We need beta testers to try out new features for next release: random hero and dynamic initial unit. Documentation about these new features are in HoTK concept section of civilopedia.

Here's the link (http://sites.google.com/site/thehistoryofthreekingdoms/images/TheHistoryofThreeKingdoms.7z) to HoTK release 2.4b4

There are a few things I need to mention:

1. This is an incomplete version. It does not play alone. The only way to play it is copy the downloaded content to your mod folder, overwrite your installed HoTK mod. Please back up first.
2. The only scenario included is a new 194AD scenario. I wish testers to try out Sun Ce using different difficulties above noble. Because now Sun Ce is the only faction in that scenario which is controlled by 'Dynamic Initial Unit' rule.
3. We have added an English changelog in the documentation folder. It contains all the changes we made since last patch release.
4. The DLL included is a Debug DLL, which means it's at least twice as slow as a normal release DLL. So don't try to play long games, just trying out new features to see if they work.
5. Portraits of Random heroes in this beta version all use Guan Yu's. We haven't finished (finding) all those portraits yet. So don't be surprised.
6. A quick note if anyone encounters an error message, take a screenshot. If you happen to have a save just prior to the error, that's even more awesome!

What I really want is some feedbacks about the addition of random heroes, the removal of champions, whether or not dynamic initial unit goes too far. Of course other feedbacks are always welcomed.

Downloading now, thanks. New scenarios are always welcome.

So far I've already had 2 "Assert Failed" in file CyGlobalContext.cpp, line 70, expression idx>=0

(Nice touch, BTW, to have Sun Ce conquer rather than inherit his lands)

I'd gladly test this out, though I'd have to wait another day before I get home to try it out. And from the sound of AP's post, the new scenario looks awesome! (194 is a great start date!)

When I got a new leader, Shi Sheng, the "pick a hero" screen showed up, but there was nothing to click on except confirm. He appeared in another city far away from the action (I'm currently at war with Yan Baihu). Then when I tried to save it crashed, and gave me a file 1.23GB big (which also crashed when I tried to load it).

So I went back and reloaded, this time got a different hero. I formed a legion with him, and saved OK.
Subsequently had a freeze with this when I tried to reload:
File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 3607
Expression: iExisting==-1 || iExisting==idx || strcmp(szType, "ERROR")==0
Message: xml info type entry HERO_RANDOM_1 already exists

OK, the save bug (i.e. freezing and generating a 1.4gb file) is getting really annoying. I was going to try domination, but having problems saving makes this rather difficult (since I reload a lot). So I'm just going to go for cultural again.

eh...So stop play this AP until I fixed these nasty bugs and reupload the beta test:mad:

I have just uploaded beta release v2.4b2, made the following changes:

0.268:fix: fixed random hero save error
when accumulated enough combat experience, when player cannot recruit any non-random hero, the 'pick a hero' screen will no longer pop up, instead, a random hero is automated created.
rule change: random hero will appear on the very plot where the player's current selected unit is in

A quick note if anyone encounters an error message, take a screenshot. If you happen to have a save just prior to the error, that's even more awesome!

Thanks for the quick update. Is it going to break save game?
Also, is it intended for diplomacy to be just all around cautious? I have pluses and minuses but they're all cautious. Even Liu Biao isn't declaring war on me at the first instance.

I don't think it will break save game as long as there are no random heroes in the game.

As for attitude, I think you've caught a bug again.:blush:

I have just uploaded Beta Release v2.4b3 to the same download address as in the first post, made the following change:

0.269:fix: fixed bug that all AI's attitude is always cautious

It's save game compatible.

Do I have to turn on "view python exceptions" or whatever that option is? or do I just get the error messages when in normal play since it's a debug DLL? Just wondering... downloading now!


EDIT: Also I've got the same Assert Failed message that AP has... latest version

Didn't take a screenshot but here it is:

File: CyGlobalContext.cpp
Line: 70
Expression: idx>=0
Message:

EDIT2:

Is it a bug that you can't promote your random heroes? My promotions just get chosen for me whenever I get enough experience to level up. On the other hand, it's actually a fun bug, since you never know what exactly you're going to get.

EDIT3: Yikes! I just realized that ALL my heroes were auto-promoting! This is not good... not good at all...

I thought autopromote was a change made for the minor heroes, and I made sure that autopromote was turned off in the options. But military units didn't autopromote, just the new promotions introduced in this mod. So it must be a bug.

