Foreign Ministry Office

Well, this is my third term in this office...much has passed since I began my political carrer here...maybe I'll redecorate :D
As you all know by now, this office is in charge of our relations with other nations. We have, so far, met quite an interesting buch of cultures: aztecs, british, indians, russians, americans and japanese. All of them diverse in their expresions and diferent in their treatment to us.
While there has been talk of an impending invasion to aztec homeland and the armament of our troops is no big secret I do wish to make it clear: The ministry shall not condone a course of action that will lead us to a war we are not sure to win. If we attack the aztecs, or any nation for that matter, this office must have the asurance that we will not be dragged into an endless conflict and that we'll have the resourses to control the lands, if any, that we conquer
It is, also, this offices' responsabilty to protect our standing or reputation to other nations. We must have a valid reason to attack.
I am more of a builder than a warmonger, let the military concern themselfs with the army, this office is a diplomatic one, and there for it shall use the weapons diplomacy has to offer. (be it domestic or foreing).
I also welcome back Raven1er, you have been a great and loyal deputy (although your intent on taking this office from me will not go without punishment! j/k) and I look forward to working with you in this term again.
Hopefully we shall discover writting during this term (if turn chats permit) and we can really begin working (embasies and the sort).

Other matters of importance are the relations we have with other civ games in this odd and shapeshifting place we call the world wide web. I hope to have a working embassy on every game as well as in the UN by the time this term ends.

Well, having said my peace, let this second term comence!

Ehecatl Atzin

FA thread - term 1 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31346&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=1)

All Hail our great foreign affairs leader!
Hope we bring our UN representative(s) on the way soon, as the German Demogame and Apolytonia already seem to have representatives there.

Thank you Disorganizer.
Since no one has yet to submit their application let us wait until the end of today (no need in waiting longer I think) if no one sends it, then a poll shall be placed to accept you as our UN representative. We also need an ambassador to Apolytonia if you feel you cannot adecuatly suit both jobs (personally, I think you can, but it´s up to you)

Ehecatl Atzin

PS Since I cannot attend all turn chats due to my school schedule, and my deputy also has a similar problem, the FA is looking for a turn chat representative, any takers?)

I would propose the following:
if i win
1) a new apolytonian ambassador will be needed. there may be conflicts in interest otherwise (more people need to earn money too)
2) a ambassador to the community should be appointed. this position is seperate from the un representative imho
3) i will appoint an office head for our forum to maintain a un thread under the reign of the FA
4) i will appoint a deputy for the un

this way we will get 3 additional people into rpg-money and involved into the game. since these positions are respected greatly outside the forum, they will earn big reputation in the foreign lands.

you should also try to contact octavian as the second applicant. i wonder why he didnt post a speach though.

@ EA and dis- If there is anything I can help with, let me know.

Zarn, good! do you want to be the chat rep or be part of the ambasatorial (is that even a word??) group?

Dis, I agree with your ideas. CT is also an ambassador, is she also getting her check? I´ll contact Octavian, maybe he forgot..

We also need a new ambasador to the demogypcia game, preferably a german speaking person, or someone with access to a translator.

Ehecatl Atzin

Please place a link to the term 1 thread in the first post of this thread.

although not fluent, i am a german student with intermediate level speaking ability. being the ambassador would not only serve our interests, but it would help my language programme as well. therefore, i volunteer for the position. tell me if you are interested in hearing more.

I will be ambassador of either Apolytonia or the Community, if either is needed.

I would recommend zarn as the next ambassador in line for apolyonia, and neutral leader for demogyptia. Zarn will propably have to work as attachee in apolytonia until i officially resign.

Yes, I agree. The sooner we get these embassies established, the better :)

Ehecatl Atzin

just tell me where to go and who to talk to.

Polls shall be placed in the polls forum to aprove your positions as ambasadors (Dis, Zarn and Neutral Leader) Octavian X showed interest in the position also, but his pm or post here never did came thru.
@ Neutral Leader -- You may find the link to the Demogypcia game in the main forum of the Demo game.

Ehecatl Atzin

EA, I replied to your PM. I don't know what happened to it. I am still very interested in the posistion.

