I have an idea about modifying the civics system, but I don't know if it's possible.



Power
Rule of One
Rule of Few
Rule of Many

Rulling Class
Proletariate
Wealthy
Hereditary Elite
Clergy
Junta
Intelectuals

Economy
Laissez-Faire
Protectionism
State Capitalism
Planned Economy
Green Economy

Religion
Animism (?)
Dogmatic
Tolerant
Secular
Atheist

Minorities
Slavery
Residence
Limited Rights
Full Rights
Xenophobic



Ok let's say I have the civic Protectionism in the Economic category. Could it be possible to have the following properties?

+1 happiness
IF(Tech_Banking) discovered +3 gold/city
IF(Tech_EBANK) discovered +10% culture.

I've played Rise of Mankind and other mods, but I didn't saw civics that would have properties like this. Any idea if it can be done? If yes, how?

Welcome to CFC :).

An interesting restructuring :).

No, such things are not possible in normal BtS, it would need some modifications in the gamecore (CvGameCoreDll.dll), which needs C++ knowledge :(.

Not bad. I've often thought that the current Civics system could use a bit of work. I'd be interested to see where this goes for you.

In case you are interested in my own take, I'm currently working on implementing the following overhaul of the system, which includes a Future Era choice for each category as well. (I have the effects charted too, but I haven't finished implementing or balancing them.)

GOVERNMENT
- Tribalism
- Royalty
- Theocracy
- Representation
- Technocracy

LAW
- Survivalism
- Caste System
- Vassalage
- Human Rights
- Environmentalism

ECONOMY
- Barterism
- Mercantilism
- Free Market
- Socialism
- Virtualization

MILITARY
- Civil Army
- Warrior Class
- Mercenaries
- Conscription
- Automation

IDEOLOGY
- Ritualism
- Nationalism
- Sponsorship
- Tolerance
- Monism

I also think the BTS civic system is a joke. It doesn't even make sense. Civics are duties are responsibilities for a nations people's, not overarching laws. Anyways, I'm planning on rewriting the civics for Rise of Mankind. Instead of civics, I am going to call them "Departments" or "Ministries" (based on where you live) and have a department for each area. Department of Transportation, Department of the Interior... etc. That would be much more interesting.

Anyways, the easiest way to have those tech dependencies is to require the civilization to have researched banking before it can institute it, and then give those who use the civic a +5% gold output.

"No, such things are not possible in normal BtS, it would need some modifications in the gamecore (CvGameCoreDll.dll), which needs C++ knowledge"

I know C++ a little bit so I'll try to see if I can modify this. So, in theory, it's possible :)

I thought of this civic system to work with a DynamicCiv Mod. So let's say someone made the following civic choices:

Rule of Few - Hereditary Elite - State Capitalism - Atheist - Lim. Rights =>it would result let's say The People's Oligarchy of ...

or

Rule of One - Clergy - Protectionism - Dogmatic - Residence - Holy Kingdom of ...

If you played Nationstates, you may get an idea where this is going :D

Anyways, the easiest way to have those tech dependencies is to require the civilization to have researched banking before it can institute it, and then give those who use the civic a +5% gold output

I wanted to have more civics at the beginning of the game, so there would be more ways to develop your city state/tribe. Also, I wanted to avoid civics that are no longer used later in game like barbarism, paganism and so.

Let's say the player adopts laissez-faire (economic non-interventionist policy) at the beginning of the game. He would have practically no bonus for using it (and no penalties). Still, later in game, after researching let's say "Keynesian Economics", it would gain -50% corporation maintenance and after researching Globalization it would give a further -25 corporation maintenance, but +1 unhappiness per city.

Also, another idea is to implement events that would modify civics. Could this work?

EDIT
Also, it would interesting to introduce Ideology to work like corporations or religion.

I know C++ a little bit so I'll try to see if I can modify this. So, in theory, it's possible :)

I thought of this civic system to work with a DynamicCiv Mod. So let's say someone made the following civic choices:

Rule of Few - Hereditary Elite - State Capitalism - Atheist - Lim. Rights =>it would result let's say The People's Oligarchy of ...

or

Rule of One - Clergy - Protectionism - Dogmatic - Residence - Holy Kingdom of ...

