I was just wondering who everybody's favorite leader was (without Unrestricted Leaderheads). Obviously some changes have been made to some of the leaders and civilizations in this mod, which may make your favorite in the original game not the same as your favorite in the mod.

My favorite was Meiji, since I really liked the Enlightened + Financial combination. Although Enlightened was still very powerful at 10%, I decided to try another leader after it was brought down from 15%. I used Mansa Musa as kind of a "transition" leader while I was deciding who to move onto (who is unchanged from the original game, and was one of my favorites then, too).

I've now moved onto using Mehmed II. Now that he has gained Financial (in place of Organized), I really like him as a leader given I see Financial as a must. Expansive, too, was buffed, allowing settlers, scouts, and carriers to move faster, as well as increasing the speed of worker building times. Plus Janissaries were indirectly buffed due to the life time of the musketman being greatly extended in this mod. This means if you, as the Ottomans, have a military tech lead around this time, you can crush near about anybody. Also, I would consider the Hammam to be one of the better unique buildings. I always build Aqueducts anyway, so the +2 happiness sure doesn't hurt. And on a smaller note, the Ottomans start with the two most expensive starting technologies, giving them a tiny early lead.

Who is your favorite leader?

In LoR, I really must say, that I do like organized leaders, they're much better in handling revolutionaries. While their tech rate might not be so strong they really save time and money for not constantly battling rebells. I think Frederic and Julius Caesar are among them.

In LoR, I really must say, that I do like organized leaders, they're much better in handling revolutionaries. While their tech rate might not be so strong they really save time and money for not constantly battling rebells. I think Frederic and Julius Caesar are among them.

Yeah, that's a good point - I hadn't thought of that; although I also tend to play with revolutions off. Would you recommend I try playing with them on? I just kind of felt like it got in the way the first time I tried, and made the game a bit too different than I'd like (not to mention it isn't supported on multiplayer and I hear complaints about how the AI cannot handle the revolutions).

Yeah, that's a good point - I hadn't thought of that; although I also tend to play with revolutions off. Would you recommend I try playing with them on? I just kind of felt like it got in the way the first time I tried, and made the game a bit too different than I'd like (not to mention it isn't supported on multiplayer and I hear complaints about how the AI cannot handle the revolutions).

Definitely you should try revolutions on sometime. The multiplayer is a issue and so is the AI's inability to cope with it. Hopefully either the Rev team or Phungus will soon make it to where the revolution indexes will scale with difficulty. But if you play on nobel that shouldnt matter either way since human and AI will be on equal footing regardless.

Definitely you should try revolutions on sometime. The multiplayer is a issue and so is the AI's inability to cope with it. Hopefully either the Rev team or Phungus will soon make it to where the revolution indexes will scale with difficulty. But if you play on nobel that shouldnt matter either way since human and AI will be on equal footing regardless.

Yeah, it would be worth a second shot. The first time it was just so weird and different that I screwed up pretty badly my first time around, though it was partly due to bad luck. I lost control of my kingdom shortly before somebody declared war on me, and the AI didn't really defend itself all that well in my stead. I have nothing else to do today, really, so I may as well try it and kill some time.

And yeah, I play on Noble.

Go for revolutions! It's just great to have problems maintaining a big empire. Normally in CIV, large empires have a the big advantages, also in BTW. The research penalties are compensated by the huge unit stacks you can build. By having so many cities you just can subdue the more tech progressive civs. But in LoR with revs enabled if your cities become too many (and with too many cultures and religions), you really have a hard time to keep that big empire. So it's a lot more challenging even in the end game. Domination victory is much harder now. For example, in my recent game I had all the tech lead on my side, many vasalls, the biggest marine and army, a very good economy, but still all my colonies asked constantly for independence. I had to bribe them over and over again or fight the revolutionaries. That was difficult but much more realistic than normal CIV and also more fun since victory wasn't just a easy and boring walk.

P.S: Normally I play on Monarch but Emperor is also nice, though really hard.