Also, I request the FA department post discussion on what we should do with the rivals we just met, the Iroquois? As long as we stop chats for it, we should disucss.

thanks ehcatl. ill get over there and say "guten tag" asap.

octavian:
would you also accept being deputy un representative? together with bc as second deputy representative?

EDIT: deleted because obsolete. new text below.

I am happy to announce my appointment to UN representative of the Fanatikan Empire reached quorum with overwhelming support.
Poll Reference (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33413)

I also managed to get the RPG managers to agree on 30g/tc for the rep and 20g/tc for his deputies.
20g/tc will also be payed for the head of the UN office.

So i will now look thru the approprieate candidates and appoint them or open nomination threads.

Thanks for all supporters voting for me. Disappointing the Fanatikan Populace is not an option!

We will also urgently need an ambassador to 1BC! This shall not be the UN representative or his deputies.

But maybe the head of the UN-Office could do that job 2?

I opened a nomination thread for the head of the UN-Office here and on 1BC and i proclaimed my 2 deputies for the UN-Council:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33557

I also PMed octavian and bc (my deputies) with this.

Ehecatl Atzin (Or any other ambassador like Zarn and Disorganiser), If there is anything that I can help, just let me know. ;)

I would like to recommend CivGeneral as Head of UN office and ambassador to the community.

His job would be to open and maintain the following theads:
* Embassy Thread in UN Forum on 1BC
* UN-Office thread here
He will be responsible for collecting citizen input on the issues to bring to the UN as well as collect information from the UN and bring it to the populace of Fanatika.
He will work together with the UN delegates, but will not be able to directly post in the UN council.
His postition would be a 20g/tc class position for the rpg.

As the UN Office would be an office run by the FA, please dear FA-Leader go forward with your official appointment.

Wow! three days since my last post and I'm flooded with messages!! great!! very well, of to business.
The Fanatikan Embassy in the 1BC is already opened, Saam opened it some time ago so I asked him if he wanted to be the ambassador there, It seemed only fitting since he has already began to get aquainted with them.
Every Embassador has to choose his/her deputies, so Disorganizer, Zarn, Saam and Neutral Leader, get to work! :D
I also accept CivGeneral to head the UN office here, he has proven his great skills as a statesman, in the field and in the dialogue table. His adition to the diplomatic council will greatly improve our standars! :)

Now, having said that. It is time for the:

Foreign Affairs Official Report

We have bumped into the Iroquois (ugh!) I personally despise them (their constant raizing of my cities is despicable) But anyway. The standigs are thus:

Civilization Standing toward us
Americans annoyed
Aztecs polite
British cautious
Indians cautious
Iroquois cautious
Japanese annoyed
Russians cautious

The FA finds it ironic that we are planning an attack on the aztecs, the only nation that is polite towards us :confused:

The Iroquois do demand special attention, thanks Octavian X for bringing it up, they are a war-like nation that attack without provocation. Our dealings with Hiyawatha should be made after a great deal of debate and reason.
In line with this, I have created a chart of sorts, if you will, on how we shall deal with other cultures. The variables are the techs they posess, their culture standing, their cultural relation towards us, their attitute, their war-like, peace-like tendencies and their over all history in the game. Since it is still quite early in the game we have no news of a war between these nations or with any other nation that could affect the chart, but other things are of notice, for example, both the aztecs and the iroquois are notorious for their violent attitude, we should deal with them carefully. The americans and the british are known for their demans of gold and techs.
I shall have the complete chart ready by the end of the day.
Hmmm.. I think that is all that has to be said, thanks!

Ehecatl Atzin

Oh, btw, to our recently elected ambassadors, your first job is to build an embassy (if there is none) in the forum of those games. Demogyptian forum in the case of Neutral Leader. I know it's obvious, but I just wanted to clarify it :)

Ehecatl Atzin

And i would like all embassy holders to register in the embassy registry in the main forum. Maybe a link in the FA-Thread (1st post) to that index-thread would be nice also.

Ehecatl:
did you also notify civgeneral he has to open an embassy thread at the 1BC?

