No, this isn't an ideas thread, hence why I added "Pedia" before the "Concepts". :rolleyes:

I've been working on making concepts for the pedia. You know, like Civ 4 Concepts or BTS Concepts. These overwrite the Civ 4 Concepts section (we should all know that stuff by now. If we don't, well...)

Zipped are two files, CIV4BasicInfos (goes in XML\BasicInfo) and TC01GameText.xml (goes in XML\Text). In addition to the concept articles as they are today, there is the text that is displayed when you mouseover the buttons.

Articles:

-Planetary Terrain [Complete]
-The Death Star [Complete]
-Force Powers [Complete]
-Unit Types [Complete]
-Random Planets [Complete]
-Space Terrain [Complete]
-Hero Units [Complete]

Any suggestions for concept articles, anything that needs to be added, changed to the ones attached, please post here.

One for how fighters are used in the game could be helpful

One for how fighters are used in the game could be helpful

I thought fighters and ships would work the same way- like gunships?

Space units have to be able to travel over land terrain, otherwise it will break the mod (cities are placed in the center of a planet).

Yes they do work exactly like gunships. The same with carriers and all space units

would fighters and bombers have rules with going into deep space or something? or would they beable to go anywhere they want?

Well, fighters and bombers routinely operate in deep space, but only if their support ships are there too.

Which is why I suggested making them, well, vanilla Civ-style fighters and bombers. civ_editor also suggested making them die x number of turns after being away from land, but I think this idea's a bit silly, annoying to code, and annoying to make display (and if you can't make it display, then players will just get mad when their units start dying randomly).

Specifically, there's Space, there's Space Features, and then there are the five different planet terrains and the Planet Core feature (used extensively by me in python but doesn't actually do anything in game). So there's nothing in-game to make this workable.

I thought it would be a good idea if you don't like them I'll gladly take the ability away

Just have it so fighters cant go into space, but can be carried on some kind of capital ship; kinda like a carrier for fighters, thats y capital ships in star was have hangars in them :p

How would we implement the way they attack capitol ships, carriers, frigates etc.
That is why I made them able to go anywhere

Just have it so fighters cant go into space, but can be carried on some kind of capital ship; kinda like a carrier for fighters, thats y capital ships in star was have hangars in them :p

Then fighters are useless, since there are two types of terrain:

-Space
-Planetary

And on planetary terrain, infantry units would be just as useful but unable to attack.


I guess you could make a third type, let's call it "Orbit", that would be directly around planets? Maybe every two tiles around a planetary terrain?

A better name would be needed, maybe, but the idea might work.

How about there are two types of space deep space and regular.
Fighters and bombers can't go into deep space but they can go anywhere in normal.
Normal could be 5 plots around a planet as long as that didn't go over a different planet.
Would this work?

5 plots around a planet or in radius around a planet?

and id probably reduce it, i look at it like a coast galleys can go on coasts, but galleons can go on ocean and coasts. So deep space would look like ocean, and coast/rivers would be like regular space.

Well, I think 5 is way too much.

2-plot radius should be the most. Otherwise, there's going to be no room for nebula, black holes, supernovas, etc. etc.

As is, normally a star system has 27 tiles (2 plot radius) in Final Frontier. It only uses one tile but the other ones are empty of other features...

Anything more then an additional two plots to the one-plot radius would probably be bad.

Ok lets go with two plots. should the graphics be the same or different? If so in what way?

I wouldnt make them different i would just fit them with the right colors around the planet

What do you mean by the right colors?

to make it look realistic from planet to space not just land to space

How should I do that and what should I call it

Keep graphics the same for now, I'd say. (For now. I want to get an alpha out sometime in the near future, and delaying to get new space graphics isn't really worth it.)

"Planetary Orbit" or "Planetary Space" I think are good names.

I can do the placement of it and I'll write a new article on space terrain in the concepts section.

Its going to be TERRAIN_PLANETARY is that okay?

Its going to be TERRAIN_PLANETARY is that okay?

TERRAIN_ORBIT would probably be better for modders. PLANETARY would make it sound like some sort of actual planetary terrain (like grass, snow, burning sands, etc.)

I'm opening a new thread for mapscript discussion, so we can keep this one for suggestions of what should be better documented, and the python one for other things that should be implemented.

Okay, concept articles updated as of the current mapscript and python stuff.

Can you give me a list of hero units and their owners? That way I can expand the Hero Units article.

Also, I'm going to make the Named Planets article link to each building (so Balmorra, where listed in the article, links to BUILDING_BALMORRA). You'll need to have a building for each one of the planets in the list on the mapscript thread.

I'll have those soon I'm working on some civs currently

-Planetary Terrain [Complete]
-The Death Star [Complete]
-Force Powers [Complete]
-Unit Types [Complete]
-Random Planets [Complete]
-Space Terrain [Complete]
-Hero Units [Complete]

sweet, but can the AI understand it, the Hero units might behave oddly without some C++ stuff, a pitty I'm no good enough to do anything like that:(

sweet, but can the AI understand it, the Hero units might behave oddly without some C++ stuff, a pitty I'm no good enough to do anything like that:(

It should. It understands national units from vanilla Civ, right? Well, I didn't do any special coding to make hero units work. All I did was use XML tags to limit the number of each hero unit to 1.