Whew, glad to see it wasn't a freak bug just affecting my game! As for feedback on the Dynamic Initial Units, it's great! Emperor leaves me with a handful of troops ~2 Danyang Armies, 2 catapults and 1 Swift Rider making it a proper challenge to conquer all of Liu Yao's territory withough losing momentum.

Another thing I really like about this beta is the AI's new hero promotion selection. Now it's actually worrying me when I have to go up against an enemy hero!

It's interesting, last game (the first beta) gave me just 1 danyang, 2 riders and 3 catapults. So basically about the same (danyang attack much better than riders).

Yeah, I put random promotion choice there to block a cheat invented by some Chinese player:) They just won't promote their hero until needed to avoid any increase in hero maintenance. I hate to say but we Chinese are master cheaters.

I thought I did it so you have one turn's time to promote your hero. After that the game will promote him. Looks like something is wrong and the game promote your hero right after he can level up?

Ah, that makes sense... I usually promote my heroes right away though so no need to worry about us amateur cheaters :lol:

Yeah, the game promotes the hero instantly, the same turn you acquire the xp.

I have uploaded a new version V2.4b4 to the same downloading address, it won't break savegame, just fixed the hero auto promotion bug. Now you have one turn's time to promote your hero until he auto promotes himself. Tell me what you think about it.


EDIT: Also I've got the same Assert Failed message that AP has... latest version

Didn't take a screenshot but here it is:

File: CyGlobalContext.cpp
Line: 70
Expression: idx>=0
Message:


Just saw this, is there anything strange after this? I haven't seen this on my XP computer. Also when did this occur, map initializing? during game?

The Assert Failed message appeared after I attacked a city with my Sun Ce legion. It popped up about 4 or 5 times before it went away. I didn't notice any in-game effect though. I have Vista running if that helps.

About champion:

With the introduction of random heroes champions are removed, I'm sure it's not so good in the beta release. So I'm doing something right now to substitute the missing champion function with other stuffs:

1. I introduced a new variable to certain technologies. When player get that technology, and whenever his unit upgrades, the unit will retain 25 more experience. Right now I have given this ability to 4 techs.
2. A new promotion: logistics, or some name like that, is a core troop promotion, has the same effect with the old medic 3 promotion
3. A new promotion: veterans, or some name like that, is a whole legion promotion, works like this: legion unit will enjoy certain amount of bonus XP according to the time the unit is in the legion. (say, in standard speed, 10 turns grant 10% XP bonus, 100 turns grant 100% XP bonus, that's the maximum).

So what do you think about this whole champion thing? Any suggestions how we might take advantage of this pretty big game play change?

I like the promotion ideas! the big thing about champions were the unique promotions (mainly leadership), so if they get reimplemented in some way or another, it would be awesome!

I have uploaded Beta V2.4b5 to the same address as th first post, fixing the following problem:

All unit will not be able to upgrade after reloading.

It's save game compatible. The next beta release, if it has to be one, will break save game, I hope that won't happen :)

I still seem to have the hero autoupgrading problem... I'm using the latest beta. I took the file and did a fresh install over V2.3 if that helps.

Tried to start a 196 small map, this came up:
Assert Failed

File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 3594
Expression: strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: info type CIVILIZATION_NAN_MAN not found, Current XML file is: xml\Sanguo/CIV4CityPerkInfos.xml

Then selected Nan Man, and this came up:
Assert Failed

File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 3594
Expression: strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: info type CIVILIZATION_NAN_MAN not found, Current XML file is: xml\Sanguo/CIV4CityPerkInfos.xml

and

File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 1175
Expression: eCivilizationNum > -1
Message:

and I was defeated.

Yes the autopromote seems to be still on (but not for regular promotions).
Damn, can't build the Terracotta Army with Sun Ce.

Tried to start a 196 small map, this came up:
Assert Failed

File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 3594
Expression: strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: info type CIVILIZATION_NAN_MAN not found, Current XML file is: xml\Sanguo/CIV4CityPerkInfos.xml

Then selected Nan Man, and this came up:
Assert Failed

File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 3594
Expression: strcmp(szType, "NONE")==0 || strcmp(szType, "")==0
Message: info type CIVILIZATION_NAN_MAN not found, Current XML file is: xml\Sanguo/CIV4CityPerkInfos.xml

and

File: CvGlobals.cpp
Line: 1175
Expression: eCivilizationNum > -1
Message:

and I was defeated.

I should emphasize again the old maps do not work, the only map that works is the 194 one. The updated old maps will work, but they are not released.

Yes the autopromote seems to be still on (but not for regular promotions).
Damn, can't build the Terracotta Army with Sun Ce.

