within a City should be prioritized by Return on investment (ROI) for each Building.

A GAge when the WS will begin (1849) and a civic change to NH can be of great help. No delay in WS due to GAge bonuses, probably we can start the OU a couple turns sooner. We'll save something on civics upkeep and this will help too. And we avoid the demand, stil gaining relations with dG.
Then, revolt to FM on the very last turn.

First non-Taj Mahal Golden Age costs one Great Person. The extra Hammers and extra Commerce for 12t should be well worth the value of the expended Great Person. In my opinion, Two Great People expended in a single Golden Age is not a good value.

I'll try a test in this way, and i'll let you know, hopefully before go sleep.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 02:18 AM

Yesterday night i played until turn 166 (1853).
Then i stopped, 'cause it was late.

dG popped after i hit enter for the first time (1843).
Before to shut down my PC, i've read some autolog from my tests. He pops regularly every 10 turns. Luck i stopped.
Steel will be done next turn, like next GPerson, hopefully a GS

SM is on the table by Roos and G. G put it before Roos researched it.

now, i got those choices:
SM
a) trade Steel to Roos and gain some 400-500 gold in the process.
b) trade both Chem and RP to G. He has no gold. But to avoid he would sell RP to Roos i can sale it in the same turn for all his gold

GAge 10 turns, i don't understand why STW continues write 12
Steel is just 30 or some beakers away, thus we'll have a nice overflow on railroad.
WS is 2 turns away since i'm starving Moscow to gain 1 turn. Next build will be IW.
I propose to launch the GAge now, to obtain this:
- If dG asks to switch civics next turn we can accept then switch to FM the last turn of the GAge.
- we're building wonders in capital and this will help in any case
- Mining Inc can be founded before the GAge finishes
- OU in Rostov can be built before the GAge finishes

I need your answers in 12 hours, otherwise i'll decide myself.

unclethrill

Oct 23, 2009, 03:09 AM

Works for me

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 06:01 AM

How many turns will it take to capture

40 Cities?
55 Cities?
70 Cities?

I posted this with more detail before, but I'm not sure you responded to it or even read it.I think i did, but repetita juvant:
The AI settles only 3-5 more cities and mostly are in the northern shore of the main continent.

I'm concerned by the AI, particularly dG to conquer barb cities.
Other than this, they will not settle horrible spots south or 1-tile-islands.
No it's not my main concern, seen how the test worked.

In my 10 turns dG founded a city in the desert island between Vladi and Krasno and Roos in a island where he already has a city.

Before start play i deleted all the marks in the map, marked the EW distances in it, to realize maintenance and to serve as reference. Maybe useless, but i'd like do do it.

Then i marked over in red only the valuable ones, the 3 i described in my post.
- No more cities are needed to have a good starting empire.
- No more resources are needed.

Some news from my first 10 turns:
after i hit enter for the first time, after optimized any city and verified the possible trades (thing i do every turn),
- dG popped up, offering 240g for Astro. It wasn't all his gold, meaning he was some 2-4 turns away from it. Of course i accepted.
- Then i sell Astro to poor Churchill for 140 gold. Not bad, isn't it?
- After few turns i've seen G with 2 excess gpt, thus i cancelled the deal for gold (4 gpt) and traded sugar for 6 gpt
- a couple turns ago i've seen dG with pigs, thus i traded sugar for them
- in Yek after the privateer, i alternated WBs to the Uni build, to obtain the Uni and 4 WBs in 9 turns thanks to overflows
- I gathered the GG with the galleon with knights, which are pillaging the barbs. not a worker showed up yet, but it's a matter of time when they'll rebuild the improvements.
- privateers are doing pretty well, but i'll tell you later.

greatbeyond

Oct 23, 2009, 08:39 AM

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 08:57 AM

the research pattern was: (1 mean 100)
0-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0
when i have enough gold to run research 100% i switch, to avoid strange demands.

- I've lose 1 privateer to G at over 95% chances :mad:
- i eliminated that annoying HA south of Pataliputra with the pike for Khabarovsk and promoted him to amphibious. He will be upgraded to infantry. Later.
- The LB in Oremburg was loaded in the galleon to capture a worker for Yakutsk
Oremburg was guarded by a frigate for some 3 turns (chi non risega non rosega)
don't try to use a translator, it's venetian
- all the 7 planned cities are founded, 3 more and we can stop with settlers.

UT asked me in PM to play for all the GAge. I think i can accept, since we're a bit in late with this TS.

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 10:17 AM

The SM trade - Option B only, We don't want to give up Steel now. In all the tests I did, the AI improved it's tech ability as the game progressed. DG will come on strong.

Which GP do you plan on using for a Golden Age?

I'm not sure about the timing for the GA as I haven't thought it out yet. I tend to think the GA does it's best work just before or just after we start the War. Remind me now, how does a GA affect unhappiness?

STW's comments about city improvements.
This is one of the things I have learned from the better GOTM players. I used to build every building even right up to the end game not realizing they weren't all needed, and that if you are running 100% Wealth or Science, those buildings lose their effectiveness.

It's correct, basically. But this game is all but normal. Because:
1) it's a Sushi game
2) it's longer than a Space Race
3) the only way to run specialists under Emancipation is to have the appropriate buildings
4) market improves happiness form ivory, furs, whales (unfortunately they will obsolete) and mainly silk, which never obsoletes
5) grocer improves health (much needed with factories thanks to wine, sugar, spices and the only which goves only health, banana)
6) seeing both as a whole, they let run 4 merchants and they add 50% to commerce and wealth.

for those reasons, the useless building we can build is the University, because:
a) more expensive than an observatory with the same output in science
b) no specialists from it
c) we don't need it's culture output
after the needed 5 for the OU, universities will go down to the scale of priorities
since we're spending over an half of turns @ 0 research, our best choice are wealth multipliers buildings. Bank doesn't give specialists, but its 50% multiplier is huge

Many other points are good too, well thought out and in-depth.
Yes, I still believe in the power of Vlad. but that appears to be a moot point. However we can still use it for GM generation.

No one has commented on the Forbidden Palace?Of course the GE accidentally popped from Rostov will be burnt for the GA.

I agree, a GAge just before the war starts or after the Idian war is already planned.
Probably after the Indian war, to speed up the factories.

The FP? hm, i'm wandering if it can go in Vladi which is in the opposite side of the world or in one of the first cities we'll take in the new continent.
Verasilles is already there, but it's far north, so it will be one of the last cities we'll take.

Option B? ok. I'm undecided, but i think that giving both techs to G and RP to Roos for a nice amount of gold is a good move.
If Roos is attacked we can give him rifling to let him defend himself. He will have it in any case when his time will arrive, better avoid Mao grows too strong.
Same for G: if attacked by dG, we can give him rifling, for what is worth against his monstrous stacks.
The downside is that we must move our frigates out of indian lands to harrass poor Roos.

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 10:56 AM

[B]Thus, Steel can be completed in 11 turns and Railroad can be completed in 16.5 turns by building Wealth in the 7 Cities mentioned above. The 7 Cities can stop building Wealth, we found Mining, Inc. in Moscow and start spreading it for nice boosts in Hammer production.How comes i managed Steel in 9 turns building... buildings?
Thanks to trades? sure, the AI's gold just asks to be traded.
And you can bet i'll manage MI in 10, with a detour to Physics, thanks to my well planned GAge.

To be honest i began to think to it after the 5th-6th turn inside my TS. But i'm now convinced this is the best moment for a GAge. It will speed up key National wonders, then we can build wealth in Moscow some turn. With an enormous output.

Civics change
thanks to the GAge:
- if dG asks to join NH we can accept without anarchy, then switch to FM the last turn. Detailing:
a) If he asks between turns 1-5 of the GAge we can wait to switch to FM in the last turn.
b) If he asks between turns 5-10 of the GAge i can just hit F3 and change both civics at once. I've tested in my tests and it works.
We'll avoid anrchy and we'll gain a +1 for have accepted his FC and an immediate +1, growing over time for the "YHWCYC"
- if he doesn't ask, we'll revolt to NH and FM the very last turn, to max the output.

He's the big dog here, with impressive stacks of grens and ships. Gaining him pleased will ensure peace with him until we're ready to go after him. Or until destroyers.

greatbeyond

Oct 23, 2009, 02:07 PM

Oremburg was guarded by a frigate for some 3 turns (chi non risega non rosega)
don't try to use a translator, it's venetian

Perhaps, loosely; nothing ventured, nothing gained?

The French is a little easier, after a few years of French you'd think more would be retained.

Trade and sale of Astro: Good fortune may even come to those not looking. I hope there are more such pleasant unplanned surprises coming, but don't take credit for them! No building a cart before you have a horse.

The resource trades were spot-on.

Have you already started a GA? This was only mentioned a short while ago, and frankly I 'm not in favor of using a GP now, that we can use elsewhere to greater effect. This is not the sort of mid-TS surprise that qualifies for a quick decision. It should have been brought up before the TS started and discussed. Yes, we have had lengthy discussions on other topics... (Horse is being taken off like support now) :deadhorse:

If we were going to burn (use) a GE, we could have used him to finish OU in 1T in Vladivostok and eliminated the argument that it would waste "X" number of turns.

Let's not let our disagreements lead us to not talking about important matters. We will not agree on everything, except perhaps that I screwed up the first TS! :blush:

greatbeyond

Oct 23, 2009, 02:11 PM

The monster DG:

I'm thinking we may need to deal with him now vs later. It would be great to get Mao, Roosevelt, and G to DOW DG. Then we wait until he sends his troops east and send in a stack of units to pillage his metals first, then everything else. He is quickly getting out of hand and we'd better have a plan to deal with him. This plan or some other.

unclethrill

Oct 23, 2009, 03:16 PM

As much as I would like to "Deal with Charlie" we are in no position right now. In fact if we DoW him to try and pillage we could end up short about 12 cities. We could at least take pride in a nice piece of wood.

No, making him happy now is the only choice. Once we war, we have to take G first from a simple logistics stand point. I wouldn't mind dG second but if we do that there is a chance we would have someone else DoW on us due to the war and the hatred for us while if we hit say Mao, there's a chance we can get dG to help us at friendly.

unclethrill

Oct 23, 2009, 04:03 PM

If we were going to burn (use) a GE, we could have used him to finish OU in 1T in Vladivostok and eliminated the argument that it would waste "X" number of turns.

I believe that "waste" argument is not so much in the number of turns to build OU. It will take those turns in either city. The crux of the argument is that we can get it in Rostov with it running the scientists very soon. To get it working in Vlad we have to get the NP up and all the infrastructure for it done. The hold up for that is research to get the tech for the NP. This is sped up by getting OU sooner. And then the discussion runs in a circle.

We can build OU in Rostov, this means we get it sooner so that we get techs faster, the faster techs mean we get the NP sooner. Getting the NP sooner means it generates lots of research sooner. If Vlad gets the NP sooner, then it will benefit from having OU in it longer but that's impossible since it's already in Rostov.

So I stand by my vote that OU in Rostov sooner is better than OU in Vlad later.

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 05:36 PM

TS played. Saved in the last turn of GAge, as asked me by UT.

the save

The in-game logHere is your Session Turn Log from 1843 AD to 1862 AD:

Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) (6.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Combat Odds: 98.7%
Turn 433, 1843 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (6.76) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.00)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Combat Odds: 99.5%
Turn 433, 1843 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (6.69) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.00)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Combat Odds: 99.5%
Turn 433, 1843 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (80/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (67/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (54/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Knight 1 (12.00) vs Barbarian's Warrior (3.00)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 433, 1843 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Knight 1 is hit for 10 (90/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Knight 1 has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) (6.26) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.00)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Combat Odds: 98.4%
Turn 433, 1843 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 433, 1843 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 433, 1843 AD: You have trained a Privateer in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a University.
Turn 433, 1843 AD: The borders of Krasnoyarsk have expanded!

Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (6.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) (5.32) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Combat Odds: 91.9%
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 14 (60/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (6.76) vs Roosevelt's Galley (1.01)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Roosevelt's Galley is hit for 38 (8/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Roosevelt's Galley is hit for 38 (0/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) has defeated Roosevelt's Galley!
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Churchill adopts Free Market!
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Churchill adopts Theocracy!
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Orville Wright (Great Engineer) has been born in Washington (Roosevelt)!
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.30) vs Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (5.22)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Combat Odds: 15.6%
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.00) vs Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (5.22)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Combat Odds: 12.4%
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.30) vs Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (5.22)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Combat Odds: 15.6%
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Extra Combat: +40%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 13 (45/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 434, 1844 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!

Turn 435, 1845 AD: You have trained a Settler in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 435, 1845 AD: You have constructed a Bank in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 435, 1845 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a University.

Turn 436, 1846 AD: Stalin's Pikeman 2 (7.20) vs Barbarian's Horse Archer (3.00)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 436, 1846 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Barbarian's Horse Archer is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Stalin's Pikeman 2 is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Barbarian's Horse Archer is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Stalin's Pikeman 2 is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Stalin's Pikeman 2 is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Stalin's Pikeman 2 is hit for 13 (48/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Stalin's Pikeman 2 is hit for 13 (35/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Barbarian's Horse Archer is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Barbarian's Horse Archer is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Stalin's Pikeman 2 has defeated Barbarian's Horse Archer!
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Khabarovsk has been founded.
Turn 436, 1846 AD: The borders of Moscow have expanded!
Turn 436, 1846 AD: The borders of Yaroslavl' have expanded!
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Robert E. Lee (Great General) has been born in Paris (De Gaulle)!
Turn 436, 1846 AD: Nottingham (Churchill) has been captured by the French Empire!!!

Turn 437, 1847 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a University.

Turn 438, 1848 AD: Islam has spread in Khabarovsk.
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (6.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 438, 1848 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (6.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 438, 1848 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 438, 1848 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 438, 1848 AD: You have constructed a Bank in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Observatory.
Turn 438, 1848 AD: De Gaulle has made peace with Churchill!

Turn 439, 1849 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (6.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 439, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (8.40) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 439, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 439, 1849 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 439, 1849 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a University.

Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) (7.80) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 440, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (7.20) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 440, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (7.20) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 440, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (6.69) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Combat Odds: 99.2%
Turn 440, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (80/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (67/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 440, 1850 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 440, 1850 AD: The borders of Khabarovsk have expanded!

Turn 441, 1851 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 441, 1851 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a University.

Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) (6.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.90)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Combat Odds: 96.4%
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (40/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (25/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (10/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (0/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel has defeated Stalin's Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg)!
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) (6.60) vs Gandhi's Caravel (1.95)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (21/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (7.20) vs Roosevelt's Galleon (4.40)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Combat Odds: 95.2%
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Galleon!
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (7.89) vs Mao Zedong's Caravel (3.00)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Mao Zedong's Caravel is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Mao Zedong's Caravel is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 12 (82/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Mao Zedong's Caravel is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Mao Zedong's Caravel is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) has defeated Mao Zedong's Caravel!
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) (7.80) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (7.20) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 442, 1852 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!

Turn 443, 1853 AD: Bryansk has been founded.
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) (7.80) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 443, 1853 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (6.88) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Combat Odds: 97.7%
Turn 443, 1853 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Stalin's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 443, 1853 AD: You have discovered Steel!
Turn 443, 1853 AD: Hypatia (Great Scientist) has been born in Rostov (Stalin)!

Turn 444, 1854 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 444, 1854 AD: The borders of Bryansk have expanded!
Turn 444, 1854 AD: Gandhi adopts Pacifism!

Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (7.20) vs Roosevelt's Galleon (4.40)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Combat Odds: 95.9%
Turn 445, 1855 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 445, 1855 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) has defeated Roosevelt's Galleon!
Turn 445, 1855 AD: St. Petersburg celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (6.62) vs Churchill's Galleon (4.00)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Combat Odds: 96.1%
Turn 446, 1856 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (77/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Churchill's Galleon is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Churchill's Galleon is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Churchill's Galleon is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Churchill's Galleon is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Churchill's Galleon!
Turn 446, 1856 AD: You have discovered Scientific Method!
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Louis Pasteur (Great Scientist) has been born in Moscow (Stalin)!
Turn 446, 1856 AD: You have discovered Physics!
Turn 446, 1856 AD: You have constructed Wall Street in Moscow. Work has now begun on Ironworks.
Turn 446, 1856 AD: You have constructed Hermitage in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 446, 1856 AD: St. Petersburg celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 446, 1856 AD: The borders of Rostov have expanded!
Turn 446, 1856 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel (3.30) vs Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (5.46)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Combat Odds: 14.0%
Turn 446, 1856 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 14 (56/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 14 (42/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel (3.30) vs Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (5.46)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Combat Odds: 14.0%
Turn 446, 1856 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (56/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (42/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 446, 1856 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!

Turn 447, 1857 AD: You have constructed a Levee in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 447, 1857 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Krasnoyarsk. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Barbarian's Maceman (9.60) vs Stalin's Knight 1 (12.00)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Combat Odds: 25.1%
Turn 447, 1857 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Stalin's Knight 1 is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Stalin's Knight 1 is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Stalin's Knight 1 is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Barbarian's Maceman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 447, 1857 AD: Stalin's Knight 1 has defeated Barbarian's Maceman!

Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel (3.00) vs Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (5.96)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Combat Odds: 4.3%
Turn 448, 1858 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 13 (58/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 13 (45/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 13 (32/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 13 (19/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel (3.60) vs Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (5.96)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Combat Odds: 7.6%
Turn 448, 1858 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (57/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 448, 1858 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 448, 1858 AD: William T. G. Morton (Great Engineer) has been born in Guangzhou (Mao Zedong)!

Turn 449, 1859 AD: De Gaulle's Privateer (6.60) vs Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) (9.60)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Combat Odds: 10.9%
Turn 449, 1859 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) has defeated Unknown's Privateer!
Turn 449, 1859 AD: Joe Matise (Great Spy) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!

Turn 450, 1860 AD: Your Privateer 31 (Rostov) has plundered 4? outside Agra!
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Your Privateer 31 (Rostov) has plundered 4? outside Coventry!
Turn 450, 1860 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Smolensk!
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Mao Zedong has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Krasnoyarsk will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 450, 1860 AD: Gandhi's Golden Age has begun!!!

Turn 451, 1861 AD: Your Privateer 31 (Rostov) has plundered 4? outside Agra!
Turn 451, 1861 AD: Your Privateer 31 (Rostov) has plundered 4? outside Coventry!
Turn 451, 1861 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Smolensk!
Turn 451, 1861 AD: Krasnoyarsk has grown to size 5.
Turn 451, 1861 AD: De Gaulle has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 451, 1861 AD: Gandhi has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 451, 1861 AD: Bryansk will grow to size 3 on the next turn.

Turn 452, 1862 AD: Your Privateer 31 (Rostov) has plundered 4? outside Agra!
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Your Privateer 31 (Rostov) has plundered 4? outside Coventry!
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Bryansk has grown to size 3.
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Gandhi will trade Democracy
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) (8.80) vs Barbarian's Galley (2.40)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 452, 1862 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 36 (64/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 11 (78/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 36 (28/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 36 (0/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Your Frigate 11 (Moscow) has destroyed a Galley!
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin adopts Nationhood!
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin adopts Free Market!Too long...

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 05:39 PM

The autolog part1 Logging by BUFFY 4.0 (BtS 3.17)

[b]Turn 156/473 (1843 AD) [22-Oct-2009 23:09:49]
Yekaterinburg begins: University (7 turns)
While attacking, Privateer 30 (Moscow) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 98.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 30 (Moscow) (4.44/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 98.4%)
Frigate 1 promoted: Combat II
0% Research: 162 per turn
0% Culture: 67 per turn
0% Espionage: 10 per turn
100% Gold: 18 per turn, 117 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yekaterinburg finishes: Privateer
Krasnoyarsk's borders expand

Turn 157/473 (1844 AD) [22-Oct-2009 23:32:04]
Diplomacy: De Gaulle (France) offers to trade Gold (240) to Stalin (Russia) for Astronomy
Diplomacy: Stalin (Russia) accepts trade of Astronomy to De Gaulle (France) for Gold (240)
Tech traded to De Gaulle (France): Astronomy
A Lumbermill was built near Vladivostok
A Farm was built near Yekaterinburg
Knight 50 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
A Whaling Boats was built near Smolensk
While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (4.32/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking, Privateer 30 (Moscow) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 91.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 30 (Moscow) (3.60/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 91.9%)
While attacking, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) decimates American Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking just off shore near Sakae, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (5.64/6) defeats American Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
100% Research: 447 per turn
0% Culture: 63 per turn
0% Espionage: 10 per turn
0% Gold: -253 per turn, 383 in the bank

After End Turn:
Vladivostok finishes: Library

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 31 (Rostov) (3.48/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 84.4%)
While defending in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 31 (Rostov) (3.48/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 87.6%)
While defending in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 31 (Rostov) (2.70/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 84.4%)
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards Churchill (England), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Mercantilism' to 'Free Market'
Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Organized Religion' to 'Theocracy'

Turn 158/473 (1845 AD) [22-Oct-2009 23:44:39]
Vladivostok begins: Courthouse (11 turns)
Privateer 30 (Moscow) promoted: Combat III
A Workshop was built near Yekaterinburg
Yekaterinburg begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
Tech traded to Churchill (England): Astronomy
100% Research: 452 per turn
0% Culture: 65 per turn
0% Espionage: 10 per turn
0% Gold: -251 per turn, 282 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Settler
Novgorod finishes: Bank
Yekaterinburg finishes: Work Boat
Yakutsk grows to size 8

Turn 159/473 (1846 AD) [22-Oct-2009 23:51:29]
A Plantation was built near Vladivostok
Pikeman 2 promoted: Amphibious
While attacking, Pikeman 2 decimates Barbarian Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
While attacking just off shore near Pataliputra, Pikeman 2 (2.10/6) defeats Barbarian Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
Khabarovsk founded
Khabarovsk begins: Courthouse (162 turns)
Blub Comment G has SM on the table
0% Research: 164 per turn
0% Culture: 69 per turn
0% Espionage: 10 per turn
100% Gold: 32 per turn, 43 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow's borders expand
Yaroslavl''s borders expand

Turn 160/473 (1847 AD) [22-Oct-2009 23:58:01]
A Fishing Boats was built near Krasnoyarsk
A Quarry was built near Krasnoyarsk
Yekaterinburg begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
0% Research: 164 per turn
0% Culture: 69 per turn
0% Espionage: 10 per turn
100% Gold: 37 per turn, 91 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg finishes: Bank
Novgorod finishes: Library
Yekaterinburg finishes: Work Boat
Smolensk finishes: Courthouse

Turn 161/473 (1848 AD) [23-Oct-2009 00:04:32]
St. Petersburg begins: Grocer (6 turns)
Novgorod begins: Levee (13 turns)
Smolensk begins: Work Boat (3 turns)
Islam has spread: Khabarovsk
A Workshop was built near Yakutsk
While attacking, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (6.00/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (5.16/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
0% Research: 165 per turn
0% Culture: 72 per turn
0% Espionage: 12 per turn
100% Gold: 52 per turn, 140 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Courthouse
Yaroslavl' finishes: Bank
Vladivostok grows to size 4
Smolensk grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
De Gaulle (France) and Churchill (England) have signed a peace treaty
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Churchill (England), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 162/473 (1849 AD) [23-Oct-2009 00:11:17]
Diplomacy (Embargo Request): De Gaulle (France) asks Stalin (Russia) to stop trading with Churchill (England); Stalin REFUSES.
Moscow begins: Wall Street (9 turns)
Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat II
While attacking, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (5.16/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking, Privateer 31 (Rostov) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 31 (Rostov) (3.84/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
Yaroslavl' begins: Grocer (16 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
0% Research: 169 per turn
0% Culture: 68 per turn
0% Espionage: 14 per turn
100% Gold: 64 per turn, 204 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yekaterinburg finishes: Work Boat
Smolensk finishes: Work Boat

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 163/473 (1850 AD) [23-Oct-2009 00:19:35]
Smolensk begins: Library (9 turns)
Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat II
While attacking, Privateer 30 (Moscow) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 30 (Moscow) (6.00/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
A Lumbermill was built near St. Petersburg
While attacking, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in American territory at Chicago, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (5.22/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) decimates American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in American territory at Chicago, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (6.00/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
A Cottage was built near Vladivostok
While attacking, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.2%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (4.02/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.2%)
100% Research: 482 per turn
0% Culture: 68 per turn
0% Espionage: 14 per turn
0% Gold: -266 per turn, 295 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orenburg grows to size 3
Khabarovsk's borders expand

Turn 164/473 (1851 AD) [23-Oct-2009 00:26:57]
A Farm was built near Novgorod
A Fishing Boats was built near Khabarovsk
While attacking in Barbarian territory near Orenburg, Longbowman 36 (Moscow) (6.00/6) defeats Barbarian Worker (Prob Victory: 99.2%)
A Fishing Boats was built near Orenburg
Yekaterinburg begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
0% Research: 169 per turn
0% Culture: 68 per turn
0% Espionage: 14 per turn
100% Gold: 62 per turn, 50 in the bank

After End Turn:
Rostov finishes: Observatory
Yekaterinburg finishes: Work Boat

Other Player Actions:
A Workshop was destroyed near Novgorod

Turn 165/473 (1852 AD) [23-Oct-2009 00:32:26]
A Windmill was built near Novgorod
A Mine was built near Khabarovsk
A Lumbermill was built near Vladivostok
While attacking, Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) escapes from Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 96.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Varanasi, Privateer 48 (Yekaterinburg) loses to Indian Caravel (1.50/3) (Prob Victory: 96.4%)
While attacking, Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Varanasi, Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) (6.00/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Galleon (Prob Victory: 95.2%)
While attacking just off shore near Boston, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (4.20/6) defeats American Galleon (Prob Victory: 95.2%)
While attacking, Privateer 31 (Rostov) decimates Chinese Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 31 (Rostov) (4.92/6) defeats Chinese Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
While attacking, Privateer 30 (Moscow) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 30 (Moscow) (6.00/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (5.22/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
0% Research: 183 per turn
0% Culture: 68 per turn
0% Espionage: 14 per turn
100% Gold: 61 per turn, 131 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg finishes: Grocer
Yekaterinburg finishes: University

Turn 166/473 (1853 AD) [23-Oct-2009 00:37:59]
Diplomacy (Help Request): Churchill (England) asks Stalin (Russia) for Chemistry; Stalin REFUSES.
St. Petersburg begins: Market (6 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Hermitage (6 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Rifleman (2 turns)
A Workshop was built near Novgorod
Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat II
Bryansk founded
Bryansk begins: Courthouse (162 turns)
Blub Comment Roos too has SM... 3 turns agoMore...