Yes but they would still use the unit like a normal unit. It would be nice of hero units sought out enemy hero units and tried to kill them.

Yes but they would still use the unit like a normal unit. It would be nice of hero units sought out enemy hero units and tried to kill them.

But some hero units will be designed to destroy non-hero units, some to do other stuff, and maybe some to do as you say. Look at Fall from Heaven 2. One of their heroes has a great strength boost against other heroes. But the others all have a different purpose.

But some hero units will be designed to destroy non-hero units, some to do other stuff, and maybe some to do as you say. Look at Fall from Heaven 2. One of their heroes has a great strength boost against other heroes. But the others all have a different purpose.

Ok, but what hero units are we talking Vader, Luke...:confused:

Ok, but what hero units are we talking Vader, Luke...:confused:

I honestly have no idea. I asked civ_editor for a list of heroes but he's away right now-if you look at the actual concept page you'll note the only one listed is Vader, since that was the example civ_editor used when he wanted me to make heroes using python (even though it's doable with only XML).

Anyway, while possible AI changing might be needed, I'm not willing to try and mess with the SDK just for that, mainly because I am not an SDK modder (I don't have my computer set up for compiling- I've done a handful of looking around and trying to add things but I haven't ever compiled).

The omly ones I currently have graphics for is death star and darth vader I plan to add many more

The omly ones I currently have graphics for is death star and darth vader I plan to add many more

So the Death Star is a hero unit for the Empire? I'll merge in it's concept article with the hero article.

I don't have graphics for more but I will seee if i can get some

I think the death star should be a national unit (1) for any civilization, i just think it would be too powerful for one civilization to get.

Thats a good idea i'll put it like that

I think the death star should be a national unit (1) for any civilization, i just think it would be too powerful for one civilization to get.

Not just too powerful with just one too powerful, if someone got a death star they would be unstoppable (realistic, but not very fun).

How would you destroy it have a "Luke in X-wing" unit:p

I'd make it a unit that once one civ got, no one else could get, but any civ could get it.

Of course, you can add Death Star II as a second version that any civ could also get if they didn't get the first one.

As to beating them, all you have to do is make the Death Star itself not that strong. It's planet destroying ability is what makes it strong. So you have to send escorts to guard it.

I'd make it a unit that once one civ got, no one else could get, but any civ could get it.

Of course, you can add Death Star II as a second version that any civ could also get if they didn't get the first one.

As to beating them, all you have to do is make the Death Star itself not that strong. It's planet destroying ability is what makes it strong. So you have to send escorts to guard it.

Good Idea!, the only other problem I can think of is that many civs would object to building a super-weapon capable of destroying a planet (as they should), but here they would build it like normal unit.

Also could it be made so you could not build more then one death star simultaneously, thats just a waste of time.

PS: would you have to build a death star prototype first?;)

it should require multiple rare resources also

Good Idea!, the only other problem I can think of is that many civs would object to building a super-weapon capable of destroying a planet (as they should), but here they would build it like normal unit.

Also could it be made so you could not build more then one death star simultaneously, thats just a waste of time.

PS: would you have to build a death star prototype first?;)

maybe you should have something like UN and you can vote: no death stars

You could potentially make them Projects instead of Units. Then on the completion of each PROJECT_DEATH_STAR (Prototype, I, II) you get the Death Star unit of the same name.

UN could equal Galactic Senate?

UN could equal Galactic Senate?

I don't think so, Senate about equals Republic; a civ

Maybe like an intragalactic treaty organization of something (but nothing like that ever happens in Star Wars

We might have to just go without the UN. There is nothing in Star Wars that is alike the un except for the republic which is a civ.

I think we need something as a UN. We can make something up, but it's a pretty important Civ concept.

If we don't find anything else we could just use the galactic senate

Galactic Alliance was supposed to be something like that when it was first formed, but it failed pretty hard.

Yes, that's not going to work. We need to find one that worked or, we'll just use Galactic Senate.

ya i would use galactic senate because the empire actually used it for a little while, and other civilizations used the location also

ya i would use galactic senate because the empire actually used it for a little while, and other civilizations used the location also

That was just to give the planets the illusion of democracy the senate had no real power

We knoow we just need to use that illusion on the people playing the game

lol, just like in civlization when ever a UN vote happens someone always defys resolution and so nothing ever gets done

No what I meant was just use it like that and hope noone realizes the empire in the star wars cannon never used the galactic senate.

No what I meant was just use it like that and hope noone realizes the empire in the star wars cannon never used the galactic senate.

Tricking the player? :nono:

Ahhhh. Why not

they did use, it just for scenery