I always had the idea of dynamic civics too, similar to yours but don't know C++. I would have it so civic classes change from era to era, so the old civic choices vanish, and a new screen appears in a new era.


If you played Nationstates, you may get an idea where this is going :D
Hey, I play nationstates (http://www.nationstates.net/nation=afforess), that's where I got most of my civic ideas.


Also, another idea is to implement events that would modify civics. Could this work?

I had an idea where event totally controlled what your civics were, like Nationstates, but the problem is, I have no idea how to code that. It would be really cool if you could get it to work.


Also, it would interesting to introduce Ideology to work like corporations or religion.
Ideology would probably be best as a descriptor of your government after your civic choices, and would add it's own positive and negatives. If you choose civics that favor a large-bureaucracy government, maybe your efficiency (gold) would be slightly reduced, but employment (happiness) would be increased...

Anyways, my thoughts...

Not sure how many of you folks have played Diablo 2, but I loved the rune system they came up with.

what if you picked and chose civics from the 5 types and depending if you got certain combinations, it gave you bonuses in addition to whatever the civic gave you

for example, using the current civs
US/FS/FR gave their normal bonuses, but also would give the "USA bonus" for lack of a better term, say +2 happiness in all cities or some such

Nationhood/PS/State Property=normal bonuses+"commie" bonus of Free unit support

If you linked more civics, maybe a bigger bonus..just a thought. And I have no idea how you'd do that.

It's good to see that someone has similar ideas to mine.About the programming, I programed C++ for a while, but I couldn't say that I'm professional, but I will tinker a bit with the source and perhaps I'll get the idea how it's done (it all depends on how much free time I got). Right now I'm trying to design a new tech tree so I could implement my civics/ideology ideas.

I would have it so civic classes change from era to era, so the old civic choices vanish, and a new screen appears in a new era.

I also thought about this thing, but it would be quite hard do implement (not impossible though). I will try to implement civics that "do not age" by giving various bonuses for the player after he researches a new tech.This way a planned economy could be used in the classic era and also in the modern era.

Hey, I play nationstates, that's where I got most of my civic ideas.

I also played Nationstates, but my civics ideas are taken from another game called Victoria - An Empire Under the Sun, which is quite a good game btw :)

I had an idea where event totally controlled what your civics were, like Nationstates, but the problem is, I have no idea how to code that. It would be really cool if you could get it to work.

I was rather thinking of events like "War against Terrorism", "Communist Manifesto","Nepotism vs Bureaucracy", "Populism vs Establishment" etc. This events would give you bonuses and penalties depending on your civics, religion, etc (like in Fall From Heaven 2 where you could avoid a nasty event or receive a certain bonus if you had a certain religion).

Ideology would probably be best as a descriptor of your government after your civic choices, and would add it's own positive and negatives. If you choose civics that favor a large-bureaucracy government, maybe your efficiency (gold) would be slightly reduced, but employment (happiness) would be increased...

You're idea is quite intriguing. I think ideology should be another civics class unlocked by choosing the right combination from the other classes.

Rule of One + Junta + State Capitalism = Fascist Ideology
Rule of Few + Hereditary Elite + Planned Economy = Conservative Ideology
Rule of Many + Proletariate +Atheist = Communist

Still, right now I'm trying to create another tech tree. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible (in my opinion in a good game, gameplay comes first, content later) so I could implement my civics/ideology ideas.

Anyway, most of this things are just ideas right now, but perhaps one day, they would be found in a mod

Not sure how many of you folks have played Diablo 2, but I loved the rune system they came up with.

what if you picked and chose civics from the 5 types and depending if you got certain combinations, it gave you bonuses in addition to whatever the civic gave you

for example, using the current civs
US/FS/FR gave their normal bonuses, but also would give the "USA bonus" for lack of a better term, say +2 happiness in all cities or some such

Nationhood/PS/State Property=normal bonuses+"commie" bonus of Free unit support

If you linked more civics, maybe a bigger bonus..just a thought. And I have no idea how you'd do that.

It's an interesting idea,the bonuses for creating a "rare set" of civics could be implemented in a event.