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 05:42 PM

The autolog part 2 Logging by BUFFY 4.0 (BtS 3.17)

[b]Turn 166/473 (1853 AD) [23-Oct-2009 23:14:35]
While attacking, Privateer 30 (Moscow) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Vijayanagara, Privateer 30 (Moscow) (6.00/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking, Privateer 31 (Rostov) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 97.7%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Vijayanagara, Privateer 31 (Rostov) (4.92/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 97.7%)
Golden Age begins
0% Research: 187 per turn
0% Culture: 79 per turn
0% Espionage: 14 per turn
100% Gold: 152 per turn, 204 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Steel
Hypatia (Great Scientist) born in Rostov
Krasnoyarsk grows to size 3

Turn 167/473 (1854 AD) [23-Oct-2009 23:20:23]
Research begun: Railroad (30 Turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Courthouse (4 turns)
A Farm was built near Novgorod
Privateer 31 (Rostov) promoted: Combat V
A Quarry was built near Orenburg
A Lumbermill was built near Vladivostok
Yekaterinburg begins: Rifleman (2 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Settler (7 turns)
100% Research: 546 per turn
0% Culture: 79 per turn
0% Espionage: 14 per turn
0% Gold: -238 per turn, 373 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yekaterinburg finishes: Rifleman
Yakutsk finishes: University
Vladivostok finishes: Courthouse
Bryansk's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'Theocracy' to 'Pacifism'

Turn 168/473 (1855 AD) [23-Oct-2009 23:34:47]
Yakutsk begins: Courthouse (7 turns)
Vladivostok begins: Grocer (10 turns)
While attacking in Barbarian territory near Washington, Knight 1 (10.00/10) defeats Barbarian Worker (Prob Victory: 97.7%)
While attacking, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) decimates American Galleon (Prob Victory: 95.9%)
While attacking in American territory at San Francisco, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (4.20/6) defeats American Galleon (Prob Victory: 95.9%)
0% Research: 122 per turn
0% Culture: 74 per turn
0% Espionage: 16 per turn
100% Gold: 202 per turn, 143 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yakutsk grows to size 9
Vladivostok grows to size 5
Smolensk finishes: Library
Orenburg grows to size 4

Turn 169/473 (1856 AD) [23-Oct-2009 23:41:22]
Smolensk begins: Market (9 turns)
While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates English Galleon (Prob Victory: 96.1%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (4.62/6) defeats English Galleon (Prob Victory: 96.1%)
A Fishing Boats was built near Krasnoyarsk
A Watermill was built near Novgorod
A Fishing Boats was built near Bryansk
St. Petersburg begins: Settler (8 turns)
Novgorod begins: Settler (11 turns)
Tech traded to Gandhi (India): Replaceable Parts
Tech traded to Gandhi (India): Chemistry
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Scientific Method
Tech traded to Roosevelt (America): Replaceable Parts
Moscow begins: Ironworks (9 turns)
Rostov begins: Oxford University (9 turns)
Rostov begins: Courthouse (2 turns)
Vladivostok begins: Forbidden Palace (10 turns)
Research begun: Physics (10 Turns)
100% Research: 540 per turn
0% Culture: 76 per turn
0% Espionage: 16 per turn
0% Gold: -224 per turn, 859 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Physics
Louis Pasteur (Great Scientist) born in Moscow
Moscow finishes: Wall Street
St. Petersburg finishes: Hermitage
Rostov's borders expand
Yekaterinburg grows to size 11
Yekaterinburg finishes: Rifleman
Khabarovsk grows to size 3

Other Player Actions:
While defending in American territory near Nubian, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (2.52/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 86.0%)
While defending in American territory near Nubian, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (2.52/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 86.0%)

Turn 170/473 (1857 AD) [23-Oct-2009 23:56:58]
Research begun: Railroad (9 Turns)
While attacking in Barbarian territory near Washington, Knight 1 (10.00/10) defeats Barbarian Worker (Prob Victory: 86.0%)
A Mine was built near Krasnoyarsk
Privateer 33 (Novgorod) promoted: Combat III
Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat III
Krasnoyarsk begins: Work Boat (4 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Library (13 turns)
100% Research: 546 per turn
0% Culture: 95 per turn
0% Espionage: 16 per turn
0% Gold: -242 per turn, 643 in the bank

After End Turn:
Novgorod grows to size 10
Novgorod finishes: Levee
Krasnoyarsk grows to size 4
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Courthouse

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Barbarian territory near The Holy City, Knight 1 (4.90/10) defeats Barbarian Maceman (Prob Victory: 74.9%)

Turn 171/473 (1858 AD) [24-Oct-2009 00:05:03]
Diplomacy (Tribute Demand): De Gaulle (France) demands that Stalin (Russia) gives Fur; Stalin AGREES.
A Mine was built near Smolensk
100% Research: 548 per turn
0% Culture: 95 per turn
0% Espionage: 18 per turn
0% Gold: -232 per turn, 608 in the bank

After End Turn:
Orenburg finishes: Courthouse

Other Player Actions:
While defending in American territory near Nubian, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (1.14/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 95.7%)
While defending in American territory near Nubian, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (3.42/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 92.4%)
Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 172/473 (1859 AD) [24-Oct-2009 00:14:40]
Orenburg begins: Library (8 turns)
A Mine was built near Yakutsk
A Mine was built near Vladivostok
A Fishing Boats was built near Bryansk

Logging by BUFFY 4.0 (BtS 3.17)

[b]Turn 172/473 (1859 AD) [24-Oct-2009 00:54:50]
100% Research: 553 per turn
0% Culture: 95 per turn
0% Espionage: 20 per turn
0% Gold: -220 per turn, 453 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Russian territory at Orenburg, Frigate 11 (Moscow) (4.16/8) defeats French Privateer (Prob Victory: 89.1%)

Turn 173/473 (1860 AD) [24-Oct-2009 00:57:25]
A Mine was built near Moscow
100% Research: 559 per turn
0% Culture: 95 per turn
0% Espionage: 20 per turn
0% Gold: -219 per turn, 241 in the bank

After End Turn:
Krasnoyarsk grows to size 5

Turn 174/473 (1861 AD) [24-Oct-2009 01:02:53]
A Mine was built near Yakutsk
A Fishing Boats was built near Bryansk
0% Research: 121 per turn
0% Culture: 95 per turn
0% Espionage: 20 per turn
100% Gold: 314 per turn, 30 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yaroslavl' finishes: Grocer
Yakutsk finishes: Courthouse
Smolensk finishes: Market
Bryansk grows to size 3

Turn 175/473 (1862 AD) [24-Oct-2009 01:08:54]
Yaroslavl' begins: Market (12 turns)
Yaroslavl' begins: Harbor (6 turns)
Yakutsk begins: Grocer (8 turns)
Smolensk begins: Grocer (8 turns)
While attacking, Frigate 11 (Moscow) decimates Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in American territory at Seattle, Frigate 11 (Moscow) (6.24/8) defeats Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
A Mine was built near Khabarovsk
A Forest Preserve was built near Vladivostok
Vladivostok begins: Forbidden Palace (1 turns)

BLubmuz

Oct 23, 2009, 06:09 PM

And finally, my notes:
0) I revolted to NH and FM this last turn, you can't even see it the autolog, only in the in-game log... bad lost of beakers, we have to suffer for awhile and to renounce to some hammer to put some more specialist at work... to the next player the choices
1) there's an English Galleon in sight of the stack of privateers N of Coventry (the English copper island) watch it and destroy it!
2) i've almost built the FP in Vladi. It's 1 turn to go, but i put it in queue since we never talk about it. I choosen that location because it's exactly on the other side of the world compared to Moscow and i think it will pay off now rather than in the main continet (France, USA, UK and China) after the war.
3) one of our pillaging knight was attacked by a barb mace and he's badly injured and loaded in the galleon to heal, at least partially. Those guys captured 5 workers (3+2) and pillaged the hell.
4) i was wrong about dG pop in 1854 to ask something. He did 5 turns later asking for furs. I accepted and since he switched to pleased i asked him his gold (80) and he was happy to help. Next player will cancet that deal when appropriate.
5) then i asked to Mao some 130 gold and he was happy too. Next turn i asked G 60 gold, great friendship by that guy :) a nice and happy mate, isn't it? Pity to have to destroy them. :lol:
6) Sorry i was wrong in some previous post, in 1853 the WS was 4 turns away
7) the IW is 3 turns away
8) the OU in Rostov is 3 turns away. I apologize, but despite i verified any city before hit enter, i was distracted (RL) and i forgot to start it for 1 turn :blush:
9) the Hermitage in StPete is in by some turn
10) there're 3 settlers almost ready, the needed rifles to escort and a galleon ready too.
11) we not own land oil in our borders, only in the sea E of Moscow.
12) but the first settler can go next turn to settle on the oil, so it can't be sabotaged by spies or pillaged. I tell you nothing, you'll see where it is.
13) we got 2 sources of Uranium: one near Moscow and one near Vladi (sorry STW, one less forest to protect :p) But i can't risk to see our only sorce sabotaged.
14) 2 privateers blocking around Atlanta were attacked and survived to 2 caravels, but they're badly injured and they are in full retreat to the 4 caravels stacked against them. They can safely heal in Briansk.

No more for now, i'm waiting for STW proposing to crucify me.

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 23, 2009, 08:21 PM

Proposed Strategy:

A Proposed Strategy (good or bad) must be validated either Mathematically or via Test Game Play.

Mathematical Support for a Proposed Strategy:

Mathematical Basis/Argument/Procedure/Proof for a Strategy must be posted to the Team's current SGOTM Thread. It will generally take data from the current Real Game State and extrapolate it into future turns. It should be as simple as possible, but no simpler (whenever that is reasonably possible).

Test Game Support for a Proposed Strategy:

Detailed information that Supports the Strategy from the Test Game must be posted to the Team's current SGOTM Thread. The Initial Test Game Save will be constructed to be as legally and technically close to the Real Game's current State as Possible. A Strategy will be played out on the Test Game until that Strategy's Goals are Achieved. The turns must be saved; autosaves are acceptable. Upon any Member's Request, the relevant Test Game Initial and Final Saves Supporting the Strategy must be posted to the Team's current SGOTM Thread.

Pros and Cons for the Proposed Strategy:

A list of Pros and Cons for the Proposed Strategy must be posted to the Team's current SGOTM Thread.

Discussion of a Proposed Strategy:

Competing Strategies will be discussed on the Team's current SGOTM Thread in a manner the Team Deems Appropriate. No Member may knowingly overstate or understate a Strategy's Pros or Cons.

Selection of a Proposed Strategy:

Competing Strategies will be Voted on in the Team's current SGOTM Thread in a manner the Team Deems Appropriate. In the Event of a Multiple-way Tie, a Run-Off Vote of the Tied Strategies will be taken. In the Event of a Two-way Tie or a Run-Off Tie, the Head of the Team will break the Tie.

Sun Tzu Wu

greatbeyond

Oct 23, 2009, 08:35 PM

Wait a minute, I thought it was my turn to start the fire?

Initially everything looks pretty good. It was a good idea to ask for their Gold. I assume our science has benefited from it.

I didn't think we were building
settlers for awhile, perhaps I didn't read close enough.

I am off now to stock up on bundles of wood and oil for the roast.

greatbeyond

Oct 23, 2009, 09:22 PM

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 23, 2009, 10:33 PM

While it is a good idea to see +1, this is a promotion that should either wait until we are out of decent promotions OR at best given to just ONE Privateer in a stack.

Privateers always get free Sentry. Seeing 3 Tiles in all directions (2 Tiles over Land) is one reason why they are so effective; Another reason is the ability to attack without a DoW.

It's a Pity many more Privateers were not made in the last TS. I understand that Stalin was giving Astronomy to several AI Civ for a few Coins in the last TS as well, shorting the effectiveness of Privateers even more. What a shame.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 24, 2009, 01:41 AM

Introduction:

This TS was a stunning, utter, complete, disaster. I'm so disappointed by the lack of useful progress. I'm especially disappointed that half of the Cities were not building Wealth.

Starting without a Clear Consensus on the PPP:

Fighting among Teams Members resulted in an inferior PPP. More time should have been spent on working out a compromise PPP that may have performed better than either side's Strategy. Isn't that the purpose of having a Team. We can learn from each other rather than reject other's ideas and stagnate using only our own ideas.

Still haven't seen the Test Game Saves used to help determine the PPP:

This is the major sticking point with me. There's a claim that the Strategies planned for the TS were validated by Test Game Saves, but they have never been posted. It's been nearly six times I've asked for them. These same Test Game Saves were allegedly used to very quickly test my Strategies; so quickly, I wonder how someone could test a Strategy so fast and still be sure they are executing the Strategy faithfully. I honestly don't believe my Strategies were tested on a Test Game at all. I asked for the Test Game Save so I could do my own Test Game and prove (augmenting my Mathematical Analysis) that my Strategies work, but none was ever posted. I just never had enough time to get greatbeyond's last Test Game Save modified to match as much as possible the real Game's t156 State. Team Members should be willing to share their Test Game Saves; I just can't understand why anyone would keep a Test Game Save hidden from other Team Members. I thought we were all on the same Team.

Lost Wealth Building Opportunity:

I'd already proven that building Wealth in seven specified Cities would have allowed a sustained Research rate of 66% - that means 2 turns of 100% Research followed by 1 turn of 00% Research and repeat. Note that this without deficit spending (permitted by ill-advised trades for Wealth) and certainly without a Golden Age. Adding in these two factors the Research rate may have approached 90% and Railroad would be nearly completed by now.

I originally computed that building Wealth as previously mentioned would complete Railroad in 27t (from t156) whereas not building Wealth would take 40t (the baseline/benchmark to measure improvement from). Obviously, this calculation has to be rescaled to calibrate with the new base line that includes a 10t Golden Age (Epic/Ancient was 12t; sorry about the confusion) and deficit spending of about 1000 Wealth or more. It's really hard to predict how long it will take to complete Railroad from t175, but I'll estimate that a sustained Research rate of 30% can be maintained + 10% = Research 40% by running about a -50 Wpt deficit on 352 (short by 150W). The Research bar now shows 10t left, but we hit 0 W in 7t, so we have to back down to 30%, thus stretching 10t to 11t. Again, I'm really just making my best guess, because we are 1t left in a Golden Age, but I'd say 11t. TS was 19t + 11t = 30t (from t156) until we get to Railroad as a baseline.

Since our baseline was 40t and improved to 30t via Golden Age and about 1000 Wealth, our baseline % adjustment is 30t / 40t = 3/4. The previous building Wealth turn calculation was 27.5t, adjusted by 3/4, becomes 27.5t * 3/4 = 20.625. This means adding seven Cities building Wealth would have resulted in completing Railroad in 21t (from t156) or in just 2t (t177). Whereas building no Wealth will result in completing Railroad in 30t (from t156) or in 11t (t186). Notice that the difference in turns between the two strategies was 12.5t and now it is just 9t. However, getting Railroad and Mining, Inc. 9t earlier would have been a huge Hammer boost, because each City getting Mining, Inc. could have gotten it 9t sooner.

Ending a TS in a Golden Age (especially with just 1t left):

Ending a TS in a Golden Age will tend to make things look much better than they are without one; Also, ending a TS on the last turn of a Golden Age is the worst for trying to extrapolate the current data to future turns when those future turns are not in a Golden Age.

Vladivostok:

Vladivostok has been ruined by not growing fast enough, building Courthouse and Grocer that do not improve Research, not building University so Oxford University could be built there. Delaying Courthouse until the Research buildings were completed here would be more sensible. Building a Mine on the Uranium is OK, because we do want redundant Uranium Mines; it was the right choice, thought I still hate losing the free Specialist that Tile could have provided with a Forest Preserve. I have little doubt now that we will lose the race against other Teams; Our development of Vladivostok is pathetic and no effort was made to generate the two GS we could have had by t178 to bulb Biology.

Rostov:

Rostov should not be building much of anything, because it should have been supporting 11 Scientists, generating a GS in 9t (t165), another GS in 22t (t178) and a GM in 37t (t193). Note that we could have had two GS in t178 to bulb Biology and start National Park. Note that the GM in t193 should be just before completing Medicine and if we fail to get a GM in t193, we could have gotten one in Vladivostok maybe not too much later.

Great job :goodjob: getting Gifts of Wealth:

The only good thing in the TS was getting a few hundred Wealth by just asking a few AIs for it. I'm never very successful when I try to do this in a Deity game (I rarely play any other level).

Trades:

It was a mistake trading Astronomy (and Steel) for Wealth. Why would we make it easier for AI to kill our Privateers and settle new Islands? It was a bad Trade; we could have easily built more Wealth over the course of 19t than the amount we got in these trades.

Building Research and Wealth buildings in a low Commerce City has a very low ROI:

It hard to find a low Commerce City during a Golden Age, but Orenburg fits just fine. This is the perfect example of a City that should build a Courthouse and then build Wealth and nothing else. Here are the Return on Investment (ROI) for various buildings and their cost:

Market +3.75 Wpt 202H
Grocer +3.75 Wpt 202H
Bank +7.00 Wpt 270H
Library +3.75 Bpt 121H
Obsev. +3.75 Bpt 202H
Univer. +3.75 Bpt 270H

It can build 13 Wpt now and can build more as it grows. Wealth built now goes into the Economy right now.

Take the Library as an example. At 13 Hpt, it would take Orenburg 10t to build a Library that will provide 3.75 Bpt in a Golden Age and 3.00 Bpt without a Golden Age. Maybe it was better to get 10t * 13 Wpt = 130 Wealth rather than a Library that will provide a meager 3.00 Bpt. Maybe it makes more sense to build Wealth until Orenburg's Commerce gets to at least 40 Commerce per turn. Then a Library is worth 10 Bpt and thus worth Building.

Not enough Privateers:

We needed to build more Privateers to do what Privateers do best. ;)

Number of turns in TS:

What happens when Players go 5t beyond their TS? They lose respect and creditability. Also, its rather important to know how to count in this Game.

Other things:

I've hit at least most of the important areas of the TS. No doubt there were other errors in the execution of the TS, but I'm too tired and unmotivated to look for more. Probably, because its so depressing to see how poorly developed Stalin's Civ is for this stage of the Game. No, actually, its more that none of the major ideas I've had for the past two weeks were seriously considered by at least some Members and in some cases were flatly rejected after an apparently cursory examination.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 24, 2009, 02:20 AM

I'm planning to resign from Fifth Element and SGOTM-10.

The last TS was a turning point for me. Although I have plenty to Learn from this Game and would like to continue ... I did my absolute best to help plan this TS, but it was all to no avail ... There is just something wrong with this Game ... I don't feel a Connection any Longer ... How you Play the Game is Really more important than Winning ... And for these Reasons, Sadly, I just can't Continue with this Game or this Team.

Sun Tzu Wu

unclethrill

Oct 24, 2009, 03:16 AM

Please reconsider STW. I agree that the discussion up to this point was not handled well and we all need to work better to see everyone's ideas. While I stand by my choices regarding OU and privateers, I agree that we did not have a firm grasp on the choices that the team wanted as a whole and rushed the playing because of a fear that we were falling behind in time due to the delay.

We all need to work harder to see each other's points of view and to work as a team. Confrontational behaviour never gets others to see your point of view but instead puts people on the defensive resulting in no progress or compromise.

Everyone's input is as important as everyone else's and deserves to be fully considered. All decisions need to have a clear agreement or as STW's rules stated, a clear tie and then it should be the leader's tie breaker.

I believe we can all still work together and be a solid team. We can learn from each other and all still grow as players. We have all been focused on winning instead of focusing on how to be better players. If we concentrate on being better and learning, the winning will come.

Please Stay! I think we can all agree that you have made a huge impact on this team and the game and I personally want to continue to learn from you.

BLubmuz

Oct 24, 2009, 04:01 AM

I expected some fires, but surely not to the point of a resign.

No, please, no!

Still i firmly disagree on all your points.

1) I tested like mad, any possible variation.
2) I don't post the test saves, i got my reasons and surely not to make my teammeates life harder.
3) we can't talk about ROI for buildings in this game. What you (STW) are not realizing is that this game is completely different from any other we have ever play.
- Once Sushi is in, any city will have good commerce or better, wealth generated by specialists.
- To support those much-needed specialists after the war starts (read Emancipation), we need all the possible tructures.
- Market and grocer will also give happiness and health benefits.
- Obs are more valuable than Unis, having the same output, with a specialist unlocked and a minor cost.
4) I think the FP in Vladi is a good idea and its ROI is huge NOW
5) I repeat for the 10th time that the OU in Vladi is plain wrong and you continue to ignore my arguments
6) our privateers are still in use and still harrassing the AI
7) i extended my TS because UT asked me to do so and i posted my intention, giving any one 12 hours to answer
8) i posted also my point about GAge with the same time and GB approved and i've seen you on line while i was posting

I'd like to add that your contribution to this team was, is valuable, can still be valuable.

But your convictions on your points (OU and privateers mainly), which i carefully tested and proved they are wrong driven us to this point.

Since i went deep in the game, after 1940 i know very well what expect and what we need. Only a test game, even not accurate but played until then can show you my points.

I hope it's just a moment of fury, then you'll reconsider.

BLubmuz

Oct 24, 2009, 05:12 AM

Here's the first branch for the bonfire.

While it is a good idea to see +1, this is a promotion that should either wait until we are out of decent promotions OR at best given to just ONE Privateer in a stack. At least two got this when they should have had either +10 strength or Drill 1, 2, or 3 as applicable. These are free strikes before the AI even has a chance to fire back. I also favor Flanking 1 and 2 followed by Nav 1 and 2. Just look at the number of wins are Privateers have compiled. With the right promotions, Privateers are more than a match for anything the AI has until Destroyers.

As soon as Moscow is done with IW starve if necessary and get a GE or GS out ASAP, ~9T use a GE for AL, if a GS, use existing GS for Medicine, finish then GS for Electricity and finish. Hopefully we will then have another GM from Rostov or Vladivostok to use for a TM.

I think the way DG is going, we will need Infantry soon.GB, STW already answered for privateers. The basics! The sentry promo can be avaiable after the Flanking1. But have you ever used them?

To deal with dG we need destroyers more than infantry, but he's almost friendly.
AL is a detour which can cost us a delay in Nukes. It will come after Radio. Also burn a GPerson on less than 1/5 of a tech doesn't make sense.
I showed you how GSs are planned and their use, along with the optimal tech path.

And please stop with that Trade mission thing. Next GM is for Sushi and the bulbs for GSs cannot be choosen: Bio after Physics, Elec after Bio, Fission after Elec.
Only after Fission we can bulb Medicine, but we'll have researched the hard way by then. Next bulb will be Ecology, provided we don't know Radio. After it, we'll use the GPersons for GAges.
This is the plan.

BLubmuz

Oct 24, 2009, 06:14 AM

Building Research and Wealth buildings in a low Commerce City has a very low ROI:

It hard to find a low Commerce City during a Golden Age, but Orenburg fits just fine. This is the perfect example of a City that should build a Courthouse and then build Wealth and nothing else. Here are the Return on Investment (ROI) for various buildings and their cost:

Market +3.75 Wpt 202H
Grocer +3.75 Wpt 202H
Bank +7.00 Wpt 270H
Library +3.75 Bpt 121H
Obsev. +3.75 Bpt 202H
Univer. +3.75 Bpt 270H

It can build 13 Wpt now and can build more as it grows. Wealth built now goes into the Economy right now.

Take the Library as an example. At 13 Hpt, it would take Orenburg 10t to build a Library that will provide 3.75 Bpt in a Golden Age and 3.00 Bpt without a Golden Age. Maybe it was better to get 10t * 13 Wpt = 130 Wealth rather than a Library that will provide a meager 3.00 Bpt. Maybe it makes more sense to build Wealth until Orenburg's Commerce gets to at least 40 Commerce per turn. Then a Library is worth 10 Bpt and thus worth Building.There're other points on this post i want discuss, but let's stop on this.
You're absolutely right. Please don't spend more on this, i absolutely agree.
If this would be a normal game.
This is not, i repeat for 100th time.
Wemust invest now in buildings to have a ROI after Sushi. This city will run 4 merchants, 1 eng, 2-3 scientists. We have no time to build structures if we wait.
I tested, you "building wealth" strategy works fine, but only in the mid term.
In the long term (1900-1920) it's a disaster.
We must think with the "big picture" in front of us.

Vladivostock
I let it grow at best.
Your idea of NP/OU there is completely wrong. It can run the same number of specialists as Rostov around 1900, only thanks to Sushi. By then, "les jeux sont fait".

Consensus/Extension
The consensus was clear:
we're 4 active members. 2 are for a strategy, 2 for another.
In this case, the leader decides.
I'm the leader, i was the active player, what do you want more?
About the GAge/extension i posted my mid-TS plan, UT approved and he asked me in private to play until the last turn of the GAge.
Why? ask him. I accepted, and this bring again to the beginning of this paragraph, with a difference:
we were 2 of the same opinion, GB approved the plan, you (i understand you can't be in CFC all day) didn't posted.
I gave 12 hours then i play. No one complained about this, no one asked to hold.

BLubmuz

Oct 24, 2009, 10:44 AM

Starting without a Clear Consensus on the PPP:

Fighting among Teams Members resulted in an inferior PPP. More time should have been spent on working out a compromise PPP that may have performed better than either side's Strategy. Isn't that the purpose of having a Team. We can learn from each other rather than reject other's ideas and stagnate using only our own ideas.
9 days of discussion and you haven't moved an inch, despite my demonstrations with numbers you was, are wrong!
Those demonstrations was sustained by intensive testing and refining.
Yours too was extensively tested in any possible variation.

While testing i became more conviced of my proposal and found new arguments which you completely ignored.

I'm still convinced you're a good player, despite this. I don't know why you refused to accept the evidence of my conclusions and kept churning out numbers correct in a mid term but wrong in the long term. I don't care to arrive to Railroads 4-5 or even 10 turns earlier, if this preempt the rest of the game.

As i already said, this game will be distinctly divided in 2 phases:
the first (this one) where expasion and research must be pursued. and where expansion penalizes research. Our ability is, must be, to be able to research despite the overexpansion.
A second phase where research will get its output by lots of specialists and fully structured cities. And where production and logistics will be the key.
We can conquer G in 6 turns, but Mao or dG will ask more. Our ability will be a a great plannung for the moves, along with the greater production possible.

In a space race you'll never found cities so distant and/or so poor like we did, but we must live with this, for this game.
In a conquest game you'll never structure cities, just the 4-5 core, you need military, nothing more.
Try to see this like a Conquest-space-race game.

BLubmuz

Oct 24, 2009, 05:05 PM

How you Play the Game is Really more important than Winning
We all need to work harder to see each other's points of view and to work as a team. Confrontational behaviour never gets others to see your point of view but instead puts people on the defensive resulting in no progress or compromise.

We have all been focused on winning instead of focusing on how to be better players. If we concentrate on being better and learning, the winning will come.I'd like to focus on those 2 sentencies.
Playing well the game is what brings you to victory.
To play well is not only good MM and care to trades and to exploit the possibilities the game offers or avoid to be taken with pants down. This is only the one part of a good play. And surely STW proven to be a very good player on this side.
The other part is to see the "big picture", mainly in XotM, more in SGotM.
Those games are unique for their design and conditions, far different compared to games played just for fun or to HoF games.
(i'm speaking of HoF 'cause me, STW and UT are HoF players, mainly).

This is probably the strangest of all the SG i played, even more of the SG8.
The key to victory is the ability to see the final result, not the intermediate achievements.

The way i see our game is that we'll probably arrive later than many teams to Fusion.
But once they will have fusion and not the necessary production (Mining Inc) nor the necessary structures in cities, they will be cooked.
Probably our 10th nuke will be ready by the time the best researching team will have completed his first one. Then i'd like to see how they do for the remaining 40.

What i would mean is that, thanks to my intensive testing and thanks to some very good ideas emerged in this team, many of them driven by STW, until STW's TS we was doin' well as a team. After that TS, something went wrong. I don't want go into details here, i already did previously.

STW, before we could see the first save, i recommended a caravel as first build, to gain the circumnavigation bonus.
You spent lots of posts trying to convince me we need workers, settler, anything but caravels.
After the first TS you was happy to have gained that bonus.
I consider the present querelle in the same way. I know that your reasoning is correct, but mine is better for this game. Better long term results is what we need, we don't care to do well in intermediate goals.

We have only one goal: win this game as soon as possible. Possibly having fun. It's what we're here for.

Last thing:
quoted from AlanH: in the Reference thread
6. The team captain will be responsible for maintaining the roster, and skipping people. He will also be responsible for the nomination of a scribe. He will act as a conduit between the team and the staff. For your team, he is the law.It's probably my fault, i thought it was clear that the team captain or leader will break in case of a tie.
I'll soon update the team rules with this one, but i thought it was clear.
Otherwise, why a leader is here for? Just to update the roster?

And please STW, we're in 4 active players. Culdeus pops up every now and then with some comment but when it's time to play he disappears.
Sweeta never opened a save and Mesix's last post is 1 month old.

greatbeyond

Oct 24, 2009, 07:50 PM

I'm busy composing my thoughts and will post when they are sorted out.

BLubmuz

Oct 25, 2009, 08:23 AM

I'm busy composing my thoughts and will post when they are sorted out.I hope there's nothing we can not work out.
We need to move on, 2 TSs in 17 days is not the pace i like.

And you're UP!

In late game, one single turn can require between 30 and 60 minutes.
I firmly want end the game before 12/07.

Too much time spent on discussions.
I'm fine with discussions if they bring to better results, but not if they bring nowhere.

Below the savings for the FP in Vladi. They will be effective from next turn.
city no FP w/FP n/D
===== ===== ==== =====
Yak 8,72 6,06
Vla 8,39 2,43
Smo 8,75 4,94
Ore 7,82 4,00
Kra 7,85 4,30
Kha 12,58 11,97 noCH
Bry 13,48 8,67 noCH

Total 67,59 42,37 25,22

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 25, 2009, 08:03 PM

Fifth Element Team Members,

The main intention in sending this post is the Clarification of my Reasons for Resigning, but it does touch on many other topics and I beg your indulgence ...

Requirements for a Proposed Strategy:

There is really only one reason why I decided to resign. The failure to implement the procedure defined (or something similar) in post 1121 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8576801&postcount=1121) before the just completed PPP and TS for turns 156-175.

A Resignation, a Gift and a Request:

I knew while writing it, that I would resign within an day or two. Please think of it as my departure gift to you. I hope that you will all take it seriously and incorporate it or something similar into the Team's Rules.

A Key Part of the Requirements for a Proposed Strategy:

The key part of the procedure I mentioned above is the Test Game Saves must be posted to the Team's Thread if any Member requests it. I now realize that this is not sufficient, the Test Game Saves must always be posted to the Team's Thread.

Test Game Saves Not posted to the Team's Thread:

Any Test Game whose Saves have not been posted to the Team's Thread can not be used for any purpose that relates the Team's SGOTM Game. With respect to the Team and their SGOTM Game, such Test Games do not exist, by definition.

Test Game Saves Posted (Published) to the Team's Thread:

Strategies supported by Test Games are analogous to Scientific Methods in Science; They must be published or they can not be taken seriously. (In a SG or SGOTM, "published" in this context means posted just to the Team's Thread) Team Members must be able to run Test Games that support their Strategies (as well as other/competing Strategies) to ensure that all steps of their Strategy are executed properly and to improve their Strategy by adding/removing/modifying steps. When the Test Game Saves corresponding to the competing Strategies are compared by all Members motivated to do so, the Team can more easily come to a consensus of which Strategy is best to use.

A More Open Team Environment:

We need an Team Environment where each Team member can improve his Understanding, Strategy and Play of the Game. We can't do this when one Player tests all competing Strategies and never publishes the corresponding Test Game Saves. There's nothing for the other Team Members to do, except blindly accept the single Test Game Player's Results. To the contrary, all Team Members must be permitted to participate fully in all Turn Sets with the person UP primarily executing the wishes of the Team. Only when every Team Member has access to all Test Game Saves, Mathematical Analyses, Literary Analyses etc. can the Team's Play always exceed the Play of any specific Team Member.

A Personal Note regarding my experience with Team Fifth Element:

I've enjoyed discourse with everyone on the Team immensely. I truly believe that every Member of the Team has something useful to Say and to Play. I regret that I have not spent more time trying to help improve individual Team Member's Play, at least those that are receptive to such assistance. Finally, I must note that through my experience with this Team, I've probably learned more about the Game than I've been able to impart back to Team Members (you) in return.

A Final Clarification about My Strategies versus Other Strategies:

I just want everyone to know that I'm only interested in determining the best Strategy for a given Situation, regardless of Who created, developed or refined it. Of course I'd prefer it to be my own, but I'd never promote my own Strategy over another Strategy that I knew was even just Slightly better.

