As many of you might know in the next release we will be removing Reagan and Lenin, as the Russians and Americans already have 3 leaders, and don't need 4. There are many civs that need a second leader, as they are currently stuck with 1. So this thread is for suggestions for the new leader slot that's opening up (we already know who gets to be one of them, Trung Trac for Vietnam).

So please post suggestions to fill the open leader slot. Requirements:

1) The leader must be for a civilization that currently only has 1 leader
2) The leaderhead art must be of high quality
3) The leader must be historically significant, or have good name recognition, or be epic in some other way (like Trung Trac of the Trung Sisters)


All suggestions must have a link to the proposed art to be used, and a link to a source of some sort (like wikipedia), explaining who they are. When we have enough suggestions we will have a vote to see which leader is the most preffered by the LoR players. The two current ideas being floated are Constantine and Dido, however I can't find a link to either of those leaderheads for the art...

Constantine LH

Dido LH

Hearclius LH (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12575)

Hearclius LH (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12575)

Definitely a cool looking LH. But the texture is seriously lacking behind all the in-game LH's.

Dido LH

Founder and first Queen of Carthage : Dido

Wow, that one looks really good. Too few female leader in at the moment - but historically accurate I suppose.

Founder and first Queen of Carthage : Dido

And she can sing pretty good too:p


Wow, that one looks really good. Too few female leader in at the moment - but historically accurate I suppose.

Yeah its historically accurate to have an overwhelming number of male leaders. But more female leaders would be nice. Maybe if we could have at least 10 of them that would be good.

Ok so were here to find 2 good leaders to replace the 2 we are removing. So that the 66 leaders/66 trait combination balnce is maintained. Just as how firaxis would have, if it released a 3rd expansion. Which got me to thinking would they have put Ind/Philo into the game at all? They seemed to avoid that one (the other missing traits are in no way overpowered). So then Im wondering if we should have it in the game at all either?

So, has anyone played with Pericles since he was made Ind/Philo? Im wondering just how powerful it is. Or if it is nearly as powerful as I and a lot of people on the forums think it is. If its gamebreaking, then I think it would be a problem. However if its just a really powerful combo, then I think it would be fine to have it in.

What Firaxis did originally was they'd balance the traits with crappy UU and UB. Maybe that should be done too?

What Firaxis did originally was they'd balance the traits with crappy UU and UB. Maybe that should be done too?

I dont think that they really did that. And if they did they were fairly unsuccesful at it. Redcoat/Stock Exchange and any of the English leaders? Both Ceasars have always ad descent traits and they also have great UU and UB. Id also rather not have it go down that path. I wouldnt like to make a UU crappy when historically it rocked, just to balance these made up things called traits. Also what about the other leader of that civ (if it has a 2nd). They would get the shaft. Besides at present, Pericles has Ind/Philo. So that would mean making the hoplite crappy, and I just cant justify that.

Ok so were here to find 2 good leaders to replace the 2 we are removing. So that the 66 leaders/66 trait combination balnce is maintained. Just as how firaxis would have, if it released a 3rd expansion. Which got me to thinking would they have put Ind/Philo into the game at all? They seemed to avoid that one (the other missing traits are in no way overpowered). So then Im wondering if we should have it in the game at all either?

So, has anyone played with Pericles since he was made Ind/Philo? Im wondering just how powerful it is. Or if it is nearly as powerful as I and a lot of people on the forums think it is. If its gamebreaking, then I think it would be a problem. However if its just a really powerful combo, then I think it would be fine to have it in.

I was thinking Montezuma and El Cid were both Agg/Spi? I don't have my game open to check at the moment.

I used Pericles, but unfortunately I've never been very good at specialist economies, so I wasn't really able to use him to use full effect. That said, he didn't seem overpowered to me, but I didn't completely know what I was doing, either.

I was thinking Montezuma and El Cid were both Agg/Spi? I don't have my game open to check at the moment.

Hmm, they are. Good catch Alsark. That is a mistake, El CId is supposed to be Cha/Spi. Actually Phungus wanted him the be Agg/Spi, but we were unsure if Cha/spi would fit Monty. Being that he is one of the "staple" leaders that everyone loves to hate.

Definitely a cool looking LH. But the texture is seriously lacking behind all the in-game LH's.

BOOO!!!!! [pissed]

BOOO!!!!! [pissed]
:lol:
Hey no offense, its just not as well textured as some of your other ones. Were trying to create an illusion of an expansion pack and that means having the best of the best of the LHs out there. Comparing it to your Hiawatha or Dusan makes it seem like its lacking.

Yeah, I played with Pericles.

Total science domination at Monarch with Standard size Pangea, pulled off an early Pyramids chop with stone. I wouldnt say game breaking, but it does open the way to interesting strategy. However Pericles does have a good UU to back it up with.

Saying that ive done exactly the same thing this time with Darius of Persia at Emperor.

I haven't played against him yet though, maybe next time! I think he should stay as he is, except in multiplayer, it isn't a competitive game, I like the choice of having that combination to play with.

I wouldnt say game breaking, but it does open the way to interesting strategy.


What strategy would that be?

Hmm, they are. Good catch Alsark. That is a mistake, El CId is supposed to be Cha/Spi. Actually Phungus wanted him the be Agg/Spi, but we were unsure if Cha/spi would fit Monty. Being that he is one of the "staple" leaders that everyone loves to hate.

