The 3.0 Development Thread [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

deanej

Sep 26, 2009, 06:41 AM

I'm going to be gone until Tuesday/Wednesday, but before I leave, I'm posting the unique wonders/civ traits for work. Anything with a - next to it I'm fairly happy with, I'm putting it here so you can see what all of them are so there isn't duplication, etc. Anything with a * is pretty much "I don't like it but couldn't think of anything else" so it needs something.

Unique Wonders (see python wonders):
-Federation Headquarters (Federation): similar to Apolostic Palace
*Monastary of Kahless (Klingon): +5 happy all cities
-Tal Shiar Headquarters (Romulan): +100% espionage
*Palace of the Grand Nagus (Ferengi): increse reserves by 50%, 2% interest on reserve
-Obsidian Order (Cardassian): -75% war weariness
-The Great Link (Dominion): +1 spy, +1 scientist, +1 artist
-Unimatrix One (Borg): free advanced repair, all units
*Raiding Command Ceanter (Kazon): +100% gold from pillaging, enemies can't pillage
-Museum to the Hunt (Hirogen): Free Hunter every few turns (req tech) in city
-Cure for the Phage (Vidiian): +2 health all cities, grow by 2 pop
-Ancient City of Bahala (Bajor): Free golden age when built (former world wonder)
*Museum of Sovereignty (Breen): units killed in cities add culture
-Museum of Lost Civilizations (Krenim): +100% culture, +50% science
-Stealth Research Center (Devore): units built in city recieve free cloaking device promo
*Underspace Research Station (Vaadwaur): free flanking 2 for units built in city
-Center of Cultural Exchange (First Federation): 1 free tech when built
-Center of Exchange (Gorn): +1 trade all cities, +2 trade
-Webspinner Factroy (Tholian): units built in city get assimilator promo
-Military History Museum (Terran Empire): +5 GP points for Great General
-Military Database (Alliance): 20% change to train vassal's UU in city
*Xindi Council (Xindi): Can capture rival civ's UBs
-Resistance Headquarters (Maquis): city in resistance if not owned by Maquis
-Central Slave Marketplace (Orion): GP bonus when hurrying by population
*Helix (Suliban): 20% change for units to heal after combat victory
-Distant Orgin Theory (Voth): 10 turns anarchy, no future anarchy, +50% science, +15 culture
-Universe Portal (Species 8472): spread grav feature (combat penalty)

Civ Traits:
-Federation: better diplomatic standing
-Klingons: less experience to level up
-Romulans: free cloaking device all units
-Ferengi: treasury begins with 10x normal gold
-Cardassian: mining facility provide +2 production instead of +1, star systems -1 food
-Dominion: new units begin with +3xp
-Borg: units get assimilator promo (25% chance to capture defeated ship)
-Kazon: +1 food/production from trade routes (remember to update updatePlotYield!)
-Hirogen: Light ships get free city raider
-Vidiian: free medic1 all units
-Bajor: enemy units take damage every turn
-Breen: free sentry all units
-Krenim: free combat 1 all units
-Devore: +25% espionage
-Vaadwaur: none
-First Federation: 2 science all cities
-Gorn: all units free combat 2
-Tholian: Free drill 2 all units
-Terran: +50% great general
-Alliance: no resistance in captured cities
-Xindi: systems begin with 2 pop
-Maquis: free leadership all units
-Orion: +1 trade all cities
*Suliban: free ace all units
-Voth: +1 culture, +25% culture
-Species 8472: bonus on grav feature

TC01

Sep 26, 2009, 09:30 AM

I stand by my earlier idea that 8472 should have some mechanic to spread Biospace throughout their empire, thus giving them additional strength, defense, movement, etc, and weakening other ships in Biospace. I think that would be better as 8472's unique trait... or perhaps it should be the Universe Portal? Or perhaps the wonder should be something that when built causes Space to begin to turn into Biospace?

deanej

Sep 29, 2009, 10:16 PM

I can do something along the lines of having the Universe Portal randomly give plots a feature that hurts defense for everyone (except possibly 8472 if I can do that in XML, but I don't think I can) and gives a bonus for 8472 (via the trait; this would cancel out the penalty if I can't directly remove it and provide an additional bonus on the feature). I can then move the free combat 1 to either the Suliban, Tholians, or Devore (or Breen/Gorn if I changed it to combat 2).

Any ideas for other traits/wonders?

deanej

Oct 03, 2009, 10:01 PM

I've updated the lists on the previous post; basically I added the 8472 changes and the Gorn trait change and changed some traits from * to -. So now I basically need a new Suliban trait (as the listed one is quite weak) and some stuff for wonders (most of the ones marked for change function like traits that you build; I basically copied some of the python wonders and didn't consider that some of the effect is lost since a given civ is guaranteed to get it and other's can't); I'm not sure about the Vaadwaur one (too strong/weak?).

I should mention that the Vaadwaur will be getting a UU in 3.0 (this is why they have no trait; the starting Subspace Corridors tech functions like one).

Also: can units using quick attack be intercepted? If so, I need to make the Ace promotion available to exploration units.

apenpaap

Oct 04, 2009, 06:03 AM

AFAIK Quick Attack can't be intercepted. It would be interesting though if you can make it interceptible.

I also like the new changes you made to the traits list, but I think it would be cooler if every trait had a name, like in RFC. You know what, I'll do it myself:

-Federation: The power of Diplomacy
-Klingons: The power of Honour
-Romulans: The power of The cloak
-Ferengi: The power of Acquisition
-Cardassian: The power of The Union
-Dominion: The power of The Jem'Hadar
-Borg: The power of Assimilation
-Kazon: The power of Trade
-Hirogen: The power of the Hunt
-Vidiian: The power of the Phage (BTW, may I suggest having this power add 3 unhealth in all cities until Cure for the Phage is built? To balance this, Cure for the Phage could also give Advanced Repair to all units)
-Bajor: The power of Resistance
-Breen: The power of Paranoia
-Krenim: The power of Chroniton torpedoes
-Devore: The power of Inspection
-Vaadwaur: none
-First Federation: The power of Exploration
-Gorn: ???
-Tholian: The power of Webs
-Terran: The power of The Empire
-Alliance: The power of Tyranny
-Xindi: The power of The council
-Maquis: ???
-Orion: The power of Organized crime
*Suliban: ???
-Voth: The power of Ancientness (Is that a real word?)
-Species 8472: The power of Biospace

deanej

Oct 04, 2009, 04:27 PM

I think I can fill in the blanks:
-Gorn: not sure, but I realized that the Krenim and Gorn had the same net effect from their traits, so I changed the Gorn back to free nav 1 that they had when I first came up with them (the ship in TOS was really fast)
-Vaadwaur: might give a text-only power of Underspace trait
-Maquis: The power of resourcefulness
-Suliban: power of genetic engineering (changed to give free advanced repair)

If nobody has objections, we can figure out the wonders.

Also: gave the -3 health to Vidiian trait, cure for phage grants additional +3 to balance it out when built.

apenpaap

Oct 05, 2009, 04:03 AM

Something you may consider adding is the differentiated religions in my modmod. It gives each religion different benefits. I don't have the exact amounts here, but Exploration gives science and XP, Total Logic simply gives a lot of science, Waarior's Code gives XP and culture, Isolationism gives espionage and XP, Capitalism gives lots of money and happyness, Prophets mainly gives happyness and culture, and Service to the State (A new religion that takes Pah-wrait's place and is the starting tech for Cardassia, Dominion, Vaadwaur and Terran Empire) has a number of small effects.