Apologies:

I apologize for not being more civil (kinder and gentler) with my comments about the latest Turn Set.

Finally, I apologize profusely to the Team, for my Resignation will leave you short handed by one moderately experienced Player. I know this means active Players will go from 4 down to 3 (culdeus, my apologies; I know you are trying to be Active again) and be an extreme hardship for the Team. However, I can not Condone the Way that Strategies for the PPP and TS for turns 156-175 were Selected and must resign as a Result.

My Final Words of Explanation for my Resignation:

Again, it has nothing to do with the specific Strategies selected or the fact that none of my Strategies were Selected; I'm resigning because the Strategy Selection Process itself is Deeply Flawed as it was Executed for the PPP and TS for turns 156-175. The Test Games appeared to be the sole basis for the Selected Strategies. I protested numerous times before the TS was executed, but no Test Game Saves supporting any Strategies were ever posted and as a result I must resign.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 26, 2009, 03:43 AM

unclethrill

Oct 26, 2009, 12:22 PM

How many turns on this TS?

culdeus

Oct 26, 2009, 12:29 PM

unclethrill

Oct 26, 2009, 01:23 PM

I do agree that we could do a better job of specializing our cities.
I also agree that the tech path should be mostly finalized before starting. To that end, things do need to change based on in-game occurrences. There are no ways to predict what trades may occur for example. Things such as whether we tech directly to Fission or stop along the way to get a couple corps should have probably been decided but again this has to be changed based on the map. These maps are highly modified usually and we can all decide that Sid's is a great idea based on seeing 15 squares on the start but untill the map is revealed and city sites are mostly locked down, there is no way to tell for sure if the resources are actually available.

With that said, I think in this game our biggest problem and what will likely be our downfall (if we don't place) will be the lack of REXing in the beginning like we all agreed upon. Getting 8 or 10 cities out before T100 would have put us in a better position I think, but at this point it is moot. We have what we have and need to make the best of it.

We may not have as much culture as some teams but they are probably lacking the techs that we have. We may not be as powerful as some teams but again we are likely more tech advanced. We may not be as tech advanced as some teams but we have an infrastructure built to support a massive and quick military build up.

We are doing fine in my opinion and if nothing else we are the one team most likely to finish on time which should count for something.

BLubmuz

Oct 26, 2009, 01:34 PM

UT, please draw a PPP until t188. Many things will happen, better play without the need to stop and ask.

unclethrill

Oct 26, 2009, 02:07 PM

BLubmuz

Oct 26, 2009, 03:50 PM

Finally got the save open and I have a couple questions before I move on with my PPP.

1. So why did you stop the FP in Vlad with 1 turn left? Am I supposed to finish on turn 1 or are there reasons to wait?
2. Why are we building a Grocer now in Vlad? We don't need the health yet. Wouldn't an Obs or Uni be a better choice for the research? Is it based on the fact that we run more wealth turns than research?
3. We have 3 settlers almost finished. Are we planning to settle all 3 immediately? I would rather do that but I want to know what the plan is before I do it.
4. Why are we building the roads in odd places? Nothing better for them to do?
5. I thought we had 3 knights looking for slave labor? Am I remembering wrong? I only see 2 on the boat.

These are the questions I couldn't find in the previous posts. So BLubz what is the plan/reason on these? I'll have a PPP up in the next 6 hours or so and will plan to play in 24-30 if there is no major heartburn.Answers:
1) I didn't stopped it: i only reversed the queue to avoid mistakes by next player if we decided to not build it. Seen the results in my tests, just switch in reverse to complete it next turn.

2) Yes, after the library, good 'cause it's cheap and have a good ROI, i prioritize wealth buildings: Market, Grocer Bank in this order. The reason is we're running over 1/2 of turns @ 0 resarch.

3) we have also 3 rifles ready, but only one galleon, thus one settler will remain idle for a couple turns. My priorities are:
a) Oil,
b) Silver,
c) Sheep.
And, yes, settle ASAP.

4) Yes, nothing better at the moment. They will spare some turn. Instead to keep them idle i prefer to build roads. I also built mines in hills outside the BFC, in the hope to pop some resource.

5) I've found 2, and kept those. If they capture a single worker they can load all next turn. I used the other galleon (the one for site 7) to ferry the workers North. Once they complete their tasks they can go south, stop in Vladi, then go in Yakutsk or directly in the Stone area (Oremburg/Smolensk).

If you capture more workers than you can ferry, ferry them in one of the american cities (maybe Atlanta) then use the other galleon to gather them.

Next turn try to find some city where you can put engineers at work. Revolting to FM saved us 1 turn of anarchy, but we have to sacrifice for some turns. We gained one trade route/city and generally more commerce from them, so we'll compensate with more turns of research.

unclethrill

Oct 26, 2009, 04:57 PM

Tech:

RR -> Bio (one bulb)

GP:

Found MI in Moscow
After GM in Rostov, switch back to sci.

Workers:
Roads, WS, FP, LM, RR as necessary

Cities:

Yek: Finish Settler, WB (for new city whales), CH, Harbor, MIxec, Drydock, wealth
Vlad : Finish FP, Grocer, harbor
Settle Site 9, Bring LB and worker with: CH
Settle Site 10, RM, worker: CH
Kras: Finish Lib, Harbor, market
Moscow: Finish IW, Obs, MIxec x 4
SP: Finihs settler, Obs, Market
Novo: finish ..., Grocer, obs
Rostov: Finish OU, Research.
Yarlov: Finish Harbor, Market
Bransk: Market
Oren: Market
Yak: Bank
Smol: Harbor
Khab: Grocer

Units:

Galleon with knights patrol for workers

Diplo:

Trade sugar to Roos or Mao for best deal

Corp:

First MI exec to Yek, then SP, then Rostov, then Novo

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 26, 2009, 10:23 PM

I continue to mostly lurk here. This has been a tough game to follow as I'm usually a conquest/dom/diplo player. I rarely get into games that tech this far because my computer struggles to handle the drawing towards the end. That, and I find some of the MM aspects to be cumbersome.

To that end I have had little to add in the way of an opinion on many of these matters in one way or the other to provide some sort of consensus. I've played off and on with this group for awhile now and I think the weakness is versus the other teams is the complexity of the plan(s) is(were) much too high. This leads to difficulty getting to a consensus among all members as there isn't always even 3 things to choose from. Sometimes every member has a distinctly different plan. It's for this reason primarily I haven't really felt comfortable jumping in.

One thing that has been missing in FE for some time and what probably will guarantee never getting a medal is there isn't a unified game plan. Lots of teams take a look at each city and map out virtually every single fixed build from t0-t999 based on the goals and uses each city has. At the same time the worker improvement order is also put together.

The tech path is almost assuredly worked out well before t0 goes off and is not usually deviated from.

When those things are taken out of the equation mostly the discussions can center around military strategy and diplomatic trading strategy which is IMO the strength of many people here. It's by far and away the largest strength the group has versus the human teams. That's for sure.

It's frustrating to see someone 200 posts ago seemingly get agreement on one issue and then 200 posts later see that it was ignored or changed. It's tough and I can certainly see where the problems are happening here.

I agree 100% with everything culdeus stated above. We have made some great moves, but we have often focused on 1-2 aspects of the Game to the exclusion/neglect of others for one or more TSs, then realize we have neglected another aspect of the Game and address it for a few TSs, etc. As a result, our Game Play has never been quite optimal or even close to optimal.

One example of our poor planning is although we completed Education around turn 25, we still don't have Oxford University completed by turn 175! We have got to be the absolute slowest Team with regard to completing Oxford University. There's also the delayed Academy we built in Rostov that would have provided many more Beakers at a more critical time in our development; we should have used our 2nd GS to build it. We also have no plan of optimally building Wealth in low Commerce Cities to significantly boost Research = 2-3 times what Oxford University in Rostov could provide and then transition Wealth building to Cities that have built all the Buildings we want; I predict that the SGOTM-10 Top Three Award Winners will use this technique that our Team Leader rejected.

I know some of the players on the opposing Team via Playing against them in HOF Gauntlets. They are extremely sharp and focused; they will plan ahead with several different Contingencies and their Strategies probably flow smoothly from TS to TS as though a single Player were in control at all times unlike our Game. It would not surprise me if their Research rate were consistently 50% higher than ours. The Top Three Teams will also know how to compromise on questions of Strategy with optimal Results, unlike Fifth Element.

Sadly, the issues that culdeus and I have prompt up will never be addressed until All Members and the Leader acknowledge them and take effective action to resolve them.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 26, 2009, 10:54 PM

Sun Tzu Wu

Oct 26, 2009, 11:27 PM

STW, i've seen. I PMed you to try to go in deep and to invite you to stay.

In case you won't change your mind, please inform the Staff in the Maintenance thread.
Only the player ifself can officially resign. But i'm still hoping you'll reconsider.

BLubmuz and unclethrill, thank you for your kind statements encourageing me to Remain on the Team.

Sadly, I must Resign and will make that official in the Maintenance thread in a few minutes. Thanks, BLubmuz, for your kind direction to the Maintenance thread so I could make my Resignation official.

Thanks BLubmuz, culdeus, greatbeyond, Mesix, Sweetacshon, unclethrill! I had a wonderful time, but that time is now up.

Sun Tzu Wu

BLubmuz

Oct 27, 2009, 09:32 AM

BLubmuz

Oct 27, 2009, 09:51 AM

Tech:

RR -> Bio (one bulb)
OK, of course, but wait to found the 2 closer cities, so we'll gain some beakers
GP:

Found MI in Moscow
After GM in Rostov, switch back to sci.
ca va sans dire
Workers:
Roads, WS, FP, LM, RR as necessary

Cities:

Yek: Finish Settler, WB (for new city whales), CH, Harbor, MIxec, Drydock, wealth
Vlad : Finish FP, Grocer, harbor
Settle Site 9, Bring LB Rifleman! and worker with: CH
Settle Site 10, RM, worker: CH if RM is for Rifleman, OK
Kras: Finish Lib, Harbor, market
Moscow: Finish IW, Obs, MIxec x 4 x1, then SoL
SP: Finihs settler, Obs, Market
Novo: finish ..., Grocer, obs
Rostov: Finish OU, Research.
I think wealth is better, but the hammers are close to nothing. you can hire 2 more sci by working 2 sea tiles instead of the mines and WS
Yarlov: Finish Harbor, Market
Bransk: Market
Oren: Market
Yak: Bank
Smol: Harbor
Khab: Grocer

Units:

Galleon with knights patrol for workers

Diplo:

Trade sugar to Roos or Mao for best deal

Corp:

First MI exec to Yek, then SP, then Rostov, then Novo

Demo is on the table. Unless Chur decides to trade it, you can trade Steel to G.
He will accept if we add 120gold. But wait until you can found Mining Inc. or the turn before.
Then you'll build an executive, then the SoL. Too huge to renounce.
We need it in any case for Emancipation.

Settlers priorities: Sheep, oil, Silver. In other words, start from 10 > 9 > 8
Site 8 will use the workers you'll ferry from the north once they'll have completed their tasks. Bring just the rifle with the settler. Found immediately! With 4 TR a new city will pay for its maintenance.
Start move the rifle from StPete in Novgorod.

I'm suggesting this choice because of their production capabilities:
site 10 can start with a lumbermill and sheeps (you can unload the worker directly on the forest)
site 9 will work whales and hire an eng
site 8 will hire an Artist until expands to silver, work 1 seatile.
those 3 sites will benefit from Sushi mainly, stealing tiles to G and the barbs.

culdeus

Oct 27, 2009, 12:35 PM

You're right, we not start with a well detailed plan. If we never popped a GE Mining inc would not be an option, so we probably never deviated to Railroad. But we did and we changed our plan accordingly. Also Sushi seems to be a good option, worth another deviation. Wrong? we'll see. But surely all the team agreed on those deviations.
They can be the key to victory or to another middle of the pack placement. We can't know.

I'd like to know 2 things from you:
1) can you play at least until your PC can handle this, say until before the war?
2) what do you mean with the last paragraph? i took a look around the time you defined (some 200 posts ago) but i've found nothing. Please tell me.

1) Yeah, I can play. This map has enough water tiles that I should have no problem with it. And for some reason maybe buffy provides some lifting of computer stress because I have had much less speed problems since buffy, but perhaps the patch did something? I never really investigated the patch changes, or what buffy does to the engine, if anything.

2) I wasn't speaking of anything specific, but it does seem like lots of good ideas get proposed and then are sort of forgotten about maybe because we have in some cases 2-3x the posts of other teams. This TS wasn't the first either that a good plan was proposed and not followed. Seems to be a regular occurrence so short term there are issues as well.

As to deviations, yes there will be some each game, but it seems like this team goes for the "bright shiny object" far too easily. In general it would seem most teams basically plot out through simulation and tests:

-Minimum beakers to win
-Minimum hammers to win

Then they would take an approach to generate as many beakers as possible or hammers as possible depending on which one was limiting. Those are the deviations. It is fairly easy to determine if the cost to get more of one or the other is worth it. If you look back on what I recall was SGOTM5 (the one with the early zulu war where you had to win with domination maybe) the top teams said "The key to win is getting to Astro by 1AD" and then sacrificed everything to that effort. If it didn't help to that end it was discarded. Those sorts of long term discussions don't happen here or are rarely followed thru on.

I just don't know how much corps will help. I think the limiting factor in the conquest is the land troops and transports, not nukes at this point. Our core three cities might pump nukes out at a rate that exceeds our conquest speed. All that time and hammers might be better used to build those capacities. It's just a gut feel at this point.

unclethrill

Oct 27, 2009, 01:17 PM

I forgot to bring my computer to work tonight so I will not be able to play until wednesday night. I hope nobody has a problem with that. I wouldn't mind a little more feedback on my PPP too.

BLubmuz

Oct 27, 2009, 01:39 PM

1) Yeah, I can play. This map has enough water tiles that I should have no problem with it. And for some reason maybe buffy provides some lifting of computer stress because I have had much less speed problems since buffy, but perhaps the patch did something? I never really investigated the patch changes, or what buffy does to the engine, if anything.

2) I wasn't speaking of anything specific, but it does seem like lots of good ideas get proposed and then are sort of forgotten about maybe because we have in some cases 2-3x the posts of other teams. This TS wasn't the first either that a good plan was proposed and not followed. Seems to be a regular occurrence so short term there are issues as well.

As to deviations, yes there will be some each game, but it seems like this team goes for the "bright shiny object" far too easily. In general it would seem most teams basically plot out through simulation and tests:

-Minimum beakers to win
-Minimum hammers to win

Then they would take an approach to generate as many beakers as possible or hammers as possible depending on which one was limiting. Those are the deviations. It is fairly easy to determine if the cost to get more of one or the other is worth it. If you look back on what I recall was SGOTM5 (the one with the early zulu war where you had to win with domination maybe) the top teams said "The key to win is getting to Astro by 1AD" and then sacrificed everything to that effort. If it didn't help to that end it was discarded. Those sorts of long term discussions don't happen here or are rarely followed thru on.

I just don't know how much corps will help. I think the limiting factor in the conquest is the land troops and transports, not nukes at this point. Our core three cities might pump nukes out at a rate that exceeds our conquest speed. All that time and hammers might be better used to build those capacities. It's just a gut feel at this point.Surely Mining Inc is a winning move. Not so sure for Sushi. It's a full detour, but we can grow good size cities and run many specialists.
In this game we have a double bottleneck: research first, production when you need nukes. Mining Inc is surely a good solution. OTOH our detours give us the time to pop GSs, so they can be immediately useful for the main path techs. Bio is useless for the main path, but you can't have Chem (much needed for frigates and privateers) and use a GS for Electricity. And you can't avoid Chem if you have GP. But i feel better with rifles.
What if we chosen the shortest path and be DoWed by dG or Mao or again by G without nothing better than knights and caravels?

I don't know, time will tell us.

unclethrill

Oct 27, 2009, 02:37 PM

To be polite and respective of all Members, Members should not be sending Personal Messages to each other about the Game. All communication should be to the Team's Thread, unless the communication it is of a truly personal nature that no one else on the Team should see. Two or more Members should not be discussing the Game via Personal Messages to exclude other Members from the discussion; such a discussion belongs on the Team's Thread where All Members can participate in it.

In particular, I do not agree that it was OK for unclethrill to PM our Leader, encouraging him to extend his TS by 5t. He should have communicated this via the Team's Thread so All Members would be quickly aware of it, assuming they have e-mail alerts setup for the Team's Thread or just happen to be browsing the Team's Thread. Extending the TS by 5t is a separate issue.

Sun Tzu Wu

Just want to clarify a point here that STW keeps harping on. BLubz and I talk via Instant messenger on a regular basis. If we happen to discuss something related to the game then we also post it in the forum. In this instance, BLubz stated in his PPP that he would be playing 15 turns to help make up for some of the lost time. After he played some turns, he decided that a GA was the best choice. He and I were chatting and I said that I would prefer him to play out all the turns in the GA since he has a solid handle on what he wants to accomplish in the GA. This would only extend his TS by 5 turns.

He clearly stated in his mid-TS post that he was going to start a GA and that he would like to extend his TS through the end of the GA. It is a few pages back and quotes don't capture the Timestamps but he waited nearly 10 hours and there was no response from other team members on any of his mid-TS post so he continued to play , I believe under the assumption that either no one else minded or cared enough to post. He then extended his TS to 19 turns (4 extra).

His extension was not solely based on a conversation in instant messenger and in his post he clearly stated that he was going to use a GA, he would like to extend and that he had my support if the extension was fine with everyone else.

He did have my support and nobody else chimed in with any dissenting opinions.

While I agree with Cul that some of the decisions in this game have been sporadic, we have dwindled from a team of 7 (IIRC) to a group of 2 regular players, 2 sporadic commenters, 1 lurker, and 1 MIA. BLubz and I are doing our best to keep this game moving along at a pace that will allow us to both finish by the due date and afford us time to concentrate on the turns of war as they will be the hardest to work through.

I know that we all have RW obligations, hell I have 4 kids, a full-time job, full-time school, and I live in a foreign country where I barely speak the language, but we should all do our best to at least log in and comment on current events every day or two.

Maybe BLubz did jump the gun on the GA decisions and waiting for responses but in his defense we were about 14 days out of playing the TS and really needed to complete the TS in a timely fashion.

culdeus

Oct 28, 2009, 12:08 PM

Two teams are already in a steep power ramp.

BLubmuz

Oct 28, 2009, 01:18 PM

Two teams are already in a steep power ramp.I've seen.
Then i investigated with the trick of the member profile. Don't worry, they're closer to fusion, but far from nukes. If i well understood one of them doesn't even have Rifling.

I'd like to see how they build and transport them. Not mentioning with what units they will fight. ICBM only? 2 of them clean a city if without bunkers and shelters. But then they have to keep it. :D

greatbeyond

Oct 28, 2009, 07:17 PM

Lot's of work and no play makes a frustrated civ player. I'll try not to harp too much on what is past....

I did respond to the mid TS post and questioned if the GA had already been started or was being considered. Blubmuz didn't reply but he may have been busy. Either way decisions that are that significant deserve a little more time.

The extra turns, while unexpected is not such a problem.

Comments and planning:
Perhaps what is not realized, is that one gets tired of speaking and never being heard. If we are not going to explore various alternatives then why bother bringing them up. If the path has already been decided for us, then we just need to go through the motions and go full speed ahead.

We can finish without a problem, even if it means more turns per TS. I have played this through at least 15 times and the war is not that complicated.

I agree with both STW and Culdeus that our planning has been less than perfect. This should be a learning experience for the team. I also mentioned about keeping the practice game up to date with the real game. Keep this in mind for the next game.

As far as the PPP, I don't see any major problems. We want to emphasize wealth (to keep research up) and science until we reach the ability to launch Nukes. Then we sacrifice everything for production.
City production can be dictated by what we are going to use that city for. We will find that only a few cities will be able to contribute significantly to our war effort. Others will take on the role of producing wealth to keep us going.

Future questions:
Our tech path after Bio?
who will we DOW first, second, etc...?
will we use 1 or 2 Nukes per city? I favor two.
Will we use newly built units or will we upgrade?
Which cities will build which units and when?
Do we build Transports as soon as we can and stockpile them.
Will we try to limit our DOW to 1 AI at a time, and how do we prevent other AIs from DOW us once we use our first Nuke? Usually by getting them to DOW our targeted AI first.

I know I will be surprised by the creativity some teams will show to get to a winning result.

BLubmuz

Oct 29, 2009, 03:05 AM

Future questions:
1) Our tech path after Bio?
2) who will we DOW first, second, etc...?
3) will we use 1 or 2 Nukes per city? I favor two.
4) Will we use newly built units or will we upgrade?
5) Which cities will build which units and when?
6) Do we build Transports as soon as we can and stockpile them.
7) Will we try to limit our DOW to 1 AI at a time, and how do we prevent other AIs from DOW us once we use our first Nuke? Usually by getting them to DOW our targeted AI first.

8) I know I will be surprised by the creativity some teams will show to get to a winning result.IIRC i didn't answered to you 'cause you was approving my mid-TS plan. At that point i has the support of 2 members out of 4, so i didn't bother.

1) Tech path will be Medicine after Bio, since we decided for Sushi, which in my tests proves to go beyond our expectations in usefulness. Not only it will help research in the pre-nukes phase, but also production after it. We can convert all the farms to WM or WS and afford unealthy cities without worry to lose population.
Then i've found better go for Combustion > Flight before Elec > Fission.
6) We don't need many transports, i think 8-12 can do the job. We need destroyers and subs and a carrier loaded.
4) The only units we'll upgrade will be galleons to transports.
3) We will use 1 nuke/city, unless we have some spare one for the last cities. They are the bottleneck. We'll build Tacs and we'll load into subs or rebase them as needed.
We'll build some ICBM, i think 5-7 can avoid us to spend too much time in positioning subs. We need some for sure, some French and chinese city can't be reached by a Tac. Also, using too many nukes can create unpleasant side effects, like radioactive clouds and so on. If we spare some, we'll use on tha last cities if we can.
2-7) G, of course and his cities will help the war effort with MI spreaded and the land cleaned and improved. Then we'll take some turn of break and go after Roos. Before finish him, we'll after Mao and when he will be down to 3-4 cities we'll start with the last, dG. No need to complicated diplo strategies: we're the main power and we'll do what we want. If someone will DoW us, the better, we'll save WW. But i doubt so.
5) Any city will have an airport and will contribute to the war effort. The ability to airlift units in new conquered cities and in the nearby ones will save us the need to use too many transports and to have too many units outside our borders.

Consider this answer as the team strategy guideline.
I'll be surprised too from the creativity of some team, i guess. But his time i guess that being too creative will be their ruin.

culdeus

Oct 29, 2009, 07:59 AM

1) Fine, seems ok. I'll trust this is right path
6)yes, some of transport capacity I'm worried about is nuke transport capacity. Should have made that more clear.
4)ok. Yes, and still plan on drafting quite a bit?
3)The double nuke thing can be held out for the new BTS War AI that tends to just create a "last stand" city, if applicable. With water landings if you land in two spots the AI doesn't behave like that.
2-7) Need to examine friend screen and upset Ghandi's greatest friend as much as possible before DOW. That is probably only way we get a free one.
5) How long to get an airport built in a nuked city? What's reasonable here? I don't think every city can afford one or would one be needed. This is why I like London for first strike. That's perfect lifting city both for sea and air.

BLubmuz

Oct 29, 2009, 09:55 AM

Culdeus, you didn't play last SG, so you're not familiar with airports. I mean we'll have an airport in any of our cities and probably in the best 2 former Indian ones. Surely any city will take after India will be almost useless. Time to go out of revolt and to build a couple needed structures (CH and Forge if we don't find them there) and the game is over.

No at least in my test i never used the draft. A unit with 1 XP or maybe 3 after we have the Pentagon, is not so useful if not to keep it in a city. But we'll see.

London? I guess dG will take it, thus it will be one of the last cities. It never come out of revolt.

BLubmuz

Oct 29, 2009, 02:43 PM

@ Culdeus and Greatbeyond
can you please post when you can have a window to play?
UT informed me that he should play tonight, so please give me something to put together a roster.

unclethrill

Oct 29, 2009, 03:40 PM

Played to T188

Here are the notes:

1. 3 Caravel killed
2. dG stopped trade fish for 7g;
3. Traded whales to dG for 12/turn (new city will bring in a new whale source)
4. Traded sugar to Roos for 5/turn
5. Our frigate killed a privateer
6. Settled Tver (site 10).
7. Got more whales
8. Killed 2 more Caravel
9. GM born in Rostov. Switched back to Sci
10. Founded NovoSib
11. Killed caravel
12. Traded steel +120 for Demo to G
13. Discover RR
14. Founded MI in Moscow
15. Bulbed Bio to 3 turns
16. 2 privs killed
17. Killed Church Galleon
18. Lost 2 more Priv
19. Founded Mag
20. Discovered Bio
21. Sank Galleon
22. Spread MI to Yek
23. Spread MI to SP

Founded the last 3 cities. Founded MI. Discover 2 techs. Traded for 1. Finished OU, IW, FP.

unclethrill

Oct 29, 2009, 03:42 PM

Session Log

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1862 AD to 1875 AD:

Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) (8.80) vs Barbarian's Galley (2.40)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 452, 1862 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 11 (89/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 36 (64/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 11 (78/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 36 (28/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 36 (0/100HP)
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin adopts Nationhood!
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin adopts Free Market!
Turn 452, 1862 AD: You have trained a Settler in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 452, 1862 AD: You have constructed Forbidden Palace in Vladivostok. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 452, 1862 AD: Stalin's Golden Age has ended...

Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (9.00) vs Churchill's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: -50%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) has defeated Churchill's Caravel!
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (6.98) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (84/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (6.62) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (79/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (66/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (53/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 453, 1863 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 453, 1863 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 453, 1863 AD: You have constructed a Library in Krasnoyarsk. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 453, 1863 AD: De Gaulle adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) (7.80) vs Churchill's Caravel (3.00)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 454, 1864 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 12 (88/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 31 (69/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 31 (38/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 31 (7/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 31 (0/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) has defeated Churchill's Caravel!
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (7.92) vs Churchill's Caravel (3.00)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 454, 1864 AD: (Extra Combat: -50%)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 32 (68/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 12 (76/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 32 (36/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 32 (4/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 12 (64/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 32 (0/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) has defeated Churchill's Caravel!
Turn 454, 1864 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 454, 1864 AD: De Gaulle's Privateer (7.20) vs Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) (11.20)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Combat Odds: 9.0%
Turn 454, 1864 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 454, 1864 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) has defeated Unknown's Privateer!

Turn 455, 1865 AD: Tver' has been founded.
Turn 455, 1865 AD: You have constructed Ironworks in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Observatory.
Turn 455, 1865 AD: You have trained a Settler in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Observatory.
Turn 455, 1865 AD: You have trained a Settler in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Observatory.
Turn 455, 1865 AD: You have constructed Oxford University in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 455, 1865 AD: Hinduism has spread in Yakutsk.
Turn 455, 1865 AD: Gandhi adopts State Property!

Turn 456, 1866 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (7.80) vs Churchill's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 456, 1866 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) has defeated Churchill's Caravel!
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (7.80) vs Churchill's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 456, 1866 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Churchill's Caravel!
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Marco Polo (Great Merchant) has been born in Rostov (Stalin)!
Turn 456, 1866 AD: Roosevelt adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 458, 1868 AD: Novosibirsk has been founded.
Turn 458, 1868 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (7.80) vs Churchill's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 458, 1868 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 458, 1868 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 458, 1868 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 458, 1868 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 458, 1868 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 458, 1868 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 458, 1868 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 458, 1868 AD: Churchill's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 458, 1868 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) has defeated Churchill's Caravel!
Turn 458, 1868 AD: You have discovered Railroad!
Turn 458, 1868 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 458, 1868 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Bryansk. Work has now begun on a Market.

Turn 459, 1869 AD: You have discovered Democracy!
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Moscow.
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Mining Inc has brought +15?-11? to Moscow. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Mining Inc has been incorporated in Moscow!
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin has completed Mining Inc!
Turn 459, 1869 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 459, 1869 AD: You have constructed a Library in Orenburg. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Christianity has spread in Novosibirsk.
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate (9.60) vs Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (8.40)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Combat Odds: 70.3%
Turn 459, 1869 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate has defeated Stalin's Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg)!
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate (8.00) vs Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (7.30)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Combat Odds: 67.8%
Turn 459, 1869 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 20 (67/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 20 (47/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 20 (27/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 20 (7/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod) is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 459, 1869 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate has defeated Stalin's Privateer 33 (Novgorod)!
Turn 459, 1869 AD: Gandhi's Golden Age has ended...

Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (7.80) vs Churchill's Galleon (4.80)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Combat Odds: 95.9%
Turn 460, 1870 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Churchill's Galleon is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Churchill's Galleon is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Churchill's Galleon is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Churchill's Galleon is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Churchill's Galleon!
Turn 460, 1870 AD: The borders of Yakutsk have expanded!
Turn 460, 1870 AD: You have constructed a Grocer in Yakutsk. Work has now begun on a Bank.
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Churchill adopts Emancipation!
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Churchill adopts Pacifism!
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate (8.80) vs Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) (9.60)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Combat Odds: 32.6%
Turn 460, 1870 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: (Extra Combat: +50%)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov) is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate has defeated Stalin's Privateer 31 (Rostov)!
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate (8.00) vs Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) (8.40)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Combat Odds: 34.8%
Turn 460, 1870 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow) is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 460, 1870 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate has defeated Stalin's Privateer 30 (Moscow)!

Turn 461, 1871 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 461, 1871 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Grocer.