I'll check the autopromotion problem, what does that mean with Terracotta Army?

That means that I was unable to build the Terracotta Army because my stone isn't hooked up. It's not a bug, but just purely an observation (before I could always build it because Mo Ling has stone and a worker). Just for fairness you should probably let all stone be unquarried.

I'm still getting the all around cautious diplo. Started as Yuan Shao, and Gongsun Zan is cautious (not furious) even though we're at war already (a little early for that historically?).

that's strange, in my local version the hero autopromotion problem is gone for good. Try this attached DLL. Before trying you could check the modification date of both DLLs to see if they are one version. If they are one version, they should really behave the same way. Unless it's vista...

Now I suspect all these beta versions didn't include the updated DLL? weird.

When I select a lot of units there seems to be a freeze until I clear the assert error:

File: CyGlobalContext.cpp
Line: 70
Expression: idx>=0
Message:

You really should nerf Yuan Shao a little bit. Even playing in Deity he's impossibly strong, compared to Cao Cao. (He's probably the one that always builds the Terracotta Army in 5-6 moves without stone. 6 workers to start with?!).

AP, have you tried the new DLL?

Currently only Sun Ce is controlled by dynamic initial unit, so Yuan Shao will be nerfed in the final release I'm sure, especially if you choose deity.

I tried the new DLL, and now all the promotion stuff is working normally! I have to ask though, did you give some heroes starting promotions in Worldbuilder that they normally won't get? (like Guan Yu having Indomitable and some others starting with 2 extra promos)

xxhe made the scenarios, so he may did that. Guan Yu is a special case, because he has nine transformation, so if it shows he has indomitable, it means he has selected indomitable as his current nine transformation promotion.

hmm, this nine transformation thing is looking more and more interesting... just out of curiosity, is Guan Yu the only one who has it? Or do a few other famous heroes get it too?

Cao Cao has it too. That's it for next release. However, random heroes may get it too, at a 0.1% chance. :D

:drool:
this next release is gonna be great!

Now for more info on the playtesting:

The Assert Failed message that I was getting previously

File: CyGlobalContext.cpp
Line: 70
Expression: idx>=0
Message:

seems to happen when I group units in a stack that have a mix of legion and non-legion units, then try to select individual units. I was also holding Alt to view combat odds with each at the time. Hope that helps if you didn't already get that bug.

:drool:
this next release is gonna be great!

Now for more info on the playtesting:

The Assert Failed message that I was getting previously

File: CyGlobalContext.cpp
Line: 70
Expression: idx>=0
Message:

seems to happen when I group units in a stack that have a mix of legion and non-legion units, then try to select individual units. I was also holding Alt to view combat odds with each at the time. Hope that helps if you didn't already get that bug.

Oh is that it? I thought it was just me selecting a lot of units to get that error (see above). I wasn't using alt either.

(Are we 2 the only English-speaking beta testers?)

On another note, can you decrease the damage in jungles to be 5% and marshes 10%, and maybe only in enemy territory? This makes it a little bit more reasonable (I'm trying a game as Liu Yao and getting my units to the frontline damages them too much via the shortest route)

The Alt thing probably doesn't have to do with the bug, I think it's the mix of legion and non-legion. I only had a stack of 5 so I don't think that counts as large.

It would be nice if the Southern and Chuan Soldier promotion protected from Jungle damage, after all they do have immunities to the jungle diseases.
On another note, I really like the buffs the Legion promotions recieved. Xu Huang is now worthy of his reputation. Resilient I-IV is great for cracking hill cities. (Don't even think of nerfing resilient stmartin! The defence line counters it easily!) Also, I've been finding myself promoting down the defence line frequently to counter the heroes that promote heavily down the Attack line. The AI promotion selection is a vast improvement!

I do think we're the only beta testers pretty much (english speaking), unless we have a lurker... hopefully this forum will get more activily with the 2.4 release. It's really out of the way at the moment (bottom of the list pretty much), but the mod easily ranks with FfH and RFC. I bet the mod has hordes of Chinese fans though.

Hmm, how long should it take for a new sig to appear? I just added a wonderful little HoTK promotion :D

Waiting for other civilizations hang (Liu Yao monarch game).

What promotion? I didn't see it.:)

I tried to select a mixed army, moving them around, group attack city, no error pop up? Must be Vista or is a bug somehow fixed. I'll let a teammate check that tomorrow.

I suppose southern solder and chuan soldier promotion already protect against swamp damage? Jungle doesn't damage unit right?