I'm working on a civics rewrite for RoM (shh... don't tell those players yet, they don't know), and I've added or am adding two new features for Civics. First of all, I got a food threshold modifier working already, so civics can speed up or slow down city growth independently of food. (The base amount of food needed for the next population can be changed, not the food that your are producing.) This would be useful for slavery civics where you abuse your population, so in turn, it takes longer for humanity to expand. Also, if you check the SDK/Python forum, I, along with XienWolf and EmperorFool, are trying to get Civic Attitudes to work, so that if you have a specific civic, it causes other nations to hate (or like) you more. Could be useful for propaganda civics. Anyways, good luck with the tech tree. What exactly are you doing to it?

So if I understand you correctly, set an event with an iWeight of -1 once the requirements are met? That would seem fairly easy to implement, I would think.

The Civic attitude mod is a totally great idea. So, nations with slavery will hate the ones with emancipation. Awesome idea :D

I'm trying to make it less religious based and more into ideologies. My idea is that ideologies are more important than religion in industrial and later eras. I'm also planning a mod, but first I'm trying to get accustomed to Civ programing :)

So if I understand you correctly, set an event with an iWeight of -1 once the requirements are met? That would seem fairly easy to implement, I would think.

Right now, I'm just trying to learn Civ's programing mechanics. I know C++, but I'm not very good with Python and XML. I'll start reading the tutorials and other docs and after that I think I'll start a little mod.

Right now, I'm just trying to learn Civ's programing mechanics. I know C++, but I'm not very good with Python and XML. I'll start reading the tutorials and other docs and after that I think I'll start a little mod.

Don't worry, XML is very easy. Python...well...err... it's python.

DarkCiv has something where leaders also have a hated civic. I like that mod.

DarkCiv has something where leaders also have a hated civic. I like that mod.

But the sources commenting for darkciv is terrible. I thought about steal...er..using the genocide option from that mod, but could never make heads or tails of 1/2 the code...

But the sources commenting for darkciv is terrible. I thought about steal...er..using the genocide option from that mod, but could never make heads or tails of 1/2 the code...

Try using WinMerge or Notepad++ to compare it to the sources for a basic DLL. I bet that would at least get you looking in the right direction.

Try using WinMerge or Notepad++ to compare it to the sources for a basic DLL. I bet that would at least get you looking in the right direction.

Have you seen the code? The changes are pretty comprehensive, and most is only commented by //a1021

Try using WinMerge or Notepad++ to compare it to the sources for a basic DLL. I bet that would at least get you looking in the right direction.

Please look at the code before giving me advice that I have already tried. Winmerge turns completely yellow, because almost all the code is changed...

Have you seen the code? The changes are pretty comprehensive, and most is only commented by //a1021

At least someone else knows what I'm talking about... I gave up after a 1/2 hour of attempted merging...

Please look at the code before giving me advice that I have already tried. Winmerge turns completely yellow, because almost all the code is changed...



At least someone else knows what I'm talking about... I gave up after a 1/2 hour of attempted merging...

I have seen the code. Sorry for trying to be helpful.

I have seen the code. Sorry for trying to be helpful.

No good deed goes unpunished, no act of charity, un-resented.

Anyways, i understand, but seriously, that code is really really bad...

No good deed goes unpunished, no act of charity, un-resented.

Anyways, i understand, but seriously, that code is really really bad...

I will make sure to remember that when I get AI Land Transport Usage working, I'll make sure to uncomment all of my changes and place comments in blocks of original code :D

I will make sure to remember that when I get AI Land Transport Usage working, I'll make sure to uncomment all of my changes and place comments in blocks of original code :D

...:mad:

Anyways, we are wayyy off topic...

Improved Civics idea

I.Type of Government

Autocratic
One guy with absolute power
Ex:Nazi Germany, USSR (under Stalin)

Totalitarian
One party,corporation, group of interests that controls the state
Ex:USSR (Lenin's period)

Oligarchic
Several parties, corporations or groups that fight for power.
Ex: Dune, where the noble Houses Atreides and Harkonnen fight for the spice :)

Democratic
Rule of the Majority (not necessary with universal suffrage)
Ex:USA in the 19th Century (Right to vote was given accordingly the wealth)

Minarchic
Semi-anarchic state, where the only role of the government is too assure the protection of the individual.