Turn 462, 1872 AD: Magadan has been founded.
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) (7.20) vs De Gaulle's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 462, 1872 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: De Gaulle's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: De Gaulle's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: De Gaulle's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (48/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: De Gaulle's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated De Gaulle's Caravel!
Turn 462, 1872 AD: You have discovered Biology!
Turn 462, 1872 AD: You have trained Mining Inc Executive in Moscow. Work has now begun on Mining Inc Executive.
Turn 462, 1872 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Krasnoyarsk. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate (8.00) vs Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (7.80)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Combat Odds: 64.0%
Turn 462, 1872 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Mao Zedong's Frigate!
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate (8.00) vs Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (7.80)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Combat Odds: 64.0%
Turn 462, 1872 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Mao Zedong's Frigate is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 462, 1872 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Mao Zedong's Frigate!

Turn 463, 1873 AD: Bryansk has grown to size 8.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: De Gaulle has 230 gold available for trade.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Gandhi has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Yekaterinburg.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Mining Inc has brought +15?-10? to Yekaterinburg. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (6.63) vs Roosevelt's Galleon (4.00)
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Combat Odds: 96.1%
Turn 463, 1873 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (71/100HP)
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 14 (57/100HP)
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Galleon!
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Your Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has destroyed a Galleon!
Turn 463, 1873 AD: You have constructed a Grocer in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: You have constructed a Grocer in Vladivostok. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: You have constructed a Grocer in Smolensk. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Khabarovsk. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 463, 1873 AD: Buddhism has spread in Bryansk.

Turn 464, 1874 AD: Roosevelt has 60 gold available for trade.
Turn 464, 1874 AD: Gandhi won't trade Communism
Turn 464, 1874 AD: You have trained Mining Inc Executive in Moscow. Work has now begun on Mining Inc Executive.

Turn 465, 1875 AD: De Gaulle has 310 gold available for trade.
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into St. Petersburg.
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Mining Inc has brought +15?-9? to St. Petersburg. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Bryansk will grow to size 9 on the next turn.

unclethrill

Oct 29, 2009, 03:44 PM

Autolog:

Logging by BUFFY 4.0 (BtS 3.17)

------------------------------------------------

[b]Turn 175/473 (1862 AD) [29-Oct-2009 22:26:28]

Vladivostok begins: Grocer (10 turns)

Vladivostok begins: Harbor (6 turns)

Smolensk begins: Harbor (5 turns)

Orenburg begins: Grocer (16 turns)

Krasnoyarsk begins: Harbor (8 turns)

Krasnoyarsk begins: Market (14 turns)

Khabarovsk begins: Grocer (21 turns)

Bryansk begins: Market (101 turns)

Moscow begins: Observatory (4 turns)

St. Petersburg begins: Observatory (5 turns)

St. Petersburg begins: Market (5 turns)

Novgorod begins: Observatory (5 turns)

Novgorod begins: Grocer (5 turns)

Yaroslavl' begins: Market (12 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Work Boat (1 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Galleon (2 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Harbor (3 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Grocer (4 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Market (4 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Grocer (4 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Market (4 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Courthouse (4 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Grocer (4 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Market (4 turns)

Yakutsk begins: Bank (10 turns)

Research begun: Biology (5 Turns)

100% Research: 542 per turn

0% Culture: 95 per turn

0% Espionage: 27 per turn

0% Gold: -188 per turn, 352 in the bank

After End Turn:

Yekaterinburg finishes: Settler

Vladivostok finishes: Forbidden Palace

Golden Age ends

Turn 176/473 (1863 AD) [29-Oct-2009 22:50:36]

A Workshop was built near Bryansk

A Forest Preserve was built near Vladivostok

While attacking in Barbarian territory at The Holy City, Knight 1 (7.90/10) defeats Barbarian Worker (Prob Victory: 0.0%)

While attacking, Privateer 31 (Rostov) decimates English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.9%)

While attacking in English territory near Agra, Privateer 31 (Rostov) (5.28/6) defeats English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.9%)

While attacking, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.3%)

While attacking in American territory near Washington, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (5.04/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.3%)

While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)

While attacking in American territory near Washington, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (3.18/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.1%)

100% Research: 450 per turn

0% Culture: 99 per turn

0% Espionage: 27 per turn

0% Gold: -155 per turn, 164 in the bank

After End Turn:

Yekaterinburg finishes: Work Boat

Krasnoyarsk grows to size 6

Krasnoyarsk finishes: Library

Bryansk grows to size 4

Other Player Actions:

Civics Change: De Gaulle(France) from 'Theocracy' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 177/473 (1864 AD) [29-Oct-2009 23:04:21]

Diplomacy: De Gaulle (France) cancels trade of Gold Per Turn (11) to Stalin (Russia) for Fish

A Mine was built near Yekaterinburg

A Workshop was built near Bryansk

While attacking, Privateer 30 (Moscow) decimates English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.9%)

While attacking in English territory at Coventry, Privateer 30 (Moscow) (4.56/6) defeats English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.9%)

While attacking, Privateer 31 (Rostov) decimates English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.8%)

While attacking in English territory at Coventry, Privateer 31 (Rostov) (3.84/6) defeats English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.8%)

Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat III

0% Research: 69 per turn

0% Culture: 101 per turn

0% Espionage: 27 per turn

100% Gold: 296 per turn, 9 in the bank

After End Turn:

Yekaterinburg finishes: Galleon

Vladivostok grows to size 6

Bryansk grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:

While defending in Indian territory near Bombay, Frigate 14 (Moscow) (8.00/8) defeats French Privateer (Prob Victory: 91.0%)

Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 178/473 (1865 AD) [29-Oct-2009 23:22:35]

Diplomacy (Embargo Request): Churchill (England) asks Stalin (Russia) to stop trading with De Gaulle (France); Stalin REFUSES.

A Lumbermill was built near Yakutsk

A Workshop was built near Krasnoyarsk

Tver' founded

Tver' begins: Courthouse (54 turns)

DEFAULT (Galleon) promoted: Combat I

A Whaling Boats was built

100% Research: 467 per turn

0% Culture: 101 per turn

0% Espionage: 27 per turn

0% Gold: -167 per turn, 305 in the bank

After End Turn:

Moscow finishes: Ironworks

St. Petersburg finishes: Settler

Novgorod finishes: Settler

Rostov finishes: Oxford University

Hinduism has spread: Yakutsk

Khabarovsk grows to size 4

Other Player Actions:

Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'Free Market' to 'State Property'

Turn 179/473 (1866 AD) [29-Oct-2009 23:34:18]

Diplomacy (Embargo Request): Mao Zedong (China) asks Stalin (Russia) to stop trading with Gandhi (India); Stalin REFUSES.

A Forest Preserve was built near Vladivostok

While attacking, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) decimates English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)

While attacking in French territory near Vladivostok, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (4.44/6) defeats English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)

While attacking, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) decimates English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)

While attacking in Russian territory at Vladivostok, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) (4.44/6) defeats English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)

100% Research: 522 per turn

0% Culture: 105 per turn

0% Espionage: 27 per turn

0% Gold: -171 per turn, 152 in the bank

After End Turn:

Marco Polo (Great Merchant) born in Rostov

Smolensk grows to size 6

Orenburg grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:

Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Civics Change: Roosevelt(America) from 'Theocracy' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 180/473 (1867 AD) [29-Oct-2009 23:41:02]

A Forest Preserve was built near Vladivostok

A Mine was built

A Mine was built

0% Research: 191 per turn

0% Culture: 105 per turn

0% Espionage: 27 per turn

100% Gold: 245 per turn, 27 in the bank

After End Turn:

Moscow finishes: Observatory

Rostov finishes: Courthouse

Krasnoyarsk grows to size 7

Bryansk grows to size 6

Turn 181/473 (1868 AD) [29-Oct-2009 23:54:55]

A Lumbermill was built near Orenburg

A Workshop was built near Krasnoyarsk

Novosibirsk founded

Novosibirsk begins: Courthouse (81 turns)

While attacking, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) decimates English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)

While attacking in French territory near Vladivostok, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) (5.22/6) defeats English Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)

100% Research: 686 per turn

0% Culture: 105 per turn

0% Espionage: 30 per turn

0% Gold: -144 per turn, 272 in the bank

After End Turn:

Tech research finished: Railroad

Yaroslavl' finishes: Harbor

Bryansk finishes: Courthouse

Turn 182/473 (1869 AD) [30-Oct-2009 00:00:43]

Diplomacy (Religion Request): Gandhi (India) asks Stalin (Russia) to convert to Christianity; Stalin REFUSES.

Tech traded to Gandhi (India): Steel

Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Democracy

Mining Inc founded in Moscow

Mining Inc has spread: Moscow

Moscow finishes: Mining Inc

100% Research: 691 per turn

0% Culture: 107 per turn

0% Espionage: 32 per turn

0% Gold: -101 per turn, 8 in the bank

After End Turn:

Yekaterinburg finishes: Courthouse

Orenburg finishes: Library

Bryansk grows to size 7

Christianity has spread: Novosibirsk

Other Player Actions:

While defending on the high seas near Chartres, Privateer 43 (Yekaterinburg) loses to French Frigate (2.24/8) (Prob Victory: 29.7%)

While defending just off shore near Avignon, Privateer 33 (Novgorod) loses to French Frigate (4.96/8) (Prob Victory: 32.2%)

Turn 183/473 (1870 AD) [30-Oct-2009 00:04:57]

While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates English Galleon (Prob Victory: 95.9%)

While attacking just off shore near Los Angeles, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (5.10/6) defeats English Galleon (Prob Victory: 95.9%)

A Lumbermill was built near Yakutsk

A Lumbermill was built near Orenburg

A Lumbermill was built near Krasnoyarsk

A Forest Preserve was built near Vladivostok

80% Research: 599 per turn

0% Culture: 109 per turn

0% Espionage: 35 per turn

20% Gold: 6 per turn, 6 in the bank

After End Turn:

Yakutsk's borders expand

Yakutsk finishes: Grocer

Other Player Actions:

While defending in French territory at Marseilles, Privateer 31 (Rostov) loses to French Frigate (3.20/8) (Prob Victory: 67.4%)

While defending in French territory at Marseilles, Privateer 30 (Moscow) loses to French Frigate (3.20/8) (Prob Victory: 65.2%)

Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Caste System' to 'Emancipation'

Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Theocracy' to 'Pacifism'

Turn 184/473 (1871 AD) [30-Oct-2009 00:07:01]

80% Research: 599 per turn

0% Culture: 109 per turn

0% Espionage: 35 per turn

20% Gold: 18 per turn, 12 in the bank

After End Turn:

St. Petersburg finishes: Observatory

Novgorod finishes: Observatory

Krasnoyarsk grows to size 8

Turn 185/473 (1872 AD) [30-Oct-2009 00:16:52]

A Lumbermill was built near Tver'

Magadan founded

Magadan begins: Courthouse (162 turns)

Moscow begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)

Moscow begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)

Moscow begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)

Moscow begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)

Moscow begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)

Moscow begins: The Statue of Liberty (10 turns)

While attacking, Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) decimates French Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.3%)

While attacking in Russian territory at Yakutsk, Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) (2.88/6) defeats French Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.3%)

0% Research: 211 per turn

0% Culture: 109 per turn

0% Espionage: 35 per turn

100% Gold: 285 per turn, 30 in the bank

After End Turn:

Tech research finished: Biology

Moscow finishes: Mining Inc Executive

Krasnoyarsk finishes: Harbor

Bryansk grows to size 8

Other Player Actions:

While defending in Russian territory near Bryansk, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (6.00/6) defeats Chinese Frigate (Prob Victory: 36.0%)

While defending in Russian territory near Bryansk, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (2.40/6) defeats Chinese Frigate (Prob Victory: 36.0%)

Turn 186/473 (1873 AD) [30-Oct-2009 00:20:33]

Research begun: Medicine (26 Turns)

Mining Inc has spread: Yekaterinburg

Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat III

While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Galleon (Prob Victory: 96.1%)

While attacking in Russian territory near San Francisco, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (3.42/6) defeats American Galleon (Prob Victory: 96.1%)

0% Research: 211 per turn

0% Culture: 109 per turn

0% Espionage: 35 per turn

100% Gold: 290 per turn, 243 in the bank

After End Turn:

Yekaterinburg finishes: Grocer

Vladivostok finishes: Grocer

Smolensk finishes: Grocer

Khabarovsk finishes: Courthouse

Buddhism has spread: Bryansk

Turn 187/473 (1874 AD) [30-Oct-2009 00:27:54]

A Mine was built near Novosibirsk

A Lumbermill was built near Orenburg

100% Research: 727 per turn

0% Culture: 109 per turn

0% Espionage: 37 per turn

0% Gold: -226 per turn, 533 in the bank

After End Turn:

Moscow finishes: Mining Inc Executive

Turn 188/473 (1875 AD) [30-Oct-2009 00:33:40]

A Lumbermill was built near Yakutsk

Mining Inc has spread: St. Petersburg

BLubmuz

Oct 29, 2009, 04:14 PM

Marco Polo, who else? A great venetian.

Seems a good TS, UT, just let me see the save, so i can bother you ;)

c'mon guys, who's up next? first come first serve!

unclethrill

Oct 29, 2009, 04:23 PM

That TS took like 3 hours so I hope I'm not up next!!

BLubmuz

Oct 29, 2009, 05:09 PM

That TS took like 3 hours so I hope I'm not up next!!Some minor mistake :p
those are notes for next TS. Then i had to revert my system, so i'll out for some minute.

1) Vladi can start the NP, an executive there can be appreciated.
2) Those workers in mainlad can stop and go railroad the path to Rostov
3) delete all the executives in Moscow and start the SoL immediately
4) go in the Briansk area to ferry the workers to Oremburg and Yakutsk, then in Magadan, then , when all railroads and forts will be finished, in mainland. We'll keep 1-2 workers for each area, excluded the northernmost cities.
5) i want 4 forts, all railroaded:
1 N of Magadan
1 NE of Khabarovsk
1 2S/1W of Smolensk
1 W of Yaroslav'
they will serve various purposes, too long to explain try to use some imagination
6) I think those knights have finish their job, bring them in Tver. In case wait a couple turn to see if some chicken comes in sight, but no more.
7) We must be extremely fast in spreading MI, try to organize the galleons accordingly.
Same for Sushi, bu t i think next TS
8) bring back that Frigate in Oremburg :mad:
9) and the Frigate W of Yek 2W of Parthian: do you wanna see barbs landing?
10) Once finished markets in StPete and Yek, go with executives, but remember that spread a corp cost some 75 gold, so be aware to have them when the execs are ready! I don't wanna pay maintenance if not strictly necessary.

No more for now. But i think it's enough :)

BLubmuz

Oct 30, 2009, 06:03 AM

I posted an end game TS plan in #3.
This will show you how we must proceed enforcing the 24/72 rule.

If no one will post a got it in 10 hours, i'll grab the save.

greatbeyond

Oct 30, 2009, 10:19 AM

If Culdeus doesn't post in the next 8 hours, I can take it. He hasn't had much of a chance to play, so I'll wait a little.

BLubmuz

Oct 30, 2009, 11:13 AM

If Culdeus doesn't post in the next 8 hours, I can take it. He hasn't had much of a chance to play, so I'll wait a little.Right.
In the meantime take a look at the save and draft a PPP. As you can see, we can't afford to wait more than 3 days between TSs.
I doubt the teams now before 1700 can finish in time, unless they play very long TSs.

Time situation (15 teams):
Not started yet: 1 (CRC)
before 1400: 1 (CFR)
before 1500: 0
before 1600: 2 (MW and OSS)
before 1700: 2 (Gipsy and Smurkz)
before 1800: 3 (TT, US, XT)
1800: 6 (only MS few turns ahead of us)

Chokonuts: 1858 - just researched Steel
Geezers: 1847 3 turns to rifling, Bio
MS: 1887 they have Sushi. but not WS, not even enough banks researching AL, probably fission in, but no production (Manhattan in 44 turns ?!?)
Misfits: 1870 Fission in, but not even Steam eheh how they will build nukes? ICBM, too far away from radio and combustion
WhoDat: 1804, they're still planning, not clear reading just one row. It seems they've lost some nice city sites overseas.

Guys, we'll take a medal this time.

culdeus

Oct 30, 2009, 09:50 PM

I don't much care for other teams notes at this point. File them away for later if you want. Not that it would affect our path much, but still. Just a distraction. We'll have time for forensics later. The Russians seem to have decided to sit this one out.

I will be back home Sunday night. Next week will be uneventful for me (mostly) so will have time to do what is needed. I have no way or time to investigate the save right at this moment.

BLubmuz

Oct 31, 2009, 03:45 AM

OK Culdeus, be ready to play after GB.

GB, please post a PPP today.

It was just curiosity. I've seen strange people visiting my profile and UT's one.

greatbeyond

Oct 31, 2009, 06:34 AM

OK Culdeus, be ready to play after GB.

GB, please post a PPP today. This morning hopefully.

It was just curiosity. I've seen strange people visiting my profile and UT's one. Like Moths to a flame?

unclethrill

Oct 31, 2009, 01:53 PM

Like Moths to a flame?

Guess morning is out of the question! LOL.

greatbeyond

Oct 31, 2009, 04:04 PM

It took a while to put this together. With that and the obligatory Halloween festivity.

Vlad - Why a Harbor? - start the Nat Park 14T, Harbor 4T, Max growth
Moscow - SOL,the M-Inc Execs
St Pete - Market 2T, Wealth or M Inc Exec, then Sushi Exec
Novgorod - Grocer 3T, Market 7T
Rostov - Why is it producing a whole 3G/pt?, Barracks 10T or Drydock 25T - We can use this to build naval units.
Yaroslavl - Market 10T, then Wealth and max growth
Yekaterinburg - Market 3T, Drydock 2T, Frigate 2T, Galleon 2T, Execs - Sid's or Mining Inc
Yakutsk - Bank 8T, Drydock 5T - Wealth
Smolensk - Harbor 5T, Max growth
Orenburg - Grocer 10T, max growth
Krasonyarsk - Market 6T, Drydock 4T, max growth
Khabarovsk - Wealth, max growth. It is 33T to get any benefit from the Grocer
Bryansk - Market 9T, Wealth, max growth
Tyver - CH 26T
Novosibersk - CH ~70T
Magadan - CH ~ 159T

Trades
DG - RP for 310G It doesn't seem like enough money. If we do this we should probably trade to Mao for a measly 160G. It will finance research for 2T
Without these it looks like we can sustain only a 50% research rate.

Demands

Refuse tech demands
Accept resource demands from DG, Mao, and Roosevelt
Refuse stop trading demands from all except those targeting Churchill and G.

Research - Medicine, Combustion

GPP
Rostov - GS? in 9T, switch focus to Moscow, finish GP there.
What if it's not a GS?

Galleons
Near Khabarovsk, to Pataliputra to take a MI exec to Yakutsk
Galleon 41 in Barb territory, goes to Briansk to ferry Workers when they are done
Galleon 1 in Yekat, - moves to support Worker steals

Corporations

Are we going to Incorporate as soon as we learn Medicine?

Which Execs are we going to prioritize?

(Order in which they should be done)

Spread Mining Exec to:

Moscow - Done
St Pete - Done
Yekaterinberg - Done
Novgorod - pending
Rostov - pending
Yakutsk - pending
Vladivostok - pending
Krasnoyarsk - pending
Orenburg - pending

Sid's Sushi:
Moscow - pending
Yakaterinberg - pending
Rostov - pending
Yaroslavl - pending
St Pete - pending
Yakustsk - pending
Vladivosotk - pending

1) Vladi can start the NP, an executive there can be appreciated. OK
2) Those workers in mainlad can stop and go railroad the path to Rostov OK
3) delete all the executives in Moscow and start the SoL immediately OK
4) go in the Briansk area to ferry the workers to Oremburg and Yakutsk, then in Magadan, then , when all railroads and forts will be finished, in mainland. We'll keep 1-2 workers for each area, excluded the northernmost cities. OK
5) i want 4 forts, all railroaded:
1 N of Magadan OK
1 NE of Khabarovsk I'm not sure what this is for. There aren't any cities within Tac Nuke range. Is it to save movement points from the city going NE. This city is a long way away from being productive.
1 2S/1W of Smolensk after improvements are done. You can only attack 1 AI city from here
1 W of Yaroslav' I'm not sure what this is for. There aren't any cities within Tac Nuke range. Is it to save movement points from the city going west.
they will serve various purposes, too long to explain try to use some imagination
6) I think those knights have finish their job, bring them in Tver. In case wait a couple turn to see if some chicken comes in sight, but no more. OK
7) We must be extremely fast in spreading MI, try to organize the galleons accordingly. OK, but this will be toward the end of my TS
Same for Sushi, bu t i think next TS
8) bring back that Frigate in Oremburg Our Frigates are N of Rostov, E of Yekaterinburg, W of Vladivostok.
9) and the Frigate W of Yek 2W of Parthian: do you wanna see barbs landing? Build another Frigate in Yekat
10) Once finished markets in StPete and Yek, go with executives, but remember that spread a corp cost some 75 gold, so be aware to have them when the execs are ready! I don't wanna pay maintenance if not strictly necessary. Yekat should build a Drydock first and then some naval power. At 75G each plus the loss of wealth that each exec costs, we want to settle them only in select cities and when we have an excess of money.

I've probably missed something, I'm sure you'll see it right away.

unclethrill

Oct 31, 2009, 04:22 PM

It took a while to put this together. With that and the obligatory Halloween festivity.

I understand

Vlad - Why a Harbor? - start the Nat Park 14T, Harbor 4T, Max growth The harbor is for one simple reason: I'm an idiot. I was thinking that NP came with Medicine not Bio. Guess we all get one mistake.
Moscow - SOL,the M-Inc Execs
St Pete - Market 2T, Wealth or M Inc Exec, then Sushi Exec
Novgorod - Grocer 3T, Market 7T
Rostov - Why is it producing a whole 3G/pt?, Barracks 10T or Drydock 25T - We can use this to build naval units.
BLubz was pretty adamant about not building drydocks. The unhealthy in Rostov could cost a GP.
Yaroslavl - Market 10T, then Wealth and max growth
Yekaterinburg - Market 3T, Drydock 2T, Frigate 2T, Galleon 2T, Execs - Sid's or Mining Inc Again, drydock is against the plan as I know it. And I don't think we need another frigate.
Yakutsk - Bank 8T, Drydock 5T - Wealth
Smolensk - Harbor 5T, Max growth
Orenburg - Grocer 10T, max growth
Krasonyarsk - Market 6T, Drydock 4T, max growthWhy the Drydock here?
Khabarovsk - Wealth, max growth. It is 33T to get any benefit from the Grocer
Bryansk - Market 9T, Wealth, max growth
Tyver - CH 26T
Novosibersk - CH ~70T
Magadan - CH ~ 159T

Trades
DG - RP for 310G It doesn't seem like enough money. If we do this we should probably trade to Mao for a measly 160G. It will finance research for 2T
Without these it looks like we can sustain only a 50% research rate.

Demands

Refuse tech demands
Accept resource demands from DG, Mao, and Roosevelt
Refuse stop trading demands from all except those targeting Churchill and G.

Research - Medicine, Combustion

GPP
Rostov - GS? in 9T, switch focus to Moscow, finish GP there.
What if it's not a GS?

I'm not sure I like the idea of throttling back Rostov GP production to get one in moscow. If it's not a GS then he will become a future GA

Galleons
Near Khabarovsk, to Pataliputra to take a MI exec to Yakutsk
Galleon 41 in Barb territory, goes to Briansk to ferry Workers when they are done
Galleon 1 in Yekat, - moves to support Worker steals

Corporations

Are we going to Incorporate as soon as we learn Medicine? Yes!

Which Execs are we going to prioritize?

(Order in which they should be done)

Spread Mining Exec to:

Moscow - Done
St Pete - Done
Yekaterinberg - Done
Novgorod - pending
Rostov - pending
Yakutsk - pending
Vladivostok - pending Needs to be the next one built. He may not be the next one settled but forsure the next one built
Krasnoyarsk - pending
Orenburg - pending

Sid's Sushi:
Moscow - pending Founded here
Yakaterinberg - pending
Rostov - pending
Yaroslavl - pending
St Pete - pending
Yakustsk - pending
Vladivosotk - pending

1) Vladi can start the NP, an executive there can be appreciated. OK My bad should have had a couple turns on it already
2) Those workers in mainlad can stop and go railroad the path to Rostov OK
3) delete all the executives in Moscow and start the SoL immediately OK Again my bad. I hadn't planned to trade for Demo ahead of time so I lost track of building the SoL
4) go in the Briansk area to ferry the workers to Oremburg and Yakutsk, then in Magadan, then , when all railroads and forts will be finished, in mainland. We'll keep 1-2 workers for each area, excluded the northernmost cities. OK
5) i want 4 forts, all railroaded:
1 N of Magadan OK
1 NE of Khabarovsk I'm not sure what this is for. There aren't any cities within Tac Nuke range. Is it to save movement points from the city going NE. This city is a long way away from being productive.
1 2S/1W of Smolensk after improvements are done. You can only attack 1 AI city from here
1 W of Yaroslav' I'm not sure what this is for. There aren't any cities within Tac Nuke range. Is it to save movement points from the city going west.
BLubz has done a bunch of tests so I trust there is a good reason for those specific locations.
they will serve various purposes, too long to explain try to use some imagination
6) I think those knights have finish their job, bring them in Tver. In case wait a couple turn to see if some chicken comes in sight, but no more. OK
7) We must be extremely fast in spreading MI, try to organize the galleons accordingly. OK, but this will be toward the end of my TS
Same for Sushi, bu t i think next TS
8) bring back that Frigate in Oremburg Our Frigates are N of Rostov, E of Yekaterinburg, W of Vladivostok. Send the one N of Rostov to patrol by Oremburg
9) and the Frigate W of Yek 2W of Parthian: do you wanna see barbs landing? Build another Frigate in Yekat
10) Once finished markets in StPete and Yek, go with executives, but remember that spread a corp cost some 75 gold, so be aware to have them when the execs are ready! I don't wanna pay maintenance if not strictly necessary. Yekat should build a Drydock first and then some naval power. At 75G each plus the loss of wealth that each exec costs, we want to settle them only in select cities and when we have an excess of money.

I've probably missed something, I'm sure you'll see it right away.

Looks good in general. I'm sure BLubz will have a scalpel to cut through it as usual!

greatbeyond

Oct 31, 2009, 05:31 PM

I don't want any competition for the greatest screwup so you'd better stop making mistakes!

Each city I proposed a Drydock for, can afford it. We will need someplace to build naval units besides Yekat. ?

The GP in Moscow can be done before Rostov's next one (after the current one completes). That's why I proposed it.

I forgot to ask, what are we going to use the GS for?

"8) bring back that Frigate in Oremburg "
"Our Frigates are N of Rostov, E of Yekaterinburg, W of Vladivostok."

"Send the one N of Rostov to patrol by Oremburg" Perhaps this is what he meant. I was confused because there isn't a Frigate in Oremburg.

unclethrill

Oct 31, 2009, 05:35 PM

He was bi**hing at me for aimlessly sailing the frigate around. After his post, I understand why it was there.

BLubmuz

Oct 31, 2009, 06:26 PM

Guys, a PPP is almost imposstible to quote :eek:

Drydocks
strictly forbidden: Moscow and Rostov.
Recommended: Yek, Novgorod, Sugar 1 (i'll never remember that city name)
Some more, not much: Oremburg, Briansk maybe?
But they can wait 'til MI is spreaded, or after Combustion. Why pay maintenence for them if we use later?

One thing has to be clear: we need a good navy, but mainly transports and subs, supported by some destroyer, more to avoid our nets being pillaged than for protection. Transports can protect themselves from frigates!

We'll keep one destroyer and one transport in a way that they can be reinforced by another pair in a close area. Maybe also one sub. We need mainly ground units and barracks, also for happiness!

Frigates: we can do with the ones we have, we're few turns away from destroyers. We can use the privateers for protection against privateers.

I didn't bother to point out the NP in Vladi. I was sure you can see by yourself. I lost 1-2 turns in all my tests, just to let you know. :blush:

Don't dare to produce anything in Rostov until that GS is popped. If you pop anyone else, destroy your damn PC :p, it doesn't deserves nothing better :mad:

After it, Moscow can produce a GE: we'll keep him to build the CR right after Radio.

Every city MUST have market and grocer. Avoid Unis, olmost useless and costly! We need to run emancipation for some turn, i want all the specialists, not citizens. Or we're going for Sushi for nothing? :mad:

Build those forts! our workers will be soon idle. I know only one is needed to base a single Tac, the others can be of some use, you'll see.
Execute, dammit! i know what i'm doing! What have you to do with those workers? We're paying them for work, not for infinite coffee breaks! Ahhrrghhh, my HR experience takes my hand sometime. :lol:
1 2S/1W of Smolensk after improvements are done. You can only attack 1 AI city from here
And remember to protect the workers while on the tundra 2S and 2S/1W: the damn barbs can squeeze an HA and give trouble!!!

After Sushi in all my tests that city asked to join us. Remember to refuse!

No more workers steals, we don't need more. In few turns they will be idle for some 20 turns.

Execs to prioritize? The ones wee can build. MI first, in any city. No Sushi in the 2 northernmost cities. Be care to MM *very well* after Sushi will spread.

We must use the "Avoid Growth" button in Rostov immediately, in Moscow when at size 16, in the 3 mainland cities at size 14, in all the others at size 12.

Refuse any demand. Let them come :evil:

Of course we'll found Sushi ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why in the Hell are we running for Medicine, otherwise? First city to spread is StPete :evil:

After Combustion > Flight, we'll double bulb Electricity. We can research it in 1 turn! Then fission and MP in Moscow. Right after Elec, we'll start Broadway in StPete. More details after your TS.