As for the popularity of this mod, I have a little something to say:

Release 2.3 English Version has 789 completed download until this moment. That's about 26 per day. Back in January and February I used to take notes on the download click from CFC data base(not completed, just click count) of well-known mods every day for about a month. FfH is the most popular, more than 200 download per day. RoM is the second, about 60-70 download per day. RFC is the third, about 40 download per day. HoTK is about the 4th or 5th one, around 30 download click per day. All the rest don't receive enough attention, each about 10 or less per day. I didn't take notes on BUG Mod, but BUG is very popular too, probably rivals RoM.

That's back in Release 1, before legion system. The strange point is, although we have introduced Legion system, the assumed selling point of the Mod, our downloading situation remains about the same.

Then I just felt like doing something else, so HoTK development pauses for a few months. In this period Civ4 get older, something new great mods come out like Mars, LoR and Dune War. Some of them are slightly more popular than HoTK in terms of downloading count. Now a month ago we release 2.3, slightly improved version, and our downloading count is still the same, slightly better in terms of unique visitors to our downloading page in Google Code.

Because of the stagnancy of popularity, I assume that quality of the Mod is not a major problem. It's the theme, the background, or accessibility. Not very many people bother to check out a Mod about ancient China if they are not interested in Chinese History in the first place. Even if they play it, but are not familiar with background, do not know the Chinese names and the heroes, they will not get the same good experience as other players. This means if we want more people to play this Mod, first we need to let them know this mod, check out this mod, and if possible, try to help players familiar themselves with the background story of HoTK.

I have some plan for that purpose. During the development of Release 2.4, we have spent many hours trying to improve the performance of the Mod. The result is great, I can safely say HoTK's speed is doubled. Some of the changes we made also apply to original BTS. So I pull those code from HoTK and made a standalone Mod, called Civ AcceleratoR, CAR Mod. I have already release that in China. In my experiment case, which is AD1000, China, Emperor, first 90 turns, the speed increase is about 15%. So when we release 2.4, we release CAR Mod at the same time. This will help more people to know the name of HoTK.

As for accessibility, we really haven't done much. Renaming unit is just a small effort. We will need to put some history, novel content, better hero biography, and some maps into civilopedia. Of course, strategy guides too. I don't think many of these will happen in Release 2.4, but I'll try.

Another thing is although HoTK seems to get some download, not very many players want to visit forums and post their ideas. That can only be my fault.:D I guess my disappearance several months ago plays a major part, as well as I'm not a very talkative or 'community' person. Also I'm Chinese, which is big. Well, well, so many things, so little time.:lol:

From the above you can tell I really care about HoTK's success. I love it. You guys support means big things to us, especially to me.

Do you guys have some suggestions about this popularity stuff? I'm not very much of a market guy, I can just make things.:D

Believe me, part of the interest in RFC is the problem-solving part with UHVs. People will post strategies and ask questions once there is something to work towards other than cultural or domination victory. (just ask blizzrd, kbk and youtien over at RFC)
I know it's hard with all the different maps, but at least you can start with the small map which is relatively easier to code for areas to control and resources, etc.

Another little Assert Failed:

File: CvUnitAI.cpp
Line: 12740
Expression: !atPlot(pBestPlot)
Message:


As for the popularity part of the mod, I think it's just that people very rarely seach for Chinese history mods. Fantasy is totally different, and FfH is the obvious choice for people who search for fantasy mods. Also lots of people want CIV to be more realistic on an Earth map, and they become RFC fans.

Personally, I don't think lack of knowledge in Chinese history is a barrier to the success of the mod. I downloaded it knowing nothing about the era, read up on everything in the Pedia, was then inspired to buy both books, read them in a week and then go and buy Koei's RoTK 12. Now I'm a big fan of the time period as you probably figured. People on these forums tend to love history more or less, and this mod is wonderful source of information and fun. Some people actually prefer more obscure time periods (to them) for the added pleasure.
What this mod needs is simply more publicity. We just need to get people to try downloading something new. That's why I did add a sig with a link to the download and features thread (but it isn't showing up :mad:)
Once the sig shows up, I'll probably venture out back into the main CIV forums, help out some beginners and recommend the mod a bit. Especially on those 'which mod should I play' threads that pop up every week or so...


EDIT: Another Assert Failed. Happened after I loaded a Worldbuilder save to check out Yan Baihu's random hero that started with Conqueror, Iron Wall, and Persuasive!