Once you get electricity and build broadcast towers do your colonies still rebel if you're running free religion (or established religious dominance in your colonies)? The city distance should really drop alot with brodcast towers, and airports should make it almost non existent (and since colonies use city distance as a mulitplier in calculating their penalty this should make colonial rebellion no worse on then homeland). In the early industrial though LoR at least for now tries to simulate the age of rebellion 1773-1914.

Revolutions is great, but dont expect a domination win pre 1AD.

You can't just focus purely on military and take a huge empire, you will soon start losing it or colapse from within.
You need to consolidate and expand more slowly or win a good plan.

Also even if you go on a raze and pillage attack then new civ's will start popping up in the black holes that you have left behind. I was using about 8 fog busters to keep barbs off in my last standard pangea game, and they still kept popping up somewhere.

By the way Phungus, Pyramids are even more powerful now. Switching to representation is immensely powerful in improving empire stability, even if you dont run a pure SE. I have a massive empire in my Emperor game now, all due to the benefits from the pyramids.


Sorry, to answer your question: I still think Darius is a mean leader, and now has two UU's. Fin & org allow for a massive empire (with pyramids) something that other civ's just cant maintain and keep under control.
How many of the civ's have two UU's now? I think it definately gives an advantage.

How many of the civ's have two UU's now? I think it definately gives an advantage.

Germany has 3 UUs

England, France, Spain, China, Japan, Russia, and America have 2

Korea will have a 2nd UU eventually.

@phungus
I guess what you are describing happens that way, I was just 'unfortunately' enough to gain victory the moment I built the Eiffel tower. So I couldn't really experience the results of broadcasting. What I wanted to stress: I really appreciate your mod, it's definitely a major step onwards in CIV. The gameplay has improved much and the looks are just great (even though my grafic card can hardly it). Thank you very much for your work!

Germany has 3 UUs

England, France, Spain, China, Japan, Russia, and America have 2

Korea will have a 2nd UU eventually.

The Khmer Empire and the Vikings have two, as well.

Wolfshanze seemed to have been making second unique units for the Egyptians called Horus Cult Warriors, but never got around to finishing it before he vanished. He was also making a Yamato Battle Ship for the Japanese and an Arabic Assassin unit, but neither of those were added, either (these are all still found in the XML files).

The Khmer Empire and the Vikings have two, as well.

Oh yeah forgot about those two. I even made longboat and remade the phak'ak as well as it being my idea originally, and I still forgot about 'em.:crazyeye:


Wolfshanze seemed to have been making second unique units for the Egyptians called Horus Cult Warriors, but never got around to finishing it before he vanished. He was also making a Yamato Battle Ship for the Japanese and an Arabic Assassin unit, but neither of those were added, either (these are all still found in the XML files).

Which files the unitinfos or ArtDefines? And how old, WolfRev or 0.96 LoR? Most likely if those are ArtDefines names, they werent going to be UU's. There are several (actually alot) of entries that have specific names like that. Most notably every Battleship entry, and most industrial-modern ships. And a few melee units have names as well.

Although I dont recall ever seeing the Horus cult one. I know exactly which model it would be, but I never paid attention to its art define. Come to think of it I have been missing a 2nd UU for Egypt in my mini-add on. I think that will be it.

Which files the unitinfos or ArtDefines? And how old, WolfRev or 0.96 LoR? Most likely if those are ArtDefines names, they werent going to be UU's. There are several (actually alot) of entries that have specific names like that. Most notably every Battleship entry, and most industrial-modern ships. And a few melee units have names as well.

Although I dont recall ever seeing the Horus cult one. I know exactly which model it would be, but I never paid attention to its art define. Come to think of it I have been missing a 2nd UU for Egypt in my mini-add on. I think that will be it.

Oh, sorry. I mean in the Civilopedia. Like there are Civilopedia entries written for these units - so they were intended for actual units (I imagine). I don't know what version they come from exactly - I just assumed Wolfshanze had intended to include them in his next version.