All clear?

Have a nice Halloween :D
I'm just back home from a Pink Floyd tribute band concert, not bad.
The bad is that Monday the Yes, the real ones, one my favourite bands, will be in the same damn theatre. And i knew this tonight. Sold out, of course :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

greatbeyond

Oct 31, 2009, 08:10 PM

"We must use the "Avoid Growth" button in Rostov immediately, in Moscow when at size 16, in the 3 mainland cities at size 14, in all the others at size 12."

I must be missing something here......

BLubmuz

Nov 01, 2009, 03:43 AM

"We must use the "Avoid Growth" button in Rostov immediately, in Moscow when at size 16, in the 3 mainland cities at size 14, in all the others at size 12."

I must be missing something here......We use Sushi to:
- grow (quickly) the cities which otherwise can't grow
- run some specialist there
- run more specialists in the ones which can grow regardless (of Sushi)
- convert some farms in more productive watermills or workshops (this, along with the need to clean the fallouts and rebuild the improvements is the reason why i want almost all the workers in mainland when they finish their jobs in the islands).
We must also keep some transport for workers to clean fallouts in new conquered land and to hook resources we're missing. We don't capture much of them, they will be killed by nukes.

Bust we must avoid to grow over the specified sizes to avoid happiness and health problems.
If some city can support more growth, we can just turn off the button and turn it on next turn. If necessary repeat later.

If we don't use this method, regardless of MM the cities will grow out of control.
We'll acquire more and more Sushi and Mining Inc resources conquering new cities.
MM them to avoid growth will be a pain, if not impossible and we don't need monster cities, just big enough to tun some 5-6 specialists each while at size 12. This is NOT a time game, where pop counts for score, right?

culdeus

Nov 01, 2009, 12:34 PM

OK Culdeus, be ready to play after GB.

GB, please post a PPP today.

It was just curiosity. I've seen strange people visiting my profile and UT's one.

works for me.

greatbeyond

Nov 01, 2009, 04:55 PM

No other comments? Here goes......

unclethrill

Nov 01, 2009, 07:37 PM

No other comments? Here goes......

Good Luck!

greatbeyond

Nov 01, 2009, 09:01 PM

All done, fairly uneventful. It's past time for bed here so I'll provide rebuttal tomorrow after you have a chance to admire such stellar play!

DG has DOW'd Churchill again, Mao has been heard to say "~Soon my numberless Knights will destroy you"

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm10/Fifth_Element_SG010_AD1885_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Auto log seems to have gotten turned off again. Why does it seem that it doesn't start automatically when it should and then when manually set, it stops on the restart of the game? Really nothing eventful to report but it would be nice to have.

Only 1 demand from Roosevelt to change to Mercantilism.
DG requests our help with Churchill.
Both denied.

SOL done, GS born in Rostov, Sid's founded in Moscow.
Specialists from SOL need to be decided on.

The Turn Log:
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1875 AD to 1885 AD:

Turn 465, 1875 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into St. Petersburg.
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Mining Inc has brought +15?-9? to St. Petersburg. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Yakutsk celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Gandhi's Privateer (6.60) vs Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) (11.20)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Combat Odds: 3.6%
Turn 465, 1875 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 465, 1875 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) has defeated Unknown's Privateer!

Turn 466, 1876 AD: Yakutsk celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 469, 1879 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Novgorod.
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Mining Inc has brought +15?-9? to Novgorod. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (7.80) vs Mao Zedong's Privateer (6.60)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Combat Odds: 72.1%
Turn 469, 1879 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 469, 1879 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Unknown's Privateer!
Turn 469, 1879 AD: The borders of Vladivostok have expanded!
Turn 469, 1879 AD: De Gaulle has declared war on Churchill!

Turn 470, 1880 AD: Louis Armstrong (Great Artist) has been born in Orleans (De Gaulle)!

Turn 471, 1881 AD: Moscow celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 471, 1881 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Universal Suffrage!
Turn 471, 1881 AD: Mao Zedong adopts Emancipation!

Turn 472, 1882 AD: You have discovered Medicine!
Turn 472, 1882 AD: Moscow celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 472, 1882 AD: York (Churchill) has been captured by the French Empire!!!

Turn 473, 1883 AD: De Gaulle has 310 gold available for trade.
Turn 473, 1883 AD: The borders of Novgorod are about to expand.
Turn 473, 1883 AD: Tver' will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 473, 1883 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Moscow.
Turn 473, 1883 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +11?+42?, -14? to Moscow. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 473, 1883 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has been incorporated in Moscow!
Turn 473, 1883 AD: Stalin has completed Sid's Sushi Co!
Turn 473, 1883 AD: Stalin has completed The Statue of Liberty!
Turn 473, 1883 AD: The borders of Novgorod have expanded!
Turn 473, 1883 AD: Enrico Fermi (Great Scientist) has been born in Rostov (Stalin)!

Turn 474, 1884 AD: Tver' has grown to size 4.
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Gandhi has 140 gold available for trade.
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Rostov.
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Mining Inc has brought +15?-11? to Rostov. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Your Frigate 14 (Moscow) has reduced the defenses of Zhou to 0%!
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Orenburg will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Bryansk will grow to size 12 on the next turn.
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Novosibirsk will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Raphael (Great Artist) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!
Turn 474, 1884 AD: Deal Canceled: Fish to Mao Zedong for Gold Per Turn (7)

Turn 475, 1885 AD: Your Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) has plundered 3? outside Rouen!
Turn 475, 1885 AD: Your Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) has plundered 3? outside Avignon!
Turn 475, 1885 AD: Orenburg has grown to size 7.
Turn 475, 1885 AD: Bryansk has grown to size 12.
Turn 475, 1885 AD: Novosibirsk has grown to size 4.
Turn 475, 1885 AD: Mao Zedong has 10 gold per turn available for trade.

unclethrill

Nov 02, 2009, 10:25 AM

Sounds good. I'll try to open the save and say something nice before BLubz gets a hold of it and ...

LMAO

unclethrill

Nov 02, 2009, 10:38 AM

I took a look. Everything looks good so far. Without a log it's hard to notice much past what you already posted. So Good TS GB! Looks like your up Cul.

greatbeyond

Nov 02, 2009, 03:17 PM

As I said, not much really happened.

Workers are busy, even working on one of the Forts specified. We need another galleon as it has taken too much time to move the Workers from one city to another. This has proven to be the bottleneck. There are still two Workers in the city NW of Bryansk (?)

I'll have to see if I can't get the Log to stay working. For all the good Buffy has, it did introduce a few bugs.
Several cities are completely improved.

The railway to Rostov is open for business!

I did change some of the second level builds to provide for a Grocer or Market for Gold and Harbors for health. Some cities were temporarily set to wealth to allow us to finish Medicine quickly.

There have been a few Privateers appearing so I have moved the Frigates to protect Galleons OR moved the Galleons into a city for protection.
A curious question arises. Can G's Privateer attack our Galleon if it is in one of G's cities?

Mao asked to stop a trade (our Fish for his 4 gpt) and instead paid 10 gpt for Sugar. I looked for other trades and had none. No gifts of gold either.

unclethrill

Nov 02, 2009, 03:18 PM

BLubmuz

Nov 02, 2009, 05:10 PM

Sounds good. I'll try to open the save and say something nice before BLubz gets a hold of it and ...

LMAOLMAO????
And please don't call Culdeus Cul, in italian means a*s... in a "poetical" form, the right (vulgar) word is "culo".

OK GB, i've opened the save and seen some city building wealth instead of execs!
I didn't dare to investigate it further, to avoid to propose you again for a nice skinning party. I've also seen that poor city on ice with borders not yet popped. How do you think we can hook silver if it's outside our borders?

Culdeus, please post a very detailed PPP and remember: before hit enter *every damn turn* check F4 for resources and techs (and money) and, starting from F10, control all the cities. Mainly in the first turn, the damn city governor usually put a spy at work when assigning new specialists. All Scientists in Rostov, all Engs in Moscow Eng+merchants everywhere else.

I think we can renegotiate the deal with Mao changing silver with sugar. Do it as the first thing!

ehehehhh i started a bonfire in the maintenance thread :eek:

BLubmuz

Nov 02, 2009, 05:16 PM

So right now we are looking at 45 cities to conquer. I don't see a lot of open space for the AI to settle on so that is good. Looks like our REX + the privs worked.

We now really need to get to Nukes. We can get them and roll G fast I think and then back fill the subs and destroyers to move onto the mainland while we cleanup the fallout and make G's cities useful for the war effort.
I haven't done an testing so what do you think BLubz?Nukes and subs will be the key. with subs we can save a lot of hammers.

G will be first, pause for some turn to clean the fallouts and have more units and nukes, then i think Roos. But i already posted on this, i'll repeat after some more testing when we'll be closer. I'll post also some war maps. But let's at least wait to complete the MP, or we risk to forget...

unclethrill

Nov 02, 2009, 05:25 PM

All I was saying was to Beeline Fission and Rocketry now. Build some Tacs. Take G's cities and then while we are scrubbing and recovering, research the other techs we need.

BTW. It appears from the graphs that MS is in full nuking fashion. Their graph has exploded!

culdeus

Nov 02, 2009, 08:56 PM

My night got turned upside down as my oldest broke her collar bone. Settling in now and will try to digest things as they are for MM primarily.

Also find the cul comment interesting as my name derives from a horrific mis-spelling of a french phrase.

I had time to investigate primarily city MM. I need to investigate how to move workers but I imagine that will be trivial and mainly isolated to railroading, but did not take special note here.

I need to transcribe the notes a bit and I'm out of time at the moment, but there are numerous cities that will "grow to oblivion" in next TS. The growth will provide at best 2f 2c so it probably doesn't pay to let lots of these cities grow. Will hire Eng/Sci with the exception of where the border pop needs to happen in a couple of cities an artist. There are a few great spys running and I need to look into why this is happening over GS/GE.

I'll pump out a formal PPP tomorrow eve. Lots of my notes that I thought were getting saved in autolog were not, pity. Back to pen and paper I guess.

AM Edit:Server took a dump last night. Work is light this morning. May get to work at least on city MM first thing.

culdeus

Nov 03, 2009, 09:53 AM

City MM plans. This is a "fresh" look without trying to go back many pages. I don't think much will be controversial. I do see where the order of corporations are noted and will append that to this list shortly.

CITY Moscow – Sushi and MI
Build executives each turn. Overflow can go to galleons if needed.
Running one GE add GE with each growth to 4 GEs
Railroads needed on some mines
No good tiles left to work

CITY St Pete – MI only
Now wealth swap to two MI Exec then back to wealth
Running one Spy.
Railroads needed
Still two more tiles to work (farms)

CITY Novogrod - MI only
Finish Harbor and build 1 MI exec then galleons
Running Spy.
Appears to be fully developed tiles
Growth to furs then GE

CITY Rostov – MI only – A great scientist is resting here
finish barracks then hospital then executive
Six GS running. Next to produce GP in 17 turns
Needs railroads finished/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Growth perhaps to GS to speed up next GS bulb by one turn per GS

CITY Yarslaov – not growing -
Wealth continues
artist and ge running. Fire artist and hire sci?
Fully developed
Looks like this city is wealth only for long term?

CITY Yekaterinburg – Slow growth
1 Exec then back to wealth
Running Spy. Growth to Sci.
Cannot work mines without sushi so put off RR those in short term.

CITY Yatkustk - Stagnant
Finish Market and consider dry dock
No specs. running
Fully developed

CITY Vladivostok
national park finish.
NP will provide 5 specs. All GS?
Fully developed

CITY Smolensk
Wealth
No specs
City needs sushi to work extra tiles.
Growth will put in contraction. Need to hire spec and shuffle worked tiles to prevent growth in short term.

CITY Orenburg
Market then barracks or drydock
No specs
Fully developed but one RR tile needed
Growth to work stone

CITY Krasnoyarsk – Still growing
Finish grocer No idea what’s next here. Drydock?
Could certainly benefit from a couple GEs
Needs a railroad crew to visit
At size 12 still won’t be good for very much. Might consider building just ships

Minor cities

Khabarvosk – No change
Bryansk – Perhaps hire GEs with growth and one immediately
TVER – No change
Novosibirk – Hire GA immediately. And get work boat to area for fish.
Magadan – Hire GA immediately.

Spread Mining Exec to:
Moscow - Done
St Pete - Done
Yekaterinberg - Done
Novgorod - Done
Rostov - Done
Yakutsk - pending - Sailing to here currently
Vladivostok - pending
Krasnoyarsk - pending
Orenburg - pending

Sid's Sushi:
Moscow - Done - Founded
Yakaterinberg - After Rostov
Rostov - pending - Next
Yaroslavl - pending
St Pete - pending
Yakustsk - pending
Vladivosotk - pending

Researching
Combustion - 1608/5443 remaining

Lacking -
Electricity - 6804
Fission - 8316
Rocketry - 7560
Flight 7560
-------------
34075/650 = 52 turns unbulbed

Bulbs worth 2884 currently. At ~2900 with bulbs a worst case nuke date can be placed at 38 turns with best case at 30 turns, but my math could be horribly wrong.

Sliders
Currently 100% beaker running deficit of 122 with 288 in bank. 80% nets +1 coin currently. Reducing wealth production slides this to 70% and roughly 635 beakers per turn with current MM.

Diplomacy
Need to review thread for diplomatic actions to take.

MISC.
To be added later.

unclethrill

Nov 03, 2009, 12:10 PM

In Vlad, as soon as the NP is finished we should change the LM to FP to get more specialists. We will need to get some of those workers back there for that. There is only one there right now.

culdeus

Nov 03, 2009, 12:17 PM

We use Sushi to:

- convert some farms in more productive watermills or workshops (this, along with the need to clean the fallouts and rebuild the improvements is the reason why i want almost all the workers in mainland when they finish their jobs in the islands).
We must also keep some transport for workers to clean fallouts in new conquered land and to hook resources we're missing. We don't capture much of them, they will be killed by nukes.

I do plan on investigating this. I think this will fall in my TS. I need to inventory all the workers and plan that out well. I think you can trust me on this if there are three things I think I have down it's worker moves, military movement, and well something else I'm sure:).

culdeus

Nov 03, 2009, 12:25 PM

With the national park and running lots of GS the research rate can get close to 800/turn before the end of my TS running a cash surplus.

How soon do you want me to play. I've probably said it 10, maybe 12 times but Wednesdays are almost certainly a no-go for me.

BLubmuz

Nov 03, 2009, 12:31 PM

Sushi spreading: StPete and Novgorod have absolute precedence.
After the execs for those 2 cities, Moscow can build wealth. It alone worth 6 cities building wealth. Any city must crank execs of both kind and when possible finish structures.

Any city need structures.

UT, researching straight to nukes will delay us. I know it can seem strange, but:
- researching combustion > flight will let us build the necessary navy (mainly in Yek or even Novgorod) and airports to airlift troops in Rostov. (*)
- will give time to pop another GS and to double bulb electricity, researching in one turn
- if we don't use subs, we'll be bounded to ICBMs: build 2 of them equals to 4 Tacs.

In conclusion, arrive to nukes too fast will delay the 6th nuke. If we don't have at least 6 of them, we can't start a blitzkriege. G can be eliminated in 3 turns, maybe even 2.

(*) From Rostov will start the main stack (5 transports), another transport from Novgorod and another one from Sugar1 (for the island) the 2 transports will join for the westernmost city, while the main stack will take Bombay first, then Dehli. last the city right SW of Dehli.

1 sub will bring the nukes to SW and another one for the closer cities. Destroyers needed to clean frigates. Nukes can also be based in Novgorod. I'll post a map when we'l be close.

BLubmuz

Nov 03, 2009, 12:52 PM

I do plan on investigating this. I think this will fall in my TS. I need to inventory all the workers and plan that out well. I think you can trust me on this if there are three things I think I have down it's worker moves, military movement, and well something else I'm sure:).I don't think. It will probably be matter of the TS after yours. Once the cities will reach the target size, we can start convert. This will happen quickly, but not *so* quickly.

IIRC workers are now busy in islands. They must be ferried to other islands in the path to the mainland to help.
Be care about foreign privateers: mainly G and dG love to bother with those.
Keep always a frigate in range of a galleon.

For the rest, verify a 16 cities PPP is too much. Follow the guidelines and you'll be well.

unclethrill

Nov 03, 2009, 01:29 PM

culdeus

Nov 03, 2009, 02:50 PM

Sushi spreading: StPete and Novgorod have absolute precedence. Novo isn't on the above list copied from previous TS.
After the execs for those 2 cities, Moscow can build wealth. It alone worth 6 cities building wealth. Any city must crank execs of both kind and when possible finish structures. Will need to alternate slider and wealth though moscow wealth will push a surplus at 100% I think.

Any city need structures. A few still lack market/grocer, but not many. Drydocks can wait to not pay maint. costs for one more TS, but risky.

UT, researching straight to nukes will delay us. I know it can seem strange, but:
- researching combustion > flight will let us build the necessary navy (mainly in Yek or even Novgorod) and airports to airlift troops in Rostov. (*)
- will give time to pop another GS and to double bulb electricity, researching in one turn
- if we don't use subs, we'll be bounded to ICBMs: build 2 of them equals to 4 Tacs.

In conclusion, arrive to nukes too fast will delay the 6th nuke. If we don't have at least 6 of them, we can't start a blitzkriege. G can be eliminated in 3 turns, maybe even 2. I'd like to see this plan. Just sheer quantity of G troops will prevent this I think. Not enough time to put a 40 unit ground force to pull this off and definitely not enough transports to nuke, land, conquer. To push this sort of speed all the troops will have to land from the beach. Walking from St. Pete will take 3 turns alone.

(*) From Rostov will start the main stack (5 transports), another transport from Novgorod and another one from Sugar1 (for the island) the 2 transports will join for the westernmost city, while the main stack will take Bombay first, then Dehli. last the city right SW of Dehli. And these units get built when? And where? The big hammer cities will be doing the project and the little hammer ones still plowing away at rocketry. I'd be interested in seeing the plan here.

1 sub will bring the nukes to SW and another one for the closer cities. Destroyers needed to clean frigates. Nukes can also be based in Novgorod. I'll post a map when we'l be close.

12345

Understood that flight comes before electricity. I tend to agree with logic, but again somebody needs to start pumping rifles.

BLubmuz

Nov 03, 2009, 05:57 PM

Only amphibious attacks! This will be our speed! no need to land troops to kill damaged inferior units. We can wait to build rifles, maybe some unit here and there, if no better to do. We can wait, 'cause after rocketry we'll build SAMs.

I think Yek will provide the most of the Navy, when Novgorod will build some, but mainly troops. With the aggressive trait, we can have SAMs starting with amphibious, if built in Novgorod and Yek.
But this will be important only with G. He will probably have infantry. Maybe with Mao, dur to his protective trait. For the rest, you can even avoid to promote our units, until we must fight on land. very late.

Any city can contribute to troops, with MI. We have great cities and good cities, not poor cities with that tool!

culdeus

Nov 03, 2009, 07:01 PM

I am all for that, but I am dubious of the timing of the G war vis-a-vis the availability of transports. I think the better plan to speed up the total conquest would be to count on a slower G war by walking the southern cities and landing on the northern ones. An amphi assault on infantry with SAM even with injured infantry will be a bloodbath. We can't afford to lose a but perhaps a single unit in the G war.

Have we gotten a good unit count on Bombay lately? Do we have a spy available to scout this?

Another thing I think you may forget is we don't have to declare and launch on the same turn. The nukes can be moving by sub and we can time the foot soldiers getting making their way prior to first launch.

This doesn't discount the fact that the speed of the G war is not the limiting factor.

Bottom line with things happening in about 35-40 turns can't wait too long when SAMI become available.

culdeus

Nov 03, 2009, 08:31 PM

I'm planning on knocking out 6 turns or so in the morning and finishing in the evening tomorrow (still 12 right?). I'll do what I can to save logs and take some screens of anything interesting.

greatbeyond

Nov 03, 2009, 08:43 PM

BLubmuz

Nov 04, 2009, 01:15 AM

You start to see why I am in favor of two Tac Nukes per city (with no Bomb Shelter present) all defenders are destroyed and our uninjured attacker strolls in and takes possession. I used 1 Transport loaded with units for each city. Where there wasn't any danger of counter attack, I left just 1 defender in the city and moved on.

I too would like to see it happen sooner rather than later with G. This is the path I tested. I know what Blubmuz is trying to do, but I worry that even though we come on strong, it will be too late.

Don't forget that Nukes double the movement costs so that a foot unit won't be able to reach the city before reinforcements. Cossacks are the best for this, followed by other mounted units.

I didn't see any real problems with the builds and such, but what trades are we willing to make? We should almost be done helping the AI by selling them techs. Demands should be ignored.

We need more units for preventive measures.You're totally out of route.
First, we don't know MT, so no Cossacks.
Second you're saying you're worried by the strenght of Infantry even if badly damaged and you propose a 14 s. unit opposed to a 18 s. one, promoted to C2+Amph.
If we wait to walk or land troops, the damaged units can heal.
If we launch 2 nukes/city the damage to the land and to the city is to high to have it productive.
Better sacrifice a couple units but avoid 2 nukes/city.
2 nukes/city will delay everything, much more than wait some turn to build SAMs.
Nukes will be our bottleneck, as for any other team, i think.
I extensively tested what i'm proposing and i managed to finish G in 2 turns in my best attempt.
Don't forget we'll have a carrier loaded with 3 fighters and some 3-4 bombers.
Or we can build some cheap guided missile to carry in subs to soften the less damaged defenders.

Play well the preparing phase, and we'll be fine for the first war.

culdeus

Nov 04, 2009, 09:09 AM

Had to leave early this morning to take care of something so should be able to play tonight.

Is there a better estimate for first nuke than 40 turns from now?

The G Attack force you propose consists of:

25 SAMI Combat1
15 SAMI C2+Amphi
8 Transports
2 Destroyers
6 Tacs
6 Subs - Wait, what about Radio! That's a big beaker tech and not on beeline path. I see this in previous plans, but it is in my mind optional for G.

So the pickup point will be Rostov for the C2+Amphi SAMI in about 35 turns, but that discounts the raido problem. If we skip radio till after rockets I still think we get G cleared quicker with walking. We have 0, ZERO need for radio to kill G. Forts put all his cities in range. There is no advantage at all waiting for radio to wipe him. Plus I don't think we can build enough units in time to do it in 40 turns piddling around with markets and grocery stores. The very next build of any of the island cities need to be transports. Not only will that help ferry workers around, but it's absolutely crucial long term. We can't afford to buy many upgrades at this time. (maybe one "yacht" for executives)

This is something that can easily be built in world builder to test out.

I also don't see need for a carrier with fighters/bombers for some time. Destroyers can act as bombard agents cheaper for the moment and then when it comes time to hit inland cities they can be used.

I have some more comments, but need to take care of something real quick.

BLubmuz

Nov 04, 2009, 10:15 AM

So the pickup point will be Rostov for the C2+Amphi SAMI in about 35 turns, but that discounts the raido problem. If we skip radio till after rockets I still think we get G cleared quicker with walking. We have 0, ZERO need for radio to kill G. Forts put all his cities in range. There is no advantage at all waiting for radio to wipe him. Plus I don't think we can build enough units in time to do it in 40 turns piddling around with markets and grocery stores. The very next build of any of the island cities need to be transports. Not only will that help ferry workers around, but it's absolutely crucial long term. We can't afford to buy many upgrades at this time. (maybe one "yacht" for executives)

This is something that can easily be built in world builder to test out.

I also don't see need for a carrier with fighters/bombers for some time. Destroyers can act as bombard agents cheaper for the moment and then when it comes time to hit inland cities they can be used.Bombers can strike!
Radio will be researched while completing the MP and building nukes and troops.

Please post a map where i can see a fort for Bombay. For Dehli, maybe.
Don't worry, while building 6 nukes we have time to research Radio, build Subs and complete the troops deployment you described.

Some more destroyer can be appreciated.

BLubmuz

Nov 04, 2009, 01:16 PM

Numbers in detail, the bare minimum to take G in 2 turns:
Sugar1: 1 transport loaded, 4 SAMI 3XP, 1 destroyer
Novgorod: 1 transport loaded, 4 SAMI 3XP (Nov will produce 5XP units, but they will be sent to Rostov), 1 destroyer, 1 Tac in city.
Rostov:
- 1 sub loaded (2 Tacs) there for Sugar1 (the first we'll have) for Island and westermost city.
- 1 sub loaded (3 Tacs) for Bombay, Dehli and the city SW of Dehli
- 5 transports loaded, mainly with SAMI, some with 5XP, some with 3. Also some rifle if we can't build enough SAMIs.
- 1-2 destroyers
- 1 carrier loaded with 3 fighters
- 3-4 bombers in StPete

total:
- 28 SAMI (or less if we use Rifles, anyway, 28 units)
- 2 subs
- 4-5 destroyers
- 1 carrier
- 3 fighters
- 3-4 bombers

note:
- Subs can be loaded only in port.
- Subs and transports will be produced in Yek, so subs can have sentry and transports M1
- bombers and fighters mostly will strike, destroyers can bombard
- we can have troops ready to be airlifted in the conquered city, so we can spare some. It's enough if they will be ready the turn we declare.
- this is why airports are of great relevance
- if possible, we'll build some guided missile. The possibility is more a fact that we can field another sub in time than to build them, since they can be built in 1 turn in the poorest cities.
- carriers and transports can easily acts as destroyers, since we'll face frigates.

In my test i managed all the above force without using draft. If we use it, things can be easier.

side note:
always in my test, i captured some Indian city with factory and coal plant. Then i was surprised to see that a small city can produce faster than many of ours. So, i discovered the importance of coal plants. And they're cheap, too. they will pay off in few turns.

BTW, Radio can be researched in some 5 turns after rocketry. 3 more to produce 1 sub each in Yek, and we'll be ready!

culdeus

Nov 04, 2009, 03:05 PM

Ok, let me total up the hammer count and see where those can come from. There are a few places a coal plant would make sense.

I'll try to make a good estimate of how many workers need to start heading back and when for the great cleanup effort. Each Transport might be nice to hold one or two workers to start the cleanup more quickly as their MP will be reduced by waste.

I'll do my best to figure out where to start destroyers and transports.

I seem to forget what we decided to do with the GS in Rostov? Was he to be saved for a golden age?

I think my TS will end right before flight finishes so still time to change the use.

Starting in a few hours from now so any specific comments are good to have.

I hope I don't lose all the privateers....

Also have noted

"Culdeus, please post a very detailed PPP and remember: before hit enter *every damn turn* check F4 for resources and techs (and money) and, starting from F10, control all the cities. Mainly in the first turn, the damn city governor usually put a spy at work when assigning new specialists. All Scientists in Rostov, all Engs in Moscow Eng+merchants everywhere else."

There are lots of spys out there. I'll do what I can to maximize research % thru combo of Eng+merch. Just in general will run eng when building a market/grocer and merch most other times in the islands. Much of rest combo sci+merch.

Any changes needed in espionage +-? I didn't check that at all. I usually have little use for it except late I do try to make an attempt to steal a tech if I can manage it. Otherwise just do whatever I can afford.

unclethrill

Nov 04, 2009, 04:22 PM

I still think we need to get a couple more Workers up to Vlad to get rid of the LM and make them FP for the specialists. Why else do we have the NP?

BLubmuz

Nov 04, 2009, 04:59 PM

GS
the GS we currently have will wait for (hopefully) next GS from Rostov (be care that Moscow pop his GP after him). Then, when we start to research Elec, we should have both and we'll double bulb it.

Espionage
In my test i built a secutiry bureau in any of our mainland city. Not sure if they work well, since i has 2 airports sabotaged. I've heard that keep a spy can help. Probably with both we'll be safer, but they cost hammers.

Vladivostock
With Sushi and the present FPs we don't need more FPs. Just convert the only farm to WS, if not already done and we'll be fine. Otherwise the benefit from specialists will be less due to the delay in structures (i.e. merchants and no/dalayed market/grocer/bank). We can consider to build FPs later, but i think that later we need only hammers.

culdeus

Nov 04, 2009, 07:06 PM

culdeus

Nov 04, 2009, 10:36 PM

Ran out of time tonight. Got 8 turns in and uploaded. I can do next 4 tomorrow night if you want.

Ran into a couple of problems. dG yanked wine and then next turn Whales obsoleted which started a huge trainwreck of happy problems with sushi spread everywhere.

Can get wine back but dG wants a high price in MI resources and/or sushi or gold per turn.

Nothing else of note happened. We did get the coal from G which helps.

I did make one screw up. Meant to "pre chop" a FP and completed it instead. Sorry. I set a timer reminder but I can't count and made it one turn too many. :blush:

Some of the other worker moves are on a timer as well and should be set right for preloading what I need.

May need to decide what is worth giving up for wine. Hope I don't see a whole post of angry faces in the morning.

GOTM log

Turn 475, 1885 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into St. Petersburg.
Turn 475, 1885 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +12?+48?, -13? to St. Petersburg. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 475, 1885 AD: You have trained Sid's Sushi Executive in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 475, 1885 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Novgorod. Work has now begun on Mining Inc Executive.
Turn 475, 1885 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Hospital.

Turn 476, 1886 AD: You have trained a Galleon in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 476, 1886 AD: Hinduism has spread in Orenburg.
Turn 476, 1886 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate (8.80) vs Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) (7.20)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: Combat Odds: 73.8%
Turn 476, 1886 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 476, 1886 AD: De Gaulle's Frigate has defeated Stalin's Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg)!