Isint there already an Embassy at 1BC or is that Embassy something totaly different.

Link in question Fanatikan Embassy (http://civ3dg.1bigcommunity.com/community.asp?id=10078&page=8&board=379&thread=14934&start=1&tPage=&tThreads=&ttl=17&sT=&lts=10%2F3%2F2002+7%3A24%3A00+PM&iG=)

ah. i had problems with the foreign forum so i didnt see it!
we should ask saam if he wants to hold that position. that means you will post in that thread of course. sorry it was my mistake.

@ civ- check the name of the first poster.
thats why im heading it.

Attention all citizens!

We are in need of yet another embassador, the Bengal Republic has just recently set up an embassy in our forums and we need to do the same. Any aplicants please post here. Thanks

Ehecatl Atzin

i hereby appoint plexus as lt. ambassador to demogyptica. please tell me if that needs to be ratified otherwise he will start immediately.

lt. ambassador? whats the lt stand for? do you mean attachee?

anyways, if you mean that you need not to ratify it. an ambassador is considered an office head (embassy of xyz=office of the FA-dept). and the head of the office=ambassador can appoint deputie(s)=attachees at will.
for rpg:
ambassador=20g/tc-class
attachee=10g/tc-class

excellent.

I appoint gonzo_for_civ as my deputy for the embassy in Apolytonia.

gonzo_for_civ accepts the appointation :D

I'm ready and willing to pick up zarn's slack in the event of his abcense.

I must note that I will be gone next weds. to sun.

Im am sorry, my comp got a virus. it wouldnt boot up..but im back now!

Foreign Nations Chart

Mood Culture Link Rep Total
Aztecs +1 0 +3 - +2

Ameri -1 0 +3 - +1

Iroquoi 0 0 +3 - +2

English 0 0 +4 - +3

India +1 0 +1 - +2

Russia -1 0 +4 - +3

Japan -1 0 +1 - -3

China 0 0 +1 - +1

*Mood
furious -2
annoyed -1
cautious 0
polite +1
gracious +2

*Culture
they: in awe +2
admire +1

we: admire -1
in awe -2
------ Since our nations are both equaly impressed with each others culture, the score is 0 (zero).

*Reputation
Has raized a city -3
Has broken treaties -2
Conducted failed espionaged missions -1

---Since we have info on this right now, the score is 0 (zero).

*Culture link
This was the most difficut thing to tabulate, the manual says that a culture is more willing to like you when there is a culture link (i.e. both from Europe) So I divided the cultures in 4 groups, depending their arquitecture, and gave them scores.

-Europe- +4
Germany (us)
France
England
Greece
Rome
Russia

-American- +3
Aztecs
The States
Iroquois

-Asia- +1
Japan
China
India

-African or Middle Eastern- +2
Egypt
Babylon
Persia
Zulu

Nations that are militaristic get a -2, like the aztecs. Nations that are expansionist get a -1, like the americans.

That's about it, the way we treat other cultures will depend on their total score in the chart. Right now, for example, Russia and England have our best esteem, while Japan does not. This whole thing is oppened to critizism and sudgestions, so if you have one, please share it :)

And I agree with your deputy appointments, just make sure the rpg forum knows they recieve a check :)

Ehecatl Atzin

EDIT -- Damn....the chart looks better in paper, let me see if I can post a picture from Excel.

Ehecatl Atzin

Originally posted by Ehecatl Atzin
EDIT -- Damn....the chart looks better in paper, let me see if I can post a picture from Excel.

Ehecatl Atzin
Just use the [ code ] tags. Want me to edit it for you? Then you'll see what I mean.

Yes please!

Ehecatl Atzin

We can acquire horseback riding from the English in return for contact with the Japanese. We can get writing from the Indians for contact with the English. Does the Foreign Ministry endorse these trades or are there other trades possible?

why not just use the five groups the game divides them into?

There you go, EA. Just do your editing in Notepad and you'll see how it'll look on the page. Everything between the [ code ] tags stays lined up.