File: CvUnit.cpp
Line: 15053
Expression: pUnit->GetHeroType() !=NO_HERO
Message:


EDIT2: I figured out the second Assert Failed. Random Heroes don't carry over with WB saves. Oh well, guess I can't check out that totally awesome hero Yan Baihu has.

EDIT3: Well, I just tried a Lu Bu game for fun, just to see what his position was like on the map, and Xiahou Yuan surrendered to me. That was shocking to say the least. So I tried it again. Every single time I defeat him, he surrenders. However, he doesn't surrender to any other faction.

EDIT4: Another Assert Failed

File: CvUnitAI.cpp
Line: 12817
Expression: !atPlot(pBestPlot)
Message:

no clues on that one, just playing along as usual

Believe me, part of the interest in RFC is the problem-solving part with UHVs. People will post strategies and ask questions once there is something to work towards other than cultural or domination victory. (just ask blizzrd, kbk and youtien over at RFC)
I know it's hard with all the different maps, but at least you can start with the small map which is relatively easier to code for areas to control and resources, etc.

I've been thinking about this all along, AP. I think a better way to do UHV in HoTK is to attach them to leaders, not factions. Also, a leader's UHV will vary according to the scenario's starting year. This is just a brief thought.

As to why I haven't done anything like that yet, is I believe rounding up legion system is the top priority. Also, one of the big lack of HoTK is player testing (by me). So After releasing 2.4, the next step in development is to play though each faction, trying to improve the playability of each faction, including adjusting UU, UB, UP, in this process, I will try UHV, in fact, UHV can be a focal point to each faction's playability. Hope you understand AP, and be patient.


As for the popularity part of the mod, I think it's just that people very rarely seach for Chinese history mods. Fantasy is totally different, and FfH is the obvious choice for people who search for fantasy mods. Also lots of people want CIV to be more realistic on an Earth map, and they become RFC fans.

Personally, I don't think lack of knowledge in Chinese history is a barrier to the success of the mod. I downloaded it knowing nothing about the era, read up on everything in the Pedia, was then inspired to buy both books, read them in a week and then go and buy Koei's RoTK 12. Now I'm a big fan of the time period as you probably figured. People on these forums tend to love history more or less, and this mod is wonderful source of information and fun. Some people actually prefer more obscure time periods (to them) for the added pleasure.
What this mod needs is simply more publicity. We just need to get people to try downloading something new. That's why I did add a sig with a link to the download and features thread (but it isn't showing up :mad:)
Once the sig shows up, I'll probably venture out back into the main CIV forums, help out some beginners and recommend the mod a bit. Especially on those 'which mod should I play' threads that pop up every week or so...

It's great news.:) I appreciate what you've done to help HOTK, kenjister.

I'll check those error messages and Xiahou Yuan's surrender case. Also, why would you check that random hero using WB? As far as I remember, WB don't show a hero's potential combat level too. A random hero's potential promotions are only determined upon each level up too, so there's essentially no way to know these things, unless you enable cheat, open python console, and find that out using python.:cool:

Waiting for other civilizations hang (Liu Yao monarch game).

I loaded this save with the latest beta release, then immediately hit end turn button, the game runs well, the AI's turn ends normally and returns control to me. Wondering what's the problem.:rolleyes:

@kenjister

I've discovered the cause of Xiahou Yuan surrendering case: Cao Cao don't have a capital city!!! Use WB to give Xu Chang a palace and everything should return to normal.:lol:

As for the other two !atPlot(pBestPlot) message, they are really really weird bug, fixing those is likely to be a PITA. It will requires a save game to debug the AI. Luckily it won't affect game play in any apparent manner, so I would take of those later.

Ah, that's great new on the hero surrendering case! I was wondering where his capital was too, I didn't know where to attack first! :lol:

I'm glad to see though that all the big bugs seem to be ironed out! Hopefully this release gets more publicity... maybe it'll get a nice spot in the Creation and Customization update on the main page this month (if we're lucky!)

I loaded this save with the latest beta release, then immediately hit end turn button, the game runs well, the AI's turn ends normally and returns control to me. Wondering what's the problem.:rolleyes:


It's not that turn, wait till the next turn when I'm about to build the Music Bureau (that's when I can't save).

It's not that turn, wait till the next turn when I'm about to build the Music Bureau (that's when I can't save).

I tried again, still works fine, I guess it's because I didn't replicate exactly what you did in the very turn before the bug occurs. Can you post your save game just right before you hit the end turn button before the bug happens? You mean you can't save your game right then?

Try this (all I did was to move some troops closer to the 4-unit Sun Ce stack on my iron).
Yes, I'm using vista 64bit.