Turn 477, 1887 AD: You have trained Mining Inc Executive in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 477, 1887 AD: Rostov celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 477, 1887 AD: You have trained Mining Inc Executive in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Frigate.
Turn 477, 1887 AD: You have constructed National Park in Vladivostok. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 477, 1887 AD: Nanjing (Churchill) has been captured by the French Empire!!!

Turn 478, 1888 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Novgorod.
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +12?+48?, -14? to Novgorod. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) (8.80) vs Gandhi's Privateer (6.19)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Combat Odds: 88.7%
Turn 478, 1888 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 22 (64/100HP)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 22 (42/100HP)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 22 (20/100HP)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Unknown's Privateer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) has defeated Unknown's Privateer!
Turn 478, 1888 AD: Rostov celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 478, 1888 AD: The borders of Tver' have expanded!
Turn 478, 1888 AD: The borders of Novosibirsk have expanded!
Turn 478, 1888 AD: The borders of Magadan have expanded!

Turn 479, 1889 AD: You have discovered Combustion!
Turn 479, 1889 AD: De Gaulle adopts Emancipation!
Turn 479, 1889 AD: De Gaulle adopts Theocracy!
Turn 479, 1889 AD: Roosevelt has completed The Kremlin!

Turn 480, 1890 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 480, 1890 AD: Islam has spread in Coventry.

Turn 481, 1891 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) (10.40) vs Barbarian's Privateer (7.20)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Combat Odds: 88.9%
Turn 481, 1891 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Stalin's Frigate 14 (Moscow) has defeated Barbarian's Privateer!
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Churchill converts to Islam!
Turn 481, 1891 AD: Canterbury (Churchill) has been captured by the French Empire!!!

Turn 482, 1892 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Rostov.
Turn 482, 1892 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15?+57?, -20? to Rostov. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 482, 1892 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Transport.
Turn 482, 1892 AD: Roosevelt adopts Emancipation!
Turn 482, 1892 AD: Roosevelt adopts State Property!

Turn 483, 1893 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Orenburg!
Turn 483, 1893 AD: Moscow has become unhappy.
Turn 483, 1893 AD: Novgorod has grown to size 15.
Turn 483, 1893 AD: Novgorod has become unhappy.
Turn 483, 1893 AD: Orenburg has grown to size 8.
Turn 483, 1893 AD: Tver' has grown to size 5.
Turn 483, 1893 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Transport.

Turn 484, 1894 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Smolensk!
Turn 484, 1894 AD: Novgorod has become happy.
Turn 484, 1894 AD: Roosevelt has 90 gold available for trade.
Turn 484, 1894 AD: Gandhi has 140 gold available for trade.
Turn 484, 1894 AD: Rostov will shrink to size 16 on the next turn.
Turn 484, 1894 AD: You have constructed a Theatre in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Hospital.

Turn 485, 1895 AD: Rostov has shrunk to size 16.
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Rostov has become healthy.
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Rostov has become happy.
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Krasnoyarsk will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Bryansk will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Bryansk will become unhappy on the next turn.

I did manage to get the buffy log working.

Logging by BUFFY 4.0 (BtS 3.17)
------------------------------------------------
[b]Turn 198/473 (1885 AD) [04-Nov-2009 19:38:07]
culdeus aaa
Moscow begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (1 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Palace (3 turns)
culdeus trying to get log to work
culdeus started pre-building FP 1W of vladiv
culdeus broke off 1 fort worker to start road silver at magadan
culdeus mao took the silk sugar deal. nice.
culdeus clam and gold for stone to dG
culdeus no other deals make sense will wait for sushi to spread more to try to acquire more fish stuff
Moscow begins: Galleon (1 turns)
Moscow begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (1 turns)
Moscow begins: Galleon (1 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Mining Inc Executive (3 turns)
Novgorod begins: Mining Inc Executive (3 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Mining Inc Executive (3 turns)
Novgorod begins: Galleon (2 turns)
Novgorod begins: Galleon (2 turns)
Novgorod begins: Rifleman (3 turns)
Novgorod begins: Rifleman (3 turns)
Rostov begins: Hospital (11 turns)
Rostov begins: Rifleman (6 turns)
culdeus mixing up specialists got to 812 beakers for time being
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: St. Petersburg
Yekaterinburg begins: Mining Inc Executive (3 turns)
culdeus can't see need for knight galley more than a exec ferry for time being
100% Research: 812 per turn
0% Culture: 273 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
0% Gold: -259 per turn, 214 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 16
Moscow finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
St. Petersburg grows to size 11
Novgorod grows to size 12
Novgorod finishes: Harbor
Rostov finishes: Barracks
Khabarovsk grows to size 5

Turn 199/473 (1886 AD) [04-Nov-2009 21:24:00]
90% Research: 763 per turn
0% Culture: 273 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
10% Gold: -180 per turn, 20 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Galleon
St. Petersburg finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Hinduism has spread: Orenburg

Other Player Actions:
While defending in French territory near Vladivostok, Privateer 46 (Yekaterinburg) loses to French Frigate (5.12/8) (Prob Victory: 26.2%)

Turn 200/473 (1887 AD) [04-Nov-2009 21:43:00]
A Farm was built near Smolensk
Yekaterinburg begins: Frigate (1 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (3 turns)
60% Research: 602 per turn
0% Culture: 273 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
40% Gold: 151 per turn, 23 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg grows to size 12
Novgorod finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Yekaterinburg finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Vladivostok finishes: National Park
Krasnoyarsk grows to size 11

Turn 201/473 (1888 AD) [04-Nov-2009 22:01:34]
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Novgorod
culdeus no new good trades. hoping to increase fish as sushi spreads maybe with stone
A Lumbermill was built near Smolensk
While attacking just off shore near Varanasi, Frigate 11 (Moscow) (2.56/8) defeats Indian Privateer (Prob Victory: 88.7%)
Vladivostok begins: Market (13 turns)
100% Research: 844 per turn
0% Culture: 324 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
0% Gold: -49 per turn, 100 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 17
St. Petersburg finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Novgorod grows to size 13
Yekaterinburg finishes: Frigate
Yakutsk finishes: Market
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Grocer
Tver''s borders expand
Novosibirsk's borders expand
Magadan's borders expand

Turn 202/473 (1889 AD) [04-Nov-2009 22:10:36]
Diplomacy: De Gaulle (France) cancels trade of Wine to Stalin (Russia) for Crab
St. Petersburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (3 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Galleon (1 turns)
Yakutsk begins: Drydock (3 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Drydock (4 turns)
90% Research: 793 per turn
0% Culture: 348 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
10% Gold: -10 per turn, 51 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Combustion
St. Petersburg grows to size 13
Yekaterinburg finishes: Transport
Bryansk grows to size 13

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: De Gaulle(France) from 'Caste System' to 'Emancipation'
Civics Change: De Gaulle(France) from 'Organized Religion' to 'Theocracy'

Turn 203/473 (1890 AD) [04-Nov-2009 22:35:41]
Research begun: Artillery (6 Turns)
Research begun: Flight (10 Turns)
A Fort was built near Magadan
Yekaterinburg begins: Destroyer (2 turns)
culdeus zzz
90% Research: 789 per turn
0% Culture: 348 per turn
0% Espionage: 42 per turn
10% Gold: -30 per turn, 41 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Novgorod grows to size 14
Novgorod finishes: Rifleman

Other Player Actions:
Islam has spread: Coventry (English Empire)

Turn 204/473 (1891 AD) [04-Nov-2009 22:42:22]
Diplomacy: Roosevelt (America) offers to trade Communism to Stalin (Russia) for Steam Power
Diplomacy: Stalin (Russia) rejects trade of Steam Power to Roosevelt (America) for Communism
While attacking in Russian territory near Bryansk, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (6.00/6) defeats Chinese Work Boat (Prob Victory: 88.7%)
While attacking in English territory near Coventry, Frigate 14 (Moscow) (2.88/8) defeats Barbarian Privateer (Prob Victory: 88.9%)
A Workshop was built near Yakutsk
Novgorod begins: Transport (2 turns)
Novgorod begins: Settler (5 turns)
Novgorod begins: Transport (2 turns)
80% Research: 750 per turn
0% Culture: 348 per turn
0% Espionage: 47 per turn
20% Gold: 97 per turn, 11 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg grows to size 14
Yekaterinburg finishes: Destroyer
Yakutsk finishes: Drydock
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Drydock
Magadan grows to size 3

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Churchill (England) from 'Hinduism' to 'Islam'
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 205/473 (1892 AD) [04-Nov-2009 22:48:40]
Diplomacy (Embargo Request): De Gaulle (France) asks Stalin (Russia) to stop trading with Churchill (England); Stalin REFUSES.
Diplomacy: Gandhi (India) offers to trade Communism to Stalin (Russia) for Biology
Diplomacy: Stalin (Russia) rejects trade of Biology to Gandhi (India) for Communism
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Rostov
culdeus rostov got unhappy with lack of whale
A Mine was built near Novosibirsk
A Mine was built near Magadan
A Forest Preserve was built near Vladivostok
Yakutsk begins: Harbor (4 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Destroyer (8 turns)
culdeus 100% and +cash now yay. gonna convert some merchs to sci now
100% Research: 927 per turn
0% Culture: 405 per turn
0% Espionage: 47 per turn
0% Gold: 3 per turn, 34 in the bank

After End Turn:
Novgorod grows to size 15
Novgorod finishes: Rifleman
Orenburg grows to size 8
Tver' grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Civics Change: Roosevelt(America) from 'Caste System' to 'Emancipation'
Civics Change: Roosevelt(America) from 'Mercantilism' to 'State Property'

Turn 206/473 (1893 AD) [04-Nov-2009 22:59:18]
Novgorod begins: Barracks (1 turns)
culdeus not well prepared to solve happy problem in rostov. novo went to unhappy as well
Rostov begins: Theatre (2 turns)
100% Research: 957 per turn
0% Culture: 405 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
0% Gold: 7 per turn, 37 in the bank

After End Turn:
Novgorod finishes: Barracks

Turn 207/473 (1894 AD) [04-Nov-2009 23:16:43]
A Mine was built near St. Petersburg
100% Research: 953 per turn
0% Culture: 405 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
0% Gold: 7 per turn, 44 in the bank

After End Turn:
Rostov finishes: Theatre
Yakutsk finishes: Harbor

BLubmuz

Nov 05, 2009, 08:22 AM

If you agree i can take care of the save. I'll play 'til the scheduled point.
Too few corps spreaded, many mistakes, to stop only on what i can see from the report.

If so, i'll post a PPP tomorrow.

culdeus

Nov 05, 2009, 08:30 AM

If you agree i can take care of the save. I'll play 'til the scheduled point.
Too few corps spreaded, many mistakes, to stop only on what i can see from the report.

If so, i'll post a PPP tomorrow.

Corps are spread as fast as they possibly could have been. You can only settle one per turn.

BLubmuz

Nov 05, 2009, 05:56 PM

Corps are spread as fast as they possibly could have been. You can only settle one per turn.In the autolog i see 9 turns, and only 3 Sushi spreaded. IIRC MI wasn't spreaded to all the cities. Are you forgetting it?
At this pace, the detour for Medicine risks to be useless.

And a galleon built in Moscow.
Not clear if you built the destroyer before or after the drydock. I must see the save to know.

It was clear that spread Corps was the absolute priority.

Anyway, you have only 1 turn left, not 4. The save was scheduled for 1895 and you saved and posted 1894.

Tomorrow i'll post a PPP 'til 1905, as scheduled. I'll also update the roster. Busy day today.

culdeus

Nov 05, 2009, 06:44 PM

In the autolog i see 9 turns, and only 3 Sushi spreaded. IIRC MI wasn't spreaded to all the cities. Are you forgetting it?
At this pace, the detour for Medicine risks to be useless.

And a galleon built in Moscow.
Not clear if you built the destroyer before or after the drydock. I must see the save to know.

It was clear that spread Corps was the absolute priority.

Anyway, you have only 1 turn left, not 4. The save was scheduled for 1895 and you saved and posted 1894.

Tomorrow i'll post a PPP 'til 1905, as scheduled. I'll also update the roster. Busy day today.

If you open the save you'll see MI Execs all within one turn or already present at their destinations set out in the PPP, and one SS exec is waiting to settle the next turn on the mainland. I needed the extra galley (also discussed in PPP) to make the split transit to Vlad, kras, and oren.

There was a gap of two turns IIRC that had no settling because the SS execs were not yet produced. So the next 5 turns can settle SS and MI in virtually any order you wish. I thought this through for awhile making sure that there would be no more gaps in settling the execs. The travel time to get out to the three island cities is very high even with circumnav. If there was a faster way to do this I'd like to know how.

The transport can ferry the remaining SS execs quickly to their destinations with perhaps just a one or two turn gap in settling.

BLubmuz

Nov 06, 2009, 08:54 AM

OK, i trust you, at least until i open the save. In few hours i can open it and post a PPP.

BTW, i already downloaded it from the progress page (to take a look to the graphs) and it shows 1895. Thus you played all your turns.

culdeus

Nov 06, 2009, 08:55 AM

ok. I thought we were doing 12 turn sets if desired to make the game go faster.

BLubmuz

Nov 06, 2009, 01:51 PM

I got the save finally open.
This is the situation i've found:
cities: 16
7 with Islam Missionaries: 0
5 with MI Exec: 4
4 with Sushi Exec: 1

rifles: 6
galleons: 5
frigates: 4
privateers: 2
transports: 1
Destroyers: 1

Buildings needed:
City Bar Dry Lib CH Obs G-M Har
Moscow Y Y Y Y Y-Y Y
StPete Y Y Y Y Y-Y -
Novgorod Y Y Y Y Y Y-Y Y
Rostov Y Y Y Y Y-Y Y
Yaroslav N Y Y N Y-Y Y
Yekaterinburg Y Y Y Y N Y-Y Y
Yakutsk B Y Y Y N Y-Y Y
Vladivostock N Y Y N Y-B B
Smolensk N Y Y N Y-Y Y
Orenburg N N Y Y N Y-B N
Krasnoyarsk N Y Y Y N Y-Y Y
Khabarovsk N N Y N B-N N
Briansk N N Y N B-Y N
Tver' N N B N N-N N
Novosibirsk N N B N N-N N
Magadan N N B N N-N NOne more drydock is enough
the building with "N" should be built, with "B" are under construction

Rostov lost 1 pop!
Moscow is size 17 when i recommended to not pass 16!
Novgorod is size 15 and i recommended to not pass 14!

5 cities are building wealth and except Moscow, they need many buildings.
When do you think we can build them?

A useless farm instead of a WS N of Smolensk, Silver not railroaded near Khabarovsk, fort? Same Yaroslav.

What can i do? post a PPP? Kill someone?
This is my PPP:
Cities: build all the needed buildings (see above), if some corp is present alternate with Execs to optimize corps spread. Then units. Yek will build some destroyer, just to be safe.
Workers: complete the planned tasks, which you seem to have totally ignored.
I'll play 'til the situation will be actually improved, 20 turns if needed.
Then, Unclethrill, then i'll take again the ball to prepare and fight the war.

DeGaulle is enjoining our furs for free and he wants trade wine. Have you ever watched F4?
Nice, flight is due in 3, but next GS from Rostov is due in 6. He should have popped when flight was in.
A delay the GPerson or flight arrived too soon at the expenses of corps spreading and structures not built?
The last 2 TSs ruined a great plan. I'm astonished.

Just one thing i'm undecided: is it worth to spread our religion to the cities lacking it? and build some temple?

culdeus

Nov 06, 2009, 01:58 PM

BLubmuz

Nov 07, 2009, 05:00 AM

Let's see the situation:
In my best test i discovered Flight in 1904, but with a lot of Corps spreaded.
Now we can finish it by 1898, but we lack the money to spread corporations.

The rush for Railiroads and for Medicine is becoming useless.

MI was founded in UT's TS in 1869. Only 4 cities spreaded in 26 turns, not counting Moscow.
Sushi was founded in GB's TS in 1883. Only 3 cities spreaded in 12 turns, not counting Moscow.

Not talking about workers.

What's this?

Now i think that our best bet is go straight for flight, build airports in mainland, build executives 'til the limit of 5, then airlift them to gain some turn. Set research to 0 after flight, to gather the money for corps spreading (some 75 gold each).

BLubmuz

Nov 07, 2009, 07:28 AM

I posted a nearly city by city PPP and nobody commented on it. It is very hard to keep detailed notes on 10 pages of posts, but I attempted it. Virtually nothing done was off script from that including comments on growth of cities and what new citizens would do. You said specifically to go to wealth in moscow after two execs and with no comments from anyone else that's what I did.

The primary worker moves were to get the vast majority back to mainland for later cleanup. There are a few things that were done that I regret, but none will impact things in any meaningful way long term.Yes, and you forgot many importants improvements on the islands.

For the rest, verify a 16 cities PPP is too much. Follow the guidelines and you'll be well.But you didn't, 'cause you didn't bothered to read them.
I not even opened the GB save.
There's a strategy and guidelines everywhere in this thread. If you can't find them is because you don't follow it enough. If anything is not clear, just ask, i was glad to post a full strategy plan. But don't ask me to deeply analyze a 16 cities and related workers plan. We should be good enough to adapt our PPPs to a strategy.

Playing now.

BLubmuz

Nov 07, 2009, 11:05 AM

TS played. Now i feel better. In 15 turns and over 4 hours i managed to completely recover an half disaster. I stopped in 1910, fission will arrive next turn. I needed to shut-off research for awhile, to gather the money to spread the Corps. But now every city has the needed Corps.

The save. turn 223, 1910.

The in-game log.Here is your Session Turn Log from 1895 AD to 1910 AD:

Turn 485, 1895 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (7.80) vs Roosevelt's Galleon (4.40)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Combat Odds: 96.9%
Turn 485, 1895 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Roosevelt's Galleon is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Galleon!
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (7.80) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 485, 1895 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 485, 1895 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 485, 1895 AD: You have trained a Transport in Novgorod. Work has now begun on Sid's Sushi Executive.

Turn 486, 1896 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Orenburg.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-11? to Orenburg. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Vladivostok.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Mining Inc has brought +18?-9? to Vladivostok. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (6.78) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Combat Odds: 98.2%
Turn 486, 1896 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 486, 1896 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Krasnoyarsk.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-12? to Krasnoyarsk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Yekaterinburg.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15?+57?, -17? to Yekaterinburg. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Yakutsk.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-12? to Yakutsk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: The borders of Yekaterinburg have expanded!
Turn 486, 1896 AD: You have constructed a Market in Vladivostok. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 486, 1896 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Krasnoyarsk. Work has now begun on Mining Inc Executive.

Turn 487, 1897 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (6.78) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Combat Odds: 97.6%
Turn 487, 1897 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (5.46) vs Roosevelt's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Combat Odds: 83.1%
Turn 487, 1897 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Roosevelt's Caravel is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Stalin's Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Caravel!
Turn 487, 1897 AD: Isoroku Yamamoto (Great General) has been born in Moscow (Stalin)!
Turn 487, 1897 AD: You have constructed a Islamic Temple in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Hospital.
Turn 487, 1897 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Bryansk. Work has now begun on a Grocer.

Turn 488, 1898 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Tver'.
Turn 488, 1898 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-9? to Tver'. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 488, 1898 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Tver'.
Turn 488, 1898 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15?+57?, -12? to Tver'. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 488, 1898 AD: You have trained Mining Inc Executive in Krasnoyarsk. Work has now begun on a Destroyer.

Turn 489, 1899 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Novosibirsk.
Turn 489, 1899 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15?+57?, -24? to Novosibirsk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 489, 1899 AD: You have discovered Flight!
Turn 489, 1899 AD: You have trained Mining Inc Executive in Orenburg. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 489, 1899 AD: Ananda (Great Prophet) has been born in Bombay (Gandhi)!

Turn 490, 1900 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Novosibirsk.
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-19? to Novosibirsk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Yaroslavl'.
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15?+57?, -15? to Yaroslavl'. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Bryansk.
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-13? to Bryansk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Smolensk.
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-10? to Smolensk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Niels Bohr (Great Scientist) has been born in Rostov (Stalin)!
Turn 490, 1900 AD: The borders of Tver' have expanded!
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Roosevelt's Frigate (8.80) vs Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (8.40)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Combat Odds: 65.2%
Turn 490, 1900 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Roosevelt's Frigate is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Roosevelt's Frigate is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Roosevelt's Frigate is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Roosevelt's Frigate is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Roosevelt's Frigate is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Roosevelt's Frigate is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 490, 1900 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Roosevelt's Frigate!

Turn 491, 1901 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Yaroslavl'.
Turn 491, 1901 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-12? to Yaroslavl'. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 491, 1901 AD: You have discovered Electricity!
Turn 491, 1901 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Airport.
Turn 491, 1901 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Orenburg. Work has now begun on a Airport.
Turn 491, 1901 AD: The borders of Novosibirsk have expanded!
Turn 491, 1901 AD: Christianity has spread in Novgorod.
Turn 491, 1901 AD: De Gaulle has made peace with Churchill!

Turn 492, 1902 AD: Islam has spread in Magadan.

Turn 493, 1903 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Magadan.
Turn 493, 1903 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-17? to Magadan. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 493, 1903 AD: Yaroslavl' celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 493, 1903 AD: Christianity has spread in Rostov.

Turn 494, 1904 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Magadan.
Turn 494, 1904 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15?+60?, -24? to Magadan. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 494, 1904 AD: Yaroslavl' celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 494, 1904 AD: You have discovered a source of Gems near Novosibirsk!

Turn 495, 1905 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Orenburg.
Turn 495, 1905 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +15?+60?, -15? to Orenburg. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 495, 1905 AD: Mining Inc has expanded into Khabarovsk.
Turn 495, 1905 AD: Mining Inc has brought +21?-9? to Khabarovsk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Coal, Iron, Copper, Gold, Silver.
Turn 495, 1905 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Bryansk. Work has now begun on a Airport.

Turn 496, 1906 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Yakutsk.
Turn 496, 1906 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +16?+63?, -16? to Yakutsk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 496, 1906 AD: You have trained Sid's Sushi Executive in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Airport.
Turn 496, 1906 AD: Rostov celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 496, 1906 AD: The borders of Orenburg have expanded!
Turn 496, 1906 AD: The borders of Magadan have expanded!

Turn 497, 1907 AD: You have discovered Military Tradition!
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Islam has spread in Vladivostok.
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (8.40) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 497, 1907 AD: (Extra Combat: -40%)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Stalin's Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 497, 1907 AD: Rostov celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 497, 1907 AD: The borders of Yaroslavl' have expanded!
Turn 497, 1907 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Tver'. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 498, 1908 AD: Khabarovsk has grown to size 6.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Novosibirsk has grown to size 9.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Magadan has grown to size 6.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: De Gaulle has 300 gold available for trade.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Gandhi has 130 gold available for trade.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Mao Zedong has 90 gold available for trade.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: De Gaulle has 17 gold per turn available for trade.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Vladivostok.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +16?+63?, -15? to Vladivostok. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: You have plundered 7? from the Mine!
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Smolensk.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +16?+63?, -15? to Smolensk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Yakutsk will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Vladivostok will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Smolensk will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Orenburg will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: You have constructed a Airport in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: The borders of Smolensk have expanded!
Turn 498, 1908 AD: You have constructed a Library in Khabarovsk. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Tver'. Work has now begun on a Airport.
Turn 498, 1908 AD: Deal Canceled: Stone to De Gaulle for Clam, Gold

Turn 499, 1909 AD: Yakutsk has grown to size 11.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Vladivostok has grown to size 8.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Smolensk has grown to size 8.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Orenburg has grown to size 10.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has expanded into Khabarovsk.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Sid's Sushi Co has brought +16?+63?, -14? to Khabarovsk. Increase this bonus by acquiring more Crab, Clam, Fish, Rice.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Tver' will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Magadan will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Bi Sheng (Great Engineer) has been born in Moscow (Stalin)!
Turn 499, 1909 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Khabarovsk. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: You have constructed a Market in Novosibirsk. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: You have constructed a Library in Magadan. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 499, 1909 AD: Deal Canceled: Marble to Roosevelt for Clam, Fish, Gold Per Turn (2)

Turn 500, 1910 AD: Tver' has grown to size 10.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Magadan has grown to size 7.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Gandhi has 130 gold available for trade.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Mao Zedong has 100 gold available for trade.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: The borders of Khabarovsk are about to expand.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: The borders of Tver' are about to expand.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Vladivostok will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Smolensk will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Khabarovsk will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Novosibirsk will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Magadan will grow to size 8 on the next turn.Continues on next post.

BLubmuz

Nov 07, 2009, 11:25 AM

The autolog:
Logging by BUFFY 4.0 (BtS 3.17)
------------------------------------------------
[b]Turn 208/473 (1895 AD) [07-Nov-2009 15:37:47]
Yakutsk begins: Barracks (2 turns)
Moscow begins: Islamic Temple (1 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (3 turns)
Novgorod begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (3 turns)
Rostov begins: Islamic Temple (3 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Barracks (2 turns)
Bryansk begins: Barracks (3 turns)
Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Medic I
While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Galleon (Prob Victory: 96.9%)
While attacking just off shore near Chengdu, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (4.20/6) defeats American Galleon (Prob Victory: 96.9%)
While attacking, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking on the high seas near Chengdu, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (5.22/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
Novgorod begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (3 turns)
Frigate 71 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
Frigate 71 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat II
Transport 72 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
Transport 72 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Medic I
Blub Comment cancelled furs trade with dG
Blub Comment now trading them for wine!
Yaroslavl' begins: Barracks (4 turns)
Smolensk begins: Barracks (2 turns)
0% Research: 428 per turn
0% Culture: 408 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
100% Gold: 347 per turn, 51 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Islamic Temple
Novgorod finishes: Transport
Yakutsk finishes: Barracks
Orenburg finishes: Market

Turn 209/473 (1896 AD) [07-Nov-2009 16:05:49]
Moscow begins: Hospital (2 turns)
Orenburg begins: Harbor (6 turns)
Mining Inc has spread: Orenburg
Mining Inc has spread: Vladivostok
While attacking, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Caravel (Prob Victory: 98.2%)
While attacking in American territory near Chengdu, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (5.22/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 98.2%)
Mining Inc has spread: Krasnoyarsk
Krasnoyarsk begins: Mining Inc Executive (3 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Destroyer (3 turns)
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Yekaterinburg
A Workshop was built near Novgorod
Destroyer 75 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
Destroyer 75 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat II
Mining Inc has spread: Yakutsk
0% Research: 423 per turn
0% Culture: 466 per turn
0% Espionage: 37 per turn
100% Gold: 390 per turn, 28 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Hospital
St. Petersburg finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Yekaterinburg grows to size 13
Yekaterinburg's borders expand
Yekaterinburg finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Vladivostok finishes: Market
Smolensk finishes: Barracks
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Barracks
Tver' finishes: Courthouse

Turn 210/473 (1897 AD) [07-Nov-2009 16:15:27]
St. Petersburg begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
Smolensk begins: Rifleman (8 turns)
Tver' begins: Library (16 turns)
While attacking, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Caravel (Prob Victory: 97.6%)
While attacking in American territory at San Francisco, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (5.22/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 97.6%)
Isoroku Yamamoto (Great General) born in Moscow
While attacking, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) decimates American Caravel (Prob Victory: 83.1%)
While attacking in American territory at San Francisco, Privateer 47 (Yekaterinburg) (4.20/6) defeats American Caravel (Prob Victory: 83.1%)
A Workshop was built near Orenburg
Orenburg begins: Mining Inc Executive (3 turns)
Transport 77 (Novgorod) promoted: Combat I
Transport 77 (Novgorod) promoted: Medic I
100% Research: 970 per turn
0% Culture: 466 per turn
0% Espionage: 40 per turn
0% Gold: -87 per turn, 418 in the bank

After End Turn:
Novgorod finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Rostov finishes: Islamic Temple
Yaroslavl' finishes: Barracks
Yekaterinburg finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Bryansk finishes: Barracks

Turn 211/473 (1898 AD) [07-Nov-2009 16:21:18]
Novgorod begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)
Yaroslavl' begins: Rifleman (12 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
Mining Inc has spread: Tver'
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Tver'
A Workshop was built near Yekaterinburg
Yekaterinburg begins: Destroyer (2 turns)
A Workshop was built near Novgorod
A Workshop was built near St. Petersburg
A Lumbermill was built near Magadan
0% Research: 423 per turn
0% Culture: 524 per turn
0% Espionage: 45 per turn
100% Gold: 567 per turn, 187 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Vladivostok finishes: Harbor
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Bryansk finishes: Grocer

Turn 212/473 (1899 AD) [07-Nov-2009 16:29:38]
St. Petersburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
Vladivostok begins: Barracks (1 turns)
Bryansk begins: Library (8 turns)
A Lumbermill was built near Vladivostok
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Novosibirsk
A Workshop was built near St. Petersburg
100% Research: 977 per turn
0% Culture: 581 per turn
0% Espionage: 40 per turn
0% Gold: -130 per turn, 684 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Flight
Novgorod finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Rostov finishes: Hospital
Yekaterinburg grows to size 14
Yekaterinburg finishes: Destroyer
Vladivostok finishes: Barracks
A Hamlet was built near Vladivostok
Smolensk grows to size 7
Orenburg finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Tver' grows to size 6
Novosibirsk grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 213/473 (1900 AD) [07-Nov-2009 16:41:22]
Research begun: Electricity (6 Turns)
Novgorod begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)
Rostov begins: Airport (10 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Airport (5 turns)
Vladivostok begins: Airport (8 turns)
Mining Inc has spread: Novosibirsk
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Yaroslavl'
Mining Inc has spread: Bryansk
Mining Inc has spread: Smolensk
Moscow begins: Airport (2 turns)
Destroyer 85 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
Rostov begins: Mining Inc Executive (4 turns)
Rostov begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (4 turns)
A Workshop was built near Smolensk
A Watermill was built near St. Petersburg
Research begun: Rocketry (14 Turns)
Yaroslavl' begins: Airport (26 turns)
0% Research: 425 per turn
0% Culture: 638 per turn
0% Espionage: 45 per turn
100% Gold: 370 per turn, 256 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Novgorod finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Niels Bohr (Great Scientist) born in Rostov
Orenburg finishes: Harbor
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Destroyer
Tver' grows to size 7
Tver''s borders expand
Novosibirsk finishes: Courthouse

Other Player Actions:
While defending in American territory at San Francisco, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (3.60/6) defeats American Frigate (Prob Victory: 34.8%)

Turn 214/473 (1901 AD) [07-Nov-2009 16:53:29]
Diplomacy (War Request): Churchill (England) asks Stalin (Russia) to declare war on De Gaulle (France); Stalin REFUSES.
Diplomacy (Help Request): Roosevelt (America) asks Stalin (Russia) for Steel; Stalin REFUSES.
St. Petersburg begins: Airport (4 turns)
Novgorod begins: Airport (5 turns)
Orenburg begins: Airport (7 turns)
Orenburg begins: Barracks (1 turns)
Orenburg begins: Airport (7 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Airport (7 turns)
Novosibirsk begins: Library (4 turns)
Mining Inc has spread: Yaroslavl'
Research begun: Electricity (14 Turns)
Research begun: Fission (14 Turns)
Research begun: Electricity (14 Turns)
A Workshop was built near Tver'
Smolensk begins: Rifleman (4 turns)
Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat IV
Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) promoted: Combat I
Novgorod begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)
A Workshop was built near Novgorod
Yekaterinburg begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
100% Research: 997 per turn
0% Culture: 638 per turn
0% Espionage: 42 per turn
0% Gold: -301 per turn, 556 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Electricity
Moscow finishes: Airport
Yaroslavl' grows to size 11
Yekaterinburg finishes: Work Boat
Orenburg finishes: Barracks
Tver' finishes: Library
Novosibirsk grows to size 6
Novosibirsk's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Christianity has spread: Novgorod
De Gaulle (France) and Churchill (England) have signed a peace treaty
Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Churchill (England), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 215/473 (1902 AD) [07-Nov-2009 17:07:53]
Research begun: Fission (7 Turns)
Tver' begins: Market (5 turns)
A Workshop was built near Novgorod
Isoroku Yamamoto (Pikeman) promoted: Lead by Warlord
Isoroku Yamamoto (Pikeman) promoted: Medic I
Isoroku Yamamoto (Pikeman) promoted: Medic II
Isoroku Yamamoto (Pikeman) promoted: Medic III
Isoroku Yamamoto (Pikeman) promoted: Morale
St. Petersburg begins: Broadway (9 turns)
100% Research: 963 per turn
0% Culture: 640 per turn
0% Espionage: 47 per turn
0% Gold: -139 per turn, 255 in the bank

After End Turn:
Novgorod finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Rostov finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Bryansk finishes: Library
Islam has spread: Magadan note: auto-spreaded. I built a missionary for Vladi.