Originally posted by donsig
We can acquire horseback riding from the English in return for contact with the Japanese. We can get writing from the Indians for contact with the English. Does the Foreign Ministry endorse these trades or are there other trades possible?

Yes, the ministry agrees with these trades. See if they will also give us some money for the contacts, CT said other nations were broke, so I don't think selling techs is posible. But a few coins for the contact plus the tech should suffice. :)

Ehecatl Atzin

Originally posted by Shaitan
There you go, EA. Just do your editing in Notepad and you'll see how it'll look on the page. Everything between the [ code ] tags stays lined up.

Thanks! :goodjob: I'll do that next time :)

Ehecatl Atzin

Originally posted by neutral leader
why not just use the five groups the game divides them into?

I did think of that, but since other things also come into play when deciding how to treat other cultures I thought taking all of these things into acount was more accurate.

Ehecatl Atzin

oh, alright. i was just wondering.

Trade is asking FA to look at the potential deal for our next turn:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=536390#post536390

Our first round of trading would be with the English. We will then take it to the forums again, and determine any new techs/contacts, as well as our secondary goal to acquire contact with Babylon. (and possibly get Horseback Riding)

Originally posted by Chieftess
Trade is asking FA to look at the potential deal for our next turn:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=536390#post536390

Our first round of trading would be with the English. We will then take it to the forums again, and determine any new techs/contacts, as well as our secondary goal to acquire contact with Babylon. (and possibly get Horseback Riding)

The Science Department also urges you to look and consider this trade.

EA, sorry for not bein here, my comp had a Klev virus. i need to install mcaffe, then I'll will come back.

Just one more day! Tomorrow I'll be on!

is this place alive?

Originally posted by Raven1er
is this place alive?

Looks like it doesn't it? :D
The last turn chat was a very profitable one, at least for the Foreign Ministry, hehehe.
We have meet every civilization in the face of the planet! Ain't it grand?They are thus: America, Aztecs, Babylon, China, Egypt, England, France,Greece, India, Iroquois, Japan, Persia, Rome, Russia and Zululand.
While we do not know where many of them live, we do have a general idea based on who knows them, for example the japanese, to our west, know the Babilonians, so we may deduce they also live somewhere to the west of us. Other things can also be deduced from this, if all the civs know most of each others this early on in the game, we either live in a big continent or island dewlers have reached other civs, wich means there isn't a big sea or ocean distance between them.
We also have writing!! and that means embassies!!

I will update the chart promptly, hopefully this night after school, hopefully.
Trade must also be very exited since our tech trade posibilites have just recieved a push :)

Ehecatl Atzin

First off I offer an apology for my abscence from the forums these last couple of days, for not posting t/c instructions and for not being very much of a leader. We have just meet all civilizations in the game and the Foreign Ministry should be a busttle of activity and that has not happened, mainly beacuse of my failure to post and lead discussions, I am sorry.
Now, on to bussiness!

Foreign Nations Chart

Mood Culture Link Rep Total
*Aztecs +1 0 +3 - +2
*Ameri -1 0 +3 - +1
Babs -1 0 +2 - +1
*Iroquoi 0 0 +3 - +2
France +1 0 +4 - +5
*English 0 0 +4 - +3
*Persia -1 0 +2 - -1
India +1 0 +1 - +2
*Zulu +1 0 +2 - 0
Russia -1 0 +4 - +3
*Rome -1 0 +4 - +2
*Japan -1 0 +1 - -3
Egypt +1 0 +2 - +3
China 0 0 +1 - +1


Culture------ Since our nations are both equaly impressed with each others culture, the score is 0 (zero).

* Nations that are militaristic get a -2, like the aztecs. Nations that are expansionist get a -1, like the americans.