KittJT

Oct 25, 2009, 04:04 PM

Now, i know i don't come around often, but i'm an avid star trek, as well as civ 4 fan, and i have to say as soon as bts came out with the final frontier, i almost drooled at the prospect of a star trek mod. Well, i downloaded one (cant remember which as i have long since deleted it) and i have to say, was very dissapointed. Long have i wanted to make my own star trek mod, but i have never modded anything before, and i'm afariad i have no idea how. however, regardlessly, i have given great thought to it anways. With any star trek game/mod, there are always 2 types of people out there. the first being the ones who don't care, and like everything over the top and have as much as you can get. The problem with this is that the less and less canon you get, the less and less it feels like star trek. THe other type are the ones who would want a star trek SIMULATION. everything has to be exactally like the series. no innovation, no interesting concepts, some races horribly overpowered, some horribly underpowered. THe problem here is that it become not very fun. The entire game you would have sparse ships, and there would be no war. No, the correct path would be down the middle.
Here's my honest opinion of some of the good and bad things that can be done with a star trek mod.

1. having minor powers play a major role is not a good thing.
The best example that comes to mind here would be having the ferengi or bajor (or similarly regarded races) playable. Sure, they're an integral part of the star trek universe, (and might be a good idea for a minor, unplayable race in a large scenario). But in all honesty, in any of the series, the ferengi or bajorans never play a large power role. bajor only has the one planet (plus a couple temporary colonies). It would be much better to have bajor as a star system in say a galaxy map, than a playable race. Same stands for say, breen. Yes, they are cool and play a large role in the dominion war, but we've only ever seen one ship of theirs. again, cool for a scenario as an unplayable, but maybe not best for a simple ffa. I think enough said here.

2. Starting out too quick, too fast.
The tech tree should be at least as large as that in final frontier. With all the culture surrounding star trek, it shouldn't be hard. infact, if the 'age system' is used, you can start in enterprise era, and move through the tech tree into the modern (and even more than modern if you like) eras. Like i said, i am an avid star trek fan, but the game should still feel like well-paced, well-balanced game of civ (albeit a super-awesome-cool game of civ)

3. Hordes of UUs for the eras.
Every game i play that has star trek in it, has a rediculous amount of ships that we've never even seen on screen. Star trek gaming, and fan creation is awesome, but we never heard of half of them before somebody comes out with them. Now i realize to make a balanced game, it will require some digging, and probabaly some faking in order to fill in say, the units for cardassians for the early game, but there's no reason to have a maquis raider with an intrepid saucer section welded on the front :p

4. Borg
I realize i could just not play with borg, but for balancing issues, they just have to be omitted from regular gameplay (scenarios would def. be cool though). simply put, there is no way to balance it, wile still keeping the flavor of the series intact.

5. A simple promotion re-vamp
Instead of combat 1, or armor 1, please, make some graphics (or if you won't i will) for a different button. However, the system already put forth in final frontier (FF) is great. For unit classes, splitting them into groups like light ships, heavy ships, battleships, etc. was a great thing for them to do. In star trek, would be like frigates, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, battleships, escort, etc.

6. Ship production/balancing.
One interesting departure from regular civ gameplay that i think a star trek mod could afford is the percieved value of materiel, and the inability to convert. to describe this, i'll contrast regular civ to ST. In real world, a new technology comes along, you hand your Longbowman or swordsman a gun, train them on it, and done. You've upgraded your unit for a couple bucks. In ST however, a ship is a huge construct, that constantly undergoes refits, and eventually, decomissioned.

Adding this to the game would be an AWESOME change. for example. The excelsior class was first released in 2285, and was the top of its line then. By 2375 (the end of the dominion war) the excelsior class is probabaly the most plentiful (along with the miranda) ship, and serves as the backbone of the fleet, spotted by galaxies, steamrunners, and supposedly at least 2 sovereigns (USS enterprise and the USS sovereign, although neither are ever seen in an episode. So 90 years after their production, they are still plentiful despite more advanced ships to come out. This is because of refits. In star trek, ships aren't "upgraded," an excelsior isn't magically replaced by a galaxy. Instead they're refitted. Having upgraded models such as excelsior I, II, III, etc. would add a flavor (and diversity) to an otherwise monotoned fleet. No new graphics would be required, just an upgraded strength, and maybe movement value. Eventually, the ships would get outdated (there aren't any constitutions in ds9) and (like in real life) would be useless and deleted (decomissioned) to avoid paying maintenance. Just a thought

I have more, but i'm too lazy to type everything all out, especially considering it probabaly won't be integrated.
Anyways, sorry for the block of text, hope you keep some of those things in mind. I would offer my services and time if i knew how. But if you are desperate for help, i suppose i could learn.

apenpaap

Oct 25, 2009, 04:22 PM

Welcome to the forums!
1. having minor powers play a major role is not a good thing.
The best example that comes to mind here would be having the ferengi or bajor (or similarly regarded races) playable. Sure, they're an integral part of the star trek universe, (and might be a good idea for a minor, unplayable race in a large scenario). But in all honesty, in any of the series, the ferengi or bajorans never play a large power role. bajor only has the one planet (plus a couple temporary colonies). It would be much better to have bajor as a star system in say a galaxy map, than a playable race. Same stands for say, breen. Yes, they are cool and play a large role in the dominion war, but we've only ever seen one ship of theirs. again, cool for a scenario as an unplayable, but maybe not best for a simple ffa. I think enough said here.
I don't agree with this. Let's take Bajor as an example. Their civilization is 2 million years old, and the only reason they aren't really big in star trek is because it took them really long to get to a high industrial level, and when they did the Cardies came. But imagine if their industry had come 500 years earlier (a blink of an eye compared to their civilization's length). They could've been very powerful (Perhaps occupying Cardassia?:lol:) and have a major role in the galaxy. Same goes for the other minor races. As for the Breen, they almost won the Dominion the war. In fact, if it weren't for Damar's resistance, they would have. Surely they are worth including, even if we know only a littlre about them?

2. Starting out too quick, too fast.
The tech tree should be at least as large as that in final frontier. With all the culture surrounding star trek, it shouldn't be hard. infact, if the 'age system' is used, you can start in enterprise era, and move through the tech tree into the modern (and even more than modern if you like) eras. Like i said, i am an avid star trek fan, but the game should still feel like well-paced, well-balanced game of civ (albeit a super-awesome-cool game of civ)
Agreed.

3. Hordes of UUs for the eras.
Every game i play that has star trek in it, has a rediculous amount of ships that we've never even seen on screen. Star trek gaming, and fan creation is awesome, but we never heard of half of them before somebody comes out with them. Now i realize to make a balanced game, it will require some digging, and probabaly some faking in order to fill in say, the units for cardassians for the early game, but there's no reason to have a maquis raider with an intrepid saucer section welded on the front :p
Completly agreed. In my modmod (look in my signature) each civ has 3 UUs. I am striving to make it 5, but since it's a lot of work, it doesn't go very fast.

4. Borg
I realize i could just not play with borg, but for balancing issues, they just have to be omitted from regular gameplay (scenarios would def. be cool though). simply put, there is no way to balance it, wile still keeping the flavor of the series intact.
Then why even try? IMO the hyper-unbalanced Borg we have now are a lot of fun. When you're in a bad mood and just want to destroy a few civilizations without caring about gameplay, they can be fun to play, and when they AI is them, you face a big challenge.

5. A simple promotion re-vamp
Instead of combat 1, or armor 1, please, make some graphics (or if you won't i will) for a different button. However, the system already put forth in final frontier (FF) is great. For unit classes, splitting them into groups like light ships, heavy ships, battleships, etc. was a great thing for them to do. In star trek, would be like frigates, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, battleships, escort, etc.
Agreed.

6. Ship production/balancing.
One interesting departure from regular civ gameplay that i think a star trek mod could afford is the percieved value of materiel, and the inability to convert. to describe this, i'll contrast regular civ to ST. In real world, a new technology comes along, you hand your Longbowman or swordsman a gun, train them on it, and done. You've upgraded your unit for a couple bucks. In ST however, a ship is a huge construct, that constantly undergoes refits, and eventually, decomissioned.