Turn 216/473 (1903 AD) [07-Nov-2009 17:17:11]
Diplomacy (Embargo Request): Churchill (England) asks Stalin (Russia) to stop trading with De Gaulle (France); Stalin REFUSES.
Novgorod begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
Rostov begins: Airport (7 turns)
Bryansk begins: Harbor (3 turns)
Bryansk begins: Airport (9 turns)
Mining Inc has spread: Magadan
A Fishing Boats was built near Novosibirsk
Moscow begins: Jail (1 turns)
0% Research: 394 per turn
0% Culture: 670 per turn
0% Espionage: 47 per turn
100% Gold: 368 per turn, 40 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Jail
Novgorod finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Yekaterinburg finishes: Airport
Smolensk finishes: Rifleman
Tver' grows to size 8
Novosibirsk grows to size 7
Novosibirsk finishes: Library

Other Player Actions:
Christianity has spread: Rostov

Turn 217/473 (1904 AD) [07-Nov-2009 17:27:03]
Novgorod begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
Smolensk begins: Airport (8 turns)
Novosibirsk begins: Market (6 turns)
A Lumbermill was built near Parthian
A Watermill was built near St. Petersburg
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Magadan
Yakutsk begins: Airport (7 turns)
Novgorod begins: Islamic Missionary (1 turns)
Rostov begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (3 turns)
0% Research: 381 per turn
0% Culture: 732 per turn
0% Espionage: 52 per turn
100% Gold: 517 per turn, 332 in the bank

After End Turn:
Novgorod finishes: Islamic Missionary
Yaroslavl' grows to size 12
Novosibirsk grows to size 8
Magadan grows to size 4

Turn 218/473 (1905 AD) [07-Nov-2009 17:55:42]
Novgorod begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
A Fort was built near Khabarovsk
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Orenburg
Mining Inc has spread: Khabarovsk
100% Research: 995 per turn
0% Culture: 792 per turn
0% Espionage: 57 per turn
0% Gold: -276 per turn, 697 in the bank

After End Turn:
Novgorod finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Yekaterinburg finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Khabarovsk finishes: Grocer
Bryansk finishes: Harbor
Tver' finishes: Market
Magadan finishes: Courthouse

Turn 219/473 (1906 AD) [07-Nov-2009 18:02:32]
Novgorod begins: Airport (4 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
Khabarovsk begins: Library (4 turns)
Tver' begins: Harbor (3 turns)
Magadan begins: Library (4 turns)
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Yakutsk
A Lumbermill was built near Tver'
Yekaterinburg begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
0% Research: 396 per turn
0% Culture: 888 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
100% Gold: 485 per turn, 340 in the bank

After End Turn:
Rostov finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Yekaterinburg finishes: Work Boat
Vladivostok finishes: Airport
Orenburg grows to size 9
Orenburg's borders expand
Tver' grows to size 9
Magadan grows to size 5
Magadan's borders expand

Turn 220/473 (1907 AD) [07-Nov-2009 18:13:35]
Diplomacy: Churchill (England) offers to trade Military Tradition to Stalin (Russia) for Physics
Tech traded to Churchill (England): Physics
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Military Tradition
Diplomacy: De Gaulle (France) offers to trade Defensive Pact to Stalin (Russia) for Defensive Pact
Yekaterinburg begins: Sid's Sushi Executive (2 turns)
Vladivostok begins: Observatory (5 turns)
Islam has spread: Vladivostok
While attacking, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
While attacking just off shore near Chengdu, Privateer 52 (Yekaterinburg) (3.66/6) defeats Indian Caravel (Prob Victory: 99.6%)
Tver' begins: Barracks (1 turns)
Tver' begins: Airport (7 turns)
Novosibirsk begins: Barracks (1 turns)
Novosibirsk begins: Harbor (3 turns)
Novosibirsk begins: Airport (9 turns)
100% Research: 1002 per turn
0% Culture: 889 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
0% Gold: -181 per turn, 869 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yaroslavl''s borders expand
Yekaterinburg finishes: Sid's Sushi Executive
Orenburg finishes: Airport
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Airport
Khabarovsk grows to size 6
Tver' finishes: Harbor
Novosibirsk grows to size 9
Magadan grows to size 6

Turn 221/473 (1908 AD) [07-Nov-2009 18:24:31]
Yekaterinburg begins: Carrier (2 turns)
Orenburg begins: Mining Inc Executive (3 turns)
Orenburg begins: Rifleman (3 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Rifleman (3 turns)
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Vladivostok
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Smolensk
Khabarovsk begins: Barracks (2 turns)
Khabarovsk begins: Harbor (4 turns)
Khabarovsk begins: Airport (10 turns)
Vladivostok begins: Islamic Temple (3 turns)
100% Research: 1019 per turn
0% Culture: 1015 per turn
0% Espionage: 60 per turn
0% Gold: -267 per turn, 543 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yaroslavl' finishes: Airport
Yekaterinburg finishes: Carrier
Yakutsk grows to size 11
Vladivostok grows to size 8
Smolensk grows to size 8
Smolensk's borders expand
Orenburg grows to size 10
Khabarovsk finishes: Library
Tver' finishes: Barracks

Turn 222/473 (1909 AD) [07-Nov-2009 18:31:45]
Diplomacy: De Gaulle (France) cancels trade of Clam to Stalin (Russia) for Stone
Yekaterinburg begins: Destroyer (2 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Transport (1 turns)
A Fort was built near Smolensk
A Watermill was built near St. Petersburg
Sid's Sushi Co has spread: Khabarovsk
A Fort was built near Yaroslavl'
Carrier 101 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
Carrier 101 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Medic I
Vladivostok begins: Islamic Temple (3 turns)
Magadan begins: Barracks (1 turns)
Magadan begins: Airport (10 turns)
60% Research: 813 per turn
0% Culture: 1080 per turn
0% Espionage: 60 per turn
40% Gold: 32 per turn, 199 in the bank

After End Turn:
Bi Sheng (Great Engineer) born in Moscow
Novgorod finishes: Airport
Yekaterinburg finishes: Transport
Yakutsk finishes: Airport
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Rifleman
Khabarovsk finishes: Barracks
Tver' grows to size 10
Novosibirsk finishes: Market
Magadan grows to size 7
Magadan finishes: Library

Turn 223/473 (1910 AD) [07-Nov-2009 18:40:08]
Diplomacy: Roosevelt (America) cancels trade of Clam to Stalin (Russia) for Marble
Novgorod begins: Destroyer (3 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Destroyer (2 turns)
Yakutsk begins: Destroyer (3 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Destroyer (4 turns)
Transport 102 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
Transport 102 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Medic I
A Fishing Boats was builtThis is the F1 screen 2:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233710&stc=1&d=1257617356
I mistakenly built 1 Sushi Exec more than the needed (i'm human after all :)). We can spare him for a newly conquered city.

I built all the needed improvements, included some WS and WM over old farms in mainland.
The GS popped from Rostov as planned and Moscow popped a GE.
Then i has a GG using our last 2 privateers and managed to gain some money, too. After defeat an American frigate, i retired them on port.
Broadway (StPete) will be in next turn.
I renegotiated some trade, mainly furs with dG, but the AI asked some renegotiations too and i managed to squeeze some more gpt and resources.
A coup of luck: gems popped from a mine near Novosibirsk, gifting us 2 more happiness.
MT was on the table and Churchill offered to trade it for Physics. He was the only AI lacking that tech, so i accepted. We can build Cossacks if you want. Better avoid them, IMO.

I used the GG attached to the Pike in Yaro (now replaced by a Mace) to give him Medic3+Morale and upgraded to rifle for free.
The GE will be used for the CR in Moscow, as soon as we'll have Radio, so we'll can switch civics back and forth at wish.

Many cities have now the needed buildings and they're building units. Navy for now, then Rifles/SAM.

Be careful next TS:
- 2 stacked workers SW of Smolensk are building a Lumbermill over a fort. Stop them before they're done, that fort is needed for Seattle.
- 1 worker is waiting in Yaroslav to be airlifted to Yakutsk to build a WS in an unimproved tile.
- Many cities are growing fast, i already blocked the ones at size 12, block them once they will arrive to that size.

unclethrill

Nov 07, 2009, 02:11 PM

Got it. Will post a PPP tomorrow night.

BTW. Great TS!. I'll work hard to find something you screwed up LOL!

unclethrill

Nov 08, 2009, 04:31 PM

Here is my PPP. Tear it up all.

Finish Fission -> Rocketry -> Radio

All cities complete current builds.

Moscow switch to MP as soon as Fission in.

Smolnek - Destroyer, RM
Oremburg - Destroyer, Transport, RM
Rostov - Tranport, Destroyer
Novo - Transport, Transport, Destroyer, RM, RM
Yek - Destroyer, Transport, Transport, Destroyer, RM, RM
Yar - RM, RM, RM,
SP - PT, Cossack, Cossack
Vlad - Transport, RM, RM
Yak - Transport, Transport, RM
Bran - Destroyer,
Kras - Destroyer, RM
Tver - RM

Workers: Build more railroads on the mainland. Convert a farm in Moscow to a WS,

Build RR to G cities to expedite the cities growths after we take them. (Just a thought. What does everyone think about it? It would help G move his troops but if we take him in 2 turns as BLubz says then it is a non-issue)

Trades:

Hit musicals for MI resources

I will end my TS when MP is in (9 turns). By my count we will then have, 14 Destroyers (2 more building), 11 Transports (2 more building), 20 RM (10 more building), 2 Cossacks and should finish Rocketry the same turn or 1 away depending on money.

BLubmuz

Nov 09, 2009, 04:24 AM

Finish Fission -> Rocketry -> Radio
OK

All cities complete current builds.
OK. I left some more in queue in the newest ones, please keep it

Moscow switch to MP as soon as Fission in.
It's now building wealth, of course you'll start MP
and of course you'll start Tacs there right after it!

i suppose RM means Rifleman, right?

Now, i don't remember which cities have a drydock.
This can be the guideline:
- build destroyers only in those cities
- build transports only in Novgorod and Yek, so they can be promoted to C1+M1
- i think that when we have enough destroyers to cover all the sectors in the map, we can stop, for now
- then we can build subs after Radio, they not only carry missiles, they can help destroyers in eliminating frigates
- after Radio, we can upgrade all our galleons to transports
- we need 7 transports for now, then once upgraded the galleons (5 IIRC) we'll have enough for any task (Amphibious attacks and workers ferry)

Once completed (or while completing) our starting modern navy, we need 3 fighters for the carrier: you can build them in some not-so-powerful city.
After the transports and maybe some destroyer, Novgorod and Yek can start build rifles: they can be promoted to C2+Amphibious.

No cossacks, please. In case we can upgrade that WE in StPete, just for the fun to have our UU

Smolensk - Destroyer, RM
Oremburg - Destroyer, Transport, RM
Rostov - Tranport, Destroyer
Novo - Transport, Transport, Destroyer, RM, RM
Yek - Destroyer, Transport, Transport, Destroyer, RM, RM
Yar - RM, RM, RM,
SP - PT, Cossack, Cossack
Vlad - Transport, RM, RM
Yak - Transport, Transport, RM
Bran - Destroyer,
Kras - Destroyer, RM
Tver - RM

Workers: Build more railroads on the mainland. Convert a farm in Moscow to a WS,
I hope that is not the farm which irrigates the corn+rice. If so (and i suppose it is), don't do it!

Build RR to G cities to expedite the cities growths after we take them. (Just a thought. What does everyone think about it? It would help G move his troops but if we take him in 2 turns as BLubz says then it is a non-issue)
No, better avoid it!
It's true we can finish him in 2 turns, but if we build RR for him he can cause some trouble in those turns. No, RR where you want, but only inside our borders.

Trades:
Hit musicals for MI resources
We're now trading for every possible resource the AI can offer. This can be a good idea, to speed up the production.

I will end my TS when MP is in (9 turns). By my count we will then have, 14 Destroyers (2 more building), 11 Transports (2 more building), 20 RM (10 more building), 2 Cossacks and should finish Rocketry the same turn or 1 away depending on money.If you build wealth in some city, provided this has all the specialists buildings after completed the navy i described, we can arrive sooner to rocketry and build SAM instead of RM. RM are not so useful and expensive to upgrade.

Attention: please do not upgrade the GG to SAM: we'll upgrade him to infantry when avaiable. SAMs are almost useless for us and we build them only 'cause the game switches to them from RMs (well, and 'cause they have 18 compared to 14).
But the infantry has 20 strenght and a +25% bonus vs. GP units. It's huge.

I hope you can arrive to finish rocketry in 6 turns. I know it's possible.
Starting from your full first turn, we can arrive to complete rocketry and radio in 12 turns.
5-6 more to complete subs and Tacs and we'll be ready in 1928 max.

Later i'll open the save, so i can be more detailed.

BLubmuz

Nov 09, 2009, 06:36 AM

Specialists buildings needed:
Market
Khabarovsk
Magadan

Grocer
Tver
Novosibirsk
Magadan

Observatory
all the cities but the 4 early ones. we can consider to build them after radio, maybe

Military buildings needed:
Barracks
only the 2 newest cities are 1 turn to complete them, present in any other city.

Airports
built or queued in all the cities. Absolute priority over any other building.

Theaters
Moscow: Next turn will start a Theatre. The huge overflow will go in the MP and we can have it almost for free.
Yek: start a theatre immediately, the overflow will go into the destroyer and in 2 turns we'll have both.
Novgorod: same as Yek. After those theaters, we can build the Globe in Novgorod or in StPete.
Then we can consider to build some in all our cities if we ever need to raise the culture slider.

Workers
i got second toughts about the farm near Moscow: go ahead with the WS, we don't need irrigation.
We can also keep your idea to RR some indian tile: only the Indian border ones and one/turn, with 3 workers stacked: we gain some turn when the time to clean fallouts will arrive and G gains nothing. We also not pay maintenance.

The notes above are also for my TS, so i don't need to study the cities again over this aspect.

unclethrill

Nov 09, 2009, 11:04 AM

So how many Destroyers do you want to see? I got all the rest down.

BLubmuz

Nov 09, 2009, 12:17 PM

So how many Destroyers do you want to see? I got all the rest down.Let me see, i go by memory:
1 in Briansk area (already there)
1 in Vladi/Yakutsk area (the 2sugar islands) (already there)
1 in Oremburg area
1 in Khabarovsk area (2 silver+crabs)
1 right outside Novgorod
2 together with the transports and the carrier W of Rostov (1 already there)

Now we have 3, we must have 7 before the war starts, so no reason to hurry. We need only 4 more, for now. Probably some 4-5 more after Radio.

Since we're talkin'bout Navy, let's see the transports
1 S of Yakutsk
1 S of Novgorod
5 W of Rostov (with the carrier)

Now we have 3 and 5 galleons. This makes 4 more to build, for total 7 before the war. After radio we'll upgrade the galleons and with 12 we can go 'til the end.

To speed up research, after any city will have a RM, together with the present defender, you can build wealth unless that city doesn't needs the buildings i listed.

Be care to not pass size 12. Be very care, they grow at lightspeed. And verify them every turn, the city governor usually assigns spies. We need merchants, everywhere but in Moscow and Rostov. If/when you build wealth, please remember to change the Eng with a Merc.

edit: i decided to open the save, i'm still human :)

unclethrill

Nov 09, 2009, 03:17 PM

I added in BLubz's requests.

This will get all the required buildings that are possible, gets the right number of Destroyers (4 are being built already), transports and Rifles and then focuses on wealth to bring in techs.

Finish Fission -> Rocketry -> Radio

All cities complete current builds.

Moscow switch to MP as soon as Fission in.

Moscow - Theatre, MP
Smolnek - RM, RM, wealth
Oremburg - RM, wealth
Rostov - RM, wealth
Novgorod - Theatre, Transport, Transport,
Yek - Theatre, Finish Destroyer, Transport, Transport,
Yar - RM, Wealth
SP - PT, Globe
Vlad - RM, Wealth
Yak - RM, Wealth
Bran - RM, Wealth
Kras - RM, Wealth
Tver - Grocer
Khab - Market

Workers: Build more railroads on the mainland. Convert a farm in Moscow to a WS,
Specified RR in G's land
Trades:

Hit musicals for MI resources

I will end my TS when MP is in (9 turns).

I plan to play in the next few hours but I will check back before I do to see if there are anymore comments.

unclethrill

Nov 09, 2009, 05:54 PM

So I guess I'll go ahead and play since no one else is likely to comment.

unclethrill

Nov 09, 2009, 08:25 PM

TS Played:

I went ahead and played all 12 of my turns.

game save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm10/Fifth_Element_SG010_AD1922_01.CivBeyondSwordSave)

Here are the highlights:

1. Fission in.
2. Broadway in
3. Traded 1 hit musical for 1 gold with dG
4. Lost a frigate to a privateer (dangit)
5. Reached 20 million people
6. Killed a barb galley
7. Rocketry in 1917. 6 turn after Fission
8. Everything completly RR on mainland. Moving workers to a stack in SP
9. Radio in 6
10. MP in. 6 Nukes started
11. Rifle or sam in every city
12. 3 fighters on carrier
13. Traded for 1 iron for hit musical to Roos
14. GT done in SP
15. 6 tac done.

Radio is one turn out. All the nukes are done for G.

unclethrill

Nov 09, 2009, 08:27 PM

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1910 AD to 1922 AD:

Turn 500, 1910 AD: You have discovered Fission!
Turn 500, 1910 AD: Stalin has completed Broadway!
Turn 500, 1910 AD: You have constructed Broadway in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Airport.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: You have constructed a Theatre in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Destroyer.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: You have constructed a Observatory in Vladivostok. Work has now begun on a Islamic Temple.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: You have constructed a Airport in Smolensk. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Orenburg. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: The borders of Khabarovsk have expanded!
Turn 500, 1910 AD: The borders of Tver' have expanded!
Turn 500, 1910 AD: The borders of Novosibirsk have expanded!
Turn 500, 1910 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Novosibirsk. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 500, 1910 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Magadan. Work has now begun on a Airport.

Turn 501, 1911 AD: You have trained a Destroyer in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Transport.
Turn 501, 1911 AD: You have constructed a Airport in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 501, 1911 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.

Turn 502, 1912 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) (8.80) vs Barbarian's Privateer (7.20)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Combat Odds: 73.8%
Turn 502, 1912 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Barbarian's Privateer is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow) is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 502, 1912 AD: Barbarian's Privateer has defeated Stalin's Frigate 11 (Moscow)!
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have constructed a Airport in St. Petersburg. Work has now begun on a Public Transportation.
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have trained a Transport in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Transport.
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have trained a Destroyer in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Transport.
Turn 502, 1912 AD: The borders of Yakutsk have expanded!
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have trained a Destroyer in Yakutsk. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have constructed a Islamic Temple in Vladivostok. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Orenburg. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Khabarovsk. Work has now begun on a Airport.
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have constructed a Airport in Bryansk. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 502, 1912 AD: You have constructed a Harbor in Novosibirsk. Work has now begun on a Airport.

Turn 503, 1913 AD: You have trained a Transport in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Transport.
Turn 503, 1913 AD: The borders of Vladivostok have expanded!
Turn 503, 1913 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Smolensk. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 503, 1913 AD: You have trained a Destroyer in Krasnoyarsk. Work has now begun on a Rifleman.
Turn 503, 1913 AD: Giovanni de Medici (Great Merchant) has been born in Boston (Roosevelt)!
Turn 503, 1913 AD: Charlotte Corday (Great Spy) has been born in Beijing (Mao Zedong)!

Turn 504, 1914 AD: The borders of St. Petersburg have expanded!
Turn 504, 1914 AD: You have trained a Transport in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Fighter.
Turn 504, 1914 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Fighter.
Turn 504, 1914 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Fighter.
Turn 504, 1914 AD: You have trained a Transport in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 504, 1914 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Yakutsk. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 504, 1914 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Vladivostok. Work has now begun on a Wealth.

Turn 505, 1915 AD: You have trained a Fighter in Novgorod. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 505, 1915 AD: You have trained a Rifleman in Smolensk. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 505, 1915 AD: The borders of Orenburg have expanded!
Turn 505, 1915 AD: You have constructed a Airport in Tver'. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 505, 1915 AD: The borders of Magadan have expanded!
Turn 505, 1915 AD: De Gaulle adopts Universal Suffrage!
Turn 505, 1915 AD: De Gaulle adopts Free Religion!

Turn 506, 1916 AD: Stalin's Frigate 1 (9.60) vs Barbarian's Galley (2.40)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 506, 1916 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: Stalin's Frigate 1 is hit for 10 (90/100HP)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: Stalin's Frigate 1 is hit for 10 (80/100HP)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 506, 1916 AD: Stalin's Frigate 1 has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 506, 1916 AD: You have discovered Rocketry!
Turn 506, 1916 AD: You have trained a Fighter in Rostov. Work has now begun on a Wealth.

Turn 507, 1917 AD: Stalin has completed The Manhattan Project!
Turn 507, 1917 AD: Novgorod celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 507, 1917 AD: You have trained a Fighter in Yaroslavl'. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 507, 1917 AD: The borders of Smolensk have expanded!
Turn 507, 1917 AD: You have trained a SAM Infantry in Krasnoyarsk. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 507, 1917 AD: You have trained a SAM Infantry in Bryansk. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 507, 1917 AD: Tver' celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 508, 1918 AD: Novgorod celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 508, 1918 AD: You have constructed a Grocer in Tver'. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 508, 1918 AD: Tver' celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 509, 1919 AD: You have trained a Tactical Nuke in Yekaterinburg. Work has now begun on a Tactical Nuke.
Turn 509, 1919 AD: Krasnoyarsk celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 509, 1919 AD: The borders of Khabarovsk have expanded!

Turn 510, 1920 AD: Tver' has grown to size 12.
Turn 510, 1920 AD: Roosevelt has 1270 gold available for trade.
Turn 510, 1920 AD: Mao Zedong has 110 gold available for trade.
Turn 510, 1920 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ? for Tver'.
Turn 510, 1920 AD: Khabarovsk will grow to size 12 on the next turn.
Turn 510, 1920 AD: Novosibirsk will grow to size 13 on the next turn.
Turn 510, 1920 AD: Yaroslavl' celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 510, 1920 AD: Krasnoyarsk celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!
Turn 510, 1920 AD: You have constructed a Airport in Khabarovsk. Work has now begun on a Market.
Turn 510, 1920 AD: You have constructed a Airport in Novosibirsk. Work has now begun on a Grocer.
Turn 510, 1920 AD: Roosevelt adopts Universal Suffrage!

Turn 511, 1921 AD: Khabarovsk has grown to size 12.
Turn 511, 1921 AD: Gandhi has 180 gold available for trade.
Turn 511, 1921 AD: Magadan will grow to size 12 on the next turn.
Turn 511, 1921 AD: Yaroslavl' celebrates "We Love the Prime Minister Day"!!!

Turn 512, 1922 AD: Magadan has grown to size 12.

unclethrill

Nov 09, 2009, 08:28 PM

Auto log

------------------------------------------------

Turn 223/473 (1910 AD) [10-Nov-2009 04:26:43]

Moscow begins: Theatre (1 turns)

St. Petersburg begins: Public Transportation (3 turns)

Novgorod begins: Transport (2 turns)

Novgorod begins: Transport (2 turns)

Rostov begins: Rifleman (3 turns)

Yaroslavl' begins: Rifleman (4 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Theatre (1 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Transport (1 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Transport (1 turns)

Yakutsk begins: Rifleman (3 turns)

Vladivostok begins: Rifleman (3 turns)

Smolensk begins: Rifleman (3 turns)

Smolensk begins: Rifleman (3 turns)

Orenburg begins: Rifleman (3 turns)

Krasnoyarsk begins: Rifleman (3 turns)

Khabarovsk begins: Market (6 turns)

Bryansk begins: Rifleman (4 turns)

Tver' begins: Grocer (4 turns)

Research begun: Rocketry (1 Turns)

Research begun: Radio (1 Turns)

40% Research: 711 per turn

0% Culture: 1082 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

60% Gold: 34 per turn, 231 in the bank

After End Turn:

Tech research finished: Fission

Moscow finishes: Theatre

St. Petersburg finishes: Broadway

Yekaterinburg finishes: Theatre

Vladivostok grows to size 9

Vladivostok finishes: Observatory

Smolensk grows to size 9

Smolensk finishes: Airport

Orenburg finishes: Rifleman

Khabarovsk grows to size 7

Khabarovsk's borders expand

Tver''s borders expand

Novosibirsk grows to size 10

Novosibirsk's borders expand

Novosibirsk finishes: Barracks

Magadan grows to size 8

Magadan finishes: Barracks

Turn 224/473 (1911 AD) [10-Nov-2009 04:37:41]

Rostov begins: Fighter (3 turns)

Rostov begins: Fighter (3 turns)

Rostov begins: Fighter (3 turns)

Novgorod begins: Fighter (2 turns)

Yaroslavl' begins: Fighter (3 turns)

70% Research: 918 per turn

0% Culture: 1129 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

30% Gold: -219 per turn, 274 in the bank

After End Turn:

Novgorod finishes: Destroyer

Rostov finishes: Airport

Yaroslavl' finishes: Rifleman

Yakutsk grows to size 12

Khabarovsk grows to size 8

Turn 225/473 (1912 AD) [10-Nov-2009 04:46:49]

While attacking, Frigate 11 (Moscow) escapes from Barbarian Privateer (Prob Victory: 73.8%)

While attacking in Russian territory near Orenburg, Frigate 11 (Moscow) loses to Barbarian Privateer (0.72/6) (Prob Victory: 73.8%)

A Mine was built near Yekaterinburg

0% Research: 480 per turn

0% Culture: 1129 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

100% Gold: 339 per turn, 55 in the bank

After End Turn:

St. Petersburg finishes: Airport

Novgorod finishes: Transport

Yekaterinburg finishes: Destroyer

Yakutsk's borders expand

Yakutsk finishes: Destroyer

Vladivostok grows to size 10

Vladivostok finishes: Islamic Temple

Smolensk grows to size 10

Orenburg grows to size 11

Orenburg finishes: Rifleman

Khabarovsk finishes: Harbor

Bryansk finishes: Airport

Novosibirsk finishes: Harbor

Turn 226/473 (1913 AD) [10-Nov-2009 04:52:18]

Diplomacy: De Gaulle (France) offers to trade Clam to Stalin (Russia) for Uranium

Diplomacy: Stalin (Russia) rejects trade of Uranium to De Gaulle (France) for Clam

A Workshop was built near Moscow

100% Research: 1160 per turn

0% Culture: 1130 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

0% Gold: -385 per turn, 394 in the bank

After End Turn:

Yekaterinburg finishes: Transport

Vladivostok's borders expand

Smolensk finishes: Rifleman

Krasnoyarsk finishes: Destroyer

Khabarovsk grows to size 9

Novosibirsk grows to size 11

Magadan grows to size 9

Turn 227/473 (1914 AD) [10-Nov-2009 04:56:20]

0% Research: 480 per turn

0% Culture: 1130 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

100% Gold: 391 per turn, 10 in the bank

After End Turn:

St. Petersburg's borders expand

St. Petersburg finishes: Public Transportation

Novgorod finishes: Transport

Rostov finishes: Rifleman

Yaroslavl' finishes: Rifleman

Yekaterinburg finishes: Transport

Yakutsk finishes: Rifleman

Vladivostok grows to size 11

Vladivostok finishes: Rifleman

Tver' grows to size 11

Turn 228/473 (1915 AD) [10-Nov-2009 05:11:52]

St. Petersburg begins: Globe Theatre (4 turns)

100% Research: 1198 per turn

0% Culture: 1130 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

0% Gold: -220 per turn, 409 in the bank

After End Turn:

Novgorod finishes: Fighter

Smolensk grows to size 11

Smolensk finishes: Rifleman

Orenburg grows to size 12

Orenburg's borders expand

Khabarovsk grows to size 10

Tver' finishes: Airport

Magadan grows to size 10

Magadan's borders expand

Other Player Actions:

State Religion Change: De Gaulle (France) from 'Buddhism' to 'no State Religion'

Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

Civics Change: De Gaulle(France) from 'Hereditary Rule' to 'Universal Suffrage'

Civics Change: De Gaulle(France) from 'Theocracy' to 'Free Religion'

Turn 229/473 (1916 AD) [10-Nov-2009 05:17:54]

Diplomacy: De Gaulle (France) offers to trade Military Science to Stalin (Russia) for Steel

Diplomacy (Civic Request): Gandhi (India) asks Stalin (Russia) to switch to Universal Suffrage; Stalin REFUSES.