<Tag>TXT_KEY_UNIT_HORUS_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>. .. .. .. .. .Horus is one of the most ancient deities of the Ancient Egyptian religion, who appears in his earliest form in late Predynastic Egypt. Represented as a falcon, and his earliest connections are to the sky and kingship, derived from being the son of Hathor, as a sun god. Because the cult of Horus survived for the whole of the Ancient Egyptian civilization that extended for ten thousand years, he gained many forms and associations.[PARAGRAPH:2]Horus was usually represented as a man with a falcon's head. One important association is the Eye of Horus which was an Egyptian symbol of power and of the offerings made to the god Osiris and by extension, to all of the dead. In one myth cycle Horus' left eye is injured during his struggle with his uncle Set, who had murdered Osiris in an attempt to seize the Egyptian throne. The Eye of Horus, its injury, and subsequent restoration became an important symbol for the unified land of Egypt and in the funerary rites of the renewal after death.[PARAGRAPH:2]Horus Cult Warriors emerged from the higher levels of Egyptian society whose members include those with religous devotion, iron resolve and battle fervor. Seeking to honor Horus through battle, the cult warriors will gouge the left eye of fallen enemies in sacrifice to thier god.</English>

<Tag>TXT_KEY_UNIT_ARABIAN_ASSASSIN_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>. .. .. .. .. .The Assassins were a religious sect of Ismaili Shia Muslims from the Nizari sub-sect originating from post-Islamic Persia. They had a militant basis which was employed in various political or religious purposes. They are thought to have been active from 1090 to 1272. This mystic secret society was known to specialize in terrorizing the Crusaders with fearlessly executed, politically motivated assassinations. However, unlike the popular belief, their efforts were not primarily directed at Crusaders but against Muslim rulers whom they saw as impious usurpers. The word "assassin" is derived from this name. Their own name for the sect was al-da wa al-jadida which means "the new doctrine". They called themselves fedayeen, which means one who is ready to sacrifice their life for a cause.</English>

<Tag>TXT_KEY_UNIT_YAMATO_PEDIA</Tag>
<English>. .. .. .. .. .Yamato, lead ship of a class of two 65,000 ton (over 72,800 tons at full load) battleships, was built at Kure, Japan. She and her sister, Musashi were by far the largest battleships ever built, even exceeding in size and gun caliber (though not in weight of broadside) the U.S. Navy's abortive Montana class. Their nine 460mm (18.1 inch) main battery guns, which fired 1460kg (3200 pound) armor piercing shells, were the largest battleship guns ever to go to sea, and the two ships' scale of armor protection was also unsurpassed.[PARAGRAPH:2]Commissioned in December 1941, just over a week after the start of the Pacific war, Yamato served as flagship of Combined Fleet commander Isoroku Yamamoto during the critical battles of 1942. During the following year, she spent most of her time at Truk, as part of a mobile naval force defending Japan's Centeral Pacific bases. Torpedoed by USS Skate (SS305) in December 1943, Yamato was under repair until April 1944, during which time her anti aircraft battery was considerably increased. She then took part in the Battle of the Philippine Sea in June and the Battle of Leyte Gulf in October. During the latter action, she was attacked several times by U.S. Navy aircraft, and fired her big guns in an engagement with U.S. escort carriers and destroyers off the island of Samar.[PARAGRAPH:2]Yamato received comparatively light damage during the Leyte Gulf battle, and was sent home in November 1944. Fitted with additional anti aircraft machine guns, she was based in Japan during the winter of 1944 to 1945. Attacked by U.S. Navy carrier planes in March 1945, during raids on the Japanese home islands, she was again only lightly damaged. The following month, she was assigned to take part in the suicidal "Ten Go" Operation, a combined air and sea effort to destroy American naval forces supporting the invasion of Okinawa. On 7 April 1945, while still some 200 miles north of Okinawa, Yamato was attacked by a massive force of U.S. carrier planes and sunk.[PARAGRAPH:2]After the war, the great battleship became an object of intense fascination in Japan, as well as in foreign countries. Yamato's remains were located and examined in 1985 and again examined, more precisely, in 1999. She lies in two main parts in some 1000 feet of water. Her bow portion, severed from the rest of the ship in the vicinity of the second main battery turret, is upright. The midships and stern section is upside down nearby, with a large hole in the lower starboard side close to the after magazines.</English>

There's also an HMS Hood, which I'm not as familiar with.

:Edit: Oh, I forgot, there's also a "Babylonian Guard", "Chinese Broadswordsman", and "American Apache".

Oh, sorry. I mean in the Civilopedia. Like there are Civilopedia entries written for these units - so they were intended for actual units (I imagine). I don't know what version they come from exactly - I just assumed Wolfshanze had intended to include them in his next version.

There's also an HMS Hood, which I'm not as familiar with.

:Edit: Oh, I forgot, there's also a "Babylonian Guard", "Chinese Broadswordsman", and "American Apache".

Hmm, thats cool. The babylonian guard is a nother one that Im going to steal. But I rather dont like the idea of the yamato or hms hood UU's. They were specific ships, and not good enough to be wonders either. He shouldve gone with whatever battleship class/series they belonged to. Like instead of the USS Missouri, have the Iowa class battleship. I guess thats all moot since wolfshanze mod is dead.

I think the American Apache though is from phungus. He originall had it as an American UU before the minuteman and Jeep. Not sure why he scrapped it, or for that matter the navy seal.

Hmm, thats cool. The babylonian guard is a nother one that Im going to steal. But I rather dont like the idea of the yamato or hms hood UU's. They were specific ships, and not good enough to be wonders either. He shouldve gone with whatever battleship class/series they belonged to. Like instead of the USS Missouri, have the Iowa class battleship. I guess thats all moot since wolfshanze mod is dead.

I think the American Apache though is from phungus. He originall had it as an American UU before the minuteman and Jeep. Not sure why he scrapped it, or for that matter the navy seal.

Yeah. I don't know what his plan was with those ships. He had the Bismarck, too, actually. I guess that was also intended to be a unique unit? I don't know. There was also some "Werhmact" unique unit, but that might have been a description for one of the other German units, I'm not sure. If not, the Germans would have had six unique units in the next version of Wolfshanze (because I think Fallschrimjager might have been a bit beefed up compared to a normal Paratrooper in his mod, though I could be wrong about that)... and that... would have been a bit excessive, heh. I don't mind the idea of every civilization having two unique units (preferably one early, one late), but having like six all around the same time frame just seems unnecessary.

There was also some "Werhmact" unique unit, but that might have been a description for one of the other German units, I'm not sure. If not, the Germans would have had six unique units in the next version of Wolfshanze (because I think Fallschrimjager might have been a bit beefed up compared to a normal Paratrooper in his mod, though I could be wrong about that)... and that... would have been a bit excessive, heh.

Yeah, Wolf seemed to love germany.

EDIT: Im unpdating the chinese art at the moment, and I just ran across the chinese broadswordsman artdefine. Weve been using it as just the regular chinese maceman.

Easily Attark (sp?) of the Ottomans. I've found playing in both LoR and RoM that the Ottaman's are really a powerhouse when playing w/Revolutions.

Attark's traits work well in conjunction with the Hamman whose +2 happiness/health really make keeping your empire together a lot easier. So while many of your enemies have their empires fall into squabbling parts, your Ottoman empire gets bigger and a great tech lead.

Then comes the Janissaries which are just plain mean. In my games, I tend to have a tech advantage and against many other Civs a huge one. So when I start cranking out the Jannissaries, it's easy to crush my foes. Since my happy/health and Attark's skills, my culture is such that my captured cities are pretty happy to be conquered.

I must say though, favorite leader or not, I think the thing that makes playing one Civ over the other is simply UU or at least unique graphics for them. Which is why it's nice to play the Germans, Russian, English or Americans as they have the most number of units that look like they should. Once LoR is 'finished' I'd say that continuing to try to get every Civ as close to what the look of the units should be is a worthy goal.

BTW, since the Vikings look to morph into the Swedes later in the game, shouldn't they have a UU of 'faster' canon? Gustavus Adolphus (a leader for the Vikings is needed as well) was renown for his light, mobile cannons so perhaps the Vikings should get a bombard or cannon that has a slightly better movement or at least a much better chance to retreat.

Hiawata [Exp / Org] Is a fair combination that scales good with difficulty. I'm really enjoing it and the Iroquois.


Mehemed II [Exp / Fin] since I'm pretty much a Fin addict. Also Ottomans have a great UU and UB, possibly the best combination on most maps.


I feel Darius [Fin / Org] to be owerpowered and thus never use it - I'm already a technocrath without that much "unfair" help.



My favourite leader is Willhelm above all, since he is Fin [eh...] and Cult, so I don't have to mind too much about religions, obelisks, monasteryes and other minor nuisances such as non-warmongering stuff. Also, once you have steampower almost all your cities become production powerhouses. So plain simple: he's very easy to play..

Once LoR is 'finished' I'd say that continuing to try to get every Civ as close to what the look of the units should be is a worthy goal.

Well that is the goal. Every version I add a few new units, and change out crappy looking ones for better ones. Just finished updating the Chinese and a few Romans. Right now I am adding new ethic motor infantry, armored scouts, and several other machine type unit graphics.

But I am not sure why we keep getting complaints about the ethnic diversity. LoR has around as many ethnic models per civ as a Veritas Delictat. LoR actually has 15% more, but we have the benefit of 3 extra civs, and more UUs, so it all balances out.


BTW, since the Vikings look to morph into the Swedes later in the game, shouldn't they have a UU of 'faster' canon? Gustavus Adolphus (a leader for the Vikings is needed as well) was renown for his light, mobile cannons so perhaps the Vikings should get a bombard or cannon that has a slightly better movement or at least a much better chance to retreat.

Thats a good thought. You should bring that up in the LeaderHead Suggestion thread, with link to the actual LH, and to a Wiki article on Gustavas.

Thats a good thought. You should bring that up in the LeaderHead Suggestion thread, with link to the actual LH, and to a Wiki article on Gustavas.

Yeah. If they do that, though, they might have to rename the "Viking Empire" nation (which wasn't a nation anyway) to Sweden. Sweden can be used for both Gustavus and Ragnar, whereas "Viking" can be used only for Ragnar. "Scandinavia" is also an option, but considering that's more of a region than a country, Sweden is probably the better bet.

Yeah. If they do that, though, they might have to rename the "Viking Empire" nation (which wasn't a nation anyway) to Sweden. Sweden can be used for both Gustavus and Ragnar, whereas "Viking" can be used only for Ragnar. "Scandinavia" is also an option, but considering that's more of a region than a country, Sweden is probably the better bet.

I know alot of mods have replaced the vikings with Sweden. But that always seemed unfair to the vikings. Were playing civilizations, not present day nations, or just one incarnation of a particular empire. Celts were never really a nation either, but they have a very distinct culture that seperates them, besides geopolitical lines. Thats also one of the reasons wolf took out Holy Rome. It was a empire but it was more of a conglomeration of several civilizations.

I actually think your scandinavian idea would be better. Even though the scandinavian countries have differences, as a whole their ways could be described as a scandinavian civ.

There is no need to morph the Vikings into some modern nation idea, as they did plenty enough by themselves to warrant remaining a civ. Besides, there are plenty of possible candidates to serve as a second or third leader. Just off the top of my head there's Leif Erickson, for example, who discovered North America in centuries before Christopher Columbus. There's also Rurik, the first ruler of "Russia" of note in recorded history, who along with his Viking followers had a formative effect on Russian culture.

I AM addicted to the 0.9.5 Meiji: finnancial + +10% :science: Enlightened. It's simply the ultimate techwhore combination (something that fits me gloriously)!!

:scan::borg::bowdown::woohoo::clap::mwaha::satan: :science::science::science::science::science:

Lenin is awesome. Philosophical/Enlightened is a beastly SE combo.

Lenin is awesome. Philosophical/Enlightened is a beastly SE combo.

That is a awesome trait combo, unfortunately Lenin will be getting the boot in the next version to give a 1 leader civ a 2nd leader. That means we have to find someone else worthy of Enl/Philo.