Yeah, Cha/Spi fits El Cid better than it does Montezuma, probably (not that I know a whole lot about what Montezuma was like, though). El Cid, as I wrote in the Civilopedia entry, knew how to keep his men loyal and was a good military commander in general - a good sign of a charismatic leader. While I am sure Montezuma had to have some amount of charisma to be a leader, he seemed to resort more to just wanting to take over other nations. And as you mentioned, Montezuma simply should not be changed. For some reason (using random leaders), he is in EVERY SINGLE GAME I EVER PLAY, and it would just be weird for him to suddenly change.

:lol:
Hey no offense, its just not as well textured as some of your other ones. Were trying to create an illusion of an expansion pack and that means having the best of the best of the LHs out there. Comparing it to your Hiawatha or Dusan makes it seem like its lacking.

Well texturing is certainly my weakest suit, but if anyone would like to fix him up a bit that'd be helpful to both me and to adding a new Byzantine leader that isn't Theodora... or Basil, which I assume you don't think is good enough to be in your mod either. :p

What strategy would that be?

Well ones which use specialists & wonders!
It gives particular bonuses to a specialist economy, also settled specialist economy, or wonder economy.

I'm currently trying to play a cultural win as Pericles, using a 'priest' economy, I want all specialists as great priests settled in my mega capital. I'll post a save if anyone else wants to play along.

what about maria theresa of Austria?

wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Theresa_of_Austria

she certainly qualifies as a notable leader and could contribute to bringing a few more female faces to the table. you could take out Francis for her, if 3 leaders is too much for the country. not like losing several times to Napoleon is much of a feat to merit a position here.

I hope you can find a better leaderhead than the one I saw. Yuck.

I hope you can find a better leaderhead than the one I saw. Yuck.

That Maria by Ekmek would probably have to be retextured to be up for consideration.

Charlemagne and Charles V, both of the Holy Roman Empire. Yes, please bring it back. :D

That Maria by Ekmek would probably have to be retextured to be up for consideration.

probably. but it seems like a good enough basis.

Charles V would be a nice entry. His father was a great politician and planned his ascension - it would have been the first united europe by the time of Rome. Charles V himself was quite enlightened by the time, struggling to keep his domains united in the same years that had seen the born of european "modern" sense of nation.

Of course th main problem is to find a civ for him. I found HRE to be a bit out of place and liked the introduction of Austria. Also, Charles V ruled on that that would become Spain, Netherland and Austria, three civ already existing and with their own leaders.

It might get the place of El Cid [who never ruled Spain] but he was the very spirit of the reconquista, thus it will be odd to remove him. However the spanish were the biggest part of his domain.

It might be a second leader for Dutch - Charles V was ruler of them and very fond of his native land. His advisors were for the most part from netherland. In fact this gave him a lot of trouble because other nations looked at him as a foreign ruler.

And of course, he might be a good Austrian leader... because he was the first of the ausburgian line in that country. The signature dinasty of that nation was born by him, althrought only his son was reckon as the very first of that line [being directly ruler of Austria and nothing more].


IN-game: Spi / Imp for shure.

The only thing that really works for him, given his multi-nationalism, would be Holy Roman Empire. I understand it's kind of a strange entity but I'm still in favor of it.

I'd go Spiritual & Protective, however.

Or perhaps add the Franks? Kind of as a 'bonus civ' or something along thoes lines. Or just put Charles (Which I also second, and I hope it's The Capo's model) with Austria.

The only thing that really works for him, given his multi-nationalism, would be Holy Roman Empire. I understand it's kind of a strange entity but I'm still in favor of it.

I'd go Spiritual & Protective, however.

Or perhaps add the Franks? Kind of as a 'bonus civ' or something along thoes lines. Or just put Charles (Which I also second, and I hope it's The Capo's model) with Austria.

New civs at this point might be a longshot. It would give me a whole bunch of new units to add since there are a whole set of both Holy Rome and Franks, but I dont know if Phungus is up for puttin, in new civ. Even if we added Charles to Austria, that will mean taking away a leader from Austria, which still leaves us in need of another leader. We are looking for a leader of a civ that currently only has 1 leader.

If more leaders and Civs is what you are looking for, Berenthor will be releasing an add on that makes all civs have two leaders plus adding a few new civs.

Even if we added Charles to Austria, that will mean taking away a leader from Austria, which still leaves us in need of another leader. We are looking for a leader of a civ that currently only has 1 leader.

If more leaders and Civs is what you are looking for, Berenthor will be releasing an add on that makes all civs have two leaders plus adding a few new civs.

Charles V to Netherland? It will also be pretty different from Willhelm, thus changing the gameplay.

So we're set on the Trang Sisters... maybe we should vote on our second leader?

We'll probably start voting on the leader once the mod is re-released.

: Accidental super late double post :

Phungus, can we start voting on the new leader?

I vote for just adding Trung. That way we dont have to dole out Ind/Phi (although Pericles does seem most deserving of it)

OK, we will have a vote once 0.9.6c+ gets squared away. Having trouble with the uploads ATM.

From the looks of it will be the Dido who is going to be our second leader. I honestly am not sure when I will have time to work on those entries, though. Since school started (August 24th), I have been VERY busy. Most of my days either look like: class 8:00 AM - 8:00 PM or class 6:30 AM - 4:30 PM, work 5:00 - 11:30. Saturday and Sunday are the only days I get even a tiny bit of free time, and I work half of the day those days, too (and usually they end up making me work a double).

17 credit hours (though they say when you're doing clinicals it's really like +3 of that, so kind of 20 credit hours) and 24 hours of work a week minimum is certainly no fun :/. I told the person who handles the schedules to only schedule me 2-3 days a week, so hopefully I'll be getting at least some half days here and there that I can put towards cranking something out. It shouldn't take any more than about two hours, but for the next few days two hours is sadly quite a squeeze.

*End rant.*