II.Society

Proletarian (rule of the proletariat)
Plutocratic (rule of the wealthy)
Theocratic (rule of the clergy)
Militaristic (rule of a military junta)
Meritocratic (rule of intellectuals and specialists)
Feudal (rule of an hereditary elite)

III.Economy

Hands-On Private Oriented

A system in which large privately-owned entities control or direct the economy in their favor, or in which private shareholders invest in and own enterprises that are operated by the state or by employee cooperatives.

Hands-On State Oriented

Economic systems in which the state directs or controls economic activity through economic planning.

Hands-On Communal Oriented

Economic systems in which a collective, such as a commune or cooperative directs or plans large-scale economic activity.

Hands-Off Private Oriented

Economic systems in which the economy is controlled privately in a usually decentralized fashion and operated based on market principles.

Hands-Off State Oriented

Economic systems in which the state runs, owns and/or manages its own resources and enterprises in a free-market economy with minimal regulation and without government planning.

Hands-Off Communal Oriented

Economic systems that are characterized by decentralized cooperative or collective ownership that operate in market economies or decentralized, collectively-planned economies.

For examples, see Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_systems)

IV.Religion

Dogmatic (One Religion the rule them All :) )
Tolerant (There is a state religion, the other religions are not persecuted)
Pluralism (There is a state religion, but the state is very tolerant to other religions)
Secular (No state religion)
Atheism (Religion is banned)

V.Minorities

Slavery (Minorities are enslaved)
Residence (Minorities are allowed to live on the state's territory, yet they have no right to get involved on how the state is run)
Assimilation (Resistance is futile -> Minorities are reeducated)
Full Rights (self-explanatory)
Xenophobia (self-explanatory)

VI.National Value
Expansion
Pacifism
Decentralization
etc

This civics are just an sketch. The bonuses and penalties that come with the civics will be added later. Feel free to comment,improve and add :)

I always thought adding a 'Cultural Gender Relations' civic would make things kind of interesting:

i.e.

CULTURAL GENDER RELATIONS
-- Male Dominant (Combat, Production related bonuses)
-- Female Dominant (Espionage, Growth related bonuses)
-- Gender Equality (No change either way)

What would be kind of fun would be to introduce a way for this to affect Diplomacy:
-- Same Gender Relations between two different cultures may introduce some added degree of competitiveness. (i.e. Male Dominants would fear or respect each other's might, Female Dominants likewise would be 'catty' with eachother.)
-- Differing Gender Relations may introduce some false sense of security as both parties would see themselves as having a natural advantage over the other. Likewise, it could also result in Chauvanism if either party perceived itself as being greatly stronger.
-- Either Dominance vs. Gender Equality would have less pronounced effects than either of the two situations described above.

Clearly, not all three options would be available to any given Civ. That is, if you select a Civ with a female leader, your only choices would be 'Female Dominant' or 'Gender Equality'.

I think this additional source of tensions could make for some wonderfully fun diplomatic taunts and exchanges.

Worthwhile?

I personaly like the normal civ system. I think it reflects nicely on the world.
Althou I would add Atheism.

VI.National Value
Expansion
Pacifism
Decentralization
etc

This civics are just an sketch. The bonuses and penalties that come with the civics will be added later. Feel free to comment,improve and add :)
I'd find it better if that one just got sorted down to 'values'. And instead we could make simple things like:

Might
Wealth
Knowledge
Religion
etc.

And give bonuses from that. I find it important that the civics need to be somehow opposed, since you can be pacifist and decentralized at the same time.

For the society column I would also add something to describe a society without any ruling caste.

CULTURAL GENDER RELATIONS
-- Male Dominant (Combat, Production related bonuses)
-- Female Dominant (Espionage, Growth related bonuses)
-- Gender Equality (No change either way)
I would rid out the production from the male dominant society and espionage from the female dominant. First because in a male dominant society the females often stay at home, thus do not add to the national production. The second since I do not see how that makes any sense. I would rather add the production to the 'Gender Equality' civic, else it seems fairly redundant.