A Mine was built

While attacking, Frigate 1 decimates Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

While attacking in Barbarian territory near Novosibirsk, Frigate 1 (6.40/8) defeats Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

100% Research: 1223 per turn

0% Culture: 1130 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

0% Gold: -41 per turn, 189 in the bank

After End Turn:

Tech research finished: Rocketry

Rostov finishes: Fighter

Vladivostok grows to size 12

Novosibirsk grows to size 12

Turn 230/473 (1917 AD) [10-Nov-2009 05:35:22]

100% Research: 1285 per turn

0% Culture: 1130 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

0% Gold: -42 per turn, 148 in the bank

After End Turn:

Moscow finishes: The Manhattan Project

St. Petersburg finishes: Globe Theatre

Yaroslavl' finishes: Fighter

Smolensk grows to size 12

Smolensk's borders expand

Krasnoyarsk finishes: SAM Infantry

Khabarovsk grows to size 11

Bryansk finishes: SAM Infantry

Turn 231/473 (1918 AD) [10-Nov-2009 05:46:21]

Diplomacy: Gandhi (India) offers to trade Clam to Stalin (Russia) for Uranium

Diplomacy: Stalin (Russia) rejects trade of Uranium to Gandhi (India) for Clam

Moscow begins: Tactical Nuke (2 turns)

Novgorod begins: Tactical Nuke (4 turns)

St. Petersburg begins: Tactical Nuke (4 turns)

Yaroslavl' begins: Tactical Nuke (8 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Tactical Nuke (3 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Tactical Nuke (3 turns)

100% Research: 1326 per turn

0% Culture: 1145 per turn

0% Espionage: 60 per turn

0% Gold: 15 per turn, 106 in the bank

After End Turn:

Tver' finishes: Grocer

Magadan grows to size 11

Magadan finishes: Airport

Turn 232/473 (1919 AD) [10-Nov-2009 05:58:47]

Magadan begins: Market (6 turns)

100% Research: 1334 per turn

0% Culture: 1145 per turn

0% Espionage: 65 per turn

0% Gold: -56 per turn, 121 in the bank

After End Turn:

Moscow finishes: Tactical Nuke

Yekaterinburg finishes: Tactical Nuke

Khabarovsk's borders expand

Tver' grows to size 12

Turn 233/473 (1920 AD) [10-Nov-2009 05:59:44]

Diplomacy: Roosevelt (America) offers to trade Defensive Pact to Stalin (Russia) for Defensive Pact

Diplomacy: Stalin (Russia) rejects trade of Defensive Pact to Roosevelt (America) for Defensive Pact

Moscow begins: Tactical Nuke (2 turns)

Novosibirsk begins: Grocer (5 turns)

100% Research: 1342 per turn

0% Culture: 1145 per turn

0% Espionage: 55 per turn

0% Gold: -6 per turn, 65 in the bank

After End Turn:

Khabarovsk grows to size 12

Khabarovsk finishes: Airport

Novosibirsk finishes: Airport

Other Player Actions:

Civics Change: Roosevelt(America) from 'Hereditary Rule' to 'Universal Suffrage'

Turn 234/473 (1921 AD) [10-Nov-2009 06:06:00]

Diplomacy: Roosevelt (America) offers to trade Fish to Stalin (Russia) for Uranium

Diplomacy: Stalin (Russia) rejects trade of Uranium to Roosevelt (America) for Fish

100% Research: 1358 per turn

0% Culture: 1145 per turn

0% Espionage: 60 per turn

0% Gold: 23 per turn, 59 in the bank

After End Turn:

Moscow finishes: Tactical Nuke

St. Petersburg finishes: Tactical Nuke

Novgorod finishes: Tactical Nuke

Yekaterinburg finishes: Tactical Nuke

Magadan grows to size 12

Turn 235/473 (1922 AD) [10-Nov-2009 06:07:28]

Moscow begins: Tactical Nuke (2 turns)

St. Petersburg begins: Tactical Nuke (4 turns)

Novgorod begins: Tactical Nuke (4 turns)

Yekaterinburg begins: Tactical Nuke (3 turns)

BLubmuz

Nov 10, 2009, 03:18 AM

Good for research, less for troops.
We're lacking SAMs. We need now to build as much as possible of them to load the transports. We probably need to delay some turn to have the transports in position and the necessary troops.

I guess we can't start the war before 5 more turns, maybe 6.

I noticed that Roos has a load of money. What about sell him Medicine for communism and all his gold?

My PPP is quite simple: build SAMIs everywhere, subs in Yek starting next turn.
Moscow will GE-rush the CR next turn, then a couple SAM, then only nukes.

G can be wiped by 1930. I'll see if i can squeeze Chur too by then.

Research: complete Radio (1 turn) Ecology, AL, Fascism, Refrigeration (+1 move for ships) Or maybe satellites > Adv flight. But i think in my TS i can probably only complete Ecology, so we have time to discuss.

So, the above is my PPP, if you have doubts.

unclethrill

Nov 10, 2009, 11:15 AM

Good for research, less for troops.
We're lacking SAMs. We need now to build as much as possible of them to load the transports. We probably need to delay some turn to have the transports in position and the necessary troops.

I guess we can't start the war before 5 more turns, maybe 6.

My thought was that if all the cities build wealth then we can get Radio in fast. Then while the few subs are being built, we can churn out troops in all the cities. That should time out well to get subs and troops all ready in about 6 turns which I understood to be the goal to start attacking.

We can't start the war until the subs are ready so the faster that radio is in the faster we can start the war. No reason to have a bunch of SAMs waiting around and costing money before we can use them.

BLubmuz

Nov 10, 2009, 11:55 AM

I understand. 6 turns can be enough.

What about the trade for Medicine/Communism with Roos? He has almost 1000 gold.
and he has more 2 turns ago :mad: i can see it in gamelog. nothing escapes me

:lol:

unclethrill

Nov 10, 2009, 01:56 PM

Take it. Not sure How I missed that. I was checking F4 every turn but like you say, nothing gets past you. I see it in the log but damn I sure did miss it in the game. HE must have done a trade mission. No where else he could have gotten all that money.

I think taking his money is good idea. Especially since that tech will not give him any advantage

unclethrill

Nov 10, 2009, 03:23 PM

Roster:

Unclethrill - UP
Blubmuz - on deck
Greatbeyond
Culdeus
Blubmuz - resting

I just noticed that our team is so small that you are both on deck and resting at the same time!:lol:

BLubmuz

Nov 11, 2009, 10:51 AM

TS played, the save
Wiped Churchill before G (1927), then G starting in 1930 and finishing in 1932.
3 turns, actually. Lost 4 SAMs.
the game log Here is your Session Turn Log from 1922 AD to 1934 AD:

Turn 512, 1922 AD: You have discovered Communism!
Turn 512, 1922 AD: You have discovered Radio!

Turn 524, 1934 AD: Roosevelt has 70 gold available for trade.too long, posted a TXT.

And the autolog, part 1Turn 235/473 (1922 AD) [11-Nov-2009 14:43:52]
Tech traded to Roosevelt (America): Medicine
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Communism
St. Petersburg begins: Cossack (2 turns)
Novgorod begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Rostov begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: SAM Infantry (2 turns)
Yakutsk begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Novosibirsk begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
DEFAULT (Destroyer) promoted: Combat I
Smolensk begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Orenburg begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Khabarovsk begins: SAM Infantry (5 turns)
Bryansk begins: SAM Infantry (6 turns)
Tver' begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Magadan begins: Harbor (3 turns)
Magadan begins: Grocer (5 turns)
Magadan begins: Harbor (3 turns)
Vladivostok begins: SAM Infantry (8 turns)
DEFAULT (Transport) promoted: Combat I
DEFAULT (Transport) promoted: Medic I
DEFAULT (Transport) promoted: Combat I
DEFAULT (Transport) promoted: Medic I
DEFAULT (Transport) promoted: Combat I
DEFAULT (Transport) promoted: Medic I
100% Research: 1253 per turn
0% Culture: 1145 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
0% Gold: -451 per turn, 662 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Radio
Yekaterinburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Novosibirsk finishes: Work Boat

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 236/473 (1923 AD) [11-Nov-2009 15:20:10]
Research begun: Ecology (6 Turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Submarine (2 turns)
A Fishing Boats was built near Parthian
DEFAULT (Transport) promoted: Combat I
DEFAULT (Transport) promoted: Medic I
A Workshop was built near St. Petersburg
0% Research: 615 per turn
0% Culture: 1191 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
100% Gold: 297 per turn, 211 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Tactical Nuke
St. Petersburg finishes: Cossack
Novgorod finishes: SAM Infantry
Albert Einstein (Great Scientist) born in Rostov
Yekaterinburg finishes: Submarine
Magadan finishes: Market

Turn 237/473 (1924 AD) [11-Nov-2009 16:35:55]
Diplomacy: Mao Zedong (China) offers to trade Incense to Stalin (Russia) for Uranium
Moscow begins: Cristo Redentor (6 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Novgorod begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Submarine (2 turns)
Submarine 109 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Flanking I
Submarine 109 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Sentry
Cossack 107 (St. Petersburg) promoted: Combat I
0% Research: 615 per turn
0% Culture: 1145 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
100% Gold: 312 per turn, 508 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yaroslavl' finishes: Tactical Nuke
Yakutsk finishes: SAM Infantry
Orenburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Krasnoyarsk finishes: SAM Infantry
Tver' finishes: SAM Infantry

Turn 238/473 (1925 AD) [11-Nov-2009 16:42:21]
Yaroslavl' begins: Tactical Nuke (8 turns)
Yakutsk begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Orenburg begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Tver' begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
100% Research: 1225 per turn
0% Culture: 1145 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
0% Gold: -483 per turn, 820 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Novgorod finishes: SAM Infantry
Rostov finishes: SAM Infantry
Yekaterinburg finishes: Submarine
Vladivostok finishes: SAM Infantry
Smolensk finishes: SAM Infantry
Khabarovsk finishes: Market
Bryansk finishes: SAM Infantry

Turn 239/473 (1926 AD) [11-Nov-2009 16:45:28]
St. Petersburg begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Novgorod begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Rostov begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Submarine (2 turns)
Vladivostok begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Smolensk begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Bryansk begins: SAM Infantry (5 turns)
While attacking, DEFAULT (Destroyer) decimates Barbarian Privateer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory near Zhou, DEFAULT (27.00/30) defeats Barbarian Privateer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory at Smolensk, Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) (30.00/30) defeats Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Submarine 118 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Flanking I
Submarine 118 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Navigation I
DEFAULT (Fighter) promoted: Combat I
DEFAULT (Fighter) promoted: Combat II
0% Research: 557 per turn
0% Culture: 1145 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
100% Gold: 304 per turn, 337 in the bank

After End Turn:
Yekaterinburg finishes: Submarine
Yakutsk finishes: SAM Infantry
Novosibirsk finishes: Grocer

Turn 240/473 (1927 AD) [11-Nov-2009 16:55:21]
Yekaterinburg begins: SAM Infantry (2 turns)
Yakutsk begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Novosibirsk begins: Bomber (5 turns)
Submarine 122 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat I
Submarine 122 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Flanking I
Stalin (Russia) declares war on Churchill (England)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 119 (Vladivostok) decimates English Longbowman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in English territory at Coventry, SAM Infantry 119 (Vladivostok) (18.00/18) defeats English Longbowman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 113 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates English Musketman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in English territory at Coventry, SAM Infantry 113 (Krasnoyarsk) (18.00/18) defeats English Musketman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 112 (Orenburg) decimates English Maceman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in English territory at Coventry, SAM Infantry 112 (Orenburg) (15.48/18) defeats English Maceman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 111 (Yakutsk) decimates English Longbowman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in English territory at Coventry, SAM Infantry 111 (Yakutsk) (18.00/18) defeats English Longbowman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Islam has been removed: Coventry (English Empire)
Islam has spread: Coventry
Captured Coventry (Churchill)
English Empire has been eliminated
Coventry begins: Courthouse (163 turns)
100% Research: 1224 per turn
0% Culture: 1191 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
0% Gold: -537 per turn, 728 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Novgorod finishes: SAM Infantry
Yekaterinburg finishes: SAM Infantry
A Village was built near Vladivostok
Orenburg finishes: SAM Infantry

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 241/473 (1928 AD) [11-Nov-2009 17:03:52]
St. Petersburg begins: SAM Infantry (2 turns)
Novgorod begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: SAM Infantry (2 turns)
Orenburg begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
A Workshop was built near Yakutsk
0% Research: 561 per turn
0% Culture: 1191 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
100% Gold: 261 per turn, 191 in the bank

After End Turn:
Rostov finishes: SAM Infantry
Yekaterinburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Vladivostok finishes: SAM Infantry
Smolensk finishes: SAM Infantry
Krasnoyarsk finishes: SAM Infantry
Tver' finishes: SAM Infantry
Magadan finishes: Grocer

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'State Property' to 'Environmentalism'
Civics Change: Mao Zedong(China) from 'Mercantilism' to 'State Property'

Turn 242/473 (1929 AD) [11-Nov-2009 17:08:40]
Diplomacy (Help Request): Mao Zedong (China) asks Stalin (Russia) for Electricity; Stalin REFUSES.
Rostov begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: SAM Infantry (2 turns)
Vladivostok begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Smolensk begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Tver' begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
0% Research: 561 per turn
0% Culture: 1191 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
100% Gold: 354 per turn, 452 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Cristo Redentor
St. Petersburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Novgorod finishes: SAM Infantry
Yekaterinburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Yakutsk finishes: SAM Infantry

Turn 243/473 (1930 AD) [11-Nov-2009 17:14:01]
Moscow begins: Bomber (1 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Bomber (2 turns)
Novgorod begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: SAM Infantry (2 turns)
Yakutsk begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
Stalin (Russia) declares war on Gandhi (India)
While attacking, DEFAULT (Transport) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 98.7%)
While attacking in Russian territory near Bombay, DEFAULT (9.28/16) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 98.7%)
While attacking, DEFAULT (Transport) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 98.7%)
While attacking in Russian territory near Bombay, DEFAULT (13.76/16) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 98.7%)
SAM Infantry 104 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 104 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Amphibious
While attacking, SAM Infantry 104 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 94.3%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 104 (Yekaterinburg) (4.32/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 94.3%)
SAM Infantry 129 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 129 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Amphibious
While attacking, SAM Infantry 129 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 96.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 129 (Yekaterinburg) (7.74/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 96.9%)
SAM Infantry 130 (Vladivostok) promoted: Combat II
While attacking, SAM Infantry 130 (Vladivostok) decimates Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 99.3%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 130 (Vladivostok) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 99.3%)
SAM Infantry 132 (Krasnoyarsk) promoted: Combat II
While attacking, SAM Infantry 132 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 132 (Krasnoyarsk) (14.76/18) defeats Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
SAM Infantry 133 (Tver') promoted: Combat II
While attacking, SAM Infantry 133 (Tver') decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 133 (Tver') (14.58/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
SAM Infantry 114 (Tver') promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 114 (Tver') decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 114 (Tver') (14.58/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
SAM Infantry 117 (Rostov) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 117 (Rostov) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 117 (Rostov) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 120 (Smolensk) decimates Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 120 (Smolensk) (11.52/18) defeats Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 121 (Bryansk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 121 (Bryansk) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, DEFAULT (SAM Infantry) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, DEFAULT (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, DEFAULT (SAM Infantry) decimates Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, DEFAULT (18.00/18) defeats Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, Isoroku Yamamoto (Rifleman) decimates Indian War Elephant (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, Isoroku Yamamoto (14.00/14) defeats Indian War Elephant (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 124 (St. Petersburg) decimates Indian War Elephant (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 124 (St. Petersburg) (15.84/18) defeats Indian War Elephant (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 127 (Orenburg) decimates Indian War Elephant (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Bombay, SAM Infantry 127 (Orenburg) (18.00/18) defeats Indian War Elephant (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Christianity has spread: Bombay
Captured Bombay (Gandhi)
Bombay begins: Forge (163 turns)
DEFAULT (Fighter) promoted: Combat I
While attacking, Submarine 118 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory near Bombay, Submarine 118 (Yekaterinburg) (21.36/24) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, Submarine 109 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking just off shore at Coventry, Submarine 109 (Yekaterinburg) (18.24/24) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking, DEFAULT (Destroyer) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Agra, DEFAULT (26.70/30) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
SAM Infantry 111 (Yakutsk) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 111 (Yakutsk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 88.6%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Agra, SAM Infantry 111 (Yakutsk) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 88.6%)
SAM Infantry 112 (Orenburg) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 112 (Orenburg) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 92.2%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Agra, SAM Infantry 112 (Orenburg) (10.44/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 92.2%)
SAM Infantry 113 (Krasnoyarsk) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 113 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 98.1%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Agra, SAM Infantry 113 (Krasnoyarsk) (3.60/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 98.1%)
SAM Infantry 119 (Vladivostok) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 119 (Vladivostok) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Agra, SAM Infantry 119 (Vladivostok) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.0%)
Buddhism has spread: Agra
Captured Agra (Gandhi)
Agra begins: Forge (163 turns)
While attacking, Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory near Smolensk, Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) (30.00/30) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
SAM Infantry 108 (Novgorod) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 108 (Novgorod) promoted: Amphibious
While attacking, SAM Infantry 108 (Novgorod) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Calcutta, SAM Infantry 108 (Novgorod) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 115 (St. Petersburg) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Calcutta, SAM Infantry 115 (St. Petersburg) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 123 (Yakutsk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Calcutta, SAM Infantry 123 (Yakutsk) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Christianity has been removed: Calcutta (Indian Empire)
Christianity has spread: Calcutta
Captured Calcutta (Gandhi)
Calcutta begins: Forge (163 turns)
SAM Infantry 127 (Orenburg) promoted: City Garrison I
DEFAULT (Destroyer) promoted: Combat I
DEFAULT (Destroyer) promoted: Combat II
100% Research: 1255 per turn
0% Culture: 1419 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
0% Gold: -506 per turn, 1090 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Ecology
Moscow finishes: Bomber
St. Petersburg finishes: Bomber
Orenburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Krasnoyarsk's borders expand
Khabarovsk finishes: SAM Infantry
Bryansk finishes: SAM Infantry
Novosibirsk finishes: Bomber

Other Player Actions:
A Whaling Boats was destroyed near Smolensk
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Furious'

BLubmuz

Nov 11, 2009, 10:55 AM

The autolog part 2 Turn 244/473 (1931 AD) [11-Nov-2009 17:39:30]
Diplomacy: De Gaulle (France) cancels trade of Iron to Stalin (Russia) for Stone
Research begun: Assembly Line (5 Turns)
Moscow begins: Tactical Nuke (2 turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Bomber (2 turns)
Orenburg begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Khabarovsk begins: Tactical Nuke (8 turns)
Bryansk begins: Tactical Nuke (8 turns)
Novosibirsk begins: Bomber (5 turns)
Smolensk begins: Work Boat (1 turns)
While attacking, Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory at Smolensk, Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) (26.70/30) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, DEFAULT (Destroyer) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory near Varanasi, DEFAULT (29.10/30) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
SAM Infantry 111 (Yakutsk) promoted: Combat II
While attacking, SAM Infantry 111 (Yakutsk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 65.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Pataliputra, SAM Infantry 111 (Yakutsk) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 65.0%)
SAM Infantry 112 (Orenburg) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 131 (Smolensk) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 131 (Smolensk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Pataliputra, SAM Infantry 131 (Smolensk) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 137 (Yakutsk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Pataliputra, SAM Infantry 137 (Yakutsk) (18.00/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Christianity has been removed: Pataliputra (Indian Empire)
Christianity has spread: Pataliputra
Captured Pataliputra (Gandhi)
Pataliputra begins: Courthouse (163 turns)
SAM Infantry 113 (Krasnoyarsk) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 121 (Bryansk) promoted: Pinch
DEFAULT (Fighter) promoted: Combat I
SAM Infantry 126 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 126 (Yekaterinburg) promoted: Amphibious
While attacking, SAM Infantry 126 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 93.7%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 126 (Yekaterinburg) (14.58/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 93.7%)
SAM Infantry 130 (Vladivostok) promoted: Amphibious
While attacking, SAM Infantry 130 (Vladivostok) escapes from Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 88.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 130 (Vladivostok) loses to Indian Rifleman (0.28/14) (Prob Victory: 88.4%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 121 (Bryansk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 71.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 121 (Bryansk) (6.66/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 71.4%)
SAM Infantry 124 (St. Petersburg) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 124 (St. Petersburg) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 85.1%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 124 (St. Petersburg) (9.36/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 85.1%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 117 (Rostov) escapes from Indian Anti-Tank (Prob Victory: 77.5%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 117 (Rostov) loses to Indian Anti-Tank (5.88/14) (Prob Victory: 77.5%)
DEFAULT (SAM Infantry) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, DEFAULT (SAM Infantry) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 87.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, DEFAULT (14.40/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 87.4%)
DEFAULT (SAM Infantry) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, DEFAULT (SAM Infantry) escapes from Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 89.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, DEFAULT loses to Indian Artillery (9.00/18) (Prob Victory: 89.9%)
SAM Infantry 120 (Smolensk) promoted: Combat II
While attacking, SAM Infantry 120 (Smolensk) decimates Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 86.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 120 (Smolensk) (0.36/18) defeats Indian Artillery (Prob Victory: 86.9%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 114 (Tver') escapes from Indian Anti-Tank (Prob Victory: 91.1%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 114 (Tver') loses to Indian Anti-Tank (3.08/14) (Prob Victory: 91.1%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 132 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 97.5%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 132 (Krasnoyarsk) (11.34/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 97.5%)
While attacking, SAM Infantry 133 (Tver') decimates Indian Anti-Tank (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 133 (Tver') (14.58/18) defeats Indian Anti-Tank (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
0% Research: 578 per turn
0% Culture: 1440 per turn
0% Espionage: 60 per turn
100% Gold: 223 per turn, 129 in the bank

After End Turn:
Novgorod finishes: SAM Infantry
Yaroslavl' finishes: Tactical Nuke
Ibn Battuta (Great Merchant) born in Yaroslavl'
Yekaterinburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Smolensk finishes: Work Boat
Krasnoyarsk finishes: SAM Infantry
Magadan finishes: Harbor
Coventry's borders expand

Turn 245/473 (1932 AD) [11-Nov-2009 17:54:55]
Novgorod begins: Islamic Temple (2 turns)
Yaroslavl' begins: Tactical Nuke (7 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: Islamic Temple (2 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: SAM Infantry (4 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Mining Inc Executive (3 turns)
Magadan begins: Mining Inc Executive (4 turns)
A Whaling Boats was built near Smolensk
While attacking, Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory at Smolensk, Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) (23.40/30) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, DEFAULT (Destroyer) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory at Smolensk, DEFAULT (29.10/30) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking, Submarine 122 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory near Delhi, Submarine 122 (Yekaterinburg) (21.36/24) defeats Indian Frigate (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Bomber 139 (St. Petersburg) promoted: Combat I
Bomber 138 (Moscow) promoted: Combat I
Bomber 143 (Novosibirsk) promoted: Combat I
While attacking, SAM Infantry 126 (Yekaterinburg) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 88.3%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 126 (Yekaterinburg) (14.58/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 88.3%)
SAM Infantry 132 (Krasnoyarsk) promoted: Amphibious
While attacking, SAM Infantry 132 (Krasnoyarsk) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 88.8%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 132 (Krasnoyarsk) (4.32/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 88.8%)
SAM Infantry 133 (Tver') promoted: Amphibious
While attacking, SAM Infantry 133 (Tver') decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 97.5%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Delhi, SAM Infantry 133 (Tver') (16.20/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 97.5%)
Christianity has been removed: Delhi (Indian Empire)
Christianity has spread: Delhi
Captured Delhi (Gandhi)
Delhi begins: Forge (163 turns)
SAM Infantry 121 (Bryansk) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 128 (Rostov) promoted: Pinch
While attacking, SAM Infantry 128 (Rostov) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 97.9%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Vijayanagara, SAM Infantry 128 (Rostov) (14.40/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 97.9%)
SAM Infantry 124 (St. Petersburg) promoted: Combat II
While attacking, SAM Infantry 124 (St. Petersburg) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 94.4%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Vijayanagara, SAM Infantry 124 (St. Petersburg) (6.12/18) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 94.4%)
While attacking, Isoroku Yamamoto (Rifleman) decimates Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 98.2%)
While attacking in Indian territory at Vijayanagara, Isoroku Yamamoto (7.56/14) defeats Indian Rifleman (Prob Victory: 98.2%)
Christianity has been removed: Vijayanagara (Indian Empire)
Islam has been removed: Vijayanagara (Indian Empire)
Christianity has spread: Vijayanagara
Islam has spread: Vijayanagara
Captured Vijayanagara (Gandhi)
Indian Empire has been eliminated
Vijayanagara begins: Forge (163 turns)
While attacking, Frigate 1 decimates Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Russian territory near Novosibirsk, Frigate 1 (8.00/8) defeats Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
St. Petersburg begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)
Destroyer 89 (Krasnoyarsk) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 120 (Smolensk) promoted: Amphibious
DEFAULT (SAM Infantry) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 140 (Orenburg) promoted: City Garrison I
Rostov begins: Airport (6 turns)
Rifleman 74 (Novgorod) promoted: City Garrison I
Rifleman 76 (Novgorod) promoted: City Garrison I
Rifleman 1 promoted: City Garrison I
Moscow begins: Mining Inc Executive (1 turns)
0% Research: 561 per turn
0% Culture: 1420 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
100% Gold: 265 per turn, 467 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Novgorod finishes: Islamic Temple
Yekaterinburg finishes: Islamic Temple
Yakutsk finishes: SAM Infantry
Vladivostok finishes: SAM Infantry
Smolensk finishes: SAM Infantry
Tver' finishes: SAM Infantry
A Hamlet was built near Coventry

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 246/473 (1933 AD) [11-Nov-2009 18:15:41]
Novgorod begins: Mining Inc Executive (2 turns)
Yekaterinburg begins: SAM Infantry (2 turns)
Yakutsk begins: Tactical Nuke (5 turns)
Vladivostok begins: Tactical Nuke (6 turns)
Smolensk begins: Tactical Nuke (6 turns)
Tver' begins: Tactical Nuke (6 turns)
Isoroku Yamamoto (Rifleman) promoted: Combat II
Mining Inc has spread: Delhi
SAM Infantry 128 (Rostov) promoted: Combat II
SAM Infantry 134 (St. Petersburg) promoted: City Garrison I
SAM Infantry 123 (Yakutsk) promoted: City Garrison I
Yakutsk begins: Destroyer (3 turns)
Moscow begins: Mining Inc Executive (1 turns)
Novgorod begins: SAM Infantry (3 turns)
100% Research: 1263 per turn
0% Culture: 1432 per turn
0% Espionage: 55 per turn
0% Gold: -629 per turn, 652 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Mining Inc Executive
St. Petersburg finishes: Mining Inc Executive
Yekaterinburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Orenburg finishes: SAM Infantry
Krasnoyarsk finishes: Mining Inc Executive

Turn 247/473 (1934 AD) [11-Nov-2009 18:30:39]
Yekaterinburg begins: SAM Infantry (2 turns)
Orenburg begins: Tactical Nuke (6 turns)
Krasnoyarsk begins: Tactical Nuke (6 turns)We're cleaning fallouts now.

We have a GE reserved for Pentagon, a GS and a GM. I suggest to use those 2 for a GAge.