Now that we have discovered writing, we can build embassies, the cost for these are as follows:

Aztecs -- 37 gp
Americans -- 39 gp
England -- 55 gp
France -- 67 gp
Russia -- 77 gp
Babilonia -- 78 gp
Persia -- 98 gp
Zulu -- 80 gp
Rome --78 gp
Egypt -- 95 gp
Greece -- 108
Iroquois -- 71 gp
China -- 69 gp
Japan -- 51 gp
India -- 57 pg

If whe were to build an embassy on every culture the total cost would assend to 1060 gp! that we don't have. Our coffers have 163 gp and we aren't getting even 1 gp per turn. :(
I sudgest we build an embassy on the nations that are surrounding is, these are the aztecs, the americans and the japanese. (127 gp total) At the very least build one in aztec land to investigate aztec cities and be more adecuatly prepared for our impending attack, if for nothing else. Please discuss - Should we build embassies in these 3 nations and especially the aztecs?

Other things of note are, we are currently #16 in land area! cultures such as the romans have aprox. 8 cities (don't remember the exact number) while we have only 3, we must expand our borders and limit them ourselves before other nations start defining them for us.

Ehecatl Atzin

ARG!! Shaitan, could you please edit the chart so it looks straight and nice, please! I tried using the code thing but to no avail :(
Thanks

Ehecatl Atzin

EDIT -- never mind Shaitan, I did it all by myself!! :king: I deserve a lolly pop!

Ehecatl Atzin

EA, please vote in this council vote involving deputy governors. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34426)

FA Leader,

The people of Fanatika has called for war with the evil Aztec's in an overwhelming landslide in the most recent polls.

When will your office follow the will of the people and empower the President to begin our liberation campaign?

I'm against building embassies this early. When we decimate the Aztecs other civs will build embassies in our capital. Admittedly this means we don't get a free look into their capital cities by building the embassies ourselves but the functional part (an embassy) is the same and I for one don't want to spend 70, 80 or 90 gold peeking into a foreign city right now.

I am so glad some one agrees with me on this embassy issue. I would also wait on building any. We cant spare the gold.

Foreign Leader,

Please see my request from yesterday for you to post approval of the DoW against the Aztecs.

Thank you

Please note that I second Bill's request.

As does the vast majority of Fanatika, according to the polls.

Hmmmm...Do I officially have to declare war on the aztecs? I already support the measure, I was just waiting for the military department to say they are ready for the attack. The war can comence as soon as the next turn chat begings.

Ehecatl Atzin

Thank you, EA.

Thank you EA

To war, Fanatika! To war!

I will also say, 'Thank you, EA.'

yippie!
finementale!
Thanks EA

Your welcome but, I thought this didn't need my "official" concent, I mean, I had said it before. Why did you wait to attack until I said it again?

Ehecatl Atzin

Council vote to confirm Cyc as governor of Bohemia (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34789) has been posted.

The war with the aztecs has officially started, diplomatic relations between both nations have been oficially closed until the end of the conflict.

Ehecatl Atzin

So now that the war has started, when does the citizenry sudgest is should end? after the complete destruction of the aztecs? how many cities should we take, wich ones? what should be our peace deal? what culture is our next posible target?

Ehecatl Atzin

It will be difficult to see the time before it is upon us. Some indicators might be an extended period without advancing against Monty, being attacked by another civ, running out of targets.

I'd also like to point out that the original "War Against the Aztecs" poll specifically stipulated that we wouldn't wipe out the Aztecs in this war :)

Very true. I propose we take all visible Azteca cities to the South and Southeast and extend the campaign until we have good knowledge of the area and to what extent Monty has expanded since today.

Please vote in the confirmation poll to officially confirm Shaitan as the Deputy Governor of Bohemia. The Poll is here! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=34917)

What if we send a scout past the battle lines towards the south-east and find out exactly how much land Monty has?

EA

Im resigning as head of un delegation.
details:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=562176#post562176

A poll on Fanatika's future direction (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35065) has been posted.

What is the Foreign Ministry's position on buying territory maps from other civs?

Donsig, it would come as a case to case basis. We need to study the importance of aquiring a certain geographical knolledge and how it would serve our interests. Right now a map of aztec lands would greatly help the war effort, for example.
Right now, I´d favour the construction of embassies instead of map buying, most times, the AI builds in a circular manner, if we know where the capital city is, we can give ourselves an idea of the area they control.
Any comments are greatly apreciated.