Adding this to the game would be an AWESOME change. for example. The excelsior class was first released in 2285, and was the top of its line then. By 2375 (the end of the dominion war) the excelsior class is probabaly the most plentiful (along with the miranda) ship, and serves as the backbone of the fleet, spotted by galaxies, steamrunners, and supposedly at least 2 sovereigns (USS enterprise and the USS sovereign, although neither are ever seen in an episode. So 90 years after their production, they are still plentiful despite more advanced ships to come out. This is because of refits. In star trek, ships aren't "upgraded," an excelsior isn't magically replaced by a galaxy. Instead they're refitted. Having upgraded models such as excelsior I, II, III, etc. would add a flavor (and diversity) to an otherwise monotoned fleet. No new graphics would be required, just an upgraded strength, and maybe movement value. Eventually, the ships would get outdated (there aren't any constitutions in ds9) and (like in real life) would be useless and deleted (decomissioned) to avoid paying maintenance. Just a thought.

I agree with this too, but it would be a lot of work.

openair

Nov 09, 2009, 11:46 AM

@KittJT

1: Just because we didn't see something on screen at some point is no reason not to include it in this mod. Comparing the ferengi and breen with bajor isn't valid at all, and leads me to believe you dont know as much about star trek as you would like to think. The ferengi and breen are both significant powers with starships of the same size/power of many other races.

3: Just because YOU've never heard of them, doesn't mean they're not cannon. The raider with the Interpid saucer IS cannon. It is the USS Yeager, which is seen on screen multiple times during ds9. Many of the early Cardassian, Ferengi, and other units are borrowed from Birth of the Federation a official game. Most of the ships in this mod are cannon in some way (tv, official games, tech manuals, ect). Again maybe you're not as familiar with vessels from Star Trek as you'd like to think.

4: I would personally perfer to see the Borg as a normally balanced raced. Not overpowered, or removed. Similar to how Star Trek Armada handled the borg and 8472.

nutz4dos

Nov 23, 2009, 08:13 PM

TC01

Nov 23, 2009, 09:13 PM

I have a suggestion that could deal with the Unique Unit problem. In Star Trek we want every ship of every race to feel unique. So why not do that? The Borg every ship a unique unit idea has been suggested, why not expand that idea and pursue it to its logical conclusion? Rather than unique units, have none at all. Then have every race give every one of their units a single automatic upgrade. One that only they have access to. For example:
Borg: Adaptation. +25% strength.
Krenim: Chronoton Weapons. +25% vs. ships.
Dominion: Jem-Hadar Shock Troops. +25% vs. colonies.
Federation: Starfleet Ingenuity. Promotions for this unit cost 25% less.
Romulans: Improved Cloak. Unit may cloak and decloak for free, perhaps also reduce the cloaked ship movement penalty.

Well, that's a basic idea, anyway. That way every unit would be unique.

Not sure what you mean by "cloaking and decloaking for free"...

These features would be best handled as "racial promotions", as are seen in Fall from Heaven 2, promotions that are applied to all units of a civilization, or as "racial traits", like in FFH 2 and in Colonization. Of course, those concepts would need to be added to Star Trek.

I think that this is definitely not the answer to making more unique units, though. We want units to be unique, not just from empire to empire, but inside that empire... All unique units would be giving, say, the Federation, a named UU for all units, and different bonuses for each. Not just making "Light IV" and "Heavy II" and "Exploration I" have the same bonus.

jfby

Nov 23, 2009, 10:18 PM

I did this for my mod on a ship by ship basis. Some races have many different types, like the Feds, Klingons, or Romulans, while others were a little harder such as the Dominion or Borg. I tried to use as much cannon as possible to rate each ship in terms of strength, speed, bonuses, but went for balance of gameplay if I wasn't sure.

I'm not playing right now until I get Windows 7. I had XP before on a much slower machine, yet the game ran about 2-3x as fast as it does on my far more powerful laptop. When I get Windows 7, I expect things to go far smoother.

deanej

Nov 24, 2009, 08:31 AM

Not sure what you mean by "cloaking and decloaking for free"...

Well, I kinda haven't been posting on this thread latley, so if people haven't been following a bunch of other threads they might not know what's been happening recently. Oops.

To fix that:
-TC01's cloaking modmod has been merged in with Star Trek. bOnlyDefensive has been cloned to Civ4PromotionInfos, so cloaked units won't be able to attack (except for the Bird of Prey and Scimitar)
-TC01's worldbuilder improvements have been merged in
-Wonders are always kept when a city is captured (via the new bAlwaysKeep in Civ4BuildingInfos)
-The python lists for buildings to always destroy and buildings that can be built only once in a system have been removed. This functionality has been taken over by bNeverCapture and bOnlyOne.

nutz4dos

Nov 24, 2009, 03:17 PM

I think that this is definitely not the answer to making more unique units, though. We want units to be unique, not just from empire to empire, but inside that empire... All unique units would be giving, say, the Federation, a named UU for all units, and different bonuses for each. Not just making "Light IV" and "Heavy II" and "Exploration I" have the same bonus.

Ostensibly yes, it would be better if you could make every unit unique, but the problem with that is that most of those "unique" units will probably just end up having the same bonus anyway. With the new and improved Borg is there any change save making every Borg unit stronger and faster? So is there really any difference between that version and an automatic upgrade that makes all Borg units stronger and faster by a predetermined amount?
You could also go the route FFH went with ships, the immediately alterable crew promotions. Possibly with every race having a collection of promotions they have access to, in addition to some that anyone can use. Which would literally make every ship unique.

6. Ship production/balancing.
One interesting departure from regular civ gameplay that i think a star trek mod could afford is the percieved value of materiel, and the inability to convert. to describe this, i'll contrast regular civ to ST. In real world, a new technology comes along, you hand your Longbowman or swordsman a gun, train them on it, and done. You've upgraded your unit for a couple bucks. In ST however, a ship is a huge construct, that constantly undergoes refits, and eventually, decomissioned.
I also have a suggestion for this, a very simple one. Have a couple different versions of each ship, then just upgrade the ship to the refit version.
Okay, example: Refit Constitution and Excelsior classes become available at the same time (or roughly same tech level) but the refit is weaker. Cheaper but weaker, and you can pay a flat rate to refit your Constitutions but can't upgrade anything to Excelsior class. Thus your existing Constitution fleet can be upgraded to a still useful ship, but you'd probably invest in the newer Excelsiors (unless you're directly under attack and want the faster to produce Constitutions). Make sense?

What we really need for a more appropriate feel is actually more Aliens. Not more races, there are plenty of those, but for the minor civs to be far more prevalent. I was thinking about this, and this is actually a really good place to make every unit unique. Pick an alien race whose ships we saw once or twice in an era, and make the barbarian ship of a class for that era that ship. Say every Voyager era light is a Malon Freighter, that sort of thing.
Also something that would give the game a very Trek feel is to make every system act like a goody hut, whether in addition to or in place of the debris fields. This would make entering the system for the first time a first contact scenario. Then give the barbarians a very good chance of spawning an alien colony then when first contacted.

TC01

Nov 24, 2009, 06:04 PM

I have an alternate idea on refits:

-There's a "Refit Ship" button. When you press it, it gives the ship a promotion like "Refit I" and changes the name to be "Refit 1" (so the ship would be called "Refit I (Light II)" for instance). If, however, the unit already has Refit I, it gives it Refit II, and the thing reads "Refit II". And the same for a "Refit III" promotion. These promotions would make the ship significantly stronger. So a Light II might then be the match of a Light III. But by the time Light IVs role around, they won't be, and you would need to refit again.

You'd have to make Refit Ship cost gold (the same as an upgrade to the next unit), only be available in solar systems, and require the Shipyard or something like that to be in the city.

apenpaap

Nov 25, 2009, 09:04 AM

TC01

Nov 25, 2009, 09:48 AM

^That's a pretty good idea. Even better would be if refit promotions for specific ships only got available in certain eras, for example the Constitution gets refit 1 available at Integrated Deflector, while the Excelsior gets refit 1 at Isolinear Chips, refit 2 at Saucer Separation, and refit 3 at Qauntum Torpedoes.

Well, ideally, that would be how it would work. But then you might need to add an array (technically a "linked list") to CIV4UnitInfos.xml like this:

<Refits>
<Refit>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_REFIT_I</PromotionType>
<PrereqTech>TECH_ISOLINEAR_CHIPS</PrereqTech>
<iCost>100</iCost>
</Refit>
<Refit>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_REFIT_II</PromotionType>
<PrereqTech>TECH_SAUCER_SEPARATION</PrereqTech>
<iCost>200</iCost>
</Refit>
<Refit>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_REFIT_III</PromotionType>
<PrereqTech>TECH_QUANTUM_TORPEDOES</PrereqTech>
<iCost>300</iCost>
</Refit>
</Refits>

I made up the numbers off the top of my head, but this kind of array would be what we need to track refit data.

JareshInyo

Nov 25, 2009, 11:29 AM

I like nutz4dos's Idea of the civilization wide promotion. It seems to me like a simple way to give each civilization uniqueness.

nutz4dos

Nov 25, 2009, 04:10 PM

Aren't those two systems, from the player's perspective, basically the same? Either way an upgraded version of the ship must be purchased for gold, only at a base, and only becomes available at a certain point.
Which system would be simpler to implement?

KittJT

Nov 29, 2009, 01:17 AM

@openair,
now you don't need to go around and pick apart my words to find a loophole, and you don't need to start making comments about me. Lets not do the whole iternet "i'm smarter than you" thing, and have a discussion.

I was just trying to make a point, however i might have been misunderstood. I may just speak for myself, but my opinion might be shared by others as well.
When i look to play a star trek game, i enjoy pitting myself (as say the feds) against the main protagonists (or antagonists) of the series. Kind of in the same thing as "now can I do as good as picard" kind of thing. That said, IMHO, having say eight complete races, detailed to the max with tons of UUs per race would be bettter (in my eyes) than having 20 underdeveloped races. Pitting feds vs roms vs klingon vs dominion vs cardassians would be more fun than having feds vs breen vs ferengi vs bajor.

As for what I have heard of... i have not seen every episode (and yes i have seen the yeager, i was just making a kitbashing point), but i have seen most. If i have not heard of a race or a shiptype, its a pretty good bet that it doesn't play a large role. to illustrate my point.
Great, iconic ships:
NX
Constitution
Miranda
Excelsior
Defiant
Galaxy
Intrepid
Sovereign
Akira

Now, I have no idea how many UU's you are planning on having for each race, but if you have that many^ i will be impressed. That said, that will probabaly not happen, so which of those would you sub out for a Yeagar. There's my point.

As for the refit subject:
I don't know how much work any of this is, but in my (somewhat limited) view, the easiest way to do this would be as such:
Basically copy the information (including model) of the existing ship as a new ship, and change the strength (and maybe movement) values.
Rename the ship say (constitution II), and make the tech pre-req down the road a little voi-la, you have your system. Now, just the upgrade trees will be very fragmented, but yeah. correct me if this is a modding nightmare however.

openair

Nov 29, 2009, 06:22 PM

If you only want to play with certain races the option is there. Create a custom game and only include the races you want to play. Not including those races in the mod leaves us who would like to see them with no option. The mod also includes a Dominion War scenario so not including the Breen would be a big problem for that scenario.

As far as complete... Have you actually played the current version of the mod? (or maybe only one of the period specific mods, and not the overall "Star Trek," "Galaxy," or "Expanded" versions?) All of the ships you listed are included. They may not all be UUs, but the models used in game are on your list. UU's for all units isn't nessary in a game where there's all of 3 important stats per ship. An early Miranda is very similar to a early B'rel (for example) as far as movement speed, strength and build cost are concerned (even more so for balance). Same for say Galaxy, Vor'cha, and D'dedirex (other then cloaking devices, sensors, ect, which can/are handled by promotions).

NX - "Warp 5 Ship"
Constition - Constition (UU) - Light I-II
Miranda- Exportation I-II
Excelsior - Light III
Defiant - Interceptor
Galaxy - Light V
Intrepid - Exporation VI
Sovereign - Light VI
Akira - Heavy I

Ambassador (Light IV), Prometheus (Heavy II), Constellation (Exporation III), Nebula (Exploration IV), and Nova (Exporation V) are also included.

EDIT: And all are UU's in some of the period specific versions of the mod, such as the DS9 scenario.

deanej

Dec 17, 2009, 06:52 PM

Just as a quick update, I've made some changes to the base game that should make things work better. Namely, an AI bug has been fixed, building overflow now works, stuff in a couple python callbacks is now in the DLL, barbs should now build cities, the barb world option from Assimilation is now enabled, and I'm looking to make CvAI work with UBs (instead of being hacked to allow them) as well as merge in the python mod helper so I can make some AI routines to make the AI cloak and build sensor posts (it won't be great, but better than nothing).

I hope to get to the civs soon, but I could use input on a couple things:
What player color should the Voth and Species 8472 have? I'm hoping to have something that doesn't conflict with any existing civs and new ones. Assets\XML\Interface\Civ4PlayerColorInfos.xml has all the choices - not all can be used as the 1.0 civs have custom colors that are very similar to some of the ones in the file. Civ4ColorVals can also be used (there are some colors that have not been adapted into a player color). The new civs with colors are:
-Xindi (Light Yellow)
-Maquis (Light Brown)
-Orion (Dark Purple)
-Suliban (Pink)

If anyone has flags for these civs that would also be very helpful.

What should the Vaadwaur have as a UU?
They presently don't have one to compensate for the subspace corridors - in 3.0 this will be done by not have a trait. I'm thinking of giving them a super-UU that is limited in number (and is extra, rather than replacing something) and has a high strength but beyond that I haven't thought of something yet.

apenpaap

Dec 18, 2009, 08:18 AM

J
I hope to get to the civs soon, but I could use input on a couple things:
What player color should the Voth and Species 8472 have? I'm hoping to have something that doesn't conflict with any existing civs and new ones. Assets\XML\Interface\Civ4PlayerColorInfos.xml has all the choices - not all can be used as the 1.0 civs have custom colors that are very similar to some of the ones in the file. Civ4ColorVals can also be used (there are some colors that have not been adapted into a player color). The new civs with colors are:
-Xindi (Light Yellow)
-Maquis (Light Brown)
-Orion (Dark Purple)
-Suliban (Pink)

If anyone has flags for these civs that would also be very helpful.

I think that so far, the only green civ is the Ferengi, so maybe you can make them different shadings of green? White might work too.

What should the Vaadwaur have as a UU?
They presently don't have one to compensate for the subspace corridors - in 3.0 this will be done by not have a trait. I'm thinking of giving them a super-UU that is limited in number (and is extra, rather than replacing something) and has a high strength but beyond that I haven't thought of something yet.
In my modmod, they've got two UUs: One is the Stasis Pod Operator, replaces Great Artist. Settling gives +3 hammers, + 2 food, + 3 science, + 3 gold, + 3 espionage, + 3 culture, Making a Great Work gives much less culture than a generic Great Artist. This is basically supposed to be a guy who revives people from their stasis pods, thus granting all those bonuses. The other is the Vaadwaur Fighter, which replaces the interceptor but has 25 range. (Because it uses those subspace corridors)

deanej

Dec 18, 2009, 04:08 PM

I think I've gotten the color situation straightened out. I'm going with the green for one but I'm afraid I might have to tweak it as it appears too good to be true. I've invented a light brown for the Voth.

For the Vaadwaur UU I think I'll go with the fighter. Thanks!

jfby

Dec 21, 2009, 12:35 PM

I'm very excited about this mod still, but haven't put any major time into it because of the time between turns. On average size with 6 other races, the time can get to over 60 seconds.

It could be hardware related, but I doubt it. My laptop by every measureable means is at least 30% faster than the desktop I had that I used when 1.0 was out, yet the desktop ran 1.0 with the longest wait between turns being 20 seconds on a map size larger.

The only thing I'm thinking that could be that the laptop has Vista and the desktop had XP...

I have added many new unique units and corresponding civilopedia entries, could this be causing it?

Thanks for any feedback.

deanej

Dec 21, 2009, 01:05 PM

I can't think of anything specific to 2.0 that would cause this, but having more units/cities on the map certainly makes it slower (it's possible that the longer tech tree is allowing civs to get bigger before victory). 3.0 should be faster, as I've disabled half of the python callbacks. Some of the traits/wonders do use python, but I think it's all in less costly areas (anything that isn't will be reconsidered).

EDIT: I might need a new trait for the Kazon. Even though the XML theoretically allows for a trait to give +1 food/production from trade routes this does not appear to actually be the case.

deanej

Dec 22, 2009, 09:56 PM

I've merged in some code and now there's a capture system. When defeating an enemy, all units have a 1% chance to capture the ship. The Assimilator promotion (available at combat 3 and for free to the Borg and granted by the Tholian unique wonder) gives the unit 30% chance to defeat the enemy and the Resistor promotion (available at combat 2 and free for the Borg, Bajorans, and Species 8472) allows the defeated unit to resist capture (60% chance).

Also, if anyone has ideas for a Species 8472 flag I'm open to them.

apenpaap

Dec 26, 2009, 11:25 AM

I have a couple of suggestions:
In Fall from Heaven, combat produces twice as much XP then in vanilla. I think this would be a nice idea to implement in this mod too, as it would allow for much more specialized ships, and make even the promotions far down the promotion tree reachable.
I found a youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QpFTmdK7nQ) of the Federation anthem without the applause and other sound effects. I think it would make a great addition to this mod.
In my modmod, I made the religions have different effects each (Warrior's code, for example, gives XP to units built in the city, while Total Logic increases the amount of :science:). I think this would be nice to have in the main mod too.

deanej

Dec 26, 2009, 12:49 PM

I'll double the XP values. I tried to record the Federation anthem but I got a TON of interfearance (my laptop mic is not that good I guess) and I don't know if civ will play WMA files anyways (the format Vista's sound recorder saves in).

apenpaap

Dec 26, 2009, 12:50 PM

I'll record it in MP3.

EDIT: It's in the attachment.

deanej

Dec 26, 2009, 03:00 PM

I've gotten all three suggestions in. I've also sent a PM to Jaydn about unit models as I just realized that I put the Voth and Species 8472 into the plan without having unit models for them! I don't know when I'll hear back. I could still use a flag for Species 8472.

nutz4dos

Dec 27, 2009, 03:52 PM

They were in Star Trek Armada II, good a place as any to start looking for both ship models and a flag idea. This site has a very extensive modding community with a lot of ships and races for additional items: http://armada2.filefront.com/

Also, for future reference, this site:
http://www.flv2mp3.com/
Will convert any youtube video to an mp3.

deanej

Dec 28, 2009, 04:57 PM

I'm afraid I don't have the software for nif to nif file conversions, nor the ability to animate it. I think I can pull through the Voth with Grigari ships but I'm not sure yet. Species 8472 might have to go on hold until I can get assets for them (not only am I missing a bioship that I thought I had, I don't have a flag for them).

JEELEN

Dec 29, 2009, 01:43 PM

Sorry if this has been asked before (even by me), but have you tried (or consider) including St Matin's CAR mod in Star Trek or is that not feasible/practical? :confused:

deanej

Dec 29, 2009, 03:22 PM

If we're talking about the same CAR mod, it's already been done for 3.0.

JEELEN

Dec 29, 2009, 03:34 PM

Cool!:cool:

Did you have much trouble including it?

deanej

Dec 29, 2009, 03:38 PM

Mostly it was just file comparison. That said, it's one of the changes that I suspect of breaking the edit city button, particularly as it was a large DLL change.

The_J

Jan 01, 2010, 08:59 PM

I'm afraid I don't have the software for nif to nif file conversions, nor the ability to animate it.

Converting shouldn't be a problem. Blender and the needed scripts are free, and converting is easy. Just load a model in Blender, and save it with civ4 as setting.
An artist should then be able to get animations from FinalFrontier ships on them, if they somehow fit. But that's a bit more difficult.

os79

Jan 08, 2010, 01:02 PM

Y'know, Afforess, a brilliant modmodder of Rise of Mankind figured out how to migrated Python Callbacks to XML tags. That significantly improved the speed of RoM. I'm wondering if you ask him and examine the sources he provided whether or not you can figure out how to convert python callbacks in this game to xml tags, so that the standard and larger sized maps would be enjoyable?

deanej

Jan 09, 2010, 12:33 PM

BtS already converts many of the python callbacks to XML tags. What Afforess did was add a bunch more, and yes I do plan on merging that code into Star Trek. I only use one or two of those that he added so there should be an improvement.

Treaciv

Jan 10, 2010, 01:09 AM

Hello together, I hope you won't mind my interruption, i recently have discovered this great Star Trek mod and it's really fun - there is a lot of passion in it! :goodjob:

I just had one big suggestion about the missing overflow production 'between buildings', please check once T-hawk's solution (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8710693&highlight=overflow) if it would fit for the Star Trek mod v3.0 and maybe even for v2.38 too!?
At least for Final Frontier the offered CvGameCoreDLL.dll (on the next thread page) has worked well during my last FF game.

I and probably many others too would really appreciate it if unused hammers would be be accounted (partially) for the next project, in a similar way as it already happens with units.
Thanks in advance! :)

deanej

Jan 10, 2010, 11:29 AM

Treaciv

Jan 11, 2010, 01:52 PM

Actually, the SDK implementation of this for 3.0 was done before T-hawk compiled the DLL for Final Frontier.

I can't really back-port the SDK changes done for 3.0 as many of them rely on numerous XML changes.
Thanks for your fast answer.

So, the matter about the overflow production will be handled in v3.0 !?

But there is no hope to ever get it for v2.38 !? :sad:

deanej

Feb 14, 2010, 12:27 PM

Time to make this official:
Due to TC01's work with Final Frontier, the huge delay it would cause to reimplement Star Trek around it (plus updates), my desire to eventually update the scenarios, and the long time it's taking to get 3.0 out, the following changes have been made:

-After 3.0 has been out for a while and had its patching done, 4.0 will be developed which will merge in TC01's changes plus update the scenarios to the latest base, as well as implement a few delayed features (more on that below)
-The scenarios scheduled for 3.0 have been delayed to 4.0, due to the scenario updating
-The updates to The Eugenics Wars will be done via patch or delayed to 4.0 (due to time)
-Some AI stuff will also be delayed to 4.0 due to time, as will random events (though I may start on the latter in 3.0's patches)
-Species 8472 will not be in 3.0 (though I'll see if I can get them in 4.0)

Seems bad, but it does mean that the only stuff left for 3.0 is:
-disabling a few more python callbacks
-new civs/leaders
-a few enhancements to Deep Space Nine

This should allow 3.0 to get done much sooner than it otherwise would be (it's already one of the biggest updates ever).

Trajan7

Feb 14, 2010, 02:31 PM

So, no Terran Empire Scenarios? If not, that's fine, because 3.0 will be done sooner.

deanej

Feb 14, 2010, 05:24 PM

They'll still come out, just not with 3.0.

Trajan7

Feb 14, 2010, 09:16 PM

Well, that is what I ment, that they wouldn't come out in 3.0. But thanks for the quick reply!

zoommooz

Feb 16, 2010, 11:48 PM

Most of the traits/unique wonders I'm happy with (but that doesn't mean that I might not change them if persuaded); there are a few that I haven't figured out but I have at least some effect for everything (though some I really want to change to something better, and some of the UWs are better suited as traits than UWs). I'll be posting about those soon.

New to the Startrek mod, and am reeeally enjoying it. My only problem (and you have already addressed this:), and by the sounds of it 3.0 will help dramatically) turn length around 90sec). Anyway, as soon as I stated playing the current version (2.38) I made a few mods to it myself (very easy ones) which you may like to consider. My premise for these mods is always to make each faction as balanced AND as differnt and unquie as possible. So in regards to this I changed the religious shrines to all be differnt, basing the changes (and their strenghths) on what type of religion they are. Ie the merchant one gives two merchants instead of priests, adds one trade route in each city and gives a +8 gold bonus. Now, in term of balance, and what each shrine gives, the above mods (and all the other chages I made to other shrines) are not really what is important, more, the idea that all the shrines should be unquie.

The other change that I made, was in terms of game length and unit costs (this may also have contributed to my turn lenghts, however) as I like 2000ish turn game,s with research and growth etc balanced for this. This then leads on to ships cost, where I always like the idea that, a galaxy class ship, for example is a big deal, and planets should not be able to pump them out every 3 turn (imho). So, from light V-VI, explorer VI, and both heavies, I increased costs and stats, and depending on which particular ship, added +1 to +3 extra gold upkeep (so the Inteprid class +1, Sovereign+2, tactical cube+3). Anyway that my two bobs worth, and I sure what is going on in version 3.0 will be great (and even if my ideas are particularly popular, they very easy to implement in my own version:).

Again, a really enjoyable mod. Are there any eta's for 3.0, or do you do any beta testing?

Cheers

Edit: My game is in the ST Galaxy map.

deanej

Feb 17, 2010, 04:25 PM

I believe the marathon gamespeed is about 2000 turns long.

zoommooz

Feb 17, 2010, 08:48 PM

I believe the marathon gamespeed is about 2000 turns long.

Ah yes, of course you are right, (I forgot to specifically mention that the galaxy maps have a 400 turn limit within the map file).

deanej

Feb 18, 2010, 02:56 PM

zoommooz

Feb 19, 2010, 06:54 AM

I would imagine that if you remove the lines in the worldbuilder file that have the turn limit and the gamespeed you could get marathon in the scenario (haven't tested it, but I'm 99% positive it will work).

Already done, and yes deleting this line cause the senerio to fall back to the default settings in game speed xml.

On a seperate note, because of turn time lenghth I started a new game with 12 civs, in the standard startrek mod, using a spiral galaxy map. Even on emporer setting, I am really pulling away from the AI (even the borg) in terms of research, alarmingly so (in terms of game balance and difficulty-I love challenging games). Because I am still quite new to this mod (but not others) I was wonder is this normal?, and do other people experiece this?. And what exactly is the problem with the AI, that it is researching so poorly? Any ideas?

deanej

Feb 19, 2010, 12:57 PM

It's probably because the AI doesn't know about building on different planets, so if you use that feature, your cities will wind up better than the AI's.

zoommooz

Feb 21, 2010, 08:07 PM

It's probably because the AI doesn't know about building on different planets, so if you use that feature, your cities will wind up better than the AI's.

Oh, I did not know this is a separte option, how do you disable/enable it?. Part of the problem also was that because I modified the iTrain for my longer lenghth games, and because of the AI's love of building early units (when compared with a human at least), the longer the game (and the greater the iBuild-iTrain values), the more help the AI needs for these. So, for balances my research is 145% of what the AI's is, and the iBUIld and iTrain rates are 65% of mine, and finally, the AI is putting up a fight:)

Also, found something interesting in relation to turn times. I was about 400 turns into a 2000 turn game, and the times were heading up to the 5 min mark. Because I am balancing (to my own preferences) during a game to try and help the AI, I needed to quit, and reload a save. Suddenly, turn times went down to 45 sec!!.

So, I know the python usage is one cause for the turn lag, but I think there may be other mysteries as well. Anyway, I reload now at least every 25 turn and there has been a vast overall improvment.

Lastly, factories with power provide a +50% production bonus? Should this actally be 50% total (25%+25%-with factory) as oppossed to the 75% total it now gets, or is this WAD?

deanej

Feb 21, 2010, 08:44 PM

zoommooz

Feb 21, 2010, 08:54 PM

Civ does have a memory lead somewhere - that's probably what you're seeing. Happens in RFC too, and probably FFH.

The planet thing isn't an enable/disable - you can just choose not to use it (now that I think about it, the AI might do this, but it defiantly isn't optimal).

How do they do on an unmodded game? I'm have some tweaks to difficulty levels in 3.0, so I might add that in if needed. I've added in the factory nerf.

Thanks for the reply, and the changes for 3.0 sound great. Yes, after a bit of exploring, I found that all other mods (well the ones I am familiar with) have this memery leak/load save that helps with them.

With the mutiple planets building thing, did Final Frontier introduce the idea of mutiple planet productuion?, and then not code the AI to do it?::( or did you do that:)(I would forgive you, I am really loving this mod). I am going to test this, because as you say, if the AI is not buidling mutiple building types (ie two hospitial for an unclean city) this would be a major cause for imbalance between human and AI.

deanej

Feb 21, 2010, 09:28 PM

Now that I think about it I believe Final Frontier has an AI for it somewhere, but it's definitely not even remotely optimal.

God-Emperor

Feb 22, 2010, 12:16 AM

The only time the regular Final Frontier AI will change what planet it is building things on is in the Python build overrides in CvAI.py, in the doCityAIProduction. This doesn't always attempt to override the regular AI build decisions (which is a very good thing - it is very basic and only knows about 8 buildings total), but when it does it can change the current build planet.

In this routine it generates weight values for 7 different factors (military, population, production, commerce, happy, health, and food) to try to identify its most pressing need. If any of these weights is high enough it will try to do something involving the one with the highest weight and if it can't do anything about that one thing, it is done - it never tries to fix more than one problem. For most of these, there is only one thing that it will try to build (the exception is that it knows about both commercial satellites and mag-leg networks for commerce, for the others it is things like: need more food = build nutrition facility, need more happy = build a sports arena, need more production = build a mining facility, and so on). If the planet currently set as the build planet already has the building it is trying to force, then it will pick another planet to build it on (in a pretty random way - it doesn't put much effort into trying to pick the best planet, and it even picks a bad choice in one case). That is the only time it will ever switch build planets.

There are a few bugs in the file that are mentioned over in the official Final Frontier mods thread which, if fixed, may make a very slight improvement in the AI. They are all fixed in Final Frontier Plus.

Want a quick improvement for the AI? It will do nothing for it in the early game, but allow it to keep larger populations productive in the later game. In CvAI.py find the lines that look like this (lines 670-671 in the unmodified code, or 673-674 in FF+'s version, in the population section):
# Good food on this planet, good for future growth
if (pPlanet.getTotalYield(iPlayer, iFood) >= 3):

Comment out that "if" line.

With it in there, it will never force-build a habitation system on any planet that does not produce at least 3 food (the regular AI might, through pure random luck, build one - but it knows nothing of planet population limits and places little value on habitation systems). Those planets that start with 0 food (the 0/3/3 and 0/2/5 planets) or 1 food (the 1/2/3 and 1/1/6 planets) will never have a habitation facility built on them no matter how much the current population is above the system's total planet limits, and the two types that start with 2 food per pop (2/2/1 and 2/0/3) will only build one after building a nutrition facility. This puts a pretty strict limit on the total amount of population the system can have doing actual work in the late game. It also means it never puts a habitation system on the highest production planets or the highest commerce planets. Habitation systems on those 1/1/6 planets do wonders for your economy (especially after building mag-levs and satellites to push the per-pop commerce up to 9) - and the AI's too.

You might notice that a few lines above this it gets a list of planets in order of food production (it is sorted high to low, a list of tuples with food and planet). It never uses this list. You might improve things by using that list too. It builds this list in multiple places, with variables names indicating that a couple of them should actually be based on production and commerce rather than food, and I don't think it ever actually uses any of them.

zoommooz

Feb 23, 2010, 04:11 AM

No real experience with CvAI. files. What do you mean by comment out? I assume this is more then just deleteing the 'if'?

Thanks

God-Emperor

Feb 23, 2010, 10:44 AM

Generally "comment out" means to change a statement into a comment so that it is not executed anymore. In Python this is done by putting a # character in front of it.

This is functionally equivalent to removing the entire line, but easier to undo (for example, you might decide later to undo it but with a ">= 1" instead of the ">= 3") and it doesn't change the line numbers of the all the lines of code after it (so line 800 in the file would still be line 800, not 799).

zoommooz

Feb 24, 2010, 04:35 AM

God-Emperor

Feb 24, 2010, 09:45 PM

I just might be omnipresent and omniscient.

But I doubt it.

deanej

Feb 24, 2010, 09:48 PM

Nah, you're just the person that knows more about Final Frontier than anyone else.

idontknow

Mar 03, 2010, 06:43 PM

May I suggest photon torpedoes, plasma torpedoes and the like be added to this excellent modpack? If so, I think this feature should be incorporated into this modpack in several ways. First the appropriate starships should have cargo space for the appropriate torpedoes. Second torpedoes may be manufactured in starbases and solar systems as in the original Final Frontier modpack. Third, photon torpedoes may have a range of two tiles and should damage only one starship without splash damage, and plasma torpedoes may have a range of one tile but should do splash damage to two or more starships in a stack; or both photon and plasma torpedoes should have a range of one tile, but photon torpedoes should have higher damage capabilities to a single ship and the plasma torpedoes (even though having lesser damage capabilities) should still keep their splash damage. And last but not least, some or all ships should be able to evade one or more types of torpedoes; the evasion chance should be determined by the ship class: for example, ships of the light or fighter class should have a higher evasion chance than a heavy or battleship class; since, I would imagine, ships of the former class would be more maneuvarable than those of the latter (even though some ships of the former class may have lower warp speed potential than those of the latter class).

In addition there will be some problems as my common sense quite utterly perkily declares. Incorporating this torpedoes feature, well at least in the manner i just described, will first spike up the unit maintenance costs and of course will second contribute to unbearable lag. Of these problems I am sure at least the first one can be corrected, but for the second I am afraid not.

deanej

Mar 15, 2010, 10:27 PM

TC01

Mar 16, 2010, 09:41 AM

Does anyone have any idea of what to do for a Xindi UU? I wanted to use the Xindi Superweapon, but mobile units that have the nuke ability behave in really strange ways (they don't actually nuke anything, but the effect/text goes off, and they can teleport anywhere).

I had an idea on how this could work when considering how the Krenim Weapon Ship could be made to actually target things. I think I actually coded it too, but I don't think I ever came up with a good way for the weapon effect to work.

You make a Xindi Superweapon and give it code similar to what starbases use to create missiles. Except, instead of creating missiles, you create "Xindi Superweapon Pulses" or something like that, and these units are nuke units. Essentially, every 10 (or whatever) turns the Xindi Superweapon energizes to the point where it can fire the weapon.

apenpaap

Mar 16, 2010, 11:15 AM

Or you can allow them to build doomsday missiles with Warp 7 Drive if that doesn't work.

deanej

Mar 18, 2010, 08:37 PM

I've made the superweapon act like a doomsday missile (actually, it is a doomsday missile, just with different art/requirements and a national limit); to compensate, all light ships can carry missiles.

I have everything but the civilization pedia entries and the leader stuff done. As always, first contact text for the leaders (Chang, Odo, Lore, Garak, Seska, Jaro Essa, Intendant Kira, Degra, Dolim, Eddington, Harrad-Sar, Silik, Gegen, Odala) is appreciated.

deanej

Apr 11, 2010, 01:57 PM

I've put the 3.0 changelog below. What's left is polishing the leaderheads (putting the first contact text into the game, pedia entries, personalities). I'm afraid I can't promise it will be out soon, but I can promise that it will be out within the first couple weeks of May.

•Added bUnique XML tag to Civ4UnitClassInfos.xml and Civ4BuildingClassInfos.xml
•Krenim can build Heavy II and Kazon can build Intercepgtor (UUs no longer replace anything)
•Disabled USE_CANNOT_TRAIN_CALLBACK (now obsolete)
•AI recieves free Warp 5 technology on higher difficulty levels
•Lowest difficulty levels: player recieves free Warp 5 technology
•Highest difficulty levels: AI recieves free Phase Pistols technology
•Barracks: no free promotions, grants 5 XP
•Many Worldbuilder improvements by TC01
•Disabled unrestricted leaders (due to civ traits)
•Disabled vassal states (due to an unresolvable bug)
•The AI can capture units
•Theme files moved to Star Trek folder (instead of using Final Frontier's), so that people who have deleted the Final Frontier mod do not need to reinstall or download additional files
•Fixed bug where systems built on a razed system would have buildings from the razed system
•Merged movies into main mod folder
•Renamed Serfdom to Penal Labor
•Tacheyon Detector promotion requires 25 gold
•Cloned bOnlyDefensive from units to promotions
•Merged in TC01's cloaking modmod (with some modifications)
•Klingon UU: Can attack when cloaked, quick attack range of 1
•Merged in the CivAccelerator mod by the History of the Three Kingdoms mod team
•Merged in part of the AI Autoplay mod (came with CivAccelerator)
•Food and production from trade routes (if modded in) will now be properly applied
•Engineer specialists provide production again, not XP
•Added the scenario game option (hidden, used only for loading scenarios)
•Scriptdata no longer used to keep track of scenario files. Use the scenario game option instead.
•Forced city AI update at start of game, in case of a possible bug
•Penal Labor: 5% military production bonus
•bNeverCapture now works!
•Added bAlwaysKeep and bOnlyOne to Civ4BuildingInfos.xml
•No more buildings stored in long lists in python! XML is now used instead.
•World wonders are kept when capturing a city
•Changed Romulan UU to Scimitar (replaces Heavy II): can attack while cloaked, 1 range
•Fixed AI population assignment bug
•Disabled USE_CANNOT_FOUND_CITY_CALLBACK (functionality now in the DLL)
•Overflow is now calculated before a building is added to a city (so hammer overflow is now always applied correctly for buildings)
•Added Hostile Universe gameoption
•Barbarian cities should now be founded
•Disabled USE_GET_BUILDING_COST_MOD_CALLBACK (functionality now in the DLL)
•Avoid Growth renamed to reflect that it prevents the auto-assigning of population
•Added new technologies: Interstellar Diplomacy, Interstellar Economics, Advanced Engineering
•Added the Project Genesis wonder (requires Advanced Engineering, +2 Great Scientist points, +2 science, won't lose best planet when hit by Subspace Warhead)
•CvAI now understands unique buildings
•Added Orbital Weapons Platform: requires Advanced Engineering, 15 strength, +25% city defense, 1 move (but immobile)
•Vaadwaur UU: Fighter, replaces Interceptor, 25 range
•Added civilization traits
•Text fix for TradeYieldModifiers in Civ4TraitInfos.xml
•Financial provides +50% commerce per trade route, no gold modifier
•Fixed Starbase culture bug on flat maps
•Added Assimilator promotion (30% chance to capture enemy units, requires combat 3)
•Added Resistor promition (60% chance to resist capture, requires combat 2)
•Units have 1% chance to capture enemy units during combat
•Added unique wonders
•Doubled unit XP values from combat
•Religions have different effects when state religion
•Religions can have help text
•Merged in Sephi's Faster 3.19 mod
•XML no longer logs blank entries and entries with NONE as an error in the XML log
•Current building planet is updated when a city is captured (prevents exploit where a player can build on a culture ring they don't have access to when capturing a city)
•Unique buildings will no longer be converted with the Assimilation option on
•Regular game concepts are now displayed (requires clean install)
•The Galaxy: normalized to calendar, can adjust gamespeed
•Nerfed factories (only +25% production with power)
•AI will build Habitation System on any planet
•Fixed bug where AI would attempt to build Starbase on a plot owned by another player
•Disabled customAssets (removes conflict with BUG)
•Disabled many additional python callbacks (thanks to Afforess)
•Alien Vessel: 2 strength
•Removed "Faith of the Heart" full version from soundtrack
•All light ships can carry missiles
•Added new civilizations: Xindi, Maquis, Orion, Suliban, Voth
•Added new leaders: Chang, Odo, Lore, Garak, Seska, Jaro Essa, Intendant Kira, Degra, Dolim, Eddington, Harrad-Sar, Silik, Forra Gegen, Odala

Praylak

Apr 11, 2010, 08:04 PM

Awesome, I'm looking forward to this.

What do these do exactly?....
-Sephi's Faster 3.19 mod
-CivAccelerator mod

deanej

Apr 11, 2010, 08:07 PM

They make the mod faster. Though I think disabling those python callbacks did more to make it faster than those changes. CivAccelarator caches data for the AI so it doesn't have to check things every turn. I don't remember exactly what Sephi did but I think it concerned unit AI.

jfby

Apr 12, 2010, 12:27 PM

Incredible... I look forward to downloading and playing this. I will be going out of the country and will be bringing my laptop, so I'll be playing 2.0 and modding a bit, but really like all the changes listed!

jfby

Apr 15, 2010, 02:00 PM

How much faster can we expect time between turns to be towards the end game?

deanej

Apr 15, 2010, 02:53 PM

Don't know. The early turns seemed faster, so I imagine the later turns are a lot faster. Especially after the "construction ship attempts to build starbase on tile owned by another civ" bug got fixed (it resulted in a large loop slowing the game way down).

jfby

Apr 15, 2010, 05:14 PM

AWESOME! I look forward to it greatly. Is there a way that bug can be fixed for 2.0?

deanej

Apr 15, 2010, 05:26 PM

It's a simple python change in CvAI. God-Emperor posted it somewhere, probably the Final Frontier Plus thread.

TC01

Apr 15, 2010, 07:33 PM

It's a simple python change in CvAI. God-Emperor posted it somewhere, probably the Final Frontier Plus thread.

While the bugfix is included in Final Frontier Plus (one of many reasons why FF+ is nearly as fast as normal BTS), it was in fact posted in the Final Frontier: Problems and Issues (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234998) thread. The exact fix can be found in this post (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8954165&postcount=434) (discussion occuring around that post). But bear in mind that the line number of this file will be different.

Here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8956662&postcount=438)'s a post by me, showing the context of where the code goes in CvAI.py. (That file can be found in Star Trek\Assets\Python).

deanej

May 01, 2010, 05:25 PM

Major announcement: 3.0 will be released some time during either Monday or Tuesday (EDT) next week.

os79

May 01, 2010, 06:56 PM

Major announcement: 3.0 will be released some time during either Monday or Tuesday (EDT) next week.

And it will have speed optimizations? Python callbacks are migrated to SDK? If so, then excellent news!!! :D

jfby

May 01, 2010, 07:07 PM

Yeah buddy!

deanej

May 01, 2010, 08:16 PM

And it will have speed optimizations? Python callbacks are migrated to SDK? If so, then excellent news!!! :D

It has a few AI optimizations, fixing a bug that had huge performance consequences, disables a bunch of BTS python callbacks that Firaxis didn't make possible to disable via XML without SDK changes, and disables four more (about half; these would be the ones that were easy to move and one that should have been disabled as of the first version for BtS because it was never used in Star Trek). Some of the building code was also made to use XML rather than python lists. What it doesn't have is Final Frontier Plus, which will be merged in for 4.0.

El_Salmun

May 07, 2010, 02:51 PM

Hello y' all,

I'm also a trek fan and I love ur mod Deane - can't wait for 3.0 and 4.0. Wasted many hours on it :p.
I also have to agree with KittJT:

Now, i know i don't come around often, but i'm an avid star trek, as well as civ 4 fan, and i have to say as soon as bts came out with the final frontier, i almost drooled at the prospect of a star trek mod. Well, i downloaded one (cant remember which as i have long since deleted it) and i have to say, was very dissapointed. Long have i wanted to make my own star trek mod, but i have never modded anything before, and i'm afariad i have no idea how. however, regardlessly, i have given great thought to it anways. With any star trek game/mod, there are always 2 types of people out there. the first being the ones who don't care, and like everything over the top and have as much as you can get. The problem with this is that the less and less canon you get, the less and less it feels like star trek. THe other type are the ones who would want a star trek SIMULATION. everything has to be exactally like the series. no innovation, no interesting concepts, some races horribly overpowered, some horribly underpowered. THe problem here is that it become not very fun. The entire game you would have sparse ships, and there would be no war. No, the correct path would be down the middle.
Here's my honest opinion of some of the good and bad things that can be done with a star trek mod.

1. having minor powers play a major role is not a good thing.
The best example that comes to mind here would be having the ferengi or bajor (or similarly regarded races) playable. Sure, they're an integral part of the star trek universe, (and might be a good idea for a minor, unplayable race in a large scenario). But in all honesty, in any of the series, the ferengi or bajorans never play a large power role. bajor only has the one planet (plus a couple temporary colonies). It would be much better to have bajor as a star system in say a galaxy map, than a playable race. Same stands for say, breen. Yes, they are cool and play a large role in the dominion war, but we've only ever seen one ship of theirs. again, cool for a scenario as an unplayable, but maybe not best for a simple ffa. I think enough said here.

2. Starting out too quick, too fast.
The tech tree should be at least as large as that in final frontier. With all the culture surrounding star trek, it shouldn't be hard. infact, if the 'age system' is used, you can start in enterprise era, and move through the tech tree into the modern (and even more than modern if you like) eras. Like i said, i am an avid star trek fan, but the game should still feel like well-paced, well-balanced game of civ (albeit a super-awesome-cool game of civ)

3. Hordes of UUs for the eras.
Every game i play that has star trek in it, has a rediculous amount of ships that we've never even seen on screen. Star trek gaming, and fan creation is awesome, but we never heard of half of them before somebody comes out with them. Now i realize to make a balanced game, it will require some digging, and probabaly some faking in order to fill in say, the units for cardassians for the early game, but there's no reason to have a maquis raider with an intrepid saucer section welded on the front :p

4. Borg
I realize i could just not play with borg, but for balancing issues, they just have to be omitted from regular gameplay (scenarios would def. be cool though). simply put, there is no way to balance it, wile still keeping the flavor of the series intact.

5. A simple promotion re-vamp
Instead of combat 1, or armor 1, please, make some graphics (or if you won't i will) for a different button. However, the system already put forth in final frontier (FF) is great. For unit classes, splitting them into groups like light ships, heavy ships, battleships, etc. was a great thing for them to do. In star trek, would be like frigates, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, battleships, escort, etc.

6. Ship production/balancing.
One interesting departure from regular civ gameplay that i think a star trek mod could afford is the percieved value of materiel, and the inability to convert. to describe this, i'll contrast regular civ to ST. In real world, a new technology comes along, you hand your Longbowman or swordsman a gun, train them on it, and done. You've upgraded your unit for a couple bucks. In ST however, a ship is a huge construct, that constantly undergoes refits, and eventually, decomissioned.

Adding this to the game would be an AWESOME change. for example. The excelsior class was first released in 2285, and was the top of its line then. By 2375 (the end of the dominion war) the excelsior class is probabaly the most plentiful (along with the miranda) ship, and serves as the backbone of the fleet, spotted by galaxies, steamrunners, and supposedly at least 2 sovereigns (USS enterprise and the USS sovereign, although neither are ever seen in an episode. So 90 years after their production, they are still plentiful despite more advanced ships to come out. This is because of refits. In star trek, ships aren't "upgraded," an excelsior isn't magically replaced by a galaxy. Instead they're refitted. Having upgraded models such as excelsior I, II, III, etc. would add a flavor (and diversity) to an otherwise monotoned fleet. No new graphics would be required, just an upgraded strength, and maybe movement value. Eventually, the ships would get outdated (there aren't any constitutions in ds9) and (like in real life) would be useless and deleted (decomissioned) to avoid paying maintenance. Just a thought

I have more, but i'm too lazy to type everything all out, especially considering it probabaly won't be integrated.
Anyways, sorry for the block of text, hope you keep some of those things in mind. I would offer my services and time if i knew how. But if you are desperate for help, i suppose i could learn.

In 2.x the Borg are über-powerful (a sure win if u play them) and some of the minor nations like the Bajorans are quite un-canony strong. Still this doesn't mean ur mod doesn't rock :goodjob:.
If u need any more help with modding (modeling, graphics, resarch 'n stuff - XML editing I might be able to help with but python programming is definetely not my thing) feel free to ask. Keep up the good work, I'm watching this thread with eagle-eyez:borg:.