Ehecatl Atzin

Here are the current costs for establishing embassies and buying territory maps. Note that when buying territory maps we can substitute 1gpt but this raises the total price by 2g. We can also substitute 2gpt but this raises the total price by 4g. For example we can buy Babylon's TM for 44g or 1gpt + 26g or 2gpt +8g.

We currently have 105g in the treasury and have a 12gpt surplus.


Civ Att. Cities Terr. Map Embassy

America A 10 21g 39g
Babylon A 8 44g 73g
China A 11 32g 53g
Egypt P 12 47g 83g
England C 10 33g 50g
France P 10 31g 64g
Greece A 9 34g 94g
India C 9 35g 42g
Iroquois A 7 32g 64g
Japan A 10 47g 46g
Persia A 12 38g 87g
Rome A 11 37g 66g
Russia A 9 29g 76g
Zululand P 8 29g 79g

Please take culture and military size into account for embassies, Donsig.

Culture

Disdainful : Babylon
Dismissive : Egypt, Greece, Japan, Persia, India, England,
Unimpressed : China, Russia, America, Rome, France, Zululand, Iroquois
Impressed Nations : Azteca
Admirers of our Culture : -
In Awe of our Culture : -


Military
Compared to these guys, we have a stong military!
England
France
Russia
Babylon
Persia
Zululand
Egypt
Greece
Azteca
America
Iroquois
China
Japan
India

Compared to them, we have an average military.
Rome

Originally posted by Plexus
Please take culture and military size into account for embassies, Donsig.

Not sure what you want me to do Plexus. The table I posted shows what it would cost right now to buy territory maps and establish embassies.

With our impending conquest of the Aztecs looming over the horizon, I believe that any purchase of maps from anyone would be a waste of time. I'd wager that we'll obtain a map of a good portion of the known world in tribute once we make peace with the Aztecs.

I think we'd be better served establishing embassies in neighboring civs to improve relations with them while we retool for our next conflict.

@ donsig- it was meant as a guide in which civs to improve relations with (ie. Japan[size and proximity] and Rome[military])

Good point, Plexus. I think you are trying to show importantance of purchases, while Donsig is stressing only costs. 40J has an excellent point about the maps acquired through tribute(read: iron sword at throat), as the UU for the Aztecs (Jag) covered a lot of ground in the early game. Also covering ground that I think is important to us (that I saw) were the Indians and the Iroquois.

I'm not really big on embassies, especially in this game where we seem to have a lot more important uses for our gold. If Map buying does come about, I would buy from the Indians and Iroquois. Otherwise, let's just put it off until after Monty surrenders, and then take another gander.

Cyc
Good point about the taking advantage of the expanionist civs. However, I doubt that the territory maps of these civs will be of any more benefit than those of any other civ.

As far as embassies are concerned. I agree that our gold is valuable, but if an embassy in Kyoto will sooth the Samurai beast while we deal with those pesky Americans to the east, I'd say that it was money well spent.

Of course, we're still just shooting in the dark without a better understanding of the world and where everyone is located. We must reach our objectives in the Aztec War quickly and get their map so that we can better prepare for the next chapter in the Fanatikan story.

Good point about the aztec war, FortyJ. When we finally sign a peace treaty with Monty, their maps will surely be in the negotiation table. We do not know if they have already traded maps with other nations (if they are trying to amass fortune for the war effort, maybe they have) though we have no way of knowing with whom.
I'd favour trading/buying maps with our neighbours, especially if we plan to expand in their lands (America, Japan) if we plan to attack then anytime soon knolledge of their lands would be vital (from location of cities to road networks to resourses)
While indian or iroquoi maps could be tempting since they are expansionists. But this is a double edged sword, since they do travel quite a bit we have no way of knowing if they just came from very far away or they are very near. A map of somewhere we do not know even how to get to is useless, if we trade with them we should aquire their world map, not their territory map. Since if they come from afar, we can view if they have bumped into any cultures in their way to us (and more importantly, where they are located).

Ehecatl Atzin

EA, disorganizer recently retired from his position as head of the Fanatikan Delegation to the United Nations. We need to appoint a new head soon (preferably me ;) )

Thank you.

Term 